I Discovered My Husband’s Secret in Vegas

On today’s episode, we hear about: A wife who just discovered her husband has a gambling problem A woman trying to repair her marriage after dropping an emotional bomb A young man wondering how to talk to his friend about excessive drinking Next Steps: 🏦 Pull your annual credit report for free. 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: Need to talk to someone? BetterHelp is virtual therapy when it’s convenient for you. Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. These are BEST sheets and towels in the world. Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. Getting lots of spam calls? DeleteMe can clean up your online presence for you. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Find peace every day. Hallow is the simplest way to slow down and get your head right for the day. Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. I have Helix Midnight mattresses in EVERY bedroom in my house. Get 20% off when you visit Helix Sleep and take the sleep quiz to see what you need! Get the exact same green and red powder that I take every day. Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi. I took Thorne supplements way before I worked at Ramsey. Stoked that we can work together now! Get 25% off for LIFE at Thorne. Need a training plan? Accountability? Coaching? Trainwell has you covered. Go to Trainwell to get started! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  I then got into the bank account and did some digging and discovered that he had gone to the casino 17 times in the previous month. He had spent almost $3,000 at the casino.

• 0:17Dr. John Delony?

  By the end of the day, I want every single credit report pulled on everybody.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 0:21Dr. John Delony?

  You don't fully know how bad this is.

• 0:29Dr. John Delony?

  What's up? What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee. Taking your calls on your marriage, your kids, your mental and emotional health, whatever you've got going on in your life. Go to johndeloney.com/ask and fill out the form and we will get you loaded in. And I'd love to have you on the show. Real people are going through really tough challenges. All right, Chicago, Illinois. Let's talk to Elise. What's up, Elise?

• 0:58Speaker 00

  Hi there. How's it going?

• 0:59Dr. John Delony?

  I'm doing all right. How about you?

• 1:01Speaker 00

  I'm doing pretty good.

• 1:02Dr. John Delony?

  What's up?

• 1:03Speaker 00

  So, my question is how to kind of support and navigate a spouse that has a gambling problem.

• 1:11Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, gosh. What a nightmare.

• 1:13Speaker 00

  I know. Not a fun one.

• 1:15Dr. John Delony?

  How bad is it?

• 1:16Speaker 00

  Um, well, just a little backstory. Um, he, we've been married a long time, um, since high school. We've been together since high school, but he always managed all of the finances. So, um, I never even really paid too much attention. I never logged into the bank account, nothing. I kind of had blinders on, I guess. And so, um, fast forward to probably about a year or two ago, I started getting that feeling of like, okay, we make decent money, but like, we never have any money. We're always scraping by. He's always like complaining that, you know, you know, he's having a hard time paying bills and

• 1:59Speaker 00

  things. And I was like, okay, things aren't adding up. It doesn't make sense, right? So, um, I started to kind of do some digging on my own, um, which ended up turning into kind of a huge blow up about probably six months ago. Where I kind of uncovered that, you know, he had been gambling a lot more than he was admitting to and was spending way more money than I thought that he was. So I kind of confronted him. We had a nice chat about it. He, I kind of told him, these are the things that I need from you or want from you to kind of move forward. And so one of those was, let's have

• 2:40Speaker 00

  a weekly, like, talk about our finances. I wanted to start, like, couples therapy, a couple other things. Well, fast forward to now, none of that stuff has stuck.

• 2:52Dr. John Delony?

  Why didn't you demand it?

• 2:55Speaker 00

  Um, I don't know. I don't have a good answer for that. I think I kind of wanted to, like, give him the benefit of the doubt, I guess.

• 3:01Dr. John Delony?

  I don't think that's it. I think you didn't want to take him on.

• 3:04Speaker 00

  That's probably true.

• 3:05Dr. John Delony?

  How come?

• 3:06Speaker 00

  Uh, because I never have. I've always kind of let him take the reins on everything, and I've sort of, um, never really pushed for what I want or need, I guess, in our marriage.

• 3:21Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, before we go forward, he's clearly got a problem. He's clearly not doing well. But I just want you to take your ownership part of this.

• 3:28Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 3:29Dr. John Delony?

  That you found out, like, actually, you, you didn't even want to look. You had blinders on, like you said, forever. How long, how long have you all been married?

• 3:36Speaker 00

  Uh, 17 years.

• 3:37Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so, so for 16 years, you're just buried your head in the sand. I don't want to know. And my gut tells me that your gut told you long before you finally called it.

• 3:47Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 3:48Dr. John Delony?

  Like, and he probably has some tells on when he's spinning out and trying to cover losses and whatever. And you just buried your head. And then you finally called him on it, and you said, this is my demands. And then you just put your head back in the dirt, right?

• 4:03Speaker 00

  Right.

• 4:04Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, then what happened?

• 4:07Speaker 00

  So, um, I found out that we are late on some of the bills that are obviously the main bills, like our house, car, etc. Um, and so then I kind of, um, confronted him about it again. We had a talk last week and, um, I actually decided that, we both work full-time, so I told him that I already made the decision. I opened my own bank account and I changed my direct deposit to go to my own account, um, so that I can kind of take over and make sure that our major bills are paid. But that doesn't fix the problem, you know?

• 4:52Speaker 00

  Like, there's something underlying that is causing him to do it and I don't know what that is and, um...

