359. How to TRULY detach

We can be so fixed on a job, a person, an outcome that we fuse our identity to it – and, crucially, forget that we’re okay without it. In today’s bonus episode, we unpack detachment: why we cling so tightly to people and outcomes, what over-attachment does to our mind and mood, and how to loosen the grip in a way that feels calm, kind, and clear. We explore: • Why we become attached to certain people or outcomes • The impact of becoming overly attached on our behaviours, thoughts and emotions • The Buddhist concept of ‘non-attachment’ • How detaching from the outcome can keep us grounded • The value of the Stoic mindset Listen now! ORDER MY BOOK https://www.psychologyofyour20s.com/copy-of-book Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg https://www.instagram.com/jemmasbeg/?hl=en# Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast https://www.instagram.com/thatpsychologypodcast/?hl=en# For business: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 0:33Jemma Sbeg?

  I've been really trying to prioritize my health in a realistic way this year, and something that has kept me really motivated is my Whoop. I am such a data person, which is why I love Whoop, because I can genuinely see why my body feels differently depending on the day, why I'm running differently, why I'm maybe less focused. Whoop effortlessly tracks my sleep, it tracks my strain, my recovery, my stress, and most importantly, my overall health. And it just gives me all that data and all those patterns so I can make better decisions, which includes knowing when to go easy and knowing when to go hard. New members can try Whoop with a 30-day free trial before committing to a membership. That's join.whoop.com/psychology for your free month of Whoop.

• 1:18Jemma Sbeg?

  Hey, question. Are you an Extra Care member at CVS? Because there is literally no reason not to be. It's super easy to join and members instantly get extra big deals on things you buy most. I mean, this is stuff you're already buying, things like snacks, personal care products, all of it. And after you join, the savings just show up. Deals refresh every two weeks, but they don't last long. Head to your local CVS or open the CVS app, look for "extra big deals", and start saving today.

• 1:51Jemma Sbeg?

  This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know, they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their Everyday Seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on, and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is. Lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com.

• 2:28Jemma Sbeg?

  These days, there are more people than ever telling you how to manage your health. Your social media feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, and so much more. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association breaks it all down. Emmy nominated hosts Trace Dominguez talks to health influencers, real people, and most importantly, doctors, to separate fact from fiction. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to really matters. Listen to Health vs. Hype wherever you get your podcasts.

• 3:11Jemma Sbeg?

  Hello, everybody. I'm Jemma Sbeg and welcome back to the Psychology of Your 20s, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.

• 3:31Jemma Sbeg?

  Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world. It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we, of course, break down the psychology of our 20s. So today, we've got another one of our little bonus episodes. These are like shorter, more bite-sized doses of our usual content, something to like accompany your lunch break or your little morning walk. In these shorter chats, we just mainly aim to tackle certain terms, theories, concepts that you may hear in the self-help or psychology space in a more focused, compact kind of way.

• 4:14Jemma Sbeg?

  And in today's episode, we are going to be looking at this concept of detachment. Specifically, How we can truly detach from an outcome, from a person who is controlling our emotions, from a relationship, a situation, a job application, really anything. Our attachment to these things is deeply emotional. It shows we care a lot, but sometimes our emotional investment can actually cause us to suffer more in imagination than in reality and get too caught up in the what ifs than the what is actually happening. Detachment is the psychological and emotional kind of antidote to this that asks us to

• 4:58Jemma Sbeg?

  perhaps be more stoic, to understand that what we think about something won't always change what will actually happen. And just to let life be something that happens to us naturally, that flows around us, rather than us trying to push through it or force certain things to happen, or struggle against people who aren't going to change their mind, who may not treat us any differently, or situations that maybe aren't going to improve just by us trying to think about them more. It is an incredibly important skill. That being said, it's also quite difficult to learn, so let's talk about it.

• 5:41Jemma Sbeg?

  Firstly, what's the difference between attachment and detachment? It might sound simple, but attachment is, I always think about it as like having a bird in the palm of your hand and holding on to it really tightly with a closed fist, hoping that it will stay. And that not being a comfortable experience for anybody or anything. Detachment is the ability to hold what you want or what you have with an open hand. Sure, the bird may fly away, but that probably means it wasn't meant to be there in the first place, didn't want to be in there in the first place. And a new bird, a better bird, a bird that does want to be there is going to fly and land on your hand. That's kind of the metaphor I always think about.

