Tamron Hall Overcoming Odds to Emmy Award Winning Talk Show Host to Media Mogul

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast FOLLOW HAPPY DAD: https://www.instagram.com/happydad FIND HAPPY DAD: https://www.happydad.com/find Today on The Pivot, the guys are treated to a special guest- the very talented talk show host, Tamron Hall, for a conversation covering her underdog mentality, highs and lows of her career, starting a family late in her life, the value of second chances and proving people wrong. Ryan, sharing similar Louisiana roots with Tamron, acknowledges that growing up, he didn't see many people that looked like him covering the news, especially females which is why he was so drawn to finding out how Tamron started her career. Opening up about a life changing moment while watching tv with her step dad and seeing Lola Johnson, the first African-American news anchor for a Dallas television station, inspired her to follow down that path and change the trajectory for black women with a passion in media. Now an author and 2x Emmy winner of her own talk show, Tamron admits her road wasn't easy filled with many painful moments and shares how being a black woman on tv was once the loneliest place in the newsroom. Tamron speaks of her initial experience as a journalist and being chosen to cover stories because of her skin color and stereotypes rather than her skills. Fueled by her experiences, her commitment to diversifying the workplace and serving as a bridge to people like herself trying to get into the industry. After leaving the Today Show, Tamron talks about how it was Harvey Weinstein who first tried to meet with her and pitch her on having her own show. Shortly after their first meeting is when Weinstein was exposed for sexual assault and Channing asks Tamron if she ever had any indication or saw signs of his behavior during their interactions. Sharing details for the first time publicly, Tamron opens up on how the entire scandal affected her personally and voices her thoughts on the entire scandal and aftermath of it. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY) 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL/IN/LA/MI/NJ/PA/TN/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXT STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/KS/NH), 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), visit OPGR.org (OR), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA). 21+ (18+ NH/WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/KS/LA(select parishes)/MI/NJ/NY/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. Void in ONT. Valid 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min $5 pregame moneyline bet. Bet must win. $200 issued as eight (8) $25 free bets. Sponsored by DK. Ends 11/20/2022 11:59 PM ET. Eligibility restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.draftkings.com/footballterms. #1 Rated Sportsbook App based on Eilers&Krejcik (2Q22). Product Analysis: Testing, Scoring, and Ranking U. S. Sports Betting Apps Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 0:11Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Semaglutide injection, 2.4mg a GLP-1. Call 1-8334-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 0:30Channing Crowder?

  What's the saying? Beside a good man's a good woman?

• 0:32Speaker 02

  I never heard that.

• 0:33Channing Crowder?

  I'm behind.

• 0:34Speaker 02

  Behind, yes.

• 0:35Channing Crowder?

  Hey, I let my wife walk first.

• 0:36Speaker 02

  I love it, I love it, I love it.

• 0:38Ryan Clark?

  Well, I mean, most people, most men marry up, for sure.

• 0:42Speaker 02

  You think so?

• 0:43Ryan Clark?

  We are all products of that.

• 0:44Speaker 02

  I think so, I think so. My dad definitely married up. Well, my mom was my dad's third wife, and he was 25 years older than her, and he was our landlord. And I used to tell my...

• 0:56Ryan Clark?

  Got him all youngster.

• 0:57Speaker 02

  Stop it. No, I used to say to him, I said, "Dad, on paper, you're a terrible guy." Like, if you think about it, three times married, and he's married the lady who was renting from him, who had a kid. But the day my dad closed his eyes, and he passed away when I first moved here, I saw pure love. And he was an example to me of never believing someone's a throwaway, and you're not your last decision. And he happened to have been married to two other people. But it took those mistakes, he might call them, to get to my mom. And they had this beautiful love story. So I always tell people, when they judge people for their mistakes and bad decisions, be very careful, because my mom would have missed out on her greatest love. And the dad that I was meant to have, he wasn't my biological dad.

• 1:42Speaker 02

  He was the dad that I was meant to have.

• 2:06Ryan Clark?

  Welcome to the Pivot. We're so excited to have you. I mean, it's an honor for us, absolutely. Freddie Flowers, like, I can call you by your nicknames today. You just Chan. And I'm RC. For all our subscribers, we thank you. We appreciate you for everything. Continue to hit the Like button. Like Freddie T. always says... Anybody could podcast, but not everybody can pivot. And that's what we do. We do a show. And I'm excited because I'm from the South.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:32Ryan Clark?

  Right? I'm from, I was born and raised in New Orleans. Right? I know.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  It's my second home.

• 2:36Ryan Clark?

  I know. And I also know, you know, you're from the South. But growing up and having opportunities to cut on the TV, you didn't necessarily get to see a lot of Tamarind halls locally.

• 2:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:47Ryan Clark?

  So what gave you the, the vision? Or what even made you think that becoming who you are now was possible?

• 2:54Speaker 02

  Oh, it was the most important, the second most important man in my life, which was my stepfather. I remember, um, I was in Dallas Fort Worth and I was getting Cs and Ds and Fs. And, uh, I was going through this stage in my life. And I was always, uh, in like these gifted and talented programs and these magnet programs, always that. But I was, um, a rebel, to say the least. And my dad looked at the TV and he said, if you get your grades up, you could be her. And I look at the TV and there's this woman, this black woman with this beautiful hair. Because that's the first thing I remember seeing about her. And she had this very rich and thick and just, uh, powerful voice. And her name was Iola Johnson. And she was the first black woman to ever anchor the news in Texas.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  And at that moment, I saw her and I did see what I could be. You know? And I know it sounds cliche. They said, you see it, you believe it. And, and, and for me, that was true. And then years later, once I was on local news, uh, you'll love this because I ended up, there was Drew Pearson, who was the love of my life as a kid. I actually had his picture on my wall. That's how old I am. Um, and her. And I ran over to her to thank her. And she'd seen and heard of me. But then I said, you're the woman that I'm always talking about in this, this story. So I saw it and it definitely set the course. I didn't know how much pain though, that that would also include talking about the pivot because. What I now know she must have experienced,

• 4:21Speaker 02

  based on what I've experienced, I'm surprised she was even able to make it to that point.

• 4:27Channing Crowder?

  What is some of that pain? I was gonna ask, like that, you have a goal, but then the journey has to happen. Like, what were some of them painful points?

