Tucker on Macklemore’s Cancellation and the So-Called “Conservatives” Championing Censorship

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:29Tucker Carlson?

  Last Friday was the year anniversary of Charlie Kirk's murder, and the internet was flooded with remembrance of Charlie. And unfortunately, even more so, all kinds of predatory people trying to use the memory of a fallen man for their own political or financial purposes. That's kind of always the case. We sat it out because that was depressing to see. But you did see people who knew him genuinely well and liked him and weren't trying to profit from his death raise the question, how do we honor his memory? And that is a completely fair question. But it begins with a more fundamental question, which was, what was his life about? If you were to remember Charlie Kirk, what are the first qualities of his that come to mind? Of course, the personal qualities,

• 1:12Tucker Carlson?

  enthusiasm, and decency, and energy, and intelligence. But his beliefs? Well, as someone who knew Charlie well, I would sum them up this way. He believed all kinds of things. But the main thing he believed was Christianity. He was a sincerely religious man. He was a follower of Jesus. And politically, he believed a lot of things as well. Of course, he spent a life talking about them. But above all, he believed in free speech, the right of human beings to say what they think, to share their deepest beliefs. And those two are directly related. Charlie Kirk believed in free speech because he believed in God. And because he believed in God,

• 1:56Tucker Carlson?

  he believed that each person was created by God with a distinct soul. God does not create communities. God creates individuals. And because they are individuals, sovereign individuals created in the likeness of the Creator, each one has an inherent right to say what he thinks, to his own conscience, to make up his own mind, and to express his conclusions. So that's where the belief in free speech comes from. That's reflected, by the way, in the founding documents of the United States. These are inherent rights. They're not given to us by the state. We are born with them. And the purpose of the state is to protect them. And Charlie Kirk was an eloquent defender of this idea and a great explainer of this idea,

• 2:41Tucker Carlson?

  not just eloquent and good at it, but really one of the very few left. There are not a lot of people explaining why free speech is important and what it is. But Charlie Kirk spent, really, the entirety of his public life doing that, up until the day he was murdered. We could have picked a lot of clips to show you on the question of Charlie Kirk and free speech, but we just grabbed one, and it's as good as any. Here's Charlie Kirk, I think, last year, but it could have been any year, explaining what free speech is and why he defends it. Watch.

• 3:14Speaker 02

  I was wondering if you could talk about where you draw the line with free speech, hate speech, and slander?

• 3:20Speaker 03

  It's a terrific question. My position is that even hate speech should be completely and totally allowed in our country. The most disgusting speech should absolutely be protected. And it's not a viewpoint that is held by the left. The ACLU used to hold this viewpoint. The American Civil Liberties Union, they sued so that legitimate Nazis could march through downtown Skokie. You remember this? Back in the 80s and 90s? Now, why would the ACLU do this? Because they said, as soon as you use the word hate, that is a very subjective term. Because then, all of a sudden, it is in the eyes or it is in the implementation of whomever has the power.

• 4:05Speaker 03

  So here's my belief: the more speech, the better.

• 4:08Tucker Carlson?

  Well, exactly. So not only is that answer good, the question actually reveals a lot, too. So the question was, what's your view of free speech, hate speech, and slander? And Charlie didn't explain the difference between those three categories, but it's worth just pausing for a moment. So there's free speech, which, as described, is inherent to every person. You have an inherent right. You were born with this right. You will die with this right, whether or not it's abridged, it still exists, to say what you think, to express your conscience out loud. There is a category called hate speech, which, as Charlie just said, effectively means speech that people in charge hate. And there's a third category called slander, and that's a legal category. What's the difference between hate speech

• 4:52Tucker Carlson?

  or ugly speech, speech I don't want to hear, and slander? Well, it's worth saying the difference is slander is, by definition, untrue. That is, the legal definition of slander is factually incorrect. You are lying. You're lying about somebody or something. Free speech, and even this category called hate speech, those are true things. And therefore, they cannot be abridged, ever. Why? Because you have to have the right to tell the truth. And any society that doesn't protect that right collapses and is also, of course, morally stained. On what grounds are you suppressing something that's true? So slander is, by definition, a lie,

• 5:37Tucker Carlson?

  but protected speech is true, or it's believed by the person who utters it to be true. And that's a meaningful distinction as well. I'm not lying. Of course, I've been wrong about a ton of things and will be again. But this is my sincere belief. I mean it. And that includes opinions, but also claims. I believe this is true. And so if you are ruling over people, which is to say, human beings, if you consider the people you have care over or power over to be human beings, then by definition, you can never prevent their right to say what they think is true, of course. Because by definition, if you do that, you are not treating them as human beings because you don't consider them human beings. That's how you treat a slave.

• 6:22Tucker Carlson?

  You don't have to listen to what a slave says because he's not a human being. So in the very same way, you can tell your dogs to stop barking. You can tell a slave to shut up because he doesn't have that right because he's not fully human. So anybody in charge who tells you you're not allowed to say something that you believe is true is not treating you as a human being. He's treating you as a slave. That's how he sees you. And you should know that. Because underneath the impulse to censor other people, and it's always dressed up as something else, concern, protection, but what really underlies it, of course, is malice and contempt. I hate you. I don't consider you fully human. Therefore, I'm not going to allow you to speak.

• 7:06Tucker Carlson?

  That is unmistakably the message of every attempt to censor speech. And as Charlie Kirk said pretty well in the clip we just showed you, it is always employed by the people in charge on their own behalf. In other words, censorship is the process of the people in charge telling you you're not allowed to criticize them. And of course, they're clever enough, almost never to say that, though increasingly, they are saying that. But in general, they don't. And so they dress it up, and they say, well, there's some group that's somehow powerless, and you can't criticize them because they don't have power, and your criticism of them is cruelty, and there's a power imbalance, and you're punching down,

• 7:49Tucker Carlson?

  and we're not going to allow that on their behalf. Well, whether or not that's actually true, and we could debate it, the one thing you can be certain of is the group they claim to be protecting is just a proxy for them. It's just a proxy for them. Always, attempts at censorship are an attempt to protect the people in charge from criticism. And as famously been noted, if you want to know who is in charge, ask yourself who you're not allowed to criticize. That's just a fact. That's not a slur or a slander. That is a fact. Because, of course, you would never affect censorship except in defense of your own interests. And that is 100% of the time what happens.

• 8:33Tucker Carlson?

  Censorship is used to protect the powerful from criticism, to gird and protect their power. Of course, there's no other reason for it. And because the people in charge are usually, in every age, no matter who they are, fairly clever and ruthless, that's how they got there, they will almost always find some fairly sophisticated way to hide that fact. And once again, they will tell you that your criticism of their behavior is somehow cruelty or out of bounds. But no, what it really is is a threat to their power, of course. And so Charlie Kirk's prescription is the only prescription. And he said this repeatedly. If you don't like speech you hear,

• 9:17Tucker Carlson?

  there is only one way. There are not a myriad ways. There's one way to combat that, and it's with more speech. Tell me how I'm wrong. And in fact, he spent the last years of his life touring the country, effectively asking crowds that. Tell me how I'm wrong. Ask me anything. I'll defend any of my positions, and I'll do so openly, at length, in public. And if he died for anything, it's that. In fact, he died doing that. And so if you wanted to honor his memory, of course, you would try to keep that dying tradition alive. No one seems to be doing that. But what you wouldn't do, under any circumstances, is do the thing that he devoted his life to fighting, which is shutting down speech you don't like with threats or censorship

• 10:02Tucker Carlson?

  or even with back-of-the-hand dismissals and name-calling. No. You would pause and take seriously the criticism, even if you think it's illegitimate, aimed at you or your beliefs, and explain why it's wrong and offer a counter-vision of what you think is right. This was what the right used to refer to famously as the marketplace of ideas. Because the idea was that the market itself was self-correcting. That was the butlers. There was an invisible hand in charge of the market. And it would find natural equilibrium if you just backed off and allowed that to happen. So if two people had opposing views, they would debate those views in public. And then the people watching could decide which was valid on the basis of the strength of the arguments and the facts marshaled.

