965 Sadhguru on Creating Happiness & Ending Personal Suffering

"If you are constantly stepping into unfamiliar situations in your life, that means you are growing at a rapid pace."Lewis sits down with influential yogi, mystic, and visionary Sadhguru to learn how to transform your approach to thoughts, feelings, and physical sensations in order to live a more fulfilling, less painful life. They discuss the problem with taking our existence too seriously, why mindfulness is the wrong way to think about meditation, and how adults can unlock the joy we all experience in childhood. For more, check out lewishowes.com/965. And text 614-350-9360 to start a conversation with Lewis. Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 965 with yogi, mystic, and visionary Sadhguru.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  The great poet Rumi said, "You are not a drop in the ocean, you are the entire ocean in a drop." And author Paulo Coelho said, "Tell your heart that the fear of suffering is worse than suffering itself." Welcome to this episode. I could have spoken to my guest today, the visionary Sadhguru, for hours. Honestly, this was one of the most enlightening conversations I've had in a while. And for those of you that don't know Sadhguru, he's a yogi and a mystic, a meditation guide and a spiritual healer, a New York Times bestselling author, and one of India's 50 most influential people due to his transformational programs like Inner Engineering.

• 1:14Lewis Howes?

  Sadhguru is dedicated to the physical, mental, and spiritual well-being of humanity and gifted with utter clarity of perception. But what I love about him is that he doesn't shy away from the real world. He embraces it. And in this interview, we discuss why people seem to experience so much individual suffering and what we can do to eliminate it. We talk about how to return to a joyful state of our childhood, why mindfulness is the wrong way to think about meditation, the difference between enlightenment and wisdom, how to stop getting so angry regardless of any situation, and why he only needs three hours of sleep to function at the highest level.

• 1:57Lewis Howes?

  Get ready for a powerful conversation that is truly mind-opening. And if you're a fan of the School of Greatness, please take a moment to leave a five-star review on this podcast if you haven't yet. We want to be able to serve as many people as possible with inspiring, life-changing content like today's interview. So without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only Sadhguru.

• 2:22Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. I'm super honored and grateful to have Sudh Guru in the house virtually. Thank you so much for being here, I appreciate it. We were just talking about how we have similar lives crossing from across the world. You've been to my home state many times, in Ohio and Columbus. You're a big fan of aviation. And I've been near your city as well. I've been to Chennai in India. Actually, a few years ago, I went to study meditation in India and became, I guess, a meditation instructor. I don't know how much you consider it, since I only went for a few weeks to practice, but I am in my, in my path of learning and educating myself on how to master the inner engineering that we all have.

• 3:07Lewis Howes?

  I'm super grateful for you, because you continue to stand for peace, you continue to stand for awakening, consciousness, and for living a better life. And I love the fact that you are a symbol of childlike energy in the world. Fun, play, and positive things.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  Why aren't adults fun? What happened to them?

• 3:30Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. I love that. I mean, adults, as you know, get caught up in a lot of things that aren't their true nature. And why is that? Why is that, do you think, that we forget how to play and think like a child when we grow up?

• 3:45Speaker 01

  See, people have forgotten that in this vast cosmos, where we don't know where is the beginning, where is the end, in the middle of nowhere, on a tiny little mudball called Earth, you and me are sitting long distance and talking right now, okay? So, and for the kind of creatures we are, we are not even a speck of dust in this universe. But we have an individual experience. This is the magnanimity of creation, that it's given as an individual experience, though we are nothing. Tomorrow, if the whole humanity evaporates, nobody will miss us in this cosmos. That's how small we are.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  But we have an individual experience. So this individual experience, human beings have taken it rather too seriously, as if they are the beginning and the end of the world.

• 4:38Lewis Howes?

  The center of the world, yeah.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  Yes, they thought they are the center of the universe.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  So this misunderstanding makes them believe as they grow up, or as they degenerate, I would say. They don't really grow up. Because at the age of five, if you're so joyful and energetic, by the time you're thirty, you should be ecstatic and bursting. But if the reverse has happened, this is degeneration of life. So this degeneration happens because people take their individual existence rather too seriously. They don't understand, before you and me came here, countless number of people who thought they were smart, and they were strong, and they were beautiful, and they were wonderful, they are all topsoil now. Countless number of people. And you and me also will be, one day, unless our friends to...

• 5:28Speaker 01

  our friends choose to bury us really deep fearing that we may raise from the dead or something. So, we have taken our individual existence too seriously. Because of this, life has taken a backseat. Our physical structure has taken front seat. Our psychological structures have, you know, gone to the stratosphere. But the life that we are is somewhere, which is not even in most people's experience. So this is the whole problem. When you are a child, you are just a piece of life. Slowly, you took your personality so seriously, you took your boundaries of your form so seriously, that you think this is it. So till death knocks on their door,

• 6:12Speaker 01

  they don't realize that this is not it.

• 6:15Lewis Howes?

  And, and, you know, I've, I've learned that in some cultures, they focus on death multiple times a day to bring them back to that moment of, this is the only time we have, make the most of this moment, don't take things too seriously. Do you focus on death a lot throughout your days? Or is that not something you think about?

• 6:35Speaker 01

  I live death all the time.

• 6:38Lewis Howes?

  You're on a motorcycle.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  Not just that, motorcycle I live. Just now, if you do not know this, I just released a book on death.

• 6:49Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Do, do you know this? Yeah, it's a bestseller in India right now.

• 6:53Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Is it here in the USA yet? I gotta get a copy.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  We will send you a copy, but it's not India. Because USA, we're releasing another book, so this has been stalled.

• 7:02Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  In US, we're releasing a book on karma.

• 7:05Lewis Howes?

  Perfect, I need both.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  So, the book is about, uh, it is only for those who shall die. That's how it is titled, Death, A Book For Only Those Who Shall Die. Because most people think other people die.

• 7:21Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  They don't realize we die.

• 7:24Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  They do not, see, death essentially means, it reminds us that we have a limited amount of time and energy to live. Nobody has unlimited time or unlimited energy. If one is constantly conscious of this, prioritize that life in much better way than the way they're doing it right now. This is the fundamental, death does not mean something else, not some terrible thing. Uh, death simply means, it is clearly reminding you, you have a limited lease of time and energy. That means, you need to organize your time and energy to what is most valuable for you, not do one more thing that is not necessary for yourself or anybody around you. And because people think they are forever,

• 8:09Speaker 01

  they're in some restlessness all the time. I think they just put up a poem, which I wrote three, four days ago. It's called Life. The most restless ones rest so well when life is taken out of them, as if the only curse was life.

