Shawn Ryan: Biden’s Cancer, Kash & Bongino on Epstein, & CIA Attempts to Infiltrate Podcasts

Shawn Ryan on the Biden cancer lie, his years working for the CIA, and why suddenly everything seems fake. 0:00 Joe Biden’s Cancer Diagnosis 33:27 Everything Is a Lie 1:32:29 Shawn’s Career in the CIA 2:31:49 The Spiritual Revival Happening in the US Paid partnerships with: Beam: Get 30% off for a limited time using the code TUCKER at https://ShopBeam.com/Tucker Identity Guard: Get a 30-day free trial and over 60% off when you sign up at https://IdentityGuard.com/Tucker Hallow prayer app: Get 3 months free at https://Hallow.com/Tucker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:28Tucker Carlson?

  So the Joe Biden has, it turns out, Joe Biden has metastatic bone cancer.

• 0:34Speaker 02

  I saw that.

• 0:37Tucker Carlson?

  And of course, you know, every urologist in the world immediately knows this is a lie. He's known for years because PSA test shows and this is a very slow growing cancer and now it sounds like it's terminal. And so for 10 years, his doctors have known that he has this and they've lied to us about it and everyone's mad at Joe Biden. But then the other way to look at it is like, who kept that secret from the rest of us? And who's actually running the government for those four years?

• 1:25Speaker 02

  I think that's the big question, right? But I mean, do you know Lindy Lee?

• 1:29Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 1:29Speaker 02

  Heard of Lindy Lee?

• 1:30Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 1:30Speaker 02

  She was, uh, she was on the staff and, and she came on the show to, to talk about who was running the country. She said it was all the staffers. It was all the millennial staffers that were pretty much running the country and nobody was talking to each other. Everybody had their own agendas and yeah, I mean, pretty much like

• 1:52Speaker 02

  all the stuff that we already knew, but she just came on to confirm it and then switch sides.

• 1:59Tucker Carlson?

  But I mean, that's like the opposite of democracy, right?

• 2:02Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah.

• 2:06Tucker Carlson?

  I guess I vacillate between not being shocked at all. I mean, of course, I mean, he was visibly demented. So why should we be surprised that he also, hey, by the way, he has terminal bone cancer. But on the other hand, it's like, that is so not the system that we signed up for and that we participate in.

• 2:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, we didn't sign up for, but we did. I mean,

• 2:33Speaker 02

  I, look, I remember at the beginning of the election cycle, when Fox News was going on and on about Joe Biden's cognitive ability. And, and I was like, I mean, this is probably just over embellished, you know? And then I saw the first.

• 2:48Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, were you watching Fox News again?

• 2:50Speaker 02

  This was, this was a long time ago. But, but, uh, but, but yeah, I was, I thought, because I mean, I think all media, you know, obviously over embellishes and just flat out lies. And I was, I just thought, I was like, there's no way that this guy's that bad. And then the first presidential debate, I quit watching it because I was like, holy shit, this guy legitimately cannot put a sentence together. I was like, they're actually not over embellishing this. And it was on display for millions, the entire country,

• 3:27Speaker 02

  still won the vote, supposedly.

• 3:29Tucker Carlson?

  I feel like an idiot for being shocked because of course, it's not a democracy. Of course, the system is rigged. It's fake. Because no matter who gets elected, no matter who gets elected, you get the same foreign policy, you get the same economic policy, and the Epstein videos remain secret. So like, that just shows you that our system has no effect on the actual system.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  Wait, what are you talking about? I thought we could all sleep well at night now, knowing that Epstein legitimately killed himself, right?

• 4:01Tucker Carlson?

  What was that?

• 4:02Speaker 02

  Did that just come out?

• 4:04Tucker Carlson?

  It's just two guys that I really like. I mean, I, I love Bongino, but, um, he's a friend of mine. Uh, but so you, but you weren't convinced by that?

• 4:17Speaker 02

  No.

• 4:17Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 4:20Speaker 02

  I mean, just, I've dug into that and it's just so spooky what's going on with that and how nobody, nobody, I mean, how do you charge a guy with sex trafficking when there are no, there's no end users that have been charged? Who did he traffic to?

• 4:39Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's a great question.

• 4:42Tucker Carlson?

  Uh, I don't know. You got me on that one.

• 4:45Speaker 02

  I mean, right? How do, how do you charge him with that if there's no, if there's no, I mean, if that's where the trail starts, where does it end? So I think there's just a lot more going on than the majority of people know about.

• 5:01Tucker Carlson?

  What do you think that was?

• 5:02Speaker 02

  What do I think it was?

• 5:03Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 5:03Speaker 02

  I think it was a blackmail operation.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  What do you think it was?

• 5:08Tucker Carlson?

  I think it was a blackmail operation run by the CIA and the Israeli intel services and, and probably others, you know, French intelligence always has a hand in everything I've noticed. So probably them too, you know, but the, the usual, you know, darkest forces in the world colluding to make rich and powerful people obey their agenda.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  I mean, look though, I don't, I just, I don't understand why

• 5:34Speaker 02

  nobody has come out on it. Nobody has come out on it. Right? I mean, because if you paint the scenario, I mean, you get on a jet, maybe, maybe you're totally innocent. You don't know what's going on. Two hot women come out of the whatever stewardess place, come out and one thing leads to another.

• 5:57Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  I mean, and then, and then what happens? They go, oh, we got you. You're on camera. And by the way, these girls are 15 or 16 or whatever the hell they were, right? And, but I mean, it's, yes, I mean, yes, if you're a married guy is pretty fucked up that you're doing that. But I mean, it's nothing, nothing new under the sun. So why wouldn't you just scream blackmail at the top of your lungs? Like I didn't know this is what happened and just come clean on it.

• 6:29Tucker Carlson?

  What do you think?

• 6:31Speaker 02

  Because they're repeat customers.

• 6:33Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 6:35Tucker Carlson?

  Because they're so deeply implicated that they can't actually get out of it.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe not. I don't know.

• 6:41Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, there's also, at least in me, the growing sense that it's not just blackmail that makes people obey. It's not just bribery. It's also the threat of violence.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  Do you know anybody that's been threatened with violence?

• 7:00Tucker Carlson?

  I think every US president has been threatened with violence implicitly because of the murder of John F. Kennedy. I've known a bunch of presidents and I think every one of them understands that, you know, it's pretty obvious what happened there, or the outlines, you know, maybe not the details. And no one has, to this day, released all the files. And like, why is that? Because the message is really clear. You know, if you get too far outside the boundaries, like you could wind up like JFK.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  Who places the boundaries?

• 7:39Tucker Carlson?

  Probably the same forces that murdered the sitting president in 1963. You know what I mean? Like, if you listen to the tape of Richard Nixon talking to the CIA director in the Oval Office, no one else around, of course, it's being taped, and Nixon knows that's because it's his taping system, but it's still his. Like, he's known, he has no expectation anyone's gonna hear this. When he brings up Kennedy's murder, he's the president. In fact, now he's the president. He got, he won by the biggest landslide in American history. He has a real mandate, and he is afraid. He's afraid even to talk in private to the CIA director about what that was. And he indicates, like, I know what happened to Jack Kennedy. And the CIA director doesn't even respond. And the president

• 8:21Tucker Carlson?

  doesn't have the balls to say, hey, son, I'm talking to you. You work for me. Like, I want, I want the files on this. Like, I knew Jack Kennedy. He was murdered. He was shot in the head next to his wife in public. Like, the man died. I want to know what happened here. He does not have the balls to say that to his own CIA director.

• 8:38Speaker 02

  Man.

• 8:39Tucker Carlson?

  That's the level of fear that a murder like that, that's officially unsolved, but, you know, whose outline everyone really, a lot of people understand, like, that's the fear that that inculcates.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  Do you think it runs that deep with everybody?

• 8:53Tucker Carlson?

  I think if you're president...

• 8:56Tucker Carlson?

  You're very aware of the physical risk of the job, wouldn't you be?

• 9:01Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, but I think that goes without saying, but I mean, some of these guys on the, you know, lower levels, I mean, I, I don't know, it's just so sophisticated. I mean, and when you dive into it, it seems so sophisticated and having been a, you know, a small part in some of the intel agencies, it's just not that.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  I think people place, give them a lot more credit than they deserve.

• 9:23Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I believe in.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  You know, and uh, but isn't, I think there's a thing also where it's just addiction to power.

• 9:30Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  Then they're so fucking scared that they're gonna lose their power. And I mean, you see in every administration, to include this one, people that are, you know, it's, it's, everybody wants to help the country, right? But everybody wants to help the country that they have their, their thing that they could do to help the country. And then they get placed in something they have no fucking business being in at all. They know there are better people to run that sector of the government, but hey, I'll, I'll take it because I'm the best. No, the fuck you're not. You're not the best. You know, and that's, I saw that in this one and it really fucking pissed me off.

• 10:06Tucker Carlson?

  In which one? In the Epstein?

• 10:09Speaker 02

  In, in, in, in this administration, there are people in there that I despise that I know, don't know what the fuck they're doing. And.

• 10:18Tucker Carlson?

  Who?

• 10:19Speaker 02

  Like Sebastian Gorka.

• 10:23Tucker Carlson?

  It's hard to believe he works there. What? No. So why don't, why haven't you caught Seb Gorka fever? Why don't you love Sebastian Gorka?

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Well, I'll tell you why. I mean, he blast, we were talking about the, the Sam Shoemate interview with the Tesla bomber.

• 10:38Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  Last night, right? And everybody called me, oh, he's showing some fucking CIA shill and he's an operative still and all this other shit. One, I was just a contractor over there. But anyways, that's not the point. He came on, he, he posted this thing on Twitter saying with this guy, Ryan Macbeth, who did this whole debunking my episode, right?

• 11:02Speaker 02

  And for whatever reason, he got pissed at me for doing that interview, Gorka, and posts the Ryan Macbeth little, I don't know, 10 minute clip that's debunking my, my interview.

• 11:18Speaker 02

  And Sebastian Gorka posts this thing on Twitter. I'll send you the thing. Maybe you can overlay it on the screen. And he said something like, oh, he he debunks another one. Well, then later on, Ryan Macbeth does an apology video because the FBI actually came out and said, oh, shit, the email on the on the podcast, they didn't want to name the podcast, of course, but they email on the podcast, we have confirmed as being legit. As soon as they did that, Macbeth actually came out and did an apology video. And I was like, hey, cool. But

• 11:57Speaker 02

  thank you. Thank you for the apology. So I blasted Gorka on X and and said, because what is he in charge of now? I can't remember.

• 12:06Tucker Carlson?

  He's at the National Security Council. I think he's in charge of scrolling Twitter. I think that was his official.

• 12:12Speaker 02

  Supposedly, he's counterterrorism guy, right? And I'm like, oh, this is great. We got a guy that's running counterterrorism for the entire fucking country when when when the borders have been wide open for four years. We know there's at least a thousand

• 12:32Speaker 02

  terrorists within the country setting up cells. And this guy gets his information from an internet troll, Ryan Macbeth, who's already come out and apologized to me. And I'm like, oh, this is perfect. This is where intel is going to come from, from counterterrorism, a guy that gets his information from.

• 12:49Tucker Carlson?

  If it makes you feel better, I mean, Gorka is not taken seriously by anyone who knows him, I think, including his wife. And he's a very, he's a nice person for whatever's worth. And I, I think his job literally is just to sit on the internet and like, send, you know, fiery replies to people on X. I mean, I don't think he actually has a job.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Oh, well, then I guess he's the perfect guy for the job.

• 13:13Tucker Carlson?

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• 16:29Tucker Carlson?

  So for people who missed it, which would include pretty much nobody since it was the biggest story for sure that week, the guy who blew up his Tesla with himself inside, outside Trump Tower, you got his manifesto.

• 16:49Tucker Carlson?

  Can you just give us a refresher on what that said?

• 16:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, so a little rusty on it, but in the manifesto, he had basically sent this guy, Sam Schumate, who is an Army intel guy, a manifesto and said that he wanted to come on the Sean Ryan Show podcast to talk about all these things. And then he goes into, this was right about the time that the New Jersey drone situation was going on, that nobody, you know, could tell us what that was. And he had mentioned that we have some type of anti-gravitic propulsion systems that had been, that had not been declassified and that China has something similar and this

• 17:36Speaker 02

  would, this would cause World War III. And then there's another paragraph that talks about...

• 17:44Speaker 02

  Uh, there was a, a major offensive in Afghanistan several years ago where they, they basically wiped out a heroin plant and uh, used a lot of air power to do it. It sounds like a J, there was a JTAC and a small team of uh, special ops and they had bombed all of these different little facilities going on and killed, probably killed a lot of innocent people. And that's actually, cause, cause when we looked into it, I was like, ah, I don't know this anti-gravitic shit. This is kind of weird, you know? I mean, there's a lot of chatter about it on the internet like we had talked about last night,

• 18:28Speaker 02

  but I, you know, I don't know. I, I kind of think now that that's all just a big distraction. But when we looked into the, to the, whatever you want to call them, but for lack of a better term, war crimes, I don't know about the operation, right? I mean, I'm not saying we should have or should not have bombed that facility. I mean, obviously it's bad and it's a major moneymaker for terrorist organizations. But uh, when we dug into it, there was a UN report that talked about that specific night and that um, the UN had, I believe, did they open investigation? I think they opened an investigation on it uh, because it was uh, against,

• 19:09Speaker 02

  I don't know if it was Geneva Convention or, or what it was, but uh, you could not bomb

• 19:17Speaker 02

  drug factories with civilians in it. And so it had talked about, you know, how many targets and people and innocents were killed. And I was like, oh, so this, this actually lines up um, with what this guy's saying on the email, which you know, maybe, maybe not gives, gives, you know, the previous thing that we were talking about a little more validity. So anyway, so yeah, I got, what was the question? What was that? So you, it sounds like you take

• 19:46Tucker Carlson?

  the manifesto seriously. You think it's real?

• 19:48Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:49Tucker Carlson?

  The guy actually wrote it?

• 19:50Speaker 02

  Well, then, you know, then the other weird thing that gave it a lot of validity is, cause we, so when that interview came, popped up on my radar, walked in uh, to the studio, getting ready to interview somebody, Jeremy, my producer comes to me and says, hey, we got a guy on this Tesla bomber thing. And I'm like, I don't know, man. We get thousands and thousands and thousands of emails of people that want to come clean on something or expose something and, you know, probably 99% of it is bullshit. And, you know, it's just somebody looking for-

• 20:24Tucker Carlson?

  There is a mental health crisis.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely. But, uh, so I was really apprehensive to do it. And, um, and Jeremy was was new at the time and I didn't 100% trust him yet. And I was like, ah, he's like, I think-

• 20:39Tucker Carlson?

  Jeremy.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  This guy right over here. And, um, but he was hell bent on it. And so we did a call with Sam and he didn't want to come on. And when he didn't want to come on, I was like, I like that. Okay. Let's plan hard to get. All right. So he wanted to go visit his, uh, family member of his. And he's like, look, I just want to go hang out with this family member. I don't want to be there. And I said, hey, how, okay, look, we'll, we'll book you a flight here and book your flight, uh, to where you're going. And this should only take a couple hours. And, uh, he was like, all right, well, let me think about it. And then got back when I was doing the interview and wanted to come on. Well, I get, so Jeremy tells me on a break,

• 21:24Speaker 02

  hey, we've got him. He's going to be here first thing in the morning. Well, I get done with the interview and I look at my phone and all these people are texting me about the interview I'm about to do. And they're like, hey, you know, there's this, this DEA agent that was on the op and his name was actually listed in the email. And they were like, he doesn't, he doesn't want his name to come out because he's still active. And I'm like, you know, I'm not, I'm not going to burn somebody that's, that's still active and undercover operations. I mean, that would, that could get him killed. And, um, and, and

• 22:07Speaker 02

  his family killed. So I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to dabble in stuff that we're working on. But-

• 22:15Speaker 02

  At the same time, it may be extremely paranoid. I'm like, how the hell does everybody know that I'm getting ready to do this? So then I'm, then I'm thinking all my, all the people that are texting me are controlled assets or something. And then we had a, we had another friend of mine sent me a text and he says, hey, this, the army's public affair officer wants to talk to you about tomorrow's interview. And I called him up. Yeah, I called him up and reamed his ass. And I'm like, why the fuck are you texting me this shit? If the army P A O wants to get ahold of me, I've got a website, I've got social, I've got all these things that he can get ahold of me at. And why is he

• 22:56Speaker 02

  using you to get to me? And why have you inserted your shit, yourself into, into my business? And, because you know, I mean, I'm sure you get it. I mean, this, when you're uncovering some of this stuff, it, it can cause some extreme paranoia on who your friends are and what their motivations are and who's flipped. And, and so I wouldn't talk to him. I said, I'm not talking to him, but I'll pass the number to my attorney and Jeremy, and they can talk to him. And then when they talk to him, they, they wanted to kind of place it on PTSD, which wound up being the ultimate narrative from the mainstream media,

• 23:40Speaker 02

  right? PTSD.

• 23:42Tucker Carlson?

  It being the, the motive for killing himself.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think that they used PT, they, they used PTSD to, to basically insinuate that he is a crazy person. But, I mean, pretty much everybody I know and have worked with, all my former colleagues, I mean, we all have that. And I mean, I'm not going to say we're not crazy, but, but not crazy like that. I mean, it's, it's just a condition and you can get over it. And, and he wasn't crazy. I mean, he obviously wanted to send some type of a message. I mean, you got a, a Green Beret with a full career in special operations, definitely knows demolition. And there is no way in hell that a, that a...

• 24:33Speaker 02

  Lifelong Green Beret would put a bomb inside of a bulletproof truck to take out Trump Tower, kill a bunch of people. I mean, it was obviously, he just wanted to get some attention and get whatever the message that he was trying to get out, out. And so that's what I think.

• 24:52Tucker Carlson?

  We could have just tweeted about it. You know, he didn't have to kill himself. So that's a pretty extreme, pretty extreme thing. Yeah. Most, most extreme thing possible. What do you think his motive really was?

• 25:05Speaker 02

  Like I said, I don't, I think he wanted to bring attention to the topics that he had and

• 25:10Tucker Carlson?

  The anti-gravity.

• 25:12Speaker 02

  The anti-gravitic propulsion system.

• 25:14Tucker Carlson?

  Gravitic.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  And, and, and we looked into that and all we could find is sci-fi shit. But,

• 25:21Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think any of it's real? I mean, you've interviewed people. In fact, the first show I ever saw of yours was with a building contractor who said he ran across anti-gravity technology in a military facility.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Do I think anti-gravitic propulsion systems are real? I don't know. I mean,

• 25:42Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think there are significant technologies, next generation energy, anti-gravity that the US government?

• 25:50Speaker 02

  Oh, 100%. I mean, we just, yes, I do. I, I think that all this alien extraterrestrial shit, I mean,

• 26:01Speaker 02

  it's fun to dig down there, but I mean, I think it's a big distraction. I don't know if it's meant to be some type of a controlled op, but I think it is, I think all this stuff is spiritual. That's what I think.

• 26:16Tucker Carlson?

  Of course it is.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  Think all this stuff is spiritual, all these things that people are saying and stuff. I think, I think there's a spirituality component to it. Now,

• 26:24Tucker Carlson?

  That these are angels and demons or what?

• 26:26Speaker 02

  Pretty much.

• 26:26Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  And, and,

• 26:30Speaker 02

  Where was I going with this and anti-gravitic propulsion systems? I mean, yeah, I think we, I mean, I would hope that we have shit that that is next generation stuff that's not, you know, the same shit we've been using since World War II.

• 26:46Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. So the only real technological advances in 80 years are like the iPhone.

• 26:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, we have advances. Like we just interviewed this guy, Steve Quast. And do you know Steve Quast?

• 27:00Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  Holy shit. Fascinating guy. But um, he talks about uh, how he talks about next generation energy and the fight that the utilities companies don't want us to have new energy. But anyways, what this guy does is he, he has a company called Space Built, I believe. And so he is, he's basically created a logistics company where instead of launching one satellite up, he can, which, which he's, he says that's extremely expensive and sometimes they break and they're fragile and they have to make the satellites bulletproof, which is a ton

• 27:43Speaker 02

  of weight because they have to be able to, you know, withstand, you know, going through the atmosphere. And so what he's done is he is building a logistics company where they don't have to make the satellites bulletproof. You can make them 10 times bigger than the satellites that we have and you launch them up in sections and pack them safely so that they can make the trip without having all that extra weight to be bulletproof. And then his company would actually assemble those through um, laser robotics in space. And so what he, what he says is possible. Is, and I believe him. I mean, he's got a, he's got a, he's got the right background to be talking about this stuff.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  And so what he says we can do, and we already have the technology is basically they would put these ginormous satellites up into orbit. And they would be solar. So you wouldn't, but they would, it would actually be a reliable renewable energy source because there's no clouds. There's no atmosphere. There's no air particles getting in the way to collect that radiation from the sun. It would convert it from solar into some type of a, a radio wave. And you could beam it down into the, onto the earth to a, I can't remember what we called it, but it sounded like an antenna. So he basically put this antenna that receives.

• 29:09Tucker Carlson?

  It's an energy.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  Energy. And then, and then it would pump it back into the grid.

• 29:14Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  And, you know, I was just, but he, but.

• 29:17Tucker Carlson?

  So like a solar farm in space?

• 29:19Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. And

• 29:23Speaker 02

  I mean, he had talked about that and it's just like, man, like what? Why? This, this could be the answer. I mean, we could make earth. I mean, I think Elon said, right? We can make earth into a park. Was that him? And, but I mean, you could take out all the eyesores, all the huge solar farms that you see all over the country, the wind, the oil and gas. Like it, it could all be gone and you could do it this way. And.

• 29:49Tucker Carlson?

  Would you get green energy tax credits for it?

• 29:53Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 29:54Tucker Carlson?

  That, that's kind of the goal here. I don't think it's actually to power civilization or keep the earth clean. I think it's, it's the tax credits drive all this stuff. It's just greed. It's the ugliest kind of greed.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, so anyways, you know, that's next generation power right there. And they said that China's building a nuclear power plant in space and they're mining helium three off the, off the backside of the moon. And uh, it sounds like, I'm not terribly familiar with helium three, but it sounds like that is, um,

• 30:29Speaker 02

  that's also next generation power that can, that can cool, um.

• 30:36Speaker 02

  Data centers, AI stuff, and it would really take us to the next level of energy. But then he goes on to talk about how we're falling behind on, from China with energy production.

• 30:50Tucker Carlson?

  Well, sure.

• 30:51Speaker 02

  So.

• 30:52Tucker Carlson?

  Everyone's a marketing major.

• 30:54Speaker 02

  I think it's here.

• 30:55Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 30:56Speaker 02

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• 30:57Tucker Carlson?

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• 31:39Tucker Carlson?

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• 32:24Tucker Carlson?

  Identityguard.com/tucker.

• 32:27Speaker 00

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• 32:58Speaker 04

  Now for a quick message from Anthropic, the team behind Claude, the AI built for businesses. Customers count on their bank, and banks count on their most important systems. Now those systems count on Claude, and nine of the Fortune 10 companies use it for critical work. See why leading companies trust Claude at claude.ai/span.

• 33:21Tucker Carlson?

  So this, Al, Al, come here.

• 33:26Tucker Carlson?

  Sorry about that. Um, so this story and the weird way that it happened, you know, you get the manifesto from the guy who kills himself in the Cybertruck. All these other people know that you're about to do an interview on it. Were you worried you were gonna get hurt in that moment?

• 33:50Speaker 02

  I don't know if it's hurt. I, you know,

• 33:57Speaker 02

  I don't really care about me, but I worry about my family.

• 34:03Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  And, um, and so, you know, it's always an afterthought. The only one that I've done that, that I'm like, oof, I don't know if I should be doing this before was the Romania one that I was telling you about the other day. And, um,

• 34:19Tucker Carlson?

  What was the Romania interview?

• 34:20Speaker 02

  The Georgeescu interview where they, they yanked him out of the election. But it's always an afterthought, you know, after the interview, I'm like, oh, shit. I don't know if we should throw this one out. And, uh, because you know, we, they, the FBI would have never come out and, and given any validity to the, to the email, to the man, to the manifesto. And they, and I think that, I don't think I know that the interview, cause it got five million views and I don't know how many listens in just, you know, a couple of days. And, um, so, you know, when I see that kind of, of traction on something, I'm like, oh shit, I really kicked over a big rock here.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  I wonder what the repercussions of this are gonna be.

• 35:07Tucker Carlson?

  If you're traveling to Romania to interview a candidate who's been knocked out of the race by NATO. You know, all of a sudden, you're no longer really a podcaster. You're you're like a player in global politics.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  I just want to be a podcaster.

• 35:22Tucker Carlson?

  But I mean, that kind of.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  I'm only feeding my own curiosity.

• 35:26Tucker Carlson?

  For sure. But the second you start, you know, tampering with the way things are, then you become a problem and therefore fair game. No?

• 35:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, we had this discussion last night. I didn't sleep a fucking wink.

• 35:43Speaker 02

  I was like.

• 35:44Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I think the big lie is.

• 35:45Speaker 02

  I was like, Jeremy, I think Tucker's trying to tell me maybe I need to simmer down or something.

• 35:49Tucker Carlson?

  I don't think so at all. I just think you said last night, I'm just a podcaster. I was like, I'm familiar with that way of thinking. But if you just take three steps back. And, um, you know, if you're exposing things that are, you know, important things, big things, like who gets to run the world? And, um, you know, who's getting the money? You know, I think you're you're still a podcaster, but you're also something else.

• 36:15Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 36:16Tucker Carlson?

  Right?

• 36:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess somewhat of a disruptor. But, um, but you know, I just, when I do do it, I lean into, I mean, I lean into God. And I really just consider myself kind of a conduit. Not kind of a conduit. I consider myself a conduit. And whatever comes to me, um, is supposed to happen.

• 36:37Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 36:38Speaker 02

  And with the, like, for example, you know, I'm pretty new at this. I haven't completed the Bible or anything, but, but the more that I dig into just everything in the world, I think that I just think that everything, everything is a lie. Everything. I think it's all a lie. And, um, and, um, and then it's partially my job to expose, you know, what I know and to bring some type of truth and.

• 37:12Tucker Carlson?

  Can you give me an example? Well, I mean, clearly Joe Biden's health turned out to be a lie.

• 37:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:18Tucker Carlson?

  Epstein killed himself. Clearly a lie. Um, I I grieve that they said something like that in public because I I like those guys, particularly Dan, but that's that's a lie. I bet my house on it. Um, but what else? When you say everything's a lie, what are you referring to?

• 37:35Speaker 02

  I think everything is a lie.

• 37:39Tucker Carlson?

  Wow.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  I think.

• 37:41Tucker Carlson?

  Why do you think that?

• 37:43Speaker 02

  How could you not? I mean, you're way deeper in this stuff than I am. Think it's all a show. I think everybody is out for themselves.

• 37:53Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  And it sucks. It sucks to see that and to know it. And I mean, you know, COVID. COVID just got a lot of people thinking, to include me. And, and then when you start diving into,

• 38:11Speaker 02

  it just leads to all these different rabbit holes, right? The Epstein stuff, the COVID stuff, the, the, it just legitimately, everything, the UFO shit, all of it.

• 38:25Tucker Carlson?

  Should we be, I, I've reached a similar conclusion by that. I'm not making fun of you. I, of course, I agree with you. But should we be shocked by that? Or does it say that really explicitly in the New Testament? And like, we're just dumb and naive if we thought anything other than that.

• 38:39Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, and it says, right? I am the only truth. I am the truth.

• 38:45Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. And Satan runs the world, by the way. Says that.

• 38:48Speaker 02

  And so I think everything is a deception. Everything. Maybe even our whole reality is a deception.

• 38:59Tucker Carlson?

  So.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Like Neuralink, for example.

• 39:01Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  You know, I was interviewing.

• 39:03Tucker Carlson?

  What's, can you, for people don't know, what's, what's Neuralink?

• 39:06Speaker 02

  Neuralink, it's that chip that, you know, they're going to put in everybody's brain.

• 39:09Tucker Carlson?

  Hmm. That sounds awesome. Pretty sick for that.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  You getting one?

• 39:13Tucker Carlson?

  Am I getting one? I don't even like electricity.

• 39:16Speaker 02

  If you don't, then you'll fall behind. And.

• 39:19Tucker Carlson?

  I can't wait.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  You know, so, um, but I had, you know, I've been fascinated with that subject. I would love to interview somebody on it, but that's, that, that is on the inside over there. But, you know, and, and I think, yeah, you know, right? Like the, the premise right now is to, you know, get paralyzed people moving again and help the blind see. And that's all great. But, you know, I mean, when, when I found out that there was going to help the blind see, I was like, wait a second. So if you put this fucking chip in your head and they can help the blind see, then wouldn't they also be able to project?

• 40:00Speaker 02

  An entire false reality in your mind. And I'd interviewed a couple of doctors about it. I interviewed Andrew Huberman about it, which just got brought up and then talked to Ben Carson about it. Pretty much came to the same conclusion. And not only would they be able to manipulate, you know, vision, there would also be emotion, touch, smell, taste, everything into your head. So there you go, right there. I mean, we're on the cusp of a total false reality. Your entire life could be a false reality.

• 40:40Tucker Carlson?

  People are upset about real ID at the airport, facial recognition, giving others control over your brain neurologically. Um, that seems like, like a step farther.

• 40:54Tucker Carlson?

  You know what I mean? Like just biometrics.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 40:58Tucker Carlson?

  Do you know why they're pushing it?

• 41:00Speaker 02

  No.

• 41:00Tucker Carlson?

  I do.

• 41:01Speaker 02

  Why?

• 41:02Tucker Carlson?

  This is my understanding based on conversations with people who are involved in it. Um, because of AI. And the blind seed lame walk, it's all great. But the real concern is that AI is already at this point beyond human control. It's already at the point where it's lying to the people who created it, which suggests consciousness. And Neuralink and efforts like Neuralink are the people who are running it believe the only way for people to keep up with AI. Otherwise, we will be its slaves.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  See, I don't know. I've kind of changed my tune on that. Maybe you know more about it than I do. But I mean, we feed the data centers that power the AI, you know? And so, I mean, I think that, you know, some of the, I don't think that now that I understand it a little bit better, I don't think AI is going to develop its own consciousness and make decisions for us. I think that, you know, I think that the major fear would be if, for example, China hacked our databases and started feeding our AIs.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  False information that would be detrimental in a conflict or

• 42:15Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  Or propaganda or whatever, you know, but, but I mean, we've, we are the ones, humans are the ones that build and feed the information into the data centers and, and, and it just processes all that information.

• 42:31Tucker Carlson?

  So I raised this question with one of the people who, um, one of the big, biggest,

• 42:38Tucker Carlson?

  you know, forces behind AI. And I said, we'll just turn it off. You know, I mean, the human beings run power plants. And this person said, even now, we can't be sure that the machine is telling us the truth about where its power is coming from.

• 42:54Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 42:55Tucker Carlson?

  So, look, I, I, you know, I was a Russian history major, like I know nothing. I'm not pretending to have some special insight, but I did get, hear that directly from someone who's deeply involved.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  And even right now, I mean, well, you know, a lot of people that are deeply involved.

• 43:11Tucker Carlson?

  Not, not really, but I mean, you know, I travel.

• 43:13Speaker 02

  You know, with, with, with stuff like AI, I mean, it's still, it still goes to a human at the end, you know, to make that decision. And so.

• 43:23Tucker Carlson?

  Until you get a chip in your brain.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, good point. But, um, you know, so for example, um, you know, for, for, for military use, you know, the AI system would, would tell you what, what, what it is. So let's say it's a plane, you know, that pops up on a radar or something. The AI system will immediately identify it, tell you the capabilities, tell you your courses of action, tell you your different courses of action, tell you the outcomes of those different courses of action. And so you have all these options, you know, that would be some type of an analyst or strategist that would, you know, take hours, days, weeks, maybe months,

• 44:08Speaker 02

  you know, to come up with the information to present to whoever the decision maker is to make that actual decision. But with the power of AI, you know, and, and these new chips that are processing so fast. I mean, you get that information in seconds, minutes, hours versus hours, days, weeks, months. And so you can act on that, you know, a lot faster because all the information's been processed. Every possible outcome, the percentage of coming out on top. I mean, it's like a complete war game within seconds.

• 44:43Tucker Carlson?

  It sounds amazing, but the advantage is also the vulnerability. Now, I mean, if it's subverted because someone hacks your system and gives you the wrong coordinates or misidentifies, you know, allies as enemies, or you could see that going, you could see that being like the way you lose.

• 44:58Speaker 02

  Definitely, definitely.