• 10:47Tucker Carlson?

  That was the tradition of debate. In fact, that was the core of the Western tradition of discourse. Going all the way back to Athens. And that's what Charlie Kirk was upholding when he was murdered. And what's interesting is that the last presidential election, the 2024 election, though very few people said this out loud, really was a referendum in part on this because it was a reaction against what we now refer to as woke-ism or cancel culture. Well, what are those things? Well, they're really two things. They're identity politics, the idea that on the basis of your bloodline, how you look, qualities you were born with, your genes, you are subject to different rules than other people.

• 11:30Tucker Carlson?

  Certain groups get treated differently because of the nature of those groups. We are no longer equal in our citizenship. Some groups are treated differently, usually better, but sometimes worse. And because that is true, because certain groups get special rights, certain groups are the only people who can use certain words, for example, literally. Because of that, we have to constrain the speech of everybody else. We need censorship in order to protect those groups. So to sort of move beyond the details of this or that specific controversy, that's

• 12:09Tucker Carlson?

  a pretty accurate description of what woke-ism and cancel culture were and are. And the truth is, most people find it tiresome, if not infuriating and immoral, to live in a country governed by rules like that, which are constantly changing, never fully explained to anybody, backed with, by no principles whatsoever, other than the interest of the people in charge. And kind of no one likes that. Who likes that? In fact, it is so universally disliked, that standard or shifting standard, whatever suits the people in charge, that even Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Congresswoman from Brooklyn, who hopes to run for president in this upcoming cycle, was of course, a great and famous practitioner

• 12:54Tucker Carlson?

  of identity politics and woke-ism, got elected to Congress on it, in fact. She was out there the other day, kind of mildly denouncing it, saying, well, that was kind of silly, in the same way that people who screamed at you for not taking the COVID vax are now willing to say, yeah, we kind of went a little overboard, a little overboard, got a little crazy, caught up in the moment. And that's their way of acknowledging that their past behavior was reprehensible to some extent, but also their way of avoiding any penalty for what they did by half admitting that what they did is wrong. And they do this because they don't really have an option. I mean, nobody would defend the federal government's response to COVID at this point, and nobody,

• 13:38Tucker Carlson?

  no sane person, would defend woke-ism circa 2022 at this point, because it's just so obviously awful and absurd and childish and cruel, and it hurt a lot of people. So the point is, if we're at a place where even Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is admitting that woke-ism is pretty stupid at best, I think we can say conclusively that everybody's against it. The problem, however, is that not everybody is against it. And this gets to the question of why it exists in the first place. It doesn't exist because it's a remedy to some obvious injustice, because there was just so much racism in America, so much antisemitism in America, that someone had to act before people got hurt. That's just not true.

• 14:23Tucker Carlson?

  There, of course, is racism and antisemitism and all, you know, all kinds of bad attitudes and hatreds and all of that. But that's not what these movements are about. Every single one of them is an effort by the people in charge to protect their own power, obviously. And that's just always true, no matter who's in charge. And so every group that's in charge faces the temptation to dive headfirst into identity politics, which by the way, has the ancillary effect of dividing the country to the point where you can dominate the country, fight amongst yourselves, or we sell you meme coins, or invade Iran, or whatever. So there's that, but it's also just kind of a classic move employed by the powerful against everybody else.

• 15:06Tucker Carlson?

  And so Charlie Kirk understood this. He understood that when he criticized woke-ism, or attacks on speech, or identity politics, he wasn't simply speaking to the people who were then in charge, and we checked that clip you saw was from 2021, during the early Biden administration, Democrats were in charge. He wasn't just criticizing them because he knew that in his own party, which was the Republican Party, there were people who, if they ever got power, would immediately embrace exactly the same worldview and employ exactly the same tactics against the entire country. He knew those people existed because even then, they existed. And now, of course, they dominate completely the Republican Party.

• 15:51Tucker Carlson?

  And we could spend hours going through the irony and pulling the clips of Republicans denouncing cancel culture, and then a year later, appearing on Fox News to champion cancel culture, literally the cancellation of people whose opinions they don't like. But we're not going to do that because it's just too easy and too depressing. But instead, we just want to show you an example of what Charlie Kirk feared. And we're not guessing about this. Lots of people jump up and down about the legacy of Charlie Kirk and trying to grab it for the room, but we are totally confident when we say that Charlie Kirk then, and were he still with us now, would oppose what you're about to see. So this is a Republican congressman from New York called Mike Lawler, and he's explaining

• 16:35Tucker Carlson?

  his views on free speech. Watch.

• 16:38Speaker 04

  We have seen a rapid rise in antisemitism on these college campuses, and we need to crack down on it. This is not a free speech issue. This is hate speech. Chanting from the river to the sea was not aspirational. It was absolutely vile and intended to undermine Israel and frankly, call for its extermination. And that cannot be tolerated anywhere in this country.

• 17:05Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, it cannot be tolerated. It's not free speech to have that opinion. It's hate speech. It absolutely can't be tolerated. Now, that man, Mike Lawler, who again, is a Republican member of Congress, not one of the brighter ones, but still apparently a member in good standing of the Republican Party, serving in the House of Representatives, a little over a year after that, sponsored legislation with his Democratic colleague, Josh Gottheimer, to ban criticisms of the government of Israel, to encode in federal law, the IHRA definition of antisemitism, which is, well, seven out of 11 criteria are criticisms of the state of Israel, the government of Israel and its behavior, would be classified under federal law, antisemitism,

• 17:50Tucker Carlson?

  and therefore a hate crime. It would be illegal, for example, under the definition that he tried to encode in federal law, to describe what the Israelis are doing in Gaza as a genocide. But what if it is a genocide? What if it meets every definition of genocide? What if murdering 20,000 children could be proven, which it already has been? Would it be okay to say that? No. Not under that law, which thankfully did not pass, but it will someday if this trajectory continues. So here you have a Republican who no doubt would describe himself as a conservative, a constitutional conservative, trying to ban criticism of a foreign country, said it cannot be tolerated.

• 18:34Tucker Carlson?

  And what's interesting is why? So this is not a blanket ban that Mike Lawler is trying to get into federal law, where you can't criticize foreign countries. There are plenty of foreign countries Mike Lawler would like you to criticize. In fact, there are countries Mike Lawler's destruction has called for himself, Russia, for example, or Iran, countries that his donors don't like. So what you're watching here, once again, is the most powerful people in the society, Mike Lawler's donors, of course, he'll repeat whatever they ask him to repeat, trying to encode their preferences and their advantages in our legal code. In other words, you take this 250-year-old country, and you take the machinery of the

• 19:18Tucker Carlson?

  country, and you use it to your own benefit, to protect you and to make you richer. That's exactly what you're seeing here. There's no principle at all involved in this. Mike Lawler is saying it should not be allowed to criticize Israel, but you can criticize Russia. Again, why? Well, because Mike Lawler's donors love Israel and they hate Russia. Therefore, you can criticize the country they hate, but you're not allowed to criticize the country they love. Okay. So that's just like a total collapse of the rule of law, of decency, and of the thing that you really have to have in order to have a real country, which is a love of the truth.

• 19:59Tucker Carlson?

  What's true, what's objectively true, provably true, has to be, has to remain at the center of the project, has to remain at the center of your legal code. You can't convict people of a crime unless you can prove that they did it. You have to know the truth before you can punish someone.

• 20:17Tucker Carlson?

  Therefore, if somebody says something true, you have to allow them to say it, period, whether you like it or not. If someone walks up to you and says, "You've gained 30 pounds," and you have, that might be a rude thing to say. You might hate to hear it, but you cannot punish someone for telling the truth, even if it stings. But they're trying. They're trying, and by "they" we mean everybody in charge, and at this point, that means Republicans. But of course, it's hard to get censorship through the Congress, because we do have this thing called the Bill of Rights, and the first right enumerated

• 20:59Tucker Carlson?

  in it, the very first, is the right to say what you think is true. The First Amendment protects your right to say what you think is true, and prevents the government from constraining that right in any way. And this has been debated for 200 years, and so we know what the parameters are, and they're very, very wide. So it's gonna be pretty hard for any sitting member of Congress to vote for a Mike Lawler bill, so they have to find another way to prevent you from telling obvious truths that they find inconvenient, or that their donors don't care for. So how are they gonna do that? Well, through threats of violence, of course. It always comes to that. Through threats of violence, through intimidation, through making you afraid to say what you think is true.