• 8:25Lewis Howes?

  Huh, wow. What does that mean to rest so well? You mean sleep so well or live so well that you feel restful?

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Uh, oh, even in sleep, they're rolling all over the place, huh?

• 8:36Lewis Howes?

  They're not sleeping well, yes.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  No, no. They need to either drink or pop a pill to sleep, most of them.

• 8:45Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, so how do we get to a restful place? Is it more about our thoughts? Is it more about our, our heart, our soul, our karma, our, our physical body? What's the place to start for rest?

• 8:57Speaker 01

  See, uh...

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Right now, people, generally people's understanding is, the rest means sleep. Wakefulness means something is happening. No, you have to make your wakefulness also restful. It is just like, if you, if you have an automobile, who's running at a very high RPM all the time, it'll naturally wear itself out. So it's important that you run cool. So if you run at, running at a easy pace, your efficiency will go up, your ability to do things will go up, your competence will go up in everything. Above all, the number of hours that you sleep will go down dramatically. See, for most people who are practicing Inner Engineering practices, their pulse rate is somewhere between forty-five to sixty-five.

• 9:43Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 9:44Speaker 01

  Many of them, yes, yes, many of them below forty-five, between thirty-five to forty-five, also in sitting states, in restful states. So, once your system is going at such an ease, then the need for rest will come down. There was a time, not anymore, I'm, I'm becoming little old and lazy these days. So, there was a time, three days and three nights, if I don't sleep, I will still be perfectly normal, still doing all my activity. Whole night I will drive, next day, whole day I will teach, whole night I will drive, and again I will teach, like this. These days, I can do one night, next day I will need to rest.

• 10:20Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, you take naps throughout the day now, yeah.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no naps.

• 10:25Lewis Howes?

  I'm joking, I'm joking.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  For almost twenty-five years, more than twenty-five years, my average sleep time was only two and a half hours.

• 10:35Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  Today, I am sleeping between three and a half to four and a half hours.

• 10:39Lewis Howes?

  You're getting lazy.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  You're getting lazy.

• 10:46Lewis Howes?

  Wow, yeah, I think I did a five-mile run yesterday, and my average heart rate was over a hundred and sixty-five. So I wonder if I can, I wonder if I can do it. Now, I'm pushing it pretty hard on my run. So I wonder, is there a way to work out hard and keep the heart rate lower than normal still, even while you're pushing and pumping so much blood?

• 11:04Speaker 01

  The important thing is, see how easily oxygen and nutrients are distributed to the cellular level.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  That will determine, see this has not been, generally they are not thinking on these lines, they are always thinking about increasing the lung capacity. Yes, that is also important, but the important thing is with how much ease the nutrients and oxygen get to the cellular level, accordingly, your pulmonary system will function. But it's not only about the heart rate, even at the cellular level with how much stress or how much ease it's going, this can be determined. We have what is called as a cobra test for people. Would you like to go through cobra test?

• 11:46Lewis Howes?

  Uh, you been getting bit by a cobra?

• 11:49Speaker 01

  No, no, no. If it doesn't bite you, then it proves something. See, most of the venomous creatures are like this, particularly cobras. In the wild, if you just go and pick up a cobra like that, he will simply come, not holding his head or anything, simply in the middle of the body, simply he will come effortlessly in your hands, without any reaction, because he is only sensing your chemistry. If you show little anxiety, if you show even a little bit of anxiety, he will go for you. If you don't show any, he is very comfortable with you because he senses everything, his safety and his danger only by the chemistry of your body. So, this is a cobra test. People say, I claim they are very meditative, we say, okay, let's do the cobra test.

• 12:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's, that's, do you do that test with people?

• 12:37Speaker 01

  We can check you out, 165.

• 12:41Lewis Howes?

  I love your, I'm really enjoying your Inner Engineering course right now. I've been going through it and I'm really enjoying it.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 12:49Lewis Howes?

  You have a quote, I think I'm gonna get the quote correct, I believe, I wrote it down, where you said, "Only what you perceive, you know, the rest is imagination." And you were talking about that in the context of what we learn in school. You were giving this example of, you know, we only really have 50% of our time available because the other 50% is with our faculties and with sleep. And for many years, we learn things, the content, that we only use one percent is what I remember you saying. What do you mean by this, only what you perceive? You know the rest is imagination.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Perception happens to you in five different dimensions. Seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching. This is how you're perceiving life. This data, data has gathered within you. Only because this data has gathered within you, now you are able to walk on a round planet which spins. It's not a small thing. It is not a small thing that you are able to walk on a spinning round ball. Because all this data has gathered through five senses, it is not intellectual information, but it is a perceptual information. If this information is not there, you won't be able to walk, actually. You will not be able to walk straight. This is what is happening for people. When some people lose their memory and things like that,

• 14:13Speaker 01

  suddenly they become unstable in their body because some of the data has gotten disconnected with their system. So, this data that you perceive is most important. That's what a child is all the time drinking up everything. You see how the child is looking at everything? Because he wants to drink up as much data as possible because instinctively he knows without that data, he will not be able to function. So, how attentive you are, how attentive your eyes are, how attentive your ears, nose, tongue, and touch is, accordingly, you have that much usable information. So, why one person is more efficient, well, you are an athlete. Why one person is able to catch a damn ball,

• 14:56Speaker 01

  another person can't catch the damn thing? Why is it? Because that level of attention of exactly how that ball will behave, how you can anticipate where it will go, this is not there. Intellectually, suppose you have a PhD in football. You think you can play football?

• 15:13Lewis Howes?

  If you have a PhD, I think, no. I think you need to experience it as well, if you just study it only, yeah.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  No, that is, that is not experience, it's perception. You're, you're watching it out of your keen interest. You're watching exactly how a ball moves. You may not be thinking the physics of it, but you're watching it and perceiving it. Because of that perception, you know something that you cannot know by reading a hundred books about it.

• 15:40Lewis Howes?

  That's true. You've got to experience life.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 15:44Lewis Howes?

  You've got to experience it.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  That's the only reason we are here.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  To experience life as profoundly as possible.

• 15:52Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely. What do you think is missing in the world the most right now? Especially here in America, there's a lot of, you know, we have Corona and then people feel like they're suffering, they're angry, they're... They feel unjust with a lot of different things that are happening. What is missing in the world?

