Pod Insights WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp He Ran The Pentagon’s Secret UFO Program - And Says We’ve Been Played : Dr. James Lacatski (PART 1) About this episode In this explosive PART ONE, Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp sit down with Dr. James Lacatski - former DIA intelligence officer and shadowy architect behind the Pentagon's classified Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Applications Program (AAWSAP) and Kona Blue UFO programs - for a no-holds-barred "testimony" he'd deliver straight to Congress.
For the first time since his explosive revelations two years ago, Lacatski unleashes revelations that shatter the official narrative: deliberate disinformation campaigns by AARO, the shocking truth behind Kona Blue's "cancellation" (spoiler: it's alive in ways you won't believe), and his authorized bombshell on a recovered UFO craft where U. S. teams breached the hull to uncover propulsion mysteries that defy earthly physics.
From Skinwalker Ranch's rogue paranormal hunts to Senator Reid's secret election fears stalling funding, Lacatski exposes counterintelligence ops targeting whistleblowers, the futility of congressional hearings, and why his 1,200 pages of declassified docs reveal more than any Hill spectacle ever could. Is AARO a disclosure facade or a full-spectrum psyop? Why won't they admit the craft in our possession? And what really powers these tic-tac enigmas?
This is the inside story from the man who managed the Pentagon’s most secretive UFO investigation - and whose statements have become some of the most consequential admissions in UFO history. This is controlled UFO chaos.
WATCH PART 2 HERE : https://youtu.be/cggMuAjFJcI
Pick up a copy of Dr. Lacatski’s NEW book titled Inside the U. S. Government Covert UFO Program: New Insights here : https://a.co/d/3IzB2HH
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Reach out to us at [email protected]
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Watch Corbell's six-part UFO docuseries titled UFO REVOLUTION on TUBI here : https://tubitv.com/series/300002259/tmz-presents-ufo-revolution/season-2
Watch Knapp’s six-part UFO docuseries titled INVESTIGATION ALIEN on NETFLIX here : https://netflix.com/title/81674441
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You can now watch all of Corbell's movies for free on YouTube here :
BOB LAZAR : AREA 51 & FLYING SAUCERS
https://youtu.be/sZaE5rIavVA
HUNT FOR THE SKINWALKER
https://youtu.be/TczkJ6UAQ8A
PATIENT SEVENTEEN
https://youtu.be/gDVX0kRqXxE
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Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at WeaponizedPodcast.com
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Speaker 00 This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.
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0:58 Jeremy Corbell? OSAP was the US government's largest acknowledged UFO study program in history, and Dr. James Lakatsky was the head of that program.
1:08 Speaker 03 I was the creator and DIA program manager of OSAP, the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program, and of the follow-on Kona Blue Program, KBP.
1:21 Jeremy Corbell? You've already admitted, because you're allowed to, that we have exploitation or a UFO program to study at least one craft. That has been the core question people have been arguing about, and you're answering that publicly. One more thing, I want to see if we can take you a step further. This is Weaponized.
1:44 Speaker 04 The following is part one of two of our interview with Dr. James Lacatski.
1:49 Jeremy Corbell? So Jim, it's been a couple of years since you've been on Weaponized, almost to the day, and you really shocked everybody with your allowed ability to say certain things. And we'll get into that. But I wanted to first say, you were asked to speak in front of Congress. It was a time when you couldn't, but I did a fifth. Officially call you on behalf of Congress and ask, would you be willing to testify? Even if it's just in a skiff and it's behind closed doors compared to public. But you know, Congress was really interested to hear what you had to say. Now you saw George give a full statement in front of Congress about his history with the UFO topic.
2:29 Jeremy Corbell? And I get a sense today, you want to give us a statement right now, like something that maybe you would say to Congress? If you were doing a public hearing, is that correct?
2:39 Speaker 03 Yeah, I would be able to say this. I'm saying it now or will be in a few moments.
2:44 Jeremy Corbell? Okay.
2:44 George Knapp? Please be kind, Jim.
2:47 Speaker 03 Okay.
2:49 George Knapp? Take it away.
