#291 - Smithsonian Cover-Up: The Lost GIANTS of Ancient America | Jim Vieira

Watch every episodes ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Jim Vieira is a stonemason, writer and star of History Channel's "Search for the Lost Giants." SPONSORS https://rhonutrition.com/discount/danny - Use code DANNY for 20% off. https://truewerk.com/danny - Get 15% off your first order. https://bubblycleaning.com/dannyjones - Get your first 3 hours of cleaning for only $19. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off. GUEST LINKS https://www.megalithomania.co.uk https://www.facebook.com/giantsonrecord FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Ayahuasca cure for seizures 10:11 - Archeological giant humanoid skeletons 19:56 - Hancock vs Dibble debate 30:41 - Excavated giant human skeletons 46:10 - Lost connection to mysticism 53:12 - Plato, Atlantis & Ogygia 01:13:22 - Trump JRE podcast 01:24:46 - Fish gods & ancient Sumer 01:35:14 - Dead Sea Scrolls & Egypt 01:53:49 - Future archeologists 02:04:18 - Psychedelic experiments Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:07Danny Jones?

  You were just telling me you had a, what were you saying about your TBI? How did you get a traumatic brain injury?

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Playing football.

• 0:13Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 0:15Speaker 01

  I got a, it was funny. We played East Bridgewater. I grew up in Harlem, south of Boston.

• 0:19Danny Jones?

  Pull us a little closer.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  Yep. And I was running back and a linebacker and I took a hit during the play and I scored on like an 80 yard touchdown, but like I remember running and like the cerebrospinal fluid came out of my nose.

• 0:34Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I was like, uh, just, just really wonky and everybody's jump, you know, I scored the touchdown. I go back to my coach and I explain what was happening, but this is like, you know, the seventies, something like the freaking dark ages. So I get sent back in, obviously with the swollen brain, skull fracture and TBI and ended up manifesting as a seizures disorder. I would get waves of petty mal, grand mal seizures that required medication and hospitalizations and massive depression for weeks on end. And the moral of the story is I then went in to the, meet with the shamans in Ecuador and do a series of ayahuasca ceremonies for many weeks.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  And I came back and healed the seizures disorder. I never took medication again. I got off the Dilantin, the Depakote, the Norantin, and I've never had, I haven't had auras or seizures in like 15 years.

• 1:32Danny Jones?

  Auras?

• 1:32Speaker 01

  Auras are kind of like pre, um, it's like a, almost a precognition of a, of a seizure. You know when it's coming. Since this weird twilight zone and with the seizures, especially the petty malls, I would get waves of them in the sleeping, wake, waking state and they would cause massive depression for weeks on end. I mean, I couldn't freaking move. I was like paralyzed and it was insidious and intractable. And all this is verified by my neural, my former neurologist, Dr. Allison Ryan in Northampton, Mass. So I am indebted to the spirits of ayahuasca, let's say.

• 2:09Danny Jones?

  Holy cow, man. So after you did the ayahuasca, you never got any seizures or auras?

• 2:15Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:16Danny Jones?

  How old were you?

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Probably like seventeen years ago, something like that? Yeah, yeah, what was I? No, the seizures didn't manifest until a little later. I got the injury early on. And then I started to get like um neurological dysregulation and things like that, but the real seizures I think started manifesting in my twenties and

• 2:36Danny Jones?

  How long after the injury did the seizures start coming on?

• 2:40Speaker 01

  Seven, eight years?

• 2:41Danny Jones?

  Seven or eight years, really?

• 2:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:43Danny Jones?

  And then after the seizures happened, you did the ayahuasca, how many years later?

• 2:48Speaker 01

  It's all a blur.

• 2:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  In my thirties, I believe. Yeah, yeah, my thirties.

• 2:53Danny Jones?

  And what do you think it was about the ayahuasca that that was able to completely get rid of the seizures and all that stuff?

• 2:59Speaker 01

  It's a good, you know, it's anti-parasitic. It has all these um efficacious applications for the human body.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  I could tell you a metaphysical theory, you know, that that one thing was I faced all these

• 3:18Speaker 01

  neuroses and and and self doubt and this internal conflict and trauma within myself like everybody suffers with. So I really straightened out a lot of the things that drove my behaviors in life that were unhealthy. Addictions, seeking externally, I was able to sit with myself. There's a part of the brain called the clostrum, right? The ego center that literally gets put to sleep and anesthetized when you do plant medicine ceremonies, when you do psychedelics. John Hopkins figured that out in like twenty twenty. So I like to say the ego gets put to sleep, the the tyrannical operating software of the separate self, the mystics would say. It gets put to sleep and you can see with clear vision.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  And I it's like You get like this life review. You can see everything. You could see how you behave unlevelingly and why. You can see the drives and the unworthiness. And you could do something about it. You can make these changes in your life. But the day to day tyranny of the ego doesn't allow you to see that. It's in the way of, you know, say your divine nature, for instance. So I believe that I removed a lot of that turmoil and judgment and in all these, because all the judgments we have for others in the world are really judgments and unworthiness we feel about ourselves, projected to get a hit so you feel better and self righteous, like a freaking bad drug addict. The reality is it's like that undoing of the trauma within that manifests in a better

• 4:47Speaker 01

  way. So moral of the story, I think there's a physiological aspect to ayahuasca and I think there's a metaphysical one as well. It allows you to self reflect, make changes in your life.

• 4:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it lasts a while, right? A few hours?

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I was doing San Pedro cactus as well, which is mescal and is the main ingredient there. There was like 15, 17 hour grueling, you know, people say like, oh, you're just getting high or whatever. It's just like you face all your dark fears, you're, it's terrifying often these ceremonies and don't go into it lightly, I would say, you know?

• 5:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  And the shamans know this and that they, your tour guide through this experience, quite frankly. So they know what you're facing and it's harrowing, you know, but.

• 5:38Danny Jones?

  Have you ever smoked straight up DMT?

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Um, what's the Bufo I have? That's the like the five M D. What the hell is it?

• 5:48Danny Jones?

  Five M E O DMT?

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Correct. That I have.

• 5:51Danny Jones?

  That that lasts like five to 10 minutes, right?

• 5:54Speaker 01

  That that lasts quickly. Ayahuasca, psilocybin, those are multi hour experiences.

• 6:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that's, it's a similar thing. They all have the same mechanism or function of putting the ego to sleep and allowing you to see with clear vision.

• 6:10Danny Jones?

  I wonder, is that you've done both? Is it a similar sort of experience when you're on ayahuasca, just longer lasting?

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. It's a little more intense. DMT really blows the top off your ego.

• 6:23Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah. It really does blow the top off. I felt my soul leave my body.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Bingo. And it's tough to translate into this waking state that we appear to exist in. So people like, ah, you know, what are those dudes talking about? But it's it's wild, as you know, and I did a ceremony in anticipation of coming here with the shamanista this weekend. And we could talk about that later if you want, or whenever. It's the same mechanism. It's the same thing that it keeps happening. It's like, wow. It's you're tapping into another reality. And I've done this, like, I'm a non-dualist, so I study like the Upanishads, Yastavakragita, Ramana Maharshi, Lautsu, Jesus, Buddha, like all these mystics that say the same strange and specific thing and radical thing about the nature of reality.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  So for months, I just keep rereading the Yastavakragita, which is considered, it's an ancient Sanskrit text that's considered like the most mind-bending metaphysical text in history. And I kept rereading it and I got thrust into that state of the one, of timelessness. And I'm like, so it's not just like, oh, this substance is altering your brain chemistry. There are ways through fasting and meditation and other modalities. As the mystics would say, it's like Sahaja, your natural state. The ego state, the external searcher, the disaffected hungry ghost is not your real state.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  So it's removing the blocks to your awareness is enlightenment. It's not accessing or gaining something in the external world, right? So it's a different dynamic. I have to remove the false beliefs to rediscover what I already am, which is a blissful state. Which is tough for people to believe. I get that because it's like, you live 10 minutes in this world. It doesn't appear like that. You know what I mean?

• 8:12Danny Jones?

  Right, right. Man, what a gruesome injury. What you, your spinal fluid was coming out of your nose?

• 8:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:22Danny Jones?

  Jesus. And then what do they, like, when you first went in, like?

• 8:26Speaker 01

  I didn't know for years later.

• 8:27Danny Jones?

  Were you in the hospital for a long time after that?

• 8:29Speaker 01

  No, it was like back in there, you rub some dirt on it. You know, the coaches, they didn't understand what happened.

• 8:35Danny Jones?

  You were right back in the game?

• 8:36Speaker 01

  Right back in the game, right with the swollen brain and. I just bought a hyperbaric chamber. Actually, I'm gonna start doing it to like access some of the frozen brain, you know, because it can't swell and um.

• 8:48Danny Jones?

  To do how, what, what do you, what is a hyperbaric chamber gonna do for your brain?

• 8:51Speaker 01

  It, it like frees up, it oxygenates the brain and, and um, they say that when the injury occurs, like you, you almost get cognitively frozen at a particular time when you, when it happens. Excuse me, but you know, the moral of the story is that um, it led me down this path. My movie character had to go down this path, you know? And uh, I'm grateful for it as twisted and painful as it's been. And I have a lot of empathy for people with depression because I had this crippling. I couldn't move for weeks. It was like painted my world black and gray. It was like.

• 9:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah, no, it's um, brain injuries are known for being um, they're known for being endocrine disruptors. So they can really affect your hormone regulation and like your testosterone levels. That's why a lot of, a lot of football players or fighters or boxers or whatever that have had those extreme head injuries, they have to do um, hormone therapy. After that.

• 9:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, that, thanks for being open to that, you know, it's hopefully, I know a lot of people. Suffer somewhat things.

• 10:03Danny Jones?

  That explains the depression too, like low, low hormone, low testosterone levels and stuff like that, that, that can affect your whole body, including your mood and your depressive states and all that. So how did you get into uh, all this stuff you're doing now? You wrote two books about giants and uh, like the stone, like Stonehenge and, and this ancient history. Well, how did you get into this world?

• 10:25Speaker 01

  I'm a, I'm a stonemason by trade. So my brother and I run a dry masons business in Weston, Mass. Are you a Freemason? No, no, it's, yeah, people ask that. No, it's like, uh, I study Freemasonry and Rosicrucianism. I think they're interesting. I, you know, we build our projects, utilitarian projects with quarried stone, we redo old walls. We've been at it for like 25, 30 years. And one of the things we like, we're avid hikers. And so we're out in the woods and we keep seeing these constructions that were, uh, thought to be colonial that are more seemingly Native American, anthropomorphic forms, cairns, turtles, serpents. And I'm like, whoa, this seems to be like

• 11:07Speaker 01

  this subtle Native American landscape of stone hidden in New England. And I wasn't the first one to, I found out I wasn't the first one to draw that conclusion. And other researchers have wrote about it. So what I did was, cause I'm kind of a, um, Rain Man, Record Keeper type of guy. I went to the UMass library and started reading the town and county histories to see if there were any occurrences of colonists showing up and documenting pre-existing Native American walls in stone chambers and other structures. And in fact, there are in the historical record. So the, the colonists found Native American stonework in New England. Like other, you know, it's not a great, you know, like, incredible because

• 11:49Speaker 01

  there were stone forts in Tennessee, in the Midwest. We know about all the kivas and stuff. But the thought, the archaeological idea is that Native Americans didn't build with stonework in New England. So by virtue of reading through all these town and county histories, I started to find the most bizarre giant skeleton accounts. Often by, uh, anatomists, scientists of the time, Smithsonian Bureau agents, like buried obscurely in these voluminous documents in a time of inefficient communication. And I was told quickly, these were all hoaxes. I'm like, they have a, they, they reference a lot of the same anatomical anomalies, double rows of teeth, massive jaw bones that fit over the face, femurs that are 28 and 32

• 12:32Speaker 01

  inches long, which are clearly indicating eight, nine foot tall individuals.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  Artifacts found within context in little-known burial techniques described as well. Because one of the arguments is like, these are mastodon bones or animal bones. But no, these are burial mound finds that have contextual context that matches with a lot of Native American burials. But they're absolutely enormous, like the giants in the middle and there's other burials like spokes of a whale. So I'm like, this doesn't read as a hoax. This doesn't make any logical sense, right? So I went down that road. I started to write. I hooked up with Younum, my co-author and buddy. And the gods lined up that I ended up with the show on history.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  A producer who's a friend of mine in Weston, Mass. said, hey, my buddy told me to check out, you know, this presentation you gave or something. What a book I wrote or whatever. No, no, I'm sorry. It was a presentation I gave. And he became more interested in the subject because like my brother and I, you know, blue collar dudes. I think people look at us and like, you know, I'm not blowing smoke up anybody's ass. I really don't have an agenda. I just find it fascinating, right? And so it's like, even the History Channel execs that when we got the first show, it's like, I've never seen two guys seemingly so credible, talk about such outrageous things, you know? So I, you know, people who know us, you know, were former decathletes and coaches and, you know,

• 14:00Speaker 01

  our lives revolve around usually like being nice to people and helping kids and like leading lives that aren't about bullshit and grifting, you know? Right, right. That's cool. So we ended up getting, we made a sizzle reel. It went to the network. Conference, a bunch of networks say, yeah, we want to, you know, we want this, this show. History said, we'll run it straight to a series without a pilot. And we're like, we'll do it. Yeah. Which was cool. So we did our first season of Search for the Lost Giants and. I'll just, you know, give some background.

• 14:37Danny Jones?

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• 15:22Danny Jones?

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• 15:48Speaker 01

  There's this idea like the Smithsonian, they got, you know, giant skeletons in the basement and all that. And there's this massive archaeological cover-up. And I'm a fraud. You know, I work with archaeologists and geologists and scientists, have them on our show, I'm friends with many academics. And the idea that there's some global conspiracy to cover up evidence is, even if it was desired, it'd be impossible, if you know what I'm saying, right? So, we have this, this idea that there's a massive conspiracy to cover this, you know, giant bones up. Yes. And I would say, the only point I'm making is, littered within the Smithsonian's own ethnology reports, their scientists have described the unearthing of massive bones over and over again.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  And so, it's embedded in their records. And in episode two of our show, well, I'll backtrack. And the Smithsonian claims that the largest skeleton that's ever been in their possession is a six-foot- Three, uh, Sioux Native American skeleton with acromegaly. That's like pituitary gigantism. It's a disease condition.

• 16:52Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  So they're claiming that, right? We're in Staleville, Missouri, in episode two. And we find the cave where they, at Puckett's Cave, where they found an eight and a half foot skeleton. And we go through, we, you know, we talked to everyone, we found where, find where it was unearthed. And we go through the microfilm and we find an eight and a half foot skeleton laying on the doctor's office next to six foot and a half Les Eaton. We found a photograph of it. And then 15 days later, it's requested to be shipped to the Smithsonian. And I'm saying that the, the skeleton is there, wired together by University of Missouri archaeologists and shipped to the Smithsonian.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  So like, how does that shrink into something that's less than six foot three? And the Smithsonian's own records have a count after a count that we, Hugh and I read above in our book of similar skeletons that are claimed by the scientists to be over seven foot, over eight foot. So I don't have a time machine. You can only make educated, educated guesses about the past, but to say that this is a ridiculous premise and I'm like, you know, uh, some grifter or weirdo or, you know? The way that the pseudoskeptics often look at the alternative, uh, community of researchers is that it's like, they're my ideological enemy, like in, in, um, politics. I'm not going to yield an inch to them.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  I'm not just going to dismiss what they have to say. I'm going to denigrate them. I'm going to call them racist. I'm going to, you know, do whatever I can to throw red meat to my base because I'm stimulated, because I'm some heroic gatekeeper. And on this end, on the alternative end, I would say, uh, I could run with this narrative that, oh, I'm some maverick fighting the evils of archaeology and I'm a great guy in like, being this bullshit echo chamber of true believers as well. But that's not reality either, you know? Like it, science is apolitical. Science is objective. I need to see and analyze a 10 foot skeleton to, to solve the case. I can't just spin bullshit.

• 18:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? So the moral of the story is, you know? Scientists are like cops. They deal with, they should deal with a lot of shit. They deal with crazy people.

• 19:08Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  And they gotta keep their cool to get the, uh, the respect they deserve. You know what I'm saying? Like, you go through all that hard work. I got my PhD. I am an expert in this field. You know, like Graham Hancock, for instance.

