Gilbert Arenas: 3x NBA All-Star how it started to how it ended, his costly mistake and biggest regret, 60 points vs Kobe Bryant, rebounding from rock bottom, fatherhood, Lebron, Bronny James criticism and turning despair into discussion on his podcast

"It really hurt... It was a toll on me. I'm not even gonna lie, I really hated the world." Gilbert Arenas In a conversation covering more than just sports, this impactful discussion evolves into life lessons, reflections, advice for handling adverse situations and how finding closure is possible even when you can’t see the light in life’s darkest moments. In our latest episode of The Pivot, three-time NBA All-Star, Gilbert "Agent Zero" Arenas sits down with Ryan, Fred, and Channing to open up about his upbringing, controversial career, personal struggles, climbing back from rock bottom, parenting and the future of the NBA. Known for his raw honesty and larger-than-life personality, Arenas takes the guys through his journey, sharing Pivotal moments that shaped him, on and off the court: From the highs of his All-Star days to the lows of losing it all. You’ve heard the stories and seen the headlines, now Gilbert is sharing his side and perspective from living it to reflecting on it. Gilbert is well aware how a split second decision changed it all for him and how something he didn’t intend to become a moment turned into an entire movement. Specifically, he explains the 2009 gun incident with then teammate, Javaris Crittenton, that changed both their basketball paths forever as Gil opens up on the one part of it, that he wishes he could take back. He feels regret years later not just for derailing his own career but also for messing up a young player’s path, which he holds himself accountable for as well as the impact and toll it took on his own life. Gilbert keeps it real and speaks from the heart, hoping that his true feelings and thoughts continue to help others right their wrongs and alleviate the opportunity of making similar choices. Whether it be public feuds, personal turmoil or career scandals, a media frenzy overshadowed Gilbert’s stellar play for most of his NBA time and the years following. He reminisces about studying Kobe Bryant, the night he scored 60 points against the icon and reveals the intricate moments of his game-plan that no one knew at the time. Humbling to his core, he opens up to Ryan, Fred, and Channing on the emotional toll life took on him, the grind to the top to his costly mistake and how depression pushed him to step away from the game he loved so much. Going through a public divorce was not easy but, Gilbert emphasizes how being a father gives him purpose and clarity through the chaos, as he says one of the lessons he likes to share with his kids is to put them in situations they can fail so they learn how to survive and rise above tough times. His everyday approach to life stems from his upbringing and how he believed in better times by appreciating the little things and understanding the future his father strived to give him. Even when his father didn’t have the financial means, he still provided stability and support by never giving up and never walking away. After having Kwame Brown on our show a year ago, the guys had to ask Gilbert what the real scenario between the two of them is and where it all stems from. Gilbert sets the record straight, from playoff drama to their current back and forth, he addresses the misconceptions and why he feels he became a scapegoat in Brown's story. Channing and Fred ask Gilbert's take on LeBron and Bronny James, a topic he's been outspoken about, as Channing has made his thoughts abundantly clear recently while Fred and Ryan continue to share their overall feelings. To no surprise, Gilbert has some strong words for people critiquing Bronny and reminds everyone how rare it is to see what LeBron has accomplished. Tap in now for an episode so intriguing that it will have you re-thinking some of your own perspective and a reminder to never judge by looking at something or someone from the outside. Hit the Subscribe button on YouTube now as we approach 1Million subscribers! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:32Ryan Clark?

  Damn, what's up, man? What up, brother?

• 0:34Channing Crowder?

  I'm on no chill.

• 0:35Ryan Clark?

  How you doing?

• 0:36Speaker 04

  There we go.

• 0:37Ryan Clark?

  How you doing?

• 0:38Speaker 04

  Good, good.

• 0:38Ryan Clark?

  Thank you for having me.

• 0:40Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 0:40Ryan Clark?

  You know, three time old all star in the place I played ball in in Washington. Damn, Agent Zero. Man, you had a ton of nicknames, actually. Did you give them all to yourself, Gil?

• 0:50Speaker 04

  No, not none of them. None of them. Yeah, I went from Zero to Hero. They gave me that in at Arizona. And then Agent Zero came from when I got to DC. I used to have, was it MySpace?

• 1:04Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:04Speaker 04

  So I had MySpace and my name was Black President 01. And then you know how you had the top eight? I had someone rigging where I had like top 50? All girls. And then it says Secret Service. So somebody was like, oh, you're like an agent. You're like Agent Zero. And I was like,

• 1:22Speaker 04

  I like it. I like I like the sound of that.

• 1:25Channing Crowder?

  That ruined me.

• 1:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:46Ryan Clark?

  What's up, Pivot fam? This episode is brought to you exclusively by NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV. December football is here and you can watch every game every Sunday when you bundle NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV. Terms and embargoes apply. Before we get into it, man, Gilbert Arenas, welcome to the Pivot. It's Fred Taylor. It's Channing Crowder. I'm Ryan Clark. Pivot fam, thank you for always pivoting with us. So. Gil, you have your own show, right? And you know how it works, you know? In the arena, you gotta do your research.

• 2:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:16Ryan Clark?

  Right? You gotta get ready. And so, here I am, yesterday, before I go to my son's game, getting ready. And I was like, "Golly, why are there so many actual articles about Gilbert Arenas being a hater?" Do you consider yourself, in the way you sort of analyze sports or your commentary, do you consider yourself a hater?

• 2:38Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no. I'm unbiased. And I don't think anybody actually understands the definition of just actually being unbiased of something. So, I'm a, I'm a diehard Kobe fan, right? He's my number one player of all time, right? I didn't like Jordan because my dad was a Jordan fan. I was a Penny fan back then, right? And then I played against LeBron, right? So, I defend LeBron. I don't need to defend, you know, Jordan. He's the number one, right? I don't, there's no, there's nothing you can tell. I got, I got beat up too many times for his fucking shoes to put him number two or three. Like, that's not gonna happen, right? So, but, so, I don't need to defend number one, right?

• 3:22Speaker 04

  I defend LeBron because when people say LeBron's name, they throw dirt on it to put him where they're gonna put him. Like, you don't need to throw dirt on nobody's. Like, if you have him three, you just be like, "Yeah, three, got 40,000 points, blah, blah." You don't go, "Well, he's three because he ain't got no bag." You know, like, nah, you can't, you can't do that. So, when I, when I say something, they think I'm hating on it when it's like, you can't hate if it's just a fact.

• 3:45Channing Crowder?

  But the psychology of it, because it's not like you say the names. The no chill Gil. Like, when you really just say, and hell with basketball conversation. Like, you be telling people about theyself all the time.

• 3:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:57Channing Crowder?

  We gonna get into some of the stuff you've said to people. But, like, we're back, young, young, you know what I'm saying? Just growing up, like, what was that created? Because I tell the story where I started saying, "Y'all can all go to hell", when I saw an article about myself and I got arrested a couple of times at Florida. And they said, "You should leave this animal in the cage until Saturday afternoon and let him out and let him play."

• 4:21Speaker 04

  Woo!

• 4:22Channing Crowder?

  And that was the click of me being like, "Man, I'm gonna say whatever and do whatever I want, because y'all ain't gonna respect me anyway." Y'all, y'all call me an animal. What, what was the moment in your life, because people aren't born like you? What was, what, what created No Chill Gil?

• 4:36Speaker 04

  Where I understood media was the 2005, 06 season. I'm averaging 29 points a game.

• 4:45Speaker 04

  Our team is like 4th or 5th in the East. And All-Star voting comes around. And the Detroit Pistons started using that, "Oh, it's about winning, you know, we should, we should reward winning." "Okay, cool, cool, okay, alright, I'm 4th in scoring and my team is winning, cool." And then when the list came out...

• 5:09Speaker 04

  Okay. How is, you know, how is, you know, Paul here, his team is last? Bosch, the team is last, like, it doesn't even make any sense. How do you go from scorer 1, 2, 3, skip 4, then 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10? Right, it just didn't make sense. So, what ends up happening is...

• 5:28Speaker 04

  I started saying what I'm gonna do. Like, "Alright, I'm about to be the East Coast Assassin, everybody who voted, who didn't vote for me, I'm busting y'all ass." Right, period. I averaged the same exact thing that I averaged when they didn't vote for me. And then I'm all team, I'm the second best point guard in the league. Didn't make sense, right? Then I realized it's the words, you say it and do it, everybody respects it. If you do it in silence, no one cares. Once I understood that, then that's when the personality was created.

• 6:00Fred Taylor?

  Which is crazy, because we talk about it all the time, I ain't say a fucking thing. And a lot of my play went straight under the radar, but that's another part. December 7th, 2006, you guys were talking about Mike, Kobe, LeBron. You got LeBron at number 3?

• 6:16Speaker 04

  2.

• 6:16Fred Taylor?

  Number 2. Is that because you put 60 on Kobe on that day?

• 6:20Speaker 04

  Nah, nah, nah. As a basketball player, right, if I just say, "Who's the better, who..."

