Phil Heath 7x Mr. Olympia Talks Bodybuilding, Mental Health & Personal Struggles

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast FOLLOW HAPPY DAD: https://www.instagram.com/happydad FIND HAPPY DAD: https://www.happydad.com/find Phil Heath, one of the greatest body builders of all time and a seven-time winner of Mr. Olympia joins The Pivot in a special Friday conversation talking his journey into fitness and performance as well his personal struggles along the way. Sitting down with Ryan, Fred and Channing, Phil details his path from his childhood dream of being a professional athlete to wrestling to finding his calling as a bodybuilder. But a lot of success didn’t come without a lot of struggle. Overcoming mental health issues and loss, Phil turned his setbacks into motivation and explains how he was able to make peace after suffering emotional disappointments. And no show would be complete without Channing being able to ask the questions we all want to know but wouldn’t dare say out loud! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:32Channing Crowder?

  Hey, goddamn fellas, fellas. Goddamn.

• 0:35Fred Taylor?

  Yo.

• 0:36Channing Crowder?

  Why you walking for me like that? Go ahead now, bro. I got you. Go ahead. Why you walking for me like that?

• 0:41Fred Taylor?

  Why you raising up?

• 0:42Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, yeah. What up, Doug? How you doing?

• 0:45Fred Taylor?

  Good to see you.

• 0:46Ryan Clark?

  Good to see you.

• 0:48Fred Taylor?

  He froze. He froze. You see how he froze? My man. Yeah, boss. How you doing? Good.

• 0:54Channing Crowder?

  Appreciate you, baby.

• 0:55Fred Taylor?

  Yo, Doug. Man, you froze, man. You in season right now, Phil? Nah. So you can have a drink? Yeah, I can. Happy day. Crack it open, Chad.

• 1:05Channing Crowder?

  You got some babies? You got kids?

• 1:08Fred Taylor?

  Nope.

• 1:08Channing Crowder?

  None? Yeah, well, it's gonna make you have kids.

• 1:10Fred Taylor?

  Oh, damn.

• 1:13Ryan Clark?

  Hey, you know, he's a... He's seven-time Mr. Olympia, though, man.

• 1:16Channing Crowder?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, I done seen.

• 1:18Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, he probably couldn't drink and stuff like that when you're training.

• 1:21Channing Crowder?

  No.

• 1:44Ryan Clark?

  By the way, man, welcome to the pivot. Everybody wants you to...

• 1:47Fred Taylor?

  I appreciate it.

• 1:48Ryan Clark?

  To subscribe, like, you know what I mean? We appreciate all the support, all the help.

• 1:51Fred Taylor?

  Cheers, guys.

• 1:52Ryan Clark?

  So, I'm just gonna get right to it, Phil. Um, what makes any human decide he gonna lift all the weights in the gym?

• 2:03Ryan Clark?

  You know what I mean, because, listen, bro, we all trained, we all lift, you know, we all had to be guys who put the work in to play the sport.

• 2:11Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:12Ryan Clark?

  But it's different in what you do, you know, the eating regimens, the making sure you peak at the right time. We see the end result. When you growing up in Seattle, like, what pushes you toward this way of life?

• 2:27Speaker 04

  Well, living in Seattle, I definitely wasn't thinking about bodybuilding.

• 2:30Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 2:31Speaker 04

  You know, playing hoop, you know, I got the great chance to play with Jamal Crawford at Ranger Beach High School, was able to win state with him back in 98, got a Division One scholarship at the University of Denver, small school, but still played D1. Those hoop dreams didn't last very long, you know, but I did graduate with a degree in business and also IT. But during one of those classes in IT, I was sitting next to a student who was actually in the bodybuilding. And on his laptop, he had all these dudes, you know, in posing trunks, and I got a naked woman on mine.

• 3:06Ryan Clark?

  My man. Yeah, he's trying to figure out, he's trying to figure out what's wrong with his screen as compared to my screen.

• 3:11Speaker 04

  Right. So I got Brooke Burke on mine, I don't even remember who she was, but yeah, so he introduced me to that world, and I watched him compete. Then I just thought, man, this is pretty dope, you know, going from the varsity weight room just to where the students are, seeing all that camaraderie, it kind of reminded me of what it was like, you know, playing, you know, just being around one of the guys, we're always pushing each other, even in basketball, you know, we're still lifting weights, just different. And this was completely different. So once I got into that, that was like spring of '02, and later on that year, I was like, well, there's no more hoop for me.

• 3:50Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 3:50Speaker 04

  You know, what are you gonna do? And I still had, you know, a following year left, because I did five years. Then I just said, you know what, screw it. In October 8, 2002, I decided to be a bodybuilder. Didn't know really what I was doing. I just knew I wanted to look better.

• 4:06Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 4:06Speaker 04

  You know, my shirt off. Wanted to do my thing. I knew I had some genetics, because I had big calves growing up. So you know, a lot of brothers ain't got no calves.

• 4:12Ryan Clark?

  I ain't got none, coach.

• 4:13Speaker 04

  So, so there you go, right, right? So I'm like, I must've got something. So, you know, got into that, and then six months later, I'm doing my first amateur show in Boulder, Colorado. Won the whole damn, whole damn thing, and just steamrolled through the amateurs. Next thing you know, I'm getting flown out to meet Joe Weider and Flex Magazine, Muscle and Fitness. Then they handed me a check saying, hey, you could just do this for a living. I'm like, wait a minute. I can be in these magazines all over the world, I just gotta hold up a product or hold up some dumbbells? Y'all gonna write me a check for this? They're like, yes. I'm like, man, let's go.

• 4:48Ryan Clark?

  Were you a tough kid, though, like, growing up? Because, you know, you said you hooped, and then you get, you get into, into bodybuilding. And, you know, we've had, we had Juliana Pena on, and she kind of talked about what was a part of her transformation. She said she was a chubby kid, she goes to a cardio kickboxing class, and, and, and it starts her life into what it ended up being. And now she's the bantamweight champ in the, in the UFC. Were, were you one of those kids that, that, that were tough, always into working out and those type of things? Or was it just being able to see that, and seeing those guys on the screen, kind of popped something into your head and said, okay, I want to do this for a living?

• 5:23Speaker 04

  I always knew I wanted to be a pro at something. Uh, growing up, I was raised as an only child, but, uh, you know, I had some very competitive neighbors. I grew up with the, uh, the Burleson family, so Nate Burleson, Kevin, you know, I grew up with them. And a few other families that had a bunch of boys. So I was very, very competitive growing up. Um, tough, you had to be. I was always the shortest, but I had to be the fastest and be one of the strongest. Always, uh, my idol growing up was Bo Jackson, you know, always wanting to, you know, work out. Seeing him run, Herschel Walker, same thing, the Herschel Walker workout. Did one thousand pushups, situps, all that stuff. So I was really into that, you know, working out nonstop. And me being the only child, I mean, I really had nothing else to do but that. And I was always just trying to be competitive.

• 6:08Speaker 04

  Um, I competed in martial arts, growing up, uh, being an only child, you ain't got no brothers and sisters to go fight for you, so...

• 6:15Ryan Clark?

  Was, was your upbringing tough? Because you keep mentioning being an only child. Was it one of those things where it was tough for you, and I, and I would guess your mother, as, as, as you were trying to figure it out and navigate it?

