Is Marvin Lewis Returning to the NFL?

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast FOLLOW HAPPY DAD: https://www.instagram.com/happydad FIND HAPPY DAD: https://www.happydad.com/find The next NFL Coach and living in the shadows of famous fathers... Marvin Lewis sits with Ryan, Channing and Fred in a rare and open conversation about life, his long tenure in the NFL and coaching some of the league’s more controversial players over the years. The group is joined by Ryan’s son Jordan - a defensive back for Arizona State University who details what it’s like being the son a star athlete. The inside stories and laughs go from Coach Lewis facing Ryan in division match ups to creating defensive schemes to stop Fred to Channing’s carefree off the field attitude sharing funny personal stories over the years. Marvin talks Super Bowl defense of the Ravens, four decades of coaching and his current stance on whether he will return to the NFL. It’s not easy for black coaches to get another run but he is ready to return and eager to answer the call from a NFL team. Channing asks Marvin about Chad as a player and if any of the antics bothered him while after asks what was the most disappointing thing Chad did as a player. Coach Lewis also sets the record straight about Chad living in the stadium and gives inside perspective to what went on behind the scenes of coaching the infamous wide receiver duo of Chad and Terrell Owens. Having two talented players who happened to be the league’s biggest personalities in the same locker room made for interesting stories in Cincinnati. Marvin, currently working as a Special Advisor to Head Coach Herm Edwards at Arizona State University, is now coaching the next generation of his NFL players which happen to be familiar names. Ocho’s son, Chad Johnson Jr is a wide receiver and Jordan Clark, Ryan’s son, who plays defense for the Sun Devils. Channing refers to Jordan as a trust fund kid because of who his father is and asks if that affects how he carries himself on and off the field. But to their surprise, Fred and Channing are both blown away by Jordan’s maturity and approach to the game while Marvin talks on the similarities and differences between these young men and their fathers as players. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior like beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  Hey, hey.

• 0:30Ryan Clark?

  Hey, man, I saw you last night. You walked by me, man.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  I didn't even notice.

• 0:34Ryan Clark?

  I know, I'm like.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  The math, hey, you would never leave like $285 on the ground, would you, and just walk away from it?

• 0:41Speaker 03

  I thought I had it, man. I ain't gonna lie, I thought it was in the pocket, coach.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  A whole $285?

• 0:46Speaker 03

  A whole $285. I was almost hurt, man.

• 0:48Ryan Clark?

  In college? $285 now, I'm still looking for it.

• 0:50Speaker 03

  I was almost hurting. I was almost hurting.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 0:54Speaker 03

  Coach Prater showed love, though.

• 0:55Fred Taylor?

  So this man right here said, his claim to fame is, he would have knocked me out if he'd have caught me on the field.

• 1:03Channing Crowder?

  I tried to. Anyway, they were telling us we on the bus ride, and they were like, whatever you do, whenever the game's over, win, lose, or draw.

• 1:09Speaker 03

  Get on that bus.

• 1:10Channing Crowder?

  Get straight on the bus.

• 1:11Fred Taylor?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:12Channing Crowder?

  And I'm like, shit, I'm, it's two years ago, so I'm a grown ass man, I'm not getting on no damn bus.

• 1:16Ryan Clark?

  Hey, Channing, you know what you can do? Do this in front of the camera.

• 1:18Speaker 06

  Hold up. Limited, niggas tell me kinda pinning it. I fought the head to witness it. Got my people feeling militant. Way I'm feeling got me up. On the mission got me up. Knowing me, I got the key. On the vision, I can trust, trust. Limited, niggas tell me kinda pinning it. I fought the head to witness it. Got my people feeling militant. Way I'm feeling got me up. On the mission got me up.

• 1:43Ryan Clark?

  I mean, we're back again, bro, and I figured we classed the joint up, right? And that's why we got Marvin Lewis on here, and we set him next to Channing, right? Because we needed to balance that off, Mar. We needed to get somebody with some dang sense, right? And sit him in one of these seats and make it work. But, Coach, listen, you coached in the league for a ton of time, had a lot of success. What's the most fun, though, you ever had, Coach?

• 2:06Speaker 01

  I think, you know, obviously, when you win the Super Bowl, and when you see people do things that people didn't think they could, they doubted them. And I think, to me, that was the most fun. I mean, I, I tell people the story that, you know, I would always have a video on Saturday night, and that one was...

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Gladiator.

• 2:29Ryan Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  And literally, the theme of that was Gladiator.

• 2:32Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  And I had an article from beginning of the season when this newspaper man in Baltimore talked about how we were underachieving.

• 2:40Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  And this dude, this dude, this dude, and I remember reading in the article and had to glider. And I remember walking out after the pregame meal to the buses going to the stadium in Tampa. And Ray was sitting there watching that movie by himself.

• 2:53Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  And you know, I mean, that's the thing, you know, the things that we did, Trent Dilfer having been with the Bucks and win a Super Bowl in Tampa.

• 3:01Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  You know, I used, you know.

• 3:02Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  I mean, you can't, you can't make that up, you know, so guys like that.

• 3:06Ryan Clark?

  And the thing too, the, the way y'all won it, right, you being a defensive coach, like, don't nobody remember that Super Bowl because of Trent Dilfer? Like, and I get it, it was nice that he was on the team, but to excel at what y'all were doing, you know, especially being on a team that won a Super Bowl because of a defense, that had to be great too.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Well, it was, and because of those guys and how they, they all got there a different way.

• 3:28Ryan Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  When we drafted Ray in 96 and then the next year, Peter Bolware and Sharper, you know, Darren Sharper goes to Super Bowl. So those dudes always went to the Super Bowl with Darren. I'm like, man, y'all gotta keep swinging off Darren all the time, man. Y'all need to go learn. You know, you need to go suck the knowledge out of those players, you know, from Green Bay. Well, how are they doing this? And, and they did that, you know, they took it on their own to do that.

• 3:52Ryan Clark?

  And, and coach, that's at Baltimore, then you get the, the big, you're the big man in Cincy.

• 3:57Fred Taylor?

  But that's the problem that I have. You know, you jump to Cincy. We gotta talk about Baltimore's defense more though. This is the best defense in NFL history.

• 4:09Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 4:09Channing Crowder?

  I mean, it was.

• 4:10Fred Taylor?

  That, that, no, no, no.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Now you're gonna hurt.

• 4:12Fred Taylor?

  See, he's at Pittsburgh still, right?

• 4:13Speaker 01

  You're gonna hurt our C's.

• 4:14Fred Taylor?

  We already know his pushback.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  I went to Pittsburgh, but, but I took something from everybody.

• 4:19Fred Taylor?

  You did.

• 4:20Ryan Clark?

  He started in Pittsburgh.

• 4:22Fred Taylor?

  Linebacker coach in Pittsburgh.

• 4:23Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, he started in Pittsburgh.

• 4:25Fred Taylor?

  Idaho State in 81.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:26Fred Taylor?

  Right?

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Idaho State, yes.

• 4:27Fred Taylor?

  Forty years.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:29Fred Taylor?

  Forty years of coach. So it started at Idaho State, linebackers coach in Pittsburgh, Steel Curtain, Baltimore, 2000 defense.

• 4:38Fred Taylor?

  I played against the Ravens defense. I know what they're about.

• 4:41Channing Crowder?

  Gosh, you're so old.

• 4:41Fred Taylor?

  You got two Hall of, you got two Hall of Famers from that defense and Ray and Rod Woodson. Amazing players.

• 4:48Channing Crowder?

  He's more a Pittsburgh Steeler though.

• 4:50Fred Taylor?

  Stop it, bro. Stop it.

• 4:53Channing Crowder?

  Wave that damn towel, don't you?

• 4:55Fred Taylor?

  The towel is something. Those fans is crazy. That towel is, I know what he's talking about. I played against them. But I always tell people about the old AFC Central, you know, when you coached that defense, you the coordinator there.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  You and Eddie George and Corey Dillon.

• 5:11Fred Taylor?

  Yeah. So you fall into my trap, right? So I'm setting this up perfectly because you're here and they always talk about the Hall of Fame and if I should be in there or not. You've coached against all of us. Corey Dillon, Jerome Bettis, Eddie George, myself, a lot of backs. I need your top three.

