How To Transform Your Inner Chaos To Peace & Reclaim Your Power

I'm going on tour! Come see The School of Greatness LIVE in person! Get my new book Make Money Easy here! I was blown away by the raw vulnerability and transformative wisdom shared in this amazing episode. Mel Robbins revealed her groundbreaking "Let Them" theory, showing us how unconsciously giving away our power to others is the hidden obstacle blocking our happiness. Melissa Wood-Tepperberg bravely took us behind her picture-perfect exterior to the rock-bottom moments that birthed her wellness philosophy, demonstrating how daily meditation became her lifeline from self-destruction to self-love. Rachel Platten shattered the myth that motherhood diminishes creativity, sharing the spiritual awakening that happened when she surrendered on her knees at 2 AM, screaming "mercy" before receiving divine inspiration for her music. This powerful convergence of female wisdom offers a masterclass in reclaiming personal power, developing a relationship with your authentic self, and finding spiritual connection through life's most challenging moments. In this episode you will learn:How to identify the four specific ways you're unknowingly giving your power away to othersWhy trying to control what's uncontrollable is the root cause of your stress, frustration, and unhappinessThe transformative two-part framework: "Let Them" to accept reality and "Let Me" to take responsibility for your responseWhy adding small positive practices rather than just removing negative habits creates sustainable transformationHow consistent meditation can transform your relationship with yourself and become an anchor through life's stormsA practical exercise to release perfectionism by dividing responsibilities between yourself and GodThe surprising way motherhood can expand rather than limit your creative capacity and spiritual connectionFor more information go to https://www.lewishowes.com/1739For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Mel Robbins – greatness.lnk.to/1710SCMelissa Wood-Tepperberg – greatness.lnk.to/1690SCRachel Platten – greatness.lnk.to/1663SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  There are two big things happening at one time that I've never done before. I'm going on a book tour for my new book, Make Money Easy, and I'm doing a podcast tour at the same time. It is going to be big, and I'm going to seven cities in 10 days. Get your friends, get your family, bring everyone you know to these cities. I'm coming to Austin, Texas, New York, Boston. We're going to Nashville, then we're going to Los Angeles, San Diego, and San Francisco. Make sure to get your tickets right now. Go to lewishouse.com/tour. Again, bring everyone you know. If you're looking to create more financial freedom and abundance in your life, and you want to see a massive guest live on the School of Greatness show,

• 0:45Lewis Howes?

  get your tickets. I can't wait to see you there.

• 0:51Lewis Howes?

  What is the number one thing you hear from everyone in the world that only you have a unique perspective on?

• 0:56Mel Robbins?

  What's interesting is that we all think we know what is holding us back. And we describe it, whether it's money, or time, or I'm exhausted, or I'm stuck, or it's my past, or it's my mindset. And it's not that at all. If you're not happy, if you don't have what you want in life, if you're exhausted, tired, stuck, or overwhelmed, the problem isn't what you think it is. In fact, the problem isn't you. The problem is the power you are unknowingly giving to other people. There are eight key ways that you have turned other people into the biggest obstacle in your life. And other people should be one of the greatest sources of inspiration, and connection, and joy, and love.

• 1:40Mel Robbins?

  And instead, they're a constant source of stress, and frustration, and energy drain, and they do not have to be. And it is this invisible obstacle that is in everybody's way, that is stealing your time, is stealing your energy, and you don't even realize it. And there's a totally different way to go through life. Your single most valuable resources are time and energy. Because where you spend your time and what you pour your energy into determines the quality of your life. And what I started to notice very, very, very quickly, like within 24 hours, is that the reason why I didn't have a lot of time is because I was spending it getting worked up about stupid things. The reason why my energy was so drained is because I was allowing other people's behavior

• 2:25Mel Robbins?

  or things that were happening around me to actually drain my energy. And saying "let them" became this lever I could pull any moment where I felt my time and attention, getting sucked towards something that truly wasn't worth my time and energy, or didn't matter, or more importantly, beyond my control. And as you talk about all the time, and as lots of people talk about, it's not about what's happening, it's about how you respond to it. And the problem that I've always had with stoicism, or letting it go, or principles that are about being more peaceful and boundaries, is that I never knew how to apply it. Like, let's take the concept of "let it go." I don't want to let it go.

• 3:09Lewis Howes?

  Why don't you?

• 3:10Mel Robbins?

  Well, I'll tell you why. It feels like I'm losing. You know, when somebody says to you, "Louis, you've just got to let it go." They're basically saying, "You lose, so stop worrying about it." That person won, you got to let it go.

• 3:24Lewis Howes?

  And what if there's an example of like, okay, someone in your company steals 100 grand from you? Or takes something from you, or does something that you're like, "Do I just let it go?"

• 3:34Mel Robbins?

  Well, it's a great question.

• 3:35Lewis Howes?

  Do I just let them take whatever they want? Do I just let them crap all over me all day long?

• 3:39Mel Robbins?

  Because that actually happened to me. So I had two things happen in my company. One, where we had a contractor that literally stole our database and lied about a campaign that we thought we were paying for that was going on, and it never actually happened, and they presented fake data. Now, I have to let them, because it happened, and I didn't know until I discovered it too late. But there's a second part to this theory. Because, of course, I'm going to get upset and I'm going to be pissed off, but allowing myself to stay in that state of rage, what I know is it doesn't allow me to leverage this part of my brain

• 4:24Mel Robbins?

  to then respond. And that's the second part of this theory that I discovered, which is, once you say "let them," you detach from the thing you can't control. Because the other thing that happened to me, Louis, and I think I've shared this story with you before, is that I was also the victim of a big wire fraud scam.

• 4:41Lewis Howes?

  Yup.

• 4:41Mel Robbins?

  $350,000. A scam that's very common in the real estate business, where somebody breaks into a server and just intercepts emails and then changes banking information.

• 4:52Lewis Howes?

  $350 is a lot.

• 4:53Mel Robbins?

  No kidding. But by the time I figured it out, the money was gone.

• 4:56Lewis Howes?

  Gone.

• 4:57Mel Robbins?

  Gone. And the more upset that you get about something, the less you... The more upset that you get about something, the faster you lose your ability to think critically.

• 5:08Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. It's true.

• 5:09Mel Robbins?

  And so when you say "let them," it's like allowing something without allowing it. It's recognizing that there is something that happened or there is a person in your life that's doing something that's pissing you off or annoying you or stressing you out or worrying you. But you have no control over that. And so, yes, react, but at some point, you gotta go let them. Because it helps you recognize and accept the reality and detach from something. Yeah, it's already happened. And detach, most importantly, from what you can't control.

• 5:38Lewis Howes?

  So what's the second part, then?

• 5:39Mel Robbins?

  Let me. Let me choose what I'm going to do. And when you say "let me," you do something crazy powerful. First of all, you take responsibility for how you're going to address this. And let's look at the word "responsibility." It's the ability to respond. And when you say "let me," you are reminding yourself that in life, there are only three things, Louis, you can control. Only three things. Number one, you can control what you think next.

• 6:18Mel Robbins?

  Number two, you can control what you do or you don't do next. And oftentimes, doing nothing is way more powerful than doing something. And number three, you can control what you're going to do with the emotions that you feel.

• 6:39Mel Robbins?

  And when you say "let me," in any situation, you detach from the things you cannot control, and you remind yourself that no matter what is happening around me or to me, I always have power. Because through my thoughts and through my actions and through the processing of my emotion, I can positively impact or change what's happening for the better. And if you allow yourself to constantly get stressed out or waste your time, by managing what you will never be able to control, you will never see the power that you have. And so this gets back to the question that you asked,

• 7:23Mel Robbins?

  which is what is the single biggest thing that is in everybody's way? And the single biggest thing that is in everybody's way is the power you unknowingly give to other people. And there are four main ways that you're doing it.

• 7:38Mel Robbins?

  And it is blocking your ability to be happy. It is blocking your ability to make decisions that are aligned with what you want. It is blocking your ability to leverage your time for the things that you care about. It is keeping you from pursuing the things that you're capable of doing in your life. And it is also draining your time. And the four big ways that you've turned other people into a problem. Number one, you allow them to stress you out. Number two, you're so concerned about what everybody else thinks. It is a massive obstacle in your way because you consider it before you do anything. Number three, you navigate your entire life

• 8:24Mel Robbins?

  based on other people's emotional reactions. And you allow emotional immaturity in other people and in yourself to dominate how you move through your day. And number four, your habit of chronically looking over there and comparing yourself makes you feel like life is unfair and that other people are against you or competing with you. And all four of those things are simply not true. And you can use the let them theory to remove all four of those obstacles. And when you no longer allow people to stress you out, you have more energy. When you allow people, you let them think negative thoughts about you because you recognize

• 9:09Mel Robbins?

  you can't control what they think anyway. It frees you up to focus on what's within your control, which is what you think about yourself. And when you operate in a way, Louis, that makes you proud of yourself, you authentically don't really care if people have a negative opinion. When it comes to emotional immaturity, so many of us are driven by guilt, or we're scared to disappoint people, or we don't want to let people down, or we think it's our job to make other people happy. And when you organize your life around managing another adult's feelings, you become the parent to another human being.

• 9:48Mel Robbins?

  And there's a much easier way. Let them. Let them be disappointed. Let them be upset. Let them be sad that you're doing something that they wanted you to do, but you're not going to do it. Let them be an adult and let them deal with themselves. And the fourth one is when you spend tons of time comparing yourself to other people. And look, comparison is normal. Comparing yourself to other people isn't the problem. It's what you're doing with it that is. And so, using the let them theory, you've got to let other people be successful. Because right now, what's happening is when you see somebody else succeeding, or happy,

• 10:31Mel Robbins?

  or they're pregnant, or they're engaged, or they're doing whatever, they're, you know, building some big brand, and you tell yourself, "Oh, my God, you know, they've already done what I wanted to do. I'm too late. You know, because they've done it, now I can't do it." You actually are working against the laws of the world. Because success, and happiness, and joy, and friendship, and love, these are all things that are in limitless supply. And the truth about life is that you're not actually playing against other people. You're playing with them.

• 11:08Mel Robbins?

  And when you turn other people into a problem, and you look at other people's success, or happiness, or the things that they've achieved, or experienced in their lives, as evidence that you won't have it, you're working against the natural order of things. Other people can't actually block your way. Only you can do that. And if you let people show you the way, if you let them inspire you, if you let them reveal the formula to success, now you're learning from people instead of turning people into a problem that is blocking you from doing what you're capable of. And those are the four ways

• 11:51Mel Robbins?

  that you have turned other people into a problem, and you have allowed other people and your desire to control them, or to manage them, or the sense that you have this responsibility to make everybody else happy, and you've forgotten about the one person whose job it is that you are supposed to be making happy, which is you. Kind of cool, huh?

• 12:13Lewis Howes?

  Very cool. So this was a kind of an awakening with your son and your daughter.

• 12:17Mel Robbins?

  Well, it starts at the prom, which is crazy.

• 12:21Lewis Howes?

  When you were able to have this kind of awakening a couple of years ago, how much of these things were you doing that were holding you back?

• 12:29Mel Robbins?

  Everything.

