KHC 155 - Speedland Boots

New Boot Goofin? Join us for a conversation about Speedlands NEW boots, trial and tested through harsh mountain conditions by Cam Hanes over the last year. Speedland - a premium trail running shoe brand founded in 2021 by former Nike and Under Armour designers Dave Dombrow and Kevin Fallon. Based in Portland, Oregon, the company focuses on creating high-performance footwear for trail and ultra running, emphasizing innovation, durability, and customization without compromises driven by mass production or cost-cutting. Their mission is to build "the best possible trail running shoes in existence" in limited quantities, drawing inspiration from elite athletes and specific terrains across the U. S. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Speedland: https://www.instagram.com/runspeedland/ Timestamps: 00:00:00 Testing New Shoes & Helping Cam at Cocodona 00:05:39 Working with Big Brands vs Running the Brand as a Founder 00:09:10 Tough Conditions, Blisters, & Human Performance 00:18:08 Connecting with People at Races: 2025 Races 00:20:31 The NEW Speedland Boot: XB:BLK 00:32:44 NEW: GS:BLK Running Shoe 00:34:51 Products & Finding a Balance with Perfecting the Details 00:37:24 Speedlands Culture & Focus of Branding 00:40:13 The Effect of Tariff's and Speedland’s Mission in Quality 00:42:27 Speedland Athletes 00:47:41 Goals: The Future of Speedland 00:49:55 Final Thoughts

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Cameron Hanes?

  When you're miles from the truck and breaking down a big bull, you can't afford a knife that won't hold up. That's why I built my own signature blade with Montana Knife Company. The Keep Hammerin' Pack Out. It's lightweight, razor sharp, and built in the USA to handle everything from caping to quartering. This is my go-to backcountry knife. Tough, reliable, and made for hunters who push hard. Here's the deal. The last time we release a Pack Out, it's sold out in under 24 hours. Gone. You need to be ready the second they go live at montanaknifecompany.com because they won't last. And if you can't wait until then, Montana Knife Company gives listeners of this podcast 10% off any knife right now.

• 0:42Cameron Hanes?

  Just use code CAM at checkout. The Keep Hammerin' Pack Out, my signature blade, built for the backcountry. Get yours October 1st before they're gone. All right, hunters, listen up. Hunting season's here, and the last thing you want is to tap out before the action starts. That's why I'm dialing in with Mountain Ops Ignite. Ignite isn't your average energy drink. It delivers smooth, long-lasting energy, no jitters, plus mental clarity that cuts through the backcountry fog. Powered by amino acids and brain blend of nootropics and 200mg of clean caffeine, Ignite keeps you sharp and pushing hard mile after mile. Whether you're glassing ridges, packing in before dawn, or heading to elk camp, one scoop in your bottle and you're locked in. It's my go-to

• 1:27Cameron Hanes?

  every hunt, every hike, every long drive. And Mountain Ops isn't just about performance. They're mission-driven. Every purchase helps feed families in need through Operation Conquer Hunger. Right now, you can get 20% off your purchase. Just go to mountainops.com and use code CAM at checkout. This season, don't settle for sluggish. Ignite the hunt.

• 2:05Cameron Hanes?

  This is the Keep Hammerin' Collective and my friends from Speedland. How's it going, guys? Dave and Kevin?

• 2:11Speaker 01

  Great to be back.

• 2:12Cameron Hanes?

  We are, we are, we've got so much exciting stuff to talk about, don't we?

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 2:17Cameron Hanes?

  What's it like running a running shoot brand right now?

• 2:21Speaker 01

  Ooh, that's a tough one. It's challenging. Yeah, for sure.

• 2:25Cameron Hanes?

  Can, can you hear that, the audio okay?

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27Cameron Hanes?

  Should we get it closer?

• 2:30Speaker 02

  It's kind of in the middle. If they want to scoot closer, it would be better.

• 2:33Cameron Hanes?

  We'll scoot a little closer.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  What are you trying to do to us here?

• 2:37Cameron Hanes?

  You're like, they're like step brothers. You want to sit behind them?

• 2:41Speaker 01

  I'm okay where I am right now.

• 2:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Pan? Pan? Are you saying Pan? Is that what it is? But no, yeah. So what's it like? What's it, what's it like out there?

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's challenging. It's great. You know, it's super rewarding. It's wonderful to connect with the running community and to be at the events and, you know, what the runners are doing is amazing in this space. I think it's, it's, there's really edge of human performance happening. So that's what really thrills us. The business side is challenging, you know, tariffs make it challenging, the competition.

• 3:18Speaker 03

  A lot of, a lot of new brands.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  A lot of new brands and even the established brands are stepping it up, I think.

• 3:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  With the news of, you know, how big trail is becoming.

• 3:27Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, what was that 20 billion or what, what, what was that thing? I was like, where is all this money?

• 3:32Speaker 01

  I know. It's, it's pretty, pretty nutty. You know, it is growing and it's healthy for sure, but it's still so much smaller than its road counterpart that it's kind of funny when people get so amped up on the size of it, you know? But, you know, all of those things make it challenging.

• 3:48Speaker 03

  And great. Competition.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Which is great at the same time.

• 3:50Speaker 03

  We like the competition.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:52Speaker 03

  It's that high tide rises all boats.

• 3:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's fun to see even to a small extent, the influence that we've had on the market. In some extents, you know, two zone fit systems are pretty common now and, you know, there's things that we brought in that, that are becoming standard. And so, you know, it's a validation at some level.

• 4:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  But we do love the competition. That's, that's what makes great for the consumer and it, it keeps us sharp as well.

• 4:20Speaker 03

  I think our attitude is just like, stay, stay ahead, right? Just keep innovating. Don't really look behind. Don't worry if someone's copying us or whatever. Just stay ahead of the group.

• 4:30Cameron Hanes?

  No, I, I get that. Yeah.

• 4:33Speaker 03

  We can't be worried about that stuff.

• 4:34Cameron Hanes?

  No, because I know like in a race, when you start looking and someone starts looking behind, you're like, gotcha.

• 4:42Cameron Hanes?

  So yeah, it's a, I don't know. I think that's a good approach. But it is an exciting time. I, I see and hear a lot of people interested in trail and ultras and getting in the, getting in the mountains and. There's a lot to learn out there for people and it's cool to be part of it, you know, and, and I do see a lot of Speedlens out there on, on my, in my little world here. So that's pretty exciting.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's wonderful to see more and more product out there at, at these events.

• 5:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  You know, again, great chance for us to interact with, with people and get their stories and hear what they love about us and, and sometimes what they don't. That, that helps us be better as well.

• 5:21Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I, we, Macey, we need to pull in some clips here. Need those road shoes.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  You want back on for this stretch?

• 5:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  Is off, socks off, let's take a look at what's going on.

