I Will Soon Be an Empty Nester (And I’m Dreading It)

On today’s episode, we hear about: · A mom struggling with the reality of becoming an empty nester soon · A wife wanting to let go of bitterness toward her husband · A woman wondering how to be a caregiver without feeling resentful Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Get 15% off with code DELONY at Bon Charge. Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth.  Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi.  Get 25% off your order at Thorne.  Go to Trainwell to get started! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  I'm having an irrational response to becoming an empty nester and I cry at the drop of a hat when I pass by a ballpark where we made a lot of memories and I want to look forward to the future, but when I do, it seems empty and quiet and not as fulfilling as motherhood.

• 0:20Dr. John Delony?

  Man, that's a lot of pressure you've put on yourself, huh? What up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, taking your calls on your marriage, your mental and emotional health, whatever you've got going on in your life. Over the last year or so, the calls on this show have gotten increasingly wild and so is our world. Everything's getting wild. I don't even know if it's real anymore, but I do know this. I know that it's real when I sit down and talk to a real person going through real challenges in their life. If you want to be on this show, I'd love to talk to you also. Go to John Deloney, D E L O N Y, JohnDeloney.com/ask, A S K, and we'll get you on. Let's go to Denver, Colorado.

• 1:05Dr. John Delony?

  I just flew in from Denver, Colorado last night. Let's talk to Danielle. Hey Danielle, what's up?

• 1:10Speaker 00

  Hi, John. I'm having an irrational response to becoming an empty nester and I want to change it. I've been a mother for 20 years and my last two are twins and they're leaving the nest or our house in a year from now, so they're going to be seniors next year. And I cry at the drop of a hat when I think about my house being empty or I pass by a ballpark where we made a lot of memories and I want to look forward to the future, but when I do, it seems empty and quiet and not as fulfilling as motherhood. I feel as though my best year, the best years of my life have already been spent.

• 1:49Dr. John Delony?

  Man, that's a lot of pressure you've put on yourself, huh?

• 2:02Speaker 00

  I don't know. I just, I don't know why I'm so emotional about this and it's not even here yet.

• 2:07Dr. John Delony?

  Can I tell you why? Because your kids, you have a year left. Let me tell you this. You are exactly where you should be right now. Please, on behalf of your soul, on behalf of your physiology, on your body, on behalf of your marriage, on behalf of your kids, don't try to work around this next year. Just walk right through it. You're supposed to cry at diaper commercials. They make them that way. They make them that way. And you're supposed to look at ball fields and remember your kids being really little. And you're supposed to be super terrified about what comes next. All that's right. It's

• 2:50Dr. John Delony?

  all good. And I know we have a culture that says like, what are you doing next? What are you doing next? Man, here's what I don't want you to do. I don't want you to squash your emotions and your feelings this next year. I don't want you to numb yourself through this next year and miss a magic season in anticipation of, or this pressure you put on yourself, which is, this is it. After this, it's just downhill after that. Tell me about your marriage.

• 3:21Speaker 00

  Well, my husband's a rock star. He is just, he just runs to it anytime I have any kind of, I often cry on my way home from work and I try not to be crying when I get home. And he's always like, you know, it's okay. And he has big plans for our future. And I have lots of hobbies and things that I do. And he, he's wonderful. He's like, we're gonna get all the college merch and we're gonna go visit them and we're gonna do care packages. He's super positive and

• 3:55Dr. John Delony?

  But this isn't about that, is it? This is about identity, huh?

• 4:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, I want to be a good wife to him because he's such a great partner.

• 4:05Dr. John Delony?

  Stop, stop, stop, stop. You're a good wife. Just because you cry, you're the emotional center of that house. He's the doer. But you're the feeler. And that's an important role you play. You're not less of a spouse or a partner. You know what you're giving him? You're giving him a magic gift, which is something to do with all of his frenetic energy. He's just a male, and we're not allowed to cry. So he's like, you're giving him a list of things to do. What a gift you're giving him. You're crying tears that he doesn't have permission to cry. You're a great wife and mom. I'm more interested in the transition that you're feeling from mother to what you think your new identity is gonna be. Does it scare you?

• 4:51Speaker 00

  Yes, because I feel like I'm really good at being a mom. But that's...

• 5:04Dr. John Delony?

  You're all right, you're all right.

• 5:08Speaker 00

  I don't know if I'm real good at other things. Sorry, at other things. Like, I just feel like that's the one thing I'm really good at.

• 5:21Dr. John Delony?

  What makes you think you're not a good wife?

• 5:25Speaker 00

  Well, I think I am a good wife, but I'm, this is so out of character, that I'm sad all the time. And so I want to be, I don't want to be this way. Like, I don't want to feel this way. And I thought, well, maybe I'll call in and you could give me some insight into...

• 5:39Dr. John Delony?

  No, I'm gonna tell you to feel all of this way. You should be sad. And by the way, having worked with moms and dads in your exact position for two decades plus...

• 5:54Dr. John Delony?

  You're about to enter into what I think is just my opinion. I'm not there yet, but my opinion that I've seen is that you're about to enter into the funnest season. Maybe not the most purposeful feeling and maybe not the most, I feel necessary, but the best season, the funnest season, which is you get to make that transition from brush your teeth, did you change your underwear? I need your laundry done? Have you done your math homework? To more of finally, more of a influence, more of a friend, more of a like a companion relationship. And here's what I, here's why like my heart is so full right now.

• 6:38Dr. John Delony?

