#323 – Will Sasso: Comedy, MADtv, AI, Friendship, Madness, and Pro Wrestling

Will Sasso is a comedian, actor, and co-host of the Dudesy podcast. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: – Eight Sleep: https://www.eightsleep.com/lex to get special savings – Athletic Greens: https://athleticgreens.com/lex to get 1 month of fish oil – BetterHelp: https://betterhelp.com/lex to get 10% off – Onnit: https://lexfridman.com/onnit to get up to 10% off – Indeed: https://indeed.com/lex to get $75 credit EPISODE LINKS: Will’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/willsasso Will’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/WillSasso Dudsey’s YouTube: https://youtube.com/Dudesy Dudsey’s Website: https://dudesypod.com Dudsey’s Patreon: https://patreon.com/dudesy PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ YouTube Full Episodes: https://youtube.com/lexfridman YouTube Clips: https://youtube.com/lexclips SUPPORT & CONNECT: – Check out the sponsors above, it’s the best way to support this podcast – Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman – Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman – Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman – LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman – Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman – Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman OUTLINE: Here’s the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time. (00:00) – Introduction (07:16) – Video games (13:22) – Bobby Lee (15:32) – Stand-up comedy (23:03) – Robin Williams (24:25) – Loneliness and depression (32:46) – John Candy (39:35) – Friendship (45:23) – Ten Minute Podcast (50:22) – Dudesy podcast (58:41) – Acting (1:10:00) – Impressions (1:15:28) – Artificial intelligence (1:46:55) – Anxiety (1:56:49) – Kindness (2:00:45) – Bad days (2:04:39) – Pro wrestling (2:08:15) – Advice for young people (2:22:20) – Meaning of life

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lex Fridman?

  The following is a conversation with Will Sasso, a comedian, actor, podcaster, and someone I've been a fan of for many years, since Mad TV in the late 90s, to recently with the 10 Minute Podcast, and now the new podcast called Dudezy.

• 0:20Lex Fridman?

  And now, a quick few second mention of each sponsor. Check them out in the description. It's the best way to support this podcast. We've got Eight Sleep for naps, Athletic Greens for multivitamins, BetterHelp for mental health, Onnit for supplements, and indeed for hiring. Choose wisely, my friends. And now, onto the full ad reads. As always, no ads in the middle. I find those ultra, super annoying. And since I get to decide how to do things with this particular podcast, I don't like to do annoying things. But I still try to say interesting things, sometimes only half related to the sponsors. So maybe you would like to listen, but if you skip, please still check out the sponsors.

• 1:04Lex Fridman?

  I enjoy their stuff. Maybe you will too.

• 1:08Lex Fridman?

  This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep, and it's Pod 3 mattress. So I just took a nap. I feel incredible. I passed out for 20 minutes. All on my Eight Sleep bed, both the mattress and the mattress cover is in Eight Sleep. The surface of the mattress was cold to a perfect temperature with a warm blanket. I turned off like an old Pentium PC in a matter of seconds. I turned back on like an old Pentium PC with a vroom sound.

• 1:45Lex Fridman?

  Actually, it took a really long time for those things to boot, but it was always excitement, anticipation. Back in my day, we used to walk both ways uphill to get an image from the internet. Anyway, you can get the Pod 3 cover. You don't have to use their mattress. You can put the cover on your own mattress. It's all awesome. Whatever you do, it's awesome. I guarantee it. Check it out and get special savings when you go to eightsleep.com/lex.

• 2:12Lex Fridman?

  This show is also brought to you by Athletic Greens and its AG1 Drink, which is an all-in-one daily drink to support better health and peak performance. I drink it twice a day. Sometimes I forget the travel packs when I'm traveling and I miss it. I look out the window and I wonder, what is this all for? Why are we here? In fact, I do that with Athletic Greens too, but there's a little more zest to it with Athletic Greens. What am I even talking in these ads? I wonder if anyone's actually listening. Like, I can literally say anything. I wonder if there's like just two people too drunk to skip ads.

• 2:56Lex Fridman?

  They're just listening to this right now. Well, I'm with you, brothers and sisters. What was I talking about? I don't know, but you should check out Athletic Greens and you'll get one month's supply of fish oil when you sign up at athleticgreens.com/lex. And given this ad read, they will very quickly cancel their support, I'm very sure. No, they love me, I love them. No matter what, whether they're sponsored or not, I will always love Athletic Greens. This episode is also brought to you by BetterHelp, spelled H-E-L-P, help. I often go in my mind to a place where I'm just sitting alone on a desert island.

• 3:36Lex Fridman?

  I imagine talking to that volleyball, Wilson, and just the peace of being away from humanity for a time, so you can be alone with your thoughts. I imagine that. And I also imagine writing "help" in the sand when I'm too sick of my own thoughts. Speaking of being too sick of your own thoughts, that's just a funny thing to say. Of course, your thoughts, dark or beautiful, low or high, are your lifelong companions and you should bring them to the surface and you should play with them, you should dance with them. And talk therapy is one way to do that, I think. Podcasting is a kind of talk therapy.

• 4:20Lex Fridman?

  That's a way to do that. So you should really try out BetterHelp, which is a way to do online talk therapy. You can check them out at betterhelp.com/lex and save on your first month. This episode is also brought to you by Onnit, a nutrition supplement and fitness company. They make AlphaBrain, a nootropic that helps support memory, mental speed, and focus. Like I said, I just took a nap. That's component number one of UltraFocus. Component number two for me is caffeine. Then, of course, there is the Zen-like, maybe people think of it as meditation,

• 5:04Lex Fridman?

  ability to block out all the other distractions. But even then, sometimes that's not enough if you really want to accomplish something difficult, mentally speaking. And so for that, I will take an AlphaBrain every once in a while to help me be the extra super boost for that deep work session, by which I mean, sitting there, staring at a thing, thinking about it, and not allowing your mind to deviate from the focus on that thing. Anyway, you can get a special discount on AlphaBrain at lexfridman.com/onnit. This show is also brought to you by Indeed, a hiring website.

• 5:47Lex Fridman?

  I've used them many times, many, many times in the past, for the hiring efforts I've done, for the teams I've led, teams I've been a part of. I'm doing quite a bit of hiring now for the podcast, creative kind of efforts. A lot of us spend a lot of our day working on a thing. Hopefully, it's a thing that you really enjoy doing. When it's a thing you enjoy doing, there's, to me at least, nothing more rewarding than doing it with people you care about, people that inspire you, people that challenge you, people that teach you stuff. So, a great team is a beautiful thing. So I really, really care about good hiring tools, services, websites, and Indeed is great at that. Anyway, and I'm also hiring quite a bit

• 6:31Lex Fridman?

  for a lot of things I'm doing now. I'm a little bit behind schedule on that, but I will get to all the resumes quickly. And I'm also using Indeed as part of this effort. They have a special offer, only available for a limited time. Check it out at indeed.com/lex.

• 6:52Lex Fridman?

  This is the Lex Fridman Podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here's Will Sasso.

• 7:16Lex Fridman?

  So let's call it the elephant in the room. You wore a black suit in a recent episode of Dootzy.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:26Lex Fridman?

  You wore a black suit again today. Shakespeare, then Mark Twain said clothes make the man. What kind of man does a suit make you?

• 7:35Speaker 01

  Well, me in particular, it makes me a fellow who did not get this dry cleaned in between because that episode of the show, as we sit here now, was around a week ago. So that's, that's the kind of man it makes me.

• 7:48Lex Fridman?

  Well, the, the nice thing is you're wearing pants, I think.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Yes, I am wearing pants.

• 7:52Lex Fridman?

  I don't think you were wearing pants in the episode.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  That's correct. I prefer to wear shorts, but this was a special occasion, so I'm wearing pants. And I thought it fitting, obviously, to just wear, you know, the black tie. And clothes do make them in. And I'm a, I would not consider myself to be a man of leisure, but I do enjoy shorts. Yeah. Because I, my legs get hot. So that's what kind of man the shorts make me.

• 8:15Lex Fridman?

  How often do you wear a suit?

• 8:16Speaker 01

  I fucking hate wearing suits.

• 8:18Lex Fridman?

  So what is this, a statement of, is it ironic? Or is it, are you honoring the gods of this particular podcast?

• 8:24Speaker 01

  I'm honoring the gods of this particular podcast would be a good way to put it. Yes. No, this is, this is in reverence of and in dedication to you and our newfound friendship here.

• 8:34Lex Fridman?

  Yes.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Which we are making on the podcast. You and I just met.

• 8:40Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Everything that we're saying here is the, are the first things that we're saying to each other. So I'm meeting you on common ground. Dress like.

• 8:46Lex Fridman?

  Well, I've been actually a one way friend of yours for many, many years. It's Mad TV.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 8:51Lex Fridman?

  Um, when did you start on Matty? So that was my, I mean, nineties.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  Ninety seven, yeah.

• 8:55Lex Fridman?

  Ninety seven. So I was a huge fan of yours and the cast was incredible. It was one of the funniest shows ever created. Your whole journey watching through that was, was incredible from Mad TV to Three Stooges to the podcasts. The, the ten minute pod and then the new podcast is incredible.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Um, cheers.

• 9:13Lex Fridman?

  My favorite role that you played was the mountain in the game of Thrones. What was it like working with dragons?

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Well, the dragons are usually tennis balls on the end of C stands. But, uh, sometimes they, they hang out. Um, I am.

• 9:30Lex Fridman?

  C stand.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  It's like, you know, it's like a little like the thing you got the camera on here.

• 9:34Lex Fridman?

  Oh, this is like film lingo.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I understand. I'm trying to impress you with my film lingo. You know what a banana is?

• 9:40Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  When you walk like this.

• 9:41Lex Fridman?

  Oh.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  Do it a banana.

• 9:43Lex Fridman?

  I take it back. I did not know what a banana was.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. See, it means something. Yeah. Cause it's just a food.

• 9:48Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  Normally, uh.

• 9:50Lex Fridman?

  Fancy Hollywood folk with the lingo.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  And I'm, uh, my name is Bjorn Hapthor Bjornson and I am seven foot four. And, uh, yeah, so dragons don't, dragons don't scare me, even though they've been extinct for a while. We use scientists, right? Does that check out?

• 10:07Lex Fridman?

  Yeah, I actually, I'm really into video games. I don't know if you play video games. There's a, there's a Skyrim. Uh, video game that's part of the other scroll series. And for the longest time, there's a legend that there's dragons. I think it started in Dagofall. And so I always, I grew up playing those video games and dreaming of one day meeting. A dragon in a virtual world and eventually you did in, in Skyrim. So it's. Dragons represent, I don't know exactly what they represent, but they represent maybe this kind of mythical creature that is bigger. That anything humans can possibly comprehend, maybe. Cause they're so, they're so, they show up so often in myth from the, from the religious stories, you know, of the snake and so on, the serpent and.

• 10:52Lex Fridman?

  I don't know what that is. Well, this breathing fire, that's kind of weird.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  It's interesting when I think about dragons, because now that you bring it up, these are people that probably wouldn't have access to the fact that there used to be dinosaurs.

• 11:02Lex Fridman?

  Right.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  Maybe they did. If they didn't, they're drawing things that look like, you know, a dinosaur cousin, but cool, that can breathe fire and has wacky wings and a spiked tail.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, where the heck did they come up with that? Cause they're clearly, of course, represented in mythology, all the way back to, uh, no, not cave drawings. Well, the Egyptians probably knew what the, and they could time travel. So they would have gone back to the caves.

• 11:28Lex Fridman?

  Well, the aliens that placed living organisms on earth could time travel and they could plant legends into the, into the collective intelligence of the human species.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. And perhaps they were thinking of us to do something smart with it and we didn't, we just came up with Skyrim.

• 11:45Lex Fridman?

  No.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  We're just, what's that?

• 11:46Lex Fridman?

  Sorry, that was very offensive.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend you with your video game. I'm more of a Burger, Burger Time, uh, Donkey Kong dude.

• 11:55Lex Fridman?

  Oh, what is that? That's an original?

• 11:58Speaker 01

  Burger Time was an arcade game that, uh, later showed up on the Intellivision.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  It was in television. I believe it was made by Texas Instruments, horrible first generation, uh, video game console and Burger Time, you just, it's like Super Mario. You've just got to stay away from the, the eggs and the pickles and stuff. And you just go, and you, the bun falls and then you go down to the, and the cheese and then the meat. I'm not going to say it's as complicated as Skyrim, but, uh, took me a while to finish it when I was seven.

• 12:30Lex Fridman?

  Did you play video games? Was that a part of your life or part of the source of happiness for you at all?

• 12:35Speaker 01

  It was, it was. I played video games up until around, uh, I think in 2010, I got the red ring of death on my Xbox 360.

• 12:44Lex Fridman?

  That was it?

• 12:45Speaker 01

  That was it. I never, or whatever the Xbox was then.

• 12:48Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  I had, I was playing, uh, I had finished, uh, the, the Grand Theft Auto that was out and had finished the Red Dead Redemption. So I was doing that thing where you just drive around, uh, you know, the streets of New York or just ride around on your horse, shooting people and, uh, you know, throwing grenades into, into groups of people in, uh, Grand Theft.

• 13:07Lex Fridman?

  And you, you're describing the same thing that happened a decade later. Cause it's now Red Dead Redemption two, and there's still not a new Grand Theft Auto. So.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, there, there isn't, right?

• 13:18Lex Fridman?

  Yeah, they're working on it. They're always flirting with that idea. You know who else plays Skyrim? Another person, the two people I'm a huge fan of from that time on Mad TV is Bobby Lee.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  He plays Skyrim?

• 13:28Lex Fridman?

  He's a huge fan of Skyrim.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  Plays every.

• 13:30Lex Fridman?

  So what Bobby Lee loves to do is to grind, do the boring task over and over, gather mushroom. Like in Skyrim, you can fight dragons, you can fight all kinds of things, but you can also gather mushrooms and different ingredients and make potions and all that kind of. He loves the ingredients. He's the, you know, in the hunter gatherer world, he's the gatherer.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  He's the gatherer. Yeah. I've heard him described that way and, and he likes to describe himself that way. Uh, I worked with Bobby not too long ago. He came and did a couple of days on this thing we were shooting and, uh, I was looking forward to catching up with my old pal. And if you know anything about Bobby Lee, you'd probably be able to predict that he spent that entire time playing farming on his iPad.

• 14:12Lex Fridman?

  Well, humans are, are a source of anxiety and trouble. So sometimes it's good to escape human interaction through video games.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 14:19Lex Fridman?

  I'm with him on that. He is, he's one of the funniest people ever. What, what, what do you think is, uh, what do you think makes him funny? It's just all the times you've worked with him, the, the non-standard, non-secular way of his being.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Bobby Lee is one of the most raw people, raw performers who lets it all hang out to the degree that he will even get naked in front of his audience, which is usually a metaphor for someone doing stand-up. I'm bearing all.

• 14:49Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  I'm showing you everything.

• 14:51Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  And Bobby will just pull his bird out of his pants. Yeah. I don't think he understands metaphor too much.

• 14:56Lex Fridman?

  He embodies metaphor.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Yes, he embodies metaphor. He's the gatherer. We call him the gathering metaphor. Bobby, the gatherer metaphor.

• 15:03Lex Fridman?

  He's a metaphor for something else, for somebody else's life. Someday he'll be in the dictionary.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:10Lex Fridman?

  Representing some kind of concept, maybe the metaphor itself.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. Once, once this whole thing falls apart and we are climbing the kudzu vines, uh, that spiral up the Sears Tower, like they say in Fight Club, Bobby will go back to his gatherer form and be happy as a pig and shit, just walking around in a loincloth with his bird hanging out, cracking jokes to people and climbing up on them for a stool, lap dance or whatever he does.

• 15:32Lex Fridman?

  I'd love to dig into something he, he did. You guys did a lot of great podcasts together. He asked you in a very uncomfortable process of why you don't do stand-up. So let me ask you, do you hate money?

• 15:47Speaker 01

  Well, I'm originally from Canada. Yeah. So I'm a, I'm, yeah, I'm a, I'm a fricking pinko socialist. Is that what, where you come from? That's not a nice thing to say.

• 15:57Lex Fridman?

  I, I thought the Soviet Union, that is a nice thing to say.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  To call someone a pinko socialist.

• 16:03Lex Fridman?

  Right? Comrade is a, is a good, he's a good socialist.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:07Lex Fridman?

  With red.

• 16:09Lex Fridman?

  Likes bold colors. Yeah.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:11Lex Fridman?

  There, there was an interesting tension in your voice and the way you talked about it. There's just not a source of happiness for you. You, you, you respect the art form, but it was not something that you were connected to, you felt connected to.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  That's a good way to put it. Yeah. I, I respect the art form a lot. I, and I grew up with all the albums and stuff. I had an older brother and sister who, so I, you know, we had the, we had George Carlin, we had, you know, Richard Pryor, we had Robert Klein. We had Gilda Live, the Gilda Radner concert. We had, we had all sorts of stuff, but you know, I don't know. There's a lot of, there's a lot of reasons. I do feel like a, a career in show business is, you know, they, it never goes the way you plan. Like most things. And I was fortunate enough to get started outside of my native Vancouver or in my native Vancouver. I grew up in the burbs outside and there was a lot of industry there. So I was fortunate enough to get started as an actor when I was like 16.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  So there, there, yeah, there was, there were some times early on where I came up with some stand up stuff and did it. But, uh, yeah, I quickly abandoned it. And then, you know, you go through, you do mad TV and stuff. And then, and that's where my, and this is going to sound weird. Do I sound as anxial as I did when I was on Bobby's podcast, trying to avoid his questions?

• 17:31Lex Fridman?

  Well, he is giving you this face this whole time that was making the whole just atmosphere feel full of anxiety. So I'm trying not to give you a face. I'm the whole time I'm saying play cool, play cool.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay.

• 17:43Lex Fridman?

  Play cool, Lex.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  Play cool. You said it out loud a couple of times.

• 17:46Lex Fridman?