• 21:42Tucker Carlson?

  And so it's probably not surprising that the clip we're about to show you in just a moment comes from Nikki Haley. She's the former governor of South Carolina, and has some appealing qualities, for sure. Not everything about Nikki Haley is bad, but one thing about Nikki Haley is notable, which is her very high tolerance for violence. So Nikki Haley was one of the very few Republican politicians who, in the opening hours of the George Floyd riots, when the city of Minneapolis was on fire and a police station was burning to the ground, cars were flipped over, people were being shot to death, women were being raped, clearly, things were getting out of control. This was mob violence, which is the scariest thing, and anyone who's ever seen it firsthand can confirm that.

• 22:24Tucker Carlson?

  As she watched that on television, Nikki Haley sent out a tweet saying, in effect, "You go, mobs. America needs this. The cleansing fire of rioting to burn the racism from our souls." We're dressing it up in a more poetic way, but you can pull up the tweet, because it's still on the internet. Nikki Haley saw the destruction of an American city by violence and approved of it. So someone like that, who is willing to tolerate the killing of people who did nothing wrong for the larger good of purging racism from the American soul, probably doesn't have a very difficult time saying something like this.

• 23:09Tucker Carlson?

  Watch.

• 23:10Speaker 05

  When I get into office, the first thing we have to do, social media accounts, social media companies, they have to show America their algorithms. Let us see why they're pushing what they're pushing. The second thing is, every person on social media should be verified by their name. That's, first of all, it's a national security threat. When you do that, all of a sudden, people have to stand by what they say, and it gets rid of the Russian bots, the Iranian bots, and the Chinese bots. And then you're gonna get some civility, when people know their name is next to what they say?

• 23:41Tucker Carlson?

  It's a national security threat that you have opinions that Nikki Haley's donors don't like. Because the problem is Russian bots, or Iranian bots, North Korean bots, bots her donors don't like. The problem is not bots, of course. Nikki Haley's totally in favor of bots, if they're, say, Israeli bots, which dominate social media at the moment. Haven't heard of any complaints from Nikki Haley about that. That's not a national security threat. The national security threat is that you might express something true, and we can't find you to hold you accountable for that. So this kind of thinking can get you to, I don't know, North Korea, pretty quick. In fact, probably unlikely that North Korean politicians have the balls to say something that open in public.

• 24:24Tucker Carlson?

  Because if you have no right to express your view anonymously online, why do you have a right to turn to your wife in bed with the shades closed and say something naughty about Israel? That could be a national security threat, too. Anytime people say something out loud that Nikki Haley doesn't like, it's a national security threat, and we have to find out who's saying it. So as a practical matter, why would it be so important for Nikki Haley to strip the shield of anonymity from people on the internet? Why do we have to know who you are if you criticize Israel? That's an interesting question. And the deeper question is, why would people fear saying what they think about Israel to the point where they wouldn't say it under their own name?

• 25:08Tucker Carlson?

  That's a question worth asking, too. Why are people so intimidated by Nikki Haley's donors, that they don't want to express their views openly? Don't you want to live in a country where people just say what they think, where they're not afraid? Or would you rather live in a country where people cower before the threats of figures like Nikki Haley and her national security concerns, and they just won't say what they think, because they know they could be hurt for doing it? Well, Nikki Haley clearly prefers the latter. But by stripping the anonymity away from people online, it would allow, I don't know,

• 25:46Tucker Carlson?

  some organized nonprofit group to hunt down anyone they find online expressing unapproved thoughts about Israel, and hurt them, really hurt them. So this clip is from the woman, who changed her name, by the way, speaking of anonymity. She had some kind of Eastern European name now. She has a kind of strange one-syllable last name. Anyway, not using her real name. In any case, here is the woman who runs a group called Stop Anti-Semitism, which is a digital vigilante group, and that's not an overstatement, as you're about to see, but she's describing what her group does to people who criticize the Israeli government. Watch this.

• 26:27Speaker 06

  We have featured more than 1,000 antisemites on our platforms. 1,000. Not theorized about them, not quietly documented them, featured them publicly, clearly, and with evidence. The results speak for themselves. Approximately 400 of these Jew haters have faced real consequences, including firings, suspensions, and expulsions. If you target Jewish students, your actions will not disappear into the darkness. We will shine a light on you, that thanks to Google and SEO, will follow you for the rest of your life.

• 27:09Speaker 06

  When you look for a job, when you look for a spouse, when you look for a nanny, when you look for anything, our work will always be documented, again, thanks to Google and SEO.

• 27:19Tucker Carlson?

  Huh. When you look for a job, when you look for a spouse? Really? So what are we talking about here? When she says, "When you target Jewish students, when you hate Jews." Well, of course, anyone who makes physical threats against anybody, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, doesn't matter, that person has committed a crime, and we have, well, layers of law enforcement agencies to deal with that, and they do, and they should. But that's not what she's talking about. She's talking about the IHRA, International Holocaust Remembrance Association, definition of antisemitism.

• 27:59Tucker Carlson?

  And as noted, there are 11 examples of antisemitism, and seven are criticism of the Israeli government, which, to remind you, is a foreign government. It's not the US government. By the way, criticism, including intemperate criticism of the US government, is always and everywhere allowed, and in fact, encouraged, in our schools by our government officials. You can accuse the US government, our government, the one that your ancestors died for, in any way that you like. You can accuse them of sending crack into black neighborhoods, and by the way, maybe they did, who knows? We don't really know, but we know that it's perfectly fine to speculate about that. We know that it's hate to suggest the Israeli government might have been involved in the assassination of our president, John F. Kennedy, in 1963, though there's evidence they were.

• 28:43Tucker Carlson?

  But it's totally within bounds to suggest our CIA was also involved. That's totally fine, and it looks like they were involved, by the way, in that assassination, and that's fine, and there's no penalty for acknowledging that. But to suggest that they might have worked in concert with the Israeli government, well, that will open you up to online vigilanteism like that, where you can't have a job, you can't have a spouse. Can you even live here? Hard to know. So when Nikki Haley calls for stripping the shield of anonymity from people who dare to criticize her donors' favorite country, the reason she's doing it is so the woman you just saw on the screen can bat cleanup, and round up the people foolish enough to

• 29:28Tucker Carlson?

  say what they really think, and hurt them, not just in the short or medium term, but for life. No spouse for you, no job for you, maybe you starve to death. That's okay, because you're a hater. And of course, the great overarching irony of all of this is, who's the hater? So if you go online and say, "I think what the Israeli government is doing to children in Gaza is immoral, because I'm not for killing children," you get screamed at and called a hater by someone who then tells you you can never get married or have a job again. Who's the hater, exactly? Of course. But the problem is, because no one in authority has pushed back against any of this, and

• 30:08Tucker Carlson?

  because the temperature has risen to a point that sincerely is dangerous, it's accelerated. And so there's no doubt, trying to be charitable about it, that the woman you just saw from Stop Anti-Semitism believes that she's doing a virtuous thing. She believes she is saving Jewish people from Nazis. Now, of course, her definition is deranged. Most people who are against killing children are also anti-Nazi by definition, of course. Violence against innocents was one of the signature crimes of the Nazi regime. That's why we're against the Nazis in the first place. We're not mad about their economic policy. Most of us don't even know what it was. We're mad because they hurt innocent people, and that's always and everywhere immoral. And so there's probably a huge overlap between people who are disgusted by what the Israeli

• 30:53Tucker Carlson?

  government is doing in the territories it occupies, and people who are also disgusted by what the Nazi regime did in the territories it occupied. Probably almost 100% overlap between those two groups.

• 31:06Tucker Carlson?