2:50 Speaker 03 Okay, well, I'm going to do the whole thing and excuse my looking down and reading. So as way of background, I was the creator and DIA program manager of OSAP, the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program, and of the follow-on Kona Blue Program, KBP. Both classified programs, regardless of what the internet has said in the past, both classified. Now, other than your invitation, uh, I guess that would have been two months ago now. No one from the House Oversight UAP Investigational Committee of Congress has ever, after multiple hearings, contacted me.
3:34 Speaker 03 Right at the beginning, I had a phone call where a young lady and her partner, a male, who never said another word other than introducing himself, uh, went through a checklist and said, what did I think of these people? Well, you know, as a professional, what am I supposed to say? They're great or they're rotten. I just gave a generic answer.
4:02 Speaker 03 So now here's, here's the thing that's very important. Our, and I want to use that as, as a proper term. The public's, yours, George's, and my testimony is contained in the books. They are complete. I'll tell you in a moment how difficult that was to do. But they are complete. That's everything that I have been approved to say, condensed into what will be 1,200 pages.
4:32 Speaker 03 So those books are Skinwalkers at the Pentagon, Inside the U.S. Government Covert UFO Program, Initial Revelations, the new book, New Insights, and the also-approved future book, let's say, four months, six months, Future Visions. Now, that is a complete package. That's all I could ever say to the Congress, and they can read it and know a hundred times more than they're ever going to get from hearings. Okay, now, George had a good point on the next statement. "These books are not written in the traditional sense.
5:16 Speaker 03 They're assembled. They are not about questionable," I added that word, "questionable flying saucer stories, paranormal tales, or fanciful descriptions of strange visitors from other worlds. They are not my beliefs, conjecture, or opinion, nor are the attention-seeking babble from the Internet, podcasts, or written articles, or books by individuals who are not affiliated with OSAP. You're surprising who is coming out of the woodwork, and I don't even know those people, claiming association and lack of knowledge of the program's true nature.
5:59 Speaker 03 Instead, the books factually detail the results of OSAP's day-to-day activities, assembled only from official government files at DIA and approved for release by the Department of Defense or War." Now, Colin Callahan, as program manager at BAS, the contractor, was dealing with 30,000 pages of information to submit to me at DIA, he reduced that, as you know, to 7,500 pages, the 115 documents. I have further reduced that to what will be a total of 1,200 pages so far. And now, here's something most people don't seem to realize.
6:46 Speaker 03 If you have the free version of Kindle, I make about 50 cents a book. If you buy a full printed copy, I make a dollar fifty. And believe me, in this niche market, I am not laughing all the way to the bank. It was a lot of work to basically earn what in the Washington area is minimum wage. I, by the way, would have to be selling eighty books a day to keep up with minimum wage if I had a full-time job at a fast-food restaurant. Now, let's speak about DIA.
7:25 Speaker 03 DIA FOIA states that the 7,500 pages cannot be found so that the public can directly read them. They'll be a difficult read. They were written for me, but surprise, surprise, no one has contacted me to obtain copies for redaction. They could. I and twelve other people have them.
7:51 Speaker 03 It's not bothering? Or is there something more to this? These books are our, me, you, and George, effort to further disclosure and are much more revealing than any congressional hearings have been so far. Now, this is my way of cataloging this or segmenting this. At the hearings and on the Internet, there are four classes of individuals that I've observed. Truthful descriptions of observations, but sometimes they are fooled by classified weapons testing or counterintelligence activities. That's fine.
8:34 Speaker 03 There are delusions, either from within their own minds or from, and I can't go into this, external influences.
8:43 Speaker 03 Unfortunately, in category three, there are outright liars. They're unfortunately the minority. To some, I can tell you directly, and by observing raising the right hand is meaningless. The most dangerous, however, and prolific are individuals have no idea what they are talking about, but speak with authority. Those are the ones you, George, and the public have to watch out for. Very hard to discriminate versus are they liars? Are they delusional? Or do they have purpose? And remember, it is so, I alone have five to 10 emails.
9:27 Speaker 03 It is so easy to appear as a different person in the counter intel world. Okay, now here's a tough statement. I don't suspect, wonder, or harbor any suspicion that false statements have been made to Congress, to the Pentagon, to you, the press, and on the Internet. I know they have been. I know it. Deliberately false, not just incorrect, documents have been created about ASAP and Kona Blue and are in, currently in government files. This is a surprise and a first statement.