• 16:11Speaker 01

  See, talking about the situations in America, America has an unfortunately very cruel history. Whether it concerns the Native Americans or the African Americans today, there's a very cruel history. By trying to put it under the carpet, it'll keep popping up. We have to come to terms with it. Everybody has to come to terms with it. Some remorse, some settlement must happen. I think that expression of remorse has not happened, so it keeps popping up. Well, this one policeman's inhuman act is not the real thing. The real thing is, it's there in the air. Because whatever has happened in the past,

• 16:56Speaker 01

  certain number of people have resentment about it.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  And another set of people, somewhere, maybe not exactly for me, maybe it may be wrong for me to say this, but somewhere they think that's a natural order of life. That's how it was supposed to be. Somebody had to die, somebody has to be a slave. That is how it is supposed to be. That must go. We must understand, historically, every one of us have made mistakes. We must bow down to our own mistakes and say, "We are sorry for this. Let's see how to create a new nation, a new world." This much sincerity and humility should come in every human being. Otherwise, one set of people are resentful, another set of people think they deserve it. Then how will this go?

• 17:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Do you feel, talking about mistakes of the past, I've made a lot of mistakes in my past personally in just different, different ways, from my business to relationships to family dynamics, a lot of different things. And I'm constantly trying to learn to be better every day. Do you feel like you've made a lot of mistakes in the past that maybe you regret? Or you think to yourself, oh, that was pretty, that was pretty stupid of me to do? Or have you always been this enlightened?

• 18:11Speaker 01

  Uh, I don't know. I never looked at life as a series of mistakes, learning from that. I don't look at life like that. Well, have you done, made some dumb decisions here and there? Of course. But I wouldn't see them as mistakes. I just see them as part of growing up and becoming more mature. Because enlightenment is one thing. You see things clearly. But still, operating in the world, you need wisdom. Wisdom, you have to earn it with experience. There is simply no other way for that.

• 18:49Lewis Howes?

  So you must stumble and fall and learn and grow and, and, and just go through life?

• 18:53Speaker 01

  Not necessarily. I would not say it is necessarily so. Because today, it has become fashionable with all these management gurus and all saying, you must learn from your mistakes. You must learn from mistakes. That means you must keep on doing mistakes.

• 19:08Lewis Howes?

  Ah.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  I don't believe that you must learn from your mistakes. I would rather live a life where I don't do any mistakes.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  Because life is so brief. You do a bunch of mistakes and then you will learn and where will you use it in the grave? Too late. So.

• 19:24Lewis Howes?

  So learn from other people's mistakes, yeah.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  Yes, of course. That is what being human means, that we can learn from other people's experience. From history, we can learn. We don't have to do all those things once again. And especially, you are from the aviation state. If you are trying aviation or if you're trying skydiving or something, if you don't do things right the first time, well, that'll be the last time.

• 19:50Lewis Howes?

  People talk about suffering a lot. And I know you address this in your training and your course and a lot of your social media content and you get interviewed on this a lot. When I went to India to study meditation for my brief time on my beginner mind of meditation, I was told that suffering is the obsessive self-centric thinking that we have about ourselves. The obsessive self-centric thinking. And when we focus on ourselves, then we suffer. I don't know how accurate that is in your mind or in your practice and philosophy, but what is suffering and why do we have it so much?

• 20:31Speaker 01

  See, there are two faculties in a human being, which are unique to human beings only. No other creatures have these faculties. This is a very vivid sense of memory and a fantastic sense of imagination. So what is it that human beings are suffering? Just check out with any suffering human being, they're suffering what happened five years ago, 10 years ago, or they're suffering what may happen day after tomorrow already. So essentially, they're suffering their memory and their imagination. Rarely they are in life, they are just suffering these two fantastic faculties which make us human. Our life is rich only because our memory is so vivid. Otherwise, we would also be like an earthworm.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  Essentially, what they're complaining is, they're complaining, why did nature evolve into this fantastic place of being human being? We would have been happy being earthworms because our only intention is to be eco-friendly right now.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  Earthworms are very eco-friendly, they are very peaceful, but the possibility is only that much. With the possibility, human being is a tremendous possibility. If you do not know how to harness this possibility, every possibility will become a problem. That's all that's happened. If you do not harness your faculties the way you should, then it becomes a problem. How come this has happened to us? Well, your name sounds French, I don't know, and you went to Pondicherry. You French background?

• 22:09Lewis Howes?

  Not that I'm aware of, I don't think so. English and Welsh and Italian.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  Okay, but your name sounds French.

• 22:16Lewis Howes?

  Lewis Howes, yeah, I'm not sure.

• 22:19Speaker 01

  Okay. But you went to Ponte Cherry, which is a French place.

• 22:22Lewis Howes?

  Yes, I did go there, yes.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  Anyway.

• 22:29Speaker 01

  Now that you said English, anyway, an Englishman called Charles Darwin, you've heard of that guy?

• 22:34Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  You have no problem with him in Ohio?

• 22:37Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  Because we come from Tennessee, we are in Tennessee, that's why I'm telling you.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  So, Charles Darwin said something like this, I'm simplifying it, oversimplifying it, but something like this. A goat could have become a giraffe over a million-year time. A pig could have become an elephant over many more million years. But a monkey became a man rather too quickly. So quickly that anthropologists are looking for a missing link which they have not found. Actual difference, the DNA difference between a chimpanzee and a human being is only 1.23%.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  1.23% is not too much of a difference, isn't it? So physiologically, physiologically, that's how close we are to a chimpanzee. But in terms of our intelligence and awareness, we are worlds apart from a chimpanzee. So right now, what human beings are suffering is their own intelligence. You remove half their brain, they will be very peaceful. No meditation will be needed for them. They will simply sit.

• 23:49Lewis Howes?

  And just be, yeah, exactly.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  Just be, because that's what the whole American spirituality is just talking about. Just be, just be. If you remove half the brain, you'll just be. That's what a whole lot of people are trying to do by soaking their brains in alcohol. Maybe they're preserving it for some other place. Or drugging themselves out. They're just being, all right? That is not the way to explore human possibility. If human possibility has to be explored, all our faculties must be full on. And we must see how to further enhance them. Because the profoundness of experience comes to you only with sharpness of perception. You cannot dull your perception and think you are having a profound experience.

• 24:35Lewis Howes?

  So how do we maximize or expand our perception?

