You Could Be Having Better Sex feat. Dr. Nicole McNichols

Consider this episode Better Sex 101. We are joined by Dr. Nicole McNichols, hailed America’s #1 sex professor, for an in-depth discussion about how to level up your pleasure, starting with yourself and understanding the hierarchy of sexual needs. We talk about libido fluctuating over time and the factors that affect it, what sexual mindfulness is and how to practice it, how to work through body image issues, and the small but simple life hacks for better sex. Then we discuss sex in long-term relationships – why planning intimacy is hot and leads to higher sexual satisfaction, how to keep falling in love with your partner, the different types of intimacy, why "distance makes the heart grow fonder” is a myth, and if couples can get freakier later in life. We then dive into the dynamics of casual sex (why it’s not for everyone and how to know if it’s for you) and Gen Z (why they’re having less sex but may be more intentional about it, porn problems, and more). Before Nicole joins us, we catch up on Rayna’s bodysuit malfunction, Ashley’s elite concert experience, and we have another gift opening on air. Enjoy! Follow Nicole on Instagram @nicole_thesexprofessor and get her book You Could Be Having Better Sex. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit https://girlsgottaeat.com for live show tickets and more. Thank you to our partners this week: Spark: Get 30% off plus free shipping at https://drinkspark.com with code GGE. Skims: Get our favorite bras and underwear at https://skims.com/gge. Nature’s Sunshine: Get 20% off your first order and free shipping at https://naturessunshine.com with code GGE. Hungry Root: Get 40% off your first box and free item in every box for life at https://hungryroot.com/GGE with code GGE. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  So many people want to be having better sex, but they don't really know where to start because the options seem limitless and they are, but how do you even figure out where to begin?

• 0:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  This podcast is a Dear Media production.

• 0:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat.

• 0:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Feels good to have you back.

• 0:33Rayna Greenberg?

  You peeked over the fence, didn't you?

• 0:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Listen, we, the episode came out with Shashank and it was really great.

• 0:40Rayna Greenberg?

  I know, it's great.

• 0:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Cute and he did a great job, but we did it. We did have to do a test run, I will say that. And I love that about him. He doesn't want to do this.

• 0:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Listen, couldn't be me being with somebody who needs to hold a microphone.

• 0:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  A hundred percent.

• 0:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Find me a man that wants no presents anywhere besides in my bedroom.

• 1:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  When we filmed his video for Kitchen Sink, I was like, we are at no risk of him wanting to become an influencer. He fucking hated it. He hated that. He hated this. He loved, you know, doing Girls Gotta Eat. He loves the podcast, but he does not have any desire and that's what I want in a partner.

• 1:15Rayna Greenberg?

  What a gift. What a gift. Listen, I, I woke up this morning and I read the comments on Spotify because it was our first week doing video on Spotify and I mean, it's the most comments I've ever seen on Spotify that early in the morning. And I was like, oh, people like love him. People like love the dynamic. They love to see you guys. It made me like so happy to be like, if I can't be in my home, then like somebody that I love, who represents me well is in my home, Shashank.

• 1:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Who doesn't want your job.

• 1:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Who doesn't. Well, he can't have it.

• 1:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  But he's not coming for it. He's not coming for even, you know, like in Nobody Wants This, they brought in like Noah, Noah's Corner or whatever.

• 1:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, whatever they called it.

• 1:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Whatever they called it. Yeah. Like, no, he wants no part of that. Like, he was like, I don't want to be given dating invite. I don't want people to want anything from me.

• 1:57Rayna Greenberg?

  I just, listen, I love Andrew Collins so much. He's one of our closest friends. I love him so much, but I podcasted with him twice as the only other co-host.

• 2:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 2:06Rayna Greenberg?

  And I missed you. I always miss you.

• 2:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  This seems like a man problem.

• 2:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, you've men. I would be a little more concerned if it was a woman. I really would. Like, I could see like some of our friends, like Taylor Strecker co-hosting with you and I would be a little more concerned.

• 2:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, I just meant like, they're not as good because they're men. That's where I was going.

• 2:24Rayna Greenberg?

  And are the problem.

• 2:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, next time we'll have women.

• 2:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Less men on this show and on Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.

• 2:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, we love Andrew. We love Shoshong, obviously.

• 2:33Rayna Greenberg?

  We marry him, yeah.

• 2:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I'm wearing a bodysuit today and it's, you know, I always like to say, just if I appear to be uncomfortable, that's why. But Rain, I have to tell you something. I went to this concert. I'm going to talk about the concert. I saw a girl, I was coming out of the bathroom. She was in the lobby of the Peacock Theater, which by the way, is where we went to that Joe Biden thing. Remember?

• 2:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh.

• 2:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Just so you have been to the theater, so you can picture it. She's in the wild.

• 2:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 2:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  She's by the bar, bodysuit, hanging out the back over her jeans.

• 2:58Rayna Greenberg?

  I feel that.

• 2:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  I feel that. What a queen. But you can tuck it in your pants. And she might have been like drunk, but like, we've all been there. We've all unsnapped our bodysuit and we keep it tucked. She, I was like, her pussy was on that. Like, she's, God.

• 3:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Her toilet paper is hanging off the back of her shirt.

• 3:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was like, her bodysuit flap is hanging down her ass crack. That was just in her pussy.

• 3:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Did you tell her?

• 3:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, I couldn't, no, I think she was.

• 3:25Rayna Greenberg?

  She was just living life.

• 3:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Purposeful.

• 3:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, okay.

• 3:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, she's like, let it fly.

• 3:28Rayna Greenberg?

  It's sort of like when there's toilet paper on your shoe. I mean, it is kind of that in the shirt world. Like, that is her toilet paper.

• 3:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think it was intentional. I think she was like, fuck it.

• 3:37Rayna Greenberg?

  I have to tell you this.

• 3:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 3:38Rayna Greenberg?

  I did two shows in Philly last week and first show, one great, my shirt was tight. And the second show, like, my opener got on stage and I was like, I have to go to the bathroom. And he was like, then go to the bathroom. And I was like, I don't think I can get this off without you zipping it back up for me. And he was like, just unbutton it. I was like, okay, I'll unbutton it. So I unbuttoned it, went to the bathroom, did rebutton it, but I only did one button instead of two. I got on stage, actually, that thing unsnapped five minutes into my set. And what was I gonna do? I had to perform the whole set with it unbuttoned.

• 4:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, this happened to me in New Haven.

• 4:06Rayna Greenberg?

  I feel it in my stomach. I come uncomfortable.

• 4:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  I sat down and it was like, it was like a fart where the two snaps just bust open. Do you remember this? And I had to go up to the side of the stage and I was just down in here. You were out there like, so what's up, guys? How's everybody feeling? You're like, crowd working by yourself. I was like, Bella, help me. Like, and I never got it snapped. Like, I just had to perform like that. But at least I could try. You are up there alone.

• 4:31Rayna Greenberg?

  I could have asked him to like tap back in for a minute, but I mean, the last thing that you and I want is to be like aware of our bodies on stage like that. Like, I don't know, you and I always think like, can we sit in this outfit? And so I don't want to be aware of my clothing as I'm trying to give an hour-long monologue. I mean, it was on my mind the entire time.

• 4:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  That was on you, though, only snapping one.

• 4:50Rayna Greenberg?

  It was.

• 4:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Raina, you can't.

• 4:52Rayna Greenberg?

  That was crazy.

• 4:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're just, you can never.

• 4:54Rayna Greenberg?

  That was chaotic.

• 4:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Ladies, don't ever think one snap is gonna hold in your pussy.

• 4:58Rayna Greenberg?

  No.

• 4:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's just.

• 5:00Rayna Greenberg?

  The weight of the world is on that one little button.

• 5:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  A hundred percent.

• 5:02Rayna Greenberg?

  And it's crazy. And I just like was so aware of it, but I do have a lot of bodysuits coming up. I mean, I, it's bodysuit nation for this tour.

• 5:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. I mean, like, you know, do what you gotta do.

• 5:11Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't want to. It's just, that's what I picked for my clothing.

• 5:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hello, a bodysuit queen over here. I love them, but I just, sometimes you can't. I did wear bodysuits to that concert and I, when I saw hers hanging out her back, I was like jealous. Okay, let's thank our partners.

• 5:27Rayna Greenberg?

  All right. Thanks to Spark. Get 30% off plus free shipping at drinkspark.com with code GGE. And Skims, get our favorite bras and underwear at skims.com/GGE.

• 5:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  And a thank you to Hungry Root. Get 40% off your first box and a free item in every box for life at hungryroot.com/GGE with code GGE. And thank you to Nature's Sunshine. Get 20% off your first order and free shipping at nature's sunshine.com with code GGE.

• 5:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 5:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 5:55Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you want to tell me about the concert? Like the actual concert?

• 5:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I went to the R and B lovers concert. Headliner Keith Sweat, which is not why I was there.

• 6:07Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 6:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Joe, remember Joe? I wanna know what turns you on. And then he did stutter, stutter. Do you remember that song?

• 6:16Rayna Greenberg?

  Stutter, stutter. Yeah.

• 6:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, uh huh. With mystical?

• 6:18Rayna Greenberg?

  It's just Joe.

• 6:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Just Joe.

• 6:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Like J O E?

• 6:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, just Joe.

• 6:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Kind of in my head, I wouldn't have known that. Not like Fat Joe, just Joe.

• 6:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Just Joe. He should change it to. And then who? I was really there to see Genuine and Drew Hill. And obviously Cisco is the lead singer of Drew Hill and I was such.

• 6:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Cisco, Thong Song.

• 6:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 6:39Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't know this.

• 6:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're an R and B lover on a level that I'm not. Right. So Cisco is the lead singer of Drew Hill and then he had his solo era. And that album is one of my favorite albums. Unleashed the Dragon is one of my favorite albums and Thong Song's on that track eight. And it's like Caleb, my best guy friend from high school who was at my wedding. It's like our album, like we listened to all through high school. I remember when it came out, we would ride around. Civic, just bumping it. So I'm a huge fan of Cisco alone. The thong song at my wedding was the most hype moment of the night, aside from the very last song.

• 7:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 7:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  People kept coming up to me like, I haven't ever gotten that lit on the thong song. I'm like, you have not been.

• 7:14Rayna Greenberg?

  They haven't. Yeah. I've only ever gotten that lit on the thong song.

• 7:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  And Genuine. So here's the thing. Keith Sweat is 60.

• 7:22Rayna Greenberg?

  What?

• 7:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  He is an older performer. So I feel like Keith Sweat is a different, not kind of generation. That's a little more Gen X. And then Drew Hill is our generation. Genuine's our generation. Joe kind of bridges the gap. But this was Keith Sweat's headlining tour. And it became apparent as I realized how old the crowd was. So I love an older crowd.

• 7:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Same.

• 7:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love that.

• 7:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Love it.

• 7:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Being at the Lovers and Friends Festival, I was like, everyone is like late 30s, 40s. Not as many 50s and 60s at a festival. They're not going to the festival in Vegas in the heat. Raina, the old heads up in this concert hall, like, people were sitting all night. Like, people had fans. I mean, people were like, at one point, the DJ came on and was like, make some noise if you 50 plus. Like, I was like, how am I 42, the youngest person in the room?

• 8:10Rayna Greenberg?

  Did you like it though?

• 8:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  I fucking loved it.

• 8:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Like that energy?

• 8:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  These are my people. But it skewed older because Keith Sweat was the headliner. So a lot of these people stayed seated until Keith Sweat came on. They had to just save up. And there was like pockets of people who are like, these are my Cisco girlies. You know, like, you could tell the crowd was kind of divided into like millennial, Gen X boomer.

• 8:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, this is honestly my dream vibe for a concert, okay?

• 8:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  100%.

• 8:34Rayna Greenberg?

  I just, sometimes I avoid going to concerts because I'm like, I don't want to stand and sway the entire time.

• 8:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 8:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, after Taylor Swift, after the Eras Tour, I was like, I just had a workout. Like, I mean, that's the top.

• 8:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, Beyonce, our feet are killing us.

• 8:47Rayna Greenberg?

  That's the top for me, Taylor Swift, where I knew every single song. I was like, doing the concert with her for four hours, obviously. But like, we went to Third Eye Blind, and we got to sit for like, more than 50% of that concert. Like, what a pleasure. You just stand up for like Semi Charmed Life and like, one Machine Gun Kelly was there. And then that's it. You could just relax. What a dream.

• 9:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  So what I will also say, not as much filming on cell phones.

• 9:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Wow.

• 9:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's like an older crowd. I mean, people got their one videos, but I just, I love an older crowd and I love to feel young. When else do I get to go to a concert and feel like the youngest person?

• 9:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Never. It never happens. Third Eye Blind was the first time, you took me, I would love to tell you, it was the first time I've ever been that young at a concert.

• 9:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's chill. Nice.

• 9:28Rayna Greenberg?

  90s groups. Okay. So Genuine came out first. They started eight o'clock on the dot. People got to bedtime.

• 9:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was in the merch light.

• 9:35Rayna Greenberg?

  What Sherri Brooks said.

• 9:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  I thought that because I'm like, you never really know. But also with acts like that, they aren't divas anymore. Like you better start on time. People are gonna wait around.

• 9:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 9:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  And yes, people gotta go to bed. So Genuine came out, played, played all the hits, ended with Pony. No notes. Then Cisco came out, did a few of his solo tracks. I was like thong song. Here we go. Let's go. He did not do thong song.

• 9:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Ashley, get the fuck out of here.

• 9:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  I am still so upset and confused and I just feel like there has to be a reason why. He played another song from the solo album, A Deep Cut. He sampled the DMX song that I know all the words to, that all the women's names.

• 10:12Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm so shook by this.

• 10:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  How do you not play thong song? And everyone's gonna get on their feet like dun dun dun dun dun. Like you hear it start. I'm hyped even thinking about it.

• 10:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. I, I mean, I do understand as an artist, you're like, I can't do this again. Everybody, it's too much.

• 10:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, no, no.

• 10:26Rayna Greenberg?