• 4:36Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, there are so many, but one in particular, I remember being in local news in Dallas-Fort Worth, and I'd gotten my big gig, the first reporting job, specifically, and for a reporter, I was making forty-five thousand dollars. That was a big deal, because I was just out of college. And I was assigned the gang unit. And I'm thinking, okay, I'm a reporter, and I get it, we cover all kinds of things. I'm not a weather person, I'm not a meteorologist, but I cover the tornadoes in Texas. But I was on the gang unit. And I, something told me, like, they think I'm black and I know gang culture. Like, and as I started to investigate and ask questions, sure enough, someone was like, well, you know. And I said, no, I don't know. I actually grew up on a farm. You know more about, I know gang, because I watched the movie Colors.

• 5:20Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 5:20Speaker 02

  That's all I know. I don't know anybody, I don't know any signs, I know nothing. But instantly, I had to be from what they call the hood, because I don't even like that term. I know that we, again, use it as a term of endearment. I've been in newsrooms, and I know how it's used when we're not in the room. I'm from the hood, I'm a certain type. And then suddenly, it became, she's difficult, she's too loud, she's too, too, too, too, too. And so those were the most painful things early on that I didn't know how to respond to. Because the minute you know someone thinks you're angry, what do you do? You shrink down. And I started to see myself shrinking down, and it started to affect my career. My first job, I was like the A1 reporter. And before I knew it, I was the 4:00 AM reporter.

• 6:05Channing Crowder?

  Wow.

• 6:06Speaker 02

  And I started to watch me become the person that they thought they could target and demote.

• 6:11Ryan Clark?

  You know, you talk about being the person they can target and demote. The one thing about this show is We Can Be Real. You're two minorities, right? Being a woman is already gonna make it more difficult for you. But being a black woman and being the most marginalized.

• 6:28Speaker 02

  It's the loneliest place in a newsroom. Because you do look toward your white female colleagues for support. And so many times, they were the facilitators. So a white male news director would say, "Oh, well, put her on the gang unit." And then the assistant news director, who was a white female, because a lot of white females started to move up in the executive ranks. So you're thinking, "Okay, great, I have someone who will understand this journey." But then they would come to you. And there's one that comes to mind in particular, who had a lot of power, but didn't use it to support me and other women of color. And I wasn't the only woman of color. I was the only black woman, but we're in Texas. So we had my, one of my colleagues was an Asian-American woman and a Latin-American woman.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  And I felt that, and I still feel, that she was more preoccupied with getting in the C-suite than helping the female allies who were not white. And it didn't, you know, when I look back at it now, I wonder, did it make me bitter at the time? I don't think so. I think it made my pivot so much more focused. I'm a person that, you know, I tell people all the time, if I keep looking at the roadblocks, I can't see the road. And I believe that. And I think at that time, I saw her as a roadblock, but she was going to be one that I was gonna roll over. And I'm, I don't say this to be petty or mean. She's not in the business anymore. And she has to watch me and wonder what maybe we could have built together, had we been an ally. How many shows and how many things could we have done together?

• 7:56Speaker 02

  But I don't think she saw me as an ally, because I'm a black woman.

• 8:00Ryan Clark?

  It's so, it's so funny. You start to, you know, and it's like, hey, Tamron Hall is gonna be on the show. I was like, okay, I gotta do my research, you know? You can't, you can't, you can't, you can't get on an interview with a world-class interviewer and not, and not have nothing. But I had an opportunity to talk to L. Duncan about you, you know? Because I did wanna talk to, you know, the, the other black women I knew in the business. And she's like, you know, she said, "One thing about Tamron is, she's very intentional about paving the way." Very intentional about giving back. Are some of the situations you dealt with? Did those things, are those the things that have made you be very poignant about helping others that come behind you?

• 8:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, and I talk with Elle a lot about this. And for example, when I became the first black woman to anchor the Today Show in the 62 years of this show, you know, at the time, you know, it was a situation where I wasn't embarrassed because I was, I didn't want that to be my calling card. I didn't want, like, I was talking to Miki Gai the other day, she's a brilliant performer. We are so proud to be the first black women to do these things, but you don't want that to allow people to say that's all you have to offer.

• 9:08Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 9:09Speaker 02

  And so for me, when I was Today Show, the first black woman, and I hope leaving an impact on the industry, my departure and the way it happened and learning, basically, I was walking on air and I was learning in real time that I would be taken off for someone that was very controversial and ended up ironically being taken off because she thought it was okay to be in blackface.

• 9:28Ryan Clark?

  Right, and it was like only a year or so after.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was not even that, but, but to your point of your question, being intentional about paving the way, the day I learned I was going to leave that show, or that I would be taken off that show, I went home and I said, I have to get back up because if there are any black women who look at me who are in college right now saying, I want to be that, and I stay down, what chance do they have? And so I was so intentional in my pivot there, I, because I said, I can't let them see me fail. I cannot. And I kept thinking about students at Temple University, my alma mater, Howard, all of the young women who were aspiring to be me, and they see it happen to me and they think, this industry hasn't changed, and I, I don't stand a chance if Tamara Hall can't do it.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  So I kept that in my mind, I kept that in my hiring process. I have like 250 people who are a part of my show, keep the engine running, majority of them are women, most are women of color, and that doesn't mean I eliminate anyone because I want our show to be great, and to be great, you have to have diversity. But I say often of black women, when we're let in the room, we let everybody in the room. But when others in the room, they often don't let us. So I've been intentional in making sure it's inclusive of men, of women, LGBTQ plus, because I think that is the greatness of a black woman in that when we set a table, we truly do, I believe, set it for more people. And that's been the benefit of it.

• 10:57Ryan Clark?

  And, and I want you to be cocky now.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  I'm a little bit.

• 11:00Fred Taylor?

  Why you like, you know what I'm saying? Like you said in the first 62 years like, and you you seem very modest, but you have you have something different to be. I've watched you for years. But you were something different than other people that tried to pave the way and you paved the way.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  I don't think so. I think it's timing. You know what I mean? I think it's timing because um I remember being in college and my professor said, if you think you're just gonna walk in and get your first TV job, you gotta be kidding me. And I was like, watch me. And she mentors me and I still love her to this day, but it was a glorious thing to walk back and like, I got the job. She was like, oh my God. You know, and then when I became the Today Show, I'm like, ah. She was like, oh really?

• 11:41Fred Taylor?

  Got another one.

• 11:42Speaker 02

  I did my whole Meg Thee Stallion. Ah. She was like, get out of here, kid. Um, but I think we can all say you can have hard, you work hard, you can be focused, you can be determined, but so much of life is an unknown variable. There are so many times that I think about the other kids from Luling, Texas, or the other kids in Stop Six Fort Worth, which is where I was raised much of my life, who went to Dunbar Middle School, who went to Poly High School. And they're not here, but that doesn't mean they could not have been or that they weren't as good. You know, life is so much about luck and timing. Um, when I was in the room, I was always gonna shoot my shot. That's why Hamilton is my, I'm not giving away my shot. I was never gonna give away my shot.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  But why I ended up or how I ended up in the rooms, I can't say. I think it's luck. I think it's God. I think it's destiny. I do believe this was my destiny. But the wheels were put on the car by my mom, by my grandfather, who had a second grade education, who couldn't read, but I make my living. I pay my bills with words. So I do, I I I'm cocky about my day to day. I know I am good at what I do.

• 12:51Fred Taylor?

  You're very intentional. You know, you you don't allow those doors to stay closed for long. And now you have a daytime Emmy winning.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  Two.

• 12:59Fred Taylor?

  Two, 2028 and 2022. Tell me. And she was the first to him. So another first. That intent, you know what I'm saying? So it's hard for me to to to really agree with you when you say it's luck.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  I love that you say that, but think about right now, there are children around us. You're not able to pick who you're born to. You're not able to pick the zip code that you go home to. My son right now goes to a private school, right? But in reality, there are kids his age. Right now, who have to go to the school that's in their area.

• 13:34Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  And people then assign something to them, right? And so for me, there has to be some layer of luck and faith. Because we don't get to pick our team that we're born into. You come out of that hospital to a mom who is struggling, or a dad who has been put into a system that is designed to break you. What are you going to inherit? And I just feel like that's a big reason I talk a lot about education. And that's a big reason that's a big part of my platform. Because you don't get to pick your school. You're in your... We have parents right now who went to jail because they said, "I can't let my kid go to school in this neighborhood. So I'm gonna let you go to your aunt's house, or your cousin's house, and we're gonna use that address

• 14:19Speaker 02

  so that you can go to the good school."

• 14:21Fred Taylor?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  That kid did nothing wrong.

• 14:24Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  But the good school is not accessible. So through the luck of the draw, they end up in a program like I did, like junior achievement. Or you end up with somebody who says, "Let me mentor you." Or like me, my English teacher told me to apply for this $500 scholarship that paid for my books my first year.

• 14:43Fred Taylor?

  Wow.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  You know, so you end up meeting people through luck.

• 14:47Fred Taylor?

  Right. Have you ever heard of the Monopoly study?

• 14:51Speaker 02

  No.

• 14:51Fred Taylor?

  Where they take just random students. I forget what university, but they take random students. And it's a game of Monopoly. But they took the white kids. They gave them one dice, or one die. And then they gave them... They gave some kids a lot of money, and some kids a little money.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:12Fred Taylor?

  So they was trying to teach them, if you're born to a certain, you know, born to certain families, certain demographic, that will decide or determine your future. Right? So I think it's a good thing for most people out there to look at. You can look it up on YouTube.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  I think it's... And I will, because it's like, listen.

• 15:41Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Someaglutide injection 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOVIE or visit Wegovy.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 16:01Speaker 02

  If you're given 50 yards ahead of me and I'm expected to catch up, I might be born with exceptional speed, or I might not be. But the bottom line is you were given a jump. And so for me, I have to assume some of it is luck because I know kids I grew up with who were smarter, who were, probably would have been better broadcasters than me, who had better personalities, whatever the betters are. I would be kidding you to say I don't know people with better, but they didn't get the shot. Now, the counter to that is that some people do get a shot and they blow it. We've all seen people who get that shot, you know, "Man, you blew that. You didn't work hard." You know, Michelle Obama talks about putting your head down and doing the work.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  I have some young people that I've mentored and I'm like, "Wait, wait, what? You showed up late? Wait, what? You didn't do your homework?" My pet peeve, I love that you started with, "I did my homework." My pet peeve is when I sit down for interviews and people are like, "So where are you from?"

• 16:58Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 16:59Speaker 02

  And I've had interns or young reporters do that and I'm like, "That's a basic Google search." So it is twofold. I think it's luck, absolutely, because you don't get to pick how you start the game. But you can control some of the levers. So you can go to the gym more than someone else. You can read as I do constantly. You can seize the moment. I wrote my second, my first novel in the middle of a pandemic, you know, because I said, "I have to diversify. I have to make my brand bigger and I want to write this novel to prove to others that I can and prove to myself."

• 17:33Ryan Clark?

  Can you share the title of it?

• 17:35Speaker 02

  Oh, the book is called As the Wicked Watch. It was inspired by... You didn't Google that?

• 17:39Ryan Clark?

  I did, actually. I mean...

• 17:42Fred Taylor?

  You know, you know what? I could've.

• 17:44Ryan Clark?

  He had to let me get a question off.

• 17:45Fred Taylor?

  I could've set it up, but sometimes you have to ask the questions to the answers, you know? Because it's for the people.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  I love that. I love that, because you're the people's host. And that's the challenge. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. No, I, um, As the Wicked Watch is the novel that I wrote. It was inspired by my years of reporting. And there's a character, Jordan Manning. She's named after Michael Jordan, Peyton Manning. Because I thought, what are the two polar opposites, both in race and in profession? But both ethically really put their hearts into their sport. It's based in Chicago. It's about a missing young black girl and this reporter searching for answers. I just finished the second one of the series. I turned my book in and my book publisher said to me, "Oh, my God, I can't believe you finished this so fast." That's the hard work. I love when I'm underestimated, even by the people who get commission off of what I do, and I exceed. So it's a both.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  It is definitely, though, the hard work. And I, you cannot downplay that.

• 18:37Ryan Clark?

  So, you know, they say that art imitates life, right? So Being Married, Jane, is about you?

• 18:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, they say it is.

• 18:45Ryan Clark?

  Oh, they, they, so who, so who is the "they" that, that say it is?

• 18:49Speaker 02

  The creator? Chump. Mara Brockakil, who is brilliant, brilliant director, writer, creative, followed me for, I think, a couple of weeks. And I was very transparent and vulnerable with her. Just at that time, I wasn't married, I didn't have my son. But about the job, what it takes, and the juggling of your personal life and the expectations. So it is, I, yes.

• 19:16Ryan Clark?

  Because I've seen, I've seen a few of them shows now.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  I've seen the sex things, that's not me.