  There is a rash, like a gnarly epidemic of kids leaving home and they don't want to be there and their parents don't want, don't want to be around them. And then they get married, they have kids and there's just these families that are separate. And if you and your husband are, I mean, he's already making plans like, dude, we're going to be at the games. We're going to go down there and be those weird college parents wearing like, I'm a whatever dad and I'm a whatever mom. Making that transition is different and it's painful, but it's so fun if you'll let it be. Do you think you don't have a role to play in your house after motherhood? Or let me take that back.

• 7:19Dr. John Delony?

  You're always going to be a mom after the daily grind of moming it every day.

• 7:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know what I'm going to do. I'll still work and I have, I have like girlfriends and hobbies and things like that, but none of it seems as fulfilling as, you know, I'm on the, I'm the booster club president. I'm on all kinds of committees at the school. I'm at the school a lot and, and, and I do stuff with our church and, and I'll still do the things with our church, but I just, it's just going to be vastly different and.

• 7:54Dr. John Delony?

  So most, most, most people, if you get into the, the change literature, most people don't feel change. They feel, they, they fear loss.

• 8:06Dr. John Delony?

  And it would probably be a helpful thing for you because right now it's all swirling around. And it feels like I'm losing my kids, I'm losing my purpose, I'm losing my role in all of these different committees, I'm losing, losing, losing, losing. And it's the loss of everything that compounds on top of itself. Not to mention, let's just be honest, dude, you're gonna walk down the hallway and the lights are gonna be off in those rooms. And so, I guess what I would tell you is, the way anxiety works, the way that fear works, is you have to walk right through it. Your husband even is going around it. You're sitting at the, at the, at the starting line, you just wanna sit there. He's not running the race, he's just like off in the yard somewhere. Like, "We're gonna do this, we're gonna do this." Both of y'all.

• 8:49Dr. John Delony?

  I would love for y'all to sit down and write down, what are you scared of losing? And then talk about that with each other. And some of that stuff you'll backfill. And then some of that stuff y'all get to co-create together. But right now, your tears are not something that, like, he needs to fix, they're not something that tells you that you're wrong, you're just supposed to be sad. It's just okay and right. And it may be worth, tell me about your kids, they're, they're about to be seniors and they're twins?

• 9:22Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 9:23Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, tell me about them.

• 9:24Speaker 00

  I have, I have an older kid that's already in college.

• 9:26Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 9:28Speaker 00

  So, we live in a pretty small town and they're, they're both three sport athletes and they're involved in all kinds of clubs and 4H and, and all of those things. So we're just, um, our life is very, very, very full.

• 9:43Dr. John Delony?

  So it would be awesome, so I wonder if you're, if you're just projecting out a year from now, like, what am I gonna do? Who am I gonna be? What's my value gonna be? All those things are real, scary. I would love for you and your husband to sit down and say, "Here's all the stuff that we think we're gonna lose next year." And let's, don't go around it, let's just walk right through it, together. And then over the next year, you can begin, like, little breadcrumbs, dreaming about what comes next. We're gonna hold that all loosely, because it might change. And then, I want you to do something really strong and powerful, okay?

• 10:18Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 10:19Dr. John Delony?

  Take both of your kids out, I might tell you to do this differently if they weren't twins, but there's something unique about twins. I would take them both out and just tell them, "I'm gonna cry all year."

• 10:32Dr. John Delony?

  And it's because I miss you guys. I've loved the life that we've all created together. But just know, you don't have to fix me. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna miss you. I'm gonna miss all this fun and all this insanity and my life's gonna be different. But let them know that you're not a problem to be fixed. And that every tear they see is just another sign that mom really, really loves them. And mom's gonna miss them as their, as your relationship with them transforms.

• 10:55Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 10:55Dr. John Delony?

  But, but if you take them out and say it out loud to another person, you share this with a witness, or two witnesses in this case. Take your husband out, all four of y'all go. Then just, it, it, it gets it out of the air and then you don't have to feel so, so ashamed if you cry. You, they get to feel like, oh, mom really loves us. Just tell me if I'm wrong, some of your tears come from how hard you try to hold them back all the time. And they build and they build. And then you drive by the wrong ballpark and then it just, braaah!

• 11:30Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh. It's ridiculous.

• 11:32Dr. John Delony?

  It's not ridiculous.

• 11:33Speaker 00

  If someone brings it up, I start crying.

• 11:34Dr. John Delony?

  It's awesome.

• 11:35Speaker 00

  And I just, I don't wanna be a crybaby all the time. I don't normally cry like this and I just feel like it's this weird physical response I'm having that's not normal.

• 11:46Dr. John Delony?

  It's the most normal thing possible. Your last two babies are about to go off into the, who knows what. How old are you?

• 11:58Speaker 00

  I'm 51.

• 11:59Dr. John Delony?

  51? Alright. There's no chance that hormones are being crazy right now either, right?

• 12:06Speaker 00

  That's what my husband said. He said, I don't think you're supposed to send your kids off to college and go through menopause at the same time.

• 12:14Dr. John Delony?

  Well, it's happening. So, also, go see a doctor too.

• 12:19Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 12:20Dr. John Delony?

  But do not, don't go see a doctor to try to make you feel less sad.

• 12:27Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 12:28Dr. John Delony?

  Do go see a doctor if one morning you wake up and your body feels like you got run over by a truck and then the next morning you wake up and you feel like a million bucks and the next day after that you're just sobbing on the in the floor saying I'm gonna be the worst wife ever. That's a sign when it just looks like a heart monitor up and down that you want to go talk to somebody. And they finally, finally, after one of the most cruel things in human history with those awful bull crap,

• 12:58Dr. John Delony?

  hormone replacement equals cancer stories that they made up and sold women for a century. That all that stuff's going away now. And so there's some amazing support you can get from your doctor that won't take away the hurt and won't take away the pain and I don't want that to go away for you. And it will make you feel less insane.