10:07 Speaker 03 I have reported some, there's a lot of it, some of the false information to the DOD, DOW Inspector General's office, providing the evidence. I requested that IG take no action against the individuals. No action because the false statements against, this is another strange one, against ASAP and Kona Blue, to my mind, have been ineffective. The initial reporting, let's go back to the day one, by the New York Times story in 2017, was totally inaccurate.
10:48 Speaker 03 Contrary to what some people claim, the authors knew my name and position at OSAP, yet never attempted to contact me. Likewise, The Washington Post, Politico contacted me within hours after the articles were published in the Free Publications, asking for my opinion. They knew my name, they had my phone number. Why didn't they contact me? Now, the Pentagon states that ATIP, really, OSAP, was not a UFO program. They've changed their tune, but the Pentagon has never asked me about anything.
11:30 Speaker 03 They circumvented me and went to my colleagues, but not me. News reporters call me, literally, within the last week, to this day, but only after the fact. There's no CNN, no Fox, CBS requests, nothing. Now, I'm not, I don't like to be out there in the public view, but let's face it, you're not talking to the program managers, myself, for a column on, on the two major UFO programs in the relatively recent past.
12:05 Jeremy Corbell? Well, we are.
12:06 Speaker 03 Oh, you are. And right now, I'm basically limiting it to you, because after my name and position in OSAP was prominently mentioned by George twice in the recent September congressional hearings, no contact has come from anyone except a known anti-disclosure reporter. In the second mentioning at the hearing, my integrity was questioned, and George had to defend it. I had been requested to meet with Arrow twice and have refused. The second time I was told, and I, I...
12:49 Speaker 03 I made the grammar a little better, so I could read it to you. Holding a meeting with you in a secure space is very easy. Under our authorities, you do not need a current clearance. The law also grants us additional security authorities. Under a special program, we can hold discussions at any level, including human. Huh? Uh, very interested in speaking with you. This is what the email says. And learning your insights into what we are currently working on. What does that mean?
13:26 Speaker 03 And there are no legal impediments regarding your issues of interest regarding their issues of interest. Well, what are they? Any investigative information held by the IG would not be an angle of information we are interested in. You have been lied to and you're not interested in it? Then what exactly are you interested in? The interview and information discussed would also be held in confidence. As we have demonstrated with all persons we have interviewed since 2022, when this began. Oh, by the way, you should have received notice last Friday that your adoption request completed staffing. That's on the two books.
14:11 Speaker 03 So that's good news. Now Arrow is reviewing books?
14:17 Jeremy Corbell? Wow.
14:17 Speaker 03 Hmm, what is the purpose of that? Now, not correct. Assuming authority is not necessarily having it. Three months later, I found out that the former deputy director of Arrow was disparaging UAP Paranormal Connection, a clear violation of not disclosing activities confidentially discussed. Now, the interviewer at the time said, this is a leading question. DIA's unofficial paranormal ghost hunt program at Skinwalker Ranch, where they went rogue. Well, now what? If that's not a preconception, I don't know what is.
15:01 Speaker 03 The response from the deputy director, they were looking for werewolves. The second response was Kona Blue was established as the home for all these paranormal UFO crap.
15:19 Speaker 03 Now, that's from the Deputy Director of Arrow. Now, that is a very objective view at UFOs. Now, this may come as a surprise to some people, but fundamental Christian or opposition to ASAP either did not exist. I know that it didn't, but it was ineffective, and I know that for a fact. In the eyes of DIA, ASAP was completely successful in achieving its objectives. Now, remember, this is important, and it's near the conclusion right here. Only believe ASAP and Kona Blue information directly read by you in the four books. This is to the public.
16:04 Speaker 03 Or if you hear directly statements from myself or Colin Keller. Something serious is going on. In my opinion, you all are in the middle of a, what I can only describe as a major and repetitive counterintelligence operation by unknown multiple operators or organizations and for unknown reasons. Big question, what is so important about ASAP or Kona Blue? Now, I use the past tense. For Kona Blue, I shouldn't be using the past tense. What is so important? I don't know. I really, the public needs to answer that.