• 6:28Speaker 04

  Who made it look better? Obviously Kobe, right? The bag is crazy, right? Like, the work ethic is crazy. When Kobe was supposed to be the king at the top of the heel, right? 2004-2005 season, right? Shaq just left, right? Because he was behind Shaq the whole time. And it was his time to be all world. LeBron James was challenging him in that moment in time, and he was only 21, right? So, as a basketball player, we're looking at Kobe like, "Yeah, you about to destroy." You destroyed individually, but there's a 21-year-old who's challenging you still,

• 7:12Speaker 04

  and you're not knocking him out of the way. Right out of 19 games y'all played after Shaq left, the kid was 16 and 3 against you. And you're supposed to be the dude, right? When you averaged 35, runner-up to that MVP, wasn't you? It was actually LeBron. LeBron gets swept in the playoffs or in the championship. He's in the championship with a horrible team. You have a horrible team, he has a horrible team, but he's in the championship. You win your MVP, right? When you were supposed to follow that back up, he took that back-to-back from you. You won a championship that year, he won MVP. You won back-to-back championships, he won back-to-back MVP.

• 7:55Speaker 04

  So, the year, the time where you were supposed to be fighting Jordan for who was better, he was fighting you for who was better now. And it was hard to say, Dave, as a basketball player, "Yeah, you look better doing it, but y'all got the same team, both horrible teams, but he's doing something with it, right?" And that was the thing, like, as a basketball player, who am I going to pick on my team first? Like, if we went to the park, and we don't know anybody, and we just know these two, it was like... I'm gonna go with LeBron because no matter what we got on here, we're gonna win with it. Yeah, you go out of 21, you gonna have 20 of it.

• 8:38Speaker 04

  You have 20, I don't wanna guard you, but I'd rather, I would rather take my chances with him. He probably gonna get us to the promised land. We might win this game. And that was the difference as a basketball, just as a player, I'm taking LeBron as a player.

• 8:52Ryan Clark?

  Speaking of a promised land, I wanna go back pretty far because I think sometimes we don't understand what journey a person had to go on to get to certain places in his life. You and your father took a cross-country trip to get here and in reading about it and researching it, you didn't really know that you were homeless at times. And some of the things your father had to go through just to put food on the table and ways you had to take care of yourself. Can you just take me through what those experiences were like with him and how that made you guys closer?

• 9:30Speaker 04

  To be honest, like I don't really, you know, like if people can remember like back, I didn't, because just me being, you know, just a happy person, I never looked at our situations as being horrible, right? It's like, oh, we live at the park.

• 9:47Speaker 04

  I live at a park, right? You know what I mean? Like I get the swings all day. I get to run in the field all day. You know what I mean? I get to basketball gym. It just, it didn't register that we was like poor or homeless, like you homeless, right? I can go back to Florida, live with grandma. She got six bedrooms, right? You know what I mean? So, and that's what I end up doing, right? Where, you know, you know, I'm on the phone with grandma. I was like, oh yeah, we, you know, stayed at this gym, you know, a whole bunch of people here. And then she's like, no, bring him back home, right? So, I didn't really get the sense that we was like struggling because that struggle, he was struggling, right? So, like, you know, like if you're a great parent, your kids don't feel, you know, the struggle and I didn't feel it.

• 10:29Ryan Clark?

  How much has that played into, like being able to say, you know, you didn't feel it? You know, they called your son a prodigy, right, Elijah? How much of how your father was with you has gone into the way that you parent your children?

• 10:43Speaker 04

  It stopped me from, you know, when we go through situations with, you know, our exes and stuff and it's easy to quit. Like I'm good. I don't, I don't wanna deal with this problem. It ain't worth it. That never registered. Because the example was a guy who raised me. Like, he was a single father. So that's all I knew, him being there. Like, him taking me to every game, him buying food, him hustling. He ain't got no money to eat. You know, we got 10 bucks. You know, he giving me seven of it, right? So that's all I knew. So to register like, just be a deadbeat, it didn't. Right, so it was easy to just be a father because I had one that showed me that.

• 11:24Channing Crowder?

  Do you think you dealt with the rags to riches? Great? Because like you're saying, you was living your grandma, you was living with your dad and, you know, at the park. And then, I always say it, I don't want to count nobody's pockets, but they gave you a couple hundred million. How did you deal with that? And do you, if you could go back, did you deal with that situation, rags to riches situation?

• 11:45Speaker 04

  You know what's funny? My teammates used to say, "Man, you the lamest rich person I've ever seen." I was very fortunate because as a child, I didn't, I didn't need for nothing. Right, I had every Jordan I needed, right? Every jersey I wanted, I got. Right, so when I got to the NBA, there was no, "Oh, I didn't get this when I was a child. Let me, you know, go out here and splurge." I didn't have those, those moments, right? In, in college, you know, I got a GS 400. Right, so, like, my poorest year was my first year in the NBA. Like, yo, this is poor. Hey, like, but I got a, I got a girl, I got two dogs, and I'm on like $400 a month. Like, I'm poor, I had to sleep in the gym. Right, so that's my life.

• 12:30Speaker 04

  As an NBA player, I was considered poor. But what happened is I, I got success very early from hard work. Right, so me sitting in the gym, right, because I didn't have enough gas to go back home, you know, throughout the, the month. So there was times where I'm gonna just sleep at the gym, got the gym, got the, you know, weight room, got all the food and snacks there, got the movie theater where I can sleep on the couches. Because I was successful doing that. Warning things didn't, it didn't register. Right, you know, I bought a house, splurged a little bit, but it wasn't, I didn't go through where, you know, I'm trying to impress people, buying a whole bunch of jewelry, going to the clubs and, you know, I had my little phases for a month or two, but it wasn't,

• 13:14Speaker 04

  so I didn't have the rags and riches lifestyle.

• 13:17Channing Crowder?

  Do folks know that? Cause I ain't, I ain't never heard this story. You hear the story about the dude seeing me at the gym like, um, Ocho, Ozosinko all that, like, I don't know if you, like- That's cause Chad tells everybody. But it's crazy, I didn't even know that story of that, because when you see it, it's the cha, the change, it's the riding up in the, you know, the Bentley's and all.

• 13:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:35Channing Crowder?

  Do people know that story? And the young, the young dudes out there, do they know how you grind? Cause it was like, I would think of, he just walked out there and balls, like, nigga, ISO, give me an ISO, I'm about to eat you.

• 13:46Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:47Channing Crowder?

  But that was a lot of work to lead up to that.

• 13:49Speaker 04

  Everything is a lot of work. And I, I think what happens is, is because no one tells you that this is what they did, no one sees it, right? Cause no one really cares about, you know, the, the path, they just, what is the, what is the results? Right, no one, no one sat with me, like, I'm sitting in the gym not playing, like, watching, like, you know, a young, uh, young, uh, young fella sit on the sideline, right? Running bleachers every goddamn day. No one's seeing it, right? No one cares, no one wanna hear about it. Like, as soon as you get in, what are you doing? And, you know, me, I had, I really had to grind to the point where I even quit on the team. I'm in Denver, I'm in Denver, we know the altitude.

• 14:28Speaker 04

  I'm not playing, I'm, I'm, I got my suit on, but I just, like, like, uh, I just heard, you know, what Kobe was doing. So now, what ends up happening is I'm hearing stories about Kobe, and I'm watching my team, they is not matching, it's not matching, like, he doing what? And I'm looking at these players like, nah, they, they come in, practice at 11, they come in at 10:55, 11:15, shit, Mookie Bay like 11:30, right? Right, like, this is the NBA I see. You telling me Kobe's there at 5 o'clock? He's at the, the, the gym when it's on game day, 3 o'clock? Like you, that's what's making him great? I bet. So I remember I'm in Denver. I come to the gym like at 3 o'clock, took a cab there.

• 15:13Speaker 04

  Doing all the bleacher work, just running line drills like, oh, I got, I got another mission now. And I remember the trainer came in. I'm, I'm dead, puddles of water everywhere. And he was, all right, Rook, time to work. And I literally like, oh, no, man, listen, I've been here since 3 o'clock. I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. And then he hit me with, that's why you was the 31 pick? Because this, this, and this, and this, and I lost it. I, I literally lost it like, what the fuck do you mean? 31 pick? I'm the best, I'm the hardest worker on this team. That's why y'all suck, that's why y'all losing? Y'all don't have no work ethic, y'all don't, like, I let loose. I, I, I actually, I don't even be a part of this organization.

• 15:58Speaker 04

  I quit. Tell that to Coach, what you gonna do? I'm already on IR, it can't be no worse. I'm number 15 right now, right? Don't call me no more and literally shut it, I'm done. I'm not working with you, nah, cuz what y'all doing ain't winning. I know what winning is, I heard what winning is, I came from Wigan organization in college. This ain't winning, I'm done, I'm cooled on y'all. And I quit. Couple of days later, god damn it, I'm starting to play. Right, so it just, overnight it just turned. Because probably they were just saying, all right, we're gonna prove you, you're not ready. But all the work I was doing that whole time got me prepared. I wasn't, I wasn't ready at the beginning of the season.

• 16:39Speaker 04

  It was too, it was too fast, and I'm, I was the fastest player in the league. But it was too fast, the way everyone moving was too fast, and I didn't know how to adjust to it.

• 16:48Fred Taylor?

  A lot of us in sports, football, basketball, namely those two sports, a lot of us get it out the mud. You know, RC mentioned your homelessness, living out of cars, living in parks. And you had to come up the hard way. Your son, I'm interested in knowing what the conversations are like with your kids. Because a lot of times people tell me, my kids have this, this, this feeling of entitlement. Where they kinda sandbag and, you know what I'm saying? They're a little bit lazy or whatever. But your son is a, is a phenom, like, he's just amazing in everything he's doing right now. How do you get him or keep him motivated to go out there? Or do you have to even, you know, push him?