• 5:31Channing Crowder?

  Oh, hey.

• 5:32Fred Taylor?

  And you don't have to put me in it. Because I'm in here.

• 5:35Channing Crowder?

  He been dribbling this ball up the court.

• 5:37Fred Taylor?

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:38Channing Crowder?

  Hey, wait in the door by the rim.

• 5:40Fred Taylor?

  When I knew this was gonna be an interview, right?

• 5:42Speaker 01

  No, I would put you in it. There's no question about it. I gotta.

• 5:46Channing Crowder?

  I agree with that.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  I gotta put Jerome in it, you know?

• 5:48Channing Crowder?

  Okay.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  I mean, you know, when you think about it, I mean, you know, you guys made me have to change how we coach defense.

• 5:55Fred Taylor?

  A hundred percent.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  You know, and, and that's the thing that, that matters when you gotta go stop somebody like that. And then when you put Keenan and Jimmy Smith outside, it made it more difficult.

• 6:07Fred Taylor?

  So did you lose a lot of sleep?

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I lost a lot of sleep.

• 6:10Fred Taylor?

  Big Goose, Big Sam.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  In fact, well, yeah, I mean, Brian said, I'm tired of losing games, 16, 15, wherever we lost to y'all.

• 6:19Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  In 2000.

• 6:21Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  And then the next game was 38, 35. I said, how you like that?

• 6:26Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, that's the truth.

• 6:27Channing Crowder?

  From a coach's standpoint though, that's interesting because the X's and O's of it is one thing. I throw you in there Fred, because you, you want some love, so we'll give you some love.

• 6:37Fred Taylor?

  I'm gonna give you some love.

• 6:37Channing Crowder?

  A guy like Buzz, Freddie T.

• 6:41Channing Crowder?

  Eddie George, like, what do you tell your players when you go against a guy like that? Because they're running a zone, they're running, they're running a power, like, we know what they're running. What do you tell your team to stop Freddie from hitting you for 80?

• 6:53Speaker 01

  Well, you can't let him run downhill. That was real, especially with him though. You can't let him run downhill. We gotta let him, make him go sideways. Yep.

• 7:01Fred Taylor?

  And I hated going sideways.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  We gotta, we gotta do a good job of gap control, and we can't let him go downhill. We gotta make him go sideways when we get a chance to, to put a force on him all the time.

• 7:11Channing Crowder?

  And then when a dude start hitting you, Freddie, one of them dudes hit you for 100 in the first half. Something like that, Coach, like, is it coaching? Or, hey, guys, hit him lower, hit him higher? What do you, what do you say when Freddie hits you for 200?

• 7:27Speaker 01

  It's probably, you know, it's probably a combination of everything. It was probably lack of tackling.

• 7:32Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yes, sir.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  A lack of getting them to the right spots and everything. It's, it's everything. But, you know, when, you know, defenses play with 11 guys, you know, you guys know that, you know, you can't play defense, it ain't just the D-line, ain't just the linebackers, I mean, DB's gotta tackle, everybody gotta do their job, or else you're gonna not be a very good defender.

• 7:49Fred Taylor?

  That was always my issue, you know, you look at the NFL and how things go, and you did 16 years in Cincinnati, correct? You know, and, and you can't control how, how the game turns out at the end of the day. You put in your package, you hope that everybody's prepared, you know, they study, and they're gonna come there and do their assignments and play. But this person could be out of his lane, his gap integrity, anything can happen. Missed tackle, turnovers, all that stuff adds up. But it always comes back to the head man.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 8:21Fred Taylor?

  At the very end of the day, and I've always been a fan of yours.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  That's the job, though. That's the job.

• 8:25Fred Taylor?

  I've always rooted for you, right? Even now, and with all these different coaching, these jobs that are available.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Well, I, I, you know, everybody knows, I want to coach, you know?

• 8:37Fred Taylor?

  That's what I want to hear.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  When, when, when I was done with the 18 season, you know, there's a lot of things go through your head, what to do, you know, and I kind of did the... A little bit of the TV circuit and everything and they said, well, he still wants to coach. So we're not going to really, we don't want to invest anything in him.

• 8:52Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, because he knows he'll leave.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  And then, but then you hear, you know, I had five years, well, we're not sure how committed he is. I am, I mean, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now if I wasn't committed to doing it. I just spent 15, 16 hours a day with our guys, you know, with AP and Antonio Pierce, who I'm, you know, proud to have had opportunity to coach. But to see him do what he's doing right now and me to help him every way I can and Coach Edwards every way I can, that's why I'm doing what I'm doing.

• 9:19Channing Crowder?

  And funny, funny thing you say, AP, he stopped me from fighting one day at the Super Bowl. AP's a good man. I was in the club and somebody tried me, Coach, and I was about to, I was about to tear their ass up.

• 9:29Ryan Clark?

  So he was going to win though for sure.

• 9:31Channing Crowder?

  AP, I'm a sensitive guy, Coach, but I'm also 6'3", 250, so I know I'm on top of a lot of that. So, so with that too, Coach, but we brushed past Cincy, you know, to where, so I got to go back. Fred, you brought it back, I'll bring it back. Coach, what went wrong in Cincy?

• 9:47Speaker 01

  I don't, you know, what went wrong is you, you got to keep, you got to, you got to stay healthy. I mean, in, in 18, we're winning the division at the bye. I mean, literally winning the division. I can't remember who we beat the, the game before. And I have a dinner for the captains on Monday night and their wives. And this dude, number 18, walks in with his boot on. I'm like, wait a second, man, what's going on? And then the next week, that quarterback gets hurt. He breaks a bone in his, his hand. And, and when you start losing players and you can't, you know, I always tell people, when you lose that starting quarterback now, that field gets to be about 120.

• 10:22Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  You know, some of these quarterbacks make the field about 60, 70 yards. Was that your best? But when you lose your starter.

• 10:27Ryan Clark?

  Wait, people forget though, the year Pittsburgh wins the Super Bowl, they don't win the AFC North.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Well, we went in the playoffs three times without the quarterback, you know, or Carson went in that year, but twice in 15, and then another time we went in without Andy. And that's, it's different, you know, you gotta, and that's part of coaching, it's part of what you gotta do. Uh, that's one of the things I probably learned in 08 when Carson got hurt, that I needed to adjust. Ryan Fitzpatrick was our starting quarterback.

• 10:53Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  I learned so much from that.

• 10:55Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  That we, we kept waiting that Carson was coming back, Carson was coming back, well, no. We should adjust it to Ryan, because obviously Ryan can win games in the National Football League.

• 11:03Fred Taylor?

  And he's still doing it.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  And he's still, yeah, he's still playing.

• 11:05Fred Taylor?

  And, and that's the biggest thing about NFL, especially today's NFL hell, even in college with COVID and all this other stuff. Speaking of that, I don't know if he's one of your favorite players, Chad.

• 11:17Ryan Clark?

  Chad's supposed to be here.

• 11:18Fred Taylor?

  Chad's supposed to be here.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Well, that's, there's.

• 11:21Channing Crowder?

  He's, he's a little, he's a little under the weather. He's probably at McDonald's. You know what, we gotta ask him about that.

• 11:27Fred Taylor?

  We, we do.

• 11:27Channing Crowder?

  Chad, what he does, how he was.

• 11:30Fred Taylor?

  So we, we definitely got a few things for you.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  He, so first time I meet this dude, 85, I don't know, and this other dude with a ponytail. I don't know, you know, I mean, I coached against him, I'm sorry, I didn't know names, I knew numbers. That's what I knew about guys. And, uh, but I take him with me to this school to talk about, uh, you know, we made a visit. And, and I'm like, hey, y'all ever do much? He says, no, coach, we don't, we don't do that. I go, why? Cause we don't win enough. I said, well, we gotta fix that.

• 11:59Ryan Clark?

  Right, yeah.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  And, but he, they tell me their story, man, man, y'all so lucky to get to the National Football League. Telling their story from high school and through diff, three different high schools and three different colleges and, I mean, just Juco, Juco, Oregon State for two months and, you know, in the NFL.

• 12:15Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  But he, football's all he had. And literally, I'd be working at night in my office and I could feel somebody in the door and I look up and it was Chad. You know, you know, he told everybody he was limited, he went to Linda State, but he was there all the time.

