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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:05 Speaker 00 We have been seeing each other longer than the other. Well, I'm the other woman, but you know, the main woman has been there. He told me that we could no longer be seen in public together.
0:19 Dr. John Delony? You don't have a special secret thing. You have a lie.
0:29 Dr. John Delony? Hey, what's going on? What's going on? This is John with Dr. John Deloney Show coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee. Talking to real people going through real challenges. Talking to people from all over the planet. If you want to be on the show, I'd love to have you on. We'll change your name. We'll change your location and we will get to the bottom of what's going on in your world and help you find the next right move. Click the link in the show notes if you want to be on the show. So go out to Tulsa, Oklahoma and talk to well, well, well, my Michelle. What's up, Michelle?
1:02 Speaker 00 Good morning.
1:03 Dr. John Delony? How we doing?
1:05 Speaker 00 I don't know. Well, I'm, I'm talking to you, so I'm doing kind of okay.
1:10 Dr. John Delony? There you go. You're up and at 'em. You're up and at 'em. Kelly says that talking to me ruins her day, but I appreciate your kindness.
1:18 Dr. John Delony? So what's up?
1:20 Speaker 00 Um, well, my question is how do I walk away? After being the other woman for probably about two years?
1:34 Dr. John Delony? Tell, tell, tell me more about it.
1:37 Speaker 00 Okay, so.
1:38 Dr. John Delony? Actually, let me do this. Let me do this instead of, I want to hear the story, but when you say, it sounds like you're asking me for a mechanic's question, but I think you're asking something way deeper.
1:51 Dr. John Delony? Because like, how do you walk away? You block him on everything. You stop returning his calls and you deal with the heartbreak and the grief, not only of this relationship, but of the fantasy of it all. And you, at some level, violating your own core values, which is, I participated in long-term deception. I'm gonna grieve the crap out of that. I'm gonna be sad. And I'm not gonna, the contact is over. And then I'm gonna be about finding my own new relationships, my new friendships, et cetera. Building a life that I wanna live inside of my own skin within. That's the mechanic side. But it sounds like you're asking me a deeper question.
2:33 Speaker 00 Um, well, I mean, I, yes, all of those things. That is, I think about those things all the time.
2:43 Dr. John Delony? Okay. Tell me what makes this so hard?
2:47 Speaker 00 Um, I think if I knew the answer to that, I'd be able to do the mechanics to it.
2:56 Dr. John Delony? That's fair.
2:57 Speaker 00 We have, uh, we have been seeing each other longer than the other. Well, I'm the other woman, but you know, the main woman has been there.
3:12 Dr. John Delony? Okay, so I'll stop. I wanna interrupt as we go, cuz I wanna break this, the story that is taking hold in you, okay? So I want you to tell me this story and I'm annoyingly gonna, gonna jump in, okay? Alright, so when it comes to longevity, doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Alright, keep going.
3:31 Speaker 00 Um, so we started seeing each other and it got serious pretty quickly, um, which kind of scared me. So I wasn't ready for all of that. And then he decided he was gonna start seeing other people, um, which then I didn't like that, but I just dealt with it. And then eventually, he told me that there was...
3:59 Speaker 00 Somebody that he was, I guess, more serious with. And so at that point, we could no longer be seen in public together. And at first I did do um the mechanics of it, right? Like, I'm not going to be part of this. I'm not going to participate in a lie. Uh, you're dragging me into your mess. But he just won't go away ever.
4:27 Dr. John Delony? Okay, let me jump in. You won't let him go.
4:31 Speaker 00 Right.
4:32 Dr. John Delony? Right.
4:32 Speaker 00 No, you're right. Yes, no, you're right. I, for some reason, I, I can't. I can't. The, I, every, I have contact with him every day, every single day. Um, and I just, I, I've tried. I have had millions of talks with myself about
5:00 Speaker 00 why should it be doing this? Or that it's not fair to me. It's not fair to this other person. Um, you know, he's not a nice person for doing these things.
5:13 Dr. John Delony? Yeah.
5:14 Speaker 00 But then he'll call or he'll text or I'll see him and I'm right back in it. Like, I just.
5:23 Dr. John Delony? So Pia Melody, who's a, um, a famous thinker and therapist and writer. She's the one where I was first introduced. I don't know her. She passed, she's passed away. Um, but she's who first introduced me to the idea of love addiction.
5:45 Dr. John Delony? The idea that a person, because, because here, here's the definition of addiction. It is continuing to do a behavior that you know has adverse consequences. It's not good for you.
5:59 Dr. John Delony? And yet you feel powerless and continue to do it anyway, over and over and over again.
6:05 Dr. John Delony? And you know that this is not a good human being that you're with. You also know that this is a violation of the person you project yourself into the world to be.
6:21 Dr. John Delony? And yet, and so what if we looked at this fantasy, this entity that happens to be a person and not a drink? What if we looked at this person as an addiction?
6:42 Dr. John Delony? Because if we change, because right now you look at him as somebody you love and somebody you know him better than even his own girlfriend knows, and that y'all have this special bond, all of that is fantasy.
6:58 Dr. John Delony? Y'all don't have a special secret thing. You have a lie.
7:07 Dr. John Delony? And it, I've known him longer, I know him deeper, I know the glance across the room, and we're not supposed to be seeing each other in public. It feels like you've created this secret world with this person. That's how I define intimacy, the creation of a secret world between two people. But you don't have a secret world with this person.
7:31 Dr. John Delony? You're on the outside of his secret world. You're a player in his game.
7:39 Dr. John Delony? And so, let me ask you, like, why now? After two years, why now?
7:45 Dr. John Delony? What is this addiction? Let me ask you this, like, what is this addiction? So, you may have heard me say this on the show, I don't beat people up for drinking or for struggling with sex addiction or pornography addiction, because often those things are the actual solution to the real problem.
8:04 Dr. John Delony? So what is he solving for in your life?
8:10 Dr. John Delony? A fear of loneliness, shame, a fear of, I'm this old and this is as good as it's going to get, all men are like this, so I might as well, like, what is he solving for in your life?
8:22 Speaker 00 All of those things.
8:24 Dr. John Delony? Tell me about them.
8:24 Speaker 00 All of those things.
8:31 Speaker 00 I don't trust men. I don't trust them. Not even a little bit.
8:37 Dr. John Delony? Okay, fair.
8:38 Speaker 00 At all. Um. Life has taught me from
8:45 Speaker 00 a young age that they are not to be trusted.
