My Mistress Thinks I’m Cheating on Her

🔥 Microhabits for a Better Marriage. Download the Together app. On today’s episode, we hear about: A man whose mistress doesn’t trust him A wife who disagrees with her husband regarding circumcision A father wondering how much input his teenagers should have on an impending family move Next Steps: ❤️ Get away with your spouse today! 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: Head to Beam and use code DELONY for an exclusive discount—because better sleep, energy, and focus start tonight. Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Get an exclusive offer with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Go to Dutch Pet and use code DELONY to get $50 off a year of vet care. Go love your pets! Visit Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! Working knives for working people—Go to Montana Knife Company to see what’s available now! Explore Poncho Outdoors! Get 25% off your order at Thorne.  Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  My life's been a little bit of a mess, to be honest. I've divorced twice and I'm currently living with the lady that I cheated with on my second marriage. And at the end of the day, I know inside that I don't, I don't love her. Do you try to heal this and make it work?

• 0:29Dr. John Delony?

  What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show.

• 0:35Dr. John Delony?

  Glad that you're here, glad that you pulled up a seat and you're gonna be with us trying to figure out what's the next right move. Real people with real challenges going on in their lives, big ones, small ones. It's all kind of chaos out there. And so I'm trying to be a voice of calm in the madness and peel back all the insanity and figure out what's the next right move. I'd love to have you on the show. Go to johndeloney.com/ask and we'll help you figure out what's the next right move. Let's go to Richmond, Virginia. Let's talk to Team Edward. What's up Edward?

• 1:09Speaker 00

  Yes, sir. Thank you for having me, John. It's good to talk to you.

• 1:12Dr. John Delony?

  You too, my man. I appreciate you calling. What's up?

• 1:15Speaker 00

  Yes, sir. Well, my life's been a little bit of a mess, to be honest. And I could go into details or whatever, but I've divorced twice and I'm currently living with the lady that I cheated with on my second marriage. I've been with her now for almost two years. And at the end of the day, I know inside that I don't, I don't love her. It's been, it's, it's hard to put into words because I've never talked about this before.

• 1:49Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. I appreciate you being honest.

• 1:52Speaker 00

  I feel like my whole life's been a little bit of a struggle with, you know,

• 1:57Speaker 00

  alcohol and stuff to cope with. And I've never really formed a relationship like that I should have with my, with the people I've been with.

• 2:09Speaker 00

  And I don't know at the moment, I, I, I don't know whether to end this and spend some time working on myself. Or is this a place where you've already destroyed two other people's lives in the past? Do you try to heal this and make it work? Or move on?

• 2:33Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, man.

• 2:36Dr. John Delony?

  It's a pretty loaded question.

• 2:39Speaker 00

  Yes, sir.

• 2:39Dr. John Delony?

  Here's a couple of things I'm hearing, okay?

• 2:42Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:42Dr. John Delony?

  You, you tell me, brother, you tell me like, hey, you're off on this one, okay?

• 2:45Speaker 00

  No, you're fine.

• 2:47Dr. John Delony?

  Thing number one is

• 2:50Dr. John Delony?

  feeling in love is a thing I'm never going to base any decisions on.

• 2:57Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 2:58Dr. John Delony?

  Cause that comes and goes. Love is an action. It's a, it's a series of things I do. And a series of things I receive.

• 3:08Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 3:08Dr. John Delony?

  So.

• 3:09Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 3:09Dr. John Delony?

  You've been with somebody for two years. You don't feel in love right now. That's just kind of part of the deal. That doesn't mean it's over. That's a Hollywood thing.

• 3:15Speaker 00

  Right.

• 3:15Dr. John Delony?

  If you don't feel it, then it's over. That's, that's not true.

• 3:19Dr. John Delony?

  If you know

• 3:24Dr. John Delony?

  I, this, like, let me answer this way.

• 3:29Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 3:29Dr. John Delony?

  No, don't stay in a relationship just because you don't want to hurt somebody's feelings. That's disrespectful and dishonoring.

• 3:35Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 3:36Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 3:37Speaker 00

  Um, if I could give you a little backstory on some of this.

• 3:40Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 3:41Speaker 00

  Like I, I was in my previous marriage for 14, well, we were together 14 years, but we were only married for like five, I think. But, um, I had been in an unhealthy place when I got into that relationship and a lot of just drinking and stuff led us together and, you know. Spent, we, we got together, we lived together and all this. Well, during that time, I was trying to work on myself and I found, um, I found healing through, through trail running. Okay. And I started about seven years ago, running, running, running, and it seemed to clear my mind and it seemed like I was able to step away from some of the, the addictions and

• 4:20Speaker 00

  stuff that I had. And, you know, for, towards the end of there, even for two years, uh, almost two years, I actually was able to even go completely sober. No alcohol, no nothing. So, the problem I found was that my partner that I was with at the time was unhealthy and not really into any of that stuff. And we grew apart because I didn't try to focus on bringing her, I didn't focus on her, I focused on me, you know? And even though I was finding that healing, our relationship was falling apart. And I had so-called friends that were telling me, hey, man, you know, look at all you've done for yourself. And,

• 5:03Speaker 00

  you know, your wife ain't a part of that. You know, you deserve better. You deserve this. You deserve that. And I let it get in my head. And met someone, you know, caught my eye, I caught their eye, cheated, turned around, left my wife, divorced her, moved this lady in with me. And now, you know, it's like, I don't know, it's like everything's changed. It's like, barely run or anything anymore now because she's afraid that I will leave her because that's why I left the first time was because I was out hanging out with other people and stuff. And it's like, the one

• 5:45Speaker 00

  thing in my life that had kept me somewhat better was somewhat took away from me now. And I found myself going right back to the old habits of, well, I just go home and have a beer. You know what I mean? And just

• 5:58Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, but I don't think that's why you quit running.

• 6:01Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 6:02Dr. John Delony?

  I think you quit running because you don't respect yourself anymore.

• 6:05Speaker 00

  Uh, you're right about that.

• 6:07Dr. John Delony?

  And the only guys I've ever seen get sober and find alternative, um, outlets for

• 6:18Dr. John Delony?

  Inner demons, for lack of better terms, have high, they come to a place where they decide I'm worth living a different life. Right.

• 6:30Dr. John Delony?

  And in the process of you realizing I deserve to live a different life,

• 6:39Dr. John Delony?

  you forgot the for what.

