New Orleans & Vegas Attacks: What We Know so Far | EYES ON PODCAST

Today we're joined by Sandboxx News editor and Youtuber Alex Hollings, we talked about the terror attack in NOLA and the Tesla car bomb in front of Trump International in Vegas. We also get to the bottom of what the Chinese 6th gen fighter is all about. Find Alex Hollings here: ⬇️ https://www.sandboxx.us/author/alexhollings/ https://x.com/alexhollings52?lang=en https://www.youtube.com/@UCNPMEL4N_kfEC-w2A6CuPGg https://www.tiktok.com/@alexhollings52?lang=en Support the show on Patreon:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Find Andy Milburn here: ⬇️ https://twitter.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fandymilburn8 https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmilburn2023 https://amilburn.substack.com/ https://www.amazon.com/When-Tempest-Gathers-Mogadishu-Operations https://bsky.app/profile/andy-milburn.bsky.social https://open.substack.com/pub/amilburn/p/journal-of-a-plague-year?utm_source=app-post-stats-page&r=emo6q&utm_medium=ios Find Mick Mulroy here: ⬇️ https://fogbow.com/ https://www.loboinstitute.org/ https://x.com/MickMulroy?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-patrick-mulroy-31198b52/ https://bsky.app/profile/mickmulroy.bsky.social Find Jason Lyons here: ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-lyons-666873316?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app https://bsky.app/profile/bgsilverback73.bsky.social Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:00Speaker 02

  Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Eyes On. Happy New Year. Today, we have the man, the myth, the legend, Alex Hollings from Sandbox News and Air Power YouTube, the YouTube show Air Power. And of course, Jason Lyons, former Marine, former CIA officer. Andy Milburn is, I think, traveling. He went to the motherland this, during the holidays. And Mick Mulroy is just, you know, doing Mick Mulroy stuff. I don't want to, we can't talk about it. He made a sign in the A's, so. The big news today that happened, New Year's Day, was the, I guess, terror attack in New Orleans. Fifteen dead, at least thirty injured.

• 1:44Speaker 02

  Army veteran, I'm gonna fuck up this name, Shamsu Dinjabar. Initially thought to have, like, people working with him and stuff like that, but that was eventually ruled out. ISIS-inspired, converted to Islam last year. And before the attack, he posted a message on Facebook, I guess, announcing he was gonna... I didn't see the message or anything like that. You know, so, it was pretty hectic yesterday in terms of, like, when the news was breaking and stuff like that. You know, just theories flying everywhere. Initially, they were like, oh, it's a guy from, not a US citizen. It turns out, it was a US citizen.

• 2:27Speaker 02

  And all intents and purposes, it seemed like the guy was like a normal dude up until about a year ago. So what are you guys looking at in terms of that? I just wanted to get people up to speed, even though I know people are, you know, following this.

• 2:42Speaker 03

  I gotta be honest, I, I think that this is a big indicator and maybe an important lesson that we in the United States have not been doing a good job of learning. And that's that radicalization can affect anybody. Uh, narrative management and information operations, especially the type that are aimed at radicalizing people. Uh, aren't aimed only at stupid people, you know? Uh, to some extent, information operations are the same as marketing. And there's a reason why advertising is a multi-billion dollar industry. It's because it works. Uh, and information operations work in a lot of the same ways. And this is a strong indicator of that. This guy was in the US Army for over a decade, you know, he deployed to Afghanistan.

• 3:25Speaker 03

  Uh, we're not talking about your traditional, the person that you would think a group would go after to radicalize, right? But we know he was going through some difficult financial times. We know he went through a very difficult divorce. We all go through really tough times. We all end up at sort of our lowest points at various times throughout our life. And at those times, we're most vulnerable to these sorts of efforts. Even if someone's not aiming them directly at us, it's easier than ever to find yourself in that pipeline through different kinds of content. So I, I suppose for me, you know, with a background in studying perception warfare and information operations.

• 4:03Speaker 03

  The big takeaway for me here is that, uh, radicalization is not something that only affects, you know, uh, groups that are traditionally, you know, it's not something that only affects low IQ people. It's not something that only affects people who are really gullible. It can affect anyone. And if you are in a position to be affected by this sort of content, uh, It's really, really difficult to intervene, right? Uh, because you need to identify what's going on and you need to, you need to gain the trust of that person who a big part of radicalization is isolation. You know, the content aims to isolate you and then point you at, you know, a, a, a common enemy, right?

• 4:46Speaker 03

  And I guess just the biggest takeaway for me is that if an army veteran with 10 years in the uniform, if, you know, a guy who has a lot of things going for him, but is going through a tough time can in the span of a year, uh, find himself in this position. I think that that should be a reminder to all of us that none of us are above information operations and we need to be think, thinking about and thoughtful about the content that we consume.

• 5:13Speaker 04

  I agree, I agree. And I think on a, to add to that, on a, on a personal level, um,

• 5:21Speaker 04

  people knew him, people know him. Um, so someone may have seen, I'm not going to say someone definitely did, but someone may have seen a change in him. You know, uh, I think I saw, I read this morning that people had said that his religious viewed had, views had taken a huge turn and he was becoming more and more extreme. Um, so we in this country like to, uh, talk about the 22 a day, which we should talk about, you know, the veteran suicide, things like that. But that also goes towards radicalization too. Uh, someone may not be talking about ending their own life, but they may be talking about, you know, they see something like this occur on TV and make a comment like, uh, well, that's what they get. Or, or in favor of that person. Those are things to take notice of.