8:48 Dr. John Delony? Fair. It's a lived, learned experience and I'm not gonna like, your body knows that as a truth. I'm not gonna, I'm, I'm not gonna fight you on that at this time. Right? Like, I'll, I'll accept that. You've learned over time, over experience, I can't trust them. Okay?
9:03 Speaker 00 Mm-mm. No. Um. There is a fear of
9:11 Speaker 00 loneliness. Um, that this is
9:17 Speaker 00 this is as good as it's gonna get. Um.
9:23 Speaker 00 Not necessarily because I feel like
9:29 Speaker 00 okay, well, there probably is part of me that feels like I'm not worthy of anything more than this.
9:35 Dr. John Delony? For sure.
9:36 Speaker 00 Um.
9:37 Dr. John Delony? Here's how I know that's true. Here's how I know that's true. You told me that you didn't want this and you didn't need this and you weren't gonna be a part of this and then your exact words were, um, I decided to just deal with it.
9:49 Speaker 00 Mm-hmm. I did.
9:51 Dr. John Delony? That's, those are the words of somebody who has learned over time that what you feel and what you want and what you believe simply doesn't count for anything. So I'm gonna bury it.
10:03 Speaker 00 Mm-hmm.
10:06 Speaker 00 And then there's also
10:10 Speaker 00 in that same vein, the fear of vulnerability. Right? So I don't
10:20 Speaker 00 Want, it scares me to death to think about having to open up to someone new.
10:29 Speaker 00 Right? Like, this man knows me very well, and he knows everything that, he knows all of my mess, all of my trash, all of my chaos, and to have to open up to someone new,
10:48 Speaker 00 there's the fear of rejection and not being loved for who I am and what I come with. And so it's just easier if, um, I have part of someone who I don't have to hide my stuff from than to think about having somebody else in my life that, to get to know someone all over again. I don't want to do that. Um.
11:22 Dr. John Delony? And so can I sit here with you on that? I get that. I feel that for real.
11:31 Dr. John Delony? And the way you just described that is 100% addict talk.
11:40 Dr. John Delony? I've had that exact same conversation trying to talk to somebody about going to rehab.
11:47 Dr. John Delony? And they don't want to rebuild their life over again. They don't want to meet new people. They don't want to come up with new life rhythms. They just stare at the idea of going to the gym and like changing how they interact with the world. And they're like, dude, I can just have a drink and it all stops.
12:05 Dr. John Delony? And I get that. I get that.
12:10 Dr. John Delony? And it, it's these moments when you have to either A, you, you, you have to come to the conclusion yourself that you're worth more than this.
12:23 Dr. John Delony? I, I can't talk you into it. It's the hardest thing in the world when, when you care about somebody who's struggling with addiction. It's the hardest thing in the world. I can't, I can't make you look in the mirror and believe you're worth more than this. That's why they say most people have to bottom out.
12:44 Speaker 00 I just don't know that I
12:45 Dr. John Delony? Go ahead.
12:46 Speaker 00 I'm sorry. I just don't know that I can, I can process any more change, any more upheaval.
12:59 Dr. John Delony? But, but let's talk about it a different way. I don't know that you can carry the burden of this anymore.
13:06 Dr. John Delony? And so what I want to tell you is change is coming.
13:12 Dr. John Delony? This ends badly.
13:16 Dr. John Delony? This ends in heartbreak, in deception, this ends in ash. There's no way this works out in the end.
13:26 Dr. John Delony? And even if he calls you tomorrow and says, I've had this big revelation, this big spiritual awakening. I've broken off with the other woman. You're my person for life till death do us part. You would still sleep with one eye open for the rest of your life.
13:43 Speaker 00 Oh, I know that.
13:44 Dr. John Delony? This doesn't end well. And so hear me say, change is coming.
13:51 Dr. John Delony? I always tell couples like who are married, you can have the hard conversation now at your kitchen table, or you can have it in a divorce attorney's office, but you're gonna have the conversation. And so for you, change is coming. Do you want it to be on your terms? Towards whatever light you want to head towards?
14:10 Dr. John Delony? Or do you want it to be on somebody else's terms? And pile more shame, more guilt, more exposure on this thing. You think it's vulnerable now? Wait till she finds out. And puts it all over everywhere.
14:25 Dr. John Delony? Wait till he decides that he's sick of you and he puts it all over everywhere.
14:34 Dr. John Delony? This will come to light. I would rather you be holding the flashlight when it does.
14:41 Speaker 00 Okay, so how do I?
14:46 Speaker 00 I mean, if we're phrasing it as an addiction, which I can understand, because it's like it's a dopamine fix, right? But how do I?
14:57 Dr. John Delony? I mean, not really, but it doesn't matter. Yeah.
15:00 Speaker 00 Okay, sorry.
15:01 Dr. John Delony? It's okay.
15:02 Speaker 00 How do I?
15:04 Dr. John Delony? Well, I mean, I think here's the thing. I think you just gave me a great insight. The tendency here is to make things more complex than necessary.
15:14 Speaker 00 But how do I walk away?
15:16 Dr. John Delony? The moment.
15:17 Speaker 00 How do I quit? Go ahead. Sorry.
15:19 Dr. John Delony? I mean, you have to commit to simplicity.
15:27 Dr. John Delony? The moment you start thinking of, well, where am I going to get my dopamine and oxytocin? How's that going to interact with my serotonin? And I need to, and how am I going to not do this? And how can I not do that? All of those questions are dumping variables in. It's a way that your body feels busy without actually solving the problem.
15:48 Dr. John Delony? We're going to solve for simplicity here.
15:54 Dr. John Delony? I'm going for 30 days, for 60 days, I'm going to go stone sober. No contact.
16:01 Speaker 00 I can't do that.
16:02 Dr. John Delony? You can't.
16:02 Speaker 00 I work with them.
16:03 Dr. John Delony? Do what?
16:04 Speaker 00 I work with them.
16:05 Dr. John Delony? Well, that just got more complicated.
16:08 Speaker 00 Yeah.
16:08 Dr. John Delony? And.
16:09 Speaker 00 So there's every day. Yeah.
16:10 Dr. John Delony? Here's the thing. If you were an alcoholic and you worked at a bar, I would tell you, you got to get a different job.
16:20 Dr. John Delony? This ends with you unemployed at some point, anyway. You know that. Is he your boss?
16:27 Dr. John Delony? Nice. This for sure ends in one or both of y'alls unemployment. You know that.
16:35 Dr. John Delony? This is a train that's left the station.