• 6:42Dr. John Delony?

  The reason I work out a lot, the reason I try to keep myself in reasonable shape is so that

• 6:50Dr. John Delony?

  my wife can anchor in, my kids can anchor in, my coworkers can anchor in. Right? Yes. And

• 7:01Dr. John Delony?

  not so that I can, whatever. So you, over time, man, you found a great outlet, you started getting well.

• 7:11Dr. John Delony?

  And instead of getting well so that

• 7:17Dr. John Delony?

  you could be more present, be more stable, be more supportive, whatever, in sickness and in hell.

• 7:25Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, like you said, you let those voices of your idiot friends get in your head and you became somebody. You did things that you as a man don't respect. It's hard to look yourself in the mirror. It's hard to put those shoes back on and go running for a guy that you don't think is worth it.

• 7:40Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And let's be honest, alcohol takes that away. Yep.

• 7:46Dr. John Delony?

  And so the choice you have in front of you right now is not about her. It's about

• 7:54Dr. John Delony?

  will you forgive the man who screwed up? Who blew his life up and somebody else's life up? And will you choose to take the actions to become a man that you respect again?

• 8:07Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. So that.

• 8:12Dr. John Delony?

  You can be a net positive to those in your home, in your community, and in your, in the world around you.

• 8:20Dr. John Delony?

  But that starts with you looking in the mirror and saying, "I'm worth, I'm worth the fight." Because you know how hard it's gonna be to get back in shape. You know it's gonna, how hard it is to ache and pain, all that kind of stuff. And alcohol just makes it go away for a minute.

• 8:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, it does. Yep.

• 8:36Dr. John Delony?

  I'm telling you right now, if you were my friend, I would've showed up at your door and said, "Don't do what you're about to do."

• 8:43Speaker 00

  Right.

• 8:43Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? And I'm gonna tell you, it's over. You've done it. I'm a, I would show up to your house now and tell you, "Hey, put your shoes back on. You're worth running for again."

• 8:55Speaker 00

  Right.

• 8:57Speaker 00

  Right.

• 9:00Speaker 00

  Yeah. How do I, how do I put on my shoes and go run again when the person I'm with is,

• 9:12Speaker 00

  like basically if, if, if you do it without me, then you're probably out here cheating on me, kind of attitude.

• 9:18Dr. John Delony?

  Well, she has a lived experience.

• 9:20Speaker 00

  Yes, and that's true.

• 9:21Dr. John Delony?

  She's not crazy. And so, the, the question for you is, I need you to put a path back to trust.

• 9:29Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 9:30Dr. John Delony?

  Because we met through an affair.

• 9:32Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 9:34Dr. John Delony?

  And if she says, "I will never be able to trust you if you're gone on these long marathon runs with these, this other community",

• 9:43Dr. John Delony?

  then you have a choice to make. Am I gonna walk this path and find other outlets? I know that I found one that I didn't see coming, and that was trail running of all things. I'm gonna go find another one because she's worth that.

• 9:54Speaker 00

  Right.

• 9:55Dr. John Delony?

  We are worth that. Or, I'm gonna go ahead and call it. Because trail running is my one thing.

• 10:03Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:03Dr. John Delony?

  And then you have to be a grown man and own that decision.

• 10:09Speaker 00

  I understand.

• 10:12Dr. John Delony?

  But it's asking her, because normally what happens is when people get together in that were like an affair and then they get together, the statistics, the data of them staying together is very, very low percentage.

• 10:27Speaker 00

  Oh, you're a hundred percent right, yes.

• 10:29Dr. John Delony?

  And so the only way to make it work is to have an ironclad path towards trust.

• 10:36Dr. John Delony?

  Because we both started in a lie. And so that just like all relationships, the core foundation, the reason I always tell people, you got to see them and know them and celebrate them, those are things to do to build trust.

• 10:49Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:51Dr. John Delony?

  And so, sitting down and ask, otherwise, what happens is, most of the time, that that finish line just moves all the time.

• 10:57Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 10:58Dr. John Delony?

  And you can never, she'll never trust you.

• 11:00Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 11:00Dr. John Delony?

  There's nothing you, there's not a thing you can do, right, without a plan. You get what I'm saying with that intentionality?

• 11:04Speaker 00

  I do, yes.

• 11:06Dr. John Delony?

  My guess is she's, it has slowly moved and moved and moved. Is that fair?

• 11:11Speaker 00

  Yes, yes, it is.

• 11:13Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Another thing I'll tell you is people often say, I don't trust you, I don't trust you. That's often the only words that people have for the gap they feel when there's distance, even though people are standing right next to each other.

• 11:29Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 11:29Dr. John Delony?

  What I mean by that is, y'all can be sitting on the couch and she knows you're not into her.

• 11:36Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 11:37Dr. John Delony?

  And the only assumption is, he must have somebody else.

• 11:41Speaker 00

  Right.

• 11:41Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 11:42Speaker 00

  Right, yep.

• 11:43Dr. John Delony?

  It might be you with your own demons, it might be when you drink alcohol, your body just vortexes away from you, right? And that's why it feels good to drink. But she's sitting right next to you on the couch and she's grasping at ghosts.

• 11:54Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 11:54Dr. John Delony?

  She feels you, but you're not there.

• 11:56Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 11:58Dr. John Delony?

  And the only logical thing she has in her head is, oh, he's cheating again.

• 12:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's like if I just, if I just pick up my phone for a second, she's like, who are you texting? You know, and stuff like that.

• 12:07Dr. John Delony?

  But that tells me that she doesn't have you.

• 12:11Dr. John Delony?

  She has a shell.

• 12:12Speaker 00

  That's probably true. Yes, sir. That's probably true. I feel like I've never worked on myself to a degree and I've always just.

• 12:20Dr. John Delony?

  I don't think that. No, it's not that. I don't think you've ever gone all in.

• 12:24Speaker 00

  Well, that's a good way to put it. Yeah.

• 12:26Dr. John Delony?

  You have to put both feet in the boat and she's not going to go out to har- she's not going to go- leave the bay and go into the wild ocean. She's- that's why she's still got the whole thing anchored to the dock. Cause you're not all the way in the boat yet.

• 12:37Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 12:38Dr. John Delony?

  And you gotta decide, I'm gonna put both feet in this thing and look at her and say, you know what? You might be able to hurt me.

• 12:49Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 12:50Dr. John Delony?

