#546: Srivatsan Prakash On The 6 Most Legendary Trades of All-Time

Srivatsan Prakash is the Host of the Market Champions podcast and one of the best read people in the finance industry. You can follow him on Twitter at @elite_investor. In this conversation, we discuss George Soros breaking the Pound, Paul Tudor Jones in 1987 crash, Andy Kreiger with the Kiwi Dollar, David Tepper during the Global Financial Crisis, John Paulson using Credit Default Swaps, and John Arnold trading natural gas in 2006. ======================= Choice is a new self-directed IRA product that I'm really excited about. If you are listening to this, you are likely part of the 7.1 million bitcoin owners who have retirement accounts with dollars in them, but not bitcoin. I was in that situation too. Now you can actually buy real Bitcoin in your retirement account. I'm talking about owning your private keys and using tax-advantaged dollars to do it too. Absolute game changer. https://www.retirewithchoice.com/pomp ======================= Gemini is a regulated cryptocurrency exchange, wallet, and custodian that makes it simple and secure to buy bitcoin, ether, and other cryptocurrencies: https://www.gemini.com/ =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Let's kick this thing off. Srivatsan Prakash is the host of the Market Champions Podcast and one of the best read people in the finance industry. You can follow him on Twitter @Elite-Investor. In this conversation, we discuss George Soros breaking the British pound, Paul Tudor Jones in the 1987 crash, Andy Krieger with the Kiwi dollar, David Tepper during the global financial crisis, John Paulson using credit default swaps, and John Arnold trading natural

• 0:40Anthony Pompliano?

  gas in 2006. These are some of the all-time greatest trades that have ever happened in finance, and Srivatsan does a great job breaking them down. I really hope you enjoy this conversation. But before we get into this episode, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. First up is BlockFi. BlockFi provides financial products for crypto investors. Those products include a high-yield interest account, a US dollar loan product where you can deposit crypto and they give you a US dollar loan against your crypto collateral, and a no-fee cryptocurrency exchange. BlockFi is also launching a new Bitcoin Rewards credit card. It's a normal credit card, but when you swipe it, you get Bitcoin back rather than cash back or airline miles. To sign up for this waitlist or use any of their other products, go to

• 1:25Anthony Pompliano?

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• 3:38Anthony Pompliano?

  It's free Bitcoin if you go and you'd make that trade. So go check it out. Gemini.com/pomp. I think you'll really enjoy the experience. All right, let's get in this episode with Srivatsan. I really hope that you enjoy this one.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano is a partner at Morgan Creek Digital. All opinions expressed by Pomp or his guests on this podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Morgan Creek Digital or Morgan Creek Capital Management. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 4:16Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, guys. Bang, bang. I've got Srivatsan here with me. Thank you so much for doing this.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having me. It's awesome to be here.

• 4:24Anthony Pompliano?

  For sure. Before we get into the six most legendary trades of all time, I want everyone to just know a little bit more about you. Tell us a little bit about your background, how old you are and what you spend your day doing.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  So my name is Shwatsan. I'm seventeen right now. So I sort of got into the world of finance at about thirteen or fourteen. So it was basically, it was basically sort of an intersection of my interests back then. So I was really interested in economics. Was also really interested in geopolitics and making money as well. So it's sort of all intersected. And you know, I started reading about investing, about Warren Buffett, value investing, which is sort of what I, which is sort of what I do. So I spend a lot of time looking at annual reports, looking at company numbers, the fundamentals and so on and so forth. And so that's sort of how I got into finance.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  And I also run a podcast called Market Champions, which I featured you on. I don't know if you remember, but I had you on, I believe, about four or five months ago. But that was pretty cool. And you know, I feature all kinds of traders, you know, people who do equities, people who do currencies and whatnot. I spend basically most of my day, I'm a one, doing my regular school stuff and then looking at, you know, annual reports, interviewing people and you know, so on and so forth. So that's sort of what I do.

• 5:46Anthony Pompliano?

  I love it. I wanted to bring you on the podcast because you recently tweeted four of the most legendary trades of all time. And then we're going to add two more for, for this episode. But maybe let's just start with the first one. You said George Soros and the Bank of England and breaking the pound. Maybe tell us that story real quick.

• 6:05Speaker 02

  Absolutely. So that's, that's probably the single most legendary trade of all time. Pretty much, you know, everyone who works on Wall Street probably knows this story really well. So back then. And before that, before this trade, Soros was not actually very well known. He was not as well known as he is today. So back then, there was this exchange rate mechanism. So what, what it basically did was it said that the pound has to trade between 2.78 Deutschmarks and 3.13 Deutschmarks. And you know, back then in Germany, the currency was Deutschmark and not the Euro as it is today. And so after the reunification of Germany, so when Eastern, East Germany and West Germany, you know, they reconciled and they reunited.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  The German Central Bank raised interest rates all the way up because they were scared that, you know, they're going to see a lot of inflation. And at the, at the same time, the UK economy was actually in recession, which means that the right policy in the UK.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  Would be to have lower rates so that stimulates growth and whatnot. But what ended up happening was the Bank of England had to actually maintain, I know, this this band or this trading band so that, because when you have lower interest rates, what happens is your currency goes lower. When you have higher interest rates, your currency was higher. And so since Germany had really high interest rates, their currency was all the way at the top of the band. So it was rising against the pound. And so what Soros thought was that eventually Britain would have to reduce rates so that they're able to get out of this recession. And when they do reduce rates, Britain would eventually see the pound fall out of the exchange rate mechanism. And to add to this, number one,

• 7:48Speaker 02

  the precedent of the Bundesbank, the German central bank, said that the pound could come under pressure and could possibly be devalued. So that sort of added to the bearish sentiment. Another thing was that the chief of the BOE at that time, I can't remember his name right now, but he said that he was going to spend about fifteen billion dollars defending the Great British Pound and defending this exchange rate mechanism. And Soros thought to himself, hey, that's the exact amount of pounds that I was going to sell. So Soros himself wanted to sell about fifteen billion pounds, fifteen billion dollars worth of pounds. So the person who actually found this trade was Stanley Chuckanmiller, who used to work for Soros at the time. And funny enough, the story goes that Stanley Chuckanmiller

• 8:33Speaker 02

  had found this trade and he walks into Soros' office and he tells Soros about it. And Soros looks at him so, sort of so menacingly, Stanley Chuckanmiller thought that Soros was just about to rip apart his entire thesis. And what ended up happening was Soros said that this was a once in a lifetime bet. And while Stanley Chuckanmiller had about one billion dollars worth of position on it, Soros told him, he had to ten x that, to ten billion, to fifteen billion. And they spent a lot of time actually just sitting there selling the pound to whoever would buy it. And You know, this was sort of a once in a lifetime trade and you know, you're able to also see that

• 9:15Speaker 02

  it's a very asymmetric trade. So if the, if you know, if Stanley Shuckamullah was wrong and you know, the E R O was able to continue, the maximum he would lose is whatever the difference is in the band. So it can't go higher than whatever the limit on the band is. So there is only a maximum loss there. However, the maximum profit was unlimited because the, because the pound could just collapse and you know, it could get absolutely destroyed. And in the, and the, and in the middle of September 1992, when I believe it's called Black Wednesday happened, everyone was just simply trying to sit there selling pounds. And there was, there's another extremely famous macro trader, his name was Lewis Bacon. And on that day, he was able to find, you know, people to sell, people

• 9:57Speaker 02

  to sell pounds to. But then, you know, Soros was unable to find people to sell pounds to. And you know, he was very, very pissed off that, you know, Lewis Bacon was able to find people to take the other side of the trade, but he was not. And you know, that sort of, and you know, eventually, the UK government and the central bank realized that they're trying to say the exchange rate mechanism was futile and, and the currency would eventually have to be devalued. So eventually, they ended up actually devaluing the currency. And you know, that ended up being one of the most legendary trades of all time. And Soros ended up making about one to one and a half billion dollars in profit.

• 10:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Absolutely insane, right? To not only find the trade, but also to kind of have the courage to, to act on it and do it in size and conviction, which, which takes, you know, what is a, a pretty good idea, obviously, and makes it a great trade is because of that courage and conviction they have to act. Another example of this is Paul Tudor Jones. In 1987, he essentially predicted the crash of 1987 and was able to position himself to profit very handsomely from it. Tell us that story.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  Good, so Paul Tudor Jones, as we all know, he's a very, very famous trader. Uh, so actually in nineteen eighty-seven, what he found out that was that the way the market was moving was actually very, very similar to what was going on in nineteen twenty-nine. Uh, which was right before the Great Depression. He saw that the correlations between, you know, the way price was moving in nineteen eighty-seven versus that in nineteen twenty-nine was actually, you know, very, very close. And, you know, he did a lot of other kind of data analysis. So he sort of looked at brokerage reports, he looked at sales data and whatnot, and he found out that, you know, it was very similar. Uh, when you look at nineteen twenty-nine, when you look at nineteen eighty-seven, they're, uh, those two, they were extremely similar. And about two weeks before, uh, Black Monday happened in October nineteen eighty-seven,

• 11:46Speaker 02

  uh, he started to aggressively short sell, uh, the market. He started taking this position before anyone, you know, realized that everything was going to go bust. And so the cost is you, is usually set to be portfolio insurance. So basically what portfolio insurance does, it's sort of like a stop-loss. So it says that if the market declines this much, you know, I'm gonna, we sell everything. And so there was, so one week before Black Monday, the market was down about nine percent, and that sort of triggered every single, uh, portfolio insurance model. And so everyone ended up, uh, selling, uh, their stock. And eventually, on the Monday, on Black Monday, uh, the market fell about twenty-two percent or so.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  And on the Friday before Black Monday, after the market closed, Soros actually walked into Stanley Druckenmuller's office. Now, Druckenmuller tells the story to Jack Schwager in the book, The New Market Wizard. So Druckenmuller, who's actually very, very long, so he had a long position. He, uh, he made money if, you know, started, if, uh, the market went up, realized that the market was gonna collapse after seeing Paul Tudor Jones's study. And on Black Monday, actually, the morning, there wasn't much of a move, it was kind of flattish. So he was able to flip his position from net long to net short. So he was able to start, he would, he would make money if, you know, prices started to collapse. And he ended up making a big profit on Black Monday. And meanwhile, you know, George Soros lost his shirt.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Because George Soros was way too big to be able to flip his position as quickly as Stanley Shuckamiller was able to. And Paul Tudor Jones made about a hundred million dollars from the stray. And you can actually read a lot more about the stray in Sebastian Malaby's book, More Money Than God, which is an excellent book about hedge funds. And there's also a documentary about this that tends to surface from time to time. But usually, it's usually taken down immediately. But it's a very exciting documentary. I've watched it a couple of times. I think that's something everyone should watch.

• 13:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's an incredible story, especially when you start to realize that a lot of the legendary macro traders, they essentially were sharing the trades with each other, right? So not only was it information that could be shared, but two was you had to be able to act and be able to act within a certain timeframe and with that conviction again. And so in that situation where George Soros was able to break the pounds, but this time he couldn't switch from from long to short, ends up actually hurting him, which is very interesting. Let's talk about the Kiwi dollar trade. Andy Krieger, tell us that story.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  Yep. So Andy Krieger was a trader at Bankers Trust, which used to be a bank in New York, but then eventually it got bought out by Deutsche Bank. So typically, currency traders would take twenty million, twenty five million, that kind of position. But then Andy Krieger was actually made a position that were 10x that, so about 200, 250 million. And on top of that, Andy Krieger, in general, was a very, very successful trader. And his capital limit was about $700 million. And so the New Zealand dollar was a relatively new currency. And what ended up happening was that the New Zealand dollar rose about 40% against the US dollar from 1986 to 1987. And

• 15:02Speaker 02

  so Andy Krieger analyzed it and figured out that the New Zealand dollar was extremely overvalued, and it was going to go down. And so when he actually shorted it, he shorted it with a massive amount of leverage. So he used about 400 to one leverage. That means that for every dollar he put up, he got to borrow $400 from his broker.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Short on the Q币 dollars was actually much greater than the money supply of New Zealand. So which is, which is pretty insane to think about it because it's greater than the money supply. So you basically shorted more New Zealand dollars and there are New Zealand dollars. And you know, the Finance Minister of New Zealand actually called up Andy Kreiger's boss. It is claimed that he called up Andy Kreiger's boss to say, get the F off our currency, little F-er. And you know, Krueger made a massive profit. He made about 300 million dollars on this trade. And you know, needless to say, you know, he went and worked for George Soros, who's pretty much the greatest currency trader to ever exist. So I think, so I think that's a pretty insane story as well.

• 16:02Anthony Pompliano?

  It, it, it's incredible because it basically was like a naked short to some degree, right? Where they were able to short more than the outstanding circulating currency. And so when you start to see this, it's just understanding the imperfections in the market or the opportunities in the market. And again, courage and conviction to act and, and, and put the position on, do it in size. And while you're risking capital, if you're right, you end up capturing the reward.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  Right. And you know, Stanley Chuck Miller actually makes that point in another interview where he says that, you know, when he went to work for Soros, you know, he thought that he would learn, you know, what drives the euro, what drives the yen, what drives the markets in, you know, Russia. But, you know, but the only thing that he really learned was that, you know, when you know you're right and you're almost hundred percent sure, sure that you're right. Then you know, you should absolutely bet the house on, you know, whatever bet it is. So, you know, for example, Soros was almost 100% sure that the, you know, the Bank of England would have to pull the pound out of the exchange rate mechanism. So he went and pretty much bet the entire house, he bet around 10 billion dollars, which is massive. And that's, and you know, that's sort of the major lesson that Stanley Chuck Miller learned when he was at Soros.

• 17:12Anthony Pompliano?

  For sure. The next story is David Tepper through the global financial crisis and the big banks. Pretty much everyone was fairly concerned about the big banks. Some of them had failed. There was a concern that there was going to be like the nationalization of banks, but David Tepper stepped in and tell us this story.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  Right, so Debbie Tepper in general is sort of a distressed kind of guy, distressed investor. So you know, when companies are distressed, he tends to go and buy their debt and buy their stocks, especially when the chances of recovery are quite great. And so when he saw, so back in 2008 or 09, during the great financial crisis, everyone thought that the banks would be nationalized, just like they were during the Great Depression. But you know, the officials had no, you know, they had no reason to, or no intention to actually nationalize the banks. And the government released a white paper called the Financial Stability Plan. And you know, when Tepper read that, he realized that the banks would have to be saved. And so most people believed the US government wouldn't nationalize the banks, but not Tepper.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  You know, Tepper thought that they would not nationalize the banks. He thought that the banks would eventually bounce back. You know, Tepper was able to buy Citigroup for about 79 cents, Bank of America for about 372 or so. He was able to buy a billion dollars worth of commercial, you know, market backed securities, which had pretty much been the cause of, been the cause of the great financial crisis at a ridiculously cheap price. So he paid nine cents on the dollar for every dollar of actual commercial market backed securities. Now he paid only nine cents for it and he bought a lot of distressed debt as well. So he was able to find companies that were distressed, companies that were, you know, on the verge of bankruptcy, and he bought a lot of their debt.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  And the entire trade made 7 billion dollars for his fund after losing the management. And you know, Tepper personally, he made about 4 billion dollars. And now in my thread, I put that into perspective. So you know, if Tepper actually worked 24 hours a day for 365 days that year, he would make 457,000 dollars every single hour that he works, which is absolutely insane. Because you know, the average American is probably not going to make 457,000 dollars in a year. But he made it, you know, he would make it in a single hour if you put that into perspective. So I think that's another extremely insane trade that was made.

• 19:33Anthony Pompliano?

  It's unreal and David Tepper is no stranger whatsoever to distressed situations and kind of fighting to make sure he drives those profits. Another example or great kind of legendary trade is John Paulson with the credit default swaps. Tell us that story.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  Absolutely. So as you all know that, you know, Michael Lewis has written a very famous book called The Big Short, where he talks about, you know, Steve Weisman, Michael Burry, and Jamie My who also bought credit default swaps. So credit default swaps are basically insurance against the collapse of these mortgage-backed securities. And so basically, if you buy insurance, you know, you pay a small premium, but then, you know, when shit hits the fan, you get paid a massive amount back. So that was sort of what these credit default swaps are. They're basically insurance. And John Paulson realized that the hazy bubble was about to pop,

• 20:30Speaker 02

  and he went ahead and bought a ton of these credit default swaps on some of the worst mortgage-backed securities. And as we know in hindsight, a lot of the things that were actually rated AAA are not actually AAA. You know, a lot of the underlying mortgages in those AAA mortgage-backed securities were actually garbage, you know, actual rubbish. And so when you have something that's AAA, the insurance on it is very cheap because the risk that they go under is very, very low. So John Paulson was able to buy some extremely cheap insurance on these mortgage-backed securities, and he ended up netting about $4 billion for himself personally.

• 21:12Speaker 02

  You know, this is documented in a great book by itself called The Greatest Rate Ever by Gregory Suckerman, which I think, you know, all your listeners should read. I think that was an absolutely insane book.

• 21:23Anthony Pompliano?

  And again, it seems like the same, same thing, you know, same story, which is coercion conviction and doing it in size really kind of benefited here, right?

• 21:32Speaker 02

  Right, exactly. It's sort of like, you know, it's that sort of like the framework for, you know, all these trades. Number one, it's usually, you know, it's very asymmetric and you know, you usually make it in a lot of size. And you know, you end up making a ton of money from it. So, so you know, that's sort of what is common in all these trades.

• 21:52Anthony Pompliano?

  For sure. Let's wrap up with John Arnold and the natural gas trade of 2006.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  So at the time, Amerant Advisors was basically this multi-strategy fund that had taken a lot of these, had taken a lot of positions in natural gas. And so the guy who trades now, who traded natural gas for Amerant, his name is Brian Hunter. And he was sort of on the other side of John Arnold's bet. So if John Arnold was long, you know, Brian Hunter would be short and vice versa. And in general, you know, in general, these two traders pretty much ran the natural gas market back then. So what ended up happening was that John Arnold, so what ended up happening was that in 2006, Brian Hunter made some extremely bad bets.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  And I'm not aware off the top of my head whether he was long or short, but he made some extremely bad bets. And John Arnold was on the other side of this, of these trades at his, at his own hedge fund named Centaurus Fund Management.

• 22:56Speaker 02

  He, he took the other side of these bets and what ended up happening was that Amerant Advisors went under. So they had about $6 billion in management and they were all dedicated to these bets on natural gas. And none of these bets came good and you know, they ended up losing everything. And in 2006, the collapse of Amerant Advisors was the largest hedge fund collapse in history, you know, at that time. So I think that's, that's sort of what makes the story insane. Number one, the scale of the collapse. So it was the largest hedge fund collapse. Number two, you know, there's a, there's pretty much just one guy on the other side who's making a lot of money off of this. So that was just John Arnold who made $6 billion for his fund and he made about $3 billion for himself as well, if I remember correctly. There's a good book on this called Hedge Hogs by Barbara Dreifus, I believe.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  That documents this entire story as well. I think that was a, that's another, that's another interesting and exciting book that, you know, I think everyone should read.

• 23:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 23:52Anthony Pompliano?

  You know a lot about these stories. How do you learn about all of them? Like if somebody is at home and they say, hey, I want to learn about, you know, more of the greatest trades in history, what would you suggest they do?

• 24:03Speaker 02

  So, you know, number one, it's usually, I have sort of an obsession with learning about finance. So, uh, so that's sort of where that comes from. So where the need for me to go and read about the stories comes from. And the second thing is, I think that there's a lot of extremely cool books are written that have been written about, you know, about how these trades work. So for example, I mentioned a couple of them, The Greatest Trade Ever, Hedge Hogs, and one of the other books that I, that's, I know, really worth reading is the Sebastian Malaby book, More Money Than Bad. So it's usually a combination of reading, being extremely curious. And, you know, if you read a lot, you're going to stumble on things that, you know, you know, when you existed, you're gonna, you're gonna end up stumbling on things that you never, uh, you know, that you want to go ahead and research.

• 24:48Speaker 02

  So for example, when I was researching about, you know, how currencies work, I stumbled on the, on sort of breaking the Bank of England. So then I went on to read a lot more about it. So I read pretty much everything I could, you know, all the stories, especially number one, it's really interesting, you know? It's such a large amount of money that's involved. That's one thing that attracts me to it. The other thing, the other thing is, you know, I'm a huge fan of people like Stanley Schrockenmuller, who is one of the greatest investors of all time. So, um, that's sort of where it drives me.

• 25:20Speaker 02

  And, you know, if people want to read more about them, you know, you could just, you could simply Google them, you could end up, you could read several books about them. I mentioned about three books. Uh, you know, Michael Lewis is another, is another amazing author. Uh, and, you know, there was a, there was a comment about Michael Lewis the other day, uh, that if Michael Lewis wrote a book about the history of the stapler, I would read it. And, uh, and I think, you know, that's what, that's what makes Michael Lewis so good. He's a really, really good storyteller. And so The Big Short is an amazing book, Lyra's book is an amazing book. You know, they're both by Michael Lewis. So I think, you know, he's another awesome guy that you should check out.

• 25:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I think that that is very, very true. What's the biggest takeaways that you've had? So you've done probably more reading on finance than most people who are, you know, two, three times your age. What are the takeaways that you could kind of just tell people? Hey, after all this reading, here's, you know, two or three things that is just a repeating pattern in every story.

• 26:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, so the one thing is that pretty much every symbol, you know, successful trader has simply avoided or, you know, investor has simply avoided things that they don't know a lot about. So they're pretty much stuck to their strategy, they're stuck to what they know. They've been very, very, you know, keen on cutting losses. And, you know, when you're wrong, you just get out of the trade as soon as you know that you're wrong. And simply, you know, cutting losses is a key part of, you know, being a successful investor. That's another thing that I've noticed. The third thing is, you know, they all sort of have an obsession with finance. It sort of takes over your life and, you know, that's, that's something that you spend doing, you know, that's, that's something you spend most of your day doing. So for example, Warren Buffett, he said, he spends most of his day reading annual reports.

• 26:59Speaker 02

  And, and I think that's true for people like Soros and Druckenboller and, you know, Paul George Jones and why not, you know, these successful traders, they have an obsession with finance and it sort of takes over their life. They spend, they spend a lot of time doing it, they're very invested in, you know, in learning about finance. And, you know, I think that's sort of, that's sort of the hallmark of what makes these people okay. So they stick to what they know, they cut, they cut their losses quickly and now they have an obsession or a passion for it. So I guess those are the three main takeaways.

• 27:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's, it's absolutely fascinating how the obsession turns into this thing that drives them to just find the trade. It almost feels like in some weird way, it's not the money, right? It's not the profit, that's just the scoreboard. They're really just looking to, to understand what's that structural mispricing and then go and exploit it. And then the, the profit merely just tells them, yes, you were right in some weird way.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  Exactly, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

• 27:59Anthony Pompliano?

  Awesome. Well, listen, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. These stories are amazing. You'll have to come back and tell us more in the future. But where can people find you on the internet or where can they listen to your podcast?

• 28:11Speaker 02

  Absolutely. So I've got a YouTube channel. So if you just search up my name, Srivatsan Prakash, S R I V A T S A N, then space, B R A K A S H. You know, you can find my YouTube on Twitter. You can find me at Elite underscore investor. And then, you know, you can check out my podcast. You could just, you know, type market champions into your search bar and you'll probably find it. So, yeah.

• 28:36Anthony Pompliano?

  The Twitter handle at Elite underscore investor has got to be one of my favorites that I've seen out there. So I don't know why you chose that one, but that's a pretty good one.

• 28:46Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 28:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Awesome. All right. Well, listen, thank you so much for doing this, Srivatsan, and we'll have to do it again in the future.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. It's awesome speaking to you.