Raging Moderates: Trump Pulls Back in Minneapolis as Democrats Turn Up Pressure on ICE

Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov dig into the political fallout from the killing of Alex Pretti and what it means for Democrats facing a high-stakes choice: use their leverage to rein in ICE, even if it risks a shutdown—or back down. They also unpack the GOP’s growing contradiction on the Second Amendment, as Republicans defend federal agents who killed a lawful gun owner. And finally, they take a look at Melania Trump’s glossy new documentary and what a $40 million payday says about her priorities as First Lady. Follow Jessica Tarlov, @JessicaTarlov. Follow Prof G, @profgalloway. Follow Raging Moderates, @RagingModeratesPod. Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@RagingModerates Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Scott Galloway?

  Support for the show comes from Northwest Registered Agent. Your business identity is everything that makes your business legitimate and professional. With Northwest Registered Agent, you don't just form a business, you start a complete foundation built for privacy, credibility, and growth. That includes registered agent service, a business address, operating agreement, domain, website, professional email, phone number, and built-in privacy. In other words, your home address, personal email, and phone number stay private. Don't pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for what you can get from Northwest for free. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com/profgfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com/profgfree.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  Your heart can tell you a lot about your health. Apple Watch Series 12 measures your heart rate every five seconds with the most accurate heart rate sensing in wearable. So your vitals app, now with heart rate variability, can tell you when something is off. And your readiness score can let you know when to rest and when to push. Hear the story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch Series 12. The features described are for wellness purposes only and not for medical use. iPhone 11 or later required. Based on Apple conducted study of heart rate accuracy, August 2026. Visit apple.com/aplewatchseries12.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  This podcast is supported by Anthropic, the public benefit corporation behind Claude. Everyone's got a hard question about AI. Anthropic was built to surface those questions and share what it finds along the way, because there's hope in hard questions. Ask yours at claude.ai/spotify and keep thinking. That's claude.ai/spotify.

• 1:47Scott Galloway?

  Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Scott Galloway.

• 1:49Jessica Tarlov?

  And I'm Jessica Tarliff.

• 1:50Scott Galloway?

  Jess, how are you?

• 1:52Jessica Tarlov?

  I'm good. I don't want to be weird, but I miss you. It was like a month.

• 1:56Scott Galloway?

  Go on!

• 1:58Jessica Tarlov?

  No, I was thinking about it. I was like, is this an appropriate thing to do? But... A month is a long time in general. And also, you know, when you get used to somebody, I guess this is what happens, like if you get divorced, right? You gotta go out and like date other co-hosts. And I had great conversations with-

• 2:14Scott Galloway?

  Who was your favorite co-host? Who was your favorite? When you cheated on me, who was the best?

• 2:18Jessica Tarlov?

  Um, I mean, Heather Cox Richardson was great in Intellectual Bad, to say the least. Uh, no, Sarah Lawwell was awesome too. And you know, something that was really great about it, I loved how many female voices we got on. Jennifer Griffin, who's an amazing national security reporter, had a great conversation with her. We need to feature more women on the pod.

• 2:39Scott Galloway?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:39Jessica Tarlov?

  The ladies are coming. Um, how was your time off and Davos, you know, all the things?

• 2:46Scott Galloway?

  It was great. I went to Australia. I got to climb the bridge with the boys. I saw that on my family and said, I want to do that. And I went to Singapore. My kids had never been there. I was in LA doing some work. Davos, which was interesting and depressing at the same time. And yeah, it's nice to be back. I feel sort of antsy and, but yeah, it's nice to be back. And fortunately, not a lot happened while I was gone, so.

• 3:11Jessica Tarlov?

  Yeah, no big deal. Slow-moving.

• 3:13Scott Galloway?

  Yeah.

• 3:14Jessica Tarlov?

  Politics in this country.

• 3:15Scott Galloway?

  It's weird when you take some time off when you're not looking at the news every day, which I did not do. I remember when I came home once after being on the road for three weeks. And I fizz, I popped my head into my kid's room. And this was like when I was working really hard. My oldest was six and he was sleeping above his covers. And I could physically discern that he had grown in the three weeks that I'd been gone. And it just really bummed me out. But my point is, when you're in the news every day, you're a frog in water that's getting hotter and hotter and then boiling. And then when you come back after an extended break from the news and you see this shit, I was just, when I first got to Davos and I was listening to the talks and just the mood and the vibe and annexing Greenland, I thought it was just so kind of rattling

• 3:58Scott Galloway?

  and, and jarring to see how much things had changed in the last month with the murders.

• 4:05Scott Galloway?

  In Minnesota, in this annexation discussion and what was going on in Iran. And the two best lines while I was gone were, one was by your co-host Heather Cox-Widgerton. A lot of people have been talking about the need for better training of these ICE officials. And she had the best line, I don't know if it was on the pod with you, she said, that's like saying that the guards at Dachau just needed better training.

• 4:29Jessica Tarlov?

  Yeah.

• 4:29Scott Galloway?

  I thought that was a great line. And then the other line came from Catherine Dillon, who essentially runs ProPT Media. When I was in Davos and just coming back, and I said, I had spent a lot of time on panels talking about the need for some sort of military intervention to kind of push the Islamic Republic over the edge. And I kept saying, you know, they're executing citizens in the street. And Catherine goes, you realize that's happening in America, right? It was just sort of, kind of stopped me in my tracks. Okay, government executing people in the street, executing citizens in the street. And I hadn't taken the time to stop and go, wait, not on the same scale, but that's happening in the US. Anyways, I am happy to be back. In today's episode, we're discussing how Democrats should respond to the aftermath

• 5:13Scott Galloway?

  of the murder of Alex Pratyy, the GOP's hypocrisy when it comes to the Second Amendment, and the new Melania documentary, and what it says about her priorities as First Lady. I'm hoping we do not get to the third subject. That's called a, I could give, zero fucks given.

• 5:29Jessica Tarlov?

  Does this change it for you? Melania will be on the Five with me tomorrow, the day that this comes out.

• 5:36Scott Galloway?

  I don't want to preempt it, but I think she's the worst First Lady in history.

• 5:40Jessica Tarlov?

  Cool, cool. I'll let her know.

• 5:42Scott Galloway?

  Yeah, and I'm, I don't think I've ever heard her speak. I don't, I, I, I know.

• 5:47Jessica Tarlov?

  You have.

• 5:49Scott Galloway?

  Not really.

• 5:50Jessica Tarlov?

  That's all I'll say. Really? Okay.

• 5:52Scott Galloway?

  Have you? Anyways.

• 5:54Jessica Tarlov?

  Yeah, I mean.

• 5:54Scott Galloway?

  I think that'll be, I think they will afford her. I should, I don't know, that's gonna be weird. You gotta be, you know, I find that we're appropriately respectful of the first lady. I think she's not absolutely nothing. And she clearly has, you know, has she spent a night in the White House? Anyways, how many nights have you spent in the White House? Will you ask that for me? It's been 400 days since he was elected or whatever.

• 6:22Jessica Tarlov?

  Or how is be best?

• 6:25Scott Galloway?

  360, 370. That was a what?

• 6:28Jessica Tarlov?

  Be best. Remember her social media bullying campaign? That was her cause? Like reading or getting fit, but it was social media bullying?

• 6:40Scott Galloway?

  Yeah. Ask her what she thinks about chain migration, that you move here, marry a rich guy, get citizenship, and then get all your family members over. Can you ask that? What she thinks of chain migration?

• 6:50Jessica Tarlov?

  You know, I can ask anything I want, and I will consider all of these options.

• 6:56Scott Galloway?

  Is this unfair?

• 6:57Jessica Tarlov?

  All right, let's talk about Minneapolis.

• 6:59Scott Galloway?

  All right, let's get into it. The killing of Alex Perry has pushed Democrats into a fork in the road moment after two US citizens were shot dead by federal immigration agents in Minneapolis. Democrats are threatening to block DHS funding unless ICE is reined in, even at risk of partial government shutdown. Meanwhile, pressure is now coming from multiple directions. A federal judge in Minnesota has ordered ICE's acting director to appear in court over what he called extraordinary violations of court orders, while senior Border Patrol commander Gregory Bezinon and some agents are leaving Minneapolis amid mounting backlash, signs that federal crackdown may be hitting its limits. Jess, is threatening a shutdown the only leverage, real leverage that Democrats have to force accountability

• 7:43Scott Galloway?

  on ICE? And if not, what else could, what else could be done here?

• 7:47Jessica Tarlov?

  I think it's your main source of accountability in Washington. I think we have seen that the biggest source of accountability that you can push for is what the brave people of Minneapolis-St. Paul have been doing in taking to the streets and doing it in, you know, minus 20-degree weather and in totally fearless fashion. I am...

• 8:11Jessica Tarlov?

  Continually overwhelmed by how brave and good these people are and the way that they talk about Minnesota values and American values and living by the credos that all of these uber Christians are supposed to, like helping your neighbor and taking in the tired and the sick and the poor. They have mobilized so quickly considering this. I mean, the amount of organizations that are working on the ground, the amount of individual citizens that are doing things like running makeshift food pantries and making sure that people who are hiding in their homes or homes of American citizens can get the things that

• 8:56Jessica Tarlov?

  they need. I was talking to someone who's doing this. The orders for diapers and children's medicine through the roof. It's freezing cold there, right? Their kids are getting sick, just like my kids are getting sick here and they can't come out of their houses. And their neighbors are all stepping up for them. And I think that their example is one for the ages. And so that is a way to get accountability. There's Greg Bavino out, Kristi Noem and Corey Lewandowski getting, you know, a big talking to by the president. I agree with you from what you said yesterday on our rapid response video that Kristi Noem will not be long for that job. But when the legislators are sitting there in Washington looking at what their options are, besides supporting the people of Minneapolis and

• 9:41Jessica Tarlov?

  wherever ICE may go next, this shutdown is the biggest way that they can push for accountability. And I think that it is very smart strategy. So what they want to do to be a little bit boring is they want to take the mini bus spending bill that already exists and chop it up into five or six pieces so that the DHS section can be carved out. I want to note that for people that are saying like, you know, we're going to defund ICE or abolish ICE, ICE is already funded at 87% higher level than it was the year before, even if this $10 billion doesn't go through. That's the amount of money that's in question here. But I think that it is definitely worth continuing to push Senator Thune on it.

• 10:23Jessica Tarlov?

  And the Democrats are asking for five big things in their kind of reform package. That DHS must cooperate with state probes. You would think that that would be normal and natural, that you would have cooperation when you're investigating things like American citizens that have died, but that has not been the case. That CBP actually stays at the border, not allowed to roam wherever they want. They have to be within that 100 miles. That you need a warrant for arresting people or breaking down doors. Fourth Amendment, shout out. Agents have to have IDs and wear body cams. And we're waiting for that body cam footage from what happened with Alex Prady. Apparently, a couple of those agents were wearing body cams. And ICE has to get out of churches and schools.

• 11:04Jessica Tarlov?

  So those are kind of the the five big asks that are percolating in the conversation. What do you think about the shutdown strategy?

• 11:12Scott Galloway?

  I like it. I'm just worried that if we cave again after a certain amount of time, that we're going to look even weaker. So I'm all about a shutdown as long as it's, as long as we all hold hands around the campfire and agree that we're not going to open until, you know, we get something. And my sense is we got nothing the last time. So I'm all for a shutdown. I just don't know if the people who will affect the shutdown have the backbone to, I mean, basically, we blinked in the last shutdown. So I'm all for it. But guys, unless you're gonna, unless you're gonna actually wait until something happens, something tangible, unless there's real give on the other side and you can legitimately

• 11:55Scott Galloway?

  claim victory, then we don't need to put the nation through this again. So, you know, it's like I said, that our military incursions overseas are like Bond films. And that is, Bond films always nail the opening. They're always amazing. And then they go on to be a bad, mediocre, or a great film. The Democratic actions, when they have some power, always start really strong. And then we cave. So, you know, I'm all for it, but if they propose a shutdown, they get a shutdown. And we go through this nonsense again, and you have parks closed and veterans not getting healthcare and Marines not getting paid. And then after 25 days, we have some incredibly

• 12:37Scott Galloway?

  flaccid, impotent 90-year-old Democrats stand up and say, "It's not working. We're caving." Oh, my God, we're going to go to the single digits in terms of popularity. So, yeah, I'm all for a shutdown as long as it's real and people understand there's going to be real sacrifices to be made. And, you know, it's going to be difficult. So, any reaction to that?

• 12:58Jessica Tarlov?

  Yeah, I mean, the good thing about this versus the previous shutdown is it would be a partial shutdown. So it won't be this scale and scope of what happened before. And especially if the bills are-

• 13:10Scott Galloway?

  Can you say more about that? Like, what is that? I understand that it's, I like the term "use" many best. What does that mean versus what would, what would the tangible differences in terms of how it impacts ordinary Americans and our federal services? How would this be, how would this shutdown be different than the last, what I think was a complete government shutdown, or threatened at least?

• 13:28Jessica Tarlov?

  Yeah. So essential services, which allegedly kept going during, you know, the big shutdown, would continue, obviously, during this. But if you are able to target the DHS pot of it, there is concern that you don't want, like FEMA not to be working, for instance. We're going to have another huge snowstorm next week. So that's on the list of concerns. We all want TSA to continue to work. There are people who also want CBP to continue to work just in its capacity that it should. So that's kind of what's up for discussion at this particular moment in terms of the tangible implications of it. And I think that we'll know a lot more if any of that will come to fruition in the

• 14:12Jessica Tarlov?

  next 24 hours, maybe even when this comes out, because Senator Thune is going to have to make a decision about whether he is going to split it up. If you don't have the bill split, it is going to have much broader implications for Americans. And there are a lot of Republicans who are dug in, saying, "Absolutely not. We don't want to split this." That is Thune's inclination, that he doesn't want to. But it is interesting to see that, you know, in your terms, the cavers, the Senate Democrats who ended up- Saying in the end, no, actually, let's just reopen the government. I have no appetite for this anymore. Like the Angus Kings of the world, of the word, Jean Shaheen, they've all said, absolutely not. Like, we're going to the mats on this one. And it's interesting

• 14:53Jessica Tarlov?

  to see the caucus even more united than they were over something like healthcare, which affects every single American, right? Like, we all, we all need healthcare, whether you're on Medicaid, Medicare, or have private insurance, um, or some combination. And I think that that energy is going to be put to good use in hopefully pushing us towards some of these reforms that I just read out. Rand Paul, who's the chair of the Homeland Security Committee, very, very powerful, is really hot on this. He wants all of the agents who were involved to be suspended. He's calling out the fact that Alex Preddy was referred to by government officials as a domestic terrorist, a would-be assassin right out of the gate. And there

• 15:38Jessica Tarlov?

  are other powerful conservative voices that are speaking a similar language to the Democrats. And so hopefully that'll put enough pressure on soon. The other component to it, which I don't know, it doesn't satisfy the, the same mechanism, I guess, but is this conversation over impeaching Kristi Noem. And Kyle Cheney at Politico has been doing incredible reporting on this, and he's tracked 2,300 cases since July, in which federal judges have ruled that ICE has illegally detained people without bond or due process. 2,300 since July in the read. And, um, in the intro, you mentioned how Todd Lyons, who's the acting ICE director, is going to have to go in front of a judge that is completely unprecedented. You have

• 16:19Jessica Tarlov?

  Tom Homan going into Minneapolis, and there's another guy named Rodney Scott, who is the head of CBP, that Lewandowski and Noem had sidelined before, who is now being reactivated and is going to be sent to Minneapolis, too. So they are moving fast and with a sense of urgency that indicates that they know that this funding showdown is something that would look really, really bad for the administration. And, and Trump is sensitive to those kinds of optics. The Articles of Impeachment, just for some color on it. Obstruction of Congress is one article, which is about not letting Congress do their oversight, not letting them into ICE facilities. Violation of the public trust, so your First Amendment, Fourth

• 17:04Jessica Tarlov?

  Amendment, Second Amendment, now with Alex Preddy. And then also charges of self dealing for Kristi Noem of inappropriately using tax dollars to do ICE recruitment and giving contracts out to friends, namely senior DHS official Tricia McLaughlin, who is a spokesperson. Her husband got a massive contract and it didn't go through the normal tendering process. So I think that the impeachment of Kristi Noem is looking more and more like a good idea. And John Fetterman, who said that he doesn't want to shut down the government, came out this morning and said that Kristi Noem must go.

• 17:39Scott Galloway?

  So just along the lines of it's the boring stuff that moves the needle. It's important to revisit what you referenced, and that is after Renee Good's death, a bunch of Democrats refused to advance legislation that provided funding for ICE. But seven Democrats crossed party lines to pass it.

• 17:56Jessica Tarlov?

  In the House.

• 17:57Scott Galloway?

  In a 220 to 207 votes in the House. And if you look at those numbers, it means if those seven Democrats had in fact gone along with their colleagues and refused to advance legislation that provided funding for ICE, it wouldn't have gone through. And it's important that we hold those people accountable. And the seven representatives were Henry Clay, Rep. Don Davis, Rep. Lauren Gillan, Representative Jaren Golden, Representative Vicente Gonzalez, Representative Marie Glusenkamp Perez, and Representative Tom Swasey. I think it's important to highlight that Representative Swasey has come out and said it was a mistake.

• 18:30Jessica Tarlov?

  And Gillan has as well.

• 18:32Scott Galloway?

  Oh, thank you for that. But this ICE funding would have been severed had those seven Democrats voted to restrict ICE funding.

• 18:40Jessica Tarlov?

  Sorry, I don't want to be like Debbie Downer or Tracy Flick of this podcast, but just to add that if they do split up the spending bill into the individual packages, part of the concern is then it has to go back through the House and you're not going to get the support that you would have, that you got the first time from like Swasey and Gillan for it. I mean, the Texas reps are probably going to hang on and continue to vote for it. So Senator Thune is thinking about that as well, that it would then get kicked back to Mike Johnson and has to go through that process again.

• 19:13Scott Galloway?

  And then the question is, what are the demands from the Democratic side to get the funding? And Schumer put forward a framework of restrict reform and restrain.

• 19:28Scott Galloway?

  Um, Jess, what the fuck does that mean? Shouldn't, shouldn't, shouldn't the condition be something along the lines of all ICE out of major cities for the rest of 26? Shouldn't it be something that like, regular people can fucking understand?

• 19:41Jessica Tarlov?

  So abolishing ICE has its highest level of support that we've ever seen. It's gone up 20 points just from over the summer, 46% support, 41% oppose. Independents are plus 12 on it. Republican support is up 10% over the last six months. The most interesting finding that I saw in the polling around this is that 2/3 of Democrats and the majority of independents say abolish ICE is not, quote, abolish immigration enforcement. They want to figure out a way to do this that is commensurate with American values and our judicial system. And, you know, the, the things that I read off in the beginning about making sure that people have warrants and body cams and cooperating with state and local officials when you're

• 20:25Jessica Tarlov?

  doing probes, that's all part of that. But I agree with you that there needs to be some, you know, that bumper sticker effect, right? Like some clear explanation of what a new reformed ICE would be like. It seems like ICE is a, a name that we are not going to be comfortable with again. So the Democrats should have a clear proposal for that that doesn't involve people, you know, ticking through, well, we're gonna get this, we're gonna get this, we probably won't get that, but we're gonna get this and we're gonna get this. Because I think that you need to find a way to come out there and to say, we know that there are undocumented people in this country that are committing crimes and we need to get out of, we need to get them out of here.

• 21:08Jessica Tarlov?

  And I think to some degree that involves also talking about blue city mayors cooperating to get those hardened criminals out. That's what Tom Homan is gonna try to do when he's in Minneapolis. It seems like Mayor Fry and Tim Walz are open to those conversations. I'm not talking about, you know, full access to jails in the way that they're asking for, but like in California, they, they work with ICE all the time to do this. And Brian O'Hara, who's the police chief in Minneapolis, has talked about that too. He did it in Newark where he was the police chief before, and he's done it in Minneapolis too. So I think that there is a lot of ground to be gained by sounding like you are not against immigration enforcement writ large and not allowing the right to cast abolish ICE as...

• 21:54Jessica Tarlov?

  We don't care who's here, right? Like hundreds of thousands of people streamed across the border on a monthly basis for a couple of years there, and we don't really care who they are because these tragedies happen. You have to care about both.

• 22:07Scott Galloway?

  Yeah, so I received a email or a message from someone in the White House Borders Chair, Tom Homan's office, saying that the people in the office listen to his pod, so I'm just gonna ask if they pass along a message that if he removes ICE from Minnesota, I'll give him $51,000, and that's a serious offer.

• 22:26Jessica Tarlov?

  Just an extra $1,000 on the COVID bag?

• 22:29Scott Galloway?

  Well, you know, he's done last for 50, so 51K, Zar Homan. Yeah, I don't, I think the Democrats, again, are demonstrating this restrict, restrain bullshit. Like, they need specific, realistic demands where they can point to a victory. I don't even know what that means, restrict and restrain. What does that mean? So, again, we're figuring out a way through what I feel is incredibly weak leadership to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory here. If you try and read the tea leaves, you have said that you believe that Secretary Noem will be removed, that Homan's moving in. They haven't replaced Bavino, they just asked him to maybe kind of stop getting...

• 23:12Jessica Tarlov?

  There are conflicting reports, though. I think that he will be forced into retirement, which, one of the reports that I saw said, you know, that that was coming quickly and it was already on the schedule, could be moving up. Saw another report that he doesn't have access to his social media accounts anymore because he did such irreparable damage while tweeting away. So, I don't think Bavino is going to be a figure that we are going to be seeing a lot of.

• 23:42Scott Galloway?

  So you think his days are numbered?

• 23:43Jessica Tarlov?

  That would be my expectation. That would be what would be smart for the administration, and I believe that's what Tom Homan wants. And Tom Homan has been fighting against the Stephen Miller, Kristi Noem, Corey Lewandowski, Greg Bavino wing. Of the government for months now, and it has been widely reported that they have been trying to sideline him and Tom Homan, you know, his, his approach is even too harsh for me, but Tom Homan has served both Democratic and Republican presidents in the past and has said over and over in interviews, like went on the Daily and did a great interview where he talks about his focus on getting hardened criminals out of this country. And

• 24:23Jessica Tarlov?

  I think that that would be a good sign for us if Trump is really ready to hand over the reins. I still worry about Stephen Miller because I worry about Stephen Miller all the time, but we are in much better hands if it's Homan. And I'm sure he, there's no love lost there with Kristi Noem and I'm sure he would be just fine seeing her go.

• 24:41Scott Galloway?

  That's where we are. We're hoping for Homan.

• 24:43Jessica Tarlov?

  Hoping for Homan.

• 24:44Scott Galloway?

  So the, there are cracks, many, I mean, real fissures beginning to emerge in form here. A New York Times, CNN, University Poll from this month said 61% of voters believe that ICE tactics had gone too far. My question is, who had the 39%? But anyways, many Republicans have also expressed concern and have called for an investigation. Senator, Senators Murkowski, Cassidy, and Tillis have all asked for investigations. Even Representative James Comer of Kentucky, who has been a staunch ally of the president, suggested on Fox News's Sunday Morning Futures that Mr. Trump should consider removing ICE agents from Minneapolis and sending them elsewhere. Trump's overall approval rating has slid to 38%, according to the latest

• 25:25Scott Galloway?

  Reuters Ipsos poll, matching the lowest mark of his second term. And there are now 140 co-sponsors on a bill to impeach Kristi Noem. So this does, it does appear as if these cracks are turning into pretty broad sinkholes, if you will. All right. With that, let's take a quick break. Stay with us.

• 25:49Scott Galloway?

  Support for the show comes from Nutraful, the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand used by over one and a half million people. With age comes knowledge, patience, and for some, hair loss. Didn't say it was all good things. And for those who want to do something about it, there's Nutraful. Nutraful has formulas built for men at different life stages. They have Nutraful Men for guys age 18 to 49, plus the new Nutraful Men 50 and older. That's the first product of its kind specifically for men over 50. You can now address the key root causes of thinning wherever you are in life. Grow visibly thicker, fuller hair in just three to six months. Start Nutraful today and make the hat optional. Visit nutraful.com and enter promo code PROP G for $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping.

• 26:34Scott Galloway?

  Find out why Nutraful is the best-selling hair growth supplement brand at nutraful.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com, promo code PROP G. That's nutraful.com promo code PROP G.

• 26:52Scott Galloway?

  Support for the show comes from Upwork. Trying to scale your business? At some point, you're probably going to hit a point where you need some help. Sometimes the best way to break through that is bringing in the right talent at the right time. Upwork can help. Upwork is a one-stop platform where you can find, hire, and pay expert freelancers across more than 125 categories. Whether you need specialized skills for a single project or extra support to keep up with demand, it's easy to connect with experienced professionals, review their work, and find the right fit. You can move faster without taking on the commitment of full-time hires. And for businesses that need the very best talent, Upwork Business Plus provides access to the top 1% of freelancers on the platform. AI-powered matching connects you with qualified candidates in under six hours, cutting down the time spent searching.

• 27:35Scott Galloway?

  Upwork also takes care of contracts, payments, and other administrative tasks, so you can spend less time managing logistics and more time focused on what's next. Visit upwork.com/propg right now and post your job for free. That's upwork.com/propg to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com slash propg. Upwork.com/propg.

• 28:03Scott Galloway?

  Support for the show comes from Vanta. As AI adoption grows, so does your company's security risks and requirements. New frameworks, audits, and vendors keep piling on, but your team isn't getting any bigger. Most compliance tools promise automation, but you're really stuck doing all the work by hand, chasing screenshots, validating controls, and playing catch-up when audit season comes around again. Vanta works differently. The regentic trust platform is built to scale with you, not slow you down. With over 1,400 automated tests across 400-plus integrations, Vanta collects evidence and monitors your controls year-round, cutting your audit prep by 82%. Plus, you can access the Vanta agent everywhere you work, whether your team is in Vanta every day or living in tools including Claude or Cursor. Want proof?

• 28:48Scott Galloway?

  Over 16,000 fast-growing companies like Ramp, Ryder, and Harvey save time and resources while scaling fast with Vanta. Learn more at vanta.com/profg and get $1,000 off. That's spelled V-A-N-T-A dot com slash profg for $1,000 off.

• 29:10Scott Galloway?

  Welcome back. The killing of Alex Preddy has blown open a glaring contradiction at the heart of Republican policies and beliefs, specifically something central to the Republican Party, and that is gun rights. For decades, the GOP has argued that the Second Amendment exists to protect citizens from an overreaching federal government. Let's say that again. The Second Amendment exists to protect citizens from an overreaching federal government. Yet now, Trump officials are arguing that a man lawfully carrying a gun somehow forfeited that right and deserved lethal force. As even the NRA and gun rights groups push back, the question isn't whether Preddy was exercising a legal right.

• 29:55Scott Galloway?

  It's why that right suddenly seems to disappear when federal agents pull the trigger. Just how does the GOP square its longstanding warnings about tyrannical government with defending federal agents who kill a citizen for lawfully carrying a firearm?

• 30:11Jessica Tarlov?

  I think some of them are just trying to bury their head in the sand. And you're seeing with many others, with the majority of them in how they're responding to this, that they have loved their gun longer than they have loved Donald Trump. And that this is the one amendment that they are not willing to play his little games with. And I think that it in particular hit the gun rights community hard to see an administration official, the first assistant US attorney, this guy Bill Asayli, who tweeted, if you approach law enforcement with a gun, there's a high likelihood they will be legally justified in shooting you. And seeing it in black and white doesn't allow you to live in the chaos

• 30:56Jessica Tarlov?

  that the Trump administration thrives on, right? Because they can't use their echo chamber against that, because that's just freely available for you to look at and to read. And then that fact that Trump also posted a photo of Alex Preddy's gun, you know how they removed it? And then they took a picture of it, like, sitting in the front seat of a car? And Trump wrote, this is the gunman's gun, loaded, parentheses, with two additional full magazines, but we haven't seen the magazines. And it says, and ready to go. What is that all about? I think that having the tangible evidence of how this administration actually views the Second Amendment when they please, is what really

• 31:39Jessica Tarlov?

  felt threatening to so many people in the conservative party, the gun rights activists, but also just the regular Trump supporters. And they've been posting videos all over social media saying, I voted for Trump three times. We cannot stand for this. The Second Amendment means something very specific. And I've seen a resurfaced old Charlie Kirk tweet that they're using about the Second Amendment and how the point of it is to rise up, to be able to rise up against a tyrannical government. I just wanted to shout out Jon Stewart. His monologue was great. But he said, "I wasn't shocked when you guys gave up the First Amendment. And I wasn't shocked when you gave up the Fourth and the 10th and the 14th at Trump's behest. But the Second? Come on, guys.

• 32:24Jessica Tarlov?

  Guns are your whole personality." And a way better delivery than I did, obviously. But I think that you're really seeing that come to fruition. And this reminder as well, that Trump is new to Republican politics on a relative basis. I mean, this guy is an independent from Queens, right? Like, he's not somebody who was carrying a gun, let alone caring about what happens when you need to rise up against your government. He was building high rises here and opening hotels. And I think that they see how weak he is on one of the most serious issues to them.

• 33:04Scott Galloway?

  The best argument that the NRA has ever made, and the best argument for the Second Amendment, in my view, and I'm not a gun rights person. One of the things I love about the UK is I'm just never worried about someone popping off a cap when I'm watching, you know, The Fantastic Four in a movie theater. But the best argument I've ever heard calls on history, and that is when the Nazis marched into Poland and France and other European countries. Those countries had done a very meticulous job of tracking gun ownership. And the first thing the Nazis did was get a hold of those records and then go around the city and collect all the guns from the civilian population, such that there was no ability to push back. That is, in my opinion, a really, really valid argument.

• 33:45Scott Galloway?

  And also, to be fair, gun owners, similar to Mr. Preddy, who go through the training and are legally licensed to carry and conceal and carry, are seven to 10 times less likely to commit a crime than ordinary citizens. Now, there's some other data, when this moment you buy a gun, you're more likely to kill yourself, unfortunately, because it's like, okay, you wake up, things are bad, things are really dark, and like, I know, I have, I'm an answer to this problem. But in terms of people who go through the proper training and have no criminal record, which Mr. Preddy did not, if you just look at the data, these people are less likely to commit a crime than someone wandering around without a gun who might have committed a misdemeanor.

• 34:29Scott Galloway?

  So this really does fly in the face. And then you have all these pictures popping up that I love of Kyle Rittenhouse, who shows up to a demonstration, brandishing a semi-automatic rifle. And that, and then those turned are posters and collateral, and he's invited to the Republican National Convention. So this really does appear to be, I don't think that's the second biggest fissure with the American public. I do think the American public, certain Judeo-Christian values or certain, like to think that we're the good guys and we hold on to a set of principles and morals. And when Secretary Noem came out and basically defecated on the grave and the memory of

• 35:11Scott Galloway?

  this individual by calling him a domestic terrorist, and basically saying he was there to, I believe it was, what do they say, murder federal agents, or what was the term? Massacre. Massacre. It's just, there is a certain decorum that when people die, you try to give them the benefit of the doubt, that you don't urinate on their tombstone and start lying. I think that, in my view, I think that was the moment, I saw that, and I thought, okay, granted, I do not understand many of the motivations and the forces that got President Trump elected by, I thought, I think that's the moment when a lot of people said, okay, this has just gone way too far. I'm sort of curious.

• 35:57Scott Galloway?

  Around how your co-hosts on The Five are responding to the gun rights issue because what I was, if I didn't know what The Five was, I would assume it's the most liberal talk show in history. I would think it was The View because all I get is clips of you making very strong points that are not left, but what I'll call center-left. So if my only, if my only interact, if I didn't know what The Five was, I would think it was this crazy liberal show on the Mother Jones Network because all I get are clips of you because the, I guess the algorithms have figured out I know you and I like your views. But when they're faced, what, what is the general retort back around Mr. Preddy and the contradiction

• 36:39Scott Galloway?

  in gun rights here from the other four members of The Five?

• 36:43Jessica Tarlov?

  Well, it's definitely the algorithm that has us synced up because I can assure you that a good half of the internet thinks that I'm the stupidest woman that ever lived and are making unfair comparisons because I did bring up Kyle Rittenhouse who not only showed up with a gun, brandished a gun, shot and killed two people, injured another one, found not guilty, that he was, it was self-defense, but much more controversial situation than what Alex Preddy did and certainly considering the fact that he was disarmed when he got 10 bullets in him. I was actually surprised because we, we talked right before I went into work yesterday and I thought that there would be more agreement about what had happened.

• 37:25Jessica Tarlov?

  And I got into it a bit with Kayleigh McEnany, who was Donald Trump's press secretary in the first term and she agreed-

• 37:35Scott Galloway?

  Oh, is she thirsty? She is definitely there for one person trying to get another job. That's how I read it, whatever.

• 37:40Jessica Tarlov?

  This job is way better for her, for sure. I would not, Kayleigh is not leaving, but she was talking about how I jumped to a conclusion in saying that Alex Preddy was murdered and had this line that I was no better than Kristi Noem in doing it. And it was one of those could've, would've, should've because right after I was like, you should've just, you should've just said, I'm not- The head of the Department of Homeland Security, I'm not responsible for the security and safety of 330 million Americans. I am somebody who's paid for my opinion and I have watched a ton of video on this and listened to a lot of people in positions of power, including governors, states like Oklahoma and Vermont, who have said the same thing. But that's my kudawata shut up.

• 38:23Jessica Tarlov?

  On the gun rights issue, it was really interesting listening to Joey Jones, who is a veteran, lost both of his legs with an IED incident. He's a gun owner, there are many pictures of him on the internet with his closet of guns or his whole basement of it, it's, is a lot of guns. He said something about being a Second Amendment absolutist and then went into things that Alex Preddy had done wrong. And that argument doesn't make a ton of sense to me because the people who you're seeing online and the NRA and all these gun rights groups are Second Amendment absolutists in the absolute sense.

• 39:05Jessica Tarlov?

  And it brings up this question of what are the things that you're doing that maybe put you into a less safe environment, which definitely going to a protest is less safe than sitting on your couch and watching heated rivalry. But that there were things that Alex Preddy did that put him in more of a vulnerable position, like allegedly, though we don't know, he didn't have his permit and his ID on him. Again, we have no verification that that was the case. And just the act of having a gun when you go sends a signal that you are there as an agitator versus as a peaceful protester. Now, I, I don't see things that way, but this is somebody who, you know, has a very

• 39:50Jessica Tarlov?

  big voice in the military community and the conservative community. That was his take on it and you can look that up online and, and people liked that just as much as they liked me talking about the comparison with Kyle Rittenhouse. So that's what I heard yesterday.

• 40:07Scott Galloway?

  Well, FBI Director Cash Patel said, open quote, "You cannot bring a firearm loaded with multiple magazines to any sort of protest that you want. It's that simple."

• 40:17Jessica Tarlov?

  Yeah.

• 40:18Scott Galloway?

  Director Patel, have you? Have you seen any of the footage from January 6th? Or the guns there? So those folks were in the wrong. They did not have rights to bear arms at that protest. Also, this is a bit of a, this is a tangent and a side note, but something that struck me. I don't think, and I'm guilty of this. What infects a lot of big tech CEOs is that they don't understand the vulnerabilities of certain special interest groups because they've never been victims themselves. They're mostly white dudes who have grown up in wealthy households. And I'm guilty of this. I remember during COVID, my sister, I was walking with my sister and she jumped out of her skin when a homeless person kind of stirred and crossed the street. And I said, that was a bit of an overreaction.

• 41:03Scott Galloway?

  She said, Scott, you're 6'2", 190, easy for you to say. And it dawned on me that men live in a different world. And that has really come to bear or front and center for me recently. One, tracking some of the comments you get. And also, someone left a voicemail and Kara, who's Unafraid, played the voicemail on Pivot. And it was so angry and vile. And I said to her, I said, I know I have just as many people who don't agree with my views as don't agree with yours. I never get those voicemails. And there's also, to some of your comments, the really vile ones, there's a twinge of threat, of violence and just plain misogyny that men don't have to put up with.

• 41:46Scott Galloway?

  And by the way, I'm someone who believes that if you're a true feminist and will know and want to have equality, when you're subject to the same bullshit that we're subject to, I think that's what equality is. But what I would suggest to a lot of young men is to recognize what I did not recognize. And that is, there is an unfortunate thin, it's not even a vein, but it's a thin avenue, a river of people, especially men, who are more comfortable saying really vile, borderline, threatening violence statements to women than they do to men. And some of the comments I've seen in your feed and some of the comments I see in Kara's

• 42:29Scott Galloway?

  feed and some of the feedback she gets, there's a twinge of- You know, bitch, be careful, I'm coming for you.

• 42:38Jessica Tarlov?

  Yeah.

• 42:38Scott Galloway?

  And men just do not receive that bullshit. And to recognize, if you are a young man, that it's, you have to force yourself to have more empathy and turn the volume down and acquit yourself with more grace. Because unfortunately, there is a large vein of people, especially men, and also some women. The woman who left this file, misogyny takes misogyny is not sequestered to just men. But to recognize, all right, would these statements fly? Or is there an unhealthy vein of threat here? Because the target, you know, has indoor plumbing.

• 43:19Scott Galloway?

  But I have finally recognized that, you know, it's like, I know, we'll get comments of like, well, welcome to our world, Scott. But long-winded way of saying, young men, I think, need to realize that you live around these things, around threat, in a different world than women face. All right, my virtue signaling TED Talk is over.

• 43:38Jessica Tarlov?

  I liked it, and it's true. And it's a, especially, once you become a mom and you are responsible for protecting these little people, you have a heightened awareness for the level of threat. Obviously, I'm in a particular profession that brings it on more. But you're, you know, mama bearing all the time. And Tara is bolder than I am. I, I get really freaked out and very upset with the new administration of Twitter. Because also, when you put in the report of threats, which seem quite obvious,

• 44:20Jessica Tarlov?

  sometimes they'll write back and say, oh, it doesn't meet our, our standards for that. And you're like, what are your fucking standards? If not, like, you deserve to die. So, anyway.

• 44:31Scott Galloway?

  There you go. All right, let's take a quick break. Stay with us.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  This podcast is supported by Anthropic, the public benefit corporation behind Claude. Everyone's got a hard question about AI. Anthropic was built to surface those questions and share what it finds along the way, because there's hope in hard questions. Ask yours at claude.ai/spotify and keep thinking. That's claude.ai/spotify.

• 45:08Speaker 04

  It's me, the

• 45:11Speaker 04

  We don't need the jingle twice.

• 45:14Speaker 04

  Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars. Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app. Fine. No one deals more deals than Please stop. Touche.

• 45:36Scott Galloway?

  Support for the show comes from Nutriful, the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand used by over one and a half million people. When you get to the stage of life where you start to notice hair loss, you have a few options. You can shave it all off and enjoy your new look, or you can commit to a new team whose logo you wouldn't mind constantly spotting on a hat, or you can actually restore some of your hair's former glory with Nutriful. Nutriful has formulas built for men at different life stages, such as Nutriful Men for guys aged 18 to 49, or the new Nutriful Men 50 and older. It's the first product of its kind specifically made for men over 50. You can address the key root causes of thinning wherever you are in life. Grow visibly thicker, fuller hair in three to six months. Start Nutriful today and make the hat optional.

• 46:21Scott Galloway?

  Visit nutriful.com and enter promo code PROVGE for $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. Find out why Nutriful is the best-selling hair growth supplement brand at nutriful.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com, promo code PROVGE. That's nutriful.com, promo code PROVGE.

• 46:44Scott Galloway?

  Welcome back. Before we go, just hours after a federal immigration agent shot and killed Alex Preddy in Minneapolis, the Trumps are inside the White House hosting a movie night for their billionaire friends. Part of Melania Trump's reemergence into the spotlight this week, her heavily marketed Amazon-backed documentary Melania, which comes out on Friday and reportedly earns her a $40 million payday from the deal. So I asked one of the folks who are prof G to stream this and then put it on one of those old machines. It puts it on VHS tapes such that I could get the tape and put it in my VHS recorder and player, which I still have, so I could erase it. Is that wrong, Jess? Is that wrong?

• 47:22Jessica Tarlov?

  I don't think it's the best use of a prof G employee's time, but I think it's kind of cool. You still have a VHS player? Is that for home videos?

• 47:33Scott Galloway?

  None of that was true. It was an attempt to be funny. I see this as more as just, this is just another example of Amazon. I'm, you know, I've been, I don't know if you've heard this, Jess, but I'm the executive producer of an original scripted drama coming out next fall.

• 47:48Jessica Tarlov?

  I did hear that somewhere.

• 47:49Scott Galloway?

  Yeah, no, it's sort of a big deal in Hollywood now. And I've gotten to know or understand a little bit about the world of documentaries and everything. And it's actually, interestingly enough, there's a bidding war for Ed Norton's new film at Sundance. I heard that yesterday.

• 48:03Jessica Tarlov?

  That's awesome.

• 48:03Scott Galloway?

  Congratulations, Ed. But for Melania Trump to have received $40 million, this is nothing, this is kind of along the lines of putting money in a crypto account for the president. That, first off, that documentary would have never been made because she's a strikingly uninteresting person in a very interesting situation. But $40 million for documentary, this doesn't happen. So this is an attempt by Andy Jassy and the good folks at Amazon to just curry favor with the White House and the administration, which is another form of kind of soft corruption. Anyways, are you gonna see the documentary, Jess?

• 48:39Jessica Tarlov?

  Um, I wasn't really planning on it. Like I mentioned at the beginning, she's gonna be on the show tomorrow. Um, so, you know, we'll ask her, some of your thoughtful proposed questions. I just wanted to add that it was the forty million for the documentary and they've also spent thirty-five million promoting it. And early reports are that the tickets aren't selling, which doesn't surprise me here and abroad. And I think that it's going to be one of those kind of inside baseball things where it's the, you know, the toast of Mar-a-Lago and has no resonance outside of that bubble. And I get it, the Trump administration is a big pay-for-play scheme.

• 49:22Jessica Tarlov?

  And why would that be any different when it comes to the first lady versus what you would be paying to the president himself? But I do always wonder, and it's, I mean, I like a compliment as much as the next girl, probably a little bit more than the next girl. And everyone likes to be flattered and things like that. But it really eats at me when I think that somebody is being nice to me or giving me false praise because they want something or they think I can help them with something. And what must it feel like? When you're just being flattered and sucked up to all the time and that it has nothing

• 50:05Jessica Tarlov?

  to do with actual merit or who you are as a person? That's what I really struggle with. And that goes for all of them. Like it, it doesn't, you know, Trump standing there holding Maria Machado's Nobel poster that he, that she made for him, like he was a six-year-old. Like, how can you live with yourself if you are that dependent on false adulation from people who are actually doing important things with your, with their lives?

• 50:36Scott Galloway?

  I think you're being a little harsh. I think it's a dramatic story of a, about quiet desperation of having to marry a billionaire and still feeling underpaid.

• 50:47Jessica Tarlov?

  I got that joke.

• 50:48Scott Galloway?

  You know, I might just watch it because I want to hear how the subtitles handle. I turned subtitles on. I want to hear how the subtitles handle really long pauses of someone who doesn't understand the question.

• 50:59Scott Galloway?

  Is that wrong? It's probably a hate crime. I'll give her this.

• 51:03Jessica Tarlov?

  Have I become a subtitle person, by the way, though? I put it on for a rivalry and now I love it.

• 51:10Scott Galloway?

  Next thing you know, you'll be watching TV and your Legals twitch and be like, oh my God, restless leg syndrome. I need to get that drug being advertised.

• 51:18Scott Galloway?

  Yeah, yeah, I don't. Jesus Christ, let's move on.

• 51:23Jessica Tarlov?

  There's nowhere to move. It's the end of the show.

• 51:24Scott Galloway?

  It's the end of the show. There we go. Good luck with Melania, Jess.

• 51:28Jessica Tarlov?

  Thanks.

• 51:29Scott Galloway?

  Take care.

• 51:38Speaker 02

  This podcast is supported by Anthropic, the public benefit corporation behind Claude. Everyone's got a hard question about AI. Anthropic was built to surface those questions and share what it finds along the way because there's hope in hard questions. Ask yours at claude.ai/spotify and keep thinking. That's claude.ai/spotify.

• 52:04Speaker 05

  Hi there. I am fully charged and here to tell you Toy Story 5 is now on Disney Plus.

• 52:10Scott Galloway?

  It's been too long, cowboy.

• 52:12Speaker 05

  Woody, Buzz and Jesse are back for a brand new adventure with a seriously cool new tech. What? Holy butterscotch! You said it, Jesse. So save your batteries and watch the global phenomenon at home. And the best part, it's perfect for the whole family. Power up your movie night and watch Disney and Pixar's Toy Story 5, now streaming on Disney Plus, rated PG.

• 52:34Speaker 06

  Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile with your summer price forecast. Now, unfortunately, we're seeing rising costs across the country with possibility that big wireless hates you 100%. Now, over here at Mint Mobile, we're seeing sunny skies and dropping prices, every plan to just $15 and left. Give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch.

• 52:54Speaker 07

  Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only. Greater than 50GB may slow when network is busy. See terms.