• 24:38Speaker 01

  See, it's like this. Because as human beings, we knew that only enhancement of our perception, our life will become better. We wanted to see what is up there. Our eyes could not see, so we made a telescope. We want to see the virus, so we made a microscope. We want to hear what is happening somewhere else, so we made a telephone. We made a microphone, see you and me talking. Literally 12 hours across the planet, all right? Why all these technologies we made? We want to enhance our perception, isn't it?

• 25:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  So, right now, this is a bunch of youth, you know, all these youth events. Below 25 events, I get invited because they think I'm 25.

• 25:22Lewis Howes?

  You have the my, you have the curiosity of a child, that's why they bring you.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  So, they were asking me, "Sadhguru, you have so much influence in the government. Why can't you make marijuana legal for us?" So, this is over 10,000, 15,000 people in Bangalore city. And it's an open-air thing, I can smell the smoke. They all gathered and they sang, "Why don't you make it legal for us?" I said, "Why this marijuana? We will make cocaine also legal, meth also legal. Whatever else you name it, I will make all that legal for you." But why do you wanted, wanted this to be legal? Because you want to smoke dope and go to the university, isn't it? Yes, they said, "Why not?" We are fine with that.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  I said, see, we'll do one thing. I'll get you a small plane. And the pilot comes, really smoked up. Do you want to fly with him? Uh, like this. Then I said, you're not getting it. You need a major surgery. The surgeon comes, really smoked up. You want the surgery? They said, no. So you understand, by smoking these things or drinking these things, whatever, your faculties go down. Lowered faculties will mean less efficiency of life. Not only in terms of work, in terms of experience also. It means less life. So, you want to be high, but you are going low and you're thinking you're high.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  If you want to be high, you come to me, I will show you how to tune up all your faculties to such a level that you will be bright and alert all the time? Joyful, blissful, ecstatic, look at my eyes, I am always stoned, without any substance.

• 27:15Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Because this is the most complex and sophisticated chemical factory on the planet. The question is only, are you a great CEO or a lousy CEO? That's all determines the nature of your experience. So I don't want to give a philosophical explanation to human suffering. Human suffering is essentially that they have an intelligence for which they don't have a stable enough platform. So they don't know how to handle their own intelligence. You can call it tension, stress, anxiety, misery, whatever. Essentially, your intelligence has turned against you. That is all it is.

• 27:53Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, so much to unpack here. So, when we have emotions, thoughts, feelings, emotions of anger, resentment from something that happened in the past, upset that we see on social media, frustrations in the world, where should we be redirecting these thoughts, feelings and emotions? Should we be feeling them and allowing ourselves to go with anger until it stops? Should we be guarding our thoughts with, with the reverse of that? What's your ideas on thoughts and feeling and emotions?

• 28:31Speaker 01

  You must punch a window pane or a wall better. A stone wall is good.

• 28:37Lewis Howes?

  You'll feel it, boy. Yeah, exactly.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  Because that is the model that the Hollywood and the television shows, everything is setting up. When you get angry, you break something, all right?

• 28:49Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  So, see, first of all, people are assuming that anger is happening to them, or misery is happening to them. No, this is exactly what I said earlier, maybe I didn't articulate it fully. No, you are creating anger, you're creating misery, you're creating joy, you're creating whatever. All this is happening from within you. Is it true all human experience is happening from within us?

• 29:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, because we perceive something and then we...

• 29:19Speaker 01

  No, no, something else, something else may stimulate. But human experience is happening from within us, isn't it?

• 29:26Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  Whether it's love, or hate, or anger, or misery, or joy, or anything is only happening from within us. Now, simple question I am asking is, what happens from within you? Should you ha... should it happen your way or somebody else's way?

• 29:41Lewis Howes?

  It should happen your way.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Of course, because the world will never happen your way a hundred percent. Because there are so many stakeholders in the world, little bit will happen my way, little bit your way, that is fine. But what happens within me must happen my way. If what happens within me does not happen my way, this is the worst form of slavery, isn't it?

• 30:03Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  Somebody decides what happens within me. Somebody decides where I should sit. This is slavery, everybody understands this. Now, somebody decides whether I am happy or unhappy. Isn't this the worst form of slavery?

• 30:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  So, this is the liberation that humanity needs to work at. This is what inner engineering means. Inner engineering is not some mechanical process. Because engineering means this essentially. You will say something is well engineered only if it works the way you want, isn't it?

• 30:35Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  If this one doesn't work the way you want, what the hell are you expecting other things to work the way you want? It's just an accident. When you live accidentally, anxiety is normal.

• 30:47Lewis Howes?

  Yes, it's every day. But when you're living on purpose and intentionally and mindfully, you should be able to shift out of that.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, I wouldn't use those words.

• 30:57Lewis Howes?

  Okay, what words would you use?

• 31:00Speaker 01

  When you say purpose, intention, mindful. See, this is the whole problem with people, their mind is full all the time.

• 31:08Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  My mind is just empty all the time, nothing happening, nothing. That's why I wear a turban, just to make it substantial.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  There's nothing in my head. If I'm walking there, I'm just walking, nothing happens. Because, see, right now, your hands are there. Suppose your one hand starts jumping like this.

• 31:32Lewis Howes?

  Huh.

• 31:32Speaker 01

  Or if, let's say, my hand starts jumping like this. What will you think? You think Sadhguru has some kind of ailment, isn't it?

• 31:39Lewis Howes?

  I just, that's the, that's the way intelligent people do things, you know?

• 31:44Speaker 01

  No, no, suppose my hand starts jumping like that. You will think, there is some ailment, isn't it? You will think I'm, maybe Mr. Parkinson's is visiting me, or something like that.

• 31:54Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  So, your mind is jumping all the, all over the place. Why is that not ailment, I'm asking? Your only comfort is, other people cannot see it, isn't it?

• 32:06Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, yeah, I guess they see it through the manifestation of you being anxious, or tense, or stressed, or angry, or...

• 32:13Speaker 01

  No, whether they see it or not, they see it or not, if any part of you is simply jumping without purpose, is that an ailment, I'm asking?

• 32:23Lewis Howes?

  If any part of you is jumping without purpose, is it an ailment? Well, I think in your Inner Engineering course, you talk about how we have certain faculties that we can't control, like going to the bathroom and doing certain things that are part of our body, so...

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, but...

• 32:40Lewis Howes?

  I don't know if that's a trick question, but...

• 32:42Speaker 01

  No, no, the pee, the pee is just filling up in the bladder, it's not jumping all over the place.