  It doesn't matter. This is the number one song. This is what people come for. You gotta give me the thong song. I wore my thong for this.

• 10:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  A hundred percent. That girl unsnapped her bodysuits hanging down her back for this. So I didn't really understand. They were all great. Everybody, they still got it, you know? And I really did love the concert, but there was a point where Joe, I'm gonna, I was gonna post this. And I do have a reel. I did a whole reel for the night. If you want to go look at my Instagram. But I took a video and Joe was on stage, sitting in like kind of a throne and just for like one song. It was, it was like a prop for whatever.

• 10:58Rayna Greenberg?

  No shame.

• 10:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  But then I kind of.

• 10:59Rayna Greenberg?

  I miss sitting at shows.

• 11:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  I pay, I pay on the audience. I'm like, when everyone has to sit, even the talent, like this is how you know you're at a 40 plus concert. Also, I went with two moms of three kids. So Brooke and then her friend that she grew up with and Brooke drove us and we're going out to the car and I was like, you can sit in the front, whatever. Her name's Sharon. And they were like, no, Ashley, you sit in the front. I was like, oh, because we're gonna be in a mom car. Sharon sat in between two car seats in the back. I was like, this is the most millennial, elder millennial, you're riding in the car seats, crumbs everywhere on my seat, to go see these 90s groups, to go see Keith Sweat.

• 11:34Rayna Greenberg?

  I was like, we had a good run. That's most people's experience in their 30s. Okay, we made it to our 40s before we had to sit between car seats.

• 11:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  But I didn't know. It was just so funny. They were, no, no, Ashley, you, you, you sit up front. You're not gonna lodge yourself between two car seats.

• 11:48Rayna Greenberg?

  You're so lucky, because you know they would have made me do it. They'd be like, "Rihanna, you're the smallest person in this car."

• 11:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  You can sit in the car seat.

• 11:52Rayna Greenberg?

  You're the size of the car seat, actually. Right, just get in the car seat.

• 11:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  So that, it was just great. I mean, I love these bands so much, and I just, when they were like, "If you 50 or older, make some noise," I was like, "Oh my God, am I that young?"

• 12:07Rayna Greenberg?

  You're young for that crowd, and that's, that's the kind of experience I think I want.

• 12:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  So many dapper, middle-aged men with like a hat on.

• 12:16Rayna Greenberg?

  You can picture it. Honestly, it's the no phones thing also for me. It's just like-

• 12:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know.

• 12:20Rayna Greenberg?

  People being able to enjoy a concert.

• 12:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Really enjoy it.

• 12:22Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm part of the problem too. I get it. But like, man, that's nice, not seeing a thousand phones.

• 12:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  But I, I think, like, we're all in the same boat, where we're gonna take a few videos of our favorite songs, but you know those people that filmed the whole concert, for what?

• 12:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, it's like fireworks. No, who, what do you want? No one wants to see this? Who's watching this? You're never gonna watch it again.

• 12:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And I just had one other thing, I just thought you'd appreciate this. So, we're all standing up there at the bar. I order a beer. It's a 25 ounce can of Stella. I'm like, "I can't drink it. This will be warm by the time I get halfway through this." Brooke was like, "I'll have some of your beer if they can give you a cup." I said, "Can you, can you give us a cup?" "No, can't give, can't give you a cup." "We don't do courtesy cups anymore. You have to pay for a cup." I'm like, "I can't have a cup?"

• 12:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Because they know people are gonna split that 25 ounce beer.

• 13:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly. Like, or they were like, "We used to, but we have to inventory all the cups." I'm like, "Whatever."

• 13:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Inventory the cups.

• 13:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  So, we're walking back into the theater. We're like, "Whatever, fine." And then Brooke, which I appreciate something I would do, she hits one more person up on the way out, like one more cashier, and she goes, "Do you have a cup? I can have it." And he does the same thing. "I wish I could, but I have to inventory the cups." And I'm standing-

• 13:21Rayna Greenberg?

  What does that mean?

• 13:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's just they have to ring it in.

• 13:23Rayna Greenberg?

  I have questions. Then ring it in, charge me for a cup.

• 13:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, so, I go, I was like, "You can't just give me a cup." I was like, "I got this big can. I have aluminum sensitivity."

• 13:32Rayna Greenberg?

  And Brooke-

• 13:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not the allergy.

• 13:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Bro, literally, I thought she was, she goes, and she ran away. She was laughing so hard. She was like, not the aluminum sensitivity, the way it just flew out of your mouth.

• 13:44Rayna Greenberg?

  You know, I love when you lie.

• 13:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't.

• 13:46Rayna Greenberg?

  You really commit to it.

• 13:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, full commitment. I have an aluminum sensitivity and it still didn't work. And he was like, I can't.

• 13:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  He didn't even flinch though. He probably was like a hundred percent. I feel so.

• 13:57Rayna Greenberg?

  He's like, you're the fifth person last hour that has an aluminum sensitivity. Fuck you. It's crazy. You never see it in the wild, except for at this concert.

• 14:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, but like, all these people are old. We all have something wrong with us. He was probably like, I've heard that a bunch of times. So then he was like, I would have to charge you for a cup. I said, what do you have to charge me? He goes, I'd have to charge you the price of a soda and it's expensive. I was like, I don't fucking care. It's Brooke's birthday, $7.99. I was like, for a fucking cup? Worth it. Like, we split the beer. Again, it was her birthday. I was like, fine.

• 14:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Listen, a 25 ounce beer is like a 40. And if you hold that in your hand, it gets warm.

• 14:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Insane.

• 14:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Give me a cup so that I can temperature control this.

• 14:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  And share this.

• 14:35Rayna Greenberg?

  This is crazy. I have to charge you for a soda. Okay.

• 14:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was like, fine. He was probably, she is rich. Eight dollars for a cup. And then I was like.

• 14:44Rayna Greenberg?

  Was it plastic or is it a collector's cup?

• 14:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, it's like, a plastic hard cup that should be a commemorative cup. I was like, okay, well, it's a commemorative cup. It's gonna say, no, just some stupid fucking cup. Probably says Cisco or whatever, not Cisco, the Performers, Cisco, the food delivery, like some dumb brand name on it. Nothing to take home.

• 14:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Wow.

• 15:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Anyway.

• 15:00Rayna Greenberg?

  No cups. Also, that beer, you gotta be rich to afford that beer. Obviously, you can afford a soda with the beer.

• 15:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right. So, anyway, I just think that stuff is like, so fucking stupid, but whatever. He was like, we used to take them out courtesy cups. I was like, okay, can you just dig one up? So that was really my weekend and you've been gone forever.

• 15:16Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't even know where I am. I am drained on a level that is crazy. I'm so tired. And I was like, am I right? Like, I got back to New York on Friday after DC and Philly. I never got out of bed. I sent you a few text messages. I got in bed at noon and I got back up the next day at 10 a.m. I opened the door to get food twice.

• 15:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, that's really how it is.

• 15:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I'm tired. It's a lot.

• 15:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, it's, so, this is not a hot take. I really have decided that sleep is my number one priority and it has to be. And it has to be above all else.

• 15:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Same as for years.

• 15:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  But it just the way that it affects you. I was reading last night how it affects your weight. And actually, under seven hours of sleep can affect the hungry hormones and the satiation hormones.

• 15:58Rayna Greenberg?

  And make you hungry?

• 15:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Store belly fat. It's cortisol. It's all this stuff. And last week for one night, I just, I don't know. I went to bed too late, woke up at five, couldn't get back to sleep. Then I had the next day to get on a plane, go do that chicks in the office show in Seattle, which was really fun. I came back home. I was like, I look like a different person. I, my brain is not functioning. And then I got 11 hours of sleep, didn't wake up at all, like slept straight, straight through the night. I woke up. I looked like a different person. I felt thinner. I just was like, this is it.

• 16:28Rayna Greenberg?

  11 hours, which is crazy. So I, I can't do more than nine. That fucks me up too. 10 hour, I got 10 hours. My whole face was puffy. I was all out of it. I was the ugliest face day I've had in a long time.

• 16:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Cause you lack of sleep?

• 16:39Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I got.

• 16:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Too much sleep?

• 16:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Too much sleep.

• 16:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, there's not. That's what I'm saying. This can't be a thing.

• 16:44Rayna Greenberg?

  I can't go under eight and I can't go over nine.

• 16:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  You won't just, oh.

• 16:48Rayna Greenberg?

  Under eight.

• 16:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  I didn't know you had a top.

• 16:50Rayna Greenberg?

  I didn't realize until how ugly I looked on Saturday. I was like, this is the ugliest face I've had. And I've been feeling my face lately. And I was like, not now.

• 16:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  I really truly felt like I had a different face. Like the way I looked at that chick show, I was like, who is he?

• 17:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like I couldn't even really get my hair right. Like it just, this is not a hot take at all, but I used to really not need that much sleep. And I was like, obviously hydration is important, exercise, but now sleep is in that top slot. And I always have been in this recently, seven to eight range. I think I'm doing eight to nine. Like I want to strive for nine. And eight is the minimum.

• 17:24Rayna Greenberg?

  I think it's the key to youth. I think it makes your skin better. I just think it makes me a better person. It's, you know me, like I hit the wall sometimes at like 6pm. And I'm like, I'll get up tomorrow morning at 5am because I'm done for the day. Like I can't do anything else. But no, the shows were great. Your family came to my show in Philly. And it just meant the world to me. Your cousin Lindsay and Buck and your sister in law staff and Matt stayed home with the kids. And I just, I don't know. It meant the world to me.

• 17:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Matt was in Nashville. There was someone else with the kids. The kids were in the crate.

• 17:49Rayna Greenberg?

  The kids, no, she took their kids to your, her sister in law, to her sister's house.

• 17:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  To cats house.

• 17:53Rayna Greenberg?

  I knew that Matt got home.

• 17:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  At some point that would have been there.

• 17:55Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes, I'm trying to remember why. Yes.

• 17:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Matt didn't skip your show to babysit. Or sorry, to parent.

• 18:00Rayna Greenberg?

  If he did, if he did.

• 18:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, no.

• 18:03Rayna Greenberg?

  It's parenting when it's a mom is babysitting when it's a dad.

• 18:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, he was to parent. He was, he was traveling for work.

• 18:08Rayna Greenberg?

  It just, it meant the world to me to see them there and have them there and just like your family is my family and I just love them so much. And our hunkamania strippers came and that meant a lot to me, too.

• 18:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, everybody needs to know, did they get naked?

• 18:20Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I left them alone. I just was like, this is their special night out. I can't like objectify. If I objectified anybody, it would have been Buck.

• 18:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right. I mean, I was getting so many messages. It was really sweet, like from the strippers, from.

• 18:34Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, and your best friend Cory. Sorry.

• 18:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, like Cory and Lee from the strippers, from our girl who works for the Eagles, Kelsey, like from Lindsay and Buck, from Steph. Like it was just, everybody was messaging me and it was like very funny to be, they're like, oh my God, like I'm here. Like, I know y'all are there. Like, it was just cute, but I feel like people are like, can you believe it? We're here. Yeah.

• 19:00Rayna Greenberg?

  It's the most you should have been at a show that you couldn't be at.

• 19:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 19:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Cause like I had to like apologize to everybody. I was like, I'm so sorry, guys, but Ashley wanted me to let you know, go Birds. And like everybody yelled and cheered and I did acknowledge you and.

• 19:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Thank God.

• 19:12Rayna Greenberg?

  DC was pretty funny, too, because my opener, he got up there and he's like, you guys love Rayna. I've been on the tour for a while. Ashley usually opens and people are like, ah, and he was like, oh no, she's not here.

• 19:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  She shouldn't have said my name.

• 19:24Rayna Greenberg?

  He really lost them after that. It was hysterical.

• 19:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, don't open with Ashley's not here.

• 19:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Ashley's not here. He's like, Ashley's been on a lot of this tour. She's not at this one.

• 19:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, and we have a thing that we call back to. It's like really something that I do when I host. And then Matt calls back to it and it's like one of my favorite parts of his set when he talks about me. But it always hits and the audience always goes crazy. And then he probably was upset he didn't get to do that.

• 19:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, but it just, both shows were, all four shows were really fun and wonderful. And I went to DC and I saw you in the green room right away. I saw your little picture and it just was really fun. So thanks for coming out, guys.

• 19:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, I love that.

• 20:00Rayna Greenberg?

  See you in Texas this week.

• 20:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, when is it this week? Like, when do you leave?

• 20:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Dallas is Wednesday, Austin is Thursday, and then Houston is not sold out yet. That's Sunday night. So if you guys want to come and do a show in Texas, come to Houston, rainagreenberg.com. And that's it.

• 20:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, so fun.

• 20:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, so I do want to talk to you more about your honeymoon.

• 20:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, I have your gift.

• 20:19Rayna Greenberg?

  You bought me a gift on your honeymoon?

• 20:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 20:22Rayna Greenberg?

  What is it?

• 20:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, it's a good gift. It's a good gift.

• 20:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Wait, I love, Ashley, I love these. These are chopsticks from Singapore and they're really beautiful.

• 20:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  They come with a little pouch?

• 20:32Rayna Greenberg?

  We're gonna zoom in so you can see them because people were upset that we didn't zoom in on the necklace I bought you.

• 20:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. So we cleaned this store out of chopsticks, Reina, and we laid them all out last night to decide who gets them. We're like rationing them. She had a basket at this store on Arab Street. We took every chopstick and we're like, do you have more in the back? I mean, it's the perfect gift.

• 20:52Rayna Greenberg?

  I love this little pouch.

• 20:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  They're porcelain. They're so dope.

• 20:55Rayna Greenberg?

  So I have this little drawer of chopsticks because people have bought me chopsticks for like special. Andushka and Sean got me like chopsticks when I moved into the house and it's just like a really special gift. And it's like, I eat sushi at home a lot. It's like really nice to have this like special, thank you so much. These are so pretty. I'm trying to put them in their bag.