• 19:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  I may not agree with you, but this is what I need to see. For your theory to be accurate. I have to see a 12,000 year old date from some temple site in Egypt at the Syrian or whatever. I need to see this evidence. All the, all the other stuff, all the claims of racism. That, that makes people almost believe in conspiracies. You know what I mean? Like that, that you objectively state what is needed. And then if you show me this, I'm all his, you know?

• 19:51Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah. What did you make of that podcast with him and Flint Dibble?

• 19:56Danny Jones?

  I was pretty impressed with, with Flint at first. I thought, I thought that, uh, I mean Flint definitely did his homework and, and crossed his Ts and dotted his Is with a lot of stuff. But then in hindsight, it seems like he was, he was pretty slick in some moments.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I'll say this, when you put yourself out there. There's a lot of assholes out there.

• 20:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  And the, and, and it's like, you know, the calling for his job or the personally attacking him, you know? And, and it's like, I understand, but it happens on both sides, like Hancock, you know, cock, it's called a racist, right?

• 20:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Dude's in a biracial marriage.

• 20:30Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 20:30Speaker 01

  He's, um, all he's talking about is indigenous rights.

• 20:34Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  Right?

• 20:35Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  He's like a, an empathic humanist.

• 20:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah. Flint knew exactly what he was, uh, he, he, he tried to, he tried to skate through that very, very smoothly on the podcast. But he no doubtedly tried to connect him to Nazis.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:50Danny Jones?

  In that article.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  And, and it's a good point to make or to highlight is that.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  You know, the idea that, you know, you engage in these alternative ideas and somehow it's laced with racism. Excuse me. Now, there's partial truth there. There are like white supremacists who believe like Nazi supermen built the mounds of America and stuff like that. And there was this mound builder myth that Native Americans weren't sophisticated enough to like build the geometric forms and everything they did. So there is, you know, legitimate beefs there. But, you know, they're saying that, oh, Hancock quoted Ignatius Donnelly in his first book and Donnelly said some racist, you know what I mean? Did he really? Yeah, yeah, he had some, but all the scientists of the time, you wouldn't believe

• 21:38Speaker 01

  how freaking racist mainstream science was for the longest time, up into the 30s and the 40s. Right. Just, you know, repulse, I'd, I'd repeat them, but they're like beyond repulsive. But I don't take that and, and paint that, you know, modern day scientists and academics with that brush. It's like they've clearly gone in another direction. So it sounds like a sound argument, like, oh, these, they're all racist by, by Hancock looking for a lost civilization and saying, maybe before the Inca, there was another race or beings that showed up.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  And the, the claim is from kind of the male dominated, white, left wing cult of academia. Sorry, that sounds like, you know, harsh, but it's true, that you're trying to take away the accomplishments of, of these people. Right. But the reality is the Inca, the Aymara, they told the Spanish that the gods and the veracoches built these structures. There's clearly two forms of stonework in, in Peru. And it's not like, oh, you're stiff, you can't do this. It's like the native people are actually telling us there were two different eras, right? But then you go to Malta and the Maltese, what are they like Sicilian farmers who came over in 5800 B.C., but they have legends of giants and, and gods at Gigantea. The Greeks are the same way.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  These old megalithic walls are built by the Cyclops. You go over to Ireland and the Twatha de Danine, these mythical beings with high technology who came from lost continents or islands in the Atlantic are attributed with the making of Newgrange. So I'm not getting in a fistfight with Sully at a bar in Southie because I said, no, the Irish ancestors didn't do it. But it's a charged racist thing with these other cultures that aren't white, right? Like, um. And I'll go, so, so there you go. There's the scope of it. And I'm saying like.

• 23:33Danny Jones?

  It's also stupid. It's also dumb. I just had a genomics professor on here a couple of days ago and he was explaining how out of all like the plant, all the plant, plants and, and other organisms that exist on this earth. We are the most homogenous one, meaning that like out of all, he studied all the human genomes and our genomes are so similar, it's insane. There's so few variants from the blackest person in Africa to the whitest person in Finland. There, he said that, um, all of the common ancestors of humans today came from like 10,000 humans. There was a bottleneck in humanity like, like tens of thousands of years ago.

• 24:16Danny Jones?

  And he's saying that like, we are so closely related. It's, it's unbelievable.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  It's, it's the binary system. It's left and right. You know, we should have like a five party system, like, you know? But it's like, I'm in an echo chamber. The algorithms are weaponizing my preferences. So I go and I'm addicted to outrage. Everybody is, right? It's like, instead of like, if you're a good person, go work at the homeless shelter. Don't pretend you're online. Uh, being good. You're a freaking like a coke addict looking for another hit and that's fine. And I speak, you know, I was in that zone myself for a while and it made me want to take like a hundred showers. And I don't want to belabor this racist thing. I just want to like put it out there because like honestly, a lot of pseudo skeptics feed information to like the guardian and they do these hit pieces. Without asking Hancock's opinion of the matter, right?

• 25:05Speaker 01

  And that's not cool. You know what I mean? It's like, that's, that's like.

• 25:10Danny Jones?

  I also don't like what Flint did when he was on my podcast where he said that people who purchased these on the antiquities market markets are like doing a disservice to history. Or like they should belong in museums, they shouldn't belong. He said that people who purchased the these ancient Egyptian artifacts on the antiquities market are contributing to like a black market or like contributing to cartels and this kind of stuff. And I don't buy that. That seems like a cop out. That seems like, I don't know what that is, but that doesn't seem that doesn't seem like it's coming from a, from a, from a good place.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  One of my greatest teachers said agenda makes you stupid. And I'm not saying I'm not disinflatable. I'm sure he was a nice guy and we probably get

• 25:52Danny Jones?

  No, he was. I liked him. Me and him got along great.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was gonna say, we probably shoot the breeze for like three hours and laugh our ass off. It's just, I understand where he's coming from. Like, there's a lot of assholes out there. There's a lot of pseudoscience out there. There's a lot of bullshit. There's no peer review in the alternative realm, right? So there's a lot of good artists and grifters. And there's a lot of well intentioned people who get it wrong too, because it is not their books, their presentations are not put up for peer review. They don't get critically analyzed. I could sit here and tell you, and they get these like softball like interviews with true believers and podcasts. So it's like, if I could spin you one side of a story and make myself appear to be the big hair who has all the answers. But if you objectively debate with someone, so you know,

• 26:38Speaker 01

  Dibbles up against some real assholes who like denigrate him, or they call for his job. And

• 26:45Speaker 01

  that's why I've like

• 26:46Danny Jones?

  Oh man, it's vicious.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  It's vicious, right?

• 26:48Danny Jones?

  The people that are against him online. It is like, it is the most extreme cult I've ever seen.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  And bingo. And you know, the left wing is its own virtue signaling, DEI, ESG cult.

• 27:01Danny Jones?

  Of course.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  And like if I say transgender, a man who transitions to a woman, I'm like I said, a former coach, should not be allowed to participate in women's sports. That's like obvious. But I think like Congressman Seth Moulton just said that out of Massachusetts and Tufts is going to like, gonna stop doing business with him or something. It's like

• 27:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  That is like, so

• 27:21Danny Jones?

  A few years ago, you'd get kicked off social media for doing that, for dead naming somebody or

• 27:25Speaker 01

  Exactly. And it's, Trump's victory is a repudiation of all that, you know? And I like to think of myself as moderate. And I really feel like people understand the weapon, the algorithms are weaponizing preferences and they're getting you addicted to outrage. Yeah. I mean, being a coach helped me, like, I got conservative parents, I got liberal parents, they both want the best for the kids. It's like, I don't give a shit what you vote for. Right. Like, it's a different dynamic, but will you indulge me for a second to read a quote and hopefully put the racist thing to bed? Of course. This is what Vine Deloria said. He was a Lakota Sioux elder, voted by Time Magazine

• 28:06Speaker 01

  as one of the greatest religious thinkers of the 20th century. He's an author, he wrote Red Earth, White Lies. He was critical of kind of white mainstream archaeology and anthropology. Mm-hmm. And he actually organized a conference in 1999 in Washington State where he had all these elders share their indigenous wisdom about giants, which is very interesting as well. So people say, oh, this is a fairy tale, you know, giants or whatever. It's like, how can virtually every culture on earth and almost every Native American tribe have these traditions of giants? Hmm. And that's something. When was he from again? What time? What time period? Oh, 80s. I think he passed away in the 2000s. Oh, really?

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Recent, oh yeah. Vine Deloria. "The Indian explanation is always cast aside, let me see, as a superstition, precluding Indians from having acceptable status as human beings and reducing them in the eyes of the educated people to a pre-human level of ignorance. The stereotypical image of American Indians as childlike, superstitious creatures permeates American society because Americans have been taught that scientists are always right, that they have no personal biases, and that they do not lie." Which is, and a lot of indigenous scholars think the same way. It's like, you're dictating to us what we should believe. Because these ideas that the natives have are about floods, they're about giants,

• 29:32Speaker 01

  they're about lost civilizations, and they are a part of the belief system of the ideological enemy of science, which is religion and mythology, right? So it's like, I'm not going to yield an inch, so I'm going to make claims of racism where I kind of subtly and racistically do not listen to the traditions of indigenous people. So I just throw that out there, it's like, time to pull that, you know, if I got like a SS tattoo on my neck and I'm saying Nazi Superman built this and that, you know, you could shit on me, but I'd like to put that to rest because I love working with professionals, I've organized archaeological digs, I sit and I talk to like anthropologists

• 30:12Speaker 01

  for hours on end, I've presented at university campuses and the kids, you know, and I'm like a goodwill ambassador from lunatic fringe, you know, I talk about fish gods and Atlantis and I find these subjects interesting, you know, and I just like, I want a, like in science, you have, I mean, I'm sorry, in medicine, allopathic medicine, alternative medicine, now you have complementary medicine, and I would like to see the same in archaeology and anthropology, hopefully.

• 30:41Danny Jones?

  Right. The first time I learned about you was from a gentleman by the name of Praveen Mohan.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:47Danny Jones?

  He was in here and he was pointing out some of the newspaper articles from like the New York Times from, I want to say it was like the 40s and 50s, maybe? And they were showing actual excavations of these giant skeletons that were found in these mounds in like South America and some of where even in, I think one was in Texas, maybe? And he was pointing out that like you were the like foremost guy around here that's researching this kind of stuff. This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Truework, a clothing company hell-bent on bringing you the most technical, high-performance workwear on the face of the earth. The Truework story begins in the Colorado mountains where a trade worker knew there had to be a better solution than the wet, heavy gear that was weighing him down, and

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• 32:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, first of all, I like him. He's a really solid dude and he's into the traditions like in India. Same thing. I've read all the Vedas.

• 32:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 32:45Speaker 01

  The Ashavakara Gita, Reebuk Gita, all the metaphysical and historical texts of the Hindus and it's wild.

• 32:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  So, you know, what I found is like in 1939 at the Mohis mound in Texas, they found a massive skull. And there's a picture of it and William Duffin was the archaeologist who was like a W P A Works project in 39. And I went to talk to him and he passed away at like 106 a couple of years ago. Yeah, right? But anyways, the skull rests at the Texas Archaeological Research Lab and it's enormous. And then in 1933, George Fisher, head geologist of Pennsylvania, unearthed a seven foot five skeleton.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  Donald Caddzo joins him on the dig. He is Oxford-trained archaeologist. He writes this article about finding a seven-foot-five skeleton, and then about three months later, he's cruising in a van with the seven-foot-five-inch skeleton, talking about it, going to Harrisburg because the Smithsonian requested that it goes there, right? So, that's where I go with this. It's not just like, uh, this drunk farmer from 1720. It is like respected professionals, including in the 50s and 60s, Don Drigu, head of the anthropology department at the Carnegie, at the Cresette Mountain in West Virginia. They were destroying it for an oil and gas project. So, we excavated and he found a seven-foot-two skeleton with massive bone structure, huge jaw, they call it the Adena

• 34:13Speaker 01

  Jaw, and Webb and Snow at the Dover Mound in Kentucky, funded by the University of Kentucky, unearthed another seven-foot skeleton with massive bone structure. The Adena people elongated their skulls. There's all this mystery here, right? So, you might say, "Ah, seven foot, seven foot two, shack's that big," or whatever. But there are so many of these accounts with massive bone structure, with jaw bones that fit over the face, uh, of a much higher percentage than today's population, if you read through all the, all the ancient documents. So, I mean, I'm sorry.

• 34:46Danny Jones?

  So, there was a lot more shacks walking around?

• 34:48Speaker 01

  There was a lot more shacks, but they were like NFL linebackers. They weren't like skinny dudes either. And every explorer you can name encountered giant native chiefs. Tuscaloosa in Alabama, De Soto, you know, him and his father. And the archaeological narrative is, you know, the Indians were like seven foot, five foot seven, five foot eight, and the, the Spanish, the English, they were five-two, five-three, which is true. The general population was, but their leaders, the tall ones, the chiefs, they were on their knees. They towered over all our tallest men. You know, you read the accounts and these explorers who were trained in the art of observation, and they are talking

• 35:29Speaker 01

  about absolutely enormous, um, tribal chiefs, all the way down to Patagonia. Magellan, Drake, De Soto, they all encountered and recorded this happening. So, it's just another, you know, just like polydactylism, extra fingers and extra toes. It's another aspect of the mystery that's ubiquitous. It's found around the world by cultures who had little or no contact. And that, that's what catches my attention.

• 35:56Danny Jones?

  What is the, what's the biggest skeleton excavation that you've seen? A human skeleton that you've actually like looked at?

• 36:04Speaker 01

  Oh, uh, good question. Well, seven foot six at the Mutter Museum in Philadelphia.

• 36:11Danny Jones?

  And where did that one come from?

• 36:12Speaker 01

  Uh, Kentucky. It came from Kentucky, but part of getting it is that they, they sent it to the Mutter Museum with the, with the understanding that they couldn't say where it came from. So I know it's very strange, but they, there's a seven foot six skeleton that's believed possibly to be one of these mound builder giants. But I will say, we have that photograph of like an eight and a half foot skeleton that was found and shipped to the Smithsonian in 1933 that we found during our show in the microfilm and we got it in a book. So it's this picture of Les Eaton, who's over six foot tall, next to an eight and a half foot tall skeleton. So to, to the argument I made, the Smithsonian is claiming that the largest skeleton they ever received was six foot three.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  So that, and I'm not saying, you know, modern day scientists, they don't, they probably don't even know these stories. But at the time, there was a particularly zealous racist, pre-Nazi eugenicist named Dr. Herdlichka that ran the anthropology department with an iron fist. And, oh yeah.

• 37:11Danny Jones?

  What's his name? How do you spell his name?

• 37:12Speaker 01

  Herdlichka.

• 37:13Danny Jones?

  Herdlichka?

• 37:14Speaker 01

  H R D L I C K. Dr. Herdlichka.

• 37:17Danny Jones?

  See, you can find something about this dude. He sounds wild.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  He was, he was a Czech anthropologist. He was, a lot of the early scientists there is right there.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  Actually were into this idea of giants. They were open to it. Their scientists wrote about, you know, a 36 inch circumference skull found by Thomas M. Perrin in Illinois, like massive bones in their ethnology reports. But he was the guy in 1933 who wrote and talked about giants and no more. This is wishful thinking. This is delusions of amateurs and things like that, ignoring the fact that his own scientists had uncovered and reported these things. So, uh, it's a really interesting dynamic. And I'm going to say something that's repulsive, but. He also said some and believed some of the most racist things you can imagine. He wrote and edited the Journal of American Anthropology in 1933. We write about it in our book.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  He said, "The greatest threat to the American population is blending the inferior blood of the one-tenth of the Negro population into the superior white blood of the rest of the, you know, of the white race." And he had all kinds of like, like that. And that's what scientists believed back then. And this is, you know, you have Native American civilizations with these giant chiefs, the tall ones, with these legends of, of cannibalistic warlike giants that are clearly in their traditions. You have magnificent geometric forms that predict eclipses. You have this vast and incredible Native American civilization. But they were denigrated and they were marginalized as, as a ploy to steal their land. And the scientists of the time went along with that, too.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  It's like, we're gonna, we're not gonna embrace any of this mythological, childlike ideas of the Native Americans. We're gonna marginalize them and, and, and that's what happened. So scientists today do not operate like that. But you gotta be honest about this shit that happened in this crucible when modern theories were reformed. And one of the missteps of science is that they pushed away, uh, oral traditions and native indigenous wisdom. So we don't listen to the Inca when they tell us something that lines up with a mythological idea. We don't listen to the natives that have been there for tens of thousands of years when they tell us that giants were a historical reality. That doesn't mean they were, but to dismiss them out of hand in portraying indigenous

• 39:43Speaker 01

  people as superstitious and childlike, you can feel that, too. When you're told about a native tradition, you know, you get this vibe of like, I have respect for their culture, but I don't believe this shit. You know what I mean? That's kinda like what we're taught by science. So, sorry, that's a long-winded way of saying be open to, uh, indigenous. Traditional narratives.

• 40:05Danny Jones?

  There is funny, there's a weird sort of legend around this area of Florida. We're, we're on what's called Indian Rocks Beach right now. The beach that's literally a quarter mile that way is called Indian Rocks Beach. And it's called Indian Rocks Beach because allegedly there's all these Indian burial mounds that are around this area. And there's for some reason, over the last couple hundred years, out of the hundreds and hundreds and thousands of hurricanes that have come up through the Yucatan and gone up the Gulf of Mexico, there's only been maybe two that have hit anywhere close to us. And they've gone probably at least a hundred miles north or south.

• 40:49Danny Jones?

  There's never been a direct hit within like 50 miles of this beach in like a thousand years. And the legend is because there's these Indian burial grounds protecting Indian Rocks Beach. And just last year, not even, not even a year ago, maybe six months ago, there was a report that was in the news where this lady was like redoing her, like building a house. And they like knocked down this huge Indian burial mound and excavated all these bones. And in the last fricking three months, there's been like three hurricanes that have hit us direct. And there's one coming right for us right now, too. That's supposed to hit next week.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  Oh, I didn't know that, that blows.

• 41:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Christ. We wrote about.

• 41:33Danny Jones?

  It's been, this has been the worst three months of hurricanes that we've ever had in this part of Florida.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  We wrote about the, uh, it's called the sores of thunder effects. Anthony Robbins was a mystic and an author who wrote about giants and.

• 41:47Danny Jones?

  Tony Robbins?

• 41:48Speaker 01

  No, no, no. Anthony, um, Anthony Roberts.

• 41:51Danny Jones?

  Oh, Roberts, okay. You know, you know, Tony Robbins has gigantism too.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like.

• 41:57Danny Jones?

  He's got the pituitary thing where he's like got the, he had like a, I think it was a maybe a benign form of, but he's got like the gigantism traits or whatever. And he had that when he was young where he got like really big. He's got the big jaw and the brow. And he's like, he's super tall.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it could be like acromegaly or something like that. So he wrote this, uh, Anthony Roberts, I believe.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Robbins, anyways, wrote about the souls of thunder effect. When they opened the burial mounds around the British Isles, Isles, you would get like these incredible storms come up. And his thought is like these ancient geomancers, they built along ley lines, they used their divination skills to, to build and enchant the landscape. That's a John Michel thing, who was a mentor to Hugh Newman. He's, um, he wrote about how you use certain stones, certain geometry, water and energy lines to transform and enchant the landscape to bring peace and prosperity to the population. It's like this ancient Druidic thought system,

• 43:03Speaker 01

  which is interesting. But every time you would open these burial mounds of the ancients, you would get wild storms and they're all documented and we get pictures of them, like old woodcuts of the explorers would go on the weekends and look for pots and they're digging. And then the second frame is this, this wild storm comes up. And the same thing is this like, you know, natives were into weather shamanism and the mystical world and they, that's another thing that's dismissed, you know, this, this idea that there's another reality that we interface with. And, and I've spent a lot of time with indigenous wisdom keepers, with shamans, with tradition holders, and they tell me, uh, very specific and very

• 43:46Speaker 01

  strange stories about the nature of reality, about the invisible realms and stuff like that. And it's my personal experience, but I gotta say that, that, that is exactly what they're saying. So you could dismiss them if you want, or you could say, maybe there was something to the story, you know, just like your burial mound stories, like, um, at least be open to it, I would say. Like, what's your intuition? What's your experience tell you? Right. Like, who is that freaking gatekeeper in your mind? Who is the tyrant that, that is like smugly knows better? The ego, right? Insidious.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Tyrannical, it feeds you self-loathing and doubt and conflict and judgment instead of forgiveness and empathy, you know? Like the subtle voice beneath the surface is your real state, your natural state. And the over-identification with the movie character, like this is the only existence I have, I gotta freaking fight and scratch and I gotta get things externally. That clouds your judgment, that covers you and the worst impulses. And the ego is the conspiracy, you know? There are conspiracies in the world, but the ego is like a bad software program that makes you believe that your only experience is this right here. And that somehow it's like, you know, once they throw you in the ground, you're done.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  Instead of your, the screen of existence, the ocean of existence and not the wave, your real state is eternal, unchanging, blissful. And God's at home and we're the idiots who decided to take a walk. The allegory of the prodigal son, that's what the mystics tell us.

• 45:19Danny Jones?

  Right. I think, I think technology has, has been one of the big reasons that we've sort of lost this connection, this sort of spiritual connection that like we had, you know, like they, like the Native Americans would have back in the day, or like the experience that you get when you're on drugs or on psychedelics like DMT or ayahuasca or whatever, because there's, there's people that talk about how like when they first go to the Amazon or whatever, and they walk out into the jungle barefooted, like all of a sudden, all these deep senses sort of arise, like deep, from deep within them, that have been buried because of this technological advanced society we live in in North America, where we're surrounded by screens, you can call a car to pick you up on, there's an app on your phone to deliver

• 45:59Danny Jones?

  food to your house, like, like it's, it's insane how much like electronic shit and technology and, and.

• 46:10Danny Jones?

  Just the evolution of technology that we've surrounded ourselves with, I think is sort of destroying that connection to whatever sort of, whatever sort of ethereal layer of consciousness that exists out there that some of the ancients would talk about.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Bingo, you nailed it. Even Rudolf Steiner, the mystic, called it Ariman. He called it this dark, cold technological force that would overtake humanity, but it would be chosen by humanity. And I studied with John Gardner. He was super old when I studied with him, like in the eighties, and he actually knew Steiner. Steiner was like a mystic, like Edgar Cayce. And he talked about this cold technology would be accepted and wanted. So at the time, we're like, what is this technology that's coming around? My friends who studied Steiner, like, we joke, it's like, oh, you're putting on the helmet, or they're gonna have a TV that you have to leave on 24 hours a day in your house. We didn't know it would be the iPhone.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  It would be this insidious, dark, cold technology that brought about the worst impulses in humans. It agitates you, it gets you addicted to outrage. And just be honest, you know what I mean? We've all been, you know-

• 47:18Danny Jones?

  Dopamine slot machines.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  Bingo, right? And I don't want to talk up my game, but you know, part of my spiritual journey and my plant medicine ceremony is to look at all my embarrassing behavior, all my shortcomings, all my judgments, all my desperation around, you know, as my soulmate, you know, this heartache that we often feel. So I sat and I burned out the [BLEEP] for years. I sat in silence for a long, you know, going Aaron Rodgers or whatever. I live in a 10 foot by 12 foot cabin, 10 foot by 12 foot. I have virtually no possessions. I drive in a beat up old truck. I've been single for years. And I've come to a place of being, never being lonely, completely thrilled to be at peace in a meditative state, or to hang

• 48:03Speaker 01

  out with friends and stuff. And my life is oriented around like serving anybody I can. Not like because I'm a fake good guy, because I feel like the world [BLEEP] bores me to tears, you know what I mean? I dig ancient mysteries. I like metaphysics, you know, mix in a little Celtics or whatever. But like the world of distraction and conflict blows the shit out of me.

• 48:24Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  And when you like reside and surrender into your real state, it's so enthralling. You're like, I can't believe I am that. You know what I mean?

• 48:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 48:33Speaker 01

  So it's magnetizing us all, but we're swimming against the river.

• 48:36Danny Jones?

  We really are.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  We really are, right?

• 48:38Danny Jones?

  Strong river.

• 48:39Speaker 01

  And it's like.

• 48:39Danny Jones?

  Niagara Falls is not far.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  Bingo. And the moral of the story is you already are perfect. You're like, and we think of that in the context of a weird movie character who's temporary. I'm talking about your real state behind the scenes and you can experience it in your temporary movie character. Excuse me, but it's like surrendering into that state versus swinging against the river. Because we falsely believe this is all we are. So you, you got right. I need some more money or I need a new girlfriend or I need, you know what I'm saying?

• 49:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Because I feel like shit about myself because I falsely believe um what I am not. And especially a character that the times, you know, you're on the clock in a, in a body. You know what I mean? I gotta get. And now I just sit in silence. I don't freaking want anything. And I'm not saying that makes me right, but I like to think it positions me well to objectively take on these controversial mysteries. Do shows, do all this other stuff I do.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  Because I could feel like the overstimulation hap, you know, you're filming, millions of people watching you. Like the cameras are always following you around, you know, and my brother and I are pretty grounded and level headed. But I could feel that like the coke head part of me getting wound up, you know, it's like, oh, some MILF sent me a message. You know what I mean? It's just like, sorry, but it can be overstimulating and I'm like, that, you know, it's not like, it's not that I'm so good. It's that it reads disingenuous and, and it makes me feel like shit.

• 50:08Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  And I'll, I'll tell a story here, uh, if you, if you'll indulge me for a sec. I did a ceremony. When I came with the Shamanista and I asked, which guide me because I'm going to talk to this dude that I have these karma contanglements with and has this, you know, the, you see Main Street media is dying, right? I mean, like CNN is laying everybody off and

• 50:35Danny Jones?

  We learned that better than ever in this last election.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  Exactly. So these formats are the new news. They're like just growing in popularity, which is great. And I applaud you on you and on creating this, this way to communicate. But I'm in a ceremony, like I asked the spirits, you know, guide me and show me. And what I got was this, like, I was thrust into the field of the one that Rumi talks about. Beyond concepts of good and bad, there is a field, I will meet you there. You know, that like, thank God, I don't have to do anything to become what I already am. Right? Just like that, that breath of fresh air. And Rumi was enlightened, her feast was enlightened, Ramana Maharshi, Jesus, Buddha,

• 51:18Speaker 01

  they are, have liberated themselves and wrote about what it's like to be in the state of the one. So I'm in the realm of the one and I'm given a life review and I see my entire, the scope of my life. It's like every time I was arrogant, judgmental, critical, argumentative, it wasn't even like it was a real thing. It was just false and untrue. It was just like this lame energy that went nowhere. And every time I was empathic and compassionate and helpful, I could just see this incredible, like, this is what you really are. This is the energy that's waking you up. And this is what you, this is how you should behave, not out of good or bad,

• 52:03Speaker 01

  it's because it's your real state. You know how like judgment feels like

• 52:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 52:07Speaker 01

  And holding the door and smiling for somebody just feels good, right?

• 52:09Danny Jones?

  Absolutely.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  So it's, it's not some new way, it's like a reality. This is what you are. And it revealed it to me. And then you showed up. And I could see that we had different lifetimes together. I know that's a strange concept, but most of the world believes in reincarnation. All the masters teach it. And you are like an alchemist, like Ewan Rogan, that sets the stage for events like this can happen. Like you're, you're objective, you're open-minded, you're self-reflective, and you don't take yourself too seriously. You're just like, let's create this platform. It's like Plato's Academy. Honestly, that's what Plato did. He would just open up

• 52:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  the realm of ideas. So I applaud you for that, but it was, it was wild. It was wild. And I know it's just like,

• 52:55Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  I can't like, I don't know if a bunch of ironworkers are gonna know what I'm talking about. It's my experience. It just is what it is. You know what I mean?

• 53:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  And, and I thought it was just a real cool happening, you know?

• 53:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah, man. That is super cool. That is very cool. What, um, so you, from when I talked to Hugh, uh, he was telling, he was kind of explaining to me that you are, are really big into the investigation of the background of the Atlantis story as well.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:25Danny Jones?

  And from what I understand, uh, Ignatius Donnelly was one of the first people to actually write a book about Atlantis, right? I forget the name of his, uh, his book, but, um, I had, uh, Flint come on to talk about Atlantis. And at all the shit that Flint talked about me, me and him disagreed on a lot of stuff. We disagreed on the vases, the Egypt stuff.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:47Danny Jones?

  But one of the things that I think that made a lot of sense that Flint said that I just can't get out of my mind is his, uh, the way he explained Atlantis and the backstory of Atlantis. It's hard to find a housekeeper you can trust to take care of every nook and cranny of your house, especially when you're not home. And between my messy kids and recording these podcasts every day, it's easiest not to steal the time away from the end of my day to clean. And that's where today's sponsor, Bubbly Cleaning, has swooped in to save the day. It's a home cleaning service that's consistent and affordable. It's easy to select a trusted cleaner based on reviews. And after seeing the people they employ, I have 100% trust in their service. I schedule a cleaning for almost every week and even for events and parties. And the best part is, it's a huge relief for the wife. So I'm losing less time during

• 54:29Danny Jones?

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• 55:13Danny Jones?

  location, Greece and the time 12,000 to 15,000 years ago in that area of Athens time. It lines up perfectly with the story of Atlantis and the people who are writing about Atlantis and Plato and all that stuff. So, um, the way he explained it to me, and I also had another friend of mine who is a classical philologist who has dedicated the last 30 years of his life to reading the ancient Greek literature. He read just an endless amounts of philosophy, history, comedy,

• 55:50Danny Jones?

  and pharmaceutical texts and medical texts in antiquity. Um, and his ideas on Atlantis, as well as Flint's ideas on Atlantis seemed to line up. Um, particular specifically in the fact that Plato seemed to be a philosopher who was known for coming up with hypothetical philosopher, philosophical, hypothetical ideas on like how to build the idea, ideal sim city, or coming up with war games, which was the idea of the Timaeus and Critias, where they were coming up with a war game between Athens and this hypothetical.

• 56:37Danny Jones?

  Advanced city of Atlantis and what would happen in that hypothetical war is similar to his hypothetical idea of Plato's cave, right? Like though we don't, one of the main points that Flint brought up is Plato's cave, the allegory of the cave was a philosophical idea and an analogy he was trying to explain for humans to understand. And that's the reason that we're not looking for Plato's cave. Another thing is the, you know, Plato was also really big, like he wanted to censor Homer. He didn't want, he didn't want the kids that were growing up being educated to know anything

• 57:19Danny Jones?

  about Homer because he thought that was not good for society. He wanted to come up with this noble lie for society to basically create this sort of Santa Claus for people to, so people could behave well and act right, not commit crimes. Like he wanted this ideal, this ideal society and he wanted to create this sort of like a noble lie where he thought, I mean, to his credit, he thought that like, you know, the philosopher king should run society, below them should be the knights and all this stuff. So, um, you know, he was known for coming up with these crazy hypothetical abstract ideas and these, these thought experiments, right?

• 58:03Danny Jones?

  And he wasn't known for being a historian. So, and then, so if you combine that with what we know of Plato, with the, the historical timeline of what we know about Atlantis, which is an oral tradition, the first time it was ever talked about was like a thousand years before Solon, right? And then it was an oral tradition for like a thousand years. And then I might be fucking this up, I'm gonna do my best. But then Solon told, uh, Pliny the Elder about it. And then there was like another couple hundred years.

• 58:47Danny Jones?

  And then Pliny the Elder told his grandson, Pliny the Younger, who was 10 years old. And then there was like another hundred years. And then there was like an Egyptian priest who read some sort of texts. Maybe this was before all of it.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  The the temple priests of Seas.

• 59:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the temple priest, right, right.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Transmitted the the story to Solon.

• 59:11Danny Jones?

  To Solon, right, right, right, right. But then there was never any actual evidence of that text like it was. He wasn't actually consulting the text when he told Solon, right? So this was prior to all these uh these transmissions going down this chain over thousands of years. And then um fifty years after Pliny the Elder's grandson, Pliny the Younger, told Socrates, then another fifty years goes by and then Plato writes about it.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. No, tho- those are all good points. Flint is right that uh Athens in nine thousand B.C.

• 59:48Danny Jones?

  Was bedrock.

