The Latest Science on Microplastics — And What They’re Doing to Your Body | Dr. Shanna Swan

We’re surrounded by plastics and environmental chemicals every day, but only recently have scientists begun to understand how deeply they may be affecting human health. On this episode of The Dr. Hyman Show, I sit down with Dr. Shanna Swan to explore what the latest science reveals about plastics, fertility, hormone health, and the everyday habits that may be shaping our biology more than we realize. Watch the full conversation on YouTube, or listen wherever you get your podcasts. We Examine: • Why scientists are increasingly concerned about declining sperm counts, fertility, and hormone health • What microplastics, phthalates, BPA, and PFAS actually do inside your body • Why heating food in plastic can dramatically increase exposure to endocrine-disrupting chemicals • The practical changes that may help you reduce exposure and support long-term health This conversation isn’t about fear, rather it’s about understanding how everyday exposures shape our health and where small, practical changes can make a meaningful difference. If this episode has left you thinking differently about everyday exposure and you want to learn more, here are a few great places to start: • Watch The Plastic Detox • Explore Dr. Swan’s work through the Action Science Initiative • Visit UnplasticYourLife.com for practical ways to reduce exposure at home View Show Notes From This Episode Get Free Weekly Health Tips from Dr. Hyman https://drhyman.com/pages/picks?utm_campaign=shownotes&utm_medium=banner&utm_source=podcast Sign Up for Dr. Hyman’s Weekly Longevity Journal https://drhyman.com/pages/longevity?utm_campaign=shownotes&utm_medium=banner&utm_source=podcast Join the 10-Day Detox to Reset Your Health https://drhyman.com/pages/10-day-detox Join the Hyman Hive for Expert Support and Real Resultshttps://drhyman.com/pages/hyman-hive This episode is brought to you by Seed, Big Bold Health, Timeline, BON CHARGE, Sulighten and BIOptimizers. Go to seed.com/hyman and use code 20HYMAN to get 20% off your first month. Go to bigboldhealth.com/drhyman and use code HYMAN15 to save 15% on your first order. Visit timeline.com/drhyman for 20% off a subscription on top of new starting price of $79. Head to bioptimizers.com/hyman and use promo code HYMAN at checkout to save 15%. Head to fatty15.com/HYMAN today and use code HYMAN for 15% off your 90-day subscription Starter Kit. (0:00) Microplastics in the human body and their sources (0:56) Introduction to Dr. Shanna Swan (3:34) The Plastic Detox documentary and endocrine disruptors (5:21) Dr. Swan's research journey and phthalates (6:29) Decline in sperm count and reproductive impacts (8:45) Early research and phthalate syndrome in humans (11:03) Sources and broader impact of endocrine-disrupting chemicals (19:38) Classes of hormone-altering chemicals and health impacts (22:51) Health impacts beyond reproduction (24:20) Personal and clinical experiences with microplastics (27:02) Measuring microplastics and routes of human exposure (29:29) Methods to reduce microplastic exposure (31:14) Biological and regulatory aspects of microplastics (35:02) Plastic Detox movie findings and intervention results (41:16) Chemicals in microplastics and their effects (47:21) Legislation and consumer protection against toxic chemicals (50:54) Diagnostic testing for toxic exposure: importance and costs (53:09) Practical steps to reduce chemical exposures (55:35) Avoiding plastic and toxic exposures in daily life (58:10) Skincare, fragrance, and chemical exposure (1:01:19) Rapid-fire questions on health and environmental practices (1:09:06) Resources for testing and exposure reduction

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Microplastics, which is something that's in the zeitgeist now as a problem and people are worried about, freaked out about, don't know what to do about.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  People have measured them in their blood, they've been measured in placenta, they've been measured in seminal fluid, they've been measured in breast milk. They're breakdown products, very small breakdown products of plastic and do harm in two ways. They carry the chemical, the chemical is piggybacked on the little particle, and then they invade the cells. And that invasion, their presence in the human body, in the cell, itself causes harm. It's not anything you have any control over, really, because they're so prevalent in our water and in our air and in everything we eat and smell and drink. Where are they coming from? And the answer is everywhere, and that's kind of scary.

• 0:46Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Let's talk about the testing. Is it worth people doing the testing?

• 0:50Speaker 01

  If you want to learn what's in your body and then commit to go on and make changes in your life, you can.

• 0:57Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Today, I'm joined by Dr. Shana Swan to discuss the invisible threat of microplastics. Her recent documentary, The Plastic Detox, highlights how three out of five infertile couples conceived after a three-month intervention. We uncover the hitchhiker chemicals in your water and food and how to reduce your exposure. If you've been dealing with anxiety, low energy, or trouble focusing and still feel like you're missing something, you're not alone. And that's why I created the Brain Shaping Academy, a new program that looks in places most people never think to check, like nutrient deficiencies, the health of your gut, metabolism, your immune system, and lots more. So join the waitlist and get special pricing at drhyman.com/brainshaping.

• 1:40Dr. Mark Hyman?

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• 2:22Dr. Mark Hyman?

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• 3:07Dr. Mark Hyman?

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• 3:49Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Dr. Swan, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I'm excited to talk to you about this topic of endocrine disruptors and more specifically, microplastics, which is something that's in the zeitgeist now as a problem that people are worried about, freaked out about, don't know what to do about. And you recently were instrumental in a movie through your action science initiative called The Plastic Detox, which is how to get plastic out of your lives. And I think we're going to get into all of that, but I kind of want to just start out by thanking you for your work and thanking you for highlighting the importance and the reality of these endocrine disrupting chemicals and how they affect us. And we're just chit chatting a little bit before the podcast. And years ago, God, it must've been close to 30 years ago, I read this book called Our Stolen Future by

• 4:33Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Theo Colburn. And it was kind of like a silent spring book. It was this book that Kind of really kind of set the stage for how these environmental toxins were not just causing cancer, but were having huge endocrine disrupting effects on fertility, sperm count, hermaphroditism in animals, weird stuff, what was going on that is so bizarre in affecting reproductive health across all species, including humans. And I think that work is only compounded and you've been instrumental in unpacking some of that. So before we get into the whole world of microplastics, I'd love for you to share how kind of you got into this work, how you first came to understand that these compounds were ubiquitous, how

• 5:15Dr. Mark Hyman?

  they were affecting human health, and particularly how they were affecting, you know, human reproduction, what kind of led you down that path?

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I was asked to join a committee of the National Academy of Sciences, who was, the committee was asked to look at the question, do chemicals in the environment that are hormonally active affect human health? Should we be worried about that? Kind of the same question we're asking today in some ways. And I joined that committee as, I believe they brought me on as a neutral. They have usually neutrals and people on either side of the question. And at that point, I didn't even know what an endocrine disrupting chemical was. So I was definitely neutral, although I had looked at environmental factors that affected fertility

• 6:05Speaker 01

  for a long time. I hadn't looked at this question of endocrine disrupting chemicals. So that's how I got into it. I got into it. I went to the committee. The first thing they asked me to do was to look at a study out of Denmark that claimed that sperm count had declined 50% in 50 years. Yeah, that was the Carlson paper. And that paper, when I first looked at it, I thought, uh, probably not, probably not going to hold up under scrutiny, because it was kind of thin. You've probably seen it. It doesn't have a lot of

• 6:44Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, I remember that study.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  So were you impressed by it? I'm curious.