• 13:19Speaker 00

  Okay. Thank you.

• 13:21Dr. John Delony?

  But listen, I would love to see your family make a plan for this year and the plan's gonna include fun and the plan might include I'm taking each one of you to breakfast, one on a Tuesday, one on a Thursday, and you're just gonna have to deal because I'm gonna cry a lot. And husband is gonna go around and try to fix everything and buy everything and getting y'all's business. This is just two parents showing you through our chaotic actions how much we love you and how much we're gonna miss you.

• 13:49Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 13:50Dr. John Delony?

  And when you see a little eek, I, my son's 15, he's got three years. I just picked him up before this show. I picked him up after his last final of his freshman year.

• 14:01Dr. John Delony?

  And the only thing I could do was keep shoving him in the arm, yelling in the car, you're a sophomore now, you're a sophomore now. And that's how I kept myself from crying.

• 14:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:11Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm not gonna apologize for it because I love that kid and I love being around him. And he's become, he's turning into an amazing young man. I'm gonna miss him. I'm gonna miss the change in my life.

• 14:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:22Dr. John Delony?

  And if I let myself

• 14:25Dr. John Delony?

  getting to just do whatever I want and I have to pick up anybody from school, that's gonna be kinda awesome, right? It's both and.

• 14:34Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 14:36Dr. John Delony?

  Repeat after me. I'm not crazy.

• 14:40Speaker 00

  I'm not crazy.

• 14:40Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm a, I'm a pretty amazing wife.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  I'm an amazing wife.

• 14:47Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm gonna cry my eyes out this year, and that's right and good.

• 14:52Speaker 00

  I'm gonna cry my eyes out this year, and that's right and good.

• 14:55Dr. John Delony?

  There you go. Hey, listen, you call anytime this year, anytime you want to call, call me, and if you want to have your kids call me and be like, how do I deal with my sobbing mom? Have them call me, and if you and your husband want to call in too, call anytime. This is a magic year for you. Feel the whole thing. And if you're 51 and things are going up and down all around, go see your doctor. We're just in a sliver of history, and we've got some amazing, amazing support for folks

• 15:26Dr. John Delony?

  as their bodies change, as they get older. Thank you so, so much for the call. We come up next, a woman seeks guidance on overcoming bitterness about her husband's career mistakes.

• 15:38Dr. John Delony?

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• 16:20Dr. John Delony?

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• 18:19Dr. John Delony?

  Dallas, Texas. Let's talk to Kaylee. What's up, Kaylee?

• 18:23Speaker 02

  Hi, Dr. John.

• 18:24Dr. John Delony?

  How are you?

• 18:26Speaker 02

  You know, just trying to let go of some bitterness.

• 18:31Dr. John Delony?

  That's the most Dallas thing I've ever heard. All right, so what's going on?

• 18:35Speaker 02

  Well, so my question for you is, how do I let go of some bitterness or resentment towards my husband about, like, poor career decisions he made a few years ago?

• 18:46Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about it.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  Well, okay, so first of all, he did not do anything illegal or immoral or behind my back. I just want to put that out there. Um, but, uh, so some background, my husband and I have been married for about seven years. And for the first four and a half, five years of our marriage, he was in the Marine Corps. Um, and so I don't know how many veterans you've dealt with, but the transition out of the military, um, is like a big piece of this story. Um, so coming out of the military, he found like a short-term job working in sports, social media. Um, it was a lot of fun. It was something he really enjoyed, but it didn't translate into anything long-term.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  Um, so then against my better judgment, um, and maybe his own, he took a job in commission on these sales. And that was a really, really tough year, um, really tough.

• 19:45Dr. John Delony?

  Emotionally or financially or both?

• 19:48Speaker 02

  Bu- both, both. And, um, you know, it was one of those things that I am still, I think, also kicking myself for like, oh, I don't want to say allowing, but kind of allowing that to go on as long as it did. Um, so then after that, he, when I basically said to him about a year into commission on these sales, like, honey, you're not making any money. We can't keep doing this. Um, then he found his way to like a part-time job in a, like a major retail chain just to have some money coming in. Um, and then that translated into a full-time job at said retail chain.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  And that's what he's doing now. Um, but it's, it's not, he doesn't love it. It's, you know, it's kind of blah, but it's, it's an okay fit for now because we have good benefits and we have a young family and so on. Um, but I think I'm still holding on to a lot of like tension from that year of commission only sales.

• 20:57Dr. John Delony?

  So is the job the proxy?

• 21:01Dr. John Delony?

  Meaning, are you able to look at the job and be upset with him about the job when really he was pretty ugly to you? Or?

• 21:09Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 21:10Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  I think we've had some really ugly conversations about it.

• 21:16Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about it. Tell me about those.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  Well, maybe some anger, maybe some blaming, maybe some denial.

• 21:24Dr. John Delony?

  On your part or his part?

• 21:26Speaker 02

  I think both. I think the fact that he kept up, he kept getting up and doing this job for a year. You know, I think there was denial on, on both of our parts.

• 21:35Dr. John Delony?

  But hold, hold on, hold on, hold on. How old are you?

• 21:38Speaker 02

  Thirty-one.

• 21:39Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. I, I guess let me back all the way out. It's, it's very, very common. Very common. And you know this because this is y'all's community. Especially a Marine. They get out and they get home. And they're, and they're just full civilian life.

• 21:59Dr. John Delony?

  Number one, they're told this from day one. Number two, many of them have this lived experience. That you can do anything now that you have this training, this support network and this skillset.

• 22:14Dr. John Delony?

