Tristen Epps-Long on Fast Food Beginnings, Michelin’s Race Problem, and Becoming a Top Chef Champion!!

Reigning Top Chef champion Tristen Epps-Long joins Adrienne and Joe to talk about life after Top Chef, fine dining in Afro-Caribbean cuisine, and what comes after Top Chef (including his new restaurant in Houston). In this episode, we also discuss: Top Chef favorites this season and his best advice for getting through it all Who Tristen would want to face off against in a Top Chef Masters season Whether Michelin is racist or cuisineist Tristen and Adrienne’s time together at Red Rooster His ascent from McDonald’s to James Beard nominee and cooking competition champ The role of Marcus Samuelsson in his career What life after Top Chef is really like for chefs The culinary scene in Houston Walk In Confession: Booking reservations on Open Table to get out of work early Follow Tristen: @cheftristenepps Follow the show: @chefscutpod Follow Adrienne: @chefadriennecheatham Follow Joe: @insta.flamm

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  This week on The Chef's Cut, we're talking with Top Chef winner Tristan Epps about his path from McDonald's to Michelin, and how he's representing different cultures in his food. He's telling us about the compliment he loves getting from Top Chef fans.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  I had so many people reach out to me from different cultures and say like, "Thank you for representing me."

• 0:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  What he learned from his time working at McDonald's.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  I took the word "fast food" very seriously. It was like, "How much faster can I make this double cheeseburger?"

• 0:44Adrienne Cheatham?

  And he tells us how he got out of work to celebrate his birthday.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  I actually went into OpenTable, booked the last 10 tables myself, so that we wouldn't have any more reservations.

• 0:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  Before we get started, Chef's Cut Nation, we need 10 seconds of your time. Please don't forget to rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts. It helps a lot.

• 1:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  So Tristan, we're going to introduce a new segment today, because I love new segments, and I think you'll both like this segment name. On the Fly.

• 1:24Joe Flamm?

  That's wildly reasonable for you.

• 1:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  Thank you. And as you both know, I'm not always the most reasonable person, but I thought this would be a fun segment we could do to ask you a few kind of like hot-button-on-the-fly questions that we have before we get into the full Get to Know Tristan session. Is that cool with you?

• 1:44Joe Flamm?

  Sure.

• 1:44Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay, great. So I want to know, you won Top Chef this year. Congratulations.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  Thank you, thank you.

• 1:53Adrienne Cheatham?

  Would you go back to do an All-Star season? Or would you go to do Padma's show, America's Culinary Cup?

• 2:01Speaker 01

  Oh, you know what? I think, uh, I think I'd probably go back to do an All-Star season first.

• 2:07Joe Flamm?

  So you, you won last year. So this is the first season that is odd where you're not odd. So you're coming down off that high of watching yourself win Top Chef. Are you watching this year?

• 2:19Speaker 01

  I, I am watching. I have, uh, friends that are on the show, which is usually what kind of brings me like back to Top Chef. Like honestly, I don't think I watched Top Chef for a little bit of time until I saw Adrian go back on or go on. So that's what made me start watching again. Um, but yeah, coming off, coming like now seeing it outside of me being there is, uh, it is a wild, it is a wild

• 2:45Joe Flamm?

  Super weird, right?

• 2:47Speaker 01

  It's a really wild outer body experience.

• 2:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Now that you know how the sausage is made.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But, uh, yeah, I mean, I, I, I mean, I get to see a little bit of it, but uh, I mean, the season is, I mean, do you guys look at it and say like, our season was way better than that season? Like you, do you? Do you, do you like, man, we would have smoked you guys. Like, is that, is that a thing that you guys ever thought?

• 3:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  I didn't watch it after our season.

• 3:19Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. Cause she would think that all the fucking time. But, um,

• 3:25Joe Flamm?

  I, I don't know. It's interesting. It's so hard to like, put it into context, right? Cause sometimes you're like, man, I would like kill this challenge. I would crush them in this. But then it's like, you have to remember, it's like, it doesn't feel like this when you're cooking it.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 3:39Joe Flamm?

  It's easy when you're sitting there judging it. You're like, dude, I would have just done this, this, this, and I won't fuck it. It would've been lights out. Like I would

• 3:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  I'll couch quarterback the fuck out of something.

• 3:48Joe Flamm?

  But it's hard to like, get the same. I felt like watching the season after mine, I remember like watching with my wife. She's like, it's just hard to get as excited. She's like, we watched like, you know, it's like, you could say they're as good or not as good as whatever. It's like, but there's not really going to be a more exciting season than like watching yourself on it. Cause it's like crazy and you know, everyone on it. You know, every detail. So it's like, the next season is like a weird come down of you're just like, oh yeah, I know a couple of people on this. This is fun. This is cool.

• 4:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  I don't know. My, my, mine wasn't as high as yours was, Joe, because remember what happened in the finale? I lost. So.

• 4:25Joe Flamm?

  Tristan and I.

• 4:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  So it was like this season and then I was like, I was like, oh. Yeah, you guys can't relate to the second place club. I need to get Nina Compton back in here.

• 4:36Joe Flamm?

  It's tough. You know what I mean?

• 4:37Adrienne Cheatham?

  We, we ganged up on Joe when we, uh, when we had Nina on. So now I guess, you know, two winners. Fine.

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Oh, there we go. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:44Adrienne Cheatham?

  You have your time. So Tristan, who do you think is going to win this season of Top Chef? Who's your prediction for Top Chef this year? And who's your prediction for America's Culinary Cup?

• 4:55Speaker 01

  So I, I haven't, I haven't watched America's Culinary Cup yet. So for Top Chef, I think there's a lot of really cool, strong competitors. I think, uh, Lawrence is a really strong competitor. I think, I mean, I would be biased not to say, uh, my boy Anthony is not a strong competitor. I feel like I, I, I trained him well and put him through hell. I mean, there is like Rhoda seems to be on fire and she's got that, uh, I don't know. She reminds me a lot of you, actually. She's a little intense.

