Pod Insights My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark MFM Minisode 490 About this episode This week’s hometowns include a Dorothea Puente connection and a high school scammer.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Speaker 00 This is exactly right.
0:06 Speaker 01 In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way. When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, the rubber hits the road. And what the feds uncover is a complex scheme of staged wrecks, financial fraud, and a pair of conspiring lovers behind it. This is a story about fake accidents that led to real consequences. Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
0:42 Georgia Hardstark? Between work, school, family obligations, and the endless Halloween hustle, it often feels like there's never a good time to slow down.
0:49 Karen Kilgariff? No matter how busy life gets, even a small break can help us recharge, reset, and enjoy the moment.
0:54 Georgia Hardstark? Breaks don't have to be the 15 minutes in your car while you wait for your kid to get out of school, or the two minutes while your lullpumpkin is tying his shoes.
1:01 Karen Kilgariff? Kit Kat gives people permission to take the break they've earned and make it a better break.
1:05 Georgia Hardstark? While the world tells us to keep going, Kit Kat reminds us that the best time for a break is now.
1:11 Karen Kilgariff? Break now. Have a Kit Kat.
1:12 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
1:31 Karen Kilgariff? Hello and welcome.
1:33 Georgia Hardstark? To my favorite murder.
1:34 Karen Kilgariff? That's Georgia Hardstark.
1:35 Georgia Hardstark? That's Karen Kilgariff. This is the minisode.
1:40 Georgia Hardstark? It's the minisode.
1:41 Karen Kilgariff? It's the minisode.
1:42 Georgia Hardstark? I know. It feels like a little more relaxed when we do the minisode because we don't have to think too much.
1:46 Karen Kilgariff? That's right. We're just reading.
1:47 Georgia Hardstark? We don't have to be charming. Everyone does it for us in the letters.
1:50 Karen Kilgariff? That's right. This is us floating in the... I'm literally making a list of what to get at the grocery store later.
1:56 Georgia Hardstark? This is like summer school for my favorite murder.
1:59 Karen Kilgariff? What a rude way to approach this gift of an opportunity we have.
2:04 Georgia Hardstark? I meant that all positively.
2:06 Karen Kilgariff? No, I didn't mean that to you. No, no, I meant to me where I'm just like, what am I doing? What is the intro to this fucking show?
2:14 Georgia Hardstark? We've only been doing it for 10 years. Almost 11, 10 and a half now.
2:19 Karen Kilgariff? 10 and a half. We're over the 10-year mark.
2:21 Georgia Hardstark? Jesus Christ.
2:22 Karen Kilgariff? We have to stop looking back. We have to start looking forward.
2:24 Georgia Hardstark? To the next 10 and a half years. Why don't you go first?
2:28 Karen Kilgariff? Why don't I? In full gratitude, I read you an email with the subject line, "Serial Killer Dinner Party."
2:35 Georgia Hardstark? There we go. Now we're back.
2:36 Karen Kilgariff? Back on track. "I recently came into a treasure of a story from my aunt. Let's call her E. Aunt E was a longtime dental assistant of a small dental practice in the Sacramento area in the 80s and 90s."
2:49 Georgia Hardstark? Dun, dun, dun.
2:50 Karen Kilgariff? Represent. "One of their frequent patients was none other than the Dorothea Puente."
2:56 Georgia Hardstark? Uh-uh.
2:57 Karen Kilgariff? Yep. It says "yep" to exclamation points. Imagine how thrilled I was to have my aunt regale me a Murderino with this thriller. So if you want to go listen to our Dorothea Puente episode, which of course I covered because we lived two doors down from her when I lived in Sacramento.
3:16 Georgia Hardstark? That's right.
3:17 Karen Kilgariff? In the very late 80s, early 90s.
3:19 Georgia Hardstark? What episode number is that? That was so long ago.
3:21 Karen Kilgariff? That was episode 37.
3:23 Georgia Hardstark? Jesus.
3:23 Karen Kilgariff? That was entitled "Luminal Space."
3:25 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, look for the rewind of that, guys.
3:27 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. Okay, so it goes back into this email saying, "After frequent," and when I say "it," I mean myself, "after frequent appointments, they became friendly. My aunt is a lovely, warm lady who can shout it up with anyone. She even attended a dinner party at Dorothea's house."
3:43 Georgia Hardstark? No.
3:44 Karen Kilgariff? Yep, that house. She said Dorothea was an excellent cook. The dinner table was set and Dorothea's renters were all there except for one. My aunt mentioned the empty plate and she said Dorothea stood up and opened the door just off the dining room to reveal a man passed out on the bed and said something to the effect of him sleeping it off. My aunt said his head was hanging off the bed, but she assumed he passed out because she knew Dorothea's renters were men often struggling with alcohol addiction." Which is like the ultimate manipulation.
4:15 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
4:16 Karen Kilgariff? You have people who, it's indefensible because the worst is always assumed.
4:20 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
4:20 Karen Kilgariff? And the best of her intentions is always assumed.
4:23 Georgia Hardstark? Right. They're the best victims because nobody takes them seriously.
4:26 Karen Kilgariff? Right. Then it says, "Was he just passed out? Aunt E would wonder about this later." Fast forward to 1988, Dorothea had an appointment and noticed my aunt wasn't her normal cheerful self. My aunt, my dad, and the rest of their seven siblings had just returned from burying their father in Oklahoma, and she was still grieving. When she explained this, she said Dorothea grabbed her forearm with both hands and looked closely in her eyes and said, "Everyone has to die sometime."
