Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird

Sue Bird is a former WNBA basketball player and a five-time Olympic gold medalist. Megan Rapinoe is a former soccer player and an Olympic gold medalist. Sue and Megan join the Armchair Expert to discuss growing up in different socioeconomic cultures, whether or not parents should let their kids win against them, and the relationships between athletes on professional sports team. Sue, Megan, and Dax talk about how impactful their injuries were to their mental games, why sports are so addicting, and how much pride they had representing America in the Olympics. Sue and Megan explain what makes a win rewarding to them, how showing emotion is viewed in athletics, and how important storytelling is to growing a fanbase. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, Experts on Expert. We have two physical phenoms today as our experts.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  We sure do.

• 0:07Dax Shepard?

  Sue Bird and Megan Rapinoe. Sue, of course, is a WNBA champion and Olympic gold medalist. Megan is a two-time World Cup champion, Olympic gold medalist, and bestselling author. They've got a new podcast that's out on Wednesdays weekly called A Touch More, the Podcast. So I encourage everyone to listen to that. This was very fun. Couples are fun.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  They are fun. They are fun. And they have such a great rapport, and they're so interesting, and it's a subject we don't know that much about.

• 0:36Dax Shepard?

  And they have a great Rapinoe. In addition to their rapport. Please enjoy Sue Bird and Megan Rapinoe. We get support from Quince.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about the fact that the holidays are already here? It's crazy. I feel like I blinked and now we're in gifting season, which I'm not really mad about because I do love giving gifts. And Quince is making it so easy to find something great for everyone on my list, including myself, because let's be honest, self-gifting is a love language.

• 1:05Dax Shepard?

  Quince is seriously the gift that keeps on giving. Their high-quality staples are made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, 14-karat gold, and Italian leather. Full-on luxury quality at prices that won't wreck your holiday budget.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  It's the dream. The cashmere sweater, starting at $60, down jackets, wool outerwear, cashmere accessories. You and everyone on your list are staying cozy and looking incredible all season long.

• 1:32Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm gonna tell you this. It just got chilly for the first time this year in California, and I'm so excited. And I'm wearing my Quince cashmere right now.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 1:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I am going to gift this to some of my friends. I hope they're not listening.

• 1:44Speaker 01

  Quince is also more than clothing. They've got fine jewelry for your significant other, leather bags for your bestie, hotel-quality bedding to set up your guest rooms, chef-grade cookware. That's an amazing thing they offer here, and it's such a good gift because people don't like buying cookware for themselves, but it's very important. And they also have five-star luggage, another good gift that people don't like buying for themselves.

• 2:06Dax Shepard?

  Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. This episode is brought to you by McDonald's. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Medium Fries and a Drink is now $8. Okay, I need to talk about something that doesn't get enough respect. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese. This is not a casual burger. This is a crafted burger. We're talking 100% fresh beef cooked right when you order it.

• 2:50Dax Shepard?

  No artificial flavors, no fillers, no preservatives, just beef doing what beef is supposed to do. And here's a detail I love. There's a cowbell sound in the kitchen. When somebody orders a Quarter Pounder with Cheese, a cowbell goes off and the Grill Master throws a fresh patty down. That's like having your own entrance music at McDonald's. I want a cowbell for everything in life. The onions are hand topped by someone who just knows the right amount. Two slices of cheese laid out in a star pattern, so every single bite gets cheese. And two pickles side by side, so you're never in a pickle desert. Every bite is accounted for. Someone engineered this thing with love. I love a Quarter Pounder.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  Me too, that's my order. It's a Quarter Pounder with cheese. I love it. I didn't know they put so much effort that they did a star formation. I should have known because you can taste it when there's effort.

• 3:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, the love. Don't tell anyone this, but I'll put two of them back.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not surprised.

• 3:46Dax Shepard?

  The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Fries and a Drink, now $8 for a limited time only, only at McDonald's. For a limited time only, prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska, and California, and for delivery. Fresh beef not available in Alaska and Hawaii. Offer not valid for delivery.

• 4:21Dax Shepard?

  Oh my god.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Are you alright?

• 4:23Dax Shepard?

  Well, let's see if I can recover. I mean, that's a big one.

• 4:27Dax Shepard?

  That's the most egregious in seven years.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it happens.

• 4:31Speaker 02

  It happens.

• 4:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  It will happen.

• 4:32Dax Shepard?

  But not today. That was Sue and Megan.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  I know.

• 4:36Dax Shepard?

  Athletes have to be on time.

• 4:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:38Dax Shepard?

  The coach will kill ya.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  Oh god, that is true.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  It's like drilled in our existence.

• 4:43Dax Shepard?

  Wait, let me take in your shirt, Love and Rockets.

• 4:45Speaker 02

  I just got it.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's cool.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  I mean, I overpaid for it, but it's fine.

• 4:48Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I was listening to one of y'all's episodes and I thought for a second we were gonna have a huge issue between Monica and y'all.

• 4:55Speaker 02

  Oh, what is it?

• 4:57Dax Shepard?

  Because one of their

• 4:58Speaker 02

  Let's fight.

• 4:59Dax Shepard?

  sponsors is The Row.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Stop.

• 5:02Dax Shepard?

  But it's not that row.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  I was like, it is? Is it? I hope so.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Are they sponsoring us? Everyone's eyes just got huge. I would love to be sponsored by The Row.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  Do too.

• 5:14Dax Shepard?

  I think the row you guys were promoting was some area of some town where there's lots of shops.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  Oh, down here, there's a row.

• 5:21Speaker 02

  I don't even know.

• 5:22Dax Shepard?

  I think it's like an area. It was like, visit this and this. But when I first heard The Row, I was like, oh, Monica's gonna be really upset.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  We love The Row too, though.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 5:31Dax Shepard?

  Dream sponsor.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  I don't think the twins sponsor anyone or give discounts or give a fuck about anyone, honestly.

• 5:36Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  They sure don't. I've heard I've heard about their friends and family discount. It's quite minimal.

• 5:43Dax Shepard?

  Oh, even a friend or a family?

• 5:45Speaker 01

  I think they do have it probably just for Elizabeth Olsen.

• 5:48Dax Shepard?

  Elizabeth, what's she paying?

• 5:49Speaker 01

  She gets 10% off.

• 5:51Dax Shepard?

  10%?

• 5:52Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't, it's not 10%. Probably.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  But probably?

• 5:55Dax Shepard?

  If my siblings, you, uh, you have a twin?

• 5:58Speaker 02

  I have a twin, yeah.

• 6:00Dax Shepard?

  It's scary interviewing two people and learning so much about two different people.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  Dating two people.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, twin life.

• 6:08Dax Shepard?

  Rachel.

• 6:09Speaker 02

  Rachel, yeah.

• 6:10Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's weird.

• 6:11Dax Shepard?

  You guys are fraternal.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:12Dax Shepard?

  If your twin sister Rachel started, that's not a good comp, because it's Elizabeth we're talking about. You would expect to get way more than 10% off your sister, right?

• 6:21Speaker 02

  I would expect it all for free. Yeah, 3.99% for sure. I'm coming in there and you need to tell everyone at every store in the world who I am and I'm just like, as if it's a closet, yeah.

• 6:31Dax Shepard?

  The sister's here! Sister, everybody.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like the early releases.

• 6:35Dax Shepard?

  Times a million.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  And you get the hem, but it happens that day. They get it all.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  They need to be on site.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 6:41Speaker 02

  No, I'm getting everything for free.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  I know. Aren't they so cool there? They're so elusive. Do you like elusive? Or are you like, that's too much? I mean, obviously like the row, but in general elusive.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  To a certain extent, but sometimes I'm like, well, how do you get it? You know?

• 6:55Speaker 01

  I know.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  I guess that's the point. It's the work. I'm on the outside. Sometimes when it's too mu- I mean, like the restaurant situation. We're talking about with reservations in New York sometimes.

• 7:03Dax Shepard?

  How long have you guys lived in New York?

• 7:05Speaker 02

  Just a year. I'm from there originally.

• 7:07Dax Shepard?

  Long Island.

• 7:07Speaker 02

  Long Island, yeah. So it's like a coming home, which is really nice. Megan always wanted to live there, so I was like, great.

• 7:13Dax Shepard?

  You're from Redding?

• 7:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:14Dax Shepard?

  Okay, Redding's a vibe. Let's talk about Redding for a second.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  I'm the only person that ever say that.

• 7:19Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, I've been there for sure. I think when you think of California, you think of LA and San Francisco and super progressive and liberal. But Redding's kind of blue collar.

• 7:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:31Dax Shepard?

  It's not, but people would think of with California.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  No, honestly, whenever I tell people from California, they're like, cool. And I'm like, not that one. And then they go north and they're like, cool. And I'm like, not that either. They're like, what else is there?

• 7:44Dax Shepard?

  Do you surf, redwoods or snowboarding?

• 7:47Speaker 02

  I know, Redding is really interesting because it's situated right on I-5. So it's this sort of throughway all up and down the West Coast.

• 7:55Dax Shepard?

  In the meth pipeline.

• 7:56Speaker 02

  Totally. In the meth pipeline. Drug use is especially historically totally rampant, especially meth. But then it's right next to the Golden Triangle, which is the best weed in the world.

• 8:06Dax Shepard?

  But also gnarly shit happening in the Golden Triangle.

• 8:09Speaker 02

  It's progressive in the like anarchist, zero government kind of. So it's like where hippies meet no government and you're like, what's happening here?

• 8:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, sovereign citizens meet hippies.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  And then there is also traditional granola hippie vibes going on in and around Redding. I think a lot of people go there to like be left alone or have gone there to be left alone. But then it's also just a very normal conservative. And then there's like this evangelical church has gotten really big up there, Bethel, which I don't fuck with at all. And they have gotten into like conversion therapy and mysticism. And it's to me, Bad News Bears. And it's just a wild place.

• 8:45Dax Shepard?

  You have super fun eyes. That's just an earmark. Who are we having where we realize their magic power? Oh, it was Heidi Klum.

• 8:54Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 8:55Dax Shepard?

  Where the eyes are somehow a third mouth. They're very expressive. Would you agree as someone who stares in her eyes a lot?

• 9:02Speaker 02

  Her face is very expressive.

• 9:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and the eyes almost can smile or something.

• 9:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, you tell a lot with your facial expressions, for sure. I know, good and bad. Yeah. Or like, it could be goofy, it could be kooky.

• 9:12Dax Shepard?

  Your face betrays you a lot?

• 9:14Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah. I don't think she minds people knowing that. Yeah, true, that's true.

• 9:18Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you're from a very huge family.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  Huge, yeah.

• 9:21Dax Shepard?

  What did mom and dad do in Reading?

• 9:23Speaker 02

  My mom was a waitress for the whole time we lived there. She actually just retired a couple of years ago, Jack's Grill, which is like a really cool, sort of simple steakhouse bar. It was one of the nicer restaurants, but it's not like nice. Saltines on the table when you're there. Yeah, no like white tablecloth or anything. And then my dad mostly worked in construction.

• 9:42Dax Shepard?

  And were they born in Reading? Or were they part of some diaspora hippie anarchist?

• 9:47Speaker 02

  Not even hippie anarch. I honestly, I don't even know.

• 9:50Dax Shepard?

  The car broke down in Reading on the way up the 5?

• 9:52Speaker 02

  They were in San Diego, and I was like, what happened?

• 9:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 9:56Speaker 02

  And then when they got together, they moved to Carson City. I think my mom's mom was sick at the time. They went to take care of her. And then I don't know how they ended up in Reading. I still have a lot of questions of what happened there, and then they never left.

• 10:07Dax Shepard?

  Okay, and then seven siblings, six siblings?

• 10:09Speaker 02

  You need a tree. It's like five or seven.

• 10:12Dax Shepard?

  Yes!

• 10:12Speaker 02

  My oldest sister is actually my aunt. It's my mom's youngest sister who she raised. And my youngest brother is my nephew. It's my brother's child that my parents raised.

• 10:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay, okay.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  I say seven, it's really five.

• 10:25Dax Shepard?

  Who cares?

• 10:25Speaker 02

  I just leave it out there for people.

• 10:26Dax Shepard?

  It's a big Christmas, is what I'm imagining.

• 10:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:30Dax Shepard?

  Oh my gosh.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  Who has one sister and she's like, whoa, what the fuck is this? Yeah, that's a big old chain. No, it's great.

• 10:37Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's kind of what I'm hoping to establish, is it does feel like opposites attract in a lot of fun ways. Just learning the seven Reading versus Long Island. Russian Jewish father, one older sister. What's the vibe in Long Island in 1980?

• 10:54Speaker 02

  What movie was it, Now and Then? It's kind of like that, like all the houses are the same. You can ride your bike everywhere, like pretty chill, middle class.

• 11:04Dax Shepard?

  What little pocket of Long Island?

• 11:06Speaker 02

  Tsayasit. So it's in Nassau County, North Shore.

• 11:09Dax Shepard?

  Any other famous alumni?

• 11:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:11Dax Shepard?

  Who?

• 11:11Speaker 02

  Natalie Portman.

• 11:12Speaker 01

  Oh shit!

• 11:13Dax Shepard?

  What's her last name though?

• 11:15Speaker 02

  Herschel.

• 11:15Dax Shepard?

  Herschel, yeah.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. So Natalie was a year younger than I was.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  She went to your high school?

• 11:19Dax Shepard?

  She switched high schools, yeah?

• 11:21Speaker 02

  She did. I also did, yeah. So we only went to high school one or two years.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  Whoa, how bizarre.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  She came in, I left like a year or two later.

• 11:29Dax Shepard?

  But she had already been in the professional?

• 11:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. So she came into school, we're like, oh shit, that's the actress.

• 11:34Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great, we can do a parallel with Caitlin right now.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:36Dax Shepard?

  That was the episode I listened to.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 11:37Dax Shepard?

  Basketball player. Were people gunning for her?

• 11:39Speaker 02

  No.

• 11:40Dax Shepard?

  No, they were excited.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Honestly, the way she is now when you're around her, almost unassuming, just kind of chill, same thing. Obviously, was just in a blockbuster movie, if you will, and just totally chill.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  I can't even explain it. I don't want to downplay who she was, but at the same time, it was like, she wore sweats to school, just so chill.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  Just another kid.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  Just another kid.

• 12:01Dax Shepard?

  She wasn't walking around like a movie star in ninth grade.

• 12:03Speaker 02

  Not at all, not at all.

• 12:04Dax Shepard?

  And you come into sports because your older sister is interested, yeah? What's the age gap there?

• 12:09Speaker 02

  Five years.

• 12:10Dax Shepard?

  Same, I have the same gap.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  It's a lot when you're younger.

• 12:12Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so I'm gonna project onto you.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 12:16Dax Shepard?

  Did you have this experience where, in your mind, you were like, well, I'm the weakest, worst at everything in the world, and then I started competing with my peers, my age, and I was like, oh, I'm kind of strong. Like, cause I'd only been wrestling with this dude five years older than me my whole life, and then when I got around people my age, I was like, oh, I'm a good skateboarder. I thought I was a terrible skateboarder.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  No, not really.

• 12:40Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  But only because we had, very quickly, different lanes. She's way smarter than I am. Academics was her thing. She also played sports, but sports was my thing.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:51Speaker 02

  And so we didn't have a lot of competition in sports. I probably was beating her like very early. Do you have an older brother?