16:47 Speaker 03 In my opinion, we're all being played like a fiddle, mainly me because I was slow to recognize it. But there's just too much that seems to be too focused, that is just unbelievable, that's being directed toward me. And I told George, I have even been criticized on my appearance and demeanor. It is, it is what?
17:15 George Knapp? You're a vampire, right? Aren't you a vampire?
17:18 Speaker 03 That's one of the comments.
17:20 Jeremy Corbell? Hey, welcome to Fight Club, man. I'm a veteran. It's okay to be, yeah, challenged.
17:25 George Knapp? I told Jim, Jeremy, I told Jim, good gosh, you gotta run with that. Imagine, DIA had a vampire in charge of its UFO program? That is a hell of a headline. That would sell a lot of books.
17:36 Speaker 03 So might as well have a vampire too. But the next thing on my sheets are something George asked about the major cases that I think are in the book and the strange things that I looked at in the book, but you probably already have those.
17:53 Jeremy Corbell? Yeah.
17:54 Speaker 03 So ask away, remember again, I'm limited to what's been approved.
17:59 Jeremy Corbell? Yeah.
17:59 Speaker 03 But each time you're going to get more and more because I'm for disclosure, but I am not uncontrolled. I want the public to be steered properly, not in and for any bad reasons, but people are not learning what they need to know because they're getting bogged down. And by the way, when people agree with negative observations about either of those programs on the internet, who are you dealing with?
18:31 Speaker 03 Who are you really dealing with there? So in any case, ask away.
18:39 Speaker 00 This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.
19:04 Jeremy Corbell? Yeah, I mean, I got like a bunch went off the bat from, from what you just said. I think if I were to summarize in my language, what you're saying is that you are realizing there is a sort of human intelligence campaign that is going on, that it's insidious, that it's prolific and that it's doing a good job of trying to dissuade and move the public from understanding any core reality about UFOs. Is that fair to say?
19:27 Speaker 03 Yes, exactly.
19:29 Jeremy Corbell? Okay.
19:29 Speaker 03 Exactly.
19:30 Jeremy Corbell? So I'm glad you caught up because George and I know for a fact that this has been going on and we know that Arrow is a, is a big part of it. And from what you just said, without you naming names or identifying specific organizations, it's very clear to me, and tell me if I'm wrong, that you believe Arrow to be more of a counterintelligence program than anything else, right?
19:53 Speaker 03 They're participating. Now, the individual whose email I read. Is very experienced in that area, but may honestly believe they have authorities they're claiming. Well, I, I tell you, the, the, there's some organizations in the intelligence community who claim all kinds of authorities that they do not have. And so you have to be cautious when people's managers tell them that. And what are they gonna do? Say, oh, no, we don't know. They're gonna, as best they can, not circumvent their managers, but play it down.
20:32 Speaker 03 Because they don't have the, human can be openly discussed because by, we have that authority? No way.
20:41 Jeremy Corbell? Okay, well, let's clarify for our audience. So George, I got about five quick things based on what he said.
20:46 Speaker 03 Go ahead.
20:46 Jeremy Corbell? I just want to get to them. So let's try to make this like really clear question and answer because there was so much you just said. But so first and foremost, Arrow was aware of the security review status of your books. So somehow they're
21:02 Speaker 03 Apparently, and directly stated it. They were, the first two were not sent there. I was asked for them and they bought copies. Now, why is Docser
21:16 Speaker 03 communicating that to them? That's a big question. I don't know the answer. Are they just interested in getting it quickly?
21:24 Jeremy Corbell? Well, I don't know. It feels, it feels kind of meddling. And so I want to put on top of that, something I noticed, which is in the last hearing, when George and I were nominating people and going through reviews with them and security reviews with them and introducing them to people, going through all these meetings. One thing I said, and they promised me, is that Arrow would not be involved in any way. No communication to Arrow. This is just free going to Congress. People could know that their information would not be shared with Arrow. That turned out not to be true. There was a leak in Congress where they were directly sharing information of people that George and I were nominating. And in some cases, people were contacted, you know, for kind of pre-reviews with
22:07 Jeremy Corbell? So Arrow was meddling, and I actually put in a request for this to be followed down by Congress. So now we're seeing another infiltration of Arrow from a human intelligence perspective. But I might not fully understand that. I want to, you said something. You said in Arrow's letter to you, they said, we can even discuss HUMIT, and you go, huh? Can you explain what is concerning about that to our audience?