4:52 Georgia Hardstark? Chill. So chill.
4:54 Karen Kilgariff? It says, "Holy shit," right? Right?
4:57 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
4:58 Karen Kilgariff? I mean... Also, it's the grabbing.
5:00 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
5:00 Karen Kilgariff? The one-two punch of-
5:01 Georgia Hardstark? Intense.
5:03 Karen Kilgariff? "Once the truth of Dorothea's deeds were revealed to my aunt, she actually got subpoenaed to give evidence to the DA. Aunt E., who has the gift of gab, definitely filled them in on what she knew."
5:14 Georgia Hardstark? Bet.
5:15 Karen Kilgariff? "How could you not-
5:16 Georgia Hardstark? No.
5:16 Karen Kilgariff? -go over every minute detail?"
5:18 Georgia Hardstark? It's like gossiping on the stand. You're not gonna believe what she thought and said to me.
5:21 Karen Kilgariff? She's like, "I was there. I was part of this whole nightmare."
5:25 Georgia Hardstark? She grabbed my arm.
5:26 Karen Kilgariff? She grabbed my arm.
5:27 Georgia Hardstark? With both her hands.
5:28 Karen Kilgariff? Ugh. And then it just says, "Stay sexy and be leery of little old bespectacled ladies, Heidi."
5:35 Georgia Hardstark? You know what's so weird to me is that you can be a straight-up serial killer and still be up to date on your dental cleanings.
5:43 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
5:44 Georgia Hardstark? Like, what happens in your mind that you're like, "Oh, gotta go to the dentist"?
5:50 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, because they're gonna take care of themselves. Their teeth, their comfort, their thing. But in their brain, the broken part is-
5:57 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
5:57 Karen Kilgariff? -that they care about anybody else.
5:59 Georgia Hardstark? It's just so weird to me that, like, you can have such horrible, you know, actions and thoughts and still go do a normal thing, like go to the dentist.
6:06 Karen Kilgariff? And still have clean, fresh breath.
6:08 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
6:08 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
6:09 Georgia Hardstark? Like, I struggle going to the dentist when I need-
6:12 Karen Kilgariff? I mean.
6:14 Georgia Hardstark? Okay. "Cold case solved after 20-plus years. Dear Georgia and Karen," all caps, "my time has come, finally. You guys are rock stars and thank you for everything you've done for me over the years. I started listening in 2018 and I can't begin to tell you how excited I am to finally have a solid story to share with you." Okay, so here it goes. "In 1998, four teenagers in Medina, Ohio, about 40 miles from where I live, found two suitcases off the I-77. Inside were human remains that had been dismembered. The victim's hands, feet, and head were missing, which made identification impossible at the time." Remember, it was like, well, now we'll never know who it is-
6:54 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
6:54 Georgia Hardstark? -back then? The case went cold for over two decades. Your favorite.
6:59 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
7:00 Georgia Hardstark? "Fast forward to 2023. With new DNA technology, the victim was finally identified as Lawrence A. Drotliff. After that identification, investigators uncovered something even more disturbing. His son, Larry Drotliff, now 81, had been fraudulently collecting his father's social security benefits for years, telling people his father had simply moved away." Do you know this one?
7:24 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, it sounds familiar, but it sounds like the beginning. Kids finding like severed human remains in suitcases. There's a couple that start like this.
7:32 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Eventually Larry confessed that he came home from work one day and found his father deceased in their home. He then dismembered the body and disposed of it along I-77 in the suitcases. Then he went to the dentist. No, I'm just kidding.
7:47 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
7:49 Georgia Hardstark? Sorry, I had to do it.
7:52 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, that's the vibe, though.
7:53 Georgia Hardstark? It's the fucking vibe.
7:54 Karen Kilgariff? This is your to-do list.
7:56 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, let me just stop on the way.
7:58 Karen Kilgariff? It's like, the idea that it's like, you're trying to explain this to any authorities, going, "And then I dismembered my father?"
8:06 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, he was already dead, so I thought, "No, there's nothing I can do now."
8:11 Karen Kilgariff? That only sounds normal to a complete psychopath.
8:14 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. Here's where it gets absolutely insane. My stepdad told me he watched a documentary about this case a few years ago. He's not usually into true crime, but was interested in the story and the close location. My stepdad is also in recovery, woo-hoo, and he said a few years back, he met a man at a meeting and started giving him rides. He would pick him up from his apartment where he lived only about five minutes away from our home. Fast forward this week, a mutual acquaintance sent over an article about this solved cold case. My stepdad read it and thought about that documentary he had watched years ago. He was amazed to hear that the case was reopened and solved. Then he realized the man he had been giving rides to and spending time with was none other than Larry Drottleff.
8:58 Georgia Hardstark? My stepdad said he always had a weird feeling about him, but couldn't explain why. I mean, I have that about everybody.
9:05 Karen Kilgariff? But I, that is that thing where it's like when they say you look at somebody and they have like dead eyes, or there's just absolutely no kind of chemical connection to them as a person?
9:14 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
9:15 Karen Kilgariff? And it makes you like get all freaked out, but on an animal level?
9:18 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. I'm just kidding, I don't feel that about anyone. I'm friendly to everyone for some fucking reason. Anyway, stay sexy and always trust your gut, Sylvia.
