Dr. Mark Hyman: Everything You're Eating Is Toxic, and Big Pharma Likes It That Way

Big companies are poisoning Americans. Dr. Mark Hyman has been saying that for thirty years. He’s finally been vindicated. (00:00) Bobby Kennedy as Trump’s New HHS Director (04:04) Obesity and “Ultra Processed Foods” (23:07) Does Junk Food Cause Cancer and Alzheimer's? (45:31) Who’s Funding the Chronic Health Disease Epidemic? (50:39) Healthy Food Decreasing Violence in Prisons (57:30) Vaccines Paid partnerships with: Meriwether Farms https://MeriwetherFarms.com/Tucker Use promo code “TUCKERCHRISTMAS” to save Cozy Earth https://CozyEarth.com/Tucker Promo code “Tucker” for up to 40% off Eight Sleep Get $600 off the Pod 4 Ultra https://EightSleep.com/Tucker Levels https://Levels. Link/Tucker 2 extra months free Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:30Tucker Carlson?

  So, okay, Bobby Kennedy, your longtime friend, looks like he's going to be the HHS secretary, assess. Did you think that was going to happen in your lifetime?

• 0:40Speaker 02

  Well, not in my lifetime, no, Tucker. We're in this historic moment where, you know, America's waking up to the fact that it's been the frog in boiling water, slowly getting sicker and sicker and sicker, bankrupting our country with almost $5 trillion in healthcare costs, one $5 of our economy, 80% of it or more is preventable, 99% of Medicare dollars are spent on preventable chronic disease. And never this conversation has happened in the political discourse until now.

• 1:10Tucker Carlson?

  Which is a little crazy because you hear people talk about healthcare all the time.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  Well, they talk about healthcare as a way of like limiting entitlements or Medicare for all.

• 1:17Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly. Everybody's upset about healthcare on some level for some reason, but I haven't heard anybody until recently in the public sphere, address like why it's so expensive.

• 1:25Speaker 02

  Right. So the question, I know I'm a functional medicine doctor.

• 1:28Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:28Speaker 02

  My focus is on why? What's the cause? What's the root cause? The cause, the cause, the cause.

• 1:44Tucker Carlson?

  Welcome to the Tucker Carlson Show. We bring you stories that have not been showcased anywhere else, and they're not censored, of course, because we're not gatekeepers. We are honest brokers here to tell you what we think you need to know and do it honestly. Check out all of our content at tuckercarlson.com. Here's the episode. Shouldn't that be every doctor?

• 2:04Speaker 02

  Well, ideally, yes. But I remember sitting in my office years ago, and I had a diabetic patient come in. I realized, you know, I can't cure diabetes in my office. It's cured on the farm and the food we grow. It's cured in the food manufacturing process. It's cured by what people buy in the grocery store. It's cured in the kitchen. And so we really have to look at the root causes of our food system and say, why are my patients eating this food? Well, it's because the food system. Well, why do we have the food system we have and the and the way in which it's operating that drives this chronic disease epidemic, which now is the biggest killer on the planet and is caused by food. Food has outpaced smoking as the number one killer in the world because 11 million people a year, 1 million. It's the biggest killer in the

• 2:48Speaker 02

  United States. Why does that happen? It's because our, our, our policies are driven in large part by industry, by the food industry, the ag industry, chemical and seed companies. And those are the companies that are profiting. This is the biggest food, biggest industry in the world. It's over 16 trillion dollars when you aggregate all the food companies, the fast food companies, the agricultural, chemical and seed companies. And, and this is enormous force that's driving our political process. And so a lot of the policies we have either by, you know, just kind of miss, misalignment of, of our expectations and incentives of what happened, or because of deliberate actions in the food companies have actually driven a food system that's making us sick. And

• 3:30Speaker 02

  we have an illness industrial complex. We have a system that's driving disease and everybody's profiting from it. And no one's addressed that before. And this is why we have the system. So we're supporting commodity crops, wheat, corn and soy that get turned into ultra-processed food, which is basically chemical science projects that our bodies are not used to. They're not technically defined as food. Food is something that helps, you know, nourish a human being, supports life and growth. These things don't. They do the opposite. They cause disease. And so we sort of slowly get in this system where we're, we're, we're the enormous rise in chronic diseases over the last 50 years. You know, Tucker, when I graduated medical school, the cost for healthcare in America was half a trillion dollars. Now it's almost 10 times that in my lifetime. When I graduated from medical school, there was not a single state with an

• 4:13Speaker 02

  obesity rate over 15%. Now there's not one with one under 30 and almost all are over 40, 42% of Americans are obese. We've seen that.

• 4:21Tucker Carlson?

  In all 50 states.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  All 50 states. Yeah, we see, I mean, and you know what? The highest diabetes mortality rates are in red states. 14 out of the 15 states with the highest diabetes mortality are red states. So this is affecting everybody in America. Doesn't matter whether you're. Red or blue or purple biology is bipartisan. You know, heart disease, cancer, dementia, diabetes. They don't know what, who you voted for.

• 4:44Tucker Carlson?

  What radicalized me was, so when I grew up, I'm a little younger than you, but you know, roughly the same generation. I, there were no fat people or I grew up none, zero. Affluent area, but still no fat, zero fat people. And I always thought that it was like a failure of will. It was a kind of sin.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, 100%.

• 5:02Tucker Carlson?

  And then I came, just from my own experience, to realize that if you just go about your life as the way Americans do, just what's presented you. And you don't make any effort to, to fight it. If you just sort of, all things being equal. You're gonna be like 70 pounds overweight. That happened to me. I was like, wow, I'm gonna be super fat. And if I don't really struggle. All the time. That's weird.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Well, it's, it's, we make the hard choices, the, the healthy choices and the easy choices, the unhealthy choices.

• 5:33Tucker Carlson?

  So that, well, that just, it made me think that actually people who are obese are not the perpetrators, but the victims of the crime.

• 5:42Speaker 02

  This is really important, Tucker. You just hit on something that is so critical, which is that we have blamed the victim for this problem.

• 5:48Tucker Carlson?

  I have.

• 5:49Speaker 02

  It's your fault you're fat. You're a glutton, you're lazy. And it's your fault. So just stop eating that crap and get healthy and you'll save America. That's bullshit.

• 5:58Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so I kind of, obviously it makes me feel better to hear that, but I think that's true.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  It's absolutely true. The NIH did an incredible study where they took a group of people and they fed them for two weeks, a whole foods diet matched for protein, fat, carbs, fiber. Then they fed them an ultra-processed diet and they saw what happened to their biology. The ultra-processed food, which is what 60% of our diet is, 67% of kids diet, it's 73% of the food on our grocery store shelves. When you eat that food, it dysregulates your appetite. You eat 500 calories more a day in a week. That's 3,500 calories. 3,500 calories equals a pound of weight gain. In a year, that's 52 pounds. So if Americans are eating this food, which is everywhere, which is ubiquitous, which we're marketed to death on, I mean, kids. Get targeted $14 billion.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  The food industry spends on marketing junk food to kids. They see an average of 30,000 ads a year. You could talk to your kid, breakfast, lunch and dinner and snacks about healthy food, and you're not going to be the marketing. And this, this to me is criminal. Most countries have banned this. Most companies, countries don't allow this. And for example, Chile has gotten all the food marketing to kids off between six in the morning and 10 at night. They have no more Tony the Tiger on Frosted Flakes, no more Toucan on Fruit Loops.

• 7:15Tucker Carlson?

  You're saying Frosted Flakes are a highly processed food?

• 7:17Speaker 02

  Of course they are. Yeah. I mean, I'm a serial killer, to tell the truth. I, I am a serial killer. I think cereal is the worst thing ever invented for humanity. It's basically 75% sugar. It's sugar for breakfast. It's dessert for breakfast. That's not what we should be eating. And so what's happened is there are, are, are ways in which we are making it so easy for people to make the wrong choice. And when you're exposed to these foods, you're going to gain weight. You're going to be dysregulated. You're going to destroy your microbiome. You're going to create inflammation. You're going to drive heart disease, cancer, diabetes, dementia, autoimmune diseases. All these things are coming at explosive rates. And, you know, I've looked at the data and even though we're spending more and more, it would be fine if we were spending $5 trillion and America was getting healthy. It would be fine if we're spending $485 billion on drugs if they are working.

• 8:01Speaker 02

  But for Tucker, the, the drugs that we're using for the diseases we have are not the right treatment. The right treatment is changing what we're eating. And if you look at heart disease, it's up 50%. Cancer's up 30%, 60% higher in those under 50. So we're seeing cancer rates rising in the young in rates we've never seen before.

• 8:17Tucker Carlson?

  Even though young people don't smoke cigarettes?

• 8:18Speaker 02

  No, it's the food. Colon cancer is the biggest thing.

• 8:21Tucker Carlson?

  But it's just a little crazy. Again, this is the benefit of being in your 50s because you sort of remember what the, the previous lives were. But like, if we get rid of smoking, I'm not endorsing smoking, then cancer is just going to like cease to exist.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  Well, certain cancers like lung cancer and other cancers have, have gone down. But when you see cancer rates increasing in children like by 30%, you see autoimmune diseases up 100%. You see mental health issues up 80%. You see autism up 1,000%. ADD up 200%. Diabetes up 400%. Alzheimer's up 150%. So we are screwing up here big time by not dealing with the root cause. And we're spending on all those conditions. Two to 300% more on drugs. So we're almost like, you know, we're increasing by one or two fold these diseases and the drug use has gone up two or three fold and we're losing. So if it was working, great, but it ain't working. And, and what's happening is that now, most people don't realize it, but that one of every dollars of your taxpayer dollars goes to fund our healthcare

• 9:19Speaker 02

  costs in America of that 4.9 trillion dollars, which was half a trillion when I graduated medical school, that's paid for by the taxpayer and it's mostly preventable. We're probably adding two trillion to our federal deficit every year because of this. And also, the, the amount of money we're spending is 40% of all healthcare bills. So if you look at the total healthcare bill, when you add in everything the government, not just Medicare, but any health service, the military, all federal employees, all the programs that are, that the government is funding around healthcare, it's 40% of the total healthcare bill in America is paid for by the US government. And we have enormous power to change how those dollars are spent and how chronic diseases address this country. And for the first time, take this on and not just try to find a pill

• 10:02Speaker 02

  for every ill, but to get to the root cause. And it's really from changing our food system from field to fork. And it's addressing the conflicts of interest in government. It's addressing NIH funding. It's addressing what we pay for with, you know, food stamps. There's so many areas that we have policy levers.

• 10:16Tucker Carlson?

  So before we get into that, let's just define a couple of terms. So when you say ultra-processed foods, can you be precise?

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. So the NOVA classification, and there's many different classifications for different kinds of food processing. And there's pros and cons with each one. So there's no perfect system. But the NOVA classification was developed by scientists in Brazil. It's now their standard of care for their food programs and dietary guidelines. So, you know, non-processed food is a tomato, an egg, an apple, you know, an almond, you know what that is, right? But if you make almond butter, well, that's a little bit of minimally processed food. If you make a can of tomatoes, that's minimally processed. There's another level of, you know, processing that you use in cooking. It's a little more. Sort of processing of things, but it's not, it's not made from anything other than real food ingredients. The fourth classification is ultra-processed. And this is essentially where they take commodity crops, which are funded with our federal dollars,

• 11:04Speaker 02

  supporting farmers who are losing the game.

• 11:07Tucker Carlson?

  And that's corn, soybeans.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  Corn, soybean and wheat. And by the way, the farmers are suffering so bad. You know, Tucker, there's, there's a 350% higher rate of suicide in farmers than there are in the rest of the population. There's $435 billion of farmer debt that they carry to support us. And those, and they're stuck between the crop insurance that the government's paying, the banks, which are providing them, you know, the loans and the agricultural and seed companies that are providing the fertilizer, the seeds and the chemicals that they're spraying on the farm. And they can't, they can't get out of that toxic loop. And they're, they're struggling, those rural communities are struggling so bad. And that can be fixed. And so, um, when you look at, wait, shit, I lost my train of thought.

• 11:48Tucker Carlson?

  Ultra-processed foods.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  So, so.

• 11:49Tucker Carlson?

  So processed is any food that's been changed in its composition.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  So what happens, what happens is they're growing these commodity crops that the government's basically supporting them funding of wheat, corn and soy. But you're not eating wheat berries or whole grain. You're not eating true whole soybeans. You're not eating just corn on the cob. These are deconstructed in factories and science, basically science labs into their molecular components are torn apart and rebuilt into these chemically extruded food-like substances of all colors, sizes and shapes that are not by definition food. If you look up the Webster's dictionary definition of food, it's not actually technically food. And so what most Americans are eating is stuff that actually is harmful, that's causing disease and killing people. It's, it's literally, think about it, the equivalent of two holocausts a year are caused by the food we're eating, according to the global burden of disease study.

• 12:37Tucker Carlson?

  So how do you know it when you see it? You said 70% of our grocery store offerings are ultra-processed food.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  You know, the labeling, food labeling is a big issue and is one of our key initiatives. I think if we, if we move forward in this administration, it has to be addressed. People need informed consent, I mean, being empowered with the right information, they need to know what they're eating, whether it's good or bad for them. And now you need to be a PhD scientist to read nutrition label or read the ingredients and know what it means.

• 12:59Tucker Carlson?

  Right. So I avoid the Nilla wave. That's I guess.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  If you look at the, if you look at the ingredient list, it should be stuff you know, it should say tomatoes or salt or.

• 13:07Tucker Carlson?

  So that's the measurement?

• 13:08Speaker 02

  If you see stuff like butylated hydroxytoluene, probably not something you want to be eating. And many of these chemicals that we use in America are outlawed in other countries, in Europe, in Singapore, and in many other countries, these compounds that have been validated to show that how harmful they are to human beings have been removed from the marketplace and we should follow those standards here. So labeling is really key and we're going to work on that. But right now, if you're, if you're just trying to figure it out, look at the ingredient list. If there's stuff there that you wouldn't have on your kitchen counter or you wouldn't have in your pantry, don't eat it. If it says maltodextrin, where's your maltodextrin jar in your spice jar? Where's your butylated hydroxytoluene you sprinkle out on your salad? No.

• 13:48Tucker Carlson?

  So if you don't understand it, don't eat it.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, things can have a long list of ingredients. If you eat Indian foods, they have lots of spices, that's fine, it's real food. But if it's, if it's something that is, is in Latin that you don't understand, can't pronounce, or it has a health claim on the label, it's probably not good for you. I mean, like Lay's potato chips now says they're gluten free. I mean, that's ridiculous, right? Oh, it's gluten free, it's healthy. No, it's not, you know.

• 14:10Tucker Carlson?

  Gluten free because there's no weed in it.

• 14:12Speaker 02

  Of course, but it's Coca Cola is gluten free. So like my, my rule is if it has a health claim on the label, don't eat it.

• 14:18Tucker Carlson?

  If there's a health claim.