• 21:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're welcome. So to anyone listening, like you may or may not get them, like, I mean, like my family and we just were like, who gets these chopsticks? Like they're really special. They say that Singapore experience on them or something on the front. We found like the perfect gift to get for people. Rob got me chopsticks from Japan on his honeymoon.

• 21:28Rayna Greenberg?

  He got them for both of us, right? They're inscribed?

• 21:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, they say girls gotta eat on them. Yeah, his honeymoon in Japan, he got them for us. I've just always remembered how special a gift that was. So that's your gift. And on that note, I mean, we did recap mostly last week on the podcast and obviously you know what happened on the honeymoon. We were voice noting you and everything and filling you in, but we didn't really dive too deeply into the food last week. And so I waited for you. I mean, it was incredible and you really hyped it so much on just so many different cuisines. I mean, when you get there and you learn about the history of Singapore, it makes sense why it's so multicultural. And you have these fine dining experiences and these nice restaurants and middle of the road restaurants too. But then the main thing are these Hawker centers, which are food courts essentially.

• 22:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  And they just have all these stalls. Some of them have Michelin stars. It's crazy. It's crazy to have a Michelin star at a food stall. There's one that's a chicken and rice place called Tion Tion that like Anthony Bourdain went to.

• 22:25Rayna Greenberg?

  These Hawker centers, some of these people have been making one dish for 30 years, 40 years. They have perfected it. That chicken and rice place is so famous and like. People have just made one thing. It's nice to be like recognized by the Michelin guide is like crazy.

• 22:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 22:37Rayna Greenberg?

  So I'm glad you loved it.

• 22:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, well, let's talk about our partners and we will get into it with our guest today. I am telling you guys about Hungry Root. I love this so, so much. You've heard us talk about it, so you know how much we love it. It just simplifies your life. If you're busy, whatever you have going on, if you work a lot, if you're a parent, if you're just not wanting to spend a bunch of time grocery shopping and meal planning and cooking. This is going to be a game changer and you can reach your health goals, reduce your stress, do all your weekly meal planning with Hungry Root. So Hungry Root, the food, first of all, is the highest quality. They hold all their foods to the highest standards. They have organic produce. The meat and seafood is so good. No hormones or antibiotics and all these trusted, healthy brands.

• 23:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  And the variety is great, too. There are over 50,000 chef crafted recipes to choose from each week with many ready in just 15 minutes or less. So you are just going to get your food delivered and all the ingredients you need to make these meals and recipes. So you can really do it all. Again, you can have these meal kits, but you can also have all of your snacks and your produce and your breads and your meats and everything. They make it incredibly easy to get going and actually stick with any health goals that you have. I love it. I love to make the tacos. I've made some really good chicken tacos. There is a really good salad I had recently with that green goddess dressing that was so delicious. And pastas, the pasta is really good. I'm pretty picky about pasta, but the quality is great, too.

• 24:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  And it really just cuts out a lot of the stuff I don't want to do, which is like going to the grocery store and doing all that stuff, too. So you guys are going to love Hungry Root as much as we do. For a limited time, get 40% off your first box plus get a free item in every box for life. Go to hungryroot.com/gge and use code GGE. That's hungryroot.com/gge, code GGE to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life.

• 24:23Rayna Greenberg?

  And my favorite bras and underwear, Skims. I mean, it's the only bras I wear. Listen, we've gotten sent some bras recently from other companies. I'm like, this really is all I want. The quality is unbelievable. There is so much to choose from. So my every single day bra is the Skims Fits Everybody T-shirt Bra. I have it in every single color. I can't believe how many shades they have. So I have Onyx Black, I have White, I have Nude, I have like a cocoa brown shade. I sleep in it because I love an underwire bra, but it fits perfectly under every single item of clothing. It's not like bulky or flimsy. I like that the straps are really thin. And if you're looking for a postpartum bra also, my sister-in-law, when she had the baby, was asking me about what bras I suggest. And I was like, you gotta get Skims. Like, I love the way that they feel. And again,

• 25:05Rayna Greenberg?

  not too bulky, not too flimsy, lots to choose from. The price point is also great. They have tons of matching underwear as well. I wear the briefs around and I like the lightweight cotton ruched back hipsters they have as well. Tons of colors, tons of sizes. The quality is great. It's a great gift for anybody in your life. I wear their pajamas every day, but maybe there's like a new mommy in your life and you want to buy her some bras.

• 25:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm a mommy.

• 25:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'll bring it back.

• 25:30Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I miss it.

• 25:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Never let it die.

• 25:32Rayna Greenberg?

  Maybe there's a new mom in your life, or you just need a gift for somebody else or yourself. Maybe you got a boob job like me. You can shop our favorite bras and underwear at skims.com. And after you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows.

• 25:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, let's get into it.

• 25:46Rayna Greenberg?

  All right, guys, we are very excited to welcome our guest today. She is dubbed America's number one sex professor and one of the most popular lecturers at the University of Washington. She translates cutting-edge research and data into a modern guide to pleasure, intimacy, and connection. Her course, The Diversity of Human Sexuality, attracts more than 4,000 students each year, making it one of the largest public human sexuality classes in the country. Her new book, You Could Be Having Better Sex, is out now. Please welcome to the show Dr. Nicole McNichols.

• 26:15Speaker 00

  Hi, I am so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

• 26:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  We're so excited to have you. I just think about how much I would have loved that class in college. I mean, who knows? I was just having a lot of sex.

• 26:28Rayna Greenberg?

  All the sex and none of it was good.

• 26:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  A lot of sex I didn't remember.

• 26:32Speaker 00

  I would have loved to have helped you have better sex. Trust me, that would have been.

• 26:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  You, I mean, we're so excited to talk to you today because obviously your expertise, but you really have your finger on the pulse of these kids.

• 26:42Speaker 00

  I do, for better, for worse.

• 26:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Is your class like waitlisted and it's like a thing?

• 26:50Speaker 00

  It is, yeah, which is always so surprising. I mean, it is sex. It is sex. Like, I'd have to be doing a pretty bad job for it to not be popular, right?

• 27:00Rayna Greenberg?

  You give her some more credit than that.

• 27:02Speaker 00

  But yeah, it's 1,200 students a quarter, so close to 4,000 a year.

• 27:07Rayna Greenberg?

  What kind of room do you do this in?

• 27:08Speaker 00

  So there's a lecture hall.

• 27:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Arena?

• 27:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. I wish. It's, yeah, so it has about 700 live in person and then there's another 500 that stream online.

• 27:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, my God.

• 27:21Speaker 00

  So, yeah, and we just kind of started opening up the enrollment during COVID when we all went online. And then as the university developed the technology to be able to stream and have sort of Zoom to work with it, it kind of worked out. But, yeah, so it's, it's such a delight. I love my students so much.

• 27:37Rayna Greenberg?

  You're like the Taylor Swift of college professors.

• 27:39Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh, stop.

• 27:40Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, selling out the theater. There's a way less, people are like putting the tickets to your stop, on Ticketmaster.

• 27:48Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh.

• 27:49Rayna Greenberg?

  So I have to tell you something that made me laugh in the book. So you've been teaching this course for 14 years?

• 27:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, and you said, I hate to break it to you, I'm not like a dominatrix with an OnlyFans. I don't come in with like whips and chains. I mean, you're just like a nice, smart lady who's married for 20 years.

• 28:04Speaker 00

  I really am, exactly. Yeah, I've been married, very happily married, in a monogamous relationship for 22 years. And I have three children and, as I say, two needy pets. I have two dogs. At the same time, though, I have learned so much about different forms of sexual expression, different types of sexual interests, different types of, you know, I have a dominatrix who comes into my class and whips me every quarter.

• 28:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Really?

• 28:32Speaker 00

  I do, I really do. I have a whole panel of polyamorous guests that come in. And, you know, there are reasons that I have these people and I just want my students to understand that there's so many different ways we can experience our sexuality. And even if it's not for us, right? Like, take something like kink. Maybe we don't all want to be going to a dungeon. We can learn about things like consent and being able to talk about what you want. In the beginning and even thinking about how something like erotic power exchange ties into every sexual experience. So it's just something where we have a lot of fun and there's so much shame and stigma around this topic that it's just really nice to be able to teach them in a way that's sex positive and accepting, but also telling them that you don't have to be wild or

• 29:16Speaker 00

  become a whole different person to be able to enjoy great, great sex.

• 29:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Right. It's not this giant jump from one thing to the next.

• 29:23Speaker 00

  No, it doesn't need to be overwhelming.

• 29:25Rayna Greenberg?

  I have a question for you. We were talking about this, you know, Ashley and I were in college a long time ago and I, I took.

• 29:29Speaker 00

  Speak for yourself.

• 29:30Rayna Greenberg?

  I took one class. Actually, she's still in college. Yeah, but you've been doing this for 15 years and I think about the sex that I had 15 years ago. And I don't know that I even knew that like really sex was for my pleasure. In my twenties, I don't remember being like, obviously the purpose of this is for me to have an orgasm as well, you know?

• 29:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:46Rayna Greenberg?

  That's an orgasm. I didn't know like which position to get in to have an orgasm. And I didn't even know that was like necessarily a part of that. I mean, I knew I could give myself an orgasm, but I'm curious like how you see the students evolving in 15 years. Like, are the questions really different from your students?

• 30:00Speaker 00

  The questions are definitely very different, but what's interesting is, I mean, that's such a good point, Raina, because I see sort of this paradox, right? On the one hand, there's more sex positivity. And so there's more of a sort of understanding among my female students that they deserve pleasure, right? However, there is still sort of this sexual double standard that absolutely exists where most of them report that they, you know, are mostly having hookups where their partner, at least in the context of straight relationships, is having an orgasm and they're not. But there is a little bit more sort of acceptance and less judgment around that. But at the same time, we have a generation for the first time where they're mostly learning about sex from porn, right? And it's not that porn for, you know,

• 30:46Speaker 00

  among adults is always necessarily a terrible thing. Like, there's absolutely a healthy way to watch porn, but for many of them where they're actually learning about pleasure and bodies and sex from this really unrealistic idea about what sex looks like. It's presenting this very performative idea of sex. They're coming to the class. And they're scared, right? They're sort of buying into this idea that sex has to be wild and performative and crazy and rough to be hot. And so you sort of have this like weird thing going on where fewer of them are having sex than our generation did in college, right? Except for you, because you just graduated.

• 31:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm Gen Z, obviously.

• 31:31Speaker 00

  But, you know, many of them, they're not having as much sex, but the ones who are, when the sex that they are having is really kinky and rough and performative. And so it's not that pleasurable, right? And so I really feel like a lot of what we talk about is how do you make sex feel more pleasurable and also just more authentic and connected and real?

• 31:49Rayna Greenberg?

  I never thought about that. I guess I didn't know sex was for my pleasure, but no one was making me hang from the rafters, spit in my mouth, choke me. I didn't have to think about all those things.

• 31:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Learning about sex from porn is scary and I don't know that you ever unlearn it like that. I mean, our entree to sex was Cosmo Magazine and Sex in the City and Dawson's Creek.

• 32:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  The teacher student stuff, but like really Sex in the City. And again, like the magazines that we had, we didn't have podcasts and I never watched porn. I don't, I think we jokingly watched Debbie Does Dallas when I was like in my twenties. Like I wasn't watching porn and I'm probably on the farther end of the spectrum of lesser porn experience, but to learn about it that way.

• 32:29Speaker 00

  Exactly. I mean, I grew up, you know, before the internet, obviously in school, we had some sex out. It was terrible. But I mean, at least like there were magazines like Cosmo and, you know, things out there where I could at least read in a magazine or, you know, find books in the library even. But I mean, at the same time, I do remember stumbling upon with some friends, you know, her dad's porn stash and watching a video of porn when I was in like fourth grade.

• 32:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Are you serious?

• 32:59Speaker 00

  And it was really scary. Yeah, it was really, really scary. And when I think about the fact that kids now can just go online and just access that any time of day so easily, no problems. I mean, I think that that's making them, I mean, I know it would make me scared of sex and I think for a lot of them it's just. Making it feel really intimidating.

• 33:18Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, I, yeah, I really validate that that's just, it's, it's a whole other window to walk into that I never had to worry about back then, honestly.

• 33:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Totally. And that parents have to worry about.

• 33:27Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 33:28Rayna Greenberg?

  How old are your children?

• 33:29Speaker 00

  My kids are 11, 16, and 18.

• 33:32Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, okay. So they've seen porn?

• 33:34Speaker 00

  I'm guessing, yes.

• 33:38Rayna Greenberg?

  I didn't expect you to say teenagers.

• 33:39Speaker 00

  I'm guessing, yes.

• 33:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 33:41Speaker 00

  I mean, I've, you know, tried to get it out of them. They won't share its specifics, but, you know, we've had the conversation about how porn isn't real.

• 33:49Rayna Greenberg?

  That's not real.

• 33:49Speaker 00

  You know, here's good, healthy sex education. But here's the thing, you guys, is like, even if, you know, many of my students who will say, no, we know, it's not real, it's not real, at a cognitive level, you're seeing those images.

• 34:01Rayna Greenberg?

  You've still digested this.

• 34:02Speaker 00

  You're still digesting it. It's still imprinting upon you at a young, sort of innocent age, what these ideas look like. And so no matter what, our brains are just wired when we're doing an activity to think about, well, what am I supposed to be doing right now? What is the standard? And if that's a real, if porn is a really vivid image that's just been imprinted upon your brain, no wonder you're gonna have a lot of anxiety and insecurity and fear around it, right?

• 34:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, even if you know it's not real, if you've seen it three, four, or five times, and that's your only touch point to it, how could you not think it's supposed to be exactly like that?

• 34:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's what I'm saying, you can't unsee it. It's different than like, playing Call of Duty and knowing that's not real, or watching, you know, an action movie with a bunch of violence and knowing that's not real, you can't go out and do that. There's something different about sex, like, I don't think you can not process it to think about it when you're then having sex.

• 34:51Speaker 00

  Exactly. It's also really different than reading about it, like erotica.

• 34:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Totally.

• 34:55Speaker 00

  I do remember finding my mom's spicy erotica books, and

• 35:00Rayna Greenberg?

