Josh Gad Returns

Josh Gad (In Gad We Trust, Frozen, Book of Mormon) is a Grammy Award-winning actor. Josh returns to Armchair Expert to discuss why he believes he would be the Unsinkable Molly Brown on the Titanic, the unthinkable bravery and precision of LA firefighters, and questions whether Dax thinks he would’ve ended up as an Ira Glass or a Howard Stern. Josh and Dax talk about having permission to send Kumail Nanjiani shirtless pics, growing up without his emerald kingpin father, and how his comedy was born out of the despair from his parents’ divorce. Josh explains bombing his audition to Juilliard, how Disney became the salve to soothe loss in his life, and the acknowledgment of being your own worst enemy as long as you come out the other side. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Monica Mouse.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 0:05Dax Shepard?

  Hello. Our returning guest, he was phenomenal. The first time he was here.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  He joined us for Christmas as well.

• 0:13Dax Shepard?

  He came by for Christmas.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  He's been around a few times.

• 0:17Dax Shepard?

  Josh Gad, what a party Josh is. Josh is a Tony Award nominated actor. He was in The Book of Mormon, which I got to see him in. Lucky, I feel very lucky.

• 0:27Speaker 01

  So lucky.

• 0:28Dax Shepard?

  He was in the Putnam County Spelling Bee.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 0:30Dax Shepard?

  We get some backstory on that.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:32Dax Shepard?

  And then Frozen, Pixels, The Wedding Ringer, Beauty and the Beast. Oh, Gutenberg, the Musical 2, that was recently. I saw that too.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:40Dax Shepard?

  He has a book out right now. It's very, very well done. A beautiful memoir called In Gad We Trust. This is a really fun interview. It was at the apex of our terror. Keep that in mind.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we talk about it.

• 0:55Dax Shepard?

  We process it at the top.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's some fire talk, but it's a really armchair episode. Cause it's funny. Josh is so funny, but also it's pretty deep. We talk about his dad and a lot of, and, and his insecurities. And I don't know. I thought it was a really

• 1:14Dax Shepard?

  It has all the stuff.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  Beautiful encapsulation of what we try to do here.

• 1:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  So it's great.

• 1:20Dax Shepard?

  I agree. Also, we have February Armchair Anonymous prompts for folks who have great stories and want to chat with us on Zoom. Here are the February prompts. Live sporting event disasters. I hope to not be reporting one of those.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37Dax Shepard?

  Proposals gone wrong.

• 1:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40Dax Shepard?

  I guess that could be a wider net than first meets the eye. Cause you would think just wedding proposals, but there's like business proposals. There's, yeah, there's proposals. So proposals gone wrong. Crazy 23 and me DNA testing stories. This is by popular demand.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  They all were. I want to thank the armchairs. I put out a post and said, what do you want to hear on Armchair Anonymous? And people really gave amazing prompts. So I appreciate that.

• 2:08Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Love to our own devices. We would do wild card nurses and poop your pants stories exclusively. Okay. And the fourth is at home DIY project gone wrong.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there's gotta be a lot of those. So please enjoy Josh Gad. We get support from Quince.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about the fact that the holidays are already here? It's crazy. I feel like I blinked and now we're in gifting season, which I'm not really mad about because I do love giving gifts. And Quince is making it so easy to find something great for everyone on my list, including myself, because let's be honest, self-gifting is a love language.

• 2:45Dax Shepard?

  Quince is seriously the gift that keeps on giving. Their high-quality staples are made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, 14-karat gold, and Italian leather. Full-on luxury quality at prices that won't wreck your holiday budget.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  It's the dream. The cashmere sweater, starting at $60, down jackets, wool outerwear, cashmere accessories. You and everyone on your list are staying cozy and looking incredible all season long.

• 3:12Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm gonna tell you this, it just got chilly for the first time this year in California, and I'm so excited, and I'm wearing my Quince cashmere right now.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 3:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I am going to gift this to some of my friends. I hope they're not listening.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Quince is also more than clothing. They've got fine jewelry for your significant other, leather bags for your bestie, hotel-quality bedding to set up your guest rooms, chef-grade cookware. That's an amazing thing they offer here, and it's such a good gift because people don't like buying cookware for themselves, but it's very important. And they also have five-star luggage, another good gift that people don't like buying for themselves.

• 3:47Dax Shepard?

  Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. This episode is brought to you by McDonald's. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Medium Fries and a Drink is now $8.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  What?

• 4:19Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I need to talk about something that doesn't get enough respect. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese. This is not a casual burger. This is a crafted burger. We're talking 100% fresh beef, cooked right when you order it. No artificial flavors, no fillers, no preservatives. Just beef doing what beef is supposed to do. And here's a detail I love. There's a cowbell sound in the kitchen. When somebody orders a quarter pounder with cheese, a cowbell goes off and the grill master throws a fresh patty down. That's like having your own entrance music at McDonald's. I want a cowbell for everything in life. The onions are hand topped by someone who just knows the right amount. Two slices of cheese laid out in a star pattern. So every single bite gets cheese and two pickles side by side. So you're never in a pickle desert. Every bite is accounted for.

• 5:05Dax Shepard?

  Someone engineered this thing with love. I love a quarter.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Me too. That's my order. It's a quarter pounder with cheese. I love it. I didn't know they put so much effort that they did a star formation. I should have known because you can taste.

• 5:20Dax Shepard?

  You can taste it. Yeah. The love. Don't tell anyone this, but I'll put two of them back.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm not surprised.

• 5:26Dax Shepard?

  The quarter pounder with cheese with fries and a drink. Now $8 for a limited time only, only at McDonald's. For a limited time only, prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska, and California and for delivery. Fresh beef not available in Alaska and Hawaii. Offer not valid for delivery.

• 6:01Dax Shepard?

  You want a coffee, right?

• 6:02Speaker 02

  I always want a coffee. Do you remember what I like?

• 6:04Dax Shepard?

  You like cold brews.

• 6:05Speaker 02

  Oh, yes, remember.

• 6:08Dax Shepard?

  You mean something to me.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  You mean something to me, even though you don't have me over unless it's for work.

• 6:14Dax Shepard?

  But isn't that true across the board for all of us?

• 6:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's kind of fair because I don't invite you over to my place.

• 6:19Dax Shepard?

  You've never invited me over. I've invited you over too, albeit for work. Still, it's in.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  I don't have a podcast.

• 6:24Dax Shepard?

  Well, then fucking invite me over for a chit chat.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  I can't.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  That's a no.

• 6:28Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yes. It's been done and you could.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  No.

• 6:31Dax Shepard?

  Back to work. Ideally, you get enough leverage at some point that really you just get to work with all your friends. Right? That's the apex goal.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  My goal is get enough leverage to just work with my friends. And do it across the street from where I live.

• 6:45Dax Shepard?

  Maybe ideally in the backyard.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  Now that is sort of like next level thinking.

• 6:50Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so let's address the obvious context in which we record this. We had a guest who canceled. Well, we had two guests that canceled for reasons they could not avoid the LA fires. And so I called you as one of my friends.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:04Dax Shepard?

  And conveniently, you have a book out. So you do need to do some promotion.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  That's convenient.

• 7:09Dax Shepard?

  Have we started by the way?

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Don't you remember ABR?

• 7:13Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  Always be recording. Have you had the Titanic conversation? Like, who are you on the Titanic?

• 7:20Speaker 02

  I'm Kathy Bates. Are we talking about the movie or are we talking about the real?

• 7:24Speaker 01

  The movie.

• 7:24Dax Shepard?

  The film.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  Well, which is based on 100% reality.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  I'm the unsinkable Molly Brown.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:30Dax Shepard?

  I'm clearly playing a cello on the deck of the ship as it goes down.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  I think you're the Billy Zane character.

• 7:37Dax Shepard?

  Wasn't he naughty?

• 7:38Speaker 01

  He was a bad boy.

• 7:38Dax Shepard?

  He was a bad guy, right?

• 7:39Speaker 02

  You seem like you could go either way. As you spray whatever that is into your mouth.

• 7:44Dax Shepard?

  Nicotine spray. You saw I had the lozenges.

• 7:47Speaker 02

  I like to think of myself as the little old lady who's looking for a necklace towards the end of her life.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  She survived.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  And then it's just like, if I have to die, so does the worth and value of this necklace.

• 7:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I'm gonna take it with me.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Throw that back in the ocean.

• 8:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:00Dax Shepard?

  But yes, we're in a situation where a good part of the city is on fire, continues to be. I will say, it's not at the peak of scariness.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  They're starting to contain a little more.

• 8:11Dax Shepard?

  Lot of help has arrived. There's a lot of airplanes on the scene now.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  Can I say three things really quickly?

• 8:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  One, my heart breaks for every single person.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  It's horrifying.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  Who has lost their home right now. We know personally 15 people who have lost everything. It is unthinkable what's happening. Entire zip codes are gone.

• 8:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 8:31Speaker 02

  Our friends from the Pacific Palisades, their communities are wiped out.

• 8:34Dax Shepard?

  It's like Dresden.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's raised completely.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  Absolutely a war zone. Secondly, I have never seen on such a personal level the kind of bravery, the kind of camaraderie, and the kind of we are not taking this sitting down attitude as.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  The SoCal community has shown hosing down each other's homes. We've been dropping items off at various shelters around town. They are rejecting what we're dropping off because it is so full. And on top of that, we continue to donate. And I would encourage everyone who's listening right now. Can we make a list available of the various places that people can make donations?

• 9:19Dax Shepard?

  You're looking at me as if I'm gonna make a list, but I bet I can get the list made. I don't want to personally lie to you and commit that I'm gonna make the list and publish it.

• 9:26Speaker 02

  I don't want her to have anything to do with it.

• 9:28Dax Shepard?

  That's why I refuse to lie to you, even in these pressing times.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  As long as you delegate.

• 9:32Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  And then track it up, because if there's any fake numbers on there, I'm gonna blame you. If there's any bank routing numbers that go directly to your account.

• 9:40Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  I'm gonna be pissed.

• 9:41Dax Shepard?

  To primate LLC.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  This a fourth time. So, and I want to say that whatever happens next is on DAX, how we rebound as a city. The final thing I want to say is the firefighters.

• 9:53Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God. What bad motherfuckers.

• 9:55Speaker 02

  I don't know that I've ever seen such fucking superheroes in real life.

• 10:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 10:02Speaker 02

  As these guys who are risking it all without giving a flying fuck about fires two inches away from them.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:11Speaker 02

  I'm watching it like it's Sunday Night Football. These guys are so badass.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  They really are.

• 10:16Dax Shepard?

  The aerial stuff is blowing my mind. At night in a mountain range, zero visibility, Chinooks, everything right on top of each other, flying in complete blindness and dropping it bullseye every time. It's blowing away the Top Gun flight sequences.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  It really is, and I think that was their objective. They all watched Maverick before.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Thank God for Tom Cruise.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  They flew out there and they said, let's make it look as cool as possible.

• 10:41Dax Shepard?

  All things are true. It's a tragedy of really unimaginable proportion until we saw it. Also, the folks that have trained to fight fires in the craziest situation, they're enthralled. They're doing the job they've been training to do in the craziest circumstance. So I'm just imagining what it's like to be in the helicopter the whole time. It must be incredible to. Be able to put your skills to the test like that.

• 11:05Speaker 02

  I don't know if you've had this sensation watching them when they drop the fire retardant in the water. The precision with which they do it, it is exhilarating because you're like, fucking save that whole community, please. And they're doing it and it seems unthinkable because you see these massive flames heading towards these communities. It looks unstoppable and they are stopping it.

• 11:29Dax Shepard?

  It's a war and I have to admit, when I'm watching those heroin drops, many times I'm saying out loud by myself watching downstairs, fuck yeah.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then at the same time, you think about the too little, too late communities like the Palisades and like Pasadena. And it is heartbreaking and devastating for those people who aren't on the ground in SoCal. Let me tell you now, it's going to be years and we're going to need all the help we can get.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  That's my sort of plea is we're in it right now and we're in triage mode and we're dropping stuff off and we're X, Y, and Z, which is all great. We need to be doing it, but we need to be doing it in a month, in two months, in a year. This is going to be easy to forget, just like all natural disasters are, but this is a long haul and it's going to take a long time. I encourage people to keep an eye on us and keep donating and keep helping if you can, of course.

• 12:21Speaker 02

  If you can, in whatever way you can, even the amount of people who have lost clothes. We were speaking to a family who lost their home and we said, do you need anything? And they said, we don't have any clothes and it's just little things that you don't even think about. You think about all the possessions.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:36Speaker 02

  It's actually in a way really nice to be here. I needed a little bit of a distraction from the chaos.

• 12:42Dax Shepard?

  Well, and I wanted to ask you, because I sense just a hint of like, there's some ethical dilemma about doing something.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  When you asked me to come today, I definitely hesitated.

• 12:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  And I posted about this the other day. I am doing everything I can and none of it feels like enough. The reason I came on today was, I was like, oh, we can start by talking about this. That is actually making me feel better about sitting across from such a piece of shit like you who continues to do podcasts in these kinds of situations.

• 13:13Dax Shepard?

  The knee jerk would be all these people are suffering and I'm gonna go do this thing that has really no value outside of just entertainment and that feels like I shouldn't be having fun when my friends are suffering and dealing with loss. I think that's an obvious thing to contend with right out of the gates. But my thing is me joining people in misery isn't a solution. A it doesn't help them. It doesn't help me. I have a job and when I can do my job, I should do my job.

• 13:40Speaker 02

  Amen.

• 13:40Dax Shepard?

  All the other people are at their jobs. That's my takeaway. No one at 7-Eleven right now is going, do I feel guilty that I'm selling hot dogs right now when people are suffering? Like, no, I'm at my job because I have a job and that's my commitment. So that's my own personal takeaway on it.

• 13:54Speaker 02

  It's a great point. This morning, we actually had this conversation where I said to my wife, I'm gonna make a pot of coffee and she said, why don't you go to Starbucks, get it? And I said, well, I go to Starbucks. I don't want to go outside with the air. She goes, because the community needs that right now. Restaurants need the support. There are so many people who are fleeing right now and these places that aren't even in the line of fire are going to feel the effects of it. It is going to hurt everybody.

• 14:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's catastrophic. I'm also just coming off watching the Churchill four-part documentary on Netflix. And you're watching what the folks in London did 57 nights in a row of this.

• 14:30Speaker 02

  Have you ever read The Splendid and the Vile?

• 14:32Speaker 01

  That's Eric Larson.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Eric Larson, one of my favorite authors. Unbelievable.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  We've had him on the show, not to brag.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  Who Churchill?

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:38Dax Shepard?

  Yep, him too.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was great.

• 14:40Dax Shepard?

  Posthumously, but we had him.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  But yeah.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  You guys did like through Ouija, how did you do?

• 14:44Dax Shepard?

  AI, we talked to the estate.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  See, that's the promise. There's a downside, but that's the promise.

• 14:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I can chat with Churchill. But you know, those people were waking up in a subway platform next to six kids. There was no bathrooms and they went straight to work.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Unbelievable.

• 14:58Dax Shepard?

  They stayed calm and they carried on. So people will have complaints about me working, but that's my own ethic, which is no, stay calm, carry on.

• 15:05Speaker 02

  It's a great point. And stiff upper lip is exactly what I think of when I think of the British people going through that period. And it is true. We're unfortunately living through a period of post-apocalyptic situations. The reason I started writing my book, that was inspired by telling the story. Of parenting in what feels like it's the end of the world. I have had two children and most of their lives have been defined by pandemics, by disaster, by socio-political upheaval.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:37Speaker 02

  You never stop and think about it, but we lived and we grew up in a period in which we had great ease. The world was a very peaceful place in the context of history.

• 15:50Dax Shepard?

  But Josh.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  It wasn't. Think about Sapiens. Have you guys read?

• 15:53Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  We've had him on.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  I know you've had him on through AI.

• 15:57Dax Shepard?

  I wrote half of it.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  Think about what you've all said. We are living in the greatest time of prosperity and peace in the history of mankind.

• 16:05Dax Shepard?

  And lack of starvation and our handle on diseases. And really, by all metrics, what you're saying, which I also feel is objectively wrong. So yes, our tranquil eighties, our parents were freaked out by something much larger, which was you had Bay of Pigs. Nuclear Holocaust was on the table in a real way.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  Before we were born.

• 16:25Dax Shepard?

  No, 81. You were born in 81.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  He's not even looking at any cards right now.

• 16:29Dax Shepard?

  February 23rd.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 16:31Dax Shepard?

  1981.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:34Dax Shepard?

  The show The Day After was on NBC when you were five years old. That was a show about what do we do the day after the nuclear annihilation? The greatest existential crisis of all time on planet Earth was crescendoing when you were a little boy.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  I didn't remember it.

• 16:48Dax Shepard?

  You weren't really aware of it. And then prior to that, our parents, Vietnam and Kent State and shooting students.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  Again, before we were born.

• 16:55Dax Shepard?

  I'm just saying, our parents.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  Our parents definitely lived through a period of upheaval, the likes of which resonates with what we're going through today. Political leaders being assassinated one after another, the world on the precipice of nuclear war. My parents hiding under their desks. That was not my experience in the peaceful and prosperity bubble that I lived in.

• 17:17Dax Shepard?

  Playing with G.I. Joe in Hollywood.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  Eighties and 1990s.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  Now, that is not to say that everything was perfect, but it is certainly not to say that it wasn't better than what I'm raising my kids through right now, which is climate change is an existential crisis. The world. Seems like it's on the brink of chaos on a daily basis. We had a first of its kind pandemic, the first time in a century. We're doing this as half our city is on fire.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  I know.

• 17:44Speaker 02

  So it's that proximity to chaos. And that is not to say that areas of the world haven't experienced this.

• 17:52Dax Shepard?

  Oh, they're interviewing last night, I'm watching on Kcal. You've got a family that just came here from Ukraine escaping the war and their apartment building burns down. Oh, those people are going from war zone to war zone.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Israel and Palestine.

• 18:05Speaker 02

  Israel, Palestine. It's happening on a global level. And it's not to say that there hasn't been places that have been directly affected by genocide, by starvation, by all sorts of crises during the past 40 years. But this period feels particularly dark.

• 18:25Dax Shepard?

  I just want to push back and say it feels unique, but I actually think it's completely consistent with what happens on planet Earth. So when we were Carnegie Mellon, you had the Serbian Croatia genocide with like a million and a half people. And the kind of things they were doing to the people as they killed them, they really surpassed anything that's happened.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  You think about Rwanda.

• 18:45Dax Shepard?

  Rwanda, so it's been ever present. And I think the real thing to remember is it's a challenging place. There's seven billion of us, a lot of shit goes wrong, a ton of stuff goes right. We're not unique and we gotta carry on and we gotta continue to make it a little bit better. Because this is status quo on planet Earth. It just feels because we're raising kids now, so we have a different lens than we would have had if even we went through the pandemic without kids. Like, oh, this is kind of cool. You drink all day and you hang out with friends and blah, blah, blah. But now that we have kids, you're like, wow, they haven't seen other children for a year. That feels scary. So I just think our lens obviously changes because we have these little people we care about so much. And we're turning this world over to them and we're a little scared like, what are we turning over?

• 19:27Speaker 02

  That's a hundred percent true. And it's also, I think, frustrating that we don't learn from history. That when it comes to, for instance, geopolitical conflict, there are certain things outside of our control. The pandemic, for the most part, was outside of any. Anyone's control.

• 19:43Dax Shepard?

  This fire is.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  This is outside of anyone's control.

• 19:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there's all these people want to be mad at the mayor. They want to be mad at the governor. They want to be mad. Like so many people are trying to line up and blame this horrific thing on a single individual. It's like Yang, blame Santa Anna Wim.

• 19:57Speaker 02

  It is really, really hard for me to think about at a time like this criticizing anyone.

• 20:04Dax Shepard?

  Do you see the video that Karen ambushing Newsom?

• 20:07Speaker 02

  I saw it. But by the way, in the same way, I never hold DeSantis responsible for the destruction of hurricanes. I grew up in South Florida. I know the pain and the chaos of those events. I lived through Hurricane Andrew. Only so much you can do preventatively, and there's only so much you can do during the crisis. Really, your job as a leader is what you do after, what you do to speak calm to people during, and then how you rebuild.

• 20:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 20:37Speaker 02

  I know. You were gonna say, see, you lived through.

• 20:39Speaker 01

  You lived through a hurricane. We just forgot. And also nine 11, terrorism, like, our memories are so short.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, they are.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  We do forget that we go through these horrible periods and we recover from those periods and then they come back. You know, it is all temporary. It's really hard to say right now.

• 20:57Dax Shepard?

  Sarah, say that. He's one of our most treasured guests.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  Sacraligious.

• 21:01Dax Shepard?

  Well, it's funny. I was thinking, I was reading your book this morning, and you have the line in there, which is comedy is tragedy plus time. And I was like, well, we're gonna engage without the benefit of time.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 21:11Dax Shepard?