• 32:47Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha, gotcha.

• 32:48Speaker 01

  If it jumps all over the place, that is an ailment.

• 32:51Lewis Howes?

  That's an ailment, yes, correct.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  Right now, suppose, let me take a worse example. Suppose your hand starts beating you in the face.

• 33:00Lewis Howes?

  That's an ailment, yes.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Well, sure. So, right now, your thoughts and emotions are beating you up from inside. Why is that not an ailment, I'm saying?

• 33:08Lewis Howes?

  No, it is.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  So, let us not think anger happens to us, resentment happens to us. No, these things we are creating. We have the power to emote. We can make it love, we can make it joy, we can make it ecstasy. But people have chosen to make it tension, anger, resentment, hatred. They have turned it that way. Now they will claim this is because life has been unfair to me. Life has not been fair to anybody. Especially not me.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Life is not fair to anybody. Life is simply rolling. It's for you to learn to ride it. Sometimes we are in uncomfortable situations, some far- sometimes we are in comfortable situations. Sometimes we are in situations where we know exactly what to do. In sometimes we are in situations where we don't know what to do. Sometimes somebody else is controlling the situation. Sometimes you are controlling the situation. This is how life is. If you are constantly stepping into unfamiliar situations in your life, that means you are growing at a rapid pace. If you are in constantly uncomfortable situations, that means you are a stagnant life. So if you, if you look for comfort, if you look for a comfort zone,

• 34:23Speaker 01

  because the moment your thoughts and emotions are going to torment you with external stimulant, external stimulation that happens, what will you choose? You will choose a comfort zone. This means you will limit your life. So the moment somebody can cause you pain or suffering, this means unknowingly you will make the very scope of your life very limited. Only when a person loses this fear of suffering, that no matter what happens, this is how I will be. If this assurance comes to you, then you walk full stride. Because whatever happens in the life around you, it will not really make you suffer. Once you are free from suffering, only when you are free from suffering,

• 35:08Speaker 01

  when you are free from the fear of suffering, that is when you will explore your life in full depth and dimension.

• 35:15Lewis Howes?

  How do we rid ourselves of the fear of suffering then?

• 35:19Speaker 01

  See, as I told you, the suffering is happening because your faculties are not held in your hands. If I have to go to this in little detail, I'll have to take a few minutes. See, for example, if I ask you a simple question, do you want your intellect to be sharp or blunt? What is your choice?

• 35:38Lewis Howes?

  Sharp.

• 35:39Speaker 01

  Sharp, of course. So you understand, your intellect is... The better... The sharper it is, the better it is. It's like a knife. So if it's like a knife, it's a cutting instrument. So if you give anything to your intellect, it will dissect everything and see. This is the nature of our intellect. You don't have to physically dissect, but it dissects everything and sees, what is this, what is that? This is the nature of the intellect. Without dissection, it doesn't know because it is a knife. It's like a scalpel. It must be sharp. A knife that is not sharp is no good knife, isn't it?

• 36:14Lewis Howes?

  Right. It's good for butter.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. That also depends. If it just comes out of the refrigerator, even that it won't cut.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  So, if you're using a knife to do everything, to do everything, let's say you eat with a knife, you brush with your knife, and you do everything with your knife, of course you will be bleeding. That's all that's happening. Only one dimension of intelligence within us. In yogic way of looking at things, we look at mind as sixteen parts. This intellect is just one part. Because our education systems are such, which are totally intellect-oriented, human beings largely are using only one dimension of their intellect to do everything. You use a knife to stitch your clothes, what will you wear? Only tatters. See, that's what you're seeing in Los Angeles right now.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Half the people are wearing tattered clothes. Maybe they use the knife to stitch their jeans.

• 37:15Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. With holes in them, yes.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  So if you use a knife to stitch, that's what will happen, all tatters. Right now, human life is in tatters, mainly because of this. Instead of using a needle, you're using a knife. So intellect is a very good instrument of survival. If you want to survive on this planet, you need a sharp intellect. The sharper it is, the better you will survive. But that will not make life, that will not put everything together. Right now, because through intellectual process, people are trying to handle everything with so much care. They're trying to do everything right, right, right, right, and a blunder. The result is a blunder. Everything right, but the end result is a big blunder because you're using a knife to do everything.

• 38:05Lewis Howes?

  When was the last time that you felt anger or resentment and actually expressed it?

• 38:11Speaker 01

  I was just thinking of getting angry with you just now.

• 38:15Lewis Howes?

  Perfect, bring it.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  The thing is, Louis, I did not give this privilege to anybody, that somebody can make me happy, somebody can make me unhappy, somebody can make me angry, somebody can make me miserable. I have not given that privilege to anybody. It's not that I'm incapable of all these things. If I want, I can be all those things.

• 38:36Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  But I have not given this privilege to anybody. They can't do something to me and make me angry, no. I have not given that privilege to anyone.

• 38:47Lewis Howes?

  Did you have that experience or give that privilege to someone when you were younger? Did you learn that at a certain point where you transitioned?

• 38:54Speaker 01

  Till I was twenty-three, twenty-four years of age, from the age of probably eleven, twelve, I was always twenty-four hours angry.

• 39:03Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 39:04Speaker 01

  Most, yes. Because I was on this binge of what is justice and injustice.

• 39:11Lewis Howes?

  Huh.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  So once you start looking what is justice and injustice, just about everything in the world looks unjust.

• 39:19Lewis Howes?

  Everything makes you angry.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  Small, small thing.

• 39:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. Everything, anything unjust means it makes me angry. And everywhere I see, whether at home, in school, on the street, in the society, in the country, in the world, wherever I see, I think, this is unjust, this is unjust, this is unjust. So much injustice, always angry.

• 39:38Lewis Howes?

  Right. I mean, I feel like there's a lot, there's a lot of people in the, in America and in the world who, a lot of things make them angry and there's a lot of injustice for people. When did you shift and how did you come to that realization that this no longer works for you in your life?

• 39:52Speaker 01

  See, it doesn't work for anybody.

• 39:54Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  Not just for me.

• 39:57Lewis Howes?

  But for you personally, when did you realize?