• 5:00Dr. John Delony?

  What did you find out a couple of weeks ago?

• 5:03Speaker 00

  Like, as far as the finances?

• 5:08Dr. John Delony?

  Uh-huh. Was there, after you all had your big talk six months ago, and then I guess nothing really changed and he just kept gambling and gambling? Was there a big, was there a big something that happened? Did he lose a ton of money? Or, how'd you find out again?

• 5:20Speaker 00

  Um, well, I had to go out of town with one of our kids for a sporting event and, um, when I got home that, um, that Sunday, he told me we were gonna overdraw. And it didn't make sense because I had just gotten paid on Friday. And so I was like, how did we go through my whole paycheck in a matter of, you know, two days? And so, um, I then got into the bank account and did some digging and discovered that he had gone to the casino, um, about seventeen times in the previous month, so last month, and that he had spent almost three thousand dollars at the casino. But then didn't make the house payment, didn't make the car payment, so...

• 6:07Speaker 00

  Then I kind of was like, alright, this is obviously a problem. We gotta talk about this. And, uh, and here we are.

• 6:14Dr. John Delony?

  So, have you pulled all your credit reports?

• 6:19Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 6:20Dr. John Delony?

  So you've pulled his, you've pulled yours. Have you pulled credit reports on all your kids too?

• 6:24Speaker 00

  Uh, okay, so no. I have not pulled his myself, and I've not pulled my kids, but I do know, I have pulled mine.

• 6:31Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, by the end of the day, I want every single credit report pulled on everybody.

• 6:35Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 6:36Dr. John Delony?

  You don't fully know how bad this is.

• 6:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:40Dr. John Delony?

  And if, when you start getting to not making house payments, I'm promising you, it's not because of a $3,000 expenditure. You don't go to a casino 17 times and only transf- like, play with three grand over the course of 17 times.

• 6:56Speaker 00

  Right.

• 6:57Dr. John Delony?

  You know what I mean? Like, that's, that, that would be so abnormal, especially for somebody who's struggling with gambling addiction.

• 7:03Speaker 00

  That makes sense, yeah.

• 7:04Dr. John Delony?

  And who knows what's happening on his phone? The, the online gambling is just, it's destroying families.

• 7:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:12Dr. John Delony?

  And it's disproportionately destroying men. Um, they gamble all day, every day. They don't even have to go to a casino. The fact that he went to a casino tells me, I don't, I mean, I don't, it's just gonna be conjecture, but, um, yeah, you're right to open a checking account to make sure you can pay your house, you don't lose your home.

• 7:30Speaker 00

  Right.

• 7:31Dr. John Delony?

  I'm almost gonna guarantee you, this is gonna get way, way worse before it gets better, because you don't think you know the bottom of it yet.

• 7:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:40Dr. John Delony?

  And so, but he's gotta pull his credit report ASAP, and y'all find out what you're on the hook for. It would not surprise me if there's a HELOC out on your home. It wouldn't surprise me if, um, there's stuff in pawn shops, or it would surprise me if he's got a huge line of credit somewhere with credit cards or with the banks, I mean, like, I don't know, I just do this for a living, and these gambling calls are getting more and more and more pervasive, and they're getting more and more pernicious. They're just a mess right now.

• 8:08Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, because what I know of is, I, I know he's taken out some personal loans, um, and I, you know, he admitted to those when we had our talk last week, but

• 8:20Dr. John Delony?

  So I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't listen-

• 8:22Speaker 00

  I think there's stuff he hasn't admitted.

• 8:24Dr. John Delony?

  His admission means nothing to me now.

• 8:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:27Dr. John Delony?

  Could care less what he's told me about. I want to see it with my own eyes.

• 8:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:32Dr. John Delony?

  And for you, here's your homework assignment is to go get the last two or three years of bank statements.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:40Dr. John Delony?

  When go with a ruler and go down line by line by line. Print them out.

• 8:47Dr. John Delony?

  And write down in a ledger, cash withdrawals, write down in a ledger, like, I want you to get to the bottom, because here's the thing. You're equally as pissed off at yourself.

• 8:57Speaker 00

  Oh, for sure.

• 8:58Dr. John Delony?

  And you're gonna just spin and spin and spin and spin, and your tendency over the last almost 20 years is just to put your head in the sand.

• 9:07Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 9:07Dr. John Delony?

  And for the sake of your kids, you can't do that.

• 9:10Speaker 00

  Right.

• 9:11Dr. John Delony?

  Like, you're gonna have to take this thing by the horns.

• 9:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:15Dr. John Delony?

  And you would be a very, very fortunate, fortunate woman to have this not be a way bigger mess than you think. But I don't care what he's told me. I don't care what he has convinced me of. I don't care what he's admitted to. None of that matters anymore. I want to see, print off everything. We're gonna get to the bottom of how bad this is.

• 9:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:35Dr. John Delony?

  And on his credit report, it will show any open accounts, because he may have his own separate checking account, too.

• 9:41Speaker 00

  Right, I don't know.

• 9:42Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, exactly. And here's the deal. He's earned that. You'll have both earned this.

• 9:49Dr. John Delony?

  And so, but he's earned, like, he's earned the right, you've earned the right to go look in everything.

• 9:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:58Dr. John Delony?

  And when he says, "You don't trust me?" Absolutely not. Zero, zero do I trust you. None.

• 10:05Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 10:06Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, again, I don't want to keep piling on here, and I'm saying this much for the audiences, for you. Gambling has also become the easiest way to pass off getting caught in an affair. What do you mean, there's $3,000 gone? Oh, no, I've been gambling. I got a problem.

• 10:21Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:22Dr. John Delony?

  And so, I want to know where all of this money's going, and if you find hotels, if you find Airbnbs, whatever, that wouldn't surprise me. Nothing in this case surprises me.

• 10:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. And that's kind of where my head goes to, is like, if I, if you've been lying to me about this and kind of covering this up, like, what else could you be lying about?

• 10:41Dr. John Delony?

  But I want you to sit down and have the conversation with him. I let this go on in my life.

• 10:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:48Dr. John Delony?

  And so, I am refusing to let this go on one step further. And it sounds like if you're unsafe physically and that's why you haven't taken him on for all these years, then you're gonna have to deal with that. You're gonna have to get out of the house. If it's emotional and he's just loud, or he's a baby, or he cried, whatever, you're gonna have to, you're gonna have to navigate your safety here. There's usually a reason why somebody doesn't take somebody on for 20 years.

• 11:13Speaker 00

  It's the latter.

• 11:14Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, alright. So it's part, here's how the conversation goes. Here's your prompt I'm gonna give you. Sit down tonight and say, hey, I've had some time to spin this up and think this through. I need you to not, no crying, no whining, no, um, throwing a fit. I need you to be a grown man here at this table. And I'm gonna be a grown woman. I failed our marriage by letting this thing go on for 20 years and let, left you out in the wind. And you failed this marriage by continually keeping secrets in line to all of us and then just pissing our money away. So from this point forward, you're gonna have a new wife and it's gonna be day one, and I'm

• 11:55Dr. John Delony?

  gonna be involved in every single thing. Here's all the credit reports, here's our kids' credit reports, I'm going through everything. And if he goes, are you kidding me? You pulled the kids? Yes, I did. Every single thing I wanna know. Because you, you Elise, are not gonna be able to walk through your own house because you don't trust yourself either.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  Right.

• 12:15Dr. John Delony?

  So part of this, like, standing up tall, throwing your head back, throwing your shoulders back, is I'm gonna prove to myself that I can walk through this thing and take on my husband, take on the safety of our kids, take on the safety of our financial future, and you don't know, Elise, what you're connected to. I'm glad that you pulled your credit report. You had nothing pulled on you or anything like that?

• 12:35Speaker 00

  Um, the, there was a few, like, personal loans that he had taken out that were, that have my name on them as well.

• 12:43Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, hell no. Oh, my gosh. Yes. You're on the hook for him.

• 12:47Speaker 00

  Yeah. Right.

• 12:48Dr. John Delony?

  If he moves out tomorrow, you're on the hook for that.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  Right.

• 12:52Dr. John Delony?

  How much did he tell, how much have y'all figured up via him that you're in the hole?

• 12:57Speaker 00

  Uh, probably around 20 grand.

• 13:03Dr. John Delony?

  I bet it's triple that.

• 13:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:07Dr. John Delony?

  And, and I cannot tell you how hopeful I am that I'm wrong. I hope I'm so wrong on that.

• 13:14Speaker 00

  Right.

• 13:17Dr. John Delony?

  And if you're off, I mean, if you're off 20 grand, man, you're a lucky, lucky person.

• 13:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:25Dr. John Delony?

  Because y'all can solve that problem pretty quick with some discipline. And then the next thing is, he's got to start seeing, going to Gamble Anonymous tomorrow.

• 13:33Speaker 00

  And what if he doesn't?

• 13:35Dr. John Delony?

  Then you have a choice to make.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:38Dr. John Delony?

  Or he has a choice to make.

• 13:40Speaker 00

  Because I did already, yeah, because I already recommended that I thought he needed to get professional help.

• 13:44Dr. John Delony?

  We're done with recommendations.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:46Dr. John Delony?

  Because he's taking out loans in your name, Elise.

• 13:49Speaker 00

  Right.

• 13:51Dr. John Delony?

  Like, he's making you, in my world, I call that financial infidelity.

• 13:56Speaker 00

  Right.

• 13:59Dr. John Delony?

  He's bringing other people in this place, bankers, into your marriage, into your relationships, into your safety, into your ability to provide for yourself and for your kids.

• 14:11Dr. John Delony?

  And so, there's got to be a line in the sand, but you get to decide what that is. You might say, you know what, I married a gambler, this is what this is, and we're going to figure this out, and it's only 20 grand, and I'm going to go on and pretend nothing's going on. You can do that. Or you can say, if you gamble again, you are choosing to move out of this house.

• 14:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:29Dr. John Delony?

  If you are gambling again, and by the way, I would put a stop on your credit, and I'd put a stop on your kid's credit.

• 14:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:37Dr. John Delony?

  So that he can't pull any more, open any more lines of credit.

• 14:43Dr. John Delony?

  They'll contact you if somebody tries to pull, open up a line of credit on it.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 14:49Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? Here's my fear, I'm going to paint you a worst-case scenario. My fear is, this is real bad, and he's going to start panicking in the next few days, because he thinks he's got you soothed over now, and because of how you've acted in the past, he's probably right to think that, and he's going to go pull something else out to cover how big this mess actually is.

• 15:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:13Dr. John Delony?

  And then he's going to move out, and you're going to find out, and you're going to kick him out, or whatever, and then it's going to be a disaster, because you're going to have to cover that loan, because the bank doesn't care, your name's on it.

• 15:21Speaker 00

  Right.

• 15:22Dr. John Delony?

  Or you're going to spend two years fighting him in court for it, and he is not going to have it, and then the whole time, the bank keeps wanting that house note, and the bank keeps wanting that car note.

• 15:33Speaker 00

  Right.

• 15:33Dr. John Delony?

  Right? Hopefully, that's not the case.

• 15:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:40Dr. John Delony?

  But this is day one, Elise, this is when you stand up and you draw your sword and say, "Ask for me at my house."

• 15:48Speaker 00

  Right.

• 15:48Dr. John Delony?

  You're not making me and my kids unsafe anymore.

• 15:52Dr. John Delony?

  But I would frame it with, "We're gonna have a real hard conversation, probably one you've never had with me."

• 15:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:00Dr. John Delony?

  "But I'm scared in my own house and I can't rely on you for that safety right now, and so I'm gonna have to take action. I want everything, and we're gonna pull the stuff right this second in front of me. Get on the computer and download them right now."

• 16:12Dr. John Delony?

  And we'll link in the show notes to the, uh, to the site where you can pull all three of your credit reports really quickly, and they'll just email them to you. But we'll go from there.

• 16:22Dr. John Delony?

  Everybody listening, gambling's just, it's just destroying families. It's just something...

• 16:29Dr. John Delony?

  I don't know, man. It's not a thing I've ever struggled with, and so I can, I can go and have my silly little fun, and I don't have an app on my phone. I wouldn't know how to gamble online. I mean, I don't know how to do it. I'm sure I could figure it out, but it's never been a struggle of mine, and I'm super grateful for that. I've got other struggles, but that's not one of them. But I tell you what, it is destroying families. And gentlemen, if you're listening to this and you are over your head gambling, um, especially online, um, with your phone or whatever, today's the day. Call it. Call it. I'm just taking too many calls on this show and on the other show. We get too many emails from all over the world, by especially men blowing up their families because they've gambled

• 17:12Dr. John Delony?

  away so much. Today's the day. Stop. Pull the plug on it. Delete the apps. Go get help and be honest with your partner about how bad it is. Everybody listening with gambling challenges, today's day one. It's gonna be up to us because nobody else is looking out for us. All right, coming up, we talk to a woman who's been married for over a decade and just admitted to an affair while she was engaged. Whoa.

• 17:39Dr. John Delony?

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• 18:22Dr. John Delony?

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• 19:06Dr. John Delony?

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• 19:11Dr. John Delony?

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• 19:19Speaker 02

  Hi, Dr. John.

• 19:21Dr. John Delony?

  How we doing?

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Thank you very much for taking my call.

• 19:23Dr. John Delony?

  Of course.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  Um, I'm doing good.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  Good, I guess, but it's been a tough two weeks.

• 19:31Dr. John Delony?

  Let me know what's going on.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Okay, so um, so I guess a little bit of background about myself. Um, I've been married for 12 years. I've been with my husband since we were 15, so high school sweethearts. Um, two kids, five and three. And recently, I came clean to him about an affair I had during our engagement. And it's been, it's been a tough road.

• 20:05Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Now, a little bit of backstory on, on that affair. Um, so my husband and I got engaged, um, when we were 20, 22, 21, I believe, going into 22. Um, he joined the military and we decided that, you know, sharing life together was something that we wanted to do. Um, he told me that he didn't see himself leaving and being by himself. He wanted to be with me and just, you know, start everything with me. So, um, it was something that we discussed, something that we talked, pretty much planned, and, you know, had our parents' blessings, um, in getting married.

• 20:49Speaker 02

  Um, he left for training, um, basic and then A I T, so pretty much for about a year. Um, when he came back home, he, uh, I found out that he had had an affair in training. And mind you, like, this is all through, like, our engagement process. Um, he swears that it only happened once. Um, although he didn't come clean at the time. Um, but it, you know, the signs were there. I just knew that it happened. It was, it was clear to me that-

• 21:30Dr. John Delony?

  Take, take me to yours, take me to yours. I feel like you're kind of circling a little bit because you don't want to talk about it. Take me to yours.

• 21:37Dr. John Delony?

  So was yours a revenge affair?

• 21:41Speaker 02

  I I was heartbroken.

• 21:44Dr. John Delony?

  Mm hmm.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  Um, I was, I guess, I'm not, I, I don't know if it was a revenge affair.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  I remember, I honestly don't even remember clearly, you know, everything that happened. It was more like I was hanging out with a friend. We went to a bar, had a chat, conversation, just drinks and, um, one thing led to the other and it just happened. Um.

• 22:19Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, that's not how that works, but we'll go with it just for now. So how long have you all been married? You've been married 12 years?

• 22:25Speaker 02

  12 years.

• 22:26Dr. John Delony?

  And how old are you now?

• 22:28Speaker 02

  Uh, 35.