• 6:28Speaker 04

  I would say so. Um, my mom, yeah, now you mention it. So my mom, uh, and my biological father split when I was like two and a half. So that, that created some stress later. Um, she did find a new mate, you know, my stepfather, who helped raise me, which I was very appreciative of. Um, but yeah, living in that South End of Seattle, it wasn't very cool. You know, it was a lot of violence. Um, we literally still to this day, they still have bars on their windows. So, yeah, I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't easy growing up, definitely. Uh, high school shootings, all, you name it. I mean, Rainier Beach High School, I mean, is definitely one of those areas where in the South Side,

• 7:11Speaker 04

  it, it just wasn't, when people think of Seattle, they're not thinking of violence. There's plenty of it there, plenty of it there. So you had to be tough. You had to be a self-starter. You had to want more for yourself. I just knew that I wanted to get the hell out of there. So I was willing to do whatever it took to, to do that, being a good student, you know, wanting to make sure that, I just didn't want to create more stress on my parents at the end of the day. Cause I knew that they both worked hard. My, my stepdad worked at the NBC News affiliate, King 5. My mom worked in the cargo services for Sealand. My real dad, he worked at Nordstrom, he worked at Home Depot, like he, but he worked. I just wanted to work. I just wanted to make sure that I was holding up my end of the bargain.

• 7:54Speaker 04

  Um, because I saw what my friends were doing and even though I was kicking it with them, I knew when to bring my ass home. And to, you know, stay hunkered down on fundamentals, you know, using sports as an outlet along with academics to get out of there and make something of myself.

• 8:07Channing Crowder?

  Seven-time Mr. Olympian, like it just, I've, I've seen in your goddamn back and all that shit, your lats. But like, it, it, are you an extremist? Because we are, like RC just said, we all worked out. But you work out to a level that normal humans can't work out. Like you work out to a level that's above what normal people, even ex-athletes can do. Do you think your upbringing or anything you've been through or, you know, saying where you came from, did that create that, I would say, you let me know if I'm wrong, an extremist, uh, approach to that?

• 8:44Speaker 04

  Being the shortest on every basketball team I was ever on. Knowing that, uh, I had to be accountable for not just myself, but for everybody else, had to work extremely hard. I just knew what hard work was. And then when it came down to bodybuilding, you gotta keep in mind, like, my whole goal was to be a pro basketball guy. Even though I was undersized, I was just like, that's what I want. And that opportunity, at the end of the day, I just wasn't good enough to do it, obviously. Um, so I was very, very depressed. I went into massive depression, um, suicidal at one point. Just, you know, it hurt because I was watching all my friends, you know, make it into football. You know, you gotta think, like, I grew up around, like, guys like Corey Dillon. You know, I grew up around guys like Jason Terry. I got to see, like,

• 9:29Speaker 04

  the cars, the jewel, you know, all that cool. All that cool stuff.

• 9:32Fred Taylor?

  And you wanted that.

• 9:33Speaker 04

  I wanted that too. And then when that was just like, sorry, that ain't for you, it, it killed, it almost killed me. It literally almost killed me. You know, good old saying goes, you know, like, the world's rejection is God's protection. So, I managed to look at my second act, or third act, and look at bodybuilding as that, that was a way that I could quote-unquote pivot into something new. And I could take with me all the things that I learned, you know, for those previous twenty-some years, you know, and I made the best of it.

• 10:05Fred Taylor?

  So, prior to you getting into it, um, what, what size, like, your size, your weight? Like, did you have muscles? Were you always as structured?

• 10:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:15Fred Taylor?

  You know, physically structured as you are now?

• 10:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, pretty much. I mean, a lot of people would, would have classified me as some type of football player, you know, growing up. Um, my mom didn't want me playing. I played one season, you know, in high school. I liked it, but, you know, my mom was just like, no, stick with hoop and track, just do that. Um, but I was always muscular, growing up. In fact, a lot of people thought the University of Denver had a football team. And I was just the guy, you know? They're like, you don't, you, what? Who's this guy?

• 10:47Ryan Clark?

  You was definitely out there fouling, though.

• 10:49Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, I do want to know.

• 10:52Speaker 04

  I wasn't, I wasn't that dude. You know, you know, the guy that plays at the rec and is just like beating the hell out of people? No, that wasn't me. That was not me, but, uh.

• 11:00Fred Taylor?

  What position, what position you play on the court?

• 11:02Speaker 04

  I was a combo guard, so I'd play, you know, I played the two on offense and the one on defense.

• 11:08Fred Taylor?

  Okay.

• 11:08Speaker 04

  So, you know, I was, we played in the Sun Belt Conference, so we played, you know, Lafayette, uh, University of New Orleans, Western Kentucky.

• 11:18Speaker 04

  North Texas, Arkansas State, Little Rock, you know, all those teams, Florida International.

• 11:23Fred Taylor?

  Okay.

• 11:23Speaker 04

  So I gotta play against some decent guys, you know, obviously, but I was a defensive stopper normally. I was that guy that would just, I was the, I was the annoying, you know, guard that would be in your jock the whole time, but.

• 11:35Ryan Clark?

  Listen, man, you ain't gotta stop, keep stopping yourself from cursing. Like, every, every.

• 11:42Channing Crowder?

  He was about to say mother.

• 11:43Ryan Clark?

  Right, yeah.

• 11:44Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yeah, you can say mother.

• 11:46Ryan Clark?

  Like, he been trying to hold it, and I hate to take it away from, I hate to take it away from, from this moment. But you mentioned, you know, violence isn't what Seattle is, is known for.

• 12:00Ryan Clark?

  Seattle is known for their suicide rate.

• 12:04Ryan Clark?

  Recently, especially in, in, in females, young females and female collegiate sports, there's been a rash of, of suicides. When you say you got to the point where you were depressed, you got to the point where you were suicidal. What were those times like for you?

• 12:27Speaker 04

  Well, you definitely feel alone. So while I'm comparing my life to teammates and the other friends that are also playing Division One, I'm not getting the minutes that I felt like I deserved. I was the guy that would literally stand up and say, Coach, what is it that I need to do to get more minutes? I'm gonna be extremely competitive with my teammates, but what do you need me to do? Cause I don't like sitting here. And he would tell me I would complete that task and then still not get the minutes. And over time, it just started killing me. Instead of going back to the dorm or going back to the basketball house to go hang out,

• 13:08Speaker 04

  I would go for a run, like three miles and just bawl my eyes out. Just like, why am I here? I should have went to a bigger school. I could have done that. I chose to go to the small ass school because I thought I was gonna be the man. I'm not.

• 13:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, I got injured my sophomore year, but that didn't really matter, you know, like I'm still competitive. I'm still able to contribute. I just wanna contribute to this team and this mother right here ain't letting me do it. And when I do get in, I'm getting in the book. You know what I'm saying, like I'm actually not just some scrub, I'm not just some guy that doesn't know what he's doing. But it's one thing to not get those game reps and then when you finally get in, you're kind of just, you know, making sure everybody else get off. And um, when we were losing, that's when I really got upset. So I was just very, very hurt. Over the fact that we weren't playing well, the coach wasn't looking at it as a way for me to contribute and. You know, next thing you know, I'm.

• 14:10Speaker 04

  Next thing you know, I'm laying in the street. Hoping that someone ran my ass over. And.

• 14:17Fred Taylor?

  We were laying in the road.

• 14:18Speaker 04

  In the median.

• 14:21Speaker 04

  And.

• 14:24Speaker 04

  I just felt like I was nothing. Cause I put my whole entire identity into this sport. And I thought that this was going to yield something bigger. You know, being able to, you know, okay, NBA not, not gonna happen. I can still go play ball overseas. I can still do other things. I can still contribute. To my family, to my mom, like everybody wants to buy something for their parents. I want to be able to do those things. I want to see the same reaction that people had when guys like. Jett and Jamal, when shit Jamal only played like half a season and he got picked up, you know, I'm thinking. Let me get some of that. I'll do the work.