9:26 Karen Kilgariff? Sylvia. Great name, by the way.
9:29 Georgia Hardstark? Such a good name.
9:30 Karen Kilgariff? Also, just like to have interacted in a very mundane way, like a dental way with a person.
9:36 Georgia Hardstark? And a meaningful way, because when you're in recovery with someone and in Alcoholics Anonymous, like you have a bond there that is beyond just acquaintances.
9:48 Karen Kilgariff? Now I want to know what the true details of the beginning of that story are.
9:53 Georgia Hardstark? Four teenagers in 1998 finding a suitcase. That's some fucking horror movie.
9:59 Karen Kilgariff? On the highway.
10:00 Georgia Hardstark? And there's something so, I don't know why it's like so much, this is why I like books placed in the 90s or before so much better. They didn't have cell phones. They had no way to contact anyone. They had to run to the fucking, you know, gas station and call the police. They had no like.
10:15 Karen Kilgariff? Connection.
10:15 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, no way to like reach out. It was just them and a fucking suitcase.
10:21 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
10:21 Georgia Hardstark? And that's where my book begins.
10:23 Karen Kilgariff? And that's where your film kicks off. Well, solved cold case.
10:28 Georgia Hardstark? You love it.
10:29 Karen Kilgariff? We love those.
10:30 Georgia Hardstark? Check one off the list of nine billion and we're getting close.
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11:20 Karen Kilgariff? your first purchase of a website or domain. Goodbye. Let's change the tone with a trash dog and trash dad story.
11:29 Georgia Hardstark? Yay.
11:29 Karen Kilgariff? It says, "Hi, I'm FM crew and fellow murderinos. You recently asked for garbage dad or garbage dog stories, and I have a story with both. A couple of years ago, my husband and I decided to take our two young boys to Dallas to visit the great Wolf Lodge. We were going for almost a week and needed someone to watch our two-year-old, 80-pound golden retriever, Nellie. My parents were between homes at the time, living in a fifth-wheel trailer, and then in brackets, it says, a towable RV."
11:55 Georgia Hardstark? Oh.
11:56 Karen Kilgariff? It's fine. We're fine. And it says, "After moving out of a 4,000-square-foot home, and I thought maybe they'd really like to stay in our house to enjoy more room, AC, a washer and dryer, etc., the only stipulation would be that they had to take care of the dog. They agreed and saved us a fortune in boarding fees, or so we thought."
12:15 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, Jesus.
12:16 Karen Kilgariff? Yes. We love an "or so we thought" story. "The day we left, my sweet mom decided to take the dog for a walk. I had instructed her to only use a leash if they went walking around the neighborhood and not on the dirt paths across the street, as our dog was used to running free on those paths. However, my nervous mom didn't want Nellie to get lost, so she put the leash on her and proceeded to walk her along the dirt paths."
12:39 Georgia Hardstark? She did the responsible thing. I'd do the same thing if it was someone else's dog.
12:42 Karen Kilgariff? Right.
12:43 Georgia Hardstark? You know?
12:44 Karen Kilgariff? Sure.
12:45 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
12:46 Karen Kilgariff? "Just as they were finishing, Nellie spotted wildlife and took off after it without regard to the lady holding the leash. My mom was yanked hard and fell to the ground. When she tried to get up, she found she couldn't, as her hip was broken."
12:58 Georgia Hardstark? Fucking...
12:59 Karen Kilgariff? Which unfortunately, she knew from experience.
13:01 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, no.
13:02 Karen Kilgariff? "She called out for help and tried to drag herself, but she had left her phone at home, charging, and no one could see her from the road as she fell behind a patch of sage."
13:12 Georgia Hardstark? It's like 1998 all over again.
13:13 Karen Kilgariff? That's right. "Of course, the garbage dog thought my mom was on the ground to play and get kisses, so she decided to slobber all over mom while she cried out for help. Meanwhile, two hours later, we were at the airport when my ring doorbell notification went off. I opened the app and watched as a man informed my dad that his wife had fallen across the street and thinks her hip is broken. Our wonderful neighbor heard something from his backyard, decided to investigate, and found my mom lying in the dirt, unable to walk. He got my dad, and they called an ambulance. I repeatedly called to find out if she was okay, but I got no answer, as both parents had left their phones at my house."
13:48 Georgia Hardstark? God.
13:50 Karen Kilgariff? I finally asked another neighbor to track down our hero neighbor to find out what was going on. It turns out that my dad had watched TV through the whole thing, even though my mom was gone much longer than she said she would be. My mom was convinced that he wouldn't have come looking for her until morning, and based on his past record, she's probably right.
14:07 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, Jesus.
14:08 Karen Kilgariff? She ended up getting her third hip replacement, third hip replacement surgery, and the first for that hip, and Nellie ended up being boarded until we got home. My lucky sister also had to house guests for the next few months while my mom recovered, as she didn't want to stay with us and chance my garbage dog injuring her further. Probably a pretty good call. Stay sexy and think twice before letting your garbage dad and osteoporosis-riddled mom dog sit. And here she is.
14:36 Georgia Hardstark? There's a photo of the, oh, bad girl.
14:39 Karen Kilgariff? She didn't mean it.
14:40 Georgia Hardstark? Bad girl, but very good girl.
14:41 Karen Kilgariff? It was a squirrel.
14:42 Georgia Hardstark? Look at that face.
14:43 Karen Kilgariff? What's she supposed to do if a squirrel comes?