• 22:29Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  We do have, um, a thing we, when we first started, um, he's the one that told me, you know, we're in our safe space. This is our safe space. We can talk about anything. You can tell me anything and I feel comfortable telling you anything. And that has always been, you know, our thing since, um, we usually kind of hint that out to each other, like, hey, we're in our safe space, like, let's be open about anything and everything.

• 23:00Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, but, but you have to understand that safe space for him is built on a foundation that he found out a couple of weeks ago didn't exist.

• 23:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 23:09Dr. John Delony?

  You know, you know what I'm saying? Does that make sense? Like even you choosing to be in a safe space with him 12 years, a decade plus later, after you found out that he cheated on you once while he was away training.

• 23:22Dr. John Delony?

  Even then you'd chosen, I'm still going to marry you. I'm still going to enter into this, this marriage with you. We've made two kids. We've built a life together. And so like the safety that you feel, you, you knew everything, right? And it was anchored in. His, he was anchored into something that he found out was sand. So how can I help you? That sounds like a big one.

• 23:44Speaker 02

  Um, so exactly that, I, I feel like, I mean,

• 23:51Speaker 02

  I just wanna know how I can

• 23:55Dr. John Delony?

  What's he saying? What's he telling you?

• 23:57Speaker 02

  Um, things along the lines that you just said, things like, um, had he known before, he wouldn't have married me.

• 24:10Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  Um, things like,

• 24:15Speaker 02

  things would have been different. Um, he feels stuck now. I robbed him from a decision to make. Um, he has two kids and a mortgage now. He doesn't trust me. He doesn't believe me. He sees me differently. Um,

• 24:34Speaker 02

  I'm a hypocrite liar. Nothing matters. Um, and I guess it's like also disappointment that he mentions and I guess just those things that he keeps or that he's said in this past week

• 24:52Speaker 02

  keep circling in my head. Um, I know he's trying. He still tells me he loves me and then like we've been intimate and he tells me nothing. Like my feelings towards you haven't changed, but then he has days where he's like, everything has changed.

• 25:09Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  So it's like a big roller coaster. Um, but I

• 25:15Dr. John Delony?

  So listen, you, you're,

• 25:20Dr. John Delony?

  you're gonna have to let him grieve a bit and he's gonna say things that probably in retrospect, he doesn't mean. And I'm not saying it's okay. He probably would have still married you.

• 25:31Dr. John Delony?

  I think if I'm him, I would be remembering back to how scary it was when I had to sit down, whether I got caught or whether I told you, whatever, sit down and have the conversation with you. That he'd been unfaithful during your engagement? And then he'd screw like the shame he felt and how embarrassed he felt. And then for you to just go do the same thing and then keep it quiet for a decade. I think he's finding out that you're not who he thought he was, not because you slept with somebody 12 years ago or 13 or 14 years ago. But because he did something that's very scary for men to do, which is to go all in and create a safe space with somebody else emotionally.

• 26:10Dr. John Delony?

  And not just someone to have sex with, but somebody like, y'all, y'all talk about everything.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:18Dr. John Delony?

  And the worst thing that could have happened to a guy who has the courage to do that is he found out he was anchored into something that the person he was being totally 100%, totally 100% open with, wasn't being open with him. My guess is the betrayal is after 10 years or 12 years, he's like, who are you? Not because of what happened 12 years ago, but, but because of, oh my gosh, dude, we'd created the safest, most comfortable, most intimate relationship possible because we talked about everything. And so I don't like asking for a way to navigate this. Sounds like, how do I work around it? How do I hack this? How do we just get from here to there?

• 27:02Dr. John Delony?

  And I guess what I would tell you is, um, there's just going to be some sitting in it. This is hard. And I think the question is, how do I begin to regain your trust? I want to be married to you. I want to love you. And I kept a secret from you for a long, long time. And then he's going to get to set the table for what does trust rebuilding look like? And then you're going to get to decide, do I want to be a part of that or not? Cause I think in his head, he loves you. He wants to be with you. Y'all made a family together. You're his person forever. And also, my gosh, who are you? I thought I was safe.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, I mean, you're right. I absolutely understand that. And...

• 28:01Dr. John Delony?

  He doesn't get to be abusive and swear at you and yell and become a child. He didn't get to do that, but it doesn't surprise me. He's like, "Man, I would never would have done this." And that's somebody who's just in a lot of pain right now because the ground they were walking on just dissolved underneath them. It's like walking over a sinkhole and the whole thing caves in.

• 28:24Dr. John Delony?

  But I think there's just gonna be some, um...

• 28:29Dr. John Delony?

  I don't know. I don't have any data to back up what I'm about to say, but I've just sat with folks who found out somebody had an affair, like a one-night-stand. Somebody had somebody they met at work and things got out of control and, you know, here we are.

• 28:46Dr. John Delony?

  But I've talked to people who had an affair a long time ago and they never said anything, they never said anything, they never said anything, and everything they built, um, it has an unmooring effect. Neither of them are great and they always cause a lot of angst and turmoil, but,

• 29:02Dr. John Delony?

  yeah, I think this is gonna be tough. I, I, I mean,

• 29:07Dr. John Delony?

  I think asking, "How can I earn your trust back?" "What's a path back look like?" Or let me say it this way, "The marriage that you had is now over. Do you all want to go through and build a new one?"

• 29:19Dr. John Delony?

  I guess I just want to, I, I, I want to validate on this side of it. Hearing this, if my wife was to come to me and say, "Hey, by the way, this happened", I wouldn't leave, but it would be devastating to me, mainly because

• 29:33Dr. John Delony?

  somehow in my mind, in my spirit, in my soul, I would think I created a world so unsafe for her that she couldn't come tell me something that happened this long ago.

• 29:45Dr. John Delony?

  And that would be really heavy for me to carry.

• 29:49Dr. John Delony?

  And then I would think, you know, actually, I did create a safe enough place and then I would get mad.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  I think that's something that he's been going through.

• 29:58Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, anger is a core part of the grief, of, you know, the stages of grief.

• 30:04Speaker 02

  He did mention, um, just this past week in that,

• 30:10Speaker 02

  um, just this past week, he had thought and regretted how if he wouldn't have had his affair, I wouldn't have done anything. And then he switches to like, no, but you made a conscious decision.

• 30:24Dr. John Delony?

  That's right. That's just, hey, that's a,

• 30:26Speaker 02

  And I get it.

• 30:27Dr. John Delony?

  That's a guy trying to get his footing after the, after the floor just fell off from under him.

• 30:33Dr. John Delony?

  So I think the greatest gift you can give him is space.

• 30:36Speaker 02

  He has mentioned divorce is not an option. Um, but he did mention a couple of times that,

• 30:45Speaker 02

  about separation, that he's thought about separation. Um, I'm not sure.

• 30:51Dr. John Delony?

  So, so, so listen, Marlon, just let him process, okay? Sounds like he's a good man. Sounds like he's trying to make sense. He just got dumped into the ocean. He's trying to figure out how to get his bearings straight so he could swim back to shore.

• 31:06Dr. John Delony?

  And I, I think the greatest gift you can give him right now is to say, hey, the foundation of this marriage, like, he can't deny that you've shown up for him minute by minute, day by day, year by year. He knows that. And he's telling you, I'm not going to divorce you. I'm not leaving you over this, but I just, I, every thought I have is just spinning. And it sounds like y'all have created such a safe environment where he can say what's on his heart and mind. Most men wouldn't do that. So, big kudos to him. But it sounds like he's saying, I'm not going to leave you, but my gosh, I'm thinking about it and I feel trapped, but I don't, I wouldn't trade my life for anything. It's like that, it's a, it's him trying to just get his equilibrium back. And a great gift you can give him is to say, hey,

• 31:51Dr. John Delony?

  The foundation that our house is built on, I recognize that I didn't tell you the truth about it. So you feeling like one minute this way, one minute that way, totally get it. And I recognize that we gotta rebuild our marriage from the floor up. I've always been who I am, except for this one big giant secret, and I kept it from you, and I was wrong, and I'm sorry. And all of your feelings are valid and good, and I'm gonna ask you every single morning how I can love you today. And I think you, Marlon, just expecting it's gonna be a roller coaster, there's gonna be some real highs and some real lows, and he's just, it's just a guy trying to get his footing back.

• 32:33Dr. John Delony?

  And then y'all will have a hard, what I would call a reckoning conversation about, okay, what does marriage look like moving forward? And what's that gonna look like? And how are we gonna navigate that? But I guess just wanna reiterate, the hardest thing in the world, um, for men, I think, is to be emotionally and spiritually vulnerable with somebody. Cause in our day-to-day lives, it'll get us killed, it'll get us kicked out of the table, it'll get us not invited to the meetings, which in our world is akin to death. It's just, it's, it just gets you ostracized. And he created a world with you for that, and he found out it wasn't what he thought it was.

• 33:18Dr. John Delony?

  And so, it's not, I personally don't think it's about what happened so long ago, it's, it's this constant compounding of, man, I've got this, he's walking around thinking he's got the safest emotional relationship on the planet, and he finds out, except she's got the capacity to hold a huge secret from me for over a decade plus. It's just unmooring, it's just gonna take some time. Go to him and acknowledge, "I blew it up. I did. And I led you to believe that I was always 100% with you, and on this one issue, I wasn't. And God help you make sure that there's not another lie, another story, another dishonesty thing out there. It's time to put everything, everything on the table. If you've got a secret credit card, if you sent pictures to another guy you met one night at a bar, like whatever, make

• 34:03Dr. John Delony?

  sure it's all on the table. And just tell him, "Every day, I'm gonna ask you this." And he can tell you nothing. He can tell you, "I just need some space. I need you to just come be with me tonight," like whatever that is. I'm all in. And then ask him, "How do we rebuild trust from here?" And he's gonna get to set it down and go from there. This is a tough one, Marlon, and I don't know an easy way. The only way through this one is right through the middle of it. And by the way, you're gonna need a couple of girlfriends that you can talk to and text and be honest with. You can't hold all of this by yourself. Getting a gang is gonna be important here. Thank you for the call. Call anytime. And if he wants to call me, I'd love to talk to him, too. I'd love to talk to him, too. When we come back, we talk to a man who wonders how to talk to his buddy about a drinking problem.

• 34:51Dr. John Delony?

  This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Therapy is not just for people dealing with major traumas. It can be for major traumas, but it's also a valuable tool for anyone looking to just improve their mental and emotional well-being or their relationships. I see a therapist for both the big challenges from my past, as well as for helping me navigate the day-to-day challenges that just pop up. Many of you should consider seeing a therapist, too. And if you're thinking about trying therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online, so it's affordable and convenient for your schedule. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. They also have over 10 years

• 35:33Dr. John Delony?

  of experience matching people with just the right therapist for them. To get started, you just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time, easily, and for no extra cost. Talk it out with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/daloni to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash daloni.

• 35:58Dr. John Delony?

  Wichita, Kansas. Let's talk to Bach. Sebastian, what's up?

• 36:05Speaker 03

  Hey, Dr. John.

• 36:06Dr. John Delony?

  How we doing, brother?

• 36:07Speaker 03

  Good. How are you?

• 36:08Dr. John Delony?

  I'm doing great. What's going on, man?

• 36:11Speaker 03

  Well, I'm just wondering how to talk to my friend about his, uh, drinking problem.

• 36:16Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about it.

• 36:18Speaker 03

  Well, he's, he's 20 and he's already gotten a DUI about a year or two ago. So he's been through that whole process already. And I'm just worried about him and want to know how to get through to him to stop it.

• 36:36Dr. John Delony?

  Is he still drinking unsafe?

• 36:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:40Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. So you know your friend. How does he take, um, these type of conversations?

• 36:48Speaker 03

  Uh, we've never really had a, I guess, a vulnerable conversation with each other.

• 36:54Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 36:56Speaker 03

  So I'm not too sure.

• 36:59Dr. John Delony?

  So I think this is one of those conversations that, um,

• 37:06Dr. John Delony?

  there's not a soft way to do it, other than to say, hey, I need to have a hard conversation with you and I love you.

• 37:12Dr. John Delony?

  And I would say both of those words upfront. And you may have never said either of those, I mean, doesn't sound like you've ever said either of those words upfront and it'll catch his attention. And say, I'm worried about your drinking. You drink too much, man.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:26Dr. John Delony?

  And tell him, I'll go to a meeting with you. Um, I can't drink with you anymore.

• 37:32Dr. John Delony?

  I can't watch you get in the car and drive anymore after you've been drinking.

• 37:37Dr. John Delony?

  And you're my brother and I don't want to walk away from you. I can't be a part of this.

• 37:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I don't drink with him at all.

• 37:49Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. And maybe you say that, maybe you say, I've, I want you to see, I don't even drink with you because I'm worried about you.

• 37:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:59Dr. John Delony?

  How old is he? You said he's 20?

• 38:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's just turned 20.

• 38:03Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, he's not even legal to be drinking.

• 38:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know.

• 38:06Dr. John Delony?

  Um, but yeah, and, and here's the deal, man. I've had this conversation, especially when I was your age about certain things. And a couple of them went really well. And one of them in particular went horrible.

• 38:20Dr. John Delony?

  Guy said, "Who do you think you are?" Filled in a blank with a whole bunch of expletives and we went back and forth and we didn't talk for a while.

• 38:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, I guess that's what I'm a little worried about.

• 38:32Dr. John Delony?

  I'll tell you, on the, on the worry-o-meter, my worry is always, "I want you to be alive and hate me more than I want you to be dead," and no, I kept the peace.

• 38:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:50Dr. John Delony?

  And if you have a couple of other buddies that are in your, in your circle and your gang, then it would be great to have them come along too.

• 38:56Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 38:59Dr. John Delony?

  And expect him to lash out, "And I know this about you, and you do this, and you're not perfect," be like, "Yeah, 100% I know I'm not perfect. I'm just worried about you dying."

• 39:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's my main concern, either him or someone else.

• 39:17Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, "I want you to do some homework and find out when a meeting is, and maybe there's one this evening in your local community, um, an AA meeting, and tell him, 'I'll go with you.'"

• 39:28Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 39:29Dr. John Delony?

  All right, tell him, "I'll go with you tonight. I'll go with you the first three. I'll just, I'll, I'll drive you."

• 39:35Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 39:36Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, "But I want you to get involved in that level and then just hold some space." He may say, "Screw you, I'm out of here. Don't ever talk to me again," and he cuts you off and blocks you and everything. If that's the case, just know you went to bed saying two of the most important things in the world, "I love you and I'll go with you." And hopefully those words will rattle around in his soul, and when he has his day of reckoning, whether it's a second DUI, or he gets in a car wreck, or he hurts somebody, or he just finds himself alone in a bar, and he just says, "I don't want this life," he'll remember his great buddy, Box, saying, "I love you and I'll go with you." And sometimes that's the best we can do, man. I know that feels powerless, but sometimes

• 40:21Dr. John Delony?

  that's the best we can do. Thank you so much for the call, my brother. We'll be right back.

• 40:29Dr. John Delony?

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• 41:13Dr. John Delony?

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• 41:48Dr. John Delony?

  All right, Kelly, Am I the Problem? Oh, Kelly, 1.0 is back. It's good to see you.

• 41:52Speaker 04

  Thanks. Glad to be back. My son graduated high school this past weekend, and so we had a very full weekend of family and parties and all sorts of stuff going on.

• 42:04Dr. John Delony?

  Did you cry?

• 42:05Speaker 04

  Just not as much as I thought. I cried a little bit at graduation, and then on Sunday, we went to not our normal church, but the church where he goes to youth group with some friends, and it was really, really, really special what they did. And I did, I did cry a little bit there.

• 42:22Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome.

• 42:22Speaker 04

  Because I had to, we had to write him a letter that they read, and yeah.

• 42:26Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, this is a total, total new thing, and you can edit this all out. I kind of want, before we do the Am I the Problem, I want to like, use this end segment a little bit to retro what we, some of these calls. I gotta, I gotta ask, like, everybody in the booth, you've been married 10 years, 12 years, and you find out your partner had an affair that long ago.

• 42:51Dr. John Delony?

  And in my head, I just, I mean, unless it was with my best friend or something, that's a whole other deal. But like, assuming my wife met a stranger in a bar, had the affair, the thing that is the most devastating to me right now is that all this time, it'd be the dishonesty and the lies. That's the part that would drive me crazy.

• 43:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, I agree. And again, not having been there, it's easy to say how I would react.

• 43:16Dr. John Delony?

  Of course, yeah.

• 43:17Speaker 04

  But I think that especially, you know, I mean, we've been married 20 something years now. And I think it'd be easy to be like, it was a long time ago.

• 43:26Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 43:26Speaker 04

  That part I'm not as concerned with. But yeah, I think the question would be the, the fact that you've been sitting on this life for, in her case, 12 years.

• 43:35Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so tell me what is worse? What's worse? And this is the one I keep spinning on right now. So, her husband had an affair too, while he was off at basic, and comes in, gets caught, has this big emotional moment, you're the woman I want to marry, I want to be with you forever. I know this sounds awful, but I think her affair is worse. Because she felt the explosion in that house, and the devastation and the shame and all that. And she's like, no, I'm gonna marry you anyway. And then she went to a bar and met somebody and slept with that dude. I don't know why that feels worse to me. It just does. All right, am I the problem?

• 44:13Speaker 04

  All right. So this is from Catherine in Cincinnati. And she writes, "My husband and I have been married for 13 years, and he regularly, regularly checks out other women in front of me. Today, while driving our daughter to school, he noticed a woman going by and turned around to watch her till she was out of view. To add to it, my husband is always telling me that bleached blonde hair, fake tans, makeup, and injected faces are not attractive at all to him. Yet, this is usually the type of woman he is looking at. Whenever I see it happen, I let him know that it makes me uncomfortable and that I don't like it. He apologizes and tells me he isn't even aware that he is doing it."

• 44:50Dr. John Delony?

  Bull crap on a stick, on a log with a pony, in a dragon. He's such a-

• 44:55Speaker 04

  He also said that guys do it all the time. So John, am I truly the problem for letting this bother me?

• 45:02Dr. John Delony?

  No.

• 45:02Speaker 04

  Can he truly be unaware of his actions?

• 45:04Dr. John Delony?

  No.

• 45:05Speaker 04

  I have a hard time believing him because it's been going on for so long and I've brought it to his attention over and over and over and over again.

• 45:12Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, dude, like, A, put sunglasses on, don't be an idiot. And you can cut your eyes and you could see objectively beautiful. Like that is awesome and fine and great. And I don't even mind this, like, just walking by and be like, man. Don't say man out loud, that's an inside voice. The second thing is, she knows that person's beautiful too. It's not like anybody's hiding anything from anybody. But the gawking? Screw that. With a drill. That's so, that's so, ah, pissy. Okay, the hope most of, shut up. You know why? Because you don't do it with your grandmother. And you don't do it with your mom. You do it because you're an ass and you do it in front of your wife. That just sucks. I, I hate that dude.

• 45:57Dr. John Delony?

  That, huh, huh. And by the way, I don't like when people do it to my wife. And I don't like it when people, okay, here's where I'll say it. Ah, yeah. Okay, here's the thing. Okay, there is a funny way, and Nate and Ben backed me up on this. There's a way you walk into a room and the woman you're with is beautiful. All right? And there's a way a guy can very subtly acknowledge, like, well done. Right? There's just a nod, like, and I don't know, it's very imperceptible, but it's like, I'm a boy. I don't even know you, stranger, but like, well done. And then there's the oblivious to you, I'm just gonna check her out. And now I have to kill you. Right?

• 46:42Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, it's like, and it's very subtle, but there's a, there's a nod to, you're with somebody that's beautiful, well done, man. Like, and everybody wants someone to be like, hey, the person you're with is beautiful. Right? It's that next one dude, and you can freaking control that. And here's the worst part, she's told him over and over, this makes me uncomfortable. "I can't help it, huh huh, shut up." On a big, "Alright, I'm gonna get myself in trouble." "I'm coming up with everything I can say to not swear." It's just that kind of, that kind of Monday morning. It's not even Monday, that's the problem, it's not even Monday. Ben, rescue me from myself, start the tunes. What do you think Kelly, am I crazy?

• 47:22Speaker 04

  Oh no, you're 100% right. And it would be just as bad if she was doing it the other way. Just as bad.

• 47:29Dr. John Delony?

  Dude, recognize beauty. See it. Internalize it. Everyone's life should be better when somebody beautiful walks by or somebody handsome walks by. That's life. It's when you choose to go "huh huh huh" That God help you dude. What is happening to us? Love y'all, bye.