• 15:04Speaker 04

  And when that didn't come into fruition and then just being lied to, at the end of the day, you know, coaches are gonna tell kids what they want to hear sometimes, then they ain't gonna tell you anything at all. So I just didn't feel like there was anything that was gonna get me out of this situation but death. And uh, thank God that didn't happen. And now I feel like, you know, later on. Holy smokes. I was saved. Because I would have never accomplished. What I've done so far, you know, but when you're 20 years old, 21 years old, you don't know anything.

• 15:39Fred Taylor?

  And I feel sad, you know, for anyone that, that goes through depression. I've experienced anxiety. I, I, I go through anxiety now. And I have my medicine on call. And I feel really bad for anyone that's suicidal, right? I've never had those thoughts.

• 15:58Fred Taylor?

  But it's, it's, it's, it's.

• 16:02Fred Taylor?

  I try to wrap my head around when someone does go through suicidal moments. And you hear about someone doing this to commit suicide, or doing this to commit suicide. You say you laid in the street.

• 16:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:16Fred Taylor?

  I don't want to really take away from that moment, right? Because your thoughts are your thoughts, you know, your actions are your actions. What made you say, I, I need to lay in the street to do this? As opposed to, you know, a gun or pills or, I mean, I, I don't know.

• 16:32Speaker 04

  I didn't have it.

• 16:35Speaker 04

  I didn't have a gun.

• 16:37Speaker 04

  I didn't have pills. I didn't, you know, could I have gone to the store, I guess, and grabbed a bunch of Sudafed or Avil's and just go do that? I guess. I wasn't really into drinking at the time until, I didn't really drink until I was 21 years old. So I was kind of a straight edge growing up. Like, anyone that knew me, like, I would, they would have said, Phil, like, nah, he's in the books and in the gym, that's it. And his girlfriend, that's it, you know? For me, I thought, how reckless was it to do something like what I saw in that movie, The Program? Guy laid in the street, right? So I was like, well, yeah, let me just go ahead and do the same thing then and see what happened.

• 17:12Fred Taylor?

  Okay.

• 17:12Speaker 04

  And, um, yeah, a lot of, you know, what's crazy is that when you're laying down there, you, you don't hear anything.

• 17:50Speaker 04

  I didn't hear anything.

• 17:53Speaker 04

  And I kind of realized at one point in time, like, I guess this ain't supposed to happen then. So, I stopped doing it. Cause I did it more than once. It wasn't just like, oh, I'm just gonna do it one time. Went after probably two, three times and then I realized like, this, I guess this ain't working out. So, I'm a realist too and I'm thinking, well, I must be designed to do something big or something clicked. And I'm glad that that happened and that's why I went in that bodybuilding direction so fierce. So when I started having success in that bodybuilding career,

• 18:33Speaker 04

  there was no one that was gonna stop me because I knew that it was all on me. This was the one sport that I didn't have to have a coach.

• 18:42Speaker 04

  Could I hire a nutritionist? Yeah, but like, I trained by myself throughout the entire career.

• 18:48Speaker 04

  I bust my own ass every day. And I knew that the opposition was not ready for that. Because I wanted it more than, when they say you want it more than air, people say that they're hungry for something. Man, I was fucking starving. I was starving for something better. I was starving for that greatness. I was starving for excellence. And I knew that I was saved to do something different. If you'd have said, hey Phil, you gotta be up at five in the morning. I was up at 4:45. What are you talking about? Like, I was ready to go. Like, if someone said I was gonna, Phil, how do you feel about winning it your second time? It's like, are you fucking out of your mind? You don't know where I've come from.

• 19:28Speaker 04

  So, the fans unfortunately didn't understand that because of social media. I was really the first Mr. Olympia to go through that social media part.

• 19:37Speaker 04

  So, trying to explain yourself, you can't. Like, you get to a certain level, you're gonna be misunderstood. But I learned to be okay with that, just because of what I had to deal with prior. I was like, you guys don't get it. Like, I've toured around the world. I've flown over two million freaking miles. I've gone through three passports. I've seen things that you, none of my friends have really, really seen. Even people that make way more money than me. But I was able to have real good experiences by not giving up. So, that's what made me realize like,

• 20:05Speaker 04

  you were saved to do something better.

• 20:08Channing Crowder?

  Your pivot was forced.

• 20:12Channing Crowder?

  By laying in the goddamn street hoping a car comes and runs your ass over, bro? That's what your pivot, that's where your pivot manifested from?

• 20:22Speaker 04

  I, obviously, I decided that I wanted life.

• 20:26Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 20:27Speaker 04

  And I decided that when there was a new opportunity that I didn't mess it up.

• 20:32Speaker 04

  I didn't, I didn't mess that up at all. During those years of competing,

• 20:38Speaker 04

  there was no chance they could win because I was willing to, look, I'd be up at four something in the morning doing cardio at five. I literally would be doing that, sauna, hyperbaric, acupuncture, all the, the whole nine. Anything that you guys would have in your training table, I did. I used all the sponsorship dollars to buy the same thing. Because I knew I, I had to treat myself with a higher standard. So, I knew that the people who I was going against may not be as intelligent or as, or as, um, present of knowing that it ain't just about like training and killing yourself in the gym. Man, I gotta recover too.

• 21:20Speaker 04

  So I learned just from that training table in college that I need to apply that in this. So I made sure I was always doing that. I was always researching how to recover faster. Because I was also going against competitors that had been doing this for 10 plus years, longer. And I had to get, I had to get there, quick. Um, because I was the one that was on the cover of Flex magazine before I even won my pro card. That's unheard of. It had a 22 page spread with a poster of me inside with me actually dunking a basketball. That was my first cover of Flex magazine.

• 21:48Channing Crowder?

  I knew you can't dunk, no?

• 21:50Speaker 04

  Hell, no. Hell, no. I ain't go, I ain't go act like a.

• 21:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, you know, I could.

• 22:00Channing Crowder?

  Get your big ass himself, boy.

• 22:01Speaker 04

  That ain't happening.

• 22:03Ryan Clark?

  Hey, you know, um, you know, listening to Freddie ask that question, I, uh, unfortunately had a real close friend commit suicide in, uh, in college. Uh, we played little league ball together. We went to the same high school. Uh, he was my host on my visit to LSU.

• 22:22Ryan Clark?

  And you know, I think he obviously took his life, but I think you also rob other people around you of enjoying and creating memories with you. When I listen to you say, you know, you laid in the road in no way to minimize what you were going through. I think you knew you had a bigger purpose. I don't think you wanted to go, you know? And I think God did save you for a reason. God didn't make you because what's probably worse is if you get hit by a car, you don't die. And now, and now you don't have the use of your limbs. Now you don't have the ability to walk, the ability to train. So I thank God for that.

• 23:05Ryan Clark?

  Moving forward, you know, I grew up in, I grew up in New Orleans. He grew up in Georgia. He's from Florida. Like, there is, at no time in my life, bro, that I think, man, I'm about to eat all this dang protein, I'm about to lift all these weights, and I'm gonna wear these bikini drawers and flex my muscles in front of people. Like, at no time in my life did I think that. So, so, so, so Phil, that's, that's, that's a pivot, right? That was a pivot. So, so Phil, when, when you start preparing to be a professional bodybuilder, bro, what's that transition like? Like, like, does it go from now, is it, I'm working out, I'm, I'm working out from the beginning of the morning. I'm waking up at 3 a.m. to make sure I get the, the right amount of calories.

• 23:49Ryan Clark?

  I'm flexing in the mirror at damn LA Fitness, while the little dude behind me doing the tens on the curls. How did you prepare for your career? And what was that first competition like for you?