• 17:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, you gotta put him in situations where they're, they're, they're meant to fail. Right? And, you know, I told him, I said, you know, you show him all the athletes and their kids. And I said, the difference is, the kids from the hood, right? They're playing off of fear, right? Fear of being, they don't want to be in this situation no more. So their work ethic is coming from, I don't want to be here anymore. You don't have that situation, so you can only fight that with love. You have to love it, right? Meaning, the accolades don't matter, the money don't matter. None of it matters because you're gonna put in the work because you just love to put in this work. That's the only way you're gonna make it, right?

• 18:11Speaker 04

  Which they don't understand that the kids, so it's like, alright, I'm gonna play you up. You're gonna be playing against, you know, the 15, 16s and you have to go hard, right? You're, you're, you're easy pickings out there, right? So even when it was like, team him up with a team or put him by himself, right? I gotta put you by yourself, so you're the best player on the court. But you're gonna be neutralized because they're gonna play five on one, four on one, triple team, quadruple team. So you don't have no break. So you have to create this tiger-like instinct just for survival, right? And that's what I had to do with him.

• 18:46Fred Taylor?

  You talk about love for the game. Is that why you, Channing, you hundred million dollar contract? You know, you were lights out in the league. On the end, you went to play for Shanghai.

• 18:57Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:57Fred Taylor?

  Like, did you love the game at that moment? Is that why you went over there? I'm sure the pay wasn't amazing.

• 19:02Speaker 04

  When I went to Shanghai, didn't love it. I was trying to find a love again, right? You know, after going through the gun situation and when you feel the world turns on you, right? You don't have the passion or love for it anymore, right? And you start hating it. And that's where it got, you know, when I, when I, that little part of my last year in Washington, going to Orlando, right? Mentally, I was, I checked out. When I went to Shanghai, even though I got hurt, just seeing pure love. Right, you know, you go out there, there's no guns, there's none of that. It's just, oh my God, Gil, let's go, photo, photo. Like it's just, you're just seeing. I don't know why I said like that.

• 19:47Speaker 04

  Photo, photo, right? You just, it was just so much love to the point where like, yo, I think I'm ready to mentally get back. And that's what the Shanghai thing was for me, just trying to find, you know, the purpose of, you know, basketball again.

• 20:03Ryan Clark?

  But Gil, you had that love in, in Washington. I was, you know, I was there 04, 05, playing with Washington. And you were the fun dude, the guy that brought joy to the game, that played the game that way. The city loved you. And to the point to where I remember certain writers defending the Javaris situation and saying that that's not Gil. And then it was some of the actions afterwards and some of the ways you did some things where it looked like the tide started to turn in the way the people turned on you. How difficult was it to go from the guy everybody loved, the hooper that brought joy to a city, to the person that's character was questioned time and time again?

• 20:48Speaker 04

  It really hurt because, you know, back then, you know, you're reading and you're reading like, you're seeing your name in malice. Right, oh, you know, this is an evil dude, this is the type like, like, I mean, worst case scenario, I'm like Dennis the Menace, right? It's just fun, right? Like, I'm like, that's, that's what this was. Horrible decision, but it wasn't like, I'm coming in there blazing guns and shit. Like, no, that wasn't me, that was never no intentions. It was, I, I wanted to call his bluff. I didn't think you're gonna do what you're gonna do, right? We're friends, like, you know what I mean? That's my guy. We, we eat dinner together, we're in each other's room, that's my guy. So this is not no malice, I just wanted to see him staying ten toes down, right?

• 21:33Speaker 04

  To read that this is what it was and who you was, it really, it, it was a toll on me. And I'm not even gonna lie, like, I really hated the world. Right, it's like, whoa, wait a minute, everything I did for everyone? Right, taking pay cuts for the team, 16 million, like, you know, you need your money. I'm thinking about everybody. You need your money, you need your money. Okay, the only way to even do that is if I have to make this and boo. Like, I'm sitting there calculating, doing all this stuff, injuries, coming back for teammates, and, and this is what everyone thinks of me. Oh, I'm good. Right, that's where I grew my hair out. I don't want to be on y'all billboards. Y'all not gonna put this face on the billboards no more. And I wish I remember when I went to Orlando. I was throwing up every day. The, the ideal of playing on the court and y'all can judge me, didn't like it. Right, oh, Gil, the Rangers

• 22:17Speaker 04

  had 20, you know, you know, 20 points, he saved three babies, you know, this is the guy that had guns in the locker room. Like, oh my god. Right? Like, this is what we talking about still? It was just, it was just one of those things where it was like, I'll rather just not play basketball so you can't talk about me no more. Right? I don't care what it is. You can't say locker room guy if you can't see me no more. And that was one of the reasons I walked away. It had nothing to do with, oh, he's blackball. I walked away because I don't, I don't want to do something great for you to use, this is the guy who brought guns to the locker room. Why ain't y'all just throw hands? Because, like, he tried you, you tried him, you want to do him? Let's fight, let's roll around this carpet, the dude's going, you know what I'm saying? And whoever start bleeding, they gonna stop, and y'all gonna have a beer later on.

• 23:00Speaker 04

  Because that, it wasn't even on that energy. It wasn't, it had nothing, it had nothing to do with me and him. Right? He's, he's losing money, he has, he's, he's going, he's going in y'all business. And I said, all right, come on, man, come on, let them figure that out. You don't need to jump in there. And then his anger came towards me. I'm like, oh, that's what we on? Bet, I bet you won't do it. And that's, that's what that was. So it wasn't like me and him was going at it, we having problems for that level. It's like, yo, just let them figure that shit out. I know you mad you losing money right now. You know, and the pocket's getting a little thin. Right? You getting your head beat in, it's just one of those trips. That was my energy. I'm just making fun of them and- He got in his feelings. He got in his feelings, and I'm like, well, I gotta see you do this there. You

• 23:42Speaker 04

  know what I mean? It's, we still in the locker room point where, you know, you're still challenging everybody's position, so I gotta, you know, if I, if I back down to you, they gonna ask for the ball. We not doing that today.

• 23:56Speaker 04

  Ah, you know, that's the locker room, man. You know, you, you know, you sit there and somebody say, man, pass the ball and you start passing it. What you gonna say?

• 24:04Fred Taylor?

  Pass it to me.

• 24:05Speaker 04

  Pass the ball and I start, what you gonna say?

• 24:07Fred Taylor?

  Pass it to me.

• 24:08Speaker 04

  So you gotta, you know, you gotta stop that shit early. Yeah, you just wanna tighten them up. Yeah, you gotta tighten it up. So it's like you challenged me. No, I gotta say, you stand on that young fella. And that's what it was like. That was the worst thing I ever did. The guns in the locker room, nah, I don't give a about none of that, right? That we, I was, I was bringing them shits in, shooting paintballs at people. I didn't give a. Making a young player stand on something he, he wasn't ready to stand or he shouldn't be in that position. There was no way I should have been challenging him to make a decision. Challenge the star player.

• 24:43Speaker 04

  And if you don't, you're gonna look bad in front of the teammates. If you do, you're gonna look fa- bad in front of the organization. That was a horrible decision as a vet. Like, I never did it before. I usually let the vets, but there was no way after he said, well, you know, I would do this. I should have said, well, oh, well.

• 24:59Speaker 06

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• 25:29Ryan Clark?

  What was it about the situation, about him, about you in that moment, that when Javaris does say, this is what I'm going to do, why couldn't you be the bigger man at that time? Because from what you're telling me, you had been the bigger man so many times. I'm gonna make sure you have your money. I'm gonna make sure you're okay. In that situation, you obviously made a different decision from the way you had always led. So Javaris Crenington says, I'm gonna do this, and you felt in that moment, I had to make him stand on it, so much so that it carries over

• 26:03Speaker 04

  Two days later.

• 26:04Ryan Clark?

  to the locker room gun situation.

• 26:06Speaker 04

  I can't pinpoint this was the reason.

• 26:11Speaker 04

  Because I can't remember like what I was thinking back then, but it was around the same time with the Shaq rumor. Not gonna lie, like.

• 26:19Ryan Clark?

  The Shaq Kobe rumor?

• 26:20Speaker 04

  No, Shaq, my girlfriend at the time rumor.

• 26:23Ryan Clark?

  Gotcha.

• 26:24Speaker 04

  Right, so like when it broke, I didn't know nothing about it. He's the one who had to tell me why everybody was giggling and sniggling. Right, so he was in there where I'm making a call to Shaq and all them, trying to figure out what's going on.

• 26:35Ryan Clark?

  Wow.

• 26:36Speaker 04

  Probably about a month later, when he's, the, the sound of how he's sounding, it made me think, oh, he thinks I'm.

• 26:44Ryan Clark?

  I'm a bitch.

• 26:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, and I, I think that's what that was. I can't pinpoint it, but it was, it would be the only reason. Because no matter what people said, I didn't really care. But I think because he was, he was my guy and he knew my feelings and you know, how I felt that day and all that, you know what I mean? And I think the way he said it sounded like, oh, you, you, you. Right, and I, and I, like if I had to, if someone said you gotta put something on it, I would say, I would say, ah, probably that situation.

• 27:15Ryan Clark?

  I, I will say this too, though. When you feel like it's your guy trying you in a group of people, it does make you react differently. You know, I, I, I've been there where I know a person personally and I'm like, you actually ain't even like that. So if you try me, you must think I'm a hoe.