16:47 Dr. John Delony? If he's in a position of power over you, you can go sit down with HR.
16:53 Dr. John Delony? You can have that conversation. Here's the thing. Any sort of major life change like this requires major life change.
17:06 Dr. John Delony? And you can see him
17:10 Dr. John Delony? for a period of time. And you don't have to text him. You don't have to return his calls. You don't have to have private conversations in the hallway.
17:23 Dr. John Delony? And since this is a complicated employment issue now, I would document the heck out of those things. Because if and when he moves to fire you or to get you moved or demoted, you'll have these things written down and say, "My boss carried on a secret sexual relationship with me for two years, and I felt trapped and stuck."
17:44 Dr. John Delony? That day's coming is what I'm trying to tell you.
17:49 Dr. John Delony? Get all the firewood and the coats and stuff you need.
17:56 Dr. John Delony? But when you tell yourself already, "I can't", that tells me you're not ready.
18:05 Dr. John Delony? Because the folks I meet with regularly who are struggling with addiction say, "I have to. It's time." Nobody can make that decision for you.
18:18 Dr. John Delony? Call me anytime, Michelle. Here's the crazy thing. I believe in you more than you believe in yourself right now. And in the dark moments,
18:27 Dr. John Delony? remember those words. "I believe in you." When we come back, a man asks if stepping away from politics to protect his mental health was the right choice.
18:38 Dr. John Delony? This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Financial stress does not just damage your bank account. It can also take a toll on your mental health, your emotional health, and your relationships. Money worries cause anxiety and they're one of the leading sources of conflict for couples. I know this personally. My wife and I have had years of struggles because of financial issues. Listen, therapy can help even with your money. And therapy is not about financial advice, but it can help you build healthier ways of coping and give you strategies to communicate with those you care about about money without it turning into a war. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct
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19:46 Dr. John Delony? All right, so here's what happened. I was going to lunch the other day with Kelly, the producer of the show, and she got into my truck and she was expecting to hear some crazy punk rock or heavy metal music blasting. And when she hopped in, my phone connected with the radio and a gentle voice of Jesus' Sermon on the Mount came out of my speakers. And she looked at me and was like, what is this? And I looked at her and said, yeah, I don't just advertise Hallow. I actually use it. Hallow is the number one Christian prayer and meditation app in the world for a reason. And it's become one of the most important things I do to start every day and sometimes to anchor the middle of my day or close down my day. Anchoring myself in prayer helps me slow down and prioritize
20:27 Dr. John Delony? what matters most to me in the world before everything goes bananas. Hallow gives you space to breathe, to reflect, and to pray. And it's guided, it's simple, and it meets you where you are to help you anchor your faith practice or to even start a faith practice to begin with. It has daily reflections, scripture, music, special series, and most importantly, it gives you peace. There's no pressure here, it's just practice. And you can try Hallow free for three months only through my link. Go to hallow.com/deloney and sign up for free today. That's hallow.com/deloney for three months for free.
21:05 Dr. John Delony? All right, let's go to Duluth, Minnesota and talk to Michael. Hey, Michael, what's up, brother?
21:10 Speaker 02 All right, I told myself I wasn't gonna do this, but I did write something up so I don't forget.
21:16 Dr. John Delony? Oh, you're good, you're good.
21:17 Speaker 02 Um, over the last several years, I was really invested in politics. By that, I mean, I followed everything religiously, on social media, with people I talked to, things I watched, everything. It was consuming. And the big turning point for me was when Charlie Kirk was assassinated. I respected him. And after that, my best friend of 25 years posted something on Facebook saying that he deserved to be killed because my friend disagreed with him. And I sent him a message saying that was hurtful. And previously, my friend had posts saying that if any of his friends voted for Trump, to delete him as a friend because he didn't want to be associated with those people. So I never said anything political
21:58 Speaker 02 ever, ever, ever to him. But I did tell him that I liked Charlie Kirk, and that I did vote for Trump. And I'm not gonna read the comments on this video.
22:06 Dr. John Delony? (laughing)
22:07 Speaker 02 I told him how I
22:09 Dr. John Delony? Yeah.
22:10 Speaker 02 I told him how I really did do not care who my friend voted for. He's my best friend, and I loved him. And I was hoping and would assume he felt the same way. But unfortunately, he didn't. And he sent me basically a 10-page research paper on why I'm wrong, and we have not spoken since. So since then, politics has really added nothing positive to my life. I get stressed out about every single thing happening in the world. Every little election feels like the most important election ever. And I would lose sleep over some random election in Vermont or something. And I couldn't do it anymore, so I completely erased everything,
22:51 Speaker 02 news, politics, from my life. I unfollowed everybody, unfollowed podcasts, everything even remotely political. My question is, did I do the right thing? Because I want to know what's going on in the world. But I don't know how I can, because when somebody posts anything even remotely political, my heart starts racing, and I just have to immediately close it, or I'm laying in bed, and something will come up, and then I'm like, well, yes, I'm not falling asleep for another hour, because it's something remotely news.
23:21 Dr. John Delony? Sure.
23:22 Speaker 02 Is it okay to be, like, oblivious? Or am I just covering up the real problem?
23:28 Dr. John Delony? Man, what a great, great, great question. And
23:34 Dr. John Delony? First, I just want to tell you, thank you for being thoughtful about it. Thank you. So, man, there's so much here. So, let me back out and I'll use Charlie Kirk as an example. And I know even saying the name Charlie Kirk is a third rail thing, right? Yeah.
23:53 Dr. John Delony? Have you heard of the, the, the, I don't remember exactly how it's called, but it's essentially the, the, the three-way problem with Charlie Kirk? I have not. Okay. So, the three-way problem with Charlie Kirk is because of how algorithms work,
24:14 Dr. John Delony? depending on who you follow and like and whatever, and support in any part of your life, if you're a hunter and a fisherman and a teacher and a dance instructor and a whatever,
24:28 Dr. John Delony? the Charlie Kirk you get on your feed could be one of three different versions of, of a total person.
24:37 Dr. John Delony? And so, and you know what? I'm gonna back out of Charlie Kirk because it's just so contentious and the feelings are so heavy. I'm gonna go to a comic who I have high, high respect for. His name's Andrew Schultz. He's not everybody's cup of tea. He's pretty vulgar, but I think he's one of the most brilliant minds working today. Okay?
24:56 Dr. John Delony? He had, he has a podcast that he, that, that I listen to and he's got funny people on it, comedians. Some of it, I just fast forward through it because they're just, just being crass and whatever. But he's had Mondami, he's had Bernie Sanders, and he's also had Trump.