  But because no one will say that out loud and because extremists have been allowed to hijack the conversation and because there isn't actually free speech on this topic, the free speech that Charlie Kirk so assiduously called for, the other side of the argument, which is moderate and temperate and fact-based and not hateful, which is universal rather than sectarian, which rejects identity politics in favor of universally applicable standards for every human being, that side of the argument rarely gets an airing, if ever. And so the net result of this is to, with every passing day, make people crazier, angrier,

• 31:49Tucker Carlson?

  and less restrained. And if that process continues long enough, you wind up with Mark Levin, basically, in the clip we're about to show you, calling for Kristallnacht. Watch.

• 32:01Speaker 07

  For six months, I've been fighting these bastards, whether it's Tucker Carlson or whether it's Nick Fuentes, and I've been looking over my shoulder looking for help. And you know what I found? Nothing. Nothing. We're here today to do something about this. What do you mean we don't cancel people? We canceled David Duke. Donald Trump canceled David Duke. We canceled Pat Buchanan. We canceled the John Birch Society. We canceled Joseph

• 32:40Speaker 07

  Sobrin. We canceled pornography on TV. We cancel stuff all the damn time. Hitler admirers, Stalin admirers, Jew haters, American haters, Churchill haters. You're damn right, we're going to cancel them and deplatform them.

• 32:57Tucker Carlson?

  Whenever you hear that guy talk, you want to be serious because it does matter and it is important to explain what's wrong with what he said. But it's so disjointed and illogical. There's always at least a line or two in there that doesn't make any sense at all. "We canceled pornography on TV." You know, I think you've promoted pornography on TV, as far as I know. Churchill haters, just like throw it in there. Jew haters. Okay, yeah, I'm against Jew haters. Churchill haters? You're not allowed to hate Churchill now? Was it like some British prime minister who screwed up at Gallipoli? I think it's okay to dislike Churchill? No, I kind of, let me check my passport and see if there's fine print in there about having to pledge loyalty to Churchill. I don't recall that part of

• 33:41Tucker Carlson?

  the American creed, Churchill haters. Where did that come from? Actually, you should think about it because if it's disqualifying to hate Churchill, maybe there's more to Churchill than we've been told. Why are they defending Churchill? Hmm. Now that they've gotten pornography off TV, yeah, Mark Levin's against pornography. Sorry for the sidetrack there. It's just impossible to parse a Mark Levin speech without winding up in a cul-de-sac. But to the center of what he's saying, here you have, so the speech you just saw was given November 1st, 2025. So that's almost exactly one year from Donald Trump's second election as president,

• 34:25Tucker Carlson?

  which was the first Tuesday, of course, of November 2024. And if you can recall back almost two years and ask yourself, what was that election about? And if you voted for Trump, and if you're watching this, maybe you did. I did. What were you voting for? Well, probably a lot of things. Lower gas prices, no more foreign wars. But one of the things you were voting against, of course, was what we called cancel culture. The idea that if you disagree with someone, you just shut them down. Can't have a bank account. Can't fly in an airplane. Can't have a job. Can't have a spouse. We're just going to cancel you. We're not going to rebut what you're saying. We're not going to explain why it's wrong. We're not going to offer a competing vision that entices you over to our side. We're going to smack you in the face as hard as we can till you shut up and

• 35:08Tucker Carlson?

  never say it again. In fact, we may hurt you as a lesson to everybody else. Hang you by your ankles so pastors by will know, don't say that. That's what cancel culture is. And if there's one thing that virtually every single human being who voted for Donald Trump fewer than two years ago voted against, it's cancel culture. And here's Donald Trump's favorite pundit, a Fox News host in good standing, unlike some of us, calling openly in a speech on camera for cancel culture, including canceling people who don't like Winston Churchill. But there's menace in his voice, of course. "Damn it, bastards!

• 35:49Tucker Carlson?

  Bastards!" He wants to hurt people who disagree with him. He's got what we used to refer to in right-wing world as Antifa face. "Ah! Screwed up in rage. I'm mad at my parents, so I'm going to beat you in the face with a flagpole. Ah!" Antifa face. Mark Levin! Maybe this is what power does to people. Maybe when they finally have the ability to hurt others, when they think they can finally make words they don't like go away, "Shut up or I'll hurt you," they can't resist using the power to do that. It may be that power itself corrupts everyone who wields it. That's something we're thinking about.

• 36:31Tucker Carlson?

  You don't want to believe that, but there's a lot of evidence that that's true, given that the people we elected fewer than two years ago wound up behaving exactly like the people they replaced, except a little more aggressive and a little less disorganized. Because of course, the upside of dealing with liberals is they, you know, everything is like macrame and campfires. They can never really get it together. They argue amongst themselves. But you elect these guys, and they're, of course, still disorganized and flaky and, no, they probably couldn't organize your daughter's birthday party very well, but they're a little better than the Kamala Harris team. So it's the same brand of politics, but a little harder edged. What? It's just remarkable to see it. And it makes you wonder,

• 37:15Tucker Carlson?

  are there options? And if you care about speech, which is to say if you care about humanity, because there's no difference, we are defined by language and our ability to use it. It's not the opposable thumb that separates us from animals. It's our tongue. It's language. It's words. In the beginning was the word, as the opening verse of John says, and it's true. The word is the most important thing. Words are the most important thing. They endure long past. Bullets or cannons or swords have been replaced by some new technology that kills people. But all that in the end is forgotten. Words remain.

• 37:57Tucker Carlson?

  Your words define you. And if someone takes away your words and your ability to articulate them, they've stripped you of your humanity. So in the end, it is the thing that we have to defend. We have no choice. We have a moral obligation, an obligation, a duty to the people who follow us, to defend it. But now the question is, who will defend it? Because when the party that opposed free speech got beaten by the party that promised to uphold free speech, and then less than two years later, both are united in their total opposition to free speech and are threatening people, openly threatening people, hurting people

• 38:39Tucker Carlson?

  who disagree with them, and not even bothering to explain why they're wrong, you have to ask if both parties are against it, who's for it? And before you think too long, here's the answer. Everyone is for it, except the people in charge. That's the truth. People with power always oppose free speech. Everybody else, of course, clings to it like a life jacket. It's all they have in a country where people no longer have economic power, where the middle class hasn't been the majority of the country since 2015, where the integrity of our elections is, well, up for debate in a world where AI can hack anything. Anyone

• 39:20Tucker Carlson?

  who thinks electronic voting is secure hasn't thought about it very carefully. So in a world where people don't have economic power, and they may or may not have political power, what power do they have? The power of their own conscience and their inalienable right to express what's on their conscience. They have in the end only one thing, and that's their words. And so anyone who seeks to take that away from them is a blood enemy. Make no mistake. And that gets us to the free speech case of the moment, which is an unusually illuminating one. And it has to do with a performer called Macklemore, you may or

• 39:59Tucker Carlson?

  may not be familiar with, but he was scheduled to give a performance with Ed Sheeran at Gillette Stadium recently, and he was canceled by Robert Kraft, owner of the Patriots and owner of a number of stadiums, who is, I think it's fair to say, a fairly fanatical devotee of the State of Israel. And not just devoted to the State of Israel, which is fine, but devoted to hurting anyone who is not and slandering them as antisemites. And so he canceled this performer's appearance at his stadium and said, anyone who criticizes the State of Israel, and of course, he dressed it up in false language, antisemites, Nazis,

• 40:40Tucker Carlson?

  Jew haters are not allowed here. But what's interesting about this case is that the performer he canceled, Macklemore, had a chance to speak for himself. So we want to read this to you. This is what he said onstage as he criticized the State of Israel's behavior in Gaza. And just to be clear, anyone who's not criticizing what Israel is doing in Gaza is either lying about it, and there's some of that, or just doesn't know anything about it. And there's a lot of that. Most people just don't know. But five minutes of reading about it, and not just some partisan, anti-Israel take on it, but just the facts which have been gathered and widely disseminated, anyone who reads about it for five minutes cannot come away defending it because there is no defense of murdering tens of thousands of

• 41:25Tucker Carlson?

  children. It's always and everywhere wrong, whether Jewish children or Catholic children or Palestinian children, doesn't matter. In any case, before we tell you what Robert Kraft and various news outlets said about this performer, Macklemore, here's what Macklemore himself said because it matters. These are the words that got him canceled as a Jew hater, and we're going to read them. Quote, "To all my Jewish brothers and sisters, criticism of Israel, criticism of apartheid, being against genocide, in no way is a criticism of you. My message is for peace, love for all human beings to be treated with dignity, respect, and equality. So I say, free Palestine. I say, free Lebanon, free Cuba." He goes

• 42:08Tucker Carlson?

  on. "To my Jewish brothers and sisters, criticism of Israel, criticism of apartheid, being against genocide is no way a criticism of you." Because, by the way, it's not.