• 5:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. You guys helping me at Coca Dona was so incredible. I mean, I was so thankful. I don't know if I said I was thankful at that time, but I'm like, looking back now, you guys like made, played a huge part in, in my success out there at Coca Dona and, uh, of course the shoes, but just you guys personally and to, to have the, you know, the founders of the company out there and just doing,

• 5:56Speaker 01

  We love it.

• 5:57Cameron Hanes?

  Doing the dirty work out there. Like, part of my crew essentially is, is just incredible. And I'm, I'm, I mean, it meant a lot to me and I wanted to tell you guys thank you for that.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Like Dave said, it's, it's our pleasure to be out there and that's, we can't imagine not, not being out there and being a part of it when we have an opportunity to, because that's how you, you learn so much and you really get to see how dig, how deep somebody's dig, digging and that and what, what people go through on the emotional scale.

• 6:27Cameron Hanes?

  Hurts.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a little beyond hurt even.

• 6:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Um, and that goes with the product as well. We really, you, you were testing a, a product, uh, at Leadville and that gave us great information on how to make that product better. It confirmed.

• 6:40Cameron Hanes?

  At Leadville or Coca Dona?

• 6:41Speaker 01

  Coca Dona.

• 6:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, the shoe's called the Leadville, so I got a little confused there.

• 6:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  But yeah, um,

• 6:47Speaker 03

  Coming, coming in the future, not, not out yet.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  It's a, it's a spring model, but you know, we were hoping to have that shoe out this fall. That was our original intention.

• 6:54Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, okay.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  But learning what we learned at Coca Dona.

• 6:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  It really showed us, hey, we weren't quite ready. And that's a big part of how we learn and how we make the product, uh, the best it can be.

• 7:05Speaker 03

  That's kind of how we work when people ask, why isn't it, you know, say the shoe that you were wearing, why isn't it out yet?

• 7:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 7:11Speaker 03

  Well, that's kind of like, we don't, we won't put anything out until we feel like it's ready and often it has to go through a test. Doesn't always go through Cocalona, but it goes through something.

• 7:23Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 7:24Speaker 03

  So we're excited, that'll come out next year and we're excited.

• 7:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Well, how, so I'm curious, you guys have worked at all the big brands, not all of them, but most of the big brands. How is it different? Cause you talk about like, we don't want to put anything out too soon or whatever. Is it different being the founders of a company as opposed to working for the big brands? Like, how's your approach?

• 7:47Speaker 03

  Completely different.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. It is very different. Yeah, I think at a, at a big brand, one, you're under the pressure of that, that seasonal calendar. So every year you've got to have product ready for spring, summer, and then again, fall, winter, and it's just, it's a relentless product cycle. And it has an effect in terms of how big of a risk most teams are willing to take with a product. If it's something really new and you have to have it for a season, that's tough to get everybody aligned on that because getting ready for commercialization is, is no small thing in a big company. And if you're, there's still questions about how something's going to perform or the durability, they probably won't do it. So it just, it kind of forces a more conservative approach to product in general.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  And even within that, oftentimes there isn't enough time to do the proper testing. So something gets out and it might not be better than the previous version. It's different, but doesn't always satisfy that box of, is it better than what came before it because of that relentless cycle? So that, that's one of the, the big differences for us. We're really not operating on seasons. We, we know what the athletes need based on feedback, like, hey, I'm missing something here or this could be better. And so we're constantly doing that, but when we test something like at Cocalona. We're looking like, hey, did it work? Did it cross that threshold of we're ready to bring it to market?

• 9:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  Didn't, then we're gonna go back and fix it.

• 9:08Speaker 03

  And I would just say, we generally can work much faster than the big brands. Because we're making real time decisions.

• 9:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 9:15Speaker 03

  Right? Like, we're literally, we're with you at Coca-Dona. On the course, we might actually make a decision right then. We're seeing something and be able to affect, you know, a future iteration.

• 9:28Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 9:29Speaker 03

  Like, we're not waiting weeks and having the back and forth.

• 9:32Cameron Hanes?

  Like, we're, it's quick.

• 9:34Speaker 03

  So that's a very different way of working than maybe how a big brand might work.

• 9:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I wouldn't see, I didn't see Phil Knight out there. Was he out there?

• 9:43Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't think he made Coca-Dona this year.

• 9:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 9:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's, it's true. It's, and I think also, I think those big brands, once they, once it's on the calendar to come out, it's coming out usually, you know, it's just like, and they, like with Under Armour, they would ask me some things and some things that I've, as I've talked about here, never happened. No changes. I said, oh, this one thing we gotta fix, didn't get fixed. And it still came out. So it's like, what do, I mean, sometimes you think like, do they even listen? Where you guys definitely listen. You know, you're out there, not, not only listening, but you're just, you're seen for yourself. So it's so much different. But I, I do understand how that can affect, you know, how quick things come out. But when it does come out, it's gonna be quality and people can count on it or can trust it. So that's important.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  That's the most important thing, you know, we, you develop a trust with, with the customers you do have, and they expect certain things and you want, you gotta deliver that to them. You can't give it to them and say, well, this'll be good, but it's not gonna last quite as long for this and that reason. I mean, that just doesn't work.

• 10:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  And that's, that's part of the brand that we've built and we wanna stay behind that and deliver, over-deliver on the performance and the durability.

• 10:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, I think you guys have, I, you know. People who watch a Cogadona film, my feet did get torn up. We, you know, as I explained there, it was more, more weather related than shoe or foot related because like at Leadville, I didn't have, I didn't have one, anything, one blister, nothing, but it was dry. You know, it was dry course. We had a couple of river crossings, but uh, I think I changed out after that, but my feet were a hundred percent fine. So it's just the conditions at Cogadona, man, they were tough and it seems like they had those same conditions at Moab just recently with the mud, with Eli and Goggins, they were out there and um,

• 11:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, you saw pictures of their feet and, and yeah, glaze too, right? Like if, if your feet are soggy and you're running constantly for days, I'd think there isn't a shoe that can really help that situation. The skin gets soft and yeah, there's so much friction, it's going to get torn up. So those were some ugly shots and just another testament to, to grinding it through that pain. I mean, blisters are pretty brutal.

• 12:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I mean, most people, they get a blister and they're, you know, like these ladies wear their high heeled shoes, get a blister. It's like a big deal. It's like, it's uh, cause blisters do suck, you know? I mean, you get a little blister on your pinky toe, like in normal life, you're like, oh, but in these races, I'd take a blister on my pinky toe. Is that all I got? Okay. That's fine. You have no bones sticking out? We're good.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  Quite a few blisters that we were working on in Coco.

• 12:31Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, that was, that was so fun. I mean, well, I don't know about fun, but

• 12:36Speaker 01

  It's fun now, right?

• 12:37Cameron Hanes?