• 5:30Adrienne Cheatham?

  Me or Joe?

• 5:31Speaker 01

  Uh, Adrian.

• 5:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  See, nobody knows the kitchen side of me. We'll get back to that later because.

• 5:38Joe Flamm?

  We're gonna, we're, no, no, no. We're gonna get right into that.

• 5:41Adrienne Cheatham?

  We're, we're gonna finish this damn segment if it's the last thing I do though.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Uh.

• 5:47Adrienne Cheatham?

  So you said Rhoda, Anthony.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  Lawrence, uh, is really cool. I think there's like some sleeper and like Dwin. Like I said, it's an outer body experience and to see how things, there's people who like peak really high and then like die. And then there's people who like sneak up little bit by little bit. But yeah, I don't know. Once again, I don't know. I dominated the entire season.

• 6:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's right. It was like Tristan was like a little quiet, maybe challenge one or two. I can't remember, but you just like crushed it the whole season. It was just like, okay, this is another like Paul Kueh season where like, I think Tom said that in one of the seasons before, like when Paul Kueh was competing, it was like you just knew he was gonna win the entire time. And I think that's kind of how you were the whole season. Like people kind of expected you to win. So one more question. If you could go toe to toe with anybody from Top Chef, past winners, competitors, who would you want to go toe to toe with in a finale?

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Bride wise, it would be, I mean, it would be Buddha or Michael. Just like vibes wise, it would be probably like Nina.

• 7:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  Nice.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  Michael Voltaggio or?

• 7:04Speaker 01

  Voltaggio, yeah.

• 7:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  Okay. Yeah, that would be a damn good matchup. I think, ooh, all three of you like death match.

• 7:19Joe Flamm?

  So you're the first person we've had on who's worked for Adrienne.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Am I?

• 7:24Joe Flamm?

  So I gotta ask, what was it like working with Adrienne at Red Rooster, working for Adrienne? How she, how she in the kitchen is like, cause I know her as a competitor. And like you said, she's a little intense. I think people think that, you know, Adrienne is like this, you know, very sweet bubbly person, but it's like she is straight, like that hair goes back tight and it is like.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  The bandana goes on. Yeah.

• 7:50Adrienne Cheatham?

  Tristan was with me in my bandana era. Yeah.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  The bandana days. So I think it was a cool kind of experience because so when Adrienne started, you were at Street Bird. You originally came on to like kind of help Street Bird, right? And so it was me and another sous chef at Red Rooster and Red Rooster is just a beast, right? Like 400 something covers a night, like lunch was 200 covers. And we had this. Like Wild West, like it's, it's, it's like nothing else. We curse, we sing, we like, we speak Spanglish on the line. It was a lot of that. And so when Adrian came in,

• 8:33Speaker 01

  like she was coming from, from La Bernadette and like, I don't know if you were like necessarily used to like such high volume. It's so like so fast.

• 8:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  No, absolutely not.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Watching her watch us like expo and like run food and just like scream all day was like, she thought we were insane.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  So she came in trying to like structure us, which we kinda needed, but we were like organized chaos.

• 9:04Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  And like she showed me some things that actually like I still do to the day. Like, like I still write directly on tables with dry erase markers. She brought this like calmness and not like fear, but like this like, let's bring it, let's bring it. Like she tried to make us quieter.

• 9:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  It didn't work. I can tell you.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  It didn't work. It didn't work, but it did create some sort of structure because like we were just in this like really weird transition time at the time. And she was like the most permanent chef with us at the time. And, uh, and it was, I don't know. It was, it was really cool, but like, no one ever had any problems. No one ever had anything. She hated shredded cheese for the cheese sauce. Like it was her one thing where she would like pull rank on. Like I'm not shredding any more fucking cheese for this cheese sauce.

• 10:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  No.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  And I strictly remember her having to like, we had like the big Hobart like cheese grater. And her having to like completely like put all her weight on the top of it to like, get all this like super like, I mean, we shredded like 70 pounds at the time, like of just one type. And it was, I remember that. It was, it was a cool experience.

• 10:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  My elbow is still messed up from that, from that Hobart, from that attachment where you have to push it into the front of the machine. But that was a cool experience. I remember getting there and meeting Tristan and I knew about Tristan and meeting Marcus on The Taste, the TV show he did before back in the day. And it was a cool experience and it was, it was definitely an intense time, but it is weird to think like, I'm gonna see you later in life. Like there was a, we used to work so many hours. There was this one banquet down in the, the dining room in the basement called Jenny's. It was like a speakeasy. There was this one.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  Table 90.

• 11:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  It had a curve, so you couldn't see it when you walked in and we would like alternate who's gonna take a nap down on table 90.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  Table 90.

• 11:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  That was, that was an intense time, but let's get back to a little bit of Top Chef because I do want to know the food that you cooked during the season was very evocative of your culture and your background. Caribbean, Trinidadian, kind of Pan African, different flavor profile than I know you cooked for a lot of your career. Like you worked at Per Se, you know, that's, that's very different. You've worked in different countries, but mostly in fine dining. Was Top Chef the first place you really got into Caribbean cooking like Nina Compton or had you been doing it before?

• 11:48Speaker 01

  I had been doing it before. I mean, when I started working at Rooster, it was the first time I could actually put Caribbean food on a menu. Like, like I was actually encouraged to lean into it, but yeah, for, you know, the first part of my career, it was like, you know, fast food and, and like really casual and then got into fine dining by lying through my teeth. But then, uh, you know, like working in Italian restaurants, French restaurants, worked in an Armenian restaurant for a little bit. And then I worked at the Greenbrier where it was just like all ACF focused and Bucus Dor focused and I mean, couldn't be further from Caribbean as a standard at all.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  And, um, so when I finally got to start doing it, like at Rooster, it was a, like a breath of fresh air. And, uh, then I was like, I really need to kind of like develop this and hone this. And so getting on Top Chef, like my one promise to myself was like, Do what you want, like do what feels right per challenge. And most of the time it was just like, let me show culture, let me show people like, let me show those dishwashers and those line cooks that I worked with. Like their food just wasn't getting that sort of like high at the time. And so I was just really excited to do that. And I was like, no matter what, I'm just going to do that.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  If I go home for something for cassava, then I go home for cassava today.