• 42:19Tucker Carlson?

  It's not. Criticism of the behavior of a secular government is not criticism of an entire people, many of whom disapprove, in fact, hate what that government is doing. And so don't let anyone lie to you. They are not the same thing. That is not Jew hate, despite what the IHRA definition may try to impose on you and this country's legal code. They are not the same thing. And so that's what he said. So for saying that, we want to put on the screen how Fox News characterized that. Watch this. This is the headline of the story. "Anti-Semitic Rapper Booted From Performing At Gillette Stadium Over 'Free Palestine'

• 43:03Tucker Carlson?

  Chant." Anti-Semitic rapper. Okay, now. Now, it's actually worth going on here. You find yourself in middle age doing things you never thought you would do, which is like defending political rappers on your podcast. Never thought I'd be here. But it's not a defense of any one person. It's a defense of the truth, of the literal meaning of words and the intent of the words and of reason. But above all, it's a defense of the inalienable right of every person to express his conscience, whether you or I like it or not. So the Fox News piece, and not to beat up on Fox News, but a lot of people uncritically believe what they watch or read.

• 43:46Tucker Carlson?

  And so here's how FoxNews.com characterized this controversy. Quote, "Macklemore is learning the hard way that concertgoers paying top dollar for stadium shows do not want a lecture on Middle Eastern geopolitics from the guy who wrote Thrift Shop." Oh, okay. So what does that tell you? Concertgoers who are paid a lot for these tickets aren't interested in Macklemore's views on the Middle East. Well, we haven't polled the topic, so of course, we don't know. We watched a video of his performance onstage, and we noticed that the whole stadium seemed to be cheering him as he said, "Free Palestine." But what do we know? We're not pollsters. What we do know is that the audience didn't make the decision.

• 44:28Tucker Carlson?

  And in fact, there's a way to know what the audience thinks, and that's by continuing to allow Macklemore to perform. And if he sells tickets, well, presumably, the audience agrees, or they wouldn't be buying them. But the Fox News piece, in a very kind of clever, feline, incredibly dishonest way, frames this as a decision that the audience made. Concertgoers who are paid a high dollar for tickets don't want to hear the lecture. Really? They're the ones who canceled him? They're the ones who said, "You can't perform at the stadium?" Oh, no. One billionaire made that decision. And then he got in the line with a bunch of other billionaires who also own sports teams and said, "We can't let this guy perform in our stadiums." Is that the market at work?

• 45:13Tucker Carlson?

  Is it actually the market at work? That's what they're telling you, which is his stadium. Really? Well, if that's going to be the standard, let's take a close look at how he got the stadium. Were there state or federal tax dollars involved in that? Was that purchase in any way subsidized by the public? Yeah, I think so. Has any stadium in the last 30 years in the United States been a product of pure market capitalism? Or are they all subsidized by taxpayers? I don't know. We're going to have to grok that one. But our guess is that every single stadium in the United States, including Gillette Stadium, which is owned by Robert Kraft, is subsidized by taxpayers against their will.

• 45:57Tucker Carlson?

  So it's not as simple as, oh, he owns it, or any of these people own anything. And we are strongly in favor of property rights, strongly, and justice. But that's not what's happening here. This is a veto by one guy, likely against the wishes of the overwhelming majority of the American population. So don't tell me this is a product of the market at work. This is censorship by the billionaire Epstein class. And by the way, yes, he is mentioned in the Epstein files. Look it up. So why would you defend that? You could argue about how to fix it. Not that easy to fix, really. There are some, and if this goes on long enough, there will be many who just called from taking the stadium away from Robert Kraft.

• 46:42Tucker Carlson?

  We're not for that. We're not for anything radical or crazy, actually. This is a hotbed of moderation. But we can tell you that if someone doesn't move to fix the current situation, where a tiny group of totally immoral, monomaniacal people who have no actual connection to the United States or loyalty to it or love for it, and don't care at all about the founding documents and the spirit that they express, which is of individual sovereignty, if those people continue behaving like this, you're going to get a radical population. So maybe short term, Robert Kraft felt like he was doing a good thing by getting this

• 47:27Tucker Carlson?

  Jew hater offstage who just spent, you know, five minutes onstage explaining how he loves Jews but doesn't like the behavior of the Netanyahu government, and that's like a good thing to slander him as an anti-Semite. But long term, it's very foolish. And it's even more foolish to defend it, as many on the so-called right are. And that raises the question, what does it mean to be on the right? If you're defending censorship by billionaires who share none of your values? How are you conservative? And how more precisely? A year and five days after the murder of Charlie Kirk, are you upholding his memory? Well, that's the question we had to ask ourselves, as we saw, someone we know very

• 48:08Tucker Carlson?

  well and still like, but who appears every day on the Charlie Kirk Show, say something we found absolutely remarkable. And this is not a personal attack, and it's done with some reluctance. But you just have to say it out loud. This is where we are. We're talking about a man called Blake Neff, who worked for me for years, always liked him a lot, helped get him the job that he currently has. But there was a pretty distressing and highly revealing, which is why we're going to talk about it, profile of him in Politico recently. And there's a lot in there that we're not going to get involved with, but there was

• 48:48Tucker Carlson?

  a passage that we do think is worth highlighting, because it tells you a lot about the total rot at the center of the conservative movement as of September 2026. And whenever you get this kind of rot, you get people who literally can't hear themselves. And we're not, don't want to be too judgmental here, because a lot has happened in the last year, a lot of traumatic events for the staff of Turning Point, and so you always want to extend grace to them. I've tried to do that, even as they do things I disagree with, and I know that Charlie would vehemently disagree with. And I've been frustrated by that, but haven't said a word. But the second that you give up on the very core of Charlie Kirk's message while continuing

• 49:31Tucker Carlson?

  to occupy his studio under his name, I think it's important to say something. So that's what we're doing now. So I want to read this to you. This is a profile of Blake Neff from Politico. "Neff confessed to grappling in a roundabout way with the possibility that his maximalist position on free speech has helped foster the conditions that have allowed rank conspiracism to flourish. I've reflected on this often," he said, sipping a Sumerian flavored cold brew on a leather couch in the studio's green room." So let's just stop right there. A maximalist position on free speech. And this is not, by the way, that's not a Blake Neff quote, just to be completely fair, and we want to be fair.

• 50:08Tucker Carlson?

  That's the anti-free speech Politico author, Ian Ward's kind of clever framing here. But it's very common, maximalist position. Well, there's no maximalist position on free speech, any more than there is on pregnancy. You either are for it, or you are pregnant, or you're not. Free speech means acknowledging the inherent right of your fellow citizens, whether or not you like them, to say what they really think. Period. And if what they really think is repugnant to you, and if they have some version of events that you consider a poisonous conspiracy theory, there's not really anything you can do about it. In fact, there's literally nothing you can do about it under our system, and I would

• 50:50Tucker Carlson?

  also argue, under Christian precepts, other than rebut it and offer a competing vision that is more compelling to listeners. That's it. As Charlie Kirk said at the outset of this segment, more speech. But that's not the conclusion that many on the right are coming to. Now, why? Probably because they spend way too much time on social media, and they read every attack on themselves, and they get more paranoid. In fact, they become kind of a version of what they claim to hate, which is conspiracy nuts. But they get completely overheated, they feel like they're at war. I'm at war! Never seen war, of course. They think they're at war, they think they're under attack.

• 51:33Tucker Carlson?