• 6:24Jemma Sbeg?

  It's basically when you stop trying to bend reality into your preferred shape and you just decide to participate in whatever is actually happening without gripping, without bargaining, without trying to force things into place when they don't fit, detached from a specific outcome, detached from a specific person and their behaviours. You are very much in this mindset of what I can control and what I can't control. And you notice the difference and you appreciate the difference. In the literature on detachment, psychologists sometimes basically describe it as a form of cognitive distancing

• 7:02Jemma Sbeg?

  or emotional distancing, being able to turn down the emotional volume of a situation or the, or your own emotions just enough just to be able to think clearly and just to act in line with your values and your vision. It's not that you are going to numb yourself to any outcome. It's not that you're going to shut down. It's not that you're going to stop caring. It's still about caring. It's just about being able to operate without the outcome or that other person or whatever it is, the event, being your center and being the thing that you obsessively think about. It's basically saying, don't let the things you can't control be the only thing that you focus on.

• 7:48Jemma Sbeg?

  When we're attached, what we're actually attached to is not always the outcome or the person or the situation or whatever it is, it's often what that thing represents and what promises us meaning. You're attached to this idea of getting this job because maybe that will prove to you that you are hardworking, that you are good enough, that you are set up for the future. You are attached to receiving attention from this person, not because you may even like them, but because you think that their attention would give you some very serious sign that you are lovable. Or, you know, if they don't give you attention, well, then that's going to prove that you aren't.

• 8:31Jemma Sbeg?

  We get attached because as humans, our brains crave a feeling of safety and they crave a feeling of, of knowing. And when we have certainty over situations, that is the cheapest shortcut to feeling okay and to feeling safe in life. It's also not something that life has promised us. We're not going to be certain about many, many things. But our brain likes to convince us that if we can think about it a little more, if we can manipulate the situation a little bit more, if we can want it enough. Well, then hopefully we can be in control.

• 9:12Jemma Sbeg?

  And hopefully that will give us a sense of meaning, a sense of predictability, a sense of certainty. And this is where our ego and the idea of self-concept comes into this as well. We don't just want that person, we don't just want that job. We want what it means and what it will say about us. That we are lovable, that we are chosen, that we are competent, that you have a bright future, that life will be happy. And if we don't get the certainty we want, if we are, if we don't get the outcome we want, then none of that is, none of that feels correct. So the goal and the outcome that we get attached to deeply, that is significant to us,

• 9:52Jemma Sbeg?

  is so significant to us because it is fused with self-worth and self-belief. And so it takes on a much deeper level of control and weight than if it didn't mean those things to us. And just to note, attachment isn't inherently bad. It's actually quite a healthy organizing force that can really help us prioritize what and and who matters and helps us allocate our attention and resources towards goals and coordinate our lives and gives us a sense of meaning. The issue really just comes when we are overly attached. And instead of helping us organize our lives and giving life a sense of purpose and importance and meaning and giving us goals, it actually has the opposite effect.

• 10:37Jemma Sbeg?

  Firstly, when we are overly attached to a specific thing, our thoughts actually become a lot more narrow and they become, they begin to race. And it gives us a feeling that is very similar to anxiety or to rumination. It can get really obsessive, right? We all know that our thoughts might become more rigid and selective. And you basically start forming a singular preferred interpretation of events. And the only information that you let in is information that seems relevant or proves what you want to happen. Anything that doesn't do that, that doesn't point directly towards our target gets ignored.

• 11:19Jemma Sbeg?

  Even if it is super important, even if it's something like a significant red flag. In somebody's behaviour, even if it is a thing about that apartment that is actually super inconvenient, something about that job that may actually not be great, because our thoughts are narrow, because they are more rigid and less curious, because we are too attached to a specific outcome. Sometimes we just ignore things that would otherwise definitely make us desire a different outcome. Secondly, our mood definitely becomes attached to a specific outcome. If we feel recognised by that guy, we feel amazing. But if they don't reply to us, we just feel terrible and worthless and low. If we get the job,

• 12:03Jemma Sbeg?

  we feel incredible, we feel purposeful. But if we don't hear back, we throw in the towel altogether. We swear that we're never going to bother trying to get a new job in that industry again. We question all these things about ourselves and essentially it's like the emotional systems in our brain become handcuffed to something that is outside of our control. And when that dips, when that plateaus, when that rises, our emotions are going to follow along with it. And we just feel completely unmoored in that way, because we are no longer, you know, the driver, we are no longer in the driver's seat, we are

• 12:47Jemma Sbeg?

  completely in the passenger seat to whatever these, you know, circumstances choose to bring us. The thing is as well, you know, the more we do care and the more attached we are, which again is normal, the more we do try to push, force, fight, hold tight, the more we try to make a situation work that just isn't going to. And what that does is actually, I often think, reduces the chances of something working out. Sure, this relationship with this person might work out and might go well, but only if you give it breathing room. But in our desire for predictability and control, we try and speed up timelines, we try and

• 13:32Jemma Sbeg?

  I don't know, we just, we become more obsessive and we do things that we know are actually counter to our overall goal. But because we are so attached, it just feels like this attachment has nowhere to go unless we take action on its behalf. And we end up ruining things. We end up putting too much pressure on things. We end up burning out. We end up feeling so exhausted that we withdraw, or that we move on, or that we feel like we can't be around somebody or in a situation, not necessarily even because of what they've done, but because of how we are approaching the situation. You know, I have this theory, it's not so much a psychological theory, it's definitely more of a philosophical, spiritual

• 14:13Jemma Sbeg?

  theory. But I always say, if you are overly attached to something, to a relationship, an outcome, whatever, such that you imagine in detail exactly how things are going to work out, you're already picturing the wedding, you're already picturing the new outfits you're going to wear to your new job. I often think that's actually kind of has like a counteractive effect where it makes it less likely to happen. It's like, in some universe, i.e. in your mind, this situation has already occurred. And so, you know, the universe isn't, or God or whatever, isn't going to repeat that same event, because it doesn't want to, you know, it wants to be creative. If you've already created the situation, it

• 14:54Jemma Sbeg?

  cannot possibly happen again in real time, because, you know, yeah, the universe, the God, whatever it is, like, likes to be cheeky and likes to be, likes to keep us on our toes and likes to give us something different. So actually, the more you think about things and the more you try and imagine, picture, develop this story in your head, the less likely it's going to occur. In fact, probably, it's highly unlikely it's not going to occur the way you think it is, because of this principle. And, you know, there's really no evidence for that, other than my anecdotal evidence. But every time I found that I've clinged, or clung, sorry, I should say, too tightly to something such that I've imagined all these hypotheticals, they have never come true. And that it's always then ended up happening in a way that is completely surprising. And I don't know, maybe that's

• 15:39Jemma Sbeg?

  just the explanation that my brain has kind of gone to, to maybe teach me to stop overthinking it as much. I think as well, just on a broader sense, it just. Overly obsessing about a specific outcome. It basically reduces how open we are to other outcomes and to newness. How open we are to the unexpected, to the beautiful parts of life that really genuinely surprise us. And the acceptance and having space for those things is really what detachment is about. Instead of being rigid, wanting certainty, wanting an outcome that you think is best for yourself. We are more curious. We allow the events around us, the world around us, to deliver the outcome that is probably better.

• 16:23Jemma Sbeg?

  We are more confident in ourselves. We trust ourselves regardless of what happens. And we're just simply more able, like better able to enjoy and witness things in our lives and experiences because we're not obsessing over them or getting attached before they occur, such that we feel their loss much more profoundly. So we can talk about this till the cows come in. What do we actually do to get to a level of healthy detachment so that we can observe, be invested, but not, you know, emotionally tied to this situation so that we can really just have some more freedom in our lives, more peace? We're going to talk about all of that and more after this short break.

• 17:05Speaker 02

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• 17:33Jemma Sbeg?

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• 18:16Jemma Sbeg?

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• 18:57Jemma Sbeg?

  that has kept me really motivated is my Whoop. I am such a data person, which is why I love Whoop, because I can genuinely see why my body feels differently depending on the day, why I'm running differently, why I'm maybe less focused. Whoop effortlessly tracks my sleep, it tracks my strain, my recovery, my stress, and most importantly, my overall health. And it just gives me all that data and all those patterns so I can make better decisions, which includes knowing when to go easy and knowing when to go hard. New members can try Whoop with a 30-day free trial before committing to a membership. That's join.whoop.com/psychology for your free month of Whoop.