  Looking back, yeah. I mean, the experience is life changing, but man, those, I just can't believe, I, you know, it's not like I've done a million of them, but I've done enough to, you forget and then you get back in it and you're like, holy shit, what am I doing? This, these are so freaking hard. And yeah, I don't know. Respect to the guys who are doing the triple crown and things like that.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 13:01Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, it's.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  That's what is so interesting. You know, marathon used to be the long distance. You're crazy doing a marathon. And then, you know, now to see where it's gone or where it's probably going. Then that's why I say it without any hyperbole. It really is edge of human performance. Like, what can the human body do? How much can you take?

• 13:21Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  And the mix of the nutrition, the psychology, the fitness. I mean, there's so many aspects to it and they all need to go well to finish a race like that.

• 13:33Cameron Hanes?

  It's, it's where humans, I mean, such an, we're an incredible species, but like, when you think of it, like, I'm old. You guys know that. I got 58, this old, but it used to be, if you see a 58 year old, that was an old man, right? And I can still train like I'm, I don't even feel that. I don't, there's days I don't feel that old. I feel good. It's just crazy. So when you talk about like the edge of human potential, but we're like, we're improving as a species just with diet and with just this knowledge and science and supplements. And this training modalities and just like learning more about it, the shoes, everything, everything.

• 14:16Cameron Hanes?

  It's crazy. So it's exciting to think what is possible.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:20Cameron Hanes?

  You know, it's, I don't know.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  It's exciting. That's, I mean, one of the things that we love about being in this particular niche within the niche is it's really putting all those things together. The, the cycling world, I think, came up with that term aggregation of marginal gains. It's how do you squeeze that half percent out of all these different things to, to make a noticeably better performance. And I think ultra is certainly that. And you factor in the, the mindset. Sleep becomes another one of these multi days event. Well, what's going to be your strategy for sleep? You know, and nutrition, the rest of it's all wrapped together and you have to really optimize and kind of be a scientist or a doctor in, in, of your own body. The good ones are.

• 15:05Cameron Hanes?

  They are. That's, I think that's like Roach, even like, you know, Courtney, her husband. He's, I don't know what, I can't remember what he is, but he's super smart, always on the computer. Like the spreadsheets, you know, it's.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:22Cameron Hanes?

  I like it because she talks about like, oh, just candy beer type stuff, but I know Kevin is like looking.

• 15:28Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  She's not really breaking it down. Yeah, there's no way. I mean, she eats candy. I'm sure it's here, but like, that's not what she's doing when she's training.

• 15:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, but I, because I always think about this too. And I'm, you know, me and Tru had been talking about it because he's really got these, these high goals. And it's like, even in training,

• 15:48Cameron Hanes?

  if you're optimized in training nutritionally, you can push harder. The harder you can push. So you talk about like, how do you squeeze that? Like the Tour de France guys or the cyclist? How do you squeeze a little bit more on the day of performance? Well, you get that training up to the highest level it can. So, but if you're, if you're a calorie deficit, or you don't have enough carbs and you, you're not just getting like that half of a second, or whatever out of a rep or a 400 or an 800 or, or whatever mile you're doing. Because, um, you know, it's like we talk about the treadmill or the downhill, your, your body's getting used to like running at this super high cadence. You can't do that if you're not optimal in nutrition and salt and, and everything else.

• 16:33Cameron Hanes?

  So even the training at the highest level pays off, you know, in the event itself. And I think we're, you know, when I first started, I don't think, you know, in a marathon, you'd never even think of taking a, a gel or calorie. Like maybe, you maybe grab a piece of banana every once in a while. But nobody even hardly drank, you know, oh, you go by a water station, I guess, but there's no talk about getting calories in. Well, Tru, I think on his, he ran that 225 41.

• 17:07Cameron Hanes?

  He took like, I think a gel every, I think he took six gels. And so that, and he said it made the biggest difference. So even just that one thing, getting calories in. But yeah, so we're learning all that and it's the ti- the times reflected.

• 17:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. And the stomach has to be used to taking all those in too. That's the thing. People have to like, that's what I'm seeing now is everybody's like, on these shorter runs, everyone's taking gels just to get their stomach used to when they have to take them.

• 17:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And I, you gotta give credit for Roach, uh, to Roach for that, you know, he's been pushing this high carb stuff, but also training your gut, you know, because you can't just go and take 10 gels. I mean, you'd be shitting your pants.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. So it becomes that training your body for taking in those calories under the high load during that that high event. Cause you know, it's, it's amazing to me. You get some people come in and they just are going to take whatever nutrition is at the aid station. Like you're gambling with your race at that point. Like you gotta know what to put in and when.

• 18:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  If you want to have that ultimate performance for sure.

• 18:10Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  But even, even mid pack, I think your ability to finish a race, like you can't finish if you can't keep down food.

• 18:17Cameron Hanes?

  Right. Yeah.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  And so you gotta find what works for you. And part of that is in the training too, you know, you gotta figure it out.

• 18:24Cameron Hanes?

  Get trained that gut. And that's like, yeah, that's what people, everybody sees the gels and you hear about it and like, oh, you gotta take gels in. Oh, how many carbs per hour are you getting?

• 18:34Cameron Hanes?

  You just can't go do that. Right. So, so yeah, it's a.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  And there's a million different gels as well.

• 18:39Cameron Hanes?

  There is.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  Which one works for your system?

• 18:41Cameron Hanes?

  I know. Yeah. The, the, for me personally, those Martin gels or whatever they are, those, and those go down good.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Those go down good. I would agree. Yeah.

• 18:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And, cause I remember back, you know, when it first started as like the goo gels, those were like, what is that shit you do around your windows? It's like caulking. It'll seem like you're trying to swallow caulking. It's like, God, these suck. And you just can't even like, you gotta drink, gotta get it down.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  If it's cold, they can't even get it out of the packet.

• 19:09Cameron Hanes?

  Terrible. And, uh, but these Martin gels, man, they, they're good. So anyway, it's, yeah, it's, it's gonna be a challenge, but it's a, that's part of, part of the sport, is part of the evolution and the performances that are, I mean, it's just an exciting time.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it really is.

• 19:26Cameron Hanes?

  I love talking to all these, well, to you guys, of course, but even all the other ultra runners and stuff. I don't, I can't have this podcast just turn into like full-time ultra, but God, I, you know, I've talked to a million times, Rachel Entreckin wants to come on and I want to get Killian Corrathon and like Andy Glaze. But I could just talk to these guys, cause it's, it is just fascinating.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:47Cameron Hanes?

  This is like people who push this hard. It's just, it's awesome.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:51Cameron Hanes?

  Love it.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  It's awesome.

• 19:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Inspiring.

• 19:53Cameron Hanes?

  It's an exciting time for sure. And just seeing trail take off like this.

• 19:58Cameron Hanes?

  What, um, what other races were you guys at this year? Did you just do Kokadona?

• 20:03Speaker 01

  No, we were a lot. Um, well, a lot of the, a lot of the daybreak races. Yeah. So, uh, gorge, uh, hood hundred.

• 20:11Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 20:13Speaker 03

  We're just at one Cloud Cap. There's another one. They're actually doing a late race called Thunder River out in the gorge as well.