• 24:01Speaker 04

  Oh, my gosh. So the, uh, back then, we're talking like late 2002, where you couldn't go to a gym and just peel off and start posing. You literally had to go up to the gym manager and say, hey, I'd like to use your exercise, you know, fitness room, where they do like the spin class, the yoga class, whatever, because they have all the mirrors. And you're not gonna disturb anybody, so I would do that. And that's how I kind of learned and just by researching, you know, watching videos of like Ronnie Coleman, Jay Cutler, like all these guys,

• 24:34Speaker 04

  buying the magazines. That's how I really learned. I had some guys, you know, helping me out with that, but I will say the funniest thing was when I'm in the gym and I'm getting ready for my first comp and my training partner, uh, named John Bauer and Josh Crandall, they were like, "All right, now strip." I was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa."

• 24:56Speaker 04

  "What?" "You know, pull your damn pants down, man. You got drawers on, right?" I was like, "Yeah, I got drawers on." They're like, "Well, you gotta, you know, we gotta see what your legs look like, like if, you know..."

• 25:04Fred Taylor?

  See what your legs look like.

• 25:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, because if you look like you're riding it, yeah, yeah.

• 25:11Fred Taylor?

  Why Eddie Murphy say? You're mighty good in them damn jeans, bro.

• 25:17Speaker 04

  Wasn't that, but at the end of the day, that was, that was my first introduction of like, "Wait a minute, like, I literally have to wear that." "Oh, how are we gonna prepare for that?" I didn't put too much stress on it because everybody else was doing it at the same time. And I just looked at myself as a work of art. And I'll be honest, if I didn't, if I didn't look, look the part, I would have felt more nervous. Didn't mean I wasn't. So that first competition I did, April 4, 2003 in Boulder, Colorado, um, quick story. I was still living in the basketball house. I begged them not to bring the party home. Of course, they did. Kept me up all night. Set them in my car, which was in the garage.

• 25:57Speaker 04

  I got up at 7:30, drove up to Boulder, did the show, didn't know what the hell I was doing, but I won every category.

• 26:04Fred Taylor?

  Wow.

• 26:05Speaker 04

  The novice and the open overall title. And I drove back. Um, we had to go drink after that, you know, I was like, "Let me go ahead and, you know, been dieting, whatever, let's go have some fun." But one thing I learned about that part, can't be having all that even after you're done because you've been dehydrated. Now your body's gonna store every carbohydrate, every ounce of water. Man, I looked like I never dieted a day in my life the day after the show. So then I learned very fast that if I'm gonna do this, it's gonna be very difficult to be a rock star and a bodybuilder at the same damn time. Y'all sport, I've seen y'all.

• 26:42Speaker 04

  Y'all can do whatever the hell you want. In-season, off-season, like, yeah, y'all supposed to be, you know, curfew, my ass, like, I used to live downtown Denver, I used to see everybody like doing their thing.

• 26:54Ryan Clark?

  I'm not sure what you're talking about.

• 26:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, okay, yeah, okay.

• 26:56Channing Crowder?

  Oh, yeah, they was sleep, Freddie was sleep during the season.

• 26:58Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I was sleeping.

• 26:59Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, bro, I was out.

• 27:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, you was out.

• 27:01Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yeah, I was calling up Hennessy, Hennessy Sunday mornings. I made me some tacos, though.

• 27:10Speaker 04

  But, yeah, no, you realize, like, even after that first show, what, what your standards have to be. And they just grew higher and higher and higher because I, I saw the potential in myself and even winning, you know, from amateur to pro, now I'm being paid for this, now this is, you ain't gonna be messing with my money, you know, my opportunity, so creating standards was an issue. I still learned how to have some balance and have some fun, especially traveling around the world, girls, all that cool stuff, you know, you, you wanna dabble.

• 27:48Ryan Clark?

  Chan, ain't no way he can dabble like talking about all these muscles, though.

• 27:54Speaker 04

  I'm just.

• 27:55Channing Crowder?

  He has that, you have to have sexual limitations. I'm the nasty one, bro. With all them muscles, bro, you can't lay up on top of nobody. Missionary is done. Like, for you to be on top is curtains, right?

• 28:09Speaker 04

  She liked it.

• 28:11Channing Crowder?

  Who? What's her name?

• 28:12Speaker 04

  My girl.

• 28:14Ryan Clark?

  What you mean?

• 28:15Channing Crowder?

  But there gotta be limitations, bro, right here. See, 'cause I, I, I like ba-, we do baby style with my wife, like, I pull my legs up, like, you, your legs are too big to pull up. You got big thigh, you got big ass hamstrings and, and groin around your dick.

• 28:29Speaker 04

  The problem, the problem is. I was 30 pounds heavier back then, so yes, that was a problem. Like, she'd be like, "Get up off me."

• 28:40Ryan Clark?

  I feel like too though-

• 28:41Speaker 04

  You done? Like, you're done, right? Like, 'cause you gotta get up off me now.

• 28:44Channing Crowder?

  No, Jack, you got that creatine in you. That creatine get them right now. That creatine get that man right.

• 28:49Ryan Clark?

  Hey, I feel like too, man, that gotta be like a lot of expectation, right? You know, I'm not a very large human, so I feel like when you meet a girl, she gonna feel like she gonna get tossed around the room. You gotta do some carrying, you know what I mean?

• 29:01Channing Crowder?

  You gotta talk crazy to her.

• 29:02Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, yeah, like at some point-

• 29:03Speaker 04

  You definitely gotta talk crazy to her.

• 29:05Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 29:05Ryan Clark?

  No, you can't. There's no way you-

• 29:06Channing Crowder?

  Come here daddy.

• 29:07Ryan Clark?

  He can't talk crazy. That big old dude talk crazy to the chick? No, he can't, he can't do that. He gotta talk, he gotta be sweet.

• 29:13Channing Crowder?

  No, you got the wrong woman. Come over here.

• 29:16Speaker 04

  I'm with him.

• 29:17Channing Crowder?

  Come over here. Put your leg up there.

• 29:20Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 29:22Fred Taylor?

  See, these guys, this one-

• 29:25Speaker 04

  This one's funny.

• 29:26Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, he's gonna go over there.

• 29:27Speaker 04

  He's gonna go way beyond-

• 29:28Fred Taylor?

  You gotta put him over there. I always gotta pivot back to, you know, what we need to get to.

• 29:34Ryan Clark?

  I was actually very interested-

• 29:36Speaker 04

  No, no, seriously.

• 29:38Fred Taylor?

  You, you, you did mention, I, I, I wanted to know about the money. You mentioned the money, being a pro, messing around with your money. So I wanted to know about that, but before you get into that, because I know it's a lot of sponsorships involved and all this other stuff. But before you get into that, just, just go back to, we see you guys. You know, you, you got your thing, thing, you know what I'm saying? Your, what is it called?

• 30:02Speaker 04

  Posen trunks.

• 30:03Fred Taylor?

  Posen trunks, I like that. I was gonna call them Speedos.

• 30:06Speaker 04

  You can call them that, yeah.

• 30:07Fred Taylor?

  But, Posen trunks.

• 30:08Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 30:09Fred Taylor?

  And, and you're ripped up and you, you know, you're flexing and all that, right? Um, what are the judges looking at? Because I don't, I don't-

• 30:16Speaker 04

  Right.

• 30:16Fred Taylor?

  I don't know. All you guys look great up there.

• 30:19Speaker 04

  Right.

• 30:19Fred Taylor?

  You know, you, you know, doing your thing, but what are they looking at?