  That's how this all started.

• 35:00Speaker 00

  Those were not as traumatic, you know? I mean, first of all, I was a little bit older, and I was like, oh, okay, this is kind of spicy, and, you know.

• 35:07Rayna Greenberg?

  And you're visualizing it.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  And you're visualizing it, you, in a sense, you almost have more consent because it's happening in your own brain, right?

• 35:14Rayna Greenberg?

  I used to like that when I was younger. I used to like reading porn, and straight porn scared me. I used to just pretty much focus on lesbian porn, which we've talked about on the show.

• 35:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, men are scary.

• 35:21Rayna Greenberg?

  It felt less violent.

• 35:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, straight women are a huge, huge consumer of lesbian porn, and

• 35:27Rayna Greenberg?

  And now gay porn.

• 35:28Speaker 00

  And now gay porn.

• 35:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Male gay porn.

• 35:30Speaker 00

  Hello, heated rivalry.

• 35:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes, exactly. That's what I'm saying.

• 35:33Speaker 00

  I mean, circle of trust, I will even admit myself, I've had so much more sex since heated rivalry came out.

• 35:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, my God. Did your husband watch it?

• 35:42Speaker 00

  Oh, hell no, but I did.

• 35:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, really? Because she ended you in the porn area. It revs you up. It's nice.

• 35:47Speaker 00

  It revs you up, right?

• 35:48Rayna Greenberg?

  I always felt like straight porn was not a representation of what I wanted in the bedroom. First of all, it's so long. It's so much pounding.

• 35:56Speaker 00

  It's just like jackhammering away.

• 35:59Rayna Greenberg?

  It looks painful.

• 35:59Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 36:00Rayna Greenberg?

  It looks so violent to me. It just wasn't representative of what I wanted. And even before I realized I was attracted to women, I was attracted to lesbian porn.

• 36:08Speaker 00

  Right.

• 36:09Rayna Greenberg?

  It just looked pleasurable.

• 36:10Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, and I mean, 18% of women, right, can have an orgasm from penetrative sex, but the rest need some kind of clitoral stimulation. So when you're looking at mainstream porn, it's rough. It's creating this idea that women want to be pushed up against the wall and want to be, you know, just taken, you know, have no consent in the matter. But it's also just like glamorizing a type of sex that's not that pleasurable for women, right?

• 36:38Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, the immediate penetration, I'll never get over it. Even there was a scene in Sinners, which I love Sinners. Thank God they won all the awards. It just, he was in. They start kissing, he was in. I mean, you physically can't come in.

• 36:49Speaker 00

  No.

• 36:50Rayna Greenberg?

  This were too dry. Like, that is still, to this day, there's this scene we always talk about from Tell Me Lies, and Raina was like, I thought it was hot. I was like, I could feel it in my own pussy.

• 36:58Speaker 00

  Right, yes.

• 36:59Rayna Greenberg?

  I felt the pain of like an unlubricated just vagina slam right in there.

• 37:03Speaker 00

  Ouch, just ouch, watching that, right?

• 37:06Rayna Greenberg?

  And maybe you've been in the cab, getting all wet on the way home, and you're already lubricated. I'm saying there are times when you're already turned on.

• 37:12Speaker 00

  Yes, but you're kind of already been making out at that point, right?

• 37:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Exactly. When it is just immediate penetration. No, it's fair that we're making out, pants are down, penis is in.

• 37:19Speaker 00

  Exactly, exactly. And that's why lesbian porn can be so nice to watch. I mean, yes, if you're a lesbian, but also no matter who you are, because it's more gentle, it tends to be, you know, showing more types of behaviors that are pleasurable, actually pleasurable for a woman. I mean, it's, yeah.

• 37:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, we, okay, first of all, your book is phenomenal, and I've loved it. There's so much great information in there about the science of pleasure. And so we thought what we'd focus on today is your self-pleasure and discovering what you want. We'll talk about casual hookups, and then we will talk- A lot about long term relationships, but maybe we start with just like discovering what is pleasurable to you, how to ask for those things and how that could evolve.

• 37:57Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 37:58Rayna Greenberg?

  I wonder how, do you want to start with your hierarchy of sexual needs?

• 38:01Speaker 00

  It's such a good place to start, Raina, because I think so many people want to be having better sex, but they don't really know where to start, right? Like, how do you kind of look at all of this? Because the options seem limitless, and they are, but where, how do you even figure out where to begin? And so I kind of come at it from this perspective that before you even become intimate with a partner, you need to kind of do your homework of, first of all, understanding your own body, understanding your own types of touch and erotic sort of sensations that feel good to you. And this is where, you know, I'm very nerdy because I like looking at research studies, not just, you know, interview, I mean, look, interviewing people who I know is also fun,

• 38:45Speaker 00

  and I have a lot of insight from girlfriends, but really, when we look at studies, for example, you know, the Kinsey Institute, University of Indiana, looking at sort of this study of thousands of women and actually asking them, how do you touch yourself? Like, what are the exact types of touch and technique that lead you to have an orgasm, right? And so sort of understanding your body masturbating, getting a sex toy, figuring out what feels good to you, accessing your fantasies, but also coming at it from this perspective that you have to kind of turn yourself on before you're going to be able to get turned on with a partner. And what I mean by that is, at the base of my level is understanding your physical needs,

• 39:27Speaker 00

  but also your cognitive needs and understanding how things like stress, exhaustion, all of these things that are going to get in the way of your pleasure cycle, right? Because pleasure is not something we just experience in the moment. It's something that we have to understand there's sort of a wanting, liking and learning stage to. And so if we can unpack, you know, all of these different mental things that can block us from being able to show up in an experience and become present, that that's going to just put us in a place. Where we're better able to, you know, show up and, and actually enjoy sex with a partner. And so then we go into sort of this middle layer of the pyramid, which is about communicating with a partner,

• 40:07Speaker 00

  about getting into my consent manifesto, about being able to work with a long-term partner, to maintain passion in a long-term relationship. And then we get to the tippy top, where maybe you want to experiment with something a little bit naughty, or something that's a little bit pushing a comfort zone, or at least, at the very least unlocking your fantasies and knowing what those can sort of suggest about novelty that you can try. So I just tried to provide this framework with that hierarchy, where it's a little bit like a blueprint for here's where to start. Start with yourself, then connecting with a partner and figuring out, where is my creativity and curiosity taking me so that I'm having better sex now,

• 40:47Speaker 00

  but that I can continue to evolve and have better sex throughout my lifetime as my own sexual needs and desires evolve.

• 40:54Rayna Greenberg?

  I love that. And that's great. And I love that you start with you and that's the basis of understanding what you like. And I'm always surprised with the people that tell me that they don't really masturbate, but they have a ton of sex. And I have a couple girlfriends in particular that I think of as very sexual with their partners. But they both have told me, like, I don't really masturbate ever. And I find that so interesting that people don't really start with their own bodies and know what they like. And listen, I'm sure my friends know what they like. I'm sure they're doing great. But I just, I want to validate, it's pretty normal to like not necessarily touch yourself all the time, masturbate, know what you like. And I started that stuff as a little kid, but not everybody.

• 41:27Speaker 00

  Absolutely. No, oh my gosh, completely. And I mean, that's the thing is that with all of this, there's no should, right? I mean, if masturbating feels good and it brings a sense of pleasure, enjoy it, right? I mean, if for the most part, you know, when we look at couples where they're masturbating, they're certainly not having less sex than people who are not masturbating. You know, we get into a little bit of a gray zone when we're looking at really compulsive porn use and masturbation in that context. But for the most part, when people are masturbating and just doing it as a form of self-care, right? That can feel really good and it can teach you about what you want. But if you're having great sex with a partner and you're enjoying

• 42:09Speaker 00

  And you're not spending a lot of time masturbating. Absolutely. That is also a very normal, healthy pattern to be falling into. It's just that there's no shame if you decide that you

• 42:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 42:19Speaker 00

  do want to try it.

• 42:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, how many orgasms do you need a week? Then you gotta figure, you know,

• 42:23Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 42:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Your partner's giving you a month, whatever it may be. I just think, obviously, the most important place is to start with yourself. Like, there is no world in which, just once I find the partner, he'll know what to do.

• 42:35Speaker 00

  Right.

• 42:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know, like, the right guy will know my body somehow, but magically, you know, and know how to please me. Like, how would they ever?

• 42:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I think you just really hit the nail on the head, because that's kind of like, the biggest myth that gets in people's way.

• 42:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 42:50Speaker 00

  Is this idea that you don't have to talk about it, that it should just happen, that chemistry is instant.

• 42:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, the chemistry.

• 42:55Speaker 00

  It's either there, it's not. And it's, that's just not true.

• 42:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 42:59Speaker 00

  I mean, first of all, a lot of what we're sort of categorizing as chemistry is anxiety and uncertainty that's happening early in a relationship, right? I mean, the reality is that even if you look for, particularly for women, a lot of times, it's, once you develop a better understanding of each other's bodies, and you have that sense of safety and trust, when you can really let go and communicate, the great sex starts to happen. A lot of times, early on in a relationship, you have that desire and that excitement, but the orgasms may not be coming as quickly as they are, once you get to know each other, right? So it's really about that, like, yes, sense of attraction, but also

• 43:42Speaker 00

  communication, and willingness to understand that there is so much diversity in the types of touch and positions and atmospheres that people like in the sex that they're having.

• 43:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mm hmm. So, we will talk about libido fluctuating in long-term relationships, but just overall, how normal is it for people's libidos and their desires and what they want, what they're looking for, to like, really fluctuate and change over time?

• 44:03Speaker 00

  Oh, it's so incredibly normal, right? I mean, there's just no way that everyone is going to be able to have this super high level of libido all the time. I mean, maybe some people, but for the vast majority of people, it's going to ebb. And flow. And even if it's true that one partner is always going to have a high level of libido, usually there's going to be at least one person in the relationship where there's highs and lows. And it's about, you know, understanding, look, life gets in the way. And especially for people who are entering times in their life when there's a lot of career stress, right? Particularly for women in middle age where you have sort of all the pressures of starting a family

• 44:47Speaker 00

  and a job and remembering everybody's dentist appointment and the emotional labor and the reality that even as we are advancing in our careers and education, women are still doing a greater proportion of all the household labor. So there can just be so much exhaustion put on people's plates, particularly women. And that is absolutely going to lead to maybe some resentment that absolutely need to be addressed. You know, I label those as, you know, hidden culprits that might be kind of getting in the way of your sex life. But also just looking at sort of this idea that you might be going through something, you might be sick, your kids might be going through something, and it's totally normal during those phases to like not be totally turned on all the time. And that's okay.

• 45:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  And it doesn't mean it's over forever. Like, I think we get in this like this is the new normal.

• 45:36Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 45:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like whatever it may be, having kids, if it's perimenopause or you're like, this is it. My libido's gone, I'll never get it back, which is obviously so untrue. You hear about women having great sex in their 50s, 60s, 70s, even the best sex of their life even sometimes. And so I think it's important to remember you can always get it back.

• 45:52Speaker 00

  You can. And I'll even speak on a personal note because like we talked about and Raina pointed out at the beginning, people often assume that, you know, I must be having sex every day because I'm a sex professor. But no, I mean, my desire ebbs and flows, right? I mean, there are weeks when I'll have it numerous times and, you know, I'm feeling healthy and good and energetic and well rested. And then there are times when I'll just be exhausted or going through something and I might not have sex at all for a week, right? Or it might even go two weeks. So it's, it's not, you know, the end of the world because my husband and I always know it will come back, we'll get back on track, right? As long as we keep talking about it. About it, right? As long as we keep communicating about it, there's really nothing to be worried about.

• 46:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I love that. I love just like acknowledging that all these things change what you desire and how much you desire it. Because I think there so much about sex is what is wrong with me?

• 46:42Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 46:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  Why don't I want this thing? Why do I suddenly want this thing? You know, it's so much evolving of like, why am I attracted to this? Why am I not attracted to this?

• 46:50Speaker 00

  Yes, and so many women going through that. And then the other thing that, you know, if anyone listening to this is in this period of perimenopause or menopause, the declining hormones that come with that, right? I mean, thank God, we're at a period where HRT is now recognized as being completely safe. The warning has come off of the label for that. You know, I think that that's something that all women should be exploring who are going through any kind of hormone changes related to menopause. But that can be, you know, something that really gets in the way and, you know, can cause dryness and brain fog and low libido. And for so long, women have been taught just to kind of suck it up. But again, it goes back to this theme of starting with yourself and figuring out what's getting in your way of feeling

• 47:34Speaker 00

  turned on and able to show up sexually in your own life or your own relationship. And then feeling entitled, right? It really requires a level of entitlement to ask for what it is that you need to be able to feel better, more energetic, more well rested, more supported in your life so that you can feel more sexual.

• 47:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  You talk about the importance of sleep in this, and there's this one couple you focus on, and we talked about sleep in the intro and how it's just my number one priority these days. I didn't used to need as much, and now it's just like the number one thing that affects everything. So

• 48:07Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 48:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  And when I don't feel like having sex is when I'm so tired and, you know, the busier I am, the more stressed and the less I want to have sex. And so I just think it seems so obvious, but it's such a big part of it.

• 48:20Speaker 00

  It is.

• 48:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I understand going through those periods of time when you can't get enough sleep, especially when you have new, like, young children.

• 48:26Speaker 00

  It's not sexy advice, like getting sleep.

• 48:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 48:30Speaker 00

  Like, hot sex advice, get a good night's sleep.

• 48:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, and exercise and hydration and all this stuff.

• 48:37Speaker 00

  Hydration is not just your Pussy.

• 48:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly.

• 48:40Speaker 00

  Right, exactly. Drink water. Exactly. Fuel yourself, nurture yourself. Do things that bring you pleasure in other aspects of your life.

• 48:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, absolutely.

