781 Topher Grace: Make Your Opportunity and Multiply It

LEARN TO EMBRACE FAILURE. We often hold onto words. When someone gives us negative feedback, we can let it consume our minds. It’s not healthy. You can’t stop yourself from being offended by what someone says. But you can listen and be open to learning. Every time you mess up you’re making yourself better. On today’s episode of The School of Greatness, I talk about making the most of opportunities and learning how to listen with one of the most successful actors of our time: Topher Grace. Topher Grace is known for playing Eric Forman in the hit sitcom That 70’s Show, Venom in Sam Raimi's film Spider-Man 3, and many more. He is also the host of a new podcast called Minor Adventures with Topher Grace. As an actor, Topher constantly receives feedback on his work. While he hasn’t always agreed and his ego can sometimes get in the way, he has learned to work collaboratively. Topher started working at a very young age, but he has been able to sustain his career by constantly evolving. So get ready to learn how Topher Grace made the most of sudden fame on Episode 781. Some Questions I Ask: What was the greatest lesson you learned in the first season of That 70’s Show? (17:30) How can someone handle getting a great opportunity with grace? (21:00) Who has been the most brilliant person you’ve worked with? (27:00) What is life like as a father being an actor? (37:00) What’s the greatest challenge being married with a new child? (44:00) In This Episode You Will Learn: How Topher landed his role on That 70’s Show (3:00) The best way to handle criticism (23:00) Topher’s experience playing a white supremacist in BLacKkKlansman (32:00) How Topher views failure (52:30) Why it’s better to try even if it doesn’t work out (58:00) Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 781 with Topher Grace.

• 0:06Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:31Lewis Howes?

  William Shakespeare said, "This above all, to thine own self be true." Welcome to this episode. We've got Topher Grace in the house. I just went on his show that he launched, and it was an incredible adventure. And so we're bringing him on to share his story. And for those that don't know who Topher is, he became famous for That 70's Show. He played Eric Foreman in the Fox sitcom That 70's Show, which took over the TV world for a number of seasons. Then he went on to play in Spider-Man 3. He was in many other movies as well. He was in Interstellar. And recently, in Spike Lee's film Black Klansman, which if you haven't seen that,

• 1:16Lewis Howes?

  extremely powerful and inspiring as well. His other roles, he's been in Traffic, Mona Lisa's Smile, Valentine's Day, Take Me Home Tonight, The Big Wedding, War Machine, and Under the Silver Lake. Lots of other stuff. This guy's been around for a while now, doing some incredible work. And in this interview, we talk about the biggest lessons Topher learned on That 70's Show. What it was like being a young kid, rising to fame so quickly with his first acting job. Pretty crazy. And how he got that job. Talk about how his parents kept him grounded, being young and successful when everyone wanted a piece of them. The power of listening on and off set. When he learned to actually listen deeper

• 1:58Lewis Howes?

  and not get into his head too much. And we discuss what Topher is still insecure about after over a decade in TV and the film industry. Powerful interview. Make sure to share with your friends. Let me know what you think over on Instagram @lewishouse. And as always, you can watch the full video interview over on youtube.com/lewishouse as well. Big thank you to our sponsors, and I'm excited about today's episode with the one and only Topher Grace.

• 2:31Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back to the School of Greatness Podcast. We've got the legendary Topher Grace in the house, man. Good to see you, man.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  So good to see you, man.

• 2:37Lewis Howes?

  Doing well?

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, really well. And I'm sure you're about to say this, but we had an incredible experience together. So it's good to see you post that experience.

• 2:46Lewis Howes?

  Yes, we had an amazing journey, an adventure, a minor adventure.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  A minor, not a big, not a big adventure.

• 2:51Lewis Howes?

  A minor adventure.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  Minor adventure, yeah.

• 2:52Lewis Howes?

  Topher's got a new podcast out called Minor Adventures. And that's what it's called, right? Minor Adventures.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, and uh...

• 3:00Lewis Howes?

  You create a magical experience for people.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know if this is what you want to go into right off the bat, but it's... I didn't know you then.

• 3:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, we just met like two minutes before we did this.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  It was like going on some date or something and you'd been...

• 3:12Lewis Howes?

  Sam asked me to do this thing. He's like, "Hey, I'm launching this new thing. I don't know if it's gonna work or not. It could be like the most incredible thing or a bust."

• 3:19Speaker 01

  And boy, did it work. Did you know Matt Nathanson is covering that song?

• 3:24Lewis Howes?

  Wait a minute, what?

• 3:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay, so every episode...

• 3:27Lewis Howes?

  So tell them what happens.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  Every episode, we'd only done it twice before when you came on. And I was so thrilled to have you, you know, knowing of you, but not knowing you. That's kind of one of the fun things about having a podcast. And every guest who comes in, like you, has no idea what they're gonna do. I mean, you can vouch for that. You had no idea what you were gonna do that day. I know you didn't, because the look on your face when we announced what we were gonna do was kind of like, "What?" So we talked for about 10 minutes. And then Sam announces what adventure we're gonna do. And it's been, you know, we hooked someone up to lie detector tests. We did Reiki. We did telemarketing on one of them. It was hilarious.

• 4:03Lewis Howes?

  You made phone calls, like tele...

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, we did beatboxing with Chrissy Metz. It was like, as we try to pair people with things you might not think about. And with you, we got the best pop songwriter in the world. She written for like Beyonce and a lot of great artists. And she came in and we wrote a song. And it was bad at first.

• 4:22Lewis Howes?

  And then she made it good.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  And then she made it good. You helped. I mean, actually, you came up with what the whole song was kind of gonna be about. And then there was this moment, I just heard it. So like, you're at a disadvantage because you haven't heard it yet, but... She, um, we found it, right? It was like this magical moment where all of a sudden it was a real song. And then they liked it so much that they had Matt Nathanson, who I'm a huge fan of. You, I can't believe I haven't heard it yet. Should have brought it on the show.

• 4:46Lewis Howes?

  Who is this guy?

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Matt Nathanson is a pop song singer and writer.

• 4:51Lewis Howes?

  I'm sure I've heard his stuff.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Oh, you've heard his stuff. I mean, due to rights issues, I'm sure I can't sing it right now. But, but soon you'll know his number one hit single.

• 5:00Lewis Howes?

  What's the name of it?

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Wait, what? I can't remember it. Even If I Fall.

• 5:03Lewis Howes?

  Even If I Fall.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Which sounds like a Lewis Howes title for a song.

• 5:07Lewis Howes?

  There you go, there you go.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  But you really were so game.

• 5:09Lewis Howes?

  Even If I Fall, we were talking about like overcoming challenges and adversity in your life.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Well, first, you and I were talking about it. And then when she came in the room, she wanted something that was personal. And so we kind of referenced what we had been talking about. And then I just heard it. Like you come, there's a moment where you kind of come up with a really important part of it. And then I came up with what rhymed and she was basically doing all of it. Let's be honest. I mean, she's an amazing songwriter.

• 5:33Lewis Howes?

  We're just throwing that idea.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  Grabbing them and making them a real thing. And then it got good. Like we had that moment where we all went, oh. And I, I'm so glad, I'm so glad I'm doing a podcast so you can capture moments like that. And you'll love it when you hear it. It's like, it's really fun, yeah.

• 5:50Lewis Howes?

  So on the episode, you play it.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Well, yes, yeah. The end of the, you have to go through the whole thing. So you hear us kind of find it. Then she plays a, kind of a loose version of it at the end. And then they wrote a whole thing and this guy recorded a, I mean, I hope in two weeks, this is number one on the Billboard. I remember we gave up our songwriting.

• 6:12Lewis Howes?

  Did we? I thought we split it four ways. I thought we split the credits.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  I'll just say this on air here. We, we felt so guilty.

• 6:20Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  That we said, if you get someone to record it, like, please, I mean, give them all the money. But we're going to really regret that.

• 6:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I want a million dollars soon. So the song is good. It's actually really good.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Dude, I don't think I, well, you know, because I have these pauses where I then haven't heard the show for a while and we're recording new shows. So when it... Yeah, when I heard it, I thought it was good when she was singing it kind of acoustic. And then when I heard, dude, I wish I could just, I should have brought it today and just played it. For you, I would love to have watched your face, like, listen, yeah.

• 6:51Lewis Howes?

  We'll listen to it.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:52Lewis Howes?

  So, we did this whole experience, we did like a mini interview. I was actually interviewing you a lot on the episode.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Well, that was the annoying thing, Louis, is that I am three episodes into my own podcast.

• 7:03Lewis Howes?

  First podcast.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  And I'm starting to talk about like where I grew up and what my difficulties were and challenges and overcoming them. And I was like, oh my God, I've been hypnotized. All right, Louis, I mean, I've heard you do this to people, but you did it to me.