• 6:06Speaker 04

  You don't necessarily have to go running to the police, but those are things that you need to, uh, take notice of so that you can interview, however that is. Um, I just watched the documentary on PBS, I believe it is about the, uh, shooter up in Maine. I believe it was that, uh, he, he was former, um, National Guard guy or was it a, uh, National Guard guy and he killed, I think it was eight people, some of which were, uh, deaf, um, the, from the deaf community. And, uh, the things leading up to that, everybody, people, his unit called the sheriff's department on this guy during a, um, active duty deployment because, uh, up to West Point because he had gotten into a fight, he was saying all these weird things, but everybody from his son,

• 6:50Speaker 04

  all the way up to his chain of command saw it, nobody did anything about it, so, um. Along with being aware of information operations, people who are not targeted but are close to those people should be aware of the signs, you know, and be ready to intervene.

• 7:07Speaker 03

  That's such a good point that I really do see a direct correlation between veteran suicide and veteran radicalization because I think that they're probably, they're two different symptoms of the same problem, right? Veterans who find themselves in a position that's, that feels untenable and they want to take action because one thing that I think service members by and large have in common is a bias toward action, right? And that affects suicide rates the same way that it can affect attacks like this domestic terrorism, right? You find yourself sort of at your lowest moment and you want to do something that can fix it. And for some, that's violence toward themselves. For others, it's violence

• 7:49Speaker 03

  towards others. But I think you raised such a good point that these are sort of offshoots of that same mental health issue that we're not doing a great job of engaging with.

• 8:00Speaker 04

  No, absolutely. And yeah, I don't know if you're gonna talk about, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, Alex, but even those whose lives look like they're picture perfect, you know, I'm sure we're gonna touch on the Las Vegas incident with the cyber truck. You know, this guy, 19 years SF, was a master sergeant, I believe, you know, I, we don't know what his personal life was like, whether there was any kind of strife. I believe he was married. I think his wife, they said his wife had not heard from him in several days or whatever, but something was going on there. So us in, in social media land, we're like, you know, oh, man, this guy's, you know, he's got it all, master sergeant,

• 8:43Speaker 04

  SF, blah, blah, all this other stuff, but we don't know what.

• 8:46Speaker 03

  He's the guy we look up to.

• 8:47Speaker 04

  Exactly. He's the guy we look up to. And this goes through, I'm saying guys, but gals as well. You know, we look up to these people because. Much like social media is what you know does is we see the good. You know, people are never, almost never going to post the bad. So they're always posting the good. Hey, you know, um, just paid, you know, just bought my third house, whatever it is. Um, but we don't see what's below the surface, whereas there are other people who do, whether it's a spouse, boyfriend or girlfriend, um, a child, uh, even people I used to do security for, uh, I set up a security, uh, plan for my, uh, one, a church I used to go to. And one of the things when we talked to the congregation, we said was it's usually going to be the person you see every Sunday,

• 9:32Speaker 04

  who has that one bad Saturday that decides to do something the next day. So that's when you take notice of those things, you know, hey, Jim, how are you today? And he's not talking, or you heard he's got, he's having a divorce and he comes in. We had a gentleman who, uh, he ended up being removed, but he would come into the church and with his wife and children, and then all of a sudden he was coming into the church and sitting completely separate from them. And come to find out it was a domestic abuse thing. So you just don't know, you know? And that's the kind of things that people need to be looking at before we get to the point.

• 10:07Speaker 05

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• 10:36Speaker 04

  Like that we did, you know, yesterday. So.

• 10:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. These special forces guys are, and you guys know better than anyone, guys, girls, humans, they're people just like us who have the same sorts of vulnerabilities that we do. Despite their immense amount of training and the incredible things that they've done, they're still people at the end of the day. And, you know, the, the toughest people you know, uh, have usually overcome some pretty difficult things. That's what made them the toughest people you. Know and those things can pile up on you and they can sneak back up on you. I think everybody here can probably attest to when you go through something really difficult in life, when you lose people. Uh, you can be fine for 10 years and then it can come back, you know, at, at the worst time while other things are sort of piling up on you.

• 11:24Speaker 03

  And, uh, you know, there doesn't necessarily have to be a catalyst. There doesn't have to be a divorce or, uh, you know, or, you know, your wife leaving you or something there. Uh, sometimes these things can just add up in such a way that you feel overwhelmed. And if there isn't uh, in a, an effective way for you to channel that energy, you're gonna find one. And, uh, the ones that you find, especially online and, you know, in this digital environment, more often than not, aren't necessarily good ways to channel that energy, you know? Uh, radicalization is a science. Uh, Dr. Ajit Mann wrote a book called, uh, Narrative Warfare. Uh, for a think tank called Narrative Strategies. She was working with SoCom a few years ago. That's how we met. Uh, and in her book, she talks about

• 12:09Speaker 03

  the radicalization process and how you won't, you wouldn't think of groups like ISIS or Al Qaeda as people who use psychology degrees to achieve their objectives. But they do, uh, the very same way any other group might, uh, and there really is a pretty tried and true process that you can put people through in order to radicalize them. That's not to say it'll work on everybody all the time. But if you put it out there often enough and high enough volume, you're gonna catch people in that net, you know?

• 12:39Speaker 04

  Yeah. And these people, you know, I, I think the average, not the average person, but most people, when they think of radicalization, they think of some guy sitting or sitting somewhere waiting for, you know, or, or they have a spreadsheet of people that they're gonna cold call to, you know, to radicalize. No, most of the time, they're, people come to them. They start searching the dark web. They go to forums and asking, hey, how does someone hook up with X? And then that's when, you know, keyword searches pop up or somebody will. Prefer them and then boom. Hey, I heard you might be looking for a friend. Of course, they're not going to come right out and be like, hey, I heard you're looking for ISIS. It's

• 13:23Speaker 04

  you know, brother, I understand what you're going through. Sister, my, my boyfriend cheated on me or, or, you know, I heard you came out and your, your community didn't accept you. Blah, blah. And then, and, and these things almost never happen overnight. Most of the time it's, what was it, a year for this guy? Most of these things happen, just like most intelligence operations, happen over a period of weeks, months and years, you know, uh, so. Yeah, uh, we don't know with the, the, uh, Las Vegas guy, but obviously something happened there.

• 13:56Speaker 03

  You nailed it because it starts with something that we all do a dozen times a day, which is like seeing a meme that makes you feel heard, that engages with your sense of identity. And, and the community that you come by that meme from, whether it's a subreddit, whether it's a Discord server, you know, whether it's an email chain for some older folks. The community that that meme arrives to your doorstep on and you feel heard and you feel as though your grievances are being acknowledged. You're getting respect, uh, or at least your grievances are, uh, it makes you engage with that community that much more. And that's, and those incremental movements, it's the same way, uh, you know, like in true crime, they talk about how serial killers give themselves allowances.

• 14:38Speaker 03

  You know, like if, if you wanted to start, you know, eating people, well, you're not going to start by eating people, right? You're going to start by following that woman on the bus, right? And then you tell yourself, it's not that big a deal, you know, I left when it was over, but then the next time you don't, right? And then you get progressively further along until you're willing to do things that otherwise might seem out of character. And this process works the same way, you know?

• 15:03Speaker 04

  Sorry, G, we kinda.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  No, no, no, that was incredible. Yeah, I mean, um, the thing about like, I don't know, the thing that really stuck out to me yesterday was when this happened. You know, you know, early in the morning, it's just the wildness that goes on in Twitter, like as you're reading. Cause like you want, you want information right away, right? Like anybody else, um, and it's just. It's just people can't just relax and like get facts first before whether whether reporting about them or speculating about them and like even speculating about them like if you're gonna speculate. Say you're this is speculation, right? Like I'm I right? Yeah. And it's just, I was like scratching my head be like.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  It's like we're being attacked by a hundred cells from ISIS yesterday. All over the country. It's never gonna stop. Like this is like a coordinated attack that they've been planning for years. And meanwhile, I mean, and at the same time. The FBI needs to do a better job in terms of messaging and stuff like that. Cause they're fucking horrible. Like let's be let's like the press conferences yesterday were a joke.

• 16:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:12Speaker 02

  Um, so they I mean, they add to it a little bit, but again, like you put it into that Twitter, social media where the nature spins out of control, kind of.

• 16:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, not parallels in severity, but we saw the same thing with the drones over New Jersey, you know? We had really poor communication on a government agencies. So people just filled in the gaps. With whatever seemed sexiest to them and the social media economy, the digital economy is attention based, not credibility based. So. The more engaging your take, the further the reach is gonna be. And usually the more divorced from reality your take is the more engaging it is. So. You know, Winston Churchill said that, you know, a lie will get around the world twice before the truth gets its pants on. It is, you know, a lie will get around the world. Three dozen times now before the truth will get its pants on. And then people don't want the truth because the truth.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  A lot of times doesn't align with like a, you know, a logical narrative and we want logical narratives. Uh, you know, culturally, it's how we tell stories, but real life. A lot of times doesn't sort of like. Engage in that same sort of cause and effect chain, you know what I mean? And so what people will see something that seems as though narratively it's not necessarily logical. Well, if lots of people are seeing drones, narratively, they must all be controlled by the same one person or one body. And if people are seeing drones, well, then maybe they're not drones at all. It must be this thing that's even more, you know, crazy where in reality, a lot of what people saw

• 17:44Speaker 03

  were just hobby drones or even law enforcement drones. A lot of them were just airplanes and helicopters. But that narrative is not as engaging. And so because of that, people not only will ignore it, they'll attack it, you know, and you'll see the same when we're talking about, you know, a terror attack in New Orleans, we're going to see people who prefer the much more sexy conspiracy narrative over the possibility that there was a really troubled guy who, you know, decided to do something crazy, very likely was inspired by others who did things that were crazy. But the conspiracy may not extend much further than a half a dozen people, you know?

• 18:26Speaker 03

  But that's, that's not the story that people on Twitter want, you know?

• 18:31Jack Murphy?

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• 19:11Speaker 04

  And one of the, sorry, Dee. No, no. One of the, the foolish, but at the same time smart thing that people do, trolls on the internet do is they inject.

• 19:24Speaker 04

  Their narrative that has nothing to do with it. Like I was just watching a uh story on the news and they had a

• 19:32Speaker 04

  Republican pundit and a Democratic pundit and they were talking about this and one of them um started talking about illegal immigration and the host is like, well, we need to stop right there. You realize that this guy, both of them are US citizens. Yeah, but yeah, but nothing has one has nothing to do with the other. But people will inject that stuff because it riles up the base and it keeps them narrative that they want going, going. Um, and again, that's not what, you know, we're trying to talk about here, but it's still, it's one of the reasons why.

• 20:08Speaker 03

  White haired influencers. That's what lawmakers increasingly are. There's they they want to get as many clicks and shares and likes that, you know, they want to raise money for the next election. They're not that worried about conveying reality, you know, it's not necessarily the there's, there's little incentive for a politician to err on the side of reality.

• 20:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:30Speaker 03

  You know.

• 20:32Speaker 02

  Which is kind of wild to me because right, like their job first and foremost is like public safety or should be anyway. And like they should kind of be the people that are the sobering kind of adults in the room.

• 20:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  They're not. And it's like, you know, pretty disheartening in terms of like being an American.

• 20:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, not to bring it back to the New Jersey drones again, but it comes to mind because you see these lawmakers saying, well, they're not appearing on radar. They must be advanced technology. This guy doesn't know that how radar works. The radar systems that we use by and large wouldn't detect low flying quadcopters. That's not advanced technology. That's how radar works.

• 21:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:12Speaker 03

  But they don't know how radar works. So they're going to go make a statement and every conspiracy theorist on Reddit is going to, you know, err on the side of this mayor who now thinks he's an expert in the electromagnetic spectrum. Uh, instead of like people who actually know how radar works. You know, it's a, I don't know, I would say that we're in the most complicated information space age, you know, the era of the most complicated information space in human history, you know. We have no trouble looking back on the printing press and acknowledging how culturally changing the printing press was. Uh, the internet is that, you know, X times exponents, you know, it's,

• 21:52Speaker 03

  uh, it's given everyone a voice and increasingly, you know, with social media and stuff. It's not even, you don't even need to have a built in audience to reach a lot of people with your message. It just needs to be engaging enough and that can work for better or worse, you know?

• 22:07Speaker 04

  Absolutely, absolutely.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, a little bit about the Vegas guy, uh, Matt Livelyberg, I'm probably pronouncing that wrong.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  He worked, both bombers worked at the same base or bases or maybe two of them. Uh, they're trying to connect that on social media and like it is an interesting coincidence or, you know, circumstance like, I mean, but the fact is, um, Shamu, uh, like,

• 22:37Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, I read his name wrong, Sha, Shum, Shum, but did retire like 10 years ago, right? And this guy was still, so if they did work together in the same base, which means like there's probably thousands of, or tens of thousands of people on the same base.

• 22:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a pretty big installation.

• 22:56Speaker 02

  So like, what are the chances like 10 years ago, like, let's get together and do this on January 1st in 2025, right? Like, so let's again, everybody who's on Twitter, like, where's a conspiracy? There's gotta be a conspiracy because I've seen so many people and they get to go back to that. We're like, they're here, they're here. I saw that like so from like, from like agency, former agency people. Where it's like, shouldn't you know a little bit better? Like, I know you're trying to be like a Twitter person.

• 23:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  And like a influencer now.

• 23:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:25Speaker 02

  But maybe pump the brakes a little bit.

• 23:28Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 23:28Speaker 03

  That almost worries me more is those people who know the game and are using it effectively.

• 23:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:34Speaker 03

  Uh, that's even more dangerous than the people who are stumbling upon playing the game by just being idiots on the internet. Uh, the most dangerous ones are the ones who know exactly what they're doing and they're not worried about second order or third order effects. They're worried about their mortgage and I respect that. I mean, I, I pay my bills through views.

• 23:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:54Speaker 03

  In very much the same way, you know, uh, so I understand the balance that you need to sort of maintain where you're trying to get people to click on your content and you're competing against sensationalism and hyperbole. Uh, so I understand, you know, the trap that you can fall into, but if you know the game, if you've worked encountering the game and then you're using it to your own, uh, you know, for your own financial gain. I don't know. That's a, I don't like it.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 24:22Speaker 04

  It is. It really is. I, I sent you something this morning.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:26Speaker 04

  Dee about, and you know me, I don't, I don't, I don't like to name names and, and stuff, but this influencer, um, former special operations forces, I will just say that, um, posted something saying, basically, we told you and named all these different guests, um, that they'd had, we told you, um, fifty to sixty thousand Americans are gonna die, uh, starting now, which, and that's the thing that annoys me is they're taking what could be a bit of truth, that could happen, but over a hundred, two hundred year span, who knows, you know, or it could happen in this year, we don't know. And they, and they, uh, couple it with lies, like saying this is congressionally funded, you know, these attacks and things.

• 25:10Speaker 04

  That kind of stuff like if I was ever right in front of these people, the only thing I would say is show me the proof. I want to show the things that you're claiming, I want you to show me right here and right now that you have proof that these things, not because your guest told you, because most of these guests have said. What's that?

• 25:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, don't tell me a guy said a guy said.

• 25:29Speaker 04

  Exactly. I have it on good authority or I'm in touch with, you know, like, I'm gonna say it. That guy who posted the videos about the drones in Jersey and was saying, I think they're, you know, sniffing for nuclear material and, and a friend of mine had his hand on a rogue nuke and all this other stuff. Is the same guy who finally admitted in his third video, he's gonna be running for office in 2026. And then, then the truth will come out. Well, if it's so important, buddy, why are you not telling us now?

• 25:58Speaker 03

  Right.

• 25:58Speaker 04

  If we really need to know.

• 26:00Speaker 03

  Cause you think a loose nuke would be like a kind of a big fucking deal?

• 26:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:04Speaker 03

  Right? And it's happened before. There's precedent we could look to for how they would handle it and it wouldn't be by flying a bunch of drones.

• 26:12Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 26:13Speaker 03

  You know, like, but again, you're, but again, we're speaking to that and the gaps in the official narrative creates opportunity for people like that to, to inject their own truth. And again, because we want a logical narrative, we want a hero's journey story like we see at the movies. We will prefer that one because it fills in all the, all the gaps very well. Whereas the true story, you know, like the Las Vegas shooter a few years ago, who shot a lot of people, I forgot out of which casino. But, but you know, we still don't know his motive and honestly, we may never because his motive may have been stupid.

• 26:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:50Speaker 03

  It might've just been a dumb thing, but we, we have a lot of trouble grasping that idea. Even though we do dumb things all the time, right? You know? I do something stupid every day and I like to consider myself a fairly bright guy. Now imagine someone with mental health issues who's been, you know, down on their luck, who's, you know, at the worst point in their life, you know? And maybe has a predisposition for violence or something along those lines. You don't need to necessarily have a logical reason for the things that you do. Humans are big brain monkeys. You know, we've got a lot of hubris. We think we're special, but we're animals, you know? And, uh, yeah, I think you hit the nail right on the head.

• 27:33Speaker 03

  Honestly, this, and this, you know, not to go straight back to aviation because it's my area of expertise, but we saw the same sorts of things play out over this past week with China unveiling new stealth aircraft. Uh, where what we know about these aircraft is very minimal. You know, China hasn't made any official statements about them, but you will find large creators in every platform claiming that it's hypersonic, claiming that it's capable of low earth orbit. Uh, you know, like stuff that is downright science fiction, especially for a nation, you know, that up until 2017 was three and a half decades behind the United States in stealth. Arguably, there's still a decade, a decade and a half.