• 20:20Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, really?

• 20:21Speaker 03

  So.

• 20:22Cameron Hanes?

  How long?

• 20:23Speaker 03

  Well, they'll have different, yeah, a hundred K, I believe.

• 20:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 20:27Speaker 03

  Um, so that'll be interesting because that's a pretty late race. I think it's the first week in November.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  And we were down at Trail Con for that week.

• 20:35Cameron Hanes?

  What was that? It was like a?

• 20:37Speaker 03

  In between, in between Broken Arrow and, uh, Western, there's a conference.

• 20:42Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. Oh, yeah.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  It's like for business. Yeah, it's, it's all the trail.

• 20:47Cameron Hanes?

  Or industry.

• 20:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, let's say industry.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  Brands and, and people associated, you know, nutrition brands, footwear brands, apparel, all of it there. And it's a series of, um, lectures and I guess informational sessions around the state of the business. What's happening?

• 21:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, thought, thought leadership type.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  This, this year it was kind of about the professionalization of trail running. And so there were athletes talking about how they do that. How do you monetize on?

• 21:13Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:14Speaker 01

  Social, you know, so it, there, I think there's a theme, an overriding theme every year. And then they find the right panels to get together and super informational. I mean, a lot of the stuff, if you're in the space, you're going to know, but it's great to connect with people. And obviously a great setting and right between Broken Arrow and Western. So it's like, well, why leave?

• 21:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  You give a reason for everyone to stay around.

• 21:34Speaker 03

  Dylan's one of the, he's not the only, but he's one of the ones spearheading it.

• 21:38Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. Yeah, that's good.

• 21:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:41Cameron Hanes?

  He's a, he's a good spokesperson for the sport, it seems like.

• 21:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's kind of the authority, I think.

• 21:45Cameron Hanes?

  Seems like.

• 21:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I still think I need more hot takes from him. That's it.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Get him on shit talkers. Yeah.

• 21:53Speaker 03

  See if you can get him to open up. I'm sure he has a lot of knowledge about a lot of things.

• 21:57Cameron Hanes?

  He'd just be seeing how great everybody was. Not everybody's great. Come on. Yeah, he's just.

• 22:03Speaker 03

  Maybe in his position, he can't talk shit.

• 22:05Cameron Hanes?

  That's what Rachel was saying. She's really good at shit talking.

• 22:07Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Have her on. Yeah.

• 22:09Cameron Hanes?

  That, I know she wants to come on shit talkers.

• 22:10Speaker 03

  I see. Like Dylan and Courtney are too nice.

• 22:12Cameron Hanes?

  I know. Yeah. So I, I want to hear some, I want to hear some crazy shit. Come on. Let's, let's get it out there. But, uh, yeah. Um, well, so the big news today, one of the favorite packages I get every month is a Black Rifle Coffee Club exclusive roast. The only way you can get it is if you're a member of the club. And with hunting season right around the corner, I've got to mention one of my favorite Black Rifle items for elk camp, the Vanilla Bomb Instant Coffee Stick. Super easy, super good, and perfect for those early mornings in the mountains. Black Rifle Coffee is America's coffee. Veteran owned and operated, and they give back big time to the hunting and conservation community, and especially to veterans.

• 22:53Cameron Hanes?

  Right now, they're offering listeners 20% off of your first purchase of the Coffee Club or any order on their site. Just use code KEEPHAMMERING at checkout and get America's Coffee today. Out in the mountains, there's no room for weak gear. When I'm packing out meat in the heat, or loading up for a long-range training trip, I need a cooler that holds the line every time. That's why I use Grizzly Coolers. These things are bear-proof, rugged as hell, and keep ice locked in for days, literally. I've had coolers on the trail, baking in the sun, still holding ice after hauling out elk quarters. That's performance you can count on.

• 23:35Cameron Hanes?

  Whether you're running deep in the backcountry or just stacking meat for the weekend, Grizzly is built for that grind. Right now, you can get 20% off at grislycoolers.com with the code KEEPHAMMERING. And that's all one word. And I'm not going to spell it. Keep hammering. Again, keep hammering, one word for 20% off. Don't roll with weak gear. Go Grizzly. I think is, you know, you guys brought, came down, you guys come down every quarter and we talk about business and do, do a, just whatever, just BS. But, um, so this time, what do we got here? I mean, what is this? I think people kind of saw, maybe a little, this is what I, I basically hunted in these

• 24:20Cameron Hanes?

  all season. Tell me about it.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is largely based on our relationship with you and looking at what's happened in the trail space. Can we leverage our expertise in mountain footwear and create the optimal boot?

• 24:37Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  And, you know, it's a multi-use boot, obviously hunting being the focus and working with you pretty hard on that portion of it, but there's other uses as well, you know, from hiking to just tactical, casual. So it's a new space for us. The idea of taking a trail platform into this space isn't necessarily new, but it's a new business for us and a new approach. And different consumer side as well. You know, there's probably a fair amount of your consumers who do this, but largely it's going to be a new subset of people. So introducing Speedland to a different group of folks.

• 25:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 25:10Speaker 03

  We're taking a lot of what we learned on the trail product and bringing it into a boot as well, right? You can, I guess, right away, you can see the fit system, right?

• 25:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 25:19Speaker 03

  It's asymmetrical. It's the same kind of wrap system that we have going on, on the trail product, but bringing it to the boot. It's a different boa dial, but it still has boa.

• 25:28Cameron Hanes?

  How's it different?

• 25:31Speaker 03

  It's more powerful.

• 25:32Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 25:32Speaker 03

  We're also using a cable, but it's a more powerful dial because, you know, you're obviously the, you're asking it to do more than what we are on the trail shoe.

• 25:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  There's more bulk to a boot and

• 25:43Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  different number of layers to really crank down that upper. We needed the more powerful.

• 25:48Speaker 03

  It has a wrap. The booty itself has a wrap construction. So it's a bit of a little bit different construction, but it's very seamless. It's a waterproof boot. So that's something we haven't really done on the trail space because it has a different use. And then there's just a lot of, it's using our trail bottom from the GL. So anybody who's used the GL with the 6.5 millimeter lugs, that's what we brought to this. So it's a fairly aggressive tread pattern, but has worked really well as an all-mountain trail shoe. So it should really do the job on the boot side.

• 26:26Cameron Hanes?

  It's, I mean, it's durable and it's grippy, like not just on mud, you know, it's not going to hold mud. I think these are spaced far enough apart where they're not holding a bunch of mud, but it's giving you that grip in it. But mostly what I, I'm on wet rock a lot and even, you know, at an angle and it's grippy on that. That's what you want. You don't want your boot sliding out, you know, if you got too hard of a

• 26:52Speaker 03

  Exactly. It's plate compatible as well. So like, I don't, I don't think there's another boot on the market that's plate compatible. So you can take the carbon plate in and out, um, just like you can on the trail shoe. So it, it shares a lot of the modular system. Doesn't have a plate in there right now, but we can pull it out because I also want to show people it's got your

• 27:13Speaker 03

  tattoo. So it's got the good graphic on the, the foot fat side.