  It's also very easy to think, if I did X, Y, and Z, I was deployed, I was doing all this stuff behind the scenes, I was living this rigorous of a life, dude, I can go sell any, I can do anything.

• 22:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:26Dr. John Delony?

  And so there's something to be said for. A really powerful, important lesson. Of finding out, oh, this isn't for me. And so as you're telling me this story, I keep thinking, what a frickin' heroic guy to get up day after day to a job that has one marker in it of success, and that is dollars.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:49Dr. John Delony?

  And to try and try and try and try. And it might be that you're wrestling with, I married a guy that could do anything. And you don't have a psychology for finding out there's a thing he can't do. I don't, I don't know what it is. But I'm hearing a guy that's, that I think's pretty damn heroic, and I'm hearing a guy who, thank God he has a wife in his life, who spoke truth to him and said, hey, this is killing you. I'm watching it happen. That gave him permission to stop.

• 23:20Dr. John Delony?

  And now, yeah, he's at a temporary place. Most guys I meet in this situation quit that job and just pick up a video game controller.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:29Dr. John Delony?

  So I guess what I'm saying is this, your feelings are right.

• 23:33Dr. John Delony?

  But I wonder if it's not resentment as much as it is grief, or it's just a resettling of, I had this big, awesome, strong Marine who then turned into a failed salesman.

• 23:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. There's, I mean, there's definitely grief. And I think, too, I wasn't equipped for like his emotions during the military transition time.

• 23:56Dr. John Delony?

  It's a nightmare, man. It's a nightmare. It's one of, it's one of, I think, our biggest embarrassments as a culture. It's shameful.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  And I don't know if I mentioned this at the beginning, but we also had like a newborn baby.

• 24:09Dr. John Delony?

  Sure, that didn't add any complexity.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  Three month old. Yeah, we had like a three month old when he got out of the military. Um, so I was also checked out in some ways.

• 24:20Dr. John Delony?

  Or you were checked completely in, just in a different, in a different direction.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's more accurate.

• 24:25Dr. John Delony?

  So checked out isn't true. You were just focused on keeping a human alive.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 24:30Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And my guess is this, have you heard me talk about pictures and words? I talk about it all the time.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 24:37Dr. John Delony?

  My guess is you had a very real picture of what life would be like when he got home. And he had a very real picture in his head about what life was gonna be like when he got home. And you had a real picture of what life was gonna be like when he took this 100% commission job with, whenever you take, I have one of those, whenever you take a 100% commission job, they promise you the freaking moon. And both of you had a different picture about what that was. I just think there's a lot of grief about, oh, the picture we had didn't play out that way.

• 25:07Speaker 02

  You're right. You're right. And so maybe that's what he and I need to talk about.

• 25:11Dr. John Delony?

  I don't, I don't know if it's that as much as, what kind of house do you and I want to build moving forward?

• 25:20Dr. John Delony?

  And if you go into that conversation with you failed at this, you failed at that. And I need you, I'm gonna tell you right now, he's gonna do what every other guy in the world's gonna do is just have another brick of shame piled on his shoulders. He's gonna put his head down and just go find another thing. If you can reframe it and say, I saw a guy have to come home and learn how to be a dad, learn how to be a civilian, learn how to stand by morons in the grocery store line being like, I can't believe it. And he's like, dude, I'll tell you what, I can't believe, right? And he had to deal with a pregnant wife and a, or a, a, a postpartum wife. And he had to deal with a hundred percent. You know what you have? You have a guy that will not quit on your behalf, probably to a fault, to a fault.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  You're right. He's amazing.

• 26:03Dr. John Delony?

  And a virtuous wife is worth rubies. I need my wife to regularly say, I know you think this is a good idea. I love you and I know you better than you do sometimes. Please don't do this for my sake, for our kids sake, and for your sake. And I go, huh, okay.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 26:25Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, that took me about 15 years of being married before I had the courage to exhale and start trusting her in that way.

• 26:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, so about twice as long as we've been married.

• 26:33Dr. John Delony?

  Right, so just stay on for me. But here's the deal, if you were to do, how old's your little one now?

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Uh, she's three, um, but I'm also, I'm currently pregnant again.

• 26:43Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, cuz why not? Okay, so, cuz why not? Hey, and your body would be crazy if it didn't remember how tough that year was after your baby was born and is already gearing up and shielding up for that year to reproduce itself.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:58Dr. John Delony?

  You should, you should be tense, okay?

• 27:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:01Dr. John Delony?

  So what if you did this? Can I give you a crazy thing to try? And I'm assuming now, he's not a jerk, he's a good guy.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  No, he's an amazing, yeah.

• 27:09Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:10Dr. John Delony?

  Can I tell you what every man in the world would love in this situation?

• 27:14Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 27:16Dr. John Delony?

  Will you write him a letter about what you saw when he came home?

• 27:20Dr. John Delony?

  That you all and make it about virtues.

• 27:25Dr. John Delony?

  I saw a confident man come back and try to take on the world for me and a brand new little girl. That's how you get up to a job that was killing you and you kept going and you kept going and you kept. You weren't successful, but you never stopped. And then you were a man who listened to his wife. When I said this is killing you is killing us and you took it. You humbled yourself to go take a part time job. And now you're working a job that you don't love. It's kind of taking your soul away too, but you're doing it for all of us. And I see that and I'm so grateful I married you.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Oh, I think he would love that. I you're like, I have tears in my eyes listening to you.

• 27:57Dr. John Delony?

  I know, I know, but listen, here's the, here's the most important part. A, you're letting him know, I saw you. And then.

• 28:07Dr. John Delony?