22:32 Speaker 03 HUMIT is controlled by the organization that gathers the HUMIT. They cannot cross the lines in discussing it without a ton of paperwork. I went in and out of HUMIT constantly because I couldn't use it in my documents. I mean, yeah, I was reading it and it was like, well, what's good this? I can't share it in my, in my documents. Same here. I can't just go to Congress. Mr. Borland summarized it very well when he was directly asked. Can you talk to us in a SCIF?
23:09 Speaker 03 And he said, well, well, if you have the clearances, the proper clearances and your subcategories and, and whatever that you need that I have, that he has, uh, yeah, I can talk to you. Well, good luck in getting those.
23:30 Jeremy Corbell? Right. His point was, I don't even know if you can get clearance to hear everything I have to say. So even if I want to tell you, I'm restricted by your ability to hear it. Next question, why did you say we cannot talk about Kona Blue in past tense? I need you to elaborate on that.
23:49 Speaker 03 Kona Blue is much more than, Kona Blue, I can answer that directly, but I can't go into details. Kona Blue was a compartment. It was also a program.
24:04 Speaker 03 You can, if, if people knew what they were reading that was released, knew the,
24:10 Speaker 03 what is between the lines on what DHS, Department of Homeland Security, released, which by the way, was a very good write-up.
24:24 Speaker 03 There's a key sentence in there. Let people find it. A very good write-up. But the thing is, is
24:34 Speaker 03 What's to do with a compartment? Now, am I agreeing with what has been said in DHS's and what has been said by Arrow about Kona Blue? All I can say is hmm.
24:53 Jeremy Corbell? Okay, so I'm gonna read between the lines and assume that there is some active element or component to what we are calling Kona Blue, let it be an operation, a compartment, whatever, that it, you're talking, you can't talk about it.
25:05 Speaker 03 It's not a compartment, that's secure.
25:07 Jeremy Corbell? Okay, so it's not.
25:09 Speaker 03 A program continues. It can be unfunded, it can be funded, it can be temporarily funded, money can go in and out.
25:17 Jeremy Corbell? So a UFO study program could continue under that.
25:21 Speaker 03 And remember what we asked in the rear, it was, it was with a lot of thought. Column wrote it, in the rear portions of Skinwalkers at the Pentagon. We, he, suggested private money. Private money going in from multiple sources. And I can tell you now that caught people's eye.
25:44 Jeremy Corbell? Okay, so I mean, George, that's a, that's new to me, isn't that great?
25:50 George Knapp? It is. You know, Dr. Katsky, the picture that's been painted to the public by assorted people and debunkers and counterintelligence operatives is that Kona Blue was a crackpot idea. It went to Department of Homeland Security, there were some discussions, but they eventually decided there's no value in this. That's what we've been told. There's no value, it's a bunch of crazy stuff going on. And it is completely contrary to the process that you described in the earlier books.
26:20 Speaker 03 Absolutely.
26:21 George Knapp? That Dr. Terrell Tool and others recognized the value of it. They wanted it to go forward, somewhere, somewhere up above intervened, and the public is told it was killed right there.
26:34 Speaker 03 Yes. Yes, and that.
26:41 Speaker 03 The program was not killed. You can't kill Kona Blue.
26:47 Speaker 03 At one point in the near future, you'll start seeing it because I suggest to Dr. Kelleher that there be a book after these four, and I want the public to participate because it will be my interpretation and my statements that were made in DHS. I was not in favor of some things because I knew
27:14 Speaker 03 that I could never ask Congress for that amount of money. There was no way.
27:20 Jeremy Corbell? So, yes, so George, go ahead. I got a bunch more.
27:23 George Knapp? Dr. O'Toole, Dr. Tara O'Toole, you met with her. She's a brilliant person, has made no public comment, to my knowledge, about the Kona Blue process, the discussions that were had. She's staying away from it, and I don't blame her. But can you share with us some of what you've already reported and might report in the future about the value that she did see in approving that to go forward?