• 48:50Speaker 00

  Like, we tend to like denigrate pleasure. I think it's not necessary, that it's a treat. You have to earn it, you know, have your inbox at zero before you get to enjoy things. But pleasure actually fuels us in really important ways. It fills our bucket in ways that leads to ego resilience, more creative thinking, and it has a whole broadening effect. Pleasure and positive emotions, so much research just supporting the importance of those in all aspects of our life. Sexual pleasure, yes. But whether it's connecting with a friend over drinks, or a cup of coffee, or getting a massage, or meditating, or taking a yoga class, or, you know, whatever it is that just feels good to you in that moment,

• 49:32Speaker 00

  that's going to help you come back into your body and feel more uplifted. That's going to be really helpful, not only to your well-being, but also to your libido.

• 49:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  So, we want to talk about casual sex today, and then we'll end on like long-term couples, and we have a lot of different topics to discuss there. But we're just going to take a quick break, and then we will get right back into it. Okay, so you know how we feel about gut health. It affects your whole system. Your gut houses about 80% of your immune system, and it can be tough to feel your best when your gut feels out of balance. We talk about this all the time, the gut-to-brain connection. How, when your gut feels out of balance, you could even feel depressed, or just totally off, and how digestive health is often overlooked, even for the most health-conscious. So, Chlorophyll is responsible for how plants harness the power of the sun. Now you can enjoy a gentle but powerful daily detox with Chlorophyll Stick Packs from Nature's Sunshine. We love this. I am so big on Chlorophyll.

• 50:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  They're a convenient, on-the-go way to support your gut health. It's just going to be a gentle, daily detox to help your body feel light and balanced. We love that. Super easy to mix, and it comes in refreshing flavors like lime, apple, or melon. I really love the lime. Any flavor, if it's a lemon and lime, that's usually what I gravitate towards, but I really do like them all. You can take this when you feel bloated, sluggish, or out of balance. Super easy to include in your day. So you are just going to... Put it in your water. That's what I do. You're just gonna tear, pour, stir, and sip. You can take it easy with you on the go. I like it with ice cold water. It's just gonna be a quick, clean, hydrating boost. The flavors are great. Again, they're crisp. They're not overly sweet. I hate stuff that feels like too overly sweet or artificial, and it makes your plain water taste like something you actually are gonna look forward to. So, freshens you from the inside out, naturally neutralizes odors and

• 51:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  supports your body, aids detox and digestion, helps your body eliminate toxins while supporting gut balance, like we mentioned, and provides antioxidant support as well, helps fight free radicals and promotes cellular health. All these things, really everything you need to feel your best. There are no sugars, artificial sweeteners, colors, or fillers, and backed by decades of herbal expertise and Chlorophyll's long wellness history, over 16,000 5-star reviews. Nature Sunshine is a long-running company. They've been around for decades, and they've really been always creating really high-quality products. So, you can get a daily detox with Chlorophyll stick packs. Nature Sunshine is offering 20% off your first order, plus free shipping. Go to naturessunshine.com and use the code GGE at checkout. That's code GGE at naturessunshine.com.

• 51:51Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, and another thing that is good for your body, treats you well, is Spark. So, it is so important to me to feel energized and to feel focused. We travel so much, we're always on planes, and really wanna like come do the podcast, feel really, really sharp, and like I'm mentally there for everything. So, when it comes to Spark, it gives you energy and mental sharpness without the trade-offs. Spark Energy and Focus is your go-to pre-workout ritual. When you need reliable energy to power through life, a ride, a run, a class, you would just mix it, sip it, and you get dialed in and ready to go. The taste is great. It's refreshing. It's bold. It's vibrant. And I really like it sort of in that mid-afternoon crash time as well, when I just need to like wake up, get up and go, and like keep it moving throughout the day, and stay more focused, productive, and present. So, what

• 52:36Rayna Greenberg?

  stands out about it to me, there is zero grams of sugar. There's 120mg of caffeine for a little bit of alertness and concentration. There's amino acids. It includes coline to support performance, mental focus, and clarity. It helps support energy metabolism on active days. There's vitamin B in there as well, vitamin C, A, and E. And Spark Energy and Focus is made by a trusted brand that has delivered real energy for 32 years. I just love the bold flavors. I really do look forward to drinking it. And we have an offer for you guys. Spark Energy and Focus is offering 30% off and free shipping. Go to drinkspark.com and use the code GGE at checkout. That's code GGE at drinkspark.com.

• 53:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. You talk about sexual mindfulness, I believe, and just making space for eroticism in your brain, essentially. And so I just wanted to touch on that. And that will also play into later when we talk about responsive or spontaneous desire. But just, I like this sexual mindfulness. I haven't really heard that term before.

• 53:38Speaker 00

  Exactly. Yes. No, sexual mindfulness, so much data behind this by Dr. Lori Brado. She has done so many studies just showing, you know, if we look at what happens at a neurological level during sex, in order to be able to have an orgasm, we need to be able to turn off all of those parts of our brain that are responsible for thinking, judging, comparing. And yet, we have such a tendency to turn those parts of our brain on during sex, particularly women, right? Whether it's, you know, oh, my gosh, did I take the garbage out today? Is the coffee maker still on? Is that the cat puking on the rug?

• 54:18Speaker 00

  Right? To body image issues, which are such a huge issue for so many women, especially today. All of those things, yeah, can just be going through your head, turning on that prefrontal cortex that's happening that is not supposed to be running at full capacity while you're having sex. Unless it's being used to think about sexual fantasy, that can be helpful.

• 54:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, great. Yeah, that will allow it.

• 54:40Speaker 00

  Exactly. Then it's permitted. But no, sexual mindfulness is like any other form of mindfulness, really, where you're noticing those distracting thoughts. And you're not trying to fight them, but you're just sort of seeing them pass into your conscious awareness, seeing them and like allowing them to pass through and really bringing your awareness back to the sensations in your body, back to your breath, right? If your nervous system isn't synced during sex, you're not going to be able to experience pleasure, right? And the trick to calming your nervous system and bringing it, regulating it and syncing it with that of your partner's

• 55:20Speaker 00

  is to be focused on the responses and feelings and touch in your own body and to be really focused in. On the sexual cues emanating from your partner and allowing those to be your guy during sex. As opposed to whatever that porn is that's running through your head or those comparisons that are so tempting to make that can really make you feel insecure and not present in your own body.

• 55:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Absolutely. When I think about the times I've felt the least sexual, it's when I don't feel like attractive. And I'm in my head about my body and the way I'm gonna look on top of somebody and your partner, we've heard this time and time again from people, your partner doesn't notice, they don't care. They think you're beautiful, they think you're sexy. But really, like when I have felt the worst about myself is when I feel the least sexual. And it's hard to get out of your head. And so I think even earlier, what you said, like do things like get a massage or if that's obviously cost, where you have to spend time with friends, spend time with people that make you feel good about yourself.

• 56:16Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 56:17Rayna Greenberg?

  And really like that will allow you to feel better about your body and be more present.

• 56:21Speaker 00

  Also, there's so much new research coming out that non-sexual affectionate touch can be really healing when it comes to body image issues, right? And this means cuddling with your partner, right? And when they're reaching out to you, right, they're caressing you in a way that's, that feels good, isn't

• 56:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Smacks on the butt?

• 56:41Speaker 00

  No, not the, right, not the smacks on the butt.

• 56:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, sorry, that was just me.

• 56:44Speaker 00

  Unless you like it. No, if you like it, that's amazing.

• 56:50Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I mean, I like, I like, wait, around the house and stuff.

• 56:54Speaker 00

  Smack that ass, exactly.

• 56:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Ashley's like, I like that. Ashley's like, I like when he hits me. No, like a little, little, don't we all love that?

• 57:03Speaker 00

  A little tap on the tush.

• 57:04Rayna Greenberg?

  I thought, I thought you meant like just, you know, like, you know, pat. No, I mean, if I walk by my man and he doesn't hit my butt, I'm like, am I, are you mad at me?

• 57:13Speaker 00

  I love that. So I'm into the hug from behind, right? Like the embrace from behind for me, cause I'm sort of a full body, like smoosh me. I just wanna be smooshed.

• 57:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Pick me up and carry me around. I want somebody on top of me at all times.

• 57:26Speaker 00

  At all times, like massive skin to skin contact.

• 57:29Rayna Greenberg?

  I just, I want to be touched always. No, I literally would be like, can you pick me up? I'm 5'10" and carry me around. Like, why is this?

• 57:37Speaker 00

  Exactly. And when you think about it, it makes sense because it's almost like at an unconscious level, our partner is saying, I like your body.

• 57:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love your body.

• 57:47Speaker 00

  I want to touch your body. And you know, it's, sometimes our brains don't want to hear the message of, oh, you look beautiful today. And we're instantly going to dismiss that, right? But if at this unconscious level, we're feeling our partner's body want our body, there's something really powerful about that. So yeah, I think if you're trying to help a partner with low body image issues, that's probably the number one thing you can do is just engage in that kind of affection.

• 58:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love it. Yeah, and you hear that from people, like, he doesn't touch me, or, you know, the only time we do touch is when we're having sex. And it's just sad. It's kind of bleak to think about that.

• 58:22Speaker 00

  It is. And then people start to kind of bristle, right? When their partner touches them. Because if the only time you're touching each other is when you're having sex, it almost starts to feel transactional.

• 58:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, it's like you want something. That's why you're being affectionate with me.

• 58:34Speaker 00

  Exactly, yeah.

• 58:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I do understand probably there's people that get into these cycles of like, you never touch me, I'd like you to touch me more, you know? And I understand feeling like a little hostile and upset if that's the only time that you're getting touched.

• 58:45Speaker 00

  Exactly. I mean, that's why if, you know, when I tell couples, you know, what's, you know, one thing you can do tonight? Well, come home, give each other a 20 second hug, right?

• 58:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, I love a hug.

• 58:56Speaker 00

  Gottman research proves.

• 58:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  From your husband, you like a hug. Sorry, I only hug, yes. I have one person I like hugging.

• 59:02Speaker 00

  But the hug from the, from the partner, I love a good husband hug.

• 59:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, I think you should hug when you get him from work.

• 59:08Speaker 00

  You should.

• 59:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  If we're not hugging and kissing when we see each other after the day, I mean, if you both work from home, then, you know, more power to you, like, you're stronger than than we are. But, you know, if, when he comes home, I want to touch.

• 59:20Speaker 00

  Right, exactly. And we hear like, okay, you know, everybody has heard the advice, play on sex, play on sex. Yes, but if you're not touching each other, and all of a sudden it's 8:00 PM on Tuesday night, and you're unloading the dishwasher, and you have an appointment to get in bed and have sex with your partner, nobody is going to want to do that.

• 59:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  We haven't let up to it. Foreplay is not just touch and intimacy. Like, it's what you're doing before in your brain, like, if you're, if you're just stressed all day and you're supposed to get right into it.

• 59:48Speaker 00

  You have to kind of have foreplay with yourself.

• 59:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  If you go right from a meeting to in the bed with your partner, how the hell? Like you need, there's a buffer. I guess that's what I'm trying to say.

• 59:59Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:00:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not necessarily foreplay, but some sort of buffer where you wind down.

• 1:00:04Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:00:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Turn yourself onshore, but just get the day out of your head.

• 1:00:10Speaker 00

  Exactly. And you need to give yourself that transition space.

• 1:00:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 1:00:15Speaker 00

  Because it's so easy, you know, think about it, like if we're not feeling attracted to our partner, sometimes our, the immediate place our brain goes to is why am I not attracted to them anymore? And sometimes it's not about something happening at the relationship level. It's more that you're not giving yourself that transition period. You're not giving that space to drop back into your body at the end of a hard day. And so, yeah, coming home and having that 20 second hug or the seven second kiss is something that you're normalizing this kind of non-sexual physical touch. And you are starting that process of coming back into your body and being present in a calmer state around your partner.

• 1:00:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. So let's talk about scheduling and I like that you say, use the language, planning, which feels different than scheduling to me.

• 1:01:06Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:01:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I think that's like a reframing too of scheduling is giving calendar invite. And planning is giving, just holding the space on Sundays for our sexy time. We draw a bath, whatever you guys got going on.

• 1:01:19Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:01:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  But I kind of like the reframing because I think there is this, which this could be what some couples do, but this, this myth or this image of it's on the calendar, which it can be.

• 1:01:28Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:01:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  But it doesn't have to be.

• 1:01:30Speaker 00

  It doesn't, yeah, it can be done in a romantic way.

• 1:01:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 1:01:34Speaker 00

  Yeah. And that's the thing is, I mean, one of the biggest myths that I think really holds couples back is the myth that sex is always going to be just spontaneous. And it's going to just fall from the sky and be amazing. And if it doesn't, then.

• 1:01:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Something's wrong.

• 1:01:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, something's wrong. Exactly. And the reality is that great sex in relationships, it's intentional. It is planned. There is effort put into it. Right? And so it involves, yes, getting your. Back into your body through that transitional state that we talked about. But then it also means, yes, saying, let's put intimacy on the calendar. And I like the word intimacy, just because to me, it feels more comprehensive than just the physical act of sex.

• 1:02:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 1:02:19Speaker 00

  Right? Because sex is great when there's that emotional connection. So you have to say, like, how am I going to feel connected to you beforehand? So that that can help us to kind of get into this place where we are desiring having sex. And that might mean being on the couch at the same time and cuddling. It might mean having a conversation about what's going on in each other's days and worlds and how you're feeling. And what's making you feel anxious or happy or turned on, you know, what are sort of the big things that are occupying your mental space those days? Because when we have conversations about those things, we feel seen and valued and heard in our relationship.

• 1:03:04Speaker 00

  And that is a turn on, right?

• 1:03:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 1:03:06Speaker 00

  That is a turn on.

• 1:03:07Rayna Greenberg?

  I just love that you framed it as scheduling intimacy. And I think our audience has been really open to this. We asked people how they felt about scheduling sex and our audience was really open to it. And I think that when you remove the like, this is another line item on my calendar, like a meeting, it feels a little different, like, let's schedule some intimacy together later. Let's watch a movie, let's go out to dinner, like planning those things, I think, just takes like the chore out of it.

• 1:03:30Speaker 00

  Yes, it does. And I mean, look, my husband and I love food, we love wine. Again, pleasure advocacy. So that for us really helps, right? Going out to dinner, just the two of us.

• 1:03:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, date night?

• 1:03:42Speaker 00

  Date night, right? It's fantastic. Some couples may not have time for that, budget may not allow. Go for a walk, right? I mean, there's something actually really healing about just going for a walk together. Where, you know, you're beside each other, your blood is pumping through your body, which, you know, can help. And there's, you know, just sort of an attention and awareness that comes that can be really healing. I mean, just doing things, even if If it's just watching a movie together on the couch, just carved out time, it's for the two of you, right, where you can connect is really important and should be part of, yes, scheduling intimacy, but also not having it be such a contract where, of course,

• 1:04:26Rayna Greenberg?

  If you're not feeling it.

• 1:04:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, if you're not feeling it, it's okay to reschedule.

• 1:04:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Right. We'll circle back for next week.

• 1:04:32Speaker 00

  Circle back to the top of your inbox. Kick it to the new year.

• 1:04:35Rayna Greenberg?

  So when you think of couples that have like maintained some pretty good long-term intimacy, is this a thing you see with them a lot? Are there other things you see a lot? It seems like you really acknowledge like, it's not always gonna be like this all the time. We ebb and flow.

• 1:04:47Speaker 00

  Exactly, yes. Couples that have healthy sex lives who report levels of high satisfaction, they are definitely planning it 100%. It's not just spontaneously happening. And there's been really interesting research come out lately that shows that when you interview people, right, most people assume that sex that spontaneously happens, that just falls out of the sky is gonna be hotter than when it's planned. But that when you do these longitudinal studies and couples do plan it, they report that the sex that they had when they planned it is just as hot, just as satisfying, leads to just as many orgasms as when it was spontaneous.

• 1:05:29Speaker 00

  And the reason for that has to do with responsive desire, right? This idea that when you don't have to feel turned on in order to start having sex with your partner, sometimes it's understanding that you might start touching and kissing and connecting and cuddling, and then your body starts to turn on, right? It's like anything else in life where sometimes that feeling of readiness only happens after you've started, right? And so that's okay. So couples who report high levels of sexual satisfaction recognize that and embrace that and don't feel discouraged by that. But then there's interesting research from David Frederick and others

• 1:06:11Speaker 00

  looking at, for example, that they communicate a lot, right? They talk about their turn-ons, right? I always recommend to couples, focus on the positive. Positive, right? Talk about more the things that your partner is doing that feel good, that you want more of, things that you want to try. It's not that we don't want to point out the things that aren't working. Clearly, if something's crossing any kind of a boundary, you want to put an immediate end to it. But like all of us in almost every domain of our lives, we respond better to positive reinforcement. So say what feels good. Say what your fantasies are. Ask questions. I give a whole series of questions in my book, where you know, you can ask things like, what helps you feel in the mood? What's your favorite

• 1:06:55Speaker 00

  way for me to initiate sex? What's the best sex we've ever had, right?

• 1:07:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's a fun combo.

• 1:07:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's a fun place to launch.

• 1:07:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Or even, what's the best sex we had in 2025?

• 1:07:06Speaker 00

  In 2025?

• 1:07:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, do it by the quarter. Like, just recap. I love a recap. I love a frozen form.

• 1:07:11Speaker 00

  I love a good recap. I love a good recap. Exactly. What was quarterly check-in?

• 1:07:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. What was the best sex we had in Q1? I feel like that conversation led to sex too. Anything, we always say that.

• 1:07:24Speaker 00

  Sexual reminiscing?

• 1:07:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Just talk about it. Anything related to your sex life, you'll get the juices flowing.

• 1:07:30Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:07:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  But I love what you write in the book, that intimacy is not counterintuitive to sexual desire, because we've kind of told that they counteract each other. But you write in the book that it's over familiarity and complacency, and intimacy enhances a couple's sex life.

• 1:07:47Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:07:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  But I love the things you mentioned of you need to have curiosity and respect, and all these other things that enhance the relationship, because I like the over familiarity and the complacency being the things that hinder the sexual desire, as opposed to not intimacy, not closeness, not friendship. And you even combat the distance makes the heart grow fonder, distance makes you hornier kind of sentiment as well. Like, I think we've kind of been told, like, you need time apart, and you need to have mystery. And your point is like, not necessarily, like, the closeness and intimacy fosters hot sex.

• 1:08:21Speaker 00

  Exactly. And this is where, when we look at research from the Gottmans, it's so clear. Distance does not make the heart grow fonder. Over familiarity does. Taking each other for granted does, right? And so I think people are really conflating this idea of mystery.

• 1:08:42Speaker 00

  And really what we, you know, what we do want in relationships, which is a sense of evolution, curiosity and personal growth. And what I mean by that is, yes, you should have a sense of respect for each other's autonomy. Right? We tend to feel the most turned on by our partners when they are confident and radiant and in their element, right? And the way to really sort of keep that dimension fresh in your relationship is for both of you to feel like you can focus on the things in your life that bring you a sense of passion, whether that's your career, whether that's your interest in some kind of a cause that

• 1:09:25Speaker 00

  you're dedicated to, whether it's your participation in a community within your kid's school or a book club, whatever it is that's giving you a sense of an ability to be lit up with ideas that are not just the time spent with your partner.

• 1:09:40Rayna Greenberg?

  With your partner, yeah.

• 1:09:41Speaker 00

  Right? But the key here is that you're bringing those new ideas and that novelty back to your relationship. And what happens is that when both of you are growing incrementally a little bit every day, right, or every month, and you're coming back and sharing those new aspects of each other, you're breeding a sort of freshness into your relationship. You're almost coming back together as slightly new evolved people each time, and that is going to keep the spark alive in your relationship.

• 1:10:10Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 1:10:11Speaker 00

  Right?

• 1:10:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Love it. Esther Perel opens her TED Talk and she says, you know, can we desire what we already have?

• 1:10:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:10:17Rayna Greenberg?

  And she talks a lot about what you're talking about, which is that like, it's not monotony with a partner, it's like monotony with your own life almost.

• 1:10:22Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:10:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, you should go out and have interest in hobbies and friends and things that you do outside of the partner, and how sexy is it to look at your partner doing something that they're self-actualized and they're confident?

• 1:10:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:32Rayna Greenberg?

  How much do you want to fuck that person after?

• 1:10:34Speaker 00

  Exactly, exactly.

• 1:10:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I mean, distance can make the heart grow fatter. You go on a trip, you miss your partner, you come back, I think, but it's just like, I think a lot of people use that as this cornerstone of like, you must have so much time apart to be, to keep the spark alive, and that's not true.

• 1:10:49Speaker 00

  I just see so many therapists, though, on social media saying, oh, the problem with partners is they become too enmeshed. I just don't, I mean, that's just not what the research shows us, and that's also just not true. I will tell you from my own life, I have a lot of hot sex, I feel very enmeshed with my partner.

• 1:11:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right, the closeness.

• 1:11:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's that closeness.

• 1:11:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Uh huh.

• 1:11:11Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:11:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Enmeshment, I think, can be digested in different ways.

• 1:11:14Speaker 00

  It can.

• 1:11:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  We both have brothers that are married to women. They're very enmeshed in those relationships with their kids. And I don't think the one thing necessarily leads to the other. But you're growing separately, and that's the thing.

• 1:11:25Speaker 00

  Exactly. And there's always this risk. I think couples do kind of have a little bit of this fear of, well, what if we're just changing so rapidly in different directions that we go spinning off, right? And of course, that can happen. I mean, some couples you hear all the time do grow apart. But the difference there is that they're growing and then not reconnecting and sharing those aspects of each other on a regular basis.

• 1:11:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  That someone feels left behind.

• 1:11:47Speaker 00

  They feel left behind.

• 1:11:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:49Speaker 00

  Exactly. They feel like they're not really being brought along in their partner's journey. Right? But when they are being brought along, right? When they are coming back and sharing all those exciting things happening that they're lit up about, then you are reconnecting. And it's, you know, back to you brought up Esther Perel. You're no longer trying to crave what you already have because this new aspect of your partner is something new that you want, right? It creates that kind of, you know, if we're going to be talking about distance, it creates that distance of here's some new aspect of them that I want to get to know. And I think that's how we kind of keep falling in love with our partners and growing closer. And also, when we're on the receiving end of that, feeling seen and needed and valued, which is really what stirs desire.

• 1:12:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  And you sometimes hear couples say, when they become parents, like that turns them on. And that is because they have completely entered a new role. That like, seeing him as a father, seeing her as a mother, and that's like such a life change that kind of just goes to show. It's like, we think these things are hot.

• 1:12:52Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:12:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  When you mix it up.

• 1:12:54Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:12:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  The ultimate mixing up is becoming a parent. You know? It's just like, that's what a woman is saying when she's like, seeing him as a father. Obviously, that's the father of her children, but it's like seeing him in a new role.

• 1:13:05Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:13:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, you never got to see him as a sexy dad. Look at him go.

• 1:13:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know. Even the dad bod kind of becomes a turn on.

• 1:13:12Rayna Greenberg?

  I've never had a bad one.

• 1:13:13Speaker 00

  It's cute.

• 1:13:14Rayna Greenberg?

  It's cute.

• 1:13:15Speaker 00

  It's cute.

• 1:13:15Rayna Greenberg?

  So maybe we wrap this this part up with talking about the different forms of intimacy. Because you kind of break it down into different categories and it's a good way to think about it. So we'll kick it to you to talk about it.

• 1:13:24Speaker 00

  Absolutely. So just like there's different forms of pleasure, there's different forms of intimacy. And so, you know, I think couples often feel, especially if you've gone through a dry spell, you can feel like sex almost starts to feel awkward. And a lot of times that's because you haven't been engaging in other types of intimacy. And so what are these other types of intimacy? Well, we can talk about, for example, intellectual intimacy. That goes back a little bit to our conversation about leaning in and wanting to hear about each other's different worldviews or opinions or ideas that they're learning about. You know, maybe it's politics, maybe it's, look, I mean, there's so many crazy things happening in the world right now. I mean, it could be uniting over a shared personal value belief and looking at that.

• 1:14:08Speaker 00

  It could also just be connecting over a really good book that you just read.

• 1:14:12Rayna Greenberg?

  An article.

• 1:14:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. Any kind of intellectual piece where you feel like your partner is seeing this aspect of you and, you know, really feeling like it's turning their brain on.

• 1:14:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 1:14:23Speaker 00

  Right? Then we have aesthetic intimacy, right? Taking in something like a beautiful meal or a gorgeous sunset or a beautiful painting or just being in awe of something together.

• 1:14:34Rayna Greenberg?

  Just the shared experience of it.

• 1:14:35Speaker 00

  Just the shared experience. And going back to, you know, feeling a little bit turned on by seeing your partner in a new role, right? When they're able to be a good father, right? We might feel sort of connected to each other when, you know, I know my husband and I, when our kids are doing something that they're shining at, right? Our kids are all very sporty. So we were at a gymnastics meet last week and our daughter is, you know, doing all these back handsprings and, you know, there's sort of a sense of connection, like, oh, my God.

• 1:15:01Rayna Greenberg?

  Obviously.

• 1:15:01Speaker 00

  Look what we did. We did, right? And there's sort of this shared sense of, you know, me awe with that.

• 1:15:08Rayna Greenberg?

  That's probably why my dad wants to get back together with my mom.

• 1:15:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:15:11Rayna Greenberg?

  It's a shared sense of awe about you.

• 1:15:13Speaker 00

  It's all you.

• 1:15:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Look at her go. I just want to go to arena shows with her mom.

• 1:15:16Speaker 00

  Look at her go.

• 1:15:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, please don't.

• 1:15:20Speaker 00

  Future oriented intimacy too, right? And that's one where talking about the future, what you want, not just who's gonna pick up the kid from daycare the next day, or who's gonna go to the grocery store to get milk, but like, what are your dreams? What are your hopes? What are you excited about in the future? Right? Again, all of these things help us to feel better connected. Because, again, we feel attracted to our partners when we see them shining in a light, but we also feel connected to them when we feel seen, right? And that's when we experience those other forms of intimacy. I think it sort of helps to breathe that, that feeling of sort of feeling validated and appreciated. Yeah, so I think fostering these other types of intimacy can just be so helpful for couples,

• 1:16:05Speaker 00

  especially if you're going through any kind of a dry spell and you're looking to sort of get that intimacy and overall connection back in your relationship so that you can feel like you can take a step towards sexual intimacy. And then finally, I mean, again, I cannot overemphasize just the importance of non-sexual physical touch. The hugs, the being together, like we talked about, just being side by side. I think a lot of couples come home from work at the end of the day. They're not spending time together. One's upstairs in the study on the computer. The other might be downstairs watching a movie. You know, you're not even in the same room together, right? Trying to increase just the, even just the amount of time that you're spending in the same physical proximal space

• 1:16:50Speaker 00

  is going to be good for your sex life.

• 1:16:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, and what are you doing for dinner? Like, we connect over dinner? Like, we'll sometimes cook together, or I'll cook, and, but he's in the kitchen with me, or vice versa?

• 1:17:00Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:17:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Isn't that the time when you should connect? You know, like, are you just ordering takeout? And when you're in separate rooms and it arrives and you just eat it?

• 1:17:07Speaker 00

  Eat it in separate rooms? That's so sad.

• 1:17:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  We all have to eat, girls gotta eat. We all have to eat dinner. That's the easiest time, I feel like, to make sure you're connected. So, let's wrap this conversation up with this sexual destiny beliefs versus sexual growth beliefs. And just, I guess, a encouraging note that our sexual dynamic is not permanent.

• 1:17:28Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:17:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 1:17:29Speaker 00

  Exactly. And that's what we find in the research is that couples who have sexual growth beliefs, meaning they are committed to change, they are understanding this idea that sex can absolutely get better through communication, through feedback, that you can try things and have them epically fail and be able to have a sense of humor about it. And that sometimes we need to have bad sex before we can have good sex.

• 1:17:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:56Speaker 00

  And that's okay. It kind of works that way. Couples who have sexual destiny beliefs are more likely to believe that the type of sex you're having now is just kind of the type of sex you're always going to have, right? That married sex is just married sex, that sex doesn't really get better because chemistry is, you know, found, not made, when in reality, all of these things can be nurtured. It just comes down to being vulnerable and communicating and being open to feedback and failure, which is just a vital part of the whole process.

• 1:18:29Rayna Greenberg?

  And there are some people that aren't open to feedback and they're not open to growth. And maybe that's not your person. And I've definitely run up against that with people in the past that I really liked them as people a lot, but it was just sort of off the table to discuss these things and to explore. And I'm a really sexual person and I really like to talk about this. And I've trained for that my whole life. You know, my mom's the therapist. We talk about this in our show every week. So I'm not saying it's easy, but I've been with people that there was like a total unwillingness to do that. And sometimes that's just not your person.

• 1:19:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  But if you're like married, you can try to go to therapy and get to the root of the problem. Like you talk about this couple and it was like the same kind of man, like you've dated a couple of people like this, just trying to dig it out of this guy. And he felt insecure about his body and he was tired. And it's just like you could kind of try to figure that out.

• 1:19:15Speaker 00

  In that example, again, it wasn't about her.

• 1:19:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Her. Sure. And he was like shocked that she thought he wasn't attracted to her. But why would we think otherwise?

• 1:19:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Right. Right.

• 1:19:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm the person you're having sex with. Right. Like, why aren't you initiating?

• 1:19:27Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:19:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Have you seen couples, married or not, but long, long-term years, years, get like freaky later in life? Like they

• 1:19:35Speaker 00

  Oh, absolutely.

• 1:19:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  They were just more vanilla.

• 1:19:38Rayna Greenberg?

  I just want to say this in an encouraging way, like, because I think sometimes it can be really hard. If you haven't really dabbled in some of these kinkier things early on, it's tough to pick them up later in life, but it can be done.

• 1:19:47Speaker 00

  In fact, if we, you know, look at research by Justin LaMillar, the people who are having these freaky fantasies tend to be middle aged.

• 1:19:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 1:19:55Speaker 00

  We, we think it's young people who want to be freaky and try all these different things. But, I mean, if you think about it, middle age, it can be a time of sexual renaissance for people.

• 1:20:07Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, aren't we learning more as we get older? I'm kind of freakier every year. You're so close with that person, let's try this thing.

• 1:20:14Speaker 00

  Let's try spanking, why not? Let's try the blindfold, let's try the pinwheel, whatever it is, let's try being tied up and laughing about it.

• 1:20:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Right, though. Tie me up while I laugh at you.

• 1:20:25Speaker 00

  Why not? We tend to be more confident as we get older. We tend to care less about what other people think.

• 1:20:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 1:20:31Speaker 00

  We tend to know our bodies better, we tend to know our partners' bodies better. All of these are kind of the exact ingredients you need to be able to have that sense of sexual freedom and curiosity. And so, yeah, I see a lot of couples where, you know, yes, there are definitely a group where that over familiarity sticks in. They haven't put in a lot of effort, it's not something they prioritize. They don't view having good sex when you're married as something that's important. If both people are on the same page about that, you know, the research shows, that's okay, that's fine. But if you are interested in having a thriving sex life, do you know that middle age can be a time when it can come roaring back?

• 1:21:13Rayna Greenberg?

  It's never too late.

• 1:21:14Speaker 00

  It's never too late.

• 1:21:15Rayna Greenberg?

  I really want to drive that message home.

• 1:21:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:21:18Rayna Greenberg?

  I feel like I learn new stuff every year.

• 1:21:19Speaker 00

  Oh, me too.

• 1:21:20Rayna Greenberg?

  That's crazy.

• 1:21:21Speaker 00

  And me, even in my profession, me too.

• 1:21:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, I'm sure, every week you learn something different.

• 1:21:26Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:21:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, we want to touch on something that we haven't talked a lot about with like sex therapists and doctors. Like hookup culture and casual sex and can you be having casual sex without quote unquote going insane? Is that normal? How to navigate it? And on like a personal level, like recently I've been having some casual sex and I kind of just hit this wall where I was like, this just isn't that enjoyable. And I want to lay in bed with somebody afterwards and talk to them and enjoy hearing what they have to say and feel like a closeness. And I think, you know, we are encouraged to be like sexually open and open minded and I am those things. But I was sort of like, why isn't this as fun as it used to be for me? This vibe? And it's just, that's not what I want for my life. And I want committed intimacy. And if you don't want those things, that's fine, too. But let's talk a little more about casual sex and liking it or not liking it.

• 1:22:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just want to like, blow the lid off this, you know, and you tell us, but my feeling is that casual sex situations typically don't end well.

• 1:22:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 1:22:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Again, whatever you've got going on is great. And I feel like the satisfaction is short-lived. I think a friends with benefits, someone's probably gonna get hurt. I think a fuck buddy, it feels short-lived. It can be fun for a few times, but then you're horny at different times and you're not, he's not, the booty calls aren't lined up. And I just feel like we were raised by Samantha Jones. And I think she was a net positive in terms of empowerment and sexual expression, for sure. I mean, an icon. But I think maybe we thought we'd enjoy the casual sex a little more. We were kind of fed a narrative that probably doesn't work for the majority of people.

• 1:23:01Rayna Greenberg?

  And for the majority of time. I think you can do it a couple of times, and then one person does sort of start to develop feelings and you beat yourself up. Like, this was supposed to be casual. This was my fuck buddy. But there's nothing wrong with being like, I've had these really intimate moments with somebody a few times. And now I do start, I'm starting to feel something. But the contract we signed is not that.

• 1:23:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly.

• 1:23:21Rayna Greenberg?

  And there's nothing wrong with you for feeling like that.

• 1:23:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  And like casual sex, I've had a ton of it. This is like no judgment. And one night stands and all the things, you have the stories to tell. And we've built careers on it. And we do stand up comedy about it. Like, you know, it's, it's served me well. But when I really reflect, you're like, it's not the best sex. And sometimes you get hurt and you feel bad. And, you know, I wonder how many people resonate with this narrative that like, we thought we were gonna be Samantha Jones. And we ended up feeling like shit sometimes.

• 1:23:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Turns out we're all charlatans. And it turns out, there's actually, that's very normal and healthy and there's like, nothing wrong with that.

• 1:24:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, to have feelings and like, it's the most intimate thing you can do. I'm reflecting on the strangers I got naked with.

• 1:24:06Speaker 00

  Sex is never just sex.

• 1:24:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 1:24:08Speaker 00

  And that's the thing is, I mean, it is really complicated, right? And I do a lot of polling. One of the nice things about having 1,200 students in my class every quarter is I can poll them.

• 1:24:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:19Speaker 00

  Right? And so, it's like, we kind of need to hold space for two different types of experiences. Because, on the one hand, yes, a lot of people are having some really negative experiences. Either where the sex isn't that great and it leaves them feeling a little bit used, to feeling like they were just entirely led on by the experience, right? Like, the person that they were hooking up with, they thought that it was in the context of maybe going somewhere, but they hook up with them and then they like, get ghosted, right? Or they, you know, my students are all on Snapchat, so there'll be sort of this social media exchange going on, but no real follow-up. And I think that that feels really crummy, right?

• 1:25:00Speaker 00

  And I mean, it's kind of why, in my book, I talk about my new consent manifesto, where I say that, you know, we need to be talking about, when we're engaging in casual sex, not only having consent to have sex with the other person's physical body, right? Which is obviously critically important, right? We need to be asking for consent, we need to be making sure, all through the experience, that everybody is consenting to everything enthusiastically and intentionally aware of how the other person is feeling. But we need to have consent emotionally too, right? Which means, having a level of emotional honesty about what the experience means. Not future faking, right?

• 1:25:41Speaker 00

  As we talked about, future-oriented intimacy, talking about the future does lead a person on. Don't tell them, you can't wait to introduce them to your parents, if you don't have any intention of, you know, seeing them again after that night. And I know some people will argue, "Well, what if you don't really know until, you know, after you've had sex with them?" I kind of call bullshit on that. I feel like most people... People go into a sexual experience kind of having a sense of a certain intention.

• 1:26:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:11Speaker 00

  Like kind of knowing this is somebody I actually am sort of interested in versus I'm not.

• 1:26:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Box theory is like men unfortunately have you and like I'm gonna date her, I'm gonna just fuck her. Box. It's not always the case, but you know, that's why that's so popular.

• 1:26:25Rayna Greenberg?

  I think, I'm glad that you said that. Call bullshit. You don't need to tell me that I'm gonna meet your family.

• 1:26:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:26:30Rayna Greenberg?

  That you think I'm so amazing, you have feelings for me. Like, you don't actually have to say those things.

• 1:26:35Speaker 00

  You don't have to say those things and be transparent about your situation, right? Are you moving across the country?

• 1:26:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:41Speaker 00

  I had a story of a girlfriend who met someone, she was on a work trip, met this guy. They were at a hotel bar, had a great time. They had casual sex by all measures. The casual sex was actually pretty good. But then the next day, when she was like, oh, if we're ever in the same city, maybe we can meet up again. Found out he was married. You know, that was just something he hadn't told her. So it's like, these stories happen and that these, you know, create these terrible, empty experiences.

• 1:27:10Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 1:27:10Speaker 00

  And back to this, you know, Samantha Jones, it's like, I do feel one of the sort of pitfalls of the sex positivity movement is that instead of freeing women to have more of the sexual experiences they want to have, I mean, and to some extent it has done that.

• 1:27:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 1:27:29Speaker 00

  But it's also almost put this new standard in place where I think a lot of women feel like they're kind of supposed to be having sex like a guy. It's sort of this traditional masculine, emotionalist hookup where we don't have feelings afterwards. That's leaving a lot of people feeling empty. But you guys, here's the thing, right? Because unfortunately, it's not that simple. Otherwise, I'd be out here preaching to everyone to stop hooking up and stop having casual sex.

• 1:27:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 1:27:57Speaker 00

  Because when we look at the research and when I poll my students every single quarter and I ask them about their emotional experiences about hooking up, about a third of them, right? So this is way less than half, but it's not zero. But about a third of them say it was. Awesome. Say it was exciting. It was

• 1:28:16Rayna Greenberg?

  Great.

• 1:28:17Speaker 00

  pleasurable. It was a fun adventure.

• 1:28:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Sure.

• 1:28:20Speaker 00

  It helped them feel hot. It helped them feel validated.

• 1:28:23Rayna Greenberg?

  It can, a hundred percent. We've had those experiences.

• 1:28:25Speaker 00

  And so I don't want to throw those experiences

• 1:28:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Of course, totally.

• 1:28:29Speaker 00

  out. And I don't want to pretend they don't exist. And we see this in the research. We see this. I see it quarter after quarter, year after year in my own classroom. And so for some people, I want to be saying, yeah, it's okay if you're interested in having casual sex. If you're newly single, maybe you're newly divorced and maybe not looking for a long-term

• 1:28:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 1:28:52Speaker 00

  relationship, but are looking to get some action. That's okay. It's just about being honest about what it is

• 1:29:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 1:29:00Speaker 00

  that you want, that you're looking for, being kind to yourself, that no matter what it is, that's okay. And just having a level of emotional honesty about it, so we can make sure our partners are on the same page.

• 1:29:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I think we all want different things at different times in our lives. It's definitely, I've had a lot of casual sex that's fun. I think I'm in an era where I'm realizing that like, I don't want it. It doesn't feel good. I hurt my own feelings when I do stuff like that. And that's okay. It's okay for me to say I had a sexual intimate moment with a person that actually meant something to me. It means something to me to get naked with a person, have them be inside of me, share intimate moments with them, lay in a bed with them. That's okay to be like, it didn't work out the way I kind of thought it would. And that hurt my feelings.

• 1:29:41Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:29:42Rayna Greenberg?

  I am not, and not every day I'm my Samantha Jones, and I'm a really sexual person. I love sex.

• 1:29:46Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:29:47Rayna Greenberg?

  It's okay to also be like, I shared something really intimate with a person and I don't feel so casual about it.

• 1:29:53Speaker 00

  Yes. I mean, look, I had a slut era in my twenties too, that I massively enjoyed.

• 1:29:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:59Speaker 00

  Right?

• 1:29:59Rayna Greenberg?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:30:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, a hundred percent. And then I got to a point where I was like, this is feeling a little bit empty and I'm looking for something more meaningful. And then I met my husband. And guess what? Like, I don't have any desire to go have

• 1:30:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:12Speaker 00

  other sexual relationships because I feel like I had a sampling of what's out there.

• 1:30:16Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:17Speaker 00

  And I have a sexual growth mindset in my own relationship. But I'm glad I had those experiences and they were fun. And even the ones that weren't. Awesome. Taught me something.

• 1:30:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Sure.

• 1:30:26Speaker 00

  Taught me something about my body, about what I want.

• 1:30:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And all of our experiences in life aren't great. They're all learning experiences. But I just think, and if some people are built like Samantha Jones, and I think that's great. I think I was for a point in my life. And then I realized like, I don't think I want to do this like this. And it's just been really glamorized. And so the point we're all trying to make is don't feel bad if you catch feelings and you're not cut out for casual sex. And you talk about this woman that came into your office, her sister brought her in or something.

• 1:30:50Speaker 00

  Yep, exactly.

• 1:30:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  And she was like, my friends are doing this. And it hits different for me. Like, my friends are running around and fucking all over New York. And I don't like it. And it's like, that's fine. You know, we can't all be sluts.

• 1:31:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, not all the time.

• 1:31:05Speaker 00

  All the time.

• 1:31:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Maybe you've just outgrown yours.

• 1:31:08Speaker 00

  Or maybe we just want to be a slut with our husband, right?

• 1:31:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly.

• 1:31:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. But I mean, you hit the nail on the head. Like, it's about self compassion, right? And it's about compassion, but no, like catching feelings is real. Yes, you do bond. You do release oxytocin. That is a hormone, a neurotransmitter that is meant to bond you to the person that you're connecting with. That will happen, right? And so don't try to force yourself.