• 27:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:34Ryan Clark?

  Right, so there's something that's happened in our circle or through our relationship where you believe you could get this over on me. So now I have to prove it, and I think so many times that ego involved in that situation is happening right now. And then when you get away from it, you start to think a little more clearly. But I totally understand.

• 27:53Speaker 04

  It was, it was, it was because, ah, like it was just the only thing like, uh, like I, I take, like I wish I can take back. That, it was that day, right? It, it's just that one day, like I don't care if it, it, like I pulled a gun on somebody else and then. You know, shit happens. I just, that day, because who he was at that time, a young kid trying to figure out how to be a pro. Like, when we talk about young kids trying to be pros, he was the only player, only young player that actually wanted to learn how to be one. Watch film, this is what we looking at, this is how we do it, this is how you come to the gym, this is like, you know, trying to figure out how to clean up his outside life, right?

• 28:37Speaker 04

  You know, to understand like, how do you get away from, you know, these type of guys, right? Make yourself busier, right? You know, you got three cars and you're on your rookie deal. Nah, man, you don't need that. Who are you impressing? You Javaris Creighton, the girls already know you. You go to the club, you getting it anyway, right? I mean, you gonna get the leftovers from me? That's still a dime. That's still a ten. You're a half that bell. So, you know, I'm just trying to teach him how to be that. And that moment, I took that away from him.

• 29:10Fred Taylor?

  Damn. But ultimately, that, that situation sort of what defines your career, your basketball career. And, but it didn't have to be that way. From the stories that I've read, which is the 50 games came from an incident that happened in Detroit, a photo.

• 29:26Speaker 04

  Uh, Philly.

• 29:28Fred Taylor?

  Philly, where you did, made the pistol gesture. How, how accurate is that? And, and really, it's similar to what Ja, what happened with Ja, because he kind of slapped the league in the face by doing it again. And they had laid on the law. Is that similar to why Stern gave you the 50?

• 29:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, so, it made sense for me, right? It, like detrimental, emotional, it was, it was that, it was that play for me. And they were right. I found out that the way the story was leaked, like, I pulled the gun on him, right? That, the way the story was leaked, right? I found out that it was from someone close.

• 30:05Speaker 04

  So my emotions at the time got the better of me. So I'm like, oh, this what we, oh, this what we doing? All right, bet. Let me go ahead and make a mockery of it then. So, you know, talk to the teammates, oh, this is what I want to do, you know, like even given Sunday. You know, when they score a touchdown, they throw the bomb, we do this. So I'm gonna come out there and we're gonna hit y'all with the pop, pop, pop. And then y'all do all the little, you know what I mean? So obviously, you know, I had that, that rapport with the teammates where they're gonna participate. You know, so I did it. And then, you know, when I got suspended, you know, and we had the meeting with, um, Stern. Right? I did all my research. So I'm like, Jabar, trust, I got us, we good, right? He only gonna give us like three games, most seven is all I'm accepting. So we go to the meeting, right? You know, me. Easy.

• 30:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm hitting them with, we good, trust me. Trust me, dawg. Right? So I'm doing all the talking. So, you know, Stern, Adam Silver, right? Stern was like, you know, oh, man, you did good, you know, for the league, you know, you, you one of our featured players. You know, you need to get your knee right, you know, but, you know, this thing right now is a big thing and we need to get you out of the, the media, media, because you're not, you're not, you're not letting go of it. And he was like, so I'm, I'm thinking about, uh, 50 games. What? 50 game? Oh, hell no. No, I got this. Hey, um, I read all the gun rules, right? Unloaded guns in a locker room is no different than guns in a car, right?

• 31:36Speaker 04

  It's, you know, league, you know, property, car. Plane, bus, right? Which you already got examples of. Plane, one game. Second time offender, had it on the bus, three games, right? Locker rooms, all that. So you had the guy who shot his gun outside of the nightclub. Seven games, right? So, uh, from what we did, no fingerprints, no nothing, just my word that said they were mine? Ah, I'm thinking three games. I, I could do three. And to be honest, I already did my three. And then he thought about it. Yeah, so what we gonna do is 50 games.

• 32:20Speaker 04

  And if you try to fight or appeal it. He said, you just lost your Adidas deal. Yeah. I'm gonna go after your NBA contract.

• 32:34Speaker 04

  You know how you gotta look at Javaris? What you gonna do, big dog? Yeah, man.

• 32:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and just, I'm gonna shut the fuck up right now. And that's what I did. Right? I can, I can fight you all day, but you are the commissioner. And you saying you gonna go after my contract. I don't know what loophole you about to try. Right? Like, and with Javaris, like, I'm doing all the stuff in the media, so I'm getting suspended for detrimental to the team because of my mental actions. He ain't doing nothing. So I feel that, okay, well, you can only give him three to seven games, but the both of us, 50. There was just the rest of the season. So because a gun charge, and that's the same thing with Ja. I'd rather have the gun charge, because you can only give me one of three games. But, you know, putting a mental on somebody, that's crazy. That's, that's the one you don't want.

• 33:26Speaker 04

  Because that can go from one game to whatever.

• 33:28Channing Crowder?

  How would you approach it different now? Now that you a grown man, now that you-

• 33:32Speaker 04

  Which part?

• 33:32Channing Crowder?

  Thought about, the whole thing. If you, now you sitting down with Silva, it's not Stern, obviously, but if you sitting down, how would you approach that entire situation differently?

• 33:40Speaker 04

  Having that conversation with him?

• 33:41Channing Crowder?

  Having the conversation, you thinking three to seven, him thinking 50. Like, what would you, how would you, could you have changed it now that you know all you know?

• 33:48Speaker 04

  Probably wouldn't even went through the, the damn speech of, you know, one game, three games, seven games, and because he already made his mind up. You know, what he's saying was real accurate. Right? That at that moment in time, I wasn't gonna let go. I wasn't gonna let go because you got it wrong. I didn't pull a gun on nobody, I didn't threaten nobody. So you got it wrong from the beginning. But that was my fault, too. From the beginning, I already tainted the story. You know, like, it's just like, you know, mess with a ugly chick, you wake up in the morning and, you know, reality kicks in. Right, like, ooh, that was a bad one. Same thing here, you know, once everything played out and we were gonna get in trouble. I'm like, what can they do to me? Right? They can't do anything to me.

• 34:33Speaker 04

  But they can go after you. So just say I did everything. I'll take, I'll take full responsibility. They can't do, they can't, you know, they can't. I'm thinking that they can't suspend me. They can't, you know, they can't take my money. They can't put me in jail because at that point it has, it needs, you need facts. Right? And the fact is, it was the opposite. So you can't do no, so I'll take all the blame. And they ran with that.

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• 35:24Ryan Clark?

  When Fred brought up the Joss situation, it made me think about mentorship. You know, he's obviously the wisdom of our show. So they come up to us and they ask us all different things. You know, he wants to make people laugh. They wanted me to debate. They're asking Fred for like some OG, real life stuff. You have been through a ton of things and you fought through certain adversities. You know, when he mentioned the Joss situation, it immediately made, it come to my mind, what were Gilbert's thoughts? Do you ever, or how much do you get to share and pour back into the young people? Unlike your Lou Will story where you said you was gonna be an international pimp? I don't think, I don't necessarily.

• 36:06Speaker 04

  I was a young player back then.

• 36:10Ryan Clark?

  But like, how much do you try to pour back into just younger players, whether it's high school, college, or the league with some of the things you've gone through? And how receptive are they?

• 36:20Speaker 04

  I try all the time, even with the, you know, even with the podcast, right? When a Joss situation came up, you know, I was the one defending him. You know, we make mistakes. I look at the context of it. Right? I'm looking at the context. All right, he's at a strip club, drunk. Pull it out, happy. Right? It's not like he's in some evil, like, oh, yeah. He's happy. He's just for the gram. Okay. Second time, put it in the car, having fun, happy, doing it for the, like.

• 36:52Speaker 04

  The way he's doing it has no ill intention. He's just doing it. He's in a vibe of music and he's reacting to the songs he's listening to. That's not the character of who he's supposed to be. So, he's 20 something, 22, 21 doing that. He's making a mistake. I was an idiot, right? I'm 28. I know better, right? So, I'm like, all he needs is, hey, man, look, this is, hey, don't be, don't be here. Don't be a podcaster. You know what I mean? You know, speaking back, right? This is what you have in front of you. You got the world. You got, listen, you gonna make 500 million just doing you.

• 37:36Speaker 04

  But to get to that, that, that other door, to be an icon, to be this, yeah, you gonna have to clean up some shit, right? So, if you're trying to be in that LeBron James, Curry, that, that, that door, the stuff you're doing right now could affect it. So, you're gonna have to do a lot of cleaning up your image, right? You know, being in that other door, that Al Iris, you gonna do that naturally, right? It's just, just your aura, how you play the game, right? But there is another door to, you know, greatness, right? So, if you're gonna be a gangbanger, you're gonna do all that, be a gangbanger of the greatest of all time, that's a rare, right? That, that, that, that gold jacket is, that's, that's a game. That's the one you wanna be in. You don't wanna be in the street one.

• 38:21Speaker 04

  That's, nah, nah.

• 38:24Fred Taylor?