• 19:38Jemma Sbeg?

  Who out here shops at CVS? Most of you, right? Well, if you're not signed up for extra care, you need to fix that because when you are, you get extra big deals. These are limited time offers you can find in store or in the app, and it's where being an extra care member pays off. So sign up now. If you're already shopping there, it's a no brainer. If you're not, well, you need to do something about that as well. Signing up couldn't be easier and once you've joined, the exclusive member discounts instantly appear. You don't have to do anything, no coupons, you'll just enjoy savings on the items you buy most. We're talking about savings on essentials like household items. Snacks, health, personal care products, plus travel and seasonal stuff too. All right there in store, couldn't be easier.

• 20:23Jemma Sbeg?

  Deals refresh every two weeks, so there's always something new, but they don't last long. Extra big deals with extra care. Instant savings made simple. Head to your local CVS or open the CVS app, look for extra big deals and start saving today. This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over fourteen years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is.

• 21:06Jemma Sbeg?

  Lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favourite gym clothing at gymshark.com.

• 21:18Jemma Sbeg?

  So a lot of key principles around the art of detachment actually are heavily influenced by eastern philosophy, particularly by Buddhist and Daoist principles of non-attachment. Non-attachment is this attitude of flexibility and balance towards life experiences where we can interact with our thoughts, our feelings and events without clinging so desperately to desired positive outcomes or fearing negative ones. What this concept is based on is this idea that the nature of our experiences and our mental representations are actually constructed, they're not permanent, so they can't hurt us unless we let them because we can always just allow them to move on and we can always just let them go.

• 22:03Jemma Sbeg?

  I know that sounds very silly and like a very simple explanation, but people for thousands and thousands of years have been adopting this way of approaching life. The simplest way to maybe get into this mindset, the simplest reset is before you try to fix anything, just giving yourself literal physical space to see things clearly. The fastest way is by, you know, physically distancing yourself, getting out of a room, getting out of a conversation, getting out into the world, so your attention isn't trapped into this tiny loop of whatever it is you're obsessing over. You need to be in a different environment or situation from the one that is causing you stress.

• 22:45Jemma Sbeg?

  When we feel overly attached to something, I really just think we can't see the woods from the trees. We've become so overly focused on specific, tiny, miniscule details that we lose the perspective on the rest of our lives. We lose the ability to understand the larger overall situation. We lose the ability to, you know, realise that other people are alive at the same time as us and to just put our problems into perspective. This version of detachment is just the simplest form. Go outside, move your body, do some kind of intense exercise, let your senses reset, put time and space between the stimulus and your response. Also, a part of this is just to start really paying attention to the ordinary world.

• 23:29Jemma Sbeg?

  The sounds, temperature, people walking their dogs, look at other people just living their lives. And that will allow you to realise that this might feel incredibly serious and life-defying for you, but it doesn't take up the whole universe and one day it won't be at your epicentre anymore as well. We often feel like if we focus on the issue or the goal just a little bit longer, if we work just a little bit harder, if we analyse their response just once more, you know, we will have control, we will be able to, you know, problem solve this situation. But this never happens. This is a classic thought spiral.

• 24:10Jemma Sbeg?

  There are limitless things and ways to see this situation, limitless things to think about, limitless possibilities.

• 24:18Jemma Sbeg?

  You thinking about them more is just adding fuel to the fire and just further convincing your brain and your mind that one more second to think about it, one more second of rumination, one more moment to attach even further is somehow going to get you an answer or is somehow going to give you certainty. By gaining literal distance, you are widening your frame of reference so that you are allowed to choose how to respond rather than just having to react. And you are able to really identify this problem or this situation for what it actually is rather than what your mind is making it out to be. So the next move is

• 24:59Jemma Sbeg?

  to refill yourself so that your worth isn't hanging on one reply, one meeting, one person, one thing going right. As we saw earlier, one of the key aspects of being overly attached to something or someone is that our sense of self-worth often begins to be contingent on that thing happening. So it's really crucial that we start to re-center this back onto ourselves, re-anchor ourselves ourselves back into us. Just really practice the opposite of humility and the opposite of being attached or devoted to something or someone else. Stroke your own ego. Celebrate how freaking amazing you are. Reinforce that you will be fine without