  And then she's gotta say, yeah, and you, I've- I know for a fact you have the capacity to hurt people badly. And so you might hurt me. And we both have to decide, we're gonna put both feet in this boat and come up with a really intentional plan so that we know without a shadow of a doubt that we're both in the boat at all times.

• 13:08Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 13:09Dr. John Delony?

  And I- I personally don't think it means you have to give up running.

• 13:15Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 13:15Dr. John Delony?

  I- it sounds symptomatic to me.

• 13:18Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 13:19Dr. John Delony?

  It sounds like she is grasping for things to try to reconnect with you.

• 13:23Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 13:25Speaker 00

  That makes sense. It really does.

• 13:28Dr. John Delony?

  So the- the- I- I gotta work on myself. I don't think that's where we start. I think we start with you looking in the mirror and say, I'm worth the work.

• 13:36Dr. John Delony?

  And the work number one is.

• 13:39Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 13:41Dr. John Delony?

  Am I gonna put both feet in my- in the boat of this relationship or am I out? You get to decide. And then yes, you've got work on yourself to do, right? Getting back in shape, getting sober, get with an AA group. You gotta get a group of men around you that will hold you accountable. All that kinda stuff is true. You've been on that road before, you know it. Um, and in fact, you might not have been on the- in- with an accountability group. And if you haven't, you've been white knuckling this whole thing. Trail running in a way is literally running away from that problem. At some point, you're gonna have to face the music and be emotionally vulnerable with a group of people. So I- that's why I'm such a huge fan of AA. I know some people don't like it, but that's why I'm such a huge fan of group programs like that.

• 14:21Dr. John Delony?

  And you look at her and say, I haven't never been fully in this boat and I'm getting both feet in the boat. And here's what I need from you to earn trust. And I'm going to ask you to give me a path to trust for you. And if it's about your phone, cool. You can see it. I don't care. If it's about whatever, cool. But we're going to make that path, or we're going to go our separate ways. But hear me say this, brother. Yeah, you messed up big. You messed up big. And there's a period at the end of that sentence. And now you get to choose right now, who you're going to be and what you're going to do next. And that starts with you look in the mirror and say, I'm worth the work. I'm worth what happens next. And I for one, believe that you are. Thanks for the call,

• 15:05Dr. John Delony?

  homie. Call anytime and I'll sit with you. This is literally what I mean when I say, go do the next right thing. We come back, a woman asks me to settle a debate between her and her husband over infant circumcision. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? It's Deloney. So we're in the middle of Lent right now. And whether you grew up with that tradition, or you're just trying to get your head and your heart back on straight this season, there's something I want you to check out. It's called Hallow. It's the number one Christian prayer and meditation app in the world. And it's honestly become one of the most important things I do to start my day. Anchoring my day in

• 15:46Dr. John Delony?

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• 18:00Dr. John Delony?

  Let's go to Rochester, Minnesota, and talk to Kate. Hey, Kate, what's up?

• 18:06Speaker 02

  Hi, Dr. John. Thank you for talking to me today.

• 18:08Dr. John Delony?

  Of course. Thanks for calling. What's going on?

• 18:11Speaker 02

  Um, hi. So, um, I guess my question is, um, my husband and I want to have more kids, and we find ourselves on opposite sides of something that feels like a deeply held value to both of us.

• 18:26Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 18:28Speaker 02

  And so we're wondering, or I'm wondering if there's some perspective you can help me that maybe I haven't been able to, um...

• 18:38Speaker 02

  To look at myself, or how we can resolve this between us and uh move forward together.

• 18:47Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, it sounds like it's distressing.

• 18:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 18:52Dr. John Delony?

  Wow, okay. So do y'all have kids already?

• 18:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 18:56Dr. John Delony?

  How old are your kids now?

• 18:58Speaker 02

  Uh, they're two and four.

• 18:59Dr. John Delony?

  Two and four, okay.

• 19:01Speaker 02

  Both girls.

• 19:02Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 19:03Speaker 02

  And um, what we're disagreeing on is routine infant circumcision.

• 19:09Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  And so trying to um, plan to have more kids, which we both want, we both came from big families. Um, I don't know, you know, there's no compromise, there's no middle ground on this issue. So we either do it, or we don't. There's no, there's no someone gives a little bit, another person gives a little bit.

• 19:34Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  And we find a happy middle ground.

• 19:36Dr. John Delony?

  So, let me back out again. Um, so you're talking about if we have a third kid, if we roll the dice again, and we have a little boy, one of you wants to circumcise this little boy and one of you does not, right?

• 19:54Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 19:55Dr. John Delony?

  Where was this argument, or this deep-seated challenge with child one and child two?

• 20:01Speaker 02

  Well, um, with child one, it wasn't something we had talked about ahead of time. Like, I go back and think, like, nobody, when you're dating someone, thinking about getting married.

• 20:11Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, no kidding.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  Nobody's asking each other, are we gonna circumcise our kids?

• 20:15Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, that's not in the checklist.

• 20:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, so when we came home from um, an appointment with the midwife at like, I don't know, it was like maybe twenty-five-ish weeks of pregnancy, somewhere around there, was when the midwife asked what our plans were for, if our child was a boy, and that's when um, When we realized that we actually disagreed on this.

• 20:36Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 20:37Speaker 02

  Um, I think maybe we both knew, but we hadn't had a discussion about it before then. And so the remainder of the pregnancy was pretty hard because we were on opposite sides of this issue. Um, but once our daughter was born, we didn't have to, you know, face it with her anymore.

• 20:57Speaker 02

  And then with our second, um, let's see, our first girl was just over a year old when we decided that, you know, we were both feeling ready for another. And you kinda, you kinda let that big question go and the, and the excitement of yeah, let's have another baby. And then once I was pregnant, I didn't sleep. So stressed the whole time, um.

• 21:21Dr. John Delony?

  Well, where, where are you on this side of the issue?

• 21:24Speaker 02

  I'm, I am completely opposed to circumcision.

• 21:27Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, you're opposed to it and he is adamant about it.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 21:31Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Um.

• 21:36Dr. John Delony?

  So tell me about your.

• 21:43Dr. John Delony?

  I don't want to take it away from this main issue and we'll get back to this main issue, okay?

• 21:47Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 21:48Dr. John Delony?

  Um.

• 21:51Dr. John Delony?