• 6:49Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I mean, it certainly got my, it certainly got my attention. Also, the changing birth rates between male and female offspring was also really fascinating to me how that number was shifting. And so that all kind of got my attention. This was, and this was really around 30 years ago when I, 90, 95 is when you joined the National Academy of Sciences and our stolen future came out in 96. So I was like, oh, wow, this is a thing.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  This is happening. Right. So what I did was, as you probably know, I and my colleagues, I had two colleagues that worked for about a half a year, trying to make that Carlson trend go away. You know, so we looked at things that might explain it, like are there changes in smoking's changes in obesity rates, changes in how sperm count was measured and so on and so forth. And put all these variables into a large model, 61 studies we got, you know, all the data from, put it in a big model, ran the model. And then the big surprise was that that didn't change anything, not to the first decimal place, the slope.

• 7:52Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And you're, and you're a statistician by training. You got your PhD in statistics. So this is like, you know, this stuff.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I could not make it go away. That's what I was trying to do. I was trying to make this trend go away. I could not do it. And, um, and so I had to take it seriously. And that's when I kind of dove in to this question of is sperm count declining? Why is it declining? Where is it declining? And, um, that wasn't specifically focused on any particular chemicals, but, um, then the next big jump for me was when I was traveling with a chemist friend to Japan, John Brock, and he said, Shauna, you should look at phthalates. So that's kind of another big change in my life. And I said, John, why should I look at phthalates?

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Cause I had never heard of them. Okay.

• 8:46Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Right, right, right.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  What a naive question, right? And, and so he told me two things. First of all, he said they were in everyone in the United States as far as they could determine at CDC because they had the NHANES study that sampled a representative sample of the US population.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  And you could see that it was positive. It was detected in the sample almost 100%. And then he said, and this was kind of the thing that got me most interested. He said that his colleagues in the National Toxicology Program had shown that when a pregnant rodent, rat or mouse, was exposed to phthalates, that their male offspring developed atypically. And what they did was they had a less mass male typical genital tract. And we can talk about that some more, I'm sure we will. But they gave this the name the phthalate syndrome.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  And this was very interesting. I didn't realize this till much later, but this is the only environmental chemical that has a syndrome named after it. Okay, there's fetal alcohol, but that's not an environmental chemical. So this was really kind of, you know, changed the whole field in a way. Now we, yeah, we started having to look at like, what, what are these? And, and are there others?

• 10:20Speaker 01

  And to raise the possibility, you see, that a prenatal exposure to a manmade chemical could change the life's passage, the lifelong development of a, of an offspring.

• 10:38Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  Right? And, and so

• 10:40Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's kind of wild, yeah.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, kind of wild. So that got me into, in a big way, into looking at this. Because what I then asked was, uh, is it happening in humans? And that was kind of the big breakthrough for me. When I found, we can talk about how I did that if you want, but I did find the phthalate syndrome in humans.

• 11:03Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So before, before you go on, before you go on, what are phthalates? And where are they found? And how are we exposed to them? Because I think people have heard that term.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:10Dr. Mark Hyman?

  They may not know what it is, just like you didn't know what it was.

• 11:14Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's likely that people I What is that anyway? Actually, in Europe, they're in Europe, they're banned there and they're like the little rubber duckies that, you know, babies were playing with the bathtub and chewing on.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  They're actually banning rubber duckies here too.

• 11:24Dr. Mark Hyman?

  They are there now they are, but they weren't.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  That's right. So what are they? So these are chemicals that are added to plastic. And by the way, they're derived from fossil fuels, which is interesting to keep your.

• 11:40Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Hydrochemicals.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. They have a lot of interesting properties that they lend to the plastic. So they're put in to give it properties and the phthalates are put in into the plastic to make it soft and flexible. And they're very, it's a large class of chemicals. They're fairly diverse. And they're measurable in the human body pretty easily, which makes my work much easier because they're water soluble. And being water soluble, they get into the urine and what as metabolize, they're metabolized. And so we measure metabolites of phthalates in the urine fairly easily. Everybody listening can do this.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  They can get their body burden of phthalates by peeing into a container and having it tested. Yeah.

• 12:28Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  So that makes it very accessible. The, the company that I use is called Million Marker, but there are other companies that do that, I believe, and certainly the government does it. So, so it's now measurable. Once we know this, we know it's measurable. And we know something about what it does because of those animal studies. But let me just add that it does other things besides making plastic soft and flexible. For example, it helps the absorption through a skin barrier or other barriers of chemicals. And so for it's added to hand lotion. And it's also added to pesticides.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  Well, this is so interesting because if if you're going to increase absorption, you would like that pesticide to go into the plant, right? So it's it's added as so-called an inert ingredient, although it's not inert. Um, and um, it another important thing it does, it re- helps of retain scent and color. So it's added to makeup. So um, you know, lipstick um, and products you put on your skin as well as fragrance. It's actually in all fragrance products and that's a pretty big exposure. Yeah, because it helps.

• 13:50Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And everything's sent, everything's sent.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  Everything, right? Your laundry detergent, your, you name it.

• 13:57Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So it's so it's banned and it's banned in rubber duckies, but it's in everything else and it's still there.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah. So I just wanted to say about the banning. Um, there was a lot of discussion um, about what should be banned or whether they should be banned. After our our studies and others came out and um, finally, they decided that they would ban it in children's toys. That's the rubber ducky. But I've always been upset about that because a pregnant woman, particularly if she has no kids in the house, is not handling children's toys. That's not how she's getting her.

• 14:35Dr. Mark Hyman?

  But she's put on makeup and lotion.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  Right, and she's eating food that's been stored in phallic contain, you know, phallic containing containers, soft plastic containers and and and so on and so forth. Um, so um, she's not being, you know, protected by this legislation of two thousand and eight. Consumer Protection Act of two thousand and eight did not protect pregnant women. And we still don't have good.

• 15:01Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Or the or the rest of us.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  Or the rest of us, right, right. But for me, the pregnant woman is uh, particularly critical um, you know, because of the Thale syndrome, because um, the fetus is, you know, particularly vulnerable, uh, especially in the first trimester or the first part of the first trimester. And I'm sure we'll talk about that in more detail, but that's when the. The pathway for the phthalate syndrome is laid down at that time.