• 59:49Speaker 01

  There there there's no evidence that it was advanced culture.

• 59:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  So it's like that feeds into like, is this a noble lie or not? You know, is this an allegory?

• 59:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 59:57Speaker 01

  And he did like he he did operate like that.

• 1:00:00Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:00:01Speaker 01

  And you know, these ideas that, excuse me, um. Ju- just because Plato said it doesn't make it factual. It could be like, hmm, this might be worthy of further investigation. That's what I would say. The idea intrigues me, let's see.

• 1:00:17Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  I would say that there are other sources that talk about um, you know, like the Twatha de Danine show up from four island continents, I mean islands, four Atlantic islands. And they show up in ancient Ireland and the these supernatural beings. And you have these stories of lost worlds and gods and the Aldoad and the Eniad and Egypt. And at the temple of Edfu, you have the building text, right?

• 1:00:43Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  I I saw you talking about the uh.

• 1:00:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  The building text, right? So I reached out to Man Osef Sadeh, who is translating them from German to English. Now, Dieter Kerth is a doctor who since nineteen eighty six has been translating the building texts of Edfu into German, right? And the, you know, the old French translations leave a lot to be desired, so. Manu is friends with Dr. Dita Karth and interfaces with him, has him over for dinner, and he's taken the, these incredible texts and he's translating them now into English. So I, I just spoke at the KC conference with, with Manu and I'm friends with him. And I asked him about this dynamic of like, is this, is Hancock's version of the Ed-foo text kind of a, a patchwork of wishful thinking?

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  And he said, no. He got it right, stunningly, because they're very difficult to translate. Ptolemaic hieroglyphs are very, very difficult in context, are very difficult to understand. But he said, you can believe it or not, but these, um, writings about the primeval land and the, and the land of the gods and the first time, they are claiming that there was this lost, um, island of the gods that was destroyed in the flood. In the Ed-foo text? In the Ed-foo text. And when were the Ed-foo texts, Ed-foo texts written? It was a Ptolemaic temple, so, you know, 200 B.C. I hope I got that date right, but they- So after Plato wrote about it? But no, no, they, the traditions go way, way back. They're, they're oral traditions carried and written down.

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  And like the pyramid texts of Unas are, are super ancient, but they're even from more ancient traditions. And I will say Homer talked about Agigia, that's his Atlantis. Agigia? Oggigia. Oggigia. In the middle of the Atlantic. Yes, Agigia, the Agigian flood Plato talked about in Laws, Book Three, and he says it was 10,000 years before the invention of writing and music. So the date is like 10,600 B.C. That Plato points to for the time of the Agigian flood. And Plutarch, and there's another geographer who's escaping my attention now, said that Agigia lay five days west of England in the middle of the Atlantic.

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  That they, they pinpointed this, this Agigian paradise in the middle of the Atlantic. Oh, there we go.

• 1:03:04Danny Jones?

  A Gidian flood is a flood in ancient Greek mythology that occurred during the region of Oghidius, a mythical king of Attica and Bo- Boeotia?

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  Boeotia.

• 1:03:14Danny Jones?

  Boeotia.

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  Fact checked in real time.

• 1:03:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah, look at that.

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  Community knows.

• 1:03:21Danny Jones?

  Interesting, it says survivors moved to Egypt, which was called Oghidia. Can you scroll down a little bit more so we can see like, uh, like a timeline maybe, or like dates? Oghidius, what happened to Oghidia? Is it, click on the Wikipedia.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  Plato gives it a date of like 10,600 B.C. I believe.

• 1:03:39Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  In Laws 3. It's for Homer, it's this myth, or this, this age of the gods, this ancient time. Man, one thing I find interesting is like, we have a cold case, right? The science, anthropology, archaeology, they're a different kind of science. It's not like biomedicine.

• 1:03:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  Or physics or math, where you can keep repeating the same.

• 1:04:00Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:04:01Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  So it's a more ephemeral, difficult science. And that's not to disparage, uh, professionals, because it's really hard. So you get to find a new site. You got a carbon test, you got to have things in context. There's a lot to it.

• 1:04:15Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  Excuse me. So I, being the weirdo that I am, and I'm willing to go anywhere for a good story, and I bring in the, the, uh, clairvoyants, the psychics, Edgar Cayce, Rudolf Steiner, Madame Blavatsky, the Rosicrucians, the Freemasons. And what's stunning is every one of those groups or mystics say that Atlantis was a historical reality. There was a cataclysm that destroyed it. Humans were originally androgynous, a byproduct of genetic engineering.

• 1:04:49Danny Jones?

  What does that word mean, androgynous?

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  Sexless beings, you know, kind of like my love life. It's like...

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  It's it's either possessing two sets of of sexual organs or none, you know, it's really, it's weird. Even Plato says, you know, Aristophanes displays the myth of the ancient androgen, and Zeus cuts us down the middle. We were first androgynous. Plato talks about it. Plato talks about Atlantis as a historical reality. Plato talks about the immortality of the soul. So all these skeptic, I'm skeptics, psychics are claiming the same strange and specific thing. And you could say, ah, maybe they just took information from each other. But it's like, the Rosicrucians and Freemasons, they're kind of like, tight to the vest with their info, you know? You read through their documents, you talk to people who are Rosicrucians and

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  Freemasons, and they're like, they believe all their esoteric wisdom flows back through Egypt to Atlantis. So that that's just interesting. So I'm open to these ideas. To get back to Agigia, Madame Wawatski said that Homer was correct. He was the first one. The bard of Ulysses understood that Agigia was Atlantis, you know? So there's other, you could say, I don't believe in Atlantis. The Aztecs call it Astaland, you know, all these, all these indigenous people have beliefs about a lost continent, La Marea in the Pacific, Atlantis. I could get into play tectonics and that it might be somewhat of a flawed theory, but

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  I don't want to because it's a long, I'm just saying, be open to the idea. And as a professional, it's like, you know, this is what I need. You know, we got to go over the mid-Atlantic range, and we got to find this, and this is the evidence I need. And, you know, I'll reference, you know, I'm not here fighting a proxy war for Graham Hancock. I like, I like Graham a lot. And he's the one who got me into like ayahuasca, so I'm indebted to him. And he's just pushing boundaries. He's a maverick, and he's looking for, you know, Atlantis in this lost race. And that's cool. Because a lot of, the mystics of old, like Plato, you ever wonder why his, his work is like almost so flawless? Albert North Whitehead says, Western thought is a series of footnotes to Plato. You know, Plato was

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  a genius, Pythagoras.

• 1:07:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah, and Aristotle.

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  Aristotle, the scientists of old. Were a blend of of spiritual, uh, how do I say it? They were spiritual scientists.

• 1:07:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  They engaged.

• 1:07:22Danny Jones?

  They were all doing drugs, man.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  Doing like ethnogens, they were engaging in rituals.

• 1:07:28Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:07:29Speaker 01

  They were liberating themselves from the false self, from the judgments and the ego self. So thus they were well prepared and objective to take on both sides of the street. The the invisible realms and the visible realms and, you know, so it's like. They did that. So the the scientists of today would be. How it would be helpful. Like I say, skeptics are more afraid of ayahuasca than they are Atlantis. You know, I know I'm being a wise guy, but and I don't even want to diss anyone. I'm just saying like, you know, you might want to mix in a little plant medicine ceremony or some metaphysical, usually like when you have trauma or somebody you love dies or some crazy happens, you get a portal into the other realm, you know? So some people get it that way.

• 1:08:12Speaker 01

  It's like it shouldn't have to happen that way to to see through the veil of of this matrix. You know? So, once again, I would like a blending of spirituality and science. That would be cool in my estimation and we'll see where it goes. I I think I think the Trump election, and I'm a moderate. Uh, it's a repudiation of of some of these ideas of of grievance archaeology, of of dictating through a virtue signaling cult like lens of what the past is like and how people should behave. It's like all my lefty friends are like, they feel like they got to walk on eggshells all the time. Or do I get my pronouns right? Do I get the right flag in my, you know, profile and all that? It's like people want to be left to alone, you know what I mean?

• 1:08:56Speaker 01

  Like Native Americans voted in the largest democratic way.

• 1:09:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  For Trump.

• 1:09:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:03Speaker 01

  Right? So it's like. I'm a cracker. I'm, you know, I'm whitey telling you and dictating what racism looks like and how to protect you.

• 1:09:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:09:11Speaker 01

  It's like, I don't, some of the most pragmatic people I know are native people, you know?

• 1:09:16Danny Jones?

  Yes, yes. You know, some of that, I feel like some of that really only exists on social media and places like Twitter and a little bit of YouTube and stuff like that. You know, my friend Julian Dory has this great theory. He's a born and raised in New Jersey kid. And he's got this theory he calls the Wawa theory. He's like, if you go online and you look at some of like the far right or far, far left, most bloodthirsty corners of the internet and see how riled up everyone is. He goes, if you want to reel it mis test a reality, go to a Wawa. He's like, if I go to, if I see, if I go to a Wawa, he goes, I see the guy with the, I see the, the girl with the green hair, holding the door for the old guy with the Vietnam hat.

• 1:10:00Danny Jones?

  Reality is that it's not really what you see on social media and it's, it's almost like the people who spend the most time on social, if you spend too much time on these fucking screens, that sort of becomes your reality.

• 1:10:13Speaker 01

  Bingo. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's remarkable.

• 1:10:18Danny Jones?

  People don't interact like that in real life, man. When you go to Wawa, you don't act like that to people.

• 1:10:23Speaker 01

  No, no, it's funny because you know, I'm whatever. Like I said, I'm the, try to be the goodwill ambassador from lunatic fringe, but it's like, here's the giant dude, you know, this, this cat's out of his fucking mind, you know, but it's like, I'm working with, I've never got dissed in my face, you know what I mean? It's like,

• 1:10:41Speaker 01

  and I like a good debate. I don't want softballs. I'm going to figure out the truth for real. I absolutely feel that and it's a manufactured, you know, you can get into like the CIA, you know, go listen to Bobby Kennedy Jr. And you know, they iced his father, they iced

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  John and my house was like a shrine to the Kennedys when we grew up, right? My, my parents grew up in East Boston. My mother was Irish Catholic.

• 1:11:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:04Speaker 01

  MLK, John and Bobby Kennedy all over the freaking house.

• 1:11:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  It was like, the promise was that the Democrats were going to deliver a world without war, a world of sanity, a world of, of respect for everyone.

• 1:11:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:11:17Speaker 01

  And then the left started falsely believing that's coming back if we get the right candidate, if we get back in power and it never fucking happened. Biden passes the largest defense bill in human history. The left loves World War III now. We're fighting this fucked up proxy war in, in Ukraine and. Putin is like, we're putting trillions of dollars in the US and because it's the reserve currency, that's what's causing inflation, not supply chain bottlenecks. And he's just like, you know, they had England and the United States pulled Ukraine away from the peace negotiating table, right?

• 1:11:53Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 1:11:54Speaker 01

  And then The Guardian before was a left wing rag was writing about that and cozying up to neo Nazis and what, you know, the US is hankering for World War III. And now it's just like, oh, the freedom fighters have taken on, you know, because Putin has some conservative views about like LGBT, you know, people and stuff like that. And so he's become this demon, you know, and I've never heard him, he says like, I'm all for people believing what they want and doing what they want, you know, I'm not going to get into that debate. The moral of the story is like, you have this insidious control system that divides people. That's why they're easy to control. Like I said, you hold the door for someone, you give a shit about someone.

• 1:12:34Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:12:34Speaker 01

  And I felt it myself with the whole COVID thing. I got vaxxed, I got boosted because I thought I was being a good citizen. And then I'm taking a step back and I'm looking how people are treated like, like Aaron Rodgers.

• 1:12:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:47Speaker 01

  Is it Djokovic? Who was the tennis player or Nadal or whatever?

• 1:12:50Danny Jones?

  Oh, I don't remember the tennis guy.

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  And they're totally getting demonized, right? Like they're complicit in mass murder. And I'm like, so anyways, it happens on the right too. I don't want to get long, too late. I don't want to get too long winded, but I just want to say that you're, you're absolutely right. Get the fuck off unless you listen to your podcast, get off the internet.

• 1:13:09Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  Get off, if you start feeling like shit and you're addicted to outrage, it's a red flag, you know?

• 1:13:14Danny Jones?

  Right. Well, I think the podcast shit is a good antidote to the internet extreme shit because you can just put your headphones in and listen to something uninterrupted for three hours. That's what I thought was so cool about that Trump podcast. Because this is a guy who has this, he is probably the most, absolutely the most famous human being on earth. And he's been hyper famous for decades, right? And he's got this incredible brand, this real estate, this real estate and entertainment sort of brand, right? Larger than life personality. But he exists in these overly produced television shows, commercials, uh, and if you look at

• 1:13:54Danny Jones?

  the news, like it's, it's all kind of opinion commentary, short clips and, you know, summaries

• 1:14:02Danny Jones?

  But there's what has not existed until now is a long form, three hour, uncut stream of consciousness from that guy. And I thought that was like the most profound thing that happened with that podcast is like you actually have to see right through this guy and see what he's really about. Is he full of shit? Is he just a pull string puppet who just repeats the same shit over and over again? Or can he hold a real conversation? Does he actually have real beliefs? What we know, what is he? How does he think?

• 1:14:33Speaker 01

  One thing is that the maverick thinkers in the Democratic Party have been pushed out RFK Junior, Tulsi Gabbard. They're not sociopaths, you know, they're, they're, um, they're marketing conspiracy, you know, the trafficking conspiracy and all this shit. Right. Like I was my left friends. I was like, I like RFK Junior, man. He talks about

• 1:14:50Danny Jones?

  I love that guy.

• 1:14:51Speaker 01

  Fuck. This is how the CIA was formed. This is how they operate. And like, I don't want to end up dead in the dumpster, but you know, this, this cat is right on.

• 1:14:58Danny Jones?

  And he's the first president talking about this crazy epidemic of cancer and autism and diabetes and obesity in the country. Like that is the number one problem. That's like the biggest killer out of anything. And he's the first president to actually talk about that shit in his campaign. That's, that's insane.

• 1:15:18Speaker 01

  And Elon Musk comes out of the gate. It's like the war mongers were coming after you, you know? And he's saying like, you know, Pfizer, Big Pharma, Bobby Kennedy saying, Junior saying, keep your receipts, you know, like that's not fascist. But, but you know, Trump, like all of us, he's flawed. He's, I admire like, I'm like a recovering Catholic, you know, so I got all these up hangups, you know? And it's like, I can only imagine being so embarrassed in, in the public eye, you know, all the trials and all the like, God, you know, having your, your past indiscretions brought up and stuff like that. The point is that he's not pure evil and

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  he's not sent by God to save the world either, you know, be objective about it. And like 97% of DC voted for Harris, right? Is that a lead us out of touch or what? You know, you know what I'm saying? Like, And that doesn't, you know, I don't want to dismiss her, but they were just looking, you know, the neo cons got completely behind her. Dick Cheney, you're like the war machine, universally voted for, you know, she's out, you know, I'm not going to do, well, whatever. She's, she's not like savvy. She doesn't understand economic policy. She's kind of a figurehead. So they, this insidious plan can keep unrolling. We sell weapons around the world, you know, we're, um, leading to a path of destruction. So Trump's a hand grenade. We'll see what happens.

• 1:16:42Speaker 01

  But I would just say, you know, being in the middle and more objective is a much saner place to be.

• 1:16:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:47Speaker 01

  Because it's honest. It's like, I got my issues. I'm riddled with flaws. If I spend all my time demonizing someone, that's a fucking red flag.

• 1:16:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah. No, I mean, at the very least, like, if you want to call these guys, these, these people, like, if you want to call Trump like a sociopath or a liar, like, I'm sure he's lied before. I'm sure he's got some narcissistic, possibly even, I don't know if he's a, I wouldn't go as far to call him a sociopath, but I mean, you absolutely have to be a narcissist to some degree to want to be the president of the United States. But like, at, at the very least, if he is lying, I mean, she's been caught, I mean, her and, uh, Walz, like, literally have, like, lied their ass off objectively, like, it's been discovered, like, it's been exposed, all those lies that they told during their campaign. But like, if Trump's lying about all the shit that he's saying, at the very

• 1:17:36Danny Jones?

  least, he's pretending to want to end the wars. He's pretending to support Bitcoin, and he's pretending to try to, like, push this healthcare initiative with Bobby Kennedy. So like, I'm gonna take that over her any fucking day of the week.