  But being pregnant with kid number two. And it, it, let me, let me ask it this way, in the most direct way I can. If, if we were had a couple of hours together, I would, I would, I would get more information here and we'd just talk a little more gently. So I'm going to be pretty, pretty abrupt, okay? Um, is there a possibility? That the angst of the world, the angst of your life, the angst within your chest, the angst of any number of things, has somehow landed on this particular issue as I, I always called like anxiety for me always felt like a flywheel. And it would pick up a thing. Stock market, um, my wife, um, health and safety, what, any number of things and it

• 22:33Dr. John Delony?

  would just spin out of control until I thought I quote unquote solved that particular issue and then it would just pick up something else.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  No, I don't think this is a compilation of, of other things. I think this is an issue and, and we do not see eye to eye on it.

• 22:53Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So, so tell me about, tell me about your, your, I mean, this is so deep for you. I mean, it's bringing up tears. The thought of it is bringing tears. I mean, it's, it's bringing up deep emotions. Tell me about where that comes from.

• 23:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, um, well, because I come from a big family. My husband does as well. Um, we both saw a big family for ourselves as, as what we wanted. Um, so this was the idea of giving up having more kids and, and being done.

• 23:28Dr. John Delony?

  I, I, that's not what I'm asking. Like the fact that you would not see through your dream of having a big family that strangely enough is shared with your husband. The fact that you would give all of that up over this issue.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Because I think, I think circumcision is inherently harmful to babies and I, I won't, I won't have a baby knowing he's going to be harmed.

• 23:57Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So tell, tell me about where that belief comes from.

• 23:59Speaker 02

  Well, um, you know, and when a baby is born, they're here looking for safety and comfort from their mom. Um, and to literally cut off a piece of genitals on the day they're born or the next day, it's, it seems absolutely barbaric to me.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  Uh, nobody in my family, in my immediate family, I have a lot of brothers and I changed diapers growing up. I know my brothers are not circumcised.

• 24:25Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 24:26Speaker 02

  Um, everyone in my husband's extended family is, and so

• 24:30Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  It's just this crazy issue that we're on absolute opposite sides of. He's like, everyone, everyone grew up just fine. It's not that big a deal. And, and I think it's, I think it's a terrible practice culturally, and I don't think anyone should be doing it. But for my own child, I don't know how I would give consent for that procedure.

• 24:47Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 24:49Dr. John Delony?

  Is there any, um,

• 24:53Dr. John Delony?

  so whenever I'm talking to somebody in their mind, the door is closed to a conference to, to like getting in the door.

• 25:03Dr. John Delony?

  Um, I'll, I'll take a separate track.

• 25:07Dr. John Delony?

  But I do feel like I need to challenge the difference in cutting off genitals versus cutting off skin.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  Skin, the skin that is meant to protect the genitals.

• 25:16Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Oh, yeah. I, I want to just, one is, you're right. One is a cultural practice. One is just kind of an, I, I don't know what to say other than it just is and is. And the other is like, so conflating those two things, I just want to separate them. But the fact here is that your mind is made up. There is a door that is shut.

• 25:41Dr. John Delony?

  I guess the only path forward for you is an exhale and a making peace with, this is such a value to me

• 25:52Dr. John Delony?

  that I'm willing to give up all of this other stuff. And I would say the same thing to your husband on the phone. This is like, I'm, I'm drawing the line in the sand so firm here that it's going to cost me and all boundaries cost us.

• 26:07Dr. John Delony?

  That I'm going to go through a grieving process. I'm going to be super sad that I had this picture of my life with five, six, seven kids running around having fun. But my value line stops here and I'm going to be really grateful for my two daughters and I'm going to find joy and peace inside this boundary that I've drawn so firmly in the dirt.

• 26:29Dr. John Delony?

  Cause it, cause listen, any other choice is a choice to just continue to be miserable and angry.

• 26:36Dr. John Delony?

  And that harms you, that harms your marriage, that harms your kids.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think I've been circling around that for a while, but yeah, I guess I'm just afraid to commit to that being the past because it's not what I had envisioned.

• 26:55Dr. John Delony?

  And is he as firm on that one as you are, is he as firm as, if I have a son, I've been in enough locker rooms, I've been through my life, what's wrong with me? And I imagine he's taking this very personally, if he is circumcised, like, what is so bad about me and all my brothers, and what is this thing about my family that you think X, Y, like, this becomes a much bigger issue than just this one little thing?

• 27:21Dr. John Delony?

  That's why-

• 27:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're not wrong.

• 27:23Dr. John Delony?

  Either, this would be a very unique situation, that this is the one issue, that these things aren't showing up in other places in your marriage.

• 27:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it is, it's an isolated issue. He's a fantastic husband, wonderful father.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  We have a good relationship.

• 27:45Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so anytime I am faced with a deeply, deeply held value, of which I've got several, I'll tell you the way I've chosen to live my life, you don't have to choose to do it this way, I'm just telling you what I've done in my own life. Like, my advice in this situation is pretty, pretty thin. I don't have a lot of great advice for you. But I'll tell you what I do. I always make the assumption, or I always lead with an assumption, that I might be wrong.

• 28:20Dr. John Delony?

  And so, when I have a deeply held value on something, and somebody that I love and care about is on the other side of the issue, whether it's religion, politics, policy, anything like that, cultural issues, I always sit down with this question, could I be wrong here? Teach me.

• 28:42Dr. John Delony?

  And not in a "so I can win an argument", "not so I can bury you", "not so I can bury you", that's not the point. The point is, I'm about to make a major left or right turn in my life, and I at least want the option to not look back when I'm 40 and go, "oh, my gosh, I blew it on this."

• 29:03Dr. John Delony?

  And so, that's the only other thing I could tell you. And if you've done that, if you've really tried to say, "okay, what's the other side of this?" Have I talked to physicians who do this kind of thing? And listened to their argument?

• 29:20Dr. John Delony?

  Have I sat with people who haven't had this? And wish they had? Like, whatever. Like, have I done the work to say, "ask the question, could I be, "is there another perspective on this?"

• 29:32Dr. John Delony?

  Other than, "this simply just is, period."

• 29:37Dr. John Delony?

  And if you have, and you're like, "great, I've heard the other sides, "I've sat with folks, "I've listened to their arguments, "and I am further entrenched",

• 29:46Dr. John Delony?

  then the only other choice is to make peace with the wall that you've built for yourself.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think the...