  And even with being a mentor in that particular situation or in that space, talk about podcasting, being an OG, podcasting, giving back game. I've watched a lot of y'all episodes, right? And a lot of times I say, they talking about this from the locker room? Damn, that's the game that not everybody should be privy to. Is there a line that No Chill Gill won't cross? What, what's out of bounds?

• 38:49Speaker 04

  Other people's situations, right? Their, their personal life, right? We, we, we stay out of, you know, like if somebody's going troubles with their wives and we don't tap into that. Like, we'll put ourselves in that situation. When I was there, you know what I mean? Like, you know, with the whole Zion, right?

• 39:09Speaker 04

  Brother, we been there, you know what I mean? So, just trust me, we feel you. So, we can't sit there and try to scold you for some shit that we did. So, I'mma just make fun of him. Hey, you got entertainment at the crib. You ain't even gotta go nowhere. Just bring out the ones and have fun, right? And that's our take on it. We don't try to get into people's personal lives because we were there. Some of us was in that same situation, right? So, you know, like, yo, I got my teammate. You know, I'm messing with his girl, shit, he messing with my ex. And like, you know what I mean? Those are real touchy subjects to the point where like, nah. We don't even have to look at each other and be like, that's off limits. So, most of our stuff is us in real time, talking about what we did. Versus, you know, chiming in on anybody else's personal life.

• 39:54Ryan Clark?

  How hard do you find it to navigate that though? Because we actually talked about it and saying how there are stories from our past that we're comfortable with telling, but a lot of times they involve other people. Whether it be teammates, people we were in relationships with, and those sorts of things. Do you ever get worried that you're going to say something that affects someone else who's connected to you negatively, even though it doesn't do the same for you?

• 40:25Speaker 04

  No, yeah, so I'll pick and choose what stories I tell, knowing that, okay, if this person had, okay, he had a wife at the time, and they still married, I can't tell that story, right? You know what I mean? If they divorced, I might sprinkle it in, depending, do you got custody already?

• 40:44Speaker 04

  So, I do have, like, I do think about everybody else when, you know, I tell some of those stories. Most of my stories would be me and Nick Young, right? Like, our situations and stuff we went through, you know, JaVale, right? So, I'm picking and choosing. I'm not gonna tell no, you know, Antoine Jameson or Koran stuff, you know, because, you know, most of the stuff, they didn't do nothing. Or that it ain't even, it ain't even entertaining anyway, right? So, you know, some of the stuff I tell is usually just me as the, the, the bad person at that time.

• 41:16Ryan Clark?

  How are you entertaining? You don't smoke, you don't drink, you don't really hang like you talk about? How are you entertaining? Like you just said, what you said earlier, you were like the most boring, rich person. You have this huge persona, right? Where I would, just from the outside looking in, especially Hoopers, bro, I've been in cities and y'all play at 12 and we were out in the league and I was like, ain't no way, they sending me drinks. Like, I know you on TV at 12. So basketball players live a different life than we live, but you didn't. How do you sort of live that life where you're actually two parallels? People believe you're this and perceive you're this, but you're on this other side. You're actually highly responsible.

• 42:02Ryan Clark?

  Do you play into the other part of it with your actions, the things you talk about?

• 42:07Speaker 04

  When you look at greatness and you look at why people fall, right? They have this persona of this, but they really this, right? Right, a family man, I don't do this, I'm doing that and then, you know, they, they out seven days a week, partying, got all hoes everywhere. We know what happens when this group finds out about that, right? You lose everything. Then you have the rock star side where you, if you come in with a little bit of dirtiness on you, they understand it, right? So when I created No Chill, the persona, it was to understand, okay, when I was just regular Gilbert Arenas

• 42:51Speaker 04

  and Agent Zero and I had this and I messed up and this is what happened, while I'm down here, I'm gonna, I'm gonna armor up. So next time I get back to the top, you can't tear me down. So I built the persona of No Chill, right? So if I say anything wild, I get the high behind, you see the name. You see the name, what you expect, right? So I dirty, I dirty myself up so you can't. Knowing, you're never gonna see me in person. And I'm not gonna be out in the club getting in the fight. I'm the dude that get there at 10 o'clock. By 10:40, I'm out of here. Right, you know? Fake like I'm drinking, give me a shot, give me a shot of water. I'm that guy, right? Right, if I'm drinking, I'm drinking for a sponsor.

• 43:37Speaker 04

  You know, other than that, like, I'm contained. And that's the thing, that it's, it was to build something that can last longer with who I am. You gotta get, I had to give myself wiggle room to make mistakes and say stuff that, you know, that you can't cancel me for. Or if you're gonna cancel me, or try, what, what happens when you challenge that cancel? What, what really, what is cancel? So I, I had to go through all of this to realize what am I gonna push out?

• 44:10Ryan Clark?

  You know who said something very similar on our show? Kwame Brown. He, he said something very similar. Why is he so convinced you're the reason he didn't play?

• 44:23Speaker 04

  Cause that's what he told himself.

• 44:27Speaker 04

  To be honest, it was so funny, I was gonna do a live on a day, going back in time, I got the game footage. Kwame was, I think he was where I was when I got into the, the gun situation mentally. Right, when I first got to Washington, he was scarred. It makes sense, I mean, sure, you had Michael Jordan, right? You had Michael Jordan, the person you looked up to, you had Jerry Stackhouse, you had a whole bunch of, like, I knew what I went through as a rookie, two years, right? But I enticed half that shit, right? You know, I had Chris Mills and Denny Fortson and all of them, so I was, you know, I didn't, I wasn't playing, so I needed ass whippings to feel like I'm part of the team, goddammit. I'm 15, you know? You need to physically beat me up so I can feel like I'm a part of this.

• 45:11Speaker 04

  Right, cause this is crazy, come to practice every day, nobody know who you are. So, when I got there... And I'm hearing the stories, you know, just watching his mannerisms and, right? He was still scarred trying to figure out who he was. So I didn't really, I'd never said nothing to him. Like, we'd never had no problems. What happened was, he started off, our second season there, he started off injured. Right, so we made the trade for Antoine. We were putting Antoine at the four, putting Kwame at the five. He was a better five man. Right, Kwame was a four, five. He could have been Anthony Davis type, but he was that guy that can play, depending on how much weight he weighed at the time, he can be a three, four, five. Right?

• 45:55Speaker 04

  Faster than every five, faster than every four. Small hands, but it didn't really matter. It just, he didn't train for how fast he was. Right? That was his biggest mistake. Right? You're not, you're fast as hell, but you're training like traditional, you're training with Patrick Ewing and all of that, and, you know, the moves you're doing is not what happens in a game. Right? You're taking off, and I'm throwing a ball, and you're, you're not, yeah, you ain't been trained to run full speed, catch it, and do all that. So you're happening in real time. So I didn't really, like, go at him. So he started off the year not with the team. Right? By the time he came back, we was all in full motion. Right? He's fighting for bench minutes.

• 46:40Speaker 04

  Right? He's supposed to be, he's supposed to be Kobe and Shaq. Right? And he's fighting to get into the demotion of the team. Right? So he never won his starting position back. So he's getting booed at the end of the season. Right? You know, they've seen winning, and they're trying to put him back in, miss a layup, they booing him. So we wasn't playing him at home like that. He got all the time in a row, he was playing like 37 minutes in a row, about 15 at home. Right? He missed a couple of layups. Right? Mentally, he was just, he wasn't where he was supposed to be. Like, he wasn't confident in his game. He missed so much time trying to get in shape while we're trying to win. It just got away from him. So when we're in the playoffs, he had a good game one. Game two...

• 47:26Speaker 04

  You know, 20 something minutes, had one shot, right? I publicly said, "Hey, listen, Washington DC fans, please do not boo Kwame Brown when we get home. We need all our boos for this team. We getting booed out of this building. So, please do not boo him at home, right? That was me to like, think about what I'm saying. Like, this is what's on my, "Please do not boo", like, because it was hurting all of us. Like, we, I mean, you know, some of us laughing because it's funny, right? Like, to be out there, you miss a layup, and motherfuckers start booing. We're like, "Oh, they already shit it. It's been 32 seconds, this motherfucker already in", you know what I mean? And that's what it was all, it was like. So, the people who didn't like him, they, of course, they're gonna laugh.

• 48:10Speaker 04

  But, but, to be honest, try to play a game while they're booing a player at home. Like, when you're getting booed at home, that's a different feeling. They don't like you because you are playing horrible. On the road, you getting booed because you him. Very different scenario. So, when we're going at home, right? We're on a like, "Yo, we need to try to win these two games. We're down 0-2." The big man were playing better. Eton having his best game. He got 20 points, right? So, there was no time for Kwame. So, you know, the media's gonna ask, "Hey Kwame, you know, you ain't get no minutes today." And we happy, like, we won, we got it won. And I hear him over there like, "Oh, man, they need to pass me the ball more."

• 48:52Speaker 04

  And, would you ask, you know, the reporters ask you like, "Yeah", so Kwame said, "Hey, man, when we passing the ball, man, he don't do shit with it. Ah, damn." You know what I mean? It was, it was one of those, "Man, we are winning. What the hell you talking about? You ain't getting the ball, we won." Right, that's all that matters right now, especially down 1-2, like, we better without, then I said that, then he says, "Well, if they gave me the ball, I'd do something with it." And I said, "Man, we just better without him." You know what I mean? Like, like, "Come on, man, we trying to celebrate the win here." And then what ends up happening is, I don't know who told him, but, you know, one of the, I know who told him. Eton.