• 1:17:50Speaker 01

  Early on, he was one of the only critics of the Iraq war. You had all the Democrats lining up, all the Republicans.

• 1:17:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah. He's saying he wants to free, uh, he wants to, uh, release the JFK files, first of all. He wants to release Ross Ulbricht. So we'll see if he does this stuff. He says he's gonna do it, like, first thing when he gets into office.

• 1:18:06Speaker 01

  Yes. And I just gotta say, Iraq war, Afghanistan war, once we start, you know, all this immoral superiority we feel as a country, man, our, our government acts in real bad faith, you know, mass murder, you know what I mean? We traffic weapons around the planet. We're not the fucking good guys, you know what I mean? And, uh, enough of that, you know what I mean?

• 1:18:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:27Speaker 01

  And we'll, we'll see where Trump goes, you know, he could go off the deep end. He could like really high like at least just to talk about it. Like we spend with thirty six trillion in the hole. You know what that means economically? Right? The Fed raises interest rates. They hold it too long. Everything's cracking beneath the scene. We get the commercial real estate going on. We get the euphoria from the Trump um election right now.

• 1:18:49Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  The ten year can move it up. You know, there's a lot. The bond market is the world's investment market. It's not the stock market. The bond market is huge. The Japanese and the Chinese are dumping them because of toxic debt. Uh, with thirty six trillion dollars in the hole once again. So the, the, the ten year, the, it's going to become more costly. Right? We pay a trillion dollars a year in, in, in um interest payments on our fucked up debt. We're like a, a coke head kid who blew all the inheritance of our parents and, and now we're like in all this like good economic data is fueled by spending by it's, it's debt fueled prosperity. That has to end and it gets worse because now we're going to pay exponentially for the interest on the debt.

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  That's a long winded way of saying we have an insidious system and, and stop fighting left and right and see and demand at least a temporary world of peace as a springboard to awaken and get the fuck out of the matrix. You know what I'm saying? Like just demand peace. You know what I mean? I don't give a shit who the candidate is. Talk about wars. Talk about what's going on. You know? Shit on Netanyahu is not the same as, as you know, it gets conflated with antisemitism. I got Jewish friends and they think he's a piece of shit. You know what I mean?

• 1:20:04Danny Jones?

  Of course.

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:20:04Danny Jones?

  Lots of them. Me too.

• 1:20:05Speaker 01

  And he's a sociopath and he operates like we, when I go to Iraq or I go to Egypt and you know? I hope I'm not held accountable for the misdeeds of the US government. You know what I mean? Just like you know, Jewish people probably feel this like disgust at how their government is operating, just like US citizens abroad feel the same way. It's like this doesn't represent me, man.

• 1:20:27Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  So anyways, uh, I don't want to go down that rabbit hole uh too much. I just want to express that. You know what I mean? Be kind to each other and demand a better world, not based on judgment and addiction to being right, but like empathy, you know?

• 1:20:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, we'll see, we'll see if like, you know, because the media is clearly owned by the left wing establishment and the, the party essentially, the, the regime. So, and, and it's clearly that they got to figure out, you know, they don't know what the they were doing, especially with this election, they got really arrogant and they don't understand how this landscape works. They obviously were not able to like read the room as to like what was going on and with her like literally trying to dictate how she was going to do the Trump podcast, like you have to come to me and it's only going to be one hour because I'm too busy. Meanwhile, the following week, she literally cancels a rally and her plane does a U-turn in midair so she can go do SNL.

• 1:21:26Danny Jones?

  So like you'll cancel a rally for SNL, but you're too busy to do Joe Rogan, you're going to make him come to you? Like that's whoever was in charge of that, they like, maybe they're going to try to like, they're going to try to figure out what the they did and try to figure out a, a new strategy here because Trump is clearly trying to, it looks like what he's trying to do is, is bring more unity. I mean, he just came out saying that he was going to like pay off her debts or something like that recently. And like for the sake of unity and to bring the country together. So we'll see if he can try to like turn this thing around and be more of like a JFK 2.0.

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. The autopsy of the democratic strategy isn't going too well. It's not, there's not a lot of self-reflection. It's like, oh, we should have got, Biden should have dropped out earlier, not like, what is your message? You know, I could be a brilliant campaign strategist, but nobody would listen to me. You know, they force out Bernie Sanders. I don't agree with his economic policies, but at least he's better than a lot they put out there. They, they push away RFK Junior. Like it's like. We're gonna work for people, we're gonna work for, you know, you focus on economic needs, you go, I'm gonna have Republicans in my cabinet, well, you know, we're gonna like, work together in a bipartisan way for real.

• 1:22:46Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:22:47Speaker 01

  None of that. It's like, the cult members, the cult members who remain in the DNC are doubling down, you know what I mean? Like, Trump, you know, he's a racist, he's gonna like deport everyone, he's gonna do all this evil, you know, so, I hope what you're saying is right.

• 1:23:04Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:23:05Speaker 01

  But what we really need is a multi-party system that doesn't have political machinery and funding behind it.

• 1:23:10Danny Jones?

  And term limits.

• 1:23:11Speaker 01

  And term limits, and Trump's been talking about that, so...

• 1:23:13Danny Jones?

  Yup.

• 1:23:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, we'll see where it goes. This is just for people who like, you know, and I'm like a lefty my whole life, because, like I said, I had this-

• 1:23:21Danny Jones?

  So was I.

• 1:23:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, this glorious dream of Bobby and John coming back-

• 1:23:26Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 1:23:27Speaker 01

  And liberating us from the octopus, you know, and it didn't happen.

• 1:23:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah, no, I was same, I was same way, raised like, super, super-left wing by my mom, who was a, has a master's degree in fine arts, lived her whole entire life in the university system, still that blue no matter who, and, you know, like, having conversations with her nowadays is like, phew.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  I know, it's rough.

• 1:23:51Danny Jones?

  Tough.

• 1:23:52Speaker 01

  It's rough. Thankfully, my parents are in the other realm, God bless them, but we never talk politics, you know?

• 1:23:57Danny Jones?

  The Democrats today are, now they're like, the ones that support the Iraq war. It's crazy.

• 1:24:02Speaker 01

  Uh, that's true, and the intolerance that came out of left that I never dealt with, you know, I never saw that, because, and it's not to shit on anyone, because there's a shit of intolerance on the right, there's like a religious cult thing, evangelical thing on the right, that's a little over the top, and there's more of an atheistic cult thing on the left, you know, and it is what it is. It's more like, you know, evaluate what's going on, this binary dynamic and how it doesn't work.

• 1:24:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:32Speaker 01

  And, yeah. I did want to, can we shift gears and talk about fish gods?

• 1:24:37Danny Jones?

  Let's shift gears, talk about fish gods. Before we do that, I gotta take a leak real quick, take a quick pause.

• 1:24:42Speaker 01

  Fish gods!

• 1:24:43Danny Jones?

  Alright, we're, are we going, Steve?

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  Uh, we're still going.

• 1:24:46Danny Jones?

  Alright, let's talk about some fish gods.

• 1:24:50Speaker 01

  Which is great, man. It's like, uh, that is so seemingly absurd. I love it.

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  Wasn't Varikosh a fish god? Uh, let me start, if you would indulge me, by quoting Carl Sagan. Okay. First of all, I'll say that all around the world, the wisdom keepers, the culture heroes of virtually every culture,

• 1:25:15Speaker 01

  they were androgynous, amphibious, brother and sister, husband and wife, self-fertilizing genetic engineers, who taught the arts of civilization, repaired the heavens after cataclysm, and have many other traits in, um, common, which is like right off the bat. And these are cultures that had little or no contact. Wow. And I'll talk about, uh, your boy Varikosh in a minute. Yeah. So, let me put on my old man glasses here. And this is Carl Sagan, right? Okay. So, Oanis is the, the fish dude who shows up and teaches the arts of civilization that Barosus talks about, right? He has this strange bag. You see it in the Sumerian iconography, right?

• 1:26:00Speaker 01

  He's described by Barosus in 280 B.C. in Babylonia. We have his, which is no longer with us, but Eusibius of Caesaria and Alexander Polyhistor, Polyhistor, wrote about the work of Barosus in their works. So that's a long-winded way of saying, he talks about how, when, you know, in the early times, this fish being comes out of the river and teaches the arts of civilization to the ancient Sumerian people. And he's, he's literally got like a fish's tail and a human aspect to it too. And that's what you see in the iconography. So, we're being told that Oanis is one of these beings.

• 1:26:43Speaker 01

  And in fact, the seven Sumerian kings of the king's list that goes back 250,000 years. Right. They all had an advisor who was a fish god, who was an androgynous, amphibious fish god. And Oanis was the first one for the first Sumerian king. And they lived these massive lifespans. Wow. So anyways, this is what our boy Carl Sagan, who I wish was around today. Yeah. He'd call it so much shit, man, if he was around today. Oh, yeah. Stories like the Oanis legend deserve more critical studies that have been. performed heretofore. Such hypotheses are entirely reasonable and worthy of careful analysis. So, you know, people can shit on him if they want, on me if they want, but I'm going off of what Sagan

• 1:27:28Speaker 01

  said about analyzing and, and trying to figure out the truth of Fishy Friends. Sumerian civilization is depicted by the descendants of the Sumerians themselves to be of non-human origin. A succession of strange creatures appears over the course of several generations. Their only apparent purpose is to instruct mankind. Each knows of the mission and accomplishment of his predecessors. That's the Apkalu, the, the seven generations of fish beings.

• 1:27:58Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:27:59Speaker 01

  So, we, the story starts in Mali, Africa with the Dogon people. Professor Robert Temple wrote the Sirius mystery in the seventies. He's one of the most brilliant academics I've ever encountered.

• 1:28:10Danny Jones?

  Robert Temple?

• 1:28:11Speaker 01

  Robert Temple, Professor Robert Temple. He wrote the history of China with Newman and the guy's freaking brilliant. So, he wrote about, the, the Dogon understood supposedly about the binary nature of Sirius, like white dwarf, black dwarf stuff. So, a lot of people got bogged down into like, then the Christian missionaries might have hooked him up with some idea about Sirius, for instance, like that, that's how they knew that. So, this, I don't want to get bogged down in the controversy. What he really highlighted was that the Nomo, the eight are androgynous, amphibious, self-fertilizing, wisdom bringers who taught

• 1:28:52Speaker 01

  the arts and civilization to the Dogon people. So, self-fertilizing means you like literally procreate out of yourself.

• 1:28:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:29:00Speaker 01

  That sounds bizarre, right? Self-fertilization. So, let's go over and then remember what Sagan had to say. We go over to Sumeria. Now, give me a sec to talk about Sitchin, right? Zacharias Sitchin wrote about the Anunnaki gods, they're extraterrestrials. Nabero comes around every thirty-six hundred years. I don't want to shit on him because he's not here to defend himself, but he created this science fiction kind of version where he had some things right. The Sumerians.

• 1:29:29Speaker 01

  Uh, our, the Anunnaki, as far as the documents and the cuneiform tablets are concerned, created humans. They are genetic engineers. But Nibar was like a mistranslation of Napur in the Library of Nineveh. So, so he created this compelling, but not necessarily factual or, you know, you can't fact check what he had to say. Right. Right? So the skeptics glom onto that and like, this is all fairy tale. It's like, no, go back to the original translators and finders like H. V. Hilprick worked for the University of Pennsylvania in the 1800s, late 1800s. He was a serologist. He unearthed the Library of Nineveh. He found tens of thousands of cuneiform tablets.

• 1:30:09Speaker 02

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• 1:30:48Speaker 02

  Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 1:31:10Speaker 01

  And in his book, The Expeditions of the University of Pennsylvania and Babylon, him and his colleague Hugo Radot, who got his PhD from Columbia in 18, in the 1870s, they wrote about the androgynous nature of all Sumerian gods. They are self-fertilizing androgynous beings that beget out of themselves. So he's highlighting the fact that all the Sumerian gods are self-fertilizing androgens, which is fucking wild, right? It's like that level of specificity. Now let's go over to Egypt. And on the temple.

• 1:31:47Speaker 01

  At the Horus Temple, the Ed-Fu texts, which we had talked about, right? I got no social life, so it's 2:00 in the morning and I'm reading the old French translations of the Ed-Fu texts. I'm reading Eve Raymond, right, the highly regarded Egyptologist. She writes about the Aodouad, the Eight. Now, remember the Eight of the Nomo? Yes. In Dogon? Yep. The Aodouad and the Eniad, our brother and sister, husband and wife, self-fertilizing androgens, who teach the arts of civilization, they're wisdom bringers. And three different passages on the Ed-Fu texts talk about the self-fertilizing nature of the gods, of

• 1:32:29Speaker 01

  the androgynous gods. They beget out of themselves. They are born without the mother. You know, it's like clear that they are self-fertilizing androgens on the temple walls of Ed-Fu, right? So you have this theme that is carried to China. Who creates humans? Fuxi and Nuwa. And Robert Temple writes about, he wrote the history of China with, I forget his colleague's name, Joseph Newman, I think. So anyways, Temple says that the Chinese people firmly believe that a fish-tailed, androgynous, humanish hybrid, brother and

• 1:33:08Speaker 01

  sister teen, twins, created the Chinese civilization. They taught marriage. It seems like a genetic experiment. We're going to teach you animal husbandry, the arts of civilization, marriage. We're going to control the population. So in all the tombs, you have the brother and sister with the entwined tails of Fuxi and Nuwa, all of the ancient Chinese tombs. You can go to Wikipedia, they firmly believe that, that these androgynous amphibious, self-fertilizing beings were the culture heroes. And then we go to Peru, for instance. Veracocha emerges from Lake Titicaca. He is covered in fish scales at the Bennett Monolith. His wife

• 1:33:52Speaker 01

  and sister and twin, Mama Coacha. Had is is also amphibious and androgynous and there were temples all around Lake Titicaca before the that were documented before the Spanish destroyed them of her as like half human, half fishtailed, right? So it's it's this story is carried over to Peru with and he creates humans. All these beings are genetic engineers. He creates the giants, destroys them in a flood like Yahweh in the Bible, who's androgynous. And you you have the same story play out across the ocean. So I'll just go, I'll give a couple more.

• 1:34:30Speaker 01

  Sedna, Sedna and Inuit lore in Greenland of all places is androgynous and amphibious. And you go find this freaking stuff on Wikipedia. It's not like I'm cherry picking the data. And Sedna, Isis and and Kaibel, one of the oldest goddesses in Asia Minor, Artemasa and so many others were served by crossdressing gay and transgender priests, like showing that, you know, that androgynous gender fluidity, if you will, this reverence for the androgyny. And the oldest temples on earth display the double-headed idol of the androgen. Jericho, Ayen Gazal, they just found one at Karahanteppe.

• 1:35:13Speaker 01

  Erid Ziffer is an Egyptian archaeologist. In 2007, she wrote the first Adam, Ayen Gazal, and the two-headed statues that were found at Ayen Gazal in like 8,000 B.C. The moral of the story, she's saying that ancient people firmly believed that the first humans were androgynous and that the gods and the engineers were androgynous and they had displayed the iconography of the oldest cities on earth. And then I told her, you know, they just found a double-headed androgynous idol at Karahanteppe.

• 1:35:42Danny Jones?

  They did?

• 1:35:42Speaker 01

  They did.

• 1:35:43Danny Jones?

  Can you find this, a picture of this, Steve?

• 1:35:44Speaker 01

  Hugh Newman, it's it's probably has it in his.

• 1:35:48Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, Hugh probably talked about this when he came in.

• 1:35:51Speaker 01

  So it's a long-winded way of saying, wow, isn't that a bunch of levels of specificity between cultures that had a little or no contact, describing the culture heroes that taught them the arts of civilization in that similar way? You know, that catches my attention. I don't have a freaking time machine, who knows? Sagan saying, check it out.

• 1:36:14Danny Jones?

  Have you ever heard of John Marco Allegro?

• 1:36:19Speaker 01

  Yes, the Dead Sea Scroll translator.