  I want to honor you, husband. I want to love you enough to say. I want us to build something awesome going forward. So what does that look like? Does that mean you need to go back to school? And basically what you're going to be doing is giving him permission. To settle in finally, he's been running for his life since he got out of the crew. He's got, he knows what friendship actually means, brotherhood means. And now he's, he's so cut off socially, he's cut off with. Most of the Marines I know are asking themselves, did I even do the right thing? Am I glad I did that? Am I glad I, all those hard existential questions that they're not allowed to ask civilians.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:42Dr. John Delony?

  But being able to look at your, at this great man and say, hey. As your wife, I'm giving you permission. You don't need it, but I'm giving it to you. Let's go settle in and build a life that we want now. What must be true?

• 28:56Dr. John Delony?

  And y'all have lived a year where you made no money. Y'all survived, it sucked, but you survived.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, we did.

• 29:01Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 29:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:01Dr. John Delony?

  So if he's.

• 29:02Speaker 02

  We've come, yes, we've come out the other side. We're not in a mountain of debt like.

• 29:06Dr. John Delony?

  So if he needs to go get another job or get retrained or go back to school or whatever. Y'all can handle that, you've handled worse.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:13Dr. John Delony?

  And then let him dream out loud a little bit without the pressure of, and by the way, he's gonna feel pressure. He's got a little baby girl and then another one on the way and a wife he loves. You get what I'm saying?

• 29:22Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah, I mean, it is, and I, I do not work outside the home. And so it's, yeah, yeah. But I know he's carrying the weight of our family on his shoulders.

• 29:32Dr. John Delony?

  But sometimes, good men who are just basically great mules, right? Need their, the woman who loves them more than anything in the world, needs permission to say, hey, I see it. And I would love, even if you need to set the squat part down for a minute, I'd love you to set it down for a minute so that you can retool and relearn something or reimagine and then move on. And he might tell you, I'm embarrassed to say I love retail sales. And I kinda wanna run this whole store one day. Like, give him permission to say those kinda things out loud, right?

• 30:01Speaker 02

  Well, so I think his next move, actually, and we're like, I've gotten good news about it, is to become a police officer on a college campus.

• 30:08Dr. John Delony?

  That's fantastic.

• 30:09Speaker 02

  So that's the next thing. We're looking at the police academy.

• 30:12Dr. John Delony?

  And also, let me tell you something rad about that. If he hangs in there for 15 years, your kid goes to school for free.

• 30:20Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. So, which would be great.

• 30:23Dr. John Delony?

  I don't even know if there's college in 15 years, but if there is, he'll get to go for free. He'll get to go for free, right?

• 30:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 30:29Dr. John Delony?

  Uh, or by that time, he may be the chief of the police station and making six figures and y'all have a pretty great life and you got free tuition built. I mean, you see what I'm saying?

• 30:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:38Dr. John Delony?

  It's just exhaling, and that's awesome that he's going back and doing something that he's gonna love. And, and, man, my old man loved driving around. He was a college police officer for years and just hassling college kids. He loved it, man. Yeah. And he made way less than he should have. And he was, you know, you know what I mean? But it was a fu- it's a fun job.

• 30:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:56Dr. John Delony?

  And if you got military check coming in, and you got a police check coming in, and you got tuition down the, I mean, it ends up being a pretty good gig.

• 31:04Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:06Dr. John Delony?

  But man, you could speak some life into his exhausted soul. If you sat back and just simply wrote him a letter that you read to him out loud and started with, I've seen you.

• 31:17Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm so proud of you.

• 31:19Speaker 02

  That's really good. Thank you.

• 31:20Dr. John Delony?

  Is that cool?

• 31:21Speaker 02

  I feel like I'm, yes. I feel like I'm like, one of the few people that he like, lets close enough, you know, for those sorts of things.

• 31:30Dr. John Delony?

  Yep.

• 31:31Speaker 02

  So, yes.

• 31:32Dr. John Delony?

  You will give him so much wind in his sails, he don't even know what to do. You'll have to then say, by the way, you gotta take the trash out and re-ground him. Otherwise, he's gonna float off to space, man. I don't know any, I don't know any

• 31:47Dr. John Delony?

  good man in the world that doesn't long to hear the words from their wife, "I'm proud of you."

• 31:55Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, it's, I don't know, it's, it's the most magic statement. If all of you wives listening to this right now, if, if and husbands, I don't care who you are, like whoever's married to who, I don't care. If you're listening to this, if you have a husband in your life that is a good man, who's working hard, and maybe isn't successful, maybe is a super successful, wherever they happen to find themselves. If you can find a moment where it's not a big production, and you can make eye contact, better yet, put your hands on his face, or write something down and read it to him directly and make him take it.

• 32:32Dr. John Delony?

  And you say the words, "I'm proud of you," shoot.

• 32:36Dr. John Delony?

  That's gonna transform humanity, man. Most men go home feeling like a failure factory. And they can't do home right, they can't do dad right, they can't do their job right. They are stressed about what's coming down the road with all the changes in the workforce and yada, yada. Man. A spouse that will hold them and say, "I'm proud of you." And I see how you love us, shoot. That's, that's, that's gold right there, that's gold right there. Thank you for being awesome, Kaylee. When we come back, a woman wonders how to avoid resentment for being her daughter's main caregiver.

• 33:12Dr. John Delony?

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• 33:56Dr. John Delony?

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• 34:40Dr. John Delony?

  Morgantown, West Virginia. Let's talk to Sarah with an H. What's up, Sarah?

• 34:45Speaker 03

  Hello, how are you doing?

• 34:47Dr. John Delony?

  I'm doing great, and you?

• 34:49Speaker 03

  Keeping busy.

• 34:50Dr. John Delony?

  There you go. What's up?

• 34:52Speaker 03

  All right, I'm calling because I want to know, how do I deal with feelings of frustration and prevent resentment as I care for our teenage daughter with mental illness?

• 35:02Dr. John Delony?

  Hmm. Tell me about your daughter.

• 35:07Speaker 03

  She is in high school.

• 35:09Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 35:09Speaker 03

  And she's very talented, and she loves theater. And but when she was 13, we started to notice that she was having some issues, and it seemed to me to be more than just angst. And it took us a long time, but we finally... The peak point for us was when I noticed that she was losing her hair. And it was dramatic enough that we could see the hair loss.

• 35:40Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 35:41Speaker 03

  And so after a lot of phone calls with the pediatrician and with a behavioral psychologist, we finally diagnosed her with anxiety and ADHD.

• 35:54Speaker 03

  And so we began her treatment, and things were going well. She was still having trouble with impulse control and always moving, always going, dancing all the time. It was... She was always a movement. And then suddenly...

• 36:15Speaker 03

  Just a year later, it was the opposite. She didn't want to do anything. She didn't want to do anything that she was interested in. She would call home from school, wanting me to pick her up, but she didn't want to be there. And it was getting to the point where now we were starting to feel like it wasn't a small, just isolated incident. It was an ongoing issue. And I called the pediatrician and the psychiatrist and the psychologist again. And this is her third medication, but they went ahead and changed her medication again. And as I spoke to the psychologist, he goes, she's really too young at her age at this

• 36:57Speaker 03

  point in time, she's 16, to diagnose with bipolar disorder. However, she is showing all the characteristics of the disease.

• 37:07Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 37:07Speaker 03

  And so we spent a lot of time bouncing between mania and depression.

• 37:14Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 37:14Speaker 03

  In addition, it's just a lot of doctor's appointments.

• 37:17Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 37:17Speaker 03

  And things like that to keep up with.

• 37:19Dr. John Delony?

  So can I add, like, these are always very delicate conversations with parents. And fortunately and unfortunately, I've had this exact conversation, probably a thousand times in my career, okay? But normally I've got you in front of me and maybe your spouse in front of me. And I've got, we've got a relationship before now. And so I've got to bypass all of that and ask some pretty direct questions. But I'm only going to ask them if you promise me you'll hear them for what they are and you won't feel them as accusations. Is that cool?

• 37:52Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 37:53Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Tell me about the ecosystem of your house.

• 38:00Speaker 03

  She, we have two children. She's the youngest of the two. We have, my, our marriage is solid.

• 38:09Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 38:09Speaker 03

  Over 20 years.

• 38:10Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 38:10Speaker 03

  She is.

• 38:15Speaker 03

  We, uh, we have a strong value system within the home.

• 38:21Dr. John Delony?

  Does she feel a part of that or accused by that?

• 38:25Speaker 03

  She is a part of that.

• 38:27Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 38:27Speaker 03

  She is a part of that value system. There are probably at times, especially as a teenager, that she might feel like she doesn't, she doesn't like our values in the sense that she doesn't necessarily like the rules that we have.

• 38:41Dr. John Delony?

  Of course, she's a teenager.

• 38:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, in that sense, but as far as like, uh, you know, this is how we, this is how we have decided to have this home and raise this family. She feels a part of that.

• 38:54Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So tell me about your resentment.

• 38:58Speaker 03

  Well, when we first had, decided to have children, I was a corporate executive and I quit my job to be a mom.

• 39:07Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 39:08Speaker 03

  Um, because it was, and my husband and I agreed together because it was what was both fiscally and, um, environmentally the best for our children.

• 39:19Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 39:20Speaker 03

  And so, and, and I don't regret it at all that I quit our, that I quit my job, but it's,

• 39:28Speaker 03

  the plan was that eventually I was supposed to go back to work, maybe not in that type of capacity, but go back to work, find something new or a new path for myself. Once the kids were mature enough and old enough that I didn't have the need to be at home all the time. And now we're seeing a psychologist weekly, we're seeing, um, her pediatrician, her psychiatrist, she has three doctors that deal with physical manifestations of the possible, possible physical manifestations of her mental illness, such as her hair loss

• 40:11Speaker 03

  and things of that nature. And that doesn't even include the, the regular things like dentist and orthodontist and stuff like that.

• 40:18Dr. John Delony?

  It's become, it's become your full-time job, right?

• 40:21Speaker 03

  It's, it's a full-time job and especially with her being virtual, um, I mean, it's even more of a, now I have a teacher role on top of that. And so...

• 40:34Dr. John Delony?

  So can I give you permission?

• 40:36Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:36Dr. John Delony?

  To be just sad and mad about all that?

• 40:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:42Dr. John Delony?

  And I know you feel like you have to toggle between if I feel mad and sad, then I feel really guilty because she's my daughter. And also, if you don't choose to feel guilty, you don't choose to feel sad, you don't choose to feel mad, not at her, she's doing her best, but the whole just stupid situation, then yeah, then you begin resenting your daughter.

• 41:05Speaker 03

  And it's coupled with her outburst. And the psychologist says, he goes, mothers take the brunt of that.

• 41:12Dr. John Delony?

  They do.

• 41:13Speaker 03

  When there's an outburst. He said, you know, a lot of her anger when she's an angry as a manic is really difficult to handle sometimes.

• 41:23Dr. John Delony?

  It's brutal.

• 41:23Speaker 03

  When she's angry and she's manic.