14:45 Georgia Hardstark? And the perfect perm.
14:47 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
14:48 Georgia Hardstark? Gorgeous.
14:49 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, that's it. That dog only wants what's best for all of us.
14:52 Georgia Hardstark? Remember when my dad almost killed Elvis when we were on tour?
14:55 Karen Kilgariff? No.
14:56 Georgia Hardstark? We were in, like, Australia, and I had had a bag of all his pills and treats, you know, in the pill pockets. It was his heart medication, he had one a day. My dad left the bag out, and so Elvis, of course, chewed through it.
15:09 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
15:10 Georgia Hardstark? Because he was a monster, and my dad was like, it's a cat, he doesn't do that. And I'm like, yes, he does. Ate all of his fucking heart pills.
15:16 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
15:17 Georgia Hardstark? And Vince was like, if you kill Georgia's cat, she's never going to speak to you again.
15:20 Karen Kilgariff? He was fine. And somehow he powered through it.
15:25 Georgia Hardstark? He got, he was a dump truck. He was like, he was like.
15:28 Karen Kilgariff? It bought him three more years.
15:29 Georgia Hardstark? Exactly.
15:30 Karen Kilgariff? He's Frank. Frank is Elvis, and Elvis is Frank.
15:32 Georgia Hardstark? He was fine. Buying furniture is a lot of pressure. It has to look good, feel good, and hold up to everyday life.
15:38 Karen Kilgariff? Take it from me, a bad couch can ruin your life.
15:40 Georgia Hardstark? That's why Article focuses on stylish, high-quality pieces designed to last.
15:45 Karen Kilgariff? Article makes it effortless to create a stylish, long-lasting home at an unbeatable price.
15:50 Georgia Hardstark? They take great care in curating their collection, focusing on pieces that stand the test of time. There's no filler. Every item is chosen for its craftsmanship, design, and lasting value.
15:59 Karen Kilgariff? And with Article's 30-day satisfaction guarantee, you can shop with confidence, knowing that if you're not completely in love with your new furniture, you can easily return it. Man, there was nothing I loved more than when I was broke and I could still buy furniture that I needed at Article. It wasn't cheap-looking. It's like I was investing in these pieces that were comparatively inexpensive, and I was like finishing rooms. I was like getting the kitchen table that was like bringing the whole thing together. And it was such an incredible thing because I never got to do that before. I love that about Article.
16:32 Georgia Hardstark? Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.
16:36 Karen Kilgariff? To claim, visit article.com/murder and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout.
16:41 Georgia Hardstark? That's article.com/murder for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.
16:46 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye.
16:47 Georgia Hardstark? The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+.
16:52 Karen Kilgariff? Sonny's life is pretty great, until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his with one exception: his mom.
17:00 Georgia Hardstark? To everyone else, she's the same Ellen they've known their whole lives, but for Sonny, he knows something is off.
17:05 Karen Kilgariff? As his relationship with his mother begins to crack in unsettling ways, he's forced to question what happens when the perfect mom becomes a perfect stranger.
17:13 Georgia Hardstark? Is this all in his head, or is there really an imposter in his house?
17:16 Karen Kilgariff? Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nevola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.
17:24 Georgia Hardstark? Watch the Hulu original series Phony.
17:26 Karen Kilgariff? Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. Goodbye.
17:32 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, this is called "I Wish I Went to This High School." Hi, Coven, let's do this.
17:37 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
17:38 Georgia Hardstark? I had been with my boyfriend for an unsettlingly long time before he thought to share with me two of the best stories I've ever heard, both of which occurred during the same period, the late 90s, at his high school in Oregon. The first is about a guy named Deandre, who transferred from California and immediately became a model student and extremely popular. Everyone thought Deandre was cool. Not only was he a basketball star at his old school in Beverly Hills, but he drove a flashy red Camaro, and word quickly spread that his aunt was Diana Ross.
18:08 Karen Kilgariff? That's always the rumor, especially if you go to a tiny white town.
18:12 Georgia Hardstark? Right, right.
18:13 Karen Kilgariff? And there's some, someone of color shows up there. And that's, that's the stuff that happens.
18:17 Georgia Hardstark? Totally. I figured he didn't mind it. I drove a Camaro and my aunt's Diana Ross?
18:22 Karen Kilgariff? You show up and you're just like, that's right. You should absolutely kiss my ass.
18:25 Georgia Hardstark? You're not denying it.
18:26 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
18:26 Georgia Hardstark? He got straight A's, rose to the top of his class, and was genuinely nice and friendly to everyone, so much so that he was elected to student government. That winter, he was chosen to sing a prize solo at the Christmas concert. Then, two days later, choir practice was interrupted by the police bursting in to arrest him. Turns out, Deandre wasn't 17 after all.
18:49 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, these are my favorite.
18:50 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, I know.
18:51 Karen Kilgariff? These are my favorite.
18:53 Georgia Hardstark? But a 31-year-old convicted felon on the run.
18:56 Karen Kilgariff? Oh my, he's not just doing it for fun.
18:59 Georgia Hardstark? He made like a fucking Drew Barrymore movie out of his fucking life.
19:02 Karen Kilgariff? He's reverse 21 Jump Street-ing it, where he's like, I'm not the cops coming into your high school, I'm the robbers coming into your high school.
19:08 Georgia Hardstark? That's right. He actually had attended this high school 15 years earlier and remembered it as the happiest time of his life, hence his decision to hide out there for a while. Okay, here's my next fucking book and how it starts. Like, how sweet is that?
19:21 Karen Kilgariff? But also, please write a book about any high schooler that is the best time of their life is high school.
19:27 Georgia Hardstark? Truly.
19:28 Karen Kilgariff? Jesus, get it all down while you can.
19:30 Georgia Hardstark? Crazily enough, he even had one or two of the same teachers, none of whom seemed to recognize him.
19:35 Karen Kilgariff? Fucking hell.
19:37 Georgia Hardstark? The whole scenario is one of my absolute favorite movie tropes, so the fact that this actually happened in real life is a dream come true.
19:44 Karen Kilgariff? That has to be made into a movie.
19:46 Georgia Hardstark? Yes. And this is from Sarah, and she put fucking links. This is all, this all checks out. She's like, proof. And then she writes, and then it gets even better.
19:54 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
19:55 Georgia Hardstark? At the same time, all caps, at the same school, another popular student, this one's student body president, was living out his own cinematic fantasy. Tom was charming, smart, an Eagle Scout, a track star, and homecoming king. Again, there's links. It's, this is, sounds like bullshit, it's not. He also happened to be a serial armed robber terrorizing local businesses throughout his senior year.
20:19 Karen Kilgariff? Mm-hmm.
20:20 Georgia Hardstark? When they get started that early, it's almost impressive, like those cheerleaders who were robbing a bank.
20:24 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
20:24 Georgia Hardstark? It's almost like, I was just fucking ditching school to smoke cigarettes by that tree.
20:28 Karen Kilgariff? I always felt like I had low, like, iron poor blood, you know what I mean? Like, I always felt so tired, and so, you know what I mean?
20:35 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
20:35 Karen Kilgariff? I think I need peanut butter or something, like, for energy.
20:39 Georgia Hardstark? Not robbing, planning and robbing a fucking bank.
20:41 Karen Kilgariff? I can't finish, like, a book for a book report.
20:45 Georgia Hardstark? I can't take change out of my mom's purse without her hearing me upstairs. I'm not fucking running into a bank.
20:50 Karen Kilgariff? I can't sneak in or out of my house successfully, ever. How do I rob this bank? And they're just killing it all over town.
20:56 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, there's so many things we could have done when we were younger.
20:59 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
21:00 Georgia Hardstark? Look at us now. This is the alternative. When he was finally caught, his accomplice was arrested, but Tom managed to escape to Mexico. Side, as a teenager.
21:11 Karen Kilgariff? Wait, this is Oregon?
21:13 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
21:13 Karen Kilgariff? This, these aren't my, remember the two guys from Grant High School?
21:18 Speaker 00 Karen, I just looked it up, I think that this is your guy.
21:21 Georgia Hardstark? What?
21:21 Karen Kilgariff? This is, this is my guy. Remember the story of the two people in high school together that started, they were like, the kings of the high school, but they started robbing businesses?
21:29 Georgia Hardstark? What episode is this, Molly? It's so fascinating.
21:32 Speaker 00 This is from the live show.
21:33 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, remember?
21:34 Speaker 00 Karen covered it in Oregon.
21:35 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, in Portland.
21:36 Georgia Hardstark? Amazing.
21:36 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
21:37 Georgia Hardstark? All right.
21:37 Karen Kilgariff? I kept talking about the high school.
21:39 Georgia Hardstark? Yes, yes, yes.
21:39 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
21:40 Georgia Hardstark? Now, now I remember.
21:41 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah. But only, only us and the Portland murderinos know, because we haven't done it yet.
21:45 Georgia Hardstark? Sarah clearly wasn't there.
21:46 Karen Kilgariff? Yes.
21:47 Georgia Hardstark? When he was finally caught, accomplice, side note, my boyfriend's sister tells me this arrest actually happened on prom night. You can't make this shit up.
21:56 Georgia Hardstark? Tom successfully head out in Mexico for months, even going so far as to party with 37 of his high school classmates, who traveled there for a graduation trip.
22:05 Karen Kilgariff? Yep.
22:05 Georgia Hardstark? None of them tipped off the police. Man, there's no fucking rats.
22:09 Karen Kilgariff? That's right.
22:09 Georgia Hardstark? I remember this one. You had photos of them.
22:11 Karen Kilgariff? All the pieces, like so many of these stories are similar baseline, but then those details come up and then you're like, oh, wait a second.
22:17 Georgia Hardstark? I'll just always remember the time that you were halfway through a story about Circleville onstage live when I realized I had already told that story on drunk history and it just hadn't come out yet. Because I completely, I blacked it out, literally.
22:30 Karen Kilgariff? Right. Yeah. Because you were on drunk history.
22:33 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
22:33 Karen Kilgariff? It's a good one.
22:34 Georgia Hardstark? Anyways, none of them tipped off the police. Tom did eventually turn himself in months later after seeing himself on America's Most Wanted. I remember this. It still baffles me that it took my boyfriend over two years to share what has to be the coolest and most important thing ever to happen to him in his life.
22:50 Georgia Hardstark? But knowing his proximity to these absolutely delicious tales made me love him even more than I already did. I wouldn't say it's the only reason we're now engaged, but it definitely didn't hurt. Stay sexy and don't trust the popular guy, Sarah. Something in the water there.
23:05 Karen Kilgariff? Getting away with it, yeah. Someone opened a portal to hell down in like the basement and just a bunch of weird energy came out that summer.