• 12:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's different with boys. Like, we weren't wrestling. It wasn't like a physical...

• 12:59Dax Shepard?

  I beat him up at 14 when he was 19. It was the greatest day of my life.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  I bet, yeah. That's how I felt when I first like scored on my dad.

• 13:05Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, my dad's 6'3", I'm only 4'1/2". Five nine, so who knows what I was then, five foot. And when I finally scored on my dad while we were just like shooting at the park, that was like a big day.

• 13:14Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so this would be a good advice column moment for you. Parent wise, so I struggle with this because I have two little girls and I play a lot of things with them. And I was like, how much am I gonna let them? I wanna, you know, I wanna give them the taste.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  Don't let them win.

• 13:27Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  Really?

• 13:28Dax Shepard?

  Don't let them win. That's hardcore.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Don't you think they should feel the win once so that they chase it?

• 13:34Speaker 02

  No, you want them to get it on their own. Because when you earn that, that's yours forever.

• 13:39Dax Shepard?

  Wow, okay.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  I'm not saying if it was basketball, it's not like you gotta block their shot crazy all the time.

• 13:43Dax Shepard?

  Every time, goaltending every time.

• 13:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, decimate them, but no, you don't have to like let them. Yeah, this actually happened. Very sad. With Rachel and I and our older brother, Michael, he kicked our ass in basketball. He's like 10 years old and that's like more, he's probably 15 years old, to be honest. He's so much older than us. You don't even know, you still don't know anything about this.

• 14:04Dax Shepard?

  He's either my uncle or my son.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, one of them, so we don't know. And we played him like two V one, we were probably 14 years old. He was barefoot in the street, he tore his feet up so bad, he had to put like maxi pads on his feet. And he kicked our ass and he gloated about it. And we were just like, first of all, whatever, you're fucking grown man.

• 14:23Dax Shepard?

  Loser.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  You're gonna beat us, but we were pissed. Like, he could very easily let us win, we were just like, no. We had to try our hardest. I mean, we didn't beat him and I'm sure we took it out on some other kids at school. Probably took it out on our basketball team.

• 14:35Dax Shepard?

  Okay, here's where I'm doing it. This feels right. They just started playing basketball.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  How old are they?

• 14:40Dax Shepard?

  Nine and 11.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 14:41Dax Shepard?

  We'll play pig.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 14:42Dax Shepard?

  We're not up to horse yet. We'll play pig, A, I'm shooting close so they can make it. I'm not like out above the arc trying to make it. It's not a fun game if they have zero and they're pig every time. Go ahead. Not the move.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know. I'm like trying to think, when I play with my nieces, same, I don't shoot like deep threes off the dribble. I'm not like doing that.

• 15:03Dax Shepard?

  She has the best three point shooting percentage in NCAA history, I think, 48.4.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 15:10Dax Shepard?

  That's an impossible three point percentage.

• 15:13Speaker 02

  That's so cool. Yeah, I played on good teams.

• 15:14Dax Shepard?

  No, that's not how that works. That's good because you're on it. I don't think that would affect your percentage.

• 15:21Speaker 02

  I'll tell you why I shot well in college. So I was injured my freshman year, basically missed the whole year. So I really only played three years in college. And the fall of my sophomore year, it's very common in preseason, you have these 6 a.m. workouts. So we had them three times a week. After every 6 a.m. workout, he would make me shoot threes. It wasn't crazy, like 30, 45 minutes, but like three times a week for two months. Just you? Yeah, me and a coach, and then he would watch.

• 15:43Dax Shepard?

  And I'm sure you don't have the actual metrics, but how much did your percentage change just from that exercise of a year?

• 15:49Speaker 02

  In shooting percentages, if it goes up 2%, that's ginormous. I bet if you looked at my freshman year to my sophomore year, I bet there was easily a 15% jump. Wow.

• 15:58Dax Shepard?

  I'll just add that Jordan never, ever scored more than 39% of his two-point shots, somewhere in that range.

• 16:05Speaker 02

  You don't need him on.

• 16:06Dax Shepard?

  We love Last Dance, but not after meeting you.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  We already have Sue. We can't bring him on. Embarrassing. But I'll tell you what, he didn't take it easy on me. I'm answering your question.

• 16:13Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 16:14Speaker 02

  He was a pain in my ass, to be honest.

• 16:15Dax Shepard?

  You know, my kids aren't professional sports bound either. So you're kind of like, what's the point of this? Are we supposed to have fun?

• 16:20Speaker 02

  Well, at what age is that determined if they're going to be professional sports bound or not?

• 16:26Dax Shepard?

  And even a broader question that I think is really relevant is, do you think the parent has to lead it, or do you think the kid has to lead it? I'm of the opinion that the kid's going to demonstrate that that's for them or not.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 16:36Dax Shepard?

  You do agree?

• 16:37Speaker 02

  100%. Yeah, I totally agree. I think that's both of our experiences. Yeah. There's, of course, times where they're tired, or they're being a little shit, or whatever, and you're like, no, these are things that are important. My parents were always like, you guys lead, but the one thing they were like, you're going to try hard. If we half-assed or something, they were like, oh, no, no, no, we're not putting all this time and effort in for that. And there's certain life things that you've got to teach your kids, but I think in general, it kind of shows itself. In kindergarten, we were like busting kids' ass in kindergarten. Very early. We're the most athletic kids in kindergarten. Like, from a young age, you're probably going to be showing some signs of athletic talent and aptitude, just like if you were, you know...

• 17:15Dax Shepard?

  Music, anywhere.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 17:16Dax Shepard?

  But your family in particular, they were committing a ton of time, they were driving you like two and a half hours to go. Compete somewhere.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  Sacramento.

• 17:25Dax Shepard?

  Sacramento.

• 17:26Speaker 02

  In the Bay Area.

• 17:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so I guess when they do show that interest, you're just there to support, i.e. drive them five hours.

• 17:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. They honestly had very frank conversations with us of like, if you two want to do this, great, we'll sacrifice our whole life for this. No problem. No, they were like, we'll do this, but we're not going to be dragging you through it. They made that very clear and we were like, no, we want to do it. And they were like, okay, let's go.

• 17:52Dax Shepard?

  How did the competition between you and Rachel play out?

• 17:55Speaker 02

  I think when we were younger, it was in a play sense. We just played everything together all the time. I think we made it similar to your relationship with your older brother. It was like, we made each other better because we could go without any insecurity as hard as we wanted at each other. And we played one-on-one baseball, one-on-one football, one-on-one basketball, one-on-one, like we played one-on-one everything. Ghost runners galore. It was like you're batting and running and hitting all at the same time. And we didn't really have that jealousy of each other. We more so were like, we're playing this together. We always played different positions. We went through different times where like, she was a lot better than me, pretty much until midway through high school. I feel like I hit puberty kind of later. She was always much better and more confident. Midway through high school, maybe like my junior year,

• 18:39Speaker 02

  I feel like I grew and grew into myself, but we were both great.

• 18:43Dax Shepard?

  The best two of your team in high school?

• 18:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, of our team.

• 18:46Dax Shepard?

  How about when you went to Portland?

• 18:47Speaker 02

  Portland was a little bit more difficult, honestly, for both of us. We both had a lot of injuries. Rachel was severely anemic her freshman year and she didn't know it and it was undiagnosed. So it was kind of like a shame on her thing of like, you're not working hard enough or you're not fit. But really, she was severely anemic. So all through her first year, it was really difficult.

• 19:07Dax Shepard?

  And were they able to treat that really quickly?

• 19:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, she had to get iron infusions. She was in like the cancer ward, getting like bags of iron. Yeah, it was really crazy. Her levels were at like one and two, her hemoglobin levels. It was really bad. She actually went a season before I did. So I deferred my first season because I was playing in the youth World Cup. So she played a season before and then I came. She was really struggling with her anemia. I was playing and then. My sophomore year and junior year, I was out with knee injuries. Her junior and senior year, sophomore and junior year, she was out. So we really only played together, basically our senior season, which was great. She played forward and I was a winger and we had a lot of fun together. But it was hard because we were kind of parallel pathing these really difficult things. And we were trying to figure ourselves out and had no language to do that.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  We're twins and the world's comparison when it comes to twins is difficult. No matter what, you're always going to be compared to each other because it's like, how are the twins? How are the babies?

• 20:04Speaker 01

  It's such a story for people.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  You want to know everything.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so it was, I think, hard for both of us in ways to really understand and navigate that. And now like 20 years later, we're starting to talk about it. So it's good.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 20:16Dax Shepard?

  Well, you're like a married couple in that you have a shared identity, way more than just normal siblings do.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 20:23Dax Shepard?

  How does that compound coming out? Does it?

• 20:27Speaker 02

  Well, it compounded it because I outed us both to my mom. Let me tell you how I compounded that. Yeah.

• 20:35Dax Shepard?

  Put it in the compounder?

• 20:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. I have a tendency to be spontaneous in the best of ways, but it's also really impulsive. So I'm working on integrating that.

• 20:43Dax Shepard?

  Also, just what if your mom asked you, is Rachel also gay? And you went?

• 20:46Speaker 01

  It's your eyes.

• 20:47Dax Shepard?

  Your eyes. Your eyes did a whole thing.

• 20:49Speaker 02

  I think it was your mouth too this time.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  Came right out of my mouth. I just honestly thought my mom would be like, well, obviously we know. When I figured it out for myself, I was like, oh my God, this is kind of embarrassing, Meghan. This is really obvious. But so I didn't really have the struggle with it. And so when I told my mom, I think it was just hard for her in the beginning. This is not the dream that she saw, not that it was bad. It was just she was like unprepared for it.

• 21:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  And I was like, well, Rachel's gay too. Obviously this is fine and we're both doing it.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Oh my God.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  So that was tougher and I think she struggled with it a little bit more. And she was kind of struggling with her religious views and she was in this sort of evangelical, fake progressive church that was honestly just kind of hateful and really conversion therapy vibe. So I think she was really struggling and struggling to find herself. And then I outed her to my mom. So I'd Really sorry, Rachel. I'm still sorry to this day for that.

• 21:46Dax Shepard?

  Well, my intuition would be that you would come out to Rachel first. And then also, I could see where you'd come out to her last because of this shared identity thing.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was almost like we were kind of figuring ourselves out at the same time. It's like when you're so close, you can't see it. And so we were both doing it at the same time, and it was confusing. And we both went to college for the first time. It was like we were in Portland. It's so progressive compared to Reading.

• 22:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  Everything was just new, coming from such a small place.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Is it interesting for you that you had this shared identity? And in some ways, you two have a shared identity, also very public shared identity. It's like in some ways, you've hopped.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know. Yeah. I know, I'm codependent. I'm working on it. I'm still a monogamist, I know.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  But we just have patterns, right?

• 22:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally. We talk about this a lot. I think especially since we've both retired. I think when we were both playing, it was just naturally separated. Now we have to work really hard to have separate realms. And it's been hard, and we're figuring that out. It's really only a year into both of us being retired.

• 22:48Dax Shepard?

  No, this seems like one of the most dangerous situations possible. Because I have a few friends that are either married to professional athletes, or I know a couple. Almost universally, retirement's rough for so many reasons. And maybe you'll tell us about them. But if you just take the schedule, your whole life is scheduled.

• 23:06Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 23:06Dax Shepard?

  And has been for decades, and then it's not. It's so disruptive.

• 23:11Speaker 02

  Very. I know, honestly, we just interviewed Alex Morgan recently. She also retired. And she brought up this one element about showering. So to really make your point about scheduling, when you're an athlete, your shower is built in. You're showering after the game. You're showering after practice. You really don't have to think about showering. And now all of a sudden, it was like 24 hours are going by, and I'm like, I haven't showered. So even down to the shower.

• 23:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I bet.

• 23:38Speaker 02

  It's disruptive, and this change is disruptive.

• 23:40Dax Shepard?

  And you build on top of it, or many athletes, right, build on top of it. Then their own weird routine that is kind of superstitious and control-oriented, right? So it's like also this other thing was scaffold on top of it, but the Foundation has disappeared. So now your own little weird rituals too are probably changing.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like you kind of have to be a little psycho to be a professional athlete. You have to have that routine. The routine is great because it's so structured, but it's also really unhealthy in a lot of ways because you're forcing yourself to do the exact same thing every day. They disguise it with words like discipline. Right. It's really like crazy.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  It's controlled.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  Oh, very.

• 24:20Dax Shepard?

  What I would imagine is it's a great distraction from your whole life. Like it's a bubble you enter at a certain time of the day. And you can only focus on a single thing and ignore all the childhood stuff.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  You're rewarded for things that aren't necessarily going to help you in your personal life.

• 24:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Right.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  I feel like when you retire, you have to come face to face with that in a big way, or at least I did. Yeah.

• 24:43Dax Shepard?

  And then the other thing I hear is really disorienting is being the member of a team. I think from the outside, I remember I watched a great doc on Brett Favre and he got very depressed after retirement and all these things happened. And people would think it's like, oh, they miss the attention. And it's like, that's not it at all. They miss a purpose. They miss the team, I hear is the big thing.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  Very safe on a team. I always say teams are so interesting because you will simultaneously know who your teammates are dating. For us, I'm like, I know when my teammates have their period, who needs a tampon? And then at the same time, I don't even know if all my teammates had siblings. I don't know if I know their hometowns all the time. So yeah, you're like simultaneously so intimate and then also not. But it is really safe because that intimacy is automatic. Once someone comes on your team, that's it. You are in lockstep. You got each other's back. If they got traded the next day, you'd be like, see ya. And you wouldn't think twice.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  It's a shared goal and that's like driving the entire thing.

• 25:43Speaker 02

  And it connects you in these really wonderful ways. But I think to your point, when you don't have that, it's been such a safe place. In some ways, it shows up as family. By the way, even with all this intimacy, the differences, you do have very real relationships with your teammates too. The ones you click with do become family, whether it's the end of a season or retirement. All of a sudden you go your separate ways and then you just might not see them for months and months and months.

• 26:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, this is the most literal manifestation of in-group, out-group tribalism, which is like, you're a team, you're a group. It is you against everyone, not even figuratively, it's you against the world. And how about when they depart and you see them again as a competitor?

• 26:22Speaker 01

  That sounds awful and sad.

• 26:23Speaker 02

  It's not.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  Really?

• 26:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, if anything, if it's someone you're cool with, you can't wait to go out to dinner with them. Okay. And then when you're on the court or the field, whatever, you just do it. You compartmentalize very well with that.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  This is exactly the thing that you were talking about that maybe isn't great for life. This level of being able to compartmentalize to such a degree

• 26:41Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  is great in sport, but in life.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  Tough, not great.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Not so great.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  It just doesn't work in life that way to compartmentalize your emotions and the things that you want. You have to ask different questions, even to your point about attention. It's not necessarily the missed attention. It's the very clear value structure for yourself of like, where do I find my worth? In sports, it's like if you're doing X, Y, and Z. It's a meritocracy. Yeah, in sports, it is a meritocracy. Like you know, I have to do this, this, this, and this in order to do this. And then if I do that, then I'm gonna be valued and I feel good about myself and everybody else feels good. And then when you stop playing, it's like, well, where do you find your value? My sister asked me that the other day. How do you even evaluate yourself? Yeah, she was like, where do you find your value? I don't know. I literally was like, I don't think I know yet.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  Assists and goals. Yeah, I'm like, I don't really know. I'm starting to figure out what kind of things I like or even just our relationship to working out and our bodies. Those questions have always just had answers. Yeah. And now it's like we're having to answer all these questions. And for us, we played for a long time. So it's also coming at this time in life. You're 43, about to be 44, I'm 39. It's already the sort of second coming of the existential crisis anyways. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's all coming at that time. And now you're like, well, what even is life? You guys should remodel an apartment and have two kids right now. We did, we remodeled. We did the apartment. The kids were holding, the kids were holding off for now. But the other part that I would just add to that is,

• 28:13Speaker 02

  for me especially, you go from never having your needs in the forefront. I got very comfortable, like my needs don't matter. The team's needs matter. Yeah. As long as I'm servicing Matt, this machine. And then my value gets shown, right? And then I get rewarded. And then you go into your real life and you're like, I have to tell you what my needs are? How do you do that?