• 13:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right, but at least it's something that you believe in.

• 13:15Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I, I think that's like, one of the biggest things. It's like going into it, it's like, all right, if I'm gonna go out, like I'm gonna go out on my own terms. Right? You know what I mean? I'm gonna go out with my boots on, like, you know, and I think like, that's the, the thing like a lot of people don't get. It's like, yeah, it's okay. They're like, oh, well, they should, it's like, yeah, but it's like, you gotta, you gotta cook what you cook and you gotta stick to your gods. You gotta like, you know what I mean? Like have that, like what you want to show and tell that story and have that point of view. I think is so, so important. And it's such, Top Chef, such a unique thing to be able to do that, right? To be able to like, show your voice time and over and over again. And they have to like, also figure it out on the fly of like, oh yeah, what is my perspective of this thing here right now?

• 13:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, for sure.

• 13:57Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, and there's one thing that like, we've talked about before. For people who've won, come in second or third on Top Chef, there's a lot of misconceptions about what does and does not change. So what for you after winning last season of Top Chef? What changed? What didn't change? And what was your expectation for what it would be like?

• 14:22Speaker 01

  So, I mean, we all know there's that like waiting period for when we're done filming. Especially like, you know, depending on, especially as like, you know, like all of us were in finales, right? So it's like, man, we're about to blow up after this. But there was that like six month period of anonymity where you're just like, man, I'm still kind of a piece of shit. And like, until, like, you just wait until you know who I am.

• 14:44Joe Flamm?

  Right, right, right.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  And, and

• 14:47Joe Flamm?

  When I come back to this Whole Foods next time, y'all are gonna know.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  You're gonna know who I am, exactly. And why I knocked over that whole thing of apples. There was a reason. Um, you know, and so, but once everything kind of went, what changed for me was not that I've never been supported, but like the support for the culture, uh, like all the DMs of just like, I can't believe you, you did this with this cuisine. And like, I had so many people reach out to me from different cultures, like from Venezuela, like, I can't believe you made a cachapa. Never thought I'd see that on a competition, like, can't believe you did pone for the finale, like, can't believe, can't believe you did pepper pot. Like, just so many cultures. And it was really great to kind of see everyone kind of come together and say,

• 15:34Speaker 01

  like, thank you for representing me. And like, no, like, there isn't just like a bunch of agents and like managers and people lining up and like throwing deals at you and stuff like, you know, it's, it starts off with this like, hey, can you make an appearance? Like, hey, can you come? Like, you know, other chefs being like, let's do like a dinner together, which is honestly the funnest part. Like, you know, it's just like cooking with your friends that you were cooking against the entire time, cooking with chefs that you've always wanted to be around, uh, cooking with past season people and like, you know, bringing those worlds together. But like, yeah, I don't know if people think that like as soon as like episode one or episode

• 16:16Speaker 01

  14 airs that like all of a sudden you're like a demigod and like the culinary scene like, you know, it takes a second.

• 16:23Joe Flamm?

  You only fly private now and you know, it's just, yeah.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Right? Like we just have like, you know, like air, air, like, I don't know, air frying pan that we just fly through and like, I, I don't know, like, I mean, I think the best thing is we probably eat really well afterwards, right? Like, we're no like, you know, we're not, we're not short of probably good dinners. But I mean,

• 16:50Joe Flamm?

  But it is, it is a wild experience because it's like, you know, whatever day of the week it is when you're like filming. It's like you win Top Chef like on a Wednesday night, you know what I mean? At 1 a.m. And it was like, I was still, I was running someone else's kitchen at the time. So I was like, I won Top Chef Tuesday night. Me and Adrienne went out and partied Wednesday with everyone. Like I was back at work on Thursday, like running. After being gone for two months and everybody just being like, so what the fuck, man? You know, where have you been? And it's like, oh, yeah.

• 17:20Adrienne Cheatham?

  It's like get back in the kitchen.

• 17:22Joe Flamm?

  Like, so I'd like sent everybody out and I was like, listen, I left, I went and filmed Top Chef. I can't tell you anything else. If you've had any questions, if I can't answer them, I will answer them. I go, but we're not going to talk about this all day, every day. You'd ask me what I won, we'll talk about it. But it was like, and then it was just like, I worked all summer and then they didn't announce it. Like they didn't announce we were on the season till like the fall. So it was just kind of like sitting around like, this is weird. Like, you know, like I know this thing is coming and nobody else does. And I'm just like, go to work, go in the farmer's market. You know what I mean?

• 17:53Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  I remember I did an event, I think I was in Florida and I was like helping like in Boca or something. And I was like doing, I was doing a favor for, for Marcus. And like it was a sponsored event by like Kraft or something like that. And there was like a Taco Bell thing. And I was just like sitting there making 150 Crunchwrap Supremes. And I was like, man, I won Top Chef and I'm fucking making like Crunchwrap Supremes right now. Right? Like James Beard nominee, like winner of Top Chef and I'm making Crunchwrap Supremes and handing them out to people like.

• 18:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  Crushing it right now.

• 18:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's the part that people don't see.

• 18:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:32Joe Flamm?