23:12 Georgia Hardstark? Eugene is just going crazy, Eugene Oregon.
23:16 Karen Kilgariff? Well, amazing. And look forward to that episode in the future. We can like future market that one.
23:23 Georgia Hardstark? The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus.
23:28 Karen Kilgariff? Sonny's life is pretty great until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his, with one exception, his mom.
23:35 Georgia Hardstark? To everyone else, she's the same Ellen they've known their whole lives. But for Sonny, he knows something is off.
23:41 Karen Kilgariff? As his relationship with his mother begins to crack in unsettling ways, he's forced to question what happens when the perfect mom becomes a perfect stranger.
23:49 Georgia Hardstark? Is this all in his head or is there really an imposter in his house?
23:52 Karen Kilgariff? Starring five time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Devola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.
24:00 Georgia Hardstark? Watch the Hulu original series Phony.
24:02 Karen Kilgariff? Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.
24:06 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
24:08 Karen Kilgariff? Sometimes being a little salty is completely justified.
24:11 Georgia Hardstark? Pair your salty side with something sweet with the new salted caramel flavor from Kachava.
24:16 Karen Kilgariff? Kachava is a whole body shake with plant-based protein, fiber, greens, and other nutrients to help fill nutritional gaps.
24:23 Georgia Hardstark? Just two scoops provide complete nutrition your body craves with protein, fiber, greens, and so much more.
24:29 Karen Kilgariff? Their new salty caramel flavor combines sweet caramel with a little salt, so you get that salty-sweet balance along with the nutrition Kachava is known for.
24:37 Georgia Hardstark? When the day demands your salty side, fuel it with plant-based protein that actually tastes delicious.
24:42 Karen Kilgariff? I really do love Kachava, and I really do think it does taste delicious for getting you through the morning, filling in the gap if you just need some protein and you need some vitamins. It's such a nice little treat.
24:53 Georgia Hardstark? It's such an easy way to get everything you need, and it tastes good, too, which is just huge bonus.
24:58 Karen Kilgariff? So embrace your salty side.
24:59 Georgia Hardstark? Go to kachava.com and use code MFM for 15% off your first order.
25:03 Karen Kilgariff? That's Kachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A dot com, code MFM.
25:08 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
25:10 Karen Kilgariff? This is a follow-up to mini-sode 482, my mom's legendary radio contest win. In honor of our beloved Banana Boys, hello, guys, gals, and non-binary pals of MFM, I'm writing in as a direct follow-up to the story in mini-sode 482 about the kid who won the trip to Disney from the TV contest.
25:29 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
25:30 Karen Kilgariff? Do you remember that?
25:31 Georgia Hardstark? Kind of.
25:32 Karen Kilgariff? It reminded me that the early 2000s were truly the Wild West of local radio contests. Very true. So of course, I need to tell you how my mom, Dawn, entered one and became a local legend.
25:43 Georgia Hardstark? Dawn is everyone's mom's name.
25:45 Karen Kilgariff? Dawn.
25:46 Georgia Hardstark? Dawn.
25:46 Karen Kilgariff? She had a long cigarette.
25:47 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
25:48 Karen Kilgariff? In the summer of 2000, our local radio station announced a Britney Spears listen contest at our local mall. The prize, front row seats to the Oops! I Did It Again Tour.
25:58 Georgia Hardstark? Take me there.
26:00 Karen Kilgariff? My sister and I were fully possessed by the spirit of Britney. My dad, Dan, who had a heart of gold but is also a lifelong prankster, entered the contest every single day to get us a shot at winning tickets.
26:12 Georgia Hardstark? Aww.
26:13 Karen Kilgariff? The catch? He entered using my mom's name. When the radio station called her to say that she had been chosen to compete, she was horrified.
26:21 Georgia Hardstark? No.
26:22 Karen Kilgariff? To make matters worse, my dad then told us kids, all caps, told us kids, so we would get excited and peer pressure my mom to do it.
26:31 Georgia Hardstark? So sweet. I can see why you married him, but no, I don't want to do karaoke in the mall.
26:38 Karen Kilgariff? In public.
26:39 Georgia Hardstark? In public.
26:39 Karen Kilgariff? This is a prank to a level that is dastardly.
26:42 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
26:42 Karen Kilgariff? And insane and hilarious, but also just think of it.
26:46 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
26:47 Karen Kilgariff? That's like, um, someone put my name in one time when we were at, uh.
26:51 Georgia Hardstark? Magic Mike.
26:52 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, yeah. Oh, my God.
26:53 Georgia Hardstark? Is that what you were gonna say?
26:54 Karen Kilgariff? No, I was gonna do the one where I was in New York and it was Maurice Crisis, which is where all the Broadway singers go to sing songs around a real piano.
27:01 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
27:01 Karen Kilgariff? And all of a sudden they're like, Karen, get up here. And I was like, I got so mad and I just walked out where I'm just like, don't shame me in front of these talented people.
27:09 Georgia Hardstark? It's diabolical.
27:10 Karen Kilgariff? Okay. So, so.
27:12 Georgia Hardstark? Also, you're a great singer. If I were you, I'd have gone the fuck up there and sang.
27:16 Karen Kilgariff? I appreciate it. Thank you. It's, it's all Annie. It's straight out my nose, Annie. And those people are like opera stars and we just don't want, that's not how we have fun.
27:24 Georgia Hardstark? Got it.