• 12:29Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 12:30Mel Robbins?

  Everything. I didn't see this. See, it's sort of like you and I both have dyslexia. I didn't discover that I had dyslexia and ADHD until I was 47. And I found out the way most women do. My son was getting evaluated for school, and I'm like...

• 12:44Lewis Howes?

  And you're like, "Oh, I think I have the same thing here."

• 12:47Mel Robbins?

  Yeah. And if you don't know the problem, then you have no access to solving it. And for years, Louis, I thought that the primary thing that I was struggling with was anxiety. Because when you have dyslexia or ADHD, and it's not diagnosed or addressed, the thing that rises to the surface is anxiety.

• 13:13Mel Robbins?

  And anxiety wasn't my problem. Anxiety was a symptom.

• 13:17Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think you had anxiety then? Or why do you think anxiety was showing up for you in your life?

• 13:23Mel Robbins?

  Oh, well, it's very simple. Like, if you're sitting in a classroom and your brain can't do what everybody else, you know, can do, and you're falling behind?

• 13:31Lewis Howes?

  You'll feel anxious.

• 13:32Mel Robbins?

  Of course, because you're uncertain. And anxiety, in my mind, is just a situation where you feel like there's an unknown, right? And you add in this belief that you're not capable of figuring it out. And the problem is that when something feels overwhelming, or you don't know, or things feel a little out of control, we focus on that, and then we start worrying. Versus focusing on the fact that you're actually capable of figuring something out. That's all that anxiety is. It's a separation with the power inside you. And then, of course, your body has this alarm system.

• 14:12Mel Robbins?

  And when something is happening in the moment, or it's about to happen, and you get nervous because you're uncertain, or you're afraid of how things are going to turn out, or you're afraid that the teacher's going to call on you, right? The alarm system in your body goes off. And then you separate yourself from your power. Because you always have the ability to figure something out. And for somebody who starts to struggle chronically with anxiety, what ends up happening is that you start to, when you feel nervous in your body, which, by the way, it is a mentally healthy response. If you're a dyslexic kid in a classroom, and you don't know what the [__] is going on, to feel nervous.

• 14:55Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 14:55Mel Robbins?

  That's a sign that things are working well. Because the alarm is trying to tell you something's not right. And then we feel the alarm, and we don't know what the issue is. So then, we make a major mistake. Instead of dropping into the alarm, which is always in your body, we go upstairs to our heads, which is where self-doubt is. And then you start going, "Oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God", which only makes the alarm... Bigger. I didn't know any of this back then. So I, of course, went from a dyslexic and ADHD kid to somebody that develops anxiety because I'm sitting in a classroom thinking I'm an idiot. And you want to know the kid that works the hardest in school? The one who's struggling. Not the kids that are getting straight A's.

• 15:37Lewis Howes?

  It's easy for them.

• 15:38Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 15:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:39Mel Robbins?

  Even if they're working hard.

• 15:40Lewis Howes?

  It's still easy to come by.

• 15:41Mel Robbins?

  Yes. It's the kid who isn't able to learn in that way and is terrified of being found out. Like, you don't have to tell a kid that's struggling in school that, like, telling somebody to work harder is dumb. Because it's not an issue of willpower. It's an issue of, I don't have the skills right now. And when you're in that situation where you can't. In fact, there's a doctor that was on our show two weeks ago that you gotta have on. His name is Dr. Stuart Avalon. And Louis, he said this sentence. He's been at Mass General Brigham for 30 years. Credible. Child psychiatrist, he says, "People do well when they can." And if somebody's not doing well

• 16:26Mel Robbins?

  and they're exhibiting challenging behavior, it's because they're missing one of a few skills. And he's been able to identify it down into five skills. And one of the tragic things about his work with kids that he sees over and over is that it's not the kid's fault. And if you don't know what the skill is that you need, whether it's communicating, or impulse control, or it is the ability to learn in the way that your brain's being asked to learn. These are all things that can be addressed. If you don't know what the skill is that's missing, you will continue to struggle.

• 17:03Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 17:04Mel Robbins?

  And we live in a world where if you're struggling or you're presenting challenging behavior, we punish you.

• 17:11Lewis Howes?

  Or you tell you to work harder, or whatever it might be.

• 17:12Mel Robbins?

  Or you punish yourself.

• 17:14Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah. You feel shame and guilt and all those things, yeah.

• 17:16Mel Robbins?

  Correct. And so the Lathan theory is the exact same thing because it is a skill to be able to identify what's in your control and what's not in your control. And it's a skill anybody can learn. And you need to learn it because human beings, at our core, we have a fundamental, hardwired need for control. It makes us feel safe. So if you really think about this, like, you need to feel in control of your decisions. You need to feel in control of your environment. You need to feel in control of what's going to happen in the future or at work today. And we also try to make ourselves feel safe. By what? Controlling the people around us. And this is in all of us.

• 18:01Mel Robbins?

  I have this need to be in control. You have this need to be in control. This is why the parent-child relationship is so irritating, right? Because you're the parent, or you're the adult child, and you have a need to be in control of yourself. But your parent only feels safe if they're in control of you. And that sets up a problem for every relationship that you're in. Because if I can't control you, it makes me feel unsafe. But if I try to control you, Lewis, then you're going to feel annoyed. And what happens in the body, and I write about this in the book, because the first thing you're going to learn when you learn this skill of identifying what's not in your control and removing it as an obstacle in your life.

• 18:46Mel Robbins?

  Because when you stop giving power to things that aren't in your control, guess what you give back? Time, energy, power, confidence. Joy. Peace. Joy. You realize you do have agency, and that that power isn't over there, it's in here. And you have the exact same thing. And when you start to tap into that for yourself, it's just liberating. And then you start to see the second thing that I write about in the book, which is that there are four ways you're screwing up your relationships because you're trying to control people. And any psychologist will tell you that when you try to control something that you can't control, it just creates stress and frustration for you, and it creates tension and misunderstanding

• 19:31Mel Robbins?

  and distancing your relationships. Because if you have a need to control, and I have a need to control, right? And I try to pressure you to do something, Louis, your brain is wired not to feel motivated, but to actually resist the change I want you to make.

• 19:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 19:53Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 19:54Lewis Howes?

  You don't want to do it.

• 19:54Mel Robbins?

  No.

• 19:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:55Mel Robbins?

  No. And so, it was fascinating also to see that for 54 years, I was actually operating the opposite of human wiring when it came to relationships.

• 20:10Lewis Howes?

  On a scale of 1 to 10, in terms of apparent child relationships that you had, or even marriage relationship, 10 being the ultimate level of control, wanting to control either your kids or your partner, where were you on that scale?

• 20:25Mel Robbins?

  I'd say that publicly, I was probably a 5.

• 20:28Lewis Howes?

  5, really?

• 20:29Mel Robbins?

  10.

• 20:30Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 20:30Mel Robbins?

  Well, we all are. We all are.

• 20:33Lewis Howes?

  So what does that look like, then? Is it like not accepting your kids to be themselves, or they want to do something and you say, "No, you can't do that," or "Here's what you need to do"?

• 20:41Mel Robbins?

  Well, there's balance with it.

• 20:42Lewis Howes?

  Because you've got to discipline kids, too.

• 20:44Mel Robbins?

  Of course.

• 20:44Lewis Howes?

  You can't just be, "Let them. Let them do whatever they want. Let them eat whatever they want. They can stay up all night. Let them."

• 20:50Mel Robbins?

  No. Because this is a book about adult relationships. And we make a huge distinction, because when you're an adult, you are, and you have a child, or you're a caregiver or a coach. No. You are a, well, there are certain things you need to let them do.

• 21:06Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 21:07Mel Robbins?

  But there are certain guardrails that are your responsibility. For example, a child cannot regulate their own emotions.

• 21:13Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 21:14Mel Robbins?

  You have to, it's your responsibility, to teach a child how to regulate their own emotions. And the problem is that no adults know how to do this.

• 21:25Lewis Howes?

  They haven't been taught it either.

• 21:26Mel Robbins?

  Correct. Which is why another philosophy and rule in the Let Them Theory book is that from this point forward, go through life and see every adult as an eight-year-old in a big body. And when you do that, something fascinating happens. Instead of being scared of people who are challenging, or narcissistic, or passive, or immature, you actually can let them be, and you feel compassion. And you also realize it's not your job to make excuses for somebody who is immature. It's not your job to change somebody who has a narcissistic personality style.

• 22:11Mel Robbins?

  It's not your job to take away somebody's disappointment or sadness. You need to let them. And when you do it, it's the ultimate boundary, because then you separate your emotions and energy from someone else. And then you say the second part, which is "let me." "Let me double down on my values, and let me see this person very clearly." Because if I see this person's immature behavior, and I visualize the eight-year-old version of them, what I realize is that this is a person who has just never taught the skill of understanding and managing their emotions in a responsible and healthy way. And I can't teach them that.

• 22:54Lewis Howes?

  If someone's treating you poorly, or disrespecting you, or has a lack of manners and just decency in life. Not saying they're stealing 100 grand from you, not saying they're cheating on you.

• 23:05Mel Robbins?

  It's honestly the same thing.

• 23:06Lewis Howes?

  But just...

• 23:07Mel Robbins?

  It is.

• 23:08Lewis Howes?

  Other things that are like, "Huh, that doesn't feel good."

• 23:10Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 23:11Lewis Howes?

  How do you let them, but then also create a boundary with them, or communicate to them, "Hey, this doesn't work for me anymore. I'm gonna let you do this, but also, this doesn't work in this relationship for me."

• 23:23Mel Robbins?

  Correct.

• 23:24Lewis Howes?

  How can we do that?

• 23:25Mel Robbins?

  You just explained it.

• 23:26Lewis Howes?

  That is not angry and mean towards them, or reacting emotionally, but just creating a healthy, conscious communication.

• 23:32Mel Robbins?

  Okay, great. Excellent question.

• 23:35Lewis Howes?

  Because that sounds like part two, where you're letting "me," you're taking your power back, and you're saying, "Now I want to communicate how you can treat me."

• 23:41Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 23:42Lewis Howes?

  Like, "These behaviors don't work."

• 23:43Mel Robbins?

  Right.

• 23:44Lewis Howes?

  "If you want to do that, I'm gonna let you do it, but not with me."

• 23:47Mel Robbins?

  Bingo.

• 23:48Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 23:49Mel Robbins?

  See, here's the thing. Who is the power in a narcissistic relationship?

• 23:54Lewis Howes?

  I guess the narcissist, if the other person's allowing it to happen.

• 23:57Mel Robbins?

  Correct, but you're only allowing it if you see it happening and you make excuses for it and you stay.

• 24:02Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 24:03Mel Robbins?

  So if you let them reveal who they are, and so this is a very important point. You are not allowing people to abuse you. In fact, what the let them theory does is it helps you wake up, perhaps for the first time, and actually see somebody very clearly as they are. And not make an excuse. Because people's behavior is the truth. People can say anything that they want, but if you watch their behavior, someone tells you exactly who they are and they tell you what their priorities are and where you fall in those priorities. So let them reveal who they are. And if you are in a situation with any human being, and you let them be who they are,

• 24:49Mel Robbins?

  and they reveal to you that they are emotionally abusive, or narcissistic, or they don't call back, or they keep saying that they're gonna stop drinking and they don't, or they promise that they're not gonna raise their voice, but they do. Let them. Because your power is not in trying to change them, because you can never change another human being. Human beings only change when they feel like it, and they are not gonna change for you. People only change when they feel like changing for themselves. And so trying to make someone else change, or wishing that they would change, that's not where your power is. Don't put your time and energy there. Let someone reveal who they are. And then say the second part, which is let me.

• 25:33Mel Robbins?

  Let me remind myself that I always have power because I can leave any conversation. I can leave any interview, I can leave any date, I can leave any relationship, I can leave any dining room table.

• 25:44Lewis Howes?

  Any job.

• 25:45Mel Robbins?

  Any time, any job, anytime I choose. And so, you know, I also say this, knowing the research. I used to work at domestic violence hotline. And when I was a public defender, we had a tremendous amount of training in crisis intervention. And I know you've covered this topic a lot, and you understand trauma and have written about it extensively. And I say this in abusive relationships, this is a life-changing tool for you, to say let them, and here's why.

• 26:17Mel Robbins?

  On average, at least the research I saw last, it took a woman seven times of leaving to leave for good in a domestic.

• 26:27Lewis Howes?

  Wow, why is that?

• 26:28Mel Robbins?

  I'll tell you why. The reason why is if you look at brain circuitry and you look at all that research that scientists have done on addiction, and there's this famous study, I'm gonna get completely wrong, it's part of my brand to just like, kinda miss some of the details, get the gist of it. So, they put these poor rats in two different cages. And in one of the cages, they give the rats like, all the sugar that they want, or heroin, or I don't even know what they were giving these rats to take.

• 26:54Lewis Howes?

  Some addictive substances.

• 26:55Mel Robbins?

  Right, and it's on tap. And of course, they're like, tap, tap, tap, but then they kinda get a little like tired of it. In this cage, they put the rats in with the same sugar, or heroin, or whatever, but they gave it to them randomly. So, you would tap it once and get your hit, and then you'd go back and it's water, and you're like, oh, and then you hit it again, and then maybe it comes again. And then you hit it a couple more times and it's water, and then you hit it again. It's called intermittent rewards. It is the exact same mechanism as pulling a slot machine. Like, sometimes you win, and then you gotta pull it 23, and then you win again. And it's that lack of predictability, which by the way, is the exact same mechanism with social media. Because when you're scrolling,

• 27:40Mel Robbins?

  you know, for those of us that have been caught doom scrolling, this is not your fault, the algorithm's designed this way. It's designed to feed you things that are like a dopamine hit, and then you get a bunch of boring crap. But have you ever noticed as you start to talk to yourself, "I gotta go to bed, like, I really need to go off this topic."

• 27:55Lewis Howes?

  No, 10 minutes, no, whatever.

• 27:57Mel Robbins?

  And then you hit one thing, like, okay, and then you're on for another. It's intermittent reward. And so, in the cycle of an emotionally, or physically, or sexually abusive relationship, what happens is the relationship cycle is one where it's calm, and then the abuse, and then the apology, and then it's calm. And the fact that it's not always like it negatively the whole time makes you do what we all do when we're on social media. I know that I need to do something, but...

• 28:31Lewis Howes?

  And there's a moment of like, some goodness or something happening that's good, yeah.

• 28:34Mel Robbins?

  Yes, and so you...

• 28:36Lewis Howes?

  You want that to happen all the time, but it's not.

• 28:37Mel Robbins?

  Correct, and the world's leading experts, you've had Dr. Romani Diversla on a number of times here, leading expert in the world on narcissism. She has said that the single biggest problem in a narcissistic relationship, whether it's your mother, or the person that you're dating, or a brother or sister or friend, is the hope that they will change.

• 29:00Lewis Howes?

  God, it's so hard. They won't change.

• 29:03Mel Robbins?

  Well...

• 29:04Lewis Howes?

  They might on their own.

• 29:06Mel Robbins?

  Likelihood is not.

• 29:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:08Mel Robbins?

  But I think that you can hold out the belief that people can change, and at the same time, you can live in the reality of who they actually are right now.

• 29:19Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 29:20Mel Robbins?

  And that's the power of letting them. You're not letting them do anything to you. You're letting them reveal exactly who they are through their behavior, and for the first time, you are not explaining it away. And that is the biggest issue that people also face in dating. We're so terrified to be single. You know, and I get it. Like, I've been married a long time. I have two daughters that are... One is single, the other's in a relationship. And the obsession with not wanting to be the single friend.

• 29:56Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 29:57Mel Robbins?

  Like, how awesome it is to have plans on the weekend. Like, the fear that you have that you're not going to meet the one. And the problem is that we are so married to the fantasy that we chase the potential. And you don't see the reality of the person that you're actually with.

• 30:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 30:13Mel Robbins?

  And the explaining away of behavior is the single biggest reason why you'll waste years of your life, or months of your life, with the wrong person. Because you're up here going, "Well, if they'd only lose some more weight, or they'd be more motivated, or they didn't watch golf all weekend..."

• 30:30Lewis Howes?

  They treated me nicer.

• 30:31Mel Robbins?

  "...treated me nicer, then maybe..." No, this is exactly who this person is.

• 30:35Lewis Howes?

  Well, I once heard someone say that if you're not changing it, you're choosing it.

• 30:41Mel Robbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:42Lewis Howes?

  If you're not changing the situation, or changing your relationship within the situation, or changing your environment, you're choosing that environment.

• 30:47Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 30:48Lewis Howes?

  You're choosing that relationship.

• 30:49Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 30:50Lewis Howes?

  You're choosing that job, whatever it might be. And you can speak up and you can communicate, hey, this is something that I would like to create within this relationship, within this career, within this job. And I'm not happy with my current situation. Or this is what's working for me, but this isn't working for me.

• 31:04Mel Robbins?

  Right.

• 31:04Lewis Howes?

  How can we evolve this relationship?

• 31:06Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 31:06Lewis Howes?

  So I think you should have the conversations.

• 31:08Mel Robbins?

  You have to. That's the let me part.

• 31:10Lewis Howes?

  Don't just say, screw this person and I'm gone.

• 31:12Mel Robbins?

  No, no.

• 31:13Lewis Howes?

  Communicating with courage.

• 31:15Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 31:15Lewis Howes?

  With consciousness of like, here's what I do appreciate about you.

• 31:18Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 31:18Lewis Howes?

  Here's all the good that is happening.

• 31:20Mel Robbins?

  Absolutely.

• 31:20Lewis Howes?

  And here's some things that I would like to improve on.

• 31:22Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 31:23Lewis Howes?

  Can we improve in this situation, in my relationship or my career, or whatever it might be, or our friendship? If not, okay, it's information. Maybe I'll stay as invested with you, maybe I won't.

• 31:34Mel Robbins?

  Correct.

• 31:34Lewis Howes?

  Maybe I'll stay in this job, maybe I'll look for a new job and try to find some other situation. But if you're not changing it, you're choosing it.

• 31:41Mel Robbins?

  Yes, yes.

• 31:43Lewis Howes?

  And when you're choosing it, you gotta accept it. If you don't accept it, you gotta start having a conscious conversation to change.

• 31:48Mel Robbins?

  Yes, that's exactly right, Louis. And here's the cool part. No human being's perfect.

• 31:53Lewis Howes?

  Of course not.

• 31:54Mel Robbins?

  And we can all learn skills.

• 31:55Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 31:56Mel Robbins?

  And so, whose responsibility is it to create the relationship that you deserve? See, I think it's your responsibility.

• 32:03Lewis Howes?

  Our responsibility.

• 32:03Mel Robbins?

  And the way that you do it is you allow someone, you let them be who they are. And then you come back to yourself and anything that's annoying you or frustrating you or that you're griping to your friends about, whether it's work, or it's a friendship, or your parents, or whatever, that's the let me part.

• 32:19Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 32:20Mel Robbins?

  Let me either stop [BLEEP] about this, because that's the only way that you know how you accept it.

• 32:25Lewis Howes?

  Accept them, yeah.

• 32:26Mel Robbins?

  Right?

• 32:26Lewis Howes?

  Stop complaining.

• 32:27Mel Robbins?

  Or let me sit down and be the emotionally mature one and make the request. So Chris has done this with me, so I'll play this out this way. So, you know, you're good friends with my husband, Chris, and you know Chris. He's like Mr. Men's Retreat, Deaf Dula, Zen, amazing man. And I, you know, if you go into our bathroom, Louis... Chris's counter.

• 32:49Lewis Howes?

  Clean.

• 32:49Mel Robbins?

  Oh, I see. So you knew.

• 32:51Lewis Howes?

  No, I know, because this is my bathroom. It's, I'm clean, you're organized, and when Martha puts something on me, I'm like, "You have a whole nother separate counter. We're not sharing a counter. We have two sinks for a reason." And yours is three times the size of mine, for a reason. You don't have to put your brush on my side.

• 33:07Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 33:07Lewis Howes?

  I like it clean.

• 33:08Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 33:09Lewis Howes?

  You know what I mean?

• 33:09Mel Robbins?

  Yes. Drives you crazy, doesn't it?

• 33:10Lewis Howes?

  Crazy.

• 33:11Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, okay, it's just boring. Mine is just like Martha's. It looks like the CVS aisle, tipped over on top of it.

• 33:17Lewis Howes?

  And it's like, she can't even see what she has, because there's so much stuff.

• 33:20Mel Robbins?

  Yes. So, it drives Chris bananas.

• 33:24Mel Robbins?

  He has learned to let me. Now...

• 33:26Lewis Howes?

  Now, I let her on her side.

• 33:27Mel Robbins?

  Correct.

• 33:28Lewis Howes?

  Hey, my side.

• 33:28Mel Robbins?

  Correct, but when the brush comes, onto your side, which I do too, because I walk over and talking, and I put it down, and I walk back right... So, here's the thing, though. If it really starts to annoy you...

• 33:40Lewis Howes?

  It's not bad, Ben.

• 33:40Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, you're not gonna be able to control her, right? You are starting to get annoyed, so now you know it is actually draining some energy. The power's not in controlling her, it's in your response. So you go to Martha, Chris comes to me and says, "Mel, I love you."

• 33:55Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 33:56Mel Robbins?

  The real trigger for Chris is cardboard boxes.

• 33:59Lewis Howes?

  Cardboard boxes?

• 34:00Mel Robbins?

  Oh, yeah, because what happens is they show up.

• 34:02Lewis Howes?

  You get boxes, yeah, yeah.

• 34:03Mel Robbins?

  And then Chris is Mr. Slice 'em down, flatten 'em, stack 'em.

• 34:07Lewis Howes?

  Organize them, recycle them, whatever, yeah.

• 34:08Mel Robbins?

  Yes, stack 'em in the garage in a certain way, they got all stacked up, he likes to put one in boxes, I don't know, like, I don't know. And he would ask me, "When the boxes come and you enter, please slice 'em." And I would do it some of the time.

• 34:21Lewis Howes?

  Uh-huh.

• 34:21Mel Robbins?

  But most of the time, what I do is I just stack 'em next to the door to brush.