• 1:36:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah, he translated the Dead Sea Scrolls and it seems like there might be a connection, but he basically came up with this crazy theory that, well, he was reading and translating those Dead Sea Scrolls, first of all, like dedicated his life to that. And essentially, the connection he made was with, like, he thought that with the way Jesus was born, this immaculate conception, right? He connected that to mushrooms. They come from, rain hits the earth and they just appear. There's no fertilization that has to occur, right? They just, they appear from mycelium, right? So it's kind of like the same way, like a, like immaculate conception.

• 1:37:01Danny Jones?

  So he theorized by connecting these Sumerian texts with the Hebrew texts that Jesus Christ was a psychedelic mushroom.

• 1:37:11Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:37:12Danny Jones?

  But, but one of the gaping holes in his reasoning there is he was connecting Sumerian roots of words to Hebrew. And there is linguistically zero connection. If you talk to classicists between those two languages. So, um, for what it's worth, you know, that's, that's an interesting connection.

• 1:37:39Speaker 01

  Oh, there's a double-headed idol right there. So I tell Aaron Zephyr that they, I said, you should do a victory lap because a paper is brilliant. He's like, I would propose the idea that the first humans revered by these cultures were androgynous, you know? Aristophanes displays the myth of the ancient androgen cultures around the world. Oh, I was gonna say, Marcia Silverblatt, professor from Duke University, writes specifically that there is no doubt that Varicoch is androgynous. All these, like, an academic will tell you, these people believed that these were real beings who were androgynous. You could say, I don't believe it, it's a mythology, but the traits that I discussed are, an academic will tell you, yes, this is exactly what was being said there.

• 1:38:23Speaker 01

  And the iconography is remarkably similar at all these places as well. As if, you know, this is like Hancock. I don't want to speak for him, right? But he's like, even in the show, he's talking about Iwanis, he's talking about Veracocha, right? He's getting, he's beating around this bush of like androgynous fish gods showing up and being the, the wisdom bringers. It's such a strange concept. So he's like, oh, Jesus Christ, I'm so far on the limb anyways. I don't know his mind, but maybe he's like, I'll just keep it as like some lost wandering beings who teach civilization. Cause if I, if I get into the fish gods, watch out. But he's the one who kind of pointed me in that direction along with Sagan. You know? So to your point about Allegro, I've read all his stuff and I think he was off base

• 1:39:07Speaker 01

  in some, but like mermaid literally means virgin of the sea, right? Thoth, he born without a mother. The pyramid texts in Egypt, utterance 534, Neith, who is androgynous, oh, I'm sorry, Nefties, uh, her born without a vulva. You know, basically it's not a real world, uh, what is it, um, Housewives of Egypt diss. It's like claiming that she is androgynous, she is a self fertilizer. All these beings are described as having, um, they don't procreate in the same way as we do, excuse me. Uh, so, so anyways, the, see it's like, oh, you believe in mermaids, you're an idiot. You know what I mean?

• 1:39:49Speaker 01

  Like that, that's how a skeptic would take this whole thing. But I said, my boy Sagan is saying it's worthy of further investigation. And you would look around these traditions and I'm not a hyper diffusionist. I don't think there was contact between all these cultures. How could they envision and come up with so, so similar like brother and sister, husband and wife? Let me, if you would indulge me for a second, the idea of the crippled god, right? Androgynous Zeus, androgynous Hera, throw androgynous Hephaestus, the, the, uh, iron worker of the gods off Mount Olympus because he is so deformed, he is limp, right?

• 1:40:31Speaker 01

  So the doctors have looked into it, like was Hephaestus, did he have arsenic poisoning? They're looking for like a worldly way to describe it. So then we go over to Japan and the two brother and sister gods throw Abyssu, I mean, I mean, they cast Abyssu out because he's crippled. And he's a fish god. And then you go to Egypt and you have Pata and you have Osiris, who always has his legs wrapped and mummified. He cannot walk. Plutarch tells us that he gave birth in a self-fertilizing way to his next incarnation, who was Horus, whose literal name is like fish god of our earth or something like that. Right.

• 1:41:13Speaker 01

  I know, you know, I don't want to like go top Rain Man here, but when you, the scope of this, there are so many kind of hidden in plain sight aspects of this mystery. I think it demands further investigation. These are the gods who are the genetic engineers who created humans. Cause people like, I'm down with UAPs. You know, I, uh, Giorgio says like, the idea is, um, aliens didn't build the pyramids. Who were the gods? You know? That's what he talks about. But it's like, how do I portray you in the most, um, kind of hurtful and disrespectful manner? You're a moron. You think the like alien creatures built the pyramids, um, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

• 1:41:57Speaker 01

  Instead of no, who are the gods? Saleem Hassan, considered the greatest Egyptologist, Egyptian archaeologist, I should say, in history, wrote in 1949 in the Sphinx, that the Egyptian people themselves firmly believe that there was a succession of great gods that ruled for tens of thousands of years. Hmm. Right? So Saleem Hassan says that. Menetho, who we use the, uh, dynastic classification system, starting with Menes in around 3100 B.C. Academics use that and agree that he's got it right. But the time of the gods and the time of the followers of Horus, which is 13,911,000 years are considered mythological.

• 1:42:44Speaker 01

  So when I go to Egypt, I hang out with my boy Youssef Awon.

• 1:42:47Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, I've heard of him. Yeah, Ben, Ben goes and hangs out with him when he goes over there.

• 1:42:51Speaker 01

  He's a super solid dude. You know, you know, you get to spread a lot of back she's around. You got to know people when you travel in Egypt.

• 1:42:57Danny Jones?

  His dad apparently worked with Edgar Cayce, right?

• 1:43:00Speaker 01

  His dad was the great wisdom keeper, um, Hakeem Awon, right?

• 1:43:05Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:43:06Speaker 01

  So what does he have to say? What do the ancient traditions of Egypt have to say? That there was a time of the gods that was older, that was like 10,000 years older and older, right? Not, um, in the main, you know, so we have, this is a great racist argument thing. There are people, there were Edgar Cayce people who think the pyramids were built in 10,000 B.C. Uh, Youssef goes around and he shows.

• 1:43:29Danny Jones?

  How is that racist to say the pyramids were built in 10,000 B.C.?

• 1:43:32Speaker 01

  Because somehow you're saying that the Egyptians couldn't have pulled it off themselves.

• 1:43:38Danny Jones?

  But they were same, they were Egyptians still, just older Egyptians.

• 1:43:41Speaker 01

  Yes, I know. This is where it gets.

• 1:43:43Danny Jones?

  They were still African people.

• 1:43:45Speaker 01

  But, you know, the Egyptians is incredible things, you know, like that we know of, like in Ptolemaic times, we know about Karnak, on and on and on. Alls I'm saying, or anybody who would take an alternative approach is that the traditions state that the Sphinx, the Great Pyramid complex and probably the Assyrian,

• 1:44:03Speaker 01

  right near Abydos, uh, from an earlier time. I think Youssef would say that too. So that goes to this like, a- and they found all these voids in the Great Pyramid, right?

• 1:44:13Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:44:13Speaker 01

  And Robert, Robert Shock and Thomas O'Becky found a void under the power of the Sphinx. So it's like, I don't know if the freaking pyramid is 25, it's inconclusive in my estimation, but maybe it's 10,000 years old. Who the knows?

• 1:44:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:44:26Speaker 01

  Let's get in there and see. Let's do ex- uh, explorations because if there's something that is datable within the Great Pyramid, it would be contemporaneous with the date, either 2500 B.C. or 10,000 B.C. And like Robert Shaw would say, the weathering pattern on the Sphinx is showing a much earlier antiquity. But that's just one piece of information. You cannot extrapolate and say that proves that Egyptian civilization is 10,000 years old. You need artifacts, carbon dating, in context. So I'm like, you know, I'm always pitching shows at different networks and I'm like, I dig the idea of excavating under the power of the Sphinx. I like the search for the lost Hall of Records idea. Who knows? I don't have a time machine.

• 1:45:11Speaker 01

  Don't you think people would dig that? You know what I mean? Like, let's find out once and for all. And then we could like banish this realm of pseudo archaeology that it's claimed that like, there's no basis in this because a lot of the Atlantis myth is tied into survivors showing up in Egypt, these gods, these bizarre androgens.

• 1:45:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:30Speaker 01

  That has a lot to do with this, the dating and the Atlantis myth. So let's see. Let's, let's do it, you know?

• 1:45:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah. No, Ben was telling me, talking to me about Youssef and how his dad was like a really big part of this Casey movement. Or I don't know, I don't know when Edgar Casey lived. I don't know if they, it was possible for him's dad and Casey to know each other. But he was a part of this big Edgar Casey sort of organization, right? And they were, he was explaining to me that there's like a lot more underneath the Sphinx than we know. And a lot that hasn't been excavated or maybe has, but it's being held secret by like Zahi Hawass.

• 1:46:07Speaker 01

  I was supposed to speak with Zahi and Mark Lerner at the Casey conference like three years ago, but it was, so I didn't get to meet him to talk to him. The whole thing is fascinating. I'll say, I'll give a little background on Casey. I spoke at the, I just spoke there again at the ARE and I love the Casey people. They're not like glassy eyed zombies. They're like really cool. They're empathic. They're all about healing. Like anyways, Casey was born in 1877 near Hopkinsville, Kentucky. And he basically would go into like this trans like state, trans like state and give health readings for people.

• 1:46:40Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right, right. Crazy stuff.

• 1:46:43Speaker 01

  Crazy stuff, right?

• 1:46:44Danny Jones?

  Apparently like, someone told him to, something told him to sleep on a book or something. So he literally put like, took it literally, put the book under his pillow, apparently slept on top of a book or the book under his head and then woke up and knew all the information in the book.

• 1:46:57Speaker 01

  That was actually, I think it was his father was telling him to do his studies, so he slept on the book. Right. And then he just, every page, he would open the page and know it. John Van Aken is like, runs the Casey Center there and he's got all the kinds of stories and I just did a bio for, on Edgar Casey for Ancient Aliens last season. It actually came out really good. So the moral of the story is that Casey would give these health readings. He would claim to tap in, not him, but just like to tap into the Akashic records of all existence. But then he started talking about past lifetimes, Atlantis, ancient Egypt. And in his waking life, he was kind of like a conservative Christian and all he did was like read the Bible and stuff. So he was really kind of bummed out.

• 1:47:39Speaker 01

  But then he just went with it and all this, you know, all these readings came out. 14,000 readings, 25 million words. It's all documented at the Casey Foundation. Right. So Casey had the, Casey said Atlantis existed in the middle of the Atlantic. Founded in 210,000 B.C. Talks about three cataclysms in 5028. In the final, Younger Dryas, one 12,000 B.C. So he has this timeline of Atlantis and I just find it interesting because Casey got things wrong about future predictions for sure. That he made and he got things right that he should never have known about. So he's the perfect, for me, case study. I'm not dogmatic, but I'm intrigued.

• 1:48:21Speaker 01

  Jonas Salk said, intuition points to where the thinking mind should look next, right? And something about the Casey material rings true to me and we'll see. Like the idea of Egypt being older or stuff like that. So Hakim R. One, I can imagine was connected to the Casey, um, uh, universe. But in a karmic sense, when you think in these terms, I think of like, these beings keep orbiting each other in different lifetimes, right? So you have Zawie Hawass, Maka Lerner, they were both supported by the Casey Foundation. Hawass went to UPenn. Lerner's education was paid at Chicago, I believe, an archaeological degree.

• 1:49:03Speaker 01

  And Lerner wrote a book, his parents were Casey people, about kind of proving the Casey material through the lens of archaeology and mysticism. But then he went against that. And he became a mainstream Egyptologist. But they still have this connection. So they were on the others, they played for the other team, but they're deeply connected to the Casey Foundation.

• 1:49:24Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:49:25Speaker 01

  And then you have Shock, Robert Shock, you have Hancock, Bovall, you know, all these people that are kind of floating in this Atlantis milieu, you know what I mean? I'll throw myself in there, you know what I mean? Just a little humble brag that I'm connected somehow to the Casey material and the people.

• 1:49:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:42Speaker 01

  And I just think it's cool and this kind of karmic orbiting of different beings trying to unravel the story. It's just, it tickles my fancy.

• 1:49:51Danny Jones?

  My favorite theory is Chris Dunn's power plant theory about the pyramids. I'm not familiar with him. He wrote the famous book, Giza Power Plant, and then he followed it up recently with his new book, The Tesla Connection. And he has this theory that basically the Great Pyramid was this electron, a solid-state electron harvester. And that, I mean, he's the only guy who's like a legitimate engineer who has back engineered the Great Pyramid, like he's invested, he's, he's looked through every single cavity and shaft inside the Great Pyramid, and he like built a replica and reverse engineered a way for it to somehow create free energy. And he has this theory, his new, his variation to the theory, so he's evolved his original theory.

• 1:50:33Danny Jones?

  And his new theory essentially is that the Great Pyramids, the Great Pyramid and the three other, the two other pyramids, they sit on the Giza Plateau, which is a a seismically active area there. So there's like a lot of seismic activity there, and there has been through history. And he's, he hypothesizes that there was a hydraulic hammer device in the subterranean chamber that would hammer the earth and induce earthquakes, which would essentially bring up electrons through the igneous rock beneath the earth, up through the pyramid, which is built with igneous rock, with the limestone and all the granite. And that how that, those, all those electrons would somehow come through the king, the queen's chamber,

• 1:51:17Danny Jones?

  and there were shafts that were peripherally outside of the pyramid that they would pour.

• 1:51:24Danny Jones?

  What was it? It was uh some sort of acid.

• 1:51:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, sulfuric acid.

• 1:51:28Danny Jones?

  Maybe sulfuric acid. I could be fucking that up, but they poured it in those in those uh

• 1:51:34Speaker 01

  shafts.

• 1:51:35Danny Jones?

  Those, well, they were like, um, there were pits outside of the pyramid.

• 1:51:39Speaker 01

  Oh, sorry.

• 1:51:39Danny Jones?

  And those pits fed the shafts that went into the Queen's Chamber, right? Because they're, he believes that they're connected. They went after they sent that rover up those shafts and figured out there was that gate and Brink's door there. Then they busted through the door because the door had these little two electrodes that were coming through, which is why the would, why would there be little two uh copper electrodes coming out of that door? That way up in the middle of that shaft in that pyramid that was supposedly a tomb? And he thinks that the um, it fed liquid that that uh acid into those shafts. And those electrodes were there to like, keep the right amount of liquid in those shafts. And that would create this liquid or this uh, this hydrogen that would come up through

• 1:52:19Danny Jones?

  the Queen's Chamber, the Grand Gallery will create some sort of resonant frequency and create some sort of combustion in the King's Chamber. And the two shafts that came out of the Queen, the King's Chamber were um, like mazers, right? That somehow created some sort of a, a field of free energy that he believes powered that civilization that was there during that time.

• 1:52:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm friends with Chris. He did uh Hughes, Hugh does an Origins Conference in London. And I gotta tell you, he's a funny man, like behind the scenes.

• 1:52:50Danny Jones?

  Oh, he's hilarious.

• 1:52:51Speaker 01

  He's hilarious. I love Chris.

• 1:52:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah, what a great sense of humor that dude has.

• 1:52:53Speaker 01

  Michael Creemo, too, Forbidden History, or I think that's a book he wrote. He's another, because people don't know the personalities of some of these guys, man. I love Chris. I think, yeah, it might have been a multi-purpose use, right? I, I think we all believe it wasn't a tomb, you know? There's no adornment, there's no hieroglyphics. You get into the Howard Weiss 1834, uh seemingly forged cartouche and stuff like that. He's looking for funding. He's using dynamite. He's a piece of shit, you know?

• 1:53:21Danny Jones?

  Hmm, right.

• 1:53:22Speaker 01

  So, and it's fine, you know what I mean? Uh, see, I, I know Zawe gets a lot of shit, but he pushes back because there's, they've robbed antiquities from Egypt. They portrayed the Egyptian people in, in really bad ways over time, you know, science has. So I dig where he's coming from. I would just say. I think, I think the archaeologists would agree with this. I think world governments should lay out about 20 billion a year and do archaeological digs around the world, especially at this point in history.

• 1:53:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:52Speaker 01

  Figure out our past because there may be clues within the past about like ways to understand our true nature and understand what's going on, you know, in time and space, all those big questions. But my point is, let's excavate under the par of the Sphinx. Let's get into the Great Pyramid as much as possible. Let's excavate all around the Giza Plateau. If you're interested in this, my boy Trevor Grassi and William Brown spoke at the Casey Conference. William bought a piece of land near the pyramid and that there's, they do have like a three series video set on YouTube, Beneath Gaza, no, the underworld of Gaza, for anybody listening who's into the story.