• 25:43Jemma Sbeg?

  this thing. For the next day or two, flood your schedule with proof that you exist well beyond this goal or this person or whatever it is you have in mind. Go out for dinner. Create something by yourself, like a really hot new outfit, get a haircut. Do anything that makes you feel novel, makes you feel confident, makes you feel in your energy, in your power. Make as many plans as possible that don't include the person, the thing, the event, the situation, the place that you're attaching to. If you're dating, make sure you're also dating your friends, exploring your city, having evening plans, building out the worlds beyond this thing that has taken your focus. Making sure that there

• 26:27Jemma Sbeg?

  are all these other things that you're excited by and investigating and. Curious and you know, just motivated to see so that your whole world isn't just whatever it is you're obsessing over. Detaching, you know, it isn't about not caring. It's about ensuring that your world and your life is big enough that no singular singular thing could come in and suffocate everything else out. You can be engaged in the parts of your life or in the people in your life that you do feel attached to, but you just can't be fused. You just can't have an emotional over reliance on something going right or somebody liking

• 27:12Jemma Sbeg?

  you or a situation working in your favor to determine whether you're going to be happy for that day. The next thing or the next tool is to really ask yourself, does this fit? Or am I sanding the edges of myself or of my life to make it fit? Now, I think we have a little bit of a gut reaction when I, when I mention this or when I talk about this. When something fits, you know that it fits. Like there is ease there. It's like the perfect pair of jeans. Like imagine your most perfect comfortable pair of jeans. It's no friction, no tension, they're always going to be amazing. When you try on a bad pair of jeans, it's pretty noticeable and you can convince yourself

• 27:55Jemma Sbeg?

  that you'll change for the jeans, that the jeans will stretch, whatever, they never do. And you end up throwing them out, you end up donating them, you end up having to sell them anyways. Like, you know, and you know about certain relationships, you know about certain situations as well. When something fits, plans get made, replies don't need decoding. Your life doesn't necessarily feel like you're spinning plates just to stay afloat. You feel steady without constantly needing to be fixing things or tending to the situation, feeling burnt out, feeling awfully terribly stressed. You know, when it isn't a fit, like you do feel that there's lots of persuading, lots of justifying, lots of what if we just try this or this or this kind of energy?

• 28:40Jemma Sbeg?

  And it's a very desperate feeling, which we don't like, we don't like feeling that. To give you another metaphor, like think of it as like a jigsaw piece. The wrong decision, something that we're overly attached to that isn't right, is like trying to force the wrong jigsaw puzzle piece into.

• 28:58Jemma Sbeg?

  A picture that's already been made. You have one piece left. And you're so tired, you're so exhausted. You think that this last piece is gonna be, this last couple of pieces is gonna be right. And it just, it's not working. You press harder, you cut off a corner. And you can just visually see it doesn't fit. And you will always know that it's wrong. And the whole picture becomes warped around it. It just doesn't look okay. And I think relationships and goals act in the same way. If it only fits when you're shrinking, over explaining, carrying eighty percent of the load, you're forcing it. And there is another puzzle piece somewhere in that box.

• 29:39Jemma Sbeg?

  There is another puzzle piece that maybe somebody else needs to find and give to you that will fit better and you just have to wait. And I know that can be frustrating advice, but I can think of all these times where I just released the need to know and I released the need for a specific outcome. And each time I was deeply rewarded and it was much, much better than what I initially wanted. Two great examples of this are like my, the last place that I lived, like the first place I ever lived alone, this like my beautiful little dingy one bedroom house. That house was perfect for me. And before that house, I'd actually applied for another apartment and it was like the first or second one that I'd seen.

• 30:20Jemma Sbeg?

  And I just got myself convinced that this was the right one and I was so anxious and stressed about it. And the thing was is that that apartment would have been terrible to live in. It was like on the bottom floor. There was no light. There was no public transport. There was no parking, like. But my mind had just convinced me, like, that's the one. And I was clinging on to it, clinging on to it. And when I didn't get it, it was actually quite relieving. And I'm glad I didn't because then I got the thing that was better for me. It's the same with my last corporate job. I applied. I didn't hear anything for months. I detached. I basically told everyone like, oh, I'm not gonna get it. Uh, I didn't get it. Like, I basically gave everybody else, like I told them what the outcome was without knowing.