• 28:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  How do I do that?

• 28:30Speaker 01

  What are they?

• 28:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, so at 43, well, I retired at 41. I was like, how do I tell even Meghan what my needs are? I don't know how to do this.

• 28:37Speaker 01

  Are you guys in couples therapy?

• 28:39Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 28:40Dax Shepard?

  With Orna?

• 28:41Speaker 02

  No. I love the show, though. We do love the show.

• 28:43Dax Shepard?

  We love it. The hair, I don't know how that disheveled and that perfect.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  I'm like, is it wrapped up and braided?

• 28:52Speaker 02

  She always comes in with something new.

• 28:54Dax Shepard?

  I wonder if there's a method, though. I want to see, is it like a big wild, like a pizza dough? Like you wrap and then it just...

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Sometimes she just has one.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, then she has the braids, yeah.

• 29:03Dax Shepard?

  It's always perfect, never been the same way twice.

• 29:06Speaker 02

  Nope. So true. Oh, we love a couples therapy.

• 29:09Dax Shepard?

  There should be an Instagram account for Orna's hair.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 29:12Dax Shepard?

  If there isn't already, I've never searched.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  We gotta talk to Netflix about that.

• 29:16Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 29:17Speaker 02

  We gotta talk to them.

• 29:17Dax Shepard?

  OK, so you're coming from a much different childhood than you are.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Maybe use names for people who are.

• 29:23Dax Shepard?

  That would have been smart. Sue and Meghan are coming from much different childhoods.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  Our listeners.

• 29:28Dax Shepard?

  I'm not talking about Monica. Yet it's funny, as I read your guys' path through high school and then college, there are these weird overlaps. I would imagine there's this confusing amount of shared experience and completely different experience. I even look at the injuries. Your ACL injury comes in, what, sophomore year?

• 29:46Speaker 02

  Freshman year.

• 29:47Dax Shepard?

  Freshman year, Sue's ACL injury. And then Meghan, you start getting ACL injuries. Now, is everyone just getting ACL injuries at the time? Or is it suspicious that you guys go down?

• 29:56Speaker 02

  Everybody is.

• 29:57Dax Shepard?

  Everyone is.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  Very common. Very common.

• 29:58Dax Shepard?

  To me, that might be the hardest part of doing this. You're mentally convincing yourself you're immortal and invulnerable and all these things. And when one of those pops up, I have to imagine it's way worse mentally than it is physically.

• 30:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. You're dependent on your body in a way that you have no control over. And we always talk about control of the controllables. There's so many cliches in sports, but some of them are true. And you do, you try to control as much as you can. So maybe you eat right, you sleep, you work out a certain way, you make sure you're strong. And yet, you still have no control over it. And yet, you're totally dependent on it because if... You tear your ACL, you hurt your finger, whatever it is, you can't play. And there's your livelihood. But it really didn't stress me out till later in my career.

• 30:39Dax Shepard?

  It didn't. Because what I would hate to find out as I'm starting, like college, the ride's really just starting. Boo, I'm vulnerable to that. Am I always going to be vulnerable to that? Can I still exert? Can I ignore that? Can I convince myself it's actually now been repaired and it's stronger? How does one navigate all those thoughts?

• 30:57Speaker 02

  I mean, in my experience, tearing my ACL my freshman year is the best thing that could have happened to me.

• 31:01Dax Shepard?

  Oh, plot twist.

• 31:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, it woke me up in a way. I think I was very talented, obviously. You know, you don't go to UConn if you're not talented. But I needed something that was going to wake me up to really put me on a track where like, I need to work harder. It was just a reset that I needed. Physically, I was young enough and, you know, you're a little ignorant. You're like, okay, I'll fix this. It'll be fine. I'll move on. You don't understand the magnitude of it. So you're lucky. I was 18 years old, like, I don't fucking know. When I look back, by far the best thing that could have happened, like I said, it just put me on this other track of focus that I really needed. And now I'm not taking it for granted. I'm actually focused on this, what people call a craft now. I wouldn't have called it then, but you're focused on your craft. You're trying to get better. I'm doing the shooting workouts at 6 a.m. I'm not complaining about it. It just put me in a whole other place.

• 31:48Dax Shepard?

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. We get support from no bull. The holidays can get hectic. You finally hit a post summer routine and suddenly you're on hosting duty every week.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  That's when you really need to ground yourself.

• 32:06Dax Shepard?

  Exactly. And that's why I keep my training routine through the holidays. It's the whole no bull idea. There's a no bullshit training brand built around consistency, honesty, and just putting in the work. It's not about adding more pressure to an already packed schedule. It's about having the gear and the habits to move through the season your way. My personal favorite, all three of the shoes are fantastic. The Outwork, the Outwork Flex, and the Drive 2. I like the Drive 2 because it's a hybrid. And I lift, of course, but I also like to do what's called box jumps.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 32:37Dax Shepard?

  Right? I do a lot of jumping onto a little platform and I want a little more flexibility. And boy, Do they deliver?

• 32:43Speaker 01

  And if you're a cardio person and you're running and you also need to be lifting.

• 32:47Dax Shepard?

  And the style is banging. I don't know what to say. Beautiful style, very breathable, very, very comfortable, lots of support. They were built for lifting.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  They also make a great holiday gift. You know, I love gifting, a purposeful one that actually supports someone's goals and routines. And it's not a gift that just ends up in the back of the closet.

• 33:04Dax Shepard?

  Stay stronger than the season. Head to nobolproject.com all holiday season to shop new deals every week. We get support from Skims. Okay, I have a confession. I genuinely love matching pajamas. It's the best part of Christmas morning, really. Everyone in the same matching set, looking ridiculously cute in front of the tree.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  I love matching pajamas. I'm literally going to be in coordinating sets with all my friends this holiday season. Because I got them, spoiler to my friends who are listening, the same Skims pajama set I've been living in. They are so soft and cozy and they look cute. So you can leave the house and go get a late night hot chocolate, be cozy.

• 33:48Dax Shepard?

  It's so great how Skims has sets for everyone too. Women's, men's, kids, even your pets. So nobody in your life has to be left out this year.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  I have a bunch of different pajama sets. One of my favorite is the organic cotton sleep long sleeve set.

• 34:04Dax Shepard?

  Okay, tell me more.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  So comfortable, very chic too. The top is a button down, but very, very soft, easy to sleep in. But as I said before, you can multipurpose this and look super cute.

• 34:17Dax Shepard?

  Hot chocolate runs. It's like the pajamas we grew up in, except without the scratchy polyester that made opening presents feel more like a hot yoga class that nobody signed up for.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  All the nostalgia, none of the discomfort. Shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select Armtrac Expert in the drop down menu that follows. If you're looking for the perfect gifts for everyone on your list, the Skims Holiday Shop is now open at skims.com.

• 34:46Dax Shepard?

  This episode is supported by Helix.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about how November is basically? Survival mode between the holidays, the travel, the hosting, the cooking, the everything. Sleep is the one thing keeping me from completely unraveling.

• 35:00Dax Shepard?

  It really is the foundation and I think people underestimate how much a bad mattress is quietly ruining their day. You wake up stiff, your back's angry, you're already behind before your feet hit the floor.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  That was me before Helix. I took their sleep quiz, which is so fast. It took me like two minutes and they matched me to a mattress that actually fits how I sleep. Not a guess, not a firm or soft coin flip. It's a real match. I have a midnight mattress and I really like it. I was noticing it because I actually had to sleep in one of my other beds.

• 35:28Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Recently.

• 35:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 35:29Speaker 01

  That doesn't have a Helix mattress on it and I really could tell a big difference in my sleep.

• 35:33Dax Shepard?

  Temperature was all over the map.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  It was a mess. I need a new one.

• 35:36Dax Shepard?

  Look, they've got over 20 mattress models. So whether you sleep hot, need extra back support, or you've got a partner who moves around all night, there's one built for you. Plus free shipping and a 365 night happy with Helix guarantee. That's a full year to decide.

• 35:51Speaker 01

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• 35:58Dax Shepard?

  Right now Helix is running their Black Friday sale with up to 30% off. Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for up to 30% off your Helix mattress. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for up to 30% off your Helix mattress. Helixsleep.com/armchair. We get support from our sponsor Lily. For adults with obesity or with excess weight and weight related medical problems, it's time to find out about Foundo or for Gleepran. Foundo is a once daily prescription GLP-1 medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off.

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• 37:23Speaker 03

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• 37:45Dax Shepard?

  Was the work to be done a strength training in a way that would protect the knee? Or was it playing a different game?

• 37:52Speaker 02

  For me, it was more mental. Basically, I went from a relaxed version of myself to an incredibly focused version of myself.

• 37:58Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  I could see almost getting addicted to that.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like a way of life.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  Coming out of an injury stronger.

• 38:04Dax Shepard?

  Well, they think about for Shaun White, how much of that's part of his story? Like getting counted out, huge face injury, almost dead, Olympics looming. Okay, now I have the fuel in the system. I need a story, ultimately, is what's fucking crazy about our brains. It's like, we can lock on to this story, and it's got a heroic outcome. You can find another gear. How did yours manifest itself?

• 38:28Speaker 02

  I feel the same in that I am... What'd you say?

• 38:31Dax Shepard?

  Megan. No, you're dead right. You're dead right.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  I feel the same in that I'm really thankful that happened. So it happened after my freshman year, beginning of my sophomore year, five or 10 games in. I had a great freshman year. I knew I was good, but I think that year in college, against the best competition, we won my freshman year, we won national championship. You couldn't tell me shit. I was like, I'm the bomb. This is gonna happen every year. Yeah, I'm like, I'm the shit. I'm so arrogant, my head's big. I'm just like strutting into my sophomore year. And then got injured. Even that injury, similar to what you're saying, physically, I'm like, oh, I got this. I'm gonna get back quicker than anyone. Kind of like, still in that... That same mindset and then I did it again a year later.

• 39:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  And I was like, okay, I get it. I'm not in charge. Fully not in charge here.

• 39:21Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  I think it took me out of myself and gave me this sense, and I have more language for it now than I would have back then. And this is how I've approached all my injuries since then is like, this is part of it. You don't get to control everything. You're not in charge of everything. You're not God. You do what you can. You control what you can control. You can work really hard and set yourself up, but ultimately sports, the fittest you are, the closer you are to an injury. The better you are and the more fit you are, I feel like you're always on that razor's edge.

• 39:50Dax Shepard?

  Well, because you're playing as hard as you possibly can.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  As hard as you can. You're working as hard as you can. You're as. You're pushing the limits. Yeah, you're pushing the limits. You're always kind of right there. That's a risk that you take. You know, I tore my ACL again when I was 30. I obviously tore my Achilles. At the end of my career, literally the last step I took, I tore my Achilles.

• 40:08Dax Shepard?

  Achilles. Did you feel it go up your back?

• 40:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Especially got kicked. It was like the classic, who kicked me? I was like, you gotta be fucking kidding me. I was leaving. I was like, I'm leaving. I was already leaving.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  When I was young, I feel like it gave me this perspective that was just like, this is part of it. This is life.

• 40:26Dax Shepard?

  Could we call it a surrender?

• 40:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely.

• 40:29Dax Shepard?

  Like a surrender to reality.

• 40:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. But there's also like an opportunity. So I've had probably eight lower extremity surgeries, six on my knee, one on each of my hips. And each one, you're a little different after.

• 40:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 40:40Speaker 02

  You can never go back. So that's the surrender part. It's really hard to let go of the previous version of yourself as an athlete and try to now create a new. But once you do surrender and once you get comfortable, I think with whatever this new adaptation is going to be, you're like, oh, it might be better. And then you get a little psycho about that. And then you get a little addicted to that. Exactly. Yeah, I can see that.

• 41:00Dax Shepard?

  You have both won titles in championships and medals in different domains, be it high school, college, Olympics, FIFA, all these. How would we rank these and do you guys agree with the elation? Because I know I talked to a lot of comedians who we all agree, it just didn't get better than when we were performing for free at a theater. Without any expectation. That was really the most fun it ever was.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  Here.

• 41:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I'm just curious. Olympics feels special, national teams feel special, all these things feel special. Is there a way to rank them? And do you agree on the ranking?

• 41:32Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a tough one. I feel like I could rank yours. No, I don't know. The most special, special one, because it was my first, was my gold medal in 2012. That was my first world championship. We had been in the World Cup final the year before we lost. And then obviously 2019, for a lot of different reasons, was, I feel like, the crown jewel in my career. But that one, because it was my first, it was special. I'm, you know, an American kid, obsessed with the Olympics since I was little. Oh, and back to the injury part. A lot of people don't talk about, the Olympics is so stressful because if you get injured, that's it. Yeah, it's so short. You don't get to participate. It's not a season where you're like, oh, I'm out for a couple of weeks, or a couple of months, and I'll get back. I've had teammates that have torn their ACLs or done something right before the Olympics, and then you just don't get the chance. Yeah.

• 42:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  So I feel like Olympics, that always separates.

• 42:19Dax Shepard?

  Hope you're great in four years.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:20Dax Shepard?

  Again.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  Again. And it might have passed you up.

• 42:22Dax Shepard?

  Are you able to integrate that sense of doing it for your country? Is that part of the high?

• 42:28Speaker 02

  Definitely. And that definition, I think, has changed over time as I became more educated about the history of America and what I was standing up for, and just who I am in America as a woman, as a gay woman, what that means. But I always took an incredible amount of pride to be able to represent America. It's not always the version of America that everybody else wants to talk about, or some people don't want to talk about. Certainly after kneeling with Colin Kaepernick, that was a different sense. But I always took a lot of pride in being like, oh, no, I'm American too. Yeah, exactly. This is also America. I mean, you guys always had that. I feel like women's basketball just intersects with every sort of ism possible. But I always took a lot of pride in being like, well, I'm American too. Yeah.

• 43:09Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 43:11Dax Shepard?

  And how about for you?

• 43:12Speaker 02

  I'm like, huh, going back and forth in my head on what I want to pick here. I think for me, it is the Olympics. That's probably the tippy top. And that's because there was no WNBA for me growing up. Right. So, yes, I wanted to get a college scholarship, and that was kind of the immediate goal. But then it was the Olympics. That, to me, was, you've made it.

• 43:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  You're an Olympian. You heard about people going overseas. Which I obviously did, but you know, I'm not 15 dreaming about going overseas to play basketball.

• 43:36Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  I'm 15 dreaming about being an Olympian.

• 43:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  So to achieve that, for that reason, it's kind of hard to beat, but I am jockeying between what makes something more rewarding. Is it the stakes? Is it what you're representing? Is it the expectations? I've been on teams where we weren't picked to win and then we did.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:53Speaker 02

  And there's something special and different about that.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:55Speaker 02

  But I've also been on teams that were expected and we did. And there's something special about that.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  That's also great. Yeah.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I think to answer, it's the Olympics.

• 44:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you can find pride in both because when you're the team that's expected to win, there's more pressure.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  Oh, it's hard.

• 44:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. When you're the underdog, it's like however far you get, people are getting pumped.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  Sometimes it's just a relief to win. Like I think in the situations that For the Olympics, there's a little bit of a relief. The expectation is perfection. And so, once you get there, you're like, well, thank God we didn't fucking lose. Because that'd be terrible.

• 44:23Dax Shepard?

  Did Monica already brag and tell you she's a two-time state champion cheerleader?

• 44:25Speaker 01

  I did not tell them. I kept that to myself.

• 44:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, what's up?

• 44:29Speaker 01

  High flyer. I'm glad it's coming up now.

• 44:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, high flyer. I got you, girl.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 44:33Dax Shepard?

  I'm your wingman.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  We won back to back and the first year we were totally underdogs and it was just pure happiness. Pure joy. It was so special. It was so great. And then the next year, we were supposed to win and it was like down to one point and it was pure relief. Which also felt amazing, but they are two completely different feelings and it's wild.

• 44:53Dax Shepard?

  As an outsider, I would want the first. Because the other one seems like relief's not a great

• 44:58Speaker 02

  I know.

• 45:00Dax Shepard?

  Feeling to chase, you know, it kind of implies that things were pretty shitty before we got to the relief.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  It's scary. It's just like an abatement of fear, really.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  You're also trying to recreate something from the year before and that's a trap.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally.

• 45:13Speaker 02

  You're like, but last year, guys, we did it like this and this happened. Or last year, we did it like that. And it's a total trap that everybody, when they're trying to repeat, falls into. To the relief point, there also is something special about being able to be like, oh no, I am who you thought I was. The best.

• 45:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 45:28Speaker 02

  Like there is something, it's like at the end of the day, I'm still an American, so I'm like, oh no, I am the best in the world.

• 45:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  There is something about proving that to yourself. And when you are on those teams that have those expectations and You get to look around and just be like, oh, no, we are who we thought we were. That is special, too, but there's something just unexpected and a surprise about winning when you weren't expected. That's just a different kind of special, I think.

• 45:52Dax Shepard?

  What tropes from male sports got grafted on to female sports that didn't work? I kind of think of, we just had an expert on talking about medically how we've not basically studied women. So we find out, oh, wow, guess what? You guys are twice as sensitive to Ambien. Oops. You know, all these things pop up.

• 46:13Speaker 02

  They used to just like give us Ambien. And I'm like, I mean, I'm going to take it, but like also.

• 46:17Dax Shepard?

  Also, I'm going to wake up at Rite Aid buying something. None of my male friends are doing this on Ambien. What's going on?

• 46:22Speaker 02

  Stay up for 30 minutes, obviously, to see what's going on here, but.

• 46:25Dax Shepard?

  Try to find my place in space and time.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  Crazy. That was a crazy time period in America. I never get Ambien trained. They would like give it to us on planes.

• 46:33Dax Shepard?

  People were peeing in aisles.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  It was, yeah.

• 46:36Dax Shepard?

  What a drug. We went crazy for it for a minute. But do you think there's been things, because so much of this famous coaching and these famous approaches, they originated in male sports, and which ones of them are like ill-fitting and have proved to be that's actually not how we perform best?

• 46:53Speaker 02

  A big part of what happens and what gets overlaid is that if it doesn't look and feel exactly like men's sports, which of course it isn't because it's women's sports, then it's lesser. Everything is just automatically like it's not going to be entertaining. It's not going to be fun. It's not going to make money. Nobody likes it. Nobody wants to watch. And it's like, that's actually just not true. Women's sports, there's a ton of similarities because it's sports, but it is a different business. It's a different fan base, different business model. Things aren't exactly the same. If you go the business route for the WNBA, a big mistake was we took the NBA CBA. 2003, I think, is when we first became independent.

• 47:35Speaker 02

  The NBA actually owned the entire WNBA up until 2003, and then it went to individual team ownership, which is more the model we're all familiar with now. That's how NBA is now.

• 47:44Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  So WNBA goes individual, so we now have to have a collective bargaining agreement. And we basically just took the MBAs and like copy pasted it. And it's like, oh, that doesn't fit. We didn't really get to change that until our last one, which was 2019.

• 47:56Dax Shepard?

  What was ill-fitting about it?

• 47:57Speaker 02

  Certain ways in which free agency was gonna work, certain ways in which the salary cap was gonna work, certain rules. Well, one big one is that we didn't have maternity leave. So like, that's different.

• 48:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, right.

• 48:08Speaker 02

  That's the most obvious and most glaring. And then there's other, smaller ways in which our league didn't get to have fun free agency.

• 48:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 48:16Speaker 02

  NBA, what do we all love about the offseason? The free agency. Where are these people gonna go?

• 48:20Dax Shepard?

  The drama of it all.

• 48:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, it just didn't work for our league. So there's like a business part to it. I think there is like a medical part, right? Nutrition, the way we lift, the way we work out. We've always been following male guidelines and we're obviously different. I feel like where you're going, correct me if I'm wrong, is are we being coached in a way?

• 48:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I think there's this kind of alpha dominance model. There's fun coaches. We interviewed this Seattle Seahawks coach and he's an anomaly and that's not his approach. There are ways that I talk to other dudes that I don't speak to women that way. I just think there are differences in how we communicate and how we're gonna excel best. And I imagine you just inherited a bunch of these, whatever worked for these legendary coaches.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  So I've played for men, I've played for women. There's always been this unspoken understanding, or not understanding, maybe like a knowing, that like the women coaches are more emotional.

• 49:12Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 49:12Speaker 02

  And that's been a negative.

• 49:13Dax Shepard?

  From the outside or internally on the team?

• 49:15Speaker 02

  Even internally, like, oh, I don't wanna play for her, like, she's just so much more emotional. Meanwhile, they're not. Men are more emotional and throwing stuff and having tantrums and not being able to control their emotions or name their emotions. It's anger. But to your point, it's like, I think now we're finally getting to a place where we're questioning that. Like, well, is that bad?

• 49:32Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 49:33Speaker 02

  Because women are, in my experience, are more collaborative. We do like to do things together. Yeah, emotionally intelligent and we take that into consideration.

• 49:40Dax Shepard?

  You look each other in the eyes when you talk. You don't need to go on a walk and like, look at other things.

• 49:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think the egos are different in women's sports than they are in men's. They exist.

• 49:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:49Speaker 02

  They exist. I'm not gonna say they're different, they exist. But I think it shows itself differently.

• 49:53Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  And we've always used the male model for judgment on those things.

• 49:57Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  And I think it's starting to shift. And you're starting to see. Coaches, I'm not super familiar with what the Seahawks coach was saying, but I think in women's basketball, you're starting to find coaches that are looking to do it differently.

• 50:08Dax Shepard?

  The notion that you would have one coaching strategy for the white kid, whose dad was also the quarterback at Stanford, who has arrived, and then now this other kid from the inner city, who's black, who didn't have a dad and hates male figures for good reason. But we're going to treat these two the same. You know, one who's like, had respect for authority for a good reason. He had a great authoritarian above him, looking out for him. And then another, you know, how on earth do you have one strategy that's going to motivate both of these kids in the same way? And I think he's really taking into account that.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  I had a coach where we had a player who was dyslexic, and she totally changed how she drew up plays, how she described things. I think to your point, it's like meeting somebody where they are.

• 50:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I mean, is your goal to break a person and get them to follow your strategy? Or is it to figure out what would help them best excel?

• 50:53Speaker 02

  I have a lot more respect for coaches that can adapt versus the ones like, this is how I do it. I've had success this way. You fit me. Meet me here. Yeah.

• 51:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you guys will come and go. I'll be here, and this is my show.

• 51:05Speaker 02

  I think historically, there's been also the vibe with coaches that they're the boss and the players work for them. And it's like, no, we're all coworkers. Your job is to lead the team and make decisions. And there's certain decisions that are your job that aren't my job as a player. But also, I don't work for you. We're all working in an organization. Together, we can all respect each other and give each other the space to have different ideas or to disagree or whatever it is. I think historically with men and women's sports, there's also the added layer of sexism. And then if there's sexual abuse that happens or sexual harassment or just like the vibes of it, there's all of that happening as well. But I think even with men, just the sort of abuse that happens of just like, I'm going to tell you what to do no matter what, and it's a privilege for you to be here.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  And it's like, no, they're here because they're just as talented, probably more talented than you are. And we're all working together to do this.

• 51:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, like Bobby Knight throwing chairs at people and stuff. It's just like, well, that's hysterical.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, seriously. Oh, my God. Emotional.

• 52:03Dax Shepard?

  We did just have a psychologist on that was saying, men are allowed to share their emotions, but in sport. That's the only. Place a man is allowed to cry with happiness or cry with disappointment.

• 52:14Speaker 02

  Or hug each other or show physical affection to each other. Yeah, they do that weird patting.

• 52:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you can tell they have this little window to be intimate with each other and like, squishy squishy like.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  Don't let me start it on homoeroticism in male sports.

• 52:29Dax Shepard?

  It's strong.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  How old is the WNBA? I should know that.

• 52:34Speaker 02

  Twenty-eight ish years since ninety-seven, yeah.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  Well, even when you were saying you didn't grow up with it, the Olympics was the big goal. I was like, oh, that's weird because I felt like for basketball, the Olympics isn't it, but for men's basketball. I mean, I'm sure it's still great, but for them, I feel like that's like an extra.

• 52:51Dax Shepard?

  Well, their version was more like, I'm gonna go be famous on a team, then I'll come together as this all-star party group.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  Money skews it.

• 52:59Dax Shepard?

  Icing on the cake to go do something for the purity of it. That was the finish line for a female.

• 53:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think the men do take a lot of pride when they play on the Olympic team, but their decision to do it, it's totally different.

• 53:11Dax Shepard?

  Yes, they're flying there first class. They're at a very nice place. They don't even stay in the camp, I don't think.

• 53:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, we don't. So USA Basketball, men's and women's, it's one thing. So we do everything together.

• 53:23Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you do?

• 53:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:24Dax Shepard?

  And do you like men's basketball?

• 53:25Speaker 02

  I do. I'm a big fan.

• 53:26Dax Shepard?

  Who were you most pumped to be in a camp with?

• 53:29Speaker 02

  Like before?

• 53:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:31Speaker 02

  So I'm like twenty-three years old. I'd never met Allen Iverson. So I was like, well, this is kinda cool. Some of my favorite memories were just on the bus going to probably opening ceremony or something. And the whole time he was just like, name a sport, give me a month, I'll be an Olympian. He was like, name it, name it. We were like, swimming. He was like, give me a month. Cause that's how insane of an athlete he is, to be honest.

• 53:53Dax Shepard?

  And so gorgeous. Holy cow.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, I know. Honestly, spending time with all of them. I could go down the list. We have good times. I think what I like most about the Olympic men's basketball team is these guys, they're all the best on their teams. They all have huge egos. They're all just like Mr. Man out there. And then they get there and the hierarchy shows itself. And I'm like, ooh, I like it. I like the drama. I like the drama.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  Psychologically, it's interesting.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  Psychologically, it's really interesting because they're all good enough to play. And then you get in the game and it's like, oh no, this is Steph, LeBron and KD. Or you get in the game and it's Asia Stewie and really those two were the best. Two thousand and four Athens Olympics is the one I'm referencing with Allen Iverson. LeBron, D Wade, Mello are on that team. They didn't play a lot.

• 54:37Dax Shepard?

  Ah, that's crazy.

• 54:39Speaker 02

  I was on the team with Diana Taurasi. We were kind of the young bucks. We didn't play a lot. So the five of us were just like every night like, what the fuck? This is fucking bullshit.

• 54:47Dax Shepard?

  How many minutes you get tonight? Olympics suck.

• 54:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's an interesting experience. I love the drama. I mean, I'm here for all drama.

• 54:53Dax Shepard?

  That's why I love the movie The Departed. Forget the movie itself. Because you take like the eight biggest movie stars in the world and put them in scenes together. And you're like, ooh, who am I gonna look at?

• 55:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:02Dax Shepard?

  And for my money, I was like, fucking Jack Nicholson. I'm a huge Leo fan, but I'm sorry, they're in a two shot. I'm like, all eyes on Jack Nicholson. Ooh, it's tasty.

• 55:11Speaker 02

  I know, I do. I'm like.

• 55:12Dax Shepard?

  We're hierarchy creatures. We love it.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  I like to see it all play out.

• 55:16Dax Shepard?

  Now, one of the other things I imagine, maybe you guys have thought a lot about this because you're part owners of different sports teams now. There was the tropes of the sport itself and then maybe the coaching and these different things, but also the spectator experience has always been very male, right? Some military dudes are gonna fly in. We're gonna send the jets over the thing. We're gonna have some sexy cheerleaders. Clearly, the whole entertainment package is to appeal to men. And I don't know how much thought ever went into like, what would the WNBA viewers that are female getting other than the game? Is that part of the thing that's been left out?

• 55:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, so interestingly, the New York Liberty, who are in the WNBA finals now, they moved to Brooklyn a couple of years ago. So they had to change their mascot up and they have Ellie the Elephant. I think it's like short for Ellis Island or something like that. This mascot has tapped into something, I think in terms of spectators, fans, the connect of it to us. Arguably Ellie is like bigger than the players.

• 56:13Dax Shepard?

  Really?

• 56:14Speaker 02

  Not really, but. She was just on stage with Justin Timberlake.

• 56:17Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 56:18Speaker 02

  When he performed at Barclays. Was on stage when Missy and Ciara came through. Performed with Ciara. Whoa. So the show, when you go to the game, is very much about the game and very much about Ellie. People go for Ellie. And I think that speaks to women's basketball fans. If you see her perform, you'll understand what I'm saying.

• 56:35Dax Shepard?

  I must.

• 56:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have to see it.

• 56:36Dax Shepard?

  Check it out.

• 56:37Speaker 02

  She's twerking and dancing. She does like a Beyonce. She'll do like a Beyonce set. This is my show.

• 56:41Dax Shepard?

  The football team that Natalie's an investor in here has done such a great job is like, the experience is incredibly fun. And they're sold out and it's a party. And they've like figured out how to make that whole experience, not just the game, really deliver what they would want.

• 56:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think too, men's sports has not always been an actually safe place for a lot of people to go. If you think about an NFL game.

• 57:07Dax Shepard?

  You can say the Raiders.

• 57:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. Or the Cowboys, or anybody else, you know, take 2016, 17, 18, and you are a queer person trying to go to the game. You're, you know, a black family trying to go to the game. Maybe it's just not always the safest place for you. And it's very much marketed like, this is who we are. It's jets flying over. It's explicit conservative patriotism. And for women's sporting events, I think this has always been true. Basically, it's like, don't be racist, misogynistic, sexist, or homophobic. That's the rules, period. And then have fun. Bring your friends, bring your family, be queer, be black, be whatever you want to be, and just come and enjoy the sport that's being played.

• 57:51Dax Shepard?

  Without getting knifed in the parking lot. I, as a tall, strong, white dude, have been afraid to go to a lot of these games, just to include myself in that.

• 57:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's aggressive, it's hyper masculine, there's a lot of alcohol.

• 58:02Dax Shepard?

  Drunk.

• 58:02Speaker 02

  It's drunk, there's people fighting.

• 58:04Dax Shepard?

  All the men felt emasculated by the physiques of the players.

• 58:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, traditionally, I think women's sports has just had its own fan base for a very long time. And I think as women's sports has gotten more popular over the last five, six, seven years, people are coming to the games because they want to support something bigger. Yeah. You know, a woman who's suffering equal pay issues in her own job is like, you know what? I'm going to the soccer game.

• 58:29Dax Shepard?

  Critics would probably go, I guess they would parallel it with like, I'm gonna vote for that person because they're black or they're female. And they would go, you need to vote for them on their character, or this or that. It feels adjacent to that. Where a critic might go like, it's gotta be about the sport, it shouldn't be about. About the movement around it or the vibe around it. But I would argue what has made the NFL so popular is it is that. It's the same thing.

• 58:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're the ones doing identity politics. I'm gonna do my fan rundown. The way I see it is this, in sports, there's like three buckets of fans. There's the diehards, they love the sport, they're in no matter what. They're like doing their own stats. They're traveling to road games, yeah. Then there's the people that don't give a shit, and that's okay too. There's people that don't like certain sports and they just don't care you'll never get them. And then there's the bigger bucket, which is the casual fan. And I think for women's sports, we've had a really hard time tapping into the casual fan at times. And that's what you're seeing in this rise. It's the more casual fan where it doesn't have to just be about the game. For some, it is, for some, it's not. I remember when the Sounders, which is the MLS team in Seattle, when they started to get really big and they averaged, I think, like a league best. Yeah, they're forty thousand a game. It's like forty thousand a game.

• 59:37Speaker 02

  And so I went to a game and the first thing I noticed was, okay, everybody's got the scarf on. People love a scarf in soccer, we'll get to that in a second. In groups. They were doing a tailgate thing, then we got to the game and a large percentage of the people around me clearly did not know the rules. And then I was like, what is happening here? And I was like, oh, you're a part of something, there's a community. So for some, it's that.

• 1:00:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  And so I just think that casual bucket, who cares where they're going? Something touched them and they're going. Yeah. And women's sports is finally tapping into that. Because for a while, we were just the punchline. Yeah. So the casual fan was like, why do I go to a WNBA game? They're making fun of it on SNL. Right. That's all changing. I might as well go to a baseball game. Yeah, it's cool to be at an NBA game, it's cool to be at an NFL game. They don't care about the sport either.

• 1:00:23Dax Shepard?

  But I'm so that, I'll end up at one or two baseball games a year, maybe a football game, maybe a basketball game. And I am going because sitting outside and eating a hot dog at Dodger Stadium in the summertime.

• 1:00:34Speaker 02

  Awesome.

• 1:00:35Dax Shepard?

  It's just incredible. The game's so boring and slow, like you're gonna miss shit, you can talk a lot. Every now and then you're like, oh fuck, we're standing up, everyone's standing up.

• 1:00:44Speaker 02

  Home run.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  It's just an event, it's a fun thing to change up your weekend.

• 1:00:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and then I go to a hockey game and I'm like, this game's spectacular, why don't I watch it? It's so. So fast in person. And then I just went recently to LAFC. And I was like, this game is so dynamic in person and so fast that I don't know why they can't capture that yet perfectly on camera. But I'm like, oh, this is incredible. And same thing. The soccer movement is, I think, the movement of movements in sports. It feels like people have a sense that it hasn't been defined yet and they can have ownership.

• 1:01:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:18Dax Shepard?

  Right?

• 1:01:18Speaker 02

  I think there's some of that. It's a real sort of counterculture vibe.

• 1:01:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:22Speaker 02

  Sounders have that definitely here in LAFC, the chanting. It's like, all the football fans have been captured. The baseball fans have been captured. It's classic America sports. And this is like, ooh, it's a little subversive. Right. I think we like that.

• 1:01:34Dax Shepard?

  Soccer's always been that way. So I played soccer as a kid and I hated jocks. I didn't like football players or any of that stuff. But I played soccer because it was like a punk rock thing to do.

• 1:01:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:43Dax Shepard?

  It's always kind of had that vibe. And I'm glad to see it's like carrying into the professional side.

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's fun. It's a cool vibe with all the supporters groups and they're yelling and they got the flags and the flares and the tipos. And that's crazy. And the scarves. And the scarves, yeah.

• 1:01:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:57Speaker 02

  I don't know why.

• 1:01:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there's a whole section at the LAFC game. The tickets exist just for this union of people. No one else can buy them.

• 1:02:04Speaker 02

  The supporter group people.

• 1:02:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like Mad Max. They're banging on trash cans and they sing the entire time.

• 1:02:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 1:02:10Dax Shepard?

  It's quite incredible.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:11Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so how long ago do you decide to start the podcast?

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  It started during the pandemic, just on Instagram Live. Because we were like, we know what the people need. Us drinking. Yeah, us drinking and fucking around. That's sort of the ultimate origin story. But then we did a couple of live shows and those were just fun. Like at the Women's Final Four.

• 1:02:34Dax Shepard?

  Tell me more, like, what was this?

• 1:02:35Speaker 02

  Like a bar restaurant, sell tickets, the fans come, and then we get up there and we kind of do like a version of a live podcast, basically.

• 1:02:42Dax Shepard?

  With a guest or without a guest?

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  Usually with guests.

• 1:02:45Dax Shepard?

  And you have a list of topics you're gonna go through. And how many did you set out to do and how many did you end up doing?

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're pretty good. We'll go long.

• 1:02:52Dax Shepard?

  Okay, yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:53Speaker 02

  That's kind of our, I feel like we're yakking, yakking. We don't know how to not go long.

• 1:02:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, same.

• 1:02:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. But we're at certain events that beg for certain topics to be talked about.

• 1:03:02Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

  There's not like as much leeway. We're at the Final Four, we're talking about basketball. We're talking about that, yeah.

• 1:03:06Dax Shepard?

  I missed one thing I want to talk about before the podcast. You guys met in Rio at the 2016 Olympics? Okay, but you were in a separate village with the basketball players?

• 1:03:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we met at the Nike house, I think.

• 1:03:19Dax Shepard?

  Getting free shoes.

• 1:03:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. This is Jax's dream. He's always talking about falling in love at the Olympics. Yeah. As athletes.

• 1:03:26Dax Shepard?

  Thanks for painting it in such a positive light. I think about fucking.

• 1:03:31Speaker 02

  Well, that's what the village.

• 1:03:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:32Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 1:03:33Dax Shepard?

  Because everyone's.

• 1:03:34Speaker 02

  Everybody's in amazing shape.

• 1:03:36Dax Shepard?

  You're just never gonna.

• 1:03:37Speaker 02

  I always say it's the one place you go, to be honest, to like feel like shit about yourself because everybody look, yeah.

• 1:03:43Dax Shepard?

  Even better.

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  So good. Yeah, like you think you look good? And then you see like a track and field athlete.

• 1:03:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you're like, holy fuck. And you're like.

• 1:03:51Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  Have I ever done a sit up? Like, what's happening? Because like, we're obviously in shape, but we're not worried about one tenth of a second. Right, exactly. And that's a different kind of shape.

• 1:04:00Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's my favorite part of watching the Olympics is, oh, this activity gives you that body. That's fascinating. All the female volleyball players, sand volleyball, all look the same. All the sprinters look the same.

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  All the soccer players, like, when we first started dating, I was actually, like I said earlier, I'm only 5'9". In my world, I'm tiny.

• 1:04:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:16Speaker 02

  I'm in the back, in the middle seat, always in the car. Like, always. I just took that on as my identity. Then we got together and her teammates were like. She's huge. Yeah.

• 1:04:25Dax Shepard?

  She's a freak.

• 1:04:26Speaker 02

  Shotgun for Sue.

• 1:04:27Dax Shepard?

  Where'd you get this giraffe?

• 1:04:28Speaker 02

  Literally.

• 1:04:30Speaker 02

  And it was interesting because I was like, oh, as a soccer player, you have to be of a certain height and build.

• 1:04:35Dax Shepard?

  You're not gonna be 6'8".

• 1:04:36Speaker 02

  You have to be able to run. If you can't run fast, you can't play. Right.

• 1:04:39Dax Shepard?

  And run forever.

• 1:04:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:40Dax Shepard?

  Forever, literally. Straight. So you guys were at the Nike store?

• 1:04:45Speaker 02

  The Nike house. People do houses.

• 1:04:47Dax Shepard?

  Oh, tell me more.

• 1:04:47Speaker 02

  USA has a house. Nike has a house. I'm sure Adidas has a house.

• 1:04:51Dax Shepard?

  Party house for Mingling?

• 1:04:52Speaker 02

  It's more like a place to go, because the Olympics are kind of wild. And for the athletes, you're in the village. You don't really get to see your family. They can't come in the village. So a lot of brands, a lot of different people will have these houses, which is really just a place you can go and bring your family.

• 1:05:06Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:05:06Speaker 02

  See your people, hang out. Or they'll have food, or they'll have a little shopping section, or sometimes they'll throw a party. And it's kind of these multi-use spaces that's like Nike's setting up here for the Olympics, kind of deal.

• 1:05:18Dax Shepard?

  And you were both there. Who were you with? Teammates or family?

• 1:05:21Speaker 02

  I was with my teammates. Our team had already gone out. We like bombed out of the Olympics. Yeah. They lost. I think you were there socially. Yeah. Just hanging out.

• 1:05:28Dax Shepard?

  Licking your wounds and getting free vodka Red Bulls.

• 1:05:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, literally. A lot of my teammates, we weren't even in Rio for our games. Soccer travels all over, so we hadn't even gone to Rio yet. Most of my teammates, it was pretty devastating loss. We did terrible. They were like, we're going home. This is awful. And I was like, well, I'm going to drown myself in Rio and I'm gonna have myself a ball. There was like six or seven of us that went down there. It was great. So you had not met before? We're in the same agency, not the same agent. And we both play in Seattle in our professional team. We knew of each other. We had met once. But what the Olympics really marked was like, this is dumb. We're both in Seattle. Why aren't we friends and hanging out? Why aren't our teams hanging out? Right. This is stupid. And that's really how it started.

• 1:06:07Dax Shepard?

  Okay. And then so you're chatting at this party. You're going, oh, it's crazy. We don't hang out. We both live in Seattle. How quickly, though, are you going like, I'm acting like we should be friends for this greater purpose of our

• 1:06:20Speaker 02

  Well, are you gonna tell?

• 1:06:21Dax Shepard?

  Seattle kinship?

• 1:06:21Speaker 02

  I was dating someone at the time.

• 1:06:24Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:06:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that

• 1:06:26Dax Shepard?

  Complicated.

• 1:06:26Speaker 02

  Dating is a I was engaged to someone at the time. Thank you. I know, I'm like, dating? I was engaged to someone at the time and yeah, we were going through a little bit of a rough patch. That wasn't gonna work. And then obviously, meeting Sue, it just became very clear, clear that Very clear.

• 1:06:42Dax Shepard?

  Clearly clear.

• 1:06:42Speaker 02

  Very clear, yeah. Freudian. Yeah, then it escalated.

• 1:06:47Dax Shepard?

  Ah, okay.

• 1:06:48Speaker 02

  After I broke up with Real fun. I broke up with my fiance at the time and then we started talking. Yeah.

• 1:06:54Dax Shepard?

  Okay. And then quickly, thick as thieves, do we become inseparable pretty fast?

• 1:06:59Speaker 02

  You know how lesbians roll.

• 1:07:01Dax Shepard?

  Well, I have heard a great joke.

• 1:07:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:02Dax Shepard?

  I do love the one joke.

• 1:07:04Speaker 02

  What is it?

• 1:07:04Dax Shepard?

  They already know it. What do lesbians bring on a second date?

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. U-Haul.

• 1:07:09Dax Shepard?

  A U-Haul.

• 1:07:09Speaker 02

  See, bring a truck.

• 1:07:10Dax Shepard?

  What do gay dudes bring on a second date? What second date?

• 1:07:13Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:07:15Speaker 02

  I was gonna be like, another gay dude? I was like, poppers? I don't know, another gay dude? Loom?

• 1:07:19Dax Shepard?

  That's a good joke.

• 1:07:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, it's a good form. Those jokes exist for a reason. Yeah.

• 1:07:24Dax Shepard?

  When they hit a truth.

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, it is what it is.

• 1:07:27Dax Shepard?

  Was it coordinated about retiring at the same time, roughly? It's not, right? You had done 20 years with Seattle? That's crazy. Is that a record in the WNBA? Were you the longest playing?

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  Maybe. Definitely up there. Yeah, you and Diana, probably.

• 1:07:40Dax Shepard?

  And Megan, you played for a very long time as well.

• 1:07:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:43Dax Shepard?

  And so that just timed out kind of perfectly, I guess.

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, it did.

• 1:07:47Dax Shepard?

  And then collectively, do you start talking about like, well, what are we gonna do now with the remaining 45 years of our lives?

• 1:07:53Speaker 02

  What the fuck do we do now?

• 1:07:55Dax Shepard?

  And both people are scared, probably.

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. What was my favorite Derek Jeter quote when he retired? He was like, oh, I went from being an old man to a young man. Because when you're 41 in sports, you're old as fuck. And they treat you that way, and they talk about your age, and they ask you what you're gonna do. As soon as you hit 30, they're like, oh, what are you gonna do next? Retirement conversation. Yeah. And then the minute you retire, like, oh, I'm young again. This is great. I'm not the oldest one at dinners. This is amazing.

• 1:08:19Dax Shepard?

  There's a Formula One race car driver named Fernando Alonso. Yeah, he's 43. In every lap that he's on TV, they're talking about that he's 43. And I'm like excited he's 43 because I'm 49. I'm like, you go get it, old timer.

• 1:08:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you're right. Just let him live. He's just driving his car. Just let him live.

• 1:08:35Dax Shepard?

  In any other career trajectory, he'd be like mid-level right now, about to get his big shit coming at 50.

• 1:08:41Speaker 02

  So what's interesting about that is you're in your late 30s, early 40s, but you're at an expert level in your career. Yeah. But now you get to go into this, what we call like the real world. And we do have an expertise that's unique. We hit that level of our career, but we're young again. And I think that's really where we are, and that's what makes what we're doing exciting. Like, whether it's the podcast or the other business ventures that we're in. We have an expert level, but we're still pretty young. You have time.

• 1:09:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's a great way to frame it because it's very hopeful and there's so much opportunity when you're young.

• 1:09:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:08Dax Shepard?

  There's like so much to come. Whereas most people, you're 40, you're in your track, that's pretty much that.

• 1:09:13Speaker 02

  This is it.

• 1:09:16Dax Shepard?

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 1:09:23Dax Shepard?