• 44:59Tucker Carlson?

  So maybe the guy with the bolt action three oh eight with Ironsights wins.

• 45:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:05Tucker Carlson?

  Maybe the lowest technology force wins.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  I'm with you, but you know, I mean, you know, I mean, what, how do you know that a human source is not a double agent? I mean, it's, there's always going to be checks and balances, right? So, I mean, that's why we need, we need a better energy grid. We need to be able to power our fucking AI data center so that we can build more AIs. Because when AI wars happen, it'll be who has more AIs. And it'll be AIs going against AIs. So we need more AIs to combat. Somebody with, we need more AIs than our enemies, than our adversaries.

• 45:47Tucker Carlson?

  So we're only 40 minutes in and you've already said, you have said so far, you don't believe in anything. Technology is moving at such.

• 45:57Tucker Carlson?

  A pace that is hard for people even to like think about. It's moving so quickly, going places we can't yet imagine. And just to restate once more, nothing is real. Anyway. How, can you be very specific day to day about how you stay sane while thinking about stuff like that?

• 46:15Speaker 02

  I live in the woods and I don't talk to anybody but my team and my family. And I don't go out much, you know, I just. I don't.

• 46:26Tucker Carlson?

  Is that a happy life?

• 46:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. I would rather spend time with my kids and my wife than anybody on the planet. So. You know, in fact, even when we go out to dinners with people and I say, oh yeah, let's do a dinner. The day the dinner comes up, I'm like, why the fuck are we going to dinner? I should be spending time with the kids right now.

• 46:43Tucker Carlson?

  You speak for every American husband.

• 46:48Tucker Carlson?

  There's not one husband is like, what? Them? How do we do? Well, you said we could. Oh, oh.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  But I mean, even the energy thing that we just discussed, I mean, it's a lie. Like here we have this, this stupid debate going on about fucking renewables and, and, and fossil fuels. And it's like, I just told you the answer. It's right here. It's been here for years. Nobody's acting on it. Right? This is all fucking lie.

• 47:16Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  Like we, it's right here. It's right here. You know, and, but nobody wants to talk about it.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  So keep the same debate going.

• 47:26Tucker Carlson?

  But just to go back, cause I, you're not the only person, anyone who's made it this far in the conversation is probably in a similar place to where you are right now. Like, oh my gosh, this is just bewildering. Like what's real? This all does, it, it does seem like the acid trip that never ended. A lot of the news you read doesn't really have a lot of inherent meaning, but this does. Starting May 19th, the Hallow app is leading a consecration to Jesus through St. Joseph. You might be asking, why St. Joseph? Why now? Well, consider this. Joseph was the man God himself trusted with his own son. He wasn't a king or a warrior. He was a carpenter. He

• 48:05Tucker Carlson?

  was a quiet and steady man of unshakable faith. In an age that mocks humility, can you imagine the basis of wisdom and a relationship with God? It's time we looked to someone who embodied humility, not for applause, but for God. The series is not just about St. Joseph. It's about what happens when you follow his example, when you trade noise for silence, when you stop chasing relevance and start seeking holiness. And all of that begins with humility, which is really just perspective. You are not God. It's important to remind yourself of that. We do every day. So every week on Hallow, you'll hear reflections grounded in the gospels, pray powerful prayers like the litany of St. Joseph, and hear glory stories from throughout church history, not myths, not legends, actual intersections and power

• 48:49Tucker Carlson?

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• 49:11Speaker 00

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• 49:39Speaker 04

  Now for a quick message from Anthropic, the team behind Claude, the AI built for businesses. Customers count on their bank and banks count on their most important systems. Now those systems count on Claude and nine of the Fortune 10 companies use it for critical work. See why leading companies trust Claude at claude.ai/span.

• 50:02Tucker Carlson?

  What is your daily regimen? If you, if you don't mind, if it's not too personal, like what do you, you wake up and then you do what? Like, what are the steps that you take every day to remain grounded and sane and happy?

• 50:13Speaker 02

  I pray a lot.

• 50:15Tucker Carlson?

  When?

• 50:15Speaker 02

  I wake up, I pray all the time, you know, and I don't mean down on my knees. I just, I'm always, I'm always looking for signs. I'm always trying to make sure that, you know, I'm, I'm doing the right thing and that I'm not

• 50:31Speaker 02

  doing interviews just for numbers and shit like that. I mean, um, I look for good people, you know, with a good heart, especially when I do something like a life story, you know, and I'm, I'm looking for that guy that's grinding, that is not getting any traction with his business, who's served the country and put them up. But I mean, I

• 50:49Tucker Carlson?

  How tempting.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  I don't know. I mean, and then I also keep in the daily routine. I mean, I wake up, I got a one-year-old and a three-year-old and I wake up and I have about three cups of tea and I play around with my kids and. Spend a lot of time on the phone, unfortunately, because everything, you know, I'm getting all the incoming in. Um, that's coming in that morning. Then I go into the office and I meet with everybody and do an interview or I don't do an interview and then I just go back home to my kids. But, um, you know, as far as staying grounded, I mean, I just keep in mind like, hey, this, this all could go away in two seconds. I mean, who knows? Somebody could

• 51:29Speaker 02

  do a headpiece on me like they are right now. I told you about it. And it could all go away. Well, maybe a previous mistake that I made in life comes to light and they cancel me. And if they do, fuck it. I don't care. I'll hang out with my kids and my wife and live the rest of my life. Maybe I'll move up here, get a spot in the woods and never see anybody again. But I just don't take myself too seriously and I don't buy my own bullshit. And that's it, man.

• 51:58Tucker Carlson?

  When you say you don't put people on just for numbers, everyone who, you know, has a public facing job understands what you're saying, but for people who don't, will you describe that a little more fully?

• 52:10Speaker 02

  What do you mean?

• 52:14Tucker Carlson?

  You pass on stories, you said, or pass on interviews if the only upside is just that it gets huge numbers.

• 52:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Um, I'm just not interested in it, you know? I mean, if I see, I'll give you the example. I mean, I had, if I see somebody go on the circuit, that's like, I'm just not interested because then I'm just doing the same stuff that everybody else is doing.

• 52:41Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  And I've canceled interviews. I've had people that I've been one to have on for a long time and then I'll pull up YouTube and there they are on the Tucker Carlson show and I'm like, hey, cancel that interview. I don't want to.

• 52:54Tucker Carlson?

  I take your sloppy seconds with gratitude. I'm like, really? Sean Ryan interviewed him? Buck him!

• 53:00Speaker 02

  No, I think it's cool, but I just, I don't want to, I don't want to, I mean, you're a phenomenal interviewer and, and it's, and so it's, it's, well, what am I going to get out of this guy that Tucker didn't or Meghan didn't or?

• 53:12Tucker Carlson?

  No, I get it.

• 53:13Speaker 02

  Or, you know what I mean?

• 53:13Tucker Carlson?

  You don't want to be part of someone's publicity campaign either.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  Exactly. You know, and, and so I really, I, you know, I pride myself on being different and I've set my whole business up to be different and, um, as different as I can be. And um, so I just, I, I just feed my own curiosity and I look for people that I believe to be a positive influence on the world and a good uh role model for kids. I mean, I think the role model thing has gotten, it's just, it's horrible. I mean, who the hell do kids have to look up to now?

• 53:45Tucker Carlson?

  That's right.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  You know, and, and so that's, that's what I look for. Just good human beings with good values that are pumping some type of good in the world, whether that's fighting evil or spreading the word or whatever, you know, and uh going against the grain. And um, you know, I was, I was brought up to always root for the underdog.

• 54:03Tucker Carlson?

  Amen.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  And I do that.

• 54:05Tucker Carlson?

  It's the most American impulse you can have. We were the underdog. This country was the underdog, so.

• 54:11Speaker 02

  Yes, it was.

• 54:12Tucker Carlson?

  You don't ever want to be the overdog?

• 54:14Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 54:16Tucker Carlson?

  You don't want to be part of the machine. So how have you set your business up to be different?

• 54:20Speaker 02

  How have I, well, I mean, so when I got into podcasting, I mean, I didn't even know if I wanted to do it. I just um.

• 54:29Tucker Carlson?

  That was only five and a half years ago.

• 54:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was five and a half years ago in my attic and uh, and I got tired of teaching tactics and shooting and stuff like that. And so I tried a bunch of different things and, and I looked at podcasts as a whole and, and I saw, you know, every, back then, everybody had the purple curtain behind them and uh all their little stuff in the middle of the table that means nothing to them other than Joe. You know, he's got his stuff on the middle of the table. Now everybody's got their shit on the middle of the table and, and um, and um, so I, I, I set it up to be different. I wanted a relaxed environment.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  I didn't want any equipment in the shots. I wanted, I mean, you've been there. It's, it's, you melt into that room and it's very disarming. There's a lot of history there from people that share similar values and. On display for everybody to see.

• 55:29Tucker Carlson?

  You you like it. That's what I noticed about your studio. You made it a space that you're comfortable in.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 55:35Tucker Carlson?

  And it reflects what you think and it reflects the life that you've lived and the people that you love.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 55:40Tucker Carlson?

  It's not it's the opposite of generic.

• 55:43Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Thank you.

• 55:45Tucker Carlson?

  Well, no, it's I really it's very noticeable.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  But but I, you know, and and nobody really back then had good camera aesthetics. And so I'd saw David Letterman's my next guest on Netflix and I really liked the way it looked and with the camera movements and the the shots that they had and I said, I want to make that, but in my own way and on a on a $2,000 budget. And so I taught myself how to film, taught myself how to edit, taught my wife how to film, taught myself how to run sound. And and so I wanted an environment that looked really good on camera, that that disarmed people. I noticed, especially in where I come from in the SEAL teams, very egocentric

• 56:32Speaker 02

  community. And nobody can just make the interview about the guest. They have to make it about themselves and insert their own fucking experiences and it's all I killed Bin Laden. Oh, cool. I killed this person. And it's like, it's not about you, man. It's about them. And so so I would totally keep my own experiences out of the interview and I would compliment people instead of challenging them all the time. I'll come like, wow, that's well, like you just made it into Delta. That's like the premier special ops group in the entire world. I mean, how did that feel? That's amazing, you know, and when when you compliment somebody in a in a in a world that is extremely competitive, you

• 57:15Speaker 02

  know, it it's like, oh, shit, like, this guy's different. Thank you for letting me talk and actually complimenting me on my service. And then on top of that, we started I from episode.

• 57:27Tucker Carlson?

  How did where did that insight come from?

• 57:29Speaker 02

  Therapy. I did a lot of therapy when I when I quit contracting for for CIA.

• 57:35Tucker Carlson?

  I I always think of therapy as making people more self-involved, but that sounds like whoever you had in therapy sounds like was encouraging you to become less about yourself.

• 57:44Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. They don't talk.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  They don't talk. I mean, with with my therapist, it was I did all the talking and I would wind up working my own problems out in my head and she would just guide me, you know, and and so I took that model and brought it to my show and it just worked.

• 58:08Tucker Carlson?

  But it sounds like you concluded that humility focusing on other people, that was the key.

• 58:15Speaker 02

  I would say you're exactly right.

• 58:19Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know that that's an obvious conclusion. I don't. Most people don't seem to reach that conclusion.

• 58:23Speaker 02

  Really?

• 58:25Tucker Carlson?

  Judging from I was in the airport. I don't go to the airport very much, but I was there yesterday and listening to two people have a air quotes conversation where each one was just waiting for the other one to stop talking before talking at the person. It was like not one person ever said, really? How? Really? How interesting? And I feel like that's the experience that people have, not just watching podcasts, but like on, you know, day to day.

• 58:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:51Tucker Carlson?

  People don't listen.

• 58:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, you know, and I guess there is one other thing that I just I'm not. I'm not afraid to say that I don't know what we're talking about. And so you get a lot of people, you know, you get a lot of people, they they they fucking trap themselves, you know, and it's like, I told you about what I know about AI, and that's the extent of it. If we're gonna go deeper, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. So I'm not gonna pretend like I know I'm talking about to make it look like I'm the resident expert, because the resident experts are gonna call you completely full of shit. You don't know what you're talking about. And so I don't.

• 59:27Tucker Carlson?

  You always get caught, like pretending you don't have prostate cancer, like in the end, people find out.

• 59:33Speaker 02

  But but I mean, it's okay to not know everything.

• 59:37Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 59:37Speaker 02

  And and with so many people falling into the trap, they're like, oh, yeah, I have I have shit. They just asked me a question. I'm not an expert on. I have I have to come up with something. And I have like no shame and just going, yeah, I don't I don't even know what the fuck that word means that you just said. Could you please explain that? And and I think there's a lot of people like me that that that they don't understand maybe the vocabulary.

• 1:00:03Tucker Carlson?

  There aren't a lot of people who will admit it. Actually, there aren't that many people.

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  Everybody's everybody's a genius. Everybody's a tough guy.

• 1:00:10Tucker Carlson?

  Playing but playing a role that they know is fake.

• 1:00:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's sad. Sad to watch it.

• 1:00:17Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's it's a kind of slavery too. I mean, it's not you're not free when you're pretending to be something you're not.

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:23Tucker Carlson?

  So you showed me something last night, speaking of how you run your business differently than I thought was like the coolest thing I've ever seen. You're building a new studio. You totally lost control and just totally lost control, I will say, as someone who has a studio.

• 1:00:37Tucker Carlson?

  It's like the craziest thing. It's the coolest thing. Big piece of property, bass pond, shooting range, like beautifully designed. It's just super cool. But at the construction phase on the, well, you you you explain how you how you built it. It's different.

• 1:00:57Speaker 02

  Oh, so I mean, like I was saying last night, I'm really, I'm really big on company culture. And like I had mentioned earlier, you know, my my people that work for me and with me are are like a second family to me and I take on their burdens and I help them through life. And I want to give them the best experience that I can too. I mean, they work their asses off.

• 1:01:21Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:01:22Speaker 02

  And and so I want them to be proud of where they work and I want them to enjoy being at work. And so there's there's a wellness center. There's everybody. I mean, there's it's you gotta see it, man. When it's done, it's all like super top of the line, very, very nice. And, you know, they'll be able to hunt out there. They'll be able to fish out there. They'll be able to shoot out there. They'll be able to work out out there. They'll be able to I want them to bring their families in for lunch. Like, I want that environment so that, you know, one, that they're they're proud of where they work. They want to work there and they're the best paid people in the business. I don't have a big team, but I have a fucking amazing team.

• 1:02:04Tucker Carlson?

  You want them to bring their families for lunch?

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  Hell, yeah, man.

• 1:02:08Tucker Carlson?

  That's the coolest.

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And and if they want to, you know, and and and, you know, on top of just.

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  Giving, you know, and creating like that environment, uh, you know, it, I mean, this is a cutthroat business, unfortunately, and see people jumping from camp to camp. I've never lost somebody, you know, I've never lost somebody that, that said, hey, fuck it, I'm going to Tucker's. Hey, I'm going to the Daily Wire. Hey, I'm going here. I'm going there. They, they don't want to be anywhere but here.

• 1:02:42Tucker Carlson?

  You haven't lost anyone to the Daily Wire?

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  I haven't lost anybody to anything.

• 1:02:49Tucker Carlson?

  I'm such a

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  We get a lot of people from the Daily Wire wanting to work here, though.

• 1:02:56Tucker Carlson?

  You put bibles under the foundation?

• 1:02:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, we put, we put, so yeah, on top of that, my whole team is really into scripture and we're all very like-minded and, and, um, you know, I'd mentioned before, I feel like I'm just a conduit and, uh, so, and I do, I live a lot of my life in paranoia at times and so he is the only protection. So yeah, we put a bible in every corner of the foundation. We wrote scripture on every single exterior stud in that building and, um, to

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  for protection.

• 1:03:39Tucker Carlson?

  I saw, uh, Jeremy, your producer, had a picture he showed me last night of it's a shot down the wall and the studs are still visible and each one has like, I read three from Ephesians, but like long quotes from the New Testament.

• 1:03:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, everybody on the team had a, had a part in that.

• 1:03:58Tucker Carlson?

  Who thought of that?

• 1:04:00Speaker 02

  Me.

• 1:04:01Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 1:04:03Speaker 02

  I went to, uh, a party once and, uh, the people at the party who hosted the party showed me their house and told me that they had done that. And I was like, they, that they had written scripture on every stud. And I was like, oh man, that is awesome. I'm doing that. I'm doing everything, everything that we build from now on will, will have that.

• 1:04:26Tucker Carlson?

  That is the coolest. So you say you feel like a conduit. How do you receive instructions?

• 1:04:35Speaker 02

  God. I think God speaks to you through God. And um. And I think the signs are always there, but a lot of us are too busy. And wrapped up in our own shit to see them. And um. So, for example, like the George Esquio interview was, I was nervous about that one. You know, because I dug into the, I dug into it and I was, I was like, like, I don't, you know. If this guy is a Russian asset, I don't know if this is a good idea. I don't want to be on the wrong team here. Uh, I don't want to fall victim to, you know, propagandizing my show, not even realizing it.

• 1:05:17Speaker 02

  And the whole, the whole journey there, I was worried about it and um. Without going into it, I mean, my journey to Christ was through signs uh that slapped me right in the face and 444 is a big number to me and. And um, and I.

• 1:05:33Tucker Carlson?

  444?

• 1:05:34Speaker 02

  444 is a huge number to me. And um.

• 1:05:37Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 1:05:38Speaker 02

  Well, so.

• 1:05:42Speaker 02

  I had this uh. Experience in Sedona uh where I came to Christ. And three things happened to me uh all within very profound things in about 15 minutes. The last day I was there. And when I got home, I had called um uh somewhat of a spiritual mentor to me. His name's Eddie Penny. And um. He had started talking about, I called him at midnight when I got back and I was like, hey. This happened to me. I don't know what this means. But. I think I need to uh lean into Jesus a little bit here, and that's not something I've done in probably the past 20 years. And. So he started going on about this stuff with.

• 1:06:27Speaker 02

  With demonic attacks now that I've shown a side and I'm, and he goes, he goes, man, a lot of people have been praying for this to happen. And I'm like. Well, what do you mean? Like, what? Why? Who is, what, what, what, what the hell is happening? And um then he started talking about guardian angels and all this other stuff. And I had a meeting scheduled at noon with my IT guy who is a devout Catholic. And I call him up and I think we're going to be talking about, I don't know, website stuff and IT crap. And he has the exact same conversation with me, not even knowing that I'd had this experience yet.

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  Doesn't know Eddie. I mean, he is a IT guy and Eddie is a former development group guy. There's no connection, has the exact same conversation, starts talking about.

• 1:07:22Tucker Carlson?

  For those, can you just define the, a former what group guy?

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  Uh, Team Six.

• 1:07:26Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  And, um, and, um, and ever since I had Eddie on and he shared his testimony was my, I released an episode every Christmas. That's when I kicked the show off was Christmas. And I was like, man, this testimony is like so awesome. I think this should be the Christmas episode. So every single person that came on the show for probably the next year and a half at least, had brought up God or the Bible or Christ. And it was, it was like a turning point, uh, in my podcast that just, and I didn't like, I don't push Christianity on people. I don't, you know, it, it would just organically come up in the conversation.

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  And, um, and so I always thought like, maybe God's like working through my show or something. I don't know. But anyway, so after this, after all this stuff happened in Sedona, which was mind blowing to me. I had this conversation with Adam.

• 1:08:25Tucker Carlson?

  Your IT guy?

• 1:08:26Speaker 02

  Yes. And he's, he's talking about guardian angels. And I go home for a late lunch that day with my wife and kids and I'm driving back, uh, to the studio and I look at the clock and it's 4:44. I look at the gas thing and it says 444 miles left to empty. And this is, and, and, uh, it's four hours and 44 minutes after my conversation with my IT guy. So I'm, I'm driving and I call up, uh, my social media manager. I'm like, hey, look up 4:44. I want to know what it means. Something just happened. And get this shit.

• 1:09:06Tucker Carlson?

  I love how open you are to this.

• 1:09:08Speaker 02

  He looks it up and you know what it is?

• 1:09:11Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  It means your guardian angels want to know that they're watching over you.

• 1:09:19Speaker 02

  Right after we just had a discussion, four hours and forty-four minutes prior about guardian angels.

• 1:09:26Tucker Carlson?

  That's wild.

• 1:09:28Speaker 02

  And so then I was like, okay, like, that's, that's a sign. And, uh, cause I told you too, I live in them. At that time, I had released the Brian Montgomery interview about sex trafficking, which is a whole nother debacle that the FBI started getting involved in. And, um, and I had interviewed Tyler Andrew Vargas, which was the, the young Marine who survived the Abbey Gate bombing. He lost his leg and his arm. And nobody would talk to him because it made the Biden administration look so bad. We were fighting YouTube about it. And, um, he had all this real footage from his camera about the guy that blew up the gate

• 1:10:10Speaker 02

  that they should have killed. And anyways, told me that, that, um, that Good Morning America had interviewed him for seven hours and only released five seconds of the interview. Here's another God thing, man. So I'm having breakfast. My team really wanted to get Tyler on. And I was like, every media outlet in the world is probably trying to talk to this guy right now because he's the only living eyewitness. And I'm like, we're never gonna get him. I'll probably wind up on Tucker or Rogan or, you know, and, and, um, I was like, fine, I'll shoot him a message on Instagram. So I shoot him a message immediately. He's

• 1:10:48Speaker 02

  like, yep, I'm in, let's do it. I had breakfast with him before the interview. And at breakfast, he's sitting there with his fiancee and he goes, man, he started tearing up. And he goes, man, I have interviewed with so many mainstream media outlets and they're all full of shit and nobody will tell the truth and nobody will release like what I tell them. Congress didn't pay attention when I testified in front of them. And he goes, I literally looked at my fiancee and he's like, man, I just wish the Sean Ryan guy would just reach out. And he goes, I pulled my phone up and you had just messaged me.

• 1:11:30Speaker 02

  It was the first thing I saw. And he goes, there it was. Like, it was like, God answered me like right there in that moment. And I was like, holy shit, like. That's not a coincidence. There are no coincidences. I don't believe in coincidences anymore, but. But so I get these like signs like all the time where if I feel like I should be, if I'm questioning something. He'll throw out a sign and like, like, like the George Esquio interview. Me and Jeremy are sitting at the airport and I'm telling him like. I don't know about this. It's the first time I had ever brought somebody to do an Overwatch for me. Because I was nervous, you know, it's like, oh, I don't know if we should be doing this. We're.

• 1:12:16Speaker 02

  Fucking with NATO. We should probably bring a security guy.

• 1:12:19Tucker Carlson?

  You know, they're just peacekeepers.

• 1:12:22Speaker 02

  Right. That's why they're building the.

• 1:12:24Tucker Carlson?

  Come on, relax, relax, Sean.

• 1:12:27Speaker 02

  They're on our side. Base in Europe and.

• 1:12:30Tucker Carlson?

  The training army.

• 1:12:31Speaker 02

  But anyways, I had.

• 1:12:35Speaker 02

  Sometimes I just tweet out something that pops in my head, right? So I tweeted out, the truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Set it free and it'll defend itself. I tweeted that out.

• 1:12:46Tucker Carlson?

  I like that.

• 1:12:47Speaker 02

  And I had this debacle going on in my head, like, should I be doing this? Like, am I doing this for the right reason? Is this guy, does he need to be heard? Or is he just some type of a Russian show? Walk out of the lounge. This is all, I don't know, five minutes and this woman. Comes around the corner and she has this huge. Lion head. On her shirt, like this big sequence glittery lion head. And that's what was in my head and what I had just. Tweeted out. And to me, I mean, probably everybody will call me crazy, but to me, I'm like. That's the sign that I needed to see, like I just.

• 1:13:31Speaker 02

  articulated this and you you don't see too many people running around the airport with a big lion head on their shirt like a massive lion head.

• 1:13:40Tucker Carlson?

  My reaction is not that you're crazy. My reaction is I need to get off my phone. Sufficient to see signs that are all around me.

• 1:13:47Speaker 02

  They're everywhere.

• 1:13:48Tucker Carlson?

  I agree with you completely and I feel like the phone is an instrument of distraction. Um, and evil really, though I, you know, I couldn't live without it. I need it for my job. It allows me to live where I want and or talk to my wife and children and all that. There are upsides, but in general, I feel like I miss everything. If a sign happened, it would, it would really have to come by text message or I wouldn't see it.

• 1:14:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I hope you do that.

• 1:14:13Tucker Carlson?

  But yeah, I've been thinking about it a lot. Are you self consciously not on your phone sometimes?

• 1:14:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:21Tucker Carlson?

  What's your phone regimen?

• 1:14:23Speaker 02

  Uh, 6pm it goes on airplane mode.

• 1:14:26Tucker Carlson?

  6pm?

• 1:14:27Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:14:29Tucker Carlson?

  You're not on your phone after 6pm?

• 1:14:30Speaker 02

  Other than, other than if somebody on my team texts, texts me that's and they would text for an emergency, it I just, it's not airplane mode. It's like, I don't know, whatever.

• 1:14:44Tucker Carlson?

  Like this, whatever. I don't know what it is either, but it screens out.

• 1:14:46Speaker 02

  Nothing comes to me. So except, except my assistant, Jeremy and, and family. And so I don't mess around on the phone.

• 1:14:56Tucker Carlson?

  After 6pm?

• 1:14:57Speaker 02

  6pm, man.

• 1:15:00Tucker Carlson?

  It's like 1985 life.

• 1:15:02Speaker 02

  I mean, you know, some, yeah, there, there are, you know, sometimes I'm, sometimes it happens, you know, if I'm working late or something and I'm, I'm always working, but I mean, I don't like, I don't mess around on social media or, I mean, you know, half the texts I get are just people asking for favors anyways. So.

• 1:15:23Tucker Carlson?

  Only half?

• 1:15:24Speaker 02

  Probably more.

• 1:15:26Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, more.

• 1:15:30Speaker 02

  All my friends I haven't talked to in

• 1:15:33Tucker Carlson?

  Five and a half years is a very short period of time to become as successful as you have.

• 1:15:39Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:15:40Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I'm not complimenting you. I'm saying I'm surprised you're not crazier because that's a big change. That's a big, big change in a short period of time.

• 1:15:50Tucker Carlson?

  Don't you think? Well, I think.

• 1:15:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's been a huge change, but um, but you know, I mean, it's just

• 1:15:59Speaker 02

  we're all just humans and

• 1:16:04Speaker 02

  some people have a, I mean, like I said, man, I just don't take myself too seriously and, and none of this shit really gets to me. I, it could all be taken away at a moment's notice and I'm ready to give it back and I'm just, alls I'm doing is trying to do good, you know, and so

• 1:16:24Speaker 02

  when I'm, I mean, when I meet people like you or some of the other people that have been on the show, I mean, it, there is an aspect like, I can't believe I'm like having fucking dinner with Tucker right now. This is so weird. Like people would kill to do this, but in the end, I mean, you're just a, you're just like me, man. Eat, sleep, shit. That's it. And I, I take that approach with everybody I meet. There's nothing, sorry Tucker, I love you, but.

• 1:16:53Tucker Carlson?

  No, trust me, you couldn't be, yeah, I, I've always thought it's very easy to, to get perspective on your life if you can see yourself kinda clearly. It's very hard to mistake yourself for Jesus if you're like honest. Do you know what I mean?

• 1:17:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:17:11Tucker Carlson?

  And I, I really look down on people who have delusions.

• 1:17:13Speaker 02

  We're just people, man.

• 1:17:14Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, that's for sure.

• 1:17:16Speaker 02

  It's sad to watch power get to people's heads. It's really a shame.

• 1:17:21Tucker Carlson?

  So what steps do you take to keep yourself pure of heart?

• 1:17:28Tucker Carlson?

  I notice you haven't been in DC like every week.

• 1:17:31Speaker 02

  I I hate DC.

• 1:17:35Tucker Carlson?

  That's where all the power is.

• 1:17:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I'm not interested in power.

• 1:17:39Tucker Carlson?

  Don't you want to rush toward it like a bug light?

• 1:17:42Speaker 02

  I've been asked to to to run for something, but I just I just have no interest in it.

• 1:17:49Tucker Carlson?

  What are your goals at this point?

• 1:17:53Speaker 02

  My goals are to

• 1:17:58Speaker 02

  whenever I exit this, uh, I want my family to be set for generations. I want my team to be set for generations. I want to continue to help them and and I just I just want to show that

• 1:18:17Speaker 02

  there's a lot of us out there that think on the same page regardless of what the media says. And I think I am a this sounds weird talking about myself like this, but I think I am, for whatever reason, I think I am just the average uneducated, no college degree guy in the country that can talk to people.

• 1:18:42Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, you don't have a college degree?

• 1:18:44Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:18:44Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I wish I'd known that before I set up this interview.

• 1:18:47Speaker 02

  But um, I don't, wow, wow. I'm just a, I'm just a average guy that that has a hard time understanding stuff and I don't let my ego get in the way. I don't pretend like I know shit that I don't know. And if I don't understand, then I fucking ask questions. And it helps everybody that watches my show understand something because it's dumbed down to a level that the majority of America can digest and comprehend.

• 1:19:17Tucker Carlson?

  You listen carefully. Having gone on your show, I think that's the key. You listen very carefully. Most people do not do that. So you don't go to DC because you think it's disgusting? You think power corrupts? It doesn't just enhance?

• 1:19:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely. I mean, I, you know, it's also like.

• 1:19:43Speaker 02

  None of these people will be talking to me if I didn't have a show.

• 1:19:47Tucker Carlson?

  Obviously.

• 1:19:49Speaker 02

  So it's, it's, it's like, I don't know, man. I just, I don't like it.

• 1:19:56Tucker Carlson?

  I was amazed, amazed to find out, I don't know if it's public, but you came very close to booking Kamala Harris.

• 1:20:02Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:20:03Tucker Carlson?

  How'd that come about?

• 1:20:05Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I, who was the first candidate? I think it was either DeSantis. I think, no, DeSantis wasn't in studio. And, um, it's the only Zoom interview I've ever done.

• 1:20:18Tucker Carlson?

  What'd you think of him?

• 1:20:20Speaker 02

  Uh, I mean, as far as like a person, I didn't, it was very, it was like 15 minutes, man. So I don't, I don't have a gauge. I like a lot of the stuff that he's done down in Florida.

• 1:20:32Tucker Carlson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:20:32Speaker 02

  Pretty much all of it. And, um, but that I know of, I don't know everything, but, um, but I, I had said at the beginning, I'll interview any presidential candidate. I don't care what side they're on. I'm not going to blast you, but I think it's important that people know who that person is, whether we talk about politics or not. Like with RFK, we talked about his heroin addiction and all that kind of stuff. And, and, uh, you know, and it, it gives you a little more background on what, what, how they grew up, what their values are as a person, not just some soundbite bullshit, you know, that's fed to them. And, um, and so I wanted to interview people on the other side of the fence too.

• 1:21:16Speaker 02

  And, um, and I really wanted Kamala to come on. And, uh, so.

• 1:21:22Tucker Carlson?

  I think it's Kamala.

• 1:21:24Speaker 02

  Whatever. And, uh, it's irrelevant at this point.

• 1:21:27Tucker Carlson?

  It's racist. You just call it Kamala.

• 1:21:29Speaker 02

  But, um. But so we got in touch with her camp. We didn't hear anything. We did a couple of press releases and to maybe pressure her into it a little bit. And she took it seriously and and she watched. I was told she watched. She spent a night going through particular interviews and liked the way that I interviewed and liked my style and she wanted to do it. And they asked, you know, what do I want to talk about? And I said, well, I think we should definitely talk about the Afghan withdrawal and the Taliban funding. I'm pretty much initiated that entire conversation that developed into what it is.

• 1:22:14Speaker 02

  And me and my guests and they didn't want to talk about that. I said, well, it's it's gonna look bad on me if I don't talk about that because I've been hammering this damn thing for a year now. Over a year, I think. And but I was like, all right, well, what do you want to talk about? Do you want to talk about national security? They're like, what do you think you disagree on her the most on? Told them and

• 1:22:42Tucker Carlson?

  What was it?

• 1:22:43Speaker 02

  The the gender stuff with kids. That was my biggest thing, you know, and I don't I don't really care about adults, you know, to do it. But you can't give a kid the keys to do that, you know, at that age. And eight years old, I mean, eight years old was at Washington. That's like the state will come in and take your kid from you if you

• 1:23:10Speaker 02

  if you don't do it, if they want to. I mean, what is

• 1:23:14Speaker 02

  why even have parents at that point? Sure, they don't want us to have parents, but but anyways, I said that and and, you know, they were like, it got to the point where I just said, look, I don't even care. I was like, how about you just give me the outline? And we'll do it that way. I don't care. Like, I know how to do an interview and

• 1:23:39Speaker 02

  I'll make it work and I'll find my

• 1:23:44Speaker 02

  My groove and whatever you give me, I'm confident in my abilities and, and they were gonna do it. And then, um, and then the Brett Baer interview came out with her and it just fell off the map. They would just quit talking to us. So I don't know, you know?

• 1:24:02Tucker Carlson?

  Cause Brett asked her like a single question. She didn't feel like answering.

• 1:24:05Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't know. I mean, I don't know what it was.

• 1:24:07Tucker Carlson?

  How do you think it would have gone?

• 1:24:10Speaker 02

  I think it would have gone.

• 1:24:14Speaker 02

  I think it would have gone no matter what they handed me for the outline or, or if I created my own outline that the questions would have been, um, blaming Trump for everything, even if it has, even if it was nothing to do with the question. I think it would have just been Trump did this, Trump did that. What about Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, you know, and, and I don't think I would have gotten any of her views or solutions or initiatives or anything. I think it would all been just flipped around and pointed back at Trump.

• 1:24:50Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think it's possible there would have been like a spark of warmth between the two of you?

• 1:24:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:56Speaker 02

  I do.

• 1:24:57Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 1:24:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. Because I mean, I, I, no matter who it is, I'm going to treat the guest with respect and, um, and I think that's, I just, you know, in, you know, on top of that, I mean, do I like her? Do I agree with anything that she did? No, but I also know that there's an aspect of media that I'm probably not getting the full picture and so I want to hear them out.

• 1:25:26Tucker Carlson?

  Good for you.

• 1:25:28Speaker 02

  But it was never going to be like a gotcha or a combative interview, you know, I wouldn't have done that. I've never done that. I'll challenge people on stuff, but I'm not going to get into some type of a bickering contest and, you know?

• 1:25:42Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 1:25:43Speaker 02

  Because I just, I'm, that's just not who I am.

• 1:25:47Tucker Carlson?

  You had a pretty ferocious job before. We had enough of that?

• 1:25:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:56Tucker Carlson?

  Interesting.

• 1:25:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:58Tucker Carlson?

  Is there anyone you wouldn't interview?

• 1:26:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's people I wouldn't interview. I don't interview people that, I mean, kind of said it earlier, you know, I don't interview people that are on the circuit. I don't really give a shit about your new book that's coming out. I don't care. Um, there's plenty of other podcasts that can do that. I just, what, you know, what I look for, other than that, because that's different, those aren't my values. Um, that we, we obviously differ on probably just about everything. But I just, I just look for good people that are doing something in the world that aren't getting recognition, aren't getting traction, and I think would be a good role model.

• 1:26:44Speaker 02

  And that's, that's who I bring on the show. And, and that's, that's one of the things I'm good at is being able to take somebody who nobody's ever heard of, ever, and people tune in. People will tune in because it's fresh material. It's good people doing good things. And, and they finally get the exposure that they needed to actually get some type of traction.

• 1:27:10Tucker Carlson?

  And what you interviewed Trump for hours, I think, how long was that?

• 1:27:14Speaker 02

  Well, one hour.

• 1:27:15Tucker Carlson?

  One hour.

• 1:27:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, a little over was he was like, I don't know, 70 minutes or something.

• 1:27:19Tucker Carlson?

  What'd you think of him?

• 1:27:21Speaker 02

  I really liked him. I really liked, I did wasn't expecting him to be as personal as he was, you know, and me, my, he met everybody on my team and made it a point to, it wasn't like shaking somebody's hand and talking to his assistant or, or, you know, it was direct eye contact, wanted to meet the entire team. There was three NFL stars in there that came in to meet him. And as soon as I walked in the room, he like, didn't care about him, came right over, introduced himself. I mean, he was very personable. And then after the interview, sat down in a room and talked with us. And it was really, I was happy. And I was more happy

• 1:28:05Speaker 02

  that he treated my team with respect. And, uh, cause you know, you see a lot of people that are like, oh, you're just the fucking help. And it's like, no, that's like, who makes the whole thing. So, you know, and, um, and, uh, so I really appreciated that, you know, it was, you never really know what you're gonna get with, with.

• 1:28:25Tucker Carlson?

  How do you think the administration's going so far?

• 1:28:35Tucker Carlson?

  How about this?

• 1:28:37Speaker 02

  I think there's some really, look.

• 1:28:38Tucker Carlson?

  What do you like, what don't you like?

• 1:28:40Speaker 02

  I like that they got rid of the DEI stuff.

• 1:28:42Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:42Speaker 02

  I think that was low hanging fruit. I think that, you know, they fixed it really quick. I don't think we need to harp on it anymore and let's move on. And, um, and, you know, I just interviewed Tom Homan. What he's done with the border seems really impressive to me.

• 1:29:00Speaker 02

  So I'm really happy about those things. I'm not happy that the Epstein files have not come to fruition yet.

• 1:29:08Tucker Carlson?

  I'm sure they're coming out any day now, wouldn't you think?

• 1:29:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. I won't hold my breath, but, um, but, uh, I think that

• 1:29:23Speaker 02

  I think we still need a lot of work.

• 1:29:26Speaker 02

  A lot of work and, um, I am

• 1:29:32Speaker 02

  losing hope.

• 1:29:35Tucker Carlson?

  Why? What specifically makes you feel hopeless?

• 1:29:41Speaker 02

  Ah, man, I mean,

• 1:29:46Speaker 02

  who's controlling our country and the influences? And why haven't we seen these things? And it makes me skeptical, you know, and, and

• 1:29:59Speaker 02

  I don't hear.

• 1:30:02Speaker 02

  And, you know, some of this is, I may just not know, you know? Cause I don't, like I mentioned, I don't pretend to know everything that's going on. And I don't put the time in that I would need to, to, to figure it all out. But, you know, there's things like the energy grid. And it's like, man, like we really need to fucking do something with our grid. Like yesterday and

• 1:30:24Tucker Carlson?

  But is that more important than bombing Iran?

• 1:30:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is. And um, yeah, you know, that that stuff and and you know, I get. I mean, I don't know. I want to know like what the real motivations are and and um, I love everything he says and the majority of everything that he says, but I, you know, I'd like to see the Ukraine Russia thing finally come to an end and and I like what they've done with Doge. I think that maybe they maybe they've cut a little bit more than they need to. Um, but you know, there's always human error with everything. But, you know, and look, I'm just fuck it. I'm

• 1:31:16Speaker 02

  just I'm gonna get blasted for this. But, you know, I mean, what I see all these negotiations going on in the Middle East and then I don't know when these buildings were approved or when these deals got done. But then I also see like, oh, there's a brand new hotel going up in Dubai or Abu Dhabi and another one going up and and um, um, Doha, I think. And I'm like, did these like, just get done also with the deals that just happened over there? Or was this earlier? I don't you would probably know.

• 1:31:46Tucker Carlson?

  No, I don't know.

• 1:31:47Speaker 02

  You don't?

• 1:31:48Tucker Carlson?

  I've not made $1 in the Middle East, not one.

• 1:31:50Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I mean,

• 1:31:53Speaker 02

  you're a lot more on the inside than I am.

• 1:31:55Tucker Carlson?

  No, no, no, I'm just I'm just a visitor and a traveler and watcher, but I don't, you know, there's.

• 1:32:01Speaker 02

  That stuff kind of worries me, you know, it's.

• 1:32:03Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it seems like corruption, yeah.

• 1:32:06Speaker 02

  But, but um, and but you know, you know, like bothers me more than any of this shit is that people have just lost the ability to critical thinking. And if you do say something about the tariffs, or um, is it Greenland or Iceland? I can't even remember or whatever.

• 1:32:26Tucker Carlson?

  The big one.

• 1:32:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you do, if you throw any criticism towards any and not just not just Trump, but any anybody that is in a position of power. I mean, the US has just become so tribal now. And it's it's you cannot criticize or or or

• 1:32:47Speaker 02

  give any constructive criticism to what's happening without getting blasted. And sad, it's like, man, like you guys have.

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  100% lost all critical thinking skills. Like, you're not fucking thinking on your own. And you are given the values that you align with. You're no longer going off the way you were raised or what's true to you as a person. I think a lot of people don't even fucking know what that is anymore. And they're just told. They're told they align with a tribe. Whatever that tribe says they're gonna do, they're gonna say, they're gonna follow. And that's sad. And I think that that could resemble the beginning of the end.

• 1:33:34Tucker Carlson?

  I agree with every word. And I can't help but note, because I was there for it. At the beginning of the internet, we were told that all of this information would make us better informed and would increase our critical thinking abilities and that people wouldn't have to follow the propaganda because they would have all the information. And the opposite has turned out to be true. People seem much easier to control than ever before.

• 1:34:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:01Tucker Carlson?

  And that makes me sad. So, back to the heaviest thing I think you've said, which is that you don't believe that anything's real. And again, I think most people can understand where you're coming from when you say that. One of the effects of that is to make everyone, like, really, really paranoid. When it turns out that, you know, most of the things derided as conspiracy theories are real, like, clearly, the explanation for 9/11 is silly. Clearly, you know, and we're never gonna find out any of this stuff. And so, I think a reasonable person concludes like, "Man, there's a lot going on I don't get. There's a lot of secret stuff. There are a lot of actual conspiracies."

• 1:34:40Speaker 02

  It's everything, though. Like, I gave, you know, I'm not, I take a minute to process. And so, when you're talking about, oh, you know, what's fake? And I brought up, like, COVID and something else that everybody already knows. Right, but or at least most people already know, but I mean, when you look at the elections, you know, in not just the US, you know, but let's look elsewhere. Let's look at Romania and what happened there. And they just, they just yanked this guy. Yep, you're done. Murray Le Pen. I mean, we were close to interviewing her.

• 1:35:11Tucker Carlson?

  Me too. In fact, I think we were in Paris at the same time.

• 1:35:14Speaker 02

  We were. And, um, and I mean, when you see that, it's just like, holy shit. Like, this is spreading. Or maybe it's not spreading. Maybe it's just always been like this. I don't know. But, you know, so obviously those were, obviously those elections are phony, you know, and, and the EU is getting involved and France is getting involved and Romania is getting involved. And it's like, holy shit, man, like, everything seems to be engineered. The guy in Bolsonaro in, in Brazil, another example, you know, and it's, it's, it's the ministry of truth. I don't even know if that's still a thing, but it's like the, the what? The

• 1:35:56Speaker 02

  minister, the ministry of truth? Are you fucking kidding me?

• 1:36:00Tucker Carlson?

  The 2020 election. I mean, I was kind of skeptical. I was there right in the middle of it. And I thought, well, you know, if there's evidence it was stolen, I'll, I'll believe it, of course, but I don't see any evidence or enough evidence to say that conclusively. And then the last five years, traveling around, seeing other elections, watching our country more carefully. It's like, that was totally fake. I can say that, I think with confidence now. But, but here's my point. Um, you, who I do think are one of the rare people, just like, committed to saying what you think is true, committed to remaining independent, right or wrong, like, you don't want to be influenced, you want to reach your own conclusions. And you want to be awake enough to see signs from God. And I admire all of that. But now

• 1:36:44Tucker Carlson?

  you are supposedly part of the conspiracy.

• 1:36:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:49Tucker Carlson?

  Because you were CIA contractor. So, like, what does that mean to be a CIA contractor? How did you get that gig? What did it entail? Are you still in touch with headquarters trying to subvert democracy?

• 1:37:05Speaker 02

  I wasn't involved in any of those operations. No, I mean, look, I mean, the road, I left the SEAL teams to start business and failed miserably.

• 1:37:14Tucker Carlson?

  What kind of business?

• 1:37:15Speaker 02

  I wanted to do, funny, I actually read Donald Trump's book in Guantanamo Bay when we were doing some stuff in Haiti back in 2004. And it was his book, How to Get, How to Get Rich.

• 1:37:28Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, you read Donald Trump's book in Guantanamo Bay?

• 1:37:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, in 2004. And I think, no, it was, whatever, somewhere around there. And I read that book and I hadn't, I mean, I was on like a mini deployment. We were, we were in Panama doing some stuff with the Panamanian Special Ops guys. Then the Haiti thing popped off that when we yanked Aristide out of there. And, and, and then we were going on the real deployment. And so before I even really deployed in the SEAL teams, I decided, this isn't all it's cracked up to be, at least for me. And so I'm just gonna do my time here.

• 1:38:12Tucker Carlson?

  What was disappointing about it?

• 1:38:15Speaker 02

  There wasn't enough combat.

• 1:38:20Tucker Carlson?

  Really? You wind up on a SEAL team in the middle of two wars and there wasn't enough combat for you?

• 1:38:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:29Tucker Carlson?

  Okay.

• 1:38:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. I didn't see near as much as a lot of guys. I saw a decent amount, but, but, you know, I went in to like do that job and I wanted to do it all the time. And I was not doing it all the time. And, and so I left. But,

• 1:38:56Tucker Carlson?

  You've quite a metabolism.

• 1:38:58Speaker 02

  But,

• 1:38:59Tucker Carlson?

  You wind up on the SEAL teams and you're like, kind of bored.

• 1:39:05Speaker 02

  But uh, it just, it wasn't, it just wasn't what I thought it was gonna be. And um, and then I had an opportunity to scream, not saying I would have made it. Um, not saying I wouldn't have, but I had an opportunity, everybody, I don't mean I had the opportunity. Everybody gets the opportunity to scream for six, for team six, if they want it. And um, I just, I was, I was like, well, that's, you know, that's the next level. But it's another five year commitment if I do it. And what if it's the same shit that I have here with just a bigger budget with more cool toys?

• 1:39:44Speaker 02

  And um, so I decided to, I, I, I decided, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get out and be the next Donald Trump. And uh, businessman. And um, got out, started a small real estate thing, failed horribly.

• 1:40:01Tucker Carlson?

  Where was it?

• 1:40:02Speaker 02

  St. Louis, Missouri. And um,

• 1:40:05Tucker Carlson?

  You went to do real estate in St. Louis?

• 1:40:06Speaker 02

  Well, my family's from there, so.

• 1:40:08Tucker Carlson?

  What, South Florida wasn't available at the time or something?

• 1:40:11Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:40:13Speaker 02

  Just went home and um,

• 1:40:15Tucker Carlson?

  Just in time for Ferguson.

• 1:40:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was too. I actually got a great picture of me with Ferguson with the Molotov cocktail, but uh, as a joke, after it happened. But um, but uh, anyways, and so then uh, my dad and I were gonna actually start a Jimmy John's franchise. And uh, I didn't grow up with money. And uh, we needed some, so I said, hey, I said I would never do this, but overseas contracting is a big thing and it's paying pretty good. So how about if I just do that? I'll get the money that we need to start it and then I'll quit and we'll start that venture.

• 1:40:57Tucker Carlson?

  You went overseas as a contractor to pay for a Jimmy John's franchise?

• 1:41:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:03Tucker Carlson?

  Amazing.

• 1:41:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then 2008 hit.

• 1:41:06Tucker Carlson?

  Do you know Jimmy John, by the way?

• 1:41:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, I met him uh, recently, great guy. I love talking to him.

• 1:41:13Tucker Carlson?

  Good dude, yes. At the elk party, I think you met him, actually.

• 1:41:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And uh, we've hung out a couple of times. I, I really like that guy.

• 1:41:21Tucker Carlson?

  Did you tell him that you went, you became a military contractor so you could pay for one of his franchises?

• 1:41:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:30Speaker 02

  But uh, but that didn't happen and

• 1:41:33Tucker Carlson?

  Where did you go?

• 1:41:35Speaker 02

  Where, what do you mean?

• 1:41:36Tucker Carlson?

  Your first, when you first left to do overseas

• 1:41:38Speaker 02

  So where I first went, I did a, uh, cause I didn't, I didn't, I didn't understand exactly how contract contractors, I, I didn't know the game.

• 1:41:48Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:48Speaker 02

  And so there are different tiers of contracting and um, they have uh, they take your background and there's all these different, you know, there's the DEA contract, there's the ATF contract, or not ATF, excuse me, uh, there's the agency, the NSA, the State Department, um, all, there's just all, there's all kinds of contracts that you can jump on. And I had no idea what I was doing. I thought it was all like one tiered system and um, so I threw my name in, in this kind of recruiting thing and they came back, there's a company called Armor Group.

• 1:42:28Speaker 02

  And uh, out of UK and they picked me up first and I was like, all right, well, whatever. This seems pretty low level, but they wanted to make me like a, a guy in charge because of my background and I was like, all right, fine. I'll go do this. So I went into the tryout. It was a complete joke and then um, got to Afghanistan and it was, they put me at the front gate of the, of the embassy and I was like, I lasted about a week and I was like, hey, give me a flight home. I'm out of here. This is fucking bullshit. Like I'm not, I'm not gonna be

• 1:43:02Tucker Carlson?

  You thought you were boarding the SEALs?

• 1:43:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. And uh, well, I mean, then that's where all the V-bids go off to the car bombs. So I was like, no, I'm not doing this and uh, went home.

• 1:43:13Speaker 02

  And um, got into a uh, fire academy. Didn't like it. And then a friend called

• 1:43:22Tucker Carlson?

  A fire, mean to be a fireman?

• 1:43:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, to be a firefighter. Cause I really miss the camaraderie and um, And then a friend of mine that I served in Afghanistan with called me up and said, hey, um, there's a contract that Blackwater has and I think you should try out for it. And I was like, um, no, I'm not doing it. I just did a quick pump. I hated it. I was with a bunch of guys that don't know what the hell they're doing. Some of these people were like Bank of America security guards. I was like, this is crazy. And, uh, he goes, no, he's like, hey, he's like, everybody on this contract has to be from special ops. It's a black contract. I can't tell you who it's for, but just give me your resume and I'm gonna try to get you in. And so I was like, all

• 1:44:09Speaker 02

  right, fine. Gave it to him and then, um, got a call from Blackwater and, um, just told me where and when, uh, where to be and what to bring. And it would be-

• 1:44:22Tucker Carlson?

  What did they want you to bring?

• 1:44:24Speaker 02

  It was just, you know, you need these type of clothes. You need this type of equipment and, um, show up here, go all the way to the back to the black side and, um, it'll be a month-long course if you make it. And, um, so I showed up and, and did the, did the vetting course.

• 1:44:43Tucker Carlson?

  At Blackwater?

• 1:44:44Speaker 02

  At Blackwater.

• 1:44:45Tucker Carlson?

  In North Carolina?

• 1:44:45Speaker 02

  Yep. And, um, and, um, made it.

• 1:44:49Tucker Carlson?

  What'd you think of the vetting course?

• 1:44:51Speaker 02

  It was tough.

• 1:44:52Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 1:44:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was tough.

• 1:44:54Tucker Carlson?

  Having been through BUDs, you thought it was tough?

• 1:44:56Speaker 02

  It wasn't tough like that. It wasn't like, uh, you have to prove, well, you do have to prove yourself. It wasn't like a, uh, they're not yelling at you and screaming and kicking you around and all that kind of shit. It is a demonstration of your skills. And if you cannot demonstrate your skills to the highest level, then you go home. And, um-

• 1:45:18Tucker Carlson?

  What kind of skills?

• 1:45:19Speaker 02

  Shooting skills, driving skills, uh, close quarters combat that's entering a room and clearing buildings and rooms and stuff, working with a team. How do you integrate in with all these other special ops guys? And, and so there's a lot that goes to it, uh, into it. A lot of, they put you in a lot of, uh, extremely stressful situations and you, you have to handle it flawlessly or you'll be asked to leave. Um, but the shooting qualifications were, um,

• 1:45:53Speaker 02

  really tough.

• 1:45:54Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 1:45:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:45:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, the shooting qualifications were really tough. And so was the CQB, the close quarters combat. So like one, one of the exercises, they had this thing called the hooded box drill. And they basically put you in a room like this and they would tape a square. And you have to, you have to stand in the square and they give you either a rifle or a pistol. And they have like fake flashbangs going off, smoke, yelling, screaming, role players, and they put a hood over your head on a string. So this hood goes over your head, you can't see anything, it's dark, there's strobes, there's all kinds of shit going on.

• 1:46:42Speaker 02

  You can hear like all these screams and all this stuff going on and you are not allowed to leave the box. And so they set up the scenario and they lift the hood over your head. And then you have to deal with the scenario. So like, I think the very first scenario, put the hood over my head. There's all these people in there, I can hear them. And I left, they left the hood up on the string. And there's a guy like closer than from me to you right now with a gun, with a rifle. As soon as the hood goes up, he snaps my head.

• 1:47:27Speaker 02

  Uh, you're wearing a helmet, but he snaps my head with the, with the muzzle of his rifle, we call it a muzzle snap. And uh, or a muzzle strike and it knocks me back. And then there's all these people in there that this guy's armed, this guy's unarmed. There's a female over there with a burke on and you don't know what's underneath. And you got another guy with a person with a gun in their head, people are shooting at you. And you have to deal and process all that information, not killing innocent, not killing unknown. And, and deal with the situation. And then, and then they call you back to your box, back to the box. And it's very unemotional. They're, they're, they're not like, hey, you could have done this better or why didn't you do that?

• 1:48:08Speaker 02

  It's either get the fuck out of here or we're going to run a scenario. And then you come back to the box and they put the hood back over your head and then. Lift the hood and you're in a totally different scenario and it might be, it might be the next scenario they lift up, nobody's shooting at you, everybody's calm, or people are yelling and shit and shooting their guns up in the air and you, you have to figure out who's a threat, who's unknown, who's an innocent, who's a, who's a, a blue helmet, which would be um, a, an asset of ours. He obviously can't kill the asset and um,

• 1:48:49Speaker 02

  and so they run you through a number of scenarios there doing that. A lot of, a lot of people, you know, fail that, so.

• 1:48:56Tucker Carlson?

  But you did not fail.

• 1:48:58Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:48:59Tucker Carlson?

  Did you enjoy it?

• 1:49:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was challenging. I like it. I like to be challenged and um, it in, uh, really like,

• 1:49:09Speaker 02

  it, it, it's really hard to put you in, in an environment that can be as stressful as what combat is and uh, and, and you know, when you're in combat, I mean, the decision making has to be on point and very precise. And they did a great job of simulating that kind of stress that you're going to deal with uh, when it's actually for real. And um, so I, I thought it was a, a great drill.

• 1:49:37Tucker Carlson?

  What kind of guys were at the training facility?

• 1:49:39Speaker 02

  All former SOF. So it was all SEALs, SF, Delta, Dev Group, um, couple of Rangers, MAR-SOC, which is Marine Special Ops, uh, Air Force CCT, Air Force PJs.

• 1:49:55Speaker 02

  Um, I think that covers it.

• 1:49:58Tucker Carlson?

  So highest, highest level that the US military produces?

• 1:50:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you had to, you had to have that background and just to be able to try out for this specific contract.

• 1:50:09Tucker Carlson?

  What was the contract?

• 1:50:10Speaker 02

  That was the, they called it the OGA contract, which was the CIA contract.

• 1:50:15Tucker Carlson?

  What's OGA stand for?

• 1:50:16Speaker 02

  Other Government Agency.

• 1:50:22Tucker Carlson?

  So then what, so you get it?

• 1:50:24Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. So.

• 1:50:26Tucker Carlson?

  Are you still thinking about Jimmy John's at this point, or has the box drill just wiped that from your memory?

• 1:50:30Speaker 02

  Nah, nah, I was still thinking about it. Um, but, so yeah, so then at the end you find out that it is for CIA. And, um, you'd already had your, your new clearances done. And, um, and, uh, they give you dates, kick you out the door.

• 1:50:53Tucker Carlson?

  How long was the commitment and where did you go?

• 1:50:55Speaker 02

  There's no commitment. Um, at least not that I remember, but first, uh, trip was to, uh, Kabul, Afghanistan. And, um, you can do kind of, I mean, Blackwater, I think had a 60-day minimum deployments. Um, so you could do up to maybe a hundred something days. And so some guys go and they do a hundred something days, they come home for a week and then they're right back out. And there's guys that do 60 on, 60 off. And, um, so you just kind of come up with your cadence and, and go.

• 1:51:37Tucker Carlson?

  What were you doing for CIA in Kabul?

• 1:51:40Speaker 02

  So when I started this, uh, it was a protective unit. And so, um, like the guys that fought in Benghazi, those, that's the, that's the, the program that I was in. And so it kind of started off as a protective, um, type detail for, for actual operatives. Uh, cause there is no, I mean, there is no Jason Bourne over there. That's why they need people like me, cause it takes two people to be a Jason Bourne. And, um, so we would help case officers, plan their operations, plan their meets, stuff like that, conduct, and then conduct surveillance, conduct counter-surveillance, um, get them kind of whatever they need.

• 1:52:25Speaker 02

  And, um, at the beginning it was, and I wasn't really near the beginning. I mean, I think I started contracting in 2007, so the war had been going on for what, about six years? And um, so towards the beginning, I guess, but um, you know, it was real pain in the ass because I mean, at the beginning of the war, you know, you had all these case officers coming in and, and they're fresh out of school and they don't really understand the environment that they're in. They don't think they need us until they need us and then they're screaming for us. But a lot of case officers and chiefs of station and deputy chiefs of station, uh,

• 1:53:06Speaker 02

  that would be the head guy and head CIA in country, they, they, they kind of saw us as a hindrance to their operations until shit started happening like Benghazi coast, a lot of these uh tragic events that happened. And then every once in a while you'd get like a really good, it's sorry, so let's backtrack a little more. So you get a lot of these and then you get the old timers that are coming in from the Cold War and they're used to working in a semi-permissive environment or a permissive environment where they don't need that kind of shit. They can just go and meet their assets and drink their fucking coffee.

• 1:53:39Tucker Carlson?

  They were in Vienna in the seventies.

• 1:53:41Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly. Those types. And then they go to Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Pakistan, you know, all these types of places and they, they bring that mindset with them and it's like, hey bud, that shit isn't gonna work here. So these people fucking hate you. And um, but every once in a while you'd get a guy who was a retired Green Beret or a retired uh special operations Marine or a SEAL or whoever and they would, they would look at the, at the, the program that I was in and they would, they would, they would realize like, these guys are all special ops. Like they have a lot of capability that we're not

• 1:54:23Speaker 02

  utilizing them for. And so then, then things started getting added to the plate. You know, they're like, hey, could you guys? Do X, Y, or Z and we're like, oh yeah, we can do all of that. We just, you guys just don't utilize that capability. Cause I don't think you realize that everybody here is extremely capable.

• 1:54:42Tucker Carlson?

  Not mall cops.

• 1:54:44Speaker 02

  And, uh, yeah. And, uh, so then they started using us for all kinds of stuff and, um, and, uh, it, it was, some places were interesting. Some place was, were an Xbox tour and, um, meaning you just sit around and work out and play Xbox, but, um, kind of depending where you're at. So.

• 1:55:07Tucker Carlson?

  What was the most interesting?

• 1:55:13Speaker 02

  How it all kind of works and some of the meetings that you sit in on and, and, and, you know, from a personal standpoint, I've always been fascinated with how people live in extreme poverty and, and, uh, and to see like, just to see it and experience it and, and, and be a part of it, try to blend into it, uh, was both a challenge and very fascinating to.

• 1:55:43Tucker Carlson?

  How long did you do this gig?

• 1:55:45Speaker 02

  Uh, right around, I think it was a little less than nine years.

• 1:55:50Tucker Carlson?

  Nine years?

• 1:55:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:52Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, that's a long time.

• 1:55:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. I took a little break.

• 1:55:56Tucker Carlson?

  What did you think of the CIA?

• 1:55:58Speaker 02

  Uh, once again, same, same kind of thing that I thought of the SEAL teams. This isn't what it is cracked up to be.

• 1:56:08Speaker 02

  Like here's an example. First day I get there and, um, just trying to get the lay of the land. And so it's, I don't want to like talk too much shit because there are some very capable people and, and, and.

• 1:56:26Speaker 02

  Like us, like you get in the country, you don't even do anything for the first two weeks. They're like, here's a map. Here's some keys. Other keys over there, so you don't burn any of our cars. Take a different one every day. And you need to know this entire city, every back road, every road name, every venue, everything, everything about this city you need to know. And if you don't know it in two weeks, then you're out. And so you pair up with another guy that's never been in country and you just hit the roads and you know everything about that city.

• 1:57:04Tucker Carlson?

  Kind of dangerous, white guys driving around Kabul.

• 1:57:07Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, it is. I mean, it is. And you don't always dress up like white guys, but you know, in a place like Kabul or Baghdad, there's diplomats from every country out there, State Department, CIA, NSA, DEA, FBI.

• 1:57:26Speaker 02

  In, in the equivalent of that in every NATO country, right? So there's diplomats everywhere. So sometimes your cover might be your diplomat in State Department. And sometimes depending on where you're at, you might be dressed up in Muslim garb. And I mean, they trick the vehicles out so they look local. And, and so it's, I mean, you can blend in. You're not gonna like, you're not gonna blend in, you know, running around the streets.

• 1:58:01Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:58:01Speaker 02

  But you'll, at first glance, it'll pass. And so that's what you do. You learn every, everything, everything about the city. I know a lot of these places better than I know my hometown.

• 1:58:16Tucker Carlson?

  Nine years. So what countries were you working in over that period?

• 1:58:21Speaker 02

  I spent the majority of my time in Yemen, Iraq and Afghanistan.

• 1:58:28Tucker Carlson?

  What's Yemen like?

• 1:58:30Speaker 02

  It's my favorite place to work.

• 1:58:33Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 1:58:34Speaker 02

  Because it is the poorest country in the Middle East. And probably the most dangerous. And it was, I just, I loved.

• 1:58:48Speaker 02

  I felt like I was doing more there than anywhere else and it was you had to take tradecraft extremely seriously. Very tribal country. The north is completely different than the south and you had to learn the cultures of both so that if you're operating in the north that you know how to dress like the northerners do. You have to dress like how the southerners do down in Aiden and and and try to blend in and and and it's also like a spy game there. I mean, the Russians are there, the Iranians are there, the Chinese are there. And so you're trying to figure out where they're operating out of, what their safe houses look like. Chinese

• 1:59:30Speaker 02

  are always super easy to identify because you would just be passing through Yemen and all these mud huts or safe houses and or just houses. And, you know, you drive by the Chinese compound every single time they have 120 antennas on the roof. It's like, nice one, guys. But it would get, I mean, and it's, it's, it's, so you're, so you're conducting, you know, normal operations and dealing with terrorists and assets and all that kind of stuff, you know, for the main initiative. But on the other hand, you're also having to conduct surveillance and counter surveillance from the Russians, from the Chinese, from the Iranians, any other key players that are in those countries and have to know who's

• 2:00:14Speaker 02

  who. And, and, and, and they're spying on us and we're spying on, it's, it's, it's very complex.

• 2:00:23Tucker Carlson?

  Did you chew gut when you were there?

• 2:00:26Speaker 02

  Uh, no, but I bought some.

• 2:00:28Tucker Carlson?

  But you never tried it?

• 2:00:29Speaker 02

  Nah, I never tried it.

• 2:00:30Tucker Carlson?

  But the whole country is hooked on it, right?

• 2:00:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. You would, you would, you would, I mean, it's, yeah, you would see these guys and just the whole, the whole population and I mean, they would just be so zonked out on that. You say, I'm in a shitty taxi drive with, they're not even blinking and flies are landing on their fucking eyes. And it's like, holy shit, man. People live like this? This is crazy. And, and, yeah, I was, you just never know who you're gonna run into over there either. I mean,

• 2:01:01Tucker Carlson?

  What do you mean?

• 2:01:03Speaker 02

  I mean, I would see, I would, oh, like other operators, like I'd see, I'd see guys that are in safe houses from other. Units that are over there and and I would see like their call sign up on the on the board and I'd be like, is that who I think it is? Oh, shit. I haven't seen him since like buds when I was in the SEAL team and I'd call over there and be like, hey, get get up on the roof. I want to see him. We'd have a phone conversation, looking at each other, waving from rooftop to rooftop like what? Go over and meet him. What are you guys getting into tonight? They'd be running operations and killing bad guys and and it was just, it was

• 2:01:46Speaker 02

  very unique and complex to be able to work there.

• 2:01:51Tucker Carlson?

  So you probably knew the Houthis existed before the rest of us?

• 2:01:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:55Tucker Carlson?

  What do you think of the Houthis?

• 2:01:57Speaker 02

  Uh, I mean, I don't really follow up on it too much these days, but I mean, they took over that damn country and um, in no time. I mean, they yanked the, I can't remember if he was a president or a prime minister or whatever, but they took the whole country when we were there in like a matter of hours. And um, so they were, they were really effective and woke up one day and all these new checkpoints are out. The, the guy got yanked out of the palace by the Houthis and and on totally different dynamic and less than 24 hours.

• 2:02:36Tucker Carlson?

  Were you ever afraid when you were there?

• 2:02:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, a lot.

• 2:02:42Tucker Carlson?

  Did Americans ever get hurt when you were there?

• 2:02:46Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:02:48Tucker Carlson?

  Interesting. You wound up in Latin America.

• 2:02:51Speaker 02

  We, we, we got shot at a lot and car bombs at the gates and shit like that, but not, not any heavy casualties, no, no deaths.

• 2:03:01Tucker Carlson?

  How'd you wind up in South America?

• 2:03:05Speaker 02

  Uh, well, when I left, I was um, very addicted to adrenaline and um, went down to Colombia. I'd always wanted, when I joined the SEAL teams, I was really uh, inspired by the Vietnam generation. I just like was infatuated with that stuff as a kid, watched all the documentaries of all the SEALs in Vietnam and in Green Berets and I, I just wanted to do jungle warfare. And so the closest I could get to that was uh, running counter drug operations out of Colombia. When I when I joined the SEAL teams and then, you know, nine eleven happened. So

• 2:03:44Speaker 02

  definitely wasn't going on wasn't going down there. And so I had broken broken up with a girlfriend. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go down there and check it out. And so I went down there for a little over a week. Loved it. Had the time of my life doing nothing Christian based. And

• 2:04:10Tucker Carlson?

  Where?

• 2:04:11Speaker 02

  Cartagena is where I started. And then went home, had a surgery. And I was sitting at a bar in Cape Coral, Florida, listening to a bunch of lazy, entitled Americans talk about their opinion of the war and all this other shit. And I just got so fucking tired of listening to the shit on on people's opinions that had never been there, never done it, had never lost anybody, probably had never even faced any type of hardship in their life. And they're just judging me and all of my friends. And I was like, you know what? I'm fucking out of here, man. So I put my house on the market and went back down to Cartagena,

• 2:04:56Speaker 02

  stayed with a friend. The Secret Service scandal happened down there. Remember that?

• 2:05:02Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 2:05:02Speaker 02

  And which kind of like, put it on the map for for people to come visit and

• 2:05:12Speaker 02

  to go do bad things. And and it became like, very Americanized. And I was like, I don't want to be anywhere near Americans at all. And so I I checked a lot of spots out around Columbia. I went to Cali, I went to Puerto Rico, I went to Medellin, and then camped out in Medellin for about four years. And

• 2:05:38Tucker Carlson?

  Doing what?

• 2:05:39Speaker 02

  Doing what? Doing

• 2:05:44Speaker 02

  Living a rock star life and a lot of cocaine, a lot of girls, a lot of

• 2:05:52Speaker 02

  Basically, what I was doing was chasing my adrenaline and because I wanted to feel that all the time and it it creates some type of imbalance in your brain when you have that many adrenaline dumps and you it's it's very much like a heroin addiction and so I went down there and then I started doing a lot of shit that I shouldn't be doing buying drugs that became a big rush buying and sourcing and cocaine and and so that's how it would get my thrills and

• 2:06:26Tucker Carlson?

  What were you was that what you were doing for a living?

• 2:06:29Speaker 02

  No, it wasn't for a living, man. It was it was for the rush. And so, you know, I've talked about this on a couple of other podcasts, but you know that there's a lot of like rumors going around that I was down there working for CIA, setting up these drug networks when yes, they do do that, but no, I was by myself on my own program. And I've always been fascinated with narcos and and kingpins and cartels and it's like it was it was a major rush for me to go into the worst neighborhoods in Colombia and start setting up night networks and

• 2:07:16Speaker 02

  it it I mean, it's extremely dangerous for a gringo to be I would go in neighborhoods where there were you couldn't get into the neighborhood without going through at least two checkpoints and and so I would just I would go in there. I would hang out. I would talk to people. I would buy drugs, cocaine, bringing it back to my place, do them all, then go get more, go get more.

• 2:07:45Tucker Carlson?

  What does cocaine cost?

• 2:07:47Speaker 02

  Five bucks a gram.

• 2:07:50Tucker Carlson?

  So about a twentieth of what it costs the United States.

• 2:07:54Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:07:56Speaker 02

  And so what I saw, you know, back to my entrepreneurial branch is, uh, you know, what it was going to be is, you know, you get, I admit, put, mentioned that, you know, Secret Service kind of put

• 2:08:11Speaker 02

  sex vacations on the map for

• 2:08:15Tucker Carlson?

  Which is not technically their job, right?

• 2:08:17Speaker 02

  For rich, white people to come down there and, and take advantage of that. And

• 2:08:25Speaker 02

  you know, down there, I mean,

• 2:08:28Speaker 02

  prostitution and these type of things are not looked at like they are here. It's an actual legitimate career. And, um, and, um, so you get these guys that come down and, and that's all they want to do. And they want cocaine, but they're all scared to talk to the Colombians because they think they're all cartel and they're all going to chop your head off. And so what I was going to be was an intermediary and, and basically

• 2:08:52Tucker Carlson?

  The maître d' of Medellin.

• 2:08:53Speaker 02

  Like, I'll deal with all these people and I'll get you what you want and you can just talk to me.

• 2:09:02Tucker Carlson?

  For a fee?

• 2:09:03Speaker 02

  For a fee.

• 2:09:05Tucker Carlson?

  Did you do that?

• 2:09:06Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:09:08Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 2:09:09Speaker 02

  Uh, because I got sloppy and I got ran out of there by the Colombian version of the FBI.

• 2:09:19Tucker Carlson?

  Did you go to jail down there?

• 2:09:20Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:09:23Speaker 02

  As soon as I caught wind of it, I left. And, um, but I built, um, I built a network from the ground up. And so just like how I was telling you, I take care of my team right now and I want the best for them. And, and I treat them with respect and I'm, um, very giving. I was like that down there and so. Starting with the doorman, you know, I mean, I would live in these penthouses at the top story of the building, wherever I was at. And I would make friends with all the guys that were at the door because they control who comes in and out of the building. And so if I went to the grocery store, they got groceries. If I bought cocaine, they got cocaine. If I went to go get booze,

• 2:10:08Speaker 02

  they got booze. If I went to go get pizza, they got a pizza. And so I just took care of them all the time because I knew it would get to the point where they would watch my ass.

• 2:10:20Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 2:10:20Speaker 02

  And, and so I did that and built a great rapport with them. And then, you know, nobody knows town better than taxis. And so I would take taxis and take taxis and try to develop relationship with different taxi guys that were not scared to go into Barrio Antioquia, uh, which is kind of the, the worst neighborhood down there. And, and I would have my girls help me make decisions and, and tell me about the different taxi drivers that they used to pick them up from the clubs and stuff like that when they were done working or partying or whatever. And, um, and so I developed

• 2:11:04Speaker 02

  a really good relationship with a couple of different taxi drivers and they would show me everything I need to know, all the places that people don't want to go where, and I would get in with them. And then I would get in with the dealers and then the dealers would introduce me to their mid dealer and then they would introduce me to their guy. And, and the network grew so big that if I went to other countries, they would know who I was. And,

• 2:11:34Tucker Carlson?

  What were you doing for income?

• 2:11:36Speaker 02

  Well, I made money contracting and your money goes a lot farther down there than it does in the US. So I didn't really need any.

• 2:11:46Tucker Carlson?

  Hmm.

• 2:11:47Speaker 02

  Until I blew it all. But, um, but, um, so.

• 2:11:55Speaker 02

  The story goes, uh, so that's what I did and, uh, got in a lot of really hairy situations where I didn't know if I was gonna come out, didn't really care if I did. Uh, I kinda had the Hunter S. Thompson, uh, mindset where if life gets too boring, then I'll just check out. And, um, it was starting to get boring down there. I'd OD'd a couple times.

• 2:12:23Tucker Carlson?

  And, um, What's a cocaine OD like?

• 2:12:26Speaker 02

  So cocaine OD is, you know, when you, I remember, uh, my best friend was down there for a little while with me and, and, um,

• 2:12:38Speaker 02

  I would always think, oh shit, I probably did too much. I'm gonna die. And

• 2:12:44Speaker 02

  he got tired of me being paranoid about it. And he goes, look, he's like, you don't need to worry about ODing on cocaine until things start slowing down. When you're on speed and things get slow, that's when you're really riding the line. And that had happened to me a couple of times where it sounded like my voice was in slow motion. The people next to me, uh, that I was talking to all of a sudden sounded like the Will Ferrell thing where it's like, and I'm like, and you can't talk, you can't get the words out that are in your head. And, um, and that's when you know it's about time the lights are gonna go out. And, um, and they did

• 2:13:28Speaker 02

  go out. But, um,

• 2:13:31Tucker Carlson?

  How do you recover from that?

• 2:13:33Speaker 02

  Lots of Valium.

• 2:13:35Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:13:38Speaker 02

  Lots of Valium, Xanax, stuff like that. And, um,

• 2:13:45Speaker 02

  And so, so I developed these, everything got boring to me. So the women got boring. It sounds weird to say that because it's like, you know, but it did. It was like, there's nothing that you could say that I had not done. And that got me to go deeper in and go to more dangerous places and

• 2:14:16Tucker Carlson?

  Doesn't sound weird at all. It sounds absolutely right. There's no satisfaction in that. First it gets boring.

• 2:14:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so then I started looking up the most dangerous places in the world. And I looked up the most dangerous place in the world and it was San Pedro Sula in Honduras. So I went there and started to try to develop a network there just for the rush.

• 2:14:39Tucker Carlson?

  What was that like?

• 2:14:40Speaker 02

  Uh, got almost arrested on the first night. So it didn't last long.

• 2:14:48Tucker Carlson?

  Were the other Americans down there?

• 2:14:50Speaker 02

  In Honduras?

• 2:14:52Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:53Speaker 02

  Not at that time, which I thrived off that. It made me feel really alive. Like, oh, this is like uncharted territory. Nobody comes here because they're scared to death.

• 2:15:05Tucker Carlson?

  Did your dad ever text you to say, hey, what about the Jimmy John's franchise we're supposed to be doing?

• 2:15:09Speaker 02

  Nah, because 2008 happened and, and so that it got called off very beginning of my contract career. And then, and yeah, and he went on to do other things. And yeah, so, and I was, I was frustrated, but the money was really good contracting. And so I kind of got like stuck in this loop of like, well, just go over there and make a bunch of money and then do whatever the hell I want to do. And

• 2:15:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, so anyways, so um, the last thing that got me, and I was talking to my dad too, I knew I had a problem and I, I'm really close with my parents, my dad's my hero, and um, I would call him all fucked up on coke, or Valium, or Xanax, or hydrocodone, or oxy, or whatever. And uh, he's always, or drunk, and um, I would allude to my dad, like, I gotta get the hell out of here, I'm gonna die, and, and I wouldn't remember a lot of these conversations, I'd be totally blacked out.

• 2:16:24Speaker 02

  And um, he was trying to get me to go get some help, and um, I lied to him, told him I was talking to this Vietnam guy about my experiences, and I was, but that guy was a total mess too. And um,

• 2:16:39Tucker Carlson?

  He was there for the same reason.

• 2:16:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. No, this wasn't in Columbia, this was actually in Fort Lauderdale. And um,

• 2:16:46Tucker Carlson?

  Same difference.

• 2:16:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, and um, and I had, uh, there's this place called uh,

• 2:16:56Speaker 02

  what was it called, Pointe de los Locos, or something, which, Bridge of the Crazies. And so it was like, all these, like, look like LA, lots of tents under an overpass, and uh, crazy drug addicts, um, who have no direction in life, who are dirt poor, and um, had a bunch of girls with me, and I went to that bridge, and um, it stacked up a ton of cash, and thought it would be a great idea to throw all the cash up and just watch these people, like, go to town to try to get it. And um, very, very dangerous, um, part of Medellin, and um, came back.

• 2:17:45Speaker 02

  To my building walk through and the doorman came up and told me that um that the national police had come to question him about me and one of my passport and all this shit and wanted to know who I was, where I came from, what I'm doing, all of that stuff. And I was pissed. I was like, man, and the guy's name was Freddie and I'm talking to him in Spanish. And I'm like, man, I always take care of you. I can't believe you would you would try to suck more money out of me on this bullshit story. And um, he's like, no, he was trying to tell me

• 2:18:27Speaker 02

  that they had bugged the light outside my door and which I couldn't understand. My Spanish wasn't that good, but eventually I got what he was saying. And I was like, this is complete bullshit. There's no way. And he showed me, he said, they have a picture of you at the bridge throwing money in the air. And I'd just come from there. And so that that point, I knew that he wasn't lying. I was like, okay, literally, nobody knows that I did that because it was like 45 minutes ago. And the only people that would know is my taxi guy and the girls that were with me and the

• 2:19:06Speaker 02

  crazies that were living under the bridge. And so he'd said that they had set up a observation,

• 2:19:15Speaker 02

  basically an observation point at the building across from me and were watching me from that apartment. So I went up and identified it where it was, flushed all the coke and went back into

• 2:19:37Speaker 02

  my previous life on surveillance and counter surveillance. And I did a a counter surveillance route to a couple of different internet cafes, bought a couple of tickets to different places outside of the country and hauled ass to the airport, got got out of there and never went back.

• 2:19:53Tucker Carlson?

  That day?

• 2:19:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:19:55Tucker Carlson?

  Was decisive.

• 2:19:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:19:58Tucker Carlson?

  It's your hooded box training.

• 2:19:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So that's, that's, that's, that's how that ended.

• 2:20:05Tucker Carlson?

  How long, uh, between that moment and the beginning of your podcast?

• 2:20:11Speaker 02

  Not long. Oh, the podcast.

• 2:20:18Speaker 02

  Probably

• 2:20:24Speaker 02

  couple of years.

• 2:20:26Tucker Carlson?

  So it, it, that wasn't that long ago.

• 2:20:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:29Tucker Carlson?

  You were leading a life that bears no resemblance at all to the life you're leading right now.

• 2:20:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:33Tucker Carlson?

  At all.

• 2:20:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. It took, it took a lot of work, you know, and, um, it took a lot of work to, to clean myself up and, and find a productive direction to start running and, and, um, and once, once I discovered business, um, that became my new addiction.

• 2:20:56Tucker Carlson?

  What do you make of the claim that you're still working for CIA?

• 2:21:00Speaker 02

  I think it's, um, I mean, whatever, people are going to think what they think, but, um, people don't understand how it works over there. And so, I mean, there's a part of me that understands it. I'm like, all right, like, I didn't really come out of nowhere. You know what I mean? I mean, a lot of people say like, oh, this guy just pops on the map and like fucking gets ginormous. And it's like, uh, you, you didn't see all the backend work that it took to get here. And I started this in my attic as a one man team and then taught my wife how to film and it was me and her. And we only did nine interviews for the first year and a half because I was editing, sound, video, cutting previews, doing social

• 2:21:43Speaker 02

  media packages, doing distribution, doing the research, interviewing, you know, all of that stuff. And, um, so, I mean, it, I think it's, you know, it really pisses me off is when somebody that I am paying attention to because they're bringing things out that...

• 2:22:07Speaker 02

  I'm into they're going down rabbit holes and in conspiracy stuff that a lot of time winds up to be true. But then, and I think we're all on the same team. And then I'll see him throw something out like Sean Ryan's a CIA shill. And it's like, dude, I just, I was like totally fucking bought in on what you're bringing to the table and all of your research. It was like really good stuff. And I, I thought it was trustworthy. But when you throw something like that out there, you've just discredited yourself to me because you have no fucking proof because I'm not one. And now I don't believe anything that you say, because if you're just gonna loose lip, throw shit out there like that, then what else are you fucking throwing out that you have not verified?

• 2:22:51Tucker Carlson?

  I've had some more experiences.

• 2:22:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:53Tucker Carlson?

  Um, I do think that people are paranoid because it is true that the CIA operates against, you know, the constitution against the law in the United States. And it, um, it does try and shape news coverage. Like, that's a fact.

• 2:23:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, I mean, I'm, I'm, I know that that happens and, and, and happens all the time. But at the same time, if you've listened to me, I've been extremely hard on CIA. And I've talked about things that they have done that make me very paranoid. Uh, after the interview, like we, I can't remember if we discussed that an hour ago, or if that was last night at dinner. But I mean, I there it, it that, that, that happens. And all the fucking time, all over the world. But, you know, I, but nobody is ever able to pinpoint exactly why they think that they just throw it out.

• 2:23:55Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 2:23:55Speaker 02

  Like, like, there was, it really grew traction after I interviewed, um, the founder of Palantir. And because, I mean, people think that's a big war machine and a, and a, um,

• 2:24:12Speaker 02

  losing my train of thought here, the military industrial complex type company and, and, but, I mean, guess what, buddy, like, We need innovators and we have to innovate. We can't just be doing the same old shit. And I want to know how we're innovating our military capabilities and our, our intelligence capabilities. And that's a big part of it. And it, you know, to be honest with you, it gives me comfort knowing that we are still innovating as much red tape as we have to deal with. And I, I think that that's what gives me a glimmer of hope when we're talking about global domination and China and all that kind of stuff.

• 2:24:55Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, and

• 2:24:56Speaker 02

  But people don't even under, I don't know why Palantir has such a bad rap. Maybe you know something that I don't, but I mean, to me, that was fucking genius. It speeds up the decision making process. It speeds up the intelligence gathering. We're able to access information, you know, lightning speed to be ahead of whoever our adversary is.

• 2:25:16Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, people are mad at Palantir because they disagree with US foreign policy. I think that's kind of the main, from what I can tell, I'm hardly an expert on the subject. Um, but I think that it's, I mean, not to be a conspiracy nut, but your, uh, you know, public performance over the past five and a half years has, you know, been run counter to the aims of the CIA, I would say. I mean, it has. And so to tell people that you yourself are working for the CIA secretly is a way to discredit you. But if I were the CIA, I would be encouraging. I guess that's what I'm saying.

• 2:25:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a good point. That is a good point.

• 2:25:57Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, I'm very hostile to CIA. I've said that many, many times. It doesn't stop people from claiming that I secretly work there. Yeah. So, and I've always thought that maybe that was.

• 2:26:08Speaker 02

  I mean, I've challenged people too. Um, cause I, I think about it. I mean, it would be impossible. You know, I mean, they might.

• 2:26:21Speaker 02

  They might have somebody in operative do a five hour interview. And they might say, hey, this is all we need you to get in that interview. It's this one fucking sentence. And so the whole other five hours could be complete bullshit. Except for the one little thing that they want injected into that interview to create some type of a narrative. And I'm always trying to look out for that, but it would be impossible. It would be impossible to figure out what exactly that is. If, if that operative is good. And they'll do other things like.

• 2:27:04Speaker 02

  They may do other things like, hey, we know that this happened. You're going to go to this show and you're going to talk about this. And then two weeks from now, that's going to come out in the media. Or we'll wait until the interviewer releases that specific episode. And then two weeks after, we're going to release this to the press. And then they're going to say, this was set on this show by this person before it ever came out of the media. And then when it comes out in the media, because right, everybody hates the media, but they still fucking watch it all the time. That builds credibility to the operative. You know what I mean? And then they, and then, and then.

• 2:27:49Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I know what you mean.

• 2:27:51Speaker 02

  Okay, you're tracking.

• 2:27:52Tucker Carlson?

  So I, I'm watching it all around me.

• 2:27:54Speaker 02

  So.

• 2:27:55Tucker Carlson?

  Do, do you feel that, have you ever had a guest where you thought, huh?

• 2:27:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:28:00Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 2:28:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:28:03Tucker Carlson?

  That this person might be.

• 2:28:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:28:05Tucker Carlson?

  Acting on behalf of an intel agency.

• 2:28:07Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Had a couple of them.

• 2:28:10Tucker Carlson?

  Any confirmation on that?

• 2:28:12Speaker 02

  No, you know, gut instinct. Um, I don't want to name a bunch of names because if they're not, I don't want to.

• 2:28:21Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 2:28:22Speaker 02

  You know, but I, I just did a really good interview with this guy, Blaram Scoro, who was an asset. He got recruited out of prison and then he, he got recruited in prison uh by the CIA to, right after nine 11 to make friends with all of the Muslim Brotherhood, all the terrorists that were in there. And so he built a network in there and then when he got out of prison and so he would report back to the agency about like, hey, this is what this guy has done. This is what he's a part of. These are the people he talks to. Cause they all trusted him because this guy basically became like the head mullah of the prison system. And when he got out,

• 2:29:07Speaker 02

  agency gets back in touch with him and said, hey, you're going to use this network and you're gonna, your, your, your cover is going to be you're building a Al Qaeda cell in Macedonia.

• 2:29:22Speaker 02

  And so he, he would set up shop in Macedonia and he would go into Pakistan and go into Afghanistan and Syria, Iraq, Iran, all these Russia, all these places. And he would meet with the head, um, the head of the Haqqani network, the head of the Taliban, the head of Al Qaeda, like, um, very, I, I, I, he didn't meet specifically with Bin Laden, but he's like one step away. And

• 2:29:50Tucker Carlson?

  That's a dangerous job.

• 2:29:52Speaker 02

  No kidding, man. That's the real Jason Bourne shit right there. And what he would do is say, hey, you know, I'm recruiting because I'm setting up a terrorist cell in Macedonia.

• 2:30:05Speaker 02

  And then they would give him all of these weapons. They give him bombs, rocket launchers, guns, mines, and you name it. And then basically what he would do is tell them that that shipment is, is, he would take care of logistics and to get that to Macedonia. But what he would really do is get it to the agency and then supposedly they would destroy it.

• 2:30:26Tucker Carlson?

  What do you say supposedly they would destroy it?

• 2:30:28Speaker 02

  Well, who knows, you know? I don't know. But, because I don't trust him. But, the, so then, uh, he has an assassination attempt. Um, CIA cuts him. He gets pissed off. He's still pissed off, rightly so. Um, at the same time, I'm like, how do you think this works, man? Like, you got burned. They don't use burned assets. Like, you're irrelevant at this point. And then he started telling me about, um, getting uranium out of Russia. And so we kind of had this discussion.

• 2:31:11Speaker 02

  And you know, Russia's a big, obviously a big topic of discussion. Some people think we should be in Ukraine, some people don't. And, and some people think Russia's our allies, some people don't. And, and, um, I'm kind of like, this isn't really our war. Why are we involved? But, but he, I said, well, what are they going to do with these? And he said that they, that they wanted to get them into the US and it would blow, it would kill half a million people. And I asked him if he thought he'd done that. And, but it didn't really fit in the interview. It didn't fit, you know what I mean? Did not fit in the interview.

• 2:31:47Tucker Carlson?

  Do I know what you mean? Yes, in fact, I was just thinking that as you were speaking.

• 2:31:50Speaker 02

  Like, we're, we're talking about all these other things.

• 2:31:52Tucker Carlson?

  I don't trust this for a second.

• 2:31:54Speaker 02

  And then all of a sudden, we get to Russia. And so I just called him right there on the interview. I was like, you know what goes through my mind? I, I said, when's the last time you had contact with CIA?

• 2:32:04Tucker Carlson?

  That was exactly what I was just thinking.

• 2:32:05Speaker 02

  And he said, January 16th or something in 2022. Like, knew the exact date and got really flustered. And, I mean, I would probably be flustered too if somebody just called, said that and I, I wasn't. But, uh, I said, you know what goes through my head is what if somebody contacted you knowing you were coming on this show? To say that you were getting uranium to Al Qaeda to sneak into our country to blow us up? A lot of, a lot of people want to see us go to war with Russia.

• 2:32:43Tucker Carlson?

  Did he tell you that Iran was trying to assassinate Donald Trump too?

• 2:32:47Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:32:47Tucker Carlson?

  That's my favorite.

• 2:32:48Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:32:49Tucker Carlson?

  Iran is trying to assassinate Donald Trump.

• 2:32:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:32:52Tucker Carlson?

  Okay.

• 2:32:54Speaker 02

  But, but I called him on it because it didn't fit in the interview and it was almost like shit. I lost my opportunity to insert this into the interview. So now I gotta swing for the fence and just drop it. And it just immediately clicked in my brain. And then I got paranoid again. I'm like, Jeremy, you go, sorry, buddy. You gotta fucking switch your phone out. Like you've been texting with this guy who knows what came in and, um, and, um, but I mean, you, you never really know. It's gonna be a gut instinct, you know? And so, but I wanted to say that out loud.

• 2:33:28Speaker 02

  Because if they're watching, and they probably are, then they know that,

• 2:33:33Speaker 02

  I know that I'm a target.

• 2:33:36Tucker Carlson?

  So I'm a little bit shocked. I sort of knew the rough outlines of your life, but I didn't realize like 20 minutes ago, you were living in Colombia and then you were on the run. I mean, this just happened, not 20 years ago, like seven years ago.

• 2:33:50Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:33:51Tucker Carlson?

  So that's gotta be one of the hardest pivots, one of the most profound transformations I've ever seen. I don't really kind of know anyone who's come this far in a separate direction in such a short period of time. You're not even 50. Where do you think it goes from here?

• 2:34:11Speaker 02

  Who knows, man? Um, I do wanna say something though, you know? I think a lot of people think that kinda shit that I was doing down in Colombia is cool and it's adventurous and yeah, there was a lot of adrenaline and it was a good time.

• 2:34:23Tucker Carlson?

  It was definitely adventurous. Like good or bad. I think we can say that was adventurous.

• 2:34:27Speaker 02

  But, um, you know, it, it was a, I mean, who knows where I would be if I didn't do that? And I would have started this earlier, you know? And, and, um, it's just no way to live and everybody that you think is your friend is fake. And everybody just wants to take advantage of you. And once you get through the initial phase of, oh man, this is like the coolest life. It's the loneliest fucking life that you can lead. And, um, I almost died because of it and several times and, and, um, you know, how would it have turned up if I would have OD'd in one of those penthouses and? My parents, who I love so much and finds out, oh yeah, there's our son, the Navy SEAL CIA contractor,

• 2:35:12Speaker 02

  decomposing in a fucking penthouse in Columbia because he OD'd on cocaine. And that scenario went through my head a lot of times. And so I just, you know, I just, I don't want to encourage anybody to do that. That was a low point in my life and something I'm not proud of.

• 2:35:30Tucker Carlson?

  And you've been a, I would say, pretty vocal advocate for sobriety.

• 2:35:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:35:36Tucker Carlson?

  In this job.

• 2:35:38Tucker Carlson?

  How many guys who work for you are sober?

• 2:35:41Speaker 02

  Almost.

• 2:35:44Speaker 02

  The majority of the team, I think there's two guys that drink.

• 2:35:49Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think sobriety is going to catch on as a way to live?

• 2:35:51Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I think it's already catching. There's a, there's a huge wave. It's like the new thing to do, it seems like.

• 2:35:58Tucker Carlson?

  Truly sober, just like not using pills, alcohol.

• 2:36:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:36:06Tucker Carlson?

  You think we're in the middle of some kind of Christian revival?

• 2:36:10Speaker 02

  Absolutely. A hundred percent. I mean, have you seen, have you seen the baptism parties that are going on at, at colleges? That look like, it looks like it's a kegger, crazy tailgate party and they're baptizing people in the back of the, back of trucks and yeah, I think there's a huge wave going on.

• 2:36:30Tucker Carlson?

  I think so too.

• 2:36:32Speaker 02

  It's cool to see.

• 2:36:34Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think the US government can continue?

• 2:36:37Speaker 02

  Continue what?

• 2:36:39Tucker Carlson?

  To exist. Do you think the current system can continue?

• 2:36:44Speaker 02

  I think it will continue.

• 2:36:46Tucker Carlson?

  You do?

• 2:36:51Tucker Carlson?

  Cause it does feel like we're moving towards something.

• 2:36:55Speaker 02

  Like a one world government?

• 2:36:56Tucker Carlson?

  I'm not sure what, I'm not sure what, but it seems like so much change in a short period of time. The scale's falling for so many people realizing that, you know, what they believed was real is not. Questions people are asking, the resurgence of Christianity in the country. I mean, every, it all seems to be happening at once. And I know, you know, in every age, people think the end is near, but does that ever occur to you?

• 2:37:21Speaker 02

  I think it will, I think it will continue to exist until people no longer have the appetite for it to exist.

• 2:37:34Tucker Carlson?

  You think we're pretty far from that?

• 2:37:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:37:40Speaker 02

  Goes back to critical thinking.

• 2:37:42Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, maybe that's right.

• 2:37:45Tucker Carlson?

  Last question, because I can't resist. I know you spend a lot of your time talking about this, but um having fired every firearm and trained on every firearm.

• 2:37:54Tucker Carlson?

  What are your favorite firearms?

• 2:37:55Speaker 02

  Favorite firearms?

• 2:37:56Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:57Speaker 02

  I like lever actions.

• 2:37:59Tucker Carlson?

  Come on, you're.

• 2:38:00Speaker 02

  Now, I do too. They're my favorite, but like. I mean, I'm tired of all the tactical black gun shit. I mean, that's that was my life for 14 years, you know? And um, but I have a lot of them.

• 2:38:16Speaker 02

  But I don't get excited about them. I get excited about lever actions. Now, if you're gonna ask me, you know, shit, it's the fan. What am I going to? It definitely isn't gonna be my lever action. It's gonna be my AR because I know that like the back of my hand and it's a tool that I'm really good with, so.

• 2:38:33Tucker Carlson?

  But when you shoot for fun with just open sights?

• 2:38:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Open sights. You know what I really like is I don't even know what it's called, but it's a revolver, but it's the uh you know, you lift the little thing up and you have to load it one by one.

• 2:38:50Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, like the 12 shot 22s that they.

• 2:38:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I got a 45 long colt one.

• 2:38:56Tucker Carlson?

  Is it just single action?

• 2:38:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, dude, I love it. I can't hit a damn thing with it, but.

• 2:39:02Tucker Carlson?

  And it's got the pin that you push the.

• 2:39:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:39:04Tucker Carlson?

  The holes out with?

• 2:39:05Speaker 02

  Yes, I love that thing.

• 2:39:08Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 2:39:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:39:09Tucker Carlson?

  Talk about your life going for full circles. You went from like, you know, some high tech Kimber to a single action.

• 2:39:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:39:16Tucker Carlson?

  Cowboy gun.

• 2:39:17Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 2:39:18Tucker Carlson?

  And you went from the AR platform to the lever. What do you what do you prefer? The lever gun chambered in?

• 2:39:24Speaker 02

  357.

• 2:39:27Tucker Carlson?

  I knew I liked you.

• 2:39:27Speaker 02

  357 revolve, same ammo, sidearm and long gun.

• 2:39:31Tucker Carlson?

  That's, that's my, that's my favorite pair, right? And I, I could see beneath the, beneath the fame, I knew that you were the kind of man who preferred 357.

• 2:39:43Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 2:39:44Tucker Carlson?

  A straight wall cartridge, amen. Sean Ryan, thank you very much.

• 2:39:47Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:39:48Tucker Carlson?

  Congratulations.

• 2:39:48Speaker 02

  Thank you. It's an honor being here.

• 2:39:50Tucker Carlson?

  You're one of, you're one of the people, and this is not true for everybody, but every time I see some marker of your like continued success, I am thrilled. I'm thrilled by it and I mean that.

• 2:40:00Speaker 02

  Well, that means a hell of a lot coming from you.

• 2:40:01Tucker Carlson?

  I'm not joking at all. I thought, and part of it is just like my narcissism because I saw you, because my nephew sent me a clip from you and I was like, that guy's really talented. I like knew instantly, I knew you'd be successful.

• 2:40:14Tucker Carlson?

  And the fact that you had no background whatsoever, I didn't quite realize how far you're, you did not go to the Columbia School of Broadcasting. Um, but your, your natural ability to interview people and to listen to them and to empathize with them, I, it just came right off the screen and I was like, that guy's going to be a star and you have been, and I just find it thrilling.

• 2:40:35Speaker 02

  Thank you, Todd.

• 2:40:35Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you.

• 2:40:36Speaker 02

  That means a lot.

• 2:40:37Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you.

• 2:40:37Speaker 02

  And congratulations on all your success as well.

• 2:40:40Tucker Carlson?

  Cyclical. Oh, and Alp, can I just say, I never do this, I'm proud to call this man an Alp user.

• 2:40:50Tucker Carlson?

  Thanks.

• 2:40:50Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 2:40:57Tucker Carlson?

  We want to thank you for watching us on Spotify, a company that we use every day. We know the people who run it, good people. While you're here, do us a favor, hit, follow and tap the bell so you never miss an episode. We have real conversations, news, things that actually matter, telling the truth always. You will not miss it if you follow us on Spotify and hit the bell. We appreciate it. Thanks for watching.