  It, it is. Yeah. And I think like you nailed it. It's like, everybody thinks it's like, oh yeah, you won and that there's a million of these and a million of that. And it's like, no, it's like, it's like you want, and I think like, I think you stated it so well. Like, I think everyone expects there's a validation of winning of like, oh, you're Top Chef. So now you're this level. And I don't think like, if you're looking for the validation there, it's not going to come. The validation is those people reaching out and being like, hey, what you did was awesome. Or I loved your story and that, and you being like. All the work I've been doing on cooking and being able to try to tell my story through food or tell a story through food, like, people do want to hear it. And I think that's like, the greatest piece of validation you get from it. Of like, this dream that, you

• 19:13Joe Flamm?

  know, I think, we all had of like, opening our own restaurant one day, doing our own thing, and having that platform to be like, oh, people want this, right? Because like, always in the back of your head, you got to convince yourself that like, I'm gonna open something, like, people are gonna show up. Like, people are gonna want to eat my food, right? Like, hopefully, every day for a super long time. And I think that's the one, you know, really big thing about, you know, going to Top Chef and winning Top Chef, where it gives you that, that, that big boost of like, okay, I'm not the only one who wants to see this. I'm not the only one who wants to eat this. I'm not the only one who, you know, is interested in what I'm doing. Yeah, thinks it's important.

• 19:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  It's such a great platform to put out different types of cuisine and show a unique perspective, even if it's something that people may have seen a little bit before. Nobody has your background, Joe, or your background, Tristan, to be able to bring all the pieces together in that way. And it is really validating for people to say like, oh, you were doing this, but you changed it. This is like, you have a distinct style. You have a distinct point of view. And it is so validating when people are like, I was so excited to see that. You did spoon bread with seared chicken. Oh, my God. Like, that was like, I would have never thought I saw somebody do spoon bread on Top Chef. It's

• 20:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  like, you know, that is such a cool feeling to know that people connect with it. And it makes them feel like their culture and their food is just as good and just as serious as any other cuisine.

• 20:45Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 20:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  The other thing that I like to ask, and Joe and I have talked about before, is what is some advice that you wish you had gotten going into Top Chef?

• 20:56Joe Flamm?

  So I, the advice that...

• 20:59Speaker 01

  I got, I, I, I think I got the advice that I needed, but I would say the advice that I wish more people know is to keep yourself active, like keep yourself like to work out. Like any shot you get was to like, to work out. And because right, like, I don't know, I mean, I think everybody by now knows, like, we don't have shit. Like, like you're in complete solitary confinement, like, and, and you guys were like roomies. Like you guys had roommates, like you guys lived together. You were in that era, like, I, I was lucky to have.

• 21:35Joe Flamm?

  I was, I was on an Ikea bunk bed on the bottom bunk.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  You know, I, I was lucky enough to, you know, my season was lucky enough to have, like, we all had our own apartments, which was good and bad, right? Like, so you were, you know, after a day of adrenaline, you just get thrown into a room and you're just like, all right, now go to your room by yourself. And you're like, but I have so much to say.

• 22:00Joe Flamm?

  I don't want to go to my room.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  I have so much to say and so much to do and like, I just like, you don't have the normal wind down thing. So it was like, learning to like, take care of your body and, and work out or do something active, something to like, bring yourself down when you don't have everything was like a really good advice that I was given and that I used. I've never stretched so much in my life, you know? Uh, also going to the gym, there was a TV in there and ESPN was always playing. So I use that a lot as an excuse to go to the gym.

• 22:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's smart, that's smart.

• 22:34Joe Flamm?

  They wouldn't take us, there wasn't a gym since we were all living in a house. Uh, so Adrian and I, we had another system of saying, Sharp, when we were out there, where after the cameras left, we would just drink, uh, bottles of wine till two or three in the morning. Um, to keep us like.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  They put a limit on us.

• 22:52Adrienne Cheatham?

  It's a real good stretch of the arm.

• 22:55Joe Flamm?

  Super, just like, we just kept us dialed, you know what I mean? Just kept us super, super dialed.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  25 ounce curls.

• 23:02Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, you know what I mean? Kept our faces nice and puffy for the next morning.

• 23:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  Hell, yeah.

• 23:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  But that's true. I hadn't thought about being in your own apartment. It's like, on one hand, that's awesome to have your own space and not have to like be around everybody. But it is nice to have that little bit of time to decompress together and have somebody to kind of like vent. It's like after a shift in a kitchen, you want to like vent. Like Tristan, we used to go out for drinks sometimes after work. And it's like, you need to get it off your chest. And like, can you believe this? This happened? You know, it's like, oh, man, you need that moment with other people. Otherwise, you're just sulking in it.

• 23:41Joe Flamm?

  I will say the awesome thing about it was too, we lived in the house. It's like when we would hang out, like post cameras, it was like, so there were no cameras, no phone, no anything. So people were telling crazy stories because it was like, nobody's going to remember this. You can't look it up. You can't write it down. So I could tell.

• 23:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  It's not going to make any edits.

• 23:57Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, like it was like, you know, there was no more truthful things and like wild things that I've ever heard that like 1am was sitting on the floor of that Top Chef house, you know, drinking wine with Adrienne and a couple of the other people. Whereas it's just like, doesn't matter. You can't figure out who these people are we're talking about because you have no way of looking it up and you won't see your phone for another month and a half. So it was just like, it was some wild times.

• 24:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, that was, that was awesome.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  No, we just got thrown, we just got thrown into a room. And once again, it was nice. Like, you know, we could cook for ourselves. It was, it was, it was really cool. And I kind of use that a little bit to my advantage a lot. But I mean, I, and, and you know what? I could like use my CPAP in there by like with no judgment, you know, like no one's like, like just, I could choose whether to snore or sleep in silence that night and just like look like Darth Vader with like no one like that shyness of just like.

• 24:52Adrienne Cheatham?

  Before Top Chef, I had no idea that so many people use CPAPs. We had, we put all the CPAP users in one room. They were all.

• 25:01Joe Flamm?