• 15:32Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, I think this is important. And I think, you know, the doorway into understanding this for you was understanding the role of phthalates in animal reproductive health and then human health. But this is just the tip of the iceberg.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:45Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Phthalates are just one of thousands of petrochemically derived compounds that are in everything, everywhere, all at once. And what's interesting to me is that, you know, in medicine, we're taught that the dose makes the poison, right? This is Paracelsus's, you know, famous line. The dose makes the poison. You know, have one glass of wine, fine. If you have two bottles of wine, probably not so fine. However, in the realm of what we call these xenobiotics, which are foreign compounds that have biological effects, and particularly they have estrogenic effects. They seem to be causing harm at very low levels. And from my understanding,

• 16:30Dr. Mark Hyman?

  they're not additive. So one plus one isn't two. One plus one might be a thousand. And there's thousands of these that are in and on and around us and that are affecting us. So can you kind of unpack how these are, where these all are found, what they are, and how they're synergistically affecting us and the kinds of things we're seeing in the science over the last 30 years about how they really truly impact all aspects of human health, but not just reproductive health. At 66, I pay close attention to how my body feels, especially my energy, my strength and my resilience. And aging doesn't mean we have to slow down or stop doing the things we love. And that's why I'm genuinely excited about Timeline Powered by Mitopure. And I've been talking about it for years.

• 17:15Dr. Mark Hyman?

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• 18:00Dr. Mark Hyman?

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• 18:45Dr. Mark Hyman?

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• 19:25Dr. Mark Hyman?

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• 19:38Speaker 01

  Thalates are a class of several chemicals which have similar structure and similar effect. And by the way, the thalates are androgen lowering. They're anti-androgens, okay? So they're particularly important for things that affect the male side. But the females are also, as you know, of course, the females need their testosterone also. So, and by the way, just a little aside, in one of our studies, we asked women about their sexual satisfaction and frequency, and women who had higher levels of thalates had lower satisfaction and lower frequency.

• 20:21Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Interesting, interesting. Because it lowers testosterone.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is through the testosterone. There are other chemicals that affect other hormonal systems. And a really important one for me, studying environmental health, are the bisphenols. So I think everyone knows about BPA, and that's one bisphenol, bisphenol A. There are many others. And they're in the market now, bisphenol S and bisphenol F, because there was concern about A. So the manufacturer said, oh, okay, we'll just swap out A for these look-alike chemicals, bisphenol F and S, and then we can put on our models BPA-free. But they didn't remove the risk. Okay, so just as a little aside, that's another class.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  There's another very large class, which are the PFOS chemicals, so-called the forever chemicals. And these are affecting the immune system in important ways. And this is kind of scary because they're, whoa, they're in so much that we use every day. They're in, you know, the Teflon pans. They're barriers. I think of them as barrier chemicals. They lay down a barrier in your frying pan, in your pizza box, in your rain jacket, in your, if you play sports, in your sports clothes.

• 21:41Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Your Lululemon outfits.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  Well, I don't, I try not to, I try not to, you know, mention brands, but, but.

• 21:49Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I'm happy to.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  What are they doing? They're putting a barrier between the dirt. You know, and your skin or the rain and your skin or, you know, so they're, they're laying down a protective barrier. That sounds good, but in fact they're conveying harm because they interfere with your antibody response to vaccines, for example, you know, they're actually pretty powerful. Um, and, and there are arguably 80 hormones in the body. I'm not sure. I'm not a endocrinologist, but there's a large number of hormones, probably more being discovered all the time. But, um, and so when we talk about, um, a hormone altering chemical, we're talking about something that can affect very, very many things in the

• 22:35Speaker 01

  body. And these are critical because the hormones are signaling agents that transport information from one gland to another and keep your body running. So if you're going to mess with those, you're going to mess with everything in the body. That's pretty overwhelming. Yeah. Yeah.

• 22:51Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So it's not, it's not just reproductive health. It's, it's pretty much everything and they're linked to cancer. They're linked to heart disease. They're linked to obesity. They're called obesogens. They're called autogen. They cause autoimmune disease. They're called obesogens because they cause obesity. So, you know, they're, look, it looks like they're affecting cognitive health, things like Parkinson's disease is certainly linked to these environmental chemicals, some depression, mood disorders. I mean, you go through the spectrum of all chronic illnesses. In some ways, all of them can be triggered by some levels of environmental toxins. And what's happened in over the last, you know, 150 years, I mean, when you were, you were born in 1936, which is amazing. You're going to be 90 probably when this podcast comes out. So happy birthday. You know, when you were,

• 23:32Dr. Mark Hyman?

  when you were born, like everything was organic. There was no conventional sort of industrial agriculture. There, there, there weren't these chemicals everywhere and everything all the time. And we've, we've done this to ourselves over the last, you know, 100 and plus years. And, and, you know, now we're in this pickle where we're finally discovering the science of how these things impact us. And the question is, how do we go about addressing this? Clearly it's, it's having affecting fertility, sperm count, sexual function, and all these other things that are quite concerning. But but I kind of before we get into sort of what to do about it, I really want to kind of go into this world of microplastics because it's something that's currently in the zeitgeist. People are talking about it, concerned about it, want to test for it. I had my microplastic

• 24:16Dr. Mark Hyman?

  tested. I don't know if it was a good lab or not, but it was like off the chart. And I'm like, God, I don't, I cook, I have only glass containers. I try not to drink out of plastic bottles. I mean, I do my best. And I know what I'm, I'm kind of aware, I filter my water. I'm like, I, but it's frightening to see what was going on in my body and how and how I might be affected by this. So, and it was a sort of a seminal paper that came out in the New England Journal of Medicine, which talked about microplastics in the atheros or the plaques in arteries and how that was linked to increased risk of cardiovascular events. And that was, that was a pretty compelling bit of data. So can you talk about what are microplastics, nanoplastics, where are they found? What's the difference between microplastic,

• 24:58Dr. Mark Hyman?

  plastics and plasticizers? And like, what's the science about these things in human health?

• 25:03Speaker 01

  First of all, when we started studying, when John Brock said to me, you should study phthalates, he wasn't thinking about, didn't know about microplastics. That was not a thing of that. And that's a relatively new area of work. And, but there's a lot of overlap. And let me just say, we didn't know about microplastics, but we knew about particles harming us. And, you know, and you, as a physician, you know that we have asbestos. Asbestos were particles that went into the lungs and caused asbestos, and they also had caused chemical harm. So they're similar. And, you know, silicone also, silicosis. So,

• 25:48Speaker 01

  so, so it's not that the phenomena of particles carrying chemicals and themselves being harmful. We know this, but we didn't know it about endocrine disrupting chemicals until recently. So, it's their breakdown products of, of.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Very small breakdown products of plastic. And that do harm in two ways. They're at least, whether maybe we may find more. But they convey, they carry the chemical. So their, the chemical is piggybacked on the little particle. And then they invade the cells. And that invasion, their presence in the human body, in the cell itself, causes harm. That is different than the chemical harm. Right? So, um, so that's, you know, micro particles 101 or something. But, um, the, the other thing to know about them, I think really importantly, is that, measuring them is extremely difficult and expensive.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  And you have, you were able to get measured. I don't know what tissue you measured, but

• 27:00Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Blood.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  Oh, blood, in your blood. Yeah, yeah.

• 27:02Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Blood test.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. So people have measured them in their blood. They've been measured in placentas. They've been measured in seminal fluid. They've been measured in breast milk. There've been pretty much any fluid that's gone through the body. A body that's contaminated by plastic will pick up these little particles. And, um, but the measurement of these will also reflect the particles in the surrounding environment in which they are measured. So if they're measured, if they're to collect them in a autopsy, you collect them in, um, a place where, you know, in a hospital where women are giving birth, you're going to get lots and lots of micro particles from the environment.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  And this is, makes it very difficult, a challenge to measure these without contamination.