• 7:13Lewis Howes?

  You did it to me, yeah.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  But I think we had the editor cut most of that out, because I remember saying in the thing, like, well, I see what you did here.

• 7:19Lewis Howes?

  Cut this out.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, you try, you're trying to turn it on me.

• 7:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it was fun though, man.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  And you were, and a lot of what you were talking about in your life was then in the song. Do you remember Sim said at the beginning, like, he said, let's make, let's write the anthem for LA. Like, there's no anthem for LA. And then we just tore him down immediately, went like, no, we want to write something that's like really, you know, real. Anthem for LA.

• 7:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, because he was thinking like New York anthem as.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I mean, it's a good idea, but worth to make money, yeah, exactly.

• 7:46Lewis Howes?

  Drake and Beyonce, so, amazing, man. Well, I'm excited for you, the show's gonna be amazing, I'm excited to hear this pop, this hit number one song. But you, you've had an incredible journey, because you kind of came into fame as a teen star. And I remember you told me, I think when we met, that you had like zero jobs before that, or maybe did like one play, or wasn't it something like small?

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Well, I never acted before, I'd worked at Suncoast Video, the Stanford Mall, worked at Dunkin' Donuts. So that was kind of the extent of my.

• 8:15Lewis Howes?

  Fifteen, sixteen, seventeen?

• 8:17Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, and, I mean, like, my mom had to drive me because I didn't have my driver's license. And then I had a really weird thing happen to me, which is, I haven't told this story in a long time, I had to tell it all to America at the beginning of when I started on 70's Show. Which is, I was in a high school play, I was, not that I'm the athlete turned entertainer that you are. I was on the varsity tennis team at the school, sporting school in New Hampshire, and I.

• 8:41Lewis Howes?

  Was what, like 300 students or something?

• 8:43Speaker 01

  I mean, not even, like, making varsity is like, you just have to be one of the 12 best people at tennis. And I sprained my ankle, and I'd had these little parts in the school play, you know, past school plays they'd done, so I tried out for the. Like for the lead and I got it. It was a big kind of scandal because I wasn't like a drama kid. Some of the drama geeks at the school said we were gonna not do the show and it won't have a Yeah, boycott it. And they got over that and then, I mean, they're still probably mad about it because these producers who were the parents of the girl who made the sets were these big time Hollywood producers. I mean, they were just like my friend Lindsay's parents.

• 9:21Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  But they called, I was going to school at USC, so I got out here to USC the next year. And I guess they'd been developing that 70's show and they called me and said, would you like to come try out for, I'd just been rejected from the film school. It's the only reason I went to USC. I've been rejected three times. So I just kind of had no idea what I was doing in my life. And I'd never auditioned for anything outside of like school plays.

• 9:44Lewis Howes?

  She did this one school play and her parents.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  My actor friends hate when I tell this story, but the head of Fox at the time, you know, I did a lot of like mini kind of audition. They said, okay, we're going to the president of Fox. This is your final audition.

• 10:00Lewis Howes?

  Well, 70's show.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  And they, so they said, bring a picture and resume because this is a real audition today. I said, like, so like, okay, wait, what do you mean? Like, what's a pic and resume? They said, oh, it's like a photo of you so they know who it is. And on the back, you have a resume of like, you know, all your jobs.

• 10:18Lewis Howes?

  Credits, yeah.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  I said, okay, cool. And I showed up.

• 10:21Lewis Howes?

  Dunkin' Donuts.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  No, no, first of all, yeah, the back was literally Dunkin' Donuts and Suncoast video and the one part I'd played in that play. And the front was a, like a, like a picture like that of me and my friends at Six Flags.

• 10:30Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  I didn't know what they meant. That it's like a headshot of like, you know. So I was, I think that they were so shocked that I got the part. Like, it was so, they were looking for a real nerdy kid. And that was what they got.

• 10:42Lewis Howes?

  And they got you.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I wasn't acting nerdy.

• 10:44Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So.

• 10:46Lewis Howes?

  You done one play, your friend who was at the school or in the play, I guess, her parents, they saw it or something?

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, they saw, I knew them. And I knew they were, they wrote Wayne's World and Tommy Boy and, you know, it was huge movies at the time. And Third Rock from the Sun, which they wrote, had just won a Golden Globe. So, we all knew they were watching the show and we thought, oh my, this is amazing. But I don't think in my wildest, I think in my wildest dreams, I would have been like a P A for them during a summer. Maybe I would have asked them after freshman year, like, hey, can, but then, um, I remember when she called, this Bonnie of Bonnie and Terry Turner, who were, you know, just, by the way, they ran Saturday Night Live at one point, like, very talented. She called me, but I didn't know it would be my friend's mom. So, I was at school and just in my dorm.

• 11:33Lewis Howes?

  At USC.

• 11:34Speaker 01

  I think I was like a little high and she said like, hey, it's Bonnie. And I was like, oh, like, did we like go out or like, who are you?

• 11:42Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  And she was like, no, uh, it's Lindsay's mom. And I was like, oh shit, I got detention. Like, I, you know, I, what did I do? I was like putting out the whatever. And then she's like, no, no, we want you to, and this before the show existed, so she had to kind of explain what the show was about. A couple of years ago, I bumped into one of the producers on it and they said, yeah, we had auditioned like a thousand kids. Like, it wasn't like they were thinking me. Yeah, they went through everyone in L A and I guess, I, I did know when I went to the audition that, that everyone was too cool. They were all professional nerds. They had like product in their hair or they had like a little bit of makeup on or something.

• 12:21Lewis Howes?

  Nerdy looking like.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, they'd be doing their lines. Yeah, like who you'd hire to play a nerd. I was actually a nerd who couldn't get laid in college like that, at that moment. But these kids were reading the script, you know, they're all reading the script in the hallway and they're kind of like, you know, Donna, I'm such a loser. And I was like, oh, I got this. Like, cause I have real experience.

• 12:40Lewis Howes?

  I am a loser.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:43Lewis Howes?

  So you did, what was it like, your audition? Were you nervous?

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Oh God, I'm more nervous than I've ever been for anything, cause I had a feeling, I mean, I just knew it would be a life changer if I got, even if it only went for 10 episodes and was canceled or something, it would be totally life changing for me. But then after I got it, I was, um, I was, I wouldn't say depressed, but I was really, like if you haven't dreamed that big, or anything near that scale, and then it just happens like that, I mean, I left the room and they said, alright, you're gonna be on after The Simpsons and before The X-Files, and you know, I was like, oh my god.

• 13:16Lewis Howes?

  How many auditions did you have to do?

• 13:18Speaker 01

  I did like, like 12 mini auditions where they just wanted to see that I could like, repeat what I'd done the last time, or come up with something new, and then this one big audition was the real one.

• 13:30Lewis Howes?

  With like some of the other cast members, or was it just you?

• 13:32Speaker 01

  No, the only person who got cast that day was Mila. Who was 14 at the time, it was like crazy, but it was, uh, it's funny, I remember everything that happened that year. And that's it. Like, I don't remember anything after it.

• 13:44Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 13:44Speaker 01

  Cause everything, my learning trajectory was so inverted that first year, it was so hard. I remember in the pilot, the the director said, "Great job on that scene, but you didn't face any of the cameras." Like, I was that new to it. I didn't know, like, how to, I didn't know anything. So, that first year was like, the most intense experience of my life, and then, and then it got easier, you know?

• 14:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course. Wow. So when there was the 12th audition, the final one, where they were like, okay, this is it, and we're gonna make our decision after this, how did they tell you?

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Oh, they came out and they said, "Hey, we're taking you to dinner, cause you got the part," and then over dinner, they were telling, I mean, I was in like a sleepwalking state, but I remember they said, "You got it," and then, the funny thing is, I went back to school, it was spring break. So I hadn't gone back to, back home, I'm from Connecticut, but I hadn't gone there because I had this audition, spring break, everyone's gone, so this dorm of like a thousand people was empty. And I just walked through it, and I had no one to tell, and

• 14:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  I told like, one Korean student who was there, cause he couldn't go home, I think he knew English, but I was like, "I'm gonna be the lead of this."

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Of a show and he was like, oh, like, I'm not even sure still to this day if he understood me. Or even if he did, like, he probably thought I was insane or something, but. And then, and then what happened is I started to have headaches. Cause I had like two months until we started working on it. And I started just feeling, don't take any, you know, I'm not asking for pity. It was just an interesting thing where I was, I knew I was very lucky, but I started. It was just a weird place to be to have never have dreamed of anything like that ever happening. And then to know you're gonna do it. And it wasn't until, I actually went home, just randomly, I went home for a week and skipped school. I was so kind of messed up about it. And then when we started working on it, on the pilot, the first day we started working, I felt better. Cause I thought, oh, this is gonna be really hard. Like, it just felt like you won the lottery and it's like you're too lucky or something, you know?