• 29:57Speaker 02

  I really think I have listened as carefully as I can and considered each perspective I could come across and for sure listened respectfully to my husband and tried to understand why, or see if I could give this up and come around to his side.

• 30:17Speaker 02

  But I keep coming back to that it's something that if a boy really wants it, he can have it done later. But once you do it, you can't undo it. And so, if a child grows up and wants to make that decision for themselves,

• 30:32Speaker 02

  I have no problem with that, but I don't feel like I could be the one to decide for my child and then potentially regret it at some point.

• 30:41Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 30:44Dr. John Delony?

  Then I think your next option there is to exhale with your husband and say, "this is the... "we're at an impasse here.

• 30:54Dr. John Delony?

  And so, this is the world we're co-creating.

• 30:58Dr. John Delony?

  And let's be over the moon, all about our two daughters."

• 31:07Dr. John Delony?

  And let's build the best marriage we can on the back of this grief that we thought our life was gonna look like this and now it's gonna look like this. And what makes this especially challenging for both of you is this is usually a conversation I have with somebody who loses a child or who is like who life has done this to them. This would be a little more complicated because y'all are choosing this together.

• 31:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's definitely not a choice I ever saw as changing such as the trajectory of my life.

• 31:35Dr. John Delony?

  Right, right.

• 31:43Dr. John Delony?

  And the fact that you can hold your husband's aside with dignity, I appreciate. Like, it sounds like you're not just bashing him, he's a good man, he's just said, "I'm pretty firm on this one, I have a lived experience of this side of this issue." And my family has a lived experience, my culture has a lived experience of this side of this issue.

• 32:11Dr. John Delony?

  What's your brother's opinions?

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Um, I haven't directly spoken to any of them.

• 32:20Dr. John Delony?

  I would ask them. Ask them.

• 32:26Dr. John Delony?

  Ask them.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  I, um...

• 32:36Speaker 02

  I don't know how that would feel to ask.

• 32:37Dr. John Delony?

  How come?

• 32:38Speaker 02

  I guess you gave him good advice, I probably should. I don't know, it feels, uh... This is why, because when I have asked my husband about bringing people into this conversation to help us see, you know, maybe something we haven't thought of, like meeting with a pastor or something about it, he's pretty opposed to that because he says this is an issue for him and I to figure out together. It's our family, it would be our decision, um, and...

• 33:10Dr. John Delony?

  I think there's truth to that, I do. I think there's power in coming to this decision, but also...

• 33:19Dr. John Delony?

  And you can tell me if I'm wrong, I hear an underlying current that you're gonna start asking yourself, do you want to stay in this marriage?

• 33:26Speaker 02

  No, I don't think that's a factor.

• 33:27Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, alright, so...

• 33:30Speaker 02

  It's not like, it's not pervasive, it's not like, um, he's not like controlling me, telling me I can't ask advice and things like that.

• 33:37Dr. John Delony?

  No, no, no, I'm, I'm, I'm just talking about, if you look up in six years,

• 33:43Dr. John Delony?

  and you have your two daughters and they're getting older,

• 33:48Dr. John Delony?

  you'll both look at each other and start to resent each other if you're not careful.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's something that I am concerned about, like, long-term moving forward, I guess I mentioned regret, but, um, yeah, if, if we have to go one way or the other, um...

• 34:04Dr. John Delony?

  Or no way.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  How do we not let it affect our future in a negative way?

• 34:09Dr. John Delony?

  Well, you both just say we made the choice, but that, that's where I, I would be interested, I would be interested in somebody's lived experience.

• 34:20Dr. John Delony?

  That's why the phys, the physicians who do this surgery, I'd want to know, hey, this looks barbaric and evil and awful to me, can you walk me through what actually happens here? Can you walk me through pain threshold, repair, clear, all that kind of stuff?

• 34:39Dr. John Delony?

  I remember, and again, this is, this doesn't equate in any way, shape, form, or fashion, okay? I remember seeing the umbilical cord cut and heal, and it looked so gnarly. It looked catastrophic. And I couldn't imagine that that was not the most painful thing in the whole wide world ever, ever, ever.

• 35:00Dr. John Delony?

  But the look of what I was looking at wasn't accurate.

• 35:04Speaker 02

  Right, there's no nerve endings in an umbilical cord.

• 35:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so, again, I didn't know that, I'm just looking at this thing going, oh my gosh, this has to be the worst thing, ah, and it wasn't, I was wrong.

• 35:14Dr. John Delony?

  And so I would want to get lived experience from a physician. I'd want to get lived experiences of guys who you have, you have a lived experience of a husband who's pretty firmly committed to, no, no, I, this is a big deal to me. But you also have an opportunity to talk to your brothers. And so I wouldn't, I would, I would do that in concert with your husband. I would say, hey, I want to get some more wisdom on this. I want to try to, I want to try to learn some more. And I'm going to ask some guys that I know who happen to be adults who aren't circumcised, like, hey, what's your opinion on this matter? Like, that'd be worth asking them. They've had a lived experience. I always want to go as close to a source as possible when I'm trying to figure out values.

• 35:54Dr. John Delony?

  But yeah, if this is an impasse, and it's not, we're choosing one or the other, we're choosing neither.

• 36:02Dr. John Delony?

  Then we're going to grieve it, we're going to be super sad because we had a different picture for our life, and then we are going to go be about making joy inside of the boundaries we've co-created together. Because any other choice is a choice of be resentful, be angry, be bitter. And I refuse to do that, to live a whole life like that. Life is hard enough with external stuff coming our way.

• 36:26Dr. John Delony?

  So the choices I make in my life in the middle, the jobs I didn't take, the things I didn't do, the houses I didn't buy, whatever, I am going to choose that, to put a period at the end of that sentence, grieve it, be really sad, and then get on about my life. And that's really hard to do. But I think that's our call as parents, as partners, as just citizens.

• 36:45Dr. John Delony?

  It's the next right move. Or do I find joy in whatever place I found myself? Especially when it's a place of my own choosing. Thanks for the call, sister. It's a complicated issue, and I appreciate you being honest and, and sitting with me.

• 37:00Dr. John Delony?

  Let me sit with you.

• 37:02Dr. John Delony?

  Let me know what you all decide to do. I'm kind of invested in this now. I'm interested in what happens next. So make sure you let us know how it's going, and we'll be thinking about you. When we come back, a man asks, how much should he involve his kids on an upcoming move?