• 27:17Cameron Hanes?

  That's the old type bowl there. That's one on my shin and that's one right there.

• 27:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:22Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah.

• 27:22Speaker 03

  So yeah, you can see, so the plate fits in there and, uh, and slides into that groove. So if you want to use the carbon plate, um, you can, you can put it in there, um, that we use on the trail product, um, which is another, you know, cool thing, cool offering.

• 27:38Speaker 03

  So yeah, it's, it's got a lot of cool features that I think are pretty unique, um, to this boot. And yeah, we're really excited about it. A lot of testing went into this, so.

• 27:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, definitely. It's, uh, like I said, I used it basically, let's see, so end of August and then I just killed that last bull here last week, I think. Um, so we're like mid October and, um, used the new Speedland boot for, on every hunt except, uh, the winnaun hunt. And, um, man, I, I was impressed. You know, I, I put it, I put some miles on and what I like about you guys for sure is, so here's, this is that first iteration of that, basically. And then this is, uh, this is a non waterproof version, right? Is that right?

• 28:24Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 28:24Cameron Hanes?

  Am I understanding that right?

• 28:26Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 28:26Cameron Hanes?

  So I hunted, I did about, I mean, I think three, I, no, I did two hunts in this, but long hunts, back and forth, Colorado, bulls and Arizona, everywhere. And then, um, on the last, on the Utah hunt, I wore these. So, um, yeah, I feel like I got a ton of miles in and a lot of challenging rain, uh, heat, uh, rugged country. And I, I do at least 10 miles a day. So it's, uh, we're, we're covering some country. Um,

• 28:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:00Cameron Hanes?

  A test like that, it's like, here's what we learn. We learn like this looks like it's losing some, uh, color there. And then on the, on one of these, uh, Yeah, a stick went through that, the very bottom of that, which

• 29:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:16Cameron Hanes?

  Right there, which might, which would give credence to having the plate in there.

• 29:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, the plate will completely block that.

• 29:23Cameron Hanes?

  Right. So it's a, but that's kind of what we learned. You guys, you guys give me these products, say, run them through the wringer, tell us what you learned. And there's really no better way to, to do it, right? So what, what changed? I mean, how did we address tho- those issues there?

• 29:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, well, the, on the, whatever you want to call that, the paint or whatever.

• 29:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 29:46Speaker 03

  There, there's no paint anymore on the boot. So if you look at it, the midsole's black. So it's, it's using what's called HTPU beads, but they're actually black beads. So there's no paint anymore. So there's, there's, that could not, that could not happen again.

• 30:00Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 30:01Speaker 03

  Yeah. So that, that was a dress.

• 30:02Cameron Hanes?

  And that's not, that's not a function thing. That's just.

• 30:04Speaker 03

  No, that's just an aesthetic thing. But yeah, you want your boots looking good. So, you know, um, so that's, that's one change on that. Um, obviously you can put the plate in. Um, we added a little, um, a gar- a rubber guard, yeah, in the back. So when you're kicking your boots off or anything was to hit, um, we didn't have that on this. So, so that's another guard from this foam ever chipping now that we've, we've added kind of a bumper, let's say.

• 30:28Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 30:29Speaker 03

  Um, so that, that's a big change. And then, um, we went with a, a Newbuck toe now. We had what's called a, um, I don't know if you'd call this fine mold or Caspi U toe. And, um, we were addressing some different fit issues. And so we ended up going with a Newbuck toe instead.

• 30:47Cameron Hanes?

  Well, you can kind of see, there might be a tiny bit of separation right there.

• 30:50Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 30:51Cameron Hanes?

  So that, that addresses that.

• 30:53Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 30:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 30:54Speaker 03

  So, um, and which we think the Newbuck in the toe, uh, we know it's abrasion test and it looks great. So we feel really good about all those changes, but those are all kind of direct, uh, let's say responses to some of the stuff that you were dealing with.

• 31:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And this, it, you can tell like this iteration is just a little beefier than this first one. I mean, it's just a little bit more boot.

• 31:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. So we, we made some adjustments. I mean, it's, it's a, it's a process, right? We made, you know, I think we've talked about this maybe on pass by us, but the, the shoe or the boot is based off what they call a last. And it's built around that form. And so you said to us, hey, this is feeling a little tight in this area. Cause when you do a boot construction, it's different.

• 31:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 31:38Speaker 03

  So, um, so we actually ended up changing the last slightly, um, adding a little more girth in certain areas. So there was no, you know, say rubbing where you didn't want rubbing and stuff. So that's why you see it's a, it's a touch beefier in certain areas. Um, but that's the reason why, um,

• 31:56Speaker 03

  to address and you know, we, we want to make sure it fits exactly how it should fit.

• 32:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Well, it's, I mean, the, the fit, yeah, there's a, I mean, I like what, like the changes you made. The fit to me, like they always felt good. They felt fast. This is a non waterproof version, but, uh, fast, light, which is, that's what I want. I mean, I, I consider myself like more, a more athletic type hunter. I want to cover country, right? And sometimes I'm running. I, I am, and I, I want, it's hard to run in some of those big heavier boots. Sometimes if you're going to go, you know, cut off a bull, getting up the mountain, sometimes I gotta go to the backside and run to cover that distance, then pop back over. And, uh, I, I do that all the time. I want a boot that's gonna not hinder that, that's gonna help me.

• 32:42Cameron Hanes?

  And a, a more athletic lighter boot like these, uh, did. So it, it was never like, to me, it was never like the fit or the feel or the, my ability was ever compromised. It was just these little tweaks and you guys have addressed it, which is, I mean, that's the biggest advantage of having a brand and having, you know, the, the founders here and listening and, and caring and making the tweaks because these other brands, I just don't think are that nimble, you know, you guys can do it.

• 33:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. And we get a lot of que, when people see you in it, would they get, we get a lot of questions. Oh, when's that boot coming out? You know, but then we're like, well, it's come out when it's ready to come out.

• 33:19Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 33:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. So that's why this has taken us honestly a little bit longer than maybe we would have liked, but we feel, you know, it's, it's worth to take. The time and do it right the first time.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're always optimistic, right? We hope things if things follow a perfect path, I think we would have had this out for sale in the fall. But it became clear through the summer, it just wasn't quite ready. And for us to rush it would kind of, you know, we don't want to ruin the first chance we have to launch a boot.

• 33:46Speaker 03

  Right.

• 33:47Speaker 01

  And with Speedland. So, you know, it was it made it relatively easy to, hey, we just got to push it out a little bit until we get it right.

• 33:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And I mean, who wins in that process? The consumer, you know, they're getting a better product. It's it's not like this stuff is cheap. It's expensive to make. So, you know, the retail cost is, is, you know, not cheap either, but you want it to be something they can count on. And this process kind of kind of ensures that, or to the best of our ability, you know, it's it's still it's still the mountains. Mountains are pretty unforgiving, but.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  They sure are.