27:24 Karen Kilgariff? Uh, okay. So, my mom has massive social anxiety.
27:29 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, no. Okay. I don't know about this dad.
27:32 Karen Kilgariff? This is tough.
27:33 Georgia Hardstark? For Dawn.
27:34 Karen Kilgariff? He, yeah. Uh, Dan knew, right?
27:37 Georgia Hardstark? Dan and Dawn?
27:38 Karen Kilgariff? Dan and Dawn.
27:38 Georgia Hardstark? Cute.
27:39 Karen Kilgariff? Dan knew that Dawn had social anxiety, but my dad knew she would be weak to seeing our tiny hopeful faces. She decided to say fuck it to the anxiety and yes, to trying to make her kids' dreams come true.
27:50 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God.
27:51 Karen Kilgariff? She thrifted and aggressively hot glued a music video accurate schoolgirl outfit. She recorded episodes of TRL on a VHS tape and watched the baby one more time video on a loop, breaking down the choreography like she was preparing for the Olympics. She committed to the bit. The day of the contest arrives at our classic sprawling 90s mall. The stage was, I kid you not, built directly on top of the mall fountain.
28:19 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, I remember that.
28:20 Karen Kilgariff? The competition was stiff. There were dozens of contestants, including several drag queens.
28:25 Georgia Hardstark? Oh.
28:26 Karen Kilgariff? So genius. As a sheltered kid, I mean, those drag queens were like, we are going to win this hands down.
28:30 Georgia Hardstark? Yes.
28:31 Karen Kilgariff? This is what we do. As a sheltered kid, I remember whispering, look at all those other dads competing for their daughters.
28:38 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, so sweet. When it was Dawn's turn, she stepped onto that fountain stage in her pleated skirt and pigtails. She said she blacked out from nerves, but I remember the audience losing their minds. She nailed every hair flip and snap and was crowned winner of the Britney Spears lip sync battle.
28:56 Georgia Hardstark? Dawn for the win.
28:57 Karen Kilgariff? Dawn for the win. A month later, we sat in the literal front row watching Britney.
29:03 Georgia Hardstark? Oh my god.
29:03 Karen Kilgariff? My badass mom, who had just conquered her greatest fear atop a mall fountain, danced the entire night with us. Shout out to all the moms who will embarrass the shit out of themselves to make their kids' dreams come true. And a special shout out to my OG murderino mom, who used to tell me terrifying true stories about her childhood, growing up on Eight Mile in Detroit, just to make sure I'd lock the doors and fuck politeness.
29:26 Georgia Hardstark? Damn.
29:27 Karen Kilgariff? Stay sexy and lip sync for your life, Katie.
29:30 Georgia Hardstark? Oh my god, what a great story.
29:33 Karen Kilgariff? Dawn, this one's for you. You're number one.
29:37 Georgia Hardstark? Did we tell people to send us when they won contests? Because I think they should.
29:41 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, especially if your contest got, if the, if the battle took place at the mall.
29:46 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
29:47 Karen Kilgariff? And you won it, or you lost it.
29:48 Georgia Hardstark? You lost it, for sure.
29:49 Karen Kilgariff? You shamed yourself and your family deeply, right in front of Mrs. Fields Cookies?
29:53 Georgia Hardstark? I won a modeling contest at the mall once.
29:55 Karen Kilgariff? Georgia, what?
29:56 Georgia Hardstark? I know, I don't want to talk about it.
29:57 Karen Kilgariff? Year 10 reveal.
29:58 Georgia Hardstark? I don't want to talk about it.
30:00 Karen Kilgariff? You, can you just say those words again and look me in the face?
30:03 Georgia Hardstark? No.
30:03 Karen Kilgariff? Georgia won?
30:04 Georgia Hardstark? I won.
30:05 Karen Kilgariff? She won the modeling contest.
30:07 Georgia Hardstark? I was obsessed with Kate Moss, so I like knew the walk. And I had gotten a barbers on where I trained to be a model and look like one, or whatever.
30:14 Karen Kilgariff? Thank god you didn't get trafficked. I mean, Jesus.
30:18 Georgia Hardstark? I should have. There was like a guy with a fucking hook waiting to like pull me out.
30:23 Karen Kilgariff? What'd you get for winning?
30:25 Georgia Hardstark? I got, I went to this like scout camp thing and... I don't want to talk about it.
30:30 Karen Kilgariff? Yes, you do, and we're going to do a whole special episode on the fan cult. Everybody sign up.
30:35 Georgia Hardstark? There's a reason it's been 10 years, and I haven't told you that.
30:37 Karen Kilgariff? This is-
30:38 Georgia Hardstark? I have a photo.
30:39 Karen Kilgariff? Incredible. We better get the pictures.
30:41 Georgia Hardstark? In 10 years, you can get the photo.
30:42 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, okay. Like a Ponzi scheme.
30:46 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, this one's serious. It's the beginning of Pride Month, so let's pay tribute to the amazing life of Kay LaHusson, America's first lesbian photojournalist.
30:55 Karen Kilgariff? Nice.
30:56 Georgia Hardstark? "Hi, MFM gang. Back in nursing school, I had my first clinical experience at an assisted living home in Pennsylvania. During my clinical, I met a resident named Kay LaHusson, who described herself as 'a gay lady who takes pictures.'" This is one of the, like, old ladies at the home.