25:14 Dr. John Delony? And he, I remember a very thoughtful conversation he had on a show talking about when it occurred to him that depending on your algorithm, you may only know Andrew Schultz as the right-wing, super Republican, MAGA guy, high-Trump supporter.
25:35 Dr. John Delony? And depending on your other feed, you may only know Andrew Schultz as the guy who had two socialist politicians on. Yeah. And that's all you know. And you may have a third inside of him as just this comedian who tells crass jokes a lot. Hmm. Right? Or you may know him as a comedian who is a savant at cultural comedy. He goes into all sorts of other countries, other cultures, and he goes right at them with really deep, layered jokes where they feel like, oh, we're seen and known, and they're getting made fun of in really uncomfortable ways, and they're all in. It's like, he gets welcomed
26:19 Dr. John Delony? to their table. You know, like, you can make fun of him. I can make fun of my family, but you can't. He is a master at saying, oh, I'm one of y'all. Right? And so, depending on your algorithm, that's a different version you get. And so, when he discussed that, I had a ton of compassion all of a sudden for everybody. Because depending on the world that your algorithm feeds you, that's all you know of the world. Yeah. And so, if somebody has this deep-seated, like, vitriol against somebody,
26:56 Dr. John Delony? I've just developed a compassion for that person, because I have to believe that's all they get all day long. Right, wrong, or indifferent. And it's consuming. And it, there you go. It becomes an addiction. It becomes consuming. It becomes, um, almost compulsive. Yep. And so, you have recognized that in yourself, and you've backed all the way out, and now you're dealing with the other part of this, which is, when something consumes us, whether it's our work, our dating life, our person, or politics, it usually is filling a vacuum.
27:40 Dr. John Delony? Other places in our life. And so my question for you is, where do you feel dead in your own skin? Where do you feel powerless? Where do you feel anxious? And is politics this obsession with politics? And what you're talking about is not having an idea of what's going on in the world. You're way past that. I've been there too, brother. And so what else is happening in your life? Where you feel dead in your own skin? Where you feel powerless? Where you feel like you are just a beach ball in the ocean? Getting cast around?
28:18 Speaker 02 Um, well, so I'm married. I have three boys and another one on the way. I don't know if it's a boy or a girl, but another one on the way. And I, like, I was just talking to my wife last night. I was in such a funk because we had a snow day yesterday because we had first blizzard I've ever experienced. And like my, I have, and I always have had such a short temper. That I just, the smallest little thing, I blow up. And then immediately I'm like, I did not need to blow up over that.
28:58 Dr. John Delony? All right, what's the history of that?
29:02 Speaker 02 My dad always had that. My dad had, my dad worked a lot. I mean, I saw my dad a lot, but my dad had, there was no like slightly annoyed version of my dad. It was when he got mad, bam, he freaked out. Like, one example was, um, we had a computer that wasn't working right in the basement. And he was downstairs working on it. And we hear a scream and a smash. And he comes upstairs and he had ripped the mouse out of the computer, peeled the buttons back and like slammed it on the ground. And then he walked upstairs and we're like, what's wrong? And he's like, oh, no, nothing. Just the computer wasn't working.
29:40 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
29:41 Speaker 02 So he goes from zero to 100 and then back down.
29:43 Dr. John Delony? Do me a favor, okay?
29:45 Speaker 02 Yeah.
29:46 Dr. John Delony? You have any siblings?
29:48 Speaker 02 Yes.
29:49 Dr. John Delony? Older or younger or both?
29:51 Speaker 02 Two older, one younger.
29:52 Dr. John Delony? Okay. I want you to close your eyes real quick while we're on the phone here in your car. I know it's kind of weird. Hopefully your students don't see you. And I want you to picture yourself at 10 years old, fourth grade.
30:05 Dr. John Delony? Standing in the living room of your childhood home,
30:10 Dr. John Delony? and hearing one room over your dad coming unglued,
30:16 Dr. John Delony? smashing things, yelling at your mom, going after your little brother.
30:24 Dr. John Delony? I want you to feel that in your body, being 10,
30:30 Dr. John Delony? and completely powerless at the rage of this man.
30:42 Dr. John Delony? No 10-year-old, no 10-year-old
30:48 Dr. John Delony? should be scared of their dad.
30:54 Dr. John Delony? Okay?
30:58 Dr. John Delony? I'm sorry it's all bloody hell that happened to you.
31:03 Dr. John Delony? Your dad should have been your warm, safe place of strength and sturdiness, and he was an electric fence. And you never knew when he was gonna shock you.
31:19 Dr. John Delony? Often, men who grow up in homes with
31:24 Dr. John Delony? emotionally immature, emotionally chaotic, rageful fathers, do one of two things. They seek power and control everywhere in their lives, and they can't have it, because that's not how the world works, that's not reality.
31:43 Dr. John Delony? And they recreate the story of their childhood
31:49 Dr. John Delony? with short tempers, with anger, with demands, with a need to feel ahead of the curve. You had to see, to, you had to look around, learn how to look around corners, because otherwise you're gonna get your head knocked off as a 10-year-old. Of course, you're doing that as an adult. Or men, they disappear from the world. They just opt out. And that's not you. You're a man of character and integrity, and so you've got responsibilities, and you love deeply. And also, you have a very clear sense of the world needs to be a certain way. You're trying to force stability into an unstable world. You've been having to do that since you were a kid.
32:33 Dr. John Delony? And politics is one of the few places where we are reduced to how small we actually are. Because we get one vote every four years, we get one vote every two years, we get votes in local elections, and we realize that our influence is actually greater. Not with what we thumbs up or thumbs down, or long posts, or ten-page diatribes to our closest friends. But in how we treat our neighbors, how we open our doors, how we're hospitable,
33:14 Dr. John Delony? how we do the next right thing, day in and day out, over a long period of time. And when we live like that, we're forced to deal with the nuclear reactor in the middle of our chest. You hear what I'm saying?
33:33 Speaker 02 Yep. And that was part of my frustration, because I, like, you are really helpless. You get all worked up over this random election, but there's literally nothing I could do about it. And, you know, I would maybe comment on some things here and there and whatnot, and try to get people to, if they were on the fence, to vote one way or the other. But then, I'm like, it's not worth it. I just, it was causing so much stress, and there was nothing good coming out of it.
34:07 Dr. John Delony? Right. So, my question for you is, where is there good?
34:15 Speaker 02 In the world, or just in my life?