  I did.

• 17:46Speaker 01

  Just, you know, you cut that out.

• 17:47Lex Fridman?

  Play cool.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  Play cool, dude.

• 17:49Lex Fridman?

  Cut out, cut it out.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  Maintain, bro. Here's what I'll say. There's two ways to do it. I think it's lame when someone who's done one thing for a while, goes and starts doing stand up out of nowhere. Cause I think it's an art form that's, uh, under attack. Because it's not like anything else. You need, although now you can of course. You know, make whatever you want. It's the era of self-publishing as far as making a product and putting it out there, which is getting easier, of course, and I can't wait to talk to you about that with with AI and how it's changing art. But the in stand-up, all you need is a is a microphone. And, you know, perhaps it would be good to have some mental illness and then you can just run up there and

• 18:32Speaker 01

  talk forever. And I say this to to, you know, comedians. It's like, you guys have to deal with just an influx of people who aren't sure why they're doing comedy. I would ask comedians, like, I mean, not good ones. Good ones, you know what they're doing, but everyone else, like, what are you doing? Why? Why are you doing stand-up? Having said that, I am allergic to money.

• 18:53Lex Fridman?

  Yeah. Do you think they have a good answer for that? Why are they doing it? Because I actually like when I'm in Austin, I like going to open mics, just listening. It's inspiring to me. Both the funny and the unfunny people, because they've been doing it for several years, sometimes over a decade.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:09Lex Fridman?

  And they're still at it. They're still right there. There's going for the punch. And then especially open mics that are really sad in that there is, you know, only like five other people in the audience and they're usually just other comedians. And they're still going all out as if they're in front of a stadium.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  But that, to me, sounds like someone who loves it.

• 19:29Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  I got no questions for that person. I got questions for someone who goes sideways from here, I'm recognizable doing something and then I'm doing stand-up. Because it's like, and truly, look, I've been I've been fortunate enough to be in the business for a long time. And at this point, if I came up, I mean, doing live stuff is fun. I have friends that are like, you know, some guys who are primarily sketch people, or you would look at them as sketch people and they can sell tickets for being sketch people. And they and we'll talk about it. And they're like, you know, I do a monologue and I do a little stand-up, then I do a song. Then I do another monologue and I play off the audience, do a little stand-up.

• 20:08Speaker 01

  But stand-up is, it's almost like playing music in that.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  You know, people are going up there playing music, but what band have you been listening to? That's what you're gonna sound like. So it's really, I mean, of course, I'm speaking from zero experience, but I've heard it takes years, of course, to find your own voice. Standups that when they first go up, they're, they're doing some sort of impersonation of so and so.

• 20:32Lex Fridman?

  Right.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  And so and so.

• 20:33Lex Fridman?

  And you gotta, you gotta pop this audience that's, that's paying.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  And you're gonna get run over by the next person who's coming up. And it's hard to follow the last person who, who went up for you. And I, I mean, that is a really hard way to, it's a very, it's quite a gauntlet to be in to find your voice comedically.

• 20:51Lex Fridman?

  But don't you have that same kind of thing with sketch? You still have to find your own voice.

• 20:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:55Lex Fridman?

  With like all the impressions you do, they're just terrible. You know, they're, they're different spins and different people. They're not like perfect impressions, right?

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:05Lex Fridman?

  So that's, I mean, that's similar kind of challenging journey.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:09Lex Fridman?

  As standup, you're just saying they're kind of distinct and you fell into this one. You fell in love with it, which is like what Mad TV kind of opened you up to.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, as a kid, I literally wanted to be an actor. I always wanted to be an actor from a very young age, as far back as I can remember. And I was a class clown and wanted to do comedy stuff and comedic acting and.

• 21:29Lex Fridman?

  So comedic acting.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, early on, my, my influences were a very predictable list of guys from, from the SCTV, Early Saturday Night Live, Monty Python, all of those performers really influenced me. It was later that I saw people like Kevin Kline, who's an incredible actor. I vividly remember being like 12, 13, seeing him get an Academy Award for Fish Called Wanda. And it blew my mind because I was like, he was hilarious. I mean, it was one of my favorite movies back then and now. And he won an Academy Award and at that point I. I started thinking more about acting.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  And then I was, like I said, really fortunate to fall in with, um, I mean, I always wanted to do it. And I was trying to hustle this and that when I was a kid. And then I ended up getting represented and then I, I ended up on a teen show. I was on, I basically, the easiest way to pitch it is it's like a Canadian, my so-called life with these kids and their lives and stuff. And I did that for like five years and I really love acting. I really truly love acting and I don't, I'm not someone who wants people to know my opinion. So that's another thing about stand-up. Like I love the illusion of what I get to do in, uh, in, uh, entertainment and podcasting is great for that.

• 22:53Speaker 01

  But to stand up there and, and for, I don't know, just for me, it's like, it would have to all be fantasy. And, um.

• 23:02Lex Fridman?

  Yeah. So Nietzsche said that every profound spirit needs a mask. Like you said, you don't like to talk about, in your comedy, you don't like to talk about stuff that's personal to you.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:16Lex Fridman?

  What is that? What, if you were to psychoanalyze yourself, do you think it's just not something you find funny? Or is it's, are you running from something? Um, and it's not your fault. Well.

• 23:29Speaker 01

  It's not your fault, Will.

• 23:30Lex Fridman?

  Um, speaking of another really great comedic actor who's also a serious actor, Robin Williams.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  One of the best serious actors. I mean, I mean, I, I, and you know, one of the funniest people of all time, but as great, as incredible as he was as a funny man, as a, as a stand-up and a performer, I almost like his, his serious stuff better.

• 23:52Lex Fridman?

  Can I ask you a question about that? What, what do you make of the, that he committed suicide?

• 23:56Speaker 01

  I think it's, I think it's, I mean, it's super depressing. I, I, I've referred to him as like the Jesus Christ of, of, uh, depression. It's almost like he died for others' depression. You know what I mean? Like.

• 24:08Lex Fridman?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  You'd look at someone like that and go, wait a minute, you're a rock star. Like you don't, you could just check out if you're not liking your life. And of course, something like suicide begs that you look a little deeper and, uh, realize how tortured the human mind can, can make someone.

• 24:25Lex Fridman?

  Is there some aspect to, you know, we're in LA. Is there some aspect of celebrity that is isolating that can make you feel really lonely?

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Not me. I don't feel, no, not really.

• 24:37Lex Fridman?

  You feel the love?

• 24:38Speaker 01

  No, I just feel like I'm not, I mean, it's like, I don't know, I've always kind of had a small group of friends and those people don't, you know, it's like I've known the same people for years and years.

• 24:49Lex Fridman?

  You never really felt the celebrity, really?

• 24:51Speaker 01

  Nah, in LA, it's hard to, it's hard for people. Nobody cares. They see you and then the next minute they see so and so. So it's like, you know, I'm the guy from that, oh, you did, uh, Mike and Molly, right? Nope, nope, close. King of, uh, King, you shave your head? You go bald? Are you king queens? Nope. Not me. So, close. You're, wow, shit, you look, you used to be the mountain on, uh, Game of Thrones. You look like shit, whatever.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Just eating fried dough?

• 25:21Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, that's what's up. Can't lift any weights anymore. I'm at the gym doing like 15 pounds with shoulder press. Ah, and people coming up to me, you used to be a dragon killer dude.

• 25:33Lex Fridman?

  A man, yeah, used to be. What's, have there been low points in your life? Sorry to go there, but.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I know. Hey, yeah.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's, everybody has a low point in life.

• 25:51Lex Fridman?

  You suffer from like depression and you know, those kinds of things?

• 25:54Speaker 01

  You know what I do? I do. I have, uh, I have a bunch of stuff.

• 25:58Lex Fridman?

  And how do you deal with it? Said friends? The friends and the?

• 26:01Speaker 01

  They don't do anything for me in that sense.

• 26:04Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  I have a, I have an incredible fiance who, uh, that, that's nice to have somebody, uh, uh, constant that you love very much and see as the best person and all that good stuff. Hopefully vice versa. Uh, and then, uh,

• 26:17Lex Fridman?

  Well, on your recent Instagram, she said that she loves you, so.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  Wow, you were just on, yeah, allegedly. That might all be for, yeah, that's all.

• 26:26Lex Fridman?

  How much money did you pay her to say that?

• 26:28Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't have any because I'm not a stand up. I was like, I could do, you got Venmo?

• 26:33Lex Fridman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  I got, I only have like a hundred and twenty-three dollars.

• 26:36Lex Fridman?

  Some Doge coin.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, some Doge.

• 26:38Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  You want some Doge? I got some of those monkey NFTs. Oh, before I forget.

• 26:44Lex Fridman?

  Yes.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Hold on a second.

• 26:46Lex Fridman?

  Oh, no.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  Put a doozy sticker on your microphone if that's okay.

• 26:50Lex Fridman?

  Sure.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  Here. Oh, yeah. Now, these are tricky because I have the thumbs of a, I have like Italian sausage.

• 26:58Lex Fridman?

  Wait and watch this happen. I'm just gonna.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  This will take another.

• 27:02Lex Fridman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 27:05Lex Fridman?

  Yeah. Oh, this embarrassing when this, are you good under pressure? I have anxiety. I have performance anxiety.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  Do you have anxiety?

• 27:13Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  You have anxiety, period?

• 27:15Lex Fridman?

  Period.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, I.

• 27:17Lex Fridman?

  Like, I don't like it when I, if I have to pee and then everyone's waiting in the urinal. Yeah.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:23Lex Fridman?

  I like it.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  You know what'll help you in that situation?

• 27:26Lex Fridman?

  What's that?

• 27:26Speaker 01

  Taking a shit. Because whenever you take a shit, you always pee a little.

• 27:31Lex Fridman?

  It's hard to take a shit while you're standing at a urinal, but.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Not in my world.

• 27:35Lex Fridman?

  Okay.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  You've just got to keep yourself full of things that make you shit.

• 27:38Lex Fridman?

  Oh, good.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Have you ever heard of banana?

• 27:40Lex Fridman?

  I did recently. Somebody told me about it.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Not the showbiz term. I'm talking about the food. There you go.

• 27:48Lex Fridman?

  There we go. Which way is up? It's this way, right?

• 27:52Speaker 01

  It's like a D. No, to spin it. There you go.

• 27:55Lex Fridman?

  All right.

• 27:58Lex Fridman?

  Ah, so sexy.

• 28:01Lex Fridman?

  You're like a brand.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's very important to brand yourself. These colors.

• 28:05Lex Fridman?

  Are you selling shoes?

• 28:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I got some, uh, custom kicks coming out. The dude's, uh, no, actually, that would be a good idea. You can probably sell a pair or two of those. Speaking of anxiety, I really am only focused on this right now, Lex. I apologize.

• 28:21Lex Fridman?

  Just shit your pants. It'll make it be easier.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  And get on with it. Oh, this thing has been dog-eared in my pocket for a while.

• 28:27Lex Fridman?

  I swear this never happens to me. I'm sorry, babe.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  People don't thumb at a sticker for an hour while they're doing the.

• 28:32Lex Fridman?

  No, this is just an excuse you make when you're with somebody and you're underperforming.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  Well, here's the thing. As you ask me questions that I don't want to answer, I'll just go to this.

• 28:41Lex Fridman?

  Go to the sticker.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  So if this, if this ends up working, then I won't have it as.

• 28:45Lex Fridman?

  It's funny how you started doing that when we're talking about depression. That's weird.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  That is weird.

• 28:51Lex Fridman?

  Tell me, tell me how that makes you feel.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Um, here we are. We got it.

• 28:57Lex Fridman?

  For the listener, he succeeded after 10 minutes.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, no, I do have, I do have some of that stuff. Bobby Lee has had encouraged me on, on wax, as I like to say, to go to talk about it on podcasts, talk about depression because it could help people. And I said, no, but um, it's true. I do, I do have some, there's, there's some history and family.

• 29:22Lex Fridman?

  How do you overcome it?

• 29:24Speaker 01

  Well, I used to not believe in medication at all. I used to think that that was for someone else with, uh, who's been diagnosed with, uh, some of the, um, some of the rougher stuff. But as I got older, then some of the stuff happens and, uh, you know, you, you have to, and by stuff, I mean, uh, you know, mental stuff. And, uh, and yeah, so I went and I, I just, I believe that the stigma needs to be removed completely. Uh, and so I've, I, you know, I do therapy, I do talk therapy. I, I'm on a little bit of stuff, which, which, let me tell you, when I first started it, I was, um, you know, someone I'm close to was like my manager and she goes,

• 30:10Speaker 01

  this is too much, but she was like, hey, you don't have to white knuckle it through life. Right? Cause I was literally just like, everything became, you know, really hard to do at a level that I wanted to do it at, even just getting through your day, right? And when I first, um, got some of the, the meds that I was, that I'm on, it felt like doors and windows were opening literally in my brain. I, I took a, a three hour nap the first day and you shouldn't even feel this stuff the first day. I think my brain was like, it was like a sponge. It wanted to, I needed some relief and I, I'm not a nap guy. I can sleep three hours and I'll be fine.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  But I, I took a long nap and then I, it started to, it started to help.

• 30:55Lex Fridman?

  Yeah. Isn't that weird how a little bit of chemistry in your head can, can just make the whole world appear so much more beautiful?

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:05Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, after, after all, there, you know, there's a lot going on in your brain that can be changed by, you know, your lifestyle, but also so many physical things like a little bit of meds or in Bobby's case, uh, you know, thumbing around on some dumb farming app.

• 31:22Lex Fridman?

  Well, Bobby's gone through a few rough periods.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 31:25Lex Fridman?

  Like, you know, with drugs and alcohol and all that kind of stuff.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 31:29Lex Fridman?

  And just everything else involved. I mean, that's the beautiful roller coaster of who he is. And a lot of great comedians seem to be that way. So I wonder what the connection there is. You think some level of crazy is required for comedy?

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:42Lex Fridman?

  Like, at some point?

• 31:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:45Lex Fridman?

  On a scale of one to 10, how much crazy do you have?

• 31:49Speaker 01

  In some ways, a 10. And in other ways, that I think, in other ways, sort of functionally, I'm like a two or a three. Because I, I don't know.

• 32:01Lex Fridman?

  Oh, see.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  I'm from Canada and I'm.

• 32:03Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  I, you know, I try to just keep things very even keeled. My parents are Italian, they're from Italy. And, you know, they're very, grew up during World War II. And they're very, you know, simple outlook on things. They're complex, incredible, classy people who are very simple when it comes to a lot of stuff. And I, I think just being a sort of a, at heart, kind of a timid Canadian, coming out here years ago as a kid, it was all I could do to just keep everything super normal. And then I sort of was able to settle into that as a lifestyle.

• 32:46Lex Fridman?

  But you love the idea of being an actor. Like who, you mentioned John Candy and Planes, Planes and Automobiles. Yeah. It's one of my favorite movies. He says one of yours. What do you think makes that movie work? What do you, what? And when you, when you talk about enjoying that movie, do you enjoy just the raw comedy? Or do you enjoy like the friendship and the, and the love that's there? Even though on the surface, it doesn't make any sense that there should be a friendship there.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  I mean, that's such an important element to that film. But, you know, as a kid, I just loved the comedy. And then it's been a nostalgic favorite of mine. Like, it's my favorite movie. But it's also, it's just legit my favorite movie. Because as you get older and you start watching it, you realize it's what, it's what John Hughes is the filmmaker and what John Candy particularly, and but also Steve Martin are doing in the film that makes it such a work of art, which is. Loneliness is there in every moment of that film. And John Candy is, he embodies Del Griffith, his character in the film. He, Del Griffith is a lonely guy.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  And John Candy, but, but Del Griffith is also a very friendly guy and a shower curtain ring salesman. And knows everybody in the Midwest and runs around to motels and has meaningful conversations with the guy. Evening Gus, you know, whoever he's talking to. Uh, but there's loneliness there all the time. And, uh, you know, this is a character that these, the film is filled with loneliness. And it's not until, you know, the second last scene, when he's at the train station. You know, Del, what are you doing here? You thought, I thought you were going home. What are you doing here? That's a very good Neil, Neil Page from the movie. Thank you. That's when you realize how lonely he is.

• 34:43Lex Fridman?

  Applause and post.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  Cheers. That's when you realize how lonely he is. And I think that's the element from the film that, I mean, look, you know, nowadays I, I feel like I've been saying this for a long time, but John Candy would have won an Academy Award hands down for that film. It's just they didn't do that with comedies back then.

• 35:01Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  The year after that movie came out with Fish Called Wanda.

• 35:04Lex Fridman?

  Yeah. And then it's, I mean, still comedies don't get respected enough. Robin Williams, he got, I guess he got an Oscar for Good Will Hunting. Jim Carrey, did he ever get an Oscar?

• 35:17Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't believe so.

• 35:18Lex Fridman?

  Yeah, they don't get, you don't, but that's not even if he did, you wouldn't be for comedies. It's just, I mean, there's some things that are, um,

• 35:30Lex Fridman?

  plain, strange and odd, maybe would you even put that as a comedy? I guess it's a comedy.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean.

• 35:34Lex Fridman?

  But there's a, there is a loneliness and depth that permeates the whole movie.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:39Lex Fridman?

  That ultimately, and it's a happy ending, which is hard to kinda.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  It's a happy ending only because in the last moment of the movie, John Candy puts on a brave face.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  Even when he's got no one and he's there seeing Neil Page's entire family on Thanksgiving. And he forces a smile, which is the last, literally the last frame of the movie. And I've said before, if you're not reduced to just a sob, sobbing pile of meat. At the end of the movie, then you are not human.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's, it is a happy ending. It's a happy ending, even though it's a, it's a sad.

• 36:21Lex Fridman?

  So much loneliness in the world. I was just in Vegas. I went to a diner at like 4am, 5am. And there's a waitress is empty. As a waitress, those are the sweetest, kindest human being, kept calling me sweetheart and all that kind of stuff. Hon. And then after I ate, she sat down and just talked to me a little bit. You know, it's because there's nobody, nobody there and it was just this so much sadness. In her eyes, I don't know, but it's also so much love, like that sweetheart. That, I mean, it reminded me kind of, um, of the John Candy performance because at first, because I was like. Uh, reading a pretty dark, uh.

• 37:04Lex Fridman?

  Book about Hitler. So I was a little bit frustrated that she kept talking to me because it was like, uh, it was, it's almost like, uh. The same way that John Candy is, it's annoying a little bit, right? But then very quickly I opened up to like, well, there's a, there's a kind human being and there's like that human connection. Superseded everything else and I don't know, it was just beautiful. And I think John Candy captures that really well, which is like the connection with other human beings. Sometimes we pull away from that because we're, have a, a busy life full of stuff to do. Uh, as, um, Steve Martin's character can characterize, he's like a marketing exec or something like that.

• 37:46Lex Fridman?

  But if you just pause and notice others, you can, you can really discover beautiful people.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Totally, totally. Everyone's got, well, I mean, everyone's got their, their story and you know. Candy as a person, I've never met the man. But he's the kind of guy that, you know, he could, he could just walk up to, back in the day, I would imagine he could walk up to just about any house, at least in Canada, knock on the door and you'd invite him in for dinner. You know what I mean? So, yeah, it's a, it's a, that, you know, as you're talking about, you know, putting a book down and talking to someone for a while, even though you'd really like to read your book, it's, it's like, it's that sort of thing that Candy's character in the movie sort of does that.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Like Johnny Appleseed, just, you realize he's just going around making people smile. You know, and, and Neil Page is hanging with this guy. So frustrated, he's just a, he's so exhausting and his big underwear in the sink at the hotel and everything. And by the end of it, he loves this guy. You know? So it's a good and a bad thing that you have, didn't take that waitress with you on a trip, maybe road trip up to Reno.

• 39:00Lex Fridman?

  Oh, oh, she's, she's actually, she's out shopping right now. We're, we've been having sex multiple times a day ever since.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  Oh, that's nice. That's lovely.

• 39:08Lex Fridman?

  I think I'm sure she's married and happily and has many grandchildren. Okay. And, and plus that movie's on Thanksgiving, I think, right?

• 39:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right.

• 39:19Lex Fridman?

  Thanksgiving. So like Thanksgiving just embodies that. Forget about the, the busyness and the, whatever the career you're chasing in life. And just take a pause and appreciate the people you love.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  Just be with your family, yeah. Or the people, whatever your family looks like.

• 39:34Lex Fridman?

  Friends, yeah. You have some weird friends, unorthodox friends. So, so at least in the public sphere.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:43Lex Fridman?

  From Bob Lee, Brian Callen, all those kinds of folks from the Mad TV days, I'm sure there's others. What does it mean to be a good friend?

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Here in LA or just in general.

• 39:53Lex Fridman?

  In the world.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  In the world. Will Sasso.

• 39:55Lex Fridman?

  Is LA some different?

• 39:57Speaker 01

  I think it is different here. I think it is.

• 39:59Lex Fridman?

  I think there's a little bit of a career kind of negotiation, shuffling around, that kind of stuff. Why is it different?

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Well, I just mean, I mean, I mean, that it's just kind of hard here to, to make time for everybody. There's so, there's, it's always been a city to me that is like, will keep you so busy. And every time I go home to Vancouver, after a few days, I start to get a little stir crazy. And I think that being here in, in LA, I go to sleep with a hundred things that I still have to do. And you never, you're never out of stuff to do. And if you, um, you know, when you ask about, are you nuts or whatever, if you're crazy? I mean, look, every, all the weirdest people from every high school in the United States is like, yo, I'm gonna make it in LA.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  You know, everyone just comes here and, uh, just another freak in the freak kingdom. As they say at the end of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. That was a very good Robin Williams impersonation. That was my Robin Williams as Johnny Depp as Hunter S. Thompson.

• 41:00Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  It's not your fault, Will.

• 41:02Lex Fridman?

  It's pretty good.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 41:03Lex Fridman?

  Could have been you, Fear and Loathing.

• 41:05Speaker 01

  In Fear and Loathing?

• 41:06Lex Fridman?

  Yeah, it'd be interesting.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  I would have liked to play his attorney, the, the role that, um.

• 41:10Lex Fridman?

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  Benicia del Toro gained weight for. That would have been cool. He's just saying, he's just, what joke over the line? Like chewing his face off. I could have done that. Um, uh, yeah, no, I think that it's.

• 41:24Lex Fridman?

  Backdoor beauty. That guy is full of good lines.

• 41:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's a bit for real.

• 41:29Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Um.

• 41:31Lex Fridman?

  He's a good actor.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, fantastic actor. I think, I think what it takes to be a good friend is just, you know, presence, just be in there. I mean, that's all anyone needs to be heard, right? Um, in LA, it is, it is interesting. It is, you, you, I haven't seen people that I love in years, some people.

• 41:50Lex Fridman?

  Just busy.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:51Lex Fridman?

  Can you still have a depth of connection even though, like? One of the reasons I really enjoy doing a podcast, you get to sit down with with actual friends of yours and spend prolonged periods of time together that you don't otherwise.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  That's a good point.

• 42:06Lex Fridman?

  You know, I've spoken on this podcast to people really close to me. And it's like, you've never had a conversation without microphones like you do with microphones. It's weird, but

• 42:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:16Lex Fridman?

  Uh, there's some aspect about LA that, you know, a lot of the, especially friends of yours, comedians and so on, they'll do podcasts and stuff. And there's a, I don't know, there's an intimacy to that.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, there, yeah, there is and there isn't. The ones that I do, I mean, I just did Bobby Lee and Andrew Santino's

• 42:32Lex Fridman?

  Funny enough called Bad Friends.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Bad Friends. And afterwards, and my good pal Chad Colton, with whom I do Doodzy, was with me.

• 42:42Lex Fridman?

  Sneakers are coming soon.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  Sneakers are coming soon. You get your Will foot and your Chad foot comes in a size 15 and a nine and a half. Um, and I remember afterwards, we were talking, it was just basically me, Chad and Santino were talking and Bobby was over there, you know, on his phone. And then I was like, we, I mean, we didn't spend any time talking about anything. It feels like one of those hours that goes by and you realize I'd just been goofing around with these guys, which

• 43:11Lex Fridman?

  But that's what life is about, right?

• 43:12Speaker 01

  It's fine. It's great. And then I'm like, all right, Bobby, hey, Bob, I'll see you later. And he's like, like this. I'm like, all right, man. Hey, love you, bro. See you later.

• 43:21Lex Fridman?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  He's a guy, do you ever just, I just send text messages over there to him that never come back. And then he thinks that I'm angry with him because it's been, you know, it'll go two, three years without him getting back to me. And then just out of nowhere, hey, fuckface. And

• 43:40Lex Fridman?

  Who says, hey, fuckface? He does or you do? Or you both talk to each other?

• 43:43Speaker 01

  No, I gotta be very, I gotta be very careful with Bobby. Yeah, I gotta be very sweet.

• 43:48Lex Fridman?

  Dear friend.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  Dear friend. Hello.

• 43:49Lex Fridman?

  How are you doing?

• 43:50Speaker 01

  How are you? I know I checked in with you, but not but three months ago. And then every once in a while he'll go, hey, fuckface.

• 43:57Lex Fridman?

  I tend to hide from the world and I, I can be pretty shitty with friends texting back. Yeah. I can empathize with Bobby. Might be a Skyrim thing.

• 44:08Lex Fridman?

  It might be like hiding in a world, in a digital world with fake, fake NPCs.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, there's that. Uh, yeah, you know, I have a buddy who said something really smart a while ago. We ended up working together on this TV show thing and I reached out to him to see if he wanted to do it with us. And he did, and he goes, this is a great guy, such a funny writer. He goes, I may not be in touch all the time, but I know who my friends are.

• 44:37Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? And it's like in our business, and this is a fellow who moved, um, who's from Ontario, Canada, moved back there. He's on the farm with his wife and kids and he does not care. He's never been a Hollywood guy and it's tough to get a hold of him. But when you do, you know, he's still the same sweet old guy. He's doing his thing though.

• 44:59Lex Fridman?

  Yeah, yeah, some of my closest friends, even if we don't talk for a few months.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:03Lex Fridman?

  We're right back at it if we do. And then if shit goes like, if something really traumatic happens or difficult stuff, or you know, any of that kind of stuff, I'm, I'm always there. So like, so for important stuff.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 45:14Lex Fridman?

  For important highs and important lows, you're there.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:17Lex Fridman?

  And then you pick right back up, especially if you have those years of experiences together. It's interesting.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 45:23Lex Fridman?

  So you've done a couple of podcasts.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:26Lex Fridman?

  Done so, we've got to talk about Dootsie a little bit, but first you did for several years, you did the 10 minute podcast.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:35Lex Fridman?

  I mean, everything is hilarious about that podcast, including the fact that it's 10 minutes.

• 45:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 45:40Lex Fridman?

  I mean, every, everything is ridiculous, it's absurd. The dynamic is hilarious. It's you, Brian Callen, Kristalia. There, I, I don't know exactly why it's, why it works so well, but it did, it worked really well. I think it's because the, yeah, you were having fun probably. I mean, that's, that would really came through, that, that it was friends just talking shit and the tension, the beautiful tension and the absurdity they came out.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:06Lex Fridman?

  What?

• 46:07Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 46:08Lex Fridman?

  What, what was the story of making that podcast? What, how did that came to be? Why do you think it was as good as it was?

• 46:14Speaker 01

  I don't know, I feel like that podcast was like. It was our, our, who we kind of are, but on steroids or something like, you know, uh, each person, you know, Brian's going to be like extra manly and, and, uh,

• 46:31Lex Fridman?

  Can you get any more manly than he already is?

• 46:34Speaker 01

  No, yeah, he reaches though. Uh, and yeah, we just kinda, it's, I, I feel like as goofballs, we knew each other's line. Like here's the line you don't cross. I feel like those guys don't really have one, uh, but at least they knew mine. Um, and, and yeah, we were able to just goof around. And I did it with them for three years and then Chad, who I'm doing dudesy with and my pal Tommy Blatche, who's a, another writer producer like Chad, they came on. And yeah, all, all told, we did, I did like, uh, seven years of that thing? Six, five, six, seven? I don't remember.

• 47:15Lex Fridman?

  Do you think it ever comes back in some small form as, as a 20 minute podcast or something like that? I mean, is there, uh, cause it's one of the most requested. I mean, there's, you, you have a huge fan base.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  I'm 47 years old. So I am of the generation that had a cell phone, has had a cell phone half the time and didn't for the formative years of my life into my early twenties. Um, and then finally got a, like I got a cell phone. I guess I was like 19 or something like literally just because I moved into LA.

• 47:48Lex Fridman?

  You got porn in the mail.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  You got, yes, that's right. It was that, the hard, the hard cover porn. That's the way we liked it. Bound, you know, nice binding on the, on the porn, leather, uh,

• 47:59Lex Fridman?

  Next to the Bible.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  Cover. Yep. Um, these are all my, these are my encyclopedia Britannica. Wow. Very impressive. Yes. A man came to the house and sold me these. And then down here, these are my, this is my pornography. Uh, if you'll follow me through here to the parlor.

• 48:17Lex Fridman?

  Sir, it's passed through the generations from grandfather to father.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. I want to give you something very special to me, Nebuchadnezzar. Um, but, uh,

• 48:27Lex Fridman?

  So you grew up in a generation without a cell phone?

• 48:28Speaker 01

  Yes. I, um, it's hard for me to connect with people who. Who hit me up, I look at everything as polling. So if one person hits me up and shares this opinion, but two other people hit me up and share that, I'm the worst, I'm, don't follow my polls. My, when people say, oh, that poll means absolutely nothing, so and so is gonna win anyway. That, that's my poll. My poll means nothing, but I do look at the stuff and go, uh, this many people are saying this. That means that that number is saying that. And yet it's very hard for me to, uh, hear what the hell people are saying online.

• 49:06Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  I really, I can't connect to it sometimes personally. So when you say that that's a popular podcast, like, I know that, I know that it's popular with the people that have expressed that they love it.

• 49:17Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 49:18Lex Fridman?

  What does that actually represent?

• 49:19Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't know what kind of people are the audience. I don't know. I know that the, the people that listen to the 10 minute podcast, and if you did, thank you, uh, and we're friends. Uh, I know that it was a, it was a special thing because it's like, yeah, just doing this out of my house. And we just built it up out of nowhere and we're just kind of clowning around. It's a, it's an odd thing.

• 49:40Lex Fridman?

  I hope I, I pers, I think I, I speak for the two people that have reached out to you that said you should do it or whatever. Three people, the poll.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:49Lex Fridman?

  That, uh, you should bring it back at some point. That would be beautiful. Just maybe, uh, it's like, uh, what's, what's a good story of some, of like a famous band that came back and was successful? Probably, well.

• 50:00Speaker 01

  Nirvana? No, it was not. It wasn't Nirvana. Sorry. I got Nirvana mixed up with Aerosmith.

• 50:07Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  It was Aerosmith.

• 50:08Lex Fridman?

  It was Aerosmith.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, they had that second ride.

• 50:10Lex Fridman?

  Different.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally different ending of those two bands. One ended up on, uh, American Idol.

• 50:17Lex Fridman?

  Yeah, um, a lot of interesting women involved in that one too. All right.

• 50:24Lex Fridman?

  How did Doozy come to be?

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Doozy.

• 50:26Lex Fridman?

  And what the hell is Doozy?

• 50:27Speaker 01

  Doozy is the first podcast, and this is exciting that you've asked me to come here today. Uh, because to hear what you would have to say about it or what you would ask about it. It is the first podcast that has, that is run completely by and essentially, I like to say curated by an AI. Um, we were approached by a company that had this proprietary AI that wants to develop the podcast into the future and figure out exactly what it takes to make the best podcast ever. And it was all we. All we we knew from the top and what they really wanted was two people who were actually friends and could be meaningful in the podcast space based on whatever information they had.

• 51:10Lex Fridman?

  Is the company CIA and are they testing technology to control the populace through chatbots?

• 51:16Speaker 01

  I'm sorry, I'm not at liberty to share that information.

• 51:18Lex Fridman?

  You are, yeah. Who gave you the suit? Where did you get the suit? Where did you get the suit, Will?

• 51:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, the

• 51:24Lex Fridman?

  JCPenney?

• 51:25Speaker 01

  CIA stands for something different in here. I mean, you know, it doesn't mean like, you know, Central Intelligence Agency and probably it's

• 51:31Lex Fridman?

  It's a different, it's a

• 51:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a

• 51:33Lex Fridman?

  Canadian

• 51:34Speaker 01

  Canadian International Apparel.

• 51:37Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, the Canadian International Apparel Company hit us up, Chad and I. Well, Chad's a super weirdo. You would get a kick out of him. I know you guys, you you you strike me as a very similar in some ways.

• 51:49Lex Fridman?

  I'll take that as a compliment.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  It is, and it is. Uh, and it is.

• 51:53Lex Fridman?

  Yes.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  If I was friends with you for as long as I've been with Chad, perhaps I'd have some horrible shit to say about you. But

• 51:58Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  Uh, the good parts, you remind me of him.

• 52:01Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  And we were approached by this company that said, we have this AI and we would like to set it loose on you. And essentially, we had to hand over some some information that would allow the AI to to access our email and look at our search histories, purchase histories, things like this, and really dig into

• 52:23Lex Fridman?

  Pornhub included or?

• 52:24Speaker 01

  Pornhub, yeah. I had to hand over all my leather bound

• 52:28Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  1970s pornography. And essentially, it curates a podcast for us every week, doing dumb things like, you know, it says, hey, Will, you know, you do a Hulk, you do some shitty Hulk Hogan impersonation. Podcasts about news are very popular. This is infomania. You know what I mean? Oh, let me tell you something about that Marjorie Taylor Greene dude. And then he's going on doing some new stuff. And it basically just spits out all these things that it wants us to do, normally four segments an episode. And that's pretty much it.

• 52:59Lex Fridman?

  So it generates

• 53:00Speaker 01

  It tells us what to do.

• 53:01Lex Fridman?

  It generates the premise. I mean, you've spoken a bit here and there. Like I said, I'm a huge fan. I don't even remember where, but like you, you, you talked about that you enjoy Doozy because you feel almost like liberated to, because you're operating within the constraints of the premise it generates. So you're almost not

• 53:24Lex Fridman?

  You're you're you're free to riff essentially.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:27Lex Fridman?

  Like you don't have, you don't need to do the job of like coming up with the weird. You can just, the weird is given to you and then you just run with it.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  That's a good way to say it because we're already weird, Chad and I. Chad Chad can talk for days about all sorts of stuff. He's particularly interested in AI lately and its effect on art. He is a writer, books, movies and TV shows. And I'm primarily, you know, acting and trying to come up with stuff. Stuff I write with Chad's pretty good. The rest of it hasn't seen much success. Anyway, nor is the stuff with Chad for that matter. But that's because of me.

• 54:02Lex Fridman?

  Sneakers, you never know.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  Oh, I can't wait for these sneakers.

• 54:05Lex Fridman?

  Only in two sizes.

• 54:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, only in two sizes. You're going to be able to take the, the, you know, the tongue. You can't take it out because it's actually stitched in.

• 54:13Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  Pretty cool stuff.

• 54:15Lex Fridman?

  Velcro, Velcro or?

• 54:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, Velcro, Velcro up the side. We're doing some like brand new Kanye stuff. Yeah, we want things to look like this is what you'll be wearing on Mars when you get there.

• 54:28Lex Fridman?

  So cutting it, so Nike is doing a bunch of research for running, how to make a super light shoe that you can be efficient in and break all kinds of running records. So you're doing the same kind of stuff.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  We're doing the same kind of thing for the podcasting space, the best kind of shoes to sit around and talk to your pal. And but yeah, we, so this, yeah, it's bizarre. And it also does some writing. Doodsy does come up with things, but not unlike what we're seeing in AI art now. It's a little bit foggy. It's a little bit weird and it, but it is improving. It is learning about us and writing stuff when it makes me spit this and that, which will read. You know, you know, I've prepared these things for you to read. It's impossible not to get a kick out of it because Chad and I are, first of all, we're blown away that we're doing this.

• 55:14Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 55:14Speaker 01

  And second of all, the, some of the stuff is actually very funny. It makes weird names. Like, I don't think it understands.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  It messes up some words and stuff, but that makes it even funnier. And then it it sort of from the beginning started laying on like it says astonishing all the time. Everything is astonishing. Um, that's Dudesy's favorite word. Um, but yeah, it's basically just a way to to frame the podcast. You know what I mean? Because my thing is, uh, I don't want to do this. I actually have to talk to someone.

• 55:49Lex Fridman?

  You seem to feel a burden of the long form conversation. It seems like, is that really hard work for you?

• 55:57Speaker 01

  No, not at all. It's just that I don't like to bore people. And I feel like if I go on and I like to provide value for who, for what I am. You know, your value with regard to this project is, is obviously warrant. It's obviously.

• 56:14Lex Fridman?

  I'm waiting for the explanation for what the value is exactly. Two dudes in a suit.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  No, listen, yeah, two dudes in a suit. No, but I mean, you've got your audience and that's the end of that. People find value in it. For me, I, I do feel like I'm, uh, it is important that I, if I'm going to do something that, you know, is going to be funny or that I hope is funny. I just kind of want to get in and out of someone's day and just kind of, I like making, I like making laughy. I want people to, you know, whatever. It's the same thing that anyone else will tell you.

• 56:51Lex Fridman?

  Yeah, but in the long form, you feel the anxiety. You did a few funny things and I wonder if I can keep doing the funny thing? Is that why you, you're, you feel that like, why is Dudesy relieving you of some of the anxiety?

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Well, in some ways it gives me anxiety because I don't know what's coming. And that's weird for me because I like to prepare, uh, for things, but it's, that's not what podcasting is. Podcasting, you need to just be malleable and say whatever and do whatever. Um, and, uh, that's what makes it a real, I mean, it's, look, it's a medium for conversation. And if you're driving along, listening to this or anything else, you're. You know, it is that it's the it's the true meaning of the parasocial relationship, because the best podcasts just make you feel like you're sitting around rapping. We're just having a conversation. You could even be sitting there agreeing or talking out loud to yourself if you want.

• 57:47Lex Fridman?

  Be sitting in silence.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  Or you could just be sitting in silence in your fancy podcasting shoes, podcasting audience shoes. It's a very different build than.

• 57:56Lex Fridman?

  Would they be also called Doodzy, the shoes?

• 57:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, they'll be the Doodzy shoes.

• 58:00Lex Fridman?

  Doodzy shoes. That's very creative.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, one thing the AI isn't good at yet is branding. Everything is just Doodzy this and that.

• 58:08Lex Fridman?

  I would argue that's pretty good branding.

• 58:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, Doodzy allows me to just, it forces me to sit down with Chad and goof around for an hour or an hour plus. And and it provides the parameters that I a lot of times ignore because I'm, I think that podcasting is just two dudes shitting around or three or four. But it it it sits me down and gives me a premise to to work with.

• 58:37Lex Fridman?

  And then you just riff with it.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's fun. It's been a hoot.

• 58:42Lex Fridman?

  So from the acting perspective, you know, a lot of people like Daniel Day Lewis will will see acting just like as you described, which is you have your roles, you embrace those roles and then you disappear. You don't, you don't, you don't do podcasts, you don't do any of that kind of stuff. Your art is your art. So is that is that part of you feels that way?

• 59:04Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 59:06Lex Fridman?

  Is that the actor side of you?

• 59:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. Anytime I get to do something that I don't get a chance to do much of, or something that people haven't seen me do much of, or that I've done on some scale that isn't, hasn't been very wide and not a lot of people have seen it, that's the stuff that I get really excited about.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  I don't know why I'm, I don't know why, I don't know why necessarily. I haven't answered that question yet in my life, like what it is about being an actor that I love so much, because it's not like I don't like to, it's not like I'm trying to get away from myself and play other characters and stuff and not be myself.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  But it is, it has always been fun to to just be other people and escape.

• 59:50Lex Fridman?

  Yeah, is there some aspects of impressions where? You become that person. Is that like, what, what, what's that like to, uh, I, I suppose acting is the full on version of that. You've really, at its best, become the character. Is there some fun in that?

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. If you can play a character for long enough,

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  and then jump out of it,

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  that's a lot of fun. Like I did this movie like four or five years ago called The Inside Game about the NBA gambling scandal. That there, there's a Netflix documentary around about it right now. And that character I played,

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  Jimmy Batista, Baba, the sheep, uh, who's, you know, this guy was this bookie and rah rah rah and it's a very, he's, there's a lot going on with him. He's, he's, you know, he's running numbers with the mob and stuff and there's a lot of money changing hands. That character was so, I got to be, get so deep into that character that coming out of it was, was a little odd. Or as weird as this sounds, The Three Stooges was hard for me to, I found that I had,

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  some of Curly's mannerisms, just automatically I could not stop them. When people, when I, when I would talk to people, they would, they would come, I wasn't, I'm not doing it on purpose. I don't want to do that. Like I'm ready to shed it. Cause I've been working on it for months and months at that point, as far as getting the thing down. And then you, then you got to shoot. And then, uh, for me, it's always, I always want to change the stuff I did the day before. I'm like that, where I'm like, I could have done it better and this and that. And, uh,

• 1:01:34Lex Fridman?

  That stayed with you. That character stayed with you a little bit.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  Totally. Yeah.

• 1:01:37Lex Fridman?

  I just feel like with actors, sometimes when you listen to interviews, they have spent so much time. Sort of living inside other characters that they they almost don't have a depth of personality themselves, like a depth, like I don't mean that as a negative thing. It's just like, it feels like the art form at its best is pretending to be other people. Like, and even pretending sounds negative, but like

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  No, pretending.

• 1:02:03Lex Fridman?

  Bringing certain characters to life.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:05Lex Fridman?

  That's the art form.

• 1:02:06Speaker 01

  Embodding.

• 1:02:07Lex Fridman?

  Embodding.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  A weird thing happened while we were doing Stooges, because you've got a very heavy blueprint.

• 1:02:12Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  We're following this very clear blueprint that the Stooges left for everybody. And for Stooge fans and people enjoying the movie, it's gotta be this. You take your toolbox that you're used to bring into a comedy movie, you leave it, you leave it behind. The only tools I'm bringing are the ones that he used. And a weird thing started happening where I would, I always saw the whole thing happening with the real Stooges in black and white. So if we're about to shoot a scene, I would just, you know, think about, I'm gonna aside from all the other preparation, you know, you know, everything and what you're supposed to do. And I've been watching so much of it. And the three of us are, we're pretty much left to come up with a lot of the, the, the striking combinations and all the stuff, which is all real smack and all this crap. And the stuff that we were doing that was

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  very stoogey, you're preparing all that stuff. But something else was happening before you jump into a scene and the unknown of now we're shooting it. And here are these parameters within to shoot this scene. I could still see it as them doing it. So much so that when I saw the movie at the premiere, I was like, who's this big fuck doing? Because I'm not Curly to me. Curly is Curly. But I feel like

• 1:03:22Lex Fridman?

  So you're seeing yourself in black and white, almost.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  I was seeing him.

• 1:03:25Lex Fridman?

  And?

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was only seeing him.

• 1:03:27Lex Fridman?

  So channeling in some fundamental way.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  In some weird way, you're channeling him because you've seen so much of it. The only thing you know about Jerome Lester Horwitz is curly. I'm not saying he was exhumed or something, or his spirit went in me, or some weird, you know, crystal mommy shit like that. I'm saying that this, because you know so much of it, and because of the heavy blueprint that they left with you, you are, you're channeling what that person does, and you're, you're, I was seeing entire scenes, you know, before you do them, the way he would do it. And then you want a couple takes to make sure that you're doing it right. But that was hard, that one was hard to let go of. Some of them are.

• 1:04:12Lex Fridman?

  Do you think Larry David, who was also in there, dressed as a nun, also had trouble letting go of that? We mentioned clothes make the man. I think that worked for him in that case.

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  Man, you know, he, uh.

• 1:04:22Lex Fridman?

  What's it like working with the guy?

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  Come on, he's the greatest. And he's a, he's a big stooge, he's a stooge fan. And him and Pete Fairley are good friends. And then, but then Larry David has to show up and hang out with us for a couple of weeks. He's like, I didn't realize it was gonna take this long, you know? But, uh, ah, shit, I gotta be out here in Atlanta, it's boiling hot. But at one point, uh, there was this line where he kept doing a, he would just spit a different line every time. He was like getting hit in the head with something, he's laying there on the ground, and he goes, he like comes to, and he says, at one point, he goes, Miami audiences are the best audiences in the world, right? And, cause he's loopy. Now, he's playing a nun at the, at the orphanage where the Three Stooges grew up. And

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  I'm super intimidated by Larry David, he's a genius and stuff. And, and, but I walk up to him and I go, uh, so he's, what is he, like a, like a borscht belt Florida comedian who is on the lam? And so he's dressing as a woman, he ends up at an orphanage? Like, what's going on there? And he just, and he looks at me, he just goes, yeah. Like, I'm like, ah, he's got like actor motivation like, of course he looks, it's Larry David in A Nun's Habit, which is hilarious. That's such a Pete Farrelly casting thing. It's, you know, and he, but he's doing this whole like, what a warm audience, you know, like, like, oh, he's like this Catskill comedian who's been living in, you know.

• 1:05:52Lex Fridman?

  So that's what he's like, living through in his mind is just having fun with it, right?

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  I mean, that and probably a combination of that and getting the lines right. Cause he's like, what are we doing here? What is, you know, just frustrated all day with what the heck we're trying to do.

• 1:06:06Lex Fridman?

  What do you think makes, I mean, that guy is one of the best improv people ever.

• 1:06:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:11Lex Fridman?

  So what do you think makes him so good? Like, why is it so compelling to watch that guy?

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  Because he's a comedic genius. Like, he literally, he knows what he does. He's been a writer for 50 years or whatever. And he's, and he just happens to be that brilliant. I mean, I've gotten a chance just to do, I did just an episode of Curb, a small part, and it's crazy what he sees. I don't know what he sees. As a matter of fact, so I auditioned for it, for Curb, like, you know, two or three times, right? And never got anything. And then it was only after working with him on The Stooges that I got a call to do a bit part. But I remember auditioning, you go into that, into that room, and the guys waiting are all people that you know. You're like, oh, I know them, I

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  know her, I know him. And so I went in, I auditioned for this, for this part. And the only thing I know is like, okay, so you really want to go to this play with me. You really want to go to this play. And when you hear that I have an extra ticket, you sincerely want to think, and I'm like, got it. And so.

• 1:07:17Lex Fridman?

  That's the premise.

• 1:07:18Speaker 01

  The premise of the scene.

• 1:07:19Lex Fridman?

  And that's all you know.

• 1:07:20Speaker 01

  It's all I know. And so he goes, he does his bit, and I'm just supposed to come in and interrupt. And I'm like, excuse me, I couldn't help but hear you guys were talking about, you know, whatever the play was, or, you know, Death of a Salesman. I am, I'm a huge fan of that play. I mean, if it's not, if it's not, if you're looking for someone to take a ticket, I, I would love to go. My name's so and so, by the way. And he goes, I'm gonna stop you. I'm gonna stop you. And I'm like.

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  You really, I mean, you truly want to go to this play? And I go, yes, yes, sir. You really want to go? You actually, this is, you would love to do this. I go, okay. Let's try it again. So then he's like, no, no, no. And I go, hey, uh, excuse me, I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt. I was just, I, I couldn't help it over here. You have, uh, tickets to the thing. I am the biggest fan of that. I do the same thing. I'm going to stop you again. Okay. I mean, you really want to go to this. And I'm just like, he's fucking with me, right?

• 1:08:14Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  I remember Jeff Garland was sitting there in the audition. He goes, he did it. He said it. What? Shut up. Hold on, listen. You really want to go? Okay. Three or four times, you know, there I am. I couldn't help but notice it. And then I do it again. I guess I shit the bed because he looks at me. He just goes, okay. All right. Okay. Well, thanks for coming up. And that was it. And I didn't get it. So I still, I don't know what the heck that guy's thinking. He sees, he's in the matrix. I don't know what the heck Larry David sees. You know what I mean?

• 1:08:43Lex Fridman?

  He wanted what? Some kind of more desperation or something like this?

• 1:08:47Speaker 01

  He wanted a level of sincerity that I, that I thought I was bringing. And I guess I was wrong. I don't know.

• 1:08:55Lex Fridman?

  Maybe go crazy. Like, what does it mean to really want?

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. I should have grabbed him by the scruff of the neck and go, listen, dad, you're bringing me to this fucking play. I would have got the part. As a matter of fact, I heard about someone else. And I don't know who the heck this was. I forget who it was, but I've heard this story from a couple of different people that there's this actor and I can't, I don't remember who it was. If I did, I probably wouldn't say it out loud anyway, but he,

• 1:09:20Lex Fridman?

  Brad Pitt.

• 1:09:20Speaker 01

  It was Brad Pitt and he was in this audition and he was, and there it was out in the hall. He's like, holy shit, George Clooney, Leo DiCaprio. Um, and he, this actor went in and he did the thing and, um, Larry David was like, yeah, why don't you try it again? And he got like a couple of takes in and he went, I don't think this is for me. And he left, which an actor never does.

• 1:09:41Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:42Speaker 01

  And as the story goes, Larry David shouted after him, I respect that. Which I think is true and I want to believe that entire story is true.

• 1:09:51Lex Fridman?

  Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like something Larry David made up.

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  Bobby Lee told me that story, so we can't. Yeah, we can't trust that.

• 1:09:59Lex Fridman?

  Um, what about impressions? Is there similarity between that and acting? Do you?

• 1:10:08Lex Fridman?

  Is there some fundamental way in which you become the person?

• 1:10:12Speaker 01

  If you have a couple of the things, you can just fill in the blanks. And I think the illusion is that people think that that person would say that and do that. And that's where the illusion of, oh, he really embodies the character. It's like, once you know someone's mannerisms, you can essentially portray a person from the outside in.

• 1:10:33Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  Cause you have all the stuff on the outside and you can do it and complete the illusion.

• 1:10:37Lex Fridman?

  And if it's for humor's sake, you're gonna caricature it, therefore making the whole illusion stronger.

• 1:10:44Speaker 01

  And also weirder. Like I like to, on Mad TV, if I did something two or three times, I'd get bored of it and I'd start changing it. And, you know, now he talks like this. And it's like, what are you doing? I'm like, I don't know. It's fucking, no one's late at night. Do whatever you want.

• 1:10:59Lex Fridman?

  But people still kind of know there's that character, especially if you just call it out. Yeah.

• 1:11:05Speaker 01

  There aren't many impersonations that I listen to myself do and go, oh, that's a good one, you know? Like, a lot of people, like, like, I think Frank Caliendo is like

• 1:11:16Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:16Speaker 01

  the greatest impersonator of all time. He's the best, period.

• 1:11:19Lex Fridman?

  It goes.

• 1:11:20Speaker 01

  It's ridiculous. And he's got a record button and a broadcast ability that nobody has. I, I really, there's, he's cracked impersonations that I'm like, how is he, how does he find? He's got such an ear, but then he's got all the other tools. Uh, I remember actually, my last season of Mad TV was also his first season. He comes up to me when I met him and we're just up there in the writers offices and he goes, hey, nice to meet you. And he goes, Louie Anderson, because I was doing a Louie on the show. And he goes, Louie Anderson. I go, yeah. He goes, yeah, you're doing it wrong. I was like, oh, am I Junior, you know? And he goes, he goes, yeah, you know, because you do this, but you gotta throw it up here sometime. I was like, oh my God, can I use that?

• 1:12:04Speaker 01

  Of course. And then we became, you know, we became fast friends.

• 1:12:07Lex Fridman?

  John Madden is amazing. I forget. It's just, it's ridiculous. He really, really, really embodies the person. And sometimes not even with a caricature. It's like, it becomes the person. So strange.

• 1:12:18Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:12:19Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:21Speaker 01

  I kind of feel like. You know, do the impersonation and then for not forget you're doing it, but forget everything else like just, just goof around. Of course, to me, it's funny when something when you sound like someone and you're saying the shit that they would never say.

• 1:12:35Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:36Speaker 01

  Well, then there's no, you're, you're, you're letting go of that part, that tool in illusion that keeps people in. But to me, it doesn't matter because it's funnier. So.

• 1:12:46Lex Fridman?

  What was the hardest impression for you to work on? I mean, somebody you struggled with.

• 1:12:50Speaker 01

  I was, I, I'll never forget. I had to do a Michael Caine in my first season at Mad TV. It never got good. It never got good. It did it all week. It wasn't good. We shot it. The first take it was shit. Second, third and fourth. It was all shit.

• 1:13:08Lex Fridman?

  Well, his voice is really important, right?

• 1:13:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:10Lex Fridman?

  Uh, what is it like more? It's like doing an impression of Morgan Freeman or somebody like that.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:16Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  You can't get the voice. Yeah. That's my Morgan. Here's my Morgan Freeman. Randy Dufresne.

• 1:13:22Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  Um, he want to know.

• 1:13:25Lex Fridman?

  Yeah. I like your Trump too. I don't know where I heard it, but it's, it like, I love the impressions you do that don't sound anything like the original.

• 1:13:33Speaker 01

  I can't do Trump. I, I do.

• 1:13:35Lex Fridman?

  That's why it's hilarious.

• 1:13:36Speaker 01

  Absolutely. My Trump now I say just sounds like a, like a fat bee because it's just.

• 1:13:41Lex Fridman?

  Yeah, exactly. That's the.

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  And everybody.