  And bit by bit, it completely corrodes their decency, but also their sense of proportion. And they wind up abandoning the principles they're there to uphold. So as they sit day after day underneath a sign that says Charlie Kirk on it, they wind up with views like this. And we're going to read this. And we're quoting, this is Blake Neff, the guy on the Charlie Kirk Show. "We got what we wanted on speech, and that means we also have to endure a lot of things that were tamped down on before." Neff sees only two potential paths forward. This is a verbatim quote. "Either we have to make our peace with censorship and explain how we're going to do that, or we have to explain how we're going to combat this without censorship."

• 52:18Tucker Carlson?

  Period. But we've got to confront it.

• 52:23Tucker Carlson?

  And that's the point at which you just, you just feel like, well, we're done. We may have to make our peace with censorship. How would we do that? It's like saying, well, you know, I'm really mad. We may have to make our peace with genocide. We may have to kill, you know, didn't, didn't ever think I'd say it. Didn't ever think I'd be here. We're gonna have to kill them all. Maybe there's another way to do it. But it's possible we might have to make our peace with murdering all their kids. Just because it's, it's that important. It's that bad. Didn't, didn't ever think we'd come to this place, but here we are. So we're gonna think about it. No, you can never make your peace with turning other people into slaves.

• 53:05Tucker Carlson?

  You can never be the slave master. Because slavery is bad for them, but it's even worse for you. It is totally dehumanizing to everyone involved to turn other human beings into something that is less than a human being. And that is exactly what censorship does each and every time. So even to float that possibility that you could quote, "make your peace with it", there will be no peace with censorship. You can't have peace with censorship. Because you are suppressing by definition what people believe is true. So if you want to eliminate, if you want to forestall even the possibility of peace,

• 53:48Tucker Carlson?

  try to impose censorship. It's an oxymoron, "make your peace with censorship." But that's where we are. Because people have lost any sense at all of what the principles, the ones that actually matter are. And to restate, those principles are not, "don't hurt other people's feelings", or "tell truths that billionaires don't like", those truths are, "respect the inherent, the God-given dignity within every person", and that dignity is expressed through their ability to say what they think, not what you think. Other people have no obligation to repeat back what you think. They have an inherent right to say what they think.

• 54:32Tucker Carlson?

  Because their interests and their dignity and their humanity is every bit as important and every bit equal to yours. And even on the Charlie Kirk Show, they seem to have forgotten that. And we hope they remember. Eating right is pretty important, but it's hard if you live here. About half of the American diet is ultra-processed foods, and that hurts you. Fake food harms your body, your mind, and especially your liver. So people think that feeling sluggish and foggy and bloated is just what it is to be older, but that's not true. Eating crap makes you feel that way. Well, our friends at Dose have a solution. It's called Dose for Your Liver. This doctor-approved, plant-based liver supplement is clinically proven to promote liver function

• 55:16Tucker Carlson?

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• 56:00Tucker Carlson?

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• 56:45Tucker Carlson?

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• 59:04Tucker Carlson?

  Meanwhile, we thought it'd be interesting to speak to someone who has been historically on the other side of political debates from us. She has been for 19 years a host on probably the most famous left-wing podcast, one of the very first left-wing podcasts in the world, The Young Turks. And that's Anna Kasparian, who we just spoke to a moment ago. Here she is. Anna Kasparian, thank you so much for doing this. Do you think we have free speech in the United States as of now?

• 59:38Speaker 10

  I think it would be wrong to say that we have free speech, considering the fact that we literally have the majority of our states passing laws that would punish American citizens or organizations that are critical of Israel by denying them any public money or public grant. That's clearly a violation of our constitutional rights, because it's literally the government getting involved and violating our freedom of expression. So no, at this current moment, I would not say that we actually fully have free speech here in the United States.

• 1:00:10Tucker Carlson?

  Yes. There's a, there's a way, though, that free speech is not just defined as the Constitution defines it, which is a system where the government stays neutral on speech. But also, like, on a practical level, if you are punished by organizations by saying, denying you a job, or housing, or a right to a bank account, or a right to live peacefully in your own home, then, like, in what sense do you have free speech?

• 1:00:38Speaker 10

  Well, I mean, that's true. Now, the argument is that if you are engaging in certain speech, you can't expect that it comes without consequence.

• 1:00:47Tucker Carlson?

  That's right.

• 1:00:47Speaker 10

  That you, that you should expect a response that you might not like to that speech. And, you know, the big argument that you'll hear from those defending, say, Robert Kraft today, would argue, "Well, Robert Kraft is the billionaire who owns the Gillette Stadium, and he gets to decide what type of musical acts are able to perform there." Okay, I guess that's a fair point to make, but why don't we take a step back and look at how this intermingles with our democratic process? Because if I can recall, several years ago, you had, you know, the world's elites getting together at the World Economic Forum to note that their plan moving forward is to ensure that no one owns anything. In fact, all of us will just have to rent things.

• 1:01:32Speaker 10

  So there will be the owners who own the property, and then the rest of us. And so if we're gonna base free speech rights on...

• 1:01:42Speaker 10

  Property owners, you know, the wealthy elite being able to squash free speech because they happen to own things and we don't, is that really a fair and just society? And do we have the economic conditions on the ground to ensure that there's a level playing field? So if one billionaire decides, no, I'm going to crush you because I don't like your comments about a foreign country, are we going to have other opportunities or other platforms, other means to put our work out into the world? You know, that's the real question here.

• 1:02:11Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. Well, and in some way, I mean, the nature of our economy's changed, the economic structure of the United States has changed. Obviously, there's much more concentration at the top, but the truth is, rich people have always run this in every other country. I just think we have different, a different kind of rich people. Like, previous generations of oligarchs felt like, well, you know, everybody has a right to say what he thinks, and if I disagree with you, I've got some obligation to explain why I make a counter case. I don't see that, that gracefulness at all in evidence now. It seems like our current leadership class, the current oligarchs who run everything, just decide like, if I disagree with you, I don't have to explain why, I don't have to convince people that you're wrong and I'm right. I can just crush you and that's enough.

• 1:02:54Speaker 10

  Well, there used to be a middle, middle man, I guess, and that middle man used to be our government, right? The government would step in and provide protections or defend ordinary people. And I'm worried about the lack of will among our political elite to do what they know is the right thing to do in serving the American people. I mean, these are people who signed up to be public servants, yet all they do is serve moneyed interests who bribe them during their campaigns. And so, just to give you one example, and I know you've been very critical of FDR, but not for the reason that I'm about to describe. You know, FDR was savvy enough to realize that, following the Great Depression, communism,

• 1:03:38Speaker 10

  socialism was on the rise, and he very much wanted to protect a capitalistic society. So he realized, if I don't step in and implement some of these economic policies that will help improve the quality of life for ordinary American workers, we're headed toward socialism, we're headed toward communism. And he didn't want that. And so, it is same with Henry Ford. I mean, Henry Ford was the CEO who decided, you know what, it makes sense to give them, my workers, the weekends off, it makes sense for me to pay them enough money to be able to afford Ford vehicles. Like, these are people who don't just think about their personal benefits and what benefits them in the short term.

• 1:04:21Speaker 10

  They have long-term goals that goes beyond, you know, their own self-indulgence. And we just don't have much of that right now, either in our political elite, or certainly not among the billionaire oligarchs who we're unfortunately being ruled by right now.

• 1:04:37Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, there's, there's not a lot of longitudinal thinking. It seems like there's a kind of a day trade worldview in force. So you've always been on the left, on the progressive left, I don't think you're much of a Republican voter, and, or haven't been, anyway. Uh, I think it's fair to say, but I noticed that-

• 1:04:57Speaker 10

  I think it's complicated. It's complicated.

• 1:04:59Tucker Carlson?

  It's complicated, it's complicated, right? Well, it's complicated for everybody all of a sudden, so I'm with you on the complexity. But I, on the question of free speech, so I saw the Biden administration as totally opposed to free speech, they're pressuring social media companies to shut down people's accounts for disagreeing with them on COVID or lots of other topics. And I really believe that the Trump coalition was put there in part to defend free speech, free expression, free exchange of ideas, including those you disagree with. And yet, it seems like a lot of its leaders pivoted almost immediately to a Biden-like position on speech, where if I don't like you, I'm going to cancel you. When they had just run against what they called cancel culture like 20 minutes before. Am I imagining that?