• 27:51Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Cause they're in the air is what you're saying.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  They're in the instruments that are used to collect the sample from, you know, the whatever, placenta. And, and so, um, this is, this is a big challenge to the field. And it, it's also makes it very expensive. So, um, just, it's very easy, I told you, for you to get your urinary metabolites of chemicals measured by sending in your urine. It is not easy to get your microplastics measured. Uh, it's a much harder process. Yeah. And more expensive.

• 28:23Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Where do we find these things? Where are they? Where are we getting the most exposures?

• 28:26Speaker 01

  Well, that's a great question. Everybody wants, yeah, where are they coming from?

• 28:32Speaker 01

  And the answer is everywhere. And that's kind of scary. Um, we're, uh, but I would say, you know, think about how can things get in the body? Right? You can take them in through your mouth. That's ingestion. So food, drink, very important, perhaps the most important. I, I can't be sure. And then we get them through inhalation. We breathe them in, so in our air. Um, and then we get them through our skin. And that's the, through our absorption. And there's another route, which is not very common, not studied very much, which is if you enter the skin, say you get a, a shot or you get blood drawn, that will introduce, um, some as well, but.

• 29:17Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Getting your blood drawn, just having a needle in your arm?

• 29:19Speaker 01

  I, I haven't seen a study on that, but I've seen that written up, that that is possible. Yeah, because, um, you're breaking the barrier. All of these are breaking barriers in a way. You know, they're, yeah. So it's another, where you think about, how do things get in the body? Those are all that people have mentioned of. Yeah. So, um, but the thing to remember is it's not anything you have any control over, really. Um, because they're so prevalent in our water and in our air and in everything we eat and smell and drink. And, you know, that it, it's very hard to think about how we could defend ourselves against them.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  Um, I, I mean, I would suggest taking a lot of care with your water because that is a very common source of exposure. Um, in my house, we, um, actually distill our water, which sounds is complicated, but it's not hard and it's not expensive. It's free, actually, once you buy the machine, make sure you buy the thing. Plastic free, okay.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  And then there's filtering and you have to worry about plastic in the filters and changing the filters and so on. And um, uh, there's reverse osmosis, R O, which is, you know, all of these things are technical. They take machines, they take, you know, effort and allow for possible additional contamination, I would say. You have to be careful of that. But but water is really important and bottled water is not great, just not great, not.

• 30:57Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So filtering your water or distilled water if you can, right? And does reverse osmosis filter actually work for removing microplastics?

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Well, I can't say about my, it works for keeping out exposure, whether it keeps out all of microplastics, I can't, I can't say, I don't know.

• 31:14Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Well, before we get into kind of like the, the ways of sort of reducing exposure, so I think there are ways, and I think it's important to think about those as best you can. I want to go back to the sort of biological impacts of these things. And what do we, what do we know now in 2026 about what these microplastics are doing to human health?

• 31:31Speaker 01

  But I have to say, I'm not distinguishing the harms from the plasticizers and from the microplastics. Okay, there are, there are.

• 31:44Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You see them as a continuum of harm?

• 31:46Speaker 01

  Not so much a continuum as inseparable in a way, because um, if you're going to be getting the plastic pieces in your body, you're going to be have the hitchhikers there too, right? The chemicals that are riding along with them, that you can't keep them out. You can't have, you know, the microplastic without the, without the hitchhikers. And, and, and so, um, I mean, I've done lots of studies on phthalates and I've been studying the phthalate urinary metabolites. But undoubtedly, all of those people that we studied also had microplastics, which we did not study. Right? So it's, it's very hard to separate them.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  Uh, they're kind of a, yeah, you could have to take them together.

• 32:36Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So, so in that whole category, like, what, what are the, what are the human harms? Like, what are the things that people should know that they might be causing or that the data suggests that they could be causing?

• 32:47Speaker 01

  The outcomes or the exposure?

• 32:49Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, like, yeah, like, what do they do? I mean, we talked about reproductive health.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 32:53Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Perme count, fertility, you know, changing genitals, all kinds of weird stuff. But, you know, what else is it doing to human health?

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I have to say, I'm a reproductive epidemiologist where I live, if you will, is in the reproductive system. And so that's what I know best. I also read a lot, so as you do and other people do. So I'm not, I'm not sure that my expertise is, I'm not the right person to talk about obesity. You should talk to the author of obesity gens or, you know, I haven't studied those specifically. You know, the relationship to cancer, a lot has been written on that Parkinson's. You know, there are experts in each of these areas and I, I would be reluctant. I would prefer to talk about reproduction because that's what I know.

• 33:46Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Okay, okay.

• 33:47Speaker 01

  But also saying that, yes, the harms are widespread and probably in every system in the body.

• 33:53Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, I agree. And I think, I think from my perspective, looking at this more as a doctor from the high level, like looking at all the different things that it can affect. It's clear that the underlying drivers is, is inflammation, oxidative stress, immune dysregulation, endocrine disruption, and it kind of also like this Trojan horse, as you mentioned, for all these other chemicals that come into our bodies. Corti Vasker Health, obesity, diabetes, autoimmune diseases. So we're seeing a rise of all these things. And I think it's not the only reason, but it's clearly a major reason that hasn't been looked at. And I think that, that from my perspective, like, people are thinking, okay, well, what do I do? Like, how do I find out if I have them? How do I test for it? What can I do to protect myself? Am I just going to be at the mercy of this?

• 34:36Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And what needs to happen also on a regulatory level? So maybe you can kind of talk about, about what, what, what the diagnostic sort of framework is around this? Is there worth, is it worth look trying to find out what your levels are? And then follow on a protocol and then retest? Or is it just sort of, should we just be focusing on reducing our exposures? Help us kind of think through this because I, people are listening and probably like freaking out. And I'm like, yeah, what, what do I do? You know?

• 35:03Speaker 01

  One thing I would say is watch the plastic detox.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  Um, the movie because there's a

• 35:10Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's on Netflix, right?