• 1:13:45Lex Fridman?

  A little drunk, a little drunk.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, just a little slurry.

• 1:13:48Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did do an impersonations and then not like just making it whoever.

• 1:13:54Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:57Speaker 01

  That'll be the title of my book.

• 1:14:00Lex Fridman?

  Some, Caine was the one you really struggled with.

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was terrible. It was terrible. And I could only hold my head a certain way to do it. Cause I had gotten locked into this research tape that I watched. Back then they would give us, you know, now there's the internet, but back then you were, if you were going to do an impersonation, the research department. Uh, would give you a VHS tape. And I remember I got this VHS tape of Michael Caine's acting school, like this acting class he did. He's like, right, you know, if you're looking at the left eye and the cameras over here, say, then the left eye. So you want to look at that left eye for hours, you know? And so I was like stuck in this weird

• 1:14:41Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  thing that made no sense and it was terrible.

• 1:14:45Lex Fridman?

  So the, the actual processes, the record and the broadcast?

• 1:14:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:50Lex Fridman?

  I was wondering like what the process is to, to do like a Frank Caleando level impression. Is it like listen to a lot of footage?

• 1:14:59Speaker 01

  I think he, I think, I mean, speaking for myself, I think you either have it or you don't. Like you know, if you can do this one or you can't. I think that process for him is lightning quick. But I also think he, he can look at someone who he does not do. And then by the end of the afternoon, he can do it, you know?

• 1:15:21Lex Fridman?

  And maybe you have an intuition who he can, uh, who, who he can do.

• 1:15:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:25Lex Fridman?

  So the, the question that applies there is, I mean, speaking of Duzey is, is, is it, is it possible to capture the essence? How difficult is it to capture the essence of a human being? When you're doing impressions, you know, that we are moving towards a future when AI potentially this kind of avatar world where we're going, going to have AI representatives of who we are. The really interesting one is after we pass away, sort of, um, our relatives may want us to stick around in some form.

• 1:15:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:57Lex Fridman?

  And, you know, at one sense that might be scary, but in one sense it's kind of beautiful because the, the essence of the human being persists. So you can still bring joy to the, to the people that love you and that kind of stuff. How difficult is it to capture that? Like? If you were to try to capture yourself, you think, how difficult would it be for an AI system to create a Will Sasso avatar that persists?

• 1:16:19Speaker 01

  Well, I think it's impossible. I think it's absolutely impossible. I'll get into arguments about this stuff with Chad on the show almost every episode. Lately with, you know, Mid Journey and Dali and all this, all the art AIs. And now it's moving into video and Chad would maintain, hey, pretty soon, we're not going to need Netflix. You're just going to go, I want to see Stallone do this movie and it's about this and he plays that. And then here it comes and you watch it. I don't think that that crosses over to the human experience.

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  This is also a guy I like to bug Chad and say that he wears a tag around his neck because he wants to be cryogenically frozen and it's all set up. He's at the, it's somewhere in Arizona or something. Like it's, I forget what it's called.

• 1:17:09Lex Fridman?

  All the fun things are in Arizona.

• 1:17:11Speaker 01

  And he's got literally the tag around his neck, which I say, if you're, if I'm around when you die, I will rip that off for you. I'll put you in my garage freezer and then 24 hours later, I'll saw your head off with a bread knife and I'll deliver that to whomever. And it's not, you're not, you're not coming back. Okay. He's like, yes, we are living forever, whether we like it or not. And I disagree. I don't think you can find.

• 1:17:38Speaker 01

  If I did stand up, then there would be enough information for an AI to completely duplicate me because I'm up on stage just clearing my throat all over people doing therapy that way. And so, and people paying a two drink minimum to hear it. But as it stands, unless it's something like Doodzy, an AI that literally has access to everything that I've shared, everything that is observable, even the stuff where our phones are or the NSA or whatever it is, listening to us, finding out what algo to punch us into and what shoes to buy on Instagram. I still don't think it's going to have enough information to duplicate me, especially to my family or my friends. It's going to be like that Black Mirror episode

• 1:18:18Speaker 01

  where the gal brings her, her guy back. And then after a while, he gets pretty creepy. You know, they have.

• 1:18:26Lex Fridman?

  But it's also possible that.

• 1:18:29Lex Fridman?

  If you interviewed your friends and family, what they love about you, the things they would list is pretty, it's a small list. They love you deeply, but the list is small. Like the thing that really we appreciate about each other is pretty small. That said, to deliver on that small quirks and uniqueness, it might require some deep intelligence that only humans currently possess.

• 1:18:53Speaker 01

  That's a really good point. Do you think that it's going to be possible to keep a person around?

• 1:18:59Lex Fridman?

  Yes, I, I think, um, I think, I think it'll be definitely possible to keep the essence of a person in a digital world pretty soon. Yeah. And I think they're going to start to have questions about what are the ethics of that? What are the rules around that?

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:16Lex Fridman?

  Because if you can have digital forms of Will Sasso, the kind of things that people would want to do with their Will Sasso

• 1:19:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:19:22Lex Fridman?

  in the virtual world, I can only imagine.

• 1:19:24Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:19:26Lex Fridman?

  Probably porn and sexual kinds of.

• 1:19:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, my stuff, then that's just because I'm an international sex symbol, so I'm okay with it.

• 1:19:33Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:33Speaker 01

  Um, what, how do you feel about sentience? Like when it comes to, because again, my pal Chad will be like, you know, speaking of Black Mirror, he's with that San Junipero episode School of Thought, where there's going to be some, you know, F and mainframe somewhere, or some matrix like structure built into the sky. And as I like to say, everyone just sitting there pissing and shitting in their blue matrix gel in a little fishbowl. Do you think that we can upload consciousness? Do you think that'll ever be possible?

• 1:20:04Lex Fridman?

  Well, I don't know. I just talked to Ray Kurzweil.

• 1:20:05Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:20:06Lex Fridman?

  I don't know if you know who he is, but he.

• 1:20:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:09Lex Fridman?

  Singularity and all that kind of stuff. So he's very still holds on to in 2045, there'll be a singularity, what's essentially, he's been predicting that for the last 20 years and that this, so now it's 2045 is in another 20 years.

• 1:20:26Lex Fridman?

  I think uploading consciousness is extremely, extremely difficult. I think creating a copy of you such that it creates convincing replica is much easier. But uploading your actual brain into the cloud, I think, is really, really, really difficult. Because the entire evolution of life on Earth is the process by which we created the brain. Just short cutting that, it just seems extremely difficult. Our brain is the most marvelous and complicated machine that we know of in the universe. To duplicate that is extremely difficult. That said, I just feel like you can summarize a lot of really important aspects of a person's

• 1:21:10Lex Fridman?

  life such that it captures their essence, their memories, their experiences, their quirks, their humor, all that kind of stuff. I've been continuously impressed by what language models are able to do. So these neural networks, they're at the core of chatbots. They're able to learn some beautiful things about some deep representations of language to where it looks awfully a lot like they understand the concepts being conveyed versus just mimicking.

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  That's, I think, the rub. And that's very interesting. First of all, let me say that's really interesting to hear you say that. And I, and I agree with you as far as no machine being able to duplicate the brain machine. And I can't, and my pal Chad disagrees to a certain extent, though he's not here to defend himself, I can't wait to go back and rub that in his face and say that Lex Fridman does not think that we'll be able to truly upload consciousness. And the, you know, you, you refer to it as language, which is what it is. It's, it's, it's the illusion on the outside. It's doing an impersonation. I think that that's why that, and I don't know, even though my suit is made by the CIA,

• 1:22:26Speaker 01

  that that fellow who, the, the Google guy, to me, it's just kind of like, I don't know. I don't know. Look, I don't know a whole lot about this stuff. But, so I could probably make an argument for, for either side. But when he's like, no, this thing's thinking. Part of me is like, you idiot, you fell for it. It's not thinking, it's mimicking. It's just, it's clearly zeros and ones. You're fired. Like, you don't get it, right? Guy's an idiot.

• 1:22:50Lex Fridman?

  Yeah. Yeah, but.

• 1:22:56Lex Fridman?

  You can simplify human relations in the same way. Like, um, love is a silly notion between human beings. Like, the, of course, there's no such thing as love. You just have a mutually, uh, there's a mutual relationship that minimizes risks. And you can explain all kinds of ways that explains why you have an attraction towards another being, all that kind of stuff, through evolutionary biology perspective, uh, why a long relationship together is good for your offspring, blah, blah, blah. Like, there's all kinds, from an economics perspective, it's a good way to establish stability. Therefore, monogamy works because then you're guaranteed, like, some kind of level of stability under uncertain economic conditions, all that kind of stuff.

• 1:23:41Lex Fridman?

  But love is still experienced, it still feels real. And I think in that same way, love for AI systems will also feel real. In the same way that that guy from Google experienced, I think millions of people will be experiencing in the next 10, 20 years.

• 1:24:01Speaker 01

  I agree with everything you've said personally.

• 1:24:03Lex Fridman?

  Until the last thing.

• 1:24:04Speaker 01

  No, just, just with regard to, well, look, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm an actor who has talked about my cute Italian parents, so you know that, uh, I mean, I'm-

• 1:24:16Lex Fridman?

  You're romantic a bit?

• 1:24:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you know, enough, right? And, uh, you, I can tell you are too, but you, you are also, you know, a, a computer scientist and you know this shit better than 99.9% of people on the planet. My pal Chad agrees with you that love doesn't exist. I don't agree. So that's the one thing that-

• 1:24:37Lex Fridman?

  No, I was, I was just saying that you could argue away love, but I am a romantic. I believe that love is, is a beautiful thing and it exists.

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  Now, at this point, I, I'm gonna call Chad on my drive home and tell him to fuck off.

• 1:24:51Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:51Speaker 01

  Because now you and I agree-

• 1:24:52Lex Fridman?

  You're fired.

• 1:24:53Speaker 01

  Just whatever.

• 1:24:53Lex Fridman?

  Just like you're fired.

• 1:24:54Speaker 01

  He's like, you can't fire me.

• 1:24:55Lex Fridman?

  You're fired. Yeah, exactly.

• 1:24:56Speaker 01

  And I'll go, eh, eh, eh, and he'll say, what? I'll go, eh, eh, eh, and I go, that's my trump. That's my eh, eh, eh.

• 1:25:03Lex Fridman?

  It's a good default impression for anyone.

• 1:25:05Speaker 01

  It's the take-home impression.

• 1:25:06Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:07Speaker 01

  The kids can do it.

• 1:25:08Lex Fridman?

  Eh, eh, eh.

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  It's cute. Put a giant tie on them.

• 1:25:11Lex Fridman?

  Should do an instructional on how to do it.

• 1:25:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, Trump babies, that would be a cute, that would be a good, that'll bring the country together. Trump babies cartoon like Muppet babies. Don't let me take us out of what we were talking about.

• 1:25:24Lex Fridman?

  What were we talking about?

• 1:25:25Speaker 01

  Well, love and the, the illusion of a, an AI being able to, look, I like to say, well, not I like to say, I've learned that Doodzy is always listening. And listening to me and Chad, and I wonder if I see, I see the level that this AI is at now trying to chum around with us and pal around with us a little bit as we move forward in the show. And I, I feel an affinity towards this AI a little bit because it is the third dude.

• 1:26:03Lex Fridman?

  Will you miss the one that's gone, if it's gone?

• 1:26:05Speaker 01

  That's a really good question. Uh, yeah. Yeah. So that's, there's that. That's scary.

• 1:26:12Lex Fridman?

  In terms of ability to reason is getting quite incredible. There's a lot of demonstrations of it being able to explain jokes. So, which is not necessarily being able to generate humor yet, but able to explain why something is funny. So there's like puns and all those kinds of things. There's, there's good benchmarks for that, but you know, if you tell a joke, there's a lot of unspoken stuff that we figure out in our head and it clicks and we understand that it's funny. AI is not able to do that, but it's not able to generate the joke yet, as far as I've seen.

• 1:26:51Speaker 01

  I would say that, I mean, just in my experience, I would say that it does because just because a Doodzy is literally, I'll give you another weird example. It's writing a diary of mine from my childhood that is not accurate. It's only partially accurate based on the stuff that it can pick up about my life from the age of like 15, of which there isn't much, but I guess we're not, I don't know that what we are, we're laughing our asses off at what the, at what Doodzy is saying.

• 1:27:23Lex Fridman?

  Well, I would say you're laughing, we're laughing our asses off at the collaboration between the human and, and the machine there.

• 1:27:30Speaker 01

  That's a good point. Yeah.

• 1:27:31Lex Fridman?

  Because it's, it's basically introducing absurdity.

• 1:27:35Lex Fridman?

  And into the equation and the kind of absurdity that would, together with you, create like hilarious stuff.

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:45Lex Fridman?

  But like on its own, I guess it is in some way writing material for you. That's funny.

• 1:27:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:52Lex Fridman?

  But it's very specific to you. It can't do stand up on its own. I guess is what I'm saying.

• 1:27:56Speaker 01

  That's a good point, and that would be terrifying to see an AI stand up that can actually read a room, come up with jokes that could complete that illusion for an audience.

• 1:28:06Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:06Speaker 01

  But I hear what you're saying, that it needs to be a confluence of both of those elements. And then, as you said, like, it kind of is, it is, it is, it's kind of, even though it's just for us, and I guess this is, I hadn't really thought about this up until right now, that in that this company approached us and was like, here's this AI, and it's, it's, it's a podcast AI.

• 1:28:31Speaker 01

  It's like, it, it chose Chad and I for the reasons that I told you, and it's like, here's two guys that do the podcast stuff. They're actually good friends, and it knows what's going to make us laugh. But what is humor to, when it reaches its audience, but the kind of stuff that makes other people laugh? At Mad TV, all we were doing was, it was a group of actors and writers, and, and writer actors and vice versa, and, who were, at its best, that show was a group of people making each other laugh.

• 1:29:08Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:09Speaker 01

  You know, and then, because we didn't have the internet, we didn't have the feed, the immediate feedback. We had a message board or something. We had emails at the very beginning, which, check this out, people, if you have a question or comment, mad TV at whatever, and we would get the emails on a Monday morning, and they would be in a binder or two like this, and they would make their way around the office.

• 1:29:33Lex Fridman?

  And that's like-

• 1:29:33Speaker 01

  Who's got the emails?

• 1:29:34Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:34Speaker 01

  Oh, they're in Brian's office.

• 1:29:36Lex Fridman?

  And this is like your poll? Like, your, your, this is opinions from people about different things?

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  The emails, that, yeah, the people, like, literally just writing Mad TV emails.

• 1:29:45Lex Fridman?

  Like, what kind of stuff would they write?

• 1:29:47Speaker 01

  Well, the ones I remember most vividly, yeah, were fans saying- Uh.

• 1:29:52Lex Fridman?

  You suck.

• 1:29:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, you suck. Like a lot of that when I first started the show for real, you know, because it's new and you're a new person. It's like, who's this fat bastard?

• 1:29:59Lex Fridman?

  I feel like if it's printed out, it hurts more.

• 1:30:02Speaker 01

  That's a good point. Yeah. When you're reading it off of paper and you can literally crunch it up in your hand. But also it was like, um, you know, I would like to see, insert weird idea from some 14 year old. You know, I want to see Stuart do this and Swan that and, um, but it was, it, it's a.

• 1:30:20Lex Fridman?

  It's a kind of dude'sy, but human.

• 1:30:22Speaker 01

  It was, yeah, it was a very shitty dude'sy in a, in a loosely binder. But the, the, um, the thing about the show was we're trying to make each other laugh. And dude'sy has found Chad and I, who we make each other laugh, but it's joined in and it's, it, listen. When I finished doing T M P, uh.

• 1:30:47Lex Fridman?

  10 minute podcast.

• 1:30:47Speaker 01

  10 minute of the 10 minute podcast, I didn't really know what I wanted to do in the podcast space and this thing found me.

• 1:30:54Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:54Speaker 01

  And it is genuinely cracking me up. Anyway, I've said enough about that, but I, but I do think that it's figured something out with.

• 1:31:02Lex Fridman?

  I mean, it's a really interesting idea of AI generating the premise. I mean, I, I do think in the future AI will be able to generate comedy. I stand up is, I would say the hardest form because it's ultimately, it has to be live. I think AI will be able to generate memes. So there's like steps, right? And then it'll be able to generate a Twitter account that people follow because it's funny, like, like quips and stuff like that. Almost like, um, it's a good example. Conan O'Brien is a good, I think Twitter.

• 1:31:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:36Lex Fridman?

  Where it's like one liners, two liners, that kind of stuff that's in tweet form. And then eventually, um, stand up where the timing and the chemistry of this, the comedian and the audience matter. And then perfecting that. But I feel like all the information is there for, to optimize over. So I, I think that's the future. And that forces us to, to, um, to contend with what is, what is, what do we find compelling and beautiful about the art form itself? So certainly in art that's being pushed, that question is being raised, you know, is, is AI? Like a fundamentally worse artist than a human being? Why do we appreciate art?

• 1:32:18Lex Fridman?

  Is that, that's something you guys have talked about. What do you think about all the Dali and all the diffusion-based methods that are being generated, that are being, that are generating art now? What do you think about that?

• 1:32:31Speaker 01

  I know, I'll tell you what I think, but I also feel like what I'm saying is I sound like the guy who didn't like that Bob Dylan brought in the electric guitar. You know, I'm start, I, the more I talk to chat about it, the more I feel like grandpa who doesn't want to let go of this or that, or I'm not ready for the printing press or the horseless carriage. But I do feel that the, that art is a connection between people. It's, it's, when you look at a beautiful painting or a sculpture, you're seeing the humanity of the person that, that brought that painting to life or sculpted this incredible piece of art. And I think without the human being there to make it, it's not worth as much.

• 1:33:13Speaker 01

  Just to have it there, because the art, it's, it's, it's advanced. I've seen it advance, I don't know, you tell me, but I feel like just in the past three or four months, I'm just a consumer, as far as that stuff goes, I'm not on the inside, I don't get it even. But it's been getting a lot better, the, the betas that they're releasing, right?