• 41:24Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 41:25Speaker 03

  And, um, he go, and he said, he said, he tells me this to make me feel like I'm not, that this isn't uncommon. And I understand that. Um, but it doesn't, it still stings. Like, here's the person you're caring for, that you've put your life on hold for, like, you know, um.

• 41:48Dr. John Delony?

  So think of it this way.

• 41:49Speaker 03

  A different part of my life on hold for.

• 41:51Dr. John Delony?

  Absolutely.

• 41:52Speaker 03

  And.

• 41:52Dr. John Delony?

  But think of it this way. It's easy when you have a child that's truly manic and that truly has those rage outbursts that are, if you've never seen one, they're, they're astonishing, right? It's like your kid, it's like the, it's like the exorcist, like Glenda Blair, like who, what's happening right now? It's easy, I want you to begin to think of that as a kid with the flu who's throwing up. Because it's easy to, like, when my daughter, she's nine, or my son's 15, oh, he's a little bit older now, but if she was to run into my room in the middle of the night and say, Daddy, I'm sick, and then barf all over me, that'd be disgusting, I'd be frustrated, I'd

• 42:34Dr. John Delony?

  be annoyed, but she, in her moment of pain, came to the safest place that she knows.

• 42:42Dr. John Delony?

  And so if a kid truly is having emotional regulation challenges, no kid that's stable wants to say awful things to their closest person to them. But if you think about it as she's coming to the safest person that she knows and vomits, it's easy to take the cursing and the yelling and the "I hate yous" and extrapolate them to like your husband who's totally regulated, right? And to feel that level of pain. And I'm intellectualizing and it's not going to make it feel better in the moment. But if you think of it as my kid's coming to the safest person that she knows,

• 43:26Dr. John Delony?

  at least in your guts, you can go, "It's amazing that she feels I'm that safe." And I would check with her psychologist. I have found some great success, at least in my career, not in the home life, because my kids don't struggle with this, but in a professional setting. There is some power to setting boundaries on that. You can be manic and you can be angry. You cannot say these words in this house. And I've seen some pretty remarkable success with that. I can't generalize that and I don't know your specific situation, so obviously talk to your doctors about it. But there is something powerful about saying, I know you get spun up. And part of being 16 and managing bipolar one, if that's what it ends up being,

• 44:10Dr. John Delony?

  part of that is learning, when you feel this thing coming on, what are our alternative behaviors? As this thing starts to-

• 44:21Speaker 03

  And that's part of the reason we let her be virtual, so that she can kind of figure those things out-

• 44:27Dr. John Delony?

  She can practice. There you go. She can practice. And so there is some intellectualizing. She's throwing up. She's coming to the safest person she knows. And possibly, if she's able to, "Hey, you're allowed to be angry. You're allowed to be upset. Here's your journal. I want you to write all this stuff down. If you want to go to coffee, I'll stop what I'm doing and take you out somewhere." You can't-

• 44:47Dr. John Delony?

  You can't scream expletives in my face. That's you choosing for this consequence or this consequence. Often, it begins to get unbounded and people want to care and love and say, you've got a disease and you've got this illness and, and, and. And it just begins to feel less and less and less that there's any sort of boundary at all. And so sometimes establishing some of those gives people, it, it, it sounds counterintuitive, but it gives you a, a safety, right? Like to my daughter, run in our room, but go barf in there. And you gotta barf in the bathroom. Can't barf on me. You get what I'm saying? And I'll be right in there in the bathroom behind you when I hear you run in. You get what I'm saying?

• 45:28Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 45:29Dr. John Delony?

  And all I can say is, I hate this for you and you're, you're not a bad mom if you feel mad or frustrated. And you're not a bad mom if you are super annoyed and wish you were back at your corporate job. You're not a bad mom.

• 45:45Dr. John Delony?

  This is just a heartbreaking, sucky, day by day situation.

• 45:51Speaker 03

  And I'm trying to remember, as frustrating as for me, I can't imagine how she feels because she feels like her body is betraying her.

• 46:00Dr. John Delony?

  That's, that's the words being, that's, I've heard that sentence over and over. I'm being betrayed by my own body. And it's, it's unnerving when you know intellectually, that's my mom and I love her. You know intellectually, this situation is not that big of a deal. It's just a 79, it's just a high C, but your body goes to, like, just goes to DEFCON 1, right? It's, it's unnerving.

• 46:26Dr. John Delony?

  But I appreciate, I mean, it's just, I'm glad to know there's moms out there trying to make this thing work.

• 46:33Dr. John Delony?

  You're not crazy.

• 46:39Speaker 03

  So, and I know this, as long as she takes her medication, we figure out the right ones, I know that there's so much hope for her.

• 46:46Dr. John Delony?

  There is.

• 46:47Speaker 03

  You know, it's just kinda like spinning your wheels and mad, I'm just trying to get out.

• 46:51Dr. John Delony?

  There is, and the weekly coffee, and I know this sounds so pedantic, but the weekly coffee, asking her to go for walks with you, here's, here's what I would love for you to do, if you begin to shift and give her a role, I, I, your mom needs to go for a walk and I need you to go with me, I need this, will you do this for me? Then sometimes, not always, sometimes they can't do it, they can't get out of bed and it piles on the shame, but sometimes, giving a kid a job or a role, not an overwhelming one, like, don't let your mom get mad, that's too much, no kid can handle that, but, hey, I need to go for a walk and it makes my walks better when I get to walk with you, would

• 47:33Dr. John Delony?

  you do your, your, your mom a solid and come on a walk with me? And what you're getting is, she's getting some movement in, she's getting some fresh air in, she's getting some sunshine in, all these things that we know are good for everybody, but especially kids struggling to get their feet underneath them. Um, ugh, I need to say that, ugh. My hope is that there's some regulation that happens, and I'd love for doctors to do a blood test and see if there's any sort of hormone imbalance, if there's any sort of, anything else going on here, but it may just be good old fashioned BP1 in the early stages, and that's just hard, but yes, there is hope, if you get with a team, um, I like that you have a team approach here, and you'll get the meds dialed in, and by the way, over time

• 48:18Dr. John Delony?

  those meds will shift, and that's just part of the learning process here, but, um, yeah, saying words like, I believe you, let's go for coffee, I like spending time with you, often gives kids just that little hint of, ah.

• 48:34Dr. John Delony?

  And man, sometimes that's all they need to take the edge off the high highs or the low lows, but it's a big old mess, but just for whatever it's worth, and I can't solve that. You're with a team of professionals, so good for you, but just know you're not crazy. You're a good mom. If you don't feel guilty and you don't say out loud, or don't exhale and say, "I wish I was back in my corporate job. I wish I wasn't dealing with this," then yes, it will turn to resentment and your kid will absorb the fact that they know they're a burden. If you'll allow yourself to feel these heavy things, especially with a person or two people or a group or a therapist, then you're going to be able to show up and exhale and your kid's going to know, "My mom wants me around." And for most kids,

• 49:19Dr. John Delony?

  that's the foundation of any sort of emotional well-being. Thank you so much for the call, my friend. Be right back.

• 49:27Dr. John Delony?

  I've spent my whole life playing sports, in weight rooms, in locker rooms, and a few years ago, I realized how much I took for granted, how scary and just insecure it can be walking into a gym for the first time, or into a weight room for the first time, or even into some weight room classes for the first time. And now that I'm getting older, whenever I'm on the road and I find myself in a traditional gym, even I find myself sizing up some muscle-headed beefcake. Listen, here's the truth. We all need to lift weights. Men, women, young and old, everyone needs to lift heavy things and exercise. And knowing what to do, when to do it, and even how to do it can be super intimidating. So whether you've been lifting and working out for decades, or you're ready to get started

• 50:09Dr. John Delony?

  for just the first time, I want you to check out my friends at TrainWell. I've used their workouts. My wife and her friends use them. Kelly, the show producer, uses them. My buddy's wife's my older sister. Listen, everyone I know is starting to use TrainWell. It's a movement. TrainWell offers tailored workouts with step-by-step guidance from real people, meaning it's not just an app and it's not just a personal trainer. It's the best of both. To start, you take a short quiz and you get matched with a real, live coach, someone who actually listens. And together, y'all can build a plan that works for your body, for your season of life, and for your goal. They have videos that give you step by step guidance and your trainer will check in with you after your workouts. Now is the time to take control of your body once and for all.

• 50:53Dr. John Delony?

  Check out my friends at TrainWell and right now TrainWell has a special offer for my audience, 89 bucks a month when you lock in your plan, plus you get 14 days of free training. Go to TrainWell.net/Daloni right now. That's TrainWell.net/Daloni.

• 51:12Dr. John Delony?

  Alright, something awesome happened. I don't know what it is. Kelly 2.0, what is it? By the way, Kelly, the OG Kelly, the old, old, old Kelly, who's the show producer. Man, she's had a lot going on. She got a kid that's graduated. She's been out and she's helping produce other shows right now too. So Kelly 2.0 stepping in to help produce the show while she's out doing whatever is, I think, getting new Jarrett Hall, getting her dentures replaced and whatever else she's doing. But thank you for stepping in, Kelly 2.0. Your faces that you make to me during the show are much nicer than Kelly 1.0's. And I know that Kelly 1.0 also hears the show before it goes out. So that's what you

• 51:55Dr. John Delony?

  get for skipping. So alright, something cool happened. What is it, Kelly 2.0?

• 51:58Speaker 04

  Alright, so Brittany from Colorado Springs, Colorado says, "I have listened to every episode of yours for the last two years and it's helped me tremendously. One of those being that it has normalized asking for professional help. I've struggled with an addiction for the past 20 years of my life. One of your recent episodes, you told someone that if today is day one, I'm proud of you. If tomorrow is day one, I'm proud of you. And that really struck me to the core. Today is day seven, which has been the longest streak of breaking this thing and I'm not sure I could have done it without those subtle yet impactful words. Thank you so much and keep up the good work."

• 52:39Dr. John Delony?

  Amazing. Day seven. Congratulations. By the way, if anyone here is struggling with, who is working through addictions and falls off.

• 52:52Dr. John Delony?

  Like just wakes up and that moment when you feel like you've just lost everything and you're just bathing in shame. Dax Shepard had an episode a few years ago on his Armchair Expert podcast. I think it's called Day Seven. And it may be one of the top 10 most important podcast episodes I've ever listened to in my life. And so it's definitely worth, if you know somebody who's struggling with addiction and the up and down, or you're in Day Five, or you're in Day Seventeen, or Day Twenty-One, or you had five years of sobriety and you, man, you tripped and fell, and now you're picking yourself back up. That Day Seven episode is such a powerful, powerful episode. It's worth listening. I think it was back in 2021 or 2022, but it's worth going to figure out and find it. It's a good, it's a good listen. But, what was her name again, Brittany?

• 53:37Speaker 04

  Brittany from Colorado Springs.

• 53:39Dr. John Delony?

  Brittany, all of us in the show gang are rooting you on and cheering for you. Hopefully by now it's Day Thirty-Seven. If it's not, if you're back to Day One, we still love you. We'll still walk with you. And all we're gonna ask you to do is get up and dust yourself off, and let tomorrow be Day One again. We love you guys. Stay cool. Bye.