  We've had polar on. We've had a lot of different people who was like, some people's first week on Saturday Night Live was nine 15. People have had to decide whether or not they're gonna carry on.

• 21:20Speaker 02

  I remember that episode. That was Giuliani coming on.

• 21:23Dax Shepard?

  Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But them having the ethical dilemma, is it appropriate to be funny right now? And everyone gets to choose how they handle the stress. And so I have a way of handling the stress, and mine is through laughing. And all I would ask is like, if that's not your way of handling stress, that's cool. Do it however you want. But I don't think anyone can tell someone else what they're allowed to do to handle it.

• 21:48Speaker 02

  Amen.

• 21:48Dax Shepard?

  I promise you, if my house was engulfed in flames, I would be making a Joke cuz I've done it. I'm making a joke when my dad's dying. This is how I process it.

• 21:57Speaker 02

  That's how I process grief too. It's therapeutic and it's not appropriate for everyone, but it is how I'm wired and I've always been unapologetic about that.

• 22:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 22:07Speaker 02

  My grandparents told me themselves that when they were in the Holocaust, a lot of how they got through their daily lives and being on the brink of death on a daily basis was by laughing.

• 22:18Dax Shepard?

  If you can give yourself that little burst of happiness, it's a reminder that it's still possible on the other side. It's a great reminder like, oh yes, and I will laugh and I will experience fun and levity. For me, everyone gets to do it their own way.

• 22:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, this has been great, guys. Thank you so much.

• 22:35Dax Shepard?

  We processed it all for the nation.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  Cause I couldn't get my therapist on the phone today, so this ended up being a good.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  Because their house was burned down.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  Cause you no longer have a phone, a landline. I'm glad that you guys were here for me. Thank you.

• 22:49Dax Shepard?

  Where you got, you're leaving though, right? You're deserting this town in its time of need. With all that stuff you deserve.

• 22:56Speaker 02

  Having said that, I think it's best to get out of here while the going is good. No, we're sticking close right now. We have discussed leaving because of air quality.

• 23:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 23:06Speaker 02

  We live on the west side, very close to the fires right now. We're talking about it. We're talking about, do we maybe go like an hour south or north just to get the kids to be able to go outside? I'm supposed to leave tomorrow for my book tour.

• 23:21Dax Shepard?

  Yes, that's what I meant.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  And I was gonna cancel it and to your point, my wife said absolutely not.

• 23:26Dax Shepard?

  How's that helping anybody if you?

• 23:28Speaker 02

  Well, that's what she said. She said, you are actually more of a burden if I'm evacuating than you are a help. And so I think it's best for our family if you leave.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  That you go.

• 23:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, go to New York where you're useful.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  Leave LA where you're a burden to this family. You piece of shit.

• 23:46Dax Shepard?

  But also, I just want to touch on one other thing. Yesterday, I was like, I need to stay on my bike riding schedule. I have a New Year's resolution that I ride to the observatory twice a week. So yesterday I get out there and I start riding up the hill and the gates are closed to go up into Griffith Park, but I'm presuming for cars. And so I go around the gate and I get halfway up the thing and then some Rangers roll down on a loudspeaker and they let me have it a little bit and they're like, it's closed. And I go, oh yeah, to cars. And they're like, no, it's closed. There's no way I can, all that to say, I'm like, why can't I ride my bike? Get home and I realize, oh, all these motherfuckers, there are arsonists out.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 24:20Dax Shepard?

  In force. So they have no clue who is up in the hills to start a fire.

• 24:26Speaker 02

  They've arrested two already.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:28Speaker 02

  By the way, you were probably like a prime suspect to them because you look.

• 24:33Dax Shepard?

  Like a piece of shit.

• 24:34Speaker 02

  Like a real piece of shit. You look like the guy from the Titanic who took all the.

• 24:38Dax Shepard?

  Same again.

• 24:40Speaker 02

  But with beautiful hair. I do think it is tough because to go back to what I said at the beginning, I've seen such greatness and I've seen such beauty in this city and I've also seen such ugliness.

• 24:53Dax Shepard?

  We're all here.

• 24:54Speaker 02

  The looting, the people fucking flying their drones and affecting planes from dropping water. Fuck you all.

• 25:04Dax Shepard?

  I know.

• 25:04Speaker 02

  And then the arsonists, people fucking going around and lighting wildfires.

• 25:09Dax Shepard?

  People setting their houses on fire.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  Yep. And so that part of it remains really heartbreaking, really frustrating.

• 25:15Dax Shepard?

  And this is where we file into our, like our natural state. So yesterday Kristen is out.

• 25:20Speaker 02

  This is Kristen Bell, for those who don't know.

• 25:22Dax Shepard?

  Your co-star from the films.

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Ah, yes.

• 25:24Dax Shepard?

  Frozen one and two and hopefully three at some point.

• 25:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:26Dax Shepard?

  She's out doing the Lord's work with the children and I'm selfishly taking a bike ride. But I'm also nonstop with my buddy Brandon from the LAPD. She's thinking about helping and I'm thinking, yeah, I can feel the energy. I was at the gas station late at night and a lot of the boys were out on dirt bikes and it felt like Detroit on Devil's Night. I was like, yeah, the young men are going to get into some shit. I get it. She's out helping, but I'm like, okay, we got some chance. I will have to defend the family at some point. That's where my focus ends up.

• 25:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:57Dax Shepard?

  We all just kind of funnel into wherever.

• 25:59Speaker 02

  I don't have friends at the LAPD and now I feel like I should.

• 26:04Dax Shepard?

  Would you like me to put you on a group text with Brandon?

• 26:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. If I see anything suspicious, I'd like someone official to reach out to.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's also status right now. Like it's really cool to be friends with a firefighter right now.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  You have a direct number. I've got just three nine one one. That's all I know.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  The three numbers.

• 26:22Speaker 02

  I just have the three numbers everyone has.

• 26:24Dax Shepard?

  It sounds like you're not going to play it super cool if I do give you his number though.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  I'm telling you now, I won't.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  Do you want to role play?

• 26:29Speaker 02

  I'm telling you now, it would be like putting me on a text chain with Harrison Ford.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  Hey, bro.

• 26:36Dax Shepard?

  What kind of gun do you carry, Brandon?

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Did you report these potential hooligans?

• 26:42Dax Shepard?

  No, I just hit him up and I said, I was just at the gas station. The boys are out. He's also from Detroit. I'm like, it feels like Devil's Night Detroit. And he goes, yeah, isn't it wild? You can feel it in the air. I'm like, yeah, it's like palpable. If you used to be a scumbag, I'm on that wavelength. I said, if I'm 21 and I'm broke, which I was, and I'm drunk and I think, oh yeah, all these rich people's house burnt down. They took a bunch of stuff, but probably there's a bunch of jewelry and stuff just sitting on the ground. Your mind starts wandering and I don't have anything and they have everything. Even someone who's on the spectrum of dirtbaggery, they can be midway through and convince themselves. You can just see people making the argument, or at least I can see that happening.

• 27:23Speaker 02

  I think that there's a lot of people taking advantage of a horrible situation right now.

• 27:28Dax Shepard?

  They'll feel bad for it at 50.

• 27:30Speaker 02

  You will either eventually pay a price.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  Or you will eventually regret it and it's horrible to take advantage of people in any situation who have already lost so much.

• 27:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. To prey on people who are victims is a rough look. But again, if you're penniless in the middle of nowhere and you're looking at multimillionaires.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  Are you planning on doing this tonight? It sounds like you're.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  Talking it through in a way.

• 27:53Speaker 02

  You're really like starting to strategize.

• 27:54Dax Shepard?

  I'm saying I'd be lying if I couldn't understand the rationale.

• 27:58Speaker 02

  Am I at risk from?

• 28:00Speaker 02

  Are you like chasing my house right now?

• 28:03Dax Shepard?

  Well, I did notice you upgraded. Last time you were here in a Lexus 300 four door sedan.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  Right. You're clocking.

• 28:09Dax Shepard?

  And now you're in an upgraded Lexus SUV. That's a nice car.

• 28:13Speaker 02

  What are you doing right now? I feel very uncomfortable. I couldn't even tell you what my last car was.

• 28:19Dax Shepard?

  It was black.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  Oh gee.

• 28:21Dax Shepard?

  Right? You parked it right over here and we took a long look at it because I said, this is the car I put you in. It's so South Florida. I was like, this is your car.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  Do you feel like when you look at my new car, do you understand why I'm driving in that one? Or are you sort of like, this doesn't fit as well?

• 28:37Dax Shepard?

  I do understand it. First of all, I don't own any of them, but they're great cars. You can drive them for a million miles.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  I love them. They get the job done.

• 28:44Dax Shepard?

  They're not flashy, but they're comfortable.

• 28:46Speaker 02

  But I'm going to tell you this now. I've never been a car guy.

• 28:49Dax Shepard?

  I know.

• 28:49Speaker 02

  I'm jealous of all of my friends who know every model and make of every car. And I can't do that. I've never operated like that. I look for a nice interior.

• 29:00Dax Shepard?

  That's right. In a quiet, soft ride.

• 29:02Speaker 02

  Great stereo.

• 29:03Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 29:03Speaker 02

  And it can get me from point A to point C.

• 29:06Dax Shepard?

  Exterior color is immaterial. You probably don't care about that.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  No, I'm jealous that you have such a knowledge of cool cars.

• 29:13Dax Shepard?

  I'd imagine what he's jealous of, and I don't want to speak for you. You're jealous of my enthusiasm because I get this.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  I'm jealous of hobbyists in general.

• 29:21Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 29:21Speaker 02

  So if you have a knowledge of something niche or something specific, I am jealous because I love knowledge. I love to collect knowledge. I love people who know something so well. That is very attractive to me. I'm like, that's really cool to have great expertise. It's why I love your show. You collect knowledge for a living. This particular episode is making people stupider. But in general, when you have experts.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  That list of numbers, remember?

• 29:54Speaker 02

  We got that list of numbers that I'm going to delegate.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  But what I love is that that's what you do. You invite people on this show who are experts in different areas.

• 30:08Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it's so great.

• 30:09Speaker 02

  It's the coolest thing. Are you gonna add my book to your bookshelf behind you?

• 30:13Dax Shepard?

  Absolutely. I wanted to start this episode, it's too late, but we've never started with a hard like this. And I wanted it to go. Hi, if you're joining us, we're here with Josh Gad, author of In Gad. That just felt like something I never got to do.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  That's such a PBS 1979.

• 30:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, as if the interviewer would be just finishing.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:33Dax Shepard?

  Oh, what a book. If you're just joining us, we're with Josh Gad, author of In Gad We Trust.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  Do you think there was another world in which you were born, maybe like 20 years earlier, that you ended up on NPR? Or do you think your career would have gone stern, like before podcasts?

• 30:49Dax Shepard?

  I could answer, but I don't trust what the answer would be. I think my soul and heart always wanted to be NPR, but I grew up in an area where toxic masculinity was the currency. I didn't have a dad and I was doing all the things. So I would like to believe, yes, I would have become Ira Glass, but the truth is, I probably would have tried to be a knockoff Howard Stern.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 31:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, not as good as Howard Stern. So I've just through many years been able to finally pursue and embrace the person the little boy wanted to be and not necessarily the agro dude that was sending a message to everyone not to try to hurt me.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  Still there.

• 31:22Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  As someone who edits, I think it's more stern.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  Than it is NPR in a great way. Who doesn't love?

• 31:29Speaker 02

  But you know what's great about Stern too? I think like Dax, Stern could have ended up easily on NPR. I think Stern has the capacity and the skillset to be equally riveting on NPR as he is.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  But he's choosing his authentic honesty over.

• 31:45Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  I love NPR, I don't want to be disparaging, but that's more curated and Stern is more honest.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  NPR has very wet mouths.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  Oh, ew.

• 31:52Speaker 02

  When you listen to NPR, it's a very moist. Don't be upset about it. It's an observation, but you know I'm right.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  There's like a quality that's very intimate and very wet.

• 32:05Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I admire. They're like great comedians who their pacing so slow and they're not scared. They talk so slow and monotone and they're not worried at all. They're losing people. In fact, the more boring is the more into it I am.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 32:16Dax Shepard?

  But what I think you're highlighting, which is worth highlighting is our heroes. They were Trojan horses. Letterman came with the promise of irreverent provocative comedy. But what you stayed for and fell in love with is you were like, oh, I think he's always smarter than the person he's talking to.

• 32:33Speaker 02

  Did you ever do Letterman?

• 32:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 32:35Speaker 02

  He was the one host who always intimidated me.

• 32:39Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it's so scary.

• 32:40Speaker 02

  Because you know, he's smarter. This was the same thing being on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. When I had to sit and pitch something to Jon, I have never been more intimidated in my life.

• 32:48Speaker 01

  That's so scary.

• 32:49Dax Shepard?

  He scares me.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  He's the smartest man in every room and he just knows better than you know what's funny and what's gonna work and what is not gonna work.

• 32:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  And how to articulate it all.

• 33:01Dax Shepard?

  And the delivery. Somehow he's confrontational without ever feeling like a bully. He's magic. But Stern's the same thing. You come for him making fun of Ronnie, but really it's the intelligence that keeps you there for a long time. And Conan, Conan is so insanely smart. It's crazy. So he's making dumb dumb jokes, but you know, there's this intelligence behind it. And I think for me, that's the appeal of all those guys.

• 33:23Speaker 02

  Yes, I agree.

• 33:26Dax Shepard?

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. This episode is brought to you by Dell. Gifts mean more when they have the power to give more. They can inspire more discovery, give more confidence and unwrap more of who you are. This Black Friday, give a gift that goes beyond the box. The Dell XPS 13 laptop with a beautiful design and cutting edge performance. It helps you unlock more possibilities. It's the thinnest, lightest XPS laptop yet with touchscreen, a backlit keyboard and long lasting battery life to power you through your day. Built with a durable aluminum chassis, weighing just 2.2 pounds and Intel Core processors.

• 34:09Dax Shepard?

  It's fast, reliable and portable enough to keep up wherever you go. Visit dell.com to explore the possibilities of XPS. While shopping, you'll also find great perks like Dell Rewards. Fast free shipping, premium support and financing with flexible payment options. Plus you can find great deals on monitors and accessories. That means you can score a whole new setup now for less. This Black Friday sale is one you don't want to miss. Head to dell.com/deals. That's dell.com/deals.

• 34:43Dax Shepard?

  We are supported by Squarespace. So here's something I think about a lot. Most people I talk to on this show, the ones doing really interesting things. They all had a version of their work that existed before anyone else saw it. It was just theirs, notes, ideas, projects they were tinkering with. And then at some point they made the decision to share it. That's the part that's scary, right? Going from I'm working on something to here's what I made. Rob went through the exact same thing, building our site on Squarespace. And what made it doable was that he didn't have to become a web developer overnight. He just had to show up with the idea. Squarespace handles the rest. Beautiful templates that actually look like you hired someone, built in SEO. So people can find you. Email campaigns, scheduling, analytics, all under one roof. No code, no patchwork of random tools.

• 35:28Dax Shepard?

  And honestly, the thing I keep coming back to is how low the barrier is. If you've got something you've been building quietly and you're ready for people to see it. Squarespace makes that leap feel a lot less traumatic. Head to squarespace.com/dax for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code DAX to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

• 35:50Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Skims. Okay, I have a confession. I genuinely love matching pajamas. It's the best part of Christmas morning, really. Everyone in the same matching set, looking ridiculously cute in front of the tree.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  I love matching pajamas. I'm literally going to be in coordinating sets with all my friends this holiday season. Because I got them, spoiler to my friends who are listening. The same Skims pajama set I've been living in. They are so soft and cozy and they look cute. So you can leave the house and go get a late night hot chocolate, be cozy.

• 36:25Dax Shepard?

  It's so great how Skims has sets for everyone too. Women's, men's, kids, even your pets. So nobody in your life has to be left out this year.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  I have a bunch of different pajama sets. One of my favorite is the organic cotton sleep long sleeve set.

• 36:41Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  It is so comfortable, very chic, too. The top is a button down, but very, very soft, easy to sleep in. But as I said before, you can multi-purpose this and look super cute.

• 36:54Dax Shepard?

  Hot chocolate runs. It's like the pajamas we grew up in, except without the scratchy polyester that made opening presents feel more like a hot yoga class that nobody signed up for.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  All the nostalgia, none of the discomfort. Shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select Armature Expert in the dropdown menu that follows. If you're looking for the perfect gifts for everyone on your list, the Skims Holiday Shop is now open at skims.com.

• 37:23Dax Shepard?

  We get support from NoBull. The holidays can get hectic. You finally hit a post-summer routine and suddenly you're on hosting duty every week.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  That's when you really need to ground yourself.

• 37:35Dax Shepard?

  Exactly. And that's why I keep my training routine through the holidays. It's the whole NoBull idea. There's a no bullshit training brand built around consistency, honesty, and just putting in the work. It's not about adding more pressure to an already packed schedule. It's about having the gear and the habits to move through the season your way. My personal favorite, all three of the shoes are fantastic. The Outwork, the Outwork Flex, and the Drive 2. I like the Drive 2 because it's a hybrid and I lift, of course, but I also like to do what's called box jumps.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 38:06Dax Shepard?

  Right? I do a lot of jumping onto a little platform and I want a little more flexibility and boy, do they deliver.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  And if you're a cardio person and you're running and you also need to be lifting.

• 38:16Dax Shepard?

  And the style is banging. I don't know what to say. Beautiful style, very breathable, very, very comfortable, lots of support. They were built for lifting.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  They also make a great holiday gift. You know, I love gifting, a purposeful one that actually supports someone's goals and routines, and it's not a gift that just ends up in the back of a closet.

• 38:33Dax Shepard?

  Stay stronger than the season. Head to nobullproject.com all holiday season to shop new deals every week.

• 38:48Dax Shepard?

  So I went back, we're almost exactly at five years since you were here last time.

• 38:52Speaker 02

  Is that right?

• 38:52Dax Shepard?

  Would you have thought that?

• 38:53Speaker 02

  No, I don't think about the show very much.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 38:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, of course.

• 38:57Speaker 02

  I mean, I don't remember your car.

• 38:58Dax Shepard?

  To save your family's life, if I said, how long ago were you here? What answer would you have?

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Oh, man, I don't want to say goodbye to my family.

• 39:05Dax Shepard?

  You better get this right.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I better get this right.

• 39:09Dax Shepard?

  No, I think it's the perfect.

• 39:10Speaker 02

  This has become very ominous, this episode. Yeah, five years, that feels right. But I remember doing a guest spot or another appearance.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  You've done Christmas with us.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  That's what I did. Then that was after. So that's why I feel like it hasn't been five years because you invited me like today as a last minute sort of we need filler. Gad is good for filler episode.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  No, you're a home run.

• 39:35Dax Shepard?

  Just to alleviate any shadow talk you're having. I said to my wife, I'm fucked. I don't really know what to do. We had two episodes that were going to easily come out because I was going to record them on Thursday and I don't know what to do. I'm like, who's in town and who would even be willing? So we start thinking and then I walk by on our kitchen table, your book is sitting. And I go, well, fuck, Gad's gotta be promoting this book. Call him. It wasn't, let's go to the end of the list. It was like God, Gad, set this book on my fucking dining room table. And I was like, oh duh, he's got a book to promote. He should be in anyways.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  So was it pre pandemic?

• 40:09Dax Shepard?

  Uh, yeah, February 20. Yeah, it was right before your birthday.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  Oh my.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  Right before the pandemic hit and right in the middle of a fire.

• 40:16Dax Shepard?

  Can't wait to see you when the dinosaurs come out of the ocean and start gobbling up people.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  I'm really concerned about my third appearance on this show. I don't know where we are. Live from the set of Hell, here's Josh Gad.

• 40:29Dax Shepard?

  From the bowels of hell. Can I tell you what I love about you? You are so fast and witty and fun and I am, I don't want to label it competitive, but I'm not going to let someone operate at 120 miles an hour while I'm next to them going 60. It's just not in my nature.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  That's why you case their cars. That's why you know everything you need to know about them so you can hurt them if they try.

• 40:51Dax Shepard?

  You think so fast and you're so funny that it brings. Brings out the best side of myself.

• 40:55Speaker 02

  But I'm not an expert in anything.

• 40:57Dax Shepard?

  That's not true.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  Am I?

• 40:58Dax Shepard?

  This whole fucking forensic NFL bullshit I was learning about.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  Isn't that crazy?

• 41:02Dax Shepard?

  Nerdy, like I'm reading words I've never read before.

• 41:05Speaker 02

  Like I talk about in my book, I thought it was the chopping up of dead bodies for investigative purposes. And instead, it's actually a thing that high schoolers do, which is another word for speech and debate. And so I'll get stopped today, not today, because.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Today, we're in the middle of something.