• 12:29Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  He was right up the street.

• 12:30Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  You know, and he was there all the time. Him, he would, him and Carson, they would go over to Indy, Indy had a Monday night game, and they would watch Peyton and them dudes warm up. I mean, cause that's how they were into it. You know, they were into it and they wanted to be good. And, and, and that was a fun time for all of them. And, uh, you know, and I was blessed to have them, you know, uh, as a player. And then, you know, now we got young Chad on the team and. The one thing Chad Johnson, you know, he could track the football, man. That ball would go up and he could track, and I see that from his son, and it's really cool to see. That's amazing. You know, that how young Chad Jr. Can track that ball and make the, and his great hands can catch the football. Now, he don't have all his other bad habits daddy.

• 13:16Channing Crowder?

  There we go, bad. I like you say bad, Coach. I like you say bad.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  But, but like, senior would never miss a day. Right, right. And junior, I said, hey, man, something missing between you and your daddy, you know, because he had a little tummy ache.

• 13:27Fred Taylor?

  You ever try to convince Chad to not go to McDonald's as much as he did?

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, we tried to teach Chad how to do things right, you know, but to his credit, you know, he, he, he did. He worked his tail. Football was his deal.

• 13:40Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  You know, I tried to, you know, but man, what are you thinking? Right. You can't do this. I mean, one day he was trying to tell me, you know, he showed me this, I said, man, you out your mind.

• 13:49Fred Taylor?

  Did he tell you he was changing his name before he did it?

• 13:51Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I heard about it.

• 13:53Channing Crowder?

  What was that conversation?

• 13:54Ryan Clark?

  What was that conversation like?

• 13:55Channing Crowder?

  What was that conversation?

• 13:56Ryan Clark?

  Like, what's your, what's your, what, Coach? I'm gonna change my name to Ocho Cinco.

• 14:00Channing Crowder?

  Legally.

• 14:00Ryan Clark?

  Legally.

• 14:01Fred Taylor?

  Because the league didn't mess around then.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Well, yes, see, because that was the thing, that's how it came off, because he was trying to get them to change jersey, and they wouldn't change jersey. Okay. And that was the thing, because properties then, you know, wouldn't change jersey, it was different then, than now. And so he had to legally do it, wait the year, and then go and do all that, and, uh, but the, the, the thing that he most upset me with was the whole Hall of Fame jacket, and that went, you know, that, that upset me, because I, to me, that wasn't fair to the Hall of Famers.

• 14:28Fred Taylor?

  Correct.

• 14:29Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  Because I said, you can get there, but, but that's not how you do that.

• 14:33Ryan Clark?

  When you get that coat, you get that, you earn that coat, and so I could get that.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  You know, he, he would, and we'd be playing somebody, and he would, I mean, he would give them the business. Right. I mean, he did, he would go and compete and give people the business.

• 14:45Ryan Clark?

  Coach, were you there, were you there, because I can't remember the year, when he killed Champ?

• 14:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:51Ryan Clark?

  And Champ, that's the first time I ever heard Champ mad or cuss or anything.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:55Ryan Clark?

  And that's when Champ was like, nah, I'm the best motherf* in the world still.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:58Ryan Clark?

  But Chad were absolutely crazy.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  But, and I, and I have, his son has a picture of him catching the ball.

• 15:04Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  On Champ.

• 15:05Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  Cause it was in the, in my house in Cincinnati, in, in our workout room, you know? And, I mean, it, it's just, it, it was amazing. Cause you know, I had the pleasure of coaching Champ. So I knew how good Champ Bayless was.

• 15:17Ryan Clark?

  Correct.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  You know, from the time Champ came out of Georgia, I knew about Champ.

• 15:21Channing Crowder?

  Champ was a dog, coach, so you say the only one that got you was the Hall of Fame jacket? So him, him, him pulling out the money and trying to hand it to the ref? Oh, you, we, we know Ocho, Ocho's the dude.

• 15:30Ryan Clark?

  Proposing to the cheerleader.

• 15:31Channing Crowder?

  Proposing with the, like, not, you, you, as a head coach.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  That was off the field. So he wasn't gonna get in trouble.

• 15:37Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  But the thing before the game, that, that wasn't cool. And he got a little kid fired, you know, a little ball boy got fired for, I mean, you know, I mean. He did, he got, he got some, you know, 18 year old kid fired off his job from the sideline for doing something crazy.

• 15:52Fred Taylor?

  But you had, you had to deal with Ocho Cinco and Terrell.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh.

• 15:58Ryan Clark?

  At one time?

• 15:59Speaker 01

  At one time. And you know, and I, we, we, let me back up. Well, you were talking about Corey early. In 2003, I remember telling Corey Dillon in training camp, you are better than I knew you were.

• 16:12Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  And you were damn good.

• 16:13Fred Taylor?

  Very good.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  You were the last in Baltimore, you know, we didn't give up 100 yard rushing games. We went almost two years without giving up it, and he would've been the last one to get it. And I said that to him, and To, same thing, man. I remember coaching against To in 03, and then on Monday or Tuesday, I had to do a spot for NFL Network, and he was sitting in the studio, like, oh my gosh. This dude had just went for 200 on me.

• 16:36Ryan Clark?

  Right, right.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  And, and he's sitting in the studio again interviewing me. And I just like, you know, and he, he was, he was really a good player.

• 16:44Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  And.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Terrell was just so misunderstood all the time.

• 16:51Fred Taylor?

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  You know, and sometimes it was his own fault, his own doing, you know. But, but that was the thing is, is he, I mean, he could really play. I mean, he had a month of October that year that he had 150-plus yards in like three or four games in a row, and then he broke his hand. And, and that was the end. But, uh, when you get a chance to coach against somebody, then he's on your squad, and you get to watch him practice day in and day out, you're like, wow.

• 17:15Fred Taylor?

  How, how were Chad and, and T.O. at practice? Like, did they, did they, like, cause they, they meshed well together.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:24Fred Taylor?

  You didn't, you don't see, you know, a lot of other receivers, they, I want the ball, I want the ball.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  They were competitive.

• 17:29Fred Taylor?

  They, they had, naturally, that's in them.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  They were naturally competitive.

• 17:32Fred Taylor?

  But you never heard anything about this guy, you know, in the media saying, I don't get enough passes because he's getting the pass. They're best of friends now, today.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  They were, they were, they were friends. I mean, the Super Bowl was in Miami that year, and I happened to go to some function, and being in the back of the crowd, and them two went up on the stage. Yeah. And started, you know, trying to sell this package.

• 17:55Fred Taylor?

  Correct.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  And, uh, but, you know, you, you get blessed to, to be around people like that, you know, to be around.

• 18:01Fred Taylor?

  But that's all energy, though.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  Cause I mean, training camp was sold out every day. It was, it was ridiculous.

• 18:05Channing Crowder?

  To that part of coaching, because X and O is what you do, you say 16, 17 hours, watching film and doing all that, trying to adjust to those dudes' personalities. Speaking of T.O. and Chad, and just like, even now, even now in college, everything you, you coach, like, how much do you put on top of do your job, run this route to trying to figure out a player's personality, trying to figure out how I can get this guy? Like, what's the breakdown in that?

• 18:31Speaker 01

  I had to be specific with Terrell. I can tell you that. I had to be specific. I mean, there was a time, we lost the game. We, we lost the game, we were winning the game, and Terrell didn't go inside on an end break, and they intercept the ball, and they end up getting the touchdown, go down, score, beat us. And we're like, what just happened? So after the game, you know, everybody's like, what just happened? So I had this bright idea on, on Wednesday, I'm gonna bring everybody in the locker room, we're gonna start the day in the locker room, just like we finished this last game, right? So I called Terrell in, Terrell comes in Monday, we go through it, but I have the thing. Tuesday, he would come in and get a workout, because you know he loves to workout. So I was downstairs, I call him, come upstairs. He's like, are you gonna cut me?

• 19:15Speaker 01

  I go, no, I'm not gonna cut you. It was day Randy Moss get cut. Oh, it make you feel that way, listen. It's one of those things like when Peyton, they let go of Peyton, I was like, shoot, anybody can get it. You know what I'm saying? They let go of Randy, you like, shoot, anybody can get it. So he's like, you going, I said, no, I'm not gonna cut you. But come on, I want to talk to you about something, I said. So we're gonna start the day, just like we finished it. But we're gonna start at 8:25, or whatever the time was, a little bit, five minutes early. So that I don't hold, you know, we can get to the Wednesday installs. And I said, Terrell, I want to start everybody in the locker room. And I knew every week, he would, every, because I knew what time everybody got to work. He'd come in 8:20, he would walk through, he would go in the locker room, he would get out of his stuff, put on his bangle issue.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  He'd go in the dining area, he'd grab a McMuffin, or whatever he was gonna get for breakfast, and he'd come in the team meeting. Well, I told everybody we was gonna start a little early. Well, I go downstairs, I got everybody in there, the coaches, and the receivers coach looking at me like. He ain't here.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  So, so I go ahead, when the time comes, I go ahead and start, and I look over my shoulder, and 30 seconds later, here he comes.

• 20:19Fred Taylor?

  He come in the building.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  And, and, and, you know, and afterwards, you know, I went through my whole spiel and everything, and the receiver coach said, I'm sorry, man. He says, I go, Coach, don't worry, it's my fault. I forgot specific to tell Terrell that I wanted him there at 8:22. Not that I was gonna start early. Yeah. So I learned a lesson. Yeah. You know, I learned a lesson, you know?

• 20:41Fred Taylor?

  Those lessons, you, you know, you, you take and you, you know, you carry them to all the young men, you know, here. You're working with ASU, Coach Edwards, Herm. My, my thing is this, you know, these, these kids, they need these foundations, you've seen everything. Been in NFL all those years, 16 in Cincinnati, 6 in Baltimore, and then Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh 4, right? For in Pittsburgh. So you have so, so, so much to give back to these kids on this level. Do they listen? Do they listen?

• 21:17Speaker 01

  You hit on something right away Fred. First thing we tell them is you are not the first person that's been through this.

• 21:23Fred Taylor?

  A hundred percent.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  There, we got six people in the room that's been through this can help you. So don't think you gotta solve this on your own. And, and not, I don't think enough of them listen long enough.

• 21:34Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  You know, because it gets to be, I gotta go, no, no, we can help you do this. This is why and so forth. And, and obviously playing football at Arizona State, you have aspirations to move on to the National Football League. And you should, or we shouldn't be recruiting you. I mean, that's part of the deal. That's what we want. And so we're there to help you. We're there to help prepare you how to study, how to meet, how to eat, how to sleep, how to go about doing everything to be a student athlete. It can't be set up any better than that. But the football part, we're gonna make sure when you walk into an NFL team, it ain't gonna be the first time you know how to take notes and highlighter and, and be prepared and how to eat and how to go to bed at night, you know, put, get, get off your device, go to bed.

• 22:18Ryan Clark?

  Is it way different in the sense that obviously when you're dealing with the grown men who understand this is how they feed their families? Right? And there, there are strict rules and you can cut guys and fine guys, but it's not that same dynamic.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:30Ryan Clark?

  In college, you know, you more, you are teaching and you have to be kind of more accepting of the growing pains and the learning. Is that hard for you after being in the league for so long?

• 22:38Speaker 01

  Well, it's, you have to learn patience. You really do. Because you know, the, the backgrounds that everybody comes from, which we know that once they get to the league is different. But it, but it's even different, it's more different now because of their upbringing and so forth. And you're trying to explain that to them. But the other thing, the analogy that I use is when you're in junior high school, everybody leaves high school, so they open up some seats. When you go to college, everybody leaves college or high school, goes to college, there's some more seats in that high school. In the NFL, everybody hold on to their seat.

• 23:09Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, hell yeah. That's my seat.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:11Ryan Clark?

  Straight up.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  That's my seat.

• 23:12Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  You know, I'm getting this seat.

• 23:14Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  You know?

• 23:15Channing Crowder?

  Oh, she says something and. I wanted to ask that where guys get a league at 21, 22. They get to college at 17, 18. That's not a big difference. Like, you've seen the 17-year-old kid, but 21 is four years off.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's maturity.

• 23:33Fred Taylor?

  Right. You can mature so much in that amount of time.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  There's a lot to be learned, man. I mean, you know, I was so, you know, obviously blessed with the dudes I had since then. One of them, Whitworth, still playing for the Rams. And I say, I want you to look around the room.

• 23:45Ryan Clark?

  By the way, Channing, Fred, it's an LSU guy, by the way. Odious starting left tackle to ever play.

• 23:52Channing Crowder?

  Coach, you've got so much damn pride in that raggedy-ass LSU Pittsburgh guy.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  I know, we get it.

• 23:57Channing Crowder?

  It's football. He does, he does.

• 23:59Ryan Clark?

  We're just trying to make a point, guys. Trying to make a point.

• 24:02Channing Crowder?

  Look, that difference. Seeing a freshman come in versus a rookie come in, it's a big difference.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  There's a huge difference. I mean, you gotta tell them, look around the room, who's been here the longest. That's who you want to do everything like. That's how you want to, to train, to study, to eat, that's who you've got to be with.

• 24:20Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a superior-like beer. It's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser-Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 24:49Fred Taylor?

  So, before we bring one of your players in, right? This is my question to you. I've been saving this, saving this, saving this. Hugh Jackson. Grambling State. You're involved on a level where you got all of the resources. You have the recruiting, everything is narrowed down to a science. It's not so much that way. You know, for HBCUs. You know, Hugh, he loves coaching. Like you say, you still want to coach. You know, and he wants to get back in coaching. And I don't think that it's a fair shuffle of the deck when it involves black coaches. I, I just gotta say.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  I agree a hundred percent.

• 25:29Fred Taylor?

  You know, with those opportunities. And, and I think Hugh can coach in the NFL. Much like I think you should still be an NFL coach in NFL. And, you know, Jacksonville, they have a, there was a spot open.

• 25:40Ryan Clark?

  No, be straight, but be, be straight up.

• 25:42Fred Taylor?

  I'm being straight up.

• 25:43Ryan Clark?

  Like a.

• 25:44Fred Taylor?

  I'm being straight up.

• 25:44Ryan Clark?

  A, a, a, a white coach that coaches that long at one place, when he leaves, he gets, he gets an opportunity.

• 25:51Fred Taylor?

  The apple doesn't fall far from its tree.

• 25:52Ryan Clark?

  He gets an opportunity right there. There, there, there are times where they get to fail up.

• 25:56Fred Taylor?

  Right, right back in it.

• 25:57Ryan Clark?

  A hundred percent.

• 25:58Fred Taylor?

  And that's just the way it goes. But, you know, this is really about Hugh and his challenges. But the fact that he loves coaches and he loves these, and he loves coaching and he loves these kids.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  We had that conversation last year before we went to Tennessee State. I said, bro, you're doing this because you're showing people you just want to coach.

• 26:15Ryan Clark?

  Yes.

• 26:16Fred Taylor?

  Bingo.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  That's why you're doing it.

• 26:17Ryan Clark?

  Real talk. Right.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  And, and this year, when another university reached out to him, reached out to me and asked me if he may be interested. I said, well, I don't know that, but you gotta ask him. And then the Grambling State job came about as well. And I said, that's the thing, but you gotta make that determination. And in my opinion, like you said, friend, I don't think it's fair. So, I meet Hugh Jackson, he graduated from Pacific College. I coached against Hugh Jackson. He was a quarterback at Pacific.

• 26:40Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  All right. I know him when he's a running back coach at USC. You know, and I'm going there in, in nineteen ninety-six, ninety-seven, before the draft, when they got Darryl, uh, the big defensive lineman coming out from there. And I'm there, you know, when I'm with the Ravens, and I'm there. And then later on, I watch him coach the running backs with the Washington Redskins, Stephen. And, and the dudes he had there and how he handled that room. And then. Coach promotes him, Coach Spurrier promotes him the next year, but then Coach Spurrier is gone. And I bring him to Cincinnati, coaching the receivers. Chad, TJ, Chris Hannah, these guys, and help them not only as players, but grow as men.

• 27:21Fred Taylor?

  As men.

• 27:22Ryan Clark?

  Being able to have that type of relationship that allows you to do that is huge.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  With the guys in Washington, I watched this from afar, because I'm there, you know, just grinding, doing my thing. And I'm watching how he's coaching and handling these kids on the other side of the ball, in that running back room and so forth. And then, you know, he leaves me to go to Atlanta, be a coordinator, okay, with Coach Petrino. That doesn't go, he ends up in Baltimore, quarterback coach with Flacco. When Flacco's a rookie.

• 27:49Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Started a rookie quarterback. All right, they go to playoffs, two years there, come to Oakland, all right, be the OC, and then next year be the head coach.

• 27:59Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  Beat every division team, go 8-8, and lose your job.

• 28:02Ryan Clark?

  Lose your job.

• 28:03Channing Crowder?

  And Coach, how do you feel about, and the race thing something, because Hugh, you know, we tight with Hugh, you know, and that Herm, yourself, Hugh, I know y'all all tight and y'all, you know, watch out for each other. But just these young coaches that get these jobs over a vet, that's been doing this 40 years, Fred just did the math, 40 years, and not even taking shots at anybody. Brandon Staley, Dan Campbell, Urban Myers goofy ass, just got fired. Like, oh, yeah, Herm, you know, Marvin has said, but like, these young-

• 28:35Fred Taylor?

  He can't help himself.

• 28:35Channing Crowder?

  I can't help myself.

• 28:36Fred Taylor?

  I apologize.

• 28:37Channing Crowder?

  That's why I told you earlier, you know, I gotta let you know.

• 28:39Ryan Clark?

  That's why I let you class him up a little bit, Coach.

• 28:41Channing Crowder?

  But Coach, these veteran coaches that know, that's done it, that's been to the playoffs, what, seven, eight times?

• 28:48Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, seven times.

• 28:49Channing Crowder?

  In your venture, you know, seven times, and they hire these young, you know, these young, genius football analytical minds. How do you feel about that old vet coach, yourself, versus these young guys that they're trying to figure out if they know something? Bring in a guy that knows it, not a guy that you can figure out if he knows it.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  Don't say old, same experience. I like to say season. I mean, I mean, that's what it is. You're, you're gonna be better your next time around. Even, and in 16 years, we had to reinvent, I don't know how many times. We had to reinvent, restart, and, and do things, because you can't be the same. You've gotta change. You gotta change with the times. We had to learn how to, to train them different. We had to train and learn how to feed them different. Because the colleges are doing it that way. So we had to do that. I mean, when, when, when API started back in, in, in Scottsdale, I'm at API in 04, trying to figure out how they're doing, because everybody wants to, doesn't want to come to offseason workout. They want to go there. They want to go to these places. And so we had to change and train the guys like they do, because that was what they wanted to be like.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  And then Luke ended up, you know, in Jacksonville after that. So you have to adjust and change. And that, and that's the thing. You, should I, and I had to, I bring you back, he coaches on defense. When we draft, Drayk or Patrick, he was coaching the secondary when Mike Zimmer's the coordinator. He's helping coach the cornerbacks, you know?

• 30:06Ryan Clark?

  I think people don't understand that like coaches like bounce around and try to coach.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  Phil Brandt told me that a long time ago. Coaches can coach.

• 30:12Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  Coaches can, because they can teach. You're a master teacher. Bill Walsh, when he started the fellowship program, that's what he talked to me about when he brought me in for an interview, about how he hired college coaches, because he felt they were master teachers. And because they had to reach down and they had to bring it out of the players, or else we don't got a job.

• 30:30Ryan Clark?

  Right. You mentioned like reinventing yourself, uh, since you were there 16 years. And I happen to understand culture changes and, and, and the way training was changing. You know, this show is called The Pivot, and we all kind of talk about different things in life that made us transition, made us change, made, made us look at things different ways. Throughout your career or your life, what do you think was the most difficult pivot, uh, for you to make?

• 30:53Speaker 01

  I think every year you adjust, but I think that. I had to make a transition on offense because I felt like we weren't getting the young player immersed in the offense quick enough. And so I did a lot of research. I talked to my friends, you know, I talked to Dirk Cutter, I talked to Andy Reid, talked to guys on offense, Mike Shepard, who was one of my guys, about what kind of offense. And he said, well, you probably should go to this kind of system. Then I started researching. Brad Schorjerson and we talked. And that's when I ended up hiring, and John Gruden. John did a Monday, we had a Monday night game against the Steelers, actually. So John would always come in early. So we spent the day together on Sunday.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  We're in there watching tape and doing this and he's giving me his analysis and everything. And so, literally, I'm bouncing ideas off these guys and that's when I ended up hiring Jay Gruden. I got you. And I thought that was a big change for me because I had to let go of a coach that I've been friends with since 1982, when I got into coaching. And I helped him get a job. He was there in Cincinnati when I got the job and I kept him there. You know, and these are your friends. And like my boss, Mike Brown, he used to always tell me, Marvin, these are good people. I said, Coach, Mike, so are the rest of these people. They're all good. Right. That's right. And, you know, and I believe that about, you know, it was my job as the coach to always

• 32:21Speaker 01

  help the coaches as much as I can because you hate to have to change a coach. You know, and I always thought it was my failure when I had to make a change with coaches because I didn't do a good enough job bringing enough out of them the right way. And I think that's the, that's the biggest thing as a head coach is you got to do it because you're responsible for everybody and not only, I mean, it's in the building. I mean, because sometimes when the head coach is gone, shoot, they might get the equipment staff, they might get the video staff, they might get everybody. I mean, they might get everybody. And so everybody's hanging on you. And so, you know, you owe it to everybody to have that opportunity to be successful.

• 33:00Fred Taylor?

  Have you gotten any calls?

• 33:02Speaker 01

  I haven't gotten calls this year, you know, I spoke with three teams last year. And I think this last week, they might have won two games, so I think they're up to eight collectively for the three. But, you know, I mean, that's the thing, this is, you know, you know, people make decisions, and I see that. They're gonna make decisions the way they wanna make decisions. But, but I really wanna coach, you know, I enjoy what I do. I enjoy working with these young people, and I enjoy also working with the coaches. I wanna help coaches. I mean, that's part of, you know, why I'm doing this too. Is I wanna help coaches move forward and be able to reach their goals. You know, that I was able to, and I was blessed to have good coaches that became head coaches.

• 33:45Channing Crowder?

  Coach, what's the, all of us are retired now. The entire league, 32 teams told all of us, you're not good enough anymore. We don't want you to play safety.

• 33:54Fred Taylor?

  They retired, I ain't retired. For me, it's a career change.

• 33:57Channing Crowder?

  Fred, you 58 years old, Fred.

• 33:59Fred Taylor?

  If this is, if this is what retirement feels like, I ain't never [bleep] retired. It's a career, it's a career change.

• 34:07Ryan Clark?

  And you already know for him though, like dude think he can still play. Like Fred has, Fred has never told a story about his career where he lost. Like every time I hear him tell, he's never like, man, yeah, that guy got me. Or, yeah, this happened, and you know, I was playing against Marv's defense, and they did a great job.

• 34:23Channing Crowder?

  Fred 280 and 0 in his mind.

• 34:24Fred Taylor?

  Nah, nah, that's not true. That's not true. The point I'm trying to make is, for me, it's been a career change. I left the NFL at 35. Ain't no [bleep] way I'm retired, I'm not retired. This is [bleep] work. We're having a conversation, but this is work.

• 34:39Ryan Clark?

  This is not work.

• 34:41Fred Taylor?

  This is work.

• 34:41Ryan Clark?

  We're talking about football, Fred.

• 34:43Fred Taylor?

  I don't care about all that [bleep]. I'm talking, I don't like that word.

• 34:47Ryan Clark?

  That's what I finished.

• 34:48Channing Crowder?

  Oh, but Coach, when do coaches age out? Cause my knees, my knees were shot. You know what I'm saying, something happens, like I started having knee surgery. Does a coach age out?

• 35:00Speaker 01

  I think when you, when, when you don't look forward to the grind.

• 35:03Ryan Clark?

  Mm-hmm, yeah.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  I mean, that's the thing. When you don't look forward to the grind, you're like, it's like my mom, you know, mom said, "Do you have to go in today?" When I call her, you know, "Where you at work?" I said, "Mom, I go in, cause this is what we do."

• 35:15Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  You know, there's not a have to, this is a want to. I was in there, you know, making sure we were set for the walk.

• 35:21Ryan Clark?

  That's what you do.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  Cause that's what we do. And when you don't wanna do that anymore, when you don't wake up at 4:30 and go to work. You know, that's when you know that it's over.

• 35:32Fred Taylor?

  That's a perfect segue into, you know, what I want to say because before we started, we talking about this one kid that that's just frivolously misplacing or mishandling $285. Yeah, that's, that is strange. We always talk about the grind and motivation and Jordan Clark, Ryan's son, right? His dad is one of the faces of ESPN and everything else. He's amazing at what he does. He's a great safety for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  I used to try to prick his brain. This is studying.

• 36:08Channing Crowder?

  Please let it hold for a quick. Please tell this story.

• 36:11Fred Taylor?

  Hey, tell him. He used to act like I couldn't play, Mar.

• 36:14Channing Crowder?

  We heard this story all morning that you used to come up to RC after the game saying, what did you see on the run?

• 36:21Speaker 01

  I'm trying to figure out why he could be at the line of scrimmage on this play and be in the deep center on this play.

• 36:27Fred Taylor?

  We were running the tape back for hours.

• 36:31Fred Taylor?

  Tell me it was ours. I had this one figured out, Chad.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  That's the first thing I asked Jordan.

• 36:37Fred Taylor?

  That's the point I'm trying to get to. You talk about the grind. You gotta be in it. You gotta love it. But here's a kid who's had, or it seems that he had everything gifted to him. People that are on the outside looking in, they're saying, your dad does this, your dad does that. Why? Why are you here? You know, does he love, does he love the game? He's a trust fund baby. I call him trust fund baby. Correct. And we can ask him that when he comes on. Does he love the game?

• 37:02Speaker 01

  Our children can't, they can't control who they're born to. And we all aspire to do for, for our children, what more, better than what we had. We want them to earn it, understand it, and appreciate it, just like my dad did. My dad worked in the steel mill for 30 years and he used to tell me, you gotta be twice as good and I want you in here. So I spent nine weeks in there. I was good.

• 37:23Ryan Clark?

  Hey, you realize that wasn't your job?

• 37:24Speaker 01

  The only day I could stay awake was payday. The only day I could stay awake was payday. But I knew that wasn't gonna be my job.

• 37:31Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  But like with with Jordan, he's blessed. Cause he but he's a motivated and he's pushed.

• 37:37Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  And that's the other part of it, you know? And and that's the thing that, you know, we got, you know, in our program, three or four guys who come from the legacy like that. And and it's something to see because we know they know what there's out there. But they also watch how their daddies worked and grinded to get to where they got. And they're appreciative of that.

• 37:55Fred Taylor?

  It's not easy.

• 37:56Channing Crowder?

  How long does it take for you, not just not just, you know, Jordan? You know, not just all the the legacy players. How long does it take you to look at a kid and know if he got that? If he if he has that grind, if he got that love?

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't think it takes very, I mean, I think it comes quickly.

• 38:10Channing Crowder?

  Workout, do you have to see him practice?

• 38:12Speaker 01

  It it well, it's it's more how they carry themselves through meetings and and off the field. You know, and their practice habits will will show free. And we gotta learn, you know, you gotta teach guys practice habits. But it's the other part of it that that, you know, that they're carrying the torch for. Because they know how to do that. They've been taught the right way of how to do that. And and they understand football comes easy to them. They can speak the language, you know? They can, you can correct them instantly. They got you, you know? Now, he, I think, has grown up in the military family because, oh, yes, sir. Everything, yes, sir.

• 38:46Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, he is so humble. He, I've I've just met him. He's the most humble kid that I probably ever met in my life.

• 38:53Channing Crowder?

  That was that was the mom though.

• 38:54Fred Taylor?

  Before he comes on, what's the difference between a five-star recruit and a three-star dog?

• 39:01Speaker 01

  These stars stuff, man.

• 39:02Fred Taylor?

  It don't matter.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  It don't matter.

• 39:04Fred Taylor?

  It don't matter, right?

• 39:05Speaker 01

  Because someone that doesn't really know the game is giving out the stars.

• 39:07Fred Taylor?

  That's.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  Is passing out the stars.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  It's it's like.

• 39:12Fred Taylor?

  That's what I wanna hear.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  You know, it's like when you put the draft up, you evaluate everybody in the draft. Ain't no stars.

• 39:17Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  You know, you you draft them and you evaluate them all the way through. But but it's you. It's not some other person in in some other part of the world or country or whatever saying this guy's a five-star, man. I mean, it it's about playing. And and I think we talked about this earlier. You talked about saying about, you know, the seventeen, eighteen-year-old. And where's he gonna be at 2021? Because that's what we wanna see.

• 39:39Fred Taylor?

  A hundred percent.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  That's what we're trying to look for, you know? We back when I was coaching in college before the eleven years before I came to the NFL. You know, you wanna see and take that guy through. To where he's gonna be in three years.

• 39:50Fred Taylor?

  What we've always talked about, we always try to give back through our experiences, our, you know, whatever we've gone through, our conversations. And a lot of these kids, they don't necessarily understand it now, right? And they get these, these ratings from these publications that just handing out anything, right? Because they have to find a way to make money like anything else. But these kids get this, they get discouraged.

• 40:15Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, but the other part is too, though. The other part too, though, like that's on, that's on us, though.

• 40:19Fred Taylor?

  But that's, that's the reason why I want to talk about it.

• 40:21Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, that's on us as parents, though.

• 40:23Fred Taylor?

  But you're hearing it from a coach who has fifty, forty decades of coaching experience, not just on a collegiate level, but even in NFL. Now he's back on the college level.

• 40:32Ryan Clark?

  But fifty, forty decades is a very long time.

• 40:34Channing Crowder?

  Forty decades is four hundred years.

• 40:38Ryan Clark?

  Hey, that's a really long time.

• 40:43Fred Taylor?

  Hey, I'm on my fifty-five, fifty right now.

• 40:45Channing Crowder?

  You gonna put in some work, coach.

• 40:48Fred Taylor?

  I admit, hey, listen, I fuck, Jordan, I fuck. I know numbers, but I'm in the moment right now.

• 40:55Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, well, he was in high school, though, and we were kind of talking about, we were talking about this story earlier. He, you know, he came, he comes to me, he's like, Dad, I want to play college ball. And at the time, he was playing basketball, he was playing football. I was like, we ain't gonna be tall enough to play basketball. I was like, I'm letting you know. And so we, I was like, and I've watched you catch, you know, and I was like, though you could be a great high school receiver because you could just catch, uh, just catch everything, that ain't gonna be what you do. I was like, I could help you play, DB. I was like, so if you really want it, then we could get it. And I remember, so he broke his ankle and we, he comes, he's coming back from his ankle, and we would go work out, man, we'd be in the gym three hours. And he would cry, right? The times I threw footballs at his head, you know what I mean? And it was like these.

• 41:36Channing Crowder?

  At his head?

• 41:36Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 41:37Speaker 03

  At my head, coach.

• 41:38Channing Crowder?

  At his head, coach, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 41:39Ryan Clark?

  And you know, and like, and like, I would always tell him, though, you can quit. I was like, I was like, your college is paid for? You know, I said, I saved a ton of money. I said, and I will work, I will work my ass off to make sure you have a head start in life to be a successful human. I said, because that's my job. It's not my job to get you to college to play football. And I, but you could ask him, I should be like, dog, you could quit, just choose one. You know what I'm saying? Do you think that, Coach is talking about being motivated, being pushed? Now, do you do those things by yourself?

• 42:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely. I think that, you know, just those experiences, like breaking my ankle and, you know what I'm saying? Just growing up with you as a pops, you know what I'm saying? It's just, I approach it differently than I think a lot of other kids do. Like, you know what I'm saying? A lot of the things that Coach Marvin and Coach Hearn harp on now are things that you started to tell me when I was younger. Like, when I was a freshman in high school, talking about running to the ball in practice and making sure you finish on the camera or having a notebook out, having a pen always, or being the last person in the facility, making sure people see you. That's stuff that I keep with me even nowadays. There's a mindset that, that comes with doing what I want to do, what y'all have done. And there's a mindset that comes with that. There's inherent sacrifices that you have to make to do that. You have to be, to be elite, you have to have elite habits.