• 31:03Jemma Sbeg?

  And like, I genuinely think like a week later, I got like a call about that job. And you know, these are just stories. Detaching doesn't necessarily increase the chance of an outcome happening. But I think it just lets you suffer less, enjoy life more, and have a more positive, open outlook to other things that are coming your way. My last tip is to just really try and adopt this stoic mentality we've been discussing throughout this episode. Focus as much as you can, list in your notes app, in your journal as much as you can, what you can control and what you cannot. That is detachment in the most grounded sense, recognizing that life is not going to arrange itself around your preferences and knowing ahead of time that you're going to be okay

• 31:48Jemma Sbeg?

  with that anyways. You can want something and you can still refuse to make your well-being hostage to it. Bad things might happen, plans might change, you might not get what you really desired. You trust yourself enough to know that you're going to be okay. And we talk about self-trust so much on this podcast, but it is the opposite of anxiety, it is the opposite of anxious attachment, it is the opposite of panic, it's the opposite of rumination is just, I trust myself. I know that, yes, these things could happen, yes, things could not work out, I'll still be all right, I will still be able to be tested and come through this.

• 32:31Jemma Sbeg?

  And I think that that really is like the most positive way to think about anything that is out of your control is like, yeah, try me, like, I'm, I'm ready. My self-trust in myself is deep, I'm unshakable based on whatever is going on around me. And just think about how different your day feels when you have that mentality. The thing is, you're still going to show up, you're still going to ask what you want, you're still going to prepare, you're still going to have an open heart. Nothing about the effort you put in changes, but the meaning you assign to the result softens. A yes becomes an opportunity and no is just information that you use for next time. Neither is a measure of your worth, which is so important.

• 33:15Jemma Sbeg?

  It's just a refusal to confuse your preferences and a certain outcome with, you know, happiness and with necessity, like you're going to be okay no matter what. I know this episode has been more of a pep talk than maybe like specific tips, but I really do feel like this is an energy, this is a, a real mindset that you float into and once you're in. You really understand how much more peace comes with it. And it takes time. I'm definitely not the best at it. But when I do actively try and force myself to just consider other outcomes, to just really relax into whatever's going to happen will happen, whatever will be will be.

• 34:00Jemma Sbeg?

  I genuinely feel the tension shift out of my body. And I find my approach to things changes and people notice that and they respond back to me in a way that is honestly surprisingly more positive. So I hope that this is convincing. I hope this episode was helpful. I hope you can apply it in your own life, whether it is with a situationship, a job, an apartment, a friend, just the life in general. Yeah, I hope it goes, I hope it goes far for you. I want to thank our research assistant, Libby Colbert, for her help on this special bonus episode. Make sure that you are following us on Instagram at That Psychology Podcast. Our December guest month starts in a couple of days and we have some amazing guests for you guys.

• 34:42Jemma Sbeg?

  So I'd love for you to be, I'd love for you to know when their episodes air. Make sure you're also subscribed, following, whatever it is, whatever app you're listening on to the podcast as well, so that you also get those notifications. And leave a comment in the description if you have made it this far. What are you trying to detach from right now? What is this episode hopefully helping you move on from, tread more lightly with? I'd love to hear it, but until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself. We will talk very, very soon.

• 35:18Jemma Sbeg?

  I've been approaching my health really differently this year. I used to be really focused on maximizing and doing more. And now I'm just realizing that if I listen to what my body needs, I perform way better. And that's why I am obsessed with my whoop. Truly, you guys, you know I'm such a data and information-driven person. And I love opening my Whoop app and seeing how my sleep, my stress, my strain is correlating with my mood, with my running performance, with how I'm just feeling day to day. I'm not an elite athlete by any means, but I do really benefit. And I also just really enjoy knowing more about my body. And Whoop also gives me these actionable, personalised insights that have made me more

• 36:03Jemma Sbeg?

  intentional and meant that I make smarter decisions day to day about what I need, rather than just putting my foot on the gas and just going, going, going, going. New members can try Whoop with a 30-day free trial before committing to a membership. That's join.whoop.com/psychology for your free month of Whoop. This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know, they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on, and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is.

• 36:48Jemma Sbeg?

  Lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favourite gym clothing at gymshark.com.

• 37:00Jemma Sbeg?

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• 37:45Jemma Sbeg?

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