• 35:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a Netflix movie now. It came out in March and um it's very widely uh watched. Seen, shown and um uh that's just a kind of an introduction and I think it's uh it will give people uh hope because what happens in can I just say briefly what happens in the

• 35:36Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yes, please.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Okay, I'll just tell you what what what the this is when we conducted an intervention where we changed things in people's lives to in order to change their health. The things we changed was um exposures to these chemicals we've been talking about and what we hope to change in their lives was their reproductive health. So to do that, we enrolled and this is very small. It was a very small pilot, okay? We enrolled six couples, one of whom dropped out for for some reasons. So uh very small. We enrolled them at the beginning of a three-month intervention and then we got information about that. We got a lot of information. We got a semen sample using a

• 36:20Speaker 01

  at-home collection kit by Fellow. Meet Fellow is the company uh worked very well. Um, we also got their urine using um Millian Marker and then we asked them lots and lots of questions. And Millian Marker has a team that's trained to ask people about their exposures and to inform them about what the risks of these exposures are. So it's an educational component to the educational component and the testing component. In their in their serum, sorry, in their urine, we got um the levels of the metabolite. So we knew what their exposure was when they started and we repeated that halfway through, which was six weeks, and then we repeated it

• 37:05Speaker 01

  after 12 weeks, which was the which was the end of the intervention. So here, the picture is pretty clear. You start out, you know what's in their body, you tell them how to reduce it, they try, they reduce it. And then we get their levels at the end. As far as their health goes, we get their sperm motility, morphometry, count, concentration, all these good things at the beginning, at the middle, at the end. And then we see who gets pregnant. Now, who were these people? These were people who had been trying for more than a year to get pregnant, and they had no obvious causes of their infertility. So idiopathic infertility. And they had to be willing to do this and be willing to be filmed, which is a pretty

• 37:48Speaker 01

  big bar, and wanting to, wanting to do this. And, but you don't, if you're listening, you don't need, you know, this intervention. You can do your own intervention, which is really interesting. And several people I've talked to, you know, hosts of shows and reporters are doing this now. You could do it if you want. You know, it's very easy to get a kit, send your urine in, have it tested, try to lower your exposure, following the tips in the film, de-plastic, unplasticyourlife.com will give you a lot of tips. I'll give you tips. And, and then try that for three months. And why three months? Well, it's because it takes 70 days to make a sperm.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  So we are approximately, you know, giving a little window there. And of course, the exposure to both the man and the woman matters. So, um, you know, and then you see what happens. You see, have your levels gone down? Has your sperm count gone up? And then if you add, which we hope to do, serum testing, home serum testing is more difficult than home urine testing. Yeah. But we are adding that and hoping to get hormone levels as well. So that's kind of the, it's not rocket science. It's pretty simple.

• 39:09Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And what did you find? And did you see after three months of doing kind of a plastic detox that people's numbers improved?

• 39:16Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Absolutely.

• 39:17Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And their sperm function improved?

• 39:18Speaker 01

  To non-detect from quite high levels. And that's shown in the film. And we also published a paper containing, a scientific paper in a peer-reviewed journal. With these data and so their levels went down.

• 39:30Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And the main, the main, the levels went down, but were the main health impacts related to the sperm function, motility, morphology, did that change?

• 39:38Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, their semen parameters changed.

• 39:41Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's really helpful.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  Yes, I, yeah, I'm, I'm excited. I'm thrilled actually to, to have this for the small sample, having this stronger result. And then we have several pregnancies as well. And three, three of the five.

• 39:57Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And were these in couples that were struggling to get pregnant?

• 39:59Speaker 01

  These were absolutely couples that had tried for more than a year, some as much as 10 years to get pregnant. And, and, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's quite encouraging actually because it was not hard. Now, this was a particularly intense intervention in the sense that they talked to Million Marker once a week. I went to their homes twice, even though they were spread around the whole country because I wanted to see their homes and meet them and talk to them one on one. And, and, um, you know, it was, it was so gratifying to get to know them and see, uh, see them go through this journey. It's thrilling to them and for me actually to know that we can

• 40:42Speaker 01

  do this. Everybody can do this. These were not like special, we chosen people, you know, they raised up their hand. They said, we'll do this. We're infertile and we'll try. And they did.

• 40:55Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's amazing. And Million Markers, a consumer environmental exposure testing company that looks at endocrine disrupting chemicals and it, it uses urine and it can take plastics and personal care products. And they're looking at things like bisphenols, like BPA, BPS, BPF. These are, you know, BPA may, you know, be reduced in certain products, but they replace it with alternatives that are just as bad or maybe worse, who knows? And it looks at thalate, metabolize parabens, which are a lot of skincare creams, sunblock oxybenzone, which is actually a lot of sunblock. So people are using all these things that think they help to help themselves, but they're actually potentially harming themselves. And so can you talk a little bit about some of these, these chemicals like bisphenol A,

• 41:36Dr. Mark Hyman?

  bisphenol A, BPS, BPF, and, and some of these compounds that are part of this whole microplastic family?

• 41:43Speaker 01

  Well, we've talked a little bit about phthalates and the other sort of big elephant in the room, if you will, for me is because of my focus on reproduction, is the bisphenols. And the bisphenols, so I think a bisphenols and phthalates is kind of evil twins. One of them, the phthalates makes plastic soft and flexible and it lowers testosterone. And the other one makes plastic hard, firm, hard, and raises estrogen. So they're kind of, no. And so we're, I talked quite a bit about the phthalates, but the bisphenols are very, very prevalent.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  And every time you go to the store and get a receipt, you know, would you like a receipt? I say, no, thanks, and you shouldn't be touching that either. Because I make a pest of myself because it's, they, I just say, send it electronically. Why would you test it? Because you, when you touch that, we've done a study, study which shows they touch that, particularly if you have hand cream on, you're getting a lot of bisphenols into your body. And every cashier gets a lot.

• 42:57Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So all those credit card receipts, you don't touch the receipts?

• 43:01Dr. Mark Hyman?

  ATM receipt, the ATM receipts, the gas station receipts, right?

• 43:05Speaker 01

  Right. I mean, half of them sent electronically. So, and then bisphenol lines a lot of things. And I think what everyone here listening would do well to pay attention to is that it lines tin cans. It lines all your tin cans unless there's a specific effort by the company to say they are not using bisphenol in their linings. And you can look for that usually on the package, read that because it's a You know, they have to make that effort and pay for that, you know, do this in a different way. And that's, you know, uh, something to call attention to. So choose, try to choose tin cans, which are not lined with bisphenol of any kind, A, B, F, whatever alphabet soup.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  You know, you put in there anything that starts with this, you know, BP.

• 43:54Dr. Mark Hyman?

  But, but does that mean you can't have things in cans?

• 43:57Speaker 01

  You can, but you need to look for companies that package their food in cans that are not lined with bisphenol. There are alternatives, but um, again, I don't mention brands, but you can look at for that on the package, or you could go to Environmental Working Group, for example, um, and look at how they rate these things. Um, there are other companies like Clearia, um, uh, and so on, that you can go to, to check out. Um, Clearia is an app. You can use it to scan a bar, you know, on the, on the thing you're buying, you, you scan that barcode and you can see what's in it. And including in the

• 44:34Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And it's called Clear?

• 44:35Speaker 01

  Clearia. C L E A R Y A. Yeah. It's an app.

• 44:40Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's helpful. Put that in the show notes. I know you've heard me talk about the importance of getting enough protein to maintain muscle as we age, but sometimes even when you eat well, meals can leave you feeling heavy, bloated, or sluggish. Now, in some cases, it's not protein, it's your digestion. And our bodies rely on enzymes to break down protein and fats and carbohydrates, so we can actually use the nutrients we eat. Now, with stress, with age, or busy lifestyles, enzyme production can fall short. And that's why I recommend Masszymes from Bioptimizers. It contains 18 different digestive enzymes, including four times more protease than many other formulas to support the breakdown of protein, fat, and carbs. Supporting digestion can help turn meals into clean fuel, so you feel

• 45:22Dr. Mark Hyman?