• 1:54:35Danny Jones?

  Of Giza?

• 1:54:36Speaker 01

  Of Giza, yeah. So they're looking for the lost Hall of Records, you know, they're not dogmatic, they're just following, you know, the traditions and stuff like that. So the moral of the story is like, a lot of people don't believe the pyramid was a tomb, so let's find out.

• 1:54:49Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:54:49Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:54:50Danny Jones?

  And it seems like there's a lot of young Egyptologists that are coming up in Egypt that are taking Chris Dunn's stuff seriously and like looking more into it. So it's like, sort of like a new guard is looking at them. Like, we should look into this stuff that we don't understand. Like, what's the, like, we're never gonna get anywhere if we just keep accepting the narrative.

• 1:55:08Speaker 01

  Totally. And it's part of that cult-like belief system. It's like, this is a belief of my ideological enemy. I'm not gonna give anything to this. It's even like, you know, I'm an, you know, I'm a stonemason with engineering experience. And you look at like Gobekli Tepe and Karahan Tepe, these Hugh probably talked about, 12,000-year-old sites. It's not impossible technology, but it's like incredible work that requires like feeding this huge population and skilled masons and all kinds of organization through a civilization or a society of hunter-gatherers. You know, that's where Hancock is like, was there a transfer of technology or at the same time? You know, because it springs up everywhere and the massive scale of it in Turkey now is just like incomprehensible how much of

• 1:55:53Speaker 01

  it is. But the skeptics, because they don't want to yield, they don't want to give anything to Hancock. It's just like, eh, you know, there's some rudimentary stonework.

• 1:56:02Speaker 01

  Instead of embracing how fucked up it is and how like paradigm shifting it is, you know? So, so I would like more honest, objective evaluation, like let's take Hancock. He starts off in the nineties or the late eighties, he has his hypothesis. There's a cataclysm and there's a lost civilization that's destroyed that goes around the world and teaches the arts of civilization. And low and behold, we find the evidence for his cataclysm. Supported by an international team of scientists called the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis. And if it wasn't considered a mythological and religious idea, it would have been accepted like 20 years ago. If you look at the evidence, it's pretty incontrovertible in my estimation. And then we find a super civilization in Turkey that's 12,000 years old.

• 1:56:47Speaker 01

  That was one of the main things, arguments against Robert Schalk. I am saying the weathering indicates like a 10,000 year old date for the Great Pyramid, I mean the Sphinx. He sits with Markoloner and he gets scorn poured upon him. There is no contemporaneous, advanced culture or civilization or temple sites around the world that meet a 10,000 year old date. And then it happens, right? And I don't think the apologies came rolling in. And the same thing with Hancock, it's like you have an eight, well, you know, I don't agree with your theory. But you predicted or you, or what came to support your theory has been evidence for cataclysm. And civilization being vastly older, right? You start there.

• 1:57:31Speaker 01

  Now for me to buy what you're selling, I need to see more than just a thought from Plato that may or may not be true. I need to see this evidence and that evidence. But then you start on him and calling a racist or all this on him stuff. Then, then you're losing the audience, right? Then you're like, that's not cool, you know what I mean? And instead of like a scientist, once again, got to be like a cop. You deal with a lot of weirdos, you take a lot of shit, but you get the respect of objectivity. Science is apolitical. We need these dates, this is what we need to see. And I just say that, you know, because.

• 1:58:08Speaker 01

  You know, Pete, well, in the shortcomings of the alternative space, there's no pay-per-view. You get a, an audience who wants to believe that you can fool and get and grift off of. There's a lot of flaws. There's no, there's, you know, not a critical analysis of everybody's theories oftentimes. But there are strengths too. There's intuition. There are a lot of people who are oriented towards metaphysics. Because a lot of people get into ancient mysteries because they are interested in spirituality metaphysics. Like Megan Fox, for instance, she liked my show, so she had me on her show, which is kind of. Megan Fox, the actress? Yeah, Megan. She did a. Really? Yeah, Legends of the Lost, a couple of years ago. She did a one, a one-season show.

• 1:58:51Speaker 01

  And the last episode was about the Clovis barrier and giants and stuff like that. So we were talking and, you know, we became friendly. Really? Yeah, yeah. She's really cool. She's into Edgar Cayce. She's into metaphysics. Wow. So we, we communicated back and forth. The first thing she said to me is like, I don't want to incarnate again. I don't want to tell stories out of school, but these are like glowing reviews of her as a person, so I don't think she'll mind. So she said, I don't want to incarnate anymore. She said, I'm into the Cayce material. I'm into ancient mysteries, but the rest of the world and bores me to tears. And I said, I agree. It's like, what's our real nature? She asked about ayahuasca. I said, you don't want to incarnate again. Go read Disappearance of the Universe by Gary Renard, right?

• 1:59:35Speaker 01

  He's a, a non-dualist teacher. And it's about the false and temporary nature of, of the matrix and, and our true nature and stuff like that. And it's hardcore and it's radical because that is what non-dualism is. It's like, you are not a body. You are a field of awareness outside of time and space with no concrete specificity, like the false and temporary matrix. I know it's mind-bending, but every mystic throughout human history says the same thing. So I said, read the book, Megan. She reads it. I mean, she sucked it up in no time. Disappearance of the Universe by Gary Renard. She gets back to me and she's like, I'm in the gym the other day. I'm looking in the mirror and I'm flipping the out and my image is disappearing.

• 2:00:17Speaker 01

  And she's like, I understand intellectually, everything that's being said, but look, I'm a mother of three kids, I'm in my early 30s. I gotta, what is in the matrix when you go back in, you take the blue pill or the red pill? She's like, I'm not ready for this. And I said, I dig that. And I'm, I'm not gonna like push it. I'm just gonna say the seed has been planted and you'll probably come back around to this. Because it's like, when you hear the truth, it's like a Zen koan, right? What's the sound of one hand clapping? That's not a question to be answered. It is a question to dissolve the questioner, the false ego itself. So her appearance is disappearing, right? And that she's having the Zen koan effect. Like, you ever see Jim Carrey talk?

• 2:01:00Speaker 01

  In a dissociative way about his movie character, like Jim, he's like, he's starting to move towards enlightenment. So he's talking about Jim Carrey, this separate being, as if it's a movie character.

• 2:01:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:01:11Speaker 01

  And I've studied, my brother and I studied with like an enlightened spiritual teacher for 20 years. Like, and you're like, what is that? Liberated from fear in this blissful state. You're like, how the do I get there, you know? And the point is that he encourages almost a dissociative orientation around your movie character. Don't take yourself too seriously. You have karma to play out. Your true nature is benevolent anyway, so you know, if you're really in alignment, you'll, you'll do nothing but good deeds anyways. It's only the twisted whispers of the ego that, that, you know, leads you down the wrong path. So Jim Carrey talks about this like dissociative,

• 2:01:50Speaker 01

  in a dissociative way about his movie character. It's really interesting. And people are like, ah, he's a fucking victim of MKUltra or whatever. It's like, no. He's starting to move towards enlightenment and that's what happens.

• 2:02:00Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:02:00Speaker 01

  Like, and these are the lifetimes where you get, you deal with all this, you deal with all this trauma, you reflect, you forgive. And then next time you cut, you have to show up in the matrix, your, your, your parents are like mystics or whatever, you're like, you've undone so much. And then you flip the switch like Eckhart Tolle, right? Like he came into this life, you're like, power, now I can't fucking focus, you know, but he came into this life ready to be switched on or switched off, I should say. And that's what the mystics say, that you undo. You keep coming back to the matrix until you break the cycle reincarnation. But you undo all that is false about you. And that's the book Megan read, read. It's just like, you undo.

• 2:02:40Danny Jones?

  What's the name of that book?

• 2:02:40Speaker 01

  The Disappearance of the Universe by Gary Renard.

• 2:02:45Speaker 01

  But it's not like, like the Course in Miracles is this kind of new channeled, non-dualistic teaching, uh, which is interesting, but the Advaita Vandanta, the, uh, Vipu Gita, the Ashtravakara Gita, all these texts wrote history, the teachings of Lautsu, Ramana Maharshi, even Jesus in the Nagamati scrolls, the apocryphon of John, he comes to John and he speaks about the inexpressible one, the field of existence, in completely non-dualistic ways. Go read it. He's like a eastern mystic, you know, not the Jesus of kind of the evangelical movement. He's been transformed. The Gospel of Thomas, who Elaine Pagels talked about, the shortest

• 2:03:29Speaker 01

  passages, be passerby, weave everybody alone, do not try to change anything, bless, forgive, turn the cheek, you are making it real by, by conflict and judgment. You are experiencing a false and temporary, uh, and you can make whatever you want about the sojourn, its time and space, right? People have different ideas. God made man so man could become God, you know, these theories of like, oh, God wouldn't know what it was like to like, turn his ankle and see a sunset, uh, whatever, you know what I mean? Like, um, and it's not like a white dude in a throne. The God is the field, the field that you are. That's what the mystics say. The point is, I think it's worthwhile pointing to our eternal nature.

• 2:04:12Speaker 01

  And then make of it what you want. Because we could talk intellectually about this all day long, but all these teachings and ceremonies are geared towards the experience, the literal, visceral experience of what you already are. So when you break through and you, you're in the zone of the one, you're in the field, all doubt is cast away. You, you don't even want to describe it. You don't even want to think. It's a, it's a realm without thought and time. It's fucking crazy. And it's awe inspiring and enthralling. So I could talk shit all day, but it's just like, what can you do in your life to get you back to your real nature? And the mystics would say, forgive. Don't do it out of phony goodness. You're already perfect. So you don't, I don't want anything out. I don't want anything transactional out of you.

• 2:04:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:04:58Speaker 01

  I don't want to manipulate you to get an extra hit. I don't want to look for my soulmate on Tinder. You know what I mean? I want to treat people for what they are, which is divine and forgive. And what I don't, I'm being a fraud and a piece of shit, you know, and a hypocrite. And you don't condemn yourself though. You're like, you kind of laugh at your movie character.

• 2:05:16Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. Totally.

• 2:05:17Speaker 01

  So, so I know I went on a long rant there, but you know, that's where I'm coming from. I, I think that's a kind of a.

• 2:05:22Danny Jones?

  That seems to be the consensus with people who experiment with psychedelics. There's a guy who I had on the show about a year ago named Andrew Gallimore. Have you heard of him? Yeah, he's doing this study called DMTX out of Tokyo where he's putting people on extended state DMT trips. And they're essentially trying to like map the DMT realm, right? And figure out like what's going on and try to build some sort of consensus or some coherence of what people are experiencing when they're on these things like ayahuasca and DMT and what's going on. Cause there's a lot of very similar things. Like it's not just like everyone's having their own unique experience. A lot of people are seeing and reporting the same exact sort of things, like entities and patterns and colors.

• 2:06:06Danny Jones?

  And, you know, he is a neuro, a neurobiologist. And what he seems to believe is that there's this, there's more of a reality there. And what's, what our brain is, is essentially like a filter. And our, our brain is here to, it exists evolutionarily to filter out everything there so that our, we can only sense what we need to, to survive and to evolve and to reproduce. And what happens when you're ingesting these substances and

• 2:06:43Danny Jones?

  integrating with them is you're, you're activating more of your brain. So you can experience more of what's already there. Like reality, if we were to have our entire brain engaged and, and.

• 2:06:57Danny Jones?

  Somehow be turned on, it would be something that's so overwhelming for us, we might just dissolve. Maybe we can only handle like a couple hours or 10 minutes of this. But it seems like there's definitely something there. And when you, and when you hear people talk about like their experience with these drugs and tapping into this other realm, or whatever it is, they seem to talk about these kinds of things.

• 2:07:19Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I've experienced that. A mystic would also say you're not going to experience all your lifetimes at once because you would, it would be overload. You'd have a nervous breakdown, but you can't, you know, why are there some psychics, you know, there's some and grifters out there, but there's some psychics whose game is pretty tight, who have, you know, good track record, right? So it's like, what are they doing tapping into the past and the future? It's because, you know, Einstein would say it's a false construct in a false world for whatever purpose. It could be the experience, you know, one of the shamans, shamans that I've studied with and did ceremonies with, at least it's like, there's a beauty in forgetting. It's like when you re-realize, you know, you're in this blissful state of eternity.

• 2:08:01Speaker 01

  And like it's incomprehensible, but it's almost kind of a cool game to forget. Because when you remember what you really are, it's like so awe inspiring. It's beyond comprehension. You know what I'm saying?

• 2:08:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:12Speaker 01

  I thought I was this hopeless piece of shit, but I'm this glorious divine being that has to do nothing to be what I already am, right?

• 2:08:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:08:23Speaker 01

  So I don't know about the nature of that. I'll, I'll just say that on a worldly level, it's, it's, it's worth looking into psychedelics. Are they letting us go into other dimensions? Are they showing us our true nature? You have Johns Hopkins just built like a $17 million research facility. End stage cancer patients are losing the fear of death, right? It's like, this is the shit that we need in our society. We don't want to demonize it. We want, that's why I like Hancock again. He's always like pointing to psychedelics and it's hard, man. I, what, have you ever done ayahuasca?

• 2:08:56Danny Jones?

  Never done ayahuasca, just MD.

• 2:08:58Speaker 01

  It's, it's like, stop the ride. I want to get off. It's really rough.

• 2:09:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah, no, it seems terrifying.

• 2:09:02Speaker 01

  Terrifying.

• 2:09:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah, like I imagine, like I always thought, well, like from the descriptions I've heard of it, it sounds like you're literally going to hell and facing demons.

• 2:09:10Speaker 01

  Pretty much the demons your own. Well, you know, there's third parties in the room too. That's another strange thing like the the spirit. Like if you do ketamine infusions, which are very helpful for like Yeah, yeah. Intractable depression. Sure. There isn't a third party and there isn't a spirit being there. But ayahuasca, they call it like grandmother. It's like this and supercomputer intelligence knows exactly what you need. And we'll kick you in the balls. You know what I mean? Like, I think it's like it or she or whatever is seeing that there's a limited window to get to you. Right? Because most people run from these things. Yeah. And it's like, this is what you need to see. You want to heal? You got to face this darkness. You got to face the ugliness in your subconscious that hasn't been healed, that's been

• 2:09:55Speaker 01

  calcified with trauma and false beliefs and self hatred. And it's a deep dive. But then the liberate, then you're like unicorns and rainbows out the other end. Often times you're like, oh, my God. I feel liberated. I feel a weight. I feel like my soul's come back to me, you know, which is cool. But it takes some sack to get in there and do it. You know what I mean? And it takes like, it's not a weekend seminar that's going to heal your problems. It's the little changes you take every day, every day, like you catch yourself. Oh, man, I'm back on Twitter. I'm back on Facebook. I feel like um, I'm worried, I'm filled with fear, I'm filled with survival concerns. I'm filled with emptiness and heartbreak and depression. And that's fine, man. Everybody, because we're in an unnatural state

• 2:10:40Speaker 01

  in this configuration as a temporary movie character and dies eventually and gets sick and all this crazy. We are plagued with psychological difficulties. So have empathy for people. And this is another thing, you know, people think they're like good online and that they're helping and they're educating and they're fixing. And just like the vision I had, it's just like you just blowing smoke up each other's ass, nothing good is happening. If you really want to be helpful, well, as Sue says it, "Look at all that is dark and unhealed within yourself." Ramana Maharshi, the greatest social activist in human history, does nothing compared to the seeker who forgives, who evaluates

• 2:11:22Speaker 01

  their own weaknesses and liberates themselves through forgiveness. And I found that, go work at the fucking homeless shelter. You know what I mean? Literally, there's, there's gotta be a family in your neighborhood that would be thrilled if you showed up with a freaking bag of groceries every week. Take, and, and this isn't a diss, but see where you're a coke head looking for another hit on, on social media versus true empathy. Like look somebody in the eye and do something kind for them. That's a good, and that's not a judgment, because I've been in the fucking coke head zone, you know?