• 37:18Dr. John Delony?

  I joke all the time that I hate being online, but I'm not joking. And the truth is, I'm everywhere. I'm a podcaster, I'm on social media, I've got a YouTube channel. And because of all of that, my face is all over the internet. And that means my personal stuff is all over the internet. And that's why I joined Delete Me. And just because you're not a podcaster, doesn't mean that your information isn't also all over the internet. Everyone's information is everywhere. Your phone number, your home address, even old email accounts. It's all out there on data broker websites that buy and sell your private information to the highest bidders. I don't want to worry about scammers having personal details about me and my family. And I know you don't either.

• 38:01Dr. John Delony?

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• 38:31Speaker 03

  Hey, Dr. John, how are you?

• 38:32Dr. John Delony?

  I'm good, brother. How are you, man?

• 38:34Speaker 03

  I'm doing well, thank you. Just trying to prepare for this storm coming in.

• 38:37Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, dude, we're still sitting on top of us and it is a doozy. It's a doozy. What's up with you?

• 38:45Speaker 03

  So my question is, I'll just get straight to the point, is how much should I involve my kids in this decision to move? They're a little bit older, so that's why I'm a bit of a crossroads with it. They're 16 and 13.

• 39:00Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about the move.

• 39:03Speaker 03

  So I'm getting ready to retire from the military and into summer and kind of looking at what's going to be next. The kids are in high school. We've moved quite a bit, nine times in about like 13 years or something to that effect.

• 39:23Speaker 03

  And so, uh, we told them whenever we got here, this was kinda gonna be it. We're gonna stick around, uh, in, in North Carolina for a while. Um, but quite frankly, I, I don't care for it here. My wife doesn't care for it here. And so we had this opportunity coming up to, to look to relocate. Uh, but kids being the ages that they are, it, it just seems a bit unfair to them. And so that's the, the, the, the, the back and forth that I have in my head of, you know, we said this was gonna be stable for you. Uh, however, I don't, we're, your mom and I are miserable here, so.

• 40:00Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Um, well, how old are they?

• 40:04Speaker 03

  Uh, I think, oh, sixteen and, and thirteen.

• 40:07Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, alright. And what's this new opportunity? Where is it?

• 40:11Speaker 03

  Um, it, so it's, it's not necessarily, uh, set in stone yet. It's just, um, it, it's, I don't see finding a job in, in this area, cause it's a bit smaller. Uh, and, and so we're looking for, for somewhere, you know, in another state.

• 40:28Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So, one,

• 40:34Dr. John Delony?

  like you said, you're gonna need a job.

• 40:38Dr. John Delony?

  You and your wife have to be connected and decide where y'all are going to be and what kind of life you wanna have. Right?

• 40:45Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:46Dr. John Delony?

  And so, a miserable, grouchy, grumpy, purposeless mom and dad is not a healthy home for two kids, right? You know that.

• 40:57Speaker 03

  Right.

• 40:58Dr. John Delony?

  And, stability, that's important too. And so, I think the challenge for you, you, you gave your life to, to public service, which is extra- extraordinary. And with that commitment came a lot of moves, a lot of reassigned all the time, which meant a lot of new schools, which meant a lot of your wife finding new grocery stores, all that kinda stuff, right? You've been through all that. And so the question your wife have to ask is, where does stability exist when my kids have moved so many times?

• 41:31Dr. John Delony?

  And that stability has to be, has to be found anchored into you two and to your love and commitment to them.

• 41:40Dr. John Delony?

  Meaning wherever we live, we are. You get what I'm saying?

• 41:45Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:47Dr. John Delony?

  And so I guess it's a balance of if you told them, hey, this is it. We're never gonna move again. We promise we're not gonna move you till high school. And then suddenly you have an opportunity in another place, then y'all gonna have to sit down and say, we told you something and we were wrong. We should not have said what we said. And then they get to be sad and upset and y'all are liars and you're mean and because they're kids, they're teenagers. And that's, that's part of the deal. What you've learned here is I'm not gonna make next year or year after that, or year after that, promises. Because I don't know what the world holds.

• 42:22Dr. John Delony?

  I will tell my kids, I promise we're gonna do the best we can to stay here.

• 42:28Dr. John Delony?

  I, or be even better yet, we have to move again. We got, we got reassigned again and this is the worst and I'll just sit here in this discomfort with you. I'm not gonna try to take away the discomfort by making a promise like, this is the last move out. You get what I'm saying? So you can tell them, we learned this lesson. I spoke with absolutes and I shouldn't have and I'm sorry, guys. And by teaching them that their dad says the words, I was wrong, I'm sorry, teaches them wisdom, teaches them strength, teaches them accountability, ownership, whatever you wanna call it. And that's a powerful, powerful lesson.

• 43:04Speaker 03

  I suppose I just, I feel selfish on my end and that's maybe where, where it's coming from because if,

• 43:09Dr. John Delony?

  If you don't have a job, that's not selfish. If you, if you have a good job and you just like, aren't fulfilled or aren't following your passion, yeah, that's selfish. Men are supposed to go do hard things and support their families. Right?

• 43:24Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:24Dr. John Delony?

  And so if you don't have a job, that's not selfish.

• 43:31Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, I guess the, the, could I find something in this area, right? Would I enjoy it? Probably not. But could I find something that it's, sure. You know what I'm saying? Like it's, I don't wanna, again, speaking absolutes, like you say, but it's, it, it's not gonna be anything.

• 43:49Speaker 03

  With what, you know, aligns with what I've been doing in the military, not that it has to, but it doesn't matter. I'm really experiencing if that makes any sense and point being like, you know, I could find something. Sure. But and that gives some stability. But then I just, I think of it like, my God, so there is, you know, my, my oldest will be going into her junior year. And then my youngest is still in what seventh grade. So I'm just thinking in my head, my God, that is another five or six years here.

• 44:18Dr. John Delony?

  Or it's two, or it's two.

• 44:23Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, I mean,

• 44:24Dr. John Delony?

  Right. It's we're gonna get her through her senior year, right as your young one is going into high school. And that's where we're gonna move.

• 44:31Speaker 03

  Well, she's got a it's her. Um, she's in like an early college. So it's a it's three more years for her, really. So then it just gets in that weird.

• 44:39Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I mean, here's the deal. It's all weird. What I hear like underneath all of this is you're not going to anything. You're just running.