• 28:15Speaker 03

  Uh, but now we're going to pretend that they've got suborbital fighter jets. Uh, because people like that sexy narrative, you know? Uh, and in the absence of real information, we're just gonna make up whatever will drive the most clicks. You know, and it's frustrating. It's frustrating in my position because I really do, I try hard to base my, a lot of my content is just, uh, looking at what people are saying online and going, okay, well, that's, that's not true. Let's add some context. Let's add some nuance to this conversation, you know? But that is not the way to get rich, which is why, you know, I drive a used car in rent.

• 28:54Speaker 03

  Uh, but like, but I am enthused by the fact that like, I do have a pretty sizable audience for someone who is a professional party pooper, uh, at this point. And, you know, you guys too, you guys are another great example of like, you bring nuance and context to these conversations that people have without any expertise. You know, people talk about the intelligence community and the special operations world, you know, with all they've ever learned about it was stuff they read on Reddit, you know? And, uh, you guys bring actual context to it and you have in-depth conversations and that just doesn't pay as well as saying it's lizard people.

• 29:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, me and, me and Jack Murphy, you know, host of the Team House Podcast. We talk about it all the time, man. If we were like, if we went. And they'd started doing UFO stuff and like sensational stuff. We would be, you know, mansions and riding on jet skis and stuff like that. It'd be, it'd be fucking nice like.

• 29:49Speaker 03

  And I wouldn't be fighting and scrambling for another 1,000 subscribers, uh, you know, every quarter or whatever.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:56Speaker 03

  Of a million because they feel like, oh, well, especially if you start with credibility like you guys have. And tomorrow, you know, came out and was like, well, you know, it's the fluoride in the water turned the frogs gay. Uh, blow up, it would blow up, you know? Cause of your credibility. And you know, and it's a, it's a dangerous environment because you know, everybody does have bills to pay, you know? And it becomes a bit of a video game too. I think for some people where, you know, you've got a million followers. You want two million, you know? Uh, you don't want to see those numbers decline, right? It's, you derive self-worth from them, right?

• 30:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, I work in other, with other podcasts and these two people that I work with, they have, uh, sizable Instagram followings and, um, yeah, like you said, it's like, it's, they're so precious with it. And they have to grow and they have to continue, you know? And I'm the same way with the team house, right? Like I want to fucking blow it up. I see other podcasts and like they fucking suck. I want to, we should be better. We're better, you know? And that's, that's just a fact. It's not an opinion. It's a fact.

• 31:01Speaker 03

  I agree. I'm a big fan of you guys. So I agree.

• 31:04Speaker 02

  You know, and it's like, sometimes it can get frustrating with it. It's good to like take a minute and be like, yo, we're making podcasts about information and stuff that we like and we're interested in and interviewing great people. And we're getting paid for it. It might not be fucking tens of millions of dollars, but it's still pretty sick. You know, it's still pretty awesome. And we're doing it the right way. You know what I mean? Like with some ethics.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, honestly, that's, that's how, you know, I've got, I have a much bigger following than I ever imagined I could get for being an airplane nerd. You know what I mean? Like I am living my dream, you know? Uh, so when I talk about like, you always want to grow. I don't know if I would want a million followers, uh, anything, you know? It's stressful having a few hundred thousand people paying attention to what you say. But I can also appreciate the romance of it, you know. We were talking before we came online about nobili- this and like Nobel disease, like this idea that people who receive the Nobel Prize are told over and over again how smart and great they are that, you know, as they get later on in life, they start to believe some pretty wild stuff. Uh, and I mean, I, I fall victim to it. I try my best not to, uh,

• 32:14Speaker 03

  but with this New Jersey drone thing, I found a NASA program that, or at least it looked to be a NASA program that established a drone testing corridor between Delaware and New Jersey. And I reported on that saying, this very well could be, you know, what these drone sightings are. And then NASA called me and were like, you're wrong, dude. Like, we're not flying any drones. Uh, this program isn't managed by us. It's US Transcom now. Uh, you need to talk to them. And I had to go back on, you know, the next day and post another video because that video got a couple million views.

• 32:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 32:46Speaker 03

  Made NASA pretty upset, you know, and I had.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  But Alex, at the same time, it's not like you didn't say anything or double down. You came back.

• 32:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's the point. Exactly.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  Most people are not doing that.

• 32:58Speaker 03

  You've got to come back and say I was wrong.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:00Speaker 03

  And you're right, a lot of people aren't. And I guess maybe those are the two things that I try my best to keep.

• 33:07Speaker 05

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• 33:36Speaker 03

  In my work, and I think more journalists would do well to do the same, is the first, uh, admit that you're wrong. And the second is admit when you don't know enough about something.

• 33:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:46Speaker 03

  To talk about it, you know, uh, like, you know, do your homework, try to be well-read on as much as you can. But if you don't know enough about, you know, what's going on right now in Gaza, it's okay. I don't know enough, you know, uh, and I think that that's something that the internet has kind of made everybody not as good at.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:04Speaker 03

  You know?

• 34:05Speaker 02

  Agreed. Um, all right. So the Chinese J thirty six, I guess they're calling it, or we're calling it that. Uh, you have a video coming out. When this comes out, it'll probably be right around what's coming out. You cut it's coming out Friday, right?

• 34:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, it should drop Friday afternoon for like two thirty, three thirty timeframe.

• 34:23Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah. So this is working out perfectly. What do you got on that? Because it that was the talk of the town. And I'm sure a bunch of like, everyone at Lockheed and stuff were probably like, eh.

• 34:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:34Speaker 02

  Let's kick up this NGAD program again. You know what I mean?

• 34:38Speaker 03

  That's honestly why I would. That was the first thing I thought. Uh, so maybe the a bit of context that's worth noting for anyone who isn't aware. The United States started working on a sixth generation fighter. Sixth generation being sort of a stand in term because we don't know what capabilities actually define sixth generation. It's just sort of marketing terms at this point, but the US started development on such an aircraft back in twenty fourteen. With a program, a study commissioned with RAN called the Dominance Initiative. And that transitioned into the next generation air dominance program. The US started testing prototypes back in twenty twenty. We know they set some sort of performance records. We don't know what, but we do know that there are three flying prototypes associated with this program.

• 35:22Speaker 03

  And the Air Force was supposed to deliver a production contract for it this year. But, you know, Northrop Grumman went about eighty billion dollars over on the Sentinel ICBM program already. And they haven't built the first missile yet. Uh, so the Air Force doesn't have any money to fund this NGAD effort anymore. Uh, they commissioned another study over the past three months, uh, with with third party outsiders and a few industry insiders to see if the NGAD program is developing in the way it should, and they determined that it is worth the money. They just don't have the money. So they kicked this can to the Trump administration. They're going to have to make a decision as to whether or not they're going to basically increase the Air Force's budget to fund this F twenty two replacement fighter, an air superiority fighter.

• 36:06Speaker 03

  So now fast forward to just this past couple of weeks. Uh, on the one hundred and thirty first anniversary of Chairman Mao's birthday, two stealth aircraft were. photographed over China. One was over Chengdu, which is where Chengdu Aerospace Corporation is based out of. And then the other one was out of Shenyang Aircraft Corporation's headquarters. So this is sort of the Chinese equivalent of Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman. These are not two aircraft from the same corporation, they're two aircraft from effectively rival corporations. But based on their shape and size, they don't appear to be competitors for the same contract. They appear to be designed for very different things.

• 36:49Speaker 03

  The Shenyang aircraft is much smaller, it may be unmanned, it might be their equivalent of a CCA drone, like the ones the US is developing right now. But then there's that J-36, that much larger aircraft with a delta wing shape. It really does look a lot like renders we've seen for American sixth generation fighters like NGAD or the Navy's programs called FAXX, very similar concepts, they have a lot in common. But the thing is about this J-36 is that what we don't know about it is significantly larger than what we do know. We know that it's got a delta wing design, which suggests they're looking for larger payloads and much longer ranges.

• 37:30Speaker 03

  If you're familiar with the F-16 XL, it was an aircraft that was tested back in the 80s. It was effectively an F-16A with a cranked arrow wing, sort of like a delta wing, but with two different sweep angles. And by adding all that extra wing area, they were able to take the same F-16 with the same engine and carry twice the payload about 44% further. And I think that that speaks to exactly what this J-36 is meant to do. Its center fuselage looks a lot like the J-20s. Its nose stealth attributes look a lot like the J-20s. Its stealthy intakes on the bottom side look a bit like the J-35s, which are very Lockheed Martin reminiscent. For good reason, a man named Su Bin, a Chinese national named Su Bin, is serving a prison sentence

• 38:15Speaker 03

  for stealing the F-22 and F-35 blueprints for China. But this aircraft effectively looks like a J-20 XL. It is a platform that's Designed to fly at high altitudes, likely high supersonic speeds and over long ranges. Uh, and to that point, it has three engines, which is really, really unusual. There's uh, inlets for two of the engines, the outermost engines on the underside of the aircraft. And then there's a third inlet inlet for that center engine on the top. Now there's people online claiming that that's a scramjet. Uh, it's not, there's no evidence to substantiate the idea that that third engine would be a scramjet.

• 38:57Speaker 03

  And to be honest, China's turbofan technology is lagging so far behind the US's that they just need three engines, three turbofan engines on that platform to move all that aircraft and its payload would be my assessment. Uh, it looks like it's powered by WS 10C turbofan engines right now, which are engines designed for fourth generation fighters. These are the sorts of engines that would power, you know, the American equivalent of an F-16, you know, a non-stealth aircraft. They're still working on developing engines for fifth generation platforms like their J-20 and J-35. So this new aircraft is being powered by engines, you know, from the seventies and eighties era.

• 39:38Speaker 03

  Technology wise, you know, uh, it's, it's not, I guess, anywhere near as scary as a lot of content creators are making it out to be, but it's certainly got a ton of potential. You know, that delta wing design, that lack of standing vertical tail surfaces means that uh, it's very likely extremely difficult to detect using both high frequency targeting radar arrays, but also using low frequency early warning radar arrays. Uh, the lack of standing tails also makes it much more difficult to detect and target from the side. Whereas today's stealth fighters, that's more of a vulnerability. Uh, so while I'm not, I'm not going to lose any sleep over the J-36 right now.

• 40:18Speaker 03

  It is worth noting that what we're seeing are the early test flights of a platform, you know, so it's a half decade. The J twenty took six years to go from test flights to service. The J thirty five now is probably going to take fourteen years to go from test flights to service. So this aircraft's got a lot of maturation to go, and that's actually why I'm worried. Because it's a it's a great design to start from, to continue to mature the system into something that could reasonably pose a real threat to American air operations in the Pacific and to operations in places like Guam, further away than China could ever strike before.

• 41:01Speaker 03

  And to that point, there are people who are calling this J thirty six the original bomber program rather than a fighter. I think that that's a reasonable assessment to make, but I think people are making the mistake of assuming there's still a very fine and and clear line between fighters and bombers. And that just isn't the case anymore. You know, we're seeing with the B twenty one Raider. There's really strong evidence to suggest that the B twenty one, America's new stealth bomber, will be able to carry air-to-air weapons to defend itself. Not to mention the feasibility that it could carry systems like DARPA's Long Shot, which is effectively a cruise missile that carries AMRAMs.

• 41:42Speaker 03

  So we can self-escort, things like that. So the line between an aircraft meant to engage other aircraft and an aircraft meant to engage ground targets is about as murky as they can get at this point, and it's only going to get murkier. So is it a fighter or a bomber? I would argue it doesn't matter. Fighters can engage ground targets and air targets all the same, and this platform likely will too, you know?

• 42:06Speaker 04

  So hopping back to NGAD really quick. Until and unless that program is is heated back up, do you think that what we have in the stockpiles are capable if something were to kick off right now?

• 42:23Speaker 03

  That is like, that's the billion-dollar question, right? So the US is actively investing about twelve billion dollars into upgrading our F twenty two Raptor fleet, right?

• 42:34Speaker 03

  The Raptor is still the most capable air superiority fighter in the sky. But the Raptor started flying before the iPhone was invented. You know, this is a pretty dated platform in this 21st century, you know, rapidly changing digital battle space, right? So the Raptor is getting, it looks like a heads up, a helmet, helmet cue targeting, which is a capability it has really lacked for a long time. And it's likely getting infrared search and track targeting capabilities. And that IRST, as well as the F-35's distributed aperture system, which can also infrared target, are really effective for countering stealth platforms. But the most important question we should be asking is how is this aircraft,

• 43:17Speaker 03

  this J-36, going to be integrated into China's air warfare strategy? Right? And chances are pretty solid, like on GAD, it's going to be a bit removed from the fight. It's going to serve as sort of a battle manager for AI-enabled drones. Is what I would consider to be the most likely use case. And as such, it'll be a tough target to hit. It doesn't need to be the stealthiest aircraft in the world to be a tough target to hit, especially if it's pretty far removed and it's protected by CCA-type drones, you know? So does the US have the technology to counter it? I would say absolutely, but circumstance depending, right? It depends on the environment you're in, the systems you have available, the circumstances of the engagement.

• 44:02Speaker 03

  There's a lot of variables to consider. And I was at NORAD and NORTHCOM about a month ago, asking about these things and drone incursions and stuff like that. And one thing that the command element at the Space Force in particular really wanted to hit home for me was that China is not the Taliban. You know, people like to dismiss technology as made in China, especially because of their long history of intellectual property theft and sort of advancement through espionage. But they are a very well-funded adversary with a big and growing academic pipeline for, you know, aerospace, defense, technology. We can't dismiss the threat that... China poses out of hand because it's China.

• 44:47Speaker 03

  We have to acknowledge the fact that China is becoming much more capable than they ever have been in the past. And they don't need to be better than the United States at any one thing to pose a huge threat in the Pacific. You know, if the American defense apparatus is a suit of armor, you don't need to build the suit of armor that's just as good. You just need to build an arrow that can penetrate that suit of armor, right? So what we need to be worried about isn't is China's suit of armor as good as ours? We need to be worried about, well, could this aircraft be one of those arrows? And I do think that it has the potential to be. And because of that, you know, and I'm often called the shill for the military industrial complex because I do believe in winning the next conflict by deterring it.

• 45:32Speaker 03

  But I would like to see NGAD funded. And I think that seeing how serious China is about airspace dominance. It should be a clear decision. It should be, obviously, we need to maintain this advantage because if you find yourself trailing, it becomes much more expensive and potentially deadly to try to close that gap, you know?

• 45:55Speaker 03

  Especially China's airborne early warning and control apparatus is also rapidly maturing. And I would argue that that's the piece that they're missing when it comes to fielding these new aircraft. Last year or the year prior, F-35s and J-20s had a short interaction, a short encounter. And that was the one takeaway American pilots took from it was that the Chinese J-20s are getting better at coordinating with airborne early warning and control. Those are the things people don't think about that America is so good at because America, you know, operated stealth aircraft while no one else in the world did for more than three decades.

• 46:34Speaker 03

  You know, the US has a commanding lead in establishing doctrine and procedure for these stealth aircraft operations. But again, we can't dismiss China because they are working hard to close these gaps. And they don't have to worry about public buy-in like we do in American politics. So. thinks it's a good idea. That's it. You know, they get the money they need. So I hope that the Air Force gets the money they need.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, and their money goes a longer way, right? Like their purchasing power.

• 47:04Speaker 03

  The purchasing power parity. And it's worth noting that, you know, people say the US spends more than the next 10 countries combined on defense. That is objectively false. Those are self-reported figures. And it shouldn't surprise anyone that a nation that is not particularly honest about anything also isn't honest about their publicly disclosed defense spending. Uh, so independent analysis suggests China spending 700 billion plus on defense each year and their dollars go further. Uh, you know, a Colonel in the Chinese Army makes less than a Marine Corps Lance Corporal with a wife in Camp Lejeune. So if you think of it, if you think of it that way, they have the means to produce a great deal of military capability.

• 47:47Speaker 03

  There are still elements of the Chinese military with horse-drawn carriages, but those don't necessarily matter. If we're talking specifically about a naval and air power engagement over the Pacific, you know, again, they just got to build the right arrows.

• 48:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, um, the Chinese equivalent to the B-21 Raider, the swept wing bomb. Yeah. Uh, what's going on with that? Do they have, they, they have, they've tested, but they haven't deployed.

• 48:15Speaker 03

  So they, some people claim that they have tested the H-20. There were some rumors it was going to be unveiled last year. Uh, current US intel assessments suggest it'll probably be in the 2030s before it's actually unveiled. Uh, but it is, I would argue probably more akin to the B-2 than the B-21. Uh, in terms of stealth and onboard avionics, but again, that doesn't mean that by the time it enters service, it won't have advanced, you know, uh, to a, to a large extent, but I think it is worth noting that China has had access to American stealth materials through a variety of sources, including drones that have been downed in different places. The F-117 that went down in Serbia. They've got a lot.

• 48:57Speaker 03

  to pull from to assess American stealth practices and material sciences, which are really, really important. And that's all going to inform the H20 radar absorbent materials are sort of under discussed because there's not a lot of publicly available information. But that's sort of the skin on a stealth aircraft and the radar absorbent materials, the RAM on the B2 is supposed to be rated to absorb upwards of 80% of inbound electromagnetic energy, which is radar waves. That's huge. So you know, the shape of the aircraft is what really makes the biggest difference in terms of stealth. And from there, you're kind of making iterative improvements. But the material, the material science of your

• 49:40Speaker 03

  composite skin is the next most important variable. The United States does have a big lead in this realm, but that lead is waning, you know, and if China has access to, you know, materials from the F-117 and then materials, maybe from like the RQ-170, which is a much more recent ISR platform, a stealth platform, and they can see how those materials have changed, it can point them in a lot of the right directions.

• 50:07Speaker 02

  Or that a stealth Blackhawk from the bin Laden raid.

• 50:11Speaker 03

  Perfect example, a perfect example, you know, although it looks like the stealth Blackhawk was probably coated in the same half glass radar absorbent material used on some F-16s, some Wild Weasels. So I would argue

• 50:26Speaker 00

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• 50:54Speaker 03

  The counter to that is ceramic-based RAM. There was a breakthrough a few years ago at a US university in the South. I can't remember the school. Sheryl Zou is the researcher heading the program. Ceramic based ram would be a revolution in stealth unlike anything we've seen since the seventies probably. It can withstand significantly higher temperatures. The thing that stops the F-22, for instance, from being faster is that the ram we have today is polymer based. It's plastic and plastic burns in high heat and friction. And that's why you've probably seen pictures of like the F-22 with like blisters on its nose. And like it's, you know, it's skin kind of peeling off. That's because that aircraft was sprinting,

• 51:37Speaker 03

  you know, for long enough to burn off the skin. Ceramic won't burn off like that. So not only can you sustain much higher speeds, but you don't need to scrape all that toxic stuff off your aircraft. They have to wear mop gear to do it and then recode it and then re-cure it for three days in an oven effectively. Before the aircraft can get back out into operation with ceramic ram, it would last significantly longer. It would also make it cheaper to just coat everything in radar absorbent materials, which wouldn't make every F-16 stealth or whatever, but would reduce their radar return, you know, buy you a little bit more time. So that is something that the US certainly has in the pipeline. Cheryl's who's got a defense contract.

• 52:19Speaker 03

  Whether or not it'll manifest with six gen fighters, you know, is anybody's guess. But it's worth noting that the US has been making moves to maintain its competitive advantage in this realm. They just have not been consolidated and funded into that singular NGAD program quite yet. And I, I do think that that's, I think that there's a solid chance the Trump administration recognizes the value in NGAD, even if Elon Musk is dumb enough to think that quadcopters can replace troop fighters, you know. But the, and for anyone out there who thinks that they can, quadcopters by their very nature

• 52:59Speaker 03

  are limited to low altitudes and short ranges. So you're never going to have a quadcopter swarm flying at 60,000 feet to engage enemy fighters. That's.

• 53:09Speaker 02

  I mean, listen, there's a good chance Elon Musk was on ketamine when he, when he put that out there. So.

• 53:16Speaker 03

  And to be fair, I mean, but it sounds great because because it also made him think that like the problem with targeting stealth aircraft is line of sight when he's, you know, he was like, all you need is like a low light camera and AI. Bro, if you have line of sight with that stealth fighter, you are already screwed.

• 53:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:38Speaker 03

  You know, like if you're in air defense system, the AARGMER, our new harm, our new radar hunting missiles got like an 80 nautical mile range publicly disclosed.

• 53:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:49Speaker 03

  You are already blown up before you have line of sight, you know, but like, I don't know. The dude knows rockets. I'm a big fan of Starship, but but he does not know tactical aviation.

• 54:01Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, I know we're running out of time, but the next time we have you on, which will be soon, I definitely want to discuss the newest Chinese aircraft carrier and your thoughts on that.

• 54:13Speaker 03

  I would love, honestly, I think people watching this might not know, but talking about airplanes with Jason Lyons has been one of my favorite things to do. Without it being a podcast. So yeah, I'm anytime you want me, whether the cameras are rolling or not, you know?

• 54:28Speaker 04

  Awesome.

• 54:29Speaker 02

  Guys, don't forget to check out Alex Hollings, like you need this plug anyway. Sandbox News, Air Power Series on the Sandbox YouTube channel, of course. His journalistic work to Sandbox News dot, what's the website? Sandbox?

• 54:43Speaker 03

  Sandbox dot U S. Sandbox with two X's dot U S or Sandbox News dot com. That's easier to remember.

• 54:50Speaker 02

  Okay, the link will be in the description. You could check out Alex. I'm gonna put all of his links down there. You could find them. He's probably one of the best aviation YouTubers out there, I would say, at least.

• 55:02Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 55:03Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  All the stuff I say, I parent, like the shit I was saying last week, it was just.

• 55:07Speaker 04

  Same. And I even got it wrong.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  From Alex's videos, you know what I mean? Like, I'm like, yeah, the J36 engines are a piece of shit. Like, they're not up to date. And I got that from you. Like, I'm not, yeah, what do I?

• 55:18Speaker 03

  If you ever want to do a deep dive into turbo fans, I am happy to, but it might put the audience to sleep, but I'll be excited.

• 55:24Speaker 02

  It'd be good. It'd be like ASMR, you know, like after like hour two, you gotta start going to sleep.

• 55:29Speaker 04

  I'll talk, I'll talk about it.

• 55:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:32Speaker 02

  Guys, don't forget to like and subscribe. If you're listening to us on audio, rated five stars, subscribe there so you can never miss a download. Jason Lyons, all his links are in the description. Mick Mulroy, description, everything, Andy Milburn, all, everything you need to know about this show is in the description. Stop asking me. It's always in the description.

• 55:57Speaker 02

  Just a little deductive reasoning goes a long way. Best way, and this is the most important one, the best way to support the show is patreon.com slash the team house. You get this show ad free, and you get the team house ad free. So it's two podcasts for the price of one. And yeah, thanks, guys. Thanks a lot. Happy New Year to everybody, too.

• 56:19Speaker 05

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• 56:49Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 56:50Speaker 04

  Thanks.

• 56:58Speaker 00

  Cash Flow Crunch, OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 57:34Speaker 05

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 58:13Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of 5-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of 5-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on.

• 58:58Speaker 00

  Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.