27:52 Speaker 03 I can't talk about that because we have to also talk about DHS interests. And I need approval as we move forward past what the Pentagon has already released. You got enough clues in there, by the way. People just haven't looked at it because they just took arrows to assessment. Oh, you know, let me repeat words from the deputy director here if I can
28:18 Speaker 03 find them.
28:21 Speaker 03 They were looking for werewolves. Kona Blue was established as the home for all this paranormal UFO crap. Now, isn't that great? What did you expect to come out in their review? Any reasonable person would say, or intel analyst, or
28:44 Speaker 03 You know, civilian intel analysts would say, I'm being having the wool pull over my eyes. Well, guess what?
28:53 Jeremy Corbell? Arrow is a disinformation campaign you're coming to realize by their public statements and how they're talking about a program that you have knowledge of, that they're completely lying to the American public.
29:04 Speaker 03 Well, I wouldn't use the word completely lying. That's not how counterintelligence work. There's some truth, there's some false. But, but you said it very clearly, steering the direction of the conversation. Because, let me tell you, you've been misdirected on the internet, time and time again, and people are claiming knowledge of these programs that have no knowledge, but the way they speak is that they do. I mean, they're, they don't identify themselves. Of course not, they wouldn't. But, and also, George, you're having problems, as I understand it, with your computer because of the Russians. You don't know it's the Russians.
29:48 Jeremy Corbell? Right, right. That's a really good point.
29:52 George Knapp? Yeah, that's the, yeah, that was the
29:55 Jeremy Corbell? Really good point.
29:55 George Knapp? I've had that thought as well. Staying on the Arrow issue, you know, OSAP is this amazing program, and you follow the where it leads, you collect a huge amount of data, you write these excellent reports, and all that work, you know, it, it sort of gets categorized as crazy werewolf poltergeist stuff and dismissed. Then, then Jay Stratton is in head of, head of UAP Task Force, also does great work, trying to find answers to these mysteries that the public is interested in, and then it goes away. It, and then they create some other interim program, and now we get Arrow, and it seems
30:39 George Knapp? to be completely contrary, directly opposite of all the work that was before it. That's a strategy, it's a pushback strategy, it seems. They invite whistleblowers, come on in, tell us your stories. Witnesses, come on in, bring your evidence. Seems designed to identify who knows what, and then dismisses all of it. They dismiss everything, only those whistleblowers and witnesses who came forward, but everything that was done before, by you, by, by Jay Stratton, UAP Task Force.
31:12 George Knapp? It is as clear as a big bloody handwriting on the wall, is it not?
31:19 Speaker 03 I mean, the four books are not, are the public record. The public paid for that information. All the little pittance that I'm earning is transferring and condensing the information. And I told you the other day, basically on the television interview, that it's complete. I didn't omit anything. It just was shrunk in size so it's digestible. Believe me, the 7,500 pages, the monthly reports are not digestible. You really don't want them. Now, I'm going to announce and summarize in the next book, two whole new categories of documents, big documents, that were done, that have never been mentioned.
32:03 Speaker 03 Yes, the pittance, a little bit of it, is in monthly reports. But the problem with the monthly reports, they were to me, and I was easily able to electronically and physically, because I know the documents, because I had the 7,500 pages, flip back and forth in time and in investigation. They were overlapping during a month. There was so much going on. Bass was up to speed so fast, which reminds me of two things. One is that the 10-month report that has been, the word is stolen.
32:43 Speaker 03 It was stolen. We tried to recover them because of what some people believed was what is called compiled classified information was in them.