• 44:50Dr. John Delony?

  And what I'll tell you is like, you may have heard me say this before, but the worst part about whatever new job you take after the military and wherever you live is that you're gonna go with you.

• 45:05Dr. John Delony?

  And so if you have that internal, I don't know who I am. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't like myself. I'm tired. I'm all those things that those are gonna end up at whatever state town job you go to.

• 45:20Dr. John Delony?

  Already deciding I'm gonna hate whatever our job I get here.

• 45:27Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, that's a bold, that's a bold prediction.

• 45:31Dr. John Delony?

  Or that's, that's an interest. That's a choice to frame what happens next in a certain way before it even happens.

• 45:39Dr. John Delony?

  And my wife and I have lived in several communities in our 23 and a half years where we look at each other and one or both of us are like, we have to leave now. Like, let's go first. First train out. We're going. I've been there, right? And I had somebody that I care about and love challenged me and say, and I quote, what kind of dad do you think you are? End quote. Because my son moved a lot between grad schools and my me taking different jobs, etc. He moved a lot.

• 46:07Dr. John Delony?

  And I've got a deep my, my son moved more by the time he was five than I did up until I was 30 something.

• 46:16Dr. John Delony?

  He has a very different childhood and I have forty plus year friendships because I lived on the same street growing up. He doesn't have that and he has an ability to walk in a room and genuinely be happy to meet any number of people because that's how he's had to adapt to his life. I don't have that. He does.

• 46:42Dr. John Delony?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 46:44Speaker 03

  No, you understand and I do get the point about, you know, you fall into this habit sometimes of when you get someplace and you look around at all the factors like I don't like it here, I don't want to be here, this is not what I thought it was going to be, when's the next thing, where's the next thing? And, you know, you never really get to be in, you know, be with yourself. And so, I mean, that's kind of where my head's at too in some ways because it's like, well, you know, if only we lived in X town and this house with this, you know, job or what have you, then everything would be, but I understand it won't. But I guess it's, like I said, it's, I mean, that last little silver, silver of hope, if you will.

• 47:28Dr. John Delony?

  Sure. And, and there is some truth. Sometimes going to a new house and a new community makes all the difference. Sometimes being in a job that is aligned perfectly magically happens and it's awesome. It, I mean, it really is. Anyone who tells you otherwise it's not. I drove a truck that I was always worried about falling apart until I finally got a new one and I'm not going to lie, it's awesome. It starts every time I turn it on, right? Like, so that's cool. It is, it actually is. But if I had hoped that that new truck or that new house or that new place was going to suddenly make me look in the mirror and be like, ah, that's not going to happen. The two things I always tell kids, number one,

• 48:13Dr. John Delony?

  this is my kids and this is what I recommend to anybody, never, ever rob them of the beauty and the wisdom lesson of saying, I was wrong or things have changed.

• 48:27Dr. John Delony?

  Or life circumstances have changed. That will be an incredible gift from their father.

• 48:36Dr. John Delony?

  The next thing is, I never put the full burden on them.

• 48:42Dr. John Delony?

  Meaning, hey, I'm about to get out of the military. It's looking like things are changing yet again, and I made y'all a promise. I want to hear directly from you, but know this, your mom and I are going to make the final decision.

• 48:56Dr. John Delony?

  Because if kids think that their dad is miserable because they want to stay in high school, they can't carry that weight of your emotional health.

• 49:05Dr. John Delony?

  And if they think they're in charge of where the family lives, they can't carry that weight either. And so letting them know, I want to hear you, but your mom and I are making the final call.

• 49:16Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 49:17Dr. John Delony?

  Is a gift, and they're going to be mad and frustrated because I'm 16, I know everything. They don't, but it feels like it, and they're going to get mad, lots of big emotions. All that's normal.

• 49:29Dr. John Delony?

  But giving them permission to be heard and then not, and letting them know for sure, you don't hold the final card here, I do, your mom does, is a gift.

• 49:39Dr. John Delony?

  I just want you to be sure you're going to something, not running from something.

• 49:46Dr. John Delony?

  How long have you been in service?

• 49:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. Uh, just about 20 years.

• 49:51Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 49:51Speaker 03

  In a couple of months.

• 49:54Dr. John Delony?

  And my experience sitting with veterans my whole career, that's hard.

• 50:00Dr. John Delony?

  Being told where to live, what to do, where to go, all that kind of stuff for 20 years, and suddenly being released to the wild, that's a, that's a hard thing.

• 50:11Dr. John Delony?

  Is that fair?

• 50:13Speaker 03

  There's, you know, that, that aspect of it, sure, you know, there's, uh,

• 50:19Speaker 03

  a lot of uncertainty, just, you know, um, transition wise for me, just because I got, you know, later in my career, some injuries and everything, so.

• 50:30Dr. John Delony?

  That's right. And so.

• 50:34Dr. John Delony?

  Be honest and open about those fears. Am I going to still have utility out in the world? I am now responsible for where we live and what job I take, which means I am now responsible for my joy and happiness and stability. And it's simply a skill that I'm going to work on because I haven't had that. It's a skill that's atrophied because I outsourced that to this unit for 20 years. Or not this unit, but to this, to this career for 20 years. And so, cool, I've got to learn some new skills. And getting under that new squat rack, it's going to be hard. My hips are going to hurt, my knees are going to hurt. And by the way, I've got some injuries in both of those things. And so, like, you get what I'm saying? It's when my buddies who are veterans and the people I've sat with, when they're not

• 51:18Dr. John Delony?

  honest about, hey, this is scary, and I see all these other civilians doing it. And it should be easy. I've done all these other hard things. It's just a skill, right? It's like football players trying to play basketball sometimes. It looks hilarious. This is a different skill. That mean they're not great athletes and they're not really amazing at what they did. It's just this is different now. And so, I'm going to be honest about all of it. But you spending some time digging into where do I want to go? And who do I want to be? And asking your wife, who do we want to be now that we are making all of the decisions for us? Getting unity and alignment on that and anchoring into that? That's priority number one. And not going into every situation just assuming it's going to be the worst ever and I'm

• 52:03Dr. John Delony?

  going to hate it and I'm not going to like it. Maybe, but maybe not. Instead of saying, I am going to go make the best opportunity here. I'm going to go do this stuff. I'm going to work this hard job so that my kids get to. You get to make all those choices. But we're not going to chase feelings. We're going to chase, what's the next right move? I'm really honored for your, for your call, brother. Thanks for your service. Thanks for being with us and thanks for trusting me with like how to have these conversations. Call anytime. I'll walk with you anytime, brother. It's an honor. Bring them along, but don't make them carry the weight. Kids cannot carry that weight. We'll be right back.

• 52:43Dr. John Delony?

  This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I have had some amazing mentors and friends who are also amazing women. But one of the common themes I hear from all of the women who have poured into me over the years is that between caring for people and all of the other responsibilities and expectations that the whole world dumps on them, women are under an incredible amount of pressure every minute of every day. And often, they're encouraged to overlook their own emotional well-being for the care of others. Therapy can be a place where you learn how to set healthy boundaries, how to create some sort of balance and support and overall well-being for yourself and for those that you love

• 53:27Dr. John Delony?

  and care about. To do this, I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform. With over 30,000 therapists, they have the right person for you. And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch anytime at no additional cost. Listen, your emotional well-being matters. Find support in therapy today. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash deloney. All right, we're back. What's up, Kelly?

• 54:10Speaker 04

  I would like you to spend a couple of minutes talking about the new app.

• 54:14Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 54:14Speaker 04

  And it's kind of telling us, instead of it being like, here's all the talking points and why we should sell it, like, which, I mean, you know-

• 54:24Dr. John Delony?

  I know, we're both getting hit up like, make commercials, make commercials.

• 54:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly. But I want people to hear why you created it, why it's been such a passion project for you, because this has been a long time in the making-

• 54:33Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 54:34Speaker 04

  -for those that like, aren't on the side of it that know. And I know how hard you worked on it and the meetings we're in and just all that's involved with it. But instead of marketing it-

• 54:44Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 54:45Speaker 04

  -tell us why you created it and what your, more importantly even than why you created it, what your hope is for people that use it.

• 54:52Dr. John Delony?

  Um, I think the most important thing people need to know is I fought against this thing for over a year. I didn't want to, I, I just, I don't use a lot of apps. I don't like going to apps for stuff. I fought and fought and fought over it. Um, and when I saw what the, there's a small team of developers that have been working on this thing, um, side by side with me for a long time. When I saw what they were putting out, I thought, okay, this is going to be a game changer.

• 55:16Dr. John Delony?

  At the end of the day, what I'm hearing across the country, private conversations, big conversations, um, from stage and in personal, in people's homes is I want to have a good or great marriage. And I, I'm at a point now where I don't know, I don't know what to do next. Um, they won't do X, Y, or Z. I don't want to do X, Y, or Z. We've lost that love and feel and the spark is gone, the, all of those things. And then quite honestly, underneath that, I'm looking at a, at a generation that's just opting out. Fewer people than ever are getting married. And quite honestly, there's been a little snapshot in history where they didn't have to.

• 55:56Dr. John Delony?

  And they thought, I'm going to go chase this, uh, these other things instead of co-creating a life with somebody with a ride or die. And so I say all those things on the show, like, you gotta pick a ride or die and y'all gotta be in this together. And y'all gotta co-create values and all that stuff. And the most common criticism I get back is, cool, that sounds great. How do I do that? And so what this app is, is us just taking it all the way to the very, very bottom. How do I know what's the next right thing? And what this app does is it texts you. It, it learns you over time, but it asks what you're struggling with. Work, uh, work, life balance, which is a myth, um, mental load, um, romance, loss of love and feeling.

• 56:38Dr. John Delony?

  Like what path do you want? And it will walk with you and give you an action step or two to do every day. And it literally will just pop up on your phone and say, go do this. And I want people to stop thinking everything through all of the time, which sounds counterintuitive. We've got to start acting our way towards the lives we want. And I just, and I've heard it so much over the last four or five years. I don't know what to do, I don't know what to do. That's this app. I got you. It's a micro habits for your marriage.

• 57:06Speaker 04

  Okay. Explain that word. Cause in a lot of the marketing that we're seeing around the, the building is micro habits. So if anyone's seeing any of the ads, you'll see that word, micro habits. Explain that, please.

• 57:16Dr. John Delony?

  When it comes to fitness, people are like, "I'm gonna lose 150 pounds." That's a great goal.

• 57:23Dr. John Delony?

  What does that actually mean and how do we do that? And the data tells us that most people have a goal like that and they never see it through. A micro habit is taking this end goal, "I want to have a great marriage." "All right, so I'm gonna get chocolates and I'm gonna do the dishes every night and I'm always gonna wanna have sex." It's impossible. You can't, that's not how it works. You're trying to start from the fireworks show back, right? So, a micro habit is, what is a small action step I can take on a regular basis that begins to shift how I see and know and celebrate my spouse? And so, instead of being like, "I don't know what's..." You'll get an, it'll pop up on your phone. I don't care how mad you are, I don't care how annoyed you are, whatever. Go make her favorite cup of coffee and go put it by her bed before she wakes up. Exactly how she likes it.

• 58:08Dr. John Delony?

  If you don't know how she likes it, then you don't know your wife. Go find that out. And/or do one chore that's not normally yours. Or write one sticky note and go outside and start his car for him in the cold and put it on his dashboard. Like, it's a small little steps over time. And they're just micro habits. And what happens is, like, James Clear talks about when you wanna, if you wanna get in shape, spend a week or two, just drive to the gym and sit in the parking lot for a minute or two and then drive home. We're gonna, that's a micro habit towards changing your actions, which is I wake up and I go to the gym and then I exercise. Go get on one treadmill for one minute and then get off. That's what we're headed towards. We are just coaching folks on, "Here's the next right step in your marriage." And so, it's breaking it down as small as possible to make them bite-sized and actionable.

• 58:53Dr. John Delony?

  And the feedback we've got on this app, we've been testing it for forever. It's just extraordinary. It's pretty amazing. So, I'm excited about it. So, that's the app in a nutshell. This is May in a nutshell. What's that from? Oh, yeah.

• 59:06Speaker 04

  Austin Powers. Help, I'm in a nutshell.

• 59:08Dr. John Delony?

  Man, that quote came, I don't know where that quote came from. But yeah, go check it out. You can download it in the App Store. Search "Together" in the App Store. And yes, Android folks, I get it, we're coming for you. Just take about 30% off, maybe 40% off. But if you've got an iPhone, go check it out in the App Store. Love you guys, bye.