• 34:24Lewis Howes?

  And let him do it.

• 34:25Mel Robbins?

  Well, that's not what I mean.

• 34:29Lewis Howes?

  You're gonna do it.

• 34:31Mel Robbins?

  I mean to come down at the end of the day.

• 34:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you know, you're tired of it, yeah.

• 34:36Mel Robbins?

  So Chris would come in, and he'd see them, and he has asked me multiple times.

• 34:41Lewis Howes?

  Uh-huh.

• 34:41Mel Robbins?

  So, of course, it stresses him out, and pisses him off, and annoys him.

• 34:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:46Mel Robbins?

  But what he did is he sat me down because there's a big difference between what you intend and the impact it has on another person.

• 34:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, if you scream at someone, or scold them, or shame them, you're not going to get a good response.

• 34:56Mel Robbins?

  Correct.

• 34:57Lewis Howes?

  But if you sit down consciously when things are calm.

• 35:00Mel Robbins?

  Correct.

• 35:00Lewis Howes?

  Not in that moment, and just say, "Hey, in a loving way, I love you, I appreciate you, I appreciate all the good that you do for us and our relationship. We have a beautiful home, we have three amazing children."

• 35:10Mel Robbins?

  And I'm like, "Now spit it out, Louis, what did I do wrong?"

• 35:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly. And there's just one thing that I would love to create an agreement with.

• 35:16Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 35:17Lewis Howes?

  Can we create this agreement together?

• 35:19Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 35:19Lewis Howes?

  And what support would you need in order for us to have this agreement work?

• 35:23Mel Robbins?

  I said an assistant.

• 35:24Lewis Howes?

  There you go. It's true, though.

• 35:26Mel Robbins?

  But what he said to me was this, he said, "Every time I see those cardboard boxes there, it's like a giant middle finger to me."

• 35:33Lewis Howes?

  Like, "You don't love me, you don't respect me, you don't care about me, you don't appreciate me."

• 35:37Mel Robbins?

  Correct, you think I'm your maid. And I have asked about this. And when he explained it that way, what happened is it tapped into my intrinsic motivation because I value how he feels.

• 35:54Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 35:55Mel Robbins?

  And when he communicated that way, and he let me know, now I am motivated to do it because I know why it matters. And this is really important. When you communicate something to someone, that it matters to you, and they don't do it, you have to let them. And here's why.

• 36:19Lewis Howes?

  Let them, and then what?

• 36:21Mel Robbins?

  It depends on the issue.

• 36:23Lewis Howes?

  Because if he sits you down and says, "This really matters to me."

• 36:25Mel Robbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:26Lewis Howes?

  Cardboard boxes. But it's more about feeling disrespected.

• 36:28Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, but if I repeatedly then ignore it...

• 36:31Lewis Howes?

  Then what?

• 36:31Mel Robbins?

  Well, Chris has to choose.

• 36:33Lewis Howes?

  Choose what?

• 36:34Mel Robbins?

  To either talk to me again, or if it's a big enough issue, Louis, is this the right relationship?

• 36:40Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 36:40Mel Robbins?

  Do I want to be with somebody who I sit down and repeatedly share my feelings and my needs with, and then they do not do anything?

• 36:53Lewis Howes?

  Or they say they will, but then they don't.

• 36:55Mel Robbins?

  Yes, and the behavior shows that I don't matter.

• 36:58Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 37:00Lewis Howes?

  But also, people could say, well, he could also just look at and say, don't take it personally, and just, who cares? Accept that there's who you are, she's not gonna do the boxes, and just let it go. It doesn't matter.

• 37:11Mel Robbins?

  It's deeply personal.

• 37:14Mel Robbins?

  And this is why it's important to understand where your control is. Because what's ultimately gonna happen is if you have an issue with somebody in your life, whether it's your parents, or your boss, or whatever, and you've addressed it in a very mature and loving way, and nothing has changed, it's likely not going to. And then it comes back to you. Let me choose.

• 37:40Lewis Howes?

  What to do next?

• 37:40Mel Robbins?

  Yes. What do I deserve? And if it's somebody who repeatedly, like, let's take it to the context of dating, because this was an example that's kind of funny and relatable.

• 37:50Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 37:50Mel Robbins?

  But if you're in a relationship with somebody, and you want to take it to the next level, and they don't want to put a label on it?

• 37:58Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 37:59Mel Robbins?

  Is, like, are those the table scraps you're gonna take?

• 38:02Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 38:03Mel Robbins?

  If they're sneaking out early in the morning, like some stray cat, is that actually, seriously, is that the love you deserve?

• 38:11Lewis Howes?

  I mean, I get up early to go to the gym, I'm not sneaking out here.

• 38:17Mel Robbins?

  But, you know what I'm saying?

• 38:18Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 38:18Mel Robbins?

  Because what we then do is we go up into our minds, and we start explaining away the behavior.

• 38:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course. You get a little drip of dopamine every once in a while. You're like, oh, I wish I did that more frequently.

• 38:29Mel Robbins?

  Yes, and if only I can be closer to them, if only I can spend more time with them. Maybe if I learn how to play golf, maybe if I, like, that now you're...

• 38:36Lewis Howes?

  And you're changing yourself for someone else.

• 38:38Mel Robbins?

  Changing yourself, because you refuse to let the person reveal who they are.

• 38:42Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 38:43Mel Robbins?

  And there are no mixed signals. You're either a priority, or you're not.

• 38:47Lewis Howes?

  100%.

• 38:48Mel Robbins?

  Period.

• 38:53Lewis Howes?

  What is that like psychologically when you're like, okay, I just ate too much, or I just wanna look skinnier and need to lose weight, but I'm numbing myself by eating because I am protecting myself. I feel ashamed of past or I feel whatever, I'm anxious, so I'm numbing myself by eating. But now I feel shameful and guilty that I ate, so I need to purge it.

• 39:18Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I remember just like getting up, looking in the mirror and being like, I hate you.

• 39:22Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 39:22Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Like, I had so much hate towards myself and I was just, I just had like tears rolling down my face. And I was like, I don't, I don't want this anymore. I don't wanna live like this. I can't live like this because it's going to end badly. I could feel it. And I also knew carrying down that road was like the easy way out because I was so good at taking everything down in my path. But like, you didn't know it, but like, I was. Like mass destruction was a skill that I could, that I had mastered.

• 39:55Lewis Howes?

  Really? But you were looked good on the outside.

• 39:58Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  People are always surprised by this stuff. And that's honestly why I share it and why I felt I needed to because...

• 40:08Lewis Howes?

  But you were good at hiding it though, right? You were gonna be like, okay, it's noon the next day, I'm put together, like, everything's fine, I'm happy.

• 40:15Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Yes. And then, you know, that, that moment there is when I so vividly saw like these two roads of life, right? In this like gorgeous tree in the middle. And I just so vividly remember this moment. And it was like, you can keep going here and we know where that's going to end up. Or you can, you can choose to create this different path for yourself. And it's going to be really hard because it's gonna be everything you don't know.

• 40:56Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  But it can, it's like the path of like waking you the up. And I just remember, I was like, okay, I'm, I, I want it, but I need help. And that was the biggest moment for me because from...

• 41:18Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Being a little girl who thought that she could fix every single thing and like I carried the weight of everyone and my siblings and I have always been the savior and coming in and trying to do all the things and you know buying my parents the house and like anything that I could do to save everyone but I was I was just not saving myself so it was this moment of like giving over

• 41:48Lewis Howes?

  Hmm

• 41:49Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And not relying on my own strength for the first time in my freaking life and that was like that was like the the doors opened

• 41:59Lewis Howes?

  So you're in your mid twenties you have I guess uh you know a darkness that continues for months or years until there's a moment where you're like okay there's two roads I can take I've had a few of those moments in my life so I know that feeling of having to make a decision

• 42:16Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Yes

• 42:17Lewis Howes?

  And um you know I I grew up when I was eight my brother went to prison so every weekend for four and a half years we would go as a family to visit you know during visiting hours and I saw my life starting to go down that as well when I was thirteen I had to make a decision and I remember saying do I want to end up in prison you know because if I keep doing these things which were not massive at the time but will build

• 42:41Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  It builds

• 42:42Lewis Howes?

  It'll build and you're gonna keep getting in trouble and and bad things are gonna happen

• 42:47Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Bad things are gonna happen

• 42:48Lewis Howes?

  Bad things are gonna happen and do I want to live that life and deal with that pain and shame and I just saw what that will you know and I saw all the other convicts in the and I got to know them and the traumas and the pain that they caused their families from bad decisions and it was just like do I want that or not and I and so you had this in your mid twenties And you you knew that you couldn't do it all on your own anymore and you said I need support.

• 43:16Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Yes.

• 43:16Lewis Howes?

  So what did you allow yourself to do after that?

• 43:20Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I called my friend and asked for her therapist's number. I was like, I need help. I need your therapist. And like, that was like the start. But I lied to my, I mean, I like lied to my therapist. I was taking Adderall, you know, I I like, I did want help, but it is really hard to break the cycle.

• 43:41Lewis Howes?

  Sure. Yeah.

• 43:42Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And to break the patterns.

• 43:43Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 43:44Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And I was lying and she would, she was strong. She was like the mother that I always kind of like needed to anchor me and call me out on my.

• 43:53Lewis Howes?

  Tough love.

• 43:54Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Super tough love. So, you know, I would come in, I'll like Adderall'd out and I was like buying Adderall. It was just, it was like, I got rid of one thing and I was looking for the next.

• 44:03Lewis Howes?

  You said you wanted help, but really inside of you, you're like, eh, I still can do this myself and I'm not going to give everyone the full picture and.

• 44:10Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I think I did really want help, but when you are so used to attaching yourself to chaotic things.

• 44:22Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 44:23Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  To keep moving forward, it like, it takes time.

• 44:27Lewis Howes?

  Well, it doesn't feel safe to be in a safe space because you're not, you're not familiar with it.

• 44:31Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Don't even know what that.

• 44:32Lewis Howes?

  So harmony doesn't feel safe.

• 44:35Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Right.

• 44:36Lewis Howes?

  Peace doesn't feel safe.

• 44:37Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  No.

• 44:37Lewis Howes?

  Because you're like, wait.

• 44:38Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  What's gonna happen?

• 44:39Lewis Howes?

  Something's about to happen.

• 44:40Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Yeah.

• 44:40Lewis Howes?

  Where's the chaos?

• 44:41Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Oh, yeah.

• 44:42Lewis Howes?

  You're always looking for it because you're so used to it, it's familiar. So when safe isn't safe and you don't know how to feel calm in harmony, you're always looking to recreate chaos, whether it be in a relationship or whether it be in your own life or addictions or whatever it might be.

• 44:58Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Oh, and I was very good at, if the chaos wasn't there, I will bring it.

• 45:03Lewis Howes?

  Isn't that interesting?

• 45:04Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Oh, my God, in relationships, things with friends, work, like, being able to really self-reflect and see where you are just a disaster in disguise. Like, it is hard work.

• 45:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:22Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And I I will be so honest with you today, like. I still to this day wake up and my first thought first from the moment I wake my eyes after doing this work for so many years goes to a dark place.

• 45:38Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 45:38Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Yes, but I now know how to get myself out and it's just it's I think when it's so embedded in your nervous system.

• 45:51Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  It it's takes so much time to to get yourself out of that place. And I know now I know when I'm I know when I'm bringing it. I know when I'm being self-destructive and I'm definitely so far from that part of me, but she's in there, let me tell you, and I have great access to her if I need her. But which is also a good thing, which I've learned to really embrace and love and be like, you are one fire pistol and like, God knows if we need it, it's there and the access is quick. But I I'm just being honest, I mean, you know.

• 46:33Lewis Howes?

  What is the first thought that comes to you on a daily basis when you wake up or on a typical day? Where does that dark thought go to?

• 46:39Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  It's like the overwhelm. It's just like, oh, my God, oh, that, you know, it's just it's that immediate almost like being on that wheel of anxiety, but I step off now and I'm like, no, no, you know, and this is where I've cultivated this practice and this connection with source and knowing that I can connect at any moment in any time. And that is what helps me see like the light of day and I, you know, I shared this once on I was doing a Q and A and I shared this and it was like the most viewed thing I had

• 47:20Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  and I realized that there is still that part of me, right? That wants to like make things look really pretty with a bow and of course I've cracked myself open, but there's still so much and I think that is where I'm at right now today where I'm like, I am so done just like ripping off these masks and really just being so radically transparent with myself, but also.

• 47:50Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  With people who are ready to do it for themselves too. Cause it's not just for me and I think that's where this work has fueled something in me that I've always known was in there since I was a little girl. But it's.

• 48:08Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  It's this choice every single day, like to this day. It's like I'm choosing, I'm choosing to be devoted to myself.

• 48:17Lewis Howes?

  So when you started, you know, kind of waking up from doing destructive things into creating a more healthy lifestyle for yourself. Fifteen, seventeen years ago.

• 48:25Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Yeah.

• 48:26Lewis Howes?

  Um, and you went down that journey and. And you started these healthy practices. You said, okay, I'm gonna reach out for support. I'm gonna find a therapist, even though I'm still lying to my therapist. I'm doing the, the steps though, and I'm like in the work. And then what, what else did you start doing to develop a healthy practice for yourself?

• 48:45Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Yes.

• 48:45Lewis Howes?

  Were you still nightclubs and, you know, modeling and, and doing these things that weren't supporting you? Or were you removing yourself as well from environments?

• 48:57Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  So instead of like for me, instead of focusing on removing one thing that really helped me when I was in it. And still, when I feel overwhelmed, it's like. What can I add in to help? Like make me feel just an ounce more at ease. And when my therapist started really calling me out on things, then it was like, okay, I can't even lie to her. Like I just, I just have to be honest. So it was like that was, that shtick was old. I couldn't do that anymore. But then I was finding, I was feeling this like, I need to be told. Like I need to be told what to do. So I started seeing a health coach. And I remember the first time I walked in and I was like, okay, give me the diet.

• 49:40Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Like that, I, I was in that mindset of like, tell me the thing, I'll do it and then I'll see results. And you know, I was trying to lose weight because I wanted to be a model and. At this point I had gotten signed by a top agency, but it was like, I, I lost like fifteen pounds. And I lost fifteen pounds and then it was just this.

• 50:04Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Long road of torture.

• 50:06Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 50:06Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Because I thought that I was very into fitness and very into wellness. But my relationship to myself was still so disconnected that I was looking outside of myself for all of the resources. So I was taking what a trainer would tell me to do. You needed to do forty five minutes of cardio and then forty five minutes to an hour of strength training and I became psychotic with that. So it was like every day an hour of this. And I was working out two hours a day, writing down every morsel of food. It was so obsessive.

• 50:41Lewis Howes?

  It's exhausting.

• 50:42Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  It was exhausting. It was unwellness.

• 50:47Lewis Howes?

  Did you feel like you were getting, when you looked in the mirror, were you like, oh, this is working though? Or were you like, I'm still not getting the results I want?

• 50:54Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  So when I was in the height of really just, it was like micromanaging every single thing, I did get really, really thin, but it was unhealthy and I just looked, it was painful.

• 51:07Lewis Howes?

  You didn't feel healthy?

• 51:09Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  No, I didn't feel healthy. And then, plus when you're suffering from eating disorder, the flip can happen too, where then I started gaining a lot of weight. Yeah, I was like, when I was doing all the crazy workouts, HIIT workouts and running myself into the ground, I was actually at my heaviest.

• 51:30Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 51:31Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Yes, because it was just.

• 51:32Lewis Howes?

  The body can't handle it all.

• 51:34Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Pumping my body with cortisol, I was so stressed out going into workouts, stressed out leaving, and that was like a big moment in my life. I remember so vividly leaving a super popular class with a popular instructor and there's no shame because things work differently for people and I think that this is where we need to cultivate these relationships with ourselves and see what really makes you feel in harmony with yourself. And I just remember, I like got off the train, Fourteenth Street, and I was walking and I was like, I feel horrible. How am I paying to feel worse? What is wrong? And I was just like, I think I'm just, I was just searching.

• 52:19Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And then I started meditating. I felt this.

• 52:23Lewis Howes?

  How old are you now, roughly?

• 52:25Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  So this was, at this point, I, it was like.

• 52:34Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Twelve years, fifteen years ago, I'm forty one, you do the math.

• 52:39Lewis Howes?

  Twenty, twenty six, twenty seven.

• 52:41Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Exactly, late twenties. And I've, you know, I still felt this, although I was slowly, it was like becoming more self-aware, like patching things up as I was going, but I felt that I was, I was just out here for all the answers. Tell me and I'll do the thing. And I was covered in cystic acne.

• 53:03Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 53:03Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I had horrifying cystic pimples all over my face, my neck, down my back. And I did everything. It was like I saw every dermatologist. I did Accutane. It was just, oh, it was awful. And now I realize like that was my, how I internalized my anxiety for so many years. It was coming out in my skin. It was the stress. It with a combination of products I was, I was using and food for sure, environment. But it was my nervous system. Like trying to, to wait to like, you know, bang on my door. And I just felt like, you know what? I, I've gotta go in here. Like I, I've, I've gotta like, almost,

• 53:48Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  cause I, I think when you are so dysregulated, you don't even know what home and safety is. So there was just this feeling that I felt I needed to, I needed to take all of that and come in here.

• 54:01Lewis Howes?

  So you started meditating?

• 54:02Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I started meditating. I've meditated every day since.

• 54:05Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 54:05Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And that's how I'm here. And I can tell you that for a fact.

• 54:11Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I know that with everything inside of me because it was the thing that helped me see myself for the first time for like who I really was. And not any persona or facade that I had put on. And I was really interested in wellness, but because my relationship with myself was still so dysfunctional.

• 54:37Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  It was the thing that helped me look in the mirror and like find so much like deep love, like true love for, for me and for my skin and loving myself through my acne and not being at my happy weight and.

• 54:53Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  It just helped me. It was like, almost like, just like defogging the lens. And everything got like a little bit brighter.

• 55:01Lewis Howes?

  Wow. How much on a scale of one to 10? Before this? What was your self-love scale? 10 being like you really loved yourself from an authentic, conscious place. One being you hated yourself. Like, where were you on that?

• 55:16Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I was probably like a three, four.

• 55:19Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 55:19Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  The work that I was doing, from like a

• 55:23Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  from like a one, two. So like, I was, and, and that doesn't sound like progress, but it is.

• 55:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 55:29Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And I think that's the thing that I

• 55:31Lewis Howes?

  So you really hated yourself before that?

• 55:34Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I hated myself because of my actions.

• 55:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 55:38Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I, I wasn't proud.

• 55:40Lewis Howes?

  You were out of like alignment with yourself.

• 55:42Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Complete. Completely disaligned. And when you can, you know, I was, it was very much focused on the physical. And then once I realized that I could regulate from bringing some calm to my mind, even just a little bit. Wow. Then I started moving differently. And this is when I started understanding like, no wonder why. Like, I don't like, those classes are not working for me because they make me feel really stressed out. And anxious. And they bring out all that stuff that I'm like, really working towards shifting. And then I started blending

• 56:25Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  elements of Pilates and yoga. And it was like, I was just weaving these things together, but it felt like this like inner dance with myself. But it felt good.

• 56:36Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 56:36Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And I was not punishing myself for what I ate anymore. And I was just literally in flow. Like, it brought me in this flow state. And at this time, I didn't even have 10,000 followers on Instagram, but I just felt this like, it was like I have no idea how, what, where, like, what you're gonna do, but like you have to share this. And you have to share this because you have to come back to that seven-year-old little girl. Who was looking outside the window when your dad drove away, when my parents separated. And I felt like this is it. Like, this is unfortunately, like, this is the car that I've been dealt, and this is my life.

• 57:20Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And I think so many people who come from broken situations, or even bad marriages, feel like this is it. And it's not it.

• 57:33Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And you can change the course of your life at any point. Every moment is an opportunity to begin again, to do something different than you did the day before. That just helps you feel so deeply connected to yourself. And, you know, I talk a lot about meditation and movement, and that is how I created a platform. But as I'm at this point in my life today, it's from being so connected

• 58:09Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  to whatever it is you connect to, but to me, it's the Creator. It's, it's this higher power so much greater than me. And like, when I close my eyes and I meditate and I go in and I like bring the energy to my heart. It's what, it's like, I feel so surrounded and so safe and just reminded that like I am being divinely guided and we all are. When we can get ourselves to just take a moment, and I, I mean, I did it, I did it in the morning, for 20 minutes this morning, before speaking, I always like to really, really ground. So 20 minutes is like, I love that, however, that doesn't always happen.

• 58:50Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I am so consistent, but I'm super flexible. You have to be, because I was crazy with all the things before, and I'm not, I'm not disciplined. I don't even love the word. It doesn't work for my nervous system because it makes me feel like I'm rigid and I had to write things down. I need to track and I need to, how many macros am I, and I'm just like, I don't know and I don't even care. But when I'm feeling this, where I'm feeling this aliveness and this excitement for, honestly, like, it's so interesting because I feel like I've been there so much, so many deep challenges with work and just all of the things that come with being an entrepreneur. But I am so excited for no reason.

• 59:36Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  It feels so good just to be like, show me, like, guide me. And through staying so deeply connected is what has just continued me on this path of like cracking me open, had me set up that $24 tripod I got on Amazon, setting up my phone. I had no lights, no camera, zero editing. I mean, I literally would, I would press play and I'd be like, hi. And I would go and I'd run back on my mat and then I'd be like, okay, today. And I would just like do the thing that I did myself, but I brought people along with me. And then the more that I started doing it, it was like people were like, like, can you do that longer? Like, where can I get this clip?

• 1:00:20Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And you know, it was like Instagram stories when that first came to life. And then I just felt this, I was like, I need a home for these humans who want the same thing. We all want it. We all want to be, you know, when I come back to like my why every day, I just want to wake people up to this inner strength within themselves. That's it. That's what I have to do for myself every single day. And through sharing it, it was just like, it was crazy. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that I was connecting with people all over the world who were like, thank you so much. And they were writing me these letters and I'm sobbing. And at the, you know, at this point, I'm pregnant with my son.

• 1:01:05Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And also coming to this place of like, I know what it feels like to be brought up. In a disconnected home and that like wanting to be so connected to it all, whether it was a little chaotic or completely, you know, a sense of calm. I just, I wanted to be with it.

• 1:01:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:24Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And it's, it's just been this incredible journey of what's next.

• 1:01:32Lewis Howes?

  That's incredible. The thing that I'm hearing you say, which I really love is that when you started to, it sounds like your seven-year-old self was screaming at you during your adult life, when you were doing things out of alignment with what she wanted. Right? When you weren't protecting her, when you weren't showing up for her, she was screaming at you in different ways. She was like, you know, the acne was coming out, you're, you know, going against, you're going against your body by binge eating or binge drinking or, you know, late nights, all these different things. And she didn't feel safe with you as an adult trying to take care of her because you weren't taking care of her. And so she felt unsafe, right?

• 1:02:17Lewis Howes?

  And when, and when you treat your inner child poorly as an adult, bad things happen in your life and, or you don't feel good, right?

• 1:02:29Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:29Lewis Howes?

  And you're not attracting abundance. You're not setting yourself up to be able to manifest your vision. You're not bringing the right relationships in your life necessarily. And things feel off. You feel out of alignment because you're not taking care of the inner being inside of you that needs cared for. And what it sounds like I'm hearing you say is when you said, okay, these two paths I can take, continued destruction or, you know, reconnecting to self and doing better choices. That's when, when you started and you started to really be present with yourself and take time to listen to the still small voice, which is God, I think, and also your inner child.

• 1:03:14Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Yes.

• 1:03:14Lewis Howes?

  It's almost like the voices of both combining and saying, what does the inner child need and what is God directing me to do?

• 1:03:20Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Love. Exactly.

• 1:03:21Lewis Howes?

  And when you are able to meditate for a minute or twenty minutes a day, or however long you do on a daily basis, you can hear the decisions you need to take today. And you can be guided on what you need to do in the next step. Even though you don't know what's to come, or you feel I'm uncertain, or what should I, what's the future gonna bring? When you can listen to yourself and where you're guided, you can take action on what is needed today. And it sounds like you've been doing that for now ten, fifteen years. And by doing so and continuing to be in alignment with your intuition, by serving your inner child and by serving the higher power for yourself,

• 1:04:04Lewis Howes?

  abundance and manifestation becomes easy.

• 1:04:06Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Hmm.

• 1:04:07Lewis Howes?

  Easier. And you just said like, I didn't even have ten thousand followers. I just started taking these actions and doing what felt right to me and being consistent for ten, fifteen years. And because of that consistent, um, integrated, authentic actions, it's like, ah, manifesting everything. I'm on the cover of these magazines and this is growing and audiences. And wow, these things are just happening for me, right? But if you were going down destructive paths, this wouldn't be happening.

• 1:04:34Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  No, of course not. And that's why I say I know I am here because of my practice.

• 1:04:41Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:04:41Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Because my practice keeps me grounded to myself. It keeps me completely locked in with what matters most to me. And like, the thing that matters most to me in my life is having peaceful balance, peaceful harmony.

• 1:04:55Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:04:56Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  In my life, in my workplace, in my relationship with my family, with my friends, with every single thing that I do. And it's so interesting, the more that I just kind of like give over because I can be a little bossy.

• 1:05:13Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Definitely bossy.

• 1:05:14Lewis Howes?

  You're like my team when they're watching, they know.

• 1:05:17Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  No, they know, but I'm not a micromanager. But I, I am a number eight on the Enneagram and that has really helped me understand as an active controller. That's why I've remained the CEO. No matter what every single person told me that I needed to hire a CEO, I just, it, it never felt a hundred percent. I've tried and tested a lot of things that were other people's ideas and let me tell you, they don't work. I hate to say it. And that's where I'm not always right, but when something feels completely wrong or I have nothing, do nothing.

• 1:05:54Lewis Howes?

  Do nothing.

• 1:05:55Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Nothing. I'm in such a flat place right now and I feel, oh my God.

• 1:06:01Lewis Howes?

  What do you mean? Like you're not taking on new projects? You're not like launching new stuff or what?

• 1:06:05Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I'm just, I am being. And it's wild what happens.

• 1:06:10Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:06:11Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  You like, it just, it's so interesting because you know, there, there is this part like I've, I've tried things. I've had PR. I've done all of these things and I, I think when your mission is so big and you want to really spread your message as far and as wide, you try things. And even when it feels against the grain, but I am such a sensitive, energetic person that I've just really learned that I have to listen to that. And when something just feels like even an ounce of force, like listen, I could have pitched,

• 1:06:49Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  you know, had Dylan on my team, reach out to everyone on all the pod, but I'm like, no, that is not the way for me. It's through true, authentic connections and like I, I just know that, right? It's like, we met in the way that we were meant to meet. You reached out so flu, by the way, it was so nice. I was like, oh, this is just like so me, like so organic and it felt raw. And that's when I think the most incredible things.

• 1:07:18Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:07:19Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Come into your life when you're not gripping.

• 1:07:24Lewis Howes?

  Or forcing.

• 1:07:24Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Or forcing.

• 1:07:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and trusting the timing of things.

• 1:07:27Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Yes.

• 1:07:28Lewis Howes?

  You know, I tell my fiance, Martha, like.

• 1:07:31Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I love her.

• 1:07:31Lewis Howes?

  She's always like, I wish we would have met like 10 years ago, like we would have had such a lot like. Our life would have been so much better and we wouldn't have been through so much pain and relationship breakups and something like that. I'm like. I wouldn't have looked at you the same way 10 years ago because I wasn't ready for you. I wasn't, I wasn't ready to be in a loving, peaceful relationship. Like I wasn't ready. I would have been like, oh, you're like an attractive, like beautiful girl who's really talented, but. You don't have enough wounds for me, you know, it's like you're not a something, you're not a project I need to like.

• 1:08:02Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Fix.

• 1:08:02Lewis Howes?

  Help out or something, right? And I wasn't attracted to that. I wasn't attracted to peace.

• 1:08:08Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Oh.

• 1:08:09Lewis Howes?

  So I would have created, you know, I would have hurt you probably, you know, I'd probably done something wrong or I'd have been like, eh, you know, whatever. I just would have, wouldn't have been ready.

• 1:08:17Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  That's so honest. It's so.

• 1:08:19Lewis Howes?

  And I needed like, I needed to go through my own healing journey to feel ready for peace because I didn't have peace inside of me still. And so I needed to be peace before I could have peace in my environment. And she's like, oh, that makes sense, you know, but, but timing is everything.

• 1:08:38Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I agree with that.

• 1:08:39Lewis Howes?

  And, you know, until sometimes we could have breakdowns, unfortunately, like you had a break, big breakdown when you're in the mid twenties. Then you were ready for a breakthrough, right? And unfortunately, it wasn't sooner, you know, we all wish it was like we had peace and less pain and sadness and, and things we did poorly sooner, but. Timing is everything when you can trust in a higher power. So. Do you believe in God?

• 1:09:07Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I do. For me, it's like the, it, it is this, it's a higher power.

• 1:09:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:12Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And.

• 1:09:13Lewis Howes?

  Where was your life when you weren't believing in a higher power versus where you do now?

• 1:09:19Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I mean, it was disconnected.

• 1:09:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:22Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  There was no anchor.

• 1:09:23Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:09:24Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And. There was no contentment, like, just like feeling.

• 1:09:30Lewis Howes?

  Never happy.

• 1:09:30Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Oh, my God, contentment is such a.

• 1:09:32Lewis Howes?

  Never, never good enough, right?

• 1:09:34Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Never good enough. No, no, no, no. And I, I mean, I relate so much to your story with Martha, who I love, by the way. She's amazing. Um, with Noah, like Noah, I feel like he was like a saving grace in my life. Because he's so calm, he's so grounded. He's like everything that I just was so unknown for me. And it was a massive part of me being able to drop into myself and to really go deep and do the work. Because I felt safe with him and I felt this safe.

• 1:10:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:10Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Sense in my life that really, I think, when you do have that. And it's very important that while he brought so many elements of that, I was discovering it within myself. I wasn't look, I, oh, by the way, when we first started dating, I was like, he's gonna save me. Thank God, I need to be saved. I thought he was gonna save me, he was gonna like, and then he wasn't.

• 1:10:34Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:10:35Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Yes. I remember like, he would wake up in the morning and he was like so happy and he would like, be so excited for his day and I would, I hated what I was doing.

• 1:10:43Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:10:44Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And I was just like, how do you feel like that? And like, how do you find your thing? Like, I was so, I was like, the grip was so tight and I was just searching and he was like, just try to, and I have, I still, it's hard for me to focus. Definitely undiagnosed ADHD. I mean, it's just, uh, it's there. But he said, if you can just like pay attention to like the thing that you're interested in. And for me now, it's like, pay attention to the thing that like lights you up. And just give it a little focus.

• 1:11:21Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:11:21Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Focus a little bit on it. And I was like, okay. And I'm like, what does he mean? Like, I'm fit modeling and then it was funny because during my. Like I would be fitting all day and I like worked as a fit model for years, but I was like making bank.

• 1:11:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:36Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Guaranteed cash.

• 1:11:37Lewis Howes?

  Good money every day.

• 1:11:38Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  It was amazing money and I wasn't like a big model, but I was like, I don't even care anymore because that was exhausting trying with all these supermodels in the room anyway. Like at least I'm making money.

• 1:11:47Lewis Howes?

  You're in a room and they're like fitting like the jeans and the shirts to you and all that stuff. Yeah.

• 1:11:50Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Exactly.

• 1:11:51Lewis Howes?

  So you don't have to like be on for photography to like be in the world stage.

• 1:11:55Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  It's actually like.

• 1:11:56Lewis Howes?

  Not like runway modeling. You're just like, I get to hang out and the designers are just like fitting to me and.

• 1:12:01Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  Yes.

• 1:12:01Lewis Howes?

  And I'm getting good money.

• 1:12:02Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I was making great money and I just remember like when things really kind of turned on where, you know, I would go, I would go to my, my fittings. And maybe the tech designer was like, oh, I'm feeling really tired. And I'm like, well, what is the first thing like, well, how do you go to bed? And what is the first thing you do when you wake up? And then it was like, I was coaching. I started coaching, but I loved it. And then it was like, so when you're unhappy in a situation, or if you don't love your job right now, bring a little joy to the job. You gotta dig a little deep and like that, when I started doing that, wow. First of all, the lights go on and I was like, I am so, I love helping people.

• 1:12:47Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And I was just like a little thing. I'm like, well, take magnesium, turn the lights down, put your phone away. And it's like, nothing's changed.

• 1:12:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:12:53Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I'm still like sharing all of these things, but then I started working. So I, I went to the Institute for Integrative Nutrition online, the online course. And that for me was like, I didn't even want to do it because I hated school and I was like, oh God, you have to take tests. And they're like, it's open book test, but I'm, or you know, and I'm still was like, oh my God, just the idea of taking a test gives me severe anxiety. But I was like, you know what? I'm going to challenge myself. And I remember Noah saying, let me get it for you. Let me pay for the course. And I said, no, thank you, but I have to do it for myself.

• 1:13:27Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:13:27Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  If I let you pay, I'm just going to be like, oh, whatever. I, I knew that. So I was like, I have to earn this.

• 1:13:33Lewis Howes?

  You need to invest in it.

• 1:13:34Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I needed to invest. So doing that and then I started coaching people for free. I, you know, I would meet them in coffee shops and then, and then I, I was, I like pitched myself to this integrative doctor. I was, he'd never worked with health coaches before. He hired me. It was the first, first health coach he ever hired. Dr. Morrison, big shout out to you. Thanks for believing in me. And now he, you know, they have health coaches in their practice. But it was like, listening to that, like the focus for me, really helped me understand that like, okay, I couldn't leave my job because I was making great money. But on the evening, maybe like a couple evenings a week, I put, dedicated a little time and

• 1:14:19Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  then the evenings became weekends and then the weekend became, and then I had people who wanted to pay me. And then I was like getting all these offers and then that was really it. Like that was when I was like, I think I can literally do this.

• 1:14:30Lewis Howes?

  Live off this.

• 1:14:30Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And I started coaching full time and I loved it. But I knew there was something missing. And I'm in that place right now and it's so fun.

• 1:14:38Lewis Howes?

  What was missing?

• 1:14:40Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  I felt like I loved talking through, but when I started blending movement, it like I became alive.

• 1:14:49Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:14:49Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  And that was how I started teaching digitally. And I'd never, I'm not a trainer. I never started teaching in studio. I started teaching online. And then, you know, I feel like even after all of these years of doing this and the love, I love what I do. I am so grateful and so proud of myself that I'm like, you did it and you're still doing it and you're going to keep doing it because the unfolding is what I've learned to really just get excited about, right? And I love speaking and I love being able to spread this, but also to help people apply their lives and their mess and their stuff to like, to really get them there.

• 1:15:33Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:15:34Melissa Wood-Tepperberg?

  To like, hold, you know, it's like handholding and guiding along the way that I feel like is something that I love to do. But there's something that happens when I'm on stage or speaking where I feel, I feel at home.

• 1:15:46Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:15:51Lewis Howes?

  For moms or women who want to be moms, but also want to have their careers or have a dream that they want to pursue their art, their music, or whatever it might be, what do you say to them before they become a mom? It's gotta be one of the hardest things, to be a mom full-time and then have the energy and the thought capacity to create beyond being a mom.

• 1:16:11Rachel Platten?

  Well, it was one of the things that I thought would, I thought that they would be opposites. Before I became a mom, I thought that if I had children, it would steal my creativity, that it would, my creativity would suffer. And what I have learned is that it could not be more, it could not be less true.

• 1:16:32Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:16:32Rachel Platten?

  It is the opposite. My creativity has expanded so much. I mean, think of the act of creating a child. It is the most creative you will ever be in your life. Right? You are literally creating a human. You are so tapped in to divine, to creation.

• 1:16:46Lewis Howes?

  To magic.

• 1:16:47Rachel Platten?

  To magic. Once you create a human, you can create anything. Like, my songs flowed so easy as if God turned on a faucet that just never got shut off. And creating for me is so much more easy and natural and flows. I mean, first of all, the range of what I feel from becoming a mom, as we said earlier, is so much more wide and like wild.

• 1:17:11Lewis Howes?

  And just life experience in general.

• 1:17:12Rachel Platten?

  Life experience, so I have so much to pull from. I mean, I can like harness and transmute all of that terror and grief and rage. I told you, I went down and witnessed. And I can turn them into this beautiful art that still actually sounds joyful somehow. There's joy in the pain that I'm singing about.

• 1:17:30Lewis Howes?

  But how do you have the energy and the capacity to create? You might have ideas and like it might flow when you have energy and time, but when you're a full-time mom and... And even if your, your kids are in school or you have daycare or nanny support every now and then, whether it might be your babysitters for a few hours a day, you're still thinking about your kids all day long. You're still, your body's still responding to healing after a first few years. You're still need energy. You're up all night because your child wants the bed or it needs to come in. They sleep with you and they're kicking you all night or whatever it is. It's beautiful, but it's also challenging. Like, how do you have energy during the day to be a full-time mom, a full-time creator and bringing the money to support family?

• 1:18:14Rachel Platten?

  Well, first of all, my husband has since started working for me and now is a partner. And so it's amazing. He's bringing more income in from having come in and transformed my business. So it's not all on me anymore. And that has been a gigantic relief.

• 1:18:27Lewis Howes?

  It's big.

• 1:18:27Rachel Platten?

  Yeah, it's amazing.

• 1:18:28Lewis Howes?

  For women that just want to generate money. You know, they want to make money also as well as being moms.

• 1:18:33Rachel Platten?

  I have two things. I have two thoughts on this. One is, I want you to think about the busiest time in your life. How productive were you when you only had a 30 minutes to be productive?

• 1:18:43Lewis Howes?

  Very productive.

• 1:18:44Rachel Platten?

  Versus when you had nothing going on and you had all day.

• 1:18:47Lewis Howes?

  Very productive, but there's a time you're gonna crash at some point. You're doing that every day for months.

• 1:18:52Rachel Platten?

  I crashed this morning, but Taylor taught me, Taylor Swift taught me, when I, Fights on was exploding and we were like, and I met her and I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. I have to be in Paris and then Japan and then I don't, I don't know how to do this. And she said, you aren't gonna have days off. You are gonna have moments off. You're gonna, you're gonna

• 1:19:11Rachel Platten?

  draw all your energy back in, in moments at a time. So that's one thing. Like, I can't look right now at my calendar. My calendar's insane. I cannot look at it for the next three months. It is packed every day. It's insane, but...

• 1:19:23Lewis Howes?

  But this is a season of life too.

• 1:19:24Rachel Platten?

  It's a season. It's three months. Exactly. Exactly.

• 1:19:27Lewis Howes?

  You're all in.

• 1:19:28Rachel Platten?

  I'm all in. My husband and I are all in. We have everyone around us supporting us.

• 1:19:33Lewis Howes?

  You're saying yes to everything.

• 1:19:33Rachel Platten?

  My team is like, yep. So that's where I'm at right now. It's just a season. I've been doing this long enough to know now this isn't forever. This is right now. I also have incredible moments off. And days off and weeks off because of the career I chose. So there will be a lull and I will get to be around my babies all day long and it will be delicious. Okay, that's my one thought. And then the other thought I have is that my spiritual practice has been absolutely essential in keeping my energy up. I didn't have this tool before. I didn't have this deep connection to God before. And now that I do, I literally give it to God. I literally say, you do it. I write, I want to show you what I write. I want to show you.

• 1:20:15Lewis Howes?

  What do you say?

• 1:20:15Rachel Platten?

  I make a check mark for God. And before a show, I do it before something I'm scared of, before a day, before an intense performance. I literally write a list of what I'm scared of. I made this up. I don't know if this is like, people are gonna listen and be like, what the hell are you talking about? But I want you to imagine three columns. The first column, I write down all my fears and all my worries and all my stress. The second column, I write down my job. And I write.

• 1:20:38Lewis Howes?

  Like, what do you mean?

• 1:20:39Rachel Platten?

  Like, okay, I'll tell you. I'll give you an example. Let's say I was doing one about the Lewis podcast. I'm nervous. I love Lewis. This podcast is huge. I want to do a good job. I want people to, I want to come off well. I want people to go listen to my music. I want to be successful, right? What is my job? My job, what God tells me my job is, is to breathe, be in the moment, give it to Him, and have fun. That's it. That's my job. And then I write the third column, what's God's job? And on God's column is everything.

• 1:21:07Lewis Howes?

  Everything.

• 1:21:08Rachel Platten?

  Make it go so well. Make me adorable, hilarious, funny, charming. You do it. And then like, make it the most successful pod. Make Lewis love it. And like, whatever. God has all this to do. And then I make a checkbox for Him and I crack up and I write, I'm like, right on it. Go, God, go. Yay, God. Don't worry. You can do it, God. And I cheer Him on. It's like ridiculous. It's like so ridiculous. And then I crack up because I look at my job versus God's job and I'm like, oh, bro, you have a lot of work to do. I'm gonna go chill, but good luck to you. And then I come back and I remember to check him off and I give him A pluses. And I'm like, very good job. And I like give him stickers and he has not failed me ever. And that's what I do for energy.

• 1:21:49Lewis Howes?

  What do you think is the difference between putting all the weight and pressure on you to do a good job and perform versus

• 1:21:56Rachel Platten?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:21:56Lewis Howes?

  Allowing God in your life to deliver.

• 1:21:59Rachel Platten?

  I don't have to do anything. I have to show up. I have to show up and I have to be the clearest vase that I can. God is the flowers. My job is literally just to be the clearest vase for people to see them. And that's hard work. It takes hard work to be a clear vase, but I can do that. I can't shine and shimmer. I can't guarantee people will love me. I can't be delightful and perfect and pleasing, right? But I can do my work to be a clear vase. I can meditate. I can do my breath work. I can have therapy. I can work out. I can keep my body healthy. I can keep my mind healthy. That's my job in being a clear vase, right? And the pressure's off other than that. My job is not, what are people are going to think of me? My job is not, how am I going to come off? What is the success going to be? What is the result going to be? It is literally just to be the best version I can.

• 1:22:44Lewis Howes?

  When did you start this practice of of giving it up to God?

• 1:22:48Rachel Platten?

  In the middle of the darkest depression, when I had no other choice.

• 1:22:51Lewis Howes?

  Couple of years ago?

• 1:22:52Rachel Platten?

  Yeah, a couple of years ago, when I was completely at a loss on my knees in the studio that you came to a couple of times on my knees in the middle of the night at 2am. My baby had had a hundred five degree temperature that night. She was two months old. My husband had a passing a kidney stone. I wasn't sleeping. I was absolutely at the lowest. My uncle just died. I was at the lowest I've ever been in my life. I was terrified. I didn't know how to keep going. And I screamed on the floor of my studio, mercy, mercy, I'm done, mercy. And this song came out of me, this song mercy came out of me at two in the morning. Like all at once, this rush, this answer of of music.

• 1:23:42Rachel Platten?

  I felt a presence that I'd never felt in my life. And I've always written with something, but I didn't know what it was that was flowing through me. And that night, I knew without a doubt that that beautiful piece of art came through that pain. There had to be something bigger than me in this world that was listening. And from then, I just was so hungry for it. And I sought it out and I asked and I searched and I and I implored God, keep showing yourself to me. Please, please, please keep delighting me, keep helping me, keep healing me. And he did over and over. And music came, music came, music came, like so much music.

• 1:24:21Lewis Howes?

  Did you have a relationship to God before then?

• 1:24:24Rachel Platten?

  I think I did, but I didn't know him and I and I I didn't know. I didn't understand that he was actually like listening to me and and right there and right here in my heart. And and that it was someone that I didn't have to go through someone else to get to. That was the other thing about LA and that this world that we're kind of entrenched in that I think messed me up. I kept thinking there needed to be this intermediary to get me to God. Like, okay, I'd go to like a medical intuitive or an intuitive or a psychic. Or a Reiki person, they connect me. And I was so desperate for it that I'd go all the time. Like, I want that, I want to understand how to reach, you know, my Creator and you know how to do it for me, so you do it.

• 1:25:06Rachel Platten?

  And I'd ask people to pray for me for things and like, because I had so much fear and that's where the aloneness felt like.