  I was in the, I was in the CPAP user room and I wasn't out of CPAP. But they were like, you know, I remember Tyler making a comment at some point. He's like, you gotta be like, he's just like, you just check it out.

• 25:11Speaker 01

  Give it, give it time.

• 25:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  Are you on a CPAT now, Jeff?

• 25:15Joe Flamm?

  I was, and then I got a, I went to like one of those nose places. I did the reverse, you know, where they shove a balloon up your nose and then they break your nose from the inside out.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  Oh, that seems fun.

• 25:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, my God.

• 25:27Joe Flamm?

  It's the best thing I've ever done. I would not recommend it more. If you're a CPAT guy, change your life, bro. Change your life.

• 25:37Joe Flamm?

  It hurts like hell.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  Such a dichotomy of a, of a.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 25:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right, that's, that's something to think about, you know?

• 25:47Speaker 01

  That's an endorsement. That is an endorsement.

• 25:50Joe Flamm?

  I'm telling you, my dad did it, that he was like, you gotta do it. It's the best thing. I did it, I've never looked back, man. Putting you on something, putting you on something here.

• 26:07Adrienne Cheatham?

  So Tristan, another thing that we've talked about caused a little bit of controversy, but we talked about is Michelin racist or cuisinist? Because so many amazing chefs, amazing cuisines and amazing restaurants have not gotten the same recognition as traditional European-based fine dining. What is your take on that?

• 26:28Speaker 01

  I think that we are trained to not look at Caribbean food, African food. I mean, just certain cultures with, with a GDP that we don't really love.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  We don't look at that as food that is, you know, of the same value. And I mean, if we take it back, right? Like at a point, Michelin didn't respect Japanese food. It took them forever to allow Japanese food to go in because the service is completely different, right? Like you're handing somebody something with your hand and like, you know, there isn't all the like table settings, there isn't the same wine service, there isn't like the guy with his hand behind his back, standing next to you, being silent, like creepy wise. People have this, you know, had this misconception of.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  If you eat it with your hands, then it isn't Michelin. If you eat it with some sticks, it's not Michelin. If the origin of this, this food comes out of a to-go box or on a banana leaf, it's not Michelin. And I think that as we are slowly making more and more waves, I think we're being taken more seriously, but still slightly being held back to the fear of how much further can I take it? And still, you know, be taken seriously. We're doing great at the upscale casual now. Like fantastic, like a little bit, right? Like, we went from like, you know, I, growing up, I never saw any sort of black food

• 28:03Speaker 01

  outside of a to-go box or at my house. You wanted Jamaican food, it came in a to-go box. You wanted Trinidadian food, it came in a to-go box. You wanted something like, it came in a to-go box. For so many people, Chinese food came into go boxes, you know, like all of these things. And so, you know, then we started working at places like, you know, like at Rooster, where we were doing black food, but it was still pretty upscale casual. You know, casual and like, our fear was like, we can't really go further than that right now. Like, or can we, or will we be taken seriously? Like, we're hitting it right now and like, people like our vibe and people like our, our food. But like, will they take that seriously?

• 28:45Speaker 01

  You know, in the end, are people saying like, man, I can't wait to take you on a date to a, you know, an African restaurant, a Caribbean restaurant? Like, no, it's still like, I'm gonna take you to a French restaurant, Italian restaurant, or a steakhouse. And I think that there's still a little bit and we still wanna like, take the leap a little further. But I mean, I mean, look, like, I, I'll say like, one of the biggest things that were robbed was Dakar not getting a Michelin star in New Orleans, right? Like, like, why? How? How? Make it make sense. Make it make sense. How?

• 29:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  I've eaten there like three, four times and every time I'm like, how did they not get a Michelin star? Like what?

• 29:33Speaker 01

  I love that Michelin is changing and there's, you know, there's, you know, it's becoming more open. There's Mexican, there's Thai, there's different Indian Michelin stars, right? I mean, I live in Texas. We have barbecue Michelin stars.

• 29:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  Which is, you know, a whole nother, a whole nother conversation on it. And while I'm happy those changes are happening, I, I don't, I find it weird that like somewhere that I can wait in line outside and die of dehydration and then eat on a quarter sheet tray, a perfectly flat one, by the way. Love that part.

• 30:08Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. You're like, I want to take this shit with me.

• 30:11Speaker 01

  I will, I will take that as a to go.

• 30:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Those have never been warped.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  Those have never, I don't know how they're doing it, but like.

• 30:19Joe Flamm?

  Just rubbing the bottom of it. You're just like.

• 30:22Adrienne Cheatham?

  You're like, wait, really?

• 30:25Joe Flamm?

  It's hot out here. Woo.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  So many pavés I can make on this thing. Um, like, you know, like be served in a paper cup, be told that something is 86th on like, you know, like.

• 30:38Joe Flamm?

  And 3pm on a Tuesday.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  At 3pm on a Tuesday, but someone, you know, at Dakar, like with custom made dishes and like procured everything, like spices being flown in, how like that can't win a Michelin star?

• 30:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  That's, that's.

• 30:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  Local produce, local seafood.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:58Joe Flamm?

  There's no consistency of it. You know what I mean? It's so all over the place and it's just, and I think like, you know, the interesting thing you said too, it's like now seeing like, you know, I feel like the, the Indian food movement like blew up in New York and then it started to spread. And I think that's a lot of food in the US, right? Like things blow up in New York. And I think now with like, you know, how that's blown up for African Caribbean food in New York. And now I feel like in New Orleans and now it's, you know, Indian food. I felt like that's blown up in Chicago the last five years of like the 590 Indian movement, you know, the more higher end stuff. So I'm hoping, you know what I mean? We're only a couple of years behind getting some of these incredible restaurants. You know what I mean? Maybe you need to come to Chicago, Tristan, is what I'm saying, dude.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  It's too cold.

• 31:41Joe Flamm?

  Come on, it's not that cold.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  I live a tropics lifestyle.