• 15:41Lewis Howes?

  Then you're like, oh, this is real work, this is 16, 20 hour days.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  It's worse for me, cause I've never memorized the line, you know, really, like, I've never done it in front of people. I didn't, I've never been on a set before. So, once I realized how hard it was gonna be, I felt better, if that makes sense.

• 15:56Lewis Howes?

  Because why? Cause you've realized it wasn't gonna be this lucky thing, you had to work for it?

• 15:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, it felt unfair and it felt a little, I don't know, like, I get why a lot of people who win the lottery have like problems.

• 16:08Lewis Howes?

  Cause they didn't work for it.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's right, yeah. I never actually really thought about it, but I think you just feel like someone gifted you something. And then, boy, did we really earn it, cause we really did it for the next seven, eight years, yeah.

• 16:21Lewis Howes?

  Seven, eight years, how many, was it eight seasons?

• 16:23Speaker 01

  It was eight seasons, 200 episodes, so it's really, it was like, I look back on it now, it was really the most beautiful thing. Doing that show, cause you're, we were the, kind of the age of the kids when it started. And then we were having these experiences at the same time that, I'm sure I know Wilmer was on here. It was the same way, like, we'd, I'd go, I was such good friends with Wilmer. We, I'd go home and sleep over at his house. And he was in high school.

• 16:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  And like, and then we'd, you know, come back or we'd go, you know, we'd almost go see a movie together. And we, we just came from working all day together. It was just a beautiful, just a great experience. And it, and that it was our first made it so sweet, you know?

• 17:00Lewis Howes?

  All of you were kind of like newbies, I guess, well, I guess maybe Ashton had done some stuff, but.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  Laura had never acted, Ashton had never acted, they'd modeled.

• 17:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  And Wilmer could barely speak English. And Mila and Danny had acted a little bit.

• 17:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What was the greatest lesson that you learned in that first season?

• 17:16Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, Louis.

• 17:17Lewis Howes?

  Where you earned.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Oh my God. It's lessons on top of lessons. I mean, I guess it was mostly teamwork stuff. I wasn't in sports, so I didn't have your understanding of. But true teamwork, not just kind of like, hey, listen to what everyone says, but like, really, like, we're in a crunch right now. Who do I pass the ball to that's gonna score? And that's, that's why I think that show did so well is because, I mean, there are a lot of reasons, but that cast really gelled fast and we all knew how to, like, this is Ashton's strength, or this is Laura's strength, that kind of thing.

• 17:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow. What would you say is the biggest lesson from the whole eight-year experience? Like, if you look back on all the seasons, all the things you've learned, what was the most important thing that you took away?

• 18:00Speaker 01

  Just the other night, I was in a tense conversation with my wife. It wasn't a fight because I was wrong, but I, I really was wrong. And I think I learned to say, I'm wrong.

• 18:17Lewis Howes?

  Over the eight seasons?

• 18:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think a lot of people don't, that's a skill that we don't, like, pay a lot of attention to, but that's another teamwork thing. And we have a kid now and like, I remember the first time, I, most of my stuff was with Laura Prepon, right? I worked with everyone, but she's amazing actress and amazing person. And she's on Orange is the New Black now, I mean, she's had incredible success. And I remember in like the fifth or sixth episode,

• 18:46Speaker 01

  we had, uh, I mean, it wasn't like a fight. It was just like, I thought we should do the joke one way, she thought another way. She's, okay, let's do it your way. In the middle of the run-through, you, you kind of like rehearsed to then run through it in front of the writers and the, and the network and stuff. I did, this is a first, it's funny, you're saying be real, but the truth is, I've never told this story before. I did what her idea of the scene was, because in the moment I was like, wait, she's right, I'm wrong. Do you know what I mean? Like, my idea of how that scene, so I did it, it was this kind of dance scene we were doing.

• 19:15Lewis Howes?

  Does she know you were gonna do her wedding?

• 19:17Speaker 01

  No, but she went with it cuz she's such a rock star. And then, I was only nineteen then, but I was like, well, I've never said this before. I kinda went to her dressing room and I was like, hey, um, you were right. There's not a lot of like, when you're a student in school, there's not a lot of times you have to. I'm sure it's better if you say I was wrong, but I don't think, there's no classes for that, you know? And a lot of your work in high school is like very individual. And certainly in the plays, I thought I was right, maybe not admitted to myself a couple of times that I was wrong. And I said to Laura, like, you were right, I'm sorry, like that kinda, and I really meant it. And she was off, she was like, sure, there's no way she remembers this, but it was amazing for me.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  And then over the seven years, it's like making that process quicker. Like, you know, immediately, like before it becomes a thing, you know what I mean? Saying, actually, you're right.

• 20:13Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  Just shaving down your ego, I guess, right?

• 20:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, not dragging it on.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:17Lewis Howes?

  How do you keep yourself grounded while you guys were just blowing up? You know, individually, as a show, as a group of, you know, kids, how did you stay? Or did you not?

• 20:25Speaker 01

  Everyone handled that pretty differently, but I, I have a great, great parents. And I had been to boarding school, so I already was in the process of going home all the time. And it was kinda the same schedule, you know, you have the summers off, you have like winter break off. So I had a very real place, they were in the same house since I was born. So it always felt like I could go out to the real world and then kinda come back in. And they're, they're great, they're really great, my parents. And they really, that work, I think, is done before the thing happens to the person.

• 20:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. How do you think people should handle when a big break happens in life? When, when they win the lottery, or something happens, or they get a big press hit, or they get a huge client that maybe they couldn't even dream of, like where you were at?

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:11Lewis Howes?

  How can someone take a step back and handle that or approach, approach that with grace moving forward, so that they don't blow the opportunity? It sounds like you didn't blow it, but you had a lot of headaches and stress.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  I would have loved to have been better too. I mean, I certainly made every mistake there was to make, but I think like...

• 21:31Speaker 01

  One thing I hated, I remember at the time, was people would say, "Don't change." You don't know what that means, especially when you're 19, because you're like, "I want to change." Like, "I hate my life," you know what I mean? Like, "I hate..." Like, "I didn't hate my life, but I wanted to do so many different things." And when people are telling you not to change, you also, that's an impossible thing to do. It's probably bad to not change. They're saying, like, "Stay grounded." I didn't know what that meant. What do I think?

• 22:00Speaker 01

  Gosh, I think he's probably making every mistake. I sadly don't know if there's a way to...

• 22:04Lewis Howes?

  It's messing up and fumbling along the way, so you can learn the lessons you need.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's why I said the most valuable lesson was saying you were wrong. I'll give you a great example of that, that I... All these lessons I live with every day, because I'm still doing the same job, is the director, David Trainer. He directed every episode of that show, which is very rare for a sitcom director to do all 200 episodes. And he's a wonderful human. He started on Broadway, so he comes from a really working with actors place. Some of these TV directors, they're coming at it from more of a visual place, but he's coming at it from an acting place. And like I said, I mean, I was so green in terms of just communicating with actors. I'd say, like, you know, "In my mind, I thought you were going to do that differently."

• 22:51Speaker 01

  That's like not something you can say as an actor during a set. It's like, "No, no, I saw it differently in my head." It's like, you know, illegal. But we were all starting and we were all... He was very patient with us that first season. I think in episode, like, seven or eight, like, really early on, came up to me and said, like, "Can you do this scene faster? You know, it needs to be quick." And he had an even nicer way of saying, like, "I think Eric would be, you know, more wanting to get there." But I understood the message was like, "Faster, like, we got to get to the commercial." And I was...

• 23:24Speaker 01

  Mad, because I really liked the way I was doing it. It really stepped on my ego. Like, I didn't even...

• 23:28Lewis Howes?

  The first season.

• 23:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't even look at like, oh, I don't mean my ego like I had a huge ego. I mean more like, just it personally hurt my feelings. Like, I had an opinion on the scene. As you always, if you're an actor, I think of any consequence, it's because you have a a idea for the scene.

• 23:46Lewis Howes?

  Point of view.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, point of view. But, you know, you're not the boss. You're hired to do that. So I was mad. I eventually did it faster, but I was really grumbling about it. I think when I saw it, I didn't even pay attention to whether it was actually better or not. I was just like, really feeling mad about it. And then like, I want to say, two years later, we're still on the show. It's now season three. I was having a dream and I woke up like early one morning and I was like, was he right about that? I mean, this like...

• 24:14Lewis Howes?

  Wow, two years later.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  I was still working with him all the time. And I was like, and I'd noticed how brilliant the guy was. And I was like, well, I don't know if he was right. Maybe we both had good points. Like, maybe like then half a year after that, I was like, no, he was right. You know what I mean? Like, I was really wrong about that. And so that was now like two and a half years later. And what I realized I needed to do was when a director comes up to you, have that exact conversation that I had with myself, which is, you can't stop yourself from being offended. That's, you know, if I came in here and said like, ah, why did you put books here? Why did you, it's kind of a lame studio. You can't like help yourself from being like, well, I spent a lot of time on this studio. But what you have to do in a period of, it's getting from two years into three seconds,

• 24:59Speaker 01

  is to say like, okay, let me listen, let me open myself, let me, you know. So I've tried to take that process. And now when like Spike Lee or Chris Nolan or one of these directors comes up to me, I still have the same, by the way, if anyone comes up to you and says anything's wrong about you, you kind of like want to put up a wall. And so that is an example of something that I've taken with me where...

• 25:19Lewis Howes?

  That's a powerful skill because most people can hold on to words or something that someone says or doesn't say, an acknowledgement or non-acknowledgement, and hold on to it for years, like you said, or months, or days, or hours. And it can consume their minds so much where they aren't incapable of taking action on their dreams.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I wasn't... I mean, it wasn't every minute of every day thinking about that scene, but.

• 25:42Lewis Howes?

  I mean, you've dealt with this, and I think actors probably deal with this the most because they're constantly getting critiqued or judged or having to say, no, redo the scene, I'm assuming. So how do, how do you teach other people to deal with that, those emotions? Where they don't hold on to something, but they take the feedback quickly. They say, okay, this feels whatever, but I'm going to move forward.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  I don't know how to tell someone else to listen. Like, it's impossible. It's like, really, only there's one person you can control. But I will say the people who don't listen, especially on something as collaborative as a film set or a TV set, the punishment is theirs. You know, like, even if they think they're standing up for their thing, if you don't know how to listen, it's, it only hurts you.

• 26:22Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Who's been the most brilliant person you've worked with? Actor, producer, director, or just in general in entertainment?

• 26:29Speaker 01

  Well, you did an episode on my podcast with Lewis Howes.

• 26:31Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  That changed the game for me. I moved, I gave away all my belongings. No, um.

• 26:38Lewis Howes?

  Was there an actor that you were just like, wow, I've never experienced someone so brilliant, whether it be a scene or consistently, or a director, or you're just like?

• 26:46Speaker 01

  I can give you a couple of people. With directors, for me, it was definitely David Trainer, who directed 70's Show. And early on, my first film was Traffic. And Steven Soderbergh was someone I was a huge fan of then. He'd just done Out of Sight, Aaron Brockovich and stuff, and then he was doing Traffic. And like, to be able to work with him, I didn't even know how to appreciate that because it was my first film. But in retrospect, I look back and he also holds the camera, so he's right there with you. But Paul Whites is an amazing director that I worked with, who you've seen his stuff, like About a Boy and In Good Company, and he's amazing. I did a play with him in New York. Another amazing experience. And Spike Lee, who I mentioned, Chris Nolan, and.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  That's been like my, David Mashad is a really great director. I'm more and more, I'm working with just directors that I really love. So the list gets more, hopefully I can add more and more to that list. And actors, Adam Driver was in Black Landsman, I got some stuff with him and I thought he was just-

• 27:45Lewis Howes?

  That guy's brilliant, I mean, he was in Girls, wasn't he, for-

• 27:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, he's in the Star Wars movies now, but he's also like, him and John David Washington in that movie were like, there were one or two scenes I had with, it was a three of us and I was like, wow, this is a really fun day. I mean, it was very heavy subject matter, but like, just bouncing off actors like that is just so much fun.

• 28:09Lewis Howes?

  What is it about those actors that make them so unique? That you're like, wow, this has got like a talent that's even beyond-

• 28:18Speaker 01

  I had a thing looking at Adam a couple of times where I was like, this isn't fair, like his vessel is so much better. See, he has this deep voice and this like, he's got a, like a way of delivering lines and if I wanted to copy, I couldn't. Who else was really great for me and very informative to work with was Dennis Quaid. I actually have done four things with him. And he's, he was in Traffic, but then we did this movie in Good Company and then we did this movie a couple of years ago called Truth with Cate Blanchett and that was another set where I was just like, Robert Redford was in that, so we'd be in scenes sometimes, all of us and I'd go like, screw it, we were at dinner sometimes and I was like, holy crap, like I can't believe I'm in that. But I think, I always knew it was working with great people because I've been in great ensembles,

• 29:03Speaker 01

  but it's more and more what I'm like obsessed with, just getting around good people and I didn't care if the movie does that well.

• 29:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, the experience, the journey. What makes those people so great, do you think? You know, these few people you've talked about, these actors.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Oh, what's the kind of like the thread that, man, I think it's that they don't care about the money.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Wow, interesting.

• 29:26Lewis Howes?

  They care about the art, the craft.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  All these directors and actors, all of them, they're... When you are doing something for money, it takes on... It's a different thing and it kind of, it just keeps kind of, I don't know, metastasizing. Do you know what I mean? It just keeps getting more about that. And if you kind of say, like, I lost money doing Black Klansman.

• 29:46Lewis Howes?

  You lost money because you were an executive producer?

• 29:48Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no. No, the film made money. I wish I had a piece of it. But, uh, no, they said, "We don't know if you're right for this." They'd never seen me do that kind of role. So I said, "Let me go in and read for Spike personally." Then when I got it, they said, "Oh, we'd love to have you, but it's a local hire, meaning you have to be from New York." So they don't have to fly you out. And I said, "Oh, no, I'll fly myself." So when you're making decisions from that point of view...

• 30:13Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  But it's all ego, you know, kind of if you go, "Oh, my God, I didn't get paid. And I had to go in and audition. I've been in the business for a long..." You could not have that experience. There are a lot of different ways you could talk yourself out of it, you know?

• 30:23Lewis Howes?

  So you felt like you got a pay cut, you got, you know, you had to do things, you had to drive yourself to work, whatever, per se?

• 30:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's not hard. I don't, I don't know. You gotta, you gotta live that life way before. You know, like, I remember everyone had, there was a period of time I was on this movie, I was looking around, everyone had an assistant. And I was like, "What do we need an assistant for? My life is so boring." Like, do you know what I mean? Like, going to get the, when you're out of work, you know, as an actor, which is the majority of the time, like, you can go get your own dry cleaning.

• 30:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you have a lot of free time.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, one time I had an assistant because it was my contract for, I was producing a movie. And I was like, "Can you dial so-and-so?" And she's like, "Where?" And I was like, "I'll do it." You know, like, I couldn't figure out, like, it was like, it's a waste of time to educate them. There are jobs where you need an assistant, but this is not one of them. But I can see where people start to detach from like, "Well, now I gotta pay for my assistant, so I gotta do this project." And then it goes, you know, the wrong way.

• 31:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So what was that experience like for you, being like this white supremacist in a time of our, you know, country and world where it's very sensitive?

• 31:26Speaker 01

  Well, it's two very different things. Playing the character and doing the research for the character was just like near depression. Like, it was...

• 31:34Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  Because I really wanted to come correct for Spike, and I did it. I read his autobiography, which is like, you know, it's basically his version of Mein Kampf. And then I was watching these interviews with him and... My wife was, we just had our kid at that point. She was like, you need to take it in the basement. Like, first of all, don't run those lines like around us. But also like, you're just like depressed. When we started shooting it, it was more fun because I said it was so many great people to work with. But the research was depressing, the doing it, and also the idea of working with Spike on something that at that very moment was Charlottesville had just happened. They added that stuff about Charlottesville at the end later.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  So you're watching the news every day, you're so frustrated, as we all are, and then you...

• 32:21Lewis Howes?

  And you're the one who's giving the lines that's like the bad guy.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  Well, that, that's, but if, yes. That's when I would, Spike would kind of come up and be like, don't worry, I know we shot all just Clan Rally stuff this week, but like, this isn't what the film is gonna be like, you know, I got you. Just to, as an artist, you know, you're an actor, people shouldn't be listening to what you're saying. They really shouldn't, you know what I mean? Like, I don't think there's an actor out there that I'm like, yeah, I want to listen to his opinion on politics. But we all have opinions, and to go work with someone like Spike, who people should listen to, and to be able to say something. I remember when the trailer came out, we improvised a thing. I mean, I went up to Spike and I said, hey, what if we worked in America first? Because it had kind of happened recently. And he said, yeah, that's great. So during the toast, I say, America first.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  And then that was the end of the trailer.

• 33:10Lewis Howes?

  The line in the speech.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm giving a speech and I lead a toast room. Kid starts chanting it after me and I was like, oh, this is gonna play in the theater. And then, when it was at the end of the trailer, I was like, is Trump gonna see this? Like, I mean, I know he watches TV, you know? And so it was a very cathartic experience. It was very tough, but it was very cathartic to be able to have all this frustration and then kind of be able to, you know, Spike who's saying something, but I get to help him say something I really believe in, yeah.

• 33:37Lewis Howes?

  So that was a moment where you had your own opinion, and the director said, yeah, I like your opinion.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  We did a lot of rehearsals too. I think that might have come out of rehearsals. And it's something not a lot of directors do, but, you know, John David, that was his first starring role. We're in these rehearsals and I was like, oh, this is gonna go great. Like, this guy's amazing.

• 33:54Lewis Howes?

  Wow. It's incredible, man. Now, what is that like for your personal life when you play a character that is this evil character? In a very sensitive, touchy, you know, subject, not like the bad guy in some Star Wars movie, but.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  Well, if you're in, if you're playing the Joker, you can do a little bit of like, well, you know, maybe I kinda see his point of view, because in my made up story, his father was abusive to him, or whatever. In this, it's like, I couldn't find that thing, that the more I read and did research on him, and it was a lot, I couldn't find that thing that made me sympathize with him. So what I did was I just played kind of pure evil, but totally covered up. And, uh, and that's how he is, too, in my opinion. It's like, it all looks very, um, easy to digest, and then the deeper you go, the more, and hopefully that's what it feels like in the movie, like, the more you get to know the character, the more you're like, oh, this guy.

• 34:51Lewis Howes?

  How do you, I mean, were, did you feel any attacks personally in your personal life? Like, did people come up to you and say like?

• 34:56Speaker 01

  I said that to Spike when I was cast. I said, you know, man, like, I ride the subway sometimes, like.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  And he said, no, no, don't worry, like, I think it was John Turturro, or someone said that to him on Do the Right Thing. And he said, no, no, you're with me, like, like, don't worry about it. And it's true. The thing I wasn't scared about was black people thinking I was racist. The thing I was scared about was white racists thinking I was racist. And someone, you know, kind of looking at me and going, you get it.

• 35:24Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 35:24Speaker 01

  And I haven't had any of that, but I don't really hang out with any of those people.

• 35:27Lewis Howes?

  You're Hollywood, like, chilling, yeah?

• 35:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I don't know, but, uh.

• 35:30Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  I'm, uh, I was nervous when it came out, and I was glad that the film was, I saw it at Cannes for the first time when it premiered. And I remember when we were doing it, I would say to Spike, like, I hope we get this, but it's so much humor, on, on top of something that's so heavy. Like, can this work as a movie? And to his credit, I turned to him in Cannes, I was like, I have never seen anything like this, and it did work, and I just, I couldn't believe it.

• 35:58Lewis Howes?

  It's a beautiful movie, man. It's a great experience, yeah. It's very good. Now, what is life like, what was life like pre-marriage and baby as an actor, thriving in Hollywood, and now you have a one and a half year old, married? And what is like, life like now as a father, being an actor, starting a podcast, you know, doing these projects? How do you handle it emotionally, physically, spiritually, everything?

• 36:25Speaker 01

  Well, it's amazing. I mean, it's everything everyone tells you and you don't listen beforehand. And you wait as long as you can. I did, I literally did. But I think, yeah, it does get worse, but it gets so much better that it's worth the ride. And my daughter is now at this age, that's unbelievable. I would say the podcast, if I go project by project, the podcast is the most fun because it's five minutes from my house. And I have a reason to leave once a week. And what's great is the nature of it is it's not just, you know, like, you gotta hear my life story, it's probably boring to you. But like, when you came on, I got to, we got to talk about, like, you know, I'd never

• 37:05Speaker 01

  written a song. And then similarly, I've never been hooked up to a lie detector test, or I've certainly never done beatboxing. So it's like, all these adventures. Everyone who has a new kid should definitely have a podcast where they have a different expert come in. It's like a liberal arts education for a 40-year-old or something. But so that's really fun. And there's kind of nothing hard about that. And I'm home two hours later with my kid. I'll tell you, I'm in this, there's an adaptation of The Hot Zone coming out on Nat Geo, which is one of my favorite books from the 90s. And I'm in it, and there's a scene where I had to cry. And the real difference I noticed was beforehand, I'd have a little trouble crying sometimes, I'd have to work myself up. And After the child.

• 37:50Speaker 01

  Oh, man, it was like I couldn't, like, it's a very emotional scene. Really? Yeah, I just, like, so fast, I just went there. Because you're just, I don't know, you're just more loaded up. You didn't know that chamber existed for you, you know? Do you feel like you're a better actor then? Because? I'm certainly a better crying actor. If you want me to be less emotional, maybe that's hard now. But nah, I think it's good for now. You can always scale it back, you know what I mean? But to find a new kind of cylinder. It's good, yeah.

• 38:21Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel like you're creating a, you're gonna, do you feel more urgent to be a working actor? Or you're kind of like, I've had my time and if something comes, cool, but I want to be a father and?

• 38:31Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I think.

• 38:32Lewis Howes?

  Or is it like?

• 38:33Speaker 01

  It would be hard to find the actor who's a dad. Actually, that's probably not true. You probably could find it, it's just you wouldn't like that guy who's like, get me on location.

• 38:40Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  I'm like, part of the reason that I'm excited to have a podcast and hopefully we monetize it at some point is because I would love to, you know, take one movie a year off the docket.

• 38:52Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 38:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, who doesn't want an office job? You, when you're younger, you're thinking, how do I, how can I be an actor and be in movies? And now I'm like, how do I just stay home?

• 39:00Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 39:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, you, you're, one, even before we had a kid, you crave the, the schedule.

• 39:07Lewis Howes?

  The grind.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  There's no schedule. Yeah, I'll have like two months where I don't work. And then a month where I'm getting up at four thirty every morning and, you know, it's like, I'm all over the place. Every project's so different. I'd love to just have a company I go into and just.

• 39:20Lewis Howes?

  Every day.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  Work at, yeah, be, especially having a kid.

• 39:23Lewis Howes?

  You have the opposite life of most people.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do too, probably, right?

• 39:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly. But most people don't want to go to an office and like work every day. They don't want to have like the flexibility and freedom and be able to create a project and.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  Well, it's funny, you just.

• 39:35Lewis Howes?

  But you did that for twenty years.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I grew, I grew up, my dad would come home at, you know, six P M. every day. And I think that was good for me and it was good for him, you know?

• 39:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, the routine is powerful. Whenever I'm traveling too much, I feel like I'm off my workout schedule, my.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  But you've probably got, like, if you have a problem, you're like, okay, let's sit down, let's fix it, right? Like, okay, so how, this is gonna be my new schedule and I'm gonna do, that's like what most, you wouldn't know this, but most humans just let it kind of go.

• 40:03Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 40:03Speaker 01

  And then they kind of go, my life's crap right now, like I gotta figure it out. But I hope, in terms of, I think what your original question was, which was, um.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  You know, do I seek out projects as much? No, but a little bit that's having a kid. A little bit of that is kind of feeling confident that like, I'll probably work again.

• 40:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, the right projects will come to you.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  There was a time 10 years ago where you go like, come on. But I, you know, it's funny, I realized I didn't have to do that. It just was, you know, I was young, you know?

• 40:32Lewis Howes?

  The anxiety of it, yeah.

• 40:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:34Lewis Howes?

  Cause there's a lot of actors who, I think we might've talked about this briefly on, on your show. There's a lot of actors who they might have huge hits and then for three, four, five years get nothing because they've been casted as a specific role or whatever. And they just can't even get auditions.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, look, I, I entered the business in a really unfair way. I, I've worked hard to earn it in retrospect. You know what I mean by?

• 41:00Lewis Howes?

  You've done the work.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, hopefully, but it's still probably nothing compared to someone who has to enter from the ground. And so I have great respect for people who, you know, really have to grind it out and trying to earn it now.

• 41:12Lewis Howes?

  What would you say is your biggest insecurity?

• 41:15Speaker 01

  My penis is too big.

• 41:17Lewis Howes?

  Too big?

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's like, do I get the surgery or?

• 41:21Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Um, no, uh, my biggest insecurity.

• 41:25Lewis Howes?

  Or fear or?

• 41:26Speaker 01

  Well, it wouldn't have anything to do with work anymore. You know, like, and that's another thing about having a kid. Really, when I met my wife, you could start feeling you're in a family. That, uh, it would be like, I don't know, like the polar ice caps are melting. Like when she's an adult, there, there's not going to be any polar ice caps. That's not right.

• 41:43Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 41:43Speaker 01

  And I can do nothing except maybe be in Spike Lee's movie about climate change. You know, maybe you can do a little something, but, uh, yeah, I would, it's all kind of family stuff and, you know, and also being a new dad is like, you just think of every worst case scenario.

• 41:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  So save yourself, man. You're not married, right? Just don't be in it. You're like, why do I, why did I do this? I care so much about this human.

• 42:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  It's, it's unbalanced, you know, like, but it's too late now.

• 42:10Lewis Howes?

  What's the greatest lesson you learned from your daughter so far?

• 42:14Speaker 01

  It would be something involving patience. She's not that old, so like.

• 42:18Lewis Howes?

  Well, learn about yourself through her.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Well, yesterday was my day. I take Tuesdays, that's all me. And, uh, oh man, it's long. I mean, it's like, no one tells you, uh, how kind of boring it is at the beginning. I mean, she can't even talk yet. So like, we're spending all day together. She's kind of like hitting a pillow and I'm like, this was a good five minutes and we gotta fill up, you know, 12 more hours.

• 42:39Lewis Howes?

  Patience.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  Patience is what she's talking about, you know. Yeah, I guess. Also, like, you don't. I hate to be cliched, because it's what everyone says, but you didn't know you could love someone that much. You know, it's like, it's, but everything I'm saying, everyone's said before, you know.

• 42:52Lewis Howes?

  But it's true, huh?

• 42:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I mean, yeah.

• 42:56Lewis Howes?

  Who do you love more?

• 42:57Speaker 01

  Looks like me, it's totally self-centered, she looks like me, I'm like, this is beautiful.

• 43:03Lewis Howes?

  What's been, what's been the greatest challenge being married in the relationship while having a new, a new child?

• 43:11Speaker 01

  You know, it's funny, everyone said like, it's the sleep, and I was like, man, I've done all-nighters on film. Like, I've done, there's a whole movie that was all-nighter, you know what I mean? I'll just kind of figure it out. And it's not that, it's like, all-nighters with this incredible amount of stress, and so it's just, I would say it's kind of a sleep, and my wife's a rock star. I mean, like, I've really married up, so she, she's a great parent. I am a good co-parent with her, but she is in, like, a born amazing parent, and, and she's also a rock star at everything she does. So, I've just been trying to kind of, you know, bend the knee.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  Like in Game of Thrones, you know what I mean? Like, I bend the knee to you, and, and she's, but that's part of any business, right? Like, I feel that way with Sim on this podcast.

• 43:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  Sim has already made one of the great podcasts of the early podcasty.

• 44:05Lewis Howes?

  World, yeah, yeah.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  Podcast sphere, and I did have a point where I worked with people that I was like, friends with more. On movies and producing and stuff, and I realized, like, I do want to work with friends if they're the best at what they do. That's not always the case with your friends. And so, I didn't know Sim, we, I mean, I'd met him once years ago, and then I went on on his podcast, and he said, I want to take you out to lunch, and I was kind of open to it, I said, sure, I thought it was like, to hang out or something. He said, I want to do your podcast, because I guess it had gotten, like, a lot of downloads or something, and I said. Oh, I don't want to have a podcast. And then I thought the idea, he was so passionate about it, as Sim is, and he's so,

• 44:49Speaker 01

  he's at the forefront of this new thing. That I thought, you know, I'd like to work with him on this. And it's really him. Like, he came up with that format of the adventures, like,

• 45:00Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 45:00Speaker 01

  I couldn't have come up with, I don't know what my bad idea for a podcast would have been with me. But someone once told me, you gotta feel if you have a partner, like, you both have to feel like you're fleecing each other at all times.

• 45:10Lewis Howes?

  Fleecing each other?

• 45:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, taking advantage of each other. You know, like, like, like, I'm winning being married to my wife, and she just doesn't know it. Like, I'm sneakily, like, and it's the same thing with Sim. I'm kind of like,

• 45:20Lewis Howes?

  I just show up and,

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 45:22Lewis Howes?

  Do my thing.

• 45:23Speaker 01

  And if he feels that way about me, and my wife feels that way about me, then it's, you know,

• 45:26Lewis Howes?

  Then it works.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm sure my wife will be thrilled that I compare her to Sim Sarno. In all, in all endeavors.

• 45:31Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, exactly.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  This is great. Do you remember what I made you talk about when you came on mine? I was like, do other motivational speakers, do you hate them? It didn't make our podcast, so don't worry about it. But it was like, you turn on Facebook, everyone's like, living their best life, or whatever, but you actually did it. But like, I mean, people are watching this thing right now. But these people, it's got like 34 likes, and probably half of it's their family. And I was, I was so obsessed with like, what does that feel like to be? What a weird time we live in. No one could do what you do normally 10 years ago. But now everyone's, you know, talking on their phone and telling them like, you gotta stick with your dream, or whatever. I'm like, you don't even have your life together, like, I mean, you, I mean, the person who's,

• 46:12Lewis Howes?

  Everyone's trying to be a coach of something, and that's why I've tried to take a different angle and not be necessarily a coach, even though people come to me for coaching and mentorship or whatever, but I try to be a facilitator. A facilitator of ideas, say, here's, I'm going on an adventure, kind of like you. Here's what I've discovered for myself. Here's the lesson I learned through,

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Because you can do that. The other thing, you can't really, you can't tell someone, do this. You'll be better, right? I mean, but you can say, like, talk about yourself, and like, right, exactly.

• 46:39Lewis Howes?

  Here's how I learned, because I was chasing my dream doing this. This is what I learned, and here's something you can try.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  But it does, it bugs the shit out of you, right? Come on, like, you're watching these people. And also, one, you're going, I could do this so much better. And two, you're saying you're doing it wrong.

• 46:51Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't bug me because it allows me to rise to the top.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  That's smart.

• 46:55Lewis Howes?

  You know what I mean?

• 46:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:57Lewis Howes?

  Okay, everyone's looking for answers or looking for solutions.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:00Lewis Howes?

  It allows my platform to continue to rise.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  I feel like that when I watch a terrible movie.

• 47:05Lewis Howes?

  You're like.

• 47:05Speaker 01

  Bad acting. I go like, oh, this isn't so hard.

• 47:10Lewis Howes?

  I also look at like, I want people to succeed. Like if their dream is to be a coach or to be this or that, like, I want you to figure it out one day because I want to collaborate with people who are rising.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 47:20Lewis Howes?

  So I look at, you know, it's just like, I don't know, if you see someone who's a bad actor when you're starting out, but then they worked on it for 10 years and now it's like their career took off.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  I don't want those people to take, I want especially people who are 40 year old male, white.

• 47:33Lewis Howes?

  Right, nerds.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I want those people to fail miserably and there's kind of only one spot left.

• 47:38Lewis Howes?

  It forces you to get better, though.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  Uh, that is true.

• 47:41Lewis Howes?

  If there's competition, it forces you to say, you know what? Good, I'm gonna learn how to be better. I'm gonna learn how to grow, how to invest more of my resources and my time, how to have a different, unique opinion so that I stand out.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Do you know who's the best actor to watch talk? I mean, I don't really like watching actors talk, so I'm even wary.

• 47:56Lewis Howes?

  Opinion out of the screen.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  Outside of the screen is Ethan Hawke. I just straight up YouTube videos of him giving interviews. He's always saying stuff that's like really important about the craft or outside of the craft and he told this story about River Phoenix because they were in The Explorers together. Do you remember that movie?

• 48:16Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  It's in the 80s. They were like kid actors in it. Like, who knew they were both gonna blow up so hard? Like it was just, they were two kids in a movie with these three boys who go in outer space or whatever. And he decided to go to boarding school. And this is before Dead Poets Society or any of this stuff and just decided to be a real kid. River Phoenix became everything. He was the coolest guy in Hollywood all of a sudden and you gotta hear him tell this story, but River Phoenix was in like a Rolling Stone interview or he's on the cover and he's talking about reading Catcher in the Rye. Ethan Hawke's like, you didn't read it? I read it and I told you what it was. You know, he's so, he said it was an agony of jealousy of River.

• 48:51Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  And he said when he died, it just like exploded him. Like he went like, I was wrong. Like that guy was making me better the whole time. Like I wouldn't have been in Dead Poets Society. I wouldn't, he like wouldn't be doing what he's doing today if he didn't have that. That

• 49:06Lewis Howes?

  Competition or that other

• 49:07Speaker 01

  I don't even know if it was just competition. It was like, he also respected him on a certain level and thought he was great. And I just went, oh, that's so great. He told that story because I, I do think you're right. Ultimately, people you respect give you, I had that in tennis. If you play someone worse than you, you lose to them. You play someone better and you get better, you know?

• 49:23Lewis Howes?

  You know LeBron James wants competition because it's going to make him score more points and be one of the greatest of all time as opposed to, oh, I only need 20 points this game to win.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  This is the difference between you and these guys on Facebook is this is what I'm saying. You actually came from doing something where when you say that I go, oh, you know, you've been on the field.

• 49:39Lewis Howes?

  You'd rather play against the best and win. And you're like, man, I gave my all and it worked as opposed to like, oh, that was an easy season. We won the championship because we didn't play anyone.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  I know you're right. I mean, I, in the way that movie making is like sports, I agree with you.

• 49:52Lewis Howes?

  It's like, if there was 100 bad movies and you were the only good one and you're like, oh, we're going to win every award. Cool. It feels good. But it's like,

• 50:00Speaker 01

  Well, back that up actually. Do you mean the Academy Award?

• 50:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Or any other way. I'll take that.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess, huh?

• 50:08Lewis Howes?

  But you know what I mean? It's like, you'd rather win knowing like, man, there were four other great nominations.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  But I think what's even better is that they make you better. It's not just that, like, you kind of can feel the, competition is actually the wrong word. It's got a negative.

• 50:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, not competition, but just other quality work.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:23Lewis Howes?

  Other people doing great work that make you want to do great art as well.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:28Lewis Howes?

  Here's a quite more of a personal question for you. Hypothetical, imagine this is your last day.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Oof.

• 50:35Lewis Howes?

  And it's not going to happen, but it's just

• 50:37Speaker 01

  Why did I come to your podcast? I went for my family and my, I gotta get out of here.

• 50:43Lewis Howes?

  Maybe imagine in a year or a couple of years, it's, you know, one of your last days and your, your daughter isn't able to speak yet. So I guess it's coming up in a few months. And you can leave her with one lesson that you can record on a video or you can say over audio that this will be a lesson that she can

• 51:01Speaker 01

  Right, because she's the age now where I'm like, chair.

• 51:02Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  Chair. That wouldn't be the right lesson.

• 51:04Lewis Howes?

  When she's 16, 18, 21, she can open this lesson and listen to it, watch it. She can take it in. What would you say to your daughter on how to experience her life?

• 51:20Speaker 01

  You know, this is funny. It's something I talked about on Anna's podcast because it was a movie I did with Anna. I had had enough successful things that I got to produce a movie. And it failed so hard. It was number 11 out of 10, opening weekend. I mean, it was just like,

• 51:40Speaker 01

  and it wasn't for lack of me trying, it was for lack of me knowing anything about how to do something like that. And I cared so much about it. And I was so, I knew that it got held for a little bit, which is very painful. And in that time, I felt like I had then digested the lessons, but it was kind of too late. Do you know what I mean?

• 52:00Speaker 01

  So I knew there was learning going on, but when it came out, I was just devastated. And then a couple of months later, like from that time on, my life has been, my working life has been unbelievable because it taught me so much.

• 52:13Lewis Howes?

  Even after you failed so miserably.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  Well, I would say that, I mean, everyone has a different version of the story, but failure is the most wonderful teacher. It's nothing to be ashamed of. It's like, all the current successes I'm having are because of trying to go deeper in a thing that I didn't understand. And there's no way, I'm watching my daughter right now. You know, she didn't start walking until she fell on the floor like a thousand times. So, you know, I'm sure it hurt. She can't even talk about it. She's learning to try to talk. And it's the same thing. I was

• 52:46Speaker 01

  really, I didn't even understand what the job of actor was until I got out of it as a producer and saw there were all these other elements. And every right move that I make now is because I made a wrong move then. And it was, it was great talking to Anna about it because, by the way, I like the movie still. It wasn't like it was a terrible film. It just kind of, God, you go back to each experience and you say, I mean, who doesn't do this past a certain age? If only I could change that. If only I could change that. But that's what the future is about, is the, you know, being able to change it, right?

• 53:15Lewis Howes?

  So what would you say to her?

• 53:17Speaker 01

  I'd say failure, yeah, just don't be, you know, at the time, I had so many wins in a row. And you get addicted to that feeling, but it's actually, I tried to do this mathematically once. It's like, when you're feeling challenged, you're actually going up the mountain. And when you're going down the mountain, you feel amazing. Like, there's no challenge. You're just sliding right down. You know, so like, it's so much fun, but then you look up a year later and you go, oh, I didn't. I didn't do anything of any consequence or whatever, but every time you're messing up, I felt it the whole time I was doing 70's Show. I'd learned how to, the best way to do an interview and that's only from doing, like, I went on Leno and I couldn't speak, I was so nervous, you know what I mean? It's like, and then they were like, "That was

• 53:58Speaker 01

  a terrible interview," and then you get, figure it out and, you know, it's so, I just, the whole thing, I guarantee you, this is the thing to do, to look at other people who are crazy successful, who you want to be like, and go, "Oh, they messed up," you know, "They've done it all wrong too." Maybe they were not as famous as I was when they were messing it up, but I think like, that to me is my, it just, I so embrace failure now. When I fail, I know I'm, I'm, I'm, uh, my status is rising, which I think a lot of people think when they're failing, they're going down. It's really kind of when you're succeeding that you're not growing. Right?

• 54:37Lewis Howes?

  You're not growing, you're maybe hitting your stride, but you're not...

• 54:40Speaker 01

  No, just the act of just succeeding, the work is, when you're working and it's challenging and then it has success, that's great, that work was great. But, you know, I just went to 200 parties for Black Klansmen. That doesn't help anything. You know what I mean?

• 54:55Lewis Howes?

  You're just having fun, you're just like getting acknowledged.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it maybe helps the movie's chances at being nominated or something, but it's truly when you're, just what I've noticed for me, I'm just so bad at it, this is how it feels to me, is that when you're, when you're dealing with obstacles and you're even failing against them, but then you're learning how to do it better, that's when you're actually climbing. It's just, it's just painful.

• 55:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I hear you. Man, this is called the three truths. This question.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  But I gotta think of my Lewis Howes metaphor for climbing. Something with rock climbing, or can you give me one? See, rock climbing is painful, it hurts you or whatever, but that's how you have the muscles at the end. Whatever, I don't know.

• 55:35Lewis Howes?

  This is called the three truths. I asked this question at the end for everyone. So you kind of shared one already, but maybe you'll have a different three here. So imagine, so imagine this is your second death.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  Wow, okay. What is this podcast called, actually? Am I dead now?

• 55:49Lewis Howes?

  You gotta go through pain, remember?

• 55:51Speaker 01

  I'm in, I'm in like some kind of purgatory where you just interview me until we see if I get into heaven or something, right?

• 55:56Lewis Howes?

  So imagine this is like your last day, you're a hundred and something years old. Okay, you live as long as you want to live. You achieve everything.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  Eighty's good.

• 56:05Lewis Howes?

  Okay, eighty's good. You achieve all the things you want to achieve. You have the life of your dreams. You go through failures, ups and downs. But it's the final day and you look back and you say, I don't regret anything. I did it all. Great life. And you get to leave behind three truths. Three things you know to be true from all your experiences, all your lessons, all your ups and downs that you would share with the world. Not just your daughter, but with the world. What would you say are your three lessons or three truths to the world?

• 56:35Speaker 01

  Oh, man. Well, yeah, the failure would be one. That would be if you are getting that penis reduction surgery, research the doctor. That's all I'll say. No, the other two would be, oh, man, I'm not, you know, I'm not anyone that someone should listen to.

• 56:54Lewis Howes?

  But just what do you feel from your life experiences that makes, makes sense for you?

• 56:59Speaker 01

  I would say, yeah, maybe one that's in tandem with that failure thing is being, being up for anything. I noticed that when you came on our podcast, because we were talking about sports and then we're talking about being an orator, kind of. And then someone came in and said, we're gonna write a pop song and you didn't miss a beat. Like, I thought you were maybe gonna go, I was kind of hoping to be honest, that you were gonna be like, I can't do this. You know, because you want, you know, a guy who's confident, who's got, you know, to like not, but you jumped right in, man. And I, and you told me a story when we were talking, so I think I knew it was gonna be like that, where you did the musical in high school.

• 57:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  And if there's a-

• 57:32Lewis Howes?

  I jumped in, yeah.

• 57:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's like, I didn't do-

• 57:34Lewis Howes?

  I was scared, but I jumped in.

• 57:35Speaker 01

  I was scared of football, but I didn't play football. I was doing the musical, so like, I think that quality, which I learned maybe later in life, I wish I'd had. It has to do with failure.

• 57:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  But I think it's a slightly different thing. It's like just jumping and- Even if I fall. Ah. Hit single, coming out on iTunes, and they're out now. It's, uh, that is true. It's like, it's worse than not of, uh. Tried. To try. Is it worse than I've tried than I never tried at all or something? That's one of the lyrics, dude. That's one of the lyrics. Man, I can't wait. I can't wait for you to hear this. I love that you still know the lyrics. That's how good it is, man. So can't you? How memorable it is that we wrote it and we remember it. But like. It was like three months ago or something, right? It was a while ago. I really believe in that. I've had a couple of instances where some director will say like, you know, we want him to fly out here to try out for it, but, you know, don't waste the trip. You know, it's, who knows? I can't promise you the role or whatever. And I think, man, get on that plane, go.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  You never, yeah, you never know. But it's so much easier said than done. My dad used to say that to me all the time. Like, ask her out, you know? Ask her to prom. What's the worst that can happen? What happened? You rejected it. You feel like a loser. She rejected me in front of all my friends. But I even think that made me stronger. So I think that's one. And then my other one would be three truths. Oh, man.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  Just dance like no one's watching.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  It would be, uh, I think there's some, there's a balance of real world and fake world. It doesn't just have to be Hollywood, although Hollywood is a much more pronounced, like you really can tell like, what is the red carpet or what is you at home in sweats? But I think everyone has a version of, you know, kind of this curated, um, work-life thing and this home where you feel comfortable. And I think you have to be tipping, at the very least, tipping in the direction of home. I heard this thing on Charlie Rose once, years ago, where he was interviewing, um, Andre Agassi. And he said, hey, I'm gonna ask you a question. What's the best day of your life? But first, I'm gonna play the same question I asked Pete Sampras on my show last month.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  So they turned to the monitor and Pete Sampras said. Would I beat Agassi or what? No, it was just kind of like tied, match, set, whatever. You know what I mean? With Agassi. Overtime, you know, whatever. And, you know, beautiful day, maybe Wimbledon, you know, that kind of thing. And then it came back to Agassi and he said, oh, that's really kind. Like, wow. And then he said, well, what would be your best day? And he was like, I probably having like a barbecue with my family. Like, it wasn't about tennis at all. It was great. And it just showed the difference between those two players, right? Sampras was, you know, kind of a real robot about it. Agassi was more of an artist. And I do believe that your personal stuff is tied to whatever your professional. Wands or dreams are kind of can't happen without that balance.

• 1:00:22Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's pretty interesting.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:24Lewis Howes?

  I don't think I've heard that truth before. That's powerful.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  Did you say it or something?

• 1:00:27Lewis Howes?

  No, I don't think I've heard that before.

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  Oh, you don't think you've heard it? I thought you said I think I've heard it before.

• 1:00:30Lewis Howes?

  No, I don't think I've heard that before.

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  I housed your book last night, man.

• 1:00:33Lewis Howes?

  That's good.

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  Now, yeah, I think I would say page eighty-two.

• 1:00:36Lewis Howes?

  No, I think that's powerful. I want to acknowledge you for a moment for for constantly showing up and reinventing yourself because I think it's it's hard to, you know, be a star in one show and then continue to reinvent and do other challenging projects and and try to do that in this space. I've seen a lot of actors who haven't been allowed to do that and you've been doing it for twenty years.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  Someone asked me on the red carpet of Black Lives Matter, did you ever see yourself playing the Grand Wizard of the KKK when you back when you were doing Seventy Show? And I was like, what? Why would I have been daydreaming about like if I could ever play the exact opposite?

• 1:01:11Lewis Howes?

  But it's powerful, man, because you're willing to take risks, you're willing to take the jump, you're willing to fail and and I acknowledge you for that, man. I acknowledge you for being a powerful father or a great leader for your family and everything that you do and taking the risk for the podcast. So, congrats on

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  Thank you, dude.

• 1:01:25Lewis Howes?

  Congrats on that as well.

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  Thank you for, by the way, I was, just so your audience knows, I was two episodes in before you.

• 1:01:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  Really nervous. People had vouched for you and I and I was aware of you, but I, you know, you don't know what someone's actually going to show up with that kind of energy and it was, we should give you a cut of that show because you were so great. The adventure went so great. It was our first like great one and like

• 1:01:47Lewis Howes?

  That's good.

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  Just thank you for coming on.

• 1:01:49Lewis Howes?

  It all went downhill after that. No, I was kidding.

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  No, well, weirdly, it kind of it could, but it's when you see that something, it's just like doing a show or movies. If you see it can start working, then that becomes the roadmap of like, how do we do this kind of thing? Yeah.

• 1:02:01Lewis Howes?

  So it kind of led the way for the next

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  I won't tell you what the first two episodes were if they're airing, right?

• 1:02:06Lewis Howes?

  Great. Well, make sure you guys check out the podcast. It's called Minor Adventures. It's all for grace. And where can we connect with you online?

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  I'm not too active on social media, but I guess follow Minor Adventures.

• 1:02:18Lewis Howes?

  Minor Adventures?

• 1:02:18Speaker 01

  They'll tell you when.

• 1:02:19Lewis Howes?

  On Instagram or Twitter or wherever it's at?

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  Well, I'm so bad at this part.

• 1:02:23Lewis Howes?

  Okay. But you're on Instagram, right?

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I, I, yes. Once I got married, I was like, I'm gonna do two photos a week. That's a promise.

• 1:02:29Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool.

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  So you're reminding me I have to post a photo at some point this week.

• 1:02:32Lewis Howes?

  Okay, perfect. And is there a website for you as well or?

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  No, I'm sorry.

• 1:02:37Lewis Howes?

  Just social media, check out the podcast, subscribe to it. My final question then is, what is your definition of greatness?

• 1:02:46Speaker 01

  Give me other answers, real quick.

• 1:02:50Lewis Howes?

  I'll give you mine. It is to discover the unique talents and gifts within you. And use those gifts to pursue your dreams. And in the pursuit of your dreams, make the maximum impact on people around you.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, that sounds pretty thought out. I don't think I'm gonna have something that quick. Here's what I'll say, I was just in a conversation with about right now. So this is, at this point in my life, what I'm trying to do. Ten years ago, it was like trying to get a date with, you know, whoever. But...

• 1:03:18Lewis Howes?

  Get a girl to like you, that was...

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. That's the motivator that brings you to... But I would say, right now, I'm trying to not focus on an idea of what I think I should be. Maybe that comes with being 40 or something. You know, when you're younger, maybe you think like, I should be... Like, wouldn't it be great if I was this? Or just not having any... Because I feel more confident than I did in my twenties and I wanna like... And the perfect example is the podcast or something strange like that that I wouldn't have thought I was gonna do. And just saying, hey, if I've identified these qualities you're talking about, you know, that are good. I'm like, oh yeah, that might work. And just being confident, remaining really open. Because you can't, I mean, if I said to my agent, I wanna do an action comedy. They'd go, okay, we'll ring you up when one of those comes together, you know?

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  But to just stay open and say, you know, I'm gonna have to work with the people. I mean, like the David Duke thing. You know, three days before that, I didn't know I was gonna be doing that. So, yeah, I think I would just, just to remain open and confident what your things are.

• 1:04:18Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. Go for it, my man. Appreciate it, brother.

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:04:25Lewis Howes?

  And there you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Topher Grace. Make sure to check out his podcast, Adventure, as well, that I just went on and we recorded a song. And go listen to it. It's pretty cool. It's really exciting, actually, to see what we created in a short amount of time. If you enjoyed this, share it with your friends. LewisHowes.com/781. Share it out. Spread the message of inspiration and greatness far and wide to make an impact on the lives around you. The people you care about, send them this podcast. Tell them to subscribe. If you haven't subscribed yourself, make sure to subscribe right now over on the Apple Podcast on your phone. You can go to Spotify and listen there,

• 1:05:06Lewis Howes?

  SoundCloud, Google Play, all the places. Leave us a review. The reviews really help us get the message out as well to spread the message of greatness to more people. Remember that you are a incredible, beautiful, one of a kind individual. There's no one who's ever going to be like you ever again. You are here for a reason, and I hope you remember that. You've got an opportunity to do something special with your life. You've got different moments where you can maximize the gifts and the talents that you were born with. You can discover new talents and gifts. You can learn a new skill. You can master it and then apply that by giving value to other people with your talent. You can make magic in your life if you choose to work at it. You've just got to be willing to

• 1:05:51Lewis Howes?

  step up and have the confidence in yourself. I hope this podcast, the School of Greatness, has given you different tools and inspiration and confidence to allow you to take the leap of faith into the unknown, the leap of faith into the scary, messy times of life. Because once you get through those scary, messy times, there is incredible beauty on the other side. I love you so very much, and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.