• 34:22Cameron Hanes?

  But, you know, you put out the best product you can, and hopefully people can use it to find success. And and I did. So, yeah, I I definitely appreciate how you guys go through and care about everything. And then also, what's this? What's this shoe here?

• 34:37Speaker 03

  So this is anybody who's familiar with our GS, you know, we had the GS Coca dona with you is this is the same GS model, but in, you know, basically all black. So it's we call it the black pack. So it's coming with the releasing kind of the same time as the boot. We think it's kind of a nice one, two punch here.

• 34:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah, I like it.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  Pretty excited about this one.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, we hadn't done a like fully kind of murdered out version of the GS. We did the black with the white midsole. We must endure.

• 35:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  Had a little red in it, but this one's all black. So it's, you know.

• 35:13Speaker 03

  And this one has the long lugs as well. So the the lugs are 6.5 millimeters on the boot. They're also 6.5 on the on this bottom as well.

• 35:22Cameron Hanes?

  Pretty aggressive.

• 35:22Speaker 03

  Pretty aggressive.

• 35:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 35:24Speaker 03

  So, you know, pretty nice, kind of, I'd say winner package here.

• 35:27Cameron Hanes?

  It is. It's just like, you know, like the lot that it was the TMT, the white, white ones. I mean, you don't want to get those dirty.

• 35:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know.

• 35:35Cameron Hanes?

  You know, those look kind of fresh. The tree on there and it's just like, no, I want these looking good. So it's nice to have a shoe that is black. You can just thrash that thing and it's all good. But uh, yeah.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a good

• 35:49Cameron Hanes?

  Good winter shoe.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  Yang of that TMT. Yeah.

• 35:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I need, I need bright, cool shoes for church and then for mud. I want black. Looks great. I mean, it's, it's pretty exciting being involved like so closely in, in a process like this and you know, my name's been on stuff before that I wish was a little bit different and you know, I'd make suggestions, suggestions and it wouldn't happen. And it's a little bit frustrating. So it's nice to have you guys be so responsive to changes and like, and not like, oh no, we, we said this was coming out and this time we, you know, whatever our catalog or this or that, it has to come out even whether it's ready or not. So it's, it feels good that you guys, oh, it wasn't ready. Let's make sure it's perfect. That's, that's awesome. I love it.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 36:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  It's a good partnership that way.

• 36:42Cameron Hanes?

  James?

• 36:43Speaker 02

  Okay. So obviously you guys talk about how you kind of scrutinize over the details and, and finishing a product to where you're happy with it. So where do you find that line? Um, cause you, you both kind of seem like the product's never perfect, or you haven't created the perfect product and also coming up with a product that you feel reaches those goals and kind of hits those marks that you wanted to hit.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a good question. It is a good question and, and it's a constant conundrum in, in the business, right? You know, you want to make a perfect product, but if you really are striving for that, then you would never put anything out as a brand.

• 37:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  You know, so you have to find that balance and working with athletes, I think it's a little easier because you can let them answer that question. Like, is this? Would you choose to wear this? Are you happy with that? You know, and in this case with the boot with Cam, it's like he's using it and wearing it and telling us that it's ready, then that's good enough for us. There might be things that we want to improve. For sure, there are things that we learn once we launch a product, then you start getting it on more consumers, different consumers, you get the feedback and you already get start getting a list for how you can make it better for the next one and and that's super valuable too, but you you just can't, progress, not perfection is kind of the the mantra that I think we subscribe to more than anything.

• 38:03Speaker 03

  I mean, we care how it looks, but but we definitely going off function first, like we want it to function great. And if it doesn't look quite right, we're still like, does it function great? Because that's kind of where our head goes first. We're we're definitely more trying to, you know, create that F1 car. It's like a sum of its parts versus, okay, yeah, we're going to tweak this because we want it to look a certain way. That's definitely not us.

• 38:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I I did notice, I like this little detail right here, right there.

• 38:33Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:34Cameron Hanes?

  Run with the land.

• 38:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:35Cameron Hanes?

  See, that's, I like little stuff like that. I mean, you guys do such a good job on the little details that, I mean, who's going to notice that? Not everybody, but I do. I just love, I just love the little whatever, what?

• 38:48Speaker 03

  Easter eggs.

• 38:49Cameron Hanes?

  Flare. It's flare. It's like, that's another good movie, Office Space.

• 38:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:53Cameron Hanes?

  We need 15 pieces of flare on this. That's one. Oh, I think we got one. Yeah, there's something in here, isn't there? Is there something? No, no flare in there. Just a standard speed land.

• 39:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:05Cameron Hanes?

  Need more flare.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  Your, your, your, your boot has flare on this one. You've got your tattoo on there. Yeah.

• 39:11Cameron Hanes?

  I love it. Yeah. What else you got?

• 39:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. Okay, talking about kind of small brands and also how ultra running is kind of on this come up. We're starting to see some separations or cliques of the brands in the industry. You know, you've got brands that are kind of more edgy skater like, like satisfy. And then kind of some more proper brands and maybe they're the bigger ones. So where do you guys kind of see Speedland falling?

• 39:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I think. Well, for one, I would say that we're like we said, like we're positioned more on this high function equipment or from the start, we're like, we don't even want to say we create footwear shoes. We want to say we create equipment. Okay. And so that right away puts it in a totally different zone than say a satisfy, right? Because they're more, I mean, no, no shade on on them, but they're, they're, they're, it's more maybe where fashion means sport to some degree. Mm hmm. And we're definitely more on the high performance equipment. And if, if, if people want to take our equipment into fashion, you know, we're, we're all about it. Right? Yeah.

• 40:15Speaker 03

  But, um, but that's not where we start. We start with equipment mindset, you know, we're, we, we always from the start, we're looking at things like, uh, high performance gear. So it could be stuff like your bow. It could be cycling. It could be skiing. It could be mountain bikes. It could be any number of things, but that's more where our head goes is like, oh yeah, this is a piece of equipment that's going to go with sit right next to your bow, your bow. So something more of that mindset, right? Mm hmm. Yeah, definitely.

• 40:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And I think that, I think sometimes brands try to respond to the market and it's like, they could see like, oh, it's satisfy hot. We gotta be more fashion focused or do we need like, whatever. But you guys have like stayed, no, this is what we do.

• 41:04Speaker 03

  We don't care.

• 41:04Cameron Hanes?

  What's going on?

• 41:05Speaker 03

  We don't care.

• 41:06Cameron Hanes?

  We're going to keep doing this. And I see, you know, you see like, it takes a while, but then Nike's like, oh, we gotta get into trail because it's like this, this hot thing. And it's just like, well, it's more just a response to the market. It's not really like what they want to do is, is like the feeling I get. It's just like, oh, they're like, oh, man, we could sell some product here. We better get something out there. But you guys have never, it's like, this is what we do. We're going to be the, make the best we can. And that's just it. And everybody else can do whatever they want. So.

• 41:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's again, you can't look too much over your shoulder, you know, you have to be aware of what's going on in the market, obviously. But I think we're, we're pretty clear and super focused on our lane. And, uh, you know, the right people find us, you know, the people who want that equipment mindset, who want to feel like they have the best thing to help them through their next big event. Like that's what we're here for.

• 41:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, perfect. I like it.

• 42:03Cameron Hanes?

  Hoyt began with a dream and a simple desire. Create the best bow hunting and target archery equipment possible. And since 1931, that is exactly what they have been doing. I'm skeptical every year that this year's bow will be better than last year's. Yet somehow their engineers seem to figure it out. I think that's what sets them apart is their engineers are all avid hunters themselves. So they take their bows in the field every year with intent to make them stronger, faster, and more accurate. Hoyt is actually my lifetime bow sponsor. Yes, I signed a lifetime contract with them. That is how much I believe in them. Hoyt is offering listeners of the podcast 20% off on all soft good items at Hoyt.com using code CAM.

• 42:47Cameron Hanes?

  That's CAM. When I'm glassing ridges for elk or mule deer, I can't afford to miss any movement. That's why for the past two seasons, I've been using Six Hour Binos and I absolutely love them. These optics change the game. The binos I've been using are the Zulu Image Stabilizing. That means no more shaky glass after a long hike, no more struggling to hold steady after you've humped it up a hill. With image stabilization, you lock in and pick apart the country in a way that just isn't possible with standard glass. I found more animals and saved more time because of these binos, plain and simple. And here's the kicker. Optics companies almost never offer discounts, but SIG is giving the listeners of this podcast 10% off.

• 43:31Cameron Hanes?

  Just use code CAM at checkout. So if you're serious about glassing and want the same edge I've had for the past two seasons, head to SixHour.com, grab a pair of Zulu Binos, and use code CAM for 10% off. Six Hour Zulu Binos. See more, hunt harder. Anything else?

• 43:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I got one more. You guys mentioned, you guys mentioned kind of the difficulties with tariffs and...

• 43:57Speaker 02

  You know how that's impacting. So how does that affect your guys' mission and also making sure that you kind of stick to this idea that you're providing a product that is of the utmost quality with the utmost quality materials. And you know, you guys have all always been kind of in the hot water for the price, but you're also offering a shoe that lasts a long time. So how are those tariffs kind of impacting you guys?

• 44:21Speaker 03

  Well, I'll say at the start, Kevin, to answer this, I would say it definitely doesn't change our mission. We're not, we don't, we don't compromise on our vision, our vision or mission, whatever you want to say. So we are what we are regardless of what crazy stuff the world does one way or the other. But

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it just makes it more challenging to, okay, if we have to shift countries of manufacturer, that's finding a new factory that's capable of building to our standards, capable of building in the quality product. And so those are extra hurdles that we have to go through. We got to find, develop those relationships if we don't have them already. We got to find the places. We got to validate that they can do what they say. And so those are

• 45:03Speaker 03

  Could make us go a little slower.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, it has made us go slower this year. To be fair, some of the things that we were hoping to launch, partially just due to needing to find a different place and make sure that we do maintain that level of quality, just has has slowed us down a little bit. But it doesn't, as Dave pointed out, change our mission. It hasn't changed our mindset. We're not like, oh, well, we should just make lower cost stuff because, you know, that's going to be easier.

• 45:29Cameron Hanes?

  It's too challenging.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, like that doesn't

• 45:31Speaker 03

  The world, the world has enough footwear brands without a point of view. We don't need to be one of those.

• 45:35Cameron Hanes?

  Right. I understand. Well, that's, yeah, I think, I think that should give, I don't know, reassurance to the consumer too, that you guys, I just, that approach, just hearing you say, you know, your approach is quality, it's not going to be compromised. You got your standard, and the standard is a standard, and that doesn't change regardless. And I think, yeah, I think that's great. People can count on that. That's, that's, that's definitely reassuring. So what's the, how's the Speedland athlete stable looking these days?

• 46:08Speaker 01

  Who, who's

• 46:09Speaker 03

  Consistent. Yeah, we still have the same crew that we've had.

• 46:12Cameron Hanes?

  Same crew? Okay.

• 46:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to think. So most recent would be Natalie.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  Natalie Sandoval was an Av this year.

• 46:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's down in Arizona.

• 46:22Speaker 03

  She's supposed to be doing Javelina, but she uh, she's a little bit injured. So she's

• 46:26Cameron Hanes?

  dang.

• 46:26Speaker 03

  She's not gonna do that, but she'll still, still trying to get ready for next year. So it's unfortunate, but she's

• 46:33Speaker 01

  Avery had a great.

• 46:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, he ran, he ran Bigfoot, took third.

• 46:36Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, good. Yeah. Okay. Nice. Who? So Bigfoot. Oh, Killian, of course, won.

• 46:42Speaker 03

  Killian won. Avery, Avery and Killian were kinda going back and forth.

• 46:46Cameron Hanes?

  Really?

• 46:46Speaker 03

  For a while. Yeah.

• 46:47Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, he's had a good run.

• 46:48Speaker 03

  He had a really good run. It was a, it was a good one. And then, you know, Killian, I guess, pulled away there. But um, but it was a great one. And I think Avery was pretty happy with that.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. He kinda, he's one that we talked about nutrition. He really reset his approach to training with nutrition. He, he was on the bike.

• 47:03Speaker 03

  On the bike a lot, a lot more.

• 47:05Speaker 01

  More this year.

• 47:05Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, really?

• 47:06Speaker 01

  To balance that not getting the body so beat up from trying to run all the miles. So he's running and cycling. And I think he saw some results this year from mixing that up. And

• 47:16Cameron Hanes?

  That's interesting.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  It was a great one. Um.

• 47:18Speaker 03

  Of course, we still have Dylan. We have, of course, we still have Don. Uh, Don just ran the 24 hour world champs, championships, uh, over in France.

• 47:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yep. How'd that go?

• 47:28Speaker 01

  It'll be. Uh. He said it wasn't their day. So I, we haven't had a chance to catch up with him yet. So the US men's team didn't do as well as they had hoped. And I think the US women's team.

• 47:38Speaker 03

  I think they did pretty well.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  Did pretty well. I think they finished fourth.

• 47:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:42Cameron Hanes?

  Was it on a track? Just how many miles you can get in 24 hours? Is that what it was? Yeah.

• 47:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:47Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 47:47Speaker 03

  So it's a little bit, a little bit different type of event, but uh.

• 47:50Cameron Hanes?

  Brutal.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  Brutal.

• 47:51Cameron Hanes?

  God.