• 19:20Ryan Clark?

  Okay, but I said, okay.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  I know what you're getting at.

• 19:23Ryan Clark?

  I was just about to say, I don't know, like, you said you were open and vulnerable.

• 19:27Speaker 02

  Do I have water? Does anybody have anything? No one gave me anything to drink. Happy death, Chucky. Go, go, go, go, go on.

• 19:36Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, you know, because when you research and you're going to build a show out about a person, you want to be extremely accurate.

• 19:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:42Ryan Clark?

  Right? And someone that's talented.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  Give me a scene that you're talking about.

• 19:45Ryan Clark?

  Well, so, um...

• 19:47Speaker 02

  No, don't give me a scene.

• 19:48Ryan Clark?

  Okay, I'm about to say, oh, hey. That was that, that was that look.

• 19:51Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no.

• 19:52Ryan Clark?

  I was about to go, I was like, this is more Channing's world.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut.

• 19:57Ryan Clark?

  But I love the fact that earlier, you know... You mentioned, you said the word cocky, right? And you also mentioned petty, right? Which I think are sometimes things that are negatively used to describe people. But in your case, right? Cocky to me is just a confidence and understanding who I am, what I bring and how hard I would work. And petty is not, oh, I'm gonna be petty and do immature things. It's that when I hear, I can't. Or when I'm not given the helping hand I think I should receive, that I'm still gonna make it and you'll see in the end that I'll work. What is it about you though? Cause you mentioned opportunity as well. What is it about you that's allowed you to capitalize on the opportunities you were given?

• 20:39Speaker 02

  I think it's a lot, you know? To your point about cocky, um, when I first left that show and I, uh, my first, the first person who wanted to do this talk show with me was Harvey Weinstein. We know Harvey Weinstein is in prison, uh, for assaults and heinous crimes. And this was prior to, like, I don't know, eight months before he was charged. I would be in rooms with him and I'd watch other male executives fawn over him and want his attention and want his ear and pitch their ideas while he was pitching me. And I'm sitting there at the time, you know? Like, okay, I accomplished some things. I had MSNBC's show, I had Deadline Crime and all these things.

• 21:24Speaker 02

  And I understood why they were trying to get Harvey's ear, but he would, every meeting stop and say, we're not here about me, we're about her. And I would have to do my pitch. And even though I was on TV for 20 years, some of these people had never seen me. They could tell you every white female that they had a crush on, but they could never tell you what I'd done or accomplishments. And so I would honestly channel every hip-hop artist I ever loved. I really would. And so I would go in like, well, I'm about to do this. What, what are you talking about? You know, and they didn't know me. Well, I'm sitting like this all prim and proper and just all kinds of things are exploding in my head to muster the cockiness that women deserve to have. And that we don't, we talk amongst each other very cocky, but then we'll get in rooms and shrink down.

• 22:10Speaker 02

  And so I worked on that. And it's been deliberate that I maintain the humility that I think.

• 22:17Speaker 02

  Is natural to me, but I can channel, as Beyonce said, her Sasha Fierce. You don't want to be in a meeting with me. You don't want to negotiate with me because I win every negotiation. Every negotiation.

• 22:26Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  I had to find that. The petty part, um, why I am willing to so openly talk about the previous job experience and what happened to me there is so that maybe the people who made that decision won't do that again. It's less about me. It's more about, maybe you bet on the other horse. Maybe the horse you think is on the, on the, on the field or whatever, the winner, is not the winner. I've been the underdog my entire life. Nineteen-year-old, single mom. Grandfather was my first father. I know what it feels like to be the underdog. And we have to remind people in our pettiness, sometimes the underdog wins. And maybe you shouldn't look past that person and say what they cannot do because you don't know. And so that's why I call it out. Not because, I, I know I won that.

• 23:11Speaker 02

  Even if the show wasn't a success, even if the Tamron Hall show, I left with my dignity. I left there that day saying, I will never grovel for a job. I will figure it out. And so for me, I bring it up in hopes that another news director, another general manager, another person in the executive suite, they don't fall for what someone says is the star. They look for the person who is the star, not the anointing of someone.

• 23:37Channing Crowder?

  I wanted to ask you about Weinstein.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:40Channing Crowder?

  Because my dad, Jerry Sandusky at Penn State, that was, like you say, heinous crimes.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  I covered that one.

• 23:46Channing Crowder?

  And my father played under Jerry Sandusky and then went back to Penn State after his NFL career and coached under him and would be on the road with him recruiting for months. And when the story came out, I had to call pops and say, Daddy, this was your friend?

• 24:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:00Channing Crowder?

  Like, was there ever a sign? Did you ever see anything that you would think this was happening in his basement and the whole story we, we've heard?

• 24:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:09Channing Crowder?

  Like, was there anything, you being that close to, to Weinstein? Any, any?

• 24:14Speaker 02

  Well, that's the trick back. I knew him four months.

• 24:16Channing Crowder?

  Oh.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  I knew him four months. He sent a note to my agent saying, why can't I get a meeting with Tamron Hall? And my agents called me and said Harvey Weinstein wants to talk to you about meeting about this show. And I said, sure. And who wouldn't at the time, right? And I went and I remember vividly coming in. He came out of a side room. My agents were there with me. And there was this big spread of food. And he's like, I got this show idea. And he hit the tape. And he had done his research. He knew all the shows. He knew what he felt was my value in the marketplace. He presented my case to me. And to be honest with you, it was the first time I was in a meeting and I didn't have to pitch myself.

• 25:02Speaker 02

  He actually pitched the idea to me. I'd never been alone with Harvey. I'd heard that he was like a brute and, you know, bully. And that's how you get things done in Hollywood. But none of those things that happened and clearly were true. I was never exposed to them. But as a woman, one of the unfair things that happened to me. I had people waiting outside my home, asking me had I been a victim. I had people calling my phone all night long. Not asking me like, how long did you know him or what was it? Like you thoughtfully asked. I had people saying, we heard something happened to you. What happened to you? And first of all, if something had happened to me, is that the way to approach me? Right. And second, I only knew the guy for four months.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  We knew of big stars that knew him for way longer. And so it was very, and I've never given this much detail to anyone, but I trust you guys. And I'll tell you, it was very scary. And it was very hurtful because I thought, what do they want from me? And I don't know. And I refused for a long time to even answer questions about it because I said, you're trying to hold a woman accountable for a man's bad behavior. Go ask him. Right. I didn't make a dollar with him. My show ended up being bought thankfully by a better partner. And I went in after, this is funny. He got me in rooms and then he went to jail. And then I went back to those rooms saying, you got to meet with me now. You met with me with him.

• 26:28Speaker 02

  I mean, what are you saying? Is that the only way I can get in the rooms? I got a guilt it. Some meetings sound like you met with him then. So I got back in rooms. Luck, but being prepared and being a little cocky and calling people out. So I got back in rooms and I repitched a show on my own. But it was very. It was very traumatic to have people want me to answer for someone that I didn't even know.

• 26:56Ryan Clark?

  With an experience like that and then what happened afterwards with people questioning you, did you ever, did you ever question yourself or blame yourself and say to yourself, "How could I not know these things about someone I've met?"

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Because I'm not a clairvoyant or psychic.

• 27:14Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  None of us know it. Listen, 1 in 4 women are the victims of domestic violence and assault. Most women, my sister included, who was murdered in her home by allegedly someone in her life. Most times, women are the victims of crimes. They know the perpetrator. It's many times a guy in their own home. So to say you know something about someone, let alone a guy who I maybe, I think, oh, gosh, I might have had 5 meetings total, 6 meetings total, and none of them alone. It would be impossible. I wish I had the power to walk through the streets of New York and say,

• 27:57Speaker 02

  "Put him behind bars. Put him behind bars. Don't ever let him around your child. Don't ever let her." None of us have that ability. How many times have we seen a headline and we know people and you say, "Oh, my God. Him?

• 28:11Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 28:11Speaker 02

  Her? It's impossible. So I feel absolutely no guilt. I feel, I felt and I've let it go. Heartbreak that people would want me to answer for someone, even if I did know him. He did the crime. Make him answer.

• 28:27Ryan Clark?

  So it's, you know, I have had many Tamarind Hall conversations before you were ever going to come on the show.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  You talk to the TV?

• 28:35Ryan Clark?

  No, not, I said, conversations about Tamarind Hall. How about that? I've never had one that didn't start this way. You know, the pretty black lady. Like, you get that all the time. When, and you obviously know that you're a very attractive woman, when you are in these certain rooms or when you felt like you had to pitch yourself, is that something you use to your advantage? Or are you always trying to stiff-arm that and say, "I'm so much more than just a pretty black lady"?

• 29:04Speaker 02

  It's a great question.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  If I have used it, it wasn't conscious. I would hate to say no. I've never gone in an office batting my eyes. I've never gone in the office, "Let me put on this extra short skirt." I have, of course, like anybody, felt like, "Okay, I look good walking in here." But I never wanted a job because, and I don't think any woman does, to be honest with you, because it required me to do something I couldn't wake up with myself. So, no, I don't think I've used it. I've known, I think, once, this is a funny story. Dallas Cowboys, Jerry Jones had just fired Jimmy, and they didn't really let news people, women, they only let sports guys and whatnot. And I ended up in there, and I knew amongst the men, my voice would stand out

• 29:52Speaker 02

  because I was a singular female voice. And so I'm like, "Jimmy, Jimmy," you know, because I knew, and I remember everyone kind of staring at me. And I'm, at the time, I was 26 or whatever, so obviously, I know there's a room full of guys. I'm not stupid, but I didn't go like, "Hello, Jimmy," you know. No, but I knew I probably would be identified more easily through my voice. Anyway, he didn't answer my question. But luck in life. I went around the back, some back door, looking for my camera guy because I got lost because I'd never been on their facility, in their compound. And Jimmy walked out of a back door. And I was like, "Mr. Jones, hi. What happened with you?" And he's like, "I said, 'Where are you going tonight?" He said, "I'm going fishing." And I got the only sound bite from Jimmy after he was fired.

• 30:37Speaker 02

  I'd imagine if it was a guy that was at that door, he'd be like, "Get out of here." But it was a woman, and I'm sure it was disarming to him.

• 30:43Fred Taylor?

  So, I don't necessarily agree with all Cowboy fans.

• 30:48Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, who are you?

• 30:49Fred Taylor?

  My name is Fred, tell you what. But I wanted to ask you, are you a Cowboy fan?

• 30:55Speaker 02

  Am I? I have the state of Texas tattooed with the Dallas Cowboys symbol. Of course I am.

• 31:01Fred Taylor?

  No way.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Why would you say that sinful thing?

• 31:04Fred Taylor?

  Because they're innocuous. They still live in the 90s. Our producer, she's one of them.

• 31:08Ryan Clark?

  You should probably stop saying "they" because it's, she lives in the 90s as well.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  I have to get another sip of water.

• 31:14Fred Taylor?

  Please do, please do. Are you proud of that?

• 31:18Speaker 02

  This hate that permeates through you.

• 31:20Fred Taylor?

  No, it's not hate at all.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  Have you gone to therapy about it? What's going on?

• 31:22Fred Taylor?

  I do take, I do go to therapy.

• 31:24Speaker 02

  What happened? Give me your hand. What happened?

• 31:27Fred Taylor?

  You know, I...

• 31:28Speaker 02

  It's one of the greatest dyna... You wouldn't have modern NFL football were it not for this dynasty.

• 31:34Fred Taylor?

  Huh? See, that's what I'm talking about when I say delusional.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  I'm like, I better get your guy.

• 31:40Ryan Clark?

  How do you, how do you give the Cowboys the entire modern era of football?

• 31:46Speaker 02

  You seem like such a smart man.

• 31:49Ryan Clark?

  You guys have not even been a part of the championship conversation.

• 31:53Fred Taylor?

  I mean, you haven't made it out of the wild card round in about 25, 30 years.

• 31:59Ryan Clark?

  Well, they made it out, they made it out one time because they didn't dare to call it.

• 32:02Fred Taylor?

  The divisional round, yeah. So you've been struggling for a while.

• 32:06Speaker 00

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 32:16Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Somemagnitide injection 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 32:36Ryan Clark?

  Let's just say they've had less success in their field than you have in yours in the last 25 years.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  Are you done or are you finished?

• 32:42Fred Taylor?

  Damn, I'm on, I'm on your side.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  Thank you, darling. Here's the deal.

• 32:45Fred Taylor?

  The Cowboys didn't create football now.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  No, they did not. They, okay, let me, okay, follow me here. They created the modern money-making formula that the NFL lives on today. Jerry Jones, by the way, when there's a new team, you know who they call to help build the infrastructure to set up the team? Jerry Jones. It's a business. Yes. And he created the modern business structure that changed the NFL, that turned it into what we see today, which also made it important in political discourse, in all kinds of social dialogue.

• 33:24Speaker 02

  He created that. He, my God, he created a stadium with a hole so that God could see his favorite team play. If that's not genius, I don't know what is.

• 33:38Fred Taylor?

  See, so since you expounded on the whole entire question, right, you get a pass.

• 33:43Speaker 02

  Oh, dang.

• 33:44Fred Taylor?

  Because not, not, not all Cowboy fans will respond accordingly. So for that.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  It's like Manchester United was for, for their football. There would be no NFL without the down.

• 33:55Ryan Clark?

  Look, I agree to a certain extent. She is not, she, she basically said it doesn't matter if they ever field a good football team because they make money.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:05Fred Taylor?

  But that's because they selling tickets to delusional fans.

• 34:09Speaker 02

  Who make a lot of money.

• 34:12Fred Taylor?

  You know, I'm hard on the fans, but.

• 34:14Speaker 02

  No, I do. I respect their business model. I mean, listen, you've created this phenomenal, much talked about podcast in a sea of podcasts. You've broken through by being savvy. That's what he did, by being smart, by knowing your value, by beating those who think they know the game more. And you turned it into what you said at the beginning, subscribe. You have, there are names that have been doing this a long time that you usurp. You swept up those people because you were a smart businessman. You knew, as anybody else, come in and talk to three black men, they're gonna be, you changed the whole game with the podcast and how you present yourself. That's what he did. He presented the NFL and the players in a different way. Tom Landry with the hat, everything.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  It's what you see, it's what you hear, and it's what you want to be a part of. And that's what you guys have done.

• 35:01Ryan Clark?

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• 35:18Fred Taylor?

  Well, let's pivot real quick then.

• 35:19Speaker 02

  You're welcome.

• 35:21Fred Taylor?

  Today, right? She educated us a little bit. Right, for sure. I gotta get to her. And you talked about.

• 35:29Fred Taylor?

  Wow, cuz you on the show, you get the fist bump. Get out of here. Wow. You spoke about Jerry putting a hole in the stadium so, you know, God can watch the guy. He can shine a light on it. You know, I wanna fast forward and, you know, for years, you've been building your brand by yourself. Well, you've had your team.

• 35:48Speaker 02

  No, no, yeah, I know what you mean.

• 35:49Fred Taylor?

  Outside family. But now you're sunshine.

• 35:54Fred Taylor?

  Your son.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  My baby.

• 35:55Fred Taylor?

  How has that changed?

• 35:56Speaker 02

  Oh, gosh, I love, I mean, we talk, I, he's my favorite guy. That's why, and I was late, I'm so embarrassed. And I'm a stickler for being on time because another thing is, black people were always late, black women, I was late. So I really take time and I value it. I value the time of other people. But I needed to run and pick my son up from school and then drop him off and then make it here. But it was life changing. I was a mom at 48. I just turned 52.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  I love him so dearly. I'm so fascinated by what he will become. I am happy to pour into him the things that I've learned, the things that I've loved. We went to Italy this year. It was my dream. I remember when I was single and I was in Paris in a beautiful hotel once and I'm lying in bed and all I could think about was one day, will I be able to share this with a child? And as amazing as that trip was and as beautiful, there was something missing for me. Not for everybody, not for every woman. It was missing for me. So the pandemic happened and we really couldn't travel. And then we were able to take my son for 14 days to Italy and to watch your child, you know, run across the Tuscan sun. I was like, I made it.

• 37:07Speaker 02

  I did every dead gone bad thing that's happened. Look at him in his Gucci sandals.

• 37:15Speaker 02

  That is what it's all about for me. And I love that I had a son. I initially said I didn't want a son, which is, I'm just being honest. I was like, I don't want a son. Their clothes are terrible and they just wear sneakers and T-shirts all day. Didn't you cry when you found out? Allegedly, allegedly. I didn't cry. You said Google. I did, I did. I cried. And no, and I hate that I revealed it because my son will one day hear this. But the story was, I was in shock. When you go through IDF that you can, there is a way to pick the gender. And I said, no, I've done enough science. I'll leave this to the universe and God. And then I learned with my husband that it was a boy. And I was like, no, a boy. I was like, I gotta teach him the pee pee standing up.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  And they smell and their sneakers stink. And I just, all these bad things about boys rushed through my mind. And I thought, I thought my daughter would have a matching dress like this. You know, women, we go through that. Like, all we see is ourself. Just as I'm sure men with their boys, you see yourself. And then I learned he's a boy. And he came home and I could never have imagined, I can't imagine my life with a daughter now. Now, I love my son. I want him to, whomever is his partner, whatever he decides in his life, I just hope that he sees how much his mom enjoyed her life and how happy. He'll hear the stories about this or that and I...

• 38:41Speaker 02

  But I do, I want him to say, "I had a happy mom and she was awesome." And he pours that into his life and his journey. But I love him, he's so cute. Have you seen that kid? You seen that hair?

• 38:52Channing Crowder?

  I know your husband said he was gonna tell him when he got a little older.

• 38:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, he may not be my husband by that time if he does that. No, I'm kidding. No, my husband is like, "That's right." No, no, no.

• 39:02Channing Crowder?

  No, no, no, I wanna ask Stephen.

• 39:03Speaker 02

  Oh, my, okay. Is Stephen here? Oh, God, I was saying, is that somebody who's got a show where you're surprised when you hear what they're spouting? I'm like, "I'll pass it," because he was leaving when I was leaving.

• 39:12Channing Crowder?

  Super successful. Like R.C. brought up, beautiful woman, we can all see it. Just well spoken, like, "How do you shoot?" I know, I know the dude was shooting at you. Why was his shot better than the other guy's shot? He shot it like Steph, that's why. Yeah, I was like, "Man, what is he doing?"

• 39:30Speaker 02

  He was corny.

• 39:31Channing Crowder?

  Shooting from 48?

• 39:32Speaker 02

  He was corny.

• 39:33Channing Crowder?

  Really? That's what you like?

• 39:35Speaker 02

  No.

• 39:35Channing Crowder?

  It's square.

• 39:36Speaker 02

  He's not corny, he's not corny. He's actually, he's really not.

• 39:38Channing Crowder?

  You know where she was going.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  My husband was the executive producer of The Bernie Mac Show. He represents a lot of artists. He's very, very well-rounded, from the Bronx. But I just, he was representing an artist and he came up to me and he said, "Hey, this artist is a fan of yours and has invited you to come to their home." And I'm like, "I'm not going to anybody's home." And I was like, "Is he trying to represent me too?" Anyway, I gave him my business number. We kept running into each other and every time we'd run into each other, he'd say, "Oh, gosh, I called you but you didn't answer." I was like, "Oh, no, I don't know what happened." I hadn't given him my bat phone, as we call it. I gave him another phone. Anyway, I kept running into him, running into him.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  My husband is five feet tall and I'm in like wire glasses, a classic New York Jewish kid. And he's like asking me, "Yeah, I wanna represent..." He's asking me things, but it all sounds like, "Can I represent you?" And I kept blowing him off. True story. I lost my job, I was on an airplane and a guy that I had been seeing, that I broke it off with, is on the plane. Now, when we break it off, we expect you to stay single for 500 years. He was there with a Russian model in first class behind me and I'm like, "Oh, my God." And he's there, he's back there, and I hear them talking and giggling, and I'm like, "Dear God, this can't be happening. What more can I..." And I broke up with him, but I wanted him to be sad in the corner.

• 41:02Channing Crowder?

  You wanted him to be crying over you, still.

• 41:03Speaker 02

  Yes, I wanted him to be miserable in therapy, like, "What did I do wrong? What did I do wrong?" And he was behind me, and I saw my husband, Steven, and I was like, "Okay, great, I can chit chat with Steven as a decoy." I'm talking to Steven, and we're walking, and we get off the plane, we're going to the Grammy party, and he's like, "I just come to my company's party." I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, but just keep talking to me, keep me from looking back at Glamazon and my ex-man." And so, I walk on, and I get in my car, I go about my way, and I don't talk to Steven again. I was having a pity party, because the deal with Harvey wasn't going well, he hadn't paid me yet, and some of these things about him were starting to bubble up. And I was in the hotel that I wasn't supposed to be staying in, and I was like, crying

• 41:47Speaker 02

  my eyes out, like, "What is happening to my life? I should be having a better ex..." You know, "This is God, what did you do to me?" And I went to the pool, after I threw myself a pity party, I went to the pool, and I ran into Steven, and he sat down near me, and he started talking, "What are you doing here? Na, na, na." And I had a swimsuit on, and I remember reaching for my cover and trying to cover myself up, because I'm not a nudist, and I started pulling my clothes down. He goes, "What are you doing?" I said, "I'm Muslim. I can't let you see me like this. I'm not Muslim. I'm just trying to, like, cover myself up." Anyway, long story short, he shot his shot by asking me a very pivotal question, that you should always ask if you're a single man: "What's your favorite pizza?"

• 42:27Channing Crowder?

  Have you heard pizza?

• 42:28Speaker 02

  Pizza. And I said, "I know good pizza." He said, "No, I know better pizza." He asked me out on a simple date of pizza. It wasn't, "Let's go here, let's boop bop, let's get..." He said, "Let's go out and film some pizza." Okay, and we moved in, like, two weeks, three weeks later.

• 42:44Channing Crowder?

  What kind of pizza?

• 42:45Fred Taylor?

  What kind of pizza that was?

• 42:46Channing Crowder?

  That was the best pizza in the history of time.

• 42:48Fred Taylor?

  That's a real slice. You guys talking about that he knows this story?

• 42:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:51Fred Taylor?

  He knows the pity on the plane?

• 42:53Speaker 02

  Oh, he knows the whole thing. We don't hold back. He might not know the other part.

• 42:57Channing Crowder?

  Hey, Francis, here's the thing, though. A win is a win.

• 42:59Fred Taylor?

  A win is a win.

• 43:00Channing Crowder?

  Let me try to tell this.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  Oh, gosh, let me see.

• 43:03Channing Crowder?

  Because you know my wife.

• 43:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love your wife.

• 43:06Channing Crowder?

  This is my game. The pizza thing is good, but this is my game. Hey, you know, you seen James?

• 43:12Channing Crowder?

  You seen James?

• 43:13Speaker 02

  Who's James?

• 43:14Channing Crowder?

  I don't know, I thought you knew James. Hi, what's your name again?

• 43:16Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 43:21Channing Crowder?

  That's Terry, that's pretty good.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  Oh, well, OK, you got her.

• 43:25Channing Crowder?

  You sit, come down.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  You want a beautiful woman, so I'll give you that.

• 43:27Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, you know what I'm saying?

• 43:28Speaker 02

  And she's smart, and she's, yes. It's simple, people always think it's the, I, I have, I've been fortunate enough to date just about everybody I wanted to date. And I've had wonderful dating, I always tell people, it wasn't, there was nothing wrong with them, nothing wrong with me, sometimes it's timing. And so, most of the relationships in my past, I'm still friends with, I, 95% of my exes, I'm still friends with. They still, my husband hates it, I, he's like, why is he calling you for advice? You, you guys are together, I'm like, why not? So, it's a big, a big battle we have over my ex's calling to check in. And I know the ones that are checking in.

• 44:02Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  But I know the difference.

• 44:04Channing Crowder?

  But on, once a, once a man knows that you done bumped uglies with another man, he doesn't want...

• 44:10Speaker 02

  Ugly?

• 44:10Channing Crowder?

  That's what I call it. That's the nicest you've ever said it. It is. You really respect him.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  Thank you, I love you.

• 44:16Channing Crowder?

  Listen, Terry, I love Terry.

• 44:17Speaker 02

  I love you.

• 44:17Channing Crowder?

  I really wish I was on the show.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  I love you, he's amazing, you wait till you see the episode, it's gonna...

• 44:21Channing Crowder?

  But, yeah, I'll, I'll, I'm on Steven's side. I don't want, I don't want you around dudes you done bumped uglies with before.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  But, but that's, that's implying that I can't handle myself, and I can handle myself. I mean, my ex, I have one that recently called me, and he's like, oh, I, my, because I dyed my hair, well, I changed my hair blonde, I wore this week for it. And he was like, you look hot in the blonde hair. I knew that wasn't appropriate. I could tell that, you know, it's like, uh, but I had another recently call, and he's like, hey, um, if you're around, let's grab coffee, something, something, I don't, I won't go for coffee, and they ask, but, but I will talk on the phone. And one of them is very funny, and we have this kind of banter over sports. He hates the Cowboys, so he'll call me about sports or whatever, but I won't go out for coffee, I won't go out for drinks. I don't really want to talk about the past, right?

• 45:12Speaker 02

  We don't want to relitigate them. So I have boundaries. But my husband thinks it's all off limits. So I just, it's a bad, it's a sore subject with him. It is, and he goes, "Well, what if I talk to my..." I'm like, "Okay, as long as you're not meeting up at the Chateau Marmont in the lobby. I don't care." But I think it's fine, and I'm happy. And I think it's a good sign that most of my exes, not all, but most, think that I'm a good person. It's somebody, I'm somebody they want to know, and still know. I think that's a good thing.

• 45:41Ryan Clark?

  So, you know, we often ask on this show, "What was your biggest pivot?" And it seems like you've had so much happen in your life that's led you to this point. And I think it's huge to me that the name of your show is your actual name. Right now, it's not very often that that happens. A lot of times, you're doing this great work, and you're being seen, and you're being visible, but you're being visible under someone else's name. You've made it to a point where now you are representing you, but not just yourself. What do you feel is your biggest pivot or the moment that led you to where we are now?

• 46:15Speaker 02

  Learning that I'm a businesswoman. I had to pivot out of just being a journalist and pivoting into a businesswoman and a brand. You know, we're not raised to think of ourselves as brands, but we are. And that was the biggest pivot. Like, the show was the pivot because my back was against the wall, and I needed to work, honestly. And I didn't want to work in that environment again of that news organization. But my biggest pivot has been the business side of this, is, like I said, I just sold a cookbook. I just sold a children's book. I finished my crime novel. I'm working on a documentary on teenagers and mental health. I see myself as a business, which is foreign for us to do. And that's what I want to pass on to the next generation of broadcasters.

• 46:57Speaker 02

  Whatever venue you're in, sports, entertainment, whatever, you've got to think of yourself as a business. And that's how you get the longevity. When I was starting out, Robin, Robin Robinson, who was a local news anchor in Chicago, not Robin Roberts from GMA, Robin Robinson, and she said to me, "Either you quit this business, or it quits you." And that's what the advice was of her generation. Now, the advice is, make yourself a brand. So that you're not tied to one thing. And that'll give you the longevity Jay-Z talks about. And you hear this kind of branding conversation. It's in the zeitgeist as they say. But for me, the biggest pivot was saying, how do I do it? And then doing it. And so I'm proud of that. I'm proud that I've been working on a lot of other projects to diversify. Because I do want to make money in my sleep.

• 47:42Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 47:43Speaker 02

  And it's OK to say that. It's OK to talk openly about money. And so often, we don't. It's kind of just in the, you know, other people talk about it. But we should aspire to make money in our sleep. And that means you've created things that have a value in the marketplace that you don't have to get up every day and deal with. That you have a brand. So that's my pivot.

• 48:04Ryan Clark?

  Well, I mean, we obviously knew that this show, and tell Asia don't make fun of me for saying obviously, because I know she does.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  Obviously.

• 48:14Ryan Clark?

  Obviously. We knew this show would be amazing because you get to sit down with some people that carry the show for you. And people don't give you a show with your own name if you aren't excellent.

• 48:25Channing Crowder?

  Oh, and it's a production now.

• 48:26Speaker 02

  Oh, it's a production.

• 48:28Channing Crowder?

  They got, they got a staff back there.

• 48:29Speaker 02

  We got snacks. We give.

• 48:30Ryan Clark?

  Oh, they got snacks?

• 48:32Speaker 02

  I haven't said, we have snacks.

• 48:33Ryan Clark?

  We don't have no snacks. We got Happy Dad, but we don't have no snacks.

• 48:36Channing Crowder?

  Oh, we got to tell ourselves.

• 48:37Speaker 02

  Happy Dad, oh my God. I got snacks. I get water. I don't even know if it's filtered. I knew.

• 48:44Ryan Clark?

  Wow, we bougie now? From Lula, Texas, we gonna be bougie and all we drink is filtered water.

• 48:50Channing Crowder?

  They got refrigerators everywhere.

• 48:52Ryan Clark?

  Right. But, but thank you, thank you so much for, for sitting down with us. For three former football players who do a podcast in what you said is a very saturated market. It means a lot to us that, that you took time out of the day.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  Well, I'm very proud of you guys. And I don't say that lightly because I know how hard it is to break into the room and own the room. And you're owning it. So cheers with my unfiltered water.

• 49:15Ryan Clark?

  They got, we got, I don't have a Happy Dad.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  It's me.

• 49:19Ryan Clark?

  And again, guys, listen, it's October. The pivot is still, it's the pivot to pink. We're supporting breast cancer and breast cancer awareness. Continue to make sure if you have somebody that's fighting, or if you know of any of these breast cancer warriors and the things that they've been through, continue to support them and support the families that have to take care of them during their battles. But for us, this is it. The pivot is pleased. And as Channing always says, the pivot is happy.

• 49:46Channing Crowder?

  The pivot's happy.

• 49:46Speaker 02

  The pivot is happy.

• 49:48Channing Crowder?

  Tamara happy?

• 49:49Speaker 02

  I'm happy.

• 49:49Ryan Clark?

  But when is Channing's show coming out?

• 49:52Speaker 02

  It had so much editing we had to do.

• 49:54Channing Crowder?

  Oh, boy.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  I have the date. It was, listen, it is and will be one of the most unforgettable episodes of the Tamara Hall Show. And here's a tease, he cried.

• 50:06Channing Crowder?

  I cried.

• 50:07Ryan Clark?

  You cried?

• 50:08Speaker 02

  He cried.

• 50:09Ryan Clark?

  She's so great. And then as she saw the emotion, she just kept digging.

• 50:16Channing Crowder?

  You know, your homeboy is gonna let you go when you start breathing hard. Tamara was like, no.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  He cried. We were all, he cried.

• 50:23Channing Crowder?

  Leaned into me.

• 50:26Ryan Clark?

  She made you feel comfortable?

• 50:31Speaker 02

  He gave us a lip quiver and everything. It was amazing.

• 50:34Ryan Clark?

  Wow. Well, we can't, we can't wait to see it.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  I can't wait.

• 50:38Ryan Clark?

  I know it's gonna be excellent. Thank you so much.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  Thank you, guys. Thank you.

• 50:41Ryan Clark?

  You big crybaby.

• 51:08Speaker 00

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 51:18Speaker 00

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