• 14:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, but if it's low fat, high fiber, low cholesterol, you know, you know, if it's no sugar, if it's, you know, gluten free, it's hiding something. They're hiding something, right? It's just food. I mean, you know, tomato doesn't say gluten free on it, right? It's just a tomato.

• 14:36Tucker Carlson?

  So that, I mean, that limits your options.

• 14:38Speaker 02

  Well, you know what?

• 14:39Tucker Carlson?

  You're gonna lose weight just from scarcity at that.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  You know what? It's amazing. I had this view that, that it was people's fault they were fat. And, and I went down as part of this movie called Fed Up that I did with Katie Couric and Laurie David about 10 years ago. We went to South Carolina and I went to easily South Carolina, one of the, one of the poorest areas in America, one of the worst food deserts in America. There's something called the Retail Environment Food Index. How many fast food and junk food and bodegas there are compared to grocery stores? They're like 10 to one. And, and this family of five lived in a trailer. They, they were on disability and food stamps and they wanted to sort of get healthy. And I asked them, why do you want to get healthy? Because I'm like, why do you want to be in this movie? They said, well, my dad's 42. He has type 2 diabetes from the food he ate. He has kidney failure. He's on dialysis.

• 15:25Speaker 02

  He's going to die unless he loses 40 pounds and we can't convince him to lose 40 pounds. We don't know what to do. The mother was well over 150 pounds of her weight. The son was, you know, 16 years old, almost diabetic, 50% body fat. It should be 10 to 20%. I went, I said, rather than giving them a lecture about what to do and what to eat. I said, let's go to your, let's go to your house. Let's, let's go shopping, get some simple foods that are inexpensive, that are whole foods, that are healthy to eat. So we made turkey chili. This was from Good Food on a Tight Budget, a guide from the Environmental Working Group. I said, here's turkey chili. Here's how to roast some sweet potatoes. Here's how to fry asparagus. Here's how to make a salad from not just iceberg lettuce, but some real lettuce. Here's olive oil and vinegar dressing.

• 16:04Tucker Carlson?

  Iceberg is not real lettuce?

• 16:05Speaker 02

  No, no, it's pretty, pretty, pretty much nutritionally vapid food.

• 16:09Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, really?

• 16:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I mean, it's fine if you want to eat it, but it's not, it's not fully dense with, with phytochemicals and nutrients, you know? And so, so we basically showed them, and I went through their cupboards, everything in their cupboard. They had low fat this and cool what they thought was healthy because it said no trans fats, but the FDA with the inclusion with the food industry allowed a food to say no trans fats and have less than half a gram per serving. So basically they're just duping the American public and, and we need clear transparency and information. So they didn't know what they were eating and everything was frozen or packaged or canned or boxed. They never cooked anything. They didn't have cutting boards. They didn't have knives. They never cooked anything in their kitchen. And so we made turkey chili. We made this whole meal. We sat down and ate it and it was so delicious. And the son goes, Dr. Hyman, do you like this to your family? Every night I'm thinking, yeah, I do.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  And it wasn't hard. It wasn't difficult. It didn't take too much time. And I said, listen, you know, I don't know if you can do this, but here, here's this guide on how to eat well for less. Here's, here's my cookbook on, on how to actually eat healthy and try it. And I, on the plane, I sent them cutting boards and knives because they didn't, they didn't have anything to cut. I mean, we're cutting like with a butter knife, trying to cut sweet potatoes. It was ridiculous, hard, hard sweet potatoes.

• 17:18Tucker Carlson?

  They'd know you're tonsils in there.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  Nothing, not, not for cooking, right? And so the first week, the mother texted me back, she said, Mark, we lost 18 pounds. I'm like, amazing. And a year they lost over 200 pounds as a family. The father lost 45, got a new kidney. The mother lost 100 plus pounds. The son lost 50, but he went to work at Bojangles. And gained it back. He said it was like putting an alcoholic to work in a bar. And, and then, and then he gained all the weight back and then, and then he called me a few years later. He said, Mark, can you help me? I was like, yeah, I was a Dr. Hyman, but you know, yeah. I said, yeah. And so I coached him and got him and he lost 132 pounds. And he's the first kid in his family to go to college. He wrote me a letter. He said, Mark, can you, can you, can you write me a letter of recommendation for medical school? And now he's a doctor. So, and he now he lost all that weight. So, so what that taught me was that it's really about

• 18:03Speaker 02

  about education, about information, about skills. You know, I don't know if you know this story, but, but in

• 18:09Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, but hold on, hold on. There's, yes, but you can know the right path and not take it. There's a compulsion attached to certain kinds of food.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. And this is well documented, Tucker.

• 18:20Tucker Carlson?

  It is well documented.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  Well documented. And the studies are published. There was a large study published reviewing all the literature on food addiction. And there's something called the Yale Food Addiction Scale, which is questions you can, you can look it up online. You just ask, answer the questions and it tells you if you're a food addict. Just so that you can do a questionnaire to tell if you're an alcoholic. It's 14% of the adult population are alcoholics. 14% of people are food addicted and 12% of children are food addicted. By, by the scientific definition of food addiction. Not, not just, oh yeah, this is addictive, but actually biologically addictive. Measuring, measuring the, the, the things you need to measure to determine addiction. And so if that's true, you know, you, you say compulsion, but it's really a hijack of our biochemistry. So the food industry has designed foods to hijack our biology.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  There's a book written by Michael Moss called Salt, Sugar and Fat, where he interviewed 300 food industry executives and whistleblowers and scientists. And basically they said, look, we, we have taste institutes where we hire craving experts. These are on their own terms to create the bliss point of food, which is the maximum lighting up of your brain. And, and then we go for targeting marketing to heavy users. So they're not going to get me to drink a can of Coke, but they're going to get someone who's already having Coke to try to drink a two liter bottle. Right. And they know how to do that. And so, so the, the, the effects of these foods are so harmful on us. And they, they know, they know what they're doing and they, they actually designed them to be this way. I mean, the tobacco companies bought a lot of the food companies back in the seventies, RJ and

• 19:45Speaker 02

  Nabisco, Phil Morris Craft, and they built this whole industry of ultra-processed food. There's now 600,000 ultra-processed food products. Eighty percent of them are full of sugar. And the things that are driving most of the things that are wrong with America. If you look at food, it's the nexus for everything. One, obviously chronic disease, all the things we mentioned, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, Alzheimer's, autoimmune diseases, I mean, just digestive disease, all the things. Depression, mental health now is linked to ultra-processed food. There's really well documented science on this, that these foods cause depression, anxiety. So we have all these foods that are causing disease. Then we have the economic burden, which we talked about, half, almost $5 trillion.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  We have the effect on national security because 77% of military recruits are rejected because they're unfit to fight. So we have a national security crisis and 72% more evacuations were for obesity compared to war injuries from Iraq and Afghanistan. Think about that. In a war, more soldiers were evacuated because of obesity than because of war injuries. Academic performance, we're 30th something in the world in math and reading. We are, where kids are suffering, our kids are on ADD medications.

• 20:56Tucker Carlson?

  So food makes you dumber, certain kinds of food?

• 20:58Speaker 02

  100% makes you cognitively impaired, behavioral issues. I mean, there was one study, Tucker, where they took

• 21:03Tucker Carlson?

  That is true.

• 21:04Speaker 02

  Kids in juvenile detention centers and they gave them healthy food, swapped it out for the junk food. 97% reduction in behavioral issues and violence, 75% reduction in restraints and 100% reduction in suicides, which is the third leading cause of death in teenage boys. This is documented science. This is not something I'm making up. And it's, I wrote in my book, Food Fix, which is really how to save our health, our economy, our communities and our planet one bite at a time. And it talks about the nexus of all these issues. And then we have the effect on our soil. We've lost so much soil, carbon. Soil has to be healthy to grow a healthy plant and a healthy plant is what creates healthy humans. And the nutrients in plants have gone down by 50%. So even if you're eating your broccoli, it's less nutritious than it was 50 years ago.

• 21:47Tucker Carlson?

  She gotta eat twice as much.

• 21:48Speaker 02

  That's right, maybe. Yeah, you'd do that.

• 21:51Tucker Carlson?

  I'm out.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  So.

• 21:52Tucker Carlson?

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• 22:37Tucker Carlson?

  Every guest has loved them. We eat them at home and at work. So we can recommend this with total heartfelt sincerity. And this year, Meriwether Farms makes it very easy for you to send their meat as a gift. They've got all kinds of gift boxes. Their famous steaks, including Wagyu beef, roast, burgers, hot dogs, beef sticks, snacks, everything you could possibly want, you can send to your loved ones from Meriwether Farms. The address, meriwetherfarms.com/tucker. Use the promo code TUCKERCHRISTMAS for a discount this year. We eat it, we recommend it. Meriwether, it's M E R I W E T H E R farms.com/tucker. Promo code Tucker Christmas at checkout.

• 23:20Tucker Carlson?

  Highly sincerely recommended.

• 23:23Speaker 03

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• 24:04Speaker 03

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• 25:00Speaker 04

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• 25:29Speaker 02

  And then, you know, we have also the effect on biodiversity because of all the chemicals we're using. We have 75% less pollinators. No pollinators, you know, it's hard to have agriculture. We have 50% loss in bird species from what we were growing food. We have destruction of our waterways because we use fertilizer that runs off into the rivers and lakes and streams and causes beautification, which basically grows algae because of the extra fertilizer, and then sucks all the oxygen out of the water and all the fish die. There's dead zones the size of New Jersey in the Gulf of Mexico. There's 400 around the planet that feed half a billion people. So this is all from the fertilizers, which uses actually 2% of the world's global energy to make fertilizer. But you don't need to do that if you use regenerative agriculture, which is what actually one of the things that I think this new industry should focus on, which is how do you fix the farming?

• 26:14Speaker 02

  Because you've got to start at the field to fix food. And, you know, I think Wendell Berry said it beautifully. He's a poet and a farmer. Amazing man. Amazing man. He said, "We have a health system that pays no attention to food and a food system that pays no attention to health." We need to fix that.

• 26:28Tucker Carlson?

  So you've referred a couple of times to... The connection between what we eat and cancer rates, can you be a lot more

• 26:35Speaker 02

  Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. So the data is really clear.

• 26:38Tucker Carlson?

  You want to scare people into eating better. Cancer is a good way to do it.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Well, you know, cancer is on the rise and, and, and, you know, we've gotten

• 26:44Tucker Carlson?

  Can't get over that. I thought we were going to defeat it with our war on cancer.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, that was Nixon. He wanted to, but the problem is we're, we're barking up the wrong tree. If you look, there's, there's, there's a real clear data on, on two drivers of cancer. One is food and particularly sugar and starch. And two, and two is environmental toxins, carcinogens, which are ubiquitous. We were exposed to toxins everywhere and we can reduce those. But the, the food part is really interesting because when you look at the growth of cancer cells, they feed on sugar. There's a whole metabolic theory of cancer where if you use a ketogenic diet, and this is work being done in Columbia and by Sid Mukherjee and others, ketogenic diets as a treatment for cancer to actually shut down the cancer cells. Cause they can only feed on sugar. We are like a hybrid engine.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  We can go electric or, or we can go gas. We can go carbs. We can go fat. Cancer only goes sugar. So you start the sugar and you, you kill the cancer. So the amount of sugar and flour eating is about 152 pounds of sugar per person per year and 133 pounds of flour. That's a lot. That's almost three quarters of a pound a day of sugar and flour for every American. And what that does is it fuels the cancer cells. And so pancreatic cancer, colon cancer, breast cancer, uterine cancer, prostate cancer, even some lung cancers, and the data is documented, go up with insulin resistance, go up with obesity and go up with diabetes and metabolic dysfunction. 93% of Americans, Tucker, are metabolically broken. This is, this is extraordinary from the American Journal of Cardiology.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  And what this means is that we're somewhere on the degree of what I call diabetes. Diabetes is prediabetes to type 2 diabetes. And we've, we've, we've cut off at prediabetes, but that's, you know, one in two Americans has prediabetes or type 2 diabetes. That's bad enough. 38% of teenage boys, I mean, when I graduated medical school, there was no type 2 diabetes. There was no type 1 diabetes. It was juvenile diabetes, which is an autoimmune disease or adult onset diabetes, which is a foodborne disease. And so now we've changed the names to protect the guilty. And, and so now we see kids.

• 28:46Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 28:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. Three.

• 28:48Tucker Carlson?

  The names were changed to mask the cause of type two.

• 28:51Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, I mean, because kids are getting it. So how do we call juvenile diabetes? If kids are getting type two diabetes as young as two or three years old? It's not their fault. They're being fed, you know, soda and I once was working in an urgent care in California in an underserved community and this woman comes in with back pain. She's got a baby in her baby carriage. And he's drinking this brown liquid. And I'm like, what is it? Seven months old? I'm like, what is that? It's Coca-Cola. I'm like, why are you giving your baby Coca-Cola? She's like, he likes it. I mean, this is what's happening. And so we're turning our, our, our whole society into this metabolically broken society. And, and this is the driver of all the diseases we're seeing. Cancer, heart disease, diabetes, dementia. They're calling Alzheimer's type three diabetes because of how it's connected to sugar and insulin resistance.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  You know, I co-founded a company called Function Health, which allows people to get insights into their own biology. And what we're finding Tucker is that, is that 96% of the people we're testing have metabolic dysfunction.

• 29:43Tucker Carlson?

  Ninety six?

• 29:44Speaker 02

  Ninety six, yeah.

• 29:45Tucker Carlson?

  So how do you get insight into your own biology? What is that?

• 29:47Speaker 02

  So basically, you know, healthcare system is broken and I believe that, you know, I could work for another 50 years and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe with this new administration, we'll leapfrog and things will change, which I'm very hopeful for. But we, I created a company with a number of other co-founders called Function Health that allows you easy access to your own blood test. It is simple, five minutes to sign up, 15 minutes to go into a Quest lab to get your labs drawn. You get over 110 biomarkers or lab tests that gives you insight into everything that's going on in your body that you're not being checked for at your regular doctor's office. Get five times more diagnostics. You look at your hormones, your metabolic health, your cardiovascular health, your nutritional health. I mean, your immune health. We've seen, we've seen 46% of Americans have some degree of autoimmunity, which is crazy.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  It's one of the biggest cost drivers, whether it's thyroid autoimmunity or other autoimmunity or pre-autoimmunity. We're seeing 67% have nutritional deficiencies and these are the lab reference ranges that are Quest. These are not, these are not what I would think at optimal. So vitamin D, for example, should be over 50. Forty-five, fifty. The reference range is thirty, but still, we've got a huge amount of people deficient at that level. And when you're under thirty, your risk of getting sick and dying of COVID is seventy percent higher. If your vitamin D is over fifty, your risk of death is zero compared to looking at these.

• 31:01Tucker Carlson?

  A dumb question.

• 31:02Speaker 02

  No dumb question.

• 31:03Tucker Carlson?

  So, a basic question. So, you get blood, your company does this, maybe others do it, but you get a blood test.

• 31:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:10Tucker Carlson?

  You get all these markers, all these measurements of what's in your blood. How do you know what they mean?

• 31:15Speaker 02

  Well, that's a great question. So, we really, you know, used the technology to help us build a database of the most up-to-date scientific information informed by all the scientific literature. And you have a clear description of what every biomarker means. So, if your insulin, or blood sugar, or your cholesterol particles are abnormal, or you have positive autoimmune antibodies, we tell you what it means, why it happens, what the root causes are, not necessarily just what traditional medicine thinks, but what the new science thinks around root causes. We give you all the self-care things you can do yourself to optimize your health. So, you can upgrade your biology with insights from scientific literature, from knowledge experts. We've brought in the top scientists and doctors to help inform the content. So, it's like having a thousand doctors in your pocket. Remember, the iPod was a thousand songs in your pocket?

• 32:00Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  This is a thousand doctors in your pocket. And it gives you the ability to do self-care. And like I said, diabetes isn't cured in the doctor's office. It's cured in the kitchen. And that's really what most chronic diseases can be fixed. And I see this over and over after doing it for thirty years. I've written almost twenty books. And what I see is when people follow the guidance without having to go to the healthcare system, they can correct these things, and they can fix these things.

• 32:23Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 32:23Speaker 02

  Yes. It's quite amazing, Tucker.

• 32:26Tucker Carlson?

  And by these things, diabetes?

• 32:27Speaker 02

  Diabetes reversible, heart disease reversible, Alzheimer's. Now, Richard Isakson has done amazing work showing how we can reverse Alzheimer's using aggressive lifestyle interventions.

• 32:37Tucker Carlson?

  But, what?

• 32:38Speaker 02

  Yes. This is incredible data.

• 32:41Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I just want to speak up as a non-doctor. We know for a fact that Alzheimer's is incurable. Nothing can make it better.

• 32:46Speaker 02

  Well, that's actually not true.

• 32:47Tucker Carlson?

  I know, but I've been told that a lot.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course, of course. Because, you know, we've spent, this is a great example. We've spent About $2 billion in over 400 studies trying to find drugs for Alzheimer's and nothing has worked. The drugs that are approved are extremely expensive, have marginal benefit, lot of side effects, and cost a huge amount of money, and may delay your entry into nursing home by two or three months. That's a win. That's not very good. Now, there's a couple of trials that have been done. The Finger Trial out in Europe and the Pointer Trial, which is emerging, that showed aggressive lifestyle intervention, diet, exercise, managing stress, sleep, optimizing all your risk factors, was able to not just slow the progression of Alzheimer's and dementia, but to reverse it. This is published data. This is not my opinion. Richard Isaacson also has published this data.

• 33:31Tucker Carlson?

  And so by-

• 33:33Speaker 02

  And now using biomarkers, and we can actually test with function, soon we'll be adding biomarkers for Alzheimer's. So now there's blood tests for Alzheimer's. So you don't have to wait until you forget your keys. And also for cancer, you're asking about cancer, we do a multi-cancer-

• 33:46Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, at what age is Alzheimer's detectable in the blood?

• 33:48Speaker 02

  That's a great question. So on imaging, which is very expensive and difficult and-

• 33:53Tucker Carlson?

  Brain imaging?

• 33:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, brain imaging. You can see the changes up to 30 years before you got Alzheimer's as a symptom. With blood tests, it's not as far as that. We're still figuring out, you know, what those times are. But you can see start, these proteins start to develop in the blood that indicate there's something happening, and you can then intervene early. And the thing about Alzheimer's is that if you intervene early, you can have an incredible benefit to help slow the progression and delay it and actually reverse it. And I've seen this in my patients. I wrote a book about this, The Ultra Mind Solution, 15 years ago. Dale Bredesen's written a book called The End of Alzheimer's, and documenting that we have to get through causes.

• 34:28Tucker Carlson?

  Is NIH on this?

• 34:29Speaker 02

  No, they're not on it. And this is what drives me crazy.

• 34:32Tucker Carlson?

  I don't understand.

• 34:32Speaker 02

  So I'm saying, we spent so much money, we've gotten really no results.

• 34:36Tucker Carlson?

  Because I don't think you're a crackpot, but if, I mean, here you are, sitting on camera, saying, no, Alzheimer's is reversible.

• 34:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:42Tucker Carlson?

  Like that, talk about a headline. Why isn't that in the New York Times?

• 34:45Speaker 02

  Good frickin' question.

• 34:46Tucker Carlson?

  No, I'm serious, though.

• 34:47Speaker 02

  Good frickin' question.

• 34:48Tucker Carlson?

  So either you're crazy or they're dishonest.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think, I think it's, it's, it's a medical paradigm shift. You know, the thing is, most, most doctors are in a world, this flat world. They don't understand that the world is round. We've shifted a paradigm scientifically from a disease-based diagnostic system to understanding the body as an integrated ecosystem. And so the work of people like Lee Roy Hood from the Institute for Systems Biology, his Phenom Project, is mapping out how our understanding of disease is completely wrong. It's based on labeling people according to symptoms and where it is in their body, rather than on mechanisms and causes. So I wrote a book called Young Forever, which is about longevity. We talked about it, I think, last time I was on your show.

• 35:32Speaker 02

  And, and in the book, I talk about the scientists who come up with this model of what are the root causes of aging? Because we think aging is just, it's going to happen, inevitable. We're going to get sick, we're going to get older, we're going to get frail, we're going to get weak. And they've identified the underlying biology behind that. So if we cured heart disease and cancer from the face of the planet, we might extend life five to seven years. You can get the same thing with meaning and purpose for playing tennis. But if you actually dealt with the hallmarks of aging, the things that really go wrong, inflammation, metachinolentia, or nutrition, you, you can act, and your microbiome, all the things that underlie disease, you could extend life by 30 or 40 years, which means living to 120, which is a crazy notion, right? So we now understand biology in a very different way than we did before,

• 36:15Speaker 02

  and it hasn't translated into the clinic. And so why, why I co-founded Function Health with my co-founders was to help accelerate this gap, to kind of leapfrog over this ossified system. But we need to change-

• 36:26Tucker Carlson?

  But it's just kind of crazy what you're saying. If you take three steps back, and it's like, the whole point of medicine, I presumed, was to extend and improve life?

• 36:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 36:34Tucker Carlson?

  Right? To keep you from dying, make you healthier, make you happier. And so if there is science that shows that that's possible, and everyone's ignoring it, then, I'm trying not to use profanity, but like, what is that?

• 36:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, it's a good question, because we have a, we have a illness, medical, industrial, food, ag complex that profits off of people being sick.

• 36:55Tucker Carlson?

  But so you write a book saying, or someone else, several doctors write books saying, "I can show that Alzheimer's is reversible." And what is every other doctor in America, they just don't read the book, they haven't heard of it, like what?

• 37:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, they just, it's like.

• 37:08Tucker Carlson?

  That's kind of a provocative thesis.

• 37:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:10Tucker Carlson?

  Cause I think of Alzheimer's as like AIDS in 1986, like it's the worst thing.

• 37:13Speaker 02

  Oh, it's big.

• 37:14Tucker Carlson?

  And there's nothing you can do about it.

• 37:15Speaker 02

  No, it's, it's.

• 37:16Tucker Carlson?

  Do you remember that with AIDS?

• 37:16Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. It's scary as hell.

• 37:18Tucker Carlson?

  And the scariest, yeah.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  And, and, and I can tell you that is, is, is, this is not my opinion. I'm, you know, I was at Cleveland Clinic, I worked with Marvin Sabah when he was there. He was the head of the dementia research center. He understood this. He understood these mechanisms, these biology, the sciences there. But there's no funding for it because what are we talking about Tucker? We're talking about providing lifestyle interventions that they're intensive, that people need support, they need to change their diet, they need to exercise, they need to optimize their sleep, they need to manage stress, they need to take the right nutritional supplements, they need to modify their risk factors aggressively. This requires a very different reimbursement system. We don't have evidence-based medicine, Tucker. We have reimbursement-based medicine. Doctors do what they get paid to do, not what the right thing is. The right treatment for diabetes is not more drugs or Ozempic.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  The right treatment is diet, you know?

• 38:05Tucker Carlson?

  So it sounds like doctors aren't really in control.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  I mean, they're, they're doing the best they can, you know?

• 38:10Tucker Carlson?

  But they're responding to forces bigger than themselves.

• 38:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. They, they, you know, the, we, medical education's a great example, like, you know, doctors graduating, you know, in the 50s or 40s, we're dealing with infectious disease and acute care medicine, and we have the best acute care medicine system in the world, bar none. If you're, if you have an acute infection, if you have sepsis, if you need ICU.

• 38:28Tucker Carlson?

  You're in a car crash.

• 38:29Speaker 02

  You're in a car crash, damn right, I'm going to the hospital. But that system doesn't work for chronic illness, and that's what we're facing now. And so the 80% of the conditions that doctors are seeing are chronic diseases for which drugs are not the right therapy most of the time. They can be helpful as adjuncts, but the fundamental drivers of our chronic disease epidemic is the food we're eating and, and also environmental toxins that are adding to that. And when you add those two things together, it explains most of the chronic disease epidemic.

• 38:56Tucker Carlson?

  It's just, I mean, a lot of smart people you included, you're definitely one of the earliest, but are saying varieties of what you're saying now. So, I mean, it was, you know, 30 years ago or so that the Congress hauled the heads of the tobacco companies, Reynolds and Philip Morris and Laurel Lard, and all, you humiliated them on camera and like, you knew you were hurting people, you did it anyway.

• 39:16Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 39:17Tucker Carlson?

  Is that gonna happen with Nabisco anytime soon?

• 39:19Speaker 02

  I mean, there are, there are class action lawsuits that are being now, uh, A raise around these companies to look at holding them accountable for what they're doing and they know and there's been FOIA requests and information requests that I actually wrote about in my book that show their nefarious behavior, for example, targeting minorities and targeting poor income, lower income people to focus on buying more junk food.

• 39:42Tucker Carlson?

  Well, the food stamp program is a perfect example of that.

• 39:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's kind of crazy, Tucker, when you think about it, you know, when the American taxpayer is paying through the nose for everything all the way along, the companies are privatizing profits and we're socializing the costs. So, so we basically fund the growth of commodity crops with $20 billion of subsidies in crop insurance for corn, wheat and soy to the farmers, which puts them in a really tight bond because they can't change their system without support to changing to a more regenerative system that they're going to make more money, they're going to grow better food, they're going to have, you know, better resuscitation of their real economies, you know, and not completely commit suicide at the rate they're doing. We pay for that and then we pay for those foods for our SNAP programs. So we have about $125 billion in SNAP, which is our food stamp program and supplemental nutrition assistance, but there's no N in there.

• 40:30Speaker 02

  There's just food security, which means calories. So they, when you, when you get your EBT benefits in the beginning of the month, these food companies know to advertise in the bodega. So they'll get your two liter bottle of Coke with your EBT and they put these giant ads in there and they know exactly when they're getting their cards. So we, we basically fund.

• 40:47Tucker Carlson?

  You can buy Coca-Cola.

• 40:48Speaker 02

  75% of the food bought on SNAP is, is junk food. 10% is soda. So you think about $12 billion in soda, the Americans paying.

• 40:56Tucker Carlson?

  Why would soda be federal? Why would, if we're giving out nutritional assistance to the poor, why would we pay for soda?

• 41:04Speaker 02

  What an obvious question, Tucker. Yeah.

• 41:06Tucker Carlson?

  But that's just crazy.

• 41:08Speaker 02

  It's crazy. It's crazy and we know.

• 41:10Tucker Carlson?

  If you wanted to hurt the poor, you would do that.

• 41:11Speaker 02

  I mean, we know beyond a doubt and, you know, we can talk about ultra-processed food, there's arguments this and that way and this way, but the food industry will say, oh, it's, we're going to take away people's choice, we're going to take away convenience, we're going to take away affordability, we're going to make food less safe, but we don't know ultra-processed food. These are their talking points. It's not all, it's all about calories, it's not moderation, so you can have, you know, soda as part of your diet as long as you don't exceed your calories. It's basically your fault. That you're fat, so you fix it. That's the messaging, right? It's the messaging from every food industry, sort of message from every professional association, message from the medical sort of.

• 41:44Tucker Carlson?

  But that doesn't mean that we have to pay for it. Why are we paying for it?

• 41:46Speaker 02

  Well, that's it. So we pay, we pay for probably 30 billion or more servings of soda for the poor every year. And then we pay for.

• 41:54Tucker Carlson?

  Taxpayers are sending all this money to Coca-Cola.

• 41:56Speaker 02

  The biggest profit center in America for Coca-Cola is 20% of their profits is SNAP, food stamps. Walmart gets, I don't know, something like, you know, 40 billion of that food stamp bill. I mean, it's crazy. And, and we pay, we pay on the other.

• 42:13Tucker Carlson?

  Are those numbers real?

• 42:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I can get you the, I can get you the Walmart numbers, but yeah, it was, it's, it's really high. And then we, and then we, we have.

• 42:21Tucker Carlson?

  That's shocking.

• 42:21Speaker 02

  To pay for Medicare and Medicaid on the back end when people get sick from those foods. And then we pay all the other.

• 42:28Tucker Carlson?

  You pay for the Coca-Cola and the Ozempic.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, listen, the price we paid to check.

• 42:31Tucker Carlson?

  The Pop-Tarts and the insulin.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  I mean, that's right. The pop, the, the price you pay to checkout counter is not the true cost of food. The true cost of food, the Rockefeller Foundation report is for every dollar you spend on food, there's three dollars in collateral damage.

• 42:44Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  To health.

• 42:45Tucker Carlson?

  Pay for the crack and the rehab.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. It's totally nuts.

• 42:49Tucker Carlson?

  Pay for the hookers and the divorce.

• 42:50Speaker 02

  Fix this, you know?

• 42:51Tucker Carlson?

  It's so nuts.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  We could fix this. And, you know, Andy Harris, you know, who's a, who's a congressman, wanted to do a simple pilot study. Just a pilot study to see what would happen if we eliminated soda from food stamp benefits in a couple of locations. Just to, just to monitor the impact on the health of those people. And, and he couldn't get it through as a, as a pilot, not to change the entire USC policy, just as a pilot study. So imagine how anti-science this is. This is truly anti-science.

• 43:19Tucker Carlson?

  It's just, I really believe in naming and shaming. It works.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:23Tucker Carlson?

  Just call people out.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:24Tucker Carlson?

  You know, bring some sunlight in and let them defend it.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 43:27Tucker Carlson?

  So I'd love to know who's behind that. And by the way, I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to buy Coca-Cola. Saying I don't want to pay for it.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:33Tucker Carlson?

  You know, that's fair, isn't it?

• 43:34Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. I mean, we, the government of the United States should not be funding the, the chronic disease epidemic, which they currently are. They are, they are, they're either by. Policies that were put in, you know, that were innocent or by

• 43:49Tucker Carlson?

  But it's so perfect. It's like when I learned that we were funding ISIS in Syria, I was like, that's kind of perfect. Actually, like both sides are taking American money.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it's kind of crazy, but we have the opportunity to change that. For example, WIC, which is Women, Infants and Children's Food Program, is based on only allowing people to buy food that's going to be healthy for the mother and child. Why not apply that to WIC? You know, why not school standards being changed so that actually kids can have healthy food?

• 44:17Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I know that that I think WIC is like the center of profit for the formula makers, isn't it?

• 44:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, that's true. That's another problem. But yeah, for example, in Chile, they outlawed formula marketing for kids. They outlawed that advertising to kids. They got rid of all the junk food in schools. They put it front and back labeling.

• 44:32Tucker Carlson?

  Why would the federal taxpayers, me included, you included, be paying for baby formula? Why would we be encouraging formula over breast milk?

• 44:39Speaker 02

  Well, it's a huge industry. I mean, it's all in it's really it's, you know, there's a group from the WHO has has put together some initial papers and it's coming out with a report next year about the commercial determinants of health, which is how multinational and transnational corporations in food and ag and alcohol, tobacco are essentially driving our chronic epidemic and they're privatizing the profits, subverting public health and socializing the costs. And the governments are the ones who are struggling with this. And so, so there are many other countries.

• 45:07Tucker Carlson?

  The governments are paying for it.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  Their governments are paying for it. And you look at the healthiest countries, they're the ones like Japan and Singapore and Spain, Italy, they actually have policies that are protecting their citizens, that are educating them about food, that are not allowing the same.

• 45:19Tucker Carlson?

  How about just don't pay for it? I mean, let's, we could start there. So Christmas is coming and winter is coming. And that's the perfect combination for Cozy Earth. Cozy Earth is a company that makes exactly what it sounds like, products that are close to the earth and that are quite cozy. And you should consider them this Christmas. They have the best sheets available. They're made out of bamboo, believe it or not. And it's hard to believe how great they are until you try them. We have, and they are great. They're a great fit for everybody in your shopping list. What sets them apart? Well, their fabrics are temperature regulating. That means they keep you cool and cozy or warm and cozy, depending on the temperature. And they have a 10 year warranty.

• 46:03Tucker Carlson?

  So if anything goes wrong with your sheets, you get free ones. Go to cozyearth.com/tucker, use our promo code TUCKER for up to 40% off. And if they ask, tell you, tell them the Tucker Carlson Show sent you. Everyone here uses those sheets and love them.

• 46:21Speaker 00

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• 46:53Speaker 05

  It's me, the

• 46:56Speaker 05

  We don't need the jingle twice.

• 46:59Speaker 05

  Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights and rental cars.

• 47:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app. Fine. No one deals more deals than

• 47:17Speaker 05

  Please stop. Touche. Priceline.

• 47:35Tucker Carlson?

  And it does raise like some pretty interesting questions. The smartest thing I've heard this year, I think it's a common phrase now, is that the point of the system is its outcome. So if you're wondering about motive, look at what the system produces and that describes the motive.

• 47:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:50Tucker Carlson?

  Right? We don't have to guess. Like

• 47:53Tucker Carlson?

  So, um, if governments are making their citizens more unhealthy.

• 47:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:58Tucker Carlson?

  I, I think we can assume that they want that outcome.

• 48:01Speaker 02

  No, they don't. They don't. They, they, they, this has been the frog in boiling water slowly that's hit them so fast. Cause oh, yeah, bring, bring all these fast food companies, bring all these American companies in to help us with our food nutrition. Let's get fast food everywhere. It's kind of the, kind of the Americanization of the world, right? We basically created the worst diet on the planet and exported it to every country in the world.

• 48:21Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I've, I've known.

• 48:22Speaker 02

  And, and, and we see now even in the developing world, there's, they call it the double, they call it, um, the double burden of disease. Chronic disease and infectious disease. So they're dying of diabetes and tuberculosis. They're dying of diabetes and malaria.

• 48:33Tucker Carlson?

  I hate to say it, but I've traveled a lot of countries this year and the best food I had in any country was in a country under such severe US sanctions. That no US companies.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 48:42Tucker Carlson?

  I'm not gonna name the country, but I'm just saying.

• 48:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:45Tucker Carlson?

  I don't wanna be too controversial.

• 48:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:46Tucker Carlson?

  And it makes me sad.

• 48:47Speaker 02

  You controversial Tucker?

• 48:48Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it makes me, I mean, I'm.

• 48:50Speaker 02

  You always call it in the lines.

• 48:51Tucker Carlson?

  I think of myself as, as a truly a loyal American. I'm all in on America. I'm never leaving. But to go to a country whose food is amazing, best I've ever had in my whole life.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:01Tucker Carlson?

  And it also happens that that country has no American food of any kind, cause it's not allowed.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:06Tucker Carlson?

  Maybe there's a connection?

• 49:07Speaker 02

  Maybe there's a connection, yeah. So exactly. And so, so these, these, these countries have been unwittingly, participating in what they thought was growth in economic development, but what it's done is sickened their populations. And, and so now that a lot, a lot of these countries are, are standing up, like the UK just banned advertising of junk food. France has clear labeling on their front of package to make it really clear what you're eating. You know, Chile and South America, you go there and there's been just warning signs on the front of labels. They've done all these policies that have actually been studied and worked. So we have, we have cover in the United States. Why should we be allowing things in, in the United States that we don't, these other countries have determined are, are unsafe?

• 49:43Tucker Carlson?

  What are we paying for? Let's just stop paying for it. You know, people are into some weird self-destructive behavior. I'm not interested in rooting it out or showing up at your house, making sure you're not doing it.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  No, no, no. People should be informed.

• 49:53Tucker Carlson?

  Don't wanna pay for it. Why should I have to pay?

• 49:55Speaker 02

  People should be informed and we should be not having to pay for it. I.

• 49:57Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you know, government procurement, $166 billion the government spends on food. For military, for correctional facility, for schools, for everything. When you look at the fat belt, do you know how much that could change the food system? If we, we said, based on these set of nutritional principles, which are, I think, well-accepted in the nutritional science community of being what is food? If we just followed that and didn't pay for all the junk food and ultra-processed food, we just took that out, it would change the food system in America.

• 50:26Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  Because all the industry would change. If you take a hundred and sixty-six billion dollars out of the food economy and say, we're only buying healthy food from farmers that produce healthy food, it's going to change everything from field to fork. These are simple things that the government can do. It's easy.

• 50:39Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, because they control it. So people I know, I've known a lot of people go to prison more now than ever. Um, and they get fat in prison, a lot of them.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:47Tucker Carlson?

  Is that, I assume that's because of the food.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  Of course. I mean, in prisons, they did another study, I mentioned about the juvenile detention centers. They swapped out prisoners' food for healthy food, and they found there was a fifty-six percent reduction in violent crime in the prisons and an eighty percent reduction if they added a multivitamin. So, oh, there's so much nutritional deficiencies. In, in, in countries like Japan, they put people on a super healthy diet in prison and all their violent behavior goes down. Pretty amazing.

• 51:10Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 51:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's really interesting. Yeah, their diet's totally different. It's kind of like a macrobotic, like, very kind of, like, healthy diet that gets them completely reset. And we know, we know the mental health crisis also.

• 51:21Tucker Carlson?

  Why, why don't we do that, since it's a captive population?

• 51:24Speaker 02

  We should, we can. I mean, the problem is, the, the, the, the, this is a, a, a very, I, I don't want to sound conspiratorial, but I'm telling you, there is a, a, um, a very loose organization of, of in, industries that are working together to keep the system status quo. They don't want changes in our agricultural subsidies, they don't want changes in farming practices, they don't want changes in how we fund SNAP, they don't want changes in, uh, how we reimburse healthcare, they don't want changes in our food labeling, they don't want changes in ingredients that are in our food. This, you know, this is, this is stuff that's so entrenched, it's, it's essential for their, for their profits and their success.

• 51:58Tucker Carlson?

  But, I mean, prisons, if you think about it, have been used as, because it is captive, the population of a prison, they've been used as, you know, testing populations for syphilis and vaccines and LSD and all kinds of horrible shit. And you feel so sorry for the many who had to endure that. Why not use prisons?

• 52:16Speaker 02

  Well, I'm not sure the LSD was bad for them, but.

• 52:19Tucker Carlson?

  You know, Whitey Bulger was at Alcatraz, Whitey Bulger, you know, the head of the Winter Hill Gang in Boston, a mass murderer, and he got dosed really hard with LSD at Alcatraz in the early 60s and wound up effectively a serial killer and his brother didn't and wound up the most powerful politician in Massachusetts.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  That's incredible.

• 52:39Tucker Carlson?

  So I'm just saying, I bet, you know.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  Maybe, maybe flip them.

• 52:41Tucker Carlson?

  But anyway, here's the point, why not use prisons as a kind of federal prisons as an national test for the outcome of the diet you're suggesting?

• 52:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, you could do that. I mean, you could, I mean, there were studies that were done in mental institutions years ago, but there's ethics and so informed consent.

• 52:59Tucker Carlson?

  Really? Not feeding people Oreos is unethical? Like, what?

• 53:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, well, I think you're right, Tucker. I mean, the ethical considerations are really around informed consent in medicine.

• 53:09Tucker Carlson?

  We gave them syphilis.

• 53:10Speaker 02

  You can't, okay, it's okay to take Oreos away. Now, there's rules about that.

• 53:14Tucker Carlson?

  No, I'm just saying, like.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  But we could, we could, we could get informed consent, we could ask them.

• 53:18Tucker Carlson?

  You pay them 15 cents an hour to work? I mean, they're prisoners, they can't vote, they can't own firearms, they can't.

• 53:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, no.

• 53:23Tucker Carlson?

  See their wives, like, everything about it is horrible, why, why wouldn't you use the opportunity to improve their health?

• 53:29Speaker 02

  I 100% agree. I think we need to do that in every sector of society where the government has a hand, school lunches, the military, all our federal food programs, these are easy interventions, but, but the food industry blocks it by huge lobbying efforts in Washington, you know, in my nonprofit Food Fix campaign, which is really about educating and advocating for policy change to really improve the health of Americans, we've met with over 150 senators and congressmen, both sides of the aisle, and everybody seems to get this issue and they're not hearing about it and they're starting to hear about it because people like me are talking about it, but I'm just one guy, I have a little nonprofit, I'm not funded by industry, I don't have any, like, conflicts of interest, and I'm just trying to, you know.

• 54:06Tucker Carlson?

  What are the big lobbies? Everyone says the big food lobby, what companies is that?

• 54:10Speaker 02

  I mean, you've got the American Beverage Association, you've got, you know, all the, you know, the pharmaceutical lobby groups, you've got all the ag lobby groups, I mean, collectively, they're the biggest group of lobbyists in Washington, exceeding all the other lobbying, and, and they're very powerful and they control a lot of what happens in Washington. I detailed a lot of this in my book. Food fix where Congressman you are funded by Coca-Cola or these big company and they fund both sides. They fund everybody.

• 54:35Tucker Carlson?

  Of course they do.

• 54:36Speaker 02

  And so they're they've got a lot of it locked up and and they're they're miseducating. It's the misinformation and miseducation of our policymakers and and government officials. Because they're only hearing one side of the story. They come in with their briefing books, with their scientific papers, with their justification, with the regulations written, with the legislation written, and they live and literally give it to them. I've been in Congressman Senator's office and this is amazing, Mark. Could you write the legislation for me? I'm like, what? I don't know how to do that. I mean, I have people on my team who probably do that. But it's like, it was sort of a it was sort of a startling kind of revelation that that that people in Congress need help and they need guidance, they need direction.

• 55:14Tucker Carlson?

  And they're overwhelmed.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  And they're overwhelmed and they're good people and they want to do the right thing and they're not hearing the other side of the story. And so when you lay it out for them, they're like, I was with Senator Boozman from Arkansas. He's a great guy. And he's like, yeah, I'm seeing the changes in my rural community. I've seen what's happening on the farms. I'm seeing the the degradation of these and I'm seeing the processed food. I've seen what affects my population, you know, and and he gets it. And he wouldn't let me. I was off for 45 minutes. Usually get like a Senator pops in high five minutes in and out. But it was incredible conversation. I've seen this with Randy Fenster, who's really interested in regenerative agriculture. I've seen this, you know, on the Democratic side with people like Cory Booker and and Richard Neal and James McGovern, who are trying to advocate for food policies. So Roger Marshall

• 55:55Speaker 02

  and Cassidy, both doctors, fully in on this stuff. So there's so many allies in Congress on both sides of the aisle that are sort of sick and tired of how this thing is going and realize we can't continue to do what we're doing. And I think, Tucker, we have a historic opportunity with with Trump and Bobby Kennedy and Dr. Oz now is the head of CMS and other people. I think hopefully Casey Means will be surgery general, Senator General. I think I think we can we can have a shift in the thinking and educate America, just like we we did with smoking, and we can win.

• 56:24Tucker Carlson?

  It's just so funny that that, I mean, whatever, life is irony. Everything is irony. But the Big Mac president is ushering in. It's just crazy. Oh, no, I'm sorry, of all people.

• 56:35Speaker 02

  But it makes sense, right?

• 56:36Tucker Carlson?

  It's incredible.

• 56:37Speaker 02

  Johnson was one of the biggest bigots. He signed the Civil Rights Act.

• 56:39Tucker Carlson?

  That's fair.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  Reagan was the most staunch anti-communist. He's the one who ended the Cold War. So there's a historical fact.

• 56:44Tucker Carlson?

  That's very deep. What you're saying is deep. No, that is the way life is, actually. It's the opposite of what you expect.

• 56:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:50Tucker Carlson?

  And I've talked to Trump about it, and he means it.

• 56:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:53Tucker Carlson?

  You know, I would say Bobby Kennedy is one of the nominees he's proudest of.

• 56:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:58Tucker Carlson?

  He hasn't backed down at all. I think Bobby's gonna get confirmed. I want to ask you about the thing for which Bobby is most famous. But I don't want to say the word because YouTube will monetize this. You're not even allowed, even now.

• 57:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:11Tucker Carlson?

  YouTube, biggest company, most powerful company in the world, Google, has an AI program that will literally knock out your video if you use the V-word.

• 57:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:19Tucker Carlson?

  So let's call it the shot.

• 57:21Speaker 02

  The V-word.

• 57:21Tucker Carlson?

  If you don't mind.

• 57:22Speaker 02

  The V-word.

• 57:22Tucker Carlson?

  The V-word. Not the good V-word, the bad, the bad V-word. So Bobby Kennedy became infamous 15 or 20 years ago when he wrote a piece in Rolling Stone suggesting that, I mean, he just got exiled from America, basically, for suggesting that the shot might cause really bad outcomes, health outcomes in children.

• 57:44Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 57:46Tucker Carlson?

  I never hear anybody bring that up anymore. Have we accepted that there may be truth in that?

• 57:51Speaker 02

  Well, listen, I think, you know, we get, we get sort of religion around certain topics in medicine, and I don't understand this. You know, medicine is supposed to be about science.

• 58:00Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, that's what I thought.

• 58:02Speaker 02

  Asking questions.

• 58:03Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 58:04Speaker 02

  And to say a subject is settled and we need no more science, doesn't make any sense. Like aspirin's a great example. We thought aspirin was the greatest thing on the planet Earth, that everybody should get an aspirin to prevent a heart attack. But as we start to look at the data very carefully, we saw that, gee, no, actually, it increases the risk of certain problems like brain hemorrhage and gastrointestinal bleeding and death. And 30,000 people die every year from taking aspirin for prevention of heart attacks.

• 58:29Tucker Carlson?

  What?

• 58:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:30Tucker Carlson?

  I didn't even know that.

• 58:31Speaker 02

  Right. So, so.

• 58:32Tucker Carlson?

  But they're supposed to take a baby aspirin every day.

• 58:34Speaker 02

  Well, that's right. But it causes, it causes bleeding. It thins your blood. That's why it's good for preventing heart attacks, but also can make you have a brain hemorrhage or, you know, a gut bleed. And so now the guidelines have been revised, and it's not recommended for everybody, only certain high-risk populations. Right? And yet, we change our mind based on the data. We look at the science. We update our data. The V word is, you know, listen, I'm just gonna say it. I think vaccines are one of the greatest advances in medicine in history. They have eradicated many serious diseases. Polio, smallpox, you know. I mean, I was in Haiti during the earthquake and I was working at the General Hospital there. And there was a guy with tetanus and I'd never seen a full blown case of tetanus before. It was one of the worst things I'd ever seen.

• 59:18Tucker Carlson?

  What is it?

• 59:19Speaker 02

  I don't know. Tetanus is, you know, when you step on a rusty nail.

• 59:21Tucker Carlson?

  Right, lockjaw, they used to.

• 59:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, lockjaw, but you're like basically going to total paralysis. Like your body's in a, it's like one big giant spasm and you can't get out of it. And you like basically have to give them IVs and oxygen and hope they survive. And there's tetanus anti-toxin, but it's, it was the worst thing I've ever seen. So, so vaccines have a role. And, and the problem is, is that.

• 59:43Tucker Carlson?

  A tetanus shot is a vaccine?

• 59:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, tetanus shot's a vaccine.

• 59:45Tucker Carlson?

  I didn't know that.

• 59:46Speaker 02

  Polio is a vaccine.

• 59:47Tucker Carlson?

  Of course, well famously.

• 59:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:49Tucker Carlson?

  But a tetanus shot is a vaccine.

• 59:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a vaccine. Yeah, you're supposed to get every 10 years. Yeah. And, you know, diphtheria, there's some really good things we've done in medicine to reduce a lot of the childhood illnesses and childhood deaths.

• 1:00:01Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  Measles, this is, this is, vaccines aren't a problem. Problem is that we need to study long-term safety and efficacy of these drugs like any other drug. You know, one of the problems with medicine is that, and I think this was a huge failure during COVID, and I think Bobby was right about this. You know, we, we did not actually give the American public the benefit of doubt that they were smart enough to understand the nuances around this treatment. So they said vaccines are safe, they're effective. Well, not really, like any drug, it's sort of safe and it can be effective, right? Aspirin is effective for certain things, but also has side effects, right? And so vaccines work to prevent the mortality rates and reduce death rates and reduce the

• 1:00:46Speaker 02

  severity of infection, but it didn't prevent infection. And that was very clearly early on. And there's this concept called sterile immunity versus disease immunity. Sterile immunity is you get a measles shot when you're a kid, you never need it again. You're sterile, you're never gonna get measles. The flu vaccine, you have to get every year. Cause you basically don't get permanent immunity. You get sort of a reduction in the risk of disease. That's what the COVID vaccine was. So it reduced the risk, but it didn't prevent you getting it, didn't prevent transmission. And it also has side effects and we were pushing on young kids and now the data is really clear. It causes increased myocarditis, heart inflammation. So what we need is just good science and I think that's all Bobby's asking for. He's not anti-vaccine. He's been vaccinated. I've been vaccinated.

• 1:01:31Speaker 02

  We vaccinate our kids. I think it's propaganda that say that he's an anti-vaxxer. That's really just a way of dismissing him. But I think we have to understand that we just need to do good science and that's all he's asking for. He recently come out and said he's not taking vaccines. He's pro-vaccines. He wants good science and I think that's what we need around everything. Well, I mean, and it's whether it's Alzheimer's or there's diabetes or whether it's whatever it is, we're studying the wrong things.

• 1:01:53Tucker Carlson?

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• 1:02:36Tucker Carlson?

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• 1:03:14Tucker Carlson?

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• 1:04:42Tucker Carlson?

  Why do you think it became verboten to ask any questions about this one category of medicine?

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  That's a very good question. I don't know the answer to that.

• 1:04:51Tucker Carlson?

  It was a religious fervor that scared me. I didn't understand. I have exactly the same view that you just articulated on the subject. I don't, I'm not a zealot either way. But the zealotry was 100% on the other side and it was really scary. It ended friendships, it divided families. It's like, I've never seen anything like it. What was that?

• 1:05:07Speaker 02

  I think, I think, you know, as a public health effort, you know, I understand the public health mission, which is to sort of work on the health of the entire population. And so you're willing to kind of simplify things and put out messaging that may not be completely scientific in order to get people to do stuff, right? Which is what happened during

• 1:05:25Tucker Carlson?

  Or you lie to manipulate people?

• 1:05:27Speaker 02

  Well, that, yeah.

• 1:05:28Tucker Carlson?

  You can't do that.

• 1:05:29Speaker 02

  No, but I think, I think

• 1:05:30Tucker Carlson?

  Lying is wrong, period.

• 1:05:32Speaker 02

  We need informed consent. I mean, you listen, when you prescribe a drug as a doctor, you're supposed to say, if I give you this drug, here's the benefits and here's the risks. You know, it's, it's really clear we're supposed to do that in medicine. It's called informed consent. Yeah, and we should have informed consent so people understand, here's the benefit, here's the risk, and you can decide for yourself.

• 1:05:51Tucker Carlson?

  But why would, I mean, of course, everything became In the political politically charged year of 2020 election year became super partisan. Okay, so there's that.

• 1:05:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:00Tucker Carlson?

  But it was it was deeper than that because Trump was out there. He was pro vaccine.

• 1:06:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:04Tucker Carlson?

  And then the Biden people, of course, are pro vaccine. But the media take became like I've never seen that level of intolerance. Like anybody who asked any question was not just wrong or misinformed, but evil and deserving of death.

• 1:06:18Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:06:18Tucker Carlson?

  What as a doctor, is that the view of doctors? Like anyone who questions this should die?

• 1:06:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:24Tucker Carlson?

  What is that?

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  Quite astounding, Tucker. It's one of those areas in medicine where it's become a religion and you can't question it.

• 1:06:30Tucker Carlson?

  But why was that the case when you were in medical school?

• 1:06:32Speaker 02

  Not really. Like I just I don't understand what happened. I think there was there was a sense that that you know, we're being not given this whole story and the whole truth. And I think this is true. And I think most people don't know.

• 1:06:44Tucker Carlson?

  Well, whenever they attack you for asking questions, then you can be certain you're not getting the whole story.

• 1:06:48Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And you and people have attacked me. There's this group called the American Council on Science and Health, which has gone after me and they're they're basically funded by Monsanto and pesticide companies and Pharma and tobacco companies and the fast food companies. And so they they, you know, like I'm I'm pretty.

• 1:07:05Tucker Carlson?

  They sound like a fun group.

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. And they and they sound great. And this is one of their strategies. So so the the way in which the food you ask how this has happened, it's not by accident. So the food industry and the industry have deliberately set up a series of actions and strategies across all sectors of society to take over the narrative. One, they fund most of the research. So there's there's 12 times as much research, quote, on nutrition from food industry. In other words, the American Beverage Association does a study on artificial sweeteners. They find they're fine and they don't you they do a study on soda. They find it doesn't cause obesity, right? That's kind of garbage science and there's eight to 50 times more likely to show a benefit for their product if they're funding it. So they take over the research infrastructure. They they take over the professional associations, the American Heart Association receives $192 million a year

• 1:07:50Speaker 02

  from Pharma and Food, American Diabetes Association, Academy Nutrition Dietetics. All the major professional associations, which we think are independent, giving us independent advice are funded and co-opted by these. And I mean, it's it's.

• 1:08:03Tucker Carlson?

  That's what about the autism groups?

• 1:08:07Tucker Carlson?

  Because I always wondered, there's been this massive increase in autism. I don't know what's causing it. It's not genetic. That's not true. It's not because we broaden the classification of autism.

• 1:08:14Speaker 02

  No, no, no, it's not better just data detection. It's a thousand percent. I mean.

• 1:08:16Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, right. So and it's a. It's a life ending crisis.

• 1:08:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, it went from one in twenty five hundred to one in twenty six kids, twenty thirty nine kids.

• 1:08:23Tucker Carlson?

  We all know people who have autistic children and it's it's really is a tragedy. So there are all these autism groups and they're all they're incredibly pompous and self righteous.

• 1:08:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:33Tucker Carlson?

  But all of them have sort of shot down the idea that like we should ask any questions about where this comes from.

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  Well, not all of them. There are some are asking.

• 1:08:40Tucker Carlson?

  The big ones have.

• 1:08:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:08:42Tucker Carlson?

  I know someone who worked on it. I was like, what what's causing this? Shut up!

• 1:08:44Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:08:45Tucker Carlson?

  It's like, you work in an autism group, why aren't you interested?

• 1:08:47Speaker 02

  Exactly. I mean, this is.

• 1:08:48Tucker Carlson?

  So who's funding them? Do you know? We should take a closer look.

• 1:08:51Speaker 02

  I don't know. But but but there's autism groups and then they fund not only professional associations, not only they fund nutrition research, but they obviously also create these these front groups like the American Council on Science and Health and Crop Life and all these nice sounding things.

• 1:09:06Tucker Carlson?

  American Council on Science and Health sounds very legitimate.

• 1:09:08Speaker 02

  It sounds legitimate. And you look at these guys, how these guys were in jail.

• 1:09:11Tucker Carlson?

  Are you against science and health?

• 1:09:12Speaker 02

  What? No, but one of these guys was like in jail for Medicare fraud for eight million dollars. You look at these guys, they're criminals.

• 1:09:18Tucker Carlson?

  Well, he knows a lot about science and health.

• 1:09:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And so and then and then I'm serious. So they and then they fund social groups. So this get this Tucker. They fund like the NAACP and the Hispanic Federation.

• 1:09:28Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I'm aware of that.

• 1:09:29Speaker 02

  And and I was I was.

• 1:09:30Tucker Carlson?

  So Al Sharpton, that's where he got his suits, taking money.

• 1:09:33Speaker 02

  That's right. I was I was with Bernie's King at the in Washington, in Atlanta.

• 1:09:38Tucker Carlson?

  Nice woman. Yeah.

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  We were going to show the movie Fed Up, which was about childhood obesity and how our sugar industry was causing this, our food industry was causing this. And and she said, nonviolence is just not nonviolence to others, but it's nonviolence to yourself. And I think this is important and I want to show this film in the King Center. So I said, great. And so a few days later, she called me back and said, Mark can't do it. I said, why? Coca-Cola funds the King Center.

• 1:10:02Tucker Carlson?

  And obesity is not a problem in the black community.

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  You know, if you look at African Americans in the sixties, they were healthier than white Americans. If you look at that movie Amazing Grace with Aretha Franklin.

• 1:10:13Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I know.

• 1:10:13Speaker 02

  It's a great movie. She was thin and every black person in that congregation in Oakland in nineteen seventy was thin. And now eighty five percent of African American women are overweight. This is.

• 1:10:23Tucker Carlson?

  It was LA, I think, not Oakland.

• 1:10:24Speaker 02

  Really? Was it LA? Okay.

• 1:10:26Tucker Carlson?

  Was she recording the gospel album?

• 1:10:27Speaker 02

  It was, yeah, it was the amazing grace. I don't remember. It's just a great documentary.

• 1:10:32Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, it's the most incredible album, too.

• 1:10:34Speaker 02

  So they fund social groups to help oppose things that they don't want, like soda taxes. Or they fund like the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, which is one of the premier children's hospitals. Chop was going to actually come out in favor of a soda tax, but Coca-Cola gave them $10 million and they pulled back. This is the kind of stuff they do. They have, they fund science, they co-op professional associations, they fund, you know, the social groups, they create front groups and they are huge lobbyists. And so they're very deliberate in how they do this. In fact, it was illegal. They got a huge lawsuit against them from Secretary, Attorney General of Washington State because they colluded, a lot of the food industry groups colluded to fight against GMO labeling, which they wanted to do in Washington.

• 1:11:19Speaker 02

  Now, America and Syria are the only countries that don't allow GMO. It's a pretty good company.

• 1:11:24Tucker Carlson?

  Syria's got bigger problems.

• 1:11:25Speaker 02

  China and Russia, you know, are transparent about this and they're not known for their.

• 1:11:28Tucker Carlson?

  They're not allowed in Russia.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  Right. Yeah. And so, so basically they funded this campaign for a ballot initiative to defeat the GMO labeling. And they, they, they won, but they did it illegally and they spent huge amounts of money doing it. And they were then fined and had the biggest fine ever, which was trivial for them. It was like, I don't know, $18 million or something that they had to pay, but it was trivial. But they, they got a big slap on the wrist for doing this, but it were, but they won. Same thing in California when Jerry Brown was, was governor and he's Governor Moonbeam. I mean, he's as left as you can get. You know, and, and there were soda taxes being passed all around California and the soda industry got together, American Beverage Association. They said, we're going to create a ballot measure that's going to require two third majority for every vote in any state or local government for anything would basically paralyze the government of California if they pass this ballot measure.

• 1:12:15Speaker 02

  And they were funding it with millions of dollars, had nothing to do with food. They said, look, Jerry, we're going to pull this ballot measure, but you've got to put in a permanent ban on soda tax in California. And he did. That's what's going on behind the scenes.

• 1:12:26Tucker Carlson?

  There's a permanent ban on soda taxes?

• 1:12:28Speaker 02

  In California.

• 1:12:29Tucker Carlson?

  There's no permanent ban on any other kind of taxes. So that's, that's also what bothers me is I, I do think there should be one standard for everyone in every category, because we're all American citizens. So nobody should be exempt, exempt from taxes.

• 1:12:41Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:12:41Tucker Carlson?

  Very much including college endowments. And nobody should be exempt from lawsuits unless all of us are. And so I don't understand, like, one of the reasons orthopedic surgeons don't do knee replacements drunk is they can be sued for it.

• 1:12:51Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:12:52Tucker Carlson?

  But drug makers, for a certain category of drug,

• 1:12:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:55Tucker Carlson?

  have blanket immunity. Where do I get, do you have blanket immunity granted by Congress?

• 1:12:59Speaker 02

  I wish, I wish, that would be nice. How do we get that?

• 1:13:02Tucker Carlson?

  So I don't, but, okay, I don't understand the thinking.

• 1:13:04Speaker 02

  Give me 20 million dollars, I'll donate, maybe I can get that for you.

• 1:13:06Tucker Carlson?

  No, but like, this is absolutely nuts.

• 1:13:08Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:13:09Tucker Carlson?

  How, how does one category of product have blanket immunity from law, statutorily blanket immunity? And no, and they're like, well, we provide a vital, a vital service. Well, everybody who works thinks he provides a vital service.

• 1:13:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:13:23Tucker Carlson?

  Who doesn't think he's, you think you're providing a vital service? I do.

• 1:13:26Speaker 02

  I mean, you, you want to.

• 1:13:27Tucker Carlson?

  I don't get it.

• 1:13:27Speaker 02

  You wanted to incentivize innovation, you want to incentivize science, you want to, you know, accelerate things that may be really necessary in ways that, you know, are, are probably not possible within the normal course of how we develop drugs.

• 1:13:39Tucker Carlson?

  Well, then let's do tort reform.

• 1:13:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:13:41Tucker Carlson?

  But, but we all benefit from it.

• 1:13:43Speaker 02

  Vaccines, you know, some of them were not that profitable and, and some are very profitable. Uh, but what's happened is that, that in 1980, I think it was 86, the US government indemnified vaccine makers.

• 1:13:56Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I know.

• 1:13:57Speaker 02

  So that meant that they can make vaccines and never be sued. And they created a vaccine court, deal with vaccine injury. And they've paid over $5 billion in vaccine injuries.

• 1:14:05Tucker Carlson?

  So the drug companies paid for over $5 billion?

• 1:14:07Speaker 02

  No, no, no, the US taxpayers paid.

• 1:14:08Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So you're saying that the drug companies can never be sued, but if they are sued, taxpayers have to pay the damages?

• 1:14:14Speaker 02

  That's right, that's right, federal, federal vaccine court. Yeah.

• 1:14:16Tucker Carlson?

  And, and. So that's the biggest scam I think I've ever heard of, ever.

• 1:14:19Speaker 02

  I mean, in, in a way, I understood the thinking behind it because, you know, you want to incentivize rapid development of, of drugs that aren't going to be that profitable. Right? So, but it turns out that many of these drugs are profitable, like rotavirus, which is a new vaccine. And we've, when we were kids, there were like eight, eight shots. Now there's like 72 shots you get. And, and many countries, for example, don't allow, for example, hepatitis B at birth is, is a vaccine we're recommending in America. And it's what you get from IV drugs or sex. Now, I don't know any newborns that are doing IV drugs or sex. And, and you know, if you are-

• 1:14:50Tucker Carlson?

  Probably not a lot.

• 1:14:51Speaker 02

  Probably a lot. But many countries don't actually have it on their vaccine schedule. You know, we do. And so with, with rotavirus, for example, they profit a hundred billion dollars. It's a hundred billion dollar profit for them. That's nuts, right?

• 1:15:03Tucker Carlson?

  Do you have any idea why the trial bar, which has always been one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington, and definitely the most powerful in the Democratic Party, haven't said anything about this?

• 1:15:13Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:15:13Tucker Carlson?

  So their argument has always been, look, if you want safer goods and services, you have to apply a penalty to people who are negligent.

• 1:15:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:21Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, that's what, that's their argument. It's not a crazy argument, by the way.

• 1:15:24Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 1:15:25Tucker Carlson?

  And Coca-Cola, by the way, for all its faults, can be sued if they poison you with a can of Diet Coke.

• 1:15:30Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:15:30Tucker Carlson?

  So they don't.

• 1:15:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:15:31Tucker Carlson?

  So why wouldn't that, and by the way, if you're saying, well, I can't make enough money selling my product, why don't you convince people to buy it then? Just convince people that it's a good product and they'll probably pay for it.

• 1:15:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:42Tucker Carlson?

  No?

• 1:15:43Speaker 02

  I understand that. I mean, it's, it wasn't a completely stupid idea, but it's ended up being a bit of a disaster. And I think, I think all we need is better science, good science.

• 1:15:50Tucker Carlson?

  Well, if you have a government that's like, you must use this product, you have, you've got no choice. We'll punish you if you don't use the product. And then you get injured by the product.

• 1:15:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:58Tucker Carlson?

  Most people got injured, like had no idea they could be injured because nobody told them. They do get injured.

• 1:16:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:02Tucker Carlson?

  You're told to shut up and just suffer or die in silence. And then you've got no recourse?

• 1:16:06Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:16:07Tucker Carlson?

  And the, and then the people who sold you the product at gunpoint become billionaires? That seems like a very flawed system.

• 1:16:13Speaker 02

  It's a bit, it's a bit messed up. I mean, it's, it's a bit messed up.

• 1:16:15Tucker Carlson?

  Kind of a perfect system for the drug company.

• 1:16:17Speaker 02

  But it just sort of underscores the bigger problem in our society, which is that we, we really have multinational and transnational corporations profiting from creating more sickness. You know, the food companies create illness, the pharma companies pay for the illness, drug treatments, and the whole thing just works for them. But we have to change this. And we, and we can, as a federal government, change the policies because other countries have done this. They've been successful. They, they're winning the war on this problem. And, and we need a focused effort. And I think there's so many things that could be done in this administration.

• 1:16:48Tucker Carlson?

  Okay. So tell us about Bobby Kennedy, who you've, for viewers who haven't followed this for a long, you've known him for a long time. You wrote a book with him. He's not just like some guy you met at a cocktail party.

• 1:16:56Speaker 02

  No, no, no.

• 1:16:57Tucker Carlson?

  You know him really well. You just, you told me at dinner last night, you were just staying with him.

• 1:17:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:01Tucker Carlson?

  Um, do you want to say where you're staying? Because I thought it was hilarious.

• 1:17:03Speaker 02

  Oh, we were staying at Dr. Oz's house.

• 1:17:05Tucker Carlson?

  Mark Hyman, Bobby Kennedy, were the meanses there too?

• 1:17:10Speaker 02

  Callie was there.

• 1:17:11Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, Callie Means and Dr. Oz all staying together.

• 1:17:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:14Tucker Carlson?

  So it is, it's a conspiracy of light, I would say. Um, but anyway, but you know Bobby really well.

• 1:17:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:19Tucker Carlson?

  Personally and professionally, what do you think his strengths are going into this job?

• 1:17:23Speaker 02

  I think he's, he's, he's has the right focus and perspective, which is that we have a crisis, which is our chronic disease epidemic. It's been neglected by scientific community predominantly. It's been neglected by the federal government. It's bankrupting us, it's causing destruction of our environment, of our social structures, of our academic competitive and global competitiveness of our military. And he understands that these needs to be addressed. And so I think that's a huge strength. I think he wants to focus on, on rooting out corruption, rooting out conflicts of interest in the, in agencies. I think he wants to implement policies that are going to transform the health of America. And, and you know, we're working on a whole series of different ideas, but I think the NIH needs to be reformed.

• 1:18:05Speaker 02

  They should basically fund, fund nutrition research around chronic disease, which they don't, very small amount of money goes to that.

• 1:18:11Tucker Carlson?

  Really, they still don't.

• 1:18:12Speaker 02

  Like 5%, but, uh, but it's 80% of the diseases we're seeing. They, they should have a mandate, for example, that all medical schools and academic institutions that receive federal funding from any source should have a nutrition curriculum and that it should be mandated. And there's, there's, there's reason for that because doctors graduating today, my daughter's in medical school, she's in fourth year medical school, not a single thing on nutrition. Like, what did you learn? Well, I learned a bit of amino acids and fatty acids. I mean, what are you going to tell your patient to have for lunch? You know, like, and, and so zero education, that could be changed.

• 1:18:41Tucker Carlson?

  Was that true when you were in medical school?

• 1:18:43Speaker 02

  Of course, yeah. I learned about, you know, quasuris, corn, miasmas and rickets and serupthalmia, all these rare diseases from vitamin deficiencies in Africa and protein malnutrition.

• 1:18:52Tucker Carlson?

  Berry berry.

• 1:18:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, berry berry and pellagra. I'm like, I never seen any of that, you know, like I, I didn't see any of that. So I, I think, you know, I did see some malnutrition when I was in Haiti, but, but it was, you know, really, really rare. And, and what, what we're not doing this, the NIH could do a lot. And then the, the HHS could fund with Medicare nutrition services in medic, in medicine, which it doesn't pay for now. So if you have diabetes or heart disease or auto diablos diseases, very hard to get nutrition services. And we, we at Cleveland Clinic created a lifestyle change program. Where we got people to work together to change their behavior and change lifestyles. It was based on this sort of work I did with Rick Warren and Saddleback Church, where we got 15,000 people to lose a quarter of a million pounds in a year by actually getting

• 1:19:35Speaker 02

  healthy together. So really, it's about behavior change and also what to do. So they changed it was in the refineries. They got rid of the pancake breakfast, the ice cream socials. They got everybody jogging for Jesus. It was great. And then they lost a lot of weight. Rick lost a ton of weight. They got healthy. And we showed how people doing this in groups actually works. And this could be funded by the federal government.

• 1:19:55Tucker Carlson?

  Well, schools used to do that.

• 1:19:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:57Tucker Carlson?

  I don't think they do anymore.

• 1:19:58Speaker 02

  No. And so we know, we know actually how to change behavior. We know how to change these chronic diseases with food. And that needs to be funded. Like I said, we don't have evidence-based medicine. We have reimbursement-based medicine. There's a company called Verta that reverses type 2 diabetes. And 60% of their patients using a ketogenic diet. They do it with a continuous care online model. They reverse all the biomarkers for heart disease. They get those better. They have about 12% weight loss.

• 1:20:22Tucker Carlson?

  We can say they reverse 60% of diagnosed type 2.

• 1:20:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, fairly advanced type 2 diabetes.

• 1:20:27Tucker Carlson?

  Like insulin dependent?

• 1:20:28Speaker 02

  100%. They get 100% off the medication, the main medication for diabetes. They get 90% plus.

• 1:20:33Tucker Carlson?

  When is?

• 1:20:34Speaker 02

  They save $6,000 per diabetic patient. And if you apply that to the Medicare diabetes population, just doing that alone would save $100 billion a year.

• 1:20:43Tucker Carlson?

  Not even counting all the amputated limbs and all the suffering that goes along with it. So roughly, when is the average type 2 diabetic diagnosed as such?

• 1:20:55Speaker 02

  Depends. I mean, if you're a Pima Indian, you could be three years old. You know, 80% of Pima Indians, by the time they're 30, have type 2 diabetes.

• 1:21:03Tucker Carlson?

  80?

• 1:21:04Speaker 02

  80%. 80%. In certain communities, it's rampant. And African Americans, it's much higher than whites. In Hispanics, it's much higher than whites. So the age can vary, but the pre-diabetes starts early. So we're measuring with function. My company, Function Health, insulin resistance, and we're measuring insulin. And most doctors never measure insulin. I asked Quest, how many doctors are measuring insulin? Probably less than 1% of the

• 1:21:30Tucker Carlson?

  Quest is the testing.

• 1:21:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, the Questing Top, yeah, like less than 1% get measurements for insulin, which is the single biggest thing we have a problem with in America, which is our insulin levels are spiking because of sugar. Insulin, when it's high, causes you to store belly fat. It makes you hungry. It locks the fat in your fat cells and it slows your metabolism. So you're screwed and you get stuck in this vicious cycle where you have hungry fat that makes you eat more, that makes you want to exercise less and you get in this cycle of waking. Nobody wakes up any every day going, I want to be diabetic. I want to be overweight. I want to gain weight. Nobody says that.

• 1:22:00Tucker Carlson?

  People do wake up craving sugar, cereal and pancakes.

• 1:22:03Speaker 02

  Exactly, because their metabolism and biochemistry has been hijacked by the food industry.

• 1:22:07Tucker Carlson?

  How long does it take to get out of that cycle?

• 1:22:09Speaker 02

  Very quick, very quick.

• 1:22:10Tucker Carlson?

  How quick?

• 1:22:11Speaker 02

  Well, I, I.

• 1:22:12Tucker Carlson?

  Let's say you're on a typical American diet and you're waking up with Frosted Flakes.

• 1:22:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:17Tucker Carlson?

  Getting some kind of big sandwich and then having pasta for dinner. You're doing that for 10 years. How long does it take you to get out of the cycle?

• 1:22:23Speaker 02

  I, I actually done this with my patients for decades and I created a program called the 10, 10 day detox diet. And essentially it's, it's 10 days of treating food addiction. And I wrote a book about it called the 10 day detox diet. I have an online program starting actually in January. If you want to go to 10daydetox.com and essentially guides people through how to reset your biochemistry, your hormones, your gut microbiome metabolism very quickly through food. So one of these patients I had in Cleveland Clinic, she lost, she started the program and in three days she was off her insulin. So the cravings go away in two or three days. You feel shitty for two or three, three days and then you start reducing symptoms. And what happens is when you take out the bad stuff and put in the good stuff, you see

• 1:23:06Speaker 02

  changes across your whole system because you know, when I talk about food as a root cause, it's a root cause for so many of the things people are suffering from. So depression and autoimmune diseases and gut issues.

• 1:23:18Tucker Carlson?

  Anger.

• 1:23:18Speaker 02

  Anger. I mean, yeah, it's, it's amazing and we know.

• 1:23:21Tucker Carlson?

  Sugar causes anger.

• 1:23:23Speaker 02

  Yes, actually the data.

• 1:23:24Tucker Carlson?

  What is that?

• 1:23:25Speaker 02

  Pretty interesting. So the amygdala is the reptile brain, fight or flight. It's your, it's your reptilian lizard brain. You all have one.

• 1:23:33Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:33Speaker 02

  And. We have a frontal lobe, which is the grown up in the room.

• 1:23:38Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:38Speaker 02

  So you've got the reptile kind of, and you've got the grown up. The communication there is important. So when you, when you're walking down the street and you see if a beautiful woman, you say, gee, I'd like to kiss that woman. You don't do it because you know, it's not a good idea for your marriage, right?

• 1:23:54Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:54Speaker 02

  Right. You have the frontal lobe and that's probably not a good idea. Or gee, I like that car over there. I wouldn't just take that car. And my car was stolen from my driveway two days ago. It was crazy, but that's another story. But, but you know, people don't have control over their behavior because the amygdala and the frontal lobe communication is interrupted by inflammation. Inflammation in the brain is the root cause of so many of brain issues. So depression is inflammation, autism is inflammation, ADD is inflammation, Alzheimer's is inflammation in the brain. And Chris Palmer is a Harvard psychiatrist who wrote a book called Brain Energy, talking about this. And how he cured schizophrenia using a ketogenic diet, getting people off of sugar.

• 1:24:34Tucker Carlson?

  Curing schizophrenia?

• 1:24:35Speaker 02

  Yes. Yes. So, so we have, I'm saying these things that sound like crazy, heretical, we can, reverse Alzheimer's, reverse diabetes.

• 1:24:43Tucker Carlson?

  Well, they, they are heretical, but by definition, they're heretical. It doesn't mean they're crazy though.

• 1:24:47Speaker 02

  No, I mean, the science is there. It's like, if you look, if you actually look online, there's a National Library of Medicine database called PubMed. Anybody can search it and you can look at these things and you can look them up. They're online. There's studies done. There's plenty of studies, but they don't translate.

• 1:25:03Tucker Carlson?

  So it sounds like you said so far, the ketogenic diet can cure.

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  Diabetes, Alzheimer's, cancer.

• 1:25:09Tucker Carlson?

  And now schizophrenia.

• 1:25:11Speaker 02

  Schizophrenia, yeah.

• 1:25:12Tucker Carlson?

  So what I, so will you describe the ketogenic diet just to be?

• 1:25:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure. So, so basically this is something that was developed for epilepsy of years ago. Because when no drugs work for epilepsy, neurologists realized that if they put people on a diet where their brain was just running on ketones, which is the fuel instead of sugar that the body can run on. Remember I said we're hybrid ACDC? The gasoline is carbs and the hybrid electric clean burning fuel is ketones. So when you switch to ketones, it activates the brain's repair systems. It improves mitochondrial function. It reduces inflammation. It helps cognitive function at every level. So I've seen it work from autism to Alzheimer's to schizophrenia to depression.

• 1:25:54Tucker Carlson?

  It's just an all protein diet?

• 1:25:56Speaker 02

  It's not all protein. It's fat. It's actually 75% fat. Olive oil, avocados, nuts and seeds, animal fats, dairy fats. And it basically should be a healthy version of it because you can, you know, eat bacon and that's not a good idea. But you, you, you can do healthy ketogenic diets that actually improve health and reverse disease and work across all these things. So sugar is really driving this big problem. Sugar and starch. And by the way, flour, bagel, I mean, I had a, I had a, um, did a lecture the other day and a woman said, you know, I had a bagel for breakfast. I noticed I had a glucose monitor and my sugar spiked 70 points. You know, she's got a metabolic problem and, and you can start to see when you eat these foods, your, your, your body gets dysregulated.

• 1:26:37Speaker 02

  And when you use, use a diet that actually shuts off this cravings, that repairs the metabolic dysfunction, that improves insulin sensitivity. It doesn't take long. So, so it's shocking. In five or 10 days, you get, we get a 70% reduction from all symptoms and all diseases by people just changing their diet. And most people, Tucker, don't connect how they feel with what they're eating. They don't make the connection. And so they, they, they think they're suffering from all these problems that are related to what they're eating.

• 1:27:03Tucker Carlson?

  Why is it so hard for people to maintain a ketogenic diet?

• 1:27:07Speaker 02

  Well, it's a very extreme diet. I don't think you need to be so extreme. Like a 10 day detox is not keto, but it does like probably 80 or 90% of the benefit. So you get to eat more starchy foods.

• 1:27:16Tucker Carlson?

  Well, let's just say you just said, I'm going on a keto diet from now until I die.

• 1:27:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, probably, probably, you know, what you want to do is use it to fix the problem and then come off it. We, we were always doing this historically because we were hunting and gathering and sometimes we didn't hunt and gather very well. We couldn't find anything. So we would switch into burning fat because we probably have 2,500 calories of sugar stored in our muscles. That doesn't last very long. That'll last a day. But we probably have 30, 50, 60, 100,000 calories of fat. In our body because we just naturally have fat in our body and that's a great source of fuel. So what happens is the body starts to break down the fat and uses that and that's what happens when we overnight fast or we do, you know, ketogenic diet, you slip into this alternative metabolic pathway. And that pathway is incredibly helpful for longevity,

• 1:28:04Speaker 02

  it's helpful for reversing chronic diseases and across all these diseases, we're seeing the same thing happen. So really, the bottom line here is that sugar and starch is the problem in America and it's in every processed food, it's in what people are eating every day and people have no idea how much they're consuming and

• 1:28:19Tucker Carlson?

  So if you take out all the sugar and all the starch, is that the same as keto?

• 1:28:23Speaker 02

  Not necessarily. I mean, for example, you can, if you can take out ultra-processed food and you can stop your liquid sugar calories, if you can eat more good fats, eat good quality protein, lots of fruits and vegetables, most of our problems will go away. This is not, this is not complicated science. And so you don't have to be super extreme. But if you are in an extreme situation and you have an extreme disease on your far end of the spectrum of type 2 diabetes, yeah, you might need to do that for a while till you fix your metabolism. So once you fix your metabolism-

• 1:28:49Tucker Carlson?

  Does the metabolism return to balance?

• 1:28:51Speaker 02

  Hundred percent. I mean, yep. I mean, you've got, like I showed you the picture last night of that woman, she had type 2 diabetes, she had heart failure, she had hypertension, she had kidneys failing, she had fatty liver. She changed her diet and three months she was off all her medications, off all her insulin, reversed her diabetes, reversed her heart failure, reversed her kidney failure, reversed her liver failing. She was on her way to heart and kidney transplant. This is not a patient who's like just slightly broken. She's 66 on her way out. And in a year, she lost 116 pounds and off all her medication. It wasn't through rocket science or, or through some great new advance in medicine, it was just through applying the basic principles of nutrition and how the system works.

• 1:29:28Tucker Carlson?

  Can you take, pretty much, so like any insulin-dependent patient in his 50s, can he be cured?

• 1:29:34Speaker 02

  Type 1, no. Type 1 is an autoimmune disease.

• 1:29:36Tucker Carlson?

  I understand. No, I'm sorry.

• 1:29:37Speaker 02

  But type 2, if you're on insulin, you know, you, you can probably get 60 to 70% of those people off of insulin or dramatically lower on insulin. And you can reverse completely diabetes in about 60, 70% of those patients. And this is well-documented science. I'm not, you know, pulling this out of thin air.

• 1:29:55Tucker Carlson?

  So why wouldn't that be a goal?

• 1:29:57Speaker 02

  Well, that's one of the, that's one of the things I think, that's one of the things I think the new administration needs to do is, I mean, we spend over a billion dollars a day on diabetes.

• 1:30:06Speaker 02

  And this is a completely avoidable problem and it's the biggest driver again of all these problems. If you have diabetes, you're four times likely to get Alzheimer's, more likely to get cancer, more likely to get heart attacks. All the things are caused by this fundamental problem of sugar and starch in your diet. And so I think that the federal government should initiate a diabetes reversal campaign across HHS and Health and Human Services and fund these trials and demonstration projects, show this works, and then scale it up. Because this is a solvable problem. You know, I can't, I can't fix Middle East crisis. I can't, you know, end the war in Ukraine. I can't, you know, prevent

• 1:30:38Tucker Carlson?

  Those are hard, yeah.

• 1:30:39Speaker 02

  war. But this is a solvable problem. The answers are clear. The solutions are clear.

• 1:30:43Tucker Carlson?

  We did an interview with a woman called Casey Means. She's a Stanford educated surgeon and really one of the most remarkable people I have ever met. In the interview, she explained how the food that we eat, produced by huge food companies, Big Food, in conjunction with pharma, is destroying our health, making this a weak and sick country. The levels of chronic disease are beyond belief. What Casey Means, we've not stopped thinking about ever since, is the co-founder of a healthcare technology company called Levels. And we are proud to announce today that we are partnering with Levels. And by proud, I mean sincerely proud. Levels is a really interesting company and a great product. It gives you insight

• 1:31:28Tucker Carlson?

  into what's going on inside your body, your metabolic health. It helps you understand how the food that you're eating, the things that you're doing every single day are affecting your body in real time. And you don't think about it. You have no idea what you're putting in your mouth and you have no idea what it's doing to your body. But over time, you feel weak and tired and spacey and over an even longer period of time, you can get really sick. So it's worth knowing what the food you eat is doing to you. The Levels app works with something called a continuous glucose monitor, a CGM. You can get one as part of the plan or you can bring your own. It doesn't matter. But the bottom line is, big tech, big pharma, and big food combine together to form an incredibly malevolent

• 1:32:12Tucker Carlson?

  force, pumping you full of garbage, unhealthy food with artificial sugars, and hurting you and hurting the entire country. So with Levels, you'll be able to see immediately what all of this is doing to you. You get access to real-time personalized data and it's a critical step to changing your behavior. Those of us who like Oreos can tell you firsthand. This isn't talking to your doctor and annual physical, looking backwards about things you did in the past. This is up to the second information on how your body is responding to different foods and activities, the things that give you stress, your sleep, et cetera, et cetera. It's easy to use. It gives you powerful personalized health data and you can make much better choices about how you feel. And over time, it'll have a huge effect.

• 1:32:56Tucker Carlson?

  Right now, you can get an additional two free months when you go to levels.link/tucker. That's levels.link/tucker. This is the beginning of what we hope will be a long and happy partnership with Levels and Dr. Casey Mee.

• 1:33:12Speaker 00

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• 1:33:38Speaker 05

  It's me, the

• 1:33:44Speaker 05

  We don't need the jingle twice. Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars.

• 1:33:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app. Fine. No one deals more deals than Please stop. Touche.

• 1:34:08Speaker 05

  Priceline.

• 1:34:22Tucker Carlson?

  So I buy everything you're saying. It's, I think it's demonstrably true. You can feel it in yourself.

• 1:34:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:28Tucker Carlson?

  And, you know, one anomaly does not disprove a general truth.

• 1:34:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:33Tucker Carlson?

  But Donald Trump is that one anomaly.

• 1:34:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. I don't know if you remember U B Blake, he was a musician and he smoked and drank and did all these aid crap. He says, if I would have known I was going to live so long, I would have taken better care of myself. And I think, you know, there are people.

• 1:34:51Tucker Carlson?

  I have a father like that.

• 1:34:52Speaker 02

  I mean, there are people who just like Madame Klamau, she lived to 122 years old. She smoked, she drank, she ate tons of chocolate. She was never married. Maybe that was her secret, but she was the oldest living human ever.

• 1:35:02Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:35:03Speaker 02

  And, you know, some, some people just have genes that make them go no matter what. And so I would like to see what his blood work says. I would like to know what's going on in the hood. I mean, that would be amazing. And certainly we'd like to help anybody be healthy. I, I take care of everybody, you know, when one day my office had a Muslim, I had a chief rabbi, I had a top Democrat, a top Republican, I had a Christian pastor. It was like, you know, it was so funny, but I'm, I'm a doctor. I take care of humans and, you know, biology is bipartisan. We, we all are human. We all suffer from the same things.

• 1:35:34Tucker Carlson?

  There are genetic anomalies.

• 1:35:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, there are.

• 1:35:37Tucker Carlson?

  Cause I just had an ice cream sundae with, with Trump like three days ago.

• 1:35:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:41Tucker Carlson?

  I'm, I'm off the ice cream sundays for a while.

• 1:35:43Speaker 02

  Thank you, Tucker.

• 1:35:45Tucker Carlson?

  Got to get off him, but um, he's 25 years older than I am.

• 1:35:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:49Tucker Carlson?

  And I'm not just saying this, I'm not sucking up. I, I wouldn't say anything if this weren't true, but the guy's sharp.

• 1:35:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:54Tucker Carlson?

  Actually sharp.

• 1:35:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:55Tucker Carlson?

  Really precise, recall, fast, funny.

• 1:35:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:59Tucker Carlson?

  And, you know.

• 1:36:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:00Tucker Carlson?

  Pretty good shape, 79, chat like wow, that, that's just a freak of nature thing.

• 1:36:05Speaker 02

  I think it is, you know, I think it is. I mean, I think, you know, uh, would I love him to get healthy and everybody to get healthy? Yes, that's my job. I'm a doctor, but uh, if he's managing and doing great, I, what can I say?

• 1:36:17Tucker Carlson?

  But, but for most of us, that's not gonna work, is it?

• 1:36:19Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 1:36:19Tucker Carlson?

  I can feel that it's not gonna work for me either.

• 1:36:21Speaker 02

  No, it's not. Most of us are more in the human realm. He's an anomaly.

• 1:36:26Tucker Carlson?

  That's why, sorry, I just had to say that. Cause I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.

• 1:36:31Speaker 02

  Um, I, I don't, I don't know if anybody's really had a chance to sit down and talk to him about his health and health risks and how he could do better. But, you know, I don't know, I don't mean, I don't know how you do, how we do that job at, at 78 years old, but he's, he's crushing it, it looks like.

• 1:36:42Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:44Tucker Carlson?

  So he's not like, and by the way, most, I've known a lot of people who've been president and none of them are kind of normal.

• 1:36:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:51Tucker Carlson?

  It's, it's an unusual job. It takes a lot to get there. It's a certain kind of person.

• 1:36:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:56Tucker Carlson?

  There, I don't know the last time we had a president die in office. It's been quite some time, but it seems to kind of suspend. Maybe it's the intensity.

• 1:37:03Speaker 02

  Wardron Wilson had a stroke, but that was it.

• 1:37:05Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, no, but he, he, he made it out of office.

• 1:37:07Speaker 02

  Well, his wife was president for a while.

• 1:37:08Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, well, right, right. Oh, we, we have that now, actually. But, um, but they still keep going. I don't know. So you think that after all the, the powerful forces you've described a raid against Bobby Kennedy can, can still win?

• 1:37:22Speaker 02

  I do. I think, I think what, what's going on now in America is, is an awakening. I think there's an awareness that the trust in our medical system and science system has been broken. It needs to be repaired. It needs integrity. It needs someone

• 1:37:34Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:37:35Speaker 02

  Calling out the conflicts of interest and needs good science being produced. And I think, you know, with, with the understanding that now we're in this chronic disease crisis, that he's so well articulated and people like Casey and Callie on your podcast have done, that I've done for decades, that somehow it's getting through. That this is never an issue. This was never an issue in any, I've been crying from rooftops for 30 years. I felt like I've been this voice crying in the wilderness. And now it's unbelievable to me to see.

• 1:38:05Tucker Carlson?

  Must be pretty cool for you to see this.

• 1:38:07Speaker 02

  It's unbelievable. And I, and I see that there's an awakening in America that people are sick and tired of being sick and tired. They, they're seeing everybody in their family sick. They're seeing the rise of all the diseases. They know something's broken. They know the drugs and the current system is not fixing it the way it is. It needs to be fixed. And, and we need somebody to lead this. And I think, you know, Bobby has his issues and his controversies and his questions, but at, at the very heart, I think he's, he's focused on the right thing, which is focusing on the root causes of our chronic disease epidemic, focusing on the problems with our food system, with our ag system. And, and that is the right thing to be doing. And I think the federal government has enormous power to actually change this through a whole series of different actions across different agencies that, that all can work together to make a difference. And I'm, I'm thinking

• 1:38:49Speaker 02

  this is now going to happen. I think we can provide for these things across all the agencies. They're not like hard things, right? We can, we can improve SNAP. We can improve school lunches. We can improve our dietary guidelines and fund those. And we have dietary guidelines for Americans. There's no funding for them. The, the, the Congress mandates that they are produced every five years. I met with the guidelines people in HHS. I said, we have to go around with a tin cup to the other departments to beg for nickels to actually fund our work because we don't get any federal funding to create the dietary guidelines, nor does NACOM, the National Academy of Science, Medicine and Engineering, which is supposed to review the literature and be an independent scientific body, looking at the nutritional research, doesn't have the funding to do basic literature reviews

• 1:39:33Speaker 02

  and science reviews to actually inform the dietary guidelines. So there's no money in the process and there's no money to implement the guidelines to actually create awareness and implementation across America for what we should be eating. So the whole system is, is sort of broken and we need to sort of rejigger that. We can find, I don't know how many billions of dollars we spent on, you know, forever wars. I mean, we're talking about a few million dollars, like a few millions of dollars could make a profound difference in actually getting the right things done. So we have the ability to change what's happening in the DOD as well, you know, with, with the military readiness and, and performance and performance enhancement. And I've been working with special ops forces on some of this stuff and, and, you know, the, the military is starting to understand that this is an issue and shifts some of their policies. You know, the, the NIH needs to fund, again, nutrition research.

• 1:40:18Speaker 02

  We should probably have a national institute of nutrition like many other countries have. We shouldn't allow funding for medical schools that don't actually provide nutrition curriculum. So we should, you know, have our agricultural system supporting farmers to transition to regenerative agriculture and produce healthier food and revitalize those communities and stop their, their extreme decline into sort of financial ruin and suicide. I mean, why, why is there a 350% higher risk of suicide in farmers? You know, that's ridiculous. And that's because of, of our policies and what we're doing and how they're squeezed. So we have across all the agencies, such tremendous power to make simple changes that can really transform America. Front of package labeling. We can do front of package labeling, inform people about what's in their food like they have in other countries. You know, get out the stuff. And the European Union has, has really clear, clearly identified the most harmful chemicals in our food.

• 1:41:03Speaker 02

  Get them out of our food. I mean, You go to Europe or you go to Canada, you don't see the same product with the same ingredients like Fruit Loops. You know, there's a big 400,000 person petition against Fruit Loops because their their US product was full of all kinds of dyes and colors. Whereas in Canada, they use, you know, there's carrot dye or use, you know, blueberry dye or other things to make it colorful, not not harmful dyes that are banned in other countries. So these companies already do it. Why shouldn't they do it in America? If you get Kraft macaroni cheese in America, it's got dyes in it that they don't allow in Europe. So they do the same companies are making the product. They just do it. Don't do it here.

• 1:41:37Tucker Carlson?

  Because it's cheaper.

• 1:41:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. So we so we need to just enforce these standards and we should adopt the precautionary principle. You know, we shouldn't allow things in our food that we don't know are healthy or that we don't know are are good for you. If they're harmful, we should know about it. So the study should be done to prove that they're safe and effective, rather than just approving them and then waiting and seeing if they're harmful and then taking them off the market, which is kind of what we do is it's different than the precautionary principle, which is, you know, you're guilty until proven innocent. Here, you're innocent to proven guilty, which is fine in the court of law for a human being, but not for a food additive or chemical that could harm human health.

• 1:42:14Tucker Carlson?

  What do you do about doctors? I haven't been to the doctor in a long time because I'm so distressed because I've seen so many doctors recklessly prescribe drugs that have destroyed people's lives.

• 1:42:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:25Tucker Carlson?

  Adderall or benzodiazepines or SSRIs, vaccines, all this stuff. It's like, it seems like an incredibly reckless group of people. They have no moral authority left from my perspective. But we need doctors with moral authority who practice science. Like, how do you change that?

• 1:42:41Speaker 02

  Listen, I would say, Tucker, that most doctors went into medicine to do good.

• 1:42:44Tucker Carlson?

  I think that's right.

• 1:42:45Speaker 02

  And there's a

• 1:42:47Tucker Carlson?

  It didn't go because it's easy.

• 1:42:48Speaker 02

  I mean, the well meaning are often ill doing and they're caught up in a system that are that is is kind of co-opted them. And I and it took me a while to get deprogrammed.

• 1:42:59Speaker 02

  I was programmed by medical school. I was taught that, you know, this is this is this bastion of science that everything is pure and clean. There's no conflict that everything you read in the scientific paper is true, that that pharmaceuticals are the solution to our problems. I mean, this is what we were taught. And and we were taught

• 1:43:16Tucker Carlson?

  Pharmaceuticals are the solution to our problems?

• 1:43:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, what did the doctor's toolkit? It's a knife and a prescription pad. That's it. Yeah. And if you have cancer, it's radiation, right? So basically, we don't have a hell of a lot of tools. And if you take away a doctor's prescription pad, how do they practice medicine? But I almost never pull out my prescription pad. I don't need to because lifestyle and food are the best drugs on the planet. They're not like drugs. They work better than any other drugs like exercise, diet, sleep. These are profoundly foundational to our health and we have a, we have a, a disease system, not a health system. We have a, we don't have a medical system that's based on the science of creating health. We have a system that's based on the science of diagnosing and treating diseases rather than looking at their causes. So part of the problem is in, is

• 1:44:01Speaker 02

  in education. And I think doctors want to do the right thing and they're frustrated. And I can tell you by being on the inside, because now I'm Cleveland Clinic for 10 years, people come out of the woodwork. Like this is great. We, we want to change. We, we need to understand how to do things differently. Toby Cosgrove, who is this sort of the most visionary CEO in medicine, he was asked by, you know, the Biden administration, the Trump administration, everybody to work for him. He's like, everybody wants him. And he brought Cleveland Clinic to be, you know, the number two center of healthcare in the world. Mayo Clinic, you know, and him, they're in competition. He said, Mayo was what you put on your sandwich. It was very funny. But he, I met him at the World Economic Forum and I said, Toby, what, what if I could empty out half your hospitals and cut your angioplasties and bypasses in half? And they're the number one heart hospital in the world. He said, that would be a great idea. I said, why? You're going to cut your revenue in half? What

• 1:44:45Speaker 02

  are you going to do about that? He said, we'll figure it out. It's the right thing to do. So he invited me to come and, and I would, I mean, like, I didn't want to go to Cleveland and he had a good life. And he says, I want you to come and I'll give you whatever you want, but let's do this. We need to address chronic disease differently. The way we're doing it is wrong. We need to think differently. And he, he gave me carte blanche and we, we built this center. We had, we've done tons of research and we showed that the model works and, and it really gets, you know, gets into the root of the problem. And so there is a shift in medicine. There are doctors who are flocking to this. There are people who are understanding the system is broken, but, but it's, it's a tough sell for some people because they're so brainwashed. It's like if the earth is flat, you can convince the earth is flat and you can't convince people otherwise. And, you know, we're still arguing over things like evolution, you know, 150 years later. I mean,

• 1:45:28Speaker 02

  We're still arguing over the worth is flat. There's people who are flat earthers. So this is a problem in medicine. There's a scientific paradigm change that needs to happen. And doctors are starting to get that this is true. And I think it's, it's, it's not that they're trying to do something harmful or bad. They're just stuck in a system and they need to get liberated. And, and I met with Kathleen Sebelius when I was going around trying to get these policies in Obamacare around lifestyle change. Said, this is a great idea. You know, if we create these lifestyle change programs for Medicare, people are going to get better. They're healthier. We're going to reduce healthcare costs and healthcare outcomes. She said, but who's going to know how to do it? I said, don't worry about that because if you pay for it, people will figure it out. If you pay for an angioplasty, if you pay for an angioplasty, doctors are going to learn how to do angioplasties.

• 1:46:10Speaker 02

  Right? You don't have to worry about that. If you pay for a lifestyle intensive change program that works better than, I mean, this woman I was telling you about, she, she, she had $20,000 a co-pay. I don't know what her other medications cause for the insurance or the healthcare system. Plus she was in and out of the hospital all the time. Should we probably save the healthcare system a million bucks? I got paid $200 for the visit. We don't get the benefit as doctors for doing the right thing. We get benefit for doing the wrong thing. We get benefit for paying more, I mean, for doing more, not doing the right thing. So it's a reimbursement based system based on fee for service and throughput, not based on outcomes. Imagine if you were making cars and, and you had a car company that produced cars that didn't work.

• 1:46:54Speaker 02

  Or they got, you know, you drove off the lot and they just fell apart after a few years, or they had to come back constantly to get fixed every month. You wouldn't have a car company, but that's what we do in medicine. That's what we do in medicine. We have, we have a system that doesn't really fix the problem and people, you know, are not, are not, are not actually getting the solutions that the science says work, like the things we've been talking about on the show. So I think we have a historic opportunity now. I mean, it's fraught, right? There's going to be a trillion, there's trillions of dollars at stake here, Tucker, trillions of dollars in the food industry and the ag industry. The fast food companies, all these companies are, are, are going to be frightened about this. And they, they are already circling the wagons. They're already coming around Washington, working on discrediting everybody in this, in this administration.

• 1:47:39Speaker 02

  They're pushing back hard because they, because they know day of reckoning is coming. And I, I think it's time. I mean, the American people should not be the victims of this system. Like I said, 93% of us are somewhere in that spectrum of pre-diabetes to type 2 diabetes. That's frightening to me as a doctor. I mean, that, that's just like what, when I was, when I was in medical school, this wasn't a problem. There was no juvenile diabetes that where kids had type 2 diabetes. This doesn't exist.

• 1:48:05Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:06Speaker 02

  And this is, I'm not that old. I mean, old, I'm not that old. I'm still walking.

• 1:48:10Tucker Carlson?

  Look at the pictures of Woodstock from August of 69.

• 1:48:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:13Tucker Carlson?

  You know?

• 1:48:13Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:48:14Tucker Carlson?

  150,000 shirtless.

• 1:48:16Speaker 02

  You were there, right?

• 1:48:16Tucker Carlson?

  Young Americans. It's the year I was born. Uh, and you can see the ribs all over.

• 1:48:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. You know, so this is not a genetic problem. You've got, you know, scientists from Harvard saying this obesity is genetic. It's not. I mean, there are genetic predispositions.

• 1:48:29Tucker Carlson?

  What is that?

• 1:48:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:30Tucker Carlson?

  And what is the celebration of unhealth that you've seen for the last four years? And attacking people who try to stay fit is right wing. That it's a political category to be healthy.

• 1:48:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:40Tucker Carlson?

  What is that?

• 1:48:41Speaker 02

  I mean, the body positive movement or you mean?

• 1:48:43Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, it's the most negative thing I've ever seen. Of course, it's mislabeled like everything.

• 1:48:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:47Tucker Carlson?

  How is it positive to encourage people to be unhealthy?

• 1:48:50Speaker 02

  I mean, you know, do you know there was a number, I think it was in the?

• 1:48:54Tucker Carlson?

  Like, who's paying for that?

• 1:48:55Speaker 02

  It was the Washington Post or Wall Street Journal. They did a whole sort of series of articles on how the food industry has sort of hijacked the, uh, the media. So they talked about how 40% of the nutritionists who are on social media are paid by the food industry to promote false concepts like, don't worry about how many calories you're eating. Eat whatever you want, indulge yourself, you know? It's, it's really quite striking how, how deliberate their actions are. And, and so I think, I think the sad, the sad thing is that people are, are actually been manipulated by the food system in a way that they can't.

• 1:49:27Tucker Carlson?

  40% of the nutritionists on social media are paid.

• 1:49:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:49:31Tucker Carlson?

  By food companies.

• 1:49:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, this was an expose that was, I think it was in the, uh, Washington Post. And it was, was like. And you see it and it's and so the they're they're they're not

• 1:49:40Tucker Carlson?

  Sarah Lee is paying nutritionists.

• 1:49:42Speaker 02

  I don't know if it's Sarah Lee or who it is, but it's it's, you know, I mean, forty percent of the budget of the American Academy Nutrition Dietetics is paid for by the food industry. And they have panels where you've got people from McDonald's and Coca-Cola on the panels.

• 1:49:55Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so you're saying that most physicians want to do good in the world and help people. But if you're, I'm sorry, if you're a nutritionist taking money from, you know, the baked goods in industry.

• 1:50:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not good. I mean, I

• 1:50:09Tucker Carlson?

  You must know that you're corrupt because that's corrupt. It's so obviously corrupt.

• 1:50:12Speaker 02

  It I guess so.

• 1:50:14Tucker Carlson?

  I'm not taking money from George Soros.

• 1:50:15Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:50:15Tucker Carlson?

  And if I were, I would I would know that I was corrupt.

• 1:50:17Speaker 02

  Right, exactly. So it's it's it's it's how the system's rigged and and unfortunately.

• 1:50:22Tucker Carlson?

  The people participating in that system are also culpable. Sorry.

• 1:50:25Speaker 02

  I think so. I mean, I think, you know, they're they're, I think, for sure, those nutritionists, I think doctors are stuck because they they want to do the right thing. They don't have the education of what to do. They don't know how to do it. And they're they're only told one thing, which is these drugs work for these problems and give these prescriptions. And like I said at the beginning, we've seen dramatic rises in all chronic diseases and an even more dramatic rise in the use of prescription medications for those diseases, which were not getting better. We're forty eighth life expectancy. We spend more than double any other nation. On Joe Rogan, I gave a slide to a friend of mine, Callie, and he gave it to Trump. He gave it to somebody else to give it to Trump that he used on Joe Rogan, which showed, you know, the life expectancy in America and the costs of our healthcare expenditures were completely kind of off off the chart.

• 1:51:09Speaker 02

  So so life expectancy is going down. Other countries are high. We're spending twice as much as anybody else.

• 1:51:16Tucker Carlson?

  It must be nice to live long enough to be vindicated. You know, Van Gogh never got that, but you have.

• 1:51:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I listen, I'm optimistic, Tucker. I think we're in a moment where where the country is ready for change, where the country understands we have this health crisis where they're willing to sort of make changes. And I think if if if the politicians in Congress understand these issues, I think they'll make they'll make the right choices. I think if they have the the the support of the American people, which I think they they do, they can make choices that are difficult and and and often against the people who are funding their campaigns or funding for funding their super PACs. And, you know, we have to realize we have a bought and paid for system and and it's unfortunate, but I think that the problem's gotten big enough. We have to face it and deal with it.

• 1:51:59Tucker Carlson?

  Dr. Mark Hyman, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

• 1:52:02Speaker 02

  My pleasure.

• 1:52:05Tucker Carlson?

  Thanks for listening to the Tucker Carlson Show. If you enjoyed it, you can go to tuckercarlson.com to see everything that we have made. The complete library. TuckerCarlson.com.