31:12 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
31:13 Georgia Hardstark? "As a newly-out 20-year-old, I was intrigued."
31:16 Karen Kilgariff? Oh.
31:16 Georgia Hardstark? I can imagine the people you meet there, just like, ready to tell you their story.
31:20 Karen Kilgariff? But I mean, how rare that would be, at least for, I'm thinking, that generation.
31:24 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
31:24 Karen Kilgariff? It's a very new thing for, I think, a person to be like, "Hey."
31:27 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
31:28 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah.
31:29 Georgia Hardstark? "I learned via Google, as she was incredibly humble, that Kay was the first openly lesbian American photojournalist. While living in Boston in the early '60s, she met Barbara Giddings, and they soon fell in love. During this time, they both worked for a lesbian magazine called The Ladder, L-A-D-D-E-R. Barbara served as the editor, and Kay was the art director. In 1963, the art on the cover of the magazine was, as Kay described it, quote, 'pretty bland, little cats, insipid human figures,' end quote."
31:58 Karen Kilgariff? Little cats?
31:59 Georgia Hardstark? Little cats for a lesbian magazine.
32:01 Karen Kilgariff? And then, of course, ladders.
32:02 Georgia Hardstark? Implied lesbianism. Kay, a lifelong photographer, wanted to show actual people, lesbians, on the cover instead. The first photo was of two women taken from the back. Kay then fought to show actual faces on the cover. She stated, quote, "If you go around as if you don't dare show your face, it sends forth a terrible message," end quote. From the mid-'60s on, Kay photographed all sorts of women for the cover of the magazine. She went on to photograph Barbara Giddings and others picketing at Independence Hall until the late '60s. In 1970, she was part of the founding of the Gay Activists Alliance. In 1972, she worked closely with the GAA to push for removal of homosexuality from
32:44 Georgia Hardstark? the DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Mental Disorders, we all know.
32:50 Georgia Hardstark? They have a chapter about us in it. Kay and Barbara worked together for 46 years before Barbara passed in 2007. Kay, living until 2021. Up until her death, she worked as an activist, publishing multiple books on her photographs and fighting for the rights of LGBTQ plus people. Kay and Barbara's ashes are interned inside a stone bench in the Congressional Cemetery. The bench is engraved with the phrase, "Gay is good." And there's a photo, if you want to see it. It's a sweet little tribute with all the pride flags. "I knew Kay for a very short amount of time, but the work that she did for my community is nothing short of spectacular. I remember that her room at the assisted living facility was full of photographs. I hope she knew just how much she had done for so many.
33:35 Georgia Hardstark? I know that this is not the typical topic that you cover, but I wanted to share a little about this woman who had a profound impact on me. She was, at the time, the only older adult queer person I had ever met." Chills. "Up until then, I hadn't been able to picture growing old with a woman that I loved. It makes my heart so happy to know that she got her love story, just like we all deserve. Stay sexy and remember that gay is good." Kay, they, them. Yes, we have the same name. Yes, I think it's rad.
34:05 Karen Kilgariff? I mean, that, it's like a movie.
34:07 Georgia Hardstark? I know.
34:08 Karen Kilgariff? Where it's like, oh, you just work at a, at an old folks home, and then there's one lady that you hit it off with and is so interesting.
34:14 Georgia Hardstark? Legendary.
34:14 Karen Kilgariff? And she's a legend.
34:15 Georgia Hardstark? Here's a photo of her.
34:16 Karen Kilgariff? That's, oh, look at her.
34:19 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, and those are her photographs? Look at the latter. A lesbian review, it says.
34:23 Karen Kilgariff? Yes. And sorry, the latter started like in the 50s? Is that what you were saying?
34:27 Georgia Hardstark? It was around, it seems like, it says that the magazine started in 1956.
34:31 Karen Kilgariff? 56.
34:31 Georgia Hardstark? God, I want to find those at an estate sale.
34:33 Karen Kilgariff? Oh, my God.
34:34 Georgia Hardstark? Right?
34:35 Karen Kilgariff? It's so good.
34:36 Georgia Hardstark? It's so good.
34:38 Karen Kilgariff? Well, that's a really nice email to end for Pride Month.
34:41 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
34:42 Karen Kilgariff? Perfect.
34:42 Georgia Hardstark? Send us your stories, whatever they may be.
34:45 Karen Kilgariff? Yeah, who did, who have you discovered in your life that surprised you?
34:48 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
34:49 Karen Kilgariff? That was actually turned out to be a legend?
34:51 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
34:52 Karen Kilgariff? Uh, well, everybody stay sexy.
34:54 Georgia Hardstark? And don't get murdered.
34:55 Karen Kilgariff? Goodbye.
34:58 Speaker 04 Elvis, do you want a cookie?
35:06 Karen Kilgariff? This has been an Exactly Right Production.
35:08 Georgia Hardstark? Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.
35:12 Karen Kilgariff? Our editor is Aristotle Lasevedo.
35:14 Georgia Hardstark? This episode was mixed by Liana Scolacci.
35:16 Karen Kilgariff? Email your hometowns to [email protected] .
35:19 Georgia Hardstark? Follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder.
35:21 Karen Kilgariff? Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
35:26 Georgia Hardstark? And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix.
35:28 Karen Kilgariff? And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the remind me buttons. That's the best way you can support our show.
35:34 Georgia Hardstark? Goodbye.
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Previous 534 - Think About the Simulation Next Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 99: Shin Kick Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated