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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:05 Speaker 00 Two or three months into our engagement, I had discovered he had been talking with multiple people from different dating apps. I think we should continue with the wedding because there's a lot of money invested.
0:18 Dr. John Delony? If I'm honest with you, like, the event is way down my list of worries right now.
0:30 Dr. John Delony? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. If you're new, I'm so grateful that you're with us. If you've been with us since episode one, hey, God help you. But, man, I'm grateful everybody's here. We're talking about your mental and emotional health, your relationships, your kids, whatever you've got going on. For more than 20 years, I've been sitting with hurting people, trying to figure out what's the next right move for them in their life. And so if you want to be on the show, go to johndeloney.com/ask. And please, take two seconds and hit the subscribe button and the follow button, all that stuff. It just tells the internet overlords that you're a fan of the show, and it kicks it up in the algorithm, and that helps everybody. All right, let's go out to Little Rock, Arkansas, and talk to Ann. Hey, Ann, what's up?
1:16 Speaker 00 Hi, Dr. John. How are you?
1:17 Dr. John Delony? I'm doing all right. How about you?
1:19 Speaker 00 I'm doing great. Glad to talk to you.
1:21 Dr. John Delony? I'm happy to talk to you. What's up?
1:24 Speaker 00 So, my question for you is, if my fiance and I should proceed with our planned wedding or not, due to some infidelity discovered right before our engagement?
1:41 Dr. John Delony? Wow. Tell me more. Tell me more.
1:43 Speaker 00 Yeah. So, we got engaged last summer, and then about two or three months into our engagement, I had discovered on Household iPad that before engagement, he had been...
2:01 Speaker 00 Talking with multiple people from different dating apps and I was able to see all the messages were were still there. I think he had forgotten about them. Yeah, so um I, you know, confronted him with it, um but this was months old to him at this point. So he had sort of kind of forgotten about it, moved on and I was fresh to me. So uh it's caused some uh fights and tension in the home since then and um he wants to potentially postpone the wedding. He thinks it's a good idea to postpone it uh while I finish healing or while I heal. So um I I think we should continue with the wedding because there's a lot of money invested. I mean, we have everything planned, so you know.
2:45 Speaker 00 And um yeah, so I I'm just wanting to ask you um sort of for some wisdom and, you know, should we postpone? Should we keep chugging along?
2:57 Dr. John Delony? I if I'm honest with you, like the event is way down my list of worries right now.
3:05 Speaker 00 Hmm, yeah.
3:08 Dr. John Delony? Um, I can't tell if you're in a season of denial or if you're if he's just a great gaslighter or if at the end of the day, like this this sucks, but it's not that it it's fine. It doesn't matter. We're gonna move on with this thing. I'm forgiving him. We're moving on. I can't tell where you are, but your response is um it's just neutral and I don't have a way to pin it down. So well, like, but take away the money. I know you've got deposits. You've got all that stuff. You've got the invitations. You've got the embarrassment, all that stuff. Take that away for a second. Do you want to marry this guy?
3:49 Speaker 00 I still do. Yeah.
3:51 Dr. John Delony? Let me get beneath that question. Is he a person that you can safely anchor into till death do you part?
4:03 Speaker 00 I felt like he was before I discovered this.
4:06 Dr. John Delony? Okay, but we're past that now.
4:08 Speaker 00 Yeah. Um, I think, I think he still is. Um, I think the other qualities of him,
4:18 Speaker 00 I feel like they outweigh the, uh, this, this terrible thing that happened. Um.
4:25 Dr. John Delony? Are you confident that this is all there is?
4:30 Speaker 00 I'm as confident as I can be. I mean, I, I only was able to, I saw everything that there was. I haven't seen anything since and he assures me there's not been anything since. So I just have to, I either have to keep, you know, being fearful every day or I have to just trust him.
4:49 Dr. John Delony? Okay. There's a third option there.
4:51 Speaker 00 Mm-hmm.
4:52 Dr. John Delony? Okay. It's not, oh, I just gotta be worried for the rest of my life, or I just gotta jump back in the middle of this boiling pot and I hope I don't get burned. The third option is, and this is the hardest one, but this is the path to healing after infidelity.
5:07 Speaker 00 Mm-hmm.
5:08 Dr. John Delony? After somebody cheats on you and breaks your heart.
5:11 Dr. John Delony? It is you doing the hard work to think,
5:16 Dr. John Delony? what must be true for me to truly trust him again? And then you give him a very clear roadmap for him to follow.
5:27 Dr. John Delony? And he walks that path.
5:30 Speaker 00 Mm-hmm.
5:30 Dr. John Delony? And that path might be, I don't want you to have a phone for six months. Or I want us to share a whatever, or I want to check your messages, or I, I want you to delete social media. You can be as crazy and out there as you want because you're the one that got cheated on.
5:44 Speaker 00 Mm-hmm.
5:44 Dr. John Delony? And then he gets to be a grown up and say, I, I'm out dude, I'm not doing that. Or you're worth the rest of my life. I'll do whatever it takes.
5:55 Dr. John Delony? But you're, you're kind of just, it's either this or it's either this. And what you're, what you're avoiding is the hard work of truly learning to trust each other again.
6:07 Speaker 00 Mm-hmm.
6:07 Dr. John Delony? So was he an idiot who was on dating sites after, with a long-term girlfriend, just nervous and getting cold feet? And just trying to see what else is like peeking over the fence to see what the other grass look like on the other field? Or is he a serial cheater? Is he somebody that I just can't, I can't trust? He didn't come clean, I had to find this stuff, he just forgot about it. Like, you get what I'm saying?
6:30 Speaker 00 Mm-hmm, yeah. The, the way he says it and the way I, I take it is, um, he just needed some release. I think there was, um, tension between us, we were long distance. And he just, he just wanted a release. I don't think he was actually looking for anything or anyone else. He just wanted that attention. And I wasn't, um, physically nearby to give that.
6:58 Dr. John Delony? Yeah, that's not an excuse, it's a context. But I, I want to know what work he's gonna do, he's been doing and what work he's gonna do. Because y'all will be apart again in your marriage. Right? Y'all will be in separate towns, one of you or both of you will be on work trips. And the day in and day out of just being married, you can share a bed with somebody and be a thousand miles away from them. Right? There will be separation. There will be seasons of distance between the two of you emotionally and physically. I want to know what he needs to do for his quote-unquote "release."
7:35 Speaker 00 Right.
7:36 Dr. John Delony? And is it a thing that's gonna honor our commitment to each other? And to strengthen this, this concrete that we've anchored into? Or is he gonna be like, "No dude, you were gone, so I just had to, huh huh." And then go do something else?
7:48 Speaker 00 Right.
7:50 Dr. John Delony? Now, it's strange. Normally, it would be flipped. He wants to like, let's do the wedding, and you're like, I don't know. Why does he want to pause this wedding?
8:00 Speaker 00 Um, I believe he has, um, in his mind, he's, he's done the work and he's, you know, deleted everything and he's given me access to his phone and, um, he's, you know, open and honest about things and, uh, he feels that he's like moved on from this. I think he's sort of repented and, and, uh, healed from it and he knows that he doesn't want to do that again and, uh, go through this again, of course.
8:28 Dr. John Delony? Yeah, but he's not the victim here.
8:30 Speaker 00 Right. So he, um, he, yeah, yeah.
8:35 Dr. John Delony? That's like the knife saying like, ah, I didn't mean to cut that big hole in you.
8:39 Speaker 00 Yeah.
8:40 Dr. John Delony? I've wiped the blood off. I'm good. I'm not going to cut you anymore. And you're like, cool. I still have a huge hole and I'm bleeding.
8:45 Speaker 00 Right. And I, it's been, it's been a few, it's been several months since, um, I found this out. So I really had hoped that I could be somebody who was strong and could, uh, forgive him and, um, you know, not forget, but move on. And I think he's saying that I'm still bringing it up even months later and I've not healed from it. So he's saying, well, maybe we should just hold off on it while you learn to trust me again. And, cause I'm, he thinks I'm doing everything that I can do and you're not trusting me still. And so I don't think we should, you know, jump into a marriage if you, if you feel like you'll never be able to trust me again.
9:35 Dr. John Delony? So what, what do you?
9:39 Dr. John Delony? Let me put it this way.
9:40 Speaker 00 Mm-hmm.
9:41 Dr. John Delony? Your feelings that you're searching for, that you're going to wake up one day and be like, oh, yeah, I can totally trust him again.
9:47 Speaker 00 Yeah.
9:48 Dr. John Delony? Those aren't going to come. Without, without some, without a clear path.
9:53 Speaker 00 Yeah.
9:55 Dr. John Delony? And if you're waiting for feelings to be your barometer, man, that's a, feelings are really important data. They let us know when our body detects we're not safe.
10:06 Speaker 00 Hmm.
10:06 Dr. John Delony? And people who are like, you should forget your feelings. That's dumb. Feelings are important and it's also dumb. Unwise to let your feelings be the leash that dragged you around the world. Cause our feelings job is not to tell us the truth. It's just to get our attention.
10:24 Speaker 00 Yeah.
10:27 Dr. John Delony? And so if, if several months later, you're just waiting to wake up one day and be like, ah, healed. That's not how that's gonna work. If you keep bringing it up and hitting him, you, you, you've taken his screw up and you put it in your back pocket as an ace of spades that you're gonna play anytime you're getting beaten a card game. That's cruel.
10:47 Speaker 00 Yeah.
10:50 Dr. John Delony? It's you deciding, I wanna get to the bottom of what are the things about him I don't trust. Most of the time, I don't wanna put you in this box. I'm just gonna say generally speaking, either A,
11:05 Dr. John Delony? there's something in your soul that says there's, I don't know the full story here.
11:11 Dr. John Delony? Or B, there's other places with money, with time, with, where were you last night? Oh, I was with, there's other places
11:21 Dr. John Delony? where he's not trustworthy.
11:24 Dr. John Delony? And your body is like, man, I'm telling you, telling you, Anne, something's not right here, right?
11:31 Speaker 00 Yeah.
11:31 Dr. John Delony? Or the third one is you've been cheated on before. Your body's run this script before and you get what I'm saying?
11:37 Speaker 00 Right.
11:38 Dr. John Delony? And the pressure of we already have the flowers purchased and we've got the church rented is weighing on what your body's trying to do to get your attention.
11:49 Dr. John Delony? Here's a way to flip this whole thing over. When we get off the phone, I want you to ask yourself, what if my body's right? What if this keeps coming back up? I keep have this sense in my spirit that something's not right.
12:05 Dr. John Delony? What if my body's right? And I'm going to look with clear eyes. Do I trust him?
12:11 Dr. John Delony? To be the guy that's going to show up for me and my kids? What things is he doing to deal with the quote unquote, release? Which, whatever.
12:21 Dr. John Delony? And am I giving him a very clear roadmap on what it will look like to reestablish trust? Or am I just walking around the house, my head down? Hoping I'm going to feel my way into the next right decision? And you're just, you're not.
12:37 Dr. John Delony? If he is telling you, I care about you enough that you're not settled and you're, and you're,
12:43 Dr. John Delony? in the middle of your heart. I'll postpone this wedding. I'll take the embarrassment and the shame. I did this. I don't want to put you in any more uncomfortable situations. In any more uncomfortable situations. If he's doing that, good on him.
12:56 Dr. John Delony? But you just have to make a choice on what you want to do next. And it's just going to take you deciding, I'm going to make a clear path here. And I'm going to be honest about why my body's fighting this thing so hard.
13:11 Dr. John Delony? Ah, sorry this happened. I just can't wrap my head around the pain of, I've heard it
13:18 Dr. John Delony? countless times, can't count. The iPad in the living room, the phone, the connecting to the car. I just can't imagine that pain is finding out like, oh, the person I'm with is not the person I thought they were. What a heavy weight.
13:33 Dr. John Delony? We've got to figure out, wading through feelings and emotions and what's the next right move? What are we thinking about you, Anne? I can't make a call. You go through with your wedding or you cancel it if you want, but do it with clear eyes. Not because I got a deposit laid down somewhere. We come back, a woman asks how to set boundaries with her parents so she can reclaim her own life.
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15:22 Dr. John Delony? This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I have had some amazing mentors and friends who are also amazing women. But one of the common themes I hear from all of the women who have poured into me over the years is that between caring for people and all of the other responsibilities and expectations that the whole world dumps on them, women are under an incredible amount of pressure every minute of every day. And often, they're encouraged to overlook their own emotional well-being for the care of others. Therapy can be a place where you learn how to set healthy boundaries, how to create some sort of balance and support and overall well-being for yourself.
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16:46 Dr. John Delony? All right. Chi-Town, Chicago, Illinois. Let's talk to Jane. What's up, Jane?
16:52 Speaker 02 Hi, Dr. John. Thank you so much for taking my call.
16:55 Dr. John Delony? Thank you for calling. What's up?
16:58 Speaker 02 Yeah, so I'll get right into it. So my question is, how do I set and maintain boundaries with my parents so I can go live my life when they're so insistent that it's my duty to take care of them until they're gone?
17:13 Dr. John Delony? Ooh, wow. Is there a... Is this an arrogance, or is this a cultural context?
17:24 Speaker 02 It's a cultural context. So, um, so we are first-generation immigrants.
17:29 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
17:30 Speaker 02 Um, we moved here many decades ago when I was a child, and, um, my parents started a small business. They were working long hours, and understandably, they were stressed out being in a whole new country.
17:42 Dr. John Delony? Yeah, what a nightmare, dude.
17:43 Speaker 02 And they, yeah, and they never were able to dedicate like the time and effort to like learn English.
17:50 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
17:51 Speaker 02 So they've just known the bare minimum to get through their day-to-day, and it's been the way of life for me to translate every piece of mail, like business documents.
18:04 Speaker 02 Take time off school and work to go with them to like doctor's appointments and you know, like car repairs, to the bank, like all of those things that come up that's like outside of the daily routine.
18:16 Dr. John Delony? Hmm.
18:17 Speaker 02 Um, and now that they are aging and um, you know, their health is deteriorating and things like that, um, they've gotten so dependent on me that I'm unable to like make plans for my life and um, if anything, they're starting to imply that I really can't plan anything because I need to be here to take care of them.
18:42 Dr. John Delony? Hmm. All right, can I do something that's mean?
18:45 Speaker 02 Okay.
18:46 Dr. John Delony? Is that okay? I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm your friend and I'm on your team, but I just wanna, I'm, I'm gonna do something that's gonna feel mean for a second, okay?
18:53 Speaker 02 Okay.
18:54 Dr. John Delony? I want you to run back the last few sentences you gave me, but I want you to change a couple of words, okay?
18:59 Speaker 02 Okay.
19:00 Dr. John Delony? I want you to change it from "they are making me" to "I am choosing."
19:05 Speaker 02 Hmm.
19:06 Dr. John Delony? Okay, so, tell me what you are choosing to do when it comes to getting them to all their appointments and everything.
19:16 Speaker 02 Um, I am choosing to take time off work, to take them to various appointments, and I am choosing uh, to not make plans for the rest of my life so I can stay here and take care of my parents.
19:36 Dr. John Delony? There we go. That hits different, huh?
19:38 Speaker 02 Yes.
19:39 Dr. John Delony? Yeah. So, the, the only, the only way I've seen people be successful in this situation is to really get a clear, um, what I would call an "or what" statement.
19:57 Dr. John Delony? Okay. And what I mean by that is, I've talked to people who have said, "My parents made choices when it came to their money. They're broke. They're aging. They will never move into my house." Best of luck. Hope Medicare, Medicaid works, which your parents may not qualify for. Best of luck to them. I've heard that. I've also had conversations with people over the years who are super frustrated, super annoyed with the situation their aging parents are in. But they'll also say, "I'll move them into my spare bedroom and I'll make my kids share a three to a room. Like, I'm not gonna leave my parents on the street."
20:40 Dr. John Delony? And so, getting to that nth finish line, to that "or what?" statement, like, "Or what are you actually gonna do? You gonna leave them out?" Like, so getting there, it tends to allow you to reverse engineer your actions after that.
20:56 Dr. John Delony? Right? Because here's the thing. The reason they are demanding so much from you is because they can.
21:07 Dr. John Delony? Because you show up every time. Which I think is amazing and noble, but it's also exhausting and frustrating. And you're watching your life. Like, are you married? Are you dating anybody?
21:18 Speaker 02 Uh, I was married once before. I am dating again.
21:22 Dr. John Delony? Gross. Okay. So, like, you're, like, you're, uh, like, it's also really frustrating. Like, you wanna make plans. You wanna do this. And then your dad calls and says, "You need to come over here and read my mail to me." Right? So, is there gonna come a day when you're never gonna go over there anymore? Or if they don't have a place to live, then so be it?
21:47 Dr. John Delony? Because if that day is here, if it's coming, they need to know that, then you need to draw that firm line in the sand, draw the boundaries, and begin acting into it.
22:01 Speaker 02 Yeah, so recently I did try to set some boundaries and you know, I don't think I went about it the right way because it was somewhat escalated inside an argument.
22:13 Dr. John Delony? Sure.
22:14 Speaker 02 And essentially what I told him was like, I need him to please make his own decisions and like be an adult, you know?
22:24 Dr. John Delony? Yeah.
22:24 Speaker 02 And he hung up on me and he's giving me the silent treatment signal.
22:31 Dr. John Delony? Okay, well, he gets to do that. He's a grown man.
22:34 Speaker 02 Right.
22:34 Dr. John Delony? You get to decide, are you going to violate your own boundaries because you feel guilty, you feel uncomfortable, whatever, and you're going to head back into it? Or are you going to say, if he needs something, he'll call me and then I get to choose whether I engage in it or not?
22:53 Speaker 02 Yeah, and that's kind of where I'm at.
22:57 Speaker 02 And it's been a few weeks that we haven't had a conversation. I think he's just, I don't know what he's thinking about it. He just hasn't.
23:09 Dr. John Delony? You know exactly what he's thinking about it.
23:14 Speaker 02 Yeah, because mom is calling me five times a day telling me to apologize and just.
23:19 Dr. John Delony? You know exactly what he's thinking.
23:21 Speaker 02 Yeah.
23:22 Dr. John Delony? So I mentioned this on a recent episode, my friend, Dr. Becky Kennedy, she's a clinical psychologist in New York. She gave me a new definition of guilt and she was talking about mom guilt, but I think it plays to dad guilt and I think it plays to guilt in general when it comes to relationships. It's a really powerful reframe. Can I tell it to you?
23:40 Speaker 02 Yes.
23:41 Dr. John Delony? All right, here it is.
23:43 Dr. John Delony? Is going on a date, planning a date and going on it, and your dad's blowing up your phone because he wants you to read the mail to him. Is going on that date and texting your dad back, Dad, I'll read your mail on Fridays when I always come over and read all of your mail to you.
24:05 Dr. John Delony? Is going on that date, does that make you a bad daughter?
24:10 Speaker 02 According to them, it does.
24:12 Dr. John Delony? No, no, no, no. According to you. Does that violate your values? Making plans as an adult and going on a trip? I mean, going on a date?
24:21 Speaker 02 No.
24:21 Dr. John Delony? Okay. Does it violate your core values? Does it make you a bad person? In your eyes? If you respond to demands for your time at regularly scheduled intervals?
24:38 Speaker 02 No.
24:38 Dr. John Delony? Okay. So, what, the way Dr. Kennedy frames it, and I love this, is guilt is a very important, I'll even call it good emotion, that happens inside your body when you violate your values. You're not doing that here. But when your dad cuts you off because you said, "Hey, I'm not coming over tonight to whatever, bring you ice cream." Or, "I'm not driving you tonight at 8 o'clock to change your oil, we can do that on Saturday." When I told you I was coming over? What you're doing is you're taking his anger, his frustration, his temper tantrum. You're taking it from him, you're shoving it into the middle of your chest,
25:21 Dr. John Delony? and you're choosing to feel his feelings, and you're calling that guilt.
25:28 Speaker 02 Hmm.
25:29 Dr. John Delony? You get what I'm saying? In fact, I'd go one step further and say, "You feel guilty because you've become somebody that you don't trust, because you keep having a bunch of imaginary conversations with them. I'm gonna tell him this and this." And A, you'll never tell him. And, uh, you're like, "I'm gonna quit going over there," and you keep going over there. So your guilt is actually you're violating your own values, which is, "I'm an adult woman, I need, I'm worth having a love life, I'm worth having friends, I'm worth, like, having my own world, and that doesn't mean I also am not gonna take care of my parents. But I get to decide the terms of what taking care of means. It doesn't mean that they have a built-in servant for the rest of my natural life."
26:11 Dr. John Delony? Does that make sense?
26:13 Speaker 02 Yes.
26:14 Dr. John Delony? And there are some significant cultural layers here, right?
26:18 Speaker 02 Yes.
26:18 Dr. John Delony? Like, I want to own, this is a very American way of looking at this problem.
26:24 Speaker 02 Yes, and I think, because I've been here since childhood, I identify more with, with this American way of thinking.
26:32 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
26:33 Speaker 02 But they're just kind of stuck in the decade we moved out of.
26:37 Dr. John Delony? You're my daughter, you do whatever I say for as long as I'm alive.
26:40 Speaker 02 Yes.
26:41 Dr. John Delony? You're my caretaker forever and ever, amen. And caretaker means you do what I say when I say it.
26:48 Speaker 02 Yes.
26:48 Dr. John Delony? Okay. So here's the exercise I want you to go through with yourself before you talk to him again, okay?
26:55 Speaker 02 Okay.
26:56 Dr. John Delony? Number one, I want you to be clear about an or what statement. What's your line?
27:03 Dr. John Delony? If it came down to it, would you move him into your two-bedroom apartment into one of the back bedrooms? Or, if it came down to it, they're going to be on their own? Go ahead and solve that now, because it will frame what you do next.
27:17 Dr. John Delony? And either one of those options is going to be hard to think about, either one of those options is going to cause frustration, annoyance, whatever, but that's just reality. So let's just put them on the table. The second thing I want you to do is, can you batch this caretaking? What I mean by that is, can you call your parents and say, "Look, I love you guys, you're my parents, I'm not going to leave you destitute. I will come to your house on Tuesdays and Saturdays.
27:49 Dr. John Delony? I'll read you, you stack up all the mail, I'll read you what you want me to read you. I'll respond to your texts throughout the day when I can. And if we have errands to run, whatever, Saturday is our errand day, or Thursday is our errand day, or Sundays, whatever, right? Can you batch this caretaking so that you're not on call 24/7/365?"
28:13 Dr. John Delony? Is that possible? And then they get to choose, "We don't want that kind of caretaker. You're a bad daughter. You should apologize. You're terrible. We raised you better than this." And they get to say whatever they want. And it gets to break your heart and you get to grieve it.
28:27 Dr. John Delony? But you don't have to violate your own boundaries and run back into it.
28:34 Speaker 02 Okay.
28:34 Dr. John Delony? You know what I'm saying?
28:36 Speaker 02 Yes.
28:40 Dr. John Delony? And I'm guessing that it's not gonna go well.
28:44 Speaker 02 I have tried this to some extent in the past and no, it has not gone well.
28:49 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
28:53 Dr. John Delony? The fact that your mom is calling you demanding you apologize to your dad lets me know this isn't just an out of control dad. This is a family system.
29:04 Speaker 02 Yes.
29:04 Dr. John Delony? She probably took care of her grandfather and her dad and by God, that's why they had you.
29:12 Speaker 02 Yes.
29:13 Dr. John Delony? Right?
29:15 Dr. John Delony? What's your financial situation? Can you hire help?
29:20 Speaker 02 Um, not to that extent, no.
29:24 Dr. John Delony? Okay. Okay.
29:28 Speaker 02 Yeah, no, they didn't save her for retirement. They are okay on housing because it's government funded. So I don't think I'll be in a situation ever where like they're gonna be homeless.
29:42 Dr. John Delony? And you have a lot more faith in our government than I do these days.
29:46 Dr. John Delony? Good gosh.
29:47 Speaker 02 That's pretty true. You know, um, yeah, so it is kind of tough.
29:54 Speaker 02 Yeah.
29:56 Dr. John Delony? It's tough when we have to have a really firm, reality-centered, grown-up conversation and the adults at the table won't have it.
30:06 Dr. John Delony? They just stamp their feet and want to pound the table like a toddler and say, "This is what's gonna happen." And it's very hard to have a grown-up conversation.
30:15 Dr. John Delony? I hate that for you.
30:19 Dr. John Delony? But I think all the shoulds and have tos and I don't want tos, all that is just getting so heavy. It's so much weight on you. Clear it all off and just say, here's what I'm going to do.
30:32 Dr. John Delony? And no matter what path you take, it's going to be hard. It's going to be frustrating. It's going to be fraught with big, big feelings. And you have to change your plan, you change your path, you know, at some point, but clarity is kindness for you and for them. Seek clarity and be very direct about what I'm going to do and not do. And it's not, I know it's not going to go well. You know, it's not going to go well. But my hope is that just by using the words I'm choosing, I want you to feel re-empowered in this situation to do what the next right move is for you. And if it's to take care of them, hook, line and sinker, make peace with it. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna stop fighting it. It's having anger all the time. Or if it is, I'm gonna draw some pretty firm
31:16 Dr. John Delony? boundaries. And if they want to hate me and cut me off, they're grownups. And that breaks my heart because they're my mom and dad, but they get to do that. I'm gonna do the next right move. Thanks for the call, Jane. I don't think I was any help to you at all, but hopefully I gave you some frames and some homework assignments that will help out, help clarify stuff moving forward. We come back, a woman asks how to reconcile with her family while still struggling to trust them.
31:40 Dr. John Delony? I've been ranting and raving about how much I love poncho shirts for years. If you've seen me on stages or around town anywhere, you've probably seen me wearing a poncho shirt. I'm wearing one right now. But now I'm seeing them on my friends. I'm seeing them in audiences when I'm speaking. I'm seeing them on friends at my church, even my coworkers. Everybody's wearing poncho and everybody's hitting me up for poncho gear. Why? Because it's the best men's performance shirts anywhere. Poncho denim has that soft, amazing broken in feel and it's got a little bit of stretch to it. It's like you've worn it a million times, but it still feels and looks amazing.
32:20 Dr. John Delony? And it doesn't rip or tear. It's just tough. It's awesome. And poncho flannels come in original or western styles. Slim or regular fit and they're guaranteed to be the softest shirts you own. And they're also super tough and comfortable. I don't know how they do it. They're amazing. Head to ponchooutdoors.com/deloney and get 10 bucks off your first order when you sign up with your email. Again, that's ponchooutdoors.com/deloney for 10 bucks off. Go check them out.
32:51 Dr. John Delony? All right. For the last few years, I've talked to couples behind closed doors across the country in big theaters and auditoriums about their marriages. And everyone I'm talking to is either struggling in their marriage. Their marriage is good, but they want it to be great. They want to build a new marriage. They don't even know where to start. They found themselves being co-managers of their house with their spouse and they don't, they went, where is that spark? I know it's there somewhere. Listen, me and my gang developed an app and you guys know I'm not a huge fan of apps. I only use a very few of them, but this one that we've developed is amazing. And here's what it is. It's a micro habits app for your marriage because I'm convinced after reading all the data and sitting with countless people,
33:37 Dr. John Delony? marriages are not going to be solved. Relationships are not going to be rebuilt with big fireworks shows and dozens and dozens of roses and a chocolate cake and let's all move on. It's going to be, they're going to be changed. They're going to be rebuilt one brick at a time, day by day, with tiny changes in our habits. And so I created an app. It's called Together. You can get it in the App Store. Yes, Android people will work on it. Relax. But it's called Together and it is a micro habits app for your marriage. You can do it by yourself or y'all can link accounts together. And I know everybody's struggling financially right now, so I made this app six bucks a month. Cheap as I could possibly get it. Six bucks a month and your marriage is worth $6 a month. Go to the App Store and download it now, or you can check the show notes of this particular show.
34:23 Dr. John Delony? It's amazing. It's good and it will change your marriage from the inside out. All right. Let's go out to Houston, Texas and talk to Alice. What's up, Alice?
34:32 Speaker 03 Hey, how are you?
34:33 Dr. John Delony? I'm good. How are you?
34:35 Speaker 03 Um, I'm all right.
34:36 Dr. John Delony? Awesome. I guess maybe, maybe not. What's up? What's up? Whenever someone says, I'm all right, they're, they're usually not. So what's up?
34:43 Speaker 03 Um, well, I'm, I'm really excited to talk to you. I, uh, have kind of a complicated situation, so I, I'm really interested in your perspective on it. Um.
34:54 Dr. John Delony? Let's untangle it.
34:55 Speaker 03 Yeah, my, I have like a extended history with my in-laws and, um, after a business betrayal, they wanna reconcile and I'm just not sure, um, how or even if we should, um, try to do that.
35:14 Dr. John Delony? Tell me about the business betrayal.
35:17 Speaker 03 Well, um, I, when I met my husband, he had started this business with his brother and, um, you know, over a period of a few years, they had made, you know, verbal agreements. You know, my husband was supposed to get a certain percentage and his brother was gonna do this other thing and so it ended up not being that. And so ultimately, when my husband and I got married, we just moved out of state and my husband lost, you know, a whole bunch of money and, and he claimed to the business. Well, then a few years later, his brother called and wanted him to, um, then purchase it from him.
35:58 Speaker 03 And so we moved back and, um, purchased the business outright. I felt like we were gonna be, um, protected by signing all the papers, all the things. Well, then, um, our employees were still friends with my brother-in-law and he then helped them, while they were still employed with us, to create a competing business with ours. And so when it all came to light, we were just totally devastated and ultimately cut off, um, nearly all contact with my in-laws. And so, um, now a few years later, his brother has reached out and wants to reconcile.
36:39 Dr. John Delony? Did, did your in-laws, like your husband's parents, did they side with?
36:46 Dr. John Delony? Your husband's brother or with you guys?
36:49 Speaker 03 Um, you know, I guess I should caveat my, my hus- there's a big age gap and so, um, between my husband and I, there's, we're 25 years apart and so, I, you know, and my, his parents have both passed away.
37:03 Dr. John Delony? Okay, okay. So in-laws are just your, your brother-in-law and sister-in-law?
37:09 Speaker 03 Correct, yeah.
37:11 Dr. John Delony? Um.
37:14 Dr. John Delony? I mean, there's a lot of mess here.
37:18 Dr. John Delony? Um.
37:20 Dr. John Delony? Your husband and his brother were not wise when they started this whole thing. Right? And I know everything sounds cute and cool, let's just do it with a handshake. It's just, that just assumes it's never gonna rain and it always rains, there's always tension. Right? And so, um.
37:37 Dr. John Delony? We, that, that's not why we're here. What does your husband want to do?
37:42 Dr. John Delony? Is he getting older in age and he's like, man, I don't want this, I don't want to hate my brother forever?
37:47 Speaker 03 Yeah, he does and, um.
37:52 Speaker 03 Yeah, he does and that's created a lot of tension in our marriage too, that he wants me to, um, reconcile and I guess I, I mean, I should add too that, um. My brother-in-law's wife, my sister-in-law, she, she was definitely unkind for the several years leading up to like the big betrayal, like she wouldn't, she just made conversation very difficult, would make snide little comments and so, it's hard for me to be supportive in trying to associate with people that I felt like never respected, me in particular, but us together.
38:29 Dr. John Delony? So, does reconciliation, like that word?
38:36 Dr. John Delony? I, I mean, I'm gonna give like a cheap definition, but it means to make it right.
38:41 Speaker 03 Mm-hmm.
38:42 Dr. John Delony? And so, if a guy that was my brother, if, I have a brother, he's awesome, one of the most integrous guys I know, if my brother and I went into business together, he tricked me, ripped me off, then sold it to me and helped a bunch of other people start a competing business.
39:02 Dr. John Delony? And then, a couple of years later, came back and said, hey, I want to reconcile. Making that relationship right would come with me saying, with him saying, I completely was wrong.
39:16 Dr. John Delony? It would come with making things right with restitution.
39:21 Dr. John Delony? You guys are out 300 grand because of what I did. I'm gonna make this right.
39:28 Dr. John Delony? That would come with, I know I've got to re-earn your trust and so a path back would be awesome. And I'll walk it.
39:38 Dr. John Delony? Reconciliation is not, ah, come on, it's all good. Those are the old days. That's not reconciliation. That's gaslighting.
39:54 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's, that's exactly how I felt. And I mean, he, he approached my husband and said, oh, I'll say whatever you want me to say. Let's just, you know, get along.
40:03 Dr. John Delony? That's cowardice, that's cowardice, cowardice, cowardice and weakness. Wrapped up in, in a suit.
40:11 Dr. John Delony? Strength and integrity is saying the words, I was wrong. I'm sorry. How can I make this right? That's reconciliation. Your brother-in-law does not want reconciliation. He wants to stop feeling guilty.
40:28 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's, that's exactly, and, but, um, my husband does, like, he, you know, he's the youngest, I'm also the youngest, so I feel like that's a part of it where, when you're like the younger sibling, then you look at your older sibling with stars in your eyes all the time and.
40:48 Dr. John Delony? Yeah, but not, not when they, not when they take your livelihood away from you. And they, and they, they burn your livelihood to the ground a second time. So, let's take your brother-in-law out of here for a second. That, none of that matters. Here's what matters. Your husband wants to be in a relationship with his older brother again. You can't do anything about that.
41:08 Dr. John Delony? And so, whining, complaining, nagging, picking at him, like, that won't solve the, the ache in his heart, which is, I want to have a relationship with my older brother, period. I don't care what he's done to me. So the question you and your husband have to ask is, what does that relationship look like and what are my roles and responsibilities as a part of your new relationship?
41:33 Dr. John Delony? And you get to choose, I'm not going to choose bitter and I'm not going to see that man. And if your husband's a man of character, when his brother's like, where's your wife? He says, man, she is still not over what you did to us. And he doesn't, he doesn't default to, oh no, man, you know, women, they just hold on to grudge it. Right? He defends you in front of the person that tried to take y'all's livelihood away.
42:05 Speaker 03 Yeah.
42:05 Dr. John Delony? Right? And if he won't do that, y'all need to address that conversation in your marriage. But he is going to try to be in a relationship with his older brother. Make peace with that.
42:17 Speaker 03 Well, I don't, I mean, that's, that's fine. And I, you know, I have not stood in the way of that. And I think, you know, if y'all want to call each other or meet up, that's great. But the thing that's really bothers me is that my husband's brother is saying that he wants to be an uncle to our kids now and involved in, you know, that role. And that's what in particular makes me feel very uncomfortable.
42:46 Dr. John Delony? Okay, then be, be clear about, like, you're talking a lot about your feelings and those are important. Don't get me wrong, very important. But I want you to be clear. I don't want men who lie and hurt their family members mentoring my son or my daughter. Right? And so it's not like, I feel he's this, because when you're like, I feel he's this. Well, your, your husband's gonna make, well, I feel he's this. And now y'all are in a conversation that is feelings versus feelings and those never end well. And so you being clear about what is it about this brother? I'm gonna write it down so I can have it very crystal clear. I don't want men like this around my kids.
43:28 Dr. John Delony? I don't want them mentoring my kids. I don't want them taking on a paternal relationship with my kids, which are great. My two uncles are incredible and they took on an important role in my life. And so like, but they're good men of character, right? And so like, I don't want men who are not good of character around. That includes your brother. And so when he decides A, B, C, and D, when he demonstrates X, Y, or Z, then we can consider having them around. But just because we share parents, just because we share blood, doesn't mean I'm gonna put my kids in an unsafe situation with somebody who lacks integrity. But that comes from you being very clear and direct. You get what I'm saying?
44:14 Speaker 03 Yeah, I do.
44:18 Dr. John Delony? And as for kids, I would draw the line with kids. I mean, I would put my foot down on kids if you think they're going into an unsafe situation.
44:26 Speaker 03 Uh huh.
44:28 Dr. John Delony? And also I can tell by your voice, your husband doesn't care. He wants, he wants it all just to be wiped clean and made right.
44:35 Speaker 03 Uh, I mean, his brother is very good at manipulating, um, obviously. And so, and I talk to my husband, he's, he's, you know, he sees like, oh yeah, this makes sense. And then when he talks to his brother, he gets all turned around again.
44:51 Dr. John Delony? Yeah. Yeah.
44:56 Dr. John Delony? Writing things down has a way of clarifying those things. There's a reason we sign contracts. That way people don't say, well, that's what you said. No, I didn't say that. I didn't, I meant this. That's, we write it down.
45:14 Speaker 03 So you're saying I should, what exactly should I write down?
45:18 Dr. John Delony? I want you to be honest with yourself. You don't like this guy. This guy's done some awful stuff to you and your family. And you, and beneath that, you don't like his wife.
45:31 Dr. John Delony? She looks at you wrong. She makes mean comments. She's just mean.
45:34 Speaker 03 Well, not that I don't like her. She didn't like me.
45:36 Dr. John Delony? I know, but, but, but you don't like her. Like, just put it out there. It's not, it's not, it's not a moral issue to not like somebody. That's fine. How we treat somebody can be a moral issue, but you don't, we're not all gonna like everybody, right? So, let's put it all down. Why do I not want my kids around them?
45:59 Speaker 03 Yeah.
45:59 Dr. John Delony? Is it because I just don't like him and I don't want him wearing the name Uncle? Okay, well, then we're gonna get over that. He's fine. Or I don't like men of that, that character or lack of character around my children. And if I can help it, um, I'm gonna put my foot down.
46:19 Speaker 03 Okay.
46:19 Dr. John Delony? Right? It's you clarifying and when you're clear on it, then you're not saying, well, I feel this. And your husband's like, yeah, but I feel that. It, it just says if and when your older brother takes ownership, because I want my son around men who say the words, I was wrong and I'm sorry.
46:36 Speaker 03 Yeah, he won't say that.
46:37 Dr. John Delony? Okay. That's one of the, that is one of the defining characteristics of men that I will let mentor my son. Are they men who can say, I was wrong, I changed my mind, I'm sorry. How do I make this right? Cause that is a sign of a person of integrity and a person with wisdom.
47:00 Speaker 03 Yeah.
47:01 Dr. John Delony? Is he a person that realizes I stole and ripped off my younger brother and his new wife? And that was criminal. It was cruel. And man, I was wrong.
47:15 Dr. John Delony? Cause I want my son around men who will take accountability when they really hurt people bad.
47:21 Speaker 03 Right. Because when he was saying, oh, say whatever you want to say. And then, you know, I don't want.
47:25 Dr. John Delony? Passive aggressive cowardice. That's just weakness, weakness, weakness, weakness. Whatever you want me to do. No, that is, you, you take ownership of this and I'll just, I'll, I'll put a stamp on it. No, coward, coward.
47:39 Dr. John Delony? Strength is walking in the door, laying your sword down, taking a knee in front of the family member you tried to steal their livelihood from and saying, I wronged you and I'm sorry.
47:52 Dr. John Delony? That, that is reconciliation.
47:56 Dr. John Delony? But it's not gonna happen. So you have to decide the path. And I just, I guess, I can't give you the path. You gotta decide. I just want you to be clear about what you're frustrated with. Clear about why I don't want my kid around him. Clear why I am not going to go to the family reunion. Husband, you're a grown man. You can do what you want to. Go, I get you wanting to be around your old brother. Um, fine. I don't want to go. I'm not going to go. And he can be mad at you. He can be like, I think you're making a big deal over nothing. Great, cool.
48:27 Dr. John Delony? And if you start to lose respect for your husband. I can't believe my husband's cowering and walking back into this mess. We're gonna get hurt again. Then have the courage to tell your husband. Specifically.
48:40 Dr. John Delony? I'm losing respect in you. I am losing attraction to you. I am losing security and safety with you and trust in you. Because I feel like we're gonna end up right back and he's gonna throw another business deal on the table. And we're gonna be right back in the same boat. And you're gonna be like, yeah, sure. It sounds great. And so it's just being super clear. And once you're clear, then we can say, I don't mind if my kids are around that, or I'm not being around that, or it just, it clarifies our path. When we feel those feelings, awesome, good, and we we clear them up and we get really specific about what we're scared of, what we're struggling with. We're gonna make our path to move forward. Thanks for the call.
49:18 Dr. John Delony? I hate that that happened to y'all. We'll be right back.
49:23 Dr. John Delony? If you come over to my house sometime, you're gonna find all kinds of cool stuff like guitars and art supplies. And you're gonna find one main theme. My family loves Cozy Earth. We love their sheets, their pajamas, their blankets, their towels. Cozy Earth has taken over my house. Why? Cause they're awesome. They're comfortable, their materials last. Listen, when you wash the towels a couple of times, they don't turn into an old rag. They stay an amazing, comfortable towel. Getting into my bed with Cozy Earth sheets after a long, crazy day, or a wild travel schedule. It just makes me go, ah. And seeing my wife and my daughter smile while they're wearing their pajama sets,
50:04 Dr. John Delony? that makes me smile. Listen, Cozy Earth rules. And on all of their sheets and towels, they offer a 100 night trial and a 10 year warranty. So there's no risk to filling your house with Cozy Earth gear. Try them for yourself. Go to cozylearth.com/deloney and use code DELONY and you'll save up to 20% off your entire order. That's cozy, C-O-Z-Y. CozyEarth.com/Deloney. Use code DELONY. Trust me. Bring Cozy Earth into your home. You're gonna love it. All right, Kelly, something cool happened. What is it?
50:40 Speaker 04 All right, this is from Libby in Akron, Ohio.
50:42 Dr. John Delony? Hold on, I want to say this before. We had a live event earlier today and I was speaking to a whole bunch of people and you intro'd me and you said a whole bunch of nice things. And everyone on the show, all they hear is how mean you are to me all the time. And I want them to know, deep, deep, deep down there, Kelly's a really nice person.
51:04 Speaker 04 I meant all of them.
51:05 Dr. John Delony? Thank you for saying nice things.
51:06 Speaker 04 You're welcome.
51:07 Dr. John Delony? You have like three years, you don't have to say anything.
51:10 Speaker 04 I'm good.
51:10 Dr. John Delony? Yeah, but that was very nice. Thank you.
51:12 Speaker 04 All right, so Libby writes, "I've been having problems with my friend of 14 years lately, and so we planned to meet for coffee and go over some of the problems. I took up your strategy and decided to write her a letter. I read the letter to her and it turns out, we just had a lot of miscommunications that we had to talk out. Because of some of your tips, we were able to get on the same page and agreed to start a new friendship. We both feel much better and are so excited to be on the same page again. Thank you for everything you do and how much you change, how much you change and inspire people in their everyday lives. And thank you to Kelly and the team." And yes, I really said that.
51:48 Dr. John Delony? She didn't say that, but I'm gonna let that one slide today. Kelly added that in at the end because she said nice things. Hey, I'm proud of everybody in that situation. That's amazing. Having the courage to say, "Hey, I love you enough to tell you, here's what I feel," and have the courage to hear, "Oh, that's not what I meant. That's not what I meant," to say, "All right, it's clear the deck, let's build it new." That's awesome. Awesome. That's how things will change. Love you guys. Bye.
Previous Off the Record With Dr. K: This Interview Changed My Mind Next My Boyfriend Hides Me From His Kids Page updated October 31, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated