Wes Moore on becoming first black Governor of Maryland, lessons from military to true meaning of service, shares story behind one name two fates, faith over fear, key to long marriage, Baltimore Ravens and meaning behind Army Navy football game

"Some of the best decisions I’ve made in my life have been rooted in faith where I couldn’t give a guarantee but I had faith and some of the worst decisions I’ve made in my life were rooted in fear.” Governor Wes Moore In this inspiring and wide-ranging conversation, Maryland Governor Wes Moore joins The Pivot Podcast to discuss leadership, purpose, and the personal journey that shaped his historic path to the governor’s office. Moore opens up to Ryan, Channing and Fred about his upbringing, his time in the military, and the pivotal moments that pushed him toward public service. He reflects on the challenges of leading a state during times of rapid change, the responsibilities of being Maryland’s first Black governor, and his commitment to expanding opportunity for all communities. Going in-depth, Moore shares the story behind writing his best-selling novel shaped how he views the world, based on the experience of 2 men with the same name who lived two different fates: one ended up doing life in prison while the other was a road scholar who became Governor. A journey rooted in faith not fear, Moore shares the key choices he made over his lifetime to give him the courage and strength to emphasize service over self. Throughout the episode, Moore’s trademark energy and clarity shine as he talks about balancing ambition with humility, the importance of mentorship, and what it means to create lasting impact. He shares his inspiring love story with wife Dawn, raising a family in the public eye while emphasizing the values that built their marriage, the support they’ve given each other through demanding careers, and the joy and purpose he finds in being a husband and father. And of course we talk football! From Maryland sports to the Baltimore Ravens to the AFC North to the true spirit and rivalry of the Army Navy game. Whether you’re interested in politics, personal growth, or stories of resilience, this conversation offers a thoughtful look at one of the country’s most dynamic political leaders. Pivot Family, tap in, like, hit subscribe and comment, we love hearing from you! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 0:11Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Semaglutide injection, 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-8334-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Maryland's governor, Wes Moore, isn't your typical politician. I mean, he has the credentials, right? Military school, Rhodes Scholar, Bronze Star, from the Army. All of those things line up extremely well. But some of his background is untraditional. I mean, he's shown to be a great leader, the sort of man his father would have been proud of, and the man his mother raised him to be. As a matter of fact, he's still scared of her. She's the reason he didn't become the other Wes Moore. You know, the man that Wes wrote a book about, a New York Times bestseller about a man with the same name, from the same place, that chose the opposite route. As a matter of fact, that became the sort of person he wanted to serve and save.

• 1:13Speaker 01

  He's poured into the African-American population in Maryland because it was needed, and still he's proven that he's the right leader for all of his constituents. He didn't hint at running for that big office in DC, even though I pushed him to say it. Instead, he's focused on his second term as governor. But the former Johns Hopkins University wideout isn't backing down from challenges. We talked policies, pardons, dating, sports, bad decisions and good. I mean, me and the charismatic governor even made a friendly push-up wager on the AFC North Chase. To be truthful, I'm glad the pivot caught up with Wes Moore now, because in a few years, we might be able to say, "We've sat with two commanders in chief."

• 1:58Speaker 01

  I'm sure you'll feel the exact same way we did after this one, because honestly, he's one of them was. So, please enjoy this sit-down right now, as the governor of Maryland, Wes Moore, chops it up with the pivot.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  Look, Channing knew all that. Oh, what up, man? How you doing, man?

• 2:21Ryan Clark?

  What's up, man? How you doing, man?

• 2:22Speaker 02

  I can't believe...

• 2:24Ryan Clark?

  Bro, she... What's up, man? Good to see you, man.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:28Ryan Clark?

  Respect, man. Respect. It's good to see y'all.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  Put on some pads real quick.

• 2:31Ryan Clark?

  Man, this is great. We got y'all in the building. I can't believe... We were told he's gonna... He's not gonna wear a tie. He's gonna wear a sports coat and a collared shirt. So here we... Channing got in trouble this morning.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  I got... Yeah, damn.

• 2:45Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, Channing. Channing got in trouble this morning. Channing, you know he's the governor. You cannot wear a hat.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  He was too cool when I was watching the interview. I'm like, man, cool. I'm like, oh, honey.

• 3:19Ryan Clark?

  Man, welcome to the Pivot. Wes Moore, Governor of Maryland. This is Fred Taylor. I'm Ryan Clark. This is Channing Crowder. Pivot fam, thank you guys for pivoting with us. You do know that John Hopkins University has a typo in your bio?

• 3:31Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 3:32Ryan Clark?

  Yes, it says you averaged 25 yards, uh, catch.

• 3:35Speaker 04

  Well, that's not a typo, sir.

• 3:36Ryan Clark?

  In your last year. Well, do you have, what, two catches?

• 3:37Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 3:38Ryan Clark?

  Because, I mean...

• 3:40Speaker 04

  That information is not important. It's the average yards for a catch.

• 3:44Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, at some point, if you averaging 25 yards a catch, they gonna roll a safety to you. We gonna double. Like, you not finna just... Yeah, you not finna bang... Channing, you not gonna bang me over the head for two first downs and a half every time you catch it? Like, golly.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  That's what I was trying to tell you. She threw me the ball more. She threw me the ball more, man.

• 4:05Ryan Clark?

  But nah, man, that's amazing. 63rd governor of this state. But you were the first of many other things. First black governor here. You also the first black Rhodes Scholar at John Hopkins. Sometimes, being the first can be extremely difficult. After holding this position for the amount of time you have, what's been the hardest part of being the first black governor of Maryland?

• 4:30Speaker 04

  The thing that always sits with me is that I'm the first African-American governor of this state. I'm only the third African-American ever-elected governor in the history of the United States.

• 4:44Speaker 04

  But the thing that always sits with me is that it's not like I'm the third African American ever qualified to be a governor. In many ways, I actually, while I'm thankful that we've been able to take this journey and I can stand here as the first, it also is a larger indictment on our society. It's an indictment frankly on my state, the fact that we went hundreds of years without an African American chief executive despite our population. That this country has gone hundreds of years with three African Americans ever elected governor? And so, the thing that I oftentimes think when people say, you know, "Congratulations

• 5:23Speaker 04

  on that," it's not a congratulations that I internalize in the same way. I'm thankful that the state made this decision. I'm grateful for the shoulders that I'm standing on because I'm very clear that they are, I'm standing on the shoulders, when I think about just the state of Maryland, I'm standing on the shoulders of people like Frederick Douglass and people like Thurgood Marshall and people like Harriet Tubman. Like I'm, I can see because their shoulders are so broad that I'm able to stand on them. But I also know that being the first, that wasn't the assignment, that we came here with work to do. And that's, that's how I try to stay centered on it. Love it.

• 6:06Channing Crowder?

  Wes, is there a, a learning curve? Because it sounds good. I'm gonna be the governor! Then you're gonna ask the governor.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  But day one, you're like, alright! So where is everything?

• 6:20Channing Crowder?

  So the thought of it, and then now you're here.

• 6:23Speaker 04

  You know what is funny, Jan, because it's like, I actually think that everything that I have done in my life was preparing me for this moment even though I didn't realize it. So I'd never run for office before in my life. Like I am probably the most improbable governor in America, right? I mean, I was in the military, I led soldiers in combat, I was in finance, I worked in the business world, I led one of the largest poverty fighting organizations in this country. And one day I was just like, you know what? I can either keep on pushing policymakers to do different, or I can actually go just do different. And just go run this thing how we think it needs to be run.

• 7:02Speaker 04

  And so I remember when the, you know, when the tragic Key Bridge collapse happened. People saw how that first morning, how we laid out the five objectives on the things we needed to get done. We needed to make sure that we were bringing closure and comfort to the families who are people lost. We needed to make sure that we were going to reopen the channel as quickly as possible. That we needed to make sure that we're going to take care of all those who are directly impacted. That we are going to rebuild the Francis Scott Key Bridge. And the most important thing is we were going to make sure we're working together on this. And how we ran this thing, I think Maryland really put on a case study on how to respond in a moment of crisis. And people ask, they're like, what prepared you for that? You know, you were never a mayor.

• 7:44Speaker 04

  You were never a congressperson or a senator or whatever. I think the honest answer is I was a soldier. Like, we know how to make things happen. We know how to build things. We know how to build teams. And so in many ways, the fact that I did not come from this world, I've actually realized now, has given me the best preparation to actually make change within the world. Because I'm not beholden to political parties or, or interests or whatever. Because I'm like, none of y'all made me in the first place. So I have no interest in being beholden to anybody now that I'm actually in the seat.

• 8:21Fred Taylor?

  So not coming from this world, not having any political experience whatsoever. I did some homework. We're close to the same age. I'm two years older. And I watched The Wire. So I know you saw The Wire too, right?

• 8:34Speaker 04

  One of the best shows in television.

• 8:36Fred Taylor?

  A hundred percent. With that, it sort of laid out what Baltimore kinda was like. What provoked you to even say, you know, I want to get into politics. I want to go and take one of the hardest positions in the entire world next to the presidency. Why would you?

• 8:52Ryan Clark?

  Get into politics, it's tricky.

• 8:54Speaker 04

  It is tricky. And by the way, if y'all haven't seen The Wire, y'all saw The Wire, right?

• 8:58Ryan Clark?

  I've seen The Wire twice, front to back.

• 9:00Speaker 04

  There you go. It is, and I love it because The Wire is, I think, one of the best understandings of, if you look at the entire season and series of The Wire, there were no natural heroes and no natural villains.

• 9:13Ryan Clark?

  Correct.

• 9:14Speaker 04

  That everybody was in the gray. Whether you're talking about, you know, Carcetti, or Marlowe, or like, or Omar, everybody was in the gray. And I think that's just human life. You know, I remember when I was running this organization called Robin Hood, which is one of the largest poverty fighting organizations in the country. And we were trying to get a former governor now to work on the child tax credit. Because I think about, the thing that makes my heart beat faster and the thing I will never be okay with is how we allow so many children to grow up in poverty. I'm like, kids, who before they even have a say in their own life, like, we're determining their future. And so, I was working with this former governor to try to give him and make adjustments on the child tax credit, and, and with things he could do, he could put in a state of the state.

• 9:58Speaker 04

  And I got an advanced copy of his State of the State. And there was nothing in there about child poverty. And nothing in there about the child tax credit. So I'm pissed off. So I call up the head of public policy, a guy named Jason Cohn for the organization, and I'm just like ranting. And, once I finally breathed after like three minutes, he said to me, he said, "Listen, we've worked for six months to try to get him to include a line in the speech. But what if you could write the whole speech?"

• 10:27Speaker 04

  And I was like, "That's the point." I can try to convince them, so I'm blue in the face on things. But what if I could just write the whole speech? And so, I decided to run for governor because I was like, "No, we're gonna do something about child poverty." And in my first State of the State that I gave to the state of Maryland, I probably spent 10 minutes, you know, it wasn't a line. We probably spent 10 minutes, a good portion of the speech, just talking about how now is the time to have a complete, all-out bipartisan assault on child poverty. And that's exactly what we've done since I've been the governor. So, I mean, the thing that I, that I knew is that like, I love this place too much to watch us keep on slow-walking.

• 11:09Speaker 04

  And I love our people too much to watch us continue pacifying.

• 11:15Speaker 04

  Without actually getting to real challenges that people are facing in their lives.

• 11:18Ryan Clark?

  Another thing you focused on in one of your state of the states was young men and boys.

• 11:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:26Ryan Clark?

  And making sure that their foundation was strong, so leadership could be strong. We're in a time where statements like that are statements that are attacked because it's like, "Well, what about the women?" And is it misogynistic? Is it chauvinistic? Why was it important for you, though, to address that publicly in your speech, but also by your actions and the policies you put in place to help those young men and boys?

• 11:53Speaker 04

  It's wild, Clark, because it was like, when I first made this, the amount of pushback we got was just, was in many ways wild to me. And, and part of it is I get it when people are like, "What about women and girls?" But my point is this, this is not a binary conversation. And actually, the reality is, if you really want to help women and girls, make sure your men and boys are not falling behind. And I'm, and I think about it both in terms of, you know, both in terms of what the statistics are showing us. Because you cannot look at the statistics of what's happening with our young men and boys and think that everything is okay. When you're watching the fact that we've watched suicide rates triple.

• 12:29Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 12:30Speaker 04

  The fact that we're watching a college completion rate that is now the same as it was in the 1960s. Right? Workforce participation. I mean, across the board, on every stat, you're seeing how men and boys are continuing to have challenges and struggles. But also, I think about it from just my own personal perspective, where, you know, I was raised by an immigrant, single mom. And my mom was amazing. My mom is, is my angel. But I also know my mother could never teach me how to be a man. Because she didn't know. The same way I have a 14-year-old daughter, who I love with all my heart.

• 13:07Speaker 04

  I can't teach her how to be a woman. Because I don't know. She's gonna need her mom and her cousins and her aunts and everybody else and her grandmothers to help her do that because I don't know. And so my point is this, we've gotta make sure that we are getting and keeping our men inside of this process of helping to lift up our young men and boys. That it's the reason that, you know, in our state, we put, you know, not just in words, but in deeds, there, I don't know if this is a state that's been more aggressive when it comes to policies supporting our young men and boys. We made Maryland the first state in the country that now has a service year option for all of our high school graduates, which is primarily, which with the majority of them are now being

• 13:48Speaker 04

  taken, slots being taken by young men who are now having a year of paid service to the state of Maryland. We focus on getting more men inside the classroom and also more men inside of hospitals as nurses and PAs because we know that we don't want a situation where young people are seeing their first male teacher when they're in college. That we want to get more mentors inside the lives of our young men, that we have a program, uh, that's an award-winning program called Thrive, which focuses on the young people in our state who have the highest probability of either being the victim or the perpetrator of gun violence. And it's open to men and to, to boys and girls, but it just so happens that about 98% of them are young men.

• 14:28Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 14:29Speaker 04

  So we've gotta be deliberate about it and frankly, just uninte- and be intentional about it and unapologetic, that we are not saying we're, we're putting down or, or taking a focus off our young women and girls, but what I'm saying is this, if you want to have a society that thrives, make sure your young men and boys are actually part of the conversation too.

• 14:46Ryan Clark?

  How much of that is to keep young men and boys from becoming the other Wes Moore?

• 14:53Speaker 04

  It is very personal because in, in many ways, part of my first... Entree into this, into the world of, of, of public service in that way was a book. That I wrote where, where literally it started off in the, in the premise is of when I was announced as a, as a Rhodes Scholar, the Baltimore Sun, which is my hometown paper, did this article about a local kid who just received this, this scholarship and I was now going off to England and despite a lot of the challenges, I mean, I had handcuffs to my wrists at 11 years old, you know, my mother didn't get her first job that gave her benefits until I was 14, but how despite all of this, I'm now going off to England on the scholarship. And around the same time, they were doing a whole series of articles about a jewelry

• 15:33Speaker 04

  store robbery that went wrong and where four guys walked into a jewelry store and in a botched jewelry store robbery, ended up murdering an off-duty police officer. And this off-duty police officer was a 13-year veteran of the Baltimore Police Force, he was a three-time recipient of Police Officer of the Year, he was a father of five, and he just had triplets. And the reason that he was working that day was because he needed a second job to make extra money for his family and he was killed. And when they finally caught all four people, one of the people who they caught was captured and tried and convicted was a guy whose name was also Westmore. I reached out to him, about a month later, I got a note back from Jessup Correctional

• 16:17Speaker 04

  Institution from Westmore and that one letter turned into dozens of letters, those dozens of letters turned into dozens of visits, you know, I've now, you know, I've known West now for decades, but really the premise of it is how thin that line is between our life and someone else's life. And whereas I said, like, the chilling truth is that his story could have been mine. The tragedy is that my story could have been his. And how do we address that, that gap? That for each and every one of us, we all got people in our lives who we came up with, people who might have had the same talents or same ambitions or saint, and they're not where you are right now.

• 17:02Speaker 04

  And so how do we, as a society, really create better pathways for more people can actually have their ambitions meet opportunity? And that, so in many ways, the other Wes Moore, was not just my introduction to society, but it also served as a real motivation for what type of society are we trying to build in the first place?

• 17:26Channing Crowder?

  In politics, where, I like you say pathway, because it's a resume business. The world is a resume. You know, let me see what you've done the last so many months, so many years. When you're talking about trying to change a nine-year-old so he's not a criminal in 10 years, nobody's gonna talk about that.

• 17:44Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 17:45Channing Crowder?

  You know what I'm saying, Wes? What did you just say? I know that the crime rate's down, murder rate's down. There are things that you can look at and say, okay, Wes, change this. I don't wanna say wasting time, but as a politician, to go that far, is it really worth it? Because people ask me, what have you done for me lately?

• 18:01Speaker 04

  Yes, it is worth it. Because it always goes back to the, what was your point of doing this in the first place? You know, and I think about it where, you know, even from an athletic perspective, right? Where, when I think about, who are the people that you always wanted to have on your teams? Right? Who I wanted on my team were the people who were willing to do anything to go win championships? Right? The people who were thinking long-term, the people who were, who in training camp, they were already thinking about February. We're trying to win this year, and we're gonna do everything that is required to win. The people I did not want around me were the stat chasers. Right? The ones who just worry about, you know, how many fantasy points am I gonna get?

• 18:46Speaker 04

  The ones who worry about, you know, how many, how many receptions? How many, how many throws am I gonna get? Could care less about the team.

• 18:54Speaker 04

  Could care less about what was the overall team objective, but were just simply worried about my stat sheet. I don't want them in my locker room. I don't want them on the field with me. I want the people who, when we're out here sweating in August, are thinking about February. And what do I have to do right now to build for the long term? And so I think about politics in many ways is the same way. You're absolutely right. Where the thing about politics is every four years, I'm up for reelection right now. So, you know, I have my report card. Right? So my report card is, when we're going back out in front of the people, we will go talk about the fact that we've had amongst the fastest drops in violent crime anywhere in the United States of America. We will talk about the fact that since I've been governor, we've had amongst the fastest drops in unemployment,

• 19:39Speaker 04

  one of the fastest job rates. We will talk about the fact that we've cut taxes for the middle class and cut taxes for military veterans. We will talk about the fact that we've added over 100,000 new jobs in Maryland since I've been the governor, which is more than my predecessor added in eight years. Right? So we'll talk about that. But you know the things we're also gonna be doing and working on and continue to work on? Is the things that frankly, when I'm gone, people will see the fruit.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:03Speaker 04

  People will see that we focused on child poverty in a way that's never been focused on before. And we've got more kids who are now young men and young women who are now ready to take over. But they're not just better prepared, but they're on the field because the initiatives we put together.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  Wes, when you start talking about February, you gotta kinda look this way. Right? Because these guys don't know what that's like. And, you know, so probably like at the beginning of that- We're giffly over there, governor. At the beginning of that statement, Wes? You lost them. Hey, you lost them at the beginning of the statement. When you was like, hey, in August- You was like, in August, February, they was like, well, damn, I was in Cancun in February. They don't, they don't really have the foresight to see what February football looks like. You know what I mean? I had joy in Cancun.

• 20:58Speaker 02

  You know, Wes, like, some people, Wes, some guys, some guys were counting their checks on the way to the game, you know what I mean? So, they don't really know. That is what Wes was talking to me. Wes, I played for money. So, the whole thing you went through right there, I was like, uh-oh. He don't want, hey, you was like, he don't want me on the team.

• 21:20Speaker 02

  Boy, they about to give me 70 grand a game. Ooh, I'm gonna make me a taco to eat.

• 21:27Fred Taylor?

  You can't take them nowhere, not that one, but...

• 21:31Speaker 07

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 21:42Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Some maglutide injection, 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 22:00Fred Taylor?

  You say all those things, and, I mean, I'm behind you 1,000%. And you do a lot, but in quiet moments, outside of all that, it's like, what are the things that you worry about the most? How do you protect your peace?

• 22:17Speaker 04

  Some things I do worry about, honestly, is, I just, I know this is a very complicated time for a lot of people.

• 22:25Speaker 04

  You know, there's, there's no state that has been hit harder by what has just happened over this past year than Maryland. You know, I've got over 260,000 federal employees in my state. So, when we're doing things like federal government shutdowns, like, that's very personal. You are literally coming after, not just my economy, you're coming after my people and their way of life. You know, that we have seen how, we've watched billions of dollars being cut, you know, in terms of government contracts and grants and all this kind of stuff. We watch, we've now watched the greatest assaults on, specifically, like, black women.

• 23:05Speaker 04

  In terms of employment numbers over these past six months than we've had in generations. So I think the thing that keeps me up is not just what's happening because I think that now is actually a really important moment when, you know, I always say like, you know, the military taught me, I don't learn anything about anybody in times of ease. Because easy times, in easy times, anybody can show me anything. If you ever want to learn something about somebody's medal, watch them when it was hard. Watch them when it was tough and watch how they performed then because that'll tell you everything you need to know. The thing that I, I just want people to do is just not give up a faith and not give up a hope even though I know it is hard. We're watching assaults on generational wealth building that's taking place.

• 23:48Speaker 04

  I just want people to have a context that we are going to be okay. Like if there's anything I've learned about the history of this state and the history of this country is we have seen some very, very dark times in this state, in this country, and it's been God's grace and moral leadership that's been able to get us through. And I just think that that's exactly what we're going to have to rely on now at this point too.

• 24:12Ryan Clark?

  Speaking of leadership, you know, I remember you would sit with people during President Obama's presidency, which was an extremely proud time for me, and they would say, well, he ain't doing enough for black people. And my conversation would always be, you know, he's everyone's president. Even the people that hate him, even the people that don't like his skin color, and especially the people that didn't vote for him. You know, we've talked a lot about the black constituents here, but those aren't the only people that you are meant to serve. In a time that is so polarizing, especially politically, how do you maintain that focus

• 24:57Ryan Clark?

  and not only in your deeds and actions, but also in your words and communication to let everybody know, listen, I'm here for the entire state of Maryland?

• 25:08Speaker 04

  And one thing I think we've, we've really tried to show is that, you know, we're, we're everywhere. You know, there's a, there's a kind of meme, Governor outside, because we are just kind of like, we're all over the state. And I mean, from Western Maryland to Eastern Shore. And let everyone know that, you know, we're fighting for, for all of our people and not just some of them. But- I also am very, very clear with our folks that there is repair that is necessary when it comes to the relationship with the black community. That we, you know, it is not lost to me at all that we are the northernmost southern state in the country. That the Mason-Dixon line runs through the state of Maryland, that we are the home of

• 25:47Speaker 04

  redlining, some of the most creative racist policies that this country has seen, right here in Maryland. That, you know, even our state, our state flag, and I got, I'm so proud, I rock my state flag on my socks, that our state flag is literally-

• 26:04Ryan Clark?

  We weren't told you were gonna dress this way. I'm not right.

• 26:07Speaker 04

  I'm asking, why y'all so dressed up?

• 26:10Speaker 02

  My man.

• 26:12Speaker 04

  Why y'all so dressed up? But I mean, but if you look, but if you look at our state, this is our state flag, and our state flag in many ways is actually a contradiction, because this is a, a Union symbol with a Confederate symbol. Like, that's our state. And so the reason I bring that up is this, is that the work of repair is necessary. And so that's why I'm also unapologetic about the fact that in Maryland, we are doing and we will continue to do the work of repair, and do action steps. So it's why, you know, for example, when we're watching a pullback from federal supports for our HBCUs, then in Maryland, I'm now, you know, we've now, uh, support our HBCUs with over 1.3 billion dollars in the past 2 and 1/2 years.

• 26:56Speaker 04

  That's a historic investment in our HBCUs, a 60% increase from our predecessors, that we've done procurement reform, and making sure that state dollars can actually support black-owned businesses, that, you know, that we've now, uh, we've now invested over 800 million dollars in our black-owned businesses, here in the state of Maryland through procurement reform, unapologetically. That we have now put over 400 million dollars into communities, that what we call our just communities, where we know these are communities that have been historically been dealt a, a bad hand because of historically racist policies, because of redlining, because of mass incarceration, that I signed the largest mass pardon in the history of the United States of America, when I pardoned over 175,000 misdemeanor cannabis convictions, in the stroke of a pen.

• 27:41Speaker 04

  And I did it because I don't know how you can celebrate the benefits of legalization if you do not adjust the consequences of criminalization. But I also know this, is that I know who that was disproportionately impacting. Us. And so, I am clear to all the people of my state that I'm here for everybody. Like, if you're a Marylander, you're good with me. That's all I need to know. You're a Marylander, you're good, I'm here to protect, I'm here to fight for you. But I do know the work of repair is necessary. And it's something that cannot wait. And it's something that's why we're gonna keep on pushing in our administration to actually do, you know, do action items, because I want to move fast on this stuff.

• 28:20Fred Taylor?

  To go along with repairing, how important is the redistricting commission that you've set up?

• 28:25Speaker 04

  I think it's incredibly important, because I think that it's also helping to address the damage that is being done right in front of our face. I'm very clear about why we're even having this conversation in the first place, is that, you know, we have, you know, every single decade, every state goes through a process of identifying, do they have fair maps, and what do the fair maps look like? We have a federal administration that has now decided to say like, well, I want certain states to now go through a process in the mid-decade. Texas, Missouri, Ohio, Florida, right? Literally handpicking and choosing. And then you have those places that are then sitting in back rooms with Sharpies,

• 29:07Speaker 04

  determining what their maps look like, trying to get congressional seats, because they know they can't win on the merit, so they alter the rules. So my only point is this, if the rest of the country is gonna go through a mid-decade redistricting examination, determine whether or not they have fair maps, so will Maryland. And so, I have ordered a governor's redistricting advisory commission, which is a bipartisan commission, Democrats, Republicans, who are then actually doing something that most of these other states are not doing, actually listening to people. Going and doing open town halls, listening to people's input, and they will come back with their recommendations as to what they think our fair maps should be. And so, I'm really proud of the fact that we've actually gone through a democratic

• 29:51Speaker 04

  process to make sure that our democracy is not gonna be determined by a president. Our democracy's gonna be determined by the people. Because that's the origins of what we stand on and the thing that we should be fighting for.

• 30:05Fred Taylor?

  What's harder, Wes, getting policy passed, or getting your kids' attention, pulling them away from the phone?

• 30:12Speaker 04

  Ooh, Lord.

• 30:14Speaker 04

  That phone is a beast, isn't it?

• 30:15Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, it is.

• 30:16Speaker 04

  Well, you know, and essentially, it's one of the things, and I give a lot of credit to my wife, our state's first lady, who is just, she's so dope. But one of the big initiatives she's working on is actually dealing with children's mental health. And a lot of children's mental health that we're dealing with actually goes back to technology. This grasp that technology has, these algorithms that they have, which are intentionally targeting our kids. And so I'm really, I'm thankful for the work that she continues to do and that our state is really doing on this issue of making sure that we're just protecting our kids from the fact that there are some nefarious actors that are out there and are not thinking about the long-term health and welfare of our children. The policy piece is interesting, though, because I actually, in many ways, really like

• 31:01Speaker 04

  the fact that this requires us to work with people in a different and collective way. I'm a big believer in this idea that partnership produces progress and nothing else ever will, that you're not going to bully your way to a better life or for the people that you're intending to fight for. But there is no doubt that, you know, and I've learned, man, politics is a messy business. You know, it's hard because not everybody's going to be on the same sheet of music. It's hard because I don't come from a traditional political background, and so I think, you know, so this idea that, oh, Democrats do this, Republicans do that, like, I don't understand any of that stuff, because that's not where I came from.

• 31:43Speaker 04

  So it's a challenging business because it just takes a lot of work to try to get enough people to have your point of view on things. But I just continue to go back to the fact that the work is worth it.

• 31:55Ryan Clark?

  You lit up when you talked about, oh, I'm done. On our show, we like to give people relationship advice, right?

• 32:02Speaker 04

  I've been hearing.

• 32:03Ryan Clark?

  So let's say if I want to hold an office, how do I pick the woman that's going to be great for when I hold office so I can be like, man, she even better than I am? Right? Because we care about who the spouse is, and so my real point is, because me and Chan like to know these things, is how you shot your shot. You know what I mean? Like, we hit the Robin Hood Foundation at the time. I need to know where we were, you know, where you were in your life, like, how you...

• 32:31Channing Crowder?

  I hope you ain't used philanthropic measures to get your woman.

• 32:35Ryan Clark?

  Sometimes you gotta use philanthropic measures, you know what I'm saying?

• 32:39Channing Crowder?

  You know, I love these kids.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  Do you see all this work I'm doing? Do you see?

• 32:47Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? Like, I just need to know. There has to be a specific way to pick a first lady, you know what I mean?

• 32:56Speaker 04

  I did, I shot my shot hard, but you know what's funny? Is that we actually got set up by family. Okay. Her aunt is friends with my aunt and uncle. And they was like, oh, you guys should meet and so on and so forth. And y'all know, like, sometimes when family tries to set you up, it's like, this is not going to end well. Because they look crazy and it's like... And so it's like, so she's like, you know, you should really meet her. And I'm like, okay, great, that sounds, that sounds fun. And so I was like, all right, let's grab coffee.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:23Speaker 04

  And I tell people...

• 33:24Speaker 02

  Because you can always leave coffee quick.

• 33:26Speaker 04

  And coffee's like 15 minutes? Coffee's like a few dollars? You know what I mean? Like, you know, all these people who do all this first date, they take them out to really fancy restaurants. And I was like, you don't even know this person. Right. You don't know anything about them. And what if you show up and you sit down and you're like, why am I here? And like, and they start ordering everything on the menu and you gotta pay for it? I'm like, coffee. Like, a straight cheat code for all these little young kids that are trying to... Like, coffee, first date, coffee. So I go pick her up, I'm like, let's grab coffee. And I'm knocking on the door, and she opens the door, and I was like, oh.

• 34:00Speaker 04

  Okay. All right, well, you know, and I'm her voice guy, I was like, how you doing? I'm Wes, you know. It's just nice to meet you, you know. And then that coffee turned into like five hours. Where we went and had coffee, then we had dinner, because like, you know, we passed the coffee phase now, let's have dinner. But like, she just became, so quickly, she just became this, this invaluable part of my life. Where everything, I would think about, not just about her, but through her. How it impacts her. And so I remember when we talked about the first shot, I was interested in dating her at that point. She was still kind of like, eh, I'm not sure, because I was actually living in England. Because I was studying on a Rhodes Scholarship at that point.

• 34:46Speaker 04

  She had always told me that her dream was to go to Italy, that her dream trip was Italy. So she comes and visits me in England, because I was studying over there, with a bunch of her friends. And I was like, "Listen, um, how about you join me and a bunch of my friends? We're going over to Prague for New Year's." She shows up, she's like, "That sounds like fun." We show up, go to the airport, she's just, "Get to England and I'll take care of the rest." We go to the airport, now, trust me, it ain't like fancy, we was going like Ryanair. This is like, this is like $10 flights. Trust me, trust me, trust me. But she shows up, we go to the airport, and she thinks we're going to Prague, and she's like, "I think we're in the wrong line." And I was like, "We're not." Because I was like, "You've always said your dream trip was Italy." So, I was like, "So I'm actually going to take you to Florence," and we hung out there.

• 35:31Speaker 04

  So when I talk about shoot my shot, I was like, "If she's not interested in me after this, it's really not going to work out." Arsenal. I was like, "Listen, we're going to be overwhelming force."

• 35:42Speaker 02

  Hey, that's how we're from coffee to Italy? Not Italy, to Italy? God. If she say, "No," then she really don't like you.

• 35:52Speaker 04

  Oh, no. Then it's like, "You know what? Just lose my number, just lose my number, this ain't going to work out."

• 35:57Fred Taylor?

  And then you're home on your bye week, how y'all end up in Vegas?

• 36:03Fred Taylor?

  Like, and whose idea was Elvis?

• 36:05Speaker 04

  Well, you know what actually was crazy? So, yeah, so I proposed to her right before I deployed for Afghanistan. I then head out, we do all of our final training, I fly out to Afghanistan. That first half of that deployment was tough. I came home, actually because I was burying my grandfather. He passed away. And, uh, and so they allowed me to come back and bury him. But I remembered that the military treats fiancés very differently than they do wives. Fiancés, they treat you no different from a girlfriend. And so if something were to happen to me, she would receive nothing. She wouldn't receive any of the, any of the ways that the military, I think, really beautifully

• 36:48Speaker 04

  celebrates the spouses of those we lost. And so I was like, you know what? I was like, let's just go to Vegas and get married. And she's like, that's crazy. I was like, we're already engaged. So all we're doing is speeding it up. And the only thing I was like, we just cannot tell my family. Because if my grandmother hears that I got married and she wasn't there, it's gonna be a problem. And so we just went to Vegas. We eloped Elvis Presley married us. Nobody knew. Nobody knew. Because when I came back, when I finally finished up my deployment, we had our like, big wedding. And everyone was like, oh, congratulations. And we're like, y'all don't even know. We've been there. This is just a party for y'all. It's just a party.

• 37:30Ryan Clark?

  It's just a party, anyway. You know, when you get into politics, and you talked about the ugly world of politics, people dig into your past and they want to figure out how much of what we believe we know about this person is true. And from a military standpoint, a lot of that centered around the bronze medal.

• 37:49Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 37:50Ryan Clark?

  And, you know, obviously, eventually, you were awarded the bronze medal. What experiences in the military helped prepare you for the seat you hold now?

• 38:02Speaker 04

  I think that everything that I do is influenced by the military. Everything. The idea that the only thing you can expect about Tuesday is it was gonna look nothing like Monday. And just be ready for it. The idea that, that you have to stay frosty on everything you do. The idea that, you know, that not just the, my personal leadership philosophy, but now the motto of the state is leave no one behind. I got that from the military. My second day of military training, leave no one behind, ever. You get one of my people, I will send a battalion in to go get them if I have to. And, you know, what was really interesting was when I was awarded the bronze star, was, you know, when I was told by my commander in Afghanistan, he's like, listen, you know,

• 38:47Speaker 04

  we put you in for the bronze star, I've already gotten verbal confirmation, you're gonna receive it. And I appreciate it. And he told me, he's like, put it on, I was applying for the White House felicitations, but put it on your application. Says, you got it. And it's my commander, so I'm not... I'm not questioning it. And I also thought nothing about it. And it wasn't until, to your point, you kind of see the silliness of politics, that I even knew. In fact, when I called the commander and I say, you know, I was like, you know about the Bronze Star? He's like, yeah, you got it. And I said, I didn't. And he just realized that it was a paperwork error. But people were making this out to be like, it was like, I, or he, or whatever like that, wasn't telling the truth. It's like, this is lost paperwork. We're in a combat zone. And it was lost paperwork.

• 39:29Speaker 04

  And so as soon as the military found out, they came back and they said, you know, we realized this is not on him, this is on us. And they awarded me the Bronze Star. They said for an award that he earned 20 years ago.

• 39:40Ryan Clark?

  It's crazy for all of that to be focused around the Bronze Star with you having done so much.

• 39:48Speaker 04

  And that's the thing. I totally was like, yo, I never did any of this for medals. I don't do any of this stuff for awards. I don't do this stuff for something I can wear on a uniform that I have not worn, you know, in decades. Like, that's not why I did it. I did not leave my family. I did not go out and serve in a combat zone. I did not go lead soldiers in combat to get a medal. That's not why I did it. And that's why I would never do it. I don't believe, like, service is not selfish. Service is selfless. And that's why real public servants, why I have so much love and admiration and respect for.

• 40:32Speaker 04

  Because for people who are willing to give of themselves for somebody they might never even meet, that's public service. And so, you know, when the whole thing came, I was like, listen, I'm not losing one ounce of sleep over this. Because I was like, I never did it. I appreciate that the Army came back and said, listen, this is our mistake. Here's your, you know, you earned this. I appreciate it. But I also told them, when they issued it to me, I didn't do it for this.

• 41:00Speaker 07

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 41:11Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Somemagnitide injection 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 41:29Channing Crowder?

  How does that change you? You hear the horror stories, you hear the PTSD and everything about going. You get deployed, you just said it, you got married to your wife or fiance, then wife at the time would have benefits if you were to die overseas. You're successful post-service, but how did that change you to be somewhere where honestly, every call could have been, Wes ain't, he ain't coming home today. He's not, he's not coming back to the United States. What did that do to you mentally? And like, I'm kind of speak for those soldiers that do it because I think we see the guys in the airport with the, with the outfit on and we always hit them with the, hey man, appreciate what you do.

• 42:09Speaker 04

  Thanks for your service.

• 42:09Channing Crowder?

  Thanks for your service, but speak on that, what that really did and how it changed you.

• 42:14Speaker 04

  You know, one of the reasons that we've been so aggressive when it comes to supporting our military veterans is, is it is because it is very personal. You know, I, I realize that for so many of these men and women, they come home and you know, we think that for the first day back when we throw them the parade or you know, people jumping their arms or we have the video camera there. It's like, yeah, but remember there is a day two and a day three and a day four when all those things aren't there and where these folks are coming back home and coming back to a world that in many ways moved on while they were gone. That there were people who have come back and even though physically, even the ones who come back and physically look to be intact, like, oh, thank God you're back home, but

• 42:58Speaker 04

  realize that the casualties of war oftentimes will stay with you.

• 43:04Speaker 04

  And so it's the reason that we made a promise to all these veterans. Where we simply said, if you're willing to sacrifice on behalf of this country, this country will make sure that you and your family are good. And I just feel like for so many of our veterans, we're breaking our promise and we're lying to them. And so, for example, so when I became the governor, I said, this was gonna be a place that we were going to aggressively support our veteran community. We've now doubled the amount of PTO, paid time off, that we have for people who are serving in our National Guard, who also are state employees, because until that point, we had state people who were working for the state, who were using their PTO for their guard service. That's not what that's for. That we've been able to make Maryland the first city in the country that has pathway for free dental care and healthcare

• 43:49Speaker 04

  for members of our National Guard, because you should never have somebody who's willing to put on the uniform of this country and still has to worry about their own dental care. You know, that we have been able, that we've been able to give a tax cut to military, to military veterans. And saying, we want to actually show that thank you for your service should mean something. So, you're absolutely right where, I feel like for so many people who are coming back and deploying in places that most of this country could not identify on a map. For people who are talking about all the military things that we should do when they're not willing to put on the uniform themselves, that it is important that for all of our military personnel, that we are actually giving them the honor and the respect that they gave this country. Because when the country asked them to serve,

• 44:32Speaker 04

  they didn't say, "No, I'm good," or maybe a little bit later. They raised their hand and they said, "Sign me up." And so I just think the country needs to do the same thing to them.

• 44:41Fred Taylor?

  Well, as you said, something that's been, I've been running in my head since you mentioned it, service is not selfish. I think that's a hell of a mantra for all politicians out there. They gotta understand that they're doing the work for the people.

• 44:55Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 44:56Fred Taylor?

  Right, you said, "Opportunity is fragile." "The moment matters." What's one sentence you would hope, you know, a kid from Baltimore or the Bronx would say, you know, after this moment?

• 45:09Speaker 04

  I would say something my grandparents told me right before I left for Afghanistan. They actually wrote in a bible. One of those little bibles that I kept inside my flak vest. And they just wrote four words. They wrote, "Have faith, not fear." Have faith, not fear. Because I just feel like some of the best decisions I've made in my life have been rooted in faith. Well, I couldn't have given you a guarantee what would have happened, but I had a faith. And some of the worst decisions I made in my life were rooted in fear. Where I was scared of something. I was scared this wouldn't happen. I was scared this would happen. I was scared, I was scared, I was scared. And it's either the decisions that you make or the decisions that you don't make

• 45:53Speaker 04

  oftentimes are the ones that can have the worst influences. And so I would just say, well, my grandparents told me, have faith, not fear. And if you're rooted in faith, generally you're gonna make better decisions.

• 46:03Fred Taylor?

  And with that, we always ask our guests, what's their biggest pivot in life? And that's that moment you can look back on and say, because this happened to me or for me, I am who I am today.

• 46:14Speaker 04

  I think probably the biggest pivot

• 46:17Speaker 04

  in my life happened to me. That was when I got sent away to military school.

• 46:23Speaker 04

  I mean, I was having some real issues. I was a kid who just was angry. And just the anger showed itself in deciding which days were worthwhile to go to school and which ones weren't, thinking that fighting was just the answer to everything. And my mother decided to send me away to military school for I had a mandatory year in military school in Pennsylvania. And I remember when I first showed up there, I was very clear to these people. I was like, y'all, I'm not staying. And like, don't, like, they're yelling at me and they're screaming. I'm like, listen, I'm just being honest with you. Stop wasting your time on me. Like, worry about him. Because I'm gone. And I literally ran away. I ran away five times in the first four days.

• 47:04Fred Taylor?

  Wow.

• 47:04Speaker 04

  Where they had, they had these big black gates that surround the school. And so every time they turned their back, I would run.

• 47:09Fred Taylor?

  That's how you average 25 yards to catch.

• 47:12Channing Crowder?

  He couldn't be running that fast.

• 47:14Speaker 04

  They can't catch me.

• 47:19Speaker 04

  And they, they, they literally, the, the, the second last time I tried to run away, it was because they drew me a map on how to get to the train station. Cause I was looking for the train station out in town. And they drew me a map on how to get to the train station. So I'm looking at this map and I'm, I'll never forget him. His name was, his name was Sergeant Austin and his Sergeant, and his name was Dallas Austin, which I thought was hilarious. But he gave me this map and I'm like, there's tears rolling up in my eyes and I'm looking, I'm looking, I'm like, yo, I'm gonna never forget you. You know, when you get out, let me know, we'll grab lunch or something. And he's just like, just get out of here. So I had, I had planned this whole big great escape. So I was left, following the map, going out and I'm just going deeper and deeper into the woods. And again, I'm like 13, so I'm like hearing crap. I'm hearing like bears and snakes and crazy things that weren't there.

• 48:04Speaker 04

  But I'm like, I'm scared to death. Cause like I'm from cities and now I'm in the middle of the woods and I have no idea what's going on. It was like a horror movie. And then out of nowhere, I just like started crying because I am scared. And I started hearing like footsteps and then I started hearing laughter. And I realized that my entire chain of command followed me out. The map was fake. The map literally took me, the map took me to the middle of the woods. They just, they just enjoyed watching a flashlight do this. And then just stop.

• 48:36Speaker 04

  Hey man, you gotta have a sense of humor. You got to. And so they're cracking up and they brought me back to campus and they're like, you, you're allowed to make one phone call. Call whoever you want, we don't care, but you got five minutes, make a phone call. And I called my mom, it was the only number I knew. So I'm calling her, I'm telling her, mommy, you gotta come get me, dah dah dah, you know, I'll be better. And that's when she said to me, she's like, too many people have sacrificed in order for you to be there. And it's 1 o'clock in the morning. And she's like, and too many people are rooting for you. And it's not all about you. And so they took the phone back, they sent me back out to my room. I woke up the next morning, I mean even, the, the angriest I've ever been was that next morning when I was like, I'm not gonna get out of here. But eventually I started giving it a shot.

• 49:20Speaker 04

  And by the end of the first year, I could play sports because I wasn't on probation anymore and you know, my grades were, were better and I had friends and like we were, and they gave me some ranks, so I was in charge of people now. So, so I would say that was the, that was one of the most important pivots when I was like 13, 14 years old, when I just realized that the world was bigger than what was just directly in front of me. Right.

• 49:44Channing Crowder?

  What's that? No, you're a busy man. I just have to ask because you say numbers that just roll off. And politicians, period, just unfathomable. He just said, you know, 1.2 billion dollars, we put that here. 400 million, this and that. Like, dealing with that kind of money, being a part of the decisions that are made on a billion dollars. Was it, was it weird to, to be sitting down knowing where a billion dollars is going?

• 50:10Speaker 04

  Well, no, because honestly, it was astonishing to me where the money was not going before.

• 50:17Speaker 04

  You know, I, I think about for so much of, for so much of, of, of who we are, and this is actually an important lesson. Actually, my wide receiver coach taught me this, was he said, if you want to ever learn anything about society, you must learn budgets. Because budgets will tell you everything. And I think about it, where in context, it's like, it's just like us in our, in our, in our life. If you, if you were to show me, here is my monthly budget, I could tell you what's important in your life. Right? If you tell me I spend X on this, I spend Y on that, I spend Z on this, I could say, well, these are probably the things that Shannon finds be, like, this is important, because that's where he's putting his resources.

• 51:00Speaker 04

  Government's so different. I'm looking, so I'm, I'm looking at the fact that when you are putting capital towards things like increasing prices on folks and giving millionaires tax cuts, you're telling me about your values. Versus if you're like, listen, I'm going to make sure we're supporting our historically black colleges and universities, and that they're getting the resources that they need. We're going to make sure that we can put a little extra money in the pockets of, you know, working families, that we are going to do things like a child tax credit, because we have to stop disincentivizing work, and we've got to raise the minimum wage, and so people should not be working jobs. Like, like, like my mom, like, people,

• 51:43Speaker 04

  we have people in this state who are working multiple jobs and still living at or below a poverty line. Like, that tells me everything that I need to know when I look at a budget that does that. And so, so it is, it is, it's, it's just like my wide receiver coach, Coach Ogoneski told me, just follow the budgets, man. And that's why this power is so unique is because the budget, it starts with us. We introduce it to the General Assembly. They can then, you know, do their, work their stuff on it. But like, our values are numerical. And we have to remember that the numbers we're putting out, it says, what do you actually care about?

• 52:26Ryan Clark?

  Let's say you ever had like, one of those offices that could, you know, offer pardons?

• 52:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:35Ryan Clark?

  You know.

• 52:36Speaker 04

  I do now.

• 52:38Speaker 04

  As long as you're doing the state of Maryland.

• 52:42Ryan Clark?

  Would you, if you got the highest office, would you pardon Wes Moore?

• 52:47Speaker 04

  Oh, that's an interesting question. Well, no, I mean, one thing that I, one thing I do think about my pardon responsibility is for people, because like, it is a very personal thing also for me, where friends, family, et cetera. I do not get involved in pardons with friends, families, and that type of thing. There's actually commissions that will do that work. And I just think that's important. I, I've seen, I've seen other people completely, I think be so irresponsible with the way they use pardons and with that responsibility. Because there's, there's 51 people on the, on the, on the planet that have the authority to pardon people in the United States, right? Every governor.

• 53:28Ryan Clark?

  Governors.

• 53:28Speaker 04

  And the presidents of the United States. I have seen the reckless way that the pardon power has been used. And I have made a commitment that I will, that power is too strong and too important for me to be reckless with the way that we do it. And so I've, I've said that for family.

• 53:49Speaker 04

  Friends, that type of thing. There's actually an independent pardon process that they would have to go through. Because I am so disappointed with the way that some of these other folks are using the pardon power in a way that is not just embarrassing, but in a way that is dangerous and a way that it was never intended to be, to be used for.

• 54:10Ryan Clark?

  You've accomplished a ton. You know, you've talked about your mother, you mentioned your grandparents as well. But your father passed away when you were extremely young.

• 54:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 54:20Ryan Clark?

  And the way you, the passion you have for young men and young boys, and the way that you see sowing into their lives is much like a father would do.

• 54:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 54:32Ryan Clark?

  How often do you think about your father passing away? And what it would have been like to grow up with him?

• 54:40Speaker 04

  All the time, Clark. I mean, I still talk to him. I really do. I mean, and I'm, I'm convinced that he's, he's been moving pieces this whole time. And he's been like, ah, you know, let me, let me move this one out the way for him. Let me make sure he's, that he don't get trapped up on that. I still talk to him constantly and ask his guidance and ask his thoughts and, and you know, and it's something that I, I have a real deal of pride that I have his, that his DNA runs through me. I have a real deal of pride that, you know, when I, when I walk around as Wes Moore, that there are people who will come to me and say, you know, I knew your father, Wes Moore. Like that, that means something to me.

• 55:24Speaker 04

  I am completely convinced that I'm gonna see him again one day. I'm completely convinced that, that, you know, one day I'm gonna be able to embrace him. And I just know that when I do, I just wanna be able to say, say, you know, I'm proud of you. And so that's how, that's how I try to live my life.

• 55:42Ryan Clark?

  Nah, man, I love that. Also too, I don't know how it works with governors, like if I gotta get, you know, people that work with you's number, 25 pushups on Steelers Ravens?

• 55:52Speaker 04

  Oh, absolutely.

• 55:53Ryan Clark?

  Who wins the AFC North?

• 55:55Speaker 04

  That's it? 25?

• 55:57Ryan Clark?

  I mean, you was in the military, so I'm sure you can do more pushups than that. Yeah, you a little swole.

• 56:02Speaker 04

  Well, let me just...

• 56:03Ryan Clark?

  So, what's up?

• 56:05Speaker 04

  Why would you think that the Steelers can beat the Ravens for the AFC right now?

• 56:09Ryan Clark?

  Well, one, y'all aren't that good. I mean, that's, that's pretty simple. The defense has gotten better. Something's wrong with Lamar, right? Lamar's been missing practice weekly.

• 56:18Speaker 04

  True.

• 56:18Ryan Clark?

  Going into last week, he only had one rushing attempt that was over 10 yards. Lamar can sneeze and run for 10 yards.

• 56:26Speaker 04

  True.

• 56:27Ryan Clark?

  So I know the greatest runner that's ever played the position, he banged up.

• 56:30Speaker 04

  Yup.

• 56:31Ryan Clark?

  Right? The chemistry's off. And it just don't feel right, right now, in Baltimore. And also, this is just my hopes and dreams that we do.

• 56:40Speaker 04

  This is smoking like a real Steelers fan right now.

• 56:44Speaker 04

  This is smoking like a real Steelers... It just doesn't feel good in Baltimore. This is not my analyst talk.

• 56:51Channing Crowder?

  Their quarterback is 75 with a broken hand, but something wrong with Lamar.

• 56:55Ryan Clark?

  Right, right, exactly. I'm talking about what's wrong with Lamar.

• 57:00Speaker 04

  This is a pivot. Is that ESPN? I control the narrative here. Isn't like Rudolph on the set this week? Well, okay, guys.

• 57:07Ryan Clark?

  But Lamar.

• 57:08Speaker 04

  Okay, guys.

• 57:09Ryan Clark?

  Guys, we're talking about, we're in Maryland. We ain't talking about what's happening in Western Pennsylvania. That's your problem now. Everybody worried about what's going on with us.

• 57:18Speaker 04

  All I'm saying is, now, listen. There is not a team in the NFL that on paper is better than the Baltimore Ravens. I mean, think about this.

• 57:26Ryan Clark?

  The paper before the season, I agree with that.

• 57:28Speaker 04

  I mean, but real, think about this, right? Think about this. Where you have an offense that consists of Lamar Jackson, Derrick Henry in your backfield, likely, and also Andrews as your tight ends, right? Zay Flowers, DeAndre Hopkins. Like, this is a video game, what they got going on.

• 57:47Ryan Clark?

  That's what we thought.

• 57:47Speaker 04

  That's what we thought. Now, I agree with you that the chemistry has been off. And there is something that we need to, like, something we need these guys, I'm saying, like, there is something about playing like a Raven. That when you put that jersey on, that means something. When you walk out there in M and T Bank, it's like, no, we play like Ravens today. And there is, there's this dog that always captured what it meant to be a Raven. And we haven't had that all year. We got people like jogging off, you know, giving, giving interviews, sounding crazy. It's like, no, like, nah, man, we're Ravens. We don't do this. So there is something about, do we have the locker room and do we have the discipline to actually go, go far?

• 58:32Speaker 04

  But I will say this. First of all, thank God we're in the AFC North.

• 58:39Speaker 04

  But I'll say this. If you look at who does well in the, in the, in the playoffs, there's two things I always look for when you go into playoff football. Who's hot? Who's healthy? Yep. Right? Who's hot? Who's healthy? And the truth is, right now, we're not playing great football, but I would argue that no one in the NFL right now is playing great football. Everybody's beatable, but the Ravens do have, I think, one of the, like, we had our toughest games in the first half. Yes. Of this season. This second half, besides the division games, like going to Pittsburgh is going to be hard. Going to Cincinnati is, you know, anytime you're playing a division rival. Joe's back. Joe's back. Al the Joe. But I wouldn't bet against the Ravens.

• 59:21Speaker 04

  If we can use this second half to continue to be hot because the second half of the schedule is not as difficult as the first half. Yep. And if we can not stay healthy, if we can get healthy. If we do that, I'm not sure if there's a team in the NFL that really wants to see us come playoff time.

• 59:37Fred Taylor?

  Quick questions about your Ravens. The top 15 greatest Ravens of all time.

• 59:41Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 59:42Fred Taylor?

  Lamar Jackson was number four and Joe Flacco was number seven. I went into the comments, someone said Flacco has to be above Lamar until Lamar wins a Super Bowl. And that's been the biggest question.

• 59:53Speaker 04

  I, I don't believe that only because, so where's Trent Dilfer?

• 59:57Fred Taylor?

  He's not on this.

• 59:58Speaker 04

  Exactly. He is a ring.

• 59:59Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:00Speaker 04

  So I, I mean, listen, I mean, Joe Flacco, Joe Flacco did his thing when we needed him to do his thing. And what Joe Flacco was, and I'm not, this is no shade on Joe Flacco, like that man has turned, he has had a career. I mean, he's the only person I think has played on every single team in the AFC North. Pittsburgh. Except Pittsburgh, right? So it's like, so respect to him for having a long and a durable career. Joe Flacco at his prime was an efficient quarterback.

• 1:00:29Speaker 04

  Lamar Jackson is the most transformational quarterback arguably in the history of the NFL.

• 1:00:35Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:35Speaker 04

  So to say that Joe Flacco should be ranked higher because he has a ring when Lamar Jackson is what 27, 26, a two-time MVP and someone who still has a lot of years left, I just think that's that's kind of rich. At his peak, Joe Flacco was efficient.

• 1:00:55Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 1:00:56Speaker 04

  And I think that's all Joe Flacco respectfully.

• 1:00:59Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:00Speaker 04

  That's all Joe Flacco ever was.

• 1:01:01Ryan Clark?

  When Lamar Jackson, and I say when, because as much as I'm messing with you about the Baltimore Ravens, when Lamar Jackson wins a Super Bowl, Lamar Jackson is immediately amongst the greatest players who have ever played the game of football.

• 1:01:14Speaker 04

  100%.

• 1:01:14Ryan Clark?

  He should have, and well, he very well could have, three MVPs. Josh Allen was great last year, but what he's done at the quarterback position here in Baltimore for an entire NFL is transcendent.

• 1:01:26Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 1:01:27Ryan Clark?

  And you're talking about that list, then it has to go what, Ray, Ed, Ogden, Lamar?

• 1:01:33Speaker 04

  Ooh.

• 1:01:34Fred Taylor?

  You're good.

• 1:01:35Ryan Clark?

  That's what it was?

• 1:01:36Fred Taylor?

  Ray, Ed, Ogden, Lamar, Terrell Suggs.

• 1:01:39Ryan Clark?

  Yeah. So you can't be here.

• 1:01:41Speaker 04

  That's a good, no, that's, that's, that's, yeah.

• 1:01:43Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:44Speaker 04

  Yeah. That's right.

• 1:01:45Ryan Clark?

  You can't be here not talk Army Navy.

• 1:01:48Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 1:01:49Ryan Clark?

  Right. It's, I got to see.

• 1:01:50Speaker 04

  It's the best game, best game, best game of football.

• 1:01:52Ryan Clark?

  I was about to say, from a rivalry standpoint.

• 1:01:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:55Ryan Clark?

  There, there is no game with the tradition, the, the pageantry, but also the meaning.

• 1:02:01Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:02:01Ryan Clark?

  Of Army Navy. What does that mean to you?

• 1:02:05Speaker 04

  You know, it's, it's kind of odd being an Army guy living in Annapolis because the Naval Academy's like down the street. So I'm always careful what I say because there's a whole lot of them.

• 1:02:16Speaker 04

  I don't like being surrounded.

• 1:02:17Ryan Clark?

  Judging by the dude standing by the door, you cool.

• 1:02:22Speaker 04

  But we have, I always say I love the Navy 364 days of the year. But that one day, I want to see them get beaten so bad.

• 1:02:34Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 1:02:34Speaker 04

  And, and you know, but honestly, the reason that I really believe that Army Navy should be mandatory viewing by this country, like everyone should sit there and watch the Army Navy game. And not necessarily game, because generally it's not a very good game, because there's hardly anybody who ever plays for Army or Navy that is, that you have pro scouts in the stands.

• 1:02:53Ryan Clark?

  And they also run the ball every snap.

• 1:02:55Speaker 04

  Every snap. Everything, everything's RPO. Everything. Every play. So it's like, so it is not, it's not great football. But I wish people would watch the pregame and the postgame.

• 1:03:09Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 1:03:09Speaker 04

  And watch it when you have these two teams who will spend 60 minutes trying to kill each other. But at the end of the game, the midshipmen march over to the side of the cadets and they sing the Army alma mater. And then the Army cadets march over to the Navy, to the, to the midshipmen, and they'll sing the Navy alma mater. Because they realize like, listen, I'm about to do battle with you for 60 minutes. But I know in the next phase of my life, we'll be doing battle together. Because we're all gonna be wearing, we're all gonna have different uniforms on, but we're all gonna have the same flag.

• 1:03:49Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 1:03:50Speaker 04

  On our shoulder. There's something so powerful about that and about this game and watch just a celebration of patriotism and a celebration of, of sportsmanship and a celebration of what's right and what this country should lean on, this idea that like, we're not at war with one another. Like, we'll battle. Well, battle on ideas, we're not at war with one another. And I think there is something that the Army Navy game really captures in that.

• 1:04:22Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I think you had a really cool during the campaign with the guy you were running against. It was like, we don't have to agree on policy, but we do agree that we are both people and we both matter to this country and to this state. And I thought that was very powerful. I'll say this, I've never been to an inauguration, but when you are inaugurated as the President of the United States, I'd like to be there.

• 1:04:47Speaker 04

  You should come next January, or two Januaries, when we do our inauguration here in Annapolis.

• 1:04:53Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 1:04:54Speaker 04

  It's gonna be very, very powerful to see that inauguration there. We gonna run this thing back.

• 1:04:59Ryan Clark?

  Well, I tell you what, man, if I'm invited, I will be here.

• 1:05:02Speaker 04

  Oh, you'll be there.

• 1:05:02Ryan Clark?

  Man, much appreciation.

• 1:05:03Speaker 04

  But you gotta make sure that you knock out your pushups first, and I might make you wear purple.

• 1:05:08Ryan Clark?

  No, okay, how about this, how about this, I will do the, whoever does not win AFC North has to do 50 pushups.

• 1:05:17Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:05:18Ryan Clark?

  In the other team's hoodie.

• 1:05:21Speaker 04

  Done, done, done.

• 1:05:23Fred Taylor?

  He like purple though, Arson.

• 1:05:24Speaker 04

  Done.

• 1:05:25Fred Taylor?

  He like purple, he's an LSU guy. I don't even do nothing, boy.

• 1:05:33Fred Taylor?

  Nothing.