32:54 Speaker 03 I disagreed, but nevertheless, we recall them. Unfortunately, we never numbered them, which we should have done. And we didn't get them all back. There may be two complete bound copies out there. They were supposed to be returned. Anyhow, the cat's out of the bag, but they weren't, they weren't demonstrating how quickly Bass was up to speed. And there were new projects listed in there that I can tell you went nowhere. They couldn't go anywhere because we were not getting the cooperation that we needed. And in one of them, where we were interviewing,
33:34 Speaker 03 People who were involved in UFO sightings primarily what we call the northern tier, the missile silo ones, I'm afraid most of them are gone. They've passed away. We tried to catch, catch the train there, but we couldn't do it. Now he'd passed away. So that, that part of the program failed, but it was in the 10-month report. It was, it's in the books as we attempted to do it. We were unsuccessful. There were just too many people had died. So, and the other one was, oh, I forgot to write this on the list. This is a real doozy. The Pentagon claimed that more important
34:18 Speaker 03 things were executed with the funding that was being spent on ASAP. Huh. It was new congressional money. There was no funds to divert. They either got it for this program, which they monitored, Congress monitored that money, literally dollar by dollar. They monitored it very closely that it was being spent on the right thing. They knew what they were doing at Skinwalker Ranch. The reason it stopped at the end of the second year was Bob Bigelow's base was too successful. They completed two months. They needed a three-month extension to complete the job, or they would have gotten a third
35:03 Speaker 03 year based on momentum. Since Senator Reid has passed away, I can tell you, he, he scheduled the phone call with me on a, basically a secure line and said, I'm sorry, Jim, there's a good chance I will be defeated based on the way things are going in the 2010 Senate election by Sharon Engel.
35:29 Speaker 03 He wasn't, but he became the minority leader, not the majority leader, because a lot of of his, his democratic partners were defeated.
35:42 Speaker 03 He said to me, I'm sorry, we, we, you, we can't give you the money this year. I will immediately execute it once we, I win the election, if and when. He was true to his word. The next day after the election, he called DIA and that, you know, the boat had sailed there because they wanted to pass the technical aspects off to another Pentagon unit. And as you know, I went off to Department of Homeland Security.
36:16 Speaker 03 So the thing is, is, and I guess since he's passed away, I can mention, he told me that he only trusted one individual with the knowledge of this program.
36:29 Speaker 03 Uh, whether that was really one individual or a couple, but he said, there is an intelligence gathering operation within my Washington office. Information as to the election is being leaked out and I can't risk it. And he just said, sorry, Jim, expressed sorrow to the people we're going to have to lay off because, you know, Bob Bigelow couldn't fund them for an extra year on his own money. He did for a while. That, that was more than a rumor. He did after the three month extension. It was that no funding, the three month. And then after that, he, he, he had some principles still on his payroll. He didn't just drop the program.
37:14 Speaker 03 He was more interested in the results than that.
37:19 George Knapp? So it wasn't the Collins elite. It wasn't religious fundamentalists in the Pentagon. Senator Reid paused the funding because he felt he had a spy in his office, that that information about OSAP could be leaked and be damaging to him in what turned out to be a very close election.
37:35 Speaker 03 Yes.
37:36 George Knapp? And, and paused it and wanted to restart it, but he was no longer majority leader after the election. He didn't have the same amount of clout.
37:43 Speaker 03 Well, he had clout, but I think the the information was had been leaked out inadvertently. People were passing it around. No one will ever find this, so I can mention the how I know it's being passed around and by not necessarily who, but it was by partially the first documents that were leaked. There was a secret page document, not of our writing. It was something about the Iraq war that was stuffed in to the copier machine or caught in it. And this person was illicitly copying a document and distributing it on the internet.
38:27 Speaker 03 So as you both know, it's like the Wild West, not just with UFOs, but with everything. And I always thought, by the way, that I thought the Arrow and the military investigations primarily were toward unidentified UAPs. Their performance was exceptional. I had pointed out one, one battery is good for hours on a UAV, a substantially sized one. But, you know, that's the way it is.
39:07 Jeremy Corbell? Did their efforts seem to be more on human intelligence and against the American public?
39:11 Speaker 03 I don't know. They had created, no, not against the American people. I was surprised by the response when I named their compartmented program to them. It was like, how did Lukashki know about that? Well, that's one of the problems with security. And I had to ask that everybody have a clearance in BASS. There's too much talking. So if you have a certain clearance level, you know, others have it. You talk about things you shouldn't be talking about. And it was mentioned to me and I was thinking, oh, I shouldn't be hearing this.
39:54 Speaker 03 I shouldn't be informed about this because I had retired.
39:59 Speaker 03 Who knows?