34:17 Dr. John Delony? No, no, no. Where do you have purpose? Where do you put good in the world?
34:23 Speaker 02 At home and at work.
34:26 Dr. John Delony? How do you do it at work?
34:30 Speaker 02 Treat kids like human beings.
34:34 Dr. John Delony? That's not enough. Go deeper than that.
34:40 Speaker 02 Um, I try to make it very clear to whether they pass my class or not, I want every single kid to know that I truly care about that. Like, I have a couple of kids with Fs right now, but they come and talk to me. They come and tell me what's going on in their lives. So I want every single kid that walks into my room to know that I truly want what is best for them.
35:05 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
35:09 Dr. John Delony? And common from young people who grew up in traumatic households is this powerful internal drive that nobody else will ever feel like I've felt.
35:21 Speaker 02 Right.
35:22 Dr. John Delony? The challenge with that is, is if you don't start with yourself, that becomes exhausting and you burn out over time.
35:31 Speaker 02 Yep.
35:33 Dr. John Delony? Trying to give what you don't have is just the waiter who continues to fill up people's water glass, but never goes back to the source to refill their pitcher.
35:48 Dr. John Delony? And so here's a couple of things. Number one, I think you did the right thing, detoxing from politics.
35:55 Speaker 02 I feel better, but.
35:57 Dr. John Delony? And, and, and that is different than burying your head in the sand. And you know the difference.
36:03 Speaker 02 Right.
36:04 Dr. John Delony? I've learned I can't get into that ecosystem because they're too good.
36:12 Speaker 02 Yep.
36:12 Dr. John Delony? The neuroscientists who partner with the techno wizards, who partner with media companies are simply better than my brain chemistry. I'm at peace with that.
36:21 Speaker 02 Yep.
36:21 Dr. John Delony? Their fonts, their volumes, their breaking news stories, their slants, they're just better than me. And they're not selling me information, they're selling me a drug.
36:32 Speaker 02 Yep, yeah.
36:33 Dr. John Delony? And at the end of the day, media companies, all of them, are publicly traded companies,
36:40 Dr. John Delony? which means they have one job on planet Earth. That is to sell ads, to get clicks, not to give you information.
36:51 Dr. John Delony? They would be failing their shareholders if they did not do whatever they could to make you feel like if you don't see the next thing, your life's in danger.
37:04 Dr. John Delony? And so when I, when we back out and say what they're giving me is not information. They're giving me heroin. They're giving me cocaine. Then that makes it easier to walk away. And then I have to do the hard work of finding reliable sources where I can get some daily dose of what's going on.
37:23 Speaker 02 Yep.
37:24 Dr. John Delony? And then I can get on with my life. And getting on with my life does not mean burying my head in the sand. It means it asking, where can I show up for myself? Where can I be in service to myself so that I'm well and I'm whole? And by the way, brother, I've spent some time with a trauma therapist and I think that's where you need to go.
37:42 Dr. John Delony? You don't understand the relief and the peace on the other side when, when you disconnect that nuclear reactor in your chest.
37:50 Dr. John Delony? When you recognize I wasn't safe then, but I'm safe now.
37:56 Dr. John Delony? I'm telling you right now, brother, your kids will feel it, your wife will feel it, your students will feel it. You can tell everybody all day long, I love you and I'm your safe place, but man, it all changes when they, when they feel you're their safe place.
38:10 Speaker 02 That's exactly what I told my wife last night. Cause like, I love my boys, my boys are my world. And she was like, well, do you, you know, hug them and tell them that you love them? And I'm like, every single day when I get home before I leave, I give them a hug. I tell them I love them. I tell them I'm proud that they're my kids. But then the second they do something bad, then you know, I raise my voice and yell at them. So like, I can tell them that all I want, but are my actions showing this?
38:38 Dr. John Delony? Or, or put it another way, and this is, this is, this is going to be hard to say, hard to hear. Okay. I've had to hear this too. So this is the pot with the kettle here.
38:49 Dr. John Delony? When their life gets bananas or stressed, do they come running for you?
38:56 Speaker 02 No.
38:58 Dr. John Delony? Okay. That's the measure of,
39:01 Speaker 02 Yeah.
39:02 Dr. John Delony? do I have a safe attachment with my boys? Or do they have an anxious attachment?
39:08 Speaker 02 I could tell they kind of get nervous whenever they have to come there like, you know, to tell me, hey, my brother did this and they come and tell me, I could tell that they're,
39:17 Dr. John Delony? There we go.
39:17 Speaker 02 they're nervous.
39:18 Dr. John Delony? Yeah. And you've been there before as a kid and then you feel guilty and shame that your boys are feeling that.
39:26 Speaker 02 Yep.
39:27 Dr. John Delony? And then it works up and it kicks up the nuclear reactor and the whole thing starts over again.
39:32 Speaker 02 Yeah.
39:33 Dr. John Delony? This is about you going and sitting with a professional trauma therapist and saying, I'm gonna let this, I'm gonna set my, I'm not giving my father and my childhood nervous system, I'm not carrying those cinder blocks around with me anymore. I need to set those down.
39:51 Dr. John Delony? And I'm telling you as a guy who's on the other side of that kind of healing, uh, bro, everything changes.
39:59 Speaker 02 Okay.
40:00 Dr. John Delony? My heart rate, my, my resting heart rate dropped about 10 beats a minute. Okay. When I tell you it changes at your nervous system level, how your metabolic systems operate, it changes you, but you gotta go do that work. Thanks for the call, man. Your, your honesty and courage is gonna help a lot of folks here. Thanks for the conversation, my man. I would be honored if six months from now, nine months from now, after you spend some time with a trauma therapist, I would love to hear about how you're feeling.
40:37 Dr. John Delony? My guess is your kids, your sons are not going to be able to stay off of their dad. You're gonna become a human jungle gym.
40:46 Dr. John Delony? You're gonna be their safe place.
40:50 Dr. John Delony? And that's when we start changing our family tree.
40:54 Dr. John Delony? We come back, a woman asks why her doctor recommended medication and rehab when she doesn't see herself as an alcoholic. We'll be right back.
41:05 Dr. John Delony? Winter is over. The sun is coming out earlier and staying out longer and it's awesome. And that also means it's time to rotate the closet. Poncho flannels and denims are going in the back and Poncho originals and ultralights are moving forward. No matter what time of year it is, I'm still almost always wearing Poncho shirts. I've been wearing them for years because they're the best. The original Poncho is that go anywhere performance shirt. It's lightweight, it's breathable, it's quick drying, it's built for real life. And the ultralight has the same great fit with an even lighter feel. And when it gets hot like it does in Tennessee, actually all over the country it's getting hot, that matters.