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• 46:04Dr. Mark Hyman?

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• 46:41Dr. Mark Hyman?

  starter kit. That's fatty15.com, F-A-T-T-Y-15.com/hyman today and use the code HYMAN to get 15% off. You know, there was, there was interesting, there was legislation introduced by Dan Feinstein in 2009 called the Ban Poisonous Addicts Act, which meant to really limit and phase out BPA in food containers, beverage containers, can linings, and other FDA kind of regulated food contact materials. But it was defeated because of the industry's massive investment in fighting it and lobbying against it. Where are we now with legislation around this? Where are we in terms of, you know, having consumer protection against these toxic chemicals?

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Not very far in this country. I want to mention two things. One is, we know how to regulate products because the FDA does it, and they do it well. They've done it for a long time, and they did it in response. I'm sure you know, but your listeners won't know, a response to two very dangerous chemicals in, in drugs. One of them was thalidomide that caused children to be born without arms and legs. And one was DES, diethylstilvestrol, which caused cancer in the children born to women who took it during pregnancy. These were, these are historic, they're old, but they're really impactful because they changed the-

• 48:06Speaker 01

  Process of the FDA. FDA responded immediately to the DES information and took DES off the market within six months of the publication of Herp's paper showing that causes cancer. So that was responsive. It was quick and they kept on. And so we know that government can respond quickly. It can regulate well, but in this case, it's not doing it largely due to the pressure of the industries that are involved and ultimately.

• 48:36Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And it's not just one drug. It's like, it's the entire chemical industry. It's not just like one molecule that we're trying to ban. It's a whole class of things that are used in everything that we consume and use every day. It's quite huge. And I think, you know, is there kind of any kind of current legislation on the books in Congress or in state legislatures that are trying to address this?

• 48:59Speaker 01

  Yes. Let me just say first, I would say that are the best, you know, most successful has been the EU with a REACH is a program that was put in place by the EU.

• 49:13Dr. Mark Hyman?

  The REACH legislation.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, REACH legislation. And it has the really important caveat, which is if you want to bring in a new product and put it in commerce, you can't do that until it's tested for safety first. We don't have that. We don't have that. We have that for drugs, but we don't have it for other products in our daily lives. So that's really what, one of the major things that has to change. And there is a TOSCA is under revision now and that will, depending how that goes, that could help. But it's a very difficult uphill battle and there are wonderful groups working on this.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  Without very much funding, of course, and, and you know, it's fighting very big, big giants of industry. It's a very slow and difficult process.

• 50:10Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I mean, yeah, we all in America bought the line, better living through chemistry. And, you know, I remember being, I'm, you might remember this, but I was in New York City, lived in Queens in 1965 during the World's Fair. And, and no, there was such a big celebration of chemicals. Dupont had a whole little, you know, dance routine and song and dance, literally song and dance about better living through chemistry. And we're all so naive at that point. And I think Rachel Carson had sort of brought up some of these issues around pesticides and herbicides. But in terms of the rest of us, it wasn't a thing. You know, it really needs to be, I think, legislation or even litigation that helps to sort of move its industry out of this because it's only getting worse. And I'm seeing it in my practice as a doctor, the effect of these. And I actually measure

• 50:55Dr. Mark Hyman?

  these things. I look at urine, I look at blood, I look at like burden, body burdens of toxins, look at cell membrane levels of these things.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  Great.

• 51:02Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And it's, it's quite staggering how much of a problem is when you start to look. Let, let's talk about, you know, the testing. Is it worth people doing the testing? Is it something they should think about doing and then reducing their exposures and then retesting? Is that, is that a worthwhile endeavor for people who want to like find out where they're at?

• 51:18Speaker 01

  It costs money, you know, several hundred dollars. I don't remember the cost right now to do the whole program. And that's one thing I should point out that this is a problem that affects people, people of lower SES more than higher SES because they can afford to be tested, they can afford cleaner products, which are always more expensive. They can afford to shop in organic stores. We haven't talked about pesticides, but those are also endocrine disrupting. And they can't afford the time if they have, you know, working two jobs, three kids. I mean, who's going to take the time to check out the labels

• 51:59Speaker 01

  and, and, you know, worry about what they're putting on it? It takes time. It takes energy, it takes money. So, you know, there's this, this is not an equal opportunity hazard for everybody, right? But, um, yes, I think if you can afford it.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  And if this will help you change your behavior, if you're gonna go into it and say, well, I just wanna know, but I don't wanna do anything about it, then don't waste your time. I mean, why do that? If you want to learn what's in your body and then, uh, commit to go on and make changes in your life, you can. You can, but you have to make the effort and you have to put in, you know, you have to do it and you have to wanna do it and then you can do it.

• 52:46Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So let's talk about, let's say, you know, with or without diagnostic testing, which I think is is an interesting thing, but we can all assume we're basically poisoned. So we should just reduce our exposures. You mentioned a few things like, you know, distilling water, filtering your water. You talked about the exposures in air, should have air filters. I have air filters in my house, in my bedroom and in the place I spend most of my time. I try not to buy things in plastic, but it's almost impossible. You know, like, uh, how do, how do people go about really reducing their exposures in their home? In their skincare products, in the environment that they're in and their food? And how do we think about creating a systematic approach to reducing exposures?

• 53:29Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Cause I think that's all we can really do at this point. And then, you know, the second follow into question that we can talk about in a minute is, is there a way to get rid of this stuff? Like, besides just reduce your exposure, can you detoxify from it? So why don't we start out with like, how do we reduce our exposures?

• 53:44Speaker 01

  So I would say watch the plastic detox, you get a good idea.

• 53:49Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Watch the plastic detox, okay, that's on my watch list, okay.

• 53:53Speaker 01

  Make a commitment to do this. Actually, what you're doing, each little thing is not gonna be that important, but, but having a commitment to reduce your exposure in your life and in your family's life. Matters, cause it takes an effort. You're gonna have to take an effort to do this, make an effort to do this. And, um, I would say I would start with your food. I think food and drink is probably the easiest and the most important perhaps target. And so that starts in the store. When I was doing the movie, I went around with Cecilia, who is a 12 year old daughter of one of the couples. And um, and it was really fun doing this with her, pointing out where the plastic was.

• 54:35Speaker 01

  And then looking at how we could avoid it in the store. You know, so looking, you can, you know, get bulk uh instead of wrapped production of of of of flour and spices and so on and so forth. Uh, and then even in your vegetables, some places have vegetables laid out, not wrapped. You can pick a like several near me because I live in San Francisco, but you can pick out a head of lettuce and pick out a whatever you're buying. And what I did with Cecilia, I said, let's, let's see if if what this costs. So we looked at the cost of the unwrapped and the wrapped and guess what? The wrapped costs more. We did it with fish, we did it with other things.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  So I would say right there, when you're buying the product, try to buy it not wrapped in plastic. And if you're doing jars, do a glass jar rather than a plastic jar and and so on and so forth. So have your eyes open in the store when you're shopping. Okay, then when you bring it home, don't put it in plastic containers because you're just undoing that good work you just did. Okay, and yeah, so put it in a glass container. You can put in ceramic. I save all my glass jars and reuse them and you know, why not? And um, and then um, worry about it when you're cooking. You know, you don't, we haven't talked about PFOS very much, but I think everyone knows that Teflon is something to be avoided and black plastic and so on.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  So think about what your food is touching on the way from your shopping bag to your stomach. You know, try to keep plastic out of the picture as much.