• 42:56Fred Taylor?

  Damn.

• 42:56Speaker 03

  So, I definitely think that, uh...

• 42:58Fred Taylor?

  Hold up, timeout, timeout. Timeout. You taught him that?

• 43:02Ryan Clark?

  No, I never said that one. I'm gonna use it though now. But that one wasn't mine. You're here to get up on Monday though.

• 43:08Fred Taylor?

  Hold up.

• 43:09Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, that might have been, that might have been from over there. I got a lot.

• 43:12Fred Taylor?

  It, it, it really doesn't matter.

• 43:14Ryan Clark?

  That one wasn't mine.

• 43:14Fred Taylor?

  At the end of the day, but how old are you?

• 43:17Speaker 03

  Uh, 20.

• 43:18Fred Taylor?

  20?

• 43:19Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 43:19Fred Taylor?

  You don't hear, you don't hear him talking like that. I didn't talk like that. I mean, not until I was probably, I don't know, 30? But, I mean, that's a testament to your, your parent, your father. You know, and everything that he's, he's done.

• 43:35Ryan Clark?

  The other piece of it, the other piece of it for me is that in 13 years of playing in the NFL... I was never not undrafted, even though that's a double name. You know what I'm saying? Like, I never had a day in my life where I felt like people wanted me. When Coach Marv would come up to me, he'd have that conversation with me or talk about, like, those are the things that got me excited. Because I felt like I was always fighting for the approval. Like, I wanted people to look at me and be like, "He can ball," but I wanted to be y'all. I didn't care if it was Pro Bowls and all that stuff. I wanted y'all to be like, "Dude can play." And I think because I was like that, I always talked to him that way. People ain't gonna give you stuff. Like, people aren't gonna expect or accept you just because of your last name. Like, you gotta go earn it.

• 44:20Ryan Clark?

  And then when you, you know, when he gets to ASU and it's AP there and it's Herm there, and then Marv comes, like, you could ask him now. We don't have those conversations no more. You know what I'm saying? Like, I used to watch every single practice when he was a freshman year. And I would call him. Like, his first year playing in the games, like, his first game, I graded 92 plays.

• 44:41Ryan Clark?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 44:41Speaker 03

  Hard. He graded him hard.

• 44:44Fred Taylor?

  And that was a question that I had for him. Because my son played at Florida, wore 21, the whole thing. So, I've been through this. And I would sit in the stands. I wanted to be in the stadium as a fan. And I would just sit there. All of the fans knew me, so I would just sit there and just critique him. You know, we have our conversations at the end of the game. I didn't rah rah, get up, yell. You know, he'd do something good, I sat there. He did something bad, I was pissed off on the inside.

• 45:13Fred Taylor?

  Come on, bro, you know this. How's your dad when he's at the game? Like, has anyone ever told? I know you can't see him in the stands.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, you can.

• 45:21Fred Taylor?

  You can?

• 45:23Speaker 03

  I try. I try if I can.

• 45:25Fred Taylor?

  Oh, yeah?

• 45:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:26Fred Taylor?

  So, how is he? The same? Critique, like, does he over critique or is it?

• 45:32Speaker 03

  No, he doesn't over critique.

• 45:33Fred Taylor?

  Okay.

• 45:33Speaker 03

  Not now. In high school, like, legitimately, like, we would get off the field from a drive, and my D.C. would be talking, and I'd sit there. And as soon as he was done, he's like, alright, you go talk to your dad now. And I walked to the bench and started talking to my father about what was happening.

• 45:45Fred Taylor?

  So who'd you pay more attention to? To your DC or to your dad? Because he's been on the highest level.

• 45:52Speaker 03

  It was, I think it was a mix of both. Because obviously you have to play within the defense. It's a team game. I can't just freelance or anything like that. But the things that me and my dad worked on were the things that would make me the best at what we were doing. You know what I'm saying? Whether that was cover three or cover one or whatever. I just wanted to know what I was doing wrong, what I could do better to help my team win.

• 46:08Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 46:08Speaker 03

  He obviously is one of the best people. You know, to give me that direction.

• 46:11Ryan Clark?

  I'm a nice one, though.

• 46:13Channing Crowder?

  Oh, yeah, your, yeah, yeah. Your mom, your mom, your mom's the dog.

• 46:16Ryan Clark?

  Hey, I'm a nice one, though.

• 46:18Channing Crowder?

  He's the, I heard, I heard that he's the, he's the pleasant one.

• 46:20Ryan Clark?

  It would be times I would tell her, I'd be like, you can't say that.

• 46:25Speaker 03

  Like, front row, we were playing a state championship game. A kid caught a comeback on me for a first down. It's like the fourth quarter. And I'm hot, I'm mad at myself. My mom screamed from the stands, "Cover somebody!"

• 46:37Speaker 03

  "Make a play!" I'm like, dang, man!

• 46:39Fred Taylor?

  So she's the toughest.

• 46:40Speaker 01

  I don't want to have to use that term.

• 46:44Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, cover somebody, yeah. He gonna tighten them up.

• 46:47Fred Taylor?

  So he was a pushover?

• 46:48Channing Crowder?

  No, not at all.

• 46:49Ryan Clark?

  No. Y'all, y'all been, like, bruh, like, y'all been doing that a lot, though, man. There's been a lot of, like, RC soft. You a pleasant human. I'm, I am a pleasant human. But it's because, like, I understand, like, I understand time and place. You see what I'm saying? And I had already put a, instilled enough in him to know that I ain't gotta do all that. You know what I mean? And like, that's the cool part now, though, is when he calls me after the game, it's not me telling him what I saw, it's him telling me what happened. It's him being like, "Yeah, Pop, on this one, I should've shaded a little bit more outside." Or it's like, when I, when I see him give up a, a, a catch, I'm like, "Well, what happened?" And he's like, "Well, on film, Pop, and every time number three went inside, number two was following." And he's like, "So I was gonna pick off the angle."

• 47:34Ryan Clark?

  And I was like, "Well, you can't beat him." I was like, in understanding what you're getting, you can anticipate it, but you can't play it until it happens. But he can tell me, like, I have those conversations. And like, most of the times, I just shoot him a text, like, "Bro, you good?" And he's like, "Yeah, it was a good day." Or, you know, "He's actually hard on himself sometimes that he needed to be." And he's like, "Nah, Pop, it was a shitty day." Like, "I ain't gonna never play."

• 47:57Channing Crowder?

  I want, Jordan, I want to ask you, because I said it earlier to Coach,

• 48:03Channing Crowder?

  I'll use it, trust fund baby. You good. I don't know what you drive, but I'm sure that ain't no Toyota Passay. What you drive, Jordan? You know what I'm saying?

• 48:14Channing Crowder?

  You drive a Jag? A Jaguar? Jaguar. My son drive a Jaguar too. Jaguar, exactly. I had a Toyota Passay with 117,000 miles on it when you bought it. I had to put oil, I, Coach, Coach, I had to put oil in it once a day. My heart beating, beating up something in the damn engine. But what, what does that do? Because we have kids, Freddie been through, my kids are young, my oldest is 10. But what does that do to you? Is that like, does that put pressure on you? Does it motivate, like, what does that do when people say? And I tell you what people say, when you on the field, if I didn't know, and I'm sitting up there watching you play now, oh, that's Ryan Clark's son. What does that do to you mentally? Do you try to prove something? Do you try to run from it?

• 48:58Channing Crowder?

  Like, you're Ryan Clark's son in people's minds.

• 49:01Fred Taylor?

  You ever feel like you're in the shadows?

• 49:03Speaker 03

  Uh, no, not really. You know, I love my father, he's a great man. I'm cool being associated with him. Uh, more so to me, it motivates me because that name, like, that means something. Like, you know what I'm saying? That name on the back of my jersey, that means something. When people line up against me, they trying to like, do me and prove like, they're like that. You know what I'm saying? And it's my job, like, when you standing across from me, like, bro, I'm finna like, I'm finna dog you from all these people, like, you know what I'm saying? Because it means something to me. My name means something to me in the sport of football, like, I love it. Like, this is what I want to do my entire life.