• 1:31:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  To be so chill.

• 1:31:36Speaker 00

  To be so chill.

• 1:31:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, that's what you talk about in the book, that this chill culture, it's like you're shamed for catching feelings with someone you let inside of you.

• 1:31:43Speaker 00

  Right. You're told you're needy.

• 1:31:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  How are you not supposed to?

• 1:31:46Rayna Greenberg?

  I know.

• 1:31:46Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:31:46Rayna Greenberg?

  And we beat ourselves up for, I really just like, I can't hammer it home enough. I've just had some experiences that I'm just like, this will be fun and we'll just have sex. And then I'm having sex with somebody that I like as a human being. Because why would you not like them as a human being? And you're like, oh, I like them. And there's nothing so fucked up about you that you're like, oh, I actually feel something for this person.

• 1:32:05Speaker 00

  Yes. No, that's not weak. That's called being a human being.

• 1:32:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's just being alive.

• 1:32:10Speaker 00

  That's unhealthy. And you're not lame if you're looking for clarity, to be on the other end of that, right? Where you, you feel like you're not quite sure where things stand. And that's where I do talk about this culture of chill in my book, that I know so many of my students, and I know people even who are single, who are older in their 30s or 40s, sort of feel like we're in this age where it's easier to communicate than ever because we have all these electronics. Forms of communication, whether it's texting or social media, but those forms of communication are not that rich. Meaning it's hard to tell what somebody really wants when you're trying to interpret their intentions from leaving a fire flame on your Instagram story. Right? So don't be afraid to ask where things stand or express what you want. That's

• 1:32:54Speaker 00

  not lame. It's actually kind of hot to express a level of self-confidence where you're like, no, I'd love some clarity. Right? And then be able to make a decision based on that information.

• 1:33:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  The best situation I ever had was where we first started the podcast. I was hooking up with that guy that was 10 years younger than me and I was in control. He liked me more than I liked him and I knew I was never gonna date him and we would have sex whenever I really wanted to. It was all on my terms. He was available and it lasted about six weeks, two months and then it, I don't know, kind of crashed and burned. I got too drunk one night. I was like acting crazy and then, but that's what these situations, they just feel short-lived. I think, I think things look enticing in the moment and you know, a friend of ours, she had this great fuck buddy situation and then she was like, but I was horny the other night and he didn't pick up, you know, and then you feel rejected, even though that's just, even if you don't want to

• 1:33:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  date that guy, he wasn't available for your booty call when you were horny. And so I just think when you're get into these situations, just know that they may not last. Yeah.

• 1:33:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, right. Exactly. And that's, you know, really what it comes down to is being intentional. So knowing what you like, really being honest with yourself about what you want, not feeling bad about that, not feeling like you have to apologize in any way for that and feeling like you're able to communicate that to the person that you're with so that you can make sure that they're on the same page. Right? Because the thing is, is like, something can be short-lived, but still a worthwhile experience.

• 1:34:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Absolutely.

• 1:34:22Speaker 00

  Right?

• 1:34:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, for sure. That was a great experience.

• 1:34:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. Like, it sounds like it was actually for a while it lasted.

• 1:34:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Pretty well. Write a bunch of comedy about becoming a maniac.

• 1:34:31Speaker 00

  Exactly. I mean, for the very least, it gives you good material. And so, you know, we can have those experiences that are imperfect, but that teaches something about ourselves or fulfill a need that we had at a certain time in our lives. And even if they kind of end awkwardly, we can still look at them as success stories because they fulfilled a very real need that we had in that moment.

• 1:34:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Absolutely, absolutely. Okay, one final question. We all know Gen Z is having less sex.

• 1:34:57Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:34:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  And how much less than millennials, for example? And do you really feel that in your classroom?

• 1:35:07Speaker 00

  I a hundred percent feel that in my classroom.

• 1:35:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:35:10Speaker 00

  Yes, they all are shocked because I poll them with this every quarter. If you had to guess how many students, you know, are sexually active right now in this classroom, what would you guess? And they all guess like, I don't know, 70, 80%.

• 1:35:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:35:23Speaker 00

  And then are you sexually active? And it's like 40 to 45%.

• 1:35:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Of college kids.

• 1:35:28Speaker 00

  Of college kids.

• 1:35:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was getting banged out.

• 1:35:31Speaker 00

  We do, I know.

• 1:35:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm surprised I survived.

• 1:35:33Speaker 00

  I know, me too. I know. How am I still alive?

• 1:35:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know, I literally don't now.

• 1:35:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's just crazy. So.

• 1:35:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  I went to the health center. I thought I had STD and I didn't. And I'm not going to share what actually was going on. To celebrate, I went out that night and fucked this random dude. Like to celebrate not having STD that I thought I got from someone else. The real numbers I've racked up in my life were in college.

• 1:35:56Speaker 00

  Oh, my God.

• 1:35:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Obviously. And we felt very safe around where we went to college. Like, I felt safe and I got it in. But also, it wasn't going to end up on the internet in any way. Not an orgasm would be found.

• 1:36:07Speaker 00

  It wasn't going to end up on the internet.

• 1:36:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  And that was a big piece of it for, I mean, I didn't know, but like now, looking back, I'm just like, everything I do, I assume will end up on the internet.

• 1:36:17Speaker 00

  No, that's exactly right.

• 1:36:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  I hope not, but okay.

• 1:36:19Speaker 00

  And so I think there are like a few forces going on.

• 1:36:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:36:22Speaker 00

  So, yes, there's the internet, right? And so students vocalize that, that they feel like they are afraid to even send like a text that might even be slightly suggested. Because it could be screenshot and put on social media. Or they're afraid that somehow it will get out there and people are so connected over social media that that will happen. But I think also, life is just a lot more intense right now.

• 1:36:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:49Speaker 00

  Than it was when we were in school.

• 1:36:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:36:52Speaker 00

  And I can even say, like, looking at. You know, I have an 18 year old applying to college and just the level at what which they're sort of expected to perform to get into college and to feel successful is so much greater than we were that age. So in other words, I just think the level of stress that exists right now for people in their twenties is just off the charts. I think that they're just really, you know, whether it's the economy, a lot of them have multiple jobs are, you know, trying to balance schoolwork with everything they've got going on. And so I just sense that they're just a lot more stressed out than in general.

• 1:37:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, it's the anxiety generation.

• 1:37:35Speaker 00

  How could they not be? They're all on their phones and they've come through COVID where they didn't have sort of that natural developmental phase of learning to flirt and figure out if somebody else likes you and how to handle rejection and understand that it's not the end of the world if they don't like you back. And because they never sort of had that practice when they were younger, the stakes just feel so much higher now.

• 1:38:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:02Speaker 00

  And so I feel like that has come into play as well.

• 1:38:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Drinking less too.

• 1:38:07Speaker 00

  They're drinking less. Yeah.

• 1:38:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  We weren't healthy. We were binge drinkers. We were blacking out, you know, for sport.

• 1:38:12Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:38:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  But I just, I have no judgment. I am grateful every day of the age I am and the way I was able to grow up. I mean, these young twenty somethings, late teens, mid twenties, like they grew up in a school shooting era. They've gone through the last 10 years of this Donald Trump era. The economy's in the shitter.

• 1:38:29Rayna Greenberg?

  You'd think they'd be drinking more.

• 1:38:30Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:38:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  They have the internet. They had COVID. Like it's, they have been dealt a really tough hand.

• 1:38:36Speaker 00

  A really tough hand.

• 1:38:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  And so I don't do this whole like, they need to be having sex. But like we were, it's just like, I feel for them and they'll figure it out. But like, they've been.

• 1:38:45Speaker 00

  It's just a lot harder.

• 1:38:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Time is just easier.

• 1:38:47Speaker 00

  The last drinking thing is really interesting.

• 1:38:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:38:50Speaker 00

  It's really interesting. And you know, there is part of me that just wonders, if women are having less sex because they're drinking less, to a certain extent, are they having less of the sex that they never wanted to have in the first place?

• 1:39:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. When I look back at all the sex that I had and how blacked out I was, I never.

• 1:39:08Speaker 00

  I probably never wanted to have that sex.

• 1:39:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  I want to say I'm thankful that I, to my knowledge, I've never been assaulted. I've never been forced into any type of intimacy, but.

• 1:39:17Rayna Greenberg?

  Would I have done it? Probably not half of the time. I mean, it just wasn't decided by what I mean.

• 1:39:22Speaker 00

  Exactly, exactly. So, I mean, in that regard, the fact that they're having less sex, maybe it isn't entirely negative.

• 1:39:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Totally. No, we don't think it's negative.

• 1:39:32Speaker 00

  For some of those reasons. Also, you know, the other hopeful thing is that I do think Gen Z is being a bit more intentional in their dating choices.

• 1:39:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Great.

• 1:39:41Speaker 00

  Right? I mean, which is-

• 1:39:43Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm not saying be like me.

• 1:39:45Speaker 00

  Which is good. Exactly. Like, even in the last couple of years, I've definitely seen a bit of a vibe shift. Where it's like, I want to have more of an idea of where this thing's headed before I jump into bed with you.

• 1:39:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Great, yeah.

• 1:40:00Speaker 00

  I'm not sure if I want to just like hook up and have it mean nothing. This whole trend even now of like hot take dating, right? Where you talk about right away, like-

• 1:40:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, we talked about it.

• 1:40:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know you did. Yeah, I would love that. And it's like you are being honest about the person that you are and what your values are and talking about real things before you jump into bed with somebody.

• 1:40:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Hundred percent. And no one ever told me to think about those things. Like, the number one piece of dating advice I had growing up, it's the same with dating advice, all of our parents, if he wanted to, he would. That's, that's the only dating advice I had growing up.

• 1:40:30Speaker 00

  Right, I know.

• 1:40:31Rayna Greenberg?

  And that's it. And I never really thought about all these things.

• 1:40:34Speaker 00

  It's very complicated. And then, of course, the other fascinating thing happening is that we have such more fluid ideas around gender and sexuality now, that a lot of people are still in a very exploratory stage with their sexuality, right? We know that 22% of Gen Z identifies as LGBTQIA+.

• 1:40:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Twenty, oh wow.

• 1:40:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, 22%, 84 fifths of that, that group identifies as bisexual. And so to a certain extent, there might be a little bit of this idea of I need to figure out who I am first before I'm just going to be having all of these hookups. So that could be, you know, at play too. Again, some of these are not necessarily negative things that are leading to a decrease in the frequency of sexual behavior we're seeing.

• 1:41:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Absolutely. Okay, we love that framing.

• 1:41:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, we could keep you here. I told her, I was like, this is gonna be a long interview. We could keep you here all day and you are so amazing. And for people that can't take your course, the book is phenomenal.

• 1:41:35Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:41:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Actually, that's why Ashley's back in calling.

• 1:41:37Speaker 00

  You can take my course over the summer asynchronously if you'd like now.

• 1:41:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Really?

• 1:41:41Speaker 00

  You can.

• 1:41:42Rayna Greenberg?

  Like if I'm not enrolled?

• 1:41:43Speaker 00

  Yes, you can. You absolutely can.

• 1:41:45Rayna Greenberg?

  We'll log in.

• 1:41:46Speaker 00

  Really? I'll send it to you.

• 1:41:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Actually, we'll come speak at your course.

• 1:41:50Speaker 00

  I'll post on my Instagram.

• 1:41:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you ever have guest professors?

• 1:41:53Speaker 00

  Yes, actually, no joke. You guys should totally come as guest speakers.

• 1:41:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Come to my show in Seattle. I want to put you on the spot.

• 1:41:59Speaker 00

  At the end of April.

• 1:42:01Rayna Greenberg?

  Come to my show in Seattle.

• 1:42:02Speaker 00

  You should do it. That'd be amazing.

• 1:42:04Rayna Greenberg?

  We would love to.

• 1:42:05Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh. Do you guys want to come guest speak in my class?

• 1:42:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 1:42:08Speaker 00

  Oh, my God. That would be amazing. My students would freak out.

• 1:42:16Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, April 30th is my show in Seattle. Ashley will come with me.

• 1:42:19Speaker 00

  Okay, you're coming.

• 1:42:20Rayna Greenberg?

  We would love it.

• 1:42:20Speaker 00

  I would love it. I have Ari Kietzke coming the week before you.

• 1:42:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, she's great. She's amazing.

• 1:42:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, she's awesome. So students are gonna freak out.

• 1:42:28Rayna Greenberg?

  That would be amazing.

• 1:42:29Speaker 00

  That'd be so cool.

• 1:42:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Actually, we joke around a lot, but our live shows, people ask like, what's the age range to come to your live shows? And we say, we've seen more and more women coming with their daughters. So like women in their 40s bringing their daughters who are like 20.

• 1:42:41Speaker 00

  I'm totally bringing my daughter and her best friend.

• 1:42:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes. Please do. Please do. This will be so exciting.

• 1:42:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, that'll be so fun. I'm gonna do that. I can't wait.

• 1:42:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, we'll chat offline about our.

• 1:42:51Speaker 00

  All right, sounds great.

• 1:42:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, tell everybody where they can get your book and find you and your Instagram.

• 1:42:56Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh. This was, first of all, such a pleasure, you guys. Thank you so much for having me. But yes, please check out my book, You Could Be Having Better Sex, which is sold everywhere books are sold. You can also follow me on Instagram or TikTok at Nicole underscore the Sex Professor, or subscribe to my newsletter, which you can find by going to my website, nicolethesexprofessor.com.

• 1:43:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, and you guys can find us at girlsgottaeat.com. Get tickets to our Netflix is a Joke live show in LA on May 7th. girlsgottaeat.com, GirlsGotEat Podcast on Instagram and TikTok. I am Ash Hess on Instagram and TikTok, Rayna Greenberg on Instagram and reinagreenberg.com for her tickets. And we'll see you on campus. And subscribe on YouTube, watch on Spotify, video on Spotify now. And we will see you guys Thursday.

• 1:43:46Speaker 00

  Have a good week, guys.

• 1:43:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Bye.