• 56:14Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So like cast iron, stainless steel pots, yeah.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  Cast iron is great, it's cheap and it's a little heavy, that's the, I would say, the drawback, but yes, it's, we have many.

• 56:24Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Good for strength training, I use it for strength training.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  Double, double benefit, right?

• 56:31Speaker 01

  And let me just say here, it's kind of trite by now, but do not microwave food in plastic. Never, never, never, never. Because that's, you know, what happens is that the the plasticizers which are added to the plastic are not tightly bound to that matrix. And so you heat it, the particles get active, they hop out of the plastic, they hop into your food, they get into your body. So don't do that.

• 56:59Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  Avoid that if you can.

• 57:01Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's a no no. Don't microwave in plastic. So store your food in plastic. I mean, that's the problem with takeout and delivery, right? Because it's all in plastic, really bad plastic containers.

• 57:12Speaker 01

  I don't know how, I don't know how to get at that, because a lot of the restaurants that are sending stuff out can't afford, you know, high touch containers. So, you know, they're going to do what's cheap and quick. And then we get that exposure that way. And the food is put into the containers when it's warm. So it's going to absorb more of the, yeah. So that is a problem. And taking out from restaurants is also, yeah, it's same problem. Warm food, bad containers. Yeah. No, no.

• 57:47Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Okay, so we've got, you know, filter your water, maybe air filters in your house. When you shop, don't buy stuff wrapped in plastic, buy in glass if you can. Don't cook with cookware that's got coatings on it that is nonstick that could be Teflon. I don't know if all nonstick is bad ceramic, maybe probably not bad. And that's more of nonstick. There are options, but be smart about it. And don't definitely cook anything in the microwave in plastic. Watch out for your skincare products, right? I think this is really important.

• 58:18Speaker 01

  It's the next level.

• 58:18Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, the Environmental Working Group has a great website, ewg.org, and they have an app called Skin Deep. I'm on the board of the Environmental Working Group, and they have really good resources. You can actually see what's in it. So, you know, you might not know that oxybenzone is actually a toxic plastic that's in almost sunscreens or parabens is in most skincare products. So.

• 58:40Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's, you know, unfortunately, often are more expensive and they're more challenging to get, but, but I think if you're doing something every day to your body, like it's putting stuff on it, your, your skin, basically, what I, what I, what I say to people is if you wouldn't eat it, you shouldn't put it on your skin.

• 58:54Speaker 01

  Good.

• 58:55Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Because it goes through your skin, it goes through your skin, you're absorbing it, we, we, I mean, we know in medicine, we deliver all kinds of medicines through the skin, we have estrogen patches, we have natural glycerin cream and paste, we put on people and they come in the emergency room with a heart attack because it works so fast, it gets absorbed right in the skin. We know, we know this is possible. So I think those are, those are really important, simple things you can do. And what, what else would you say, suggest that people might think about besides those things that we just talked about?

• 59:22Speaker 01

  Fragrance. I would, I would ask, ask people to think about fragrance. Again, in our studies, we asked women what they used, these were pregnant women that we were interviewing, by the way, we asked them what they used in the last 24 hours, and then we asked, was it fragranced? And so when the women reported use of fragrance products, their levels of several chemicals were higher, particularly the phthalates in their bodies. And, and so this is not just perfume, it's also your laundry detergent is fragranced, candles are fragranced, you know, plugins in the wall, things you hang in your car, there's a little pine cone, you know.

• 1:00:04Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, don't do that.

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  If you can smell it, and maybe even if you like it, you like the smell of it, don't use it. And that, that's one of the things that was hardest for participants in the, in the film, by the way.

• 1:00:19Dr. Mark Hyman?

  But there are, but there are some natural fragrances, right? There's essential oils that people use, so that there are things that are okay.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. Beeswax is great, if you like the smell of beeswax, that's, that's a really nice smell.

• 1:00:30Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah. And there are, there are brands like that, I wonder what you think of these that are like, quote, organic or more natural brands that like, for example, laundry detergent, there's a bunch of them, there's Ecover, there's Seventh Generation, are those, are those okay if they're fragranced, or are those also problems?

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't know specifically that, but I.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  I mean, you know what would be great if you weren't sure, if you had the time to ask them, manufacturers, if they got a lot of questions from people saying, um, what is the fragrance in here? And, and is it safe? And, you know, that kind of question would really, I think, make a difference. pile up if enough people did that. So if you don't know, I would ask.

• 1:01:13Dr. Mark Hyman?

  All right. Well, this has been such a fascinating conversation. I'd like to ask you a set of rapid fire questions. Are you up for that?

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:01:19Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Okay, this one's obvious. You're turning 90 this month. Like, what's your longevity tips? You're sharp, you're smart, you look beautiful. Like, I don't get it. What are you doing?

• 1:01:28Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And how do I subscribe?

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  Um, I, I would say be interested in what you do. And, um, exercise, watch what you put in your body and have a friends, friends. And I have a wonderful husband. I have wonderful family. So that's great. I'm really lucky.

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  I don't know. And genes. I, I couldn't control my genes, but I'm sure they matter.

• 1:01:57Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Well, I think those are all really important, simple but obvious tips that actually make a difference. So it's not any secret sauce. It's just the foundations. Um, okay. What, what's the number one thing in terms of all these exposures that people can do? Like, if you had to pick one thing, what would it be?

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  Uh, food.

• 1:02:15Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Food. So watch your exposures in food. Okay. And then you kind of see these cans that say BPA free and it, it gives us aura of being safe. Is it safe? Are they safe?

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  No, not necessarily. Probably not. Probably if they took the trouble to put BBA free on the label, they've already put in an alternative like BPF and BPS.

• 1:02:34Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's the problem. It's like they add other stuff that is, sounds better, but it's not. What's the biggest myth about plastics that people believe?

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  I think that it's recyclable.

• 1:02:46Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That it's recyclable. Okay, say more.

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  Well.

• 1:02:49Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Cause we all put our plastic in the recycle box.

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 1:02:51Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Man, right?

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  Me too, but very small percent of that is actually recycled and um it's dumped uh in faraway places that we don't have to worry about um and does harm there to the land landscape and to the people who are going through it and handling it. Um, don't, just don't assume that you, once you throw it away, it's, you don't have to care about it anymore. You do have to care about it. Uh, it's not gonna disappear.

• 1:03:18Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I think that's important. A friend of mine started a company called Hero Technologies, developing mushrooms, different strains of mycelium that actually can digest and break down mushrooms in landfills and they, they're starting with diapers, but it's like, it's a kind of a cool idea. So what's the, what, you mentioned food, but what's that one other thing in your home that people can immediately remove that would make a difference?