• 49:31Speaker 04

  Told him, who had, who was in front of him, who had the game, like, he played the good game for you not to get in, right? He's the one that's balling for you not to get in. And he tells him, "I had him benched." "Me? What do you mean I had him benched? Your play had him benched. What the fuck you talking about me for?" And, and he, he stayed with that. He quit, he quit. Didn't want to play anymore. He, he was good. He thought that his play stamped him getting a contract. So, he played the contract thing with his agent, and he quit on the team. That was the la, that was the last time we played. That game, that little altercation. And, you know, he asked me, "Did I have him benched?" "Hey, what have you benched for?" Like, you spread the floor at the five, right? We're faster at, we're faster when you in the five.

• 50:16Speaker 04

  If you're playing a four and we got Brendan or Eton in the game, that don't make sense. But you playing the five, like, as the starting five, we got Antoine Jamison. We're today's game. Right? So, that, that's, that was the ideal game for us. So, when, when he didn't want to come back, like, "Yo, we," I went up to him, "Yo, we need you for this." I mean, "We don't need you for this series. We can use you for this series, but we got Big Fella coming next if we win. We got Shaq. We need you to only do on this team that can hold Shaq one-on-one." Right? And, like, "Nah, I'm good." "Nah, fuck it, whatever." And that was it.

• 50:54Channing Crowder?

  Damn, bro, as you-

• 50:56Speaker 04

  Man, he's stuck in 2001, man.

• 50:58Channing Crowder?

  I know, and, and-

• 50:59Ryan Clark?

  But can you, can you squash it, though?

• 51:01Speaker 04

  There's, there's nothing to squash.

• 51:02Channing Crowder?

  That's exactly what I was gonna say. It is something to squash, 'cause he's upset. You have your side of the story, he has his side of the story.

• 51:09Speaker 04

  His story was created off of attention. Like, the Stephen A. shit. Stephen A. wasn't even Lee when Com, Com got drafted.

• 51:20Speaker 04

  Stephen A. didn't mention Kwame's name until 2007. But he keeps saying this when he was 19. He was all 25. He was 25 years old and he got traded from LA to Memphis. That's when Kwame Brown's name got mentioned by Stephen A. Smith. So the story he's telling ain't actually a real story. So we're, and that was my problem with him like, if you're gonna tell the story, I don't give a fuck if you lie on everybody. Don't lie on me. Especially with someone who had your back this whole time. Like, when they're like, "Oh, he a bust." Like, nah, nah, man. That wasn't the situation. And, you know, I make, I make excuses for you. So for you to say, "I took money out your, your, your kid's mouth," because, like, nah, nah, we're not gonna do that.

• 52:02Speaker 04

  And then, you know, when you keep going, now I'm going, now I'm gonna poke at you. Now you is a bust. You, you, you did say, "Don't pass me the ball last, the first five minutes so you can get your rhythm." You did tell me, "Hey, man, can you tell them not to throw the smoke in the air 'cause it's messing up my lungs?" That was you, dawg.

• 52:23Ryan Clark?

  But you're an antagonist, though, like, and I like you, right? Because I got a little a-hole to me, too, so, so I get it. But, but you won, though, Gil. Like, you, you won, bro. Like, even with all that you've gone through, you won. Like, even your platform now, people pay attention to you, right? You've, you've done so well in this part of your life, you're now bringing other people in. Whether it be Hoopers, Josiah, whoever it is, like, they get to eat because of what you've done. And it almost feels, like, I think back to Javaris and you being able to say, "You know what? I should've did something different here." You don't ever go, "I've won. I can do something different."

• 53:06Speaker 04

  Every time. Every time, but, see, because, because we don't have, but see, because we don't have real history, it's not personal. Like, so it's like when Gil's Arena, before Gil's Arena started, I was like, "Yeah, Kwame, say, we got, we got everything going. Say, let's just team up. Let's just put it, put some shit together."

• 53:26Speaker 04

  Nah, you bitch ass nigga.

• 53:32Speaker 04

  But to be honest, to be honest, okay? And this is why I say, you have to really understand the Kwame Brown metrics, the algorithm for him. He came in with Jordan. He was supposed to be the number one pick. He's supposed to be the look, how LeBron gets talked about, how Wimby gets talked about. Jordan stepped in front of that, right? Took that shine away from him, which at the time probably needed it because they're looking at Jordan, not you. You get developed for two years. And then I came, right? And then what happened is I showed them what a workaholic looked like. They kind of started looking at him like, well, we got one kid doing the same, same age doing this, you know what I mean? Then he goes with Kobe.

• 54:14Speaker 04

  So he was always like a disappointment to the world. So when he blew and he became attention, that was the first time he got the attention that felt like positive for him, right? So, you know, you got five, six, seven, 10,000 people in your chat. You ain't trying to talk about no partner, dude. Like, I ain't trying to partner with you. I got it all. And that's what that was, right? It was like, I don't, I don't need you, which he didn't at the time. But you can't sustain that because what you're talking about ain't, it ain't a real thing. Once somebody lifts the skirt up, they gonna see the real you. And, you know, the stories you telling is the reason that they're, they're surviving

• 54:58Speaker 04

  is because nobody who was around you, like the girl, you, the girl who had the plain body here, and then you move to Miami, you get all done up and then you, you, you, you a 10, erase your whole, erase your whole past and then your page is starting from 2022. And then the only thing that happens is somebody in the elevator like, wait, hold on, girl. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da. You got 100 bodies. You like, that's what ended up happening. So I always go and say, yo, hey, let's just, let's just, let's just do some kind of, I always try to like, give him, like, if he needs some questions, I mean, I always go up there and try to do the, the thing with him, but he always takes it. Oh, he was the gun, the dude with the gun, locker room and this and like, you still trying to play to your audience? All right, bet. And then that's where that comes from.

• 55:43Fred Taylor?

  It took us a while since we've had him on the show. I remember Channing say he got a DM from you.

• 55:50Ryan Clark?

  I got text messages from Gil.

• 55:51Fred Taylor?

  You got a text from Gil?

• 55:52Ryan Clark?

  I gave him my number. Yeah, at that time, I was like, this is way too volatile. I gotta get with Gil a little bit first.

• 55:59Fred Taylor?

  Right, because we just wanted to make sure everything was smooth out. But now that we've gotten it, that's history. We'll never mention it again. But I do want to ask you about that night you dropped 60 on Kobe, man. The mindset before the game and then the feeling after the game. Like, take us through that a little bit.

• 56:17Speaker 04

  What's funny is, there is footage. So, I used to go to the gym early. Whenever we played the Lakers, I always went to the gym early just to watch the workout. Because, you know, watch him, see what he's doing, see what he's working on. And then, you know, when he's done, I'll go. So, we were the only two in the gym. He'll work, I'll let him, give him his piece, and then I'll go do mine.

• 56:39Speaker 04

  Starting from 2002. So, this is 2006. Over the years, he started messing with the time. Right? So, like, you know, he'd go from 3 o'clock, get off about 4:30. Right? I'd get on 4:30. Then, then he started coming in at like 3:35, 3:40, start bleeding into 5 o'clock. Right? So, like, he's messing with my rhythm. And I remember one time, I told him, I said, "Man, I said, we're going, if he don't stop at 4:30, what we gonna do is, we gonna get on there, I'm gonna start working out. He gonna probably look down here like, what the hell he doing? And then, at some point, start calling out like, 32, 33, 34 in a row. And then, like, let me know when he looks." Right?

• 57:23Speaker 04

  So, now, I'm playing the mind game with him. So, you know, like, he ain't looking right now, he's like, "Nah." And then, he was like, "All right, ready, go." 38, 39, 40, 41, 42. And then, and then he was like, "Oh, he's looking, he's looking." I was like, "Yeah, I'm good, 40 something in a row." Right?

• 57:41Speaker 04

  Right, and then I go sit down, right? And that's the workout. I only took seven shots, but he think I went forty something in a row. That's all I needed. So, I used to look at like, man, like, he's a machine, he's this. So, going to the game, it was just the same typical, right? The teams I played very well against was the Lakers, and the Phoenix Suns, and Golden State. Those three teams, no matter what was going on in life, I'm busting them three ass, right? I played in Phoenix, I mean, I played in Arizona, so that was like a home crowd to me. L.A., I'm from L.A., Kobe's my favorite, so I already got up, and then I went to Golden State. So, those were my three teams where no matter what was going on, I'm getting y'all.

• 58:22Speaker 04

  So, that game, I remember, uh, Luke Walton said, yeah, Kobe said he gonna shut you down. I was like, if you try to guard me like normal, I'm gonna just go one for flat, right? That was my thing, like, you wanna guard me, then I'm just gonna isolate you and then put you on the island because I'm faster than you, right? I'm faster than you, I'm just gonna use my speed. So, every time, you know, hey, look, you get, he did this, alright, Smush, you go DeShawn Stevenson, and I'm gonna go ahead and shut Gilbert down. Well, if this is their lineup, forget the two plays that we was gonna run, I'm going one for flat, right? Just to throw it out there, right? Just to, you know, this is what's gonna happen, we gonna make this an isolation game. And then I just caught rhythm early, so by the time he switched on me, it was...

• 59:07Speaker 04

  I actually hate that because Kobe's my favorite hooper.

• 59:09Channing Crowder?

  But that was your mentor, that was your guy, though, and you just can't destroy him.

• 59:15Speaker 04

  And that's the reason that he respected, because he watched me watch him through the process. If he was allowed it, and you ask him, hey, can you name the player that used to watch you practice the most that was on the opposite team? He'll say me, right? Because I was there, I used to come watch and look and take notes and, right? And him watching me work out, he see I'm getting better every year, right? He see I'm putting in the work. When I miss my free throws against LeBron...

• 59:48Speaker 04

  Hey, y'all said Kobe went to a mental dude, right? And I was like, yeah, what's his name? And they was like, oh, it's a black ops guy. Well, can you find him for me? Got the number, went straight to San Francisco. I need to work. I need to mentally be where he was. Because, you know, during that whole thing where he got in trouble. I'm sorry, but you had to be mentally strong to go through that and still play in the NBA while everybody's looking at you like you have no protection. I realize how strong mentally he was when I was mentally weak in 2009, 10. When I said, oh, I can't do this no more. That let me know how strong this man was.

• 1:00:33Speaker 04

  Because that was way worse than this. And you out there giving 40.

• 1:00:37Ryan Clark?

  All the time.

• 1:00:38Speaker 04

  And I'm like, I'm sitting there like, yeah, I'm not as mentally strong as I thought I was.

• 1:00:43Ryan Clark?

  Did you ever go through any sort of like depression, sadness, isolation during those times? How'd you handle that?

• 1:00:51Speaker 04

  I didn't handle it very well.

• 1:00:54Speaker 04

  I didn't like it was like, it's like a person getting shot, right? There's only two ways they go. They think they Superman and they, or they just are docile. I went the docile route.

• 1:01:09Speaker 04

  And like, that's why like from the 2010 to probably like 2014, you never really heard nothing from me. There was nothing. It was, I didn't exist. And I made it, I made it that way. And the only thing that got me out of it is the breakup with my girl. And she's trying to run my name bad through the media. And I said,

• 1:01:31Speaker 04

  you ain't even doing it right. Like you, you not even bashing me right. I can do a better job than you. So let me go ahead. If I'm going, if people gonna hate me, let them hate me for my personality, not the shit you creating. Right? And, and that's where I got my personality back.

• 1:01:46Ryan Clark?

  So fast forward to like having a healthy relationship. Fast forward to everybody's like, oh, my goodness. Gil, they proposed. Because it wasn't Gil proposed, they proposed.

• 1:01:58Channing Crowder?

  Like, how has life changed from that moment of getting your persona and voice back to now being in the relationship you are in?

• 1:02:10Speaker 04

  You can see why Kobe was successful, LeBron was successful, and all the greats, the Magics, the Michaels, because the stability at home was there, right? As you're fighting the world, you don't want to fight at home, right? You know, so, you know, when we look at certain personalities and certain people's career, you know, it was the, it was the relationship that kept them grounded as players, right? Wild, you know, the wild ones, you know, you can't let it go, right? Right? You can't let it go. I wasn't looking for a relationship, but when it came, when it came and it challenged

• 1:02:54Speaker 04

  the life I had, I'm like, I got all these, I can, you know, okay, it was, you know what I mean? And it was something, it was something different. And I was like, I really don't need y'all, right? I really don't need y'all. This is, this is what I need to build and go where I'm trying to go. So it was, it was easy. It was more, it was, it was more of an overnight thing than it was.

• 1:03:19Channing Crowder?

  But, but like you say, you fighting the world. You brought up my damn space. That's a long goddamn time ago. But like, why would you, as what you could do, as talented as you are, as work, like, why would you care about my space, Twitter, Instagram? It's a question I ask a lot of people, because I don't even look at that shit. But why do, like, you not fighting the world. You're trying to be successful in your own lane, but you gotta listen to what, what the dude in his basement tweeting you is? Like, what does it matter?

• 1:03:46Speaker 04

  Because we're human, right? We're human and, you know...

• 1:03:51Speaker 04

  We wanna be appreciated for what we're doing. Right, it's just a human being like, you know, if I work out 23 hours a day, and I go out there and I give you the best performance of my life, I wanna be, I do want the claps. Right, you know, like, like you, like an actor, he wants to stand an ovation. He can, imagine somebody going out there giving a great ass speech, and everybody just like,

• 1:04:19Speaker 04

  "Hey, who's next?" Like, he'll feel deflated, right? What makes him feel like that performance was great is the standing ovation, and he's like, "Alright, okay, cool. I know how to, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna top it the next time." And that's what it is. So when you sitting there performing and working out and doing this, you want people to really, Appreciate. Appreciate it, right? Kevin Durant is, is challenging people for his career because he knows what he's putting into it, and that's the problem. You know, that, that's all it is. It's just, if we call it prima donna, it, it, it is. But it's, it ain't somebody who's sorry talking about, "Hey, you know, give me the glaze." Right?

• 1:05:03Speaker 04

  Right, it's not, we're not glazing the worst player in NBA, you know, you're talking about, I mean, y'all Bron sexuals. Bron bad man. I mean, like, you, like, I mean, his resume is his resume. His resume is his resume, like, y'all are trying to pretend that what he's doing is like a normal thing. It's not. Like, I'm not glazing someone who's, I'm not saying, "Okay, he's ranked 30 and I'm making him one." Right, his, if you take his name off his stats, you're gonna be like, "Yo, this is the greatest player of all time." Right, you're gonna look at the list and be like, "Okay, these, these five is probably the greatest players that ever played this game." And you're gonna put it, and then you get to release the names, right? Most people don't like LeBron because they like somebody else.

• 1:05:47Speaker 04

  That's okay, right? You can like them all, right? That's a thing. I like, I like vanilla and chocolate. Put them shits together, ooh, that's another taste, right? Just 'cause you like Kobe don't mean you need to hate LeBron. That's not how this works, but that's, that's today's mindset, right? So, like, the reason I defend LeBron because his, like, no one's, no one's looking at what they're looking at. We seen Jordan. We seen it, we loved it. We got beat up for it, we stood in line. It's over. Kobe, we loved it, we watched it, we seen it. It's over. Now LeBron, see the fact that we're still looking in our rearview mirror, we're not realizing.

• 1:06:32Speaker 04

  We wouldn't, we probably would never see this again.

• 1:06:35Ryan Clark?

  This is a one-time thing.

• 1:06:36Speaker 04

  We're never gonna see somebody at 38, 39 do this. When you start comparing, remember who your player was at this age. On the bench, sitting there, two, three minutes, you gotta cheer him on like a little kid, like the ball boy at the gym. That 50-year senior, he didn't get no minutes. And you start calling his name, kinda like, you know, his son, right? Start calling the kid, "Hey, get in," and your old player coming in doing one of these.

• 1:07:04Ryan Clark?

  So you gonna let that slide? You heard he say it? Kinda like his son? Cause you know you got a big issue with that.

• 1:07:11Speaker 04

  You know how they do the son right now, like, "Bronny, Bronny," at the end of the game? That's how you-

• 1:07:16Channing Crowder?

  I was gonna let you have it.

• 1:07:17Speaker 04

  That's how your 38 and 39-year-old favorite player used to be. We used to do that for him.

• 1:07:22Channing Crowder?

  LeBron is so good that his son got an NBA contract off the daddy. Bronny should not be in the NBA. I've told him 100 times, that man cannot play with these men. But his daddy is so good that they let him play and waste two possessions running that raggedy-ass pick and roll. I have money on the game. Stop running the pick and roll with this boy and put somebody in the game.

• 1:07:48Speaker 04

  This man, no, talk about something else.

• 1:07:51Ryan Clark?

  He said he can shoot 17%.

• 1:07:53Channing Crowder?

  He shot 17% in the league. Look up the number.

• 1:07:56Speaker 04

  Okay, but look, that's not, you can't, you can't kinda like that.

• 1:07:59Channing Crowder?

  I can't.

• 1:07:59Speaker 04

  No, the reason is-

• 1:08:00Ryan Clark?

  That's what I'm trying to tell him.

• 1:08:01Speaker 04

  It's like getting in the football game at the end of the game and they tell you to, "All right, we just," you the running back, right? You not running to get 20 yards, right? You there getting one, two yards, getting down. That's, that's that, man. You're not, he's not playing an actual basketball game.

• 1:08:20Fred Taylor?

  But he, he's crazy, cause I'm doing the stat check for this show and I, I see one year you had the 10, you averaged 10 assists. I'm like, hold on, Gil averaged 10 assists? He played two games.

• 1:08:30Speaker 04

  Two games.

• 1:08:31Fred Taylor?

  So the stats are skewed, bro. Like, he needs more opportunity.

• 1:08:34Channing Crowder?

  In them two games, he had, he had 20 assists in two games.

• 1:08:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, but that's not.

• 1:08:40Channing Crowder?

  That doesn't prove Bronny ain't had man.

• 1:08:42Fred Taylor?

  Percentages.

• 1:08:43Speaker 04

  No, no, no. Okay, look at.

• 1:08:44Channing Crowder?

  The percentage of efficiency that Gil had was better.

• 1:08:48Speaker 04

  Now, look at the, no, no.

• 1:08:49Channing Crowder?

  What would you do if Bronny lined up in front of you?

• 1:08:53Speaker 04

  Stop. At the same age?

• 1:08:54Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:55Speaker 04

  I remember that at the same age, like, remember?

• 1:08:57Channing Crowder?

  Right now, you drop 30 on him.