• 49:31Fred Taylor?

  You mentioning names. I got four names for you. Troy Palamalu, Ed Reed, Sean Taylor, Ryan Clark. Rank them for me.

• 49:44Channing Crowder?

  You gonna do that to him, Freddie?

• 49:46Fred Taylor?

  I mean, we on the show.

• 49:47Channing Crowder?

  You gonna do that to him, Freddie?

• 49:48Fred Taylor?

  We having a conversation.

• 49:49Channing Crowder?

  Well, here's the thing. Those rankings, if I had to guess, those rankings are gonna go like mine. So, he can actually just tell the truth.

• 49:57Fred Taylor?

  He's an amazing kid, I just met him.

• 49:59Channing Crowder?

  I appreciate that.

• 50:00Fred Taylor?

  And for what, you know, for what it is.

• 50:02Speaker 03

  My favorite player of the four is Ryan Clark. But, uh, Sean Taylor, Troy Palamalu, Ed Reed, Ryan Clark. That's my four.

• 50:13Fred Taylor?

  I'm in love with this kid, man. He did good, bro. You were banging. You put Sean first, you were banging like, Sean a banger now.

• 50:19Speaker 03

  I wish I could do that, for sure, yeah.

• 50:21Ryan Clark?

  Like, I mean, you know, I think, and for him, you know, growing up, like, I've had, I have like a lot of moments with him that are great moments. Like, the movies of the Super Bowl, he got to break us down every Saturday. Because I would bring him to every Saturday walkthrough with me. Because, you know, we worked a ton, and I just wanted to spend time with him. So I'd bring him to Saturday walkthrough during the, at the Wild Card. I mean, at the Wild Card, getting the first playoff game, Coach T was like, "Jordan, break us down." And we won. So the next week, same thing. We get to the Super Bowl, because Jordan would come every Saturday, Coach T let everybody bring a family member. You know what I'm saying? Like, you got to bring a family member. And the picture in the middle of like the little book they made for us is us lifting him up after he broke us down.

• 51:04Ryan Clark?

  And so I would say, like, the other thing, you know, asking that question about Sean, you know, we talked about it, and Shannon called me sickly. But I got really sick at the sickle cell crisis in Denver, and I got out of hospital. Sean had got shot, and I was, I was on the stairs the morning I found out. And he walks up to me, his baby, like, if that was, what, oh seven, you know, Jordan was six maybe, uh, seven years old. And he would just like, "Pop." It was like, "What happened to Uncle Sean?" And so like, when you ask about those people, like, that's just family. You know, I went to see Troy this summer, and Troy has a picture of like, all of us, like, I'm on the wall, all these people he played with, all his cousins that played ball, and Jordan's on his wall, in his ASU

• 51:49Ryan Clark?

  uniform. And I think that, like, that's the, obviously, when you have a kid at the age I had Jordan, like, that's not the plan. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's not an ideal situation. But he got to grow up with me, you know, in the league, to where, like, I didn't have him afterwards. Like, he knows who his dad was as a player. He knows how I worked, you know, he knows how all his uncles, his uncles were. And I think that's the one thing, you know, and I'm sure Marv and y'all agree with this, like, when you grow up around the atmosphere, it's different. Like, you don't actually have to, like, tell him. You know what I'm saying, like he got to see it, you know?

• 52:23Fred Taylor?

  We had conversations, I think, once before, you know, about the parents and, you know, them forcing their kids into these sports, popcorn and youth sports. And you mentioned earlier, you didn't have to do that with Jordan.

• 52:39Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I just.

• 52:39Fred Taylor?

  You know, he just, you know, you introduced him to the arena.

• 52:42Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 52:42Fred Taylor?

  We talk about exposure leads to experience, you just exposed him.

• 52:46Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I was just like, hey, man, you can play what you want. Like, I let him play everything. I think, I still think it's the best sport is soccer. I tried to get him to play soccer in high school and everything, and he just didn't want to do it. But the way I want to end it, man, is if a team is, is looking for a coach, what would be your greatest endorsement of yourself?

• 53:02Speaker 01

  I think the, I've been in the lab for the last three years, you know? I, I really felt like, you know, football's changed. When, when I had to take over the defense in 2018, it had changed a lot since I had last called a defense, I'm gonna tell you that.

• 53:18Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  In the NFL. And, you know, he had a communicator, and I told somebody, I had this communicator back in the day, man.

• 53:23Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 53:24Ryan Clark?

  It would be damn good.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  It would have been a lot better. You know, if I could have told Ray what was about to happen, come on, man. You know, but, but I think being back in college, because the transition of what college, the quarterbacks are doing in the National Football League right now, is coming out of college. You know, there's not gonna be that stationary pocket passer, not gonna be in the National Football League.

• 53:47Fred Taylor?

  No, sir.

• 53:48Speaker 01

  Very many places. It might be out of two out of 32. But the other are gonna be on the move, where they can, they can advance the ball, they can make some first downs by three or four times a game, where they're gonna carry the football, whether it be on the read, or just pulling the ball down and going, and making a first down, and giving you an opportunity to score points. And I think that's the biggest transition we're going through right now in football. And if you're in the college game, you gotta defend it every week. You gotta figure out how to defend it, this is 11-on-11 football.

• 54:16Channing Crowder?

  And Coach, you called out Jordan for that, a call you had, Coach? Are you one of the top 32 defensive minds in the world?

• 54:24Speaker 01

  Well.

• 54:25Channing Crowder?

  No, don't give me political rep, Coach, I want to get after it. 32 teams.

• 54:30Speaker 01

  I tell this all the time, alls I want to do is get my dudes on the sideline drinking Gatorade without the other team scoring. That's all I cared about, you know, I didn't care about nothing else. And, and, and that's why we do what we do.

• 54:42Fred Taylor?

  You're very humble, you're always smiling.

• 54:45Ryan Clark?

  He is always cheesy, dawg.

• 54:46Fred Taylor?

  And you know, a lot of times, these owners, this perception that stands out in front of you. And I think if you ever had another opportunity to interview, I think the owners should really dig into what you stand for as a person. Your integrity, your character, your makeup, how you develop young men. And I think in this environment, that carries a lot of weight, you know? And I'm rooting for you. I do hope you get another opportunity to get in there and interview, and get another shot at it. You belong in the NFL, not simply because you can coach, but because it's more than that. You know, we're talking about lives. You know, when guys are done with the game, they have to know which way to go.

• 55:30Fred Taylor?

  That transition is tougher than being a player, because that's what we know what to do when we're, you know, playing. We know how to play football. How do you prepare these guys for when it's all over? That's what you're doing with these young men like Jordan, and that's what you can do with the old men and adults like ourselves. You know what I'm saying?

• 55:49Channing Crowder?

  The unretired, the unretired 45 year olds.

• 55:52Fred Taylor?

  So I think that, I think the owners need to look at that. They really need to look at that and stop just, you said it. Stop running to the young hype, you know, the young hottie. You know what I'm saying? If I can try and draw a parallel, it ain't, the young hottie might not, her hygiene might not be up to par.

• 56:13Ryan Clark?

  Oh my gosh, bro.

• 56:15Channing Crowder?

  I ain't talking about the hygiene coach.

• 56:16Fred Taylor?

  I'm just trying to draw a parallel.

• 56:19Channing Crowder?

  That was deep.

• 56:22Channing Crowder?

  That was deep. Not just, not just X, it's low, you need the full pack.

• 56:26Fred Taylor?

  You need the whole pack.

• 56:27Channing Crowder?

  And Coach, Coach a bad one.

• 56:28Ryan Clark?

  Bro, he basically, he basically just said she might stink.

• 56:31Fred Taylor?

  Cares.

• 56:32Ryan Clark?

  That's what he said. She might stink, and the show's over.

• 56:34Fred Taylor?

  You want experience, baby.

• 56:36Ryan Clark?

  He said, she gonna be fine, but she might stink.

• 56:39Fred Taylor?

  Appreciate you, baby. Appreciate you, appreciate you.

• 56:41Ryan Clark?

  Appreciate you, my dog. Love you, bro. My boy said she stink, man.

• 57:09Speaker 07

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time. Wegovy.

• 57:17Speaker 08

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