• 1:03:38Speaker 01

  I would say after food, it would be your water, cleaning up your water, because there's so much exposure through water. And then third would be air, filtering your, you know, using a HEPA filter would be good.

• 1:03:49Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So there are things you can do.

• 1:03:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:51Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Water, air, food. I think those are important. What's first, heating in plastic or storing in plastic?

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  Oh, heating in plastic. No question.

• 1:03:58Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Heating in plastic. I knew that was clearly the answer. What's the, what's the biggest mistake people make in their kitchen?

• 1:04:05Speaker 01

  I think the biggest mistake is probably storing in plastic because so much is stored in plastic. It's so hard. Uh, I have plastic in my kitchen. I have, can, true confessions. I don't, I'm not, my kitchen's not plastic free, uh, completely. And, and so that's, it's just really hard and it's nonstop. You know, it's coming in when you do takeout and it's coming in when you shop and it come in, you know, so, you know, it's just a, hard to think of getting ahead of it.

• 1:04:30Dr. Mark Hyman?

  What do most people do every day they're not aware of that increases their exposures?

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  Well, we didn't mention clothing, um, but.

• 1:04:40Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Okay.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's something that, we, you know, we're just coming to belatedly, I would say, awareness of, uh, the, the, the chemicals and there are many, many, uh, plastics and in fibers and dyes and in our clothing and it's everywhere. You know, it's on our beds, it's on our sofas, it's, you know, on our bodies and, um. And it's particularly concerning if you use clothing that has barriers like attendance, flight attendants, firefighters, sportswear, children's school uniforms. PFOS is the class of chemical I'm talking about. That's added to all of these.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  And it's invisible to us. We haven't.

• 1:05:28Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So stick with, stick with natural fibers, natural fibers, wool, cotton, silk, linen, right?

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  Right. When you can, yes.

• 1:05:36Dr. Mark Hyman?

  What's worse, a plastic straw or a plastic fork?

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  Oh, boy, I don't know. I think you probably use that plastic fork more. And I don't know how they compare in terms of exposure. I don't know more than that.

• 1:05:53Dr. Mark Hyman?

  If you were the environmental czar for America and the world, what would be the policy you would put in place to make things different?

• 1:06:00Speaker 01

  I would, um, I would solve two million dollar questions. Moonshot questions. One is, how do we make plastics out of safer products rather than fossil fuels? So we know that there are plastics made of plants. There's potato-based plastics. Right now, they're kind of niche items. They're expensive. But I think money should be put into that. We should then solve the problem of how to get rid of the plastics once we've made them.

• 1:06:35Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And on the, on the policy front, it's, it's actually investing in those things.

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  One more, just to add to that, we need to be clear about what it means for something to be safe. Because we need to say, safe for home, at what age, for what systems and so on. Testing for safety is very difficult because it's easy to say it should be tested for safety before it's put out there. But think of all the tests you have to do, you know, you know, you test all these systems in the body and so on. So that's very difficult. It's all a hard problem. And by the way, it shouldn't be consumers' problems. It should be governments' problems. And manufacturers, manufacturers.

• 1:07:12Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I agree. And we didn't, we didn't really kind of dive into this, but you kind of hinted at it. In, in Europe, they follow something called the precautionary principle, which is something's guilty until proven innocent. In America, it's innocent until proven guilty. So we introduce all these toxic chemicals. We don't make the manufacturers prove they're safe. We let them be in the marketplace. We let people be exposed. We let people get sick. And then maybe 10, 20, 40, 50, 100 years later, we go, oh, wait, we have a problem. And they, you know, and I think that's not a good framework for policy. It should be prove it, not you're given a hall pass and like, let's see what happens. And I think that's, that's really important. A last question is, what's the most surprising thing you've learned in your long and varied career?

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:07:59Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I know. That's a hard one, right?

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  I, I would say, because I am an optimist, I, I learned that we can make a difference by our action, that we can clean up our act and that really people want to. And, and so I want to make, help make that happen.

• 1:08:25Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Thank you. That's amazing. Okay. People can find out more about you by going to your website, which is?

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  Go to shaunaswan.com.

• 1:08:30Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You've got unplasticyourlife.com, right? Unplasticyourlife.com.

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  That's not mine. That's the film or additional help. I would suggest you, if you want to test your sperm, you go to meet fellow. If you want to test your urine, you go to a million marker. And there are other companies be coming out all the time. So this is not going to be the only ones. But I think the question is, do you want to know? Do you want to know what's in your body? Do you want to, men don't ever know their sperm count, by the way. They just don't. So if you want to know about what's going on in your body and in your home. Then dive in, don't be afraid and yeah, do it.

• 1:09:06Dr. Mark Hyman?

  We actually did a podcast on, you know, sperm as a biomarker for health.

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:09:11Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I think that's important. People don't understand that. So, um, this is amazing. Thank you for your work. I hope you get to go for another 90 years. And, uh, well, I look forward to your next, your next chapter and what you're going to help us understand about this very frightening world, but hopefully with some, some optimism and how we can protect ourselves and how we can push our governments to do the right thing. So thanks so much for your work and for being such a light in this whole dark space.

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me so much. I really enjoyed talking to you and, you know, together we can make a change.

• 1:09:43Dr. Mark Hyman?

  If you love this podcast, please share it with someone else you think would also enjoy it. You can find me on all social media channels at Dr. Mark Hyman. Please reach out. I'd love to hear your comments and questions. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to the Dr. Hyman Show wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to check out my YouTube channel at Dr. Mark Hyman for video versions of this podcast and more. Thank you so much again for tuning in. We'll see you next time on the Dr. Hyman Show. This podcast is separate from my clinical practice at the Ultra Wellness Center, my work at Cleveland Clinic, and Function Health, where I am Chief Medical Officer. This podcast represents my opinions and my guests' opinions. Neither myself nor the podcast endorses the views or statements of my guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional.

• 1:10:28Dr. Mark Hyman?

  This podcast is provided with the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. If you're looking for help in your journey, please seek out a qualified medical practitioner. And if you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner, visit my clinic, the Ultra Wellness Center at UltraWellnessCenter.com, and request to become a patient. It's important to have someone in your corner who is a trained, licensed healthcare practitioner and can help you make changes, especially when it comes to your health. This podcast is free as part of my mission to bring practical ways of improving health to the public. So I'd like to express gratitude to sponsors that made today's podcast possible. Thanks so much again for listening. When it comes to supplements, you only want the best for your body, the kind with the highest quality, cleanest, and most potent ingredients you can get.

• 1:11:13Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's exactly what you'll find at my supplement store, where I've hand-selected each and every product to meet the most rigorous standards for safety, purity, and effectiveness. These are the only supplements I recommend to my patients, and they're also what I use myself. Whether you want to optimize longevity, or reduce your disease risk, or you're looking to improve your sleep, blood sugar, metabolism, gut health, you name it, drhyman.com has the world's best selection of top-quality, premium supplements, all backed by science and expertly vetted by me, Dr. Mark Hyman. So check out drhyman.com, because when it comes to your health, nothing less than the very best will do. That's drhyman.com, D-R-H-Y-M-A-N dot com.