• 40:00Speaker 01

  See, the reason why people think anger is some kind of a virtue, because they say righteous anger, all right? Right now, America is seething with anger and they think it's righteous anger. This is simply because it takes some horrible thing to stimulate them into action. There's not enough love in your heart to stimulate yourself into action. Something has to poke you, you must get angry and then it propels you into action. So that kind of action, sometimes will produce results, of course, but if you want genuine results which will be good for everybody, we must do it when everything is right. But when everything is little comfortable, nobody does anything.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  When something horrible happens, then we will get angry and propel ourselves into action. Right now, this propelling yourself into action with anger, how long will you keep it up?

• 40:55Lewis Howes?

  I mean, you can't keep it up long.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  You cannot keep it up forever.

• 40:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you get tired.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Yes. If you keep it up forever, you, you will destroy yourself and you will destroy everything around yourself. So anger is, become valuable because most people are so lethargic in their responses. Once in a way, when they get angry, they feel empowered and seem to be doing right things once in a way. You must be doing those right things all your life, then by the end of your life, everything might not have changed, but you would have made a difference. That's the way the world works.

• 41:31Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. So how, I'm, man. So if people are lethargic and comfortable, a lot of the times, and they're unwilling to...

• 41:42Lewis Howes?

  Choose love and act with love to make a change. How do we get people to wake up when things are calmer so that they can act with love and get the change and the results they want?

• 41:53Speaker 01

  See, today, this whole movement, what you're seeing as Inner Engineering, is a movement from religion to responsibility, in a way. Essentially, what I mean is, religion means people are thinking responsibility is somewhere up there. Where is that up? Nobody knows, all right? You just have to believe where is that up. But now, you're sitting in California. I'm here in Tamil Nadu. If I look up, I'm looking at, looking up in one direction. If you look up, you are looking up in another direction. So my up is different, your up is different. And by tomorrow morning, again, my up will be yours, your up will be mine. It'll be a big confusion.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  The damn planet is spinning and it's round. Which way is up? Does anybody know which way is up in this universe? Is it marked somewhere in the cosmos, this side up? There is no such thing. So responsibility is up there. No, no, no, it must come here. We must understand, if we want to live in a wonderful world, it's only us and us and us who can make this happen. No other force from anywhere is going to make this happen. Unless we realize and transform ourselves from religion to responsibility, that it's here. What this whole thing has come up is, see, because we have no explanation for creation. Before you and me came, so much creation has happened. Who did it?

• 43:23Speaker 01

  A simplistic childish understanding of this is, a big man must have done it. So he is somewhere up there. Because you can't see him here, he must be up there. Now, of course, women are claiming, “Why not it be a woman?” In India, we sorted these problems out. There are, we have man gods, we have woman gods, we have snake god, we have cow god, we have elephant god, we have every kind, crawling ones, creeping ones, flying ones, because we foresaw all the future problems that may happen. You don’t know who will claim what tomorrow. So, we said, “Everything is god.” So, what I am saying is, our idea of god has essentially come because we have no explanation for creation. How did all this happen? Such a complex, fantastic stuff. Who did it?

• 44:06Speaker 01

  Because we are human, we think it must be a big human being. Suppose you and me were buffalos, having conversation right now. We would definitely think god is a huge buffalo, isn’t it? Nobody could argue with us about that. We would definitely say he is a huge buffalo, because that would be our imagination. Right now, this is our imagination. It’s fine, if you are using it to settle a few things, if you are using it as a way of a psychological process, fine. But solace is one thing, solutions for life is a different thing. So, one first thing that we must decide is, those who are in extreme states of poverty,

• 44:46Speaker 01

  war, other kinds of misery imposed upon them, only for them you must give solace. Rest of us who have eaten our breakfast today morning or dinner, we should talk about solution, not solace. Solace is just a psychological process, to settle something within you. But why, people who have eaten well, people who are healthy, people who have a life to live, why are there psychological problem? They should not have any psychological problem, that’s all I am saying. I know this will be very cruel for a lot of people, but they better get it, because life is brief. If they don’t get it now, and they think being psychologically disturbed is normal, they will spend their life like this, it is not normal.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  To be healthy is normal, to be balanced is normal, to be joyful is normal. Look at yourself when you are five years of age. Were you miserable or joyful? And if somebody had to make you, take the joy out of you by poking you with something, otherwise joy wouldn’t go, you would be bouncing all over the place, isn’t it? Today, somebody has to make you happy. Somebody has to work hard to make you happy. At that time, somebody had to work hard to make you miserable. Today, somebody has to make you work hard to make you happy. The whole equation has gotten reversed. What is it? What is it that happened to you? You just grew up. If you grew up, life should become better when you grow up, isn't it? All other life, you see a little plant, when it grows up into a tree,

• 46:12Speaker 01

  does it become better or worse?

• 46:14Lewis Howes?

  Becomes better.

• 46:14Speaker 01

  It becomes better. Everything becomes better. Only human beings are saying, "Oh, childhood was so fantastic, my adulthood is misery." Why? This must be the best time. Your old age must be the most fantastic time.

• 46:27Lewis Howes?

  But I'm hearing, what I'm hearing you say is we've allowed our, our inner engineering to be broken, and we allow it to stay broken with our thoughts and our emotions and our feelings, and we don't take care of it.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  See, we, as a society, as a culture, as a generation of people, we have not given enough significance to the life that we are. Our whole business, you ask any child today, he knows where that Galaxy Z163 is, all right? Because he's seen it on the phone screen. But he doesn't know a damn thing about himself. You do not know the fundamental mechanics of how you function. For example, let me put this in a very simple way. Right now, I will give you a simple exercise. Next ten seconds, you should not think about a monkey. Do not think about a monkey. Do not think about a monkey, that's what I'm saying.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  Only monkeys, isn't it?

• 47:24Speaker 01

  So to this mind, this is the nature of your mind, if you say, "Do not..." something, only that will happen. That's the nature of your mind. To this mind, somebody told you, "What is good, what is bad? Do not think about bad things." Well, that's a full-time job. I'm saying, you have not understood the simple, most fundamental mechanics of human mind.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  This doesn't need any enlightenment. If anybody sits with two minutes, eyes closed, they will realize that in this mind, there is no subtraction and division. There's only addition and multiplication. Whatever you try to do, only more will happen. There are no brakes on it. All three pedals are throttle.

• 48:05Lewis Howes?

  I wish we could go for another six hours, but I want to be respectful of your time. And I have many, many questions that I know I'll always want to ask and continue to learn and improve in my life. And I know my audience will want to ask as well. But I want to, I want to be respectful of time and finish with a few questions. This is called the three truths. I ask this question to every guest that I have on at the end. It's a hypothetical question.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  But there's only one, huh?