• 41:22Dax Shepard?

  There's bigger fish to fry today.

• 41:23Speaker 02

  But maybe next month again, people will be willing to come up to me and say, I know you from high school. But people watch my high school videos from speech and debate and forensics.

• 41:33Dax Shepard?

  Well, you're a three time national champ.

• 41:36Speaker 02

  You have more respect for me than you've ever had.

• 41:38Dax Shepard?

  Cause she's a two time national champ.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  Are you?

• 41:40Speaker 01

  State, I'm a two time state champ cheerleading.

• 41:42Speaker 02

  I never did that.

• 41:43Speaker 01

  Competition cheerleading.

• 41:44Dax Shepard?

  But it's in your list of things.

• 41:45Speaker 01

  How hard it is to do.

• 41:47Speaker 02

  Cheerleading?

• 41:47Speaker 01

  No, just winning anything at that level when you're in high school.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  So I didn't make the cheer team.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  But you tried?

• 41:54Speaker 02

  Multiple times.

• 41:55Dax Shepard?

  In his book, he lays out the options for a high schooler. And he's like, okay, the jocks are the athletes, not gonna happen.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  Pretty accurate.

• 42:03Dax Shepard?

  Cheerleading, I just don't fit in the outfits, you said.

• 42:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:06Dax Shepard?

  And then Model UN, insufferable. And then you get to forensics.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  And so like I fit that group, because it's got a performative element to it. Never learned how to play chess, still to this day, don't know how to play chess. I would have been the kind of guy that played chess, but nobody taught me how. This what not having a father around does is you don't learn things like love of cars, how to play chess. I missed all of that. So I was like, oh, speech and debate. That feels like something I can do. A lot of how I fell into this was through that world.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  Well, that's another thing that not having a father around will do. It will make you a performer and a comedian.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  It really will.

• 42:47Dax Shepard?

  I'm so glad that you start the book in the way you do. First of all, it's very, very well written. Did you write it?

• 42:51Speaker 02

  No, ChatGPT.

• 42:52Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  Everything.

• 42:53Dax Shepard?

  God, they got your voice.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  They really do. They have it down.

• 42:57Dax Shepard?

  It's really, really well written, but you start with your personal story, which of course starts with your parents. And we touched on it last time, but your dad's almost out. Of a movie. Tell people about where your dad came from.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  We've had this conversation, but every time it surprises you.

• 43:10Dax Shepard?

  Well, the Columbia part was new to me. The Emerald Trade.

• 43:14Speaker 02

  It is out of a movie. My dad was a Jew born in Afghanistan.

• 43:18Dax Shepard?

  Which was maybe their third or fourth stop.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  Correct. They were nomads. You can actually trace my lineage back to one of the original tribes of Israel, the Gad tribe. They were just going from place to place and being told, no, you are not welcome here. And surprisingly, Afghanistan, which seems like a great place for Jews, turned out not to be.

• 43:36Dax Shepard?

  I always think about Jewish, the next stop, Kabul.

• 43:39Speaker 02

  My father got into precious jewels along with his brothers in Israel.

• 43:45Dax Shepard?

  They then moved to Israel when he's 12 and he learns to cut diamonds there.

• 43:48Speaker 02

  When you're 12 years old, that's a great, great way to make a living.

• 43:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  And so by day he was doing that and by night he was a bodybuilder.

• 43:56Dax Shepard?

  Not what I'm expecting.

• 43:57Speaker 02

  No, and I have a picture in there, I think of my dad just ripped. I mean, he looked like Venice Beach Schwarzenegger, really crazy.

• 44:05Dax Shepard?

  That's who we talked about last time.

• 44:07Speaker 02

  He looks like Kumail.

• 44:08Dax Shepard?

  His body had just been unveiled five years ago.

• 44:10Speaker 02

  Right from Marvel. He looked like Marvel era Kumail. Does Kumail still look like my dad?

• 44:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I've been texting him like nonstop about our bodies. He's my only outlet to send shirtless photos of myself anywhere. Really? I can't send them to.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  Do you think Kumail would welcome me sending him shirtless pictures of myself?

• 44:26Dax Shepard?

  We love the mail form.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  All right, I'm gonna send him.

• 44:28Dax Shepard?

  You should.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  No contact.

• 44:31Dax Shepard?

  I'm giving you Brandon's number from the L A P D and then Kumail's.

• 44:35Speaker 02

  All on a chain.

• 44:35Dax Shepard?

  Oh my gosh, the L A P D buddy would be like, get me the fuck off this chain.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  So anyway, my dad and his brothers end up moving to the United States and they decide to start an Emerald business. My father moves to Columbia. They own Emerald Mines.

• 44:50Dax Shepard?

  In the eighties, at the peak of Pablo Escobar.

• 44:54Speaker 02

  I remember traveling to Columbia at the age of four and I just remember seeing armed people all around my father. And just Uzis, like automatic weapons, not even semis, and just thinking to myself, wait, is this what everyone's dad does?

• 45:14Speaker 02

  So confused. All my friends' fathers were doctors or lawyers in South Florida. And my dad was literally in the middle of the jungles of Colombia, surrounded by dangerous people. He was always a larger than life guy when I was growing up. My parents got divorced when I was six and I talk about my relationship after that. But what I also talk about in the book, which we've never spoken about was I haven't seen my dad in about 20 years. And I get a call one day while I'm doing Gutenberg, which you were so gracious enough to come to.

• 45:46Dax Shepard?

  So much fun.

• 45:47Speaker 02

  And my dad is in New Jersey and he says, I'd love to come see your show.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  This is like a couple of years ago?

• 45:55Speaker 02

  This is last year.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 45:57Speaker 02

  And I said, okay, I think he's on his third or fourth family now. And I said, come alone, I'll send a car for you and why don't you stay the night?

• 46:07Dax Shepard?

  Wow, that's nice.

• 46:08Speaker 02

  And I was very anxious about it and he comes to the theater. I'm looking for him in the audience. I don't see him.

• 46:14Dax Shepard?

  Are you like eight years old?

• 46:15Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. It's Halloween night. Andrew and I, after the show, decide to dress up as the mommy dearest characters. He's the Faye Dunaway character. I'm the daughter.

• 46:26Dax Shepard?

  Is he holding a coat hanger?

• 46:27Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 46:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  And I look at Andrew after the show and I said, I need you to come with me. I'm very nervous about this. So we go out, both dressed as women. My father's never seen me on stage in my life.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  Even as a kid, he was not the dad who came to my shows.

• 46:46Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  So this is the first time my father's ever seen me on stage. I come out and I see a man that I know immediately and yet don't recognize at all. It was both exhilarating and really painful. I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how to interact. He looked frailer than I remember.

• 47:07Dax Shepard?

  Was pretty old, right?

• 47:09Speaker 02

  He's in his late seventies, but the gregarious person that I am, that's from my father.

• 47:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 47:15Speaker 02

  I think about my dad as this invincible figure, a force of nature. And he's not that. So Andrew.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  It was amazing, sort of helping me navigate it. I get in the car with my dad. He's hard of hearing. English is his like third language. So he's repeating to me that he was telling everybody that he was sitting next to, that I'm his son and he was so proud. But also I could tell he understood none of the fucking jokes in the show and just saw everyone laughing and so started laughing with him.

• 47:46Dax Shepard?

  Great show for him. It's almost Cirque du Soleil. You could not speak English and very much understand what is happening.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  Just unbridled chaos.

• 47:52Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  We go back to my place and I order us some sandwiches. And I realized that like, I'm the father.

• 48:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  In this situation.

• 48:04Speaker 01

  Well, you've always been, really.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. We start talking. He starts telling me about his life. It's incredibly awkward at first and then incredibly easy. And then I start to fall back into like, being a kid again. I don't know how to describe it. I start to feel like I'm in my eight year old body. And I'm talking to this man who approximates my father. And I can also tell that there's extreme memory loss going on from him.

• 48:34Dax Shepard?

  Could you sense this was a mission of repair? Or just curiosity?

• 48:38Speaker 02

  I think it was neither of those things. I think it was. My son's in New York. I'm here. I'd like to see him. And we'll go from there. As simple as that.

• 48:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 48:50Speaker 02

  There's no question in my mind that my father loves me dearly. What he did to me and my family doesn't support that.

• 48:58Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 48:59Speaker 02

  But he has never not expressed his own form and his own idea of love. So we're sitting there, we're talking, and it starts to become very apparent to me that he's lost everything. He's living on welfare.

• 49:12Dax Shepard?

  Wow, cuz he was a kinda high roller.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  He owned, I think, the largest producing mine in Colombia. Had he held on to that, we would have been billionaires.

• 49:23Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right.

• 49:24Speaker 02

  And lost it all, as there always is. He and his partner fucked each other and all paid the price. So I'm sitting there and this guy who I always was like, oh my God, he's invincible. Is now like Al Pacino in Godfather three.

• 49:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  The next morning, I hug him, I get him a car and I give him his jacket and he goes, what's that? And I said, it's your jacket. And he goes, it's not my jacket. And I go, that's your jacket, Dad. This is not my jacket. And then I put it on him and I say, this is the jacket you came in. And it occurs to me, perhaps this is the last time, A, my father recognizes me. He's not the kind of guy who will go to a doctor and it seems to me like there's something debilitating going on. And I love him and so I wish he would, but I'm also having this moment of going, is this where this journey ends for us? And if it does, I'm so grateful I had this. I lied to my mom. I didn't tell her that I saw him.

• 50:20Dax Shepard?

  That's a pattern because I think one of the meanest things he did to you without probably any awareness that it was mean. He's left when Josh is a kid. Josh has no idea why they got divorced. Mom throws him out. And then when he's eight, two years later, he invites him to the Sheridan. By the way, that was the place when we were kids.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  Oh, it was.

• 50:38Dax Shepard?

  Remember the Sheridan?

• 50:38Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 50:39Dax Shepard?

  My mom took us there to tell us she was divorcing my third dad.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  Why is that?

• 50:42Dax Shepard?

  That was like the Four Seasons for us. So you get invited to the Sheridan.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  And he says, surprise, and introduces me to his mistress and their son from Columbia.

• 50:54Dax Shepard?

  The dad had another family.

• 50:56Speaker 02

  I didn't know what to do with that. I made, I start spiraling.

• 50:59Dax Shepard?

  And he swears you to secrecy. This is the cruelty that he probably wasn't even aware of.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  He was oblivious. My dad doesn't operate in familiar ways that we understand responsible parents. And I'm grateful for that because man, did it fucking teach me how to be a great parent.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:15Speaker 02

  I'm sure you have the same sort of experience of learning from mistakes and vowing to never fucking repeat those mistakes.

• 51:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Just gonna share one part of my story because I happened to be writing about it just recently. Even at a young age, I was a little skeptical. So I would go to his house on the weekends and he was so loving. That's a gift I had. He was so affectionate for a dad in the eighties. He hugged us and kissed us and snuggled us and showered us in love. And he wasn't around. So there's this like huge disconnect from like what I would feel in that moment. But then the actions afterwards never matched it. And it just created this huge dissonance where I'm like, what is this? I appear to be the most important thing in the world. And then I don't see him for three weeks and he doesn't show up for my brother's field hockey games. We all know. Very important to my brother. And also, how's he living this kind of rich lifestyle? And we're fucking dead broke. How's that happening?

• 52:05Dax Shepard?

  So there's all this really just confusing, how do I compute the messages versus the actions?

• 52:11Speaker 02

  The exact same story, except my dad would go months at a time and would live in another country.

• 52:16Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  With one of his many other, you know, fuck buddies.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  It makes love so confusing for the rest of your life, I assume.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  Who's to say what's real and what's not real? But then that's the question you live with forever. What is real?

• 52:30Speaker 02

  I vividly remember sitting at the window in my home in Hollywood, Florida, waiting for my father to show up on countless nights where he never came. And my mom knew he wasn't going to come and he would tell me he was coming. And I believed he was coming and then he wouldn't show up. And I talk about this in my book too, which is the sort of the kismet of my Disney journey. Is the one place my father would always take me when I was growing up was Disney World.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  And so Disney World became a symbol of my relationship with my father. And Disney escapism became the salve that was healing any sort of absence that I felt in my life.

• 53:17Dax Shepard?

  I also think it sets you up for this pattern you then replicate in life where it's just like highs, lows, highs, lows. Right? Cause the dads are always winning you back over. They feel bad and whether they are consciously aware of it or subconsciously. But yeah, when they have you, they're putting on this incredible show and they're going to make up for all this time. So it's like, you get pretty used to these insane spikes of love bombiness and then nothing.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  Disappearance.

• 53:37Dax Shepard?

  For me, it can kind of fuck up all relationships going forward. Cause it's like, this is the pattern of love.

• 53:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, it can. It had the opposite effect on me and my brothers. I have such an incredible mother. My mom was so badass. And despite the emotional shrapnel that I felt as a result of her divorce. And I've had to heal and talk to her about that and forgive that. Because I didn't understand at the time that her mood swings. And her anger and my brothers having moved to college, I was the only one in the house who was absorbing that. And that was scary and that was lonely and the birth of comedy.

• 54:21Dax Shepard?

  Big time.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  And it was a birth of comedy because as a result of her pain and her depression, I somehow found this weapon where I was able to make her laugh. And I was like, that's something. And tapping into that and then making that a career came from the seeds of that despair, as it often does, I would imagine. But that was hard.

• 54:42Dax Shepard?

  When you were choosing to honor your dad's request to keep the other family's secret, was that out of loyalty to him? Or were you afraid of how that would make your mom feel to know?

• 54:53Speaker 02

  A hundred percent the latter.

• 54:54Dax Shepard?

  The latter, right. You're responsible for mom's mood as a little boy. You're protecting her feelings from finding out about the other family. There's a lot of adulting going on.

• 55:05Speaker 02

  I grew up too fast and I didn't grow up enough. I'm jealous of my friends who had both parents till they were 18 at least, and then a later divorce, I think, is sometimes maybe better, sometimes maybe worse. For me, it was a very different experience than it was for my brothers. My brothers were 10 and eight years older and they got the family journey. Mine was ripped away at six. You don't have the skills to process that. And so I became very destructive. I would lie constantly to my mom. I was doing horribly in school. It is almost impossible to flunk first grade. I was getting Fs and Ds.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  Of course you were.

• 55:48Dax Shepard?

  Regulating with food enters the picture.

• 55:51Speaker 02

  That's when I started to balloon. And I was also actually physically destructive. I remember a day where I took something in the back of my mom's car, the little cigarette things that you would push down, and I started burning holes in the back of her car. And my mom could not figure out what the fuck was going on with me. And it was this absolute burden on my shoulders of having to keep this secret and lashing out because I didn't know what else to do. And my mom finally sat down and said, something's got to change. Got me to speak to a therapist. I was able to finally unburden this secret, was able to finally find some sort of path for myself to navigate my own.

• 56:36Speaker 02

  Very difficult emotions and then was able to overcome all of the chaos.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  And did the therapist tell you it was okay for you to tell your mom?

• 56:44Speaker 02

  The therapist did. This was a period where I only wanted to sleep in my mom's room. Was afraid to sleep by myself. There was so much shit going on. So I had one therapist who told my mom to lock me in my room.

• 56:56Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 56:56Speaker 02

  And my mom, God bless her, was like, you're out of your fucking mind.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:00Speaker 02

  Let's switch. And then I found this incredible woman who was able to talk to me as a child and was able to get to why was I feeling so scared? I had this enormous fear of death. I was constantly afraid of dying. Was constantly afraid of loss. And once I had a grasp on that, I was then able to take all of that and start to focus my energies on performance. And so my mom found this local children's theater called the Hollywood Playhouse for the Performing Arts, signed me up, and that changed my life, especially being overweight.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  I've found that the greatest superpower I had was making fun of myself and using that self-deprecation to win people over. And so I also parlayed it into popularity. I became class president.

• 57:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:57Speaker 02

  I became sort of a king in high school.

• 57:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 58:00Speaker 02

  And I didn't fit the sort of physical bill of what that usually looks like.

• 58:04Dax Shepard?

  Makes it even that much better.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  Funny is funny.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  And it attracts people. And I suddenly was like, okay, this is my high. This is what I'm going to lean into. Cut to me going to Carnegie Melandrama for some reason.

• 58:21Dax Shepard?

  Well, but really, Clay, you're crushing. You're in AP classes. You're the class president. You're a three-time champion. You applied to Northwestern. In fact, eight of you from your school apply. And then you're gonna go to Juilliard, or you apply to Juilliard. And then you get rejected from Northwestern. And you're like, I can't wait to go commiserate with these other seven dipshits who certainly didn't get in.

• 58:39Speaker 02

  All got in.

• 58:40Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 58:41Speaker 02

  Class of 99. All got in except for me.

• 58:45Dax Shepard?

  I love these reality checks every now and then, just when you're certain you're the king. I'm confused though, cause in the book you go and you audition for Juilliard and it seems you got in, but then you went to Carnegie Mellon.

• 58:55Speaker 02

  I did not get into Juilliard.

• 58:56Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you didn't?

• 58:56Speaker 02

  I had the worst audition of my life.

• 59:00Dax Shepard?

  But you said I Trojan horsed my way?

• 59:01Speaker 02

  Into Carnegie Mellon.

• 59:02Dax Shepard?

  Sorry, tell me about Juilliard.

• 59:04Speaker 02

  Juilliard, I go in there and I am bullish. I'm like, I got this.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  After you didn't get into Northwestern?

• 59:11Speaker 02

  Northwestern is all about grades and SAT. At the time, I had gotten like a 1350 on my SAT. So I was thinking like, oh, I'm shooing. But like all of my friends had got 1400 or above. So Northwestern was out of the picture and I'm like, well, it doesn't matter. My backup Juilliard is all about like the audition. So I go in there and I do Marty by Patty Chayefsky. That was the piece that I had gotten third place in my sophomore year of high school.

• 59:37Dax Shepard?

  This is also a beautiful story. Someone forces you to do drama, basically.

• 59:41Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 59:41Dax Shepard?

  And you do it and you fall in love with that as well.

• 59:43Speaker 02

  So I do it and I'm thinking to myself, I'm fucking killing this. I described the three people auditioning me as like the ring wraiths of Lord Sauron. It is really truly these hooded kind of like figures who are not willing to express at all.

• 1:00:02Dax Shepard?

  I admire the lack of people pleasing.

• 1:00:03Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:00:04Dax Shepard?

  Can you imagine just watching something and saying nothing?

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  And you have to think about this. These are also the same people at that time who had Kevin Kline and Robin Williams and all of the greats come through. So I don't fucking care about like who I am.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  They also get a high off of being so stoic.

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  So their stoicism absolutely gets to me. And then Michael Kahn, who's running it goes, do you have anything else you want to do for us today? And I said, uh, you have a classical piece and I do something from Henry VIII and. I forgot all of the words and start improv-ing in iambic pentameter to a man who literally is responsible for not only Juilliard, but a Shakespeare Festival in Washington DC.

• 1:00:56Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  And so I look at them after I finish and I go, I will see myself out. Good luck with Juilliard. And I go outside and I start crying.

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:01:07Speaker 02

  And I look at my mom and I go, I don't know what I'm gonna do. And I'll never forget, we were walking through Central Park and as we crossed the threshold into the park, it started snowing. And for some reason, I was like, I think it's gonna be okay. And then I applied to Carnegie Mellon and was feeling the weight of all the rejections. I saw that I could apply as a director. And when you apply as a director, you have to do an audition for some reason to sort of communicate that you understand an actor's journey as a director. So I come and I do this audition and the guy who runs Greg LaHaine goes, huh, are you sure you want to be a director? And I said, why? What are you thinking?

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, good answer.

• 1:01:49Speaker 02

  And he's like, well, I'd like to share this with my acting colleague, Tony McKay. And so Tony comes in and watches and he goes, you wanna direct? And I said, uh, I guess I could be convinced to act.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  I love directing, but I don't know.

• 1:02:04Speaker 02

  Uh huh. So I completely Trojan horse my way to see.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:02:08Speaker 02

  And then tried to Trojan horse my way into musical theater. That's where they drew the line. And my class was crazy. It was Leslie Odom Jr., Josh Groban.

• 1:02:18Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  Rory O'Malley. So that is how I ended up there.

• 1:02:22Dax Shepard?

  Also, what's a conservatory?

• 1:02:24Speaker 02

  So conservatory is basically like Hogwarts for drama kids.

• 1:02:27Dax Shepard?

  You don't have to do shit other than act, right?

• 1:02:29Speaker 02

  You just act. In fact, I was desperate. Here's again, my absolute jealousy of expertise was I wanted more academia. And I didn't get more academia. I got movement class. One, two, three, and four. I got voice class, one, two, three, four. You basically had to take seven to 10 classes that were academic in nature during the duration of your studies.

• 1:02:58Dax Shepard?

  Wow.

• 1:02:58Speaker 02

  And that wasn't enough for me. I'm more jealous of the liberal arts.