• 30:22Speaker 04

  So, they're definitely looking at the symmetry. So from right to left, they wanna make sure, so like if you flex up one arm, does it look the same on the other side? Same with the legs?

• 30:33Fred Taylor?

  So-

• 30:33Speaker 04

  So they have you do like quarter turns so they can kinda see how balanced this person is? Is he huge up top and got skinny ass legs?

• 30:41Fred Taylor?

  So if you jacking off before the show, they gonna know your left arm.

• 30:45Channing Crowder?

  You can't be, Jack, he can't be this big.

• 30:47Ryan Clark?

  You ain't doing that, man.

• 30:48Fred Taylor?

  I'm just saying, like-

• 30:50Channing Crowder?

  You can't be, boy, you beat your dick. It's over for him.

• 30:54Fred Taylor?

  Chill out, man. I'm just saying, one might swell up.

• 30:56Channing Crowder?

  His dick down there looking up at him shaking. Please Phil, leave me alone.

• 31:01Fred Taylor?

  I'm sorry. My bad. I shouldn't even took it there because he was gonna eat it up. Pause, pause, pause, pause. That's a bad one too. Get into the money, Phil. That's a bad one too. Get into the money, man. My bad.

• 31:17Speaker 04

  So, you got...

• 31:19Channing Crowder?

  My forearm was that big?

• 31:22Channing Crowder?

  It's over for him. Tear his whole head off. That bitch ain't nothing but a shaft out there.

• 31:30Speaker 04

  I can't, I can't, man.

• 31:32Fred Taylor?

  Pivot, can we pivot forward? I'm sweating, dawg. Bro, I'm sweating.

• 31:38Speaker 04

  Whoa.

• 31:38Fred Taylor?

  Go ahead. Sponsorships, money.

• 31:42Speaker 04

  We're not gonna get, we're not gonna get there. We're not gonna, we're just gonna admit it. We're not gonna get there.

• 31:47Fred Taylor?

  Lusa.

• 31:48Channing Crowder?

  My bad, bro, my bad.

• 31:49Fred Taylor?

  Bring it back.

• 31:50Speaker 04

  So...

• 31:50Fred Taylor?

  How, how do you inspire, how could you inspire young guys to get into the sport? Talking about money, everything else?

• 31:56Speaker 04

  Well, every kid wants to be big and strong. No question about it.

• 32:00Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 32:03Speaker 04

  It, it allows them to, you know, obviously be better at their sport. Football, baseball, basketball, whatever. But not everybody's gonna be like you guys. They're gonna be undersized, a lot of them.

• 32:16Speaker 04

  And even guys that wrestle. You can only go so far in that as well. But with bodybuilding, you can have, you know, you could be a collegiate athlete or a former high school standout and get into bodybuilding right away. And depending on your image and likeness. Um, there's plenty of companies that need people like that.

• 32:34Speaker 04

  I found out more, um, because before, when I got into it, U-Turn Pro, I was Mr. USA in 2005. So like the minute U-Turn Pro, the sponsorships, you know, are there. But it was all print media back then. Now it's all, you know, social media. So it's a lot different. So you get a lot of people that you may follow, they're not even pro. So it's very tough for even myself to encourage some young person to say, "Hey, don't you wanna be the best in the world at this like I was?" They may say, "But I can make the same amount of money." Maybe Photoshop in the picture here and there just to get a good look with a sponsorship. Maybe I can buy some followers or whatever, just fake it a little bit.

• 33:15Speaker 04

  Look the part, get the angles right, have like real cameras, not just the iPhone. Make me look like a pro and then the money come in that way until they get found out, right? You won't see him at expos because they'll get exposed. But there's plenty of people that do that. There's plenty of people that are at their local gym that has done a show, got destroyed, but looked the part to where they could sell personal training as if they were a pro. So there are a lot of scams, but at the same time, I mean, as a consumer, you get what you pay for. As a sponsor, you get what you pay for. But for me, I don't discourage anyone that wants to get into bodybuilding. I think it, you know, builds a lot of self-esteem. I think it builds a lot of confidence.

• 33:59Speaker 04

  Obviously, you're going to be more in tune with what you put in your body. You're going to be able to help other people. Especially, I'm glad that we're having this conversation because, you know, I know your audience is very broad. But at the same time, I mean, African-American community.

• 34:14Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 34:15Speaker 04

  Come on, come on now. Blood pressure, diabetes, all these things, there's not being addressed properly. You got a guy like myself, Seven Time, tight with Schwarzenegger, I'm here for you, right? I'm all on social media, trying to answer questions because if I get sick, I know usually how to fix it. If I want to lose weight, I know how to fix it the right way. If I want to gain muscle, I know how to fix it. If I get injured, I know how to fix it. And we have all these resources available to us, no different than you guys. We just know where to grab it and how to maximize it. So if any of you guys were like, hey Phil, like I'm really trying to get this extra 1%, I'm like, I can show you.

• 34:56Channing Crowder?

  Show me. And but Phil. I need to know. But he the best of the best. I was going to ask him, I don't know if you're going to say anything for it, but I was going to ask you. You're not Photoshop in it. You didn't do Seven Time. The best in the world, the best physique in the world. Is it, is it financially beneficial? Like, are you good, good?

• 35:15Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. When you're the best in the world? I mean, put it like this, so like, I was the very first Mr. Olympia that had just one sponsor paying him seven figures.

• 35:30Fred Taylor?

  Seven?

• 35:31Speaker 04

  Like, just a protein sponsor paying that. So that was, that was legit.

• 35:35Fred Taylor?

  Wow.

• 35:36Speaker 04

  So at one point in time, so you gotta think like, an equipment company, so like, let's say you got, like, you know, you train on like Hammer Strength or Flex Leverage, stuff like that. They'll sponsor you. Maybe a gym will sponsor you, right? Like a big gym, like a Gold's Gym, World Gym, stuff like that. Uh, you got the supplement contract. You can get an apparel contract. You can start your own apparel company and still keep it exclusive to where you could still work with other brands, right? Um, energy drinks. So you could partition and say, okay, I'm doing this protein and creatine and stuff, but then if Monster or Red Bull wanted to do something, I could do that also.

• 36:09Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 36:10Speaker 04

  So you could literally have like, eight, nine, 10 sponsors paying you a little bit, some paying you a lot. So I did that, I mean, gosh, for, since 06. So, when I came out the gate, I was getting paid as an amateur, five grand a month just to be in Flex Magazine.

• 36:31Speaker 04

  And I was still working. I was working at Valley Total Fitness and I was bouncing over downtown Denver, a place called Jackson's. And after that, I got signed by Metrex. Started making like 20 grand a month. So I had those two, plus I was doing stuff for like Max Muscle. So anytime I wore, anytime I wore like one of the Max Muscle t-shirts, I was getting broke off, major bread. Each page in each magazine, I was getting paid. And I was getting paid by Flex Magazine Muscle and Fitness. And that was a five-figure deal as well.

• 36:58Fred Taylor?

  Was this before you became Mr. Olympia?

• 37:00Speaker 04

  I became Mr. Olympia. I had all these deals lined up and the way that we would make money, especially then, and we'll say pre-COVID, appearances.

• 37:11Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior like beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 37:40Speaker 04

  Each weekend I do, whether it be a gym appearance, or a show. So you put on a bodybuilding show, you hire me, I come guest pose, because you have like all the amateurs, they want a pro. It wasn't internet, so they wanted to see what a real pro looked like. I could be fat and out of shape and still look better than the amateur, right? So I would get paid for an exhibition. You're walking out of a weekend selling hats, t-shirts, all this other stuff. You're walking out like a minimum of 20 grand.

• 38:08Fred Taylor?

  That's nice. You have an agent for that?