• 31:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  It's only cold eight months out of the year.

• 31:47Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. You just get like a lot of, a lot of coats.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  I went to Boston in the beginning of the year and I had to buy a coat to go upstairs.

• 31:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh my gosh.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  I've lived in Florida and Texas.

• 31:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  You lived in New York for a long time.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  I did and I let that go.

• 32:04Joe Flamm?

  Just, you get over the cold, it's fine.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Now I'm a seasonal, I'm a seasonal New York like visitor now.

• 32:11Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, nice.

• 32:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  So is that, is that part of what made you choose Houston? Because you're working on an upcoming restaurant that is slated to be in Houston. Is that part of the selection? Or what attracted you to Houston for the opening of your restaurant?

• 32:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, so I moved to New York from Houston after meeting Marcus and I loved it there. It was big, it's loud, I mean, the city smells good. And I mean, depending on what part of town you are, it's just a complete like authentic experience and lots of food. Between Indian, West African, obviously like Hispanic, largest Vietnamese population outside of Vietnam. Like it is, I mean, it's, it's so good. And there's also no zoning there, so you can like literally open a restaurant wherever you want. But Houston has such diversity and I have found such an amazing support system there.

• 33:07Speaker 01

  Of everyone just like, hey, come cook with me, hey, come do this, like, hey, let's do this mashup of Burmese and Trinidadian. Like, like there is no gatekeeping, there's none of that, like it's just been really, really amazing. And I've worked in a lot of like amazing cities, you know, like there's been Denver, there was the New York, there's been the Miami, there's all of that. And like all of those scenes were great, but I've just found like the amalgamation of everything I'm looking for without having to freeze my ass off in Chicago or New York. Has been, has been Houston.

• 33:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  Wow, because yeah, when you were nominated for a beard award, you were in Miami at the time.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  And I thought you were going to stay there for a while and then, nope.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  No.

• 33:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Onto the next.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  The plan was always to come back to Houston. It's just like the support of Houston has been so amazing. So that's where I ended up wanting to be.

• 33:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  Another thing that I found wildly interesting Tristan is we know you from living like your mom was in the military, so you lived in over 18 countries and that's even before you started traveling for working as a professional chef. So you have this immense diverse background of experiencing and being fully immersed in all these different cultures, but your first restaurant job was at McDonald's.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  McDonald's.

• 34:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  Mickey B's, the golden arches.

• 34:31Speaker 01

  That is.

• 34:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  What about that experience left an impact on you to make you want to continue and push farther in the culinary space?

• 34:41Speaker 01

  You know, like I was McDonald's was my first place where like I realized what a rush was like there was this like cool synergy and I'm also like a really big sports person. So like I loved the structure, like the team structure thing. We used to like race to see who can make the most amount of burgers because it was like a double sided line. I just loved it. And so like the work ethic is what it really taught me, like a sense of urgency is what it taught me like I took the word fast food, like the term fast food very seriously. And so like to me, it was like, how much faster can I make this double cheeseburger? And how fast can I clear this board? And I like fell in love with it.

• 35:25Speaker 01

  Like I volunteered to open, I volunteered to close and I was in high school when I started this. So like I would ask to open for like an hour, go to school and then come back later that night after like practice or something to like work again, like just the work ethic. It was, it was such an amazing thing, like mise en place goes hard in McDonald's, right? Like everything's like sectioned off, everything is timed, everything is like listed, like standards were amazing and it just taught me a lot. It taught me a ton and I was addicted.

• 35:59Joe Flamm?

  You think they'd let us come back and like stage for a night like if we were like, go back and kick it. Like I think it was like, I always like, I'm like, maybe this is just like my own complete and total insanity. But you ever like go by a fast food place and you're like, I just want to come like banging out with these guys on a Friday night, like crushing like a pickup window.

• 36:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  I think about that for Taco Bell.

• 36:18Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, Taco Bell all the time. There's a Taco Bell at 95th and Ashland by my house and I'm like, I want to slang a Saturday night with this crew so bad because I know it's just wild. I know there's mad shit going on. I know the drama that's happening inside these four walls is electric and elite and I want to just, I want to be a part of it for a night.

• 36:35Adrienne Cheatham?

  I want in.

• 36:36Joe Flamm?

  I'm gonna show up at the back door and just knock. You know what I mean? Like it's 1982 and I'm in France.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  I want to do the same, not necessarily fast food because like, I don't know. I don't know. I feel like I still got it, you know? It's like, I might be a little weak on my rapping, but I think I, I think I still kind of got it a little bit. But like, I want to like, challenge myself. Like I remember going to like Chelsea Market and watching the people from like Los Tacos numero uno and be like, can I handle that line? Like that's what I want to do. From like tortillas to grilling to chopping to like, like everything and just like having a hundred people scream in your face saying like, no onion, no this. Like, like, that's the line I want to work. Cause every time I go there, I was like, you're, you're all hired. Just, yeah. Every single one of you. Like, I want to see if I have it on like that line and see if I can like bang it out on those.

• 37:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  So Tristan, another thing that I, I kind of want to get into a little bit with you. When we worked together, it was for Marcus Samuelsson. So I do feel like with black chefs, all roads lead to Marcus at some point. Like.

• 37:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  All roads converge at the Marcus Samuelsson point, cross paths. But that's like the godfather of black chefs in the country. It's either have to work for him or something. It's just, it's a mandatory part of your career.

• 38:07Joe Flamm?

  Or someone who worked for him.

• 38:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  How did you, because if I'm not mistaken, you met Marcus when you competed on a TV show, right?

• 38:18Speaker 01

  I did, yeah.

• 38:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  So tell us a little bit about that.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  So I'll first say that I was extremely lucky. So I saw Marcus a long time ago as a culinary student. And I was just like, oh dope, this is a black dude. And he's like in a chef jacket and like not a white one either. Like it's like, like he has a beard. He like back then, back then, when he wanted to rock the goatee and like the connection. You know, he's wearing like not a white chef, like, and he's way, and he's making something other than soul food, which is crazy because now that's all he's obsessed with making. But like, like, you know, like then he was making like Swedish food and then like barely touch an African at that time, you know?

• 38:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  And I thought it was amazing. So I looked up to it and then, you know, watched him do Top Chef Masters and watched him do all of these things. And the Bourdain specials on him and all of this stuff. And so I was like, man, I want to work for that man one day. And so the only reason why I even attempted to like go on the taste other than Nigella Lawson was Marcus. And then I got on there and then I, you know, did decent. And then he offered me a job and then I started working for him. And that was like such a crazy experience. So, you know, what he has done and what he wants to do for a lot of black chefs is super amazing.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  So there's like no reason why it doesn't, that pathway doesn't go, you know, through him some way. Uh, I mean, he's like, I don't know, like a Pokemon master or like, he's just gotta like catch them all, release them, like send them off to battle other people. Like it's, he, he just does that. I don't know. He's just got this way. I mean, he calls me still and he's like, all right, who's the next one?

• 40:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes, I told Joe.

• 40:08Joe Flamm?

  Dude, Adrian literally said that to me yesterday. We were talking on the phone and she's like, and I was like, what's like, what's up with that? It's just like, like, it seems like everybody. She's like, he literally just called me and be like, who's the next one?

• 40:20Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 40:21Joe Flamm?

  Like, who do I, like, where are they? I'm gonna go find them.

• 40:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  Who do I need to know about?

• 40:24Joe Flamm?

  I'm gonna get my Pokemon Go ball and I'm gonna get out of play.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And the sad part is like, when I have to tell them, like, I was like, I think you have them all. And like,

• 40:35Joe Flamm?

  He's like, I don't have a Charizard! Screaming on the phone.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  I was like, man, like, I think you have them all. And in a way, I'm like, happy. And in another way, I was like, well, damn, we need more. I gotta go find more too, like.

• 40:48Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's crazy. I've met Marcus when I was in culinary school and he did a talk. This was when ICE was still on 23rd Street. And he did a talk. I was in the work-study program. And, you know, it was just, it was so different. He was just starting to explore Ethiopian cuisine at that time. And it was so cool to see like, wow, this guy is like a serious chef. He's black and, you know, of African origin and has worked around the world. So he was pulling in all these different, worked in France, worked in Germany, you know, worked on cruise ships. So he was bringing in all these really cool cultural influences. But I never thought that I would cross paths with him again until I was already living in Harlem.

• 41:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  He won Top Chef Masters and then Red Rooster was about to open. And I used to hang out at this little French bistro next door. And I was like, yep. And there was, construction was happening on the space that Red Rooster was in. And I used to go to the 24 Hour Planet Fitness across the street and have a beer at Chez Lucienne. And I was like, well, nobody's manning the construction door. Let me just walk around here and see what's going on. And then I found out who the chef was, who was gonna be opening it. And I was like, oh, my God, that's that guy that I met. This is so awesome. And it's only a few blocks from my house. Why am I going all the way to Midtown and all this? So I was like, let me wait a couple of years, get some more experience under my belt. And then hopefully, like, one day, I'll be able to work here.

• 42:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  And I never thought that I would be like the EC of that restaurant or, you know, like, working with such incredible people. That was the first time I worked in a kitchen that was black. Honestly, it was the first time I worked in a kitchen of

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Same.

• 42:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  Majority black people and it was such a cool experience.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  It, I mean, it changed the whole way how I like dealt with kitchens. It, it just, I turned from this like meek, yes chef, no chef, absolutely chef. Let, let me clean this up for you chef. Like, like this like meek individual to like, like healthily cursing out people with respect, like learning a whole new way. I mean, like, remember working with Kingsley? Like it, it was like

• 43:03Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh my God. Yes.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  Never worked with something like that. Like it's just this insane man.

• 43:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  He is like a ball of kinetic energy and he had super long dreads and he would just get so wound up during service and he would get everybody pumped up and he would just be like yelling and I was just like, what did I walk into? Like,

• 43:31Adrienne Cheatham?

  I'm used to like quiet kitchens and then you've got the live music over here. So you're like screaming the orders, the tickets to each other because you literally can't hear. It's so loud in the dining.

• 43:42Joe Flamm?

  And then where it's like, no one's spoken in hours.

• 43:47Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes, I would. It got to the point. It was just like, okay, sleeves get rolled up, bandana gets tied on. I think for New Year's, one year I, I expoed in high heels just to prove that I could. It was, it was crazy.

• 44:01Joe Flamm?

  The high plates or?

• 44:02Adrienne Cheatham?

  Uh, yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. The top of the wood fire of the open hearth oven. I was like, I can't get up there.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. Adrian would work saute and we'd have to reach like, we had this like big chowder dish and it took like two, like 14 inch saute pans, like one to cook it in and one to lid it. And when Adrian would have to work saute, like someone would have to reach the top saute pans to bring it down for every single time one came in.

• 44:30Adrienne Cheatham?

  I was like, just pass it to me. I don't need anything else, but I just need you to pass me that pan, please?

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Just give me the pan and maybe one for the next order too.

• 44:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right. Cause you know what else are you gonna do? Jump up on the, on the cooktop to reach it? No. But yeah, those were crazy times and Kingsley was such, he's such a dope individual who's worked at like Charlie Trotters and worked for Marcus at Aquavide. Yeah. Like he is a legend that nobody knows about. And he is just like, one of the coolest people who taught me so much about like Caribbean cuisine when I got to work with him there. And then he would disappear in the middle of service and I'd have to go get him from the bar.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  Just gone.

• 45:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  I'm like chef, we're not, we're not done.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  This man disappeared for six months on me.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Like I'll be there at nine AM and I was like, where are you? And he's like, I'm in London, my man, my man. You wouldn't believe what happened. Marcus called me, I had to go to London. I'll be right back. I'll be there next week. Six months later, he's just like.