  We are supported by Walden University. You know that feeling when you've been thinking about making a move, going after the degree, the promotion, the thing you keep telling yourself you'll get to someday? Walden University is built for that moment. For over 50 years, Walden has helped working professionals get the W, the knowledge, the skills, and the confidence to create real change in their careers and communities. Their programs are designed around your life, not the other way around. With Tempo Learning, a val- And select programs, there are no rigid schedules or set weekly deadlines. You move at your own pace and Walden's faculty aren't just academics. They're practitioners who bring real world experience into everything they teach.

• 1:10:06Dax Shepard?

  From your first class to career coaching and beyond, Walden is your partner the whole way. Take the first step and learn at a pace that works for you. Visit walden u.edu Walden University. Set a course for change certified to operate by CHEV. This episode is brought to you by Service Now. Look, I have my dream job. I get to talk to folks I admire like crazy and ask them virtually any question that I want to. I can't imagine a better way to spend my time, but even dream jobs have some not so dreamy parts. The stuff that gets in the way of the actual work. Now that's where Service Now's AI specialists come in.

• 1:10:48Dax Shepard?

  They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it, start to finish, cases closed, requests handled, no extra work for you. So you and your team can focus on what matters most, which for me is are they obsessed with male bodies on the same level as I am?

• 1:11:05Speaker 01

  They never are.

• 1:11:06Dax Shepard?

  To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com.

• 1:11:19Speaker 02

  With the podcast, what was so and even our production company that we started and wanting to like get into media and content. Storytelling is the most important thing, whether it's writers and their books or journalists. Storytelling what's happening in the world or storytelling and narrating around sports. And women's sports has had such a lack of storytelling, understanding, conversation, a lack of nuance. And we've lived, you say it all the time in a very non arrogant way, like we really are the experts. We've lived through this crazy period of basically the last 25 years. Where now we're at this period in sports where basically all the money is like, okay, fine.

• 1:12:02Speaker 02

  Women's sports, we're gonna do it. It seems like it's a good thing. And now there's all this money coming in and there's all this interest and there's all these eyeballs. And stories need to be told. We are really in a position.

• 1:12:14Speaker 01

  It's like we know all the stories. We know where all the bodies are buried.

• 1:12:18Speaker 02

  If we don't know it personally, we know the person who does know it personally.

• 1:12:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:22Speaker 02

  We've lived it all. We've understood how we've gotten to this moment. So I think with the podcast and with our production company, we really feel like we're in this position to like, narrate all the history, but also this is how we should be talking about women's sports. This is how it's different from men's sports, because we also know men's sports. We're huge fans of men's sports for our whole lives. And we have so much, whether it's The Last Dance or just watching it for so long, we have so much information about it. This is so exciting for us and why we even want to do this. Because as you guys know, it's a lot of work to like sit in front of a mic and prepare and tell these stories and do this narration all the time.

• 1:12:56Dax Shepard?

  Show up half hour late, it's hard.

• 1:12:59Speaker 02

  At your own house.

• 1:13:01Dax Shepard?

  I think you were recording at 11 and it was 10.

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  But it's a really exciting time, I think, for both of us. And what excites both of us about it is we really know what it is and how the story should be told to bring more people in. Because we're like, this is amazing here. Women's sports is incredible. Sports are incredible. It's one of the most vulnerable things you can watch someone do live is to try their very hardest with their physical body in tandem with other people and like try to achieve this goal.

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  And somebody's trying to stop you.

• 1:13:30Speaker 02

  And somebody's trying to stop you, somebody's trying to do the same thing.

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:32Dax Shepard?

  Well, talk about story. Sports is the ultimate story. The objective's very clear. The stakes are baked in. Like, I don't watch a lot of sports, but I watch every single sports documentary. I don't think there's one I haven't seen. I love them all, because the second it starts, I know what the stakes are. I know what the goal is. I know what defeat looks like.

• 1:13:49Speaker 02

  Sports stories are so human, whether you're climbing the face of El Capitan, which none of us can do. You can like understand the story of what Alex is doing up there.

• 1:13:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:58Speaker 02

  Or watching Power of the Dream, like you guys documented how they basically saved America. You understand what's happening and you can feel yourself in that.

• 1:14:06Speaker 01

  It is so trite. It's like, I shouldn't even say it because it's so stupid to say, but it really is so true that representation. Matters.

• 1:14:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:14Speaker 01

  It is huge. I just got this Barbie sent to me.

• 1:14:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, we saw. The Dua Lipa Barbie. I just saw it this morning. It was in the USA Today.

• 1:14:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:23Speaker 02

  I was like, oh!

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  They sent it to me and I was like, whoa. I had friends over for dinner and I was like, you guys, look at this Barbie. It's so great. I literally said that and I was like, it's crazy that I never could say that growing up. I could never say, hey, guys, look at this Barbie that looks like me. It's so powerful to feel part of the group.

• 1:14:42Dax Shepard?

  Sue, you have a Barbie coming out, right?

• 1:14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it came out.

• 1:14:44Dax Shepard?

  It came out!

• 1:14:45Speaker 01

  So exciting!

• 1:14:46Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:14:46Dax Shepard?

  You're looking at the ding ding ding here.

• 1:14:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:48Dax Shepard?

  You brought a Barbie. She is a Barbie.

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  You are one.

• 1:14:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I always joke, my Barbie has better knees than I do. I'm like low key jealous. They made her bionic. I'm like, damn.

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  Oh, that's exciting.

• 1:14:57Speaker 02

  I need that technology. No, it really does matter. I feel like that's what's so cool about women's sports. It's like, yeah, you're talking about gay women and black women and queer women and straight women and white women. It's like, there's a million things going on in here and everybody can find their place in it.

• 1:15:10Dax Shepard?

  I think it goes even beyond that because I think the hardcore misogynistic male defenders of male sports would probably say, no, no, golf is intrinsically interesting and the NFL is intrinsically interesting. But if you look at the viewership, it's like, no, no, you need Tiger Woods to show up.

• 1:15:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:28Dax Shepard?

  He's a person whose story we get fascinated on and it quadruples sports. Drive to Survive comes out and we learn the personalities of these race car drivers.

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  That was Megan.

• 1:15:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, same. I didn't like it before.

• 1:15:40Speaker 02

  I was like, am I an F1 super fan?

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:42Speaker 02

  She is.

• 1:15:43Dax Shepard?

  Because they gave us the protagonists.

• 1:15:46Speaker 02

  Yes, yep.

• 1:15:47Dax Shepard?

  And then it 4Xed in America, F1. There's so many elements, but it's also like, shamefully, I know Cheryl Miller. That's who I knew. I just know she's great. I didn't get to see her be great, really. I didn't see any college basketball games of hers. I just know her stats.

• 1:16:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:01Dax Shepard?

  And I go, oh, those are fucking wild. But you need these kind of breakthrough superstars that ignite interest in esports. The sports themselves aren't.

• 1:16:10Speaker 01

  Nothing's intrinsically interesting.

• 1:16:12Speaker 02

  It's all the story around it. It's all the history around it. It's all of the little things that pull you in. That's why I love the Olympics so much because That is the Olympics. They show you the pre-story and especially how it used to be where it was like, it's coming on at prime time. They show you the story and then you watch that person go and run around the track.

• 1:16:30Dax Shepard?

  Do you guys watch Sprint before the Olympics?

• 1:16:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:33Dax Shepard?

  And I'm like, oh, I care more about this than anyone.

• 1:16:37Speaker 02

  Locked in. Yeah.

• 1:16:38Dax Shepard?

  Shaqari, I love you. I want to see you win.

• 1:16:41Speaker 02

  All of those things matter and then you're invested in it. And then, yeah, sports are sports. They're fun and it's an event to go to. Like a concert or a comedy show or the farmer's market or you go to sports. It's like, this is something that we're doing for entertainment. I think there's something that you always say that's like, not every sport is for every person. You said baseball was boring, but you can maybe go on time and enjoy it. Or you don't go at all and you don't love it. And you say, I'm literally stealing this for you, but it's like, but you don't shit on baseball every day. You don't like spend all of your time.

• 1:17:13Dax Shepard?

  Threatening my identity.

• 1:17:14Speaker 02

  Right. You're not spending all of your time on the platform that you have to make sure everybody knows you hate baseball. Yeah. And it has no value and it's not worth it. What people do to women's sports.

• 1:17:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:23Speaker 02

  So it's like, you don't have to even come to the most popular ones that you'll probably like. You don't even have to do that, but why do you have to shit on it? Why do you have to tear that down? Yes. Why is it threatening? That's the point. It's okay if you like one thing better than another. I would argue that, and I can't really pull like an exact example, but I might argue that, I'm not going to argue this. Someone might say men's tennis is more, what, athletic, exciting than women's tennis? And yet, aren't there people that prefer women's tennis?

• 1:17:50Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:17:51Speaker 02

  So it is just the preference.

• 1:17:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:52Speaker 02

  And then back to what Meghan said. Women's basketball is a great example. We don't dunk. We have to deal with this all the time. You guys don't dunk. It's boring. You don't dunk. It's boring.

• 1:18:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I'm not in the silo enough. I don't hate the W, so I don't know.

• 1:18:05Speaker 02

  I love that. But it's like, you constantly have to answer that, but it's like, okay, you don't like it. That's fine. But what she said, why do you feel the need to shit on it? Because that shitting on it has infested and gotten in the veins.

• 1:18:15Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:18:16Speaker 02

  Of like the cultural cachet of it all.

• 1:18:17Dax Shepard?

  What's your armchair explanation for this? You could just go misogyny. Great, but I think.

• 1:18:22Speaker 02

  For basketball, I have one.

• 1:18:23Dax Shepard?

  Oh, great.

• 1:18:23Speaker 02

  It's very specific to basketball.

• 1:18:25Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great. I want to hear it.

• 1:18:25Speaker 02

  Okay, so different from some other sports, particularly team sports, a lot of men, boys, play basketball.

• 1:18:31Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:18:32Speaker 02

  They play it. They play it on the park. They play it in gym class. They play it on their teams in elementary school, middle school, so on and so forth. And they think they're good. And what do men a lot of times do, in my experience, is they're constantly sizing the women's basketball players up. And so they're looking like. I could do that.

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:18:49Speaker 02

  I could beat you.

• 1:18:49Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:18:50Speaker 02

  And that is their way of like flexing that they could do it and therefore it doesn't have value.

• 1:18:54Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:18:55Speaker 02

  So that happens a lot and I think it's because basketball is just such a popular sport in our country. I can't even tell you how much I encounter that.

• 1:19:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, no one's mad at women swimming.

• 1:19:03Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:19:03Dax Shepard?

  Because no one thinks they're a good swimmer.

• 1:19:04Speaker 02

  No one thinks they're a good swimmer.

• 1:19:05Dax Shepard?

  Like I just barely swim.

• 1:19:05Speaker 02

  Soccer, Meghan doesn't get this rare, if ever, does she have a guy come up to her and be like, I could take you.

• 1:19:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:11Speaker 02

  Whereas this is like, well, if it's not an actual one-on-one game, it's a game of horse.

• 1:19:15Dax Shepard?

  Do dudes do that to you a lot?

• 1:19:16Speaker 02

  All the time. I'm constantly. Now, a lot of times friendly, they're not being jerks. It's like a friendly banter, maybe, you know, we're out at a bar. I don't know what it is, but it happens all the time.

• 1:19:27Speaker 01

  All the time.

• 1:19:27Speaker 02

  And I'm smaller. Sometimes it's someone who maybe did have a good high school career, maybe played D2, D3. And I always say, it's always my, I'm like, if I had your body, I'm like, you'd be looking at the highest paid player in the NBA.

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:40Speaker 02

  It's just that I don't, you know?

• 1:19:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:41Speaker 02

  Because there are six.

• 1:19:42Dax Shepard?

  I'm not 6'4", 2'12".

• 1:19:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:44Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:19:45Speaker 02

  Anyways.

• 1:19:45Dax Shepard?

  That's a really good take, how easily men feel emasculated.

• 1:19:49Speaker 02

  Definitely. And it just became the thing to shit on.

• 1:19:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, because I had a hot take in defense of men. It was about Taylor Swift. And it was about a very common male thing to happen was when women would find out she had given her road staff like 18 million dollars or something, which is by all accounts a radical gesture. We kept hearing, this became a topic, remember this? Men would be telling their girlfriends like, well, yeah, she makes a billion. Of course she can give 18 million. Like they couldn't latch on to how cool it was she had done that. I was like, why is that the reaction? I really need to understand what's going on in their body when they choose, I gotta bash this. And I was like, oh, I think they're like, my girlfriend and my wife loves this woman. I can't really compete with anything she does. I'm not a singer.

• 1:20:35Dax Shepard?

  And now she's really generous. Well, I'd be generous too if I had a billion dollars. It's like this weird.

• 1:20:41Speaker 02

  Put it down.

• 1:20:42Dax Shepard?

  Yes, it's like somehow they're less because Taylor had this generosity and they have to point out, well, it's not very generous. I would give someone that too if I had a billion dollars.

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  And also another one.

• 1:20:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:55Speaker 02

  And also Elon Musk is doing what he's doing with billions of dollars.

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  Yes, I know.

• 1:21:00Speaker 02

  Not to say that all men are Elon Musk, but we have questions.

• 1:21:02Dax Shepard?

  But it's like, what is going on? Why is that the standard reaction?

• 1:21:05Speaker 02

  I've been at dinners, we've been. At dinners with close friends and some of them are married couples, men, women. And there was this one topic that went around of who's the best shooter? And by the way, a lot of my friends are former athletes also, basketball players, the women are. And their husbands didn't play in college, but they played. I've seen them play, they're decent. And we went around the table, who's the best shooter at the table? I didn't get picked first. It was crazy.

• 1:21:25Dax Shepard?

  Despite the stats.

• 1:21:26Speaker 02

  Or it was, well, okay, yeah, I guess we have to pick Sue first. And I just don't know. Because she's the fucking best.

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, because that's the answer.

• 1:21:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm not even gonna go in the Steph Curry route. If they're at the table with, yeah, Jason Kidd. Not even the best of the best, but like they would ever say, well, I guess we have to put Jason first.

• 1:21:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:44Speaker 02

  Because Steph Curry, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, yeah, they'd be like, oh, of course, guys, yeah. LeBron even. So you could argue LeBron's not the greatest shooter of all time. Anyone could make that argument. And yet they would still be like, oh, LeBron's first. And I was just looking around and I was like, guys.

• 1:21:57Dax Shepard?

  Get real.

• 1:21:58Speaker 02

  What are we doing here?

• 1:21:58Dax Shepard?

  Let's go to the three point line right now.

• 1:22:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, like what's happening?

• 1:22:01Speaker 01

  For women in general, it's like, what's it going to take?

• 1:22:03Speaker 02

  Men's ball, women's ball, volleyball, beach ball, pick it, let's go. I think there is something about, and I think this generally happens in equality conversations, but there is something about women getting more rights that feels threatening. And it's like, no one's taking your rights away, men. No one's doing that. That's not inequality that we're having more rights.

• 1:22:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we're just trying to get the ones you already have.

• 1:22:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:29Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I agree, but I'll add, if I can give my most generous, good faith explanation is, these guys already feel like they can't get a woman. And they had some path in the 50s, like, well, if I go get a job and I earn some money, I'm gonna end up with one. And I think it's a little bit more of the insecurity of like, if they don't need me, will I ever have anyone? If I can be the most generous, I think a fear is driving it of like, well, if they don't need me, why would they be with me? Less than maybe, well, in practice, it would be, I don't want them to have it, so they do need me. But it's just hard to really figure out what's going on in the person. Like, what fear is actually happening that they're behaving in a way that's repugnant?

• 1:23:12Speaker 02

  Well, I do think there's something that's generally happening in America with the falsehood of the American dream of if you work hard and do X, Y, and Z, then you'll get X, Y, and Z, whether that's in a job, which is not true anymore. There used to be a path for it, and then corporations got greedy and are blaming it on immigrants, that now you can't have this pathway to have a job and have a life and success because other people are taking it. It's like, really, corporate profits have gone up crazy. So there's that part. But then there's also this part of, oh, you're a guy. These are the things that you deserve. You're entitled to. A woman. And it's like, no, nobody's entitled to anybody else. Women don't not need men. Obviously, not every woman is a gay woman. Otherwise, that would be a problem. That would be a problem. But like, you're not entitled to this other person.

• 1:23:56Speaker 02

  So what are you bringing to them?

• 1:23:59Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:23:59Speaker 02

  What are they bringing to you? The relationship is just becoming more equal. Men, I think, have historically been told, be hyper masculine, do these things, don't show any emotion. And they are going through a crisis.

• 1:24:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. We're asking for something a little different.

• 1:24:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I also am kind of like, and that's not our emotional labor to hold. That's men's. You guys have to take that on yourself and figure that out. We have to do that for ourselves while fighting against the threat that is inequality. I think men are going through a crisis. I feel that, and I see that, and I am empathetic to that. And also, we figured it out, like, under the boot, so you guys can do it.

• 1:24:37Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:24:38Speaker 01

  And I think the needs to come from men, people who have figured it out, to help these boys.

• 1:24:43Dax Shepard?

  And you, me and you.

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  I'll help.

• 1:24:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we're together doing it.

• 1:24:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You guys are so much fun.

• 1:24:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:49Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 1:24:50Dax Shepard?

  I really like you. I'm even extra ashamed that I thought it was 11, because I would have loved another 20 minutes with you both. What's the name of your podcast?

• 1:24:57Speaker 02

  A Touch More.

• 1:24:58Dax Shepard?

  A Touch More. I listen to it. You guys have a very, very good flow and dynamic that's really good for this space.

• 1:25:06Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:25:06Speaker 01

  We're learning.

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  We're figuring it out, yeah.

• 1:25:08Dax Shepard?

  It took us a good 30.

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  So many questions for you guys.

• 1:25:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  The interviewing is probably where...

• 1:25:13Speaker 02

  As two people interviewing one person. That's a dance we're getting.

• 1:25:17Speaker 01

  That's a hard thing.

• 1:25:17Dax Shepard?

  It's really hard and we've had to take the route. Two people really can't do it. If you're trying to come up with some grand arc, it's really kind of quite hard to do it that way.

• 1:25:26Speaker 02

  We're figuring that out.

• 1:25:27Dax Shepard?

  And then one other tip was just, we have found that too, it's really helpful that Monica hasn't saw the movie or read the book or done the thing because she's the audience. And if we're getting too esoteric, the guests and I, she's like, whoa, you guys missed a chapter or something. Like, what are you talking, you know?

• 1:25:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, no one's gonna follow this, so we're gonna have to.

• 1:25:43Dax Shepard?

  You need like an outsider's eyes on it almost at times.

• 1:25:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, one time I couldn't help myself and I had to watch Fargo, season five. I had to, I couldn't stop. And then during the interview, I was panicked because I was like, I don't think this is good. I don't know because I watched it and I don't think there's any way for me to be objective anymore.

• 1:26:01Speaker 02

  That's a good point.

• 1:26:02Dax Shepard?

  And then I hope you guys will make docs. Are you gonna make docs with your media company?

• 1:26:05Speaker 02

  I think so, yeah. We got a couple of cool things coming out. We adapted a book, Cleet Cute. The show is gonna be called Playing the Field.

• 1:26:11Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:26:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, Sarah Tapscott, who did College Lives of Sex Girls, New Girl. Sex Lives of College Girls. Yeah, sorry, Sex Lives of College.

• 1:26:18Dax Shepard?

  And the College Lives of Sexy Girls.

• 1:26:20Speaker 02

  Listen, honestly, one and the same. Yeah, same. She's our showrunner, so we're really excited about that one. And then we have like a reality show coming out.

• 1:26:27Dax Shepard?

  Oh, good.

• 1:26:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're excited.

• 1:26:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you're not gonna be sitting around. There'll be a shooting schedule. Schedule's in your future.

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  We have lots of schedules. You know, Google Docs and calendars.

• 1:26:38Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:26:39Speaker 02

  overwhelming.

• 1:26:40Speaker 01

  What is this? I'll be inserted in the calendar.

• 1:26:42Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 1:26:42Speaker 01

  Literally.

• 1:26:43Speaker 02

  Maybe. Wild out here in these normal worlds.

• 1:26:46Dax Shepard?

  Well, Sue and Megan, this has been so much fun. I hope you come back when you have one of these projects up and running to promote because I want more time with you guys.

• 1:26:53Speaker 02

  Definitely come back.

• 1:26:53Dax Shepard?

  You're wonderful and I liked it.

• 1:26:55Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me. Thank you. And maybe let your daughters win in horse. I think I changed my mind.

• 1:27:00Speaker 02

  I've been stewing over here.

• 1:27:01Speaker 01

  No, block them every time.

• 1:27:03Dax Shepard?

  I know where I got you. I'm like, are they really college bound? No, I'm like, oh, fuck, that's a new situation.

• 1:27:09Speaker 02

  Give them some affirmation.

• 1:27:20Dax Shepard?

  Okay, full disclaimer to the Arm Cherries. It would feel dishonest to not say. We attempted to talk about the election.

• 1:27:28Speaker 01

  You want to go back?

• 1:27:29Dax Shepard?

  Well, no, it just didn't go well. I would say that we tried. And of course, it's on our minds the most. And that seems like the topic we would be talking about. But we tried and it just, it didn't go well. So we're gonna skip that.

• 1:27:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:42Dax Shepard?

  And so it might be a short fact check, I guess, is all I'm saying. There's really no other details going on. It was election, election, election. Marsha, Marsha, Marsha.

• 1:27:51Speaker 01

  Couple of weeks ago, yeah.

• 1:27:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:27:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, and it's still on our minds.

• 1:27:56Dax Shepard?

  It's still lingering.

• 1:27:57Speaker 01

  And, um...

• 1:27:58Dax Shepard?

  Did you have to?

• 1:27:59Speaker 01

  Hope everyone's doing okay out there.

• 1:28:00Dax Shepard?

  Me too.

• 1:28:01Speaker 01

  So Sue and Meghan, very fun. Very, very, very fun. Oh, okay. So I made the mistake of saying that the friends and family discount from The Row...

• 1:28:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:14Speaker 01

  Is, like, they don't get stuff for free.

• 1:28:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you said it was small, right?

• 1:28:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's small.

• 1:28:19Dax Shepard?

  Like a five or 10%?

• 1:28:20Speaker 01

  No, I don't, I never, I don't know a percentage. Yeah, I didn't commit to any numbers. This is what I heard through the grapevine, but I don't know it for sure.

• 1:28:27Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:28:28Speaker 01

  So, and there's obviously no information on that, on the internet. Like, I don't know if Elizabeth Olsen's getting stuff for free. I hope she is.

• 1:28:35Dax Shepard?

  She must be, but they also, do you, well, let me ask you this. Do you think they're gifting to celebrities?

• 1:28:41Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:28:41Dax Shepard?

  Or they don't need to?

• 1:28:42Speaker 01

  I, I, I don't think they gift. I, they definitely, like, people will wear their stuff to red carpet things, but they don't get to keep it.

• 1:28:50Dax Shepard?

  They don't get to keep it? God.

• 1:28:53Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:28:53Dax Shepard?

  They should let, there's a couple of people they should let keep it. Cate Blanchett. Can't we let her keep it?

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  I would love that for her.

• 1:29:00Dax Shepard?

  She deserves it.

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  I wonder who they would do it for. No one.

• 1:29:06Dax Shepard?

  Wait, that reminds me. We're seeing a performance right now that is so off the charts.

• 1:29:13Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 1:29:13Dax Shepard?

  Good. What is, well, first of all, we're watching season two of The Diplomat.

• 1:29:18Speaker 01

  Oh, nice.

• 1:29:19Dax Shepard?

  Which is great. And Keri Russell...

• 1:29:21Speaker 01

  Love her. We had her on, friend of the pod, she's in the archives.

• 1:29:24Dax Shepard?

  She drank a couple beers, which is so cool. She's our only guest who slammed a couple beers while she was there.

• 1:29:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:31Dax Shepard?

  That I recall. Could be wrong.

• 1:29:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:34Dax Shepard?

  She's so consistently awesome, but that's not the one. Oh!

• 1:29:41Dax Shepard?

  I know who I want to applaud.

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:29:43Dax Shepard?

  Are you watching Escape from Dannemore?

• 1:29:46Speaker 01

  No, I'm not.

• 1:29:47Dax Shepard?

  Okay, we missed the boat.

• 1:29:49Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 1:29:50Dax Shepard?

  Big time. And I hate to admit this, but I loved, what's the other show, Ben's other show that we love?

• 1:29:57Speaker 01

  Severance, my god.

• 1:29:58Dax Shepard?

  We love Severance so much. I'm obsessed with Severance to the degree where I was like, you know what, Escape from Dannemore is probably excellent because he directed all that as well. Not all of it, but you know, he did the same thing as he's doing on Severance. It's phenomenal. And Patricia Arquette is like next level as this woman. And I found out a bunch of behind the scenes stuff. She gained and lost 50 pounds during production. The, her look, the way it changes, her, she is so dialed into this person. It's so, the show's phenomenal. I didn't even realize Benicio del Toro is one of the leads.

• 1:30:35Speaker 01

  Hmm, he's awesome.

• 1:30:36Dax Shepard?

  What an enigma. What is he doing? Why doesn't he work? How, I need to talk to him and understand.

• 1:30:41Speaker 01

  He works when he wants.

• 1:30:42Dax Shepard?

  And he works the hell out of it when he does. He's so fucking interesting. And then Paul Dano's fantastic. Everyone's, it's, it's a great, great show that we missed. I think because it was on Showtime. That's my explanation. But now it's on Netflix. You see, it's like, it was number two.

• 1:31:00Speaker 01

  Okay, I'll have to check it out.

• 1:31:03Dax Shepard?

  I've had this. I was about to say it must be so rewarding, but I've had this with Chips, where all of a sudden Chips was climbing up to number one or two in movies over, you know, and to come out years before. It's such a fun thing.

• 1:31:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:14Dax Shepard?

  I wonder from Ben's perspective, what it's like to have this show that was out 10 years ago, that's like number two on Netflix.

• 1:31:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, have fun.

• 1:31:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And probably more people are seeing it now than ever saw it in its first run.

• 1:31:27Speaker 01

  I am gonna watch it. I need a new show.

• 1:31:29Dax Shepard?

  To be able to play Alabama Worley at one point in her life, you don't know that character, do you?

• 1:31:36Dax Shepard?

  True Romance? True Romance. Alabama Whirly. Unbelievable. Ooh. And now does he play this character? What a gap between those two characters.

• 1:31:47Speaker 01

  Also, um, we haven't had her, but we have interviewed David Arquette, her brother.

• 1:31:52Dax Shepard?

  And that didn't help.

• 1:31:53Speaker 01

  He's in the archives.

• 1:31:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he's in the archives. Check him out.

• 1:31:56Speaker 01

  Just like.

• 1:31:57Dax Shepard?

  Just like a minute or two, yeah.

• 1:31:58Speaker 01

  A minute or two with Keri Russell and.

• 1:32:01Dax Shepard?

  Oh, right. They're all.

• 1:32:02Speaker 01

  Actually, that David Arquette interview is a beautiful interview.

• 1:32:05Dax Shepard?

  It is.

• 1:32:06Speaker 01

  He is a very special person.

• 1:32:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:08Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm gonna watch that. Wait, why'd we get on subject of friends and family discount?

• 1:32:14Dax Shepard?

  Elizabeth Holstein, Kate Blanchett, uh, actors that should get free row merchandise.

• 1:32:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So add Patty Arquette to the list.

• 1:32:22Speaker 01

  I think Elizabeth gets free stuff. I hope so.

• 1:32:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I think she probably does. If she wears it. Might be an act of rebellion.

• 1:32:31Speaker 01

  No, she supports her sisters.

• 1:32:32Dax Shepard?

  They love each other, probably.

• 1:32:34Speaker 01

  Anyway, so I don't want it to come off like they're not generous.

• 1:32:37Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:32:38Speaker 01

  Cause I don't know about their generosity.

• 1:32:39Dax Shepard?

  The real number or anything? You just, in general, you wanna say, maybe it is a really nice one.

• 1:32:45Speaker 01

  Maybe it's 90%.

• 1:32:46Dax Shepard?

  You know, if you followed a bunch of car, uh, accounts like I do on Instagram, you would have heard, uh, Porsche recently ended their friends and family discount for employees.

• 1:32:59Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:33:00Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and the number was staggering because Porsches are generally hard to get. You, there's not a bunch of them at the dealership. You gotta order one, you gotta wait and all this stuff. So everyone that can get one, those executives, they all get one. Cause they're ultimately end up being worth more and they're, you know. So, but it was in the tens of millions of dollars that they saved on the bottom line by getting rid of that. They're like, no more, no more cheap Porsches for people who work here.

• 1:33:27Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:33:27Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:33:28Speaker 01

  That makes me kinda sad, though. They put in the time, they're representing their company.

• 1:33:32Dax Shepard?

  It makes me sad too because also I grew up in a family that had the GM discount.

• 1:33:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:36Dax Shepard?

  Which was relevant, although often it was the same as whatever sale they were running, but in general, it was good. But I will say it's a slightly different business model, which is GM's making millions and millions of cars. Porsche is making a very finite amount of cars.

• 1:33:49Speaker 01

  True.

• 1:33:49Dax Shepard?

  And so, you know, at some point, if you go like, well. I don't know what the percentage was. Well, let's say 8% of our cars are just going to our own employees at this discount. This is untenable.

• 1:33:59Speaker 01

  I guess so.

• 1:34:00Dax Shepard?

  I think they decided it was untenable.

• 1:34:02Speaker 01

  Huh, that's interesting because I also wonder how many people can have, like, how many people aren't getting Porsches that would have got them? Probably not that many.

• 1:34:12Dax Shepard?

  Well, right, these are highly paid German employees of Porsche. The Germans pay well. They pay their folks good.

• 1:34:20Speaker 01

  Well, no, sorry, I guess I mean like because like they're giving these, in their head, they're giving these Porsches away to their employees.

• 1:34:28Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:34:29Speaker 01

  And it's not good because other people.

• 1:34:32Dax Shepard?

  It can't be a business that just builds cars for their employees at no profit.

• 1:34:36Speaker 01

  But are people who would buy a Porsche, not their employees, regular people who would buy a Porsche, are they not able to buy the Porsche?

• 1:34:44Dax Shepard?

  Well, I think it's that it's a supply issue with Porsche.

• 1:34:47Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:34:47Dax Shepard?

  If it were like Tesla where they can make 100,000 a month, they go, no problem. They turn the dial up on the machine.

• 1:34:54Speaker 01

  Right, okay.

• 1:34:55Dax Shepard?

  But I think they're having like supply issues and then they're going like, okay, well, we're selling a significant percentage of these to our own employees at this.

• 1:35:03Speaker 01

  Makes sense.

• 1:35:04Dax Shepard?

  Cut through.

• 1:35:05Speaker 01

  That's not a dream car for me.

• 1:35:07Dax Shepard?

  None of them.

• 1:35:08Speaker 01

  Porsche is not.

• 1:35:09Dax Shepard?

  What about like the four doors? None of those appeal to you?

• 1:35:12Speaker 01

  They're all, they look very pretty, but it, it doesn't feel like it's my personality.

• 1:35:17Dax Shepard?

  So the one that I have been bouncing around about is I don't think their electric cars are selling well. The Taycans.

• 1:35:26Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:35:26Dax Shepard?

  Which are the only electric car I've ever driven that I loved. Where I was like, oh, I love this car. Forget electric, non-electric. This is a phenomenal car. Bill Gates recommended. That was the one. And then I reviewed one on Top Gear and I loved it. So that planted a seed. Then they came out, Monica, with a fucking shooting brake style, a wagon. So they make a Taycan now in a wagon profile.

• 1:35:49Speaker 01

  Electric?

• 1:35:50Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and you know I love station wagons.

• 1:35:53Speaker 01

  You do.

• 1:35:54Dax Shepard?

  And they're really discounted.

• 1:35:57Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:35:58Dax Shepard?

  Like shockingly discounted right now. And so for about six weeks, I spend at least 20 minutes of my day talking myself out of buying a Taycan station wagon. I'm like, oh, these are, I'll give you my argument when I'm convincing myself. Well, they're practically free. I mean, I think they're half off right now. It's such a good value. Also, I should have an electric car. It'd be great if I reduce my carbon footprint a little, do a little bit.

• 1:36:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:23Dax Shepard?

  These are all like, now it sounds like I've got like a ethical cause on my hands, right?

• 1:36:27Speaker 01

  You're on a moral high ground.

• 1:36:28Dax Shepard?

  I'm on a moral crusade to buy this car.

• 1:36:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:33Dax Shepard?

  And then I go, no, no Dex, you, you don't need another car. You don't even have time to drive another car. It would be another vehicle sitting here that needs to be maintained and serviced. And you don't want that. That's not going to up your enjoyment of life.

• 1:36:46Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 1:36:47Dax Shepard?

  But then, but then an hour later, I'm like, God, I saw one in red. I should really get one that's a wagon in red.

• 1:36:53Speaker 01

  Also, I mean, it's probably good to get the electric car now while it's half off.

• 1:36:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:02Speaker 04

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 1:37:15Speaker 01

  Well, my next car is definitely going to be electric.

• 1:37:17Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:37:18Speaker 01

  I'm gonna-

• 1:37:18Dax Shepard?

  Well, you should think about getting a Taycan, um, Taycan-

• 1:37:21Speaker 01

  Station wagon?

• 1:37:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:24Speaker 01

  It's not really on brand for me.

• 1:37:26Dax Shepard?

  What part?

• 1:37:27Speaker 01

  Station wagon.

• 1:37:28Dax Shepard?

  Cause you're not cool? I think you're very cool.

• 1:37:30Speaker 01

  I'm not cool enough to drive a station wagon.

• 1:37:32Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I don't, I, you know, we disagree on your coolness.

• 1:37:35Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 1:37:36Dax Shepard?

  I think you can pull off shaved side. I think an AMG is for you.

• 1:37:40Speaker 01

  An AMG is for me because it's a sedan ultimately.

• 1:37:46Dax Shepard?

  I think it's only-

• 1:37:47Speaker 01

  It's a chic sedan.

• 1:37:47Dax Shepard?

  For you because it just landed in your lap and you started driving and you're like, yeah, I feel great in this. I don't think you would have gone to the dealership and picked that out.

• 1:37:54Speaker 01

  I wouldn't have picked an AMG.

• 1:37:55Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:37:56Speaker 01

  I would have picked-

• 1:37:57Dax Shepard?

  The normal sedan.

• 1:37:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. But it turns out you're definitely pulling off an AMG. And when I hear you start your car down the block, I'm like, what a badass.

• 1:38:07Speaker 01

  But all I'm doing is pressing a button.

• 1:38:09Dax Shepard?

  I know, but it's rumbles.

• 1:38:10Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:38:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:12Speaker 01

  Anyway, I do.

• 1:38:13Dax Shepard?

  Do you like the sound of it when it starts?

• 1:38:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:17Speaker 01

  Well.

• 1:38:17Dax Shepard?

  I'm just wondering if that even appeals to you. Is that part of the visceral thing?

• 1:38:21Speaker 01

  I kind of don't hear it anymore. Yeah. When I first was doing it, I was embarrassed.

• 1:38:27Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  And now it was really loud. It felt a little.

• 1:38:32Dax Shepard?

  Toxic.

• 1:38:33Speaker 01

  A little toxic, a little toxic. But now I don't even hear it, which is interesting because it's not like it went down. People still can hear it. I just can't.

• 1:38:44Dax Shepard?

  When I start my wagon, my AMG wagon, I have a full 30 seconds of euphoria.

• 1:38:50Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:38:51Dax Shepard?

  I'm like, the way that low rumbles is so pleasing.

• 1:38:55Speaker 01

  The other day I was somewhere and some car was driving by and it was so loud.

• 1:39:00Dax Shepard?

  Obnoxiously loud.

• 1:39:01Speaker 01

  And I was, I was.

• 1:39:03Dax Shepard?

  Irritated.

• 1:39:04Speaker 01

  So angry about it.

• 1:39:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:39:07Speaker 01

  It felt so disturbing and so entitled. Why do you get to, why do you feel like you can ruin everyone's day?

• 1:39:17Dax Shepard?

  Because that person loves that sound. So they're not thinking you don't love the sound. They're assuming you love the sound. They love the sound.

• 1:39:24Speaker 01

  Do you think most people love like extremely loud sounds?

• 1:39:30Dax Shepard?

  I can't, I don't know what most people think. I know that me and my guy friends all love the sound of an AMG. We love the sound.

• 1:39:37Speaker 01

  This is like times, this is not like the sound of an AMG.

• 1:39:40Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:39:41Speaker 01

  This is times 4,000.

• 1:39:43Dax Shepard?

  I think the best example everyone can relate to is a Harley. That's also a very polarizing sound for people.

• 1:39:49Speaker 01

  Very loud, too loud.

• 1:39:50Dax Shepard?

  I remember Mike Judge going on and on for like 20 minutes of how annoyed he is at this group that rides by his house. And there's like 50 of them. He's like, you know, how much attention do these guys need? You know, he's like really going, they're all solid points. And at the end of it, I just had, I would have felt fraudulent. I go, I know I'm one of those guys. I love that sound. And I love when I hear a pack of bikes go by. I just love it.

• 1:40:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:12Dax Shepard?

  Teach their own is the saying, I think.

• 1:40:14Speaker 01

  Teach their own. Oh, okay. She mentioned, uh, Meghan mentioned her sister who was sick. She had like really bad anemia and she said her hemoglobin levels were like one or two. And, and that sounded really bad, but I also didn't know what normal levels are. Yes. For men, they should be between thirteen point two to sixteen point six.

• 1:40:36Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:40:37Speaker 01

  And for women, eleven point six to fifteen.

• 1:40:40Dax Shepard?

  Okay. So there's some overlap. Thirteen to fifteen is some male female overlap.

• 1:40:47Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Exactly.

• 1:40:49Dax Shepard?

  That's one of the side effects thing can happen to people on testosterone replacement therapy.

• 1:40:55Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:40:56Dax Shepard?

  Their hemoglobin can get too high.

• 1:40:58Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:40:58Dax Shepard?

  Eric's had this.

• 1:41:00Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:41:00Dax Shepard?

  Mine's never, that's never been a side effect I had luckily, but for some people that can happen. And then the, you know what the solution is?

• 1:41:09Speaker 01

  Donuts.

• 1:41:10Dax Shepard?

  Donate blood.

• 1:41:11Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:41:12Dax Shepard?

  You go donate some blood and then it lowers it all to normal.

• 1:41:15Speaker 01

  Wow. That's cool. Okay. Speaking of medicines, I started my statin.

• 1:41:20Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you did? Congratulations. When did you start it? How many days ago?

• 1:41:23Speaker 01

  Uh, probably a week ago at this point.

• 1:41:26Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:41:27Speaker 01

  Maybe a little more than that.

• 1:41:28Dax Shepard?

  You're feeling any?

• 1:41:29Speaker 01

  Feeling fine.

• 1:41:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I don't think you can feel any difference.

• 1:41:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. You can have, there's like, you're supposed to look out for leg numbness.

• 1:41:38Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:41:39Speaker 01

  Which I don't.

• 1:41:39Dax Shepard?

  And muscle pain?

• 1:41:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, like mu, maybe muscle stuff. I don't know. I haven't felt anything like that. I do think my appetite has gone down.

• 1:41:50Dax Shepard?

  You, I think that's the stress.

• 1:41:53Speaker 01

  Of our life?

• 1:41:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, of, yeah, the, the last week.

• 1:41:56Speaker 01

  But I also, I looked it up and it is a side effect.

• 1:41:59Dax Shepard?

  Really?

• 1:42:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. It can be a appetite suppressant or like a, it makes you feel full. You know that?

• 1:42:05Dax Shepard?

  Oh my God. It's like, um.

• 1:42:07Speaker 01

  Ozempic.

• 1:42:08Dax Shepard?

  I was gonna say it's like over the counter. Well, it's not over the counter, but.

• 1:42:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:11Dax Shepard?

  It was like another.

• 1:42:12Speaker 01

  And I'm only taking half right now. I hope my doctor doesn't hear this.

• 1:42:15Dax Shepard?

  Okay. See where that gets you?

• 1:42:16Speaker 01

  But Dr. Richard Isaacson said I could start with half.

• 1:42:20Dax Shepard?

  I had my first, did I already brag about this? My last hormone labs, which were like a month ago.

• 1:42:26Speaker 01

  And they were perfect.

• 1:42:28Dax Shepard?

  Well, I was under the cholesterol by a like. I've never been on, I haven't been under since I've been getting it checked.

• 1:42:35Speaker 01

  Right. That's great.

• 1:42:36Dax Shepard?

  Oh my, I didn't think this was a possibility.

• 1:42:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's surprising because you eat so much red meat.

• 1:42:42Dax Shepard?

  I know, but it's really not that. It's like your genetics.

• 1:42:45Speaker 01

  Well, genetics is a huge thing, but red meat can really affect it. And it can bring it down a ton if you cut it out.

• 1:42:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:51Speaker 01

  But for you, I guess it doesn't matter.

• 1:42:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, my N1 experiment of having been vegan for a year and my cholesterol didn't move at all.

• 1:42:58Speaker 01

  Callie's mom went vegan and it completely fixed her cholesterol.

• 1:43:01Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 1:43:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I think that happens for people. I think if people don't have the genetic disposition where it's like they're just naturally high, which my whole family has been naturally high. Um, when I did it with diet, it didn't really do anything.

• 1:43:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:43:13Dax Shepard?

  I can have a lot of fiber. It doesn't really do much.

• 1:43:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:17Dax Shepard?

  So the red yeast, and then now I'm on a new, instead of a statin, uh, which blocks it somehow, there's a way to block the absorption. So I'm on a different one that blocks absorption.

• 1:43:30Speaker 01

  And how's that going?

• 1:43:31Dax Shepard?

  Really good. I mean, I had gotten myself to where I was already just teetering unhealthy.

• 1:43:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:35Dax Shepard?

  But this put me into like positively healthy.

• 1:43:39Speaker 01

  Wow, that's great.

• 1:43:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, thank you, Dr. Richard Isaacson.

• 1:43:42Speaker 01

  It's really helping us out.

• 1:43:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. My internist asked if he could get enrolled in that study. And so did my mom.

• 1:43:51Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. It's a hot study.

• 1:43:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. It's the hot study to be in in 2024.

• 1:43:55Speaker 01

  It is. Ellie the Elephant, they were talking about is the mascot.

• 1:43:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, in New York.

• 1:44:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I did look her up. She does look really cool. And she does twerk and she dances and she like flips her hair. She's very cool.

• 1:44:09Dax Shepard?

  Well, funny enough, I would have never known anything about Ellie the Elephant. Except for when I was in New York a couple of weeks ago, I was watching the news and there was a whole thing about Ellie the Elephant. And I was like, oh my God, this is the thing they're talking about. The city is obsessed with Ellie the Elephant.

• 1:44:22Speaker 01

  That's so funny.

• 1:44:23Dax Shepard?

  She was on the nightly news.

• 1:44:24Speaker 01

  Wow. Is Sue, does she have the record for the longest player in the WNBA? She's one of Sue and Diana Taurasi. As of October 2024, Sue Bird led the all-time list of games played in Women's National Basketball Association. Let's see what that number is. Bird played 580 games for the franchise.

• 1:44:50Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:44:51Speaker 01

  Diana, as of September, has a sec, had the second at 565.

• 1:44:56Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:44:56Speaker 01

  But maybe.

• 1:44:57Dax Shepard?

  You could be in longer.

• 1:44:59Speaker 01

  Uh huh, true.

• 1:45:00Dax Shepard?

  And played less games.

• 1:45:02Speaker 01

  True.

• 1:45:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you could have an injury and be out for a season. You're still, that's a year you were in the WNBA, but you were out.

• 1:45:08Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 1:45:08Dax Shepard?

  Fifty games.

• 1:45:09Speaker 01

  But I think this is how they quantify.

• 1:45:12Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:45:13Speaker 01

  It. Well, that's cool.

• 1:45:15Dax Shepard?

  Yep.

• 1:45:15Speaker 01

  That's it for Sue and Megan. Not many facts, just fun.

• 1:45:18Dax Shepard?

  Lot of fun. Light on facts.

• 1:45:21Speaker 01

  Heavy on fun.

• 1:45:21Dax Shepard?

  Heavy on fun.

• 1:45:22Speaker 01

  And heavy on information. It is really cool to have these women who represent women's sports and know a lot about it.

• 1:45:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:45:30Speaker 01

  The inside and obviously objectively and subjectively, I would say.

• 1:45:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:34Speaker 01

  And she, Sue, said that you could let the girls win at basketball. She turned a corner on that.

• 1:45:39Dax Shepard?

  She switched mid-interview.

• 1:45:41Speaker 01

  She did.

• 1:45:41Dax Shepard?

  I wonder if when she left, she was like, well, now I regret switching, actually.

• 1:45:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's been back and forth since then.

• 1:45:46Dax Shepard?

  I think the key was, I think she would keep her original opinion if your child had expressed a goal to end up in a professional sport. I think the turning point was me saying like, they're not in route.

• 1:45:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:59Dax Shepard?

  To any professional organization.

• 1:46:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:02Dax Shepard?

  So.

• 1:46:03Speaker 01

  So what's the point?

• 1:46:03Dax Shepard?

  What's the point?

• 1:46:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:05Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:46:06Dax Shepard?

  All right. I love you.

• 1:46:07Speaker 01

  Love you.

• 1:46:23Dax Shepard?

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