• 1:09:01Speaker 04

  Probably. If I, if I give him away, but, I mean, but in, in, see, I'm more like Bronny than a lot, like, when you're a second round pick,

• 1:09:12Speaker 04

  you're playing second round pick minutes. Which means you, the last time you did one of those, right, is at the beginning of the game, two hours ago, right? And coach calls your name in for a minute, and you telling me I supposed to be great, it's supposed to be Steph Curry out here and I just got in the game? We sitting here, nerves kicking in, this is real NBA players. That is nerve wracking, dog. You're not a star, you, you are, you are the guy who watched all your favorite players play today.

• 1:09:47Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 1:09:47Speaker 04

  Right? And you coming in, knees shaky, right? You talking about shoot that first shot, bruh. If it don't hit the top of the backboard, you gonna airball, like. Gerald Wallace could have did it. Right? You just getting it up to get it up. Right? So, I, like, I didn't score my first bucket until when season started.

• 1:10:08Speaker 04

  October 31st, I didn't get my first actual layup until January 16th.

• 1:10:15Channing Crowder?

  Damn.

• 1:10:15Speaker 04

  And, and I got a steal and I was thinking, I'm about to dunk it. And the leg said, you gonna lay up.

• 1:10:24Speaker 04

  Because think about it, I got on the break and the excitement kicked in so much, I didn't feel my legs no more.

• 1:10:35Speaker 04

  It's a, it's a, it's a real thing. So I don't expect him, like when you go, when you go young like that, like is he ready to play? No. Will he be ready in two, two years? That's when we're gonna see. Right? When you're picking, when you're picking 18, 19, 20, you're not picking for today, right? If there's a LeBron that's gonna come in and a Luka that's gonna come in, okay. You'll see him, but for the most part, your Jokic, remember Jokic came in?

• 1:11:01Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:01Speaker 04

  They said when Jokic in, oh, they just putting anybody in the game now. The MVP three time, when he first got in the game, they was like, oh, they just put anybody. Yeah. Right? It takes time. Some people are just different, right? Um, his attributes, you know, at six, two and a half, he's the average point guard size. He's more athletic than damn near all of them besides what Ja, uh, De'Aaron Fox maybe? Um, he got the same speed as them, strength, he's probably stronger than all of them, right? He's just not aggressive, right? So two years, play in the G League, practice, get, develop a little bit more. Try to be a real point guard. We'll see what you look like at 22.

• 1:11:43Channing Crowder?

  If his name was Jeff, Jeff Rutherford, he would not be in the NBA. He would not be on the roster. He would not have got a guaranteed contract. He would not be going to a G League if his name was not Bronny James.

• 1:11:55Speaker 04

  If he was, if, no, no, no, he would be on the G League team because of his age. So you gotta factor in that part too. You gotta take his attributes and his age, right?

• 1:12:03Channing Crowder?

  And at USC, he was what, 5'2 and 1?

• 1:12:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:12:08Channing Crowder?

  I think I could get 5-2-1 right now.

• 1:12:10Ryan Clark?

  You can't.

• 1:12:11Speaker 04

  You know Zach Levine, he averaged 7.

• 1:12:14Ryan Clark?

  Really?

• 1:12:14Speaker 04

  He was a lottery. You have the kid from Peyton Watson averaged 3. So he averaged 3 coming off the bench. The star player didn't get drafted. They came out in the same draft. The star player didn't get drafted, Johnny Usain. And the guy coming off the bench averaging 3 went to Denver at 18. It's your individual.

• 1:12:37Ryan Clark?

  It's a measurable attribute draft a lot of times in.

• 1:12:40Speaker 04

  It's guesswork. So like I got a 23-year-old today, what he look like? I got a 20-year-old guy in 3 years. Where is he gonna be? Right? And that's all it is. It's more guesswork. I'd rather take a, you'd rather take a chance on a younger guy developing into something decent versus an older guy who, he's good right now, but where's his, what's his ceiling? Right? Like that's what I said, like the name itself got him drafted, of course. He'd be on a G League team. Right? I mean, he's young enough, they're gonna be like, oh, well, he's athletic, he can run, he plays the game the right way. He would have been on the G League team. But you know, sort of guaranteed contract name. The name, right?

• 1:13:24Speaker 04

  Because you know, that G League contract is 41,000.

• 1:13:28Speaker 04

  But you know, it's different than when I played. You negotiate your own contract in the second round now. So the first pick in the second round got a guaranteed 6 million. The second and third pick got a guaranteed 11 million.

• 1:13:42Ryan Clark?

  Damn.

• 1:13:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know. So that means they already negotiated those contracts before the draft. Right? Bronny's guaranteed 2 years, partial third, team option 4th. So really, he got a 2-year guaranteed. Now, you know, when people say, what about Quincy? And I say, man, if I'm Quincy, I'm grateful he got drafted. The reason is, is.

• 1:14:12Speaker 04

  This team had 15 players. Obviously, they wasn't picking me in the draft because I didn't get drafted, if I'm correct, right? You didn't get drafted, so I didn't play that well to be seen. But what happened is, I got on summer league team with him. I showed that I'm decent, I showed I'm good, because, you know, we didn't hear his name in summer league. He actually got out there, though. Right? We seen him like, okay, he's cool, hey, we're gonna bring you to camp, right? And then, in the game, we showed out. If Bronny, if not everybody's sitting there looking at Bronny, nobody would have seen you. Just like, nobody talked about any other pick. So what happens is, your name became so like, in the algorithm, the Lakers was like, they like him, right? Yeah, they like him.

• 1:14:58Speaker 04

  What we gonna do?

• 1:15:00Speaker 04

  Hey, them two G League people we had last year, who were they? Nobody cares, okay. We gonna get rid of them and we gonna sign him. So they signed him to a deal, 1.1 million, to go play in the G League. Versus getting drafted by the G League and making 41,000. Right? So think about the G League players who's been sitting there with 41,000, leading the league in scoring every year. They sitting here like, see, he getting that playing with Bronny, damn. So as much as Bronny's being hated, Quinsey's being hated too. Hey, man, it's about opportunity.

• 1:15:35Speaker 04

  And that's why I said, man, when the light is on you, man. Yeah, show out. Show out. Like, I don't care why, listen, I don't care why Bronny is here. He's here, I'm gonna show out. Right? That's my thing, like, I'm a friend to the young fella. Hey, man, I can teach you this, this, this. Because I know, as long as, if people are paying attention to him and they want to see him succeed, if I'm helping him, he's gonna be grateful for me. Right? So if he get a job, you know how it works. He gets a job, hey, man, bring the dude, he looked out for me. That's how that works. It's about relationships, man.

• 1:16:11Fred Taylor?

  Gil, from being homeless to now.

• 1:16:14Speaker 04

  Well, I wasn't homeless.

• 1:16:15Fred Taylor?

  Okay.

• 1:16:16Speaker 04

  He was homeless.

• 1:16:17Fred Taylor?

  I'm sorry.

• 1:16:17Speaker 04

  My daddy was homeless. You was with him. But was I?

• 1:16:21Fred Taylor?

  I'm gonna rephrase that. I'm gonna rephrase it.

• 1:16:26Speaker 04

  Hey, he throwing his pops under the bus, though. I'm just saying, he was homeless.

• 1:16:32Speaker 04

  I made the trip, I said, you know what, I'm going back home, player. Call me when you get your shit together.

• 1:16:39Fred Taylor?

  My bad. We always ask our guests what their biggest pivot is. That's that one moment in your life that without that happening, you wouldn't be who you are today.

• 1:16:48Speaker 04

  Probably Sherman Oaks Park. My dad was sitting on the bench trying to figure out what his next move is. And a lady walked up to him and said, is that your son? And I was like, yeah. She was like, he's a very happy kid. You guys been at the park? You guys sleeping here? And he was like, yeah, you know, just trying to figure out how to get like $1,200. I already have a job. You know, a guy is gonna help me work the building, like sort of like maintenance. And he said, you know, I just need $1,200 to secure the room. And she was like, is this a real thing? And he was like, yeah, you know, here's the person's number. So they called, they called the guy and he's like, yeah, you know, if he can get the down payment, you know, I can put him in and he has a job. It's just the down payment.

• 1:17:31Speaker 04

  And she was like, okay, um, as soon as I get home, I'll, you know, whatever, give you the money. And the lady gave him the money. And that's how we got into our first apartment. And then from there, you know, the stable life is, you know, what everybody needs sometimes. So I would say that would be the pivot moment of my life. Because if not, I would have been in Florida, you know, probably been a football player. Mike Williams was my, my best friend when I was growing up.

• 1:17:54Fred Taylor?

  Really?

• 1:17:55Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm. We, our, our grandmas lived right across the street from each other. So that was a guy I played with. So we was football, baseball.

• 1:18:02Fred Taylor?

  That's good.

• 1:18:03Speaker 04

  Did any contact with that woman? No, yeah, nah. She gave you out $1,200 and hit it. Yeah, $1,200, we got our apartment. It's fucking ain't nothing. All because of a, all because of a smile, you know what I mean? Just happy being broke. Cause he was broke though, he wasn't. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:20Fred Taylor?

  Your daddy didn't have no brains. So it went back.

• 1:18:24Speaker 04

  Hey, he told that, that man said, boo cool time.

• 1:18:26Fred Taylor?

  If your daddy went broke, you probably wouldn't have known the struggle. You probably wouldn't have got that opportunity.

• 1:19:07Speaker 08

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