41:48 Dr. John Delony? Poncho shirts have stretch, so they move with you. And even though they're light and soft, they're really, really tough. And here's the deal. They also look sharp enough to wear to dinner, but they're comfortable enough to work outside in and to wear all day. If warmer weather has you ready to reshuffle your closet, I want you to go to ponchooutdoors.com/deloney and check out their amazing shirt styles. Get 10 bucks off your first purchase, just sign up with your email. That's ponchooutdoors.com/deloney.
42:20 Dr. John Delony? All right, let's go to Portland, Oregon and talk to Jenna. Hey Jenna, what's up?
42:25 Speaker 03 Well, a few weeks back, I heard you talking to a caller about microdosing GLP-1s and how they cut back in the noise in your head. But you had attributed it specifically to alcohol and I'd never heard that before. And I scheduled an appointment with my doctor and he immediately did an audit test and I came back as high risk. Rather than even discussing GLP-1s with me, he prescribed antabuse and alcohol counseling. Because he said that they don't prescribe GLP-1s through our insurance, but at the same time, it just like sent me into panic when that was the option that he offered.
43:10 Speaker 03 Idea of just cutting alcohol out completely and still having the voice in the back of my head was terrifying.
43:16 Dr. John Delony? Okay, so two important things here, okay? Number one, I want to make this so, so clear. I am in no way, shape, or form or fashion a medical doctor. His opinion trumps mine a thousand to one, okay? Number two, what you just described, the way you just described your relationship with alcohol, tells me you have a problem. Do you have a problem?
43:46 Speaker 03 I mean, I have a beer every day, sometimes two, sometimes three. I don't ever drink to get drunk. I don't like being drunk. I might accidentally get drunk once a year, but I do, like, at the end of the day, it's my signal that the day is over.
44:04 Dr. John Delony? Okay. What is the thought of coming up with other signals scare you?
44:14 Speaker 03 Well, I started working out a couple of months ago, and I work out 40s a week, and I was like, this is gonna take that need to have that beer at the end of the day away. And now, when I come home from the gym, I have that one beer. But I have that one beer instead of two beers.
44:30 Dr. John Delony? Okay, so why'd you go to the doctor?
44:33 Speaker 03 Um, when I heard that call, I, the reason I've never been able to stop drinking, I feel like, is because the voices, when I skip that drink, are so loud. Or when I buy less alcohol so that I don't have a beer at the end of the day, I'm counting the beers to make sure I have enough to get through the week and I don't have to ask my husband if it's cool if I go get more. So the idea of not having that constant chatter in my brain, having that turned down, I felt like it'd be easier to put space between me and alcohol.
45:15 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
45:16 Speaker 03 But the idea of, like, picking in abuse and not being able to drink at all, that's so scary.
45:22 Dr. John Delony? Yeah. But your challenge right now, this is gonna sound crazy, is not with alcohol. Your challenge is heading straight into those voices.
45:37 Dr. John Delony? Because two things are happening. One of two things is happening. Probably a mixture of both, but it's easy to just bifurcate it. Those voices may be right.
45:50 Dr. John Delony? Your relationships may be a mess. You may be just running on a treadmill in your life and don't have any purpose. You may be unhealthy. You may need to really deal with some old childhood traumas. Your marriage may be way unsafe. Check, check, check, check. Okay. So here's the thing. Those voices are right. And alcohol shuts them off. The last thing you want to do is immediately shut off your body's alarm systems. Because you're going to take the batteries out of the alarm, but your house is going to burn down around you.
46:32 Dr. John Delony? And so I'm 100% with your doctor here. I don't know the, like, Anabuse has a whole bunch of... By the way, for those of you who don't know, Anabuse is, it's a medication you take that when you drink alcohol, you become violently ill. It makes you, it makes the drink so awful for your body that you stay awake. Because it's like, it's, I mean, it's like touching a, like a, like a hot stove. I mean, it's just, makes you feel awful. But also a side effect. So I can't speak to anything around that, that, that drug.
47:10 Dr. John Delony? But I can tell you, you need to go, you need to go to a meeting.
47:17 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
47:20 Dr. John Delony? And you probably need to go see a professional therapist ASAP.
47:28 Dr. John Delony? Because your body's trying to get your attention.
47:33 Dr. John Delony? And you sound smart enough, and I don't mean that like an intelligence wise, but you sound like a very thoughtful person. And so I want to say back to you what you told me, okay?
47:47 Dr. John Delony? The thought of not having beer in my fridge scares me.
47:54 Dr. John Delony? I count alcohol, I count beers.
47:58 Dr. John Delony? So that I know, right?
48:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
48:05 Dr. John Delony? That tells me that alcohol is serving a very important role in your life.
48:13 Dr. John Delony? And I want to get to the bottom of what it's trying to protect me from.
48:20 Dr. John Delony? Or let me put it another way, the changes you're avoiding, they're gonna happen.
48:28 Dr. John Delony? If you're in an unsafe marriage, if your body is still trying to solve from historic trauma,
48:35 Dr. John Delony? if your job isn't safe,
48:38 Dr. John Delony? if you're operating life with no purpose, all of that ends up on the table. It just might be an attorney's office, it might be a rehab center where you're forced to go. Or it can be you choose to take your suitcase into a counselor's office, into an AA meeting and dump it out yourself, but it's coming out.
49:01 Speaker 03 I mean, I did outpatient when I was a teenager because I got caught with drugs.
49:07 Dr. John Delony? That's different.
49:09 Speaker 03 So I kind of felt like, you know, this has always been something I've had control over. And I didn't like meetings when I was younger.
49:17 Dr. John Delony? Of course you didn't, you were made to go. And by the way, drugs and alcohol were solving for something when you were a teenager.
49:24 Speaker 03 Yeah.
49:24 Dr. John Delony? Was home chaotic, unsafe?
49:27 Speaker 03 My mom was bipolar manic depressive.
49:29 Dr. John Delony? There you go.
49:30 Speaker 03 Things got really rough when I was like 13.
49:32 Dr. John Delony? Yeah, so they sent you to a rehab, they kicked the crutch out from under you.
49:37 Dr. John Delony? Right? And then they dropped you right back in the middle of the football game and said, keep playing.
49:42 Dr. John Delony? That's cruel to a teenager.
49:46 Dr. John Delony? I'm not saying you let teenagers continue to use drugs and drink, that's not what I'm saying, but you have to change the environment with what that makes drugs and alcohol an important tool and resource.
49:59 Dr. John Delony? Of course, meetings were miserable right then, like when you were a kid.
50:03 Dr. John Delony? You were forced to go.
50:06 Speaker 03 I didn't feel like I was one of them. I didn't feel like I was there for the same reason they were, and they weren't interested in being there, and I used drugs a couple of times, got caught and stopped.
50:19 Dr. John Delony? That's not where we are anymore.
50:21 Speaker 03 No.
50:26 Dr. John Delony? How old are you?
50:28 Speaker 03 I'm 40, or I will be.
50:31 Dr. John Delony? How much of this are you terrified of what it's actually going to mean about your marriage, and about potentially being lonely, and about potentially having to go recreate yourself at 41 years old?
50:42 Speaker 03 I'm lonely right now, but I think maybe that's part of what I'm scared of, is if I quit drinking, I have to reintroduce myself to my husband.
50:53 Dr. John Delony? You have to reintroduce yourself to you.
51:00 Dr. John Delony? And sometimes we're lonely because other people don't see and know us, but sometimes we're lonely because we don't let other people see and know us.
51:09 Dr. John Delony? And sometimes it's both.
51:13 Dr. John Delony? I need you to metabolize what I'm about to say, okay?
51:17 Speaker 03 Okay.
51:18 Dr. John Delony? You're worth a better life than this.
51:26 Dr. John Delony? You're worth having peace when you walk in your front door, you're worth your husband and your home being the safest place on the planet for you.
51:37 Dr. John Delony? You're worth coming home and laughing your butt off, not having to hide from your emotions in your day.
51:46 Dr. John Delony? You're worth having REM sleep, which alcohol destroys.
51:56 Dr. John Delony? You're worth joy.
52:02 Dr. John Delony? And you haven't had that in a long, long, long time.
52:06 Speaker 03 I don't do any of the fun stuff we used to do.
52:10 Speaker 03 We have kids.
52:11 Dr. John Delony? I know, but you don't think you're worth being fun with.
52:16 Speaker 03 Life is work.
52:19 Dr. John Delony? That's part of it.
52:23 Speaker 03 I'm gonna work two jobs and driving the kids to all their activities and put the workout in there and
52:33 Speaker 03 there isn't time for fun.
52:38 Speaker 03 That little beer at the end of the night is my little bit of fun.
52:42 Dr. John Delony? And if you've created a world
52:46 Dr. John Delony? that's the only moment you have, I get it.
52:53 Dr. John Delony? And I also get that being in a season where you got little kids and you got people running around and resources are tight and you and your spouse aren't connected. Y'all are living separate lives in the same house.
53:05 Dr. John Delony? Right? Like, I, I, I get it. I totally get it. I just want to tell you, I've sat with, I mean, I, I've talked to thousands of couples
53:17 Dr. John Delony? who have cleared the deck and said, "The marriage we had is over. Let's rebuild a new one." I can't tell you the number of people who have come out after rehab or stay in an inpatient rehab or who've started going to meetings who get their life completely back.
53:33 Dr. John Delony? Can't tell you the number of people I've talked to who have said, "Hey, hey, I'm not gonna let my kids' busyness dictate my marriage and my home. Me and my, me and my spouse, me and my partner are gonna, gonna be the anchor of this place. And y'all are gonna orbit around us, not the other way around." And it changes everything. The, the responsibilities stay the same, but the ethos in the house changes.
54:00 Dr. John Delony? It's like going to a job where the boss is just miserable and they suck. That same work, the same job can be a place of awesomeness if your boss rules and your coworkers are awesome. Right?
54:13 Speaker 03 Yeah.
54:17 Dr. John Delony? But I want you to hear me say, you can't see through any of that because right now you're looking through a cloud. You're looking through a glass darkly.
54:29 Dr. John Delony? And that's when you gotta trust people around you to say, "Hey, it's time to go see somebody."
54:36 Dr. John Delony? "I don't think you need to turn the voices down right now. I think you need to go listen to them." And right now, listening to them alone, that's a tall ask.
54:49 Speaker 03 They're just so loud.
54:50 Dr. John Delony? I know.
54:52 Dr. John Delony? I know. And they have to be because you keep drowning them out.
55:04 Dr. John Delony? Are you worth it?
55:06 Speaker 03 Yeah.
55:07 Dr. John Delony? Okay. Today's day one.
55:14 Speaker 03 Yeah.
55:15 Dr. John Delony? Today's day one.
55:20 Speaker 03 Alright.
55:22 Dr. John Delony? Here's your homework assignment. I want you to, before the day is over, I want you to have an appointment with an in-person therapist.
55:29 Speaker 03 Okay.
55:30 Dr. John Delony? And my preference for you would be if you found a trauma-informed therapist and give it two or three sessions, and if you don't feel safe enough to be completely honest about your childhood, about your marriage, about your relationship with yourself and your kids, then go find somebody else, okay?
55:44 Speaker 03 I'm generally an oversharer, so that shouldn't be a problem.
55:46 Dr. John Delony? Yeah, but you overshare to protect that sacred six inches of space.
55:55 Speaker 03 Push them away before they can push me away.
55:56 Dr. John Delony? Yeah, oversharing is a mechanism. It's not honesty.
56:03 Dr. John Delony? You can overshare information and never share how you feel about something.
56:09 Speaker 03 Yeah.
56:11 Dr. John Delony? That's what I mean about going and being honest.
56:14 Dr. John Delony? And tell your husband, "I'm gonna start making some significant changes and I hope you'll come with me." And be honest with him and say, "The story I'm making up in my head is, you're not gonna like me."
56:28 Speaker 03 He's the only person who's ever not asked me to stop drinking.
56:32 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
56:35 Dr. John Delony? It does it?
56:35 Speaker 03 My kids have.
56:37 Dr. John Delony? Okay. So today's day one, and by the end of the day, I want you to have found a meeting. If you're a real gangster, you'll go tonight.
56:46 Dr. John Delony? Your husband can do bedtimes, but you'll go tonight. Or you're gonna go early in the morning. You start your, you start your day early, find an early meeting in the morning. We're gonna start going. And it might, 12 steps may not be your thing over the long period of time.
57:00 Dr. John Delony? But it's not like it is in the movies.
57:03 Dr. John Delony? Can be a very warm, inviting, kind place where people who are doing life just as busy and fast as you are, come in and say, I'm powerless over this one and I'm worth more.