• 1:05:43Speaker 10

  No, you're not imagining it. And the fact of the matter is, regardless of which political side is doing it, and both political sides do it.

• 1:05:50Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:05:51Speaker 10

  It's, it's an attempt to hide something from the public, information that they don't want the public knowing about. And I think a big red flag, especially from the government, is when they say they're doing something in the name of safety. So in the case of the Biden administration, we want to keep you safe, we don't want you to get COVID disinformation. In the case of the Trump administration, and by the way, also to some extent with Biden on the Israel issue, there were efforts and have been efforts to essentially say, we got to keep our Jewish community safe. As, as a result of that, we can't let you say certain things that are critical of the Israeli government, which obviously makes no sense, and we shouldn't be conflating

• 1:06:35Speaker 10

  the Jewish population with a foreign country. But, you know, Israel likes to hide behind human shields in their own way, so they intentionally make that conflation.

• 1:06:44Tucker Carlson?

  That's for sure.

• 1:06:45Speaker 10

  But yeah, the word safety, once you hear the word safety, and by the way, I've seen every political faction use similar arguments, even on the far left, you know, stifling free speech on college campuses in some cases because students feel unsafe. And I'm sorry, in that particular context, you are going to an institution to learn, obviously, but also to be made uncomfortable. Like, you're not growing, you're not learning until you're actually being confronted with ideas that challenge your own.

• 1:07:17Tucker Carlson?

  Sure, and it's also a misread of the human condition. You're never safe. I mean, you, the future is not assured, and resistance to your narcissism is just like a fact of life for everybody, and it ought to be, and that's how you become an adult, right? I mean, of course, so you actually want confrontation because it draws you out of your own stupid little universe. But I just wonder if the left did it with cancel culture and wokeness, or whatever you want to call it, but that whole movement that we suffered through for so many years, and now the right is doing exactly the same thing, they just picked a different victim, it was black people, now it's Jewish people, it'll be somebody else, it's all, it's always a cover for protecting the people in charge, then like, who actually will defend free speech?

• 1:08:02Speaker 10

  Well, there have always been very loud voices that have been consistent on protecting free speech. You know, Glenn Greenwald happens to be one of them, he is undeterred in that mission. And in fact, the, the one area where he and I might have a disagreement on free speech is whether or not corporations are considered people with protected speech and thus can provide unlimited campaign bribes to politicians. Like, he has defended that Supreme Court ruling. I have a different perspective on that, but in terms of, in actual individuals practicing their free speech, he's always been consistent. And whether the cancel culture proponents like it or not, we do still have constitutional rights.

• 1:08:46Speaker 10

  And if someone is willing to take some issue to the court, I do believe that the courts tend to side appropriately based on what our constitutional rights happen to be, but that can be a costly way of pushing back and defending your free rights. And it becomes an even bigger problem when, again, you literally have the government on a state-by-state case, passing laws. I mean, I mean, Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, literally went to Florida to sign state legislation that made it clear, if you're criticizing Israel, we're not going to give you any government money, no, no grants for you, or if, even if it's a government institution, we're going to strip you of your funding.

• 1:09:27Speaker 10

  That's ridiculous, especially since this has to do with criticizing a foreign country. You can, you can criticize our country as much as you want, and I like that, that's, that's what we should have, but we shouldn't have certain protections for a foreign country that violate our free speech rights.

• 1:09:42Tucker Carlson?

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• 1:10:25Tucker Carlson?

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• 1:10:59Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:11:28Speaker 11

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• 1:12:13Speaker 11

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• 1:12:28Tucker Carlson?

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• 1:13:12Tucker Carlson?

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• 1:13:26Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:13:55Speaker 11

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• 1:14:39Speaker 11

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• 1:14:56Tucker Carlson?

  My sense is it's a very anti-democratic, small d democratic move too, because I think most people hate this. When you see AOC, thinking about running for president, get up and admit, like, wokeness was, it went too far, it was bad. What she's really saying is secretly, everybody kind of hated that. And, you know, it takes a few years for people to admit it, because people do benefit from shutting down public conversations about this or that. But like, ordinary people hate it. And now she has to admit that. Very few people are admitting that now about our current explosion of identity politics around Israel. But my sense is that, deep down, though, they may be afraid to say it, most people really resent this. Do you think that?

• 1:15:35Speaker 10

  Oh, I absolutely, I know for a fact that people resent it. But people are terrified.

• 1:15:40Tucker Carlson?

  I know.

• 1:15:41Speaker 10

  And for me, the reason why I'm a loudmouth about things like this is because I know that when people see an individual, a public figure, go out there unafraid to just say what needs to be said, it kind of gives them permission. It gives them a little more comfort to come out and say what they want to say. And we do need to foster that kind of environment. And I can't emphasize this enough. We can't give the censorious people, regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum or on the issue of Israel, we cannot give them an inch, under any circumstance. So like, for me, when they come at you with a bad faith allegation, the left falls for this almost every time.

• 1:16:24Speaker 10

  And I'm trying to get them to, like, think a little more savvy. They're not looking for an apology. And in fact, if you do apologize, when you haven't really said anything wrong to begin with, they see that as an admission of guilt. So don't give them an inch. Don't play their game. Don't play their game. As long as what you actually said wasn't coming from a place of hate, where you're trying to get people hurt, you're just sharing your perspective on something, don't let the bad faith actors convince you that maybe apologizing will make, like, this crazy mob go away. The mob is not going to go away, unless you ignore them and double down, in fact. So.

• 1:17:01Tucker Carlson?

  You've, you, yeah. You got a Congressional Medal of Honor for that. I mean, that's definitely the way you approach it. And God bless you for that. Graham Plathner, what just happened to the political candidate in the state of Maine, Graham Plathner, earlier this year, seems like a pretty good example of what you're describing. Can you, now that, you know, we've had a month or two to assess it, what, what was that, do you think?

• 1:17:25Speaker 10

  Well, okay, so let me back up and give you my perspective on Graham Plathner and the entirety of his campaign. So I'm in a kind of blackpilled place in life where, you know, the midterms are coming and everyone thinks it's like, oh, it's going to make all the diff- it's not going to make all the difference. Our political system's broken. And I don't really have a dog in this fight, believe it or not. So when Graham Plathner came on the scene, I'm like, same old, same old. Yes, you're going to do all these wonderful things for working-class Americans. I don't believe anybody, okay?

• 1:17:57Tucker Carlson?

  Fair.

• 1:17:57Speaker 10

  And then the tattoo thing happened, you know? And I side-eyed him, because I'm like, how do you have? Like, at some point, he realized the tattoo he got, the skull and bones. He realized that it was like a Nazi symbol. He even admitted that. And then he kept it on his person for years, until he ran for Congress and it became an issue. I thought that was weird, but whatever. It's not, for me, it's not disqualifying necessarily. I just didn't buy his story.

• 1:18:23Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 1:18:23Speaker 10

  Final thing, though, was the allegation of forcible rape, which I understand when someone has been raped and they're terrified to go to the authorities, because sometimes it ends up backfiring when you go to the authorities. It's insult to injury, and you go through a terrible time. If you don't have hard evidence, people are going to deny you or blame you. It's awful. So I can understand that. But the woman who accused him of forcible rape, who she had been dating for two years, by the way, decided, I'm not going to go to the authorities after he allegedly forcibly raped me. I'm just going to come out and talk about it in public

• 1:19:07Speaker 10

  as the, you know, primary for Plathner's, you know, race approaches, thus forcing him to drop out. And then we never heard from her again. Did she ever go to the authorities? Is she comfortable with the fact that if, in fact, she was allegedly raped by Graham Plathner, well, now he's free to go wherever he wants to go, do whatever he wants to do, and potentially rape someone else?

• 1:19:29Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 1:19:30Speaker 10

  And, and so for me, Tucker, I think the reason why she didn't go to the authorities and instead came out and told the entire world about what allegedly happened is because I don't believe it actually happened. I just don't. And the reporting on it intentionally omitted details that I think the public should have known about.

• 1:19:48Tucker Carlson?

  You think?

• 1:19:49Speaker 10

  Right, namely, the fact that she sends him a, the way their interaction started that night, she sends him a text message about how she needs a glute massage. But they omitted that from the reporting. I just, to me, it looks like a fishy story to say the least.

• 1:20:04Tucker Carlson?

  The glute being the butt muscles?

• 1:20:06Speaker 10

  Yes, yeah.

• 1:20:08Tucker Carlson?

  Pretty provocative text. I mean, and look, I wasn't there, you know? I wasn't dating Graham Plathner, I don't know. But that seems, that seems like a relevant detail to me. Here's, my take on it was less sophisticated than yours, but I was just trying to take a big-picture assessment. So here's a guy who's, who's clearly going to beat Susan Collins, one of the most mediocre, she's a joke, of course, Susan Collins. Probably not an evil person, but like, Susan Collins, come on now. He's going to beat her. He's a conventional Democrat in some ways, but the big issue on which he disagrees with his party's leadership is Israel. And he just says it. He's like, what's happening in Gaza is a crime, because it is a crime. And it's that issue that torpedoes his candidacy,

• 1:20:52Tucker Carlson?

  because his own party, including the state party in Maine, turns against him on orders from their donors. That, that seemed to be what happened to me, but maybe I'm missing something.

• 1:21:04Speaker 10

  I mean, if you do take a step back and you look at the specific candidates who have been hounded and treated poorly throughout their primaries, and even after they won their primaries, you'll notice that there is a through line. And that through line is-

• 1:21:20Speaker 10

  Criticism of Israel, criticism of US financial support for Israel's wars, genocides, atrocities, things like that. And you can't argue that you want to be a public servant who genuinely believes in an America-first agenda when you're okay with doing things like merging the IDF with the US military.

• 1:21:42Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:21:42Speaker 10

  Or continuing this like gravy train that we can't afford. We like, we are literally going deeper and deeper and deeper into debt in order to pay for Israel's weapons. Trump just signed off on another $3 billion for 2,000-pound bombs for Israel. They're not even paying for it. We're gonna go into debt.

• 1:22:01Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:22:01Speaker 10

  To provide it for them. And that is an injustice. And these are the types of things they don't want us talking about. They want us to shut up. There is nothing in my commentary right now that even touches on, you know, the Jewish identity, right? It's about morality. It's about finite resources. It's about doing what's right for the American people as a member of the political class. And somehow, that is considered like incredibly outrageous, dangerous, and offensive to say. And other candidates who have said things like this tend to be the ones who are targeted maniacally by people like Laura Loomer, who, by the way, last June, I don't know if people know this, was bitching

• 1:22:43Speaker 10

  about the fact that not enough Americans hate Muslims. So maybe we need another 9/11.

• 1:22:49Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. So what does that make you think when somebody who's, you know, a very powerful player, for some reason, at this moment, within our political process, calls for another 9/11? I mean, that, that seems like an extraordinary thing to say.

• 1:23:10Speaker 10

  I, not only is it extraordinary, I think the bigger picture, I think the overarching issue that I'm struggling with is what, like, what is my identity? Because I've always identified as American. I've always identified as American, right? Like, I love this country. I want to defend this country. I want to live here for the rest of my life. My, you know, my family, my brother is raising his four kids here. I want them to thrive. I want everyone to thrive. But there are so many different things happening simultaneously right now, Tucker, that makes me think, oh, my God, like, we are surrounded by people who don't really see this as their country. Like, they just, it's like a commuter country.

• 1:23:52Speaker 10

  Like, you come in, you take what you need, and then you go. And so when you have someone like Laura Loomer saying, maybe we need another 9/11, disgusting. Okay, when you see the willingness of our lawmakers to sell out our own country, put us deeper and deeper into debt on behalf of a foreign country, it just disgusts. It just feels like everything here is being exploited for other purposes.

• 1:24:17Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:24:18Speaker 10

  And I'm angry about it. And I know other Americans are angry about it. Elaine Chao, Elaine Chao turns out to have worked for the Chinese government while serving in the, the Trump administration. That was a huge story that was broken by the Daily Caller. I just reported on it yesterday on our show. How is that okay? How is that okay?

• 1:24:38Tucker Carlson?

  She's a two-time cabinet secretary in two separate administrations. Her husband was Senate Majority Leader, and she's working for China. And of course, there'll be, there will never be any attempt to hold Elaine Chao accountable for that, ever.

• 1:24:52Speaker 10

  It's crazy.

• 1:24:52Tucker Carlson?

  But at least, I guess, here's the, the, the point of my thoughts today on this specific topic. At least, we can still acknowledge it, report the truth about it, try to call other people's attention to it, rally support for some kind of solution to it. That's why speech is important. And I just wonder, given that all of our conversations take place digitally, and the digital platforms are owned by people who clearly are not committed to the concept of free speech, like, how long does this last?

• 1:25:22Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:25:51Speaker 11

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or get a Corolla sedan packed with the latest features, advanced tech, and head-turning style. Or take a test drive in two of Toyota's most popular SUVs, the spacious, family-friendly Grand Highlander and adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid and plug-in hybrid models available across the lineup, plus efficient all-electrics like the BZ, BZ Woodland, and all-wheel-drive CHR, you can drive your way and skip the pump. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering. With legendary resale value, built on a reputation for quality and reliability.

• 1:26:35Speaker 11

  So when it's time for your next Toyota, you could trade in for more. From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places.

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• 1:27:23Speaker 10

  I don't know, but I'm not gonna stop. I'm not gonna stop. And I'm willing to, I mean, there have already been consequences for me personally, and I haven't stopped. And I'm gonna keep going.

• 1:27:33Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:27:34Speaker 10

  Because the ability to express yourself is one of the most precious rights that we have in this country. And I don't think that we should give it up willy-nilly. I, I think some people have been willing to do that. But honestly, if it takes sacrificing potentially everything, I'm gonna keep speaking my mind.

• 1:27:54Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:27:54Speaker 10

  I know no other way. It's torture to not be able to speak your mind. I, I can't imagine living in that type of society. So, look, there are consequences already. Luckily, I work for Cenk Uygur, and Cenk Uygur really does believe in free speech. And even if,

• 1:28:07Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, he does.

• 1:28:08Speaker 10

  You know, we have some big fights on the show time to time, and he's never once retaliated against me because we disagree. And I, I just love that I'm lucky enough to work for him. But even if he ended up firing me for speaking my mind, where there's a will, there's a way. And if it means that I have to do menial work to make ends meet in order to continue being able to speak my mind, I'm gonna keep speaking my mind. But here's what I would say to the audience, because this is really important. How about we don't give in to these people anymore? How about we have each other's backs as Americans?

• 1:28:42Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:28:43Speaker 10

  You get what I'm saying?

• 1:28:44Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, yes.

• 1:28:44Speaker 10

  So like, the whole Macklemore debacle, I think the way that that played out was kind of fantastic. Because there's a lot of rage among Americans who don't think he said anything wrong, even Jesse Waters. He's like, what did he, he said, free Palestine? I don't think that's hate speech. And so, people having Macklemore's back, and in fact, Ed Sheeran, being a coward in this scenario, has now lost like, half a million followers on social media, because he didn't stand up for what was right. And so, I love to see that. Let's do more of that. Let's have each other's backs, because you're not just defending one person, you're defending the whole concept of freedom of expression.

• 1:29:24Tucker Carlson?

  Amen. My boy. And on that note, thank you. Thank you for everything you've done to preserve and expand the boundaries of speech at cost to yourself. And I

• 1:29:34Speaker 10

  Thank you.

• 1:29:35Tucker Carlson?

  really think you'll be, whatever you're going through now, I think you'll be rewarded for it in the end. I believe that. So, Anna Caspary.

• 1:29:40Speaker 10

  Thank you so much.

• 1:29:41Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you very much.

• 1:29:42Speaker 10

  Thanks, Tucker.