• 47:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's a, I don't know. It's, it's weird. So there's so many different things going on out there. Everybody's like playing the game. Like, how do I get eyeballs on me? So there's, there's that. That's pretty, I mean, that's like been around for a while. 24 hours, you run as far as you can. Then there's the races. Everybody loves the races and the live tracking and the GPS and all that stuff. And then there's like the, like the run across the country or run across Texas. So it's like, everybody, or I think I saw somebody saying they're gonna run 700 miles in seven days. But I don't know. It's just weird how everybody's coming up with.

• 48:31Speaker 03

  These new.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  And then the FKT is kind of adjacent to that.

• 48:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  So known routes and how fast can you do those? I think you've talked about it on the podcast as well. There's just so many different formats in trail now that that's really interesting, you know, from from these backyard ultras to the the distances varying and it's it's pretty exciting time in the space.

• 48:55Cameron Hanes?

  It's fun that, I don't know, you always want to see like get your favorite athletes. Like I like one of my favorite FK tiers is Tara Dower, right? So then you're like, oh, I want her to do good at whatever Western. I know she didn't get into Hard Rock. I wanted to see, but you're always like, how could they do? Or, you know, Jeff Garmeyer, he ran, he'd always does good at Kokadonna. And then he just got the FKT on the AT. And it's like, it's just fun seeing like, who can or Courtney on the road now, you know, it's like the queen of mountains. What can she do on the is it's just cool. It's like, there's so many different and it's all based on endurance. And we talked about human potential. How how hard and how

• 49:35Cameron Hanes?

  far can you push or how fast can you push? And that's what's amazing. We're still trying to figure this shit out. Humans have been around a while. And we're still like, that's what I say. It's like, we're the most amazing species because we're still getting better. Or, I don't know, figuring out ways to push harder. And yeah, I love, I mean, I'm addicted to all of it. It's like, I just, you know, I'm following Jeff Garmires every day, his, you know, crazy updates because he's been out there forever. And it's like, the weather's just brutal. And yeah, I just love it all. I'm just addicted to seeing what humans can do.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  It's really cool. Yeah, I mean, I agree. It's such an interesting time. So it's fun to see the people cross over and, you know, is Courtney going to be as good as everyone expects her to be? And of course, she killed it in that first one. And I'm sure she'll continue to get better. And sometimes you see the opposite. Somebody jumps in, you think, oh, they were so good at that. They're going to crush here. And they don't usually takes a little while. So but all of it makes it really exciting.

• 50:38Cameron Hanes?

  It is because like with her, you know, if you're running in the mountains and nine minute mile, you're flying, right? So now she needs to get down to

• 50:48Cameron Hanes?

  Around a six minute mile to getting that to the two thirties.

• 50:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:52Cameron Hanes?

  And a whole different game.

• 50:53Speaker 03

  That turnovers is quite different.

• 50:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So just getting on the track like for ultras, oh, I think some people do. I know Roach does, but like that speed work. I've never done speed work. I'm like, I don't, I never, not even for a marathon. So maybe I need to. But yeah, it's just, it's just a whole different discipline, essentially. It's still running, but it's different.

• 51:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:14Cameron Hanes?

  But it's just fun to see that how it translates. Definitely. Well, what's a, so do you guys have like a, what's a vision for Speedland? Like where, where are we headed? More cool shit?

• 51:24Speaker 03

  More cool shit. Still, you know, different products for the mountains. So, you know, obviously the boot's new. But we're, you have some cool, cool, uh, let's say new models planned for next year that we don't have out yet.

• 51:38Speaker 01

  We'll have a non waterproof version of that boot.

• 51:41Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Which will be in that coyote brown color, probably in the spring, that shoe that we talked about a little bit earlier, the Leadville.

• 51:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 51:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  Um, we're dialing that in. That's another exciting one for the spring.

• 51:53Speaker 03

  It's kind of a ultra, think of it as like an ultra race shoe. If this is kind of more of a ultra train, the GS is more of a kind of ultra train shoe.

• 52:01Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 52:02Speaker 03

  The Leadville is more of like an ultra race shoe.

• 52:05Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 52:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  The first time.

• 52:07Speaker 03

  Light, light.

• 52:07Cameron Hanes?

  A little lighter.

• 52:08Speaker 03

  A little lighter, still max stack, but a little lighter, fast. Um, we're pretty excited about that one.

• 52:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I, I didn't, so I wore a version of that.

• 52:17Speaker 03

  You tested a prototype of it. Yeah.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 52:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And I did like it and it looked cool.

• 52:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:21Cameron Hanes?

  It was, it was sick.

• 52:23Speaker 03

  It'll look, it'll look.

• 52:24Speaker 01

  It'll look similar.

• 52:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yes. Well, that, that's good. And tell me, just tell me real quick, the price difference between the waterproof version of the boot and the non waterproof?

• 52:35Speaker 01

  We haven't actually set, I mean, the price on the waterproof one's two ninety nine.

• 52:39Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  And so it'll be a bit less for the non waterproof.

• 52:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, we haven't exactly said it. Yeah.

• 52:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Cause I, I know that anytime we add features like boa costs money.

• 52:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:52Cameron Hanes?

  The, your, the waterproof membrane costs money, the Michelin.

• 52:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:57Cameron Hanes?

  That costs money. So anytime you add these little features, it's going to cost a little bit more, but it's also adding to the product. Or maybe you don't need it. Like with the non waterproof, maybe that's for a summer mountain hunt type thing. You don't need to pack around that waterproof membrane. But yeah, any, anytime you add features.

• 53:16Cameron Hanes?

  You're adding cost, but yeah, I was just curious. I, so you guys haven't nailed it down yet, but yeah.

• 53:21Speaker 01

  I mean, we'd love to get that at 250.

• 53:23Speaker 03

  250 would be our ideal if we could do it.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, if the economics of that work for us, then that's what we'll do.

• 53:30Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. Well, that's cool. I mean, I've got a lot of messages on the boot. People saw the pictures. People saw, you know, some of the video. And so this is going to be a, a good listen for them. You can find out all, all you want about the new Speedland boot and uh, yeah, thank you guys for, I didn't, I just, I, you know, thanks for what you do for me personally, but also pushing the market and uh, challenging the market and what Speedland has done with, with coming in, I think has changed the game and people had to respond and they have and it's, you know, everybody wins. As you said, so thank you guys.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 54:05Cameron Hanes?

  All right. Keep hammering guys.

• 54:08Speaker 04

  Someone to blame. They sent their hate. It fuels my pace. I am right up. I am the change, the fuel in dirt. Feeling like Cam Hanks.

• 54:22Speaker 04

  Oh, give me the mods. Nobody wants. I'll give you my heart. I carry the work. Give me that impossible task. I'll give you that unbreakable courage. Give me that rise up in that hurt. I'll give you that mindset that I earned. Give me that last question I heard that I just died that I endured. Give me them odds. Nobody wants. I'll give you my heart. I carry the work. Give me that impossible task. I'll give you that unbreakable courage. Give me that rise up in that hurt. I'll give you that mindset that I earned. Give me that last question I heard that I just died that I endured.