57:15 Dr. John Delony? Your doctor's right. And for anybody listening to this podcast.
57:20 Dr. John Delony? If I say something that's different from your doctor, maybe get a second opinion, but listen to your physician who knows you, your blood panels, knows medication, they are licensed, they are board certified, listen to them over me. I'm a podcaster.
57:38 Dr. John Delony? But do head towards healing. I'm proud of you, Jenna. Day one.
57:44 Dr. John Delony? On your 30 days, I want you to call back and we're gonna celebrate you. Might even see if I can make a 30 day chip or a 60 day chip. That'd be awesome. I'm really grateful for you. Game on. We'll be right back.
57:58 Dr. John Delony? As you can imagine, my house is filled with all kinds of rad stuff. All my hunting gear, all of my music stuff, my kids' art, my wife's art. We have so much cool stuff in our house, but I would say not the coolest, but almost the coolest stuff we have in our house is Cozy Earth gear. Our house is packed with Cozy Earth gear. Sheets, pajamas, blankets, socks, towels, all of it. Why is our house packed with it? Because it's amazing. I got this Cozy Earth comforter recently and it's big, but somehow it's not like hot and heavy. It's like a cloud. It helps regulate temperature so I stay comfortable throughout the night and I sleep better and I wake up feeling restored. It's just so comfortable. And I got Cozy Earth Essentials socks. Listen.
58:44 Dr. John Delony? These socks are amazing. They come in four lengths and they're all super comfortable. Cozy Earth also offers a 100 night sleep trial on all bedding and a 10 year warranty on everything else. So there's no risk filling your house with Cozy Earth gear. Go to cozylearth.com/deloney and use code deloney and you'll save up to 20% off your entire order. That's cozylearth.com, use code deloney. And if you get a post purchase survey, tell them you heard about Cozy Earth right here on the show. You're gonna love Cozy Earth taking over your home.
59:19 Dr. John Delony? All right, we're back. All right, so I finished. All right, this is for Ben, who's running the board on the show. All right, Ben, listen.
59:28 Dr. John Delony? I was late to the game by about a decade. I started, my son and I started Stranger Things, season one, about a month and a half or two months ago. We just finished season five. I, I am in a deep state of mourning and just sadness. I felt like, like if you want to see my childhood minus the upside down, that's my childhood. Riding around on bikes, causing problems, walkie talkies, adventures, forts in the woods, fighting, like all of it. That was it. The one thing that was a part of my childhood was Dungeons and Dragons.
1:00:04 Speaker 04 It's a shame.
1:00:06 Dr. John Delony? Or, okay, I was kissing girls, but whatever. All right, so.
1:00:11 Dr. John Delony? I need you to teach me as concisely as you can, but as passionately as you can. What is a campaign? What does that mean? Because, because it looks like in the show, like each person makes up their own story. But I don't know how much of the story they make up and then it's just left to chance because of dice rolls and stuff? Or do they have to have the ending already, like complete? Like, how does it work? What's a campaign?
1:00:36 Speaker 04 I find that, so a campaign, I mean, the simplest way to put it is it is a story. It's not everyone telling their own story. It's the DM, the dungeon master. Who's kind of the storyteller who has kind of their own, you know, story arc that they're gonna go through. But like you said, like the dice, the decisions the player makes, like they change the story, so. It's very rare that a, an ending of a campaign, which is just multiple sessions of the same plot line. Right? We're going to one town, we're gonna fight a dragon. The next session, we all get together, we're gonna then fight this other thing because we killed the dragon, now this thing is after us, so it progresses, but...
1:01:17 Dr. John Delony? How do we know, how do we know when the other dragon pops up? Is that the storyteller?
1:01:21 Speaker 04 The DM.
1:01:22 Dr. John Delony? Or is that the DM? Or is it like a card gets turned over and you're like, "Ah, there's another dragon!"
1:01:26 Speaker 04 It depends on how you run it, but like, some people do pen and paper, some people have maps, battle maps, right? Where you can see your, your characters on a map and you can say, "Oh." The DM will say, "Hey, you, you see something rustling in the bushes around this area." If you're doing just pen and paper in your brain, you can just say, "I walk over there, what do I find?" And then the DM will walk you through what that is, a creature approaches, so...
1:01:51 Dr. John Delony? How do you keep the DM from just making it up as they go?
1:01:54 Speaker 04 The DM is making it up as they go. It's literally, I mean, sometimes they'll have like plans, they'll, they'll say like, "Uh, the DM had kinda this like outline that they brought to the session." Uh, and then, so they know that you're gonna encounter a dragon and then sometimes it just goes off the rails, cuz players are like, "Hey, I wanna go left," and the, the DM is like, "Well, I thought you were gonna go right, but I'm gonna make up something on the spot because you chose to go left instead of what I was planning."
1:02:24 Dr. John Delony? My favorite thing about this discussion is I just watched Kelly die in real time.
1:02:29 Speaker 04 Well, y'all, it's a fun game, I'm telling you! Look, I'm married, I, I turned out great! I played D and D, y'all! It's a fun game!
1:02:38 Dr. John Delony? I've got a job, I've got a family!
1:02:41 Speaker 04 Yeah. But that's, it's just, it's oral storytelling, right? It's, it's the oldest form of entertainment, that's what D and D is.
1:02:49 Dr. John Delony? I agree. And it sounds like people get to participate in the story, like, choose your own adventure in real time.
1:02:54 Speaker 04 Yes. Yep.
1:02:56 Speaker 02 Yeah, there's an element of improv.
1:02:58 Dr. John Delony? Oh, and then the other techno nerd pops in, "End." Kelly, you're sandwiched.
1:03:06 Speaker 03 I know.
1:03:07 Dr. John Delony? I'm having a great time with this. Okay, here's the thing.
1:03:11 Dr. John Delony? I've spent my entire life rolling my eyes. But the Stranger Things kids, they did pique my interest. So I'm gonna commit to a campaign at some point this year. You gotta invite me over. Dude, I'll DM it. Let's go. I can't call you a dungeon master. I'm just not there yet. I can't. Baby steps. Baby steps. Um, but, thank you for sharing your expertise and your wisdom. Anytime, John. Kelly, um, I saw you wielding a margarita machine. We're gonna need to crank that sucker up, because I don't know what just happened. Love you guys, bye.
Previous My Irrational Fear of Spending Money Is Ruining Our Marriage Next I’m Married, but It Doesn’t Feel Like It Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated