Joy 101: Pat Benatar & Neil Giraldo

“We toured with our kids… Haley learned how to walk in Minneapolis, Hana was roller skating in the Forum, they were riding their bikes inside Madison Square Garden.”- Pat Benatar Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is Presented by CVS. Shop your local CVS, right around the corner. Experience the full conversation on the "Joy 101 podcast with Hoda Kotb" wherever you listen to podcasts. For more information please visit us at www.joy101.com/podcast https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joy101.com%2Fpodcast&data=05%7C02%7CBrianBurton%40iheartmedia.com%7Cfc1e970ae43b441d0ced08dee99c0da1%7C122a527e5b714eba878d9810b495b9e3%7C0%7C0%7C639205053611907002%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8IVjtzyYTiIOY8uiQQOnZmfJI2gxWYPGg8kHAlMs0u4%3D&reserved=0 Find Pat Benatar & Neil Giraldo tour dates and more at www.benatargiraldo.com https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.benatargiraldo.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7CBrianBurton%40iheartmedia.com%7Cfc1e970ae43b441d0ced08dee99c0da1%7C122a527e5b714eba878d9810b495b9e3%7C0%7C0%7C639205053611929692%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ZHDckUIpusqj1T8PcYqjuHbIlRold1nW6Et%2By%2FAca4w%3D&reserved=0 See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:11Hoda Kotb?

  Okay, um, we don't know when this is gonna air, but I'm just gonna talk about New York in this moment because something has happened in the city of New York that has been life-changing, game-changing, everything. All right, so if you're a Knicks fan or if you're not a Knicks fan, it doesn't really matter because everywhere in the city, there's been this crazy electricity, this crazy connectivity. This, you see, you see a Wall Street guy in a Patagonia vest, high-fiving a guy who's working on a truck. Like, everybody is together in this moment. And I realized one of the feelings I love most of all in the entire world is when a group gets together

• 0:52Hoda Kotb?

  and feels a collective sense of awe, a collective sense of wonder, a collective sense of, oh, my gosh, I can't believe we did this. So whether you're in the West Village or in the Bronx or whether you were up in Westchester County or it didn't matter, in Harlem, it didn't matter where you were. We all felt the same feeling. And I realized that's what is missing in life. People didn't watch the game in their homes. They ran down on the street to watch the game on a, on a projector on the side of a building because they wanted to be in community. So I want to capture that again. I want to keep that flow going, keep that thing going. Part of the thing that we do at Joy 101, my company, is we want to bring people together. We want people to look each other in the eye

• 1:36Hoda Kotb?

  and hold hands and have a feeling. And the other thing that struck me about what is going on in New York is, think about this, New York is a one-mile island. And on that island are people from every country, every religion. They speak all the languages. And somehow, we're all squeezed in on this island. And I always thought, if New York City can work, then the world can work. If everybody can live on top of each other and work, then the world should be able to work. It's just another beautiful thing about New York City, a place that I love, a place that has come alive,

• 2:19Hoda Kotb?

  a place that feels kind of reborn. It's a beautiful time to be alive in New York City. Which brings me to my next guest. Because when I think about collective awe, I think of music. I think of, think about your favorite concert. Think about how you felt when you're in the audience and you're sweating because it's outdoor and everyone is swaying together. And sometimes you feel like the singer makes eye contact with you. There's nothing better than that feeling. It's like, oh, my God, she saw me, he saw me. One of the greatest singers on earth is a Grammy winner multiple times over. Her name is Pat Benatar.

• 3:00Hoda Kotb?

  She and her husband Neil created magic for all of us for so many years. Pat is one of those people that if you've ever seen her in concert or even heard her song on anywhere, Spotify, the radio, it doesn't matter, you just feel uplifted. She defines collective awe. She and her husband combined have done things that no other musical artists have ever done. Well, now, Pat and her husband are not only parents, they're grandparents, and they are living this beautiful life, and they are continuing to sing. So I would like you to welcome to my podcast, Pat Benatar and her husband Neil.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.

• 3:46Hoda Kotb?

  Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS. I've realized that joy doesn't always come from those big moments. Sometimes you find it on the most ordinary day. I'll pop into a CVS for toothpaste or paper towels, and it never seems to be just a quick errand. Maybe I'll grab a delicious Well Market Trail Mix or wander over to the Joy Word Collection. That's part of the fun. So the next time you're checking something off your to-do list, stop by your local CVS pharmacy. You might go in for one thing and leave with a little more joy. Visit your local CVS pharmacy, sponsored by CVS. Every purchase is a financial decision. So it's worth asking, what am I getting out of this? If you're using the Chase Freedom Flex Card,

• 4:29Hoda Kotb?

  you can maximize your cash back on things you need. More ways to earn, more ways to get rewarded. Sign up for the Chase Freedom Flex Card. Learn more at chase.com/getflex. This is a paid collaboration with Chase Freedom Flex. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, N.A., member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Offer subject to change. Terms apply.

• 4:52Speaker 02

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• 5:21Speaker 03

  I'm Melissa Jelton, host of the What Happened to Her podcast. We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story, a case the police wrote off as a suicide in a snowstorm. Her family never bought it, and the man they suspected wore a badge.

• 5:36Speaker 04

  You never know who that devil is because he's wearing a disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform.

• 5:42Speaker 03

  And you can get access to all episodes 100% ad-free with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to iHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today.

• 6:01Hoda Kotb?

  I'm so excited to talk with you. I mean, I was just talking at the top of this about like, what it's like to be in like, collective awe. And we're talking about how the Knicks won the title and how New York...

• 6:14Speaker 05

  So amazing.

• 6:14Hoda Kotb?

  Was that crazy? I mean, and it, I saw so many parallels. I was so happy we were interviewing you today because when I saw the crowds on the street and everybody in unison and everybody feeling the vibe. I mean, to, I was imagining your life, what it must feel like to...

• 6:32Speaker 05

  Well, it's not like that.

• 6:34Hoda Kotb?

  But, but, but it's that feeling. It's like, like, I, I get that feeling from this sporting event, concerts, when it's like a collective wow.

• 6:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's great.

• 6:44Hoda Kotb?

  So when you guys, when you guys are on stage and you see what you've been able to witness, only a few people get that perspective. Describe what it's like to be on stage in a moment like that, Pat.

• 6:56Speaker 05

  It's just, I mean, it's great because we're together. That's great. And this is our 47th anniversary this year.

• 7:03Hoda Kotb?

  Wait, you said 47?

• 7:04Speaker 05

  47th musical anniversary. So we've been performing together since we were basically children. And, you know, and yeah, so it's great. I mean, he's great. He's like, crank, you know, he's having the best time. He loves to be out there being nuts, you know?

• 7:21Speaker 06

  Listen, it's, uh, it's chemical, you know? It's, you get endorphins, they start coming out. And you look at the crowd and just playing music and trying to be inside a song and seeing how the people react and smile. They all smile together at the same time. They all put their eyebrows down at the same time. It's, it's like a, yeah, it's an event. It's like a basketball game with more three, three pointers.

• 7:45Speaker 05

  And it's, it's, you know, for us, it's history. We've been together for so long. And all those things are, you know, going through your head really quickly as you're performing now, all the times that you've been there together. And it's, it's just an amazing, great feeling.

• 7:59Hoda Kotb?

  And Pat, I loved hearing, I mean, I love hearing about your life, but I love the fact that the time that you knew that you could sing, you were, I think you, you described it being in fourth grade, and you were finally in chorus, and you belted something out. And what did, what happened in that moment that made you realize, wow, I might have something special here with these pipes?

• 8:20Speaker 05

  Because they made me go to the principal's office, and I thought I was in trouble. So I was like, something, something's happening here. My parents had a, they called my parents and they came in after work. And I was just sitting on the seat outside the principal's office, just terrified that I did something really bad and, you know? And yeah, so it was just, it was just a moment. I mean, we all had that, you know? It's all, everybody gets that moment when you kind of know that, hmm, this might be something happening here.

• 8:48Hoda Kotb?

  So they, they knew that you could sing. Did you just love singing? Or was it just something you were good at at that time?

• 8:54Speaker 05

  I just sang all the time and too much to everyone's chagrin. And same with Spider. Spider was an Italian family, Sicilian family, playing. And what time, when do you start, six? Guitar, six?

• 9:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, six, six years old.

• 9:07Speaker 05

  Six years old because his father wanted Neil and his sister to play Italian songs after church. So, you know, you just do this from little, and it's all you know, and it's all you want to do. And you just think it's so normal. None of it's weird, you know? It's just part of like breathing, so.

• 9:23Hoda Kotb?

  That's so funny. So Neil, so six years old, you get handed a guitar, and what happens? Did you just start playing it?

• 9:28Speaker 06

  Well, yeah, um, well, not at first. I mean, it was difficult at six years old, trying to play against steel and wood. You know, your fingers aren't ready for that or anything. But yeah, my father, my parents wanted me to do these Italian songs, which were phenomenal. It was a lot of fun doing it. My sister played accordion. And it was just something that felt like Patricia when she started singing. It felt so right to her, right? And since I wasn't very good at school, in school, I went to first grade when I was five years old, which was a total mistake.

• 10:01Speaker 05

  Disaster.

• 10:03Speaker 06

  And when the guitar was in my hands, it, it felt perfectly normal. I mean, I felt it, it really solved all the neurosis and problems I had emotionally at that time. It just went, hey, here you are, you know?

• 10:16Hoda Kotb?

  I got this thing.

• 10:17Speaker 05

  It kind of finds you, you know? It does, it finds you. You're just walking around in the universe, and, and, and music and art find you. They do.

• 10:26Hoda Kotb?

  Well, I, you know, when I was reading, Pat, about your life and how you had this boyfriend when you were just a kid, and you went and got married and decided that music wasn't going to be your thing, even though you got into Juilliard.

• 10:40Speaker 05

  No, I didn't get in. I didn't even go. I didn't even audition because I, I didn't do it because I decided to get married at 19 like an idiot.

• 10:51Hoda Kotb?

  So, so tell me about that decision. What, why, why did you decide to do that?

• 10:55Speaker 05

  Decide to not go to Juilliard?

• 10:57Hoda Kotb?

  No, decide to get married at that, at that age. Why was that something you chose?

• 11:00Speaker 05

  Because we were young. We were high school sweethearts and he was gonna get drafted and we, I thought he was gonna die in Vietnam, but he didn't. And, and I, I got married, but I needed, I needed a better last name. My last name was Polish and really long. And, um, and then I had a practice being married so that when I met that guy, that I would know how to behave.

• 11:23Hoda Kotb?

  Okay. First of all, how cute are you two? Where are you? How come you're not in the same house? Or are you upstairs and downstairs?

• 11:27Speaker 05

  We're, we're in our, our separate offices.

• 11:30Hoda Kotb?

  Oh, oh, you're in the same house?

• 11:31Speaker 05

  We always do it like this is better. Cause I like my better lighting and I don't like his lighting. We just, you know.

• 11:38Hoda Kotb?

  You know, most people who've been married for this long, work together, live together, do interviews together, do everything together. Get, I don't know how, can, can, can keep this up. Most, most married couples can't put together a piece of Ikea furniture before they're like, get away from me. I need my space. What's the magic?

• 11:55Speaker 05

  We had those days too, mostly for him. You know, I'm pretty bossy, but, um, he's real nice and

• 12:03Speaker 05

  I don't know. We just like each other. We still really like each other. I think, right?

• 12:08Speaker 06

  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We laugh a lot. So.

• 12:13Hoda Kotb?

  By the way, you can tell. By the way, you can feel it. Okay. So, so Pat, after you've had this, this marriage and this, and this bank teller business, you decided to go down the music road. Just tell me that story.

• 12:25Speaker 05

  You know, we were stationed at, uh, Fort Lee. So I was, um, I just, I was working in a bank and going to school, um, part-time, uh, for singing, but you know, I had no intentions of really doing anything professionally. I just had given it up by that point and I don't know. I just got, I just got sick of being, having a regular life and I just looked in the paper and they had kind of like their, their version of the Village Voice. And it had like, you know, ads about like singer wanted, you know, all this kind of stuff. So there was a, an ad for some band that was looking for a singer and I just, I said, okay, fine. And I went and I did it. And, uh, that was it. And I just, you know, I did that for a few years and then I moved back to New York in 75, which was maybe the last time the Knicks had a comeback.

• 13:11Hoda Kotb?

  Full circle, full circle.

• 13:14Speaker 06

  Probably, yeah.

• 13:16Hoda Kotb?

  I'm, so, but breaking in in New York ain't easy. It's not easy for anyone and it wasn't easy for women in rock and roll during that time. So how did you crack that nut?

• 13:25Speaker 05

  I don't know. I mean, I was just, I was hell bent on doing it and I just, I mean, I had no idea what the plan was. Spider was, you know, we call him Spider. So that's Neil. But, um, Spider was, um, Spider was already playing with Rick Derringer when I met him.

• 13:38Speaker 06

  Talk about yourself. Talk about you, Patricia.

• 13:40Speaker 05

  No, no, but wait, I want to get the timeframe. So when we, when he and I met, I, I was, I had already signed a record deal. I mean, I worked for a long time. I worked from 75 to 78. And I worked with songwriters. As soon as I started working with songwriters, I wasn't writing songs yet. Um, but I've, I, I started my voice, my own voice started to emerge because before that I was singing songs that were by other people. And you know, you always have that tendency to kind of emulate a little bit. So the minute I started working on original songs with others, my voice started to emerge, but it wasn't really there yet, but the idea was there and I had the idea. And then when he and I met, um, it was great because he was

• 14:21Speaker 05

  ahead of me because he had been playing with Derringer. They were playing stadiums. I was just beginning and the two of us together, it was just a perfect match, you know? And, um, you know, we basically, we basically put that band together and learned everything. You know, just the two of us and, and that's how it started. So.

• 14:40Hoda Kotb?

  So Neil, I mean, you know, when, when you think of a lot of these duos, they're usually two dudes. When you walked in and saw Pat and thought to yourself, am I going to be teamed up with her? What were your thoughts?

• 14:51Speaker 06

  Well, I, I make a joke out of this and Patricia knows it already. She said, when I received the call, cause I just finished making this record with Rick Derringer. So, um, I got this call to meet this singer that wanted to put a band together and, and then I did and I says, maybe I've heard of him before and the, and the person said, well, it's not a him, it's a her. And the first thing I said was, she good, is she good looking? And I'm, and I'm just kidding around. I'm just being like.

• 15:15Speaker 05

  You were only 23. What were you gonna say?

• 15:17Speaker 06

  I'm just goofy like that. Honestly though, honestly, it, it, you know, it was a dream come true on so many levels, right? Uh, artistically, first level is that all's I wanted was to work with a great singer. And Patricia just excelled at that. I, I even told her when we met, I says, I hope you don't blame me and I'm the guy, not the guy responsible for destroying your voice because there, there is, what we're gonna do here is gonna be a whole lot different than what you've been doing. So, uh, you know, I, I grew up in a household where you, you, you always respect women. It was very important. My sister, I,

• 15:57Speaker 06

  uh, they used to make fun of my sister. And when I'd go to school at the bus station, I, I would go there like four years, three years younger than her. I, I'd go, if somebody gotten like made fun of her, I, I'd stand up for her. I'd fight them. I didn't care how big they were. So it was really important. Um, that, uh, the respect for women. So I really didn't, honest to God, I, I didn't care. All's I wanted was a great singer. Patricia was like, absolutely perfect. And she still is. Look at her. She's perfect.

• 16:28Hoda Kotb?

  Oh my God.

• 16:29Speaker 05

  I mean, but it was, it was kismet. I mean, when we met each other, we, I mean, it was instantaneous. We knew on so many levels. I mean, musically it was, you know, I mean, just insane. Um, he just played one chord and I knew, I mean, I had been, you know, I had been working, like I said, for three years and I, everybody was patting me on the head. I was saying, you know, I want to do this. I want to be like, you know, Robert Plant. And they were saying, well, why don't you, why don't you be like Liv? Good darling friend of ours. And, and she's having great success. And I'm like, no, no, no, that's not what I mean. I want to, I want to be like Keith and Mick and Robert Plant and Jimmy Page. I wanted to like the, a partnership and they were all patting me on the head going, uh, yes. And then, but nobody really got it. And then, but Mike Chapman got it.

• 17:13Speaker 05

  He knew and he had known, he knew Spider because he had done the record with Rick Derringer. And, um, and he said to me in one of the meetings we had when I was, you know, ripping my hair out about what I was trying to do. And he said, I, I, I got your guy. That's what he said. And he called, he called, the record company called him and then he came, you know, to the, down to New York. Were you in, uh, Bearsville? Where were you?

• 17:39Speaker 06

  I was in Woodstock.

• 17:39Speaker 05

  Woodstock. And he came down, he came down to New York to meet, we were just gonna meet each other, see if we got on and well, the rest is history. So.

• 17:50Hoda Kotb?

  It's so, but you said patting on the head, you know, someone said that. And look, in my career over many years, there've been many, many of those where people like, yes, we, I'll get right back. No, he's gonna do that. You're gonna do this. Just that feeling. And you're a fighter, Avi, from the beginning, uh, Pat, but how did you like hold on to what you wanted to do? When I'm sure everybody said, oh, you know, Linda Ronstadt, go down this aisle, go down this road, go down that road. How did you fight that while, how did you fight it?

• 18:19Speaker 05

  It wasn't, I mean, it wasn't hard to do because I was so convicted and committed. I mean, I just, I had an idea. And I was absolutely positive it could work. Um, it was difficult in the fact that every single day, somebody was trying to stop you from doing that. Or like, you know, just like I said, they were just, you know, condescending and you know, misogynistic and everybody was just like, yeah, okay, whatever, you know, that kind of thing. And so it, that part was a pain in the butt. Yeah. That was just annoying as hell. Um, but you know, when we got together and we just, you know, we were formidable together. You know, we, because, I mean, you know, the way he played and everything and, and the balance of, of how I was singing, how I was approaching the song and how he was playing.

• 19:03Speaker 05

  It was undeniable that we had something happening, you know? Um, so I think that it was really, I think we would have done well on our own, each of us, but together it was something entirely different, you know?

• 19:16Hoda Kotb?

  I think we spend so much of our lives waiting for the big moments, the birthdays, the vacations, the milestones. But the truth is, some of the happiest moments show up on the most ordinary days. So like this, I'll stop into a CVS because I need one thing. Somehow the best part of the trip is never the thing I came for. So maybe I'll grab a delicious well-marked snack or maybe I'll wander over to the Joyward Collection. It's really full of fun, cool, seasonal decor, thoughtful little gifts. And those little discoveries that make you so glad you stopped in. I have to tell you, if you're an Extra Care member, you're gonna save on things you're already buying and those extra bucks really do add up.

• 20:00Hoda Kotb?

  Just watching that total go down at the checkout never, ever gets old. I know life's busy. We're all juggling a lot. And that's why I think those little unexpected moments of joy matter so much. So, the next time you're running errands, stop by your local CVS pharmacy. You may go in for something you need, but don't be surprised if you leave with something that simply makes your day a little brighter. Visit your local CVS pharmacy. Sponsored by CVS. Halloween has a funny way of making you buy things you'd never normally buy. A 10-foot skeleton? Sure. A full-size fog machine? Why not? Three bags of candy that somehow become six bags of candy? It happens.

• 20:43Hoda Kotb?

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• 21:24Hoda Kotb?

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• 22:02Hoda Kotb?

  Neil, did you see any of the sexist stuff toward Pat? Did you witness it?

• 22:07Speaker 06

  Um, I mean, it wasn't, I was used to it because of my sister. You know, people making fun of her, just being, you know, looking at her as a, as whatever, looking down. I didn't like that. Uh, I, I said something, I did things. I mean, I, I wasn't happy about it. And I just tried to channel and keep ourselves so tight, Patricia and I, and the band, keep it so tight together that I wouldn't let anything, I wouldn't let anything, you know, infiltrate that.

• 22:37Speaker 05

  Plus, he knew, he knew I was going to go in there with guns blazing. He knew that. He knew me. He knew what was gonna happen when they did it. I mean, I would go into the radio station, you've probably heard this story. I would go into the radio station, you know, they would only have one token female on the playlist for the day, or the week, whatever, just one, you know? And I would go in there and before I would go in, our record, the record company rep or the manager would say to me, "Don't, don't give him the finger."

• 23:08Speaker 05

  And I go, "Okay." And I, I would come out and I would be smiling because the, the, I guess I can't swear, but the a-hole of music director said, "Why don't you just sit down right here and we'll see if we can get that record played?" And so, of course, I was like, "Yeah, right." You know, like, that's it. So, I came out and they would go, "You did it, didn't you?" I'd say, "Yes, I did." So, I mean, Spider knew I was not gonna take any crap from anybody.

• 23:36Hoda Kotb?

  So, what was the moment when people took you seriously? I know that your music was great. You had, I mean, everyone knows you, Pat, because, in fact, I was at the gym this morning going, "I'm interviewing Pat Benatar." And guys who were in their 30s and guys who were in their 60s were all like, "Pat Benatar", like something, there was a moment where everything crystallized for everybody, how it affected all these generations.

• 24:00Speaker 05

  I don't know. I mean, it was, we were chasing it. Don't you think, Spy, that we were chasing it? I mean, we were, it was, it happened really quickly, the, when Heartbreaker was released, um, you know, we knew we had it. I think that when we recorded the song, the minute we were, the minute we had, that we're rehearsing it, and then when we did the first take, we knew we had it. And I just think that we were chasing it after that. We were running behind it. It had a life of its own. It took off and, you know, it went from clubs, sold out and people out in the street to, you know, the next thing was arenas and the next thing, you know, it just kept going. So, we were chasing it. I mean, it happened really quickly. And, and, you know, that, that pretty much convinced everyone.

• 24:46Speaker 06

  You have to go behind the curtain, which you, which you don't know, a lot of people don't know, is that when we started working together, uh, we worked really hard, Patricia and I. And I would tell her all the time about, you know, because what I do is, I don't look as a, I don't think of myself as a guitar player. I think of myself as a musician and a songwriter, producer. And I only use it as a tool. I started playing piano when I was 11. I started playing drums when I was 13. So, when we met, I basically was telling Patricia, "Don't you want to write your own song? Let's write our own stuff and let's build this, this thing up." And, and she listened and she, and that's the whole beauty of this. She was such a great, early on, you gotta understand, a great student in that because what she was

• 25:30Speaker 06

  doing prior was a lot different than when we got together, when we joined, right, our, ourselves together. And I, I had total respect for her at all times. And I, when I heard her sing, I knew that we can do anything. We could do absolutely anything we wanted, which was perfect for me because I want to explore all these genres. So, when it started happening, the, it, people took it for, uh, serious because, you know what? We were damn serious and people, "They're gonna mess with us." And that's the way it is, you know?

• 26:06Hoda Kotb?

  Wow.

• 26:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, people say stupid stuff and they did, and at radio stations and things like that. But that, that stopped.

• 26:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, it stopped right away. It did. Yeah, it did. Yeah.

• 26:15Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah, success works. Pat, would you have, do you think you would have made it without, uh, Neil?

• 26:21Speaker 05

  It would have been different for sure. I, I, I mean, because we, we started that first record, we started in the heat of the night, and we had recorded six songs that, that, that, um, did go on the record that you all know. But what it, what happened, I mean, we recorded it with some of the top musicians in New York, studio session people and great, great players. I mean, amazing. And I just remember standing there, just like thinking to myself, "Oh, God, this is not it. This isn't it." And I remember that Terry Ellis, who was the president of the record company, when we had done the six songs, and I, I knew, I knew it was wrong. I knew it. And he said to me, "You know, it's the first time. I don't want you to expect too much."

• 27:06Speaker 05

  And I said, "What? I expect everything."

• 27:10Speaker 06

  He already knew, though.

• 27:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, but he knew too. And we scrapped it. And that's when Mike Chapman called him. We recorded them, again, the one, the ones that we kept. And it was a whole other thing. And that was it. And once we, once we played together, that was, it was exactly what I'd been hearing in my head. So, I knew we had it. He knew we had it. I mean, we were just, I don't know, it was just, it was a thing.

• 27:37Hoda Kotb?

  You know, and at the peak of all of this stuff, you find out at one point, uh, Pat, that you're pregnant. And I found it so interesting that the record label was like, "Cool, glad you're pregnant." Anyway.

• 27:50Speaker 05

  No, they were not cool.

• 27:52Hoda Kotb?

  They were like the opposite of, "This is what you're doing anyway." Tell me about what that was like.

• 27:56Speaker 05

  It was ignorant. It was ridiculous. I mean, we had been, you know, we'd been together, we were, we were together since 1979. And, um, we had been trying to, you know, we got married, which they hated, you know? I mean, they tried to, they, the minute they realized that this was gonna, this was going to be an unholy alliance, they, they loved it until they realized that we were so tight, that this was gonna be a problem from now on. And they tried to destroy, they destroyed our relationship right from the beginning. I mean, they did.

• 28:25Hoda Kotb?

  What, what do you mean?

• 28:26Speaker 05

  Because they didn't want, they thought that if they could, if he was not there, they would be able to control me better, which was a mistake. I mean, because that wasn't gonna be true anyway. But the fact is, they were so dumb. I mean, they were so happy that we had done all this great work, but then they realized that they had no more control. When, when we got married, they were furious that we got married, but, you know, what were they gonna do? So, but they were really furious when I got pregnant.

• 28:53Hoda Kotb?

  That is insane, by the way.

• 28:54Speaker 05

  They were so ignorant. And they, I remember the manager calling me up and saying, "Why would you do something like this?" And I was like, "What? Are you guys nuts?" I mean, you gotta remember the time of the world.

• 29:06Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 29:06Speaker 05

  I mean, the only other person I knew that was doing what we were doing was Chrissy Hynde. And I saw her backstage when she had Natalie and, you know, it was, it was me and her. And she's, I said to her, "How are you doing this?" She goes, "I'm not." I mean, it was just, there was no handbook for this. You know, one of, usually one of you stayed home with the baby, you know, whatever. And now both of us were there. We never, once we had Haley, our first child, our first daughter, we never toured without our kids. We toured with our kids only.

• 29:38Hoda Kotb?

  Wow.

• 29:38Speaker 05

  So, it was nuts. But I mean, you had to just, we were winging it. And we had no idea what we were doing. We had fun, though.

• 29:45Speaker 06

  Yeah, you know, the, uh, the, the manager being mad, I, I, you know, you, you, you could see that side of, of where they were at. Because think about two things, money and control. Which one's more important? So, what they decide, what they decided was, they decided was, control was more important. But then when they realized that, "Wait a minute, if we get control, we don't get creative." Because if I can't do what I do best by trying to make those songs that we write or whatever to make them hits, they looked and went, after, so after we, after we got married and everything, it's, it, it changed. And things definitely changed when they realized,

• 30:27Speaker 06

  "We still can make a lot of money from them. Hell with the control." You know, it just, control and money.

• 30:33Speaker 05

  And they were never gonna win. We were relentless. And that was it. I mean, they just, you know, it was a fight they were never gonna win. So, but they tried. They did try.

• 30:42Hoda Kotb?

  This spirit girl is so intoxicating. Because you have like, you're, you know what? It's so clear to you. You're like, "No, I was not quitting, period, full stop."

• 30:51Speaker 05

  Oh, no.

• 30:51Hoda Kotb?

  Were there ever any moments where the sexism, the manager, anything got to you to a point where you were saying, "Pat, you know what? You're like, this is too much."

• 31:01Speaker 06

  No, no.

• 31:02Speaker 05

  No, no. Because it made me so, I mean, I was so feisty anyway, and I just got crazier and it just made me crazier. I mean, I was, don't forget, I sang classical music and musical theater for most of my life before this. And I was a nice girl from Lyndon Hurst, Long Island, who sang and had a great time and loved theater and all that. And then, you know, I want, because inside was always this, you know? And so, once I, once I, I drug it out, once Spider drug it out, we, I knew, that was it for me. I was so happy to be there. And I was like, "Bring it on. What do you got? What else you got?"

• 31:42Hoda Kotb?

  What else you got?

• 31:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:44Hoda Kotb?

  So, what's, what was harder, uh, motherhood or, uh, being a music star?

• 31:48Speaker 05

  Oh, God, motherhood for sure. Motherhood's like the Peace Corps. Do you remember the old slogan, "The hardest job you'll ever love? This is it, okay?" This is not for the faint-hearted, okay? We've got two monster daughters who are just...

• 32:05Speaker 05

  You know, they're coming from here. You know what I'm saying? And they were just raised right. They're crazy. And you know, it was, it's nuts. And he's the greatest. He's so good. He's such a great girl dad. He's like amazing. He did great. It was like a nightmare.

• 32:23Hoda Kotb?

  How did you do it?

• 32:24Speaker 05

  Fabulous. They're fabulous. I mean, they're such great women. They're just great. I mean, they're, they're so centered and solid and just, you know, just feisty. It's sweet. And I mean, I couldn't have asked for better.

• 32:39Hoda Kotb?

  I think we spend so much of our lives waiting for the big moments. The birthdays, the vacations, the milestones. But the truth is, some of the happiest moments show up on the most ordinary days. So like this, I'll stop into a CVS because I need one thing. Somehow, the best part of the trip is never the thing I came for. So maybe I'll grab a delicious well-marked snack. Or maybe I'll wander over to the Joyward Collection. It's really full of fun, cool, seasonal decor, thoughtful little gifts, and those little discoveries that make you so glad you stopped in. I have to tell you, if you're an Extra Care member, you're going to save on things you're already buying. And those extra bucks really do add up.

• 33:23Hoda Kotb?

  Just watching that total go down at the checkout never, ever gets old. I know, life's busy. We're all juggling a lot. And that's why I think those little unexpected moments of joy matter so much. So the next time you're running errands, stop by your local CVS pharmacy. You may go in for something you need, but don't be surprised if you leave with something that simply makes your day a little brighter. Visit your local CVS pharmacy, sponsored by CVS. Halloween has a funny way of making you buy things you'd never normally buy. A 10-foot skeleton? Sure. A full-size fog machine? Why not? Three bags of candy that somehow become six bags of candy? It happens. Which brings me to the Chase Freedom Flex Card,

• 34:08Hoda Kotb?

  the savvy decision that will earn you more cash back on the everyday purchases, plus the extraordinary Halloween tricks and treats. With Freedom Flex, you earn even more treats on your Halloween and everyday needs. You get 5% cash back on popular rotating quarterly categories, 3% on dining and drugstores, and 1% on all other purchases. More ways to earn, more ways to get rewarded. That's no tricks, all treats. More ways to earn, more ways to get rewarded. So sign up for the Chase Freedom Flex Card. Learn more at chase.com/getflex. This is a paid collaboration with Chase Freedom Flex. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, N A Member FDIC.

• 34:51Hoda Kotb?

  Subject to credit approval. Offer subject to change. Terms apply.

• 34:56Speaker 02

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• 35:25Hoda Kotb?

  How did you guys do it? I mean, how did you parent on the road? How did you do it with this wild lifestyle? How did it work?

• 35:31Speaker 05

  I wish I could say a lot of alcohol, but no.

• 35:35Speaker 05

  No, I don't know. It was, we were together. I mean, listen, we could not have done this, I swear. I mean, like I said, most people, one of you was staying home. You know what I mean? One of you was in the band, the other one was not. You know what I mean? We were in the band. I mean, it was insane. We had the best, one of the best things that ever happened. I mean, we were dragging, you know, we had road cases that were built for their toy boxes so we could bring their favorite toys. I was, I have OCD, so I'm like a lunatic. So I wasn't putting them in cribs in the Four Seasons. I was getting, you know, I was having road cases built for my cribs that I was bringing. You know, so we were dragging all this crap with us all the time. And it was insane.

• 36:17Speaker 05

  But you know, they learned how to, Haley learned how to walk in Minneapolis. Hannah was roller skating in the Forum, you know, inside the, I mean, they were riding their bikes inside, you know, Madison Square Garden. They were riding their bikes, you know, doing all kinds of crazy stuff like that. And so they had a great time. They learned how to swim. We were in swimming pools everywhere across America. You know, they were having the best time ever. And they loved their bunks. They would get in the bus and they would decorate their bunks.

• 36:44Hoda Kotb?

  Okay, how did, did they go to school? How did all that work?

• 36:47Speaker 05

  We only, we only toured in the summer. Once we had children and they were old enough to be in school, we only toured in the summer because I wasn't.

• 36:52Speaker 06

  Except we did, we did do it for one short period of time. And that was a disaster.

• 36:57Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 36:58Speaker 06

  Disaster.

• 36:58Speaker 05

  When they were little. Yeah.

• 37:00Speaker 06

  Well, when our oldest was little, the first one. So we realized that that's not going to work.

• 37:05Speaker 05

  No, we just, so we went in the summer. But the best, one of the best days I ever had because knowing, and you know, you were just kind of on your own. And you know, there's not a lot of, you're not, even though you have a lot of, I mean, you know, people, you have, you know, people in the music business, but you're really not really hanging out that much because you're working, so are they. One day, we pull up to a hotel and I see this, this bus. And I see these people unloading baby walkers and all kinds of stuff. And I'm thinking, who is that? Because I, you know, our kids are bigger now. And I was thinking, oh, God, I'm so glad that's not us anymore. It was Bruce. Bruce and Patty were dragging all these crazy things out of their bus. It's funny, everyone like, high five, and we're done.

• 37:48Speaker 06

  All right. Good time with that.

• 37:50Speaker 05

  We were laughing, oh, yeah.

• 37:52Hoda Kotb?

  What did Haley and Hannah think of mom and dad, like, when you were on stage? Do you have any memories of them watching?

• 37:57Speaker 05

  When they were little, they loved it because they could play and they could go everywhere and do stuff. But you know, the minute they like turn like 12, 13, when they start being embarrassed that you're like breathing, you know, this was, this was the worst. I mean, this was like, oh, just until Haley was really the worst. Hannah was a little bit easier because she was the baby and it was later. But Haley, Haley hated it until she found out we could get her in to see NSYNC backstage.

• 38:28Hoda Kotb?

  By the way, that's so brilliant.

• 38:30Speaker 06

  And I did, I did NSYNC, yeah. And you know, the,

• 38:33Speaker 05

  I had to do Hanson, please.

• 38:34Speaker 06

  Yeah, I know. The great, the great NSYNC story is I, I took him to see NSYNC, our oldest. And when I got there, a lot of the crew people knew me from being on the road. Hey, how you doing? Nice to see you, everything. The sound man, all the technical people. Hey, how's it going? So next thing happens is, she's got great seats.

• 38:54Speaker 05

  She's in the pit. She's there.

• 38:55Speaker 06

  The pit in the front. She looks over, she could see me on the side of the stage and she's going,

• 39:02Speaker 06

  they just put me on the side of the stage. She was so mad.

• 39:07Hoda Kotb?

  I love it. By the way, every time you say Haley, my heart skips because I happen to have a nine-year-old named Haley.

• 39:14Speaker 05

  Oh, nice.

• 39:15Hoda Kotb?

  I adopted my two kids. I have a seven-year-old named Hope and a nine-year-old named Haley. And every time you say Haley, like, I get the warm fuzzies. Why'd you pick that name, by the way? Was it just, just because?

• 39:27Speaker 06

  That was, Patricia picked it. I picked their middle name. I don't even call her Haley. I call her Gina.

• 39:32Speaker 05

  Her middle name is Gina. So we, so we call her Gina, but, but people say, oh, you have three daughters, Haley, Gina, and Hannah. I go, no, Haley is Gina. That's like crazy. But no, I was, I don't know, you know, I, it wasn't Haley Mills who I love, but I, it wasn't that. I just, I don't know. It just came and I picked it. I don't know.

• 39:52Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah, same, same. I had the same thing. So I read your very cute book about being grandparents.

• 39:58Speaker 05

  Oh, it was so fun.

• 39:59Hoda Kotb?

  I thought that was the, first of all, the cutest concept in the world. You've got three grandkids, is that right?

• 40:04Speaker 05

  Three.

• 40:05Hoda Kotb?

  I mean, so they, what did they think? That all grandparents were rock stars? Is that kind of what they thought?

• 40:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, our oldest, our oldest Stevie, who's now eight, when we started the, you know, it takes a long time to get the book published and all that stuff. But she was four when we started. And when, we were just talking one day and she was asking, you know, does Evelyn R's grandma go on stage? And I said, no, I don't think so, you know? And she said, what about her Papa? Does he play guitar? And I'm like, no, like, and I, so then we realized that she, that their scope, they thought everybody's grandparents did what we did. So we started having the conversation that, oh, no, no, no. People do different things and they don't look like us. You know, Papa's got tattoos everywhere and people don't have that all the time. And you know, all these kinds of things. So that's how the book was, the concept for the book was born. But that was because of the conversation with her.

• 40:55Speaker 06

  She narrates the book.

• 40:56Speaker 05

  She narrates.

• 40:56Hoda Kotb?

  Oh, she does?

• 40:57Speaker 06

  She's like, ah.

• 40:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's her. That's Stevie. Yeah.

• 41:00Speaker 06

  That's Stevie.

• 41:01Speaker 05

  It was really fun to do.

• 41:03Hoda Kotb?

  What is the best part of being grandparents? What do you love about that?

• 41:06Speaker 06

  What's not to love?

• 41:07Speaker 05

  Everything.

• 41:10Speaker 05

  Everything. I mean, you have kids, so your kids are little. And you see how fast it goes. Okay, you know, it's over in a blink. It's, it's just, I mean, it's, it's a terrible cruel joke, you know, that you have them little for so little time.

• 41:25Hoda Kotb?

  Yes.

• 41:25Speaker 05

  And then what happens is then you love your kids and everything you do and everything. And then when you have grandchildren, no, this is illness. This is, this borders on illness, okay? You are so mad for them, crazy, because A number one, you're getting a second chance. Okay? And you can't believe you have little babies and little children in your life again. And it's not somebody else's kids. They're yours. You know what I mean? It's not like it's somebody's kid in the park and you're like, oh, I'm holding a baby. No, they're your baby. This is your baby. Your baby's baby.

• 41:55Speaker 06

  Here's the difference too, though. The difference is, is really important to know is that, and it's simple and it's obvious, that, you know, when you're a parent, you're around your children all the time, day and night, right? The grandparents are there. So when you do come, which we're there a lot.

• 42:09Speaker 05

  We're there a lot, yeah.

• 42:10Speaker 06

  And my, my favorite one, we finally got the boy, the grandson. So Cash, I call him Cashish. So when we, when we get to the house and I open the door and he goes, Papa, I go Cashish, and Patricia's in front of me.

• 42:25Speaker 05

  I'm like this and runs right past me.

• 42:26Speaker 06

  Right by me, just to run to me. With this big hug. And since he's the boy, I could give him like that real kind of strong nash to the house.

• 42:35Speaker 05

  It's so great.

• 42:36Speaker 06

  It's so fantastic.

• 42:38Hoda Kotb?

  By the way, that is so awesome. That is awesome. Pat, I'm just thinking about how many people, you know, you, I was reading the story about you when you were young and you went to a stadium and saw Liza Minnelli sing. And it kind of lit you up. You were like, man, I, I could do that. Is that kind of how that went down?

• 42:56Speaker 05

  Yes. I mean, I was with my, with my fabulous gay friends, of course. And, and they said, you want to go? And I said, sure, let's go. So we went. But, and the thing that happened, I, you know, I love her. She's great. That was, but that wasn't it. The thing that happened is we were inside the Coliseum. And the Coliseum was empty. And I was looking at all those seats. And I was looking around thinking to myself, Huh.

• 43:21Speaker 05

  I can sing Elise as good as her, you know what I mean? Like, wait a minute, wait a minute. I can do this. So that's what it was. I mean, it wasn't that we, it would have, it could have been anybody. I mean, I'm happy it was her because she's a doll. But I mean, it was, it had nothing to do with that music. It wasn't about musically. It was about the, that I could see, I had the presence of mind to think like, wait a minute, I can, I can do this. I could.

• 43:44Hoda Kotb?

  Right.

• 43:44Speaker 05

  You know, and that was it. And that just started the whole thing. And I had no plan, no plan. I just, you know, had a lot of, you know, just chutzpah and I don't know.

• 43:54Hoda Kotb?

  How many people have come up to you? I can only imagine and said, oh, my gosh, Pat, because of you, I did this or because of you, I did that.

• 44:01Speaker 05

  It's women all the time.

• 44:02Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 44:03Speaker 05

  Spider, spider dies because they're always like, I, I call them my girls, my girls all the time everywhere we go. He goes crazy because they're like, come, come on, you know, like so cute. I mean, they're just darling. And yeah, I mean, it's really, it's amazing. And I, and I would, I would love to take credit, but it was, you know, it was a whole movement. It was a time of the world. I mean, it was where America was going. Everybody was in the same mindset. So just right place at the right time. And there were lots of us going at the same time. So it was great. It's great to be part of it.

• 44:29Hoda Kotb?

  This, um, this, this podcast is called Joy 101. It's something about, um, I mean, to me, like, there's a lot of things that can bring happiness and those are all external, you know, you could, and they come and go. It's like that way I'm happy and now I'm back to me. And joy to me is something when you sort of just like open your eyes in the morning and you look around and nothing's happened, but you feel, you feel full. You feel like you need.

• 44:52Speaker 05

  It's gratitude.

• 44:53Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah. Tell me what it means to you. Yeah.

• 44:55Speaker 05

  Yeah. I mean, right? Don't you think it's by gratitude? I mean, just.

• 44:59Speaker 06

  Absolutely.

• 44:59Speaker 05

  Being grateful. I mean, you know, for me, it's always like, my whole thing is like, if you get to wake up the next day and breathe, that's good. Let's start with that. You know what I'm saying?

• 45:09Speaker 06

  Every day is a second chance.

• 45:11Speaker 05

  I'm 73 years old. I'm like, every day is a good day, you know, that kind of thing. So, yeah.

• 45:16Speaker 06

  Yeah. Second chances, it's important.

• 45:18Hoda Kotb?

  Second chances?

• 45:19Speaker 06

  The second chance is this, the second chance, what I mean by this is that a lot of people live into inside their head. Most of the time they're not living in the present, in the moment. And a lot of things spin in their head, goes over and over again. So if you could erase those, that's the way you can have joy every day and beauty every day and be humble and grateful. Those are the things that are important. As far as you take your breath when you wake up like that, it's, it should feel special and real to you. But a lot of people struggle, you know, because they keep that internal loop going and it's not a good one sometimes. So it's, it's a lot of spirituality you kind of need to address. And that's, that's the, that's where your joy comes. True spirituality, you could work on yourself and try to be.

• 45:58Speaker 05

  And it's true, this, you know, stuff happens. I mean, it's not like we had perfect lives. We had, we had lots of stuff, you know, lots of stuff career wise, lots of stuff, personal, family, all this kind of stuff. And things happen. It's not going to be perfect. It isn't. But you know, if you can just get through it, if you can get through, get on the other side, you get another chance.

• 46:18Hoda Kotb?

  Are you optimistic, Pat, by nature?

• 46:21Speaker 05

  Absolutely. I'm so hopeful all the time.

• 46:24Hoda Kotb?

  So tell me, give me a, give me a, how you start your day and how you end your day?

• 46:31Speaker 05

  Well, Spider gets up three hours ahead of me.

• 46:34Speaker 06

  She's asking you the question. You tell, you talk to.

• 46:36Speaker 05

  Well, I know, but I have to always make the timeline. Like I don't sleep. I don't sleep at night. I'm a lunatic. So I go to bed really late. So I get up at like seven or seven 30. He gets up really early. So he gets his day going and you know, I stay up all night because that's when I do my thinking, my writing, my, all that. So we're on opposite schedules. But you know, it's just, you know, you just wake up and you just start your day and it's always, it's always chaos. It's nuts. It's crazy, but it's good. I mean, fun.

• 47:04Hoda Kotb?

  Neil, do you have a rhythm? What do you do? What's your morning routine?

• 47:06Speaker 06

  I do. I, I wake up because I want to be awake. That's the real difficult time for me. Cause everybody's sleeping and it, and it gives me, here's, here's the philosophy behind it. If you, if you wake up and it's dark and you go to sleep when it's dark, you get two nights in every day.

• 47:22Speaker 06

  So if you think about that, right? So what my routine is very simple is I wake up because I want to be awake and I start writing right away. I start writing. I drink green tea first, first thing in the morning. I, since I, I found out I had silent reflux because I'm drinking too much caffeine. I used to drink like 15, 20 cups.

• 47:41Speaker 05

  It's the only party that's silent.

• 47:43Speaker 06

  Yeah. Yeah. A lot of green tea and I drank too much of it. So I, I don't do that anymore, but that's the routine. I do that. And then a couple of hours later, I wake Patricia up and by then I'm ready to go to the gym. I'm gonna hit the gym and I eat three breakfasts and I'm ready to go.

• 47:59Hoda Kotb?

  Eat the three breakfasts. I love it.

• 48:01Speaker 05

  He's Sicilian. He's starving all day.

• 48:03Speaker 06

  Got to eat, got to eat.

• 48:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:05Hoda Kotb?

  And lastly, tell me about the joy in relationship. I mean, you guys put it on display. I mean, quite frankly, I want, anyone who's looking at this knows, but what is it about? Cause, cause you have to have that in between. It's not what you are, Pat, and what you are, Neil. It's what I'm seeing between you two. So how do you preserve that over all those years? Let me start with Pat.

• 48:26Speaker 06

  What, what did you just learn Patricia from your, the psychic friend? What did you find out? That would be helpful. You can.

• 48:32Speaker 05

  That we are, we are contracted together.

• 48:36Speaker 06

  Who's the, uh?

• 48:37Speaker 05

  What?

• 48:38Speaker 06

  Who's the protector?

• 48:39Speaker 05

  You are.

• 48:41Speaker 06

  Okay. No, go ahead.

• 48:42Speaker 05

  So, and so as fierce and crazy as I am, the one thing I, I, that I, we just had, we had a real, a good friend who was a psychic. So we were just doing a psychic greeting. It was really fun. And she just said that because I don't, because I'm so worried about, uh, taking care of everybody else that I, the person I take care of Elise is myself. And that's pretty much true. So she said that he is the one, that he, he is the sole person whose job it is to protect me. So because I don't, I don't spend any time protecting myself, I'm protecting everybody else. So it, it's just a perfect match. And it's not, Hoda, I swear to God, it's so easy. It's not hard at all. And I, you know, and I'm, we are so grateful for that. I mean, it's so, it just rolls, you know? It's not like, I'd love to take credit.

• 49:27Speaker 05

  He'd love to take credit. We're, it's not like we have to have some kind of insight or some brilliance about how to do this. We just do it. And it's a long time.

• 49:37Speaker 06

  I can add to this. I can add to this. And that is, I used to believe that, uh, one person had to be passive, the other one assertive, but that was wrong. I, I realized that was wrong. It took me a long time to realize because I'm 70 years old and I figured it out years ago, right?

• 49:51Speaker 05

  You old dog.

• 49:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, you know? So, um, so passive and assertive. And in the family life, I'm very passive. That doesn't mean I'm not assertive in taking care of my family. But just passive, you know, I, I don't, go ahead, have a great life. I, I don't interfere. I don't want to, I just want to be that guy and I want to be, I want to have a good time, passive. But as soon as you open that studio door, assertive happens. And I can, and she'll tell you, guarantee, when you walk through my door and you come into the studio.

• 50:24Speaker 05

  That's a nightmare.

• 50:25Speaker 06

  This is my world. This is my, this is where I live and I.

• 50:30Speaker 05

  I'm on the cross. I am on the cross.

• 50:33Speaker 06

  I put myself there too. So very assertive, but I've learned that you, you need to have balance, except in the studio. I'm keeping that as assertive. The other part, the other part, you have to be, you have to a little, you have to have a balance to it. But again.

• 50:48Speaker 05

  I don't know. We have fun, you know? We still like each other.

• 50:51Speaker 06

  It comes down to confrontation, you know? I, I don't want to raise my voice. I, I'll, I'll direct the, the issue. I will talk about it, but I, I'm not a, I'm not an instigator. I don't want confrontation. I just don't want it. I don't have time for it.

• 51:05Hoda Kotb?

  What did you say, Pat? You're the one? Pat's mouthing she's the one. Uh huh.

• 51:08Speaker 06

  He's insane. Yeah.

• 51:11Hoda Kotb?

  This was a delightful conversation. I want to say thank you.

• 51:15Speaker 05

  So nice to see you.

• 51:16Hoda Kotb?

  Love you guys. You guys are going on tour. So you're going to be, and we're going to post where that is and all of those details. So, um, thank you again so much, man. I admire so much about you.

• 51:27Speaker 05

  Congratulations. Good luck with this. It's so fabulous.

• 51:30Speaker 06

  Joy is good. I like this. I like this.

• 51:32Hoda Kotb?

  Thank you, Neil. Have a good one, guys.

• 51:34Speaker 06

  You too. Thank you.

• 51:37Hoda Kotb?

  Wow, that was an awesome conversation with Pat Benatar and her husband Neil. Um, you know, it's so funny. You know, I know her as a singer. I knew her, him as her husband and fellow musician, but I learned so much more about them. I think what was, their relationship is kind of what cracked open to me and how after she's 73 and he's 70 and they've been together for decades, just how they keep it alive and how they keep it fresh and how they keep it interesting. I mean, and I like how they find, uh, joy. They are just, I mean, you know, when you look at someone, you're like, I want what they're having. Like that's sort of what I feel like when I'm listening to them speak, both of them.

• 52:21Hoda Kotb?

  I, I always admired Pat Benatar and now I admire her husband equally. So wow, what an awesome conversation. I hope there was a lot you took away. There's a ton I took away from them and just how they find joy, how they find joy in the everyday, which is amazing. Okay. You know, I like to end with a poem and I love me some Mary Oliver. So I'm going to do a little Mary Oliver. This one is called, Don't Hesitate.

• 52:51Hoda Kotb?

  If you suddenly and unexpectedly feel joy, don't hesitate. Give into it. There are plenty of lives and whole towns destroyed or about to be. We are not wise and not very often kind, and much can never be redeemed. Still, life has some possibility left. Perhaps this is its way of fighting back that sometimes something happens better than all the riches or power in the world. It could be anything, but very likely you notice it the instant when love begins. Anyway, that's often the case. Anyway, whatever it is, don't be afraid of its plenty. Joy is not made to be a crumb. That is a poem by Mary Oliver. I want to thank you guys for listening to this podcast. We'll have many more good ones ahead.

• 53:50Hoda Kotb?

  I've realized that joy doesn't always come from those big moments. Sometimes you find it on the most ordinary day. I'll pop into a CVS for toothpaste or paper towels and it never seems to be just a quick errand. Maybe I'll grab a delicious well market trail mix or wander over to the Joy Word Collection. That's part of the fun. So the next time you're checking something off your to do list, stop by your local CVS pharmacy. You might go in for one thing and leave with a little more joy. Visit your local CVS pharmacy sponsored by CVS.

• 54:22Speaker 07

  Hello, I'm Chris Richards, general manager at Saffron Volkswagen Richmond. I'm here to announce an exciting new program that I want you to listen to. Here's my friend, Happy. Hi, I'm Happy Harry Turner, special finance manager at Saffron Credit.com. If you're in an open chapter 13 bankruptcy, recently filed a chapter seven, or you've been turned down because of credit challenges, don't give up. For nearly 30 years, I've helped people get reliable transportation when others said no. Visit Saffron Credit.com. Remember, I'm not happy unless you are.

• 54:51Speaker 03

  I'm Melissa Jelton, host of the What Happened to Her podcast. We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story, a case the police wrote off as a suicide in a snowstorm. Her family never bought it and the man they suspected wore a badge.

• 55:06Speaker 04

  You never know who that devil is because he's wearing disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform.

• 55:11Speaker 03

  And you can get access to all episodes 100% ad free with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to iHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe today.

• 55:29Speaker 07

  On recent episodes of The Questlove Show, I chatted with JoJo about her music and Wallow 267 about his story and everything in between.

• 55:37Speaker 03

  Don't invite me to karaoke. I'm going to make it weird. Someone's going to try to sing Leave, Get Out or Too Little, Too Late or Baby It's You.

• 55:43Speaker 07

  Oh, no. And I'm going to be like, okay, cool. Check out my conversation with JoJo, Wallow 267 and more on The Questlove Show. Listen to The Questlove Show on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Peace.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.