• 2:11:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:52Speaker 01

  So, and then when I act out of empathy, you know, we, a couple buddies of mine, we call the Hilltown Helpers, we live in the Hilltowns, and always like shoveling off old ladies roofs and shit like that, you know what I mean? Like really, uh, you know, some old lady hasn't seen anyone in a while and you sit down and you talk to her and you're kind to her and you do, and she's like, "Oh, let me pay." And it's like, no, no, that's not what this is about, you know? And it's those acts of empathy that really have an impact, you know?

• 2:12:19Danny Jones?

  Oh, for sure.

• 2:12:20Speaker 01

  When you look back at your life review, you're gonna be fucking pissed if you didn't do more. And not more in a fake way, more in like a loving, empathic way. And that's true. You can say that this dude is like, uh, you know, hawking some new age philosophy, but I'm telling you, man, it's, you can't even feel it. You don't even have to believe it. You know, when you, when you're truly kind.

• 2:12:42Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:12:42Speaker 01

  You know?

• 2:12:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah, man. Yeah, I think you're spot on with that. What other kind of stuff are you looking into that are, that you're working on? Like, are you writing any new books? Are you, are you working on any new shows?

• 2:12:53Speaker 01

  We gotta pitch. Oh yeah, I want to give a tip of the hat. If you dig this fish god story, Paul Anthony Wallace is a friend of mine and he wrote the Eden series. Paul, he's Australian, he's awesome dude. He's a former archdeacon in the Anglican church for 32 years. That's one level below bishop. He left the church and he's writing about how in these ancient documents and ancestral narratives, there are these bizarre androgynous and you know genetic engineers that I talk about that are in the Old Testament. Yahweh has a consort called Asherah. They're androgynous, right?

• 2:13:33Speaker 01

  The first Adam in the Bible is androgynous and then Eve is made, you know, through genetic engineering. That's that parable there. Anyways, he tells us this wonderful story throughout human history. He's half Ghanaese. I think he's like half Welsh or English and he's connected to all the African ancestral tales that tell the same story that I've been sharing about Veracocha and Fushi. It's utterly fascinating. And he's a really solid dude on top of that. I mean, I'm sure you'll have him on at some point, but the Eden series is highly acclaimed. It's like this new version of the ancient astronaut theory almost. Oh wow. But he's brilliant. I can't, I can't talk his game up. So anyways, we're kind of collaborating

• 2:14:18Speaker 01

  and we get a pitch into one of the networks right now as a search for lost records, investigation of the ancient gods that I've talked about here type of show. You know, go to Edfo and look at the lost hall records. And I'm also writing a book about polydactylism in the ancient world. Extra digits, right? Six fingers, six toes? Yeah. It's associated with the supernatural, the divine and giants. The giant of Gath has six fingers and six toes. In Australia, you have rock art everywhere of giant feet with six toes. I was just touring with Hugh in Malta. We go to the Hypogeenum in Malta, considered one of the underground temple, once thought to be one of the oldest temples on earth before

• 2:15:03Speaker 01

  they found Gobekli Tepe. They, they, through construction building in like 1906 or something, they broke through to it. You go to room 20, there's an enormous handprint with six fingers there. You go out to the American Southwest, there are giant hands and feet with extra digits. You go to North Carolina, there's Judaculla Rock, where the Cherokee talk about the legend of Judaculla, and there's a seven-fingered handprint. The greatest hero of the Ulster cycle in Ireland, in the Tain, the English Iliad, has seven fingers and seven toes, in the Oxford translation. Just throw out a couple more. You go to Botswana, Matt Singh emerges from the underworld with humans and animals, and

• 2:15:46Speaker 01

  there's a giant six-toed footprint there, or engraving there. And then you go to Karabati, and on the island, there are giant, almost beyond belief, six-toed footprints, that the old men told anthropologist I.G. Terbert in 1949 about. They are attributed to the giants. So, the world is littered with giant hands and giant feet, associated with these giants that the indigenous people tell us about. So that's another, like, I know it's, yeah, here you go, like, see the giant foot in Newspaper Rock? On the left is Chaco Canyon, on the right is Newspaper Rock in Utah, look at that, you know?

• 2:16:31Speaker 01

  And there's this legend about-

• 2:16:32Danny Jones?

  Is that picture of that person's feet real? With like seven toes?

• 2:16:37Speaker 01

  Yes, it's called polydactyly.

• 2:16:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah, no, I met a woman who said that she was born with an extra finger the other day. She was from like Haiti or something.

• 2:16:45Speaker 01

  It's a rare genetic condition, and some people are born with extra digits.

• 2:16:48Danny Jones?

  It's pretty common in some like the Caribbean islands.

• 2:16:50Speaker 01

  Exactly, and, but, it's associated with giants, it's associated with the supernatural. The, the sorcerers, exorcists, and temple priests of Samaria were obsessed with polydactylism.

• 2:17:03Speaker 01

  The Suma Ibsu is a series of 2,800 tetralogical omens. And they talk obsessively about what it means to have six fingers born on one hand, six on the other. The giant of Gath, once again, has six fingers and six toes. And there is no genetic condition that associates polydactylism with gigantism.

• 2:17:24Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:17:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's like, I get that if some freakazoid has a bunch of extra digits in ancient culture, might say, oh, this dude's a god or whatever.

• 2:17:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:33Speaker 01

  But it's everywhere associated with literal giant rock art of hands and feet. It's wild in, in cultures that had no connection. You go out to Baja California, El Carmen Cave, Google that.

• 2:17:45Danny Jones?

  Look at that. Giant footprint of Pingion.

• 2:17:50Speaker 01

  I'll say this, Professor Paul Tasson in Australia, I think the University of Kimberley, a couple of years ago, there was this story that went around the world that like, world's oldest ancient narrative found in Australia. This Aboriginal, super ancient narrative. It was the Pleiades, it was the serpent, but it was also giant feet with six digits, right? So Professor Tasson actually wrote a paper about how he found these examples of giant hands and feet with extra digits, like in all these cultures around the world. And if you look at it, if you go to

• 2:18:31Speaker 01

  Marawanga, Marawanga, Professor Tasson, T A C O N. Giant footprint, six toes. If you Google that, you'll, you'll, you'll get, um.

• 2:18:43Danny Jones?

  What is the conventional explanation for these footprints? Like that one right there on that rock that guy standing next to, the Pingion one?

• 2:18:50Speaker 01

  Uh, it could be that, um, you know, it, it's like, well, that's 200 million years ago in granite, so I don't think a giant stepped in it. It could be the indigenous people carved it.

• 2:19:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:01Speaker 01

  But then it raises its own kind of, um, mystery because. Um, yeah, if you could throw up Marawanga, Australia, six-toed footprints. I know that's a lot and we'll see if we get a picture of that. The moral of the story is the androgyny that I spoke of and the polydactylism are displayed in the iconography of the oldest cities on earth. Ayen Gazal, Jericho, and they just found a 16-fingered statue at Karahantepi. Me, Andrew Collins, and Hugh Newman did an episode for Ancient Islands about it where, say what you want, but these people revered this, this trait, right?

• 2:19:42Speaker 01

  So, Saybirç is another place that was just unearthed, that's super ancient in Turkey, and the dude's holding up his hand, he has six fingers. And the professor who did the excavation, Karul, from Istanbul University, he said, the, what'd he say, "The statues of the humanoids always have extra digits or a strange number of digits, never five." So, the thing I'm talking about is being unearthed in real time at the oldest sites on the planet. Androgyny, polydactylism, make of it what you want. I'm, I'm just like, um, the, the story is going, has a thread through the oldest iconography in human history. And it

• 2:20:26Speaker 01

  continues, like Malta, all these places. Yeah, you have six digits. Uh, yeah, once again, I don't know, Marawanga, is it, is it rejecting that?

• 2:20:34Danny Jones?

  Do you think that these giants, do you think these giants were responsible for some of like the megalithic structures around the world?

• 2:20:40Speaker 01

  See, that, that's the tradition. So, like, Pizarro and, uh, other Spanish explorers, right? They show up at Soxiwamán in Peru. They show up at Lake Titicaca and all the ruins there. And the Spanish are like, oh, these are built by demons. They don't know what to make of it. They ask the Inca, they ask Pizarro, and they specifically said, "They were built by the Huawaris, the giants, after or before an age of darkness and cataclysm, essentially." So, that's what we're told. Because if I say... Uh, you know, I don't know if you could build that, you know, like with the tools of the time. That's not a diss against the Ayma or the Inca people. Uh, then, then I'm right

• 2:21:24Speaker 01

  out of the gate like I'm some racist, you know, but then again, you know, go to Malta, it's the same story. They're like freaking Sicilian farmers. But the point is that the indigenous people have all these myths and legends about giants and Stonehenge is the same way. And, oh, the Neolithic Britons, they're gonna be pissed at me if I said, uh, giants build Stonehenge, you know, it's just like, I, I don't wanna go round and round with that, but the point is these traditions are the things that's interesting, not my theorizing, right?

• 2:21:51Danny Jones?

  Absolutely.

• 2:21:52Speaker 01

  So what the [__] does it mean? You know, I don't know. Is it pure fantasy? These people who we attribute having the wherewithal to do these amazing things are telling us these kinda wild stories. So you can't have it both ways. It's like, um, or at least be open to the idea that there's more going on.

• 2:22:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah, man, absolutely. That, what is that one on the bottom with all the holes in the ground? You see the one with the circular, the circular carvings in the ground?

• 2:22:17Speaker 01

  That's Pueblo Benito. That's a, that's a kiva in Colorado and that's where the footprints going up the wall are, yeah, the, the six, six-digit hands.

• 2:22:27Danny Jones?

  This is in Colorado?

• 2:22:28Speaker 01

  That's in Colorado.

• 2:22:29Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:22:31Speaker 01

  So, go to Polenke and there's hands and feet all over the, um, iconography there. Go to Peru, go to, you know, um, so many places are, a- and it's not just because we know it's a ridge and at a condition, we, it's just not associated with like some-

• 2:22:51Danny Jones?

  Gigantism.

• 2:22:52Speaker 01

  Gigantism. It's literally associated with the supernatural, the divine, the malevolent and giants. And, you know, to any ske- you know, and I, hey, I've never analyzed a 10-foot skeleton. I, you know, I know, um, why skeptics are skeptical about the idea of giants. I just like, how can all these traditions exist? How can there be giant hands and feet associated? Not just, they, they don't stand alone. They're associated with giants and the legends are-

• 2:23:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:23:23Speaker 01

  Excuse me, the Cherokee, Judaculla, North Carolina, Motsing in Botswana, on and on and on, that the Australian Aborigines, they have the same stories of malevolent, extra-digited giants like the Native American tribes do in the Southwest. It's like- I'm not like cherry picking and trying to make an argument. I'm just saying, how can it be that there is no story there? I don't know.

• 2:23:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:23:45Speaker 01

  I don't have a time machine, but it's pretty interesting.

• 2:23:47Danny Jones?

  I'm just curious, like, what? I wonder what the academic consensus is on that? And like, how do they try to explain it?

• 2:23:52Speaker 01

  I actually, uh, my book is like heavily dependent on academic sources, like 90% of it is academic excavation reports, academic analysis. Dr. Richard Barnett wrote a paper in 1986 about polydactylism. He says, "The academic world has given this, um, subject zero attention." And he was right. He's the first one to piece together like, "Holy, there's this polydactylism everywhere in the ancient world," right? So there were a lot of academics who took on, like Patricia Crown wrote in 2016 about, uh, how in Colorado at Chaco Canyon, the natives revered polydactylism, extra digits.

• 2:24:35Speaker 01

  So there's like an, um, an article about that. Other, uh, Warble and other academics wrote about Polenke and Mesopotamian reverence for polydactylism. They call it divine polydactyly. So you have different academics in isolated areas talking about it. And I understand the skepticism, but I would like to know, just like we had Professor Todd Disitel, evolutionary biologist on our, um, for a show, and I love Todd, he's great. And I asked him, like, "How can, you know, what's the anthropological explanation for skull elongation all around

• 2:25:14Speaker 01

  the world between cultures that had no contact?" It's the most bizarre and specific thing to do. Are they emulating some, you know, what's going on? And, um, you know, he didn't have, he's just like, "I don't, I don't know how to explain it essentially." Um, and I agree. It's just like.

• 2:25:33Speaker 01

  These levels of specificity by cultures that had no con- like when you have a kid, would you elongate little baby Timmy's skull? It is like so bizarre and so crazy. Goes back at least 10,000 years to China.

• 2:25:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:25:45Speaker 01

  But you have it like Choctaw, a bunch of Native American tribes did it. It's crazy. You know what I mean? So, uh, it's, that's the kind of stuff where if it is dismissed as like garbage or, or, or, um, lunacy by the academics or the pseudoskeptics, people push back and they feel like they're not, these ideas aren't getting a fair shake.

• 2:26:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:26:07Speaker 01

  And then they start to believe in conspiracies and then they're now some fucking TikTok rabbit hole.

• 2:26:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:26:11Speaker 01

  Where the professionals should say, there's a real mystery there. I'm not going to jump to conclusions. This is what I need to see to prove the case. But that is very interesting. All common sense would tell you the level of specificity and the ubiquitous nature of these things, uh, is telling you this, it's worthy of further investigation.

• 2:26:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:28Speaker 01

  So I'm trying to like bridge that gap, you know, it's just like, take your foot off the brake a little, I mean, put your foot on the brake a little, chill out and address this as it's an interesting puzzle to solve, not a belief system of your ideological enemy, you know what I mean? Which is completely different.

• 2:26:44Danny Jones?

  Totally, man. Well, Jim, thank you for doing this, man. This has been a fascinating conversation. Super fun to talk to you about this stuff. I love learning about this crap. You and Hugh, you and Hugh are, uh, really, I think you guys are really on to something with what you guys are doing and teaming up on this, on this work. It's fascinating shit.

• 2:26:59Speaker 01

  That's great, man. It's just being open to these, um, seemingly bizarre ideas is really cool. I think that's why your platform is so popular and it's just like people dig it. And I hope, you know, and I appreciate like, especially being, you know, dudes, you know, to like give permission to men to like, talk about difficulties, talk about depression, talk about empathy, you know, shit like that, right? It's, it's really important to embody contradiction, you know, be the best of what a man is. It's not like a tough guy getting drunk at a bar and beating the shit out of someone. It's about like empathy and, and concern. And I really, that's the best part of it, that you're, you're, we're in the same zone there. And I really, I dig that. I appreciate it.

• 2:27:40Danny Jones?

  Thank you, man. And where can people find more of your work, get in touch with you?

• 2:27:43Speaker 01

  I'm in the Witness Protection Program with fucking Ancient Mysteries. I'm such a loser. I got like the tech skills. I'm an Amish preacher. I know, I gotta pick up my game. I'm, I'm on like Facebook. It's a picture of me and my brother at Roanoke when we're filming the Lost Colony of Roanoke. So I'm like doing this and my brother get hammers in his hand and I got a couple of dead accounts because I got freaking locked out of them. But I'll say at Hugh's site, megalithomania.uk, there's a Jim Vera section of videos. I think that's the best place.

• 2:28:13Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:28:13Speaker 01

  And Hugh's always like, if I'm doing tours with Hugh or we're gonna do a show or something, he'll post there too. So I talk about all this shit. Edgar Cayce, fish gods, metaphysical secrets of the ancients. There's all videos there if people dig any of this stuff. Or you could reach out to Facebook and, um, you know, um, say hi or anything like that.

• 2:28:31Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:28:32Speaker 01

  But you know, I, one day I'll like get a tech assistant or whatever, but, um, no, it's fine because, because I just like putting content out there.

• 2:28:41Danny Jones?

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 2:28:41Speaker 01

  I don't want to push away prosperity, but I don't really want to try to overly monetize any of this. I just think it's cool and it's interesting and I, um, and I like that, um, I can interface with both sides of the aisle, if you will. Cause I got, I got some tight friends who were like skeptics and they're always shitting on me and shitting on Atlantis and busting my balls, but I love them. You know what I mean? And it's not like, um, it's not confrontational. So thanks for everything, man.

• 2:29:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah, man. I appreciate your time. Again, we gotta get you on a flight. So

• 2:29:14Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, that's true.

• 2:29:15Danny Jones?

  We'll wrap it up. All right. Goodbye, world.

• 2:29:20Speaker 03

  You sound horrible.

• 2:29:21Danny Jones?

  Oh, I feel worse. This flu is not playing around.

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