• 38:10Speaker 04

  I did it all myself.

• 38:11Fred Taylor?

  Oh, wow.

• 38:12Ryan Clark?

  And you say you trained yourself?

• 38:14Speaker 04

  Yep, so I trained myself, did all that stuff. You know, I worked with a nutritionist later, after I turned pro. But, early on, I mean, I was doing all these things myself. I ended up having my own clothing brand, Gift Athletics. I was doing the hats, tank tops, all that stuff, procuring all the, you know, all the necessities for that. Did I make mistakes early on? Hell, yeah, but then you learned real quick.

• 38:35Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, listening to you though, and you mentioned all of these ways to make money, that's also a lot of hustling. Right? You know, you're doing appearances, you're doing signings, you're doing photo shoots. Was it hard to balance all of those things and continue to work the way you had to be the best in the world? Because it feels like, once you become the best in the world, and now you definitely want to maximize your opportunity to make money, right? Because you know you can't do it forever, right? Half the time catches us all.

• 39:05Speaker 04

  Right.

• 39:06Ryan Clark?

  Was it hard to say, okay, I'm gonna go get all the money I can, do everything I can to make sure I'm taking advantage of this, but also I want to be Mr. Olympia next year? Was it difficult to do all of those things at one time?

• 39:17Speaker 04

  It was, but by the time I won it, I already had a pretty good groove to where I could minimize the appearance schedule, and then up my rate.

• 39:28Ryan Clark?

  Kind of smile, Channing?

• 39:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:29Ryan Clark?

  My man said, "Up my re-"

• 39:30Fred Taylor?

  Created the demand there.

• 39:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, he created the demand. Because then you realize, like, okay, well, they want to see the best in the world, like, then pay for it.

• 39:37Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 39:38Speaker 04

  And, you know, was I looked at as shrewd? Absolutely. But most business people that are getting paid are looked at that way. But we all know, they don't give a shit about you when you're done. So you might as well get it while the iron's hot.

• 39:52Fred Taylor?

  You don't seem like the type of guy that would be a villain in your sport. I've heard, or I hear things that you've been portrayed as such.

• 40:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:01Fred Taylor?

  Why?

• 40:03Speaker 04

  Because I won.

• 40:06Speaker 04

  How many of y'all, well, you guys know it in football and stuff, I mean, people hate on champions all the time. They hate on Tom Brady's ass nonstop. Like, they hate on champions.

• 40:17Speaker 04

  I was villainized in a documentary called Generation Iron, no question about it. But it was a docudrama, and a lot of people didn't realize it was.

• 40:25Speaker 04

  I took on the role of being misunderstood, and I was okay with it. But then I used the thing of social media and fired back. So you would, I was KD. Clap backing on fools.

• 40:35Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 40:35Speaker 04

  And it, but I wasn't on a burner, though. It was me. And I would say some shit that definitely wasn't cool, but at the same time, you brought a certain energy. I'm thinking, but then at the same time, I'm thinking, but don't all athletes have that type of energy? Like, we want to give it back to somebody every now and again? Doesn't the fan want that experience? That you, you wanted the smoke, but I gave it to you, now you don't like it? So then I got villainized for that. But I stood in my truth, though. Like, you're not going to tell me something that just makes no damn sense. And yeah, you don't want to argue too much. But it was more just planting my flag and saying, "You're trying to take this?

• 41:15Speaker 04

  Oh, you're friends with the next guy? Because these are fans of the next guy."

• 41:19Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 41:19Speaker 04

  So I would just talk trash back. And I took upon that role. I, I called myself the hero villain, and later on, I called it, I went from being the gift. Hero villain and then the dream killer. And I was like, you're trying to crush my dreams. I like that. You're trying to crush my dreams. I'm gonna crush yours and I'm gonna make it very personal. And face, let's face it, every athlete that has won multiple times has had that in their back pocket, like Jordan for instance, like we all know that like you talk shit to Jordan. You do it one too many times. What did he do? He killed you. Killed you. Yeah. Destroyed you. And I love that, knowing that I could stand on stage next to the best bodies in the world.

• 42:04Speaker 04

  And you know, it's funny, I'm actually fans of these guys. Cause I appreciate their body of work. But standing next to a person and then they see you and you don't feel any energy whatsoever. Right. You can actually, and I'm sure you guys felt that on the field with certain people. Like you could, you'd be like, man, this guy ain't got no energy, man. I like sucked the life out of this dude. You can do that on a bodybuilding stage. So imagine like you're in your most vulnerable state. Depleted, dehydrated. Drawl. You ain't got no clothes on and you're supposed to smile and hit these poses. And here you got my ass up there like, you sure you? So you want this? You should, you shouldn't even came, bro. You wanna go hit the buffet. Yeah.

• 42:48Speaker 04

  Cause you know it's in Vegas, I'm like, just go hit the buffet, man. It's not gonna, don't worry about it. I get your ticket at the after party, it's all good, don't worry about it. You pop bottles with the champs. Wow. And I was looked at. Who pop bottles with the champs? I was looked at differently because of that, but you know, it's funny with fans, man. Like the minute you step away for a little bit, they come back and they're like, man, we missed that. Right. Because a lot of the guys today, they're so worried about like what other people think. Right. That it actually makes them a mute. And all fans want is a voice. They wanna know what's going on in here. And I, I was, in my humble opinion, I felt like I was a pioneer for that. That did I handle it the greatest? No one ever does. Cause you're the first to do it. No one had a rule book of saying, Phil, like this is social media.

• 43:33Speaker 04

  You're supposed to post this way and act this way. It's like, hell no, I'm just gonna post and if you like it, great. If you don't. I might tell you to go piss off and that be that. But I made sure, no matter what I did, I always stayed true to who I was. I always made sure that the fans were entertained. I made sure that the fans got a piece of me. And I never left those fans hanging when they wanted a picture autograph, ever. And if I had to leave, I would still look like, we would do a meet and greet the day before the show. I would stand on a chair and I'd, like I would stand on this table and tell everybody, thank you for coming. I have to go, but I give them a reason. Because I still remember in 2004, I was at a show where Ronnie Coleman had guest posed that.

• 44:18Speaker 04

  I waited four and a half hours for that autograph and I bought four of them. That let me realize what a real professional was. Like, he, he did not leave until everybody was seen. And even being on tour with him, he was the same. So I had really good guys to look up to regarding the professionalism of the sport.

• 44:37Fred Taylor?

  You, excuse me if I'm wrong, but you say you retired with Arnold Schwarzenegger?

• 44:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:43Fred Taylor?

  Is that the record?

• 44:44Speaker 04

  No, Ronnie and Lee Haney have eight.

• 44:47Fred Taylor?

  Okay, so what's next for you?

• 44:49Speaker 04

  Ah, it's a good question. So currently, working with various brands, whether it be in sports nutrition, apparel, but more of public speaking, because I feel like my story needs to be told, but also just developing more encouragement for the youth. And reminding even people in business, who the hell they are. Why do you do what you do? And understand when you're going for higher levels of excellence, you are going to be met with opposing energy that is going to make you question, why did you do this in the first place? But for me, it's all about showing people that you can not only win,

• 45:32Speaker 04

  but you can keep going and never look back. But when it's your time to share it. You're damn right, you better do it. So that's, that's really my, my pivot. Um, I also have a new documentary dropping later this year called Breaking Olympia is actually being, um, it was co-produced by Danny Garcia and Dwayne Johnson, so it's gonna be pretty awesome.

• 45:54Ryan Clark?

  Pretty dope, yeah. You know, you, you mentioned your, your, your story being told and, and having an opportunity, you know, you talk about the public speaking, but also, uh, the opportunity to, you know, do documentaries and have these films kind of put out so people can hear from you, whether it's the villain, the hero villain, the dream killer, whatever it is, but you know, so many, you, you mentioned Michael Jordan. Uh, Tom Brady just recently said he knows he's not as good of a father to his kids as his dad was to him. And sometimes when you're, when you're reaching for greatness and you're continuing to push towards it, other things go to the wayside.

• 46:30Speaker 04

  Right.

• 46:31Ryan Clark?

  Uh, you were, um, seven-time Mr. Olympia, but, uh, I believe you were married?

• 46:36Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 46:36Ryan Clark?

  At one point?

• 46:37Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 46:37Ryan Clark?

  Um, also during that time, your, your father passed away.

• 46:42Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 46:43Ryan Clark?

  How do, how were you able to deal with those things and still be the best in the world?

• 46:50Speaker 04

  Um, with the divorce, I mean, that was definitely my fault. Um, probably shouldn't have got married, to be quite honest. Um, she was older than I was, much older, uh, seven years older. But, you know, we were in love and, you know, I just thought this was the right thing to do. I would have probably been better off keeping her as a best friend.

• 47:15Speaker 04

  We are now just after about eight years of separation, able to really talk on the phone, which I'm very happy about. Number one with that, when that came out,

• 47:29Speaker 04

  I was a rolling stone, so I wasn't, you know, as faithful as I am now.

• 47:36Speaker 04

  I made sure one thing, don't be Tiger Woods. And people say, well, what's that mean? Well, you saw what happened to him. It wasn't about the numerous people, it was about how he handled it. And in my opinion, I felt like I didn't owe everybody an apology. Because you're not in my house. And you don't need to be in my house. This is my house. This is my sacred space.

• 47:57Speaker 04

  And I felt like allowing everybody in, in something that intimate, would definitely have an effect on my game. Which, in my opinion, it did on his. People could disagree. I feel like my, body and spirit have to be at peace when you're trying to do something that epic of what he did. Injuries came, this and that. That's just my opinion. I could be wrong. For myself, I was like, I could see myself going in downward spiral because this could turn into that.

• 48:25Speaker 04

  What's the best thing to do during a divorce? Just f***ing win.

• 48:29Speaker 04

  Just win. Double down on your efforts, man. At least I'm doing that right. This, I still gotta deal with.

• 48:36Ryan Clark?

  Was it hard to deal with for you during that time? Because you said somebody being your best friend, and then going through what you were going through with your ex-wife. Was it difficult to deal with and still stay focused? Like you said, just f***ing win?

• 48:51Speaker 04

  What other choice?

• 48:54Speaker 04

  Beat myself up? And say I'm no good? You know, did I get counseling? Hell yeah, I did. I did it on my own. Because I was trying to figure out some answers. Like, why am I the way I am? And then I realized, like, you really gotta double down on your efforts with this bodybuilding stuff because you could go into depression again and then lose it all. And you can't do that because even she don't want you to do that. And then definitely within a divorce degree, you definitely don't want to do that. You still got some money you gotta pay. So, let me go ahead and do my job. And there was pressure with that as well. No question about it. I was dealing with that and I just lost my father. I still hadn't unpacked that part. But, you know how it is, guys?

• 49:38Speaker 04

  Like, I'm not the first person to ever go through a divorce. I'm not the first person to lose a parent. What happens when those things happen? There's always a story of triumph. You know, my dad didn't get killed like Michael Jordan's dad did, so he still put up numbers. He still won. Why can't I do that? So, don't, for myself, I was like, don't be a victim, like, don't do that. Whether it be my father passing away, what better way to honor him than to win? He gone, like, he up there, like, he, he want me to, you know?

• 50:08Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 50:09Speaker 04

  I always looked at, how can I make that mess into a greater message later on? Here I am.

• 50:13Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 50:14Speaker 04

  Here I am. You know, we all went through it. That's what it came down to, is just, did it hurt? Did it suck? Absolutely, man, like, I disappointed somebody.

• 50:26Speaker 04

  I upset her, and I helped raise her son. How was he gonna look at me too, right? And I felt bad about that. I felt shame from the community, I felt that. Now, was that them saying it? No, that's just what I put in my mind. Why? Because I hold myself at a higher standard, and I didn't meet it. And, um, you know, the word of redemption comes into, into your consciousness. Like, how do I redeem myself from this? And, you know, you take it up with God, you do that. And then, when you get in a better relationship, you know, you, you, you treat that much better. There's been no, no problems with her, um, and she would kick the shit out of me if I did.

• 51:09Speaker 04

  Which is, which is great, but, you know, I've been, I've been in a good spot since.

• 51:13Channing Crowder?

  I wanted to ask you, man, I just thought about something because you, you, you've gone through so much. You had the first, we were talking about the suicidal stuff after basketball. And you were talking about the divorce, and like, the, the process of it. Bodybuilders die young.

• 51:31Channing Crowder?

  I, I want you to explain to me why they die young? And then, like, what?

• 51:36Speaker 04

  That was tough.

• 51:36Channing Crowder?

  You know what I'm saying, but like?

• 51:37Speaker 04

  That was tough, man.

• 51:38Channing Crowder?

  You're putting, you're putting your life on the line

• 51:41Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 51:42Channing Crowder?

  to have these big ass arms and these motherf- forms that could, that could tear, tear a head off a dick. Like, do you understand?

• 51:50Speaker 04

  How do I stay serious with this guy?

• 51:53Channing Crowder?

  Chan ain't going Chan. I'm gonna Chan, but no, but like, like, like, it, it's a thing, because, I don't know if it's, you explain to me, is it that you put so much stuff in your body?

• 52:02Speaker 04

  I'm gonna explain it.

• 52:03Channing Crowder?

  Is your heart, is, is, do y'all?

• 52:04Speaker 04

  I'm gonna explain it.

• 52:05Channing Crowder?

  Put so much shit on your heart? Why do bodybuilders die so young?

• 52:07Speaker 04

  I think, the pandemic didn't help. Tons of depression with, with people not being able to even go to the damn gym.

• 52:16Speaker 04

  Bodybuilders also having their schedule totally screwed up. So what I mean by that is for the Olympia, I wouldn't know one time a year, I gotta do this. I gotta run this race one time. But to qualify for it, let's say it's in March, but then COVID happened and it gets pushed to April, to May, to June. Now you're dieting all that time? That's not healthy. And everything that goes along with it, we're F1. So we ain't like a Honda Civic, if that makes any sense.

• 52:45Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 52:45Speaker 04

  That's as light as I could put it. We are definitely putting our bodies through a lot of stress, right? What I believe was the problem also is not getting health checked. Not getting their blood work done repetitively. Like literally tomorrow morning, I'd get my blood work done. My girl and I were getting it done tomorrow morning.

• 53:09Speaker 04

  I get my blood work done, even as I was competing, every three to four months. I wanna know even multiple times during prep, what these numbers mean, because therefore I can adjust certain things. I know what my cholesterol is doing. I know what my sodium, I know what everything is doing. I know my hematocrit, my hemoglobin, my, you know, all these, my AST, ALT levels. I know what my, you know, heart, kidney, lung, everything. How many guys really go to the doctor to go get a physical every year? Barely. How many of you guys get blood work done every three, four months?

• 53:40Fred Taylor?

  I don't.

• 53:40Speaker 04

  You don't. So if you're putting that much stress, food, drugs, everything, and you're not getting checked, you do realize you could be doing some damage.

• 53:53Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 53:54Speaker 04

  So I think it is negligence. I think it is, um, the same reason, like I said, how many guys go out and get, women go get their annual, like, you know, like clockwork. How many guys do that?

• 54:04Fred Taylor?

  Since we're there, because you're, you're 100% correct.

• 54:08Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 54:08Fred Taylor?

  Yeah. You know, our communities, you know, us definitely.

• 54:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 54:12Fred Taylor?

  We're at higher risk. We need to know that, right? So we need to make sure we take away the machismo and be able to, you know, set aside this, this pride to go get ourselves checked.

• 54:21Speaker 04

  They're afraid of the unknown.

• 54:23Fred Taylor?

  A 100%. I don't wanna get him started, but I do wanna know, and this is it from me.

• 54:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 54:29Fred Taylor?

  There's a myth about steroids.

• 54:32Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 54:33Fred Taylor?

  And bodybuilders and testosterone treatments.

• 54:35Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 54:37Fred Taylor?

  Put this to rest for me, please.

• 54:38Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 54:40Fred Taylor?

  Damn, I wanna ask this, but I got, does it shrivel up your man? Does it?

• 54:45Speaker 04

  But, but, but, is everybody on steroids?

• 54:49Fred Taylor?

  I don't know, but that's what you hear, right?

• 54:51Speaker 04

  Right, so.

• 54:52Fred Taylor?

  The women wanna know too, I'm asking for the women, cuz I don't care.

• 54:55Speaker 04

  So, here's the deal with that, you're so damn dehydrated, things do happen.

• 54:59Fred Taylor?

  Um, that's it, stop right there, that's good.

• 55:01Speaker 04

  Oh, I wanna hear, I wanna hear, I wanna hear, Phil. But here's the thing, uh, two, two nights after, you, you know.

• 55:10Fred Taylor?

  We're back, right?

• 55:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:12Fred Taylor?

  We're, we're good.

• 55:13Speaker 04

  Tearing the shit out, I mean, it's just the way it is, like.

• 55:15Fred Taylor?

  We're, we're good.

• 55:15Speaker 04

  So, it's just funny when like, you know, you go to like, for me, I love comedy, my ass would sit up front, and you know they gonna make fun of it. Oh, you guys are in it, and I'm like, first of all, 32 inch thighs, don't matter how big your shit is, when you got big ass quads, it's gonna, it's gonna look different.

• 55:34Fred Taylor?

  I'm colluding for sure.

• 55:35Speaker 04

  Why are you so concerned with it is my question?

• 55:37Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 55:38Speaker 04

  And that's, that has always been my biggest thing, cuz I didn't grow up as a bodybuilder, you know what I'm saying? So, I'm like, why are y'all so concerned with someone's dick? Like, I don't ever understand that. Like, y'all say pause, like, why is that? Because everything else is so well-built and you're so upset about that shit that you just wanna poke fun at another? But he got a girl, and she ain't leaving, and they got kids, so you know you've been hitting it more than once, she like it, why don't you ask her?

• 56:05Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 56:06Speaker 04

  So, you ain't asking her the right questions. Screw what I say, but as far as everything else, I mean, yeah, you know, with, with the sport of bodybuilding, you mentioned Shawn Roden, that was a guy that dethroned me in 2018. And, you know, I remember losing that, and I was happy for him, obviously I was upset, and I remember hugging him and then telling him, isn't it amazing that we get to make money for our families doing this sport? How cool is that?

• 56:37Speaker 04

  And obviously for him, you know, he had some legal issues, you know, he had all that, we put that to bed, but.

• 56:43Speaker 04

  For him not to be here, definitely hurts for all of the men and women who we have lost, even just recently Cedric Millen we lost.

• 56:54Speaker 04

  You know, I've traveled with these guys around the world for years. You get to meet them, you get to meet their families, you know, it's just, it's a brotherhood. And one of the reasons why I made sure that even for me, I got with, I got with, you know, a real dedicated HRT company because I'm like, I gotta make sure I get my blood work done properly. I gotta make sure I'm with the right doctors because I ain't gonna be like that. I'm gonna make sure I get heart scanned, I'm getting everything done. So then I can be an advocate for other athletes, you know, not just in bodybuilding. Because that's the funny thing, right? Like you guys got NFL dudes that are definitely overweight and then life expectancy of a lineman is what? Fifty-four, fifty-six years old?

• 57:35Speaker 04

  They should probably be getting with even guys like myself in my field of saying like, hey, I get it. You guys were big too, you downsized, how did you do it? And how'd you do it healthy? Who did you talk to? Yeah, I'm fifty years old, I wanna get on some, you know, testosterone therapy because I wanna, you know, still chase my young wife around or whatever, I still wanna have a good life. You know, at the end of the day, that's what I'm here to do. I'm of service to the world, I'm of service to other athletes like yourself. You guys get my line, you can hit me up, whatever. Because at the end of the day, we all just wanna look good, feel great, have the confidence to do it the next day.

• 58:13Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 58:14Speaker 04

  You know, that's really it.

• 58:15Channing Crowder?

  And man, I got one because this is what I heard. And you know I, you know I ask the funny questions. I heard that y'all big motherfucker can't wipe y'all ass the normal way.

• 58:26Speaker 04

  How is that?

• 58:27Channing Crowder?

  They said that y'all wipe from back to front, like y'all wipe y'all nuts towards y'all balls.

• 58:32Speaker 04

  You know what's funny? I heard the same shit when I got into it.

• 58:34Channing Crowder?

  That you wipe your nuts forward.

• 58:36Speaker 04

  Laughing my ass off because I'm like, how big does a person have to be? I was never that big, so I can only speak for myself.

• 58:41Channing Crowder?

  So you still wipe from front?

• 58:43Speaker 04

  Who you talking about, bro?

• 58:46Speaker 04

  No different than, like, what are you talking about?

• 58:49Channing Crowder?

  I just, I ain't know if that lat, that lat got in the way, so I heard that you gotta go from back to front.

• 58:55Speaker 04

  Now, now.

• 58:58Channing Crowder?

  Got to wash every time you take a shit?

• 59:01Speaker 04

  Not me. I'm good. Everybody else, I can't speak for everybody else, but not me. But that would be like saying, like, does a lineman have a problem?

• 59:09Ryan Clark?

  I tell you what, I'm gonna say what they can't do. Linemen can't use the bathroom.

• 59:12Speaker 04

  They big dudes too. Can they do it?

• 59:15Channing Crowder?

  Okay, man, I appreciate it.

• 59:18Ryan Clark?

  I'm gonna say this, man, and with that, bro, it is over. We appreciate you so much. We were talking about it before we got to sit down with you. This is something that I don't think we understand greatly. And we kind of wanted it to be an introduction to our world and to the people that follow us and to what bodybuilding is, who bodybuilders can be, and who you were. To have a representation like you in that world that looks like us, but it's actually, and get an opportunity to sit and talk to you, you care about us. You know, a lot of times you can disassociate yourself from a group of people or a community of people when they aren't necessarily the people that follow the sport.

• 1:00:00Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:00:01Ryan Clark?

  Right, and so I appreciate the fact that, you know, you keep that, you keep that in your mind and you're mindful of what you can still mean to the community and the things that you can do, man. This was awesome. And I guess I'll end by saying this, man, I'm damn glad no cars hit you.

• 1:00:15Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:16Speaker 04

  Me too.

• 1:00:17Fred Taylor?

  I'm with RC.

• 1:00:17Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, man.

• 1:00:18Speaker 04

  I appreciate it.

• 1:00:18Ryan Clark?

  So we appreciate you, bro.

• 1:00:19Speaker 04

  Yes, sir.

• 1:00:19Ryan Clark?

  Yes, sir.

• 1:00:44Speaker 05

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 1:00:55Speaker 06

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