• 45:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh man, he was like a culinary mercenary. I love him.

• 45:39Speaker 01

  But yeah, it was a cool kitchen. St. Lucian, it was tons of Africans. I mean, I mean, I did Ramadan with people like it was, it was such a kitchen, right? Like.

• 45:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah. We used to do iftar meals for the staff who was observing Ramadan. So they could take, it's like, okay, all sous chefs cover a station. So the people who have been observing Ramadan can go downstairs and have a meal together. Yeah, that's such, that's such a cool cultural experience. And I think you're, I hadn't thought about how quiet and meek and like intense I was before, but this was a place where like that intensity could be like said out loud. And I remember like, yeah, tie on that bandana, jump up and down, scream orders of people, run up and down the line, jump on fry. Wow. Crazy times.

• 46:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  All right Tristan, there is a segment that we cannot skip, no matter who the guest is. And this is one of me and Joe's favorite segments. We like to call this one walk-in confession. So we know the Tristan Epps that worked in all these fabulous Michelin-starred restaurants. We know the Tristan Epps that won Top Chef, but Tristan Epps, as a youngin', give us a walk-in confession, something that you have not told anybody.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  There is also Tristan Epps the thief and Tristan Epps the manipulator of reservations.

• 47:15Speaker 01

  So I don't, I mean, I don't think it's like this anymore, but back, back in the day, like, as of like a line cook, you weren't like allowed to touch protein. Like it was like only sous chefs and the chefs like, like, cause they were too afraid to like mess it up or anything like that. And you're like, well, how am I going to learn to butcher fish if I can't touch it? Right? Like, like only the sous chefs broke down lobsters and all this. And it's funny because at Rooster, we just gave it to like, you, you do it. I don't want to touch these lobs. Like, please, anybody do it. So I was like, man, how am I going to get better? So from like every job until I was basically a manager, I used to steal all my prep. Like I would, I would like steal prep to take it home and do it. So I didn't have to like waste like

• 47:59Speaker 01

  picking peas or I would steal fish, like whole fish to like learn how to break it down and then try to bring it back in or, or whatever I could. And I did that pretty much until I got caught coming out of a job and I just had lamb racks and fava beans and morels and all sorts of stuff in my backpack. And then I got caught at the like door because they would like sometimes do random bag checks, walking out of this resort. And I had to like explain that I wasn't like, I was going to bring it back.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  Like, I promise I'm gonna bring it back.

• 48:39Joe Flamm?

  You gotta count the boats. I'm gonna bring it all back. I'm gonna bring it all back.

• 48:43Speaker 01

  I'm just like in the shits for tomorrow. This is like how I have to, I like, I just need to do this. And so like I had to sit in this like in HR and I had to do all these things of just like me continuing to explain that like, I can't fuck up tomorrow. I have to get my show plates up, like all these, I can't sit there and pick fava beans and then shell them twice, like.

• 49:04Joe Flamm?

  Having to sit in HR and explain that you're not a bad person, that you're just a shitty line cook is like fucking wild level stuff right there.

• 49:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes. Like, I promise I'm not stealing. These fava beans are coming back just out of the pod and out of their skin tomorrow.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. But I think my worst confession, I'll give you a two for really quick, is I think my 21st birthday, I was working and I really needed to, I needed to leave. I wanted to go drink. Let's be real. I was turning 24, 21. I wanted to go, like, we still had tables. I knew the day before, like, we were getting, like, tables. So I actually went into open table, booked the last 10 tables myself, so that we wouldn't have any more, we wouldn't have any reservations. So I could leave earlier. I had to make all of this stuffing for this quail that we were doing, made the quail stuffing,

• 50:01Speaker 01

  like a big batch, didn't cool it down on sheet trays, just put a lid on it, put it in the fridge, manipulated the system, walked out, went and got drunk. And then the next day, there was a thermometer in the stuffing. It was still at 100 degrees. They found, they found out that like I was the one who manipulated the system because all of a sudden, you know, 10 tables canceled. Because stupidly, I used my, I used my friend's name as the reservation. And then he came in to dinner the next day.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  Under his own name. And so I was like, yeah, so I got caught.

• 50:39Joe Flamm?

  They were like, why did you cancel 10 reservations?

• 50:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  He's like, what do you mean?

• 50:45Speaker 01

  Knowing that now, that's detrimental.

• 50:47Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. Brooke, can you imagine if someone that did that to you now? Can you imagine a line cook doing that to you now?

• 50:54Speaker 01

  I mean, I, after the initial, like, I'd kill, I'd kill them, but I'd also be like, fair play. But we also charge for reservations now. So like,

• 51:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  True. Can't really do that nowadays.

• 51:02Joe Flamm?

  They're real committed now. Now they're like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna eat like 500 bucks on this just to go out early on my birthday. It's like,

• 51:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:10Joe Flamm?

  You know, Gen Z, you know, they don't party like we partied. So, you know, that's different, man. They're not committed to the game like we were.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  No, but they will pay $500 to not work. I do believe that.

• 51:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh God, we got two and those are both.

• 51:29Joe Flamm?

  Bangers. Absolute bangers.

• 51:33Joe Flamm?

  That's incredible, dude.

• 51:35Adrienne Cheatham?

  Thank you for sharing that.

• 51:36Joe Flamm?

  Thanks for your time. Thanks for the stories. It was great chopping it up with you, dude.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me, guys. I appreciate it. Love the show.

• 51:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's it for this episode of The Chef's Cut. Be sure to subscribe wherever you're listening, especially if you're watching us on YouTube, where you can get full-length videos of every episode. And be sure to follow us at @chefscutpod on IG. For Joe Flamm, I'm Adrian Cheatham, and this has been The Chef's Cut. Life beyond the past.