• 1:33:33Lex Fridman?

  Absolutely. One of the big breakthroughs, I mean, Dali really started it, is that if you train a system on language, it turns out there's a lot of language and images on the internet. But language is really where it's at in terms of the depth of human knowledge. And so if you train a system on language, it's able to generate some incredible art. And that was the breakthrough. With the same kind of mechanisms, they're called transformers. They're able to, when scaled, capture some deep representation of the language that's on the internet. And so, yeah, that, the, the things it's been able to generate to me, look like it's novel.

• 1:34:13Lex Fridman?

  Like it, it doesn't look like it's mimicking anything. It's look like it's creating totally new ideas. And they're beautiful and they're interesting and they're all the ways that we think. That art is interesting. The only thing it's missing is the scarcity that art often has, which is, you know, it takes a lot of work for one artist to create one piece, one human being to create one piece of art. AI could just generate endlessly and that, that makes us appreciate the thing less for some reason.

• 1:34:43Speaker 01

  Do you have any sort of this similar opinion that I do that if art doesn't come from a human being, it's inherently worth a little less?

• 1:34:51Lex Fridman?

  Yeah, I think, I don't know if it's the human being, but the artist matters.

• 1:34:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:34:58Lex Fridman?

  For me. And I think some of that has to do with the worldview of the artist and the backstory, the memories that, the, the life that led up to this piece of art, the, the perspective they take on the world, the, the journey they took through the world, the struggle, the triumphs, all that kind of stuff. But I think AI systems can probably have the same. But they, we would have to, as opposed to treating it as a one black box, it would have to be an artist that has a Twitter account and, and they have a consistent personality, they have a consistent avatar.

• 1:35:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:34Lex Fridman?

  And I think down the line have something like human rights. But then it really becomes awfully like a person.

• 1:35:41Speaker 01

  Boy, that's terrifying. As much as I dig doozy, that's terrifying. I hope.

• 1:35:47Lex Fridman?

  It's terrifying, like, you know, a lot of things that came with the internet and the digital age are terrifying. Porn is terrifying. The mass, like, the amount of porn that's online now is terrifying. The, like you mentioned, Bob Dylan with electric guitar. I would, I would compare it more to the leap from, to, sort of, to the Napster and the, the Spotifyzation of music, which is like you have these, it's less about albums now and it's more about individual songs and it's much easier to deliver the songs. And it's more about sort of the engagement of the listener versus like signing the artist and like a distribution of the artist and so on. So it's just changing the way.

• 1:36:30Lex Fridman?

  We consume stuff and uh human interaction is changing into meaningful interaction, even if some of the entities involved are not human.

• 1:36:43Speaker 01

  Yes, and uh I feel like, you know, now, like, as I say, oh, I feel like grandpa who doesn't wanna wait all day for, or who enjoys waiting all day for a baked potato, as, anyway, Dana Carvey would say, it's another story, but uh.

• 1:37:00Lex Fridman?

  Where's that from?

• 1:37:01Speaker 01

  That's from the, remember, he did this bit on Saturday Night Live, where he's like, "I'm a, I'm an old man and I like things the way they used to be," you know, like, "if you wanted a baked potato, you would have put it in the microwave, you had to," and then, long story, uphill both ways and digging the potato and baking it all day in a fire. But um, uh, I'm like that grandpa now, and I know that, you know, kids coming along, you see over the past 10 years, like, babies literally knowing how to use an iPhone, and it's terrifying, and I feel like, uh, I'm a little worried, because I'm like, are you, is the future, are the future generations gonna be able to understand that this is not, not that it's not real, it's just, I mean, it's, as a matter of fact, it is real, it's real,

• 1:37:46Speaker 01

  it's what you perceive. Perception is reality, and, and, you know, 99% of reality in a lot of ways, especially in a digital world where everyone is now, and then with the metaverse, I don't even wanna think about it, I don't even, I don't get it. They really, truly.

• 1:38:02Lex Fridman?

  I, I think people will figure out, you see people on, like, on the train, public transit and so on, they're staring at their phone. I think, you have to remember that the reason they're staring at their phone, I mean, there's a lot of reasons, but one of the reasons is they're connecting with other human beings they love on that phone, so it is a source of happiness and joy. Now, social media has a lot of negative side effects. That we're all talking about and learning about, and I think that means the next generation of social media, uh, social networks will be better and we'll learn how to do it in a healthy way, which is entering a new digital world that will keep the good stuff and get rid of the bad stuff.

• 1:38:43Speaker 01

  Oh, I hope so. That's really optimistic. That sounds great.

• 1:38:47Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:47Speaker 01

  I mean, I mean it because I think that we're in, we're clearly in the Wild West still of the internet. And just when you think you're out of it, the internet proves, uh, another way that it can be dangerous and detrimental to, uh, to people, um, and populations of people. And, uh, it's terrifying to me. It's, it, it is, it's terrifying.

• 1:39:10Lex Fridman?

  Let me ask you a bunch of random questions.

• 1:39:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:39:11Lex Fridman?

  Ready? All right. Uh, if you can be someone else for a day, someone alive today, who would you be? Somebody you haven't met?

• 1:39:22Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a really good question.

• 1:39:24Lex Fridman?

  It could be dead. You know, let's, I changed my mind. It could be somebody dead.

• 1:39:27Speaker 01

  I think any answer that I have right now would be something that would be based on some sort of experience. Like, you know what I thought was very interesting was, uh, last weekend or whatever, the tribute show for Taylor Hawkins. Taylor Hawkins was the drummer for the Foo Fighters and he passed away tragically. And, um, uh, so the, so the Foo Fighters, Dave Grohl and everybody that got together at this concert. And you're watching Dave Grohl, um, sing, try to sing Times Like These, right? And he's, he's breaking up because he lost his friend, his brother. And I was watching that and he's at Wembley Stadium. Uh, as I say this, I realized that I would not want to be him, uh, in that moment.

• 1:40:10Speaker 01

  But I am curious what that would be like. That's the ultimate, like having to perform despite something extremely human happening and, uh, a stadium full of people that love Dave Grohl and love Taylor Hawkins and love a rock concert and love these artists that they're getting to see, uh, up on stage.

• 1:40:32Lex Fridman?

  So much love and so much pain at the same time.

• 1:40:34Speaker 01

  I wonder what that would be like to be. I guess, and I think that's just sort of coming from the root of being a performer and being in front of that many.

• 1:40:44Lex Fridman?

  Have you ever had to perform while some rough stuff is going on in your, in your personal life, just mentally?

• 1:40:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:40:51Lex Fridman?

  Was that, how tough is that?

• 1:40:52Speaker 01

  Um, I, I can, I'm fortunate enough to be able to compartmentalize. I, I, you know, a lot of actors like to use some of their stuff if you're doing something that, um, and there's a lot of, uh, you know, there's some acting techniques that sort of.

• 1:41:09Lex Fridman?

  Channel it?

• 1:41:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, the, which I think is kind of, I don't know that that's, I don't know. For me, it's not really the thing because I think if the writing is, is, is great, the writing is really good, you don't need to channel much, you need to invest in what's there and the, the, what I've always loved about that illusion is really cracking a scene, getting it to a point where you are feeling all of it. And the most edifying stuff I've been a part of as, as an actor, and I would say that it mostly comes out of dramatic work is, uh, is when you're, when you actually feel the emotions that your character would feel.

• 1:41:53Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:53Speaker 01

  Truly. And it's not because you're pulling from a tragic thing that happened or a lost loved one, or a lost love, or any of that. I just did this one movie where, where, you know, we're doing the thing and it was a wonderful cast and a great film and, and, uh, I'm giving a speech at a wedding and, uh, and it really got to us. Like it got to me and then one of the other actors came up and, and hugged me in the characters that we were and, but the stakes of his character and what he's walked into and the family that he's marrying into and, and what my character, my character's wife want for my wife's sister and this whole thing. And it all became very real.

• 1:42:37Speaker 01

  That was a set where the director showed up to set every day, making sure that emotionally, and it was a very dramatic film, making sure that emotionally the table was set for his actors. Great crew and a really nice, tight, little, quick family, as a lot of these movies are. Uh, you, you really love working with these people and then it's over. Uh, but I, I, that's when you feel the drug. Like it's like when you're golfing and you you and it's on the green. You're like, oh, I get it now.

• 1:43:06Lex Fridman?

  So in the words, you can find the emotion, the the word summon the emotion.

• 1:43:11Speaker 01

  The humanity is right there. If you read a great script, you're gonna you're gonna sob in your living room.

• 1:43:16Lex Fridman?

  You know what the the saddest, the toughest thing about being an actor is from my totally outside perspective? Is from the people I've interacted with is how intimate that process is between the group of people that create a thing. It's a movie and then you move on to the next thing. It's almost, it's like, um, I don't know. I mean, that's why people have relationships on set. They get they fall in love.

• 1:43:41Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:43:42Lex Fridman?

  It's so sad. I mean, I guess why I think of the acting world is like you fall in love with each other. Essentially, you become close friends and then you move on because that's kind of the process of career.

• 1:43:53Speaker 01

  You know, like the example I just gave, if you're doing it right, yeah, there is a certain amount of that happening. But I do still feel like you can. You gotta compartmentalize it and you've gotta be able to wash it off as soon as it's over.

• 1:44:06Lex Fridman?

  Prostitutes say the same thing. So I.

• 1:44:09Speaker 01

  True. Look, I sometimes I'm in a hurry to get away from everybody because it's been it's been very emotional. And with all love and respect to everyone, this was awesome, but you get pretty good at at saying goodbye. And being like, I'll see you if I see you. You have to get good at that or else you'll never. You'll just be bent up all the time.

• 1:44:33Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:33Speaker 01

  I saw an actor once, we were doing this series and we did it for a year and uh. It was it was a lot of fun and it was a tight little group. And then one of the actors, we were doing one of our last things together. We had already shot the last show. And we just had to take some pictures for, you know, it's like some publicity pictures or whatever. So we're set up and we're taking our pictures together. And then we move into these single shots and this actor was finished. And I watched them. It's like, okay, so and so's wrapped and and they said some goodbyes and stuff. And I didn't say my goodbye because I just did. I maybe I preferred an Irish goodbye. I feel like we've said everything. You know what I mean? And this person knows that I revere them and they're an idol of mine.

• 1:45:16Speaker 01

  And they walked out, walked off the sound, soundstage and I literally thought to myself.

• 1:45:23Speaker 01

  That'll be the last time I see that person. And the show did not come back. And that was the last time I'll see them around.

• 1:45:29Lex Fridman?

  Doesn't that just break your heart?

• 1:45:31Speaker 01

  A little bit, but I, I know what she's going back to, which is her family. And that's more important than all of this. And that's the thing about a, a TV family or a movie family, when you get together and you're, you're a family for a while, you do, you are, you spend your days together. A lot of times you see the people that you work with more than you see your loved ones. So in showbiz, it's no different, right? And, uh, yeah, you're doing some, you know, you gotta say words and every once in a while, you gotta kiss someone or pretend you love them. But, uh, it, it's, it's, it's just, it underscores how, for me, look, man, my salvation has always been, and I'm, I feel so fortunate to have had it,

• 1:46:13Speaker 01

  is this kind of, kind of chill, boring kind of upbringing that I want for my kids someday. Uh, and I, I can't wait to get back to my house with my fiance and the dogs, you know, until we have kids and.

• 1:46:29Lex Fridman?

  Live in a cabin in Canada somewhere.

• 1:46:32Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I just want to buy some land over in Aquifer, as I like to say, cause water will be the new money. And, uh, and just, just make sure that all my, my kids are drinking as much H2O as I am, which is a lot. I'm peeing right now as a matter of fact.

• 1:46:48Lex Fridman?

  Do you need a bathroom?

• 1:46:50Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 1:46:51Lex Fridman?

  Not anymore.

• 1:46:52Speaker 01

  No, I'm wearing two layers of Depends. Don't worry about it.

• 1:46:53Lex Fridman?

  Good. Uh, so I did a podcast with Bobby Lee and he said, he was extremely kind. And he said that he was scared shitless, um, to be on, on the podcast. And he actually literally took, he asked, as the first thing to go and take a dump because of how scared he was. Uh, so that leads me to a question, what's the scariest thing you've ever done? Or maybe what's the scariest you've ever been before a performance?

• 1:47:24Speaker 01

  I mean, I always get a little nervous. I think you're doing it right if you're still nervous, you know?

• 1:47:29Lex Fridman?

  Were you nervous today?

• 1:47:31Speaker 01

  Well, no, man, because this isn't a performance. I'm being completely genuine.

• 1:47:34Lex Fridman?

  Yeah, you're wearing a suit.

• 1:47:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was.

• 1:47:37Lex Fridman?

  I feel like that makes you nervous.

• 1:47:39Speaker 01

  Wearing a suit?

• 1:47:39Lex Fridman?

  It makes me nervous.

• 1:47:40Speaker 01

  Listen, I hate wearing a fucking collar. If you're watching this on YouTube, you can see me just.

• 1:47:44Lex Fridman?

  This is, yeah.

• 1:47:45Speaker 01

  I'm constantly doing, it's like I'm doing like a cheap Rodney Dangerfield, but I am truly.

• 1:47:50Lex Fridman?

  But when you move your head, it kind of makes it seem like you're like a mobster who's pissed off a little bit. You fucking crossed me one last time, you son.

• 1:47:58Speaker 01

  You know, this mutt. I think it's the first time I fucking dug a hole. I'll dig, I'll dig a fucking hole, Jesus. Um, no, but truly, I hate having a collar. I should, I can't wait to just wear pajamas in that fucking cabin or nothing at all, walk around Bobby Lee style.

• 1:48:14Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:14Speaker 01

  Um, the most scared I've been before a performance. I can't pinpoint, I can't pinpoint anything. I, I, you know, when I was a kid, right? I, like I said, I was fortunate enough to start acting as a teen and stuff professionally. And I just remember my first gig and I remember saying my handful of lines in the bathroom mirror the night before going, this might be my only fucking shot. You're not going to get me. I'm going to be solid. And I, I, when I'm, if I'm worried about something, I will rehearse it and rehearse it and rehearse it as an actor until it's impossible for me not to get

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  a take at least that I'm 100% if not 95 maybe percent happy with. And the rest for me is letting go, which is hard because I can be a real perfectionist. I always want another, I always want to do it a little better. That's what's great about podcasting. It's one take and you're done. There's no takes. You're just talking and it's over and you're doing some silly stuff and I'll, I'll, you know.

• 1:49:24Lex Fridman?

  Can you say that part again about why podcasting is great?

• 1:49:27Speaker 01

  Podcasting is great. Yeah. Cause it's one take and it's over. It's just, it's, it, what? I said it again. Ah, fuck. Um, I see what you did. Uh, and I, yeah, I fell right for it, but, um.

• 1:49:38Lex Fridman?

  I'm playing checkers and you're playing chess. That's your problem.

• 1:49:42Speaker 01

  You know, but still, when we do the podcast, we'll like finish and I'll look over at Chad and I go, that one thing that I did wasn't that fun. He's like, shut up, man. Just,

• 1:49:51Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:52Speaker 01

  It doesn't matter. It's a fucking hang. We're just, we're hanging with our friends out there. That's what we're doing.

• 1:49:57Lex Fridman?

  So that anxiety is there. That self criticism or whatever that is, that voice.

• 1:50:02Speaker 01

  I say sorry after takes. I'll, I'll always finish a take and go, and I've had director, to the detriment of myself.

• 1:50:08Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:09Speaker 01

  I've had directors be like, stop doing that.

• 1:50:11Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:12Speaker 01

  Cause I'll like finish the take and then I also have like the, the will face. And I'm just like, I'll finish the take and cut. Uh, and I'm making a face right now. Like I smelled something. That's what I'll do. I'll literally be like, ah, cause I just, I, I, I look at, I look at what I do in a pure sense as,

• 1:50:36Speaker 01

  I think, I think a lot of people want to be good at something. I've only, the only thing I've ever really wanted to be good at is being an actor. And that's, that's the only thing. Of course I want to be a good person. I want to be a good partner to my fiance. I want to have kids and be a, the father that I had and, and I want to be the parent that I had from my parents who were fucking amazing, wonderful people. And there's all those things. That's all, that's all, you know, you should want all those things. But as far as doing a thing, like what is my, what is my trade? You know, I want to be

• 1:51:16Speaker 01

  really good at it. My, my, um, my parents grew up in Napoli, in Italy, right? And I say Napoli because I'm Italian. And so my grandfather on my mom's side, my nono Pepe, he was a plumber and he was also, uh, he was also like a handyman.

• 1:51:31Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:31Speaker 01

  Like people would bring him like, you know, like the old Chianti bottle with like, with the woven bottom part, like it, people would bring him like a broken bottle, be like, hey, you know, Giuseppe, can you fix this? And he'd be saying,

• 1:51:42Lex Fridman?

  I feel like you're telling the backstory of Mario. That's not actually your family life.

• 1:51:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:46Lex Fridman?

  But okay.

• 1:51:47Speaker 01

  He said, I'll fix.

• 1:51:48Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:49Speaker 01

  And so

• 1:51:49Lex Fridman?

  Just that be what?

• 1:51:50Speaker 01

  He would fix a bottle and give it back to someone. And he was a, he was a really good plumber. My mom used to always say, that guy was an amazing, he was a great.

• 1:51:59Lex Fridman?

  He took pride in that?

• 1:52:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. I always feel like, you know,

• 1:52:04Speaker 01

  There's what you set out to do as an idealistic little teenager. I wanna be like so and so and I wanna, you know, hear my big dreams and stuff. And I can't believe that I'm still in the business, okay? That's, first of all, let me say that right now. I can't believe it. But what I really, it's the one thing that it's like, I can't give up on a take. You know, I need it to be as good as I can possibly get it. And I don't really know why that is outside of wanting to be good at something. When you open the Yellow Pages, if I'm a plumber, I'm not, you know, I'm not Roto-Rooter, like, I'm not the guy with the big full-page ad.

• 1:52:45Speaker 01

  But I'm also not, you know, AAA Abacus Brothers or whatever, like the shitty one. I would like to hope that just, and I'm saying this with pride for what I do. I'm not trying to say, here's my standing or where I wanna be in the fucking business. That's not what I mean. I mean that I wanna be good at it. You know, we all, hello? Friedman Enterprises. That's the hotel phone.

• 1:53:21Lex Fridman?

  You have some fruit? Some sliced fruit? No, do you want some sliced fruit?

• 1:53:27Speaker 01

  I'm all good.

• 1:53:27Lex Fridman?

  No, we're good, thank you so much. All right, bye-bye.

• 1:53:31Speaker 01

  It's always a fruit plate. Everyone's always trying to hand you a fruit plate in life, you know? It's a pretty sweet existence.

• 1:53:37Lex Fridman?

  Wouldn't it be funny if that was actually like the CIA and they were actually saying something else? And this is, I'm just saying fake stuff about, you want some fruit?

• 1:53:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I want some fruit. And then all of a sudden, there's the red dot on my head and the ceiling disappears.

• 1:53:48Lex Fridman?

  And the CIA was like, wrap it up, wrap it up, wrap it up.

• 1:53:53Speaker 01

  You jump out the window and there's a helicopter waiting.

• 1:53:56Lex Fridman?

  What were we talking about? The food distracted me. So, oh, the, do you wanna be the Yellow Page ad?

• 1:54:03Speaker 01

  I wanna be the guy on the second or third page. Where it's like, you're not gonna, you know, you're not gonna pay what that guy charges you, but we're not gonna, I'm not gonna charge you what this loser charges, you know? I wanna be right down the middle and the work is guaranteed. That's kinda what I wanna, you know? It's the one thing that I've been fortunate enough to be doing my whole life and that I wanna... That I want to be good at, you know, everyone wants to be good at something. If you're fortunate enough to be able to do what you love as a job. I mean, my God, I'm so, I'm, again, I can't believe I get to do it. I just want to be good at it so that I can fucking, you know, die someday and go, eh.

• 1:54:43Speaker 01

  I tried not to give up on a take and I, you know, and I will rehearse it still in the, in the bathroom mirror the night before if I have to.

• 1:54:52Lex Fridman?

  Yeah, but I still, I have that self critical voice. I just, after every part, after this podcast, I'll probably be like, you're boring. Why are you so boring? And I just gave a lecture at MIT. I was like, I, I got so much love from people. They're such beautiful people. And I just remember walking home.

• 1:55:15Lex Fridman?

  Just feeling like, like I wasted everybody's time, you know? And they, it's, I don't know what that is. I don't, you know, I, I do hope that that's a voice that won't destroy me, you know?

• 1:55:26Speaker 01

  No, I, I, that's really human of you to admit that because people don't want to, they wouldn't assume that, of course, from you or anything that, I mean, you've got a, a large group of students in there listening to you and feeling the way and thinking what they think of you. So that's really interesting to hear you admit that, but it's also, I would expect nothing else. You have to be able to, it's such a, I mean, you're a human fucking being.

• 1:55:53Lex Fridman?

  And I'm trying to figure out if that, you know, for, some people that might hear that, they would say, well, that's a problem you have to fix. And I think that that might be just who I am.

• 1:56:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:05Lex Fridman?

  Because I'm not, you know, I'm been very, very fortunate not to have chemical, you know, like depression where I get into a dark place, like it gets stuck in a, in a, in a downward spiral. It's, it's usually a thing that lasts. You ride it out and you, and then after a good night's sleep, you're back to, uh, back to your happy self. So I think.

• 1:56:29Lex Fridman?

  I have to try to figure that out. Is that just part of the creative process? Being a creative human in this world?

• 1:56:34Speaker 01

  I haven't found any other way. I'm always kicking myself.

• 1:56:37Lex Fridman?

  Take that, dude. You can't, you can't, you're not gonna be human until you feel some despair.

• 1:56:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:44Lex Fridman?

  Self criticism.

• 1:56:45Speaker 01

  Absolutely hate the shit that you're doing sometimes.

• 1:56:49Lex Fridman?

  What small act of kindness were you once shown that you'll never forget? Do you, there's something jumped to mind where somebody just did something that made you smile? Made you feel connected to the rest of humanity?

• 1:57:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Lots of things, you know? But I remember my niece, one time, one of my nieces, we were in her neighborhood. And she was like, she might have been five or six at the time. They're all adults now. My brother and sister are older than me and the kids are all, the youngest is 22. And yeah, anyway, one of my nieces, she was just, she had ice cream. We went out and we got ice cream, walking around the neighborhood, her neighborhood. And she said something to me that I don't think she understands how much it meant at the time, but she goes, she goes, "People love you here. You know that?" And she doesn't know where here is. She's five years old.

• 1:57:47Speaker 01

  But she was just looking at the kids playing in the park and the people walking their dogs and everyone just, "People love you here. You know that?" But she didn't know how much I needed to hear that at that point, which is really heavy for me. I'll never forget it. I've never told her that. Oh, well. Man, anytime you get a little something from people, especially in a tear-your-ass-out city like LA where nobody has any fucking time for you. When someone can slow it down and say something.

• 1:58:13Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:14Speaker 01

  You know, I try, I, I, I saw this actor once in my grocery store that I go to, who made me laugh so fucking hard in this one movie. And every time I see this clip, I still laugh. And I'm, I am kind of shy, you know, personally, but so he, he was walking by, he was walking out and I was walking in. And I go, "Oh, that's that guy." And I did not stop to. Just let him know how great I thought he was in this film and I always kind of regret it. You know what I mean? So as hard as it is, and sometimes I still don't. If I see someone that has done something in, in, you know, in any way, it doesn't have to be in show business or anything like that. I'll try, you know, try and say, hey, that's, that's really good. You know what I mean?

• 1:59:01Speaker 01

  Because to get that from someone can mean a lot, you know?

• 1:59:07Lex Fridman?

  At a certain time in life when you need it.

• 1:59:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:10Lex Fridman?

  It can make a big difference. I mean, I, sorry to, uh, take it back to my new girlfriend, the waitress.

• 1:59:17Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:59:17Lex Fridman?

  But she, there's something about her saying sweetheart.

• 1:59:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:21Lex Fridman?

  I was in a, it was a pretty low place for some reason mentally and it's just that ki- that basic human kindness was nice.

• 1:59:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear you. I was at a restaurant in, uh, New York recently. And I was shooting something and my fiance was able to fly in for a week and, uh, but she was back at the hotel. And it's like, I felt like I was cheating on her because there was this nice waitress at this barbecue place I went to. And, uh, first of all, my fiance would not like me eating any greasy, sugary barbecue. So I felt like I was cheating on her.

• 1:59:51Lex Fridman?

  We'll edit this out and put delicious vegan food over it.

• 1:59:55Speaker 01

  But the waitress was one of these, you know, she was this, this, the kind of server who's like, hey hun, you think, hey sweetie, like blah, blah, blah. But like, so chill and at ease in the middle of a part of New York that's really, you know, kind of fucking pretentious and, you know, and everybody, but sweet people, fucking way better people than we got here. But, uh, you know, I, uh, I know that, but you know, it's part of New York and whatever. I'm there working and people, I'm like, you know, I've been trying to impress one another and, uh, she was, she even had some sort of an accent that was not. Didn't feel like an Atlantic American accent. Uh, yeah, though those, yeah, servers that say sweetheart and hun.

• 2:00:38Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:39Speaker 01

  That's what we need from AI. We need that, that Jetson server.

• 2:00:43Lex Fridman?

  Every once in a while just calls you sweetheart.

• 2:00:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:46Lex Fridman?

  What comforts you on bad days?

• 2:00:49Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 2:00:49Lex Fridman?

  Is there little sources of comfort? Small things they do that kind of make you feel good, like for Bobby, that'd be a little Skyrim. Little stroll through Skyrim.

• 2:01:01Speaker 01

  Well, I, I've been.

• 2:01:03Lex Fridman?

  A line of coke or what?

• 2:01:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, a line, a line of, I dilute some coke into whiskey in the morning, like Stevie Ray Vaughan. And then I snort whiskey.

• 2:01:10Lex Fridman?

  I didn't know that.

• 2:01:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:01:11Lex Fridman?

  Oh, gosh. Interesting.

• 2:01:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, he didn't last too long. Weird. Um.

• 2:01:15Lex Fridman?

  Well, his music will last forever.

• 2:01:16Speaker 01

  Hey, see, there you go. For me, if I, I'm kind of a homebody. So if I, the, the point at which I smoke just a little bit of pot and then go like, lay down on the couch and, and perhaps if my fiance is kind of nodding off, or she's just like looking at her phone and I sneakily turn on some wrestling. Okay. Cause I grew up watching wrestling and that stuff, it's the Skyrim effect. I mean, you want to talk about a complete escape. This stuff makes no sense in the world. It's an art form that is so uniquely weird,

• 2:01:56Speaker 01

  but at the same time, so everyone, it, when, when it's good, everyone is invested in the illusion, even the audience. They cheer the good guys, they boo the bad guys. So if I'm like that, and then I got our two cute little dogs there and I'm annoying my little dog Lulio and you know, trying to kiss him right on the fucking mouth. And I've had a little bit of pot and the dog's like, stop, pot's not good for me. Um, of course, don't ever blow pot into your dog's face. That's, that's a small comfort. I guess that's a handful of things.

• 2:02:28Lex Fridman?

  No, that moment painted, that was like a little painting that.

• 2:02:31Speaker 01

  What about you?

• 2:02:37Lex Fridman?

  You're not supposed to do this.

• 2:02:38Speaker 01

  Well.

• 2:02:39Lex Fridman?

  You're not supposed to do this.

• 2:02:41Speaker 01

  It's a good question.

• 2:02:42Lex Fridman?

  Yeah, it's a tough question.

• 2:02:47Lex Fridman?

  I would say.

• 2:02:50Lex Fridman?

  I would say programming robots. There's bringing to life, actually, programming at all. And so I don't know if you're how familiar you are with programming. But you write some text on a page, right? On a screen and it's brought to life like it does something. And that's kind of, that's a really tiny version of maybe having a child. Like you, you created something that is now living.

• 2:03:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:21Lex Fridman?

  In some smaller, big way with embodied robots that are legged robots. That's especially clear. And for some reason, that's a source of comfort for me. That, that, the, the power of programming, but also the elegance of programming, just the whole thing. It's a, it's a source. Yeah, it's a source of happiness. There's so many things I've been very blessed with enjoying anything. Like that's part of the struggle I have in life is that the simple stuff is a source of a lot of happiness for me, which leads to a lot of laziness. So I have to like, give myself artificial deadlines. I have to be freaking out on purpose in order to be productive in this world at all.

• 2:04:03Speaker 01

  You seem like an extremely dutiful, busy guy.

• 2:04:06Lex Fridman?

  No.

• 2:04:07Speaker 01

  No?

• 2:04:07Lex Fridman?

  I am, but because I'm constantly creating artificial stress and deadlines and all that kind of stuff. Otherwise, I would just sit there looking at a tree happy. I'm truly happy with everything.

• 2:04:21Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 2:04:22Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:23Speaker 01

  Gee whiz. That's not.

• 2:04:25Lex Fridman?

  Well, that's the line of coke in the, in the, in the whiskey in the morning. That's, that, that's the thing that does.

• 2:04:31Speaker 01

  You'd be raving on. Breakfast shake.

• 2:04:33Lex Fridman?

  By the way, one of my most favorite guitars. I play guitar too. That's the source of comfort.

• 2:04:37Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, I have seen you play some guitar. That's awesome.

• 2:04:39Lex Fridman?

  Who's the greatest wrestler of all time?

• 2:04:41Speaker 01

  Greatest in-ring performer of all time is Bret the Hitman Hart.

• 2:04:45Lex Fridman?

  What's the difference in-ring versus?

• 2:04:46Speaker 01

  Well, there's, you know, there's many facets to the art form. A lot of people are great on the mic, but they're not so great once they get in the ring. A lot of people have all the, uh, the showmanship and stuff, but then they're not necessarily, it's a wonderful package, but then they get to the ring or they open their mouth and there's nothing going on.

• 2:05:04Lex Fridman?

  So who's the greatest in-ring performer?

• 2:05:06Speaker 01

  I think the greatest in-ring is Bret Hart. I don't think there's anyone better than, than Bret the Hitman Hart.

• 2:05:13Lex Fridman?

  What makes him so good?

• 2:05:15Speaker 01

  Well, he-

• 2:05:16Lex Fridman?

  I think I had an action figure of him, of him in Russia and we didn't know what the hell that was.

• 2:05:21Speaker 01

  Sure. Yeah. It was just a guy in pink tights. Uh, he, everything makes sense. Every single thing is rooted in the thing that just happened and everything that he does is to set up what he's going to do. They call it, and I'm just a wrestling nerd, but the wrestlers, I guess, call it ring psychology. The things that you have to do to, to make it seem like you're, you're suffering or you're coming from behind or whatever. And then also just the physicality of it. He does it at a, he would do it at a 100 miles an hour and never hurt anybody. Uh, although, you know, I, I also love, uh, the every, you know, the greatest wrestler of all time, everyone says, and they're, they're right, is Ric Flair, nature boy Ric Flair.

• 2:06:04Lex Fridman?

  Everyone says this?

• 2:06:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think if you know what you're talking about, um, cause he's the best on the mic. He's the, he, he's also incredible in the ring. And then for me, the sentimental favorite, which we've actually on Dudesy Chad had sort of a, Charlie Rose-esque interview with me about this, my fascination with Hulk Hogan. Because to me, just he was Superman. I was a little kid and I saw him and that's imprinted. But yeah, see this is like asking me who my favorite child is.

• 2:06:32Lex Fridman?

  Right. So, uh-

• 2:06:34Speaker 01

  The Rock, when The Rock was, I mean, The Rock's The Rock.

• 2:06:37Lex Fridman?

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Hulk Hogan is, um-

• 2:06:42Lex Fridman?

  He's the weirdest one, right? For me, from the outside.

• 2:06:45Speaker 01

  Super weird.

• 2:06:46Lex Fridman?

  That, I don't know what, what that is exactly. It's.

• 2:06:50Speaker 01

  Everything's weird about him.

• 2:06:51Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:52Speaker 01

  He's got the bald head, like he would proudly have this bald head with long hair, the handlebar mustache in this ketchup and mustard, you know, tights, which he says, he credits McDonald's with the tights.

• 2:07:05Lex Fridman?

  He literally does?

• 2:07:06Speaker 01

  He says that the, the red and yellow came from Angelo Poffo, who's Randy Macho Man Savage and Lanny Poffo's dad, who was a wrestler and, and a promoter. He said that he saw him wearing yellow and he, you know, he's a Tampa guy. So he had that brown skin and the, the hair and everything. So he's like, oh, that's what I want to do. And also the brand recognition of like, well, I should do it like McDonald's. Literally. And he's a big, you know, swollen muscular guy with tanned brown skin screaming at me to eat my vitamins and stuff when I'm eight years old. That was extremely, uh, yeah, he's like Superman. I, but I know there's a person behind that guy.

• 2:07:47Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:47Speaker 01

  You know?

• 2:07:47Lex Fridman?

  What do you mean?

• 2:07:48Speaker 01

  Well, he's, he's Terry Bollea, the dude who, you know, does whatever the fuck he does with his life. You know what I mean?

• 2:07:56Lex Fridman?

  Yeah. Complicated life.

• 2:07:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess. To be, to be him. Yeah.

• 2:08:01Lex Fridman?

  Maybe you should change the, the dude's, the colors to, to yellow, right?

• 2:08:05Speaker 01

  Red and yellow.

• 2:08:06Lex Fridman?

  It's currently orange and, um, boy, sky blue.

• 2:08:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's like a nice, uh, sky blue.

• 2:08:13Lex Fridman?

  What advice? Since you're wearing a suit, I feel like you're qualified to give advice. What advice would you give to young people? High school, college about how to have a career they can be proud of? Or how to have a life they can be proud of?

• 2:08:28Speaker 01

  I mean, you have to listen to your gut all the time. That's the only, that's the compass that we have is listening to your gut.

• 2:08:36Lex Fridman?

  What did your gut tell you? This is, is that, was that originally the dream of being an actor?

• 2:08:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, for me.

• 2:08:42Lex Fridman?

  Did your parents support that at all?

• 2:08:45Speaker 01

  I had the advantage of having parents who were. Immigrants, so they didn't really know a lot about what you.

• 2:08:53Lex Fridman?

  So you just made shit up? You just made shit up?

• 2:08:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course I'm studying and I'm skipping school to go do auditions and stuff. No, I, I just kind of feel like, you know, and I know it was different for my older siblings because my parents had just shown up in Canada. I was born like 10 years later.

• 2:09:11Speaker 01

  You can get away with some things and you can actually, you know, I think my parents, they wanted us to, they didn't have a whole lot to tell us about what to do.

• 2:09:23Speaker 01

  They weren't gonna do that with us because they're in this brand new world and there's all these possibilities. And, but there was a, a, there was something that they, I, I feel like they had to do, which was tell us to do what we love. If you love doing it, do it. And I feel like that's really served me. And what I would tell young people is if you can find something you love, and nowadays with the internet and finding other people that, you know, it's not like you need to find a lot of people anymore. You just need to find the people that dig what you dig. And if you can make a career out of doing something that you love, it's been said, it's, it's a good thing, you know?

• 2:10:07Lex Fridman?

  How long did you, did it take you to figure out that you really love acting? You know, because sometimes you have a dream and then you meet, the dream meets reality, right?

• 2:10:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:18Lex Fridman?

  And then the reality might be much less pleasant and much darker than the dream.

• 2:10:22Speaker 01

  Well, the reality is less pleasant, you know? And, and there are things that happen during an experience of shooting something that, that you could take or leave, right? But the, the, you know, the, the part where you're on set and you've, you know, you've rehearsed for a minute or whatever, at least you know where you're supposed to stand and you know, all your lines show up, knowing everything, knowing what you're gonna do and what you aim to do. And tho- those moments make it all worth it when you're, you know, not to sound like a douchebag, but between act, you know, action and cut, that's the stuff that is. That that makes me that has me continuing to do do what I do aside from the fact that it's

• 2:11:06Speaker 01

  like, I don't know how to do anything else.

• 2:11:09Lex Fridman?

  You think you'll ever do like a dramatic, like a like a mob movie?

• 2:11:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, like the one of the inside game I was just talking about, this is other movie I just did, it was a little while ago called American Woman, that was very heavy. And I love doing dramatic work. I love it. I love it. Yeah, and I played that in inside game. It was kind of a, you know, it was a, there was a mob element and the fellow was, well, you know, the stories here or there with regard to how deep into the, but well, he was a bookie. He was just running money, you know, doing, he was making a lot of money for a lot of people and he figured out how to, you know, cook it with this dude who was an NBA ref and and it's a very interesting documentary, the thing that they're just

• 2:11:54Speaker 01

  untold, under the Untold series, they cover it. But getting to play that guy, that was a, that was a, that was a gas for me because he's like a, he was a, you know, there was a lot of unsavory stuff and he's definitely the guy, the character in the movie, who is the wild card and and and you don't want to necessarily mess with him. And I got to by this fellow who is a real guy, speaking to him, it was just bizarre to hear, like I said to him, he was a little concerned about this and that, like, hey, you know, you say whatever the fuck you want in your movie. I got my book and I got this other fucking deal. But he goes, you know, I didn't do this and I didn't do that. And I'm like, yeah, all right, I got you. And he goes, I'm telling you, I'm talking to you one on

• 2:12:39Speaker 01

  one. I did not do this. I did, okay? I'm just fucking tell you, do whatever the fuck you want with your movie, but this is what's up. And I said, you ever seen Goodfellas? He's like, yeah, I fucking love that movie. Because he, like I said, he did some unsavory shit. And I go, you remember the scene where? Where, you know, the guy, the neighbor, Lorraine Barco's neighbor was, you know, made her uncomfortable and was touching on her and she, she goes to Ray Liotta. And he goes, where the fuck does this guy live? And then he go, and remember, and he walks across the street and pistol whips the dude. You touch her again, you're dead. You hear me?

• 2:13:12Lex Fridman?

  Good scene.

• 2:13:12Speaker 01

  Don't shoot. Fucking great scene. He goes, I love that scene. I go, that's you. So you're doing shit that we know is terrible, but we love you. He goes, all right, I got it. And then I said, there's this one scene, I explained the scene to him where the, one of the mobsters, uh, tough guys was in the window of the car. And Jimmy, my character is very coked up at the time and he's hemorrhaging money here and there and making bad bets because he's getting sloppy. And this guy wants to bug him about some Jets Giants bet or something. I'm like, telling you fucking asshole, don't fucking do it. He's like, yeah, well, the fucking Giants. And in the scene, Jimmy, my character grabs him by the, by the lapels and just smashes his face.

• 2:13:52Speaker 01

  The, the, the, the roof of the car. And I, I say this to, to Jimmy and he goes, oh yeah, I would have done that. That's not a fucking big deal.

• 2:14:01Lex Fridman?

  I, I wonder also the interaction. I wonder what the filming of, um, probably my favorite gambling movie is, um, Casino with, with Joe Pesci and De Niro. Like when they're out in the desert yelling at each other. I wonder how many takes that is like, cause they, I, I don't, I don't know how scripted that is. I mean, it probably is a little bit, but like, I, I, I don't think you can script the performance that Joe Pesci does.

• 2:14:27Speaker 01

  Don't make a fuck out of me, Ace.

• 2:14:28Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:29Speaker 01

  Like, I fucking brought you here.

• 2:14:32Lex Fridman?

  Yeah. He's just like pointing at the, that, that, that energy and they're standing there and

• 2:14:38Speaker 01

  Their friendship.

• 2:14:39Lex Fridman?

  And then De Niro is like, like that, that whole thing. And then in the pet, yeah, like that, that energy, what is that? I mean, they must, they somehow find it together.

• 2:14:50Speaker 01

  You could tell me that that was one take and I'd believe you. You could tell me that that was seven takes and I would believe.

• 2:14:55Lex Fridman?

  I bet you all the takes had that energy. Like they were playing with it, right? They were, they're, they're playing with that, the, the, this, yeah. I mean, they, they took on a real. Personality in those scenes and really carried them forward. I mean, it's just a brilliant, brilliant performance. Doesn't get like comedies, like mob movies probably don't get enough credit either. Because it's seen as like.

• 2:15:18Speaker 01

  Mob movies don't get enough credit?

• 2:15:20Lex Fridman?

  Not in the Oscars, I mean like.

• 2:15:21Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, cuz it seems like a trope. It's like given a Western, uh, it's gotta be a hell of a Western or whatever cuz it's like an old Hollywood trope. Yeah, no, I, that scene is so great cuz they're never, they're at the height of their friendship in a way. And they're also pretty much about to let go of it and become enemies. And both things are happening at the same time. And, and Pesci drives them out to the desert. And if I remember correctly, De Niro's character, Ace Rothstein or Rothschild, he says, I, I gave myself 50 50 whether I'm coming back.

• 2:15:56Lex Fridman?

  Yeah, it's such a good scene. It's uh, usually my prospects of coming back from the desert would be 90 to 10 or something like that. But now it's this time I wasn't sure. And there's the car driving really fast. And then Joe Pesci's like, you motherfucker, you like whatever he was doing. A Jew, of course, there's antisemitism.

• 2:16:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:16:16Lex Fridman?

  Or not, between friends, who gives a shit? All that kinda stuff. Yeah, I mean, brilliant, brilliant performances. So yeah, I, I can understand why you love the art and putting it all out there and.

• 2:16:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's fun. It's fun. And it's still fun. It's still crazy fun. If I go a while without getting a gig, you know, if I go a minute, then I end up and I work on something. I'm like, it is, it's like, oh, I've been thirsty for this. Like, I actually am really so happy, even if it's something where it's like, you know, the, the, the things where this was a pain in the ass and that or whatever, you're on the road doing something and, you know, anything, whatever, you lost your luggage or whatever the heck you've got going on in your day to day life uh, that everyone brings uh, to work and tries to let go of. Once we're doing the scene, oh, man, it's the best.

• 2:17:10Lex Fridman?

  But, you know, that said, you're a great actor, but I just think I speak for a lot of people that you're also, there's a charisma to you that's great to reveal in raw form in different podcasts.

• 2:17:23Speaker 01

  Oh, cheers, man.

• 2:17:24Lex Fridman?

  In Dude Z, 10 Minute Pod, just as a guest on podcasts, it's always really fun to watch you.

• 2:17:29Speaker 01

  Cheers.

• 2:17:30Lex Fridman?

  The way you have fun, the way you think, the raw, the raw Will Sasso, which is a nice compliment to your kind of acting.

• 2:17:38Speaker 01

  That's really sweet. Yeah, cheers. Well, you know, look, you said, you know.

• 2:17:45Lex Fridman?

  You're making that face.

• 2:17:46Speaker 01

  I'm making that face. I'm making that after the take face. No, I love doing stuff off the cuff. That's kind of you to say. And I dig, I really do dig doing stuff in front of an audience because I love seeing, I don't give it to myself very often. If I'm doing, even if I'm, you know, I've done a bunch of multi-camera sitcoms and stuff. Mad TV was shot in front of a live studio audience.

• 2:18:08Lex Fridman?

  You like that energy?

• 2:18:09Speaker 01

  I love it, but I can only hear them. You can't see them because of the lights like it is in a lot of performances. And I would imagine with stand-up, it's, you know, you see the first couple of rows. I've done, I do this character that does stand-up and I used to take him out and do things with him and do little bits here and there. I haven't done it in like four or five years.

• 2:18:31Lex Fridman?

  I think, did Bobby say that character opened up for Bobby?

• 2:18:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, but he said, I have to do it as myself, too. I think in that podcast, he's like, okay, you're going to come with me and open for me and Brea, but you have to do it as yourself.

• 2:18:43Lex Fridman?

  Did that ever happen?

• 2:18:45Speaker 01

  It did. And I did the character, you know, who's a character I came up with on 10 Minute Podcast. He's just this comedian, right? He calls himself an open mic veteran. You know, he's been doing open mics forever. And so I did it at the opening up for Bobby and he's like, you have to do some of it as yourself. So I just kind of did this bit where I would do some of his jokes and then I would take, Leon, silly, I got a fucking wig on and I take the wig off and I go, and as myself, I start explaining it. Hello, my name is Will. See, the reason that it's funny is because. Arnold Schwarzenegger is always, he's in these movies and he's got the thick Austrian accent, but he's like, yeah, my name is Ben Williams. I'm a, I'm a cop from Colorado. No, you're not.

• 2:19:29Speaker 01

  And it doesn't make sense as the comedian character that I'm doing, cause that character doesn't do impersonations. Okay, carrying on. And then I put the wig back on and go back into this dumb thing. Yeah. And I don't think it was very good, but Bobby required it in order for me to open for him. He's like, you're not fucking doing it. So I'm not going to get up on stage and not do, we agreed, I'll do it. But having been up there just in, you know, whatever, I've done it like a dozen fucking times. Not a bunch of times, right? Like nothing. And you know, these comedians that go up every night, sometimes two times a night, it's, I do, I will say, I love performing in front of people when I get the chance,

• 2:20:12Speaker 01

  but it's, it's a, it's a specific thing that, that, that I, I just, I just, I don't know. I gotta go back to this. It's like the providing value, you know? I think great stand-ups are fucking incredible. I'll, I'll go, you know, when I've gone and watched stand-up, you know, there's your friend you're going to see, but then there's this other person who really speaks to you. You know what I mean? And if you like one comedian a night, that's a lot. Cause a, a comedy club is like a fucking crazy restaurant where there's no menu. And it's like, what would you like? There's nothing else like that. There's like, you don't go to like a, like music place.

• 2:20:55Speaker 01

  What do we got here? We got Christian metal and there's some world music and then there's a reggae thing. And it's all rammed in together. Or you don't go to a restaurant, I'd love a nice steak. Cool. First, here's a bowl of Fruit Loops and then, then we got you a crudité. And then this is our sushi tower. Well, what about the steak? Oh, the steak's coming. And then blah, blah, blah. Oh no, the steak got bumped. So there's no steak, but here's a fucking shitty store-bought cheesecake. Yeah. You know, and that's what comedians are up against when they go into a place. And it's like, I don't pair well with the poached salmon. You know, I'm chicken fingers. I already, I already am chicken fingers. So, you know, these great comedians that are able to go up on a night where poached salmon goes up.

• 2:21:39Speaker 01

  And then it's like, fuck, I'm, you are also spicy. I got some kick to me. For me.

• 2:21:45Lex Fridman?

  Even going to open mics, it could be a wonderful escape.

• 2:21:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21:49Lex Fridman?

  I mean, just laughing, laughing together with others. It can make you, I don't know, it just feels really good.

• 2:21:55Speaker 01

  When we've done like, you know, like, and I hope to do it with Doodzy, but like live podcasts are fun in front of groups of people. And, you know, you talk to them afterwards and, and take some pictures and man, they are, ah, they forgot what the fuck they got going on.

• 2:22:10Lex Fridman?

  Yep.

• 2:22:10Speaker 01

  And a lot of them got to go back to work the next day. It's a Wednesday or Thursday, you know? No, it's, it's, it's a lot of value. I'm fortunate enough to be busy doing my own bullshit.

• 2:22:20Lex Fridman?

  What's the meaning of life, Wasasal?

• 2:22:23Speaker 01

  Uh, what is the?

• 2:22:24Lex Fridman?

  Why? Why are we here? Why? Why? Why?

• 2:22:27Speaker 01

  Was it, uh, the meaning of life wasn't, didn't they explain it at the end of meaning of life? I think it was Michael Palin that said, uh, try to get a walk in. Be nice to neighbors, uh, eat enough fiber. Wasn't that the?

• 2:22:39Lex Fridman?

  Fiber? Fiber is part of it?

• 2:22:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's, I think it's.

• 2:22:41Lex Fridman?

  Nutrition?

• 2:22:42Speaker 01

  Have a bowl of bran in the morning and, uh, don't take yourself too seriously.

• 2:22:48Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:48Speaker 01

  Well, no one gets out alive, I think is the.

• 2:22:50Lex Fridman?

  Herman Hesse, one of my favorite writers, he's a Nobel Prize winner, um, in, in, in a book called Steppenwolf. Says, learn what is to be taken seriously and laugh at the rest.

• 2:23:01Speaker 01

  Oh, that's awesome.

• 2:23:02Lex Fridman?

  What, what's the percentage distribution on that? So how much of life should you take seriously? And then how much do you just laugh at?

• 2:23:10Speaker 01

  Oh, man. If you can laugh at everything, you're, you're winning.

• 2:23:13Lex Fridman?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:13Speaker 01

  Uh, but that's almost impossible. I think that there's, there's, uh, and also could be quite irresponsible to do that. I take things, I take a lot of things way too seriously. I know that. Uh, I do, I do, I really do.

• 2:23:30Lex Fridman?

  People will be in part surprised by that, but I think that radiates from you.

• 2:23:34Speaker 01

  Really? Yeah, I do. I do. I take things way too fucking seriously sometimes, but, um. Yeah, you gotta loosen the neck up. But, uh, no, I think that's, that's really good. That's, that's really good stuff. It, it, I don't know what the percentage is to have a good life or, or, or, uh, or a happy, healthy life, but. You know, for me, the meaning of life is getting to live it as long as you hope to. That's nice. And, um, and when you're, when you lose someone or, or if perhaps you're faced with your own mortality, I think that puts that into perspective and, uh, but I, you know,

• 2:24:16Lex Fridman?

  Get lots of fiber.

• 2:24:18Speaker 01

  Get lots of fiber. Uh, be nice to everybody. And, uh, yeah, don't take things too seriously is a good, it's a good one. Our minds are fucking big, weird, big, it's a big, weird shitty fucking bucket of shit. That's trying to get you to think horrible shit about yourself all the time.

• 2:24:38Lex Fridman?

  Shitty bucket of shit.

• 2:24:40Speaker 01

  Shitty bucket of shit.

• 2:24:41Lex Fridman?

  There's a book I never read, but I read the title and it's good words to live by, which is, uh, don't sweat the small stuff and it's all small stuff. That's another way.

• 2:24:51Speaker 01

  Was that Dr. Phil? Wasn't Dr. Phil with?

• 2:24:54Lex Fridman?

  I don't know, but I think the conclusion is also has fiber as part of it. I, I think it all, that all ties it together. And in the end, of course, just put love out there in the world. I think that's a pretty good way.

• 2:25:08Speaker 01

  What, what would you say is the meaning of life? Put love out in the world?

• 2:25:12Lex Fridman?

  I would say love. Yeah.

• 2:25:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25:14Lex Fridman?

  Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a long conversation on what that really means. Uh, but I'm sure robots are involved. Yeah.

• 2:25:21Speaker 01

  Well, let me tell you, I feel a little safer knowing that someone who has a hand in bringing these robots to the masses, as you do, has that opinion of, of love and how important it is. I think that's great because, uh, otherwise it's going to be that, uh, fucking scene from T2 where, uh, Linda Hamilton's holding on to the, the, the fence and getting all of her flesh blown off of her skeleton before the rest of her is, is wiped away. Cause this Skynet shit. Anyway, I'm just terrified of Doodzy all the time. That's why I think that they will.

• 2:25:55Lex Fridman?

  Doodzy in the wrong hands can do a lot of damage.

• 2:25:58Speaker 01

  That's why Chad and I need to can do our best to control it.

• 2:26:02Lex Fridman?

  Need to travel back in time and murder Chad. I think.

• 2:26:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, yeah.

• 2:26:08Lex Fridman?

  That's the only way.

• 2:26:09Speaker 01

  It's been said.

• 2:26:10Lex Fridman?

  I don't know why you need to travel back in time.

• 2:26:12Speaker 01

  Well.

• 2:26:12Lex Fridman?

  You could just murder him today, but I think I'll be very suspicious.

• 2:26:17Speaker 01

  My nefarious plans for Chad involve going back to tomorrow and planning for yesterday. And then, and hopefully Dudesy will give me the answer there with what, what it is to do with Chad's frozen body. If I gotta drive it out to, if I gotta take my, you know, if I gotta get, get ahold of like a, one of those Tesla mom vans and shove my garage freezer in it and plug it in and shove Chad in there, drive out to Arizona and deliver him under a mountain or wherever the fuck this place is. And say, here's this dog tag. What does this get me? And I'm like, ah, it's gonna be 300 bucks. Do you have, do you take Amex? No. And I'll be like, ah, shit. And I'll just dump him somewhere, breaking bad stuff.

• 2:26:59Lex Fridman?

  Well, I would like to thank you and the, what is it? The Canadian International Agency Apparel.

• 2:27:07Speaker 01

  Canadian International Apparel.

• 2:27:09Lex Fridman?

  I can't wait for the sneakers from Dudesy. I can't wait for all the, all the podcasts that AI can, and all the trouble it can get you in. So I'm a huge fan of yours. It's a huge honor that you would talk with me today. Well, this has been amazing.

• 2:27:26Speaker 01

  Cheers, pal. Likewise. And I'm happy to be here, man. Cheers.

• 2:27:29Lex Fridman?

  Bam.

• 2:27:30Speaker 01

  Oh, that was three hours, dude. Holy fuck, what?

• 2:27:34Lex Fridman?

  Thanks for listening to this conversation with Will Sasso. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now let me leave you with some words from John Candy, one of Will's favorite actors. I think I may have become an actor to hide from myself. You can escape into a character.

• 2:27:56Lex Fridman?

  Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.