• 1:03:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, mind expanding, understanding.

• 1:03:04Speaker 02

  I definitely would never trade in my experience, but I did miss out on a fuller body of learning.

• 1:03:13Dax Shepard?

  But I think the group that went sounds so fun because you describe a night. It was a three-story dormitory and there's a party and you drink a half a fifth of tequila and then you piss your jeans and then you take a 20-minute nap.

• 1:03:25Speaker 02

  Have a threesome.

• 1:03:26Dax Shepard?

  Regroup, go to the first floor, hook up with someone, go to the third floor, hook up with someone and then make love to someone on the second floor.

• 1:03:32Speaker 02

  It was.

• 1:03:32Dax Shepard?

  All in the same night. And you say it's not because of your prowess.

• 1:03:36Speaker 02

  It's not because of my prowess. It's because I was the only straight person in my class.

• 1:03:40Dax Shepard?

  What a blessing.

• 1:03:41Speaker 02

  And so it was just a fuck fest. And, and you know, I lost a hundred pounds in college. I substituted my food addiction for sex and alcohol.

• 1:03:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:53Speaker 02

  And so that just became the chaos of that period for me.

• 1:03:57Dax Shepard?

  I'm imagining from your high school experience to this experience, I don't know how on earth one would resist that.

• 1:04:03Speaker 02

  It was a complete body transformation.

• 1:04:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  I dyed my hair blonde.

• 1:04:07Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 1:04:08Speaker 01

  We're gonna need a pic.

• 1:04:09Speaker 02

  I will show you a pic. I lost myself a little bit.

• 1:04:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Yeah. By the way, I think you should.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  That's what college is about.

• 1:04:15Speaker 02

  No, no, no, in a bad way.

• 1:04:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, but I think you should lose yourself in a bad way.

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  I started to get extreme anxiety. I was being looked at in a different way and I didn't know how to handle that attention. And I also didn't know, this was me, as a blonde.

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  Wow. We gotta show the cam.

• 1:04:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. This guy lives for three ways.

• 1:04:38Speaker 01

  Wow. Okay, so for the listeners, you still have the dark eyebrows.

• 1:04:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:43Speaker 01

  The hair is quite blonde.

• 1:04:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, hair's platinum blonde. So I felt like a stranger in my body. I was not used to being attractive. I was not used to being sought after. I didn't know how to operate in that body. And I also didn't know how to play the roles in that body.

• 1:05:00Dax Shepard?

  Okay, Josh, really quick. This is why I'm saying it's a blessing that happened to you then, because I've brought this up many times on here. It's a trope in Hollywood. A lot of people end up getting enormous amounts of status and that wasn't their experience all growing up and they don't really know how to handle it. And I've seen it most often lead to this bizarre version of misogyny. It's like, these dudes have all these women that like them and they don't really trust it and they kind of hate them for it. Why don't you like me when I'm younger? I mean, I've seen that pattern materialize a bunch of times for people who got that attention and status late in life. Like Yuval. I don't even know why I didn't say it by name. We're all thinking it. Yuval's husband is gorgeous. Yeah, he joins him when he comes. But Yuval's always been. But I think like, had you not had that thing then, you would have had an opportunity to do

• 1:05:43Dax Shepard?

  it later. Why does that result in anxiety? Just because you're very disconnected? Your identity is kind of fractured?

• 1:05:49Speaker 02

  I felt like a visitor in my body. I felt like an alien taking over another person's body. I don't know how to describe it. I had my eyes, I had my ears, I had my voice, but it was not me. I was playing a character.

• 1:06:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. Cool guy character.

• 1:06:03Speaker 02

  And by the way, I think it's why I continue to struggle with weight at this point in my life, because I really didn't know how to be that guy. For health, I want to lose weight and desperately trying to. But that was really, really strange.

• 1:06:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. This is something I also want to bring up, and I don't know how to tiptoe around it, but I'm just gonna be dead honest. I was just thinking of you on my trip to Mexico City. So I'm with somebody who's on a version of a GLP-1, who's loving it. He more often is telling me like, it's so weird to see this stuff and not have that pull I normally have.

• 1:06:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:38Dax Shepard?

  If you listen to our first episode, we do 20 minutes on what the perfect day of eating would be, from your point of view. What you would start the day with. We got General Chow's chickens in there. We had everything bagel. We went through the whole thing. You're gonna finish the night with sushi, but it'll be a lot of tempura. And hearing the amount of joy you get from that, I literally thought in my head, I wonder if there'll be people, when GLP-1s are virtually over the counter, if they'll choose not to do that because. So much of the joy in their life is that they don't want that relationship where it's not appealing.

• 1:07:12Speaker 02

  I'm on a GLP one.

• 1:07:13Dax Shepard?

  Has it limited your joy at all?

• 1:07:15Speaker 02

  It has suppressed in a great way that noise. When I wake up, I feel hunger pains and so much of that is psychological.

• 1:07:26Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  And what this does is it takes away that signal.

• 1:07:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's even working on addicts.

• 1:07:32Speaker 02

  It is a miracle drug.

• 1:07:33Dax Shepard?

  It truly is, yeah.

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  I was on a different drug that caused me diverticulitis.

• 1:07:38Dax Shepard?

  Okay, no good.

• 1:07:38Speaker 02

  And I had lost 40 pounds. I was really bummed out because it was working incredibly for me and I had to switch. I'm figuring out this new one and it is life changing. But it also doesn't negate the fact that it can't be in the place of having a healthy relationship with food. And it can't be in the place of having a healthy relationship with exercise.

• 1:07:58Dax Shepard?

  Well, would it be fair to say it's treating the symptom?

• 1:08:00Speaker 02

  It is treating the symptom. And by the way, this is the first time I've opened up about this.

• 1:08:03Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay. And I didn't mean to put you on that spot.

• 1:08:05Speaker 02

  I'm actually really happy that I'm opening about this because I'm having my own journey with it.

• 1:08:09Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  Sometimes I feel like I'm cheating myself by doing this.

• 1:08:13Dax Shepard?

  You shouldn't.

• 1:08:13Speaker 02

  And I know a lot of people who aren't overweight like I am, who are taking it. And then I feel like, okay, I should be able to do this because I need it for health.

• 1:08:22Dax Shepard?

  Someone shaving off the last three pounds.

• 1:08:24Speaker 02

  Which is, I think, becoming.

• 1:08:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. How do you feel about that?

• 1:08:28Speaker 02

  I'm not one to pass judgment to each their own. I think that the problem becomes when it prevents others who need it medically, like myself, from getting it. That's where I get upset.

• 1:08:43Dax Shepard?

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:08:50Dax Shepard?

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• 1:10:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I like to evaluate it in a world where it's completely ubiquitous and it's available. I think that's where you need to place this theoretical thought process. When you're going to decide if you're judgmental, because I don't give a fuck if anyone does anything like that. That's safe and doesn't have many side effects that makes them feel better. I don't know why I wouldn't want that for somebody.

• 1:10:59Speaker 02

  You judge someone for taking suppressants for nicotine. Would you judge someone for taking antidepressants for anxiety?

• 1:11:06Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:11:07Speaker 02

  This is medication. It's treating a disease.

• 1:11:09Dax Shepard?

  I'm not saying everyone should be on it, but for the people I know who are on it. It's making their life a lot better.

• 1:11:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11:15Dax Shepard?

  Why would I not want that for them?

• 1:11:18Speaker 02

  My wife is not thrilled that I take it.

• 1:11:20Dax Shepard?

  Because she's worried you're not going to confront the core thing that's driving it. But again, that's position is binary. It's either or it's like, either you choose this route or you choose to confront. Obviously you can do both.

• 1:11:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, or divorce her.

• 1:11:32Dax Shepard?

  Right, well, we'll see.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  Seems like you'd need her if she gets out of the fire.

• 1:11:36Speaker 02

  That's the thing. Right now I need her this week.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  Unfortunately.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  And then we'll go from there.

• 1:11:41Dax Shepard?

  This is not your wife, but I can easily see a hypothetical where someone.

• 1:11:47Dax Shepard?

  Fell in love with someone that was larger. And there is perhaps some shadow in their mind that says, well, I wonder if they had all the options, if they would have still picked me. And now they're going to be thin and they're going to have all the options. And there's fear behind that.

• 1:12:03Speaker 02

  I mean, I think that that's fair.

• 1:12:05Dax Shepard?

  Some people hate that when their partner becomes a gym rat and they're in great shape. They're like scared all of a sudden that they won't be enough.

• 1:12:11Speaker 02

  I think that that's very fair. At the end of the day, my wife is so much hotter than you.

• 1:12:15Speaker 01

  You're like, she's not worried.

• 1:12:16Speaker 02

  More concerned about like her.

• 1:12:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there's no version of you that still wouldn't be dying to be with her.

• 1:12:21Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:12:21Speaker 01

  Another generous take on that is that they're worried that their identity will shift completely. Yours did, as you're saying.

• 1:12:28Speaker 02

  I've always been the funny fat guy. Can I be the funny skinny guy?

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:12:32Speaker 02

  Can I be the hot leading man? I know I could be those things. I don't know that people would accept me as those things. And that's always really hard. We get typecast. We do a thing and people see us as that thing. And I've been very blessed that I continue to challenge myself to not be typecast, to do things that nobody expects.

• 1:12:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Listen, Josh, I would honor this fear if I thought you were a one trick pony who fell through tables as their main deal. You're like a crazy good dramatic actor. You're an improv genius. You sing like a motherfucker. Olaf is you. All blessings to all the writing, but that creation is Josh Gad. Like that fear for you should be nowhere in sight.

• 1:13:13Speaker 02

  Thank you. I also think I have a healthier relationship with my brain than I did back then. And so now I think, you know, as I go on this journey of weight loss, I'm not as worried about that because my primary goal is I want to be there for my kids. Everything else is bullshit.

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  You also make your own shit. That's part of your genius. You do your own thing, so no one can take that from you. You'll keep doing your own thing.

• 1:13:37Speaker 02

  I appreciate that. At the very least, I'll do more of this, more of your podcast.

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  You can come on.

• 1:13:42Speaker 02

  But I don't get paid for this, do I?

• 1:13:44Dax Shepard?

  I actually am going to give you $100 for coming in last minute. Yeah, I had already planned on it. I put my billfold in my pocket.

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  Is it in cash?

• 1:13:51Dax Shepard?

  It's in cash.

• 1:13:52Speaker 02

  So I don't need to write it off. But now I do because it's on record.

• 1:13:54Dax Shepard?

  But then you'll say you gave it back to me after and it was just a bit.

• 1:13:57Speaker 02

  Oh, smart.

• 1:13:58Dax Shepard?

  But really you'll be fucking blowing a hole in that hundo on your way home.

• 1:14:05Dax Shepard?

  You're gonna come up with so many trinkets here.

• 1:14:06Speaker 02

  What if that's how the IRS takes me down because of this $100 that was promised to me on this bullshit?

• 1:14:12Dax Shepard?

  No, but I can gift you up to $18,000 tax free.

• 1:14:15Speaker 02

  I'll take it.

• 1:14:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:19Dax Shepard?

  So tell me about the gap between graduating from CMU and then I guess it would be Putnam.

• 1:14:26Speaker 02

  I was singularly focused on one thing. I wanted to be on Saturday Night Live. That's all I wanted. In my fucking fragile little brain, I somehow thought going to Carnegie Melandrama was enough to audition

• 1:14:41Dax Shepard?

  Fast pass.

• 1:14:41Speaker 02

  And be accepted. I'm not sure what I was thinking, but I started immediately out of college, putting together a reel for SNL. I got Ron Howard to open the video. He's live from Josh's VCR.

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:14:57Dax Shepard?

  How'd you get that done?

• 1:14:58Speaker 02

  Bryce Alice Howard is my best friend.

• 1:15:00Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:15:01Speaker 02

  Because she married my actual best friend Seth Gable from when I was four. And so she let me borrow her father, who was very willing to help me out. It was incredible. It did not get a job.

• 1:15:12Dax Shepard?

  Open the doors you thought it might.

• 1:15:14Speaker 02

  So I kept sending in tapes for like three years. Didn't get on. Signed up for the Groundlings. Did that for two years.

• 1:15:20Dax Shepard?

  You did that for two years?

• 1:15:21Speaker 02

  I did the first two classes. They didn't accept me into the third level. And then I start to get little jobs here and there. I'm sort of at the breaking point. And I talked about this on my last time, so I'm not gonna revisit all of this, but I basically am like, I'm quitting acting. I'm not making money. I had met my then girlfriend, now wife, Yda, and I was like, I need to become a lawyer. So I started applying to law schools. My mom, as you know already, basically is like, you're a fucking coward if you do that. I audition for this show called 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee. And I get it, but I got the San Francisco version and I don't know what I'm thinking because I have no work, but I turn it down.

• 1:16:02Speaker 01

  Oh wow.

• 1:16:03Speaker 02

  They are done with me. They are fucking furious. And somehow I find out that they're replacing Dan Flogler, the Tony Award winner for the show. And I get them to give me another chance, but they're like not having it. I go in, I do my audition, goes fine. I then do the music audition, goes fine. I do the dance audition. It's an unmitigated disaster.

• 1:16:27Speaker 02

  Like a fucking beached whale.

• 1:16:31Speaker 02

  Again, and then I somehow get a phone call that I'm supposed to go to the theater that night. I go to this callback. It's me and this other guy, Jordan, who's on Broadway doing Avenue Q. I have nothing on my resume. I have one episode of ER and I have.

• 1:16:48Dax Shepard?

  You were just summarily released from the ground. And you were studying college.

• 1:16:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  First floor, second floor, third floor.

• 1:16:59Speaker 02

  Every. We didn't even have a fucking.

• 1:17:01Dax Shepard?

  Coming out of the pulleys.

• 1:17:04Speaker 02

  So this guy goes first. He's out there for like 10 minutes. I come out, I see 30 people who are all sitting in the circle and square theater. They're all directors, producers, investors. I crack a joke. I start my scene. I get a minute and a half in and the director, James Pine, and I talk about this in the book, says, Josh, can I see you up here for a second?

• 1:17:27Dax Shepard?

  All of your teachers sound like Phil Hoffman.

• 1:17:30Speaker 01

  Oh, Philip Seymour.

• 1:17:33Speaker 02

  We've established this. I do one impression. It's Phil Hoffman. Everything else derives from that. Yeah, Josh, can I, I want to talk to you. Come here. James calls me up, dismisses everybody. And he says, I don't think you take this seriously. And I said, excuse me? He goes, I don't think you take this seriously. And I said, well, what makes you think that? And he goes, this is the opportunity of a lifetime. Everybody wants to do a Broadway show and your first instinct is to come out and crack a joke. And I said, well, forgive me, but there are 30 people sitting in front of me who are about to decide my fate. And I figured I had two options. I could either break the ice or projectile vomit on you and your colleagues. So forgive me for choosing the former. And I'm not even saying

• 1:18:18Speaker 02

  it jokingly. I'm like, super fucking pissed. And then he starts to lecture me about the fact that I don't have the discipline in craft to take this job.

• 1:18:29Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:18:30Speaker 02

  And I look at him and I say, all due respect, you can tell me I'm outright for the role. You can tell me that I am not your favorite actor. You can fucking tell me I'm not funny. For you to sit there and tell me and judge my discipline after I literally spent four years in conservatory, spent every last penny that I had to learn my craft, to study my craft, to stick with my craft through thick and thin. That is not something you get to take away from me.

• 1:18:59Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 1:19:00Speaker 02

  And I said, good luck with your show. I appreciate this. Thank you for the opportunity. I walk out, I congratulate Jordan on getting the role. I go back to my hotel, the Sheridan.

• 1:19:12Speaker 02

  No, actually, it was a Hilton. That was a Hilton.

• 1:19:15Dax Shepard?

  Well, they kind of.

• 1:19:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's either Sheridan or Hilton.

• 1:19:17Dax Shepard?

  Modern day Sheridan.

• 1:19:18Speaker 02

  And I called my mom up. She said, how'd it go? I said, didn't happen.

• 1:19:21Dax Shepard?

  As bad as it could.

• 1:19:22Speaker 02

  As bad as it could. I'm coming home and I get a call from my then agent Hannah Roth and she says, hey. And I said, hey, I'm not really in the mood to talk right now. And she goes, well, you have two tickets to go see Spelling Bee tonight. And I said, why the fuck would I want to go see that show? And at this point, I had never seen the show. I didn't have enough money to get a ticket to see the show. I was just approximating what I thought it should be. And I said, why the fuck would I want to go see that? And she goes, well, the director feels that you should probably see it before you start rehearsals in two weeks.

• 1:19:53Dax Shepard?

  Unreal.

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:19:55Speaker 02

  So it was a mindfuck.

• 1:19:56Dax Shepard?

  What was your all's post-conversation of that initial?

• 1:20:01Speaker 02

  My relationship with James is now wonderful. Recently, we had a dinner where we talked through everything and he was incredible about it. But he was horrible to me during that process.

• 1:20:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, he was.

• 1:20:13Speaker 01

  The whole show?

• 1:20:14Speaker 02

  The whole show. I was a punching bag. It was brutal.

• 1:20:18Dax Shepard?

  So upset he was losing Dan.

• 1:20:20Speaker 02

  I think that was a big part of it. When we sat down and we discussed it and we had it out and he was so gracious and has since apologized to me for what that experience was. He said I needed to get my ass kicked. I agree with that. I don't think the psychological warfare was necessary.

• 1:20:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:36Speaker 02

  But I agree with it. But I would come back and I would smoke every night a full bong of like hashish because I was so fucking scared. I was just fucked. I was always in a state of fear.

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  Panic.

• 1:20:49Speaker 02

  Panic. And it just didn't get better. I couldn't wait to leave. And the cast was awesome, but also they missed Dan.

• 1:21:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a hard position.

• 1:21:02Speaker 02

  It sucks being a replacement sometimes. I'm not sure if that's everyone's experience. I go out of my way to be kind to my replacements because of what that experience was. But it fucking sucked. And I would do it all again if I could because it taught me resilience.

• 1:21:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, if you can get through that.

• 1:21:20Speaker 02

  I think we coddle a lot now and I think actors who are breaking in, you need to get your ass kicked, man, because it's a fucking brutal business. I learned from every minute of that, even though it wasn't all roses and candy, it was everything I needed at the time to prepare me for a career that is filled with so many more lows than highs. And once you have that, you can handle the rest.

• 1:21:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:21:47Speaker 02

  There were times when I didn't think I could get through it. There were times when I would literally have anxiety attacks because James would call a rehearsal that I knew was just about putting me in my place and keeping me in a box. And I didn't feel safe. I didn't feel comfortable improv-ing. I didn't feel comfortable being my funniest.

• 1:22:07Dax Shepard?

  It's like with your confidence.

• 1:22:08Speaker 02

  I had real problems with my confidence. That happened again on Book of Mormon.

• 1:22:11Speaker 01

  It did?

• 1:22:11Dax Shepard?

  How? Because I saw that.

• 1:22:13Speaker 02

  I talk about this in my book as well. So my director there, Casey, who's brilliant and amazing. He came in after Jason Moore, who we had workshopped the show with for three years, left the project.

• 1:22:28Speaker 02

  He was coming into a situation that was like, hey, we're going to Broadway. It's your turn to get it all going in a couple of months. He wanted to put his stamp on it. And based on my experience with Spelling Bee, I think I had my guard up.

• 1:22:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:41Dax Shepard?

  You got a chip on your shoulder maybe a little bit?

• 1:22:42Speaker 02

  Fuck with me.

• 1:22:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:43Speaker 02

  I am not to be fucked with here. And I think he felt that. And I think he, in turn, sometimes did not love that I was basically doing whatever the fuck I wanted on that stage. And he wanted to control that. And right or wrong, it was his job and I respect that. But we definitely butted heads.

• 1:23:06Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:23:06Speaker 02

  And it was sometimes very unpleasant. And Andrew and I sometimes got into it because

• 1:23:11Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:23:12Speaker 02

  A lot of what was going on during that time was Reynolds and I, suddenly we went from zero to 60.

• 1:23:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:19Speaker 02

  And we had this entire show on our backs. We were not prepared for what it became.

• 1:23:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:24Speaker 02

  I was not ready for that kind of pressure and I think Andrew wasn't. And so we felt sometimes like we were being pitted against each other. And you're in the midst of like Tony season and you're both vying for that award.

• 1:23:36Dax Shepard?

  Were you guys nominated for the same thing?

• 1:23:37Speaker 02

  We were both nominated for the same thing.

• 1:23:39Dax Shepard?

  What the hell do you do with that?

• 1:23:40Speaker 02

  And we both lost. It was a fucking roller coaster.

• 1:23:42Dax Shepard?

  How old were you at that time?

• 1:23:44Speaker 02

  I had just turned 30 and Andrew and I now talk about it laughing about how stupid and petty all of the little bullshit was. But it was a pressure cooker. And it was so funny because going back and then doing Gutenberg, we had the complete opposite experience because we're in our 40s and don't give a shit about anything anymore. Because we've had so many life experiences.

• 1:24:04Dax Shepard?

  The bucket's been filled up.

• 1:24:05Speaker 02

  All of that stuff feels so insignificant.

• 1:24:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:09Speaker 02

  And it's beautiful because our relationship has never been stronger. We came through the other side of it. We had the most amazing experience doing that show and being a part of a pop cultural phenomenon, the likes of which musical comedy theater hadn't seen since The Producers. And I think hasn't seen since.

• 1:24:30Dax Shepard?

  It's just Hamilton in that.

• 1:24:31Speaker 02

  But in terms of comedy, right?

• 1:24:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:33Speaker 02

  In terms of comedies, we're a rarity. That was hard. I have Since been able to look back at all of it and own my part in all of it.

• 1:24:43Dax Shepard?

  What's your part?

• 1:24:43Speaker 02

  I was a cocky fucking guy. And part of the cockiness was a defense mechanism.

• 1:24:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you're scared.

• 1:24:50Speaker 02

  I'm scared and I'm not good enough. I'm not funny enough. I'm scared I'm not worthy of the attention. I'm scared that I am going to let people down. I'm scared I'm gonna let myself down.

• 1:25:02Dax Shepard?

  You'll be revealed at some.

• 1:25:04Speaker 02

  I'll be revealed. And so I really peacocked.

• 1:25:10Dax Shepard?

  You know what's weird? I've never till this moment considered, although I experienced it being on stage at the Groundlings, but where theater is so different than doing a movie is you don't really know while filming the movie, who's popping and stealing it. But on a stage, boy, the fucking verdict's in every thirty seconds. And it's very obvious what the response to the crowd is. So if you're someone that's still doing a great job, but you're third in the crushing it, you know it.

• 1:25:39Speaker 02

  Do you know how petty I was and hungry and starving for love and adoration? I'll never forget being so mad. This is so ridiculous. But I was so mad that Andrew got the last bow and I didn't.

• 1:25:53Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:25:54Speaker 02

  And that is such a fucking joke.

• 1:25:57Dax Shepard?

  I love that you're admitting that.

• 1:25:58Speaker 02

  That I would even think that way.

• 1:26:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:01Speaker 02

  Cause he clearly was the one who should get the last bow. But at the time, I was like, I've been doing the show for four years. I've been here from the beginning. I'm the funnier role. I wasn't. I wasn't any of those things. I was involved longer. That's it.

• 1:26:13Dax Shepard?

  Well, if I can make an excuse for you a little bit, or not even an excuse.

• 1:26:19Speaker 02

  And I deserve what's happening to me.

• 1:26:21Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, yes. Isn't it true you're at fault for these high winds that just set LA ablaze? This is the same thing with black folks, with women. In your mind, if you're not the best, they're gonna kick you out.

• 1:26:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, but also you said it earlier. You grew up with a huge fear of loss. That does not go away. I have the exact same thing.

• 1:26:43Speaker 02

  It doesn't go away. And also, I have always felt like a fraud. I have an absolute case of imposter syndrome.

• 1:26:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:52Speaker 02

  And when I go and I put myself out there, I am so scared I'm gonna fail. And I am so scared that what I think is funny, other people won't find funny. And if I fail even one person, I don't think about the thousand people who enjoyed it. I think about the one person who hated it.

• 1:27:10Dax Shepard?

  Also, do you give it the power that like, when I fail publicly, it's actually gonna be so powerful, the failure, that it'll make you go back and reevaluate everything you thought thus far?

• 1:27:20Speaker 02

  I do it all the time.

• 1:27:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, like, it has the power to not only fail in that moment, but erase everything that happened before.

• 1:27:25Speaker 02

  It is to the point now that I can't even watch anything I'm in because I judge it so harshly and so critically that I feel like a fraud. Actually, the beauty and the reason that I went back to Broadway and did a show with Andrew was I needed that again. I needed to put myself out there in the most vulnerable way at the age of 40 and have this guy who is the single funniest fucking human being I've ever worked alongside, other than the two of you.

• 1:27:57Speaker 01

  Thank you. Is it a lie because you haven't worked with us?

• 1:28:02Speaker 02

  Well, no, it's honest. And so I needed that. I needed my ass kicked. And the difference between when we did Book of Mormon and we did Gutenberg was being on the other side of that and no longer focused about any of the little shit.

• 1:28:18Speaker 01

  Dumb stuff.

• 1:28:19Speaker 02

  Any of the dumb shit. I was able to just enjoy and do a trust exercise every night. And it was fucking incredible.

• 1:28:28Dax Shepard?

  That's the thing. The ultimate victim ends up being you because you are robbed of the experience. So that whole experience you had, which is among 10 experiences on Broadway like that, you didn't get to experience.

• 1:28:39Speaker 02

  I didn't.

• 1:28:39Dax Shepard?

  Because you are so in the future and so behind and all these places other than this bizarre gift that doesn't really come around for people ever in this business. And yeah, you can run the risk of missing the whole thing.

• 1:28:51Speaker 02

  It's funny. I think in a certain way, you need to go through that. I'm at an age now where none of that is a factor anymore. Because I've learned these lessons, every job that I do, every day I take in and I give gratitude and I am savoring it. And you read about stories like Mandy Patinkin talking about, he was so miserable to others and to himself for so long. And like my experience of working with Mandy was the complete opposite. I've never met a more giving person. And I think that we all, in a weird way, have to go through that, not just in this industry, in our lives.

• 1:29:25Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:29:26Speaker 02

  You have to experience that.

• 1:29:28Dax Shepard?

  Everyone with coworkers knows this.

• 1:29:30Speaker 02

  It's okay to go through all of that, as long as you come out the other side acknowledging it. Yeah. I'm finally at a place, maybe too late, but I'm finally at a place of acknowledgement to say, I was my own worst enemy in many of these situations. I was not present. I was afraid to be told no, because that meant that I had to concede I was doing something wrong.

• 1:29:52Dax Shepard?

  Proving you didn't belong there.

• 1:29:54Speaker 02

  It was a waste of one of the greatest years of my life. I wanted to get the fuck out of that show by the end, because I was miserable. And I am so bitter about that, because if I could go back and do Book of Mormon right now, I would fucking leave this room and put that outfit on and get on stage, because it was the greatest joy ever. What Trey Madsen did is for the ages. And I didn't appreciate it enough at the time.

• 1:30:17Dax Shepard?

  I have two stupid questions unrelated to your book.

• 1:30:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:20Dax Shepard?

  In my research, I discovered something that is an Alexander Payne movie waiting to happen. So your mother and stepfather were involved in a legal battle over a burial plot that was double booked. When I read that sentence, I was like, it's insane. If I was pitched that as a studio executive, I'd go, no. What, in this day and age, people could be fighting over a burial plot?

• 1:30:46Speaker 02

  My grandparents were buried in this South Florida cemetery, and my parents bought a plot next to them. My mother is the daughter of Holocaust survivors. There are books about this generation. Yeah. It is really difficult. The guilt is unthinkable.

• 1:31:05Speaker 02

  For me, I'd be like, just put me wherever. For her, it was such a loss. It was such a betrayal. And the way she found out, which was accidentally from a friend who was told they gave that plot accidentally away, was so fucked. So it was a thing.

• 1:31:21Dax Shepard?

  What is the solution to a problem like that? Do you exhume grandma and?

• 1:31:25Speaker 02

  Well, going through it now, we are literally in the process of figuring out what to do because there is no good solution.

• 1:31:35Dax Shepard?

  No, bury mom on top.

• 1:31:37Speaker 02

  But you sort of anticipate that the fucking place will do its job. It has one job, which is put the boxes where they're meant to go.

• 1:31:46Speaker 02

  I don't know how they fucking mix and match that, but.

• 1:31:49Dax Shepard?

  This is like the backside of babies.

• 1:31:51Speaker 01

  I was about to say, swapped at the hospital.

• 1:31:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:31:55Dax Shepard?

  You can imagine you going and paying your respects at the wrong grave for years.

• 1:31:59Speaker 02

  Write this. It's actually a great fucking.

• 1:32:03Speaker 02

  There's no good solution. There's solutions. All of them suck.

• 1:32:05Dax Shepard?

  But that's a good device for a film. There's really no solution that's gonna make anyone in this.

• 1:32:09Speaker 02

  Now I'm worried about what the second question is.

• 1:32:11Dax Shepard?

  I would urge you to tell people about Picture Face Lizzie, because it's another book you have out. You're so prolific.

• 1:32:17Speaker 02

  This has been a year of writing for me. I really wanted to challenge myself as a writer. So I wrote Picture Face Lizzie, a kid's book, which is basically about my girls are obsessed with what their friends have and what they don't have. And that a lot of times comes in the form of social media apps. So they are constantly asking us why their friends are allowed to have TikTok, YouTube, Snapchat, and we put such restrictions on them. This is a conversation so many of my friends are having, so many of my friends' kids are having. It inspired me to write a book from the perspective of both the parents and the kids, talking about this new doll called a Picture

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  Face Lizzie, that is a mixture of an American Girl doll with the technological advances of having a social media application to it, so that it's all encompassing. And this little kid, Eves, finds herself in a situation where all her friends do. Is talk about their picture face Lizzie's and she gets left behind. And so she goes to her parents and she says, I want one. How can I get one? And they finally cave and they give it to her and basically they say, just don't lose who you are in the process of playing with this. Have a healthy relationship with it. She becomes absolutely consumed. But over the course of the book, she starts to miss the little things she used to do, the imaginative play, the sort of experiential things.

• 1:33:42Speaker 02

  As she starts to sort of balance having this thing and doing these analog things, her friends become really attracted to what she's doing.

• 1:33:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:52Speaker 02

  And put their dolls down and start doing that as well. And it's been really amazing to watch families read this book together, experience this journey together and start a conversation from it.

• 1:34:05Dax Shepard?

  Why did you get such a hack to narrate it?

• 1:34:07Speaker 02

  Kristen Bell was the only option I had at the time because similarly, I was canceled on by most of my previous friends. And that was without an apocalyptic event. I am doing what I can to give them a healthy relationship with technology, but also giving them the skills to be able to be without that technology. Because my concern is, I know I'm addicted to it.

• 1:34:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, parents are giving their kids advice that they themselves are incapable of following, which is hysterical.

• 1:34:41Speaker 02

  That's it. We at least come from a background in which we didn't have any of this.

• 1:34:46Dax Shepard?

  We can remember the halcyon days.

• 1:34:48Speaker 02

  And I think part of the reason my kids love Stranger Things, your listeners are like, what kind of dick shows their little kid Stranger Things, but doesn't give them Snapchat?

• 1:34:57Dax Shepard?

  You knew the shit I've shown my children?

• 1:34:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:59Dax Shepard?

  In fact, when the fires were, this again, I was making jokes. So the fires were getting closer and closer. They're a half mile from here and they were starting to evacuate. And I said to the 10 year old Delta, if it looks like we're going down tonight, I'm gonna let you drink wine and we're watching Pulp Fiction.

• 1:35:22Speaker 02

  I was fucking six when I watched Nightmare on Elm Street.

• 1:35:25Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my grandpa took me on opening day to Scarface in 1981 and I was six. And I watched a chainsaw cut up.

• 1:35:30Speaker 02

  The worst thing that's ever happened to me is I was in college and I took my mother to go see Unfaithful, the Diane Lane like sex film.

• 1:35:41Speaker 01

  Sex tape.

• 1:35:42Speaker 02

  This is like fucking snuff film and I sat next to my mother as like she's getting rammed by this really hot young man and I was like, God damn, I should have just read the reviews.

• 1:35:55Dax Shepard?

  I gotta tell you one more, my memory of the Thomas Crown affair. I'm like, that is the funnest movie. I can't wait to show my, at that time, Lincoln was probably nine. I'm like, I remember the sailboat scene and the cool this and the caper with the bowler hats and the Magritte paintings. Cut to Brosman's making love on the staircase and he's sitting there and it's going on for a long time.

• 1:36:13Speaker 02

  Do you fast forward?

• 1:36:14Dax Shepard?

  No, we would go for it. Sex isn't bad.

• 1:36:16Speaker 02

  Same. We showed Ava Rain Man and I forgot that there's a scene in Rain Man.

• 1:36:20Dax Shepard?

  A hot one with Tom Cruise.

• 1:36:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's just fucking away. Same with Jerry Maguire. There's a period of Tom Cruise movies.

• 1:36:27Dax Shepard?

  Well, he's gonna sprint in every movie?

• 1:36:28Speaker 02

  He was sprinting or fucking.

• 1:36:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, cuz he's a great kisser on screen.

• 1:36:31Speaker 02

  He's a great kisser.

• 1:36:32Dax Shepard?

  Gotta give him that. He knows that's where some of the money is. Yeah, he's an incredible runner and a great kisser. So anyways, we're watching this scene that's now, you know, as I remember, maybe 30 seconds, which now feels like it's 11 minutes long. And Lincoln just goes, do people do that? Have sex? And she goes, no, on the stairs.

• 1:36:53Dax Shepard?

  Cuz the absurdity is very clear to a nine year old.

• 1:36:56Speaker 02

  But by the way, that is a very good question.

• 1:36:59Speaker 01

  Is that real?

• 1:37:00Dax Shepard?

  And I go, actually, no, only in movies do people have sex on the stairs.

• 1:37:08Speaker 02

  That is so your child. That is so your fucking child.

• 1:37:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, well, Joshie, thanks so much. Thanks, thanks, thanks.

• 1:37:16Speaker 02

  This was a good distraction.

• 1:37:18Dax Shepard?

  And your book is phenomenal.

• 1:37:19Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:37:19Dax Shepard?

  It's really, really, really good. It's very honest and it's very well written and it's quite funny. You're never more than three sentences away from a Josh Gad zinger.

• 1:37:27Speaker 02

  Why didn't you write a blurb on the back?

• 1:37:28Dax Shepard?

  I was, um.

• 1:37:29Speaker 02

  It's not too late. I could just send out a flyer.

• 1:37:32Dax Shepard?

  Why don't I just write something in pen? And I wanted these book promotional things. You find a single arm cherry. You can go like, do you want this one that backs shit on in pencil?

• 1:37:42Speaker 01

  Did you consider calling it the Book of Gad?

• 1:37:45Speaker 02

  I did at one point, actually.

• 1:37:46Speaker 01

  Okay, that got taken off.

• 1:37:48Speaker 02

  There were so many puns.

• 1:37:50Speaker 01

  So many.

• 1:37:51Dax Shepard?

  How does one pick? And is that you?

• 1:37:53Speaker 02

  That is truly me.

• 1:37:54Dax Shepard?

  What is that from? What photo is that?

• 1:37:55Speaker 02

  I did it exclusively for the book. They take photos now. You think that they like pull it off of the internet?

• 1:38:01Speaker 01

  They take it from your gram.

• 1:38:03Speaker 02

  Where do you assume pictures on books come from?

• 1:38:05Dax Shepard?

  I don't know. I just, you know who it kinda looks like?

• 1:38:07Speaker 02

  Tell me.

• 1:38:08Dax Shepard?

  And I'm embarrassed and I'm forgetting his name. But did you watch the second iteration of What How to American Summer?

• 1:38:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:38:13Dax Shepard?

  Do you remember the guy where he always wore three collars? What's that actor's name? I know he went to school at Jada Pinkett. Jordan?

• 1:38:18Speaker 01

  Joseph Gordon.

• 1:38:19Dax Shepard?

  Josh Gordon?

• 1:38:20Speaker 02

  Joseph Gordon Levitt?

• 1:38:21Dax Shepard?

  No, Josh Gordon, I think. That doesn't matter. Everybody reading Gad, we trust.

• 1:38:25Speaker 02

  And please go to Dax's curated list of places where you can support.

• 1:38:30Dax Shepard?

  Yes, please do that as well. And if you're struggling, I hope this two hours was a reprieve.

• 1:38:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, amen.

• 1:38:35Dax Shepard?

  All right.

• 1:38:35Speaker 02

  This was, by the way, reprieve for me.

• 1:38:37Dax Shepard?

  Me too. All right, be well.

• 1:38:40Dax Shepard?

  Josh Charles.

• 1:38:40Speaker 02

  That's a little late for that. Thanks, Rob.

• 1:38:47Dax Shepard?

  I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong.

• 1:38:55Dax Shepard?

  Burberry?

• 1:38:57Speaker 01

  That's correct.

• 1:38:57Dax Shepard?

  That's correct. Only wear Burberry to swim. That's a Jay-Z line. That's when you know you've made it, when you only wear Burberry to swim.

• 1:39:05Speaker 01

  I don't, I wear it for fact checks.

• 1:39:07Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. Looks stunning.

• 1:39:08Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:39:08Dax Shepard?

  Are you noticing anything?

• 1:39:10Speaker 01

  About you?

• 1:39:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're growing your beard out.

• 1:39:13Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great, sure. Or maybe back out. I just blue dried my hair. Blow dried?

• 1:39:20Speaker 01

  Wow, okay.

• 1:39:21Dax Shepard?

  What do you think?

• 1:39:22Speaker 01

  It looks nice.

• 1:39:22Dax Shepard?

  Lot of volume?

• 1:39:23Speaker 01

  It looks fluffy.

• 1:39:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I got out of the shower and I was like, what if we put a little mousse in our hair and then hair dry it?

• 1:39:29Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:39:30Dax Shepard?

  And here we are.

• 1:39:31Speaker 01

  Cause 50.

• 1:39:33Dax Shepard?

  No, I think New Year.

• 1:39:36Speaker 01

  Okay, that's great.

• 1:39:37Dax Shepard?

  Stagnation.

• 1:39:38Speaker 01

  Sure, you want to mix it up.

• 1:39:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:40Speaker 01

  Do you think a little bit of this potentially has to do with? We had a guest in who has like really fluffy hair.

• 1:39:49Dax Shepard?

  No, but it is slightly impacted by the guest we're gonna have after this fact check.

• 1:39:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:39:55Dax Shepard?

  Which he is such an eclectic.

• 1:39:58Speaker 01

  Very.

• 1:39:58Dax Shepard?

  This won't sound like a compliment, but it is.

• 1:40:00Speaker 01

  Okay. One of your classic compliments.

• 1:40:02Dax Shepard?

  One of my classic compliments that has you feeling terrible afterwards. Whatever the most exotic lizard is. Right? That's rough, but.

• 1:40:11Speaker 01

  That's bad.

• 1:40:12Dax Shepard?

  With the colorful, when they.

• 1:40:15Speaker 01

  He's just cool.

• 1:40:16Dax Shepard?

  He's so.

• 1:40:17Speaker 01

  Go with some original words like cool.

• 1:40:19Dax Shepard?

  And he knows this, he's also dangerous. He's like snake in the Garden of Eden. He already in that so much Easter egg's happening right now, but what we're gonna talk about that. He's dangerous.

• 1:40:30Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm excited for that. I like a little danger.

• 1:40:33Dax Shepard?

  And he's but he's dangerous and colorful. So if you can think of another, I don't want to use unicorn because unicorns are for babies.

• 1:40:39Speaker 01

  And you don't like unicorns.

• 1:40:41Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:40:41Speaker 01

  Except you do.

• 1:40:42Dax Shepard?

  I love them. I love to call everyone a unicorn.

• 1:40:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:45Dax Shepard?

  But that's another thing I gotta stop. I gotta start blow drying my hair and I gotta stop using.

• 1:40:48Speaker 01

  Your contradictions?

• 1:40:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:50Speaker 01

  Dangerous but colorful is like a flamingo because I think they.

• 1:40:55Dax Shepard?

  You think they're dangerous?

• 1:40:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do think they're actually hidden danger.

• 1:40:59Dax Shepard?

  You just snap any part of them in half. They're they're.

• 1:41:02Speaker 01

  They're very tall.

• 1:41:03Dax Shepard?

  Exactly. They're so tall and not robust.

• 1:41:07Speaker 01

  That's your privilege because you're tall, so you could snap, but I'm too short. I wouldn't be able to reach.

• 1:41:12Dax Shepard?

  Totally disagree. I would put you in the running back category. Ding ding ding.

• 1:41:16Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:41:16Dax Shepard?

  Troy Lyons will get there.

• 1:41:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:18Dax Shepard?

  Um, no, you were low and powerful. So you would smash into those flamingos little dainty toothpick slash chopstick legs.

• 1:41:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:41:27Dax Shepard?

  And it'd be, no one wants to know this, but it would be.

• 1:41:30Speaker 01

  No, this is like two fact checks, fact checks in a row. We've been like.

• 1:41:33Dax Shepard?

  Animal cruelty. True, but um, no, I need something more, a little more dangerous, but also radiant and beautiful and colorful. So I'm thinking with some of those lizard, they get pissed and they start walking on their back legs. And they got their arms out and then they

• 1:41:47Speaker 01

  Funny.

• 1:41:47Dax Shepard?

  Their mantles out, they flare out their big parachute around their neck and it's full of colors.

• 1:41:52Speaker 01

  What about peacocks? Are they mean?

• 1:41:54Dax Shepard?

  No, these are broken.

• 1:41:56Speaker 01

  Are you sure you know?

• 1:41:57Dax Shepard?

  If you're gonna use a bird, we use a predator bird.

• 1:42:00Speaker 01

  Those aren't colorful on purpose because they're trying to blend in.

• 1:42:04Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:42:04Speaker 01

  I feel that I'm drawn to birds, not in life, but in pictures.

• 1:42:10Dax Shepard?

  Okay, sure.

• 1:42:11Speaker 01

  I have a big photograph in my apartment of a woman. She's, she has a cage on her head, but she's, the bird is free.

• 1:42:22Dax Shepard?

  What is that metaphor?

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  Oh, it's deep.

• 1:42:24Dax Shepard?

  It is locked in the cage of your own mind?

• 1:42:27Speaker 01

  It's like golden cage a little bit, but the, the bird is

• 1:42:30Dax Shepard?

  Golden handcuffs.

• 1:42:32Speaker 01

  Also, I almost bought this other piece of art, not Anne Monsoeur, new lady.

• 1:42:36Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:42:37Speaker 01

  And it was also a woman with a bird and I like immediately DM'd and was trying to get it.

• 1:42:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:44Speaker 01

  And then I thought, how many things with birds can I have?

• 1:42:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, cuz now it's probably about to pass the many, many self-images you have that my children have generated and that Kristen's generated, right? Cuz you have a lot of, as we know, photos of yourself, art of yourself.

• 1:43:02Speaker 01

  Well, I'm not in these.

• 1:43:04Dax Shepard?

  We talked about that though. Is it like, would it freak someone out who came over?

• 1:43:09Speaker 01

  Okay, there's a picture that Lincoln painted of me when she was like five or six. She was really young.

• 1:43:16Dax Shepard?

  And Kristen made a

• 1:43:18Speaker 01

  Painted a picture of me for Secret Turkey.

• 1:43:20Dax Shepard?

  And she made a figurine of you.

• 1:43:22Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:43:23Dax Shepard?

  And

• 1:43:24Speaker 01

  Big boobs.

• 1:43:24Dax Shepard?

  With big, and then Lincoln also made a big boob figurine, as I recall.

• 1:43:28Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. I only have one. I think I have the one Lincoln made.

• 1:43:33Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:43:33Speaker 01

  And it's in a drawer.

• 1:43:35Dax Shepard?

  So no one would see that.

• 1:43:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I want people to see it, but it invites a lot of questions. Um, the

• 1:43:42Dax Shepard?

  Which could be.

• 1:43:45Dax Shepard?

  Helpful.

• 1:43:46Speaker 01

  I.

• 1:43:46Dax Shepard?

  In the right context.

• 1:43:48Speaker 01

  Circumstance.

• 1:43:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:49Speaker 01

  Perhaps. Um, maybe if I get on the apps, which I probably won't, but if I do, maybe that could be my little picture.

• 1:43:56Dax Shepard?

  Well, that'd be great.

• 1:43:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I have a little mystery too, but it's also being very obvious.

• 1:44:01Dax Shepard?

  You're also leaning.

• 1:44:02Speaker 01

  Over leaning.

• 1:44:03Dax Shepard?

  Leading the witness a little bit.

• 1:44:04Speaker 01

  But those other ones aren't hung up. I am going to display definitely Lincolns.

• 1:44:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:09Speaker 01

  Um, that's less about me. Yeah. It's a.

• 1:44:12Dax Shepard?

  They're all not about you.

• 1:44:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:44:14Dax Shepard?

  In your defense.

• 1:44:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. I didn't ask for them.

• 1:44:17Dax Shepard?

  But we did ask the question, what would be critical mass? Or even if they're not about you, someone might go, my Lord, this person has like 30 or 40 pieces of art depicting her.

• 1:44:28Speaker 01

  I'm not doing that.

• 1:44:29Dax Shepard?

  Even these famous artists, they tend to only do one or two self portraits, as I recall. Right?

• 1:44:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Also the mouth. I mean, that's why I also have this space. I've put some of my art of me here.

• 1:44:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's right. So there's all that art too. And then there's the arm cherry art.

• 1:44:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:46Dax Shepard?

  Which we have a lot of.

• 1:44:47Speaker 01

  We do, but that lives in our workspace. That feels fine.

• 1:44:50Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:44:51Speaker 01

  That feels fine.

• 1:44:52Dax Shepard?

  Real quick question. If you were a great artist, do you think you would do self portraits? And how many would you do? Like, I guess I'm, I'm delighted Van Gogh did a self portrait because there were no cameras around.

• 1:45:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:45:05Dax Shepard?

  So my only idea of what he looks like is, is what he drew of himself.

• 1:45:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's probably so inaccurate. Like if I did a self portrait.

• 1:45:14Dax Shepard?

  Well, that would be great. If you were a really, really talented artist and you could actually show us exactly what you see.

• 1:45:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:21Dax Shepard?

  That would be incredible.

• 1:45:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:23Dax Shepard?

  Cause I guarantee you it would be super off. Crickets are out.

• 1:45:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yay. I mean, you're a good artist, so you could do a self portrait.

• 1:45:32Dax Shepard?

  Aren't they all those, all those monsters I draw? I think those are all secretly self portraits.

• 1:45:37Speaker 01

  It's also a little like, that's how you're going to spend your time drawing yourself?

• 1:45:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but you're always there, right? If you need a model for something, it's like, all you need is a mirror in your.

• 1:45:45Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 1:45:46Dax Shepard?

  In your sketchy.

• 1:45:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm probably not gonna do that.

• 1:45:50Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Should we dive into the heartbreak?

• 1:45:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's hear about it.

• 1:45:54Dax Shepard?

  So went to the game.

• 1:45:56Speaker 01

  The Lions game.

• 1:45:56Dax Shepard?

  The Lions playoff game against the commanders.

• 1:45:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:00Dax Shepard?

  And if I'm listing a top 10 experiences with my best friend, Aaron Weekly, this is making the list. We were so beside ourself that we were down on the field.

• 1:46:14Dax Shepard?

  At the Lions, I had this singular goal of standing next to Dan Campbell, the coach.

• 1:46:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:46:19Dax Shepard?

  In hopes I could get a sense of just how big he is because I see him on TV. I also looked him up and it says six, five.

• 1:46:25Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:46:26Dax Shepard?

  But these football players are infamously, they're all a little bit embellished.

• 1:46:31Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:46:31Dax Shepard?

  Because they were coming out of college and they're entering the draft and they want to seem as big and as enormous. So it's always like, if you see six, five, probably six, three and a half.

• 1:46:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:46:41Dax Shepard?

  I'm, I'm just going to guess there's a standard one and a half inch.

• 1:46:46Speaker 01

  Flub.

• 1:46:46Dax Shepard?

  Flub, fluff.

• 1:46:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:48Dax Shepard?

  So I was just hoping to stand next to him. So Keegan Michael Keyes there.

• 1:46:52Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:46:53Dax Shepard?

  Which is.

• 1:46:53Speaker 01

  Friend of the pod.

• 1:46:54Dax Shepard?

  Friend of the pod and the ultimate Detroit-er. And, and I don't even pretend to be as authentic and committed to the Lions as he is. It's his life.

• 1:47:04Speaker 01

  Okay, great.

• 1:47:05Dax Shepard?

  So I'm a bit of a poser, but I'm, I'm as excited as anyone. So that counts.

• 1:47:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:11Dax Shepard?

  So he starts, he knows everybody as you might expect. So he introduces me to Martha Ford. Do you know who Martha Ford is?

• 1:47:19Speaker 01

  Martha?

• 1:47:20Dax Shepard?

  Martha Ford, Martha Ford.

• 1:47:22Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 1:47:23Dax Shepard?

  Rob, will you look up her age while I'm chatting? She's 99. 90 fucking nine. Monica, I have to tell you of all the things, I mean, she's tied with, with Dan Campbell. So she, if I am to believe Aaron.

• 1:47:36Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:47:36Dax Shepard?

  Was the daughter of the Firestone Tire Dynasty.

• 1:47:39Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 1:47:40Dax Shepard?

  Married Henry Ford's son.

• 1:47:42Speaker 01

  Wow. Is she hot?

• 1:47:45Dax Shepard?

  I'll get there.

• 1:47:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:47:47Dax Shepard?

  They own the Lions, which.

• 1:47:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:49Dax Shepard?

  I wasn't even positive. I knew Ford, the Ford family owns Lions.

• 1:47:52Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:47:53Dax Shepard?

  They own the Ford Field, the arena. Martha rolls in on a golf cart and she gets out. Next thing you know, I'm meeting her. She's so tiny.

• 1:48:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I bet.

• 1:48:03Dax Shepard?

  I loved her immediately because she was so tiny. She has a walker.

• 1:48:07Speaker 01

  What color hair does she have?

• 1:48:08Dax Shepard?

  White.

• 1:48:09Speaker 01

  Okay, just checking.

• 1:48:10Dax Shepard?

  I know. I think once you're 99, your standard hair is white.

• 1:48:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you might dye it.

• 1:48:15Dax Shepard?

  Not Martha.

• 1:48:16Speaker 01

  Oh, good for her.

• 1:48:17Dax Shepard?

  She is such a spitfire. So. They get us to line up the like team photographers gonna take a picture of us. And Martha has a walker. She's 99 and we're about to take the picture and she goes, get this out of here. She chucked her walker. She don't want that walker fucking anywhere near this photo. And I was like, I love her.

• 1:48:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:38Dax Shepard?

  I'll be standing for this and I don't want any evidence of this walker.

• 1:48:42Speaker 01

  Oh, I love that.

• 1:48:44Dax Shepard?

  Fun. When I was shaking, I shook her hand for a very long time because I loved holding it. It was like shaking hands with Delta.

• 1:48:50Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:48:51Dax Shepard?

  It was a tiny little hand and she was so sweet.

• 1:48:54Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:48:55Dax Shepard?

  And I felt like I was in history.

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:58Dax Shepard?

  Marrying Henry Ford's son.

• 1:48:59Speaker 01

  That is.

• 1:49:00Dax Shepard?

  That feels like from another eon.

• 1:49:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, it does.

• 1:49:04Dax Shepard?

  Then I start talking to Dan Campbell's wife by chance.

• 1:49:08Speaker 01

  What color hair?

• 1:49:09Dax Shepard?

  Brownish.

• 1:49:10Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:49:11Dax Shepard?

  From Dallas, super fun. And before I know it, she's turning her attention away from me because Dan Campbell has walked out of the locker room. He walks directly up to her and gives her the longest kiss.

• 1:49:25Speaker 01

  That's nice.

• 1:49:26Dax Shepard?

  It was so nice. I was like, oh my God, I just love this whole thing. Then she introduces me to him. I'm shaking his hand. I'm very excited to be shaking his hand and saying things. I'm not even sure what I was saying, you know, oh, sure.

• 1:49:43Dax Shepard?

  And.

• 1:49:44Speaker 01

  Hope he would kiss you.

• 1:49:45Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'll get to that.

• 1:49:47Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:49:48Dax Shepard?

  So it's some chit chat, chit chat. And then he gets distracted and then he's talking to Keegan. And then he's gonna carry on and, and he gives Keegan a huge hug. And I'm like, I'm gonna, well, even worse. I'm like, I'm gonna hug him goodbye.

• 1:50:03Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:50:06Dax Shepard?

  I'm really afraid to say this because I'm afraid some Lions fans are gonna blame me that this hug jinxed.

• 1:50:11Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 1:50:12Dax Shepard?

  By the way, I did, I did think it in my head for a couple hours. I started feeling really guilty. Like I shouldn't have.

• 1:50:17Speaker 01

  Did you?

• 1:50:18Dax Shepard?

  But I was like, all right, yeah, great meeting you. And I just gotta make it very obvious. I want to hug and he, and he hugs me.

• 1:50:23Speaker 01

  He obliges.

• 1:50:24Dax Shepard?

  And Monica, it was like hugging a water buffalo.

• 1:50:29Speaker 01

  What do you mean? I need more.

• 1:50:30Dax Shepard?

  He is so big.

• 1:50:33Speaker 01

  Like squishy?

• 1:50:34Dax Shepard?

  No, no, his lats are like this wide. His neck is like, you know, this wide.

• 1:50:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:50:40Dax Shepard?

  For the listener, I'm holding my hands very far apart.

• 1:50:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:43Dax Shepard?

  He is, I don't think he's six, five. It's a little bit like Toto. He's taller than me.

• 1:50:49Speaker 01

  Toto is six, nine.

• 1:50:51Dax Shepard?

  In, yes.

• 1:50:52Speaker 01

  In my heart.

• 1:50:54Dax Shepard?

  Same. But um, he's definitely taller than me. Let's just say that. And he is just like hugging a redwood.

• 1:51:00Speaker 01

  Were you, were you like this? Like you couldn't get your?

• 1:51:03Dax Shepard?

  That's what I thought I was, but then I saw a video of it.

• 1:51:05Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 1:51:06Dax Shepard?

  All right. I just loved it. I hugged him. I felt his lats. They were so big.

• 1:51:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:11Dax Shepard?

  I wanted him to throw me on the ground kinda.

• 1:51:13Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:51:14Dax Shepard?

  Which is interesting. I just kinda wanted to feel his power a little bit.

• 1:51:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I get it.

• 1:51:17Dax Shepard?

  But he's so nice. He's such a nice man.

• 1:51:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:20Dax Shepard?

  He got emotional on the post game thing. I don't know if you saw that. It was very sweet.

• 1:51:23Speaker 01

  I didn't watch.

• 1:51:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I think he's a vulnerable boy.

• 1:51:26Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:51:27Dax Shepard?

  I'm beaming like I'm eight years old. Aaron is so excited.

• 1:51:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:31Dax Shepard?

  He took a couple pictures. He goes, I took a couple pictures. I'm like, oh my God. I'm so glad you took some pictures.

• 1:51:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:37Dax Shepard?

  I go, they look like a little baby next to him. And Aaron goes, you guys look like twins.

• 1:51:43Speaker 01

  Twins? So he's not, wait, I'm confused now.

• 1:51:49Dax Shepard?

  You should be. I'm not nearly as big as him, but my son is such a sweet boy.

• 1:51:55Speaker 01

  Oh, he was making.

• 1:51:57Dax Shepard?

  He was, yeah, he was basically saying you guys were twi- almost identical twins.

• 1:52:01Speaker 01

  Let me look up this person. Hold on.

• 1:52:03Dax Shepard?

  Did you just wanna see a picture of me hugging him?

• 1:52:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:05Dax Shepard?

  So you can get a sense of.

• 1:52:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:52:08Dax Shepard?

  What I'm talking about.

• 1:52:08Speaker 01

  Okay, wow, okay. For the listener who doesn't know.

• 1:52:12Dax Shepard?

  Dan Campbell. It's everything I'm saying, right?

• 1:52:14Speaker 01

  No, I'm about to say the actual opposite. The way you describe him is not accurate. Okay? I'm imagining, uh, who, God, how do I, okay, I can't do this well, so.

• 1:52:28Dax Shepard?

  You were picturing like a monster from Game of Thrones? Like the Hound or something?

• 1:52:33Speaker 01

  But not muscular, really.

• 1:52:35Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no. He was a.

• 1:52:38Speaker 01

  This guy's extremely muscular.

• 1:52:41Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that, he's the most muscular.

• 1:52:43Speaker 01

  When you say water buffalo, you have to understand what people imagine.

• 1:52:47Dax Shepard?

  Water buffalos are pure muscle. That's why it's a great comp.

• 1:52:50Speaker 01

  It's not. Anyway, he's hot for the listener. This man is very attractive and he's not. What Dax explained and he's, he does look really tall and

• 1:53:01Dax Shepard?

  Insanely fit, right?

• 1:53:03Speaker 01

  Muscular and fit.

• 1:53:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:04Speaker 01

  And a night, very handsome face.

• 1:53:06Dax Shepard?

  He looks like he could just run right through a cinder block wall. I don't want to know because I think he's younger than me, which would be a bummer, but I think probably true. Not much. Not much?

• 1:53:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, not much.

• 1:53:16Dax Shepard?

  Okay, that helps. How old is he?

• 1:53:18Speaker 01

  Forty eight.

• 1:53:19Dax Shepard?

  Forty eight. Oh, okay.

• 1:53:20Speaker 01

  April birthday.

• 1:53:22Dax Shepard?

  Oh, here we go. Here we go. Rob's kinda got it.

• 1:53:27Speaker 01

  Look, I'm not, and I'm not here to make you feel.

• 1:53:30Dax Shepard?

  Okay, first of all, there we are together.

• 1:53:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. Look, I see what Aaron's saying.

• 1:53:36Dax Shepard?

  And Aaron, I have the advantage that Aaron's behind me, so I'm closer to Aaron than, than, look at this.

• 1:53:41Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:53:41Dax Shepard?

  Oh, look at his back, Monica. Look at the fucking width of his back and how tiny my hand looks on it.

• 1:53:48Speaker 01

  Well.

• 1:53:48Dax Shepard?

  Actually, that's not my hand. That's, that's Keegan.

• 1:53:56Dax Shepard?

  That's a lot of beef right there.

• 1:53:58Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:54:03Speaker 01

  This is so stupid.

• 1:54:06Dax Shepard?

  Anyone who watches football has a crush on Dan Campbell.

• 1:54:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I get it.

• 1:54:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:10Speaker 01

  I get it.

• 1:54:10Dax Shepard?

  He's like the rock of NFL.

• 1:54:13Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:54:13Dax Shepard?

  Okay, Ben Johnson. Oh, that's a heartbreaker. I don't want to talk about that.

• 1:54:17Speaker 01

  Why?

• 1:54:18Dax Shepard?

  We lost our offensive coordinator, right? Offensive coordinator?

• 1:54:21Speaker 01

  I thought he died or something.

• 1:54:22Dax Shepard?

  No, the Lions, the coordinators now coaching the Bears. Took him.

• 1:54:25Speaker 01

  Oh, this guy is attractive. Yeah.

• 1:54:28Dax Shepard?

  Um, Dan Campbell?

• 1:54:29Speaker 01

  No, we already established he was. Now this new guy is also very attractive and he is thirty eight.

• 1:54:36Dax Shepard?

  Okay, that is just a few months older than you.

• 1:54:39Speaker 01

  Correct. Um, all right.

• 1:54:41Dax Shepard?

  What if you were dating him and I was dating Dan Campbell? We could go to the drive in.

• 1:54:47Speaker 01

  Rivals.

• 1:54:50Dax Shepard?

  Now, because of Rob, because he's with the Bears.

• 1:54:53Speaker 01

  Well, if I'm dating him.

• 1:54:55Dax Shepard?

  But if he was still at the Lions, we'd both be rooting for the Lions.

• 1:54:58Speaker 01

  Was at the Lions?

• 1:54:59Dax Shepard?

  Yes, he was the offensive coordinator.

• 1:55:01Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:55:02Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so it'd work out perfectly. We could go to the games together and sit in the box and cheer for our boyfriends.

• 1:55:07Speaker 01

  That'd be fun. That would be really fun.

• 1:55:08Dax Shepard?

  Just like Taylor, your, your best friend.

• 1:55:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, how fun. Okay, wait, real quick, you're not letting me get a compliment out. I agree with Aaron in that picture. You guys do look similar.

• 1:55:21Dax Shepard?

  God bless you. God bless you. If you hugged him, you would know we're not terribly similar, but I am, I'm delighted that that's your verdict. Thank you.

• 1:55:31Speaker 01

  Now you know what it's like to be me. Like when I hug big men.

• 1:55:37Dax Shepard?

  Charlie.

• 1:55:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, it, it has a very specific feel.

• 1:55:42Dax Shepard?

  Do you like it or I like it? Do you like the feeling?

• 1:55:46Speaker 01

  Of being small?

• 1:55:48Dax Shepard?

  And safe.

• 1:55:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:55:49Dax Shepard?

  That's what I'm getting at. Like I'm hugging this guy and I'm like, oh, wow. I'm good if whatever runs up behind us, a rhinoceros, whatever, like it's, it's, it's on him. It's his job.

• 1:56:00Speaker 01

  Wow. And that's very unlike you.

• 1:56:03Dax Shepard?

  Exactly. It's a unique feeling for me to be, being held by a man that is so much more powerful and big than me that I know he should handle the grizzly bear when it comes through the door.

• 1:56:14Speaker 01

  And do you not feel that with Aaron?

• 1:56:15Dax Shepard?

  Aaron, I feel this perfect equanimity. Like I'm a wrestler. He's a puncher. Together we're great. We're a duo. I totally feel safer on Aaron. I know that like, I don't need to worry about what's behind me. I know that Aaron's always looking out for me. I know Aaron that would jump through fire for me.

• 1:56:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:37Dax Shepard?

  I think he feels that way about me. So yeah, when I'm with him, and this has been since seventh grade, I feel so safe all the time.

• 1:56:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:46Dax Shepard?

  He'll do anything to protect me and vice versa. But if a rhino comes through the door, Aaron and I gotta team up on it. I'm not like, Ryan, Aaron, go handle this. But if Dan Campbell was be like, Dan, you're up.

• 1:56:58Speaker 01

  You would?

• 1:57:00Dax Shepard?

  I think so. Yeah.

• 1:57:01Speaker 01

  Wow. That's a first. I've not heard you say that about anyone.

• 1:57:06Dax Shepard?

  Hence my giddiness.

• 1:57:07Speaker 01

  Like getting in, into it.

• 1:57:09Dax Shepard?

  I like being the guy that confronts the rhino, but also it feels very nice.

• 1:57:12Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 1:57:13Dax Shepard?

  To feel very safe that Campbell would be the one that would handle it.

• 1:57:16Speaker 01

  Pinning this, I want to circle back to something, but.

• 1:57:19Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great. Pinning the safety?

• 1:57:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:21Dax Shepard?

  Okay. I'm sorry. So fast forwarding, got to be on the field when they ran out. Incredible Matt Will Ford son. It was just very fun to meet the Ford family, chatted with a lot of different people. And then we were in the box with Roger Goodell. Roger Goodell is the NFL commissioner.

• 1:57:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:57:40Dax Shepard?

  And has been for a long time. And just to put, I know it's terrible to quantify it this way, but it made me recognize how esteemed the job is. His previous contract is 70 million a year.

• 1:57:50Speaker 01

  Woo.

• 1:57:51Dax Shepard?

  And he just signed another three year contract. No one even knows what it is, but when you're paying someone more than Lewis Hamilton, I feel like you've got a pretty important job. All this info is coming from Aaron because he knows way more about football than I do. So Roger, people don't like him.

• 1:58:07Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:58:07Dax Shepard?

  I think it's the nature of the job. Yeah, no one ever likes the commissioner. No, no one ever likes the commissioner.

• 1:58:12Speaker 01

  That's why they have to pay you a lot.

• 1:58:14Dax Shepard?

  Probably, but I'm not entering with that kind of baggage. I don't dislike him or like him. I just am flattered. He wanted us in his suite. I think largely because of that Golden Globes thing.

• 1:58:26Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:58:27Dax Shepard?

  I left one thing out. Before I went up to the suite, they played a video on the big screen of me watching the Golden Glove, watching the Lions game at the Golden Globes and then cut to, you know, and I had to wave and all that.

• 1:58:40Speaker 01

  Oh, cute. That is like McConaughey.

• 1:58:43Dax Shepard?

  Big time. And I've been in that situation several times at Lakers games and these different games. They'll put me on the Jumbotron.

• 1:58:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:49Dax Shepard?

  And it's at best, I would say it's in the past, it's like a C plus. Like I feel like generally maybe 30% of the Lakers crowd will know it's me and be excited.

• 1:59:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:59:03Dax Shepard?

  Because of that Golden Globes thing. It was legit. You know, I've always said, I never got, I'm always envious of that experience that the American Idol people get where they go to their hometown and they're in a convertible. I didn't think that would ever happen to me. And I'm like, when does that happen? That it happened.

• 1:59:17Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:59:18Dax Shepard?

  They showed that thing. They cut to me and the place legitimately went bananas.

• 1:59:24Speaker 01

  That's wild.

• 1:59:24Dax Shepard?

  It was almost hard to accept, but it was.

• 1:59:27Speaker 01

  Sweet.

• 1:59:28Dax Shepard?

  It was unbelievably lovely. I felt so like loved by my people. Then back, okay, Goodell, Roger, he was immediately most engaging with Aaron.

• 1:59:40Speaker 01

  Who would it be?

• 1:59:40Dax Shepard?

  Asking Aaron a ton of questions, really engaging him, talking to me, but like he's not the, he's not playing the status game. There's a lot of people in the

• 1:59:48Speaker 01

  Love that.

• 1:59:49Dax Shepard?

  Fucking Barry Sanders is in the box. He's the most famous Lions player of all time and the best player of all time and the best running back in history. He's in the thing. Roger could be chatting him up. He's talking to Aaron.

• 2:00:02Speaker 01

  I love him.

• 2:00:03Dax Shepard?

  Yes, he is the, and Aaron's like, I was anticipating that I would have to see my way out of conversations while we, you did your thing with the person who got us the tickets. And I was like, oh, this guy wants to chat with me, which he did. He's so down to earth and he was so lovely and hyper intelligent. And you can see why he's

• 2:00:23Speaker 01

  How old is he?

• 2:00:24Dax Shepard?

  Sixty-five. Because

• 2:00:27Speaker 01

  Feel good.

• 2:00:28Dax Shepard?

  I did make one joke that got him. We were talking about the thing I talked about on a previous fact check where it's like, you used to be younger than the players. Now you're older than them, but you're younger than the coaches.

• 2:00:37Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:00:38Dax Shepard?

  Then you're, now I'm older than the coaches and I hope to be younger than the owners. Thank God Martha's with us, ninety-nine.

• 2:00:44Speaker 01

  Thank God.

• 2:00:44Dax Shepard?

  I have a while, yeah. And he and I weren't talking about that. And I said, well, how old are you? Then he goes sixty-five. And I go, well, you look fucking great, which is true. He's very fit and looks great. Yeah, look up.

• 2:00:56Speaker 01

  Oh, he looks great. Yep.

• 2:00:58Dax Shepard?

  And I go, you look fucking great. You're definitely going to make it to seventy.

• 2:01:02Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:01:05Dax Shepard?

  And that, that really tickled him.

• 2:01:07Speaker 01

  That's fun.

• 2:01:07Dax Shepard?

  Okay. So as you can see, we were on fire. We were screaming. We were meeting people we idolize. It was the two of us were from down the road in a dirt road and it was really, really fulfilling and beautiful. And I was sharing it with Aaron and it was so special.

• 2:01:24Speaker 01

  Yay.

• 2:01:25Dax Shepard?

  Fighting back the tears the whole time. And the game starts, it's, it's, it's rough right from the get-go. We cannot get a stop. They, they score every time they get it. Luckily, we score every time we get it. Our offense is great. And it just It just goes downhill and it gets worse and worse and worse. And the crowd gets quieter and quieter, quieter. And I start thinking it's completely my fault because I haven't been to a game.

• 2:01:49Speaker 01

  And you hugged.

• 2:01:50Dax Shepard?

  And I hugged Dan. I'm sincerely regretting hugging Dan Campbell.

• 2:01:54Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah.

• 2:01:56Dax Shepard?

  But I think all fans do this. Carly thinks that the two games they lost this season was because Lola, her dog, didn't have her Detroit Lions bandana on.

• 2:02:03Speaker 01

  People do this. Now you understand my knocking on wood.

• 2:02:06Dax Shepard?

  I do. I was taking a lot of the blame for it.

• 2:02:11Speaker 01

  It's not your fault.

• 2:02:12Dax Shepard?

  But I was also refusing to let the outcome take away what a fun season it's been. And then this crazy experience with Aaron, that was as good as it could possibly get.

• 2:02:23Speaker 01

  Good. Remember when I thought that Trump won because my ring was off my finger?

• 2:02:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:27Speaker 01

  And you said, you're not that powerful.

• 2:02:30Dax Shepard?

  I kept telling myself.

• 2:02:31Speaker 01

  A nicer way, but you did say that.

• 2:02:33Dax Shepard?

  I was saying to myself to try to get myself out of the dumps.

• 2:02:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:37Dax Shepard?

  You don't have any control over the defense. Be great if you did.

• 2:02:41Speaker 01

  Not that powerful.

• 2:02:42Dax Shepard?

  You're not that powerful. But I was afraid other people would think I was that powerful.

• 2:02:46Speaker 01

  We'll tell them now here, you're not.

• 2:02:49Dax Shepard?

  I'm not sure if it's not my, I'm, I'm only like 70% it's not my fault.

• 2:02:53Speaker 01

  That's how I feel about Trump. I still feel it. I still feel like potentially it was the ring and the B.

• 2:02:59Dax Shepard?

  I feel like this is very universal. Rob, do you blame yourself when your team loses? Yeah, I've got lots of superstitions when I'm watching. Yeah. Oh, remember Rob Reiner was on? He said he went to the bathroom. They scored. And then he, so he had to keep going to the bathroom.

• 2:03:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, it'll happen.

• 2:03:17Speaker 05

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 2:03:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay, you wanted earmark safety.

• 2:03:31Speaker 01

  Yes, I did. So this is a big pivot, but it did remind me that while you were at the game, I had therapy.

• 2:03:41Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:03:43Speaker 01

  I had two big epiphanies.

• 2:03:45Dax Shepard?

  You did? Would you call them breakthroughs?

• 2:03:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:03:48Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:03:49Speaker 01

  Guided by my incredible.

• 2:03:51Dax Shepard?

  Your spiritual advisor?

• 2:03:52Speaker 01

  Yes, she's. She really is worth her money.

• 2:03:57Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great. Especially because you were a little bit on the fence on the New Year's, but whether you're going to continue on.

• 2:04:02Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I was like, maybe I just go to once a month. And now I'm like, I gotta go back to two times a week. So the fires, you know, it was the first time I'd seen her since then.

• 2:04:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:12Speaker 01

  And first of all, January sucks. I'm going to say that just, just like as a fact.

• 2:04:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:18Speaker 01

  January is the worst month of the year. It's horrible. Bad things happen.

• 2:04:23Dax Shepard?

  Jan 1 is when I had norovirus, yakking for eight hours. I'm kind of on board. The Lions lost.

• 2:04:29Speaker 01

  Three out of the five last Januaries have been horrendous.

• 2:04:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, I got it. You're saying in across the board, January blows.

• 2:04:38Speaker 01

  Januaries are bad.

• 2:04:39Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:04:40Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm sorry that your birthday is in there, but like, it's a bad, bad, bad, bad, bad month.

• 2:04:46Dax Shepard?

  Weather generally sucks.

• 2:04:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, weather sucks. People die, like, things go up in flames, literally. It's bad. But I do think they've all like, taught me something. I've come out of the, I've walked into February with new information. It's, it's been a gloomy January for a lot of reasons.

• 2:05:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:05Speaker 01

  And I was talking to her about that. Obviously, for the fires, we were fine, right? We didn't have to evacuate. Our houses are okay.

• 2:05:13Dax Shepard?

  We have the best version of it.

• 2:05:14Speaker 01

  Exactly. So lucky. But still, it's just been like, oh, my God, there's so much loss everywhere, every day. You're hearing about somebody else you know who lost everything and you're trying to figure out how to help. And it's just like overwhelming. So I kind of figured it was just that. I was like, I think I'm just overwhelmed by everything going on. Then we kind of got to that it was, I think, more than that, and more personal. And I think people who are sort of struggling through this here, who didn't, who didn't have like massive loss, but are, are still.

• 2:05:47Speaker 01

  Down.

• 2:05:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:49Speaker 01

  Cause I know a couple of people who are like depressed who aren't normally like I'm surprised.

• 2:05:54Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 2:05:54Speaker 01

  And I realized that like in the moment, especially in the moment when you're packing your bag up.

• 2:06:00Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:06:01Speaker 01

  And it's pa- I mean, you're panicked because you're like, I might have to be out of here in like 10 minutes.

• 2:06:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:06Speaker 01

  You're standing in your house or apartment or whatever, and you are faced with the two most like deepest, most existential questions that we have.

• 2:06:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:20Speaker 01

  Which are who do you really have?

• 2:06:23Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 2:06:23Speaker 01

  And what do you really need?

• 2:06:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, uh huh.

• 2:06:26Speaker 01

  And it's both at the exact same time.

• 2:06:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:30Speaker 01

  In a moment of panic, like you have to know the answer.

• 2:06:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:34Speaker 01

  And I think we walk around with so much false security about those questions. Like we think we know or it's fine, but this is like push comes to shove, what's the, what's your reality?

• 2:06:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:47Speaker 01

  And.

• 2:06:48Dax Shepard?

  The rubber meets the road in a.

• 2:06:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:49Dax Shepard?

  Evacuation.

• 2:06:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:51Speaker 01

  If you're forced to ask those questions and the answer is, I don't know.

• 2:06:57Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 2:06:58Speaker 01

  It's very heavy.

• 2:07:01Dax Shepard?

  Unsettling.

• 2:07:01Speaker 01

  It's very unsettling and destabilizing and un- and like you feel untethered.

• 2:07:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:08Speaker 01

  And I think that's potentially what, that's definitely what I am feeling and what I think other people might be feeling too. It's just gonna take some time to process.

• 2:07:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:20Speaker 01

  But I found that helpful to, to know, like, oh, that's what I'm sort of struggling with.

• 2:07:27Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 2:07:27Speaker 01

  It's a deeper, it's much deeper.

• 2:07:30Dax Shepard?

  You can't work on future natural disasters as a cure.

• 2:07:34Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 2:07:35Dax Shepard?

  Right? You can only work on the things that actually emerged in that situation.

• 2:07:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:43Dax Shepard?

  That are personal.

• 2:07:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. Also, she told me, and this was also fascinating, is in times of true crisis, and this also happens like in death, um.

• 2:07:58Speaker 01

  People become their truest, like most base version of themselves.

• 2:08:06Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 2:08:06Speaker 01

  And like not the person they've worked on becoming or are mostly.

• 2:08:13Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 2:08:13Speaker 01

  But who they are at their core.

• 2:08:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:16Speaker 01

  And it's so true. I was thinking about who I was and who other people were in my life and what was happening.

• 2:08:26Dax Shepard?

  What I was bringing up about like, we do have this genetic wiring to fulfill a role that when it happens, that thing really goes to the front and center.

• 2:08:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:37Dax Shepard?

  Is it related to that or no?

• 2:08:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so. I think it's connected.

• 2:08:41Dax Shepard?

  You're almost your genetics take over.

• 2:08:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:44Dax Shepard?

  Not the artifice of your identity.

• 2:08:46Speaker 01

  But I don't know if it's genetic so much as, yeah, yes, but also what you did when you were a kid, how you coped, how you like, a lot of like your biggest fears, your insecurities, those things come to the forefront and they're leading the charge. Like they are the thing that comes out. It's wild.

• 2:09:09Dax Shepard?

  And this is one of the times where um having a high A score is like really nice.

• 2:09:17Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 2:09:18Dax Shepard?

  Um, because you've already, you've done a bunch of these. You know, I've done a bunch of police are at the house and fire departments at the house.

• 2:09:26Speaker 01

  But you're still a person. You're still a person in there. You still have a personality.

• 2:09:31Dax Shepard?

  But I have a lot of practice, like submersion therapy, which is like, yeah, we're going dads in the middle of the night. You live there now. That's disruptive. And then sixth grade's fun. You know, like I, I have a ton of personal experience where it's like, I lived on the other side of those.

• 2:09:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:09:49Dax Shepard?

  Does that make sense?

• 2:09:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:50Dax Shepard?

  And I think for a lot of people that have been terrified a bunch of different times, one of the only benefits is like, you're like, oh yeah, here's another thing.

• 2:10:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:01Dax Shepard?

  And it'll be all right.

• 2:10:03Speaker 01

  Yes, I think there's like two things happening. One is like what you're doing, right? And then the other is what you're thinking, who you are in those moments. Like it is, it's different, right? Like I, we talked about this before where it was sort of the first time I had to be like, I have to do everything. I have to figure out what I'm taking. I have to load it in the car. I have to make sure I have this, this and this. Things I don't norm, things I normally just say like whoever I'm with is gonna do half of that stuff.

• 2:10:31Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 2:10:32Speaker 01

  And so I'm, I'm doing it, but what's coming up and who I am in it and what I'm thinking is like,

• 2:10:40Dax Shepard?

  I'm alone.

• 2:10:40Speaker 01

  I have nobody. I am abandoned. I am really, all I have is myself. I'm scared.

• 2:10:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:49Speaker 01

  First and foremost, like that's, I'm scared. I'm a, I'm a fearful person and I have overcome a lot of that in life, but not in this circumstance. I can't. So it's like, it's at a 10.

• 2:11:02Dax Shepard?

  Well, you've probably just been ratcheting up what level for you is manageable over time as you've grown, right?

• 2:11:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:10Dax Shepard?

  Like panic attacks and soul cycle versus now.

• 2:11:14Dax Shepard?

  There is a threshold that you've kept moving up. You can handle it and such and such. And then yeah, some things exceed that threshold.

• 2:11:23Speaker 01

  Yes. And it also was,

• 2:11:27Speaker 01

  I think important for me to have understanding for how everyone's behaving. Like everyone is gonna behave quite differently because we're all different and had much different life experiences and deal with trauma in very, very, very different ways.

• 2:11:46Dax Shepard?

  Yep.

• 2:11:47Speaker 01

  Cause like on Tuesday, Tuesday night, the first night when it was starting, I was like, you know, texting with every, a lot of people.

• 2:11:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:00Speaker 01

  And I was like, I don't like, I don't even know. I don't know what to do. I don't know. How, how do we, what, Callie and I were both like, well, yeah, we don't know what to do here. Like, what, where do we go? What do we do? We were also like, kind of joking.

• 2:12:12Dax Shepard?

  Of course.

• 2:12:13Speaker 01

  And then I, and I was also texting with Jess and in my head, I was like, well, Jess is down the street. So like, that's easy. We'll go. And then at like nine, the other, we start, I started looking at the other fire, the Eaton fire, and it is getting like bigger and bigger. And I called him and he was asleep. And I was like, oh my God, how can you possibly go to sleep right now? Like, this is crazy. And then I was like, yeah, I think that's who he is in, in crisis. He like, really calm, but to almost like whatever happens.

• 2:12:49Dax Shepard?

  Disassociated.

• 2:12:49Speaker 01

  What, disassociated. Whatever happens is gonna happen. I can't really control it. So I'm just gonna go to bed.

• 2:12:58Dax Shepard?

  I have a question.

• 2:12:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:00Dax Shepard?

  Potentially dangerous, but this just happened, right? It happened with Tom Hanson. I was, to be vague intentionally, I was very much on the, the verge of blowing everything up in a very public way because of my anger towards something.

• 2:13:17Dax Shepard?

  And I ended up sharing about it in a meeting that he was at. And in that chair, he learns of the timeline. So then he, he calls me the next day because he's my dad and he wants to help me.

• 2:13:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:31Dax Shepard?

  And I don't, I don't call him back. And I don't, I don't call him back for three days. And finally, in the third day, he's like, what the fuck's going on? Why won't you call me back? And I finally FaceTime him and I go, I didn't want to talk to you because I didn't want to hear the right answer.

• 2:13:46Dax Shepard?

  I didn't want the right answer and I know you have the right answer.

• 2:13:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:51Dax Shepard?

  And so I was avoiding you because I wasn't there. I still wanted to torch everything.

• 2:13:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:57Dax Shepard?

  And I didn't want to be talked down and, and I apologize, but I just, uh, so in that way, I think we often call people that we want to confirm the answer we're looking for. Right? I, I do it. I know people call me. Someone wants to buy a motorcycle. They don't call their doctor. They call me.

• 2:14:15Speaker 01

  Well, of course, but that's expertise.

• 2:14:17Dax Shepard?

  Well, and they know like I'm pro motorcycle, right?

• 2:14:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:21Dax Shepard?

  So I'm curious in that same construct, when you start texting people, do you feel that you you start texting other people that you know will also be really nervous and not texting people that you know are going to tell you it's not bad?

• 2:14:34Speaker 01

  Hmm. That's a good question.

• 2:14:36Dax Shepard?

  The dangerous part is like, what didn't happen was you didn't text me.

• 2:14:40Speaker 01

  Yes, I didn't.

• 2:14:41Dax Shepard?

  And you knew it wasn't going to go well if you did, which is fair.

• 2:14:44Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 2:14:45Dax Shepard?

  And we invited you over and you didn't want to be around my energy, which would have been

• 2:14:50Speaker 01

  Well, there were multiple things hap- there was so much happening then that that is more complicated.

• 2:14:56Dax Shepard?

  Okay. But back to, do you think, do you think that's happening at all? Are you calling the people that are going to most reassure you? Are they going to call the people that are going to confirm it's as scary and dangerous as you feel like it is?

• 2:15:09Speaker 01

  That's a good question. I mean, I guess I'm probably, I'm probably reaching out to people that will confirm, but but more, I'm, I'm, especially in this case, I, I know, like, I know for certain that you aren't panicked about this, right?

• 2:15:29Dax Shepard?

  Right, yes, yes.

• 2:15:29Speaker 01

  Me reaching out to you, all I would have

• 2:15:32Dax Shepard?

  It's kind of be frustrating, probably.

• 2:15:33Speaker 01

  All I would have said is like, I'm really scared.

• 2:15:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:37Speaker 01

  And then I think my fear then is if you respond without compassion.

• 2:15:44Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 2:15:44Speaker 01

  That will upset me.

• 2:15:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:46Speaker 01

  So what's the point, right? Like, I know where you stand on it and I'm not

• 2:15:50Dax Shepard?

  Because I, well, I know what I would have done. I've been like, first of all, you will not die because you can get in your car and drive away from this fire, right? Like, I'd start going through the reasons that, let's just start with, you're not going to die tonight, not going to die tomorrow.

• 2:16:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:16:04Dax Shepard?

  Right?

• 2:16:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:16:05Dax Shepard?

  And if your car doesn't start, you call me, I'll pick you up.

• 2:16:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:16:09Dax Shepard?

  You're not going to die.

• 2:16:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:16:11Dax Shepard?

  That would be like, my first goal is just go like, there's a lot of things on the table here. Yeah, you might lose your shit. You might lose this beautiful house you've been building forever. Like, we might get to that, but let's just, I would have just wanted to start with like, This isn't a tsunami and we live on the.

• 2:16:26Speaker 01

  No, I know.

• 2:16:26Dax Shepard?

  You know, like we can escape this.

• 2:16:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:16:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:30Speaker 01

  Which would have been helpful, I'm, I'm sure, but I don't know in that moment. What is at a 10 is I'm alone.

• 2:16:39Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 2:16:39Speaker 01

  So I don't think, like, all I was really trying to do subconsciously is confirm that I'm not.

• 2:16:48Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 2:16:49Speaker 01

  Or that I am.

• 2:16:50Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:16:51Speaker 01

  Some validation or confirmation.

• 2:16:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:53Speaker 01

  And so I don't, I don't know. I mean, I was texting, the range of people that I was texting was not, they were not, it wasn't all panic. Again, just slept. So I was like, okay.

• 2:17:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Well, there's probably two things going on. There's like a logistical call list.

• 2:17:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:09Dax Shepard?

  And then there's a comfort call list.

• 2:17:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:12Dax Shepard?

  And yeah, I, I, I probably would have been bad at it. I would have gone straight into what I do often and try to avoid, but still keep doing, which is like not observe you, but try to fix.

• 2:17:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:17:25Dax Shepard?

  The anxiety.

• 2:17:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:17:26Dax Shepard?

  I would be trying to point out, we are not going to die tonight, you know? I, I wouldn't, I would be bad at going, yeah, well, you know, like I, I wouldn't be good at.

• 2:17:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:39Dax Shepard?

  I want to be good at it.

• 2:17:40Speaker 01

  You don't need to be good at meeting me at anxious. Like I, I don't think that's good.

• 2:17:46Dax Shepard?

  I saw some people, I'll just leave it at that.

• 2:17:49Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 2:17:50Dax Shepard?

  And when I saw them, this was on Thursday morning.

• 2:17:52Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 2:17:53Dax Shepard?

  The look on both of their faces was, and I registered, oh, fuck, their house burnt down.

• 2:18:00Speaker 01

  But it didn't.

• 2:18:01Dax Shepard?

  It didn't.

• 2:18:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. But maybe they were sitting with some of these things.

• 2:18:04Dax Shepard?

  I'm not, I'm not at all shaming anyone for how they dealt with it, but I went, oh my God. Clearly their house is gone. Um, and it wasn't. So then I think the.

• 2:18:25Dax Shepard?

  Primal, primitive side of me goes, we can't have this. It's not productive. We are actually in a situation and there is not room for that. So snap into survival mode.

• 2:18:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:18:38Dax Shepard?

  And so, yeah, I think I can tend to get frustrated in that situation that I think certain people are making things worse.

• 2:18:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:46Dax Shepard?

  In an already bad situation.

• 2:18:48Speaker 01

  Yes, I do think.

• 2:18:49Dax Shepard?

  And that was, that was definitely the vibe of my household, you know?

• 2:18:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:53Dax Shepard?

  Um, so, yeah, that's, um.

• 2:18:56Speaker 01

  And I think I know that.

• 2:18:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:18:58Speaker 01

  About you and, and sometimes that is where we butt heads. Because I feel like I, I can, should, it's okay for me to care.

• 2:19:16Dax Shepard?

  To be scared.

• 2:19:16Speaker 01

  And scared and whatever. All, yeah, and.

• 2:19:19Dax Shepard?

  And you have no more control over your reaction than I have over mine.

• 2:19:22Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:19:24Dax Shepard?

  I think all of those things would have been true if, if we were heavily interacting during all that.

• 2:19:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19:30Dax Shepard?

  And I accept it all and I, and I cause a lot of that.

• 2:19:33Speaker 01

  Well, we.

• 2:19:34Dax Shepard?

  But the only thing I wanted, the thing I need to say out loud that I hope you didn't feel is, I would not be judging you or thinking you're stupid.

• 2:19:43Speaker 01

  I don't think.

• 2:19:43Dax Shepard?

  Like if there was any part of you that's afraid to tell me how you feel because I'm gonna be judgmental of it. That wouldn't happen. That, that wouldn't have happened and I ha, and I don't feel that way. I do get pragmatic about if everyone's bawling before we've got in the car, that's gonna be a really hard, right?

• 2:20:01Speaker 01

  Totally. But do you?

• 2:20:03Dax Shepard?

  But I'm not angry at anyone for having their emotions or judgmental of it. I, I recognize and accept it and I'm not, I don't feel above it.

• 2:20:12Speaker 01

  But do you think, and whatever answers, right? My guess is you think I overreact a lot in general, just in general as a person.

• 2:20:21Dax Shepard?

  See, it's, it's the over that makes it a judgment.

• 2:20:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:20:24Dax Shepard?

  Can I observe that you and I, like, I break four ribs, break my clavicle into five pieces, break my hand, break my humerus?

• 2:20:34Dax Shepard?

  Drive home six hours, go ride two more sessions on the track, drive home five, six hours, go to sleep, don't go to the doctor, don't go to the following day. So that's how I react to things. And then when you cut your hand, you were very scared and you reached out to a lot of people. So do I recognize the humongous delta between how you and I react to things? I absolutely do. But it's not over and I'm not under. It is, this is how Dax reacts for myriad of reasons.

• 2:21:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21:04Dax Shepard?

  And this is how Monica reacts for a myriad of reasons.

• 2:21:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:21:06Dax Shepard?

  And so that's what, that's the thing I wanted to bring up and make sure you're crystal clear on. I'm not saying overreact. I'm saying, I see how you react to things. I can observe it. It's much different than how I react to things.

• 2:21:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21:22Dax Shepard?

  But that does not make me conclude I'm better.

• 2:21:25Speaker 01

  I feel that you think that I get upset, overthink. Well, I do. I get upset over things that you don't get upset over.

• 2:21:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:37Speaker 01

  To me, that's fine.

• 2:21:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:21:40Speaker 01

  The things I get upset over, I believe are upsetting. Like I, and I think it's okay to be upset about those things. And I understand that you don't like, I'm not, I, I do think at one point, an hour long friendship, I was like, why aren't you upset about this? I used to be like that.

• 2:21:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:22:00Speaker 01

  Towards you. Like, I don't understand why you're not upset about this. This is upsetting.

• 2:22:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:05Speaker 01

  I don't think that anymore at all. And I respect that you don't, but I, I wonder if.

• 2:22:13Dax Shepard?

  Well, we can go right at, we can go right at it. There's a lot of things on the table here.

• 2:22:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:18Dax Shepard?

  Do I accept that about you? Yes. Do, uh, does it make me love you less? No. Does it make me not want to be friends with you? Absolutely not. Now, you and I also do a job together.

• 2:22:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:28Dax Shepard?

  We sit down in here to do a fact check and I sit down on a couch and I look across to see you.

• 2:22:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:33Dax Shepard?

  And often you're upset about things like the election and you can't shake it.

• 2:22:40Dax Shepard?

  When you're in here. So now, do I think inside of this box, we have to be entertaining? And we have to kind of manage how much of a downer we are? I do professionally.

• 2:22:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:22:52Dax Shepard?

  I think we have an obligation, like the newscasters got to come on and they can't start crying during the thing. Now, they can feel however they want throughout the whole day. Go ahead.

• 2:23:02Speaker 01

  Well, it's just very subjective, like you cry and people come in here and they cry. And they're allowed and it's actually some, it's to me, it's an asset, not crying. But, but what we've built here, and I do think it's we have built here. A, a place of honesty.

• 2:23:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:24Speaker 01

  And to come in and to plaster a smile when, when I'm scared or there's fires or there's an election that I think is deeply disturbing to me.

• 2:23:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:40Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm not saying we need to like wallow in it, but I think it would be such a disservice, not just to me, to this show, to our audience, to what we've built here, to pretend like

• 2:23:53Speaker 01

  those things aren't upsetting, like.

• 2:23:54Dax Shepard?

  It's fine if we have a bit of a difference of opinion on that. I do think this show has to be entertaining. And I don't think either of us can be in a shit mood for four weeks. I think we have an obligation to rise above that. I do. And we differ in that. And I understand what you're saying. Like, well, this is honestly me.

• 2:24:11Dax Shepard?

  And of course, I'm not trying to make someone not be honestly them, but I know if I'm listening to Howard Stern and Robin, and one of them is just in a dark hole for three weeks. I have compassion for them, but I'm gonna go listen to something else at some point. I can't join someone on my hour drive where I'm trying to feel, where I'm trying to distract myself from the things I'm worrying about. I'm looking for a reprieve. So I think it's, I think it's okay. We do have different opinions on what this, what obligation we have here to a degree. And I think there's only some, I think there is room for us to be our real selves.

• 2:24:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:52Dax Shepard?

  But I also think it needs to be monitored and we have to be responsible to, do these people that rely on us for us, an escape?

• 2:25:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25:02Dax Shepard?

  Deserve something fun and funny. A lot of the time.

• 2:25:06Speaker 01

  I get that.

• 2:25:07Dax Shepard?

  We did a really good job with that, I think.

• 2:25:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Uh, anyway.

• 2:25:13Dax Shepard?

  Do you think we did a good job with that?

• 2:25:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:15Speaker 01

  Okay, but we are, we're running low on time.

• 2:25:18Dax Shepard?

  Facts.

• 2:25:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, we have facts. Okay, so this is for, oh, and I guess it's timely that we talked about the fires and stuff because this is for Josh.

• 2:25:27Dax Shepard?

  Gad, wonderful.

• 2:25:30Speaker 01

  We deep dived.

• 2:25:31Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 2:25:32Speaker 01

  Into that.

• 2:25:34Dax Shepard?

  He's a perfect guest.

• 2:25:35Speaker 01

  He is.

• 2:25:36Dax Shepard?

  He's a perfect guest.

• 2:25:38Speaker 01

  He really is. I, I DM'd him and said so.

• 2:25:41Dax Shepard?

  Oh, good. Yeah. He's funny. He's smart. He's emotional. He's truthful.

• 2:25:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, what a soup to nuts. Same with Adam Scott. I was really delighted with the Adam Scott episode. Really, really delighted.

• 2:25:55Speaker 01

  Sweetheart. Okay, Josh Gad, you can gift up to $18,000 tax-free, but now it's $19,000.

• 2:26:03Dax Shepard?

  Great news.

• 2:26:04Speaker 01

  Great news for everyone. You said your grandparents took you to Scarface in 1981 on opening day and you were six and it was 83.

• 2:26:11Dax Shepard?

  Not as good of a story.

• 2:26:12Speaker 01

  Well, eight is still young.

• 2:26:14Dax Shepard?

  It's still young, but it's not a great story.

• 2:26:17Speaker 01

  But you know what? We already know that you wouldn't remember it if it was six. So it actually makes more sense that you were eight.

• 2:26:25Dax Shepard?

  It does. It does. Well, here comes the great thing. And this is on topic because he's written a memoir.

• 2:26:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:31Dax Shepard?

  I have tons of memories. I have tons of memories and I know my kids don't remember shit. So of course I'm quite skeptical of them, but I, there, I could take a polygraph.

• 2:26:42Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, because you believe it. So you'll pass it. I, I, I know every time someone says now, and I feel bad, but when people say like, oh yeah, I was three and I remember, I'm like, you don't.

• 2:26:54Dax Shepard?

  But okay, I'm reading Bill Gates' book right now.

• 2:26:57Speaker 01

  Oh, he might because.

• 2:26:58Dax Shepard?

  He does. I believe it.

• 2:26:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, but his brain's different than most people's. So, speaking of.

• 2:27:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:06Speaker 01

  Easter egg. I guess we can talk about this later, maybe if you want.

• 2:27:09Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:27:10Speaker 01

  Have you started telepathy tapes?

• 2:27:14Dax Shepard?

  No, what is that? I saw that in the comments.

• 2:27:16Speaker 01

  It's a podcast.

• 2:27:18Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:27:18Speaker 01

  About neurodivergent, mainly nonverbal autism.

• 2:27:23Dax Shepard?

  Oh, Kristen listened to it.

• 2:27:25Speaker 01

  Yes, she did. Um, most of the girls are listening to it in our group. Um, and it, nonverbal autism, a lot of people have stories about their children.

• 2:27:38Dax Shepard?

  Communicating telepathically over a distance of miles, like in a town.

• 2:27:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27:42Dax Shepard?

  Meeting in a place called like Mind Mountain or something where they all.

• 2:27:45Speaker 01

  I haven't got there yet, but also they mainly with their like parents, it's often, I mean, I'm only, I'm only one episode in. I do think the human brain.

• 2:27:54Dax Shepard?

  Has more potential than we're aware of.

• 2:27:55Speaker 01

  Then we'll ever know.

• 2:27:57Dax Shepard?

  Yep.

• 2:27:57Speaker 01

  And I think, I kind of do think anything is possible.

• 2:28:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:01Speaker 01

  For the brain.

• 2:28:02Dax Shepard?

  I overheard a lot of it. I was debating not whether or not to listen to it.

• 2:28:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:28:06Dax Shepard?

  I asked a friend that we very much trust, you and I, an incredibly smart friend.

• 2:28:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. He says there's little science to back any of that up.

• 2:28:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And that will be so hurtful to the people who have experiences and maybe they've experienced it, whatever. But I, I would need a pretty robust bit of science behind it to believe that people are tell, telepathically communicating over miles. It's a tough one for me.

• 2:28:32Speaker 01

  I don't know about the over miles because I'm not there. Well, someone said something really interesting about it. They were like, we've all in some ways communicated telepathically, like nonverbally to people we are very hyper connected to.

• 2:28:43Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 2:28:44Speaker 01

  And just in a room, you know, you can feel, we can feel energy shifting. There's real.

• 2:28:51Dax Shepard?

  But would you agree? I think that's way more pattern recognition. So like, I know you so well. I've observed now so many contexts where things happen and then I see the results of it.

• 2:29:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:29:02Dax Shepard?

  So, so often we're at a dinner and I hear someone say something and I know in a second what you're going to think. And then I look over at your face and then you look at me and I confirm, oh yeah, I do know exactly and vice versa.

• 2:29:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, but.

• 2:29:13Dax Shepard?

  But that to me is more pattern recognition, like, oh, stimulus A generally results in output B.

• 2:29:20Speaker 01

  But don't you think even when we're sitting here, I'm sitting there next to you. You can't see my face.

• 2:29:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:28Speaker 01

  But often-

• 2:29:28Dax Shepard?

  I can feel the fuck out of your energy.

• 2:29:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:29:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.

• 2:29:31Speaker 01

  And vice versa, I do too.

• 2:29:32Dax Shepard?

  But I can't actually hear your thoughts.

• 2:29:34Speaker 01

  I know, but it's, I think it's, that's a little like, that's a little rigid, I think.

• 2:29:40Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:29:40Speaker 01

  Cause I, I, all I'm, all I'm trying to say is, I think people do communicate non-verbally a lot. We don't even really recognize it.

• 2:29:48Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 2:29:49Speaker 01

  And I do think people are on a scale of how attuned they are to other people's energies. And it depends on the person, definitely.

• 2:29:58Dax Shepard?

  Yep.

• 2:29:59Speaker 01

  And so I don't know, I'm open to that being-

• 2:30:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:02Speaker 01

  The truth.

• 2:30:03Dax Shepard?

  Let me just say, I want that to be the truth.

• 2:30:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:30:06Dax Shepard?

  I would love the notion that these non-verbal kids are communicating telepathically. I actually want that.

• 2:30:12Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 2:30:13Dax Shepard?

  But I have such a knee jerk about getting duped.

• 2:30:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:30:18Dax Shepard?

  Like, I know there's an emotional thread to this that makes it a little bit, and that is a red flag to me. It's like, yes, I think when you get me emotionally involved, and I am very sympathetic already to the subjects.

• 2:30:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:30:30Dax Shepard?

  I'm not really in my most subjective mind anymore, you know?

• 2:30:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. Remember, um, the woman we had on-

• 2:30:36Dax Shepard?

  About hiring more neurodivergent people?

• 2:30:38Speaker 01

  Yes, and she herself was, is neurodivergent.

• 2:30:41Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 2:30:42Speaker 01

  And remember, like, she has-

• 2:30:43Dax Shepard?

  She had the opposite of-

• 2:30:45Speaker 01

  She could just pull the meaning from a book, from basically staring at the pages. Like, she, she does have skills that just-

• 2:30:53Dax Shepard?

  Boggle the mind?

• 2:30:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:30:54Dax Shepard?

  Absolutely.

• 2:30:55Speaker 01

  Marine Dune. Marine Dune, yeah.

• 2:30:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, Marine Dune.

• 2:30:58Speaker 01

  That's all very interesting.

• 2:30:59Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 2:31:00Speaker 01

  And I don't know why I brought that up. There was a, oh, memories, maybe? Memories, heard about memories. Okay, real quick, um-

• 2:31:11Speaker 01

  He said the funniest person he ever worked with was Andrew Reynolds minus us.

• 2:31:18Dax Shepard?

  Present company excluded.

• 2:31:20Speaker 01

  Exactly, but we have not worked with him. So then it brought up this interesting question.

• 2:31:25Dax Shepard?

  You could count us doing an episode with him.

• 2:31:28Speaker 01

  I don't count that.

• 2:31:28Dax Shepard?

  That's our work.

• 2:31:29Speaker 01

  That's.

• 2:31:30Dax Shepard?

  And his work is promoting.

• 2:31:31Speaker 01

  I don't count it.

• 2:31:32Dax Shepard?

  It's a stretch.

• 2:31:33Speaker 01

  Then that brought up this interesting philosophical question that's in my book, Intermetso. There's a really interesting question that comes up in this book I'm reading that's sort of similar to this of what's a tru- what's truth? And what's a lie? And I'm gonna, we're, we'll talk about it next week. I'll bring it up.

• 2:31:50Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great. Yeah, read it like, do the thing from the book, exact.

• 2:31:53Speaker 01

  Okay, well, that's kinda, that's it.

• 2:31:56Dax Shepard?

  That's it?

• 2:31:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:31:57Dax Shepard?

  All right.

• 2:31:57Speaker 01

  I mean, GLP-1s, that was a really interesting topic and conversation, I thought. I was happy he talked about it.

• 2:32:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, me too.

• 2:32:06Speaker 01

  But also, yeah, they're just doing so, they're finding so much interesting stuff about GLP-1s and I'm interested.

• 2:32:13Dax Shepard?

  I'd say 10% of Eric and I's conversations are about GLP-1s.

• 2:32:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:17Speaker 01

  It's really wild.

• 2:32:18Dax Shepard?

  Very fascinating.

• 2:32:19Speaker 01

  I kinda wanna try it.

• 2:32:22Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:32:23Speaker 01

  Not for weight loss. No, not for, yeah, not, not even for, I just wanna see, like, what does it do on my psyche?

• 2:32:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, Eric's the exact same. Like, there's no shift other than he doesn't eat as much.

• 2:32:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:32:38Dax Shepard?

  You know what I'm saying? And he doesn't crave sugar.

• 2:32:40Speaker 01

  Which.

• 2:32:40Dax Shepard?

  And so he's not in a shitty mood because he hasn't eaten 10 pounds of sugar. So it's like, it does impact his mood, but not because it's changing his mood, but because he's not actually dealing with all the fallout from.

• 2:32:51Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 2:32:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Again, it sounds all great, but beneficial to me.

• 2:32:55Speaker 01

  It might highlight what your addictions are, because if you stop wanting something, it might tell you, like, actually, you crave that a lot.

• 2:33:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:33:05Speaker 01

  Anyway, um, all right, so that's it.

• 2:33:08Dax Shepard?

  All right. I rode my bike by your house today.

• 2:33:10Speaker 01

  Oh, you did?

• 2:33:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:11Speaker 01

  Did you wave?

• 2:33:12Dax Shepard?

  Yep. Love you.

• 2:33:13Speaker 01

  Love you.