• 48:34Lewis Howes?

  Okay, perfect. Well, here's the question, and you can share with yours if it's one or three. Imagine you have lived your life fully and, and you've gone off to do everything you want to do. You've lived many more years, but eventually you must go. Your body must go. And for whatever reason, Sadhguru, you have to take all of your teachings, your books, your videos, this interview with you when you pass. For whatever reason, hypothetical. And you get to, before you go, write down three things you know to be true about all of your life experience, about lessons, about what you'd want to share with the world that we would all have access to. And this is all we would have access to from your wisdom.

• 49:18Lewis Howes?

  What would you say are those three things for you? And maybe it's only one thing. But what would you say are your three truths?

• 49:23Speaker 01

  Well, I'm anyway planning to do that. What you said, take all the books and videos and everything. Because all, all the idiots around me, if they don't get the point when I'm alive, they're not going to get it after I'm gone.

• 49:37Lewis Howes?

  Oh, there you go.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  So, books and videos are only inspirational, that will never convey truth. It will only inspire them to seek. So, that seeking, I clearly know that I have instilled in millions of people. That seeking will live on. It doesn't take books and videos and stuff. It will anyway live on because the seeking is not about me. The seeking is the fundamental nature of every human being. The fundamental intelligence within the human being essentially seeks. So, the seeking is destroyed by making them believe something all the time along the way. This is right, that is wrong, that is God, this is devil like this. Beliefs and beliefs and beliefs and you block the seeking.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  So, my whole work has been to unblock those blocks so that people become seekers. So, if they have become seekers, they will anyway continue to seek. If they haven't, well, all the best for them, what can I do?

• 50:38Lewis Howes?

  Okay. So, is that one truth then, become a seeker?

• 50:43Speaker 01

  No, no, we can explore all the other tools.

• 50:46Lewis Howes?

  Okay, okay. Perfect, perfect.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  Different doors to the same building.

• 50:49Lewis Howes?

  Different doors to the same building, got it. I want to encourage everyone to get Inner Engineering because as I'm going through right now, I'm really enjoying the philosophy that you're sharing with everyone. Where can we go to get access to this and follow you on social media? I've got a couple of questions left for you, but I want to make sure everyone goes and gets access to this because it's a way for them to continue.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  One thing is, right now, if you are a frontline worker, working for the COVID virus, then it's offered free to everybody. Otherwise, it's offered at half price because of the virus situation. So, millions of people are making use of it. They should go to InnerEngineering.com, is it?

• 51:30Lewis Howes?

  InnerEngineering.com?

• 51:32Speaker 01

  InnerEngineering.com, in United States, that's where it is. So, it's available there and they should go through it as quickly as possible. They shouldn't spread it. Let's say seven days, within 15 days, if they go through it, it's most impactful. Now, in the next few days, we are adding an extra bonus eighth session, which will come on day four or something, where we're teaching some practices mainly to enhance the immunity of the system. Considering these times, right now, we can't be locked down forever.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  The only way for us to get back, we don't know a damn thing about this virus. I have been looking at every scientific studies, every day, 128 new papers are being released, scientific papers, that means we don't know anything. Every day, little, little, little, they're learning. So, if you look at it, we don't have a clear statement, this is the nature of this virus, this is what it can do, nobody has said that. So, the only instrument that we have is, a strong immune system, if you have, you know you can pass through this. So, as a part of this, we're introducing one more extra session, which must go in within the next few days, that there will be a series of practices that one can learn in one session, which will enhance the immune system.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  Here, we have taught to millions of people in rural India, which is making a huge difference.

• 52:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's powerful. Yeah, I encourage everyone to go get that, and we'll have it linked up on the show notes and everything as well. What are three things that you think, three habits, that you apply in your life that you think are simple habits, everyone should be applying, for increased happiness and immunity in general?

• 53:08Speaker 01

  These are two things, happiness and immune, some people are immune to happiness.

• 53:12Lewis Howes?

  I feel like if you have more happiness, your immune system would be increased as well, so...

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Definitely, if one is exuberant, all systems, including the immune system, will function better, because we should not understand happiness and joy as just a certain type of emotion. Essentially, when your life energies are exuberant, it will naturally bubble out. You don't have to try to be happy, you don't have to try to be joyful, this will naturally happen. When your energies are exuberant and effervescent, naturally your immune system will work well. So, those two things are different, but considering the times, I think I should say a few words on the immune system. There are a few simple things that you can do. In India, we have so many herbs and other things in tropical land

• 54:05Speaker 01

  that we are using very effectively. I must tell you this, where we are right now, we are near, in the western part of Tamil Nadu. Where you went is the eastern part, near the coast. This is the western part of Tamil Nadu. In this region, our volunteers have been active, giving a few, you know, a few herbal drinks all around for the police, for the medical personnel and all the whole population, a few million people. And we are also distributing this in various places. Wherever this has been done, in this region of Tamil Nadu, there's not been a single case till now.

• 54:39Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  Though it's rampant in Chennai, there's not a single case here. I cannot claim it's only because of this drink, but this drink has made a huge difference. This drink has nothing to do with the COVID virus, but it has something to do with enhancing your immune system, your system functions better. One simple thing that in United States people can do, if you have a garden, just spend at least one hour barefoot in the garden, put your hands into the earth, do something, just connect it to the earth in some way. Believe me, your immune system will work very, very well. Lovingly, if you handle soil, you must call it mother soil, not dirt, okay?

• 55:23Lewis Howes?

  Hmm hmm.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  And you handle it, you will see your immune system will go up. This is something we have completely disregarded. All the time, on whatever, if you are a woman, you are on three or six inch heel. If you're a man, you're on a proper boot. Never connect it to the earth. It's important that you connect to the earth because what you think is your body is just an extension of this earth. You're just a pop-up on this planet. One day, you will pop back into the planet, all right? So, this is very important. This is a simple thing you can do. If you don't have a garden, volunteer to work in your neighbor's garden. He will also be happy. You will also be healthy.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  That's one thing. And today, I think certain things are available in United States. One simple thing is turmeric. If you mix little bit of turmeric in warm water along with honey and drink it three to five times a day.

• 56:20Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Your immune system will work wonderfully well.