• 1:25:13Lewis Howes?

  What were you afraid of?

• 1:25:14Rachel Platten?

  Being alone, like being that no one would be there when I went to ask. That no one would hear me, like, do you feel loved by God? Do you feel a connection?

• 1:25:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I do. I didn't always though. I mean, growing up, I felt very insecure, very, very alone.

• 1:25:30Rachel Platten?

  Yeah, me too.

• 1:25:31Lewis Howes?

  I used to go to the principal's office all the time in elementary school and just say, I wish I were dead. I wish I were dead over and over again because I felt like no one cared. Obviously, my parents were there for me, you know, obviously, like, you know, my siblings, but it's just, you know, I just felt alone. And it didn't probably matter how much someone loved me. I didn't know how to receive the love probably also.

• 1:25:54Lewis Howes?

  And so for years, it wasn't until maybe ten, eleven years ago, when I started my healing journey, where I felt a deeper sense of love for self and love for God.

• 1:26:04Rachel Platten?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:05Rachel Platten?

  Thank you for sharing that.

• 1:26:06Lewis Howes?

  Of course, yeah, but it's

• 1:26:07Rachel Platten?

  I know the feeling.

• 1:26:08Lewis Howes?

  It's challenging.

• 1:26:09Rachel Platten?

  I know the feeling.

• 1:26:10Lewis Howes?

  And so everything for me was driving, you know, I can relate to you because I was driven for so long to succeed, to feel loved and accepted.

• 1:26:18Rachel Platten?

  Exactly.

• 1:26:19Lewis Howes?

  But then it never felt like enough. It never felt like, oh, I'm not getting what I truly want, so let me go get more.

• 1:26:24Rachel Platten?

  Right.

• 1:26:24Lewis Howes?

  And keep accomplishing.

• 1:26:26Rachel Platten?

  Exactly.

• 1:26:26Lewis Howes?

  And things started to shift for me ten years ago where I said, I want to, I want to create my life based on a vision that I have to serve people.

• 1:26:38Rachel Platten?

  Yes.

• 1:26:39Lewis Howes?

  And if I have a dream to write a book or something else, and I can still go for goals, but it needs to be in the service of others.

• 1:26:48Rachel Platten?

  It needs to be in service is fundamental now in anything I do. I am exactly the same, Louis. I same, we are so similar in our journeys. I needed to achieve more and more and more, and we are both very driven people and we have achieved a lot. And we have both been through the school of greatness and we have achieved great things and all of your guests have, and probably most of your listeners do like, but what we've found is that there is an emptiness in it. Right? Unless it is of service, unless you are being asked to be used, unless like you are striving is for a bigger purpose.

• 1:27:24Lewis Howes?

  So when you're on your knees screaming mercy at two AM in the back of your house.

• 1:27:29Rachel Platten?

  You're like, did neighbors call?

• 1:27:33Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious, like, did you feel a connection to God then?

• 1:27:37Rachel Platten?

  I did.

• 1:27:37Lewis Howes?

  Was it like the first time you really felt a connection? And if so, what did you hear or experience or notice?

• 1:27:45Rachel Platten?

  Yeah, crying thinking about it because it was so.

• 1:27:49Rachel Platten?

  I mean, it was so powerful. And it shifted me so much and just, I mean, for me, God talks to me through songs and songwriting. So this song that came out of me. It's one of my favorite songs I've ever written. And the fact that I wrote it in 20 minutes was very obvious that it wasn't me writing it.

• 1:28:08Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:28:08Rachel Platten?

  So it was

• 1:28:09Lewis Howes?

  Just came through you quickly.

• 1:28:10Rachel Platten?

  It came through me very quickly. It was almost like I was chasing it. And I was like, slow down, slow down, slow down. I'm trying. I'm slow down. I kept saying, slow down.

• 1:28:17Lewis Howes?

  Like the words are coming to you.

• 1:28:19Rachel Platten?

  The words were coming. Like, I was like, stop, stop, stop. And my hands couldn't write fast enough. And I was like, please, please slow down. I kept saying out loud to anyone, slow down. And it just was coming and coming. And I was like, oh, my God, here's the first. Okay, get back to the piano. Oh, my God. And it felt like like an orgasm.

• 1:28:36Lewis Howes?

  A musical orgasm.

• 1:28:37Rachel Platten?

  It was just wild. And I had been in so much pain and so much suffering.

• 1:28:42Lewis Howes?

  You traded peace, you traded freedom.

• 1:28:44Rachel Platten?

  It felt like a taste of freedom. Now, it was, it did not last.

• 1:28:47Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 1:28:48Rachel Platten?

  Like, the song happened. It was incredible. I woke my husband up. I shook him. I was like, come downstairs. I think he had just got back from the hospital. He was exhausted. He was like, oh, no.

• 1:28:59Lewis Howes?

  You're both exhausted.

• 1:29:00Rachel Platten?

  Like, please don't make me wake up to hear a song of yours, because if I don't like this song right now, I am

• 1:29:05Lewis Howes?

  Why'd you wake me up?

• 1:29:05Rachel Platten?

  So screwed. Like, he's like, I better like this song, because you are so not okay right now. And I was like, no, no, Kevin, it's, it's good. And I played it for him with tears in my eyes.

• 1:29:15Lewis Howes?

  But you played it live or you recorded it already?

• 1:29:16Rachel Platten?

  No, no, no. I, I just, I, come on, I did not.

• 1:29:19Lewis Howes?

  I didn't know if you like recorded on your iPhone real quick.

• 1:29:21Rachel Platten?

  No, I did. But like, I had, I did. I captured it. I actually have the recording of me.

• 1:29:25Lewis Howes?

  The original?

• 1:29:25Rachel Platten?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:26Lewis Howes?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 1:29:26Rachel Platten?

  Me crying through it. And I'm like, I go, in one part, I go, oh, that's good. And I'm like, wow.

• 1:29:32Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 1:29:33Rachel Platten?

  And then I go, oh, that's good. Yeah, you hear me. And then I throw the pen down. You can hear it all. But I'd wake him up and I'd bring him down and I'd sing it for him and his jaw is on the floor and he's like.

• 1:29:45Rachel Platten?

  What? What? And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think, I think God's using me. I think that there's a reason that I'm, I was like, I think there's a reason I'm suffering so much right now.

• 1:30:00Rachel Platten?

  But I still had to suffer for two more years. So like, it wasn't all great.

• 1:30:05Lewis Howes?

  Do you think we have to suffer to create something great?

• 1:30:07Rachel Platten?

  Oh, my God, this sucks because I used to like vehemently argue that, no, I was so.

• 1:30:13Lewis Howes?

  But Fight Song, you weren't suffering.

• 1:30:14Rachel Platten?

  Yes, I was.

• 1:30:15Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:30:16Rachel Platten?

  Yes, you think Fight Song was born from like a chill experience?

• 1:30:20Lewis Howes?

  But sometimes you hear people saying they created like a love song out of just like.

• 1:30:23Rachel Platten?

  Yeah, I love, like, who are they? I'm so annoyed with them.

• 1:30:26Lewis Howes?

  The Beatles seem to create stuff all the time.

• 1:30:28Rachel Platten?

  Sure did, didn't they? They seem to be having a great time.

• 1:30:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, right?

• 1:30:31Rachel Platten?

  I know, other people do. I don't know what it is with me and God and the muse and like what happens. But apparently for me to really reach the depths of things that reach other people, I have to for some reason. I mean, it's a transmutation. It's alchemy for me. It isn't for everybody, but it is for me. I alchemize my deep pain and I turn it into art. And that's what my vibe is. And now I've just come to accept it like, cool, cool, cool. We're gonna work again and we're gonna create again. That means I'm probably gonna be crying and, but I mean, it's not all that. I have songs on the record that are also joyful and silly and fun. Like, I'm exaggerating. Better Place was written with me delicately looking out at like a beautiful ray of sun on the trees. So like, they're not all like that. It's just that.

• 1:31:14Lewis Howes?

  That moment created a song, though.

• 1:31:16Rachel Platten?

  Yeah, usually the ones that move people the most, for some reason for me, are those. I'm not the artist that people turn to, I don't think, for like the party song. I think they come to me to feel.

• 1:31:24Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Wow, okay. So since that happened, you feel like you've had a different relationship to God?

• 1:31:32Rachel Platten?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:31:33Lewis Howes?

  And what is that relationship now, two years later?

• 1:31:36Rachel Platten?

  Hmm, it's really intimate and great.

• 1:31:39Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:31:39Rachel Platten?

  I love him.

• 1:31:40Lewis Howes?

  So you feel like you have a direct channel to God? You don't have to go to someone else?

• 1:31:44Rachel Platten?

  No, I would never think to go to someone else. How crea- that idea seems so wild to me now. Why would anyone else have my answers? That doesn't make any sense to me now. I write every day these dear love letters that Elizabeth Gilbert is doing. Have you seen this?

• 1:31:59Lewis Howes?

  Well, she's asked me to do, write one.

• 1:32:01Rachel Platten?

  Louis!

• 1:32:01Lewis Howes?

  I've been.

• 1:32:02Rachel Platten?

  Why aren't you doing it? I'm so annoyed with you for turning it down.

• 1:32:06Lewis Howes?

  I had to turn it down. I said, yes, I'll do it.

• 1:32:08Rachel Platten?

  Immediately, you have to do it.

• 1:32:09Lewis Howes?

  I saw yours. I saw the newsletter that she sent out with yours. Yeah. Really powerful.

• 1:32:14Rachel Platten?

  I didn't write it.

• 1:32:15Lewis Howes?

  Right, exactly.

• 1:32:16Rachel Platten?

  I wrote it, but yeah.

• 1:32:17Lewis Howes?

  You shared it. You put it out there.

• 1:32:18Rachel Platten?

  So she writes these letters.

• 1:32:19Lewis Howes?

  I have it in my inbox for me to do. I've just been traveling.

• 1:32:22Rachel Platten?

  Oh my God, I'm so annoyed at you. I've so annoyed. Please do it. I want to hear what love says to you. And she calls it love. Maybe that's a more palatable, palatable word for everyone listening. And exchangeable for me. She calls it universal love. God, it triggers people that word. But I, what I'm saying when I say that is the one, the creator, the divine, that force of love in the world. And so we write every week, dear love, what would you have me know today? And when you think that you're going to be like, you think it's not going to be the answer, right? You think you're not going to hear anything? Oh my God. Literally, oh my God, answers pour out of you. And these are just women, men, normal women and men living their life. These aren't spiritual necessarily, like holy people.

• 1:33:06Rachel Platten?

  These are just people just like us who are hungry for answers, who put their request out there and they get met with a flood of love and answers and support. And now there's a community on her Substack of over 100,000 people that are sharing these letters every day with each other. And it is unbelievably beautiful. I think it's the most beautiful place on the internet.

• 1:33:32Lewis Howes?

  I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy. And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier. You want to make it flow. You want to feel abundant. Then make sure to go to makemoneymeasbook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment, moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to the next episode on the School of Greatness.

• 1:34:13Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

• 1:34:57Lewis Howes?

  And now it's time to go out there and do something great.