• 56:24Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  These are simple things that you can do. And there are also certain other things may not be available. It should be available in California. You have these gooseberries, raw mangoes. These are all wonderful things for your immune system. This is naturally when people are going into certain states, particularly when women get pregnant, they have an urge to eat certain things. All these things have been identified as things which are extremely good for your immune system because it's a natural urge, instinctive urge in the system to strengthen the immune system when a woman gets pregnant. This is a natural process which is happening in the... It is a intelligence invested in our bodies which may not necessarily get articulated in our minds.

• 57:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Beautiful.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  And there is a simple practice which we can give to you. You can put it on your cast, podcast.

• 57:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  It's called Simha Kriya. Simha Kriya, it just takes 12 minutes to do it. This will immediately enhance the immune system. I would say within, within two weeks of practice, there will be a significant improvement in the immune system.

• 57:29Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  Now, everybody is stepping out from the lockdown. Either you want to go to work or you want to protest. Do whatever you want to do. Your immune system should be good. It's very important.

• 57:40Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Yeah, we'd love to share that. Do you have a podcast, Sadhguru?

• 57:43Speaker 01

  Oh, no, really, I'm all over the place.

• 57:46Lewis Howes?

  The world needs to hear your voice on, on audio as well. I know you have a big YouTube following and social media, but I'm happy to connect with your team later to... You already have the content. It would... Transform a lot of people's lives if you, if you choose to do that in the future. So I'm happy to support.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  I'll ask our US team to get in touch with you. Please support us.

• 58:07Lewis Howes?

  Yes, of course. My final, before I ask my final questions, Sadhguru. I wanted to acknowledge you for the incredible gift you are to the world, for the incredible example you set every day for the people around you. Again, I think you explaining that our life should get better the older we get, not have more problems and more challenges and more disease that should improve, it should flourish, we should have fruit hanging from our limbs essentially. I love the example you set of demonstrating love, peace, childlike joy every single day because that example is rippling into, in so many lives. And so I just really acknowledge you for the gift that you are

• 58:49Lewis Howes?

  and all you do to serve humanity in a big way. And my, my final question for you is what I ask everyone at the end as well is what is your definition of greatness?

• 59:00Speaker 01

  We used to print a brochure for Inner Engineering programs. We would say Inner Engineering, from ordinary to extraordinary. So these are physical programs at that time when I'm doing this. After one or two days, they would come and ask, "Sadhguru, you said something special will happen. What is it?" I said, "I never said anything special." The brochure says, "Ordinary to extraordinary." I said, "Yes, that's what I mean. You will become extraordinary, more ordinary than ordinary people. When you become very ordinary, you just become life. When you just, not one mess in your mind trying to be special,

• 59:43Speaker 01

  you just ordinary life because ordinary life is fantastic because there is no greater phenomena than the so-called ordinary life. Everybody is trying to be something other than life. Who are those people that you consider as great people? Only those people who broke the boundaries of limitations of their persona, isn't it? Those who operated within their personal context, you don't call them great. It is only those people who operated beyond that. That means they were not trying to direct their love in some direction. They were not trying to become great first of all. They just allowed their love to direct them.

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  You should never direct your sense of inclusiveness that you have. You allow your inclusiveness to direct your actions. Is it right, wrong, is it successful? There are a whole lot of self-appointed, you know, advisors around me who keep saying, “Sadhguru, for what you have, you could make billions of dollars, you could do this, you could do that, what are you doing?” I said, “What do I do with billion dollars, huh? I want 7.6 billion people. What do I do with billion, billion dollars? I don’t know what to do with it. What will I do with it? Anyway, wherever I go, people feed me. Wherever I go, people make sure I stay in good places. Wherever I go, I travel well. So, why do I need money?

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  I don’t need money because the problem with humanity is, as I said earlier, they have taken their own physical and psychological form too seriously. They have a shape to their body, they have a shape to their mental structure. This is what transformation means. When I said “Inner Engineering, Tools for Transformation,” transform means you destroy the existing form and become a larger form. And then you destroy that and become a larger form. Continuous transformation means moving from form to no-form kind of state. Anybody who showed or exhibited those aspects in their life, at some point, they broke

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  their form and did something beyond that, those are the people that you are recognizing as great, isn’t it? I have no intention of being great, I’m just fooling around.

• 1:02:02Lewis Howes?

  (Laughs) I love that. Well, hopefully, next time you’re in Los Angeles, we’ll be able to have some food and I’ll pay for your meal for you and hopefully, when I come to India, we can connect and...

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  You, you have to pay for my food because every day, somebody pays for my food.

• 1:02:19Lewis Howes?

  I got you.

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  I don’t, I don’t earn anything, so...

• 1:02:21Lewis Howes?

  I got you. Maybe we’ll meet up in Dayton someday, if you go back to the museum.

• 1:02:26Speaker 01

  Why not? Dayton will be good, it’s been years since I went there.

• 1:02:28Lewis Howes?

  I love that. So, Guru, thank you so much for your time and for your wisdom and...

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  Thank you, Louis.

• 1:02:34Lewis Howes?

  I look forward to supporting you.

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  I hope it’s been useful for you.

• 1:02:36Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  Thank you very much.

• 1:02:38Lewis Howes?

  Thank you.

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  We'll catch up somewhere in US. I don't know when I'll make it. I was just thinking I'll take a boat to the United States because airplanes are so unsafe, right?

• 1:02:45Lewis Howes?

  Come on over, yeah. We'd love to connect, love to have you come back on in the future as well and keep sharing your message and promoting your program. So, what you're doing is inspiring. So, thank you.

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:02:57Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate it, sir. Have a good one. My friend, thank you so much for taking time today and listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please share this with one friend, post it on your social media. You truly have the power to change and impact someone's life today by sending them this powerful message. And please check out our podcast page on the website for Sudguru's links and all the resources for him. You can go back to lewishouse.com/965 for that. Please connect with me on social media. I'm at Lewis Howes everywhere. And you can shoot me a text or a question right now to 614-350-3960.

• 1:03:39Lewis Howes?

  Go ahead and shoot me a text and just use the word "podcast" there when you text me and you'll be updated for weekly inspirational messages that I send out right there. And of course, if this is your first time here, or if you've been here for years and you haven't left us a review yet, please go and leave us a review. It takes about two seconds. Click on the review button and leave a few comments about what you enjoyed about this episode, or any episodes on the School of Greatness podcast. And I want to leave you with this. Bruce Lee said, "Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot.

• 1:04:22Lewis Howes?

  Now water can flow, or it can crash. Be water, my friend." I want to remind you of how much you matter today, how much you are loved, how much I appreciate and love you. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.