40:01 Jeremy Corbell? Let's tackle a couple of big issue things that people, a lot of people have written in and texted me, you know, about having you back on. George and I always hear, I want to tackle a few specific things that I wrote down. I want to go over with you. We can come back to this, but
40:15 Speaker 03 Oh, sure. No, you move ahead.
40:17 Jeremy Corbell? One of the things that people have talked about is the big question with all the hearings and everything is, do we have, does the United States have a physical UFO reverse engineering program? You know, is that a matter of factual information? Now, you're kind of seen as this Dr. Evil UFO gatekeeper because you don't speak outside of the bounds. You're a vampire, if you haven't heard. But you just said you are for controlled disclosure. So I'm going to remind you and everybody what we learned on the last Weaponized. Almost exactly two years ago, you had an authorized admission to make and you admitted and told us, it was in the book, but you said it verbally, you know, that we have a UFO in government possession,
40:59 Jeremy Corbell? that we have an exploitation effort on that vehicle, that we've had, that we've been successful in at least penetrating the hole. So you've gone on record and you told us that last time. Now, without going outside of those bounds, do you stand behind this?
41:20 Speaker 03 A statement? Oh, absolutely.
41:23 Jeremy Corbell? But let's get more specific than the statement.
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42:21 Jeremy Corbell? Do you stand behind that we have a UFO in our possession? And that because that would mean we have a reverse engineering program on that UFO. If you breach the hole, that would answer what everybody wants to know.
42:33 Speaker 03 I can't answer that.
42:36 Speaker 03 It goes beyond what I've been approved to say. And by the way, if you're looking at such a craft, what are you primarily interested in? The craft, the fact that it's empty? Or what in the world is the power supply and the motive force? What in the world is that? That's your, that kind of answers your question. What would you really be interested in?
43:00 Jeremy Corbell? Yeah, well, so you, because you, you know, have studied all of these types of propulsion systems and, um, you know, all these energy components, you would be interested in what drives this UFO. I, I might be interested in where does it come from? If no terrestrial human nation has made it. So I would have a different interest than you would have.
43:24 Speaker 03 Just discussed why I didn't want to go any further in Kona Blue. It is that difference and it is important because unless you have an infinite amount of funding, you've got to choose what you're looking at. You, as you know, and, and, and George knows, a fair amount of money went into the medical aspect of UFOs in, in OSA, much more so than was described. I mean, much more so. Someone like me might not, well, you know, it's not that I would, wouldn't care, but I'd be interested in how in the world they got here.
44:06 Speaker 03 I mean, what we currently understand in advanced physics is it isn't as advanced as we'd like to believe.
44:18 George Knapp? I'd be wanting to know where are the pilots? Who were they? Where did they go? If there were pilots.
44:24 Speaker 03 Yes.
44:25 George Knapp? There was no, there's no wings, there's no fuel, there's no fuel tanks. You couldn't, it's not immediate, obviously, it's not immediately obvious how this thing flew, if it flew. And if it flew under the control of pilots, what happened to them? That's what I'd want to know.
44:41 Speaker 03 Yeah. And others, and other people, the other in the public would want to know too. The ASAP wasn't the end all, at all. It's, it was a, what is it that they say on the old Twilight Zone? There's a signpost up ahead. It's nothing more than a signpost and, and, but Kona Blue is taking the signposts and saying, should I go that way? Should I not go that way? What are the ramifications? Now then, of course, there's a compartment. If you chose to go pure technology, you would, you would need the security. Otherwise, what's to secure?
45:25 Speaker 03 Because it's, it's, it's an open discussion, open. And so the public can participate.
45:33 Jeremy Corbell? So, okay, I mean, just at the core of it though, this is one of the largest admissions, because you are for controlled disclosure and you're getting things authorized. It is one of the largest admissions in UFO history that you're admitting and announcing through an authorized disclosure that, that you had to get authorized. It's amazing they authorized it, that we have a UFO in our possession and that we breached the hole and that there was none of these typical things you'd see for common flight. So again, I'm just asking, I know you've already affirmed it, but that is a factual statement under sworn testimony. You would tell that right to Congress, right?
46:08 Speaker 03 That's what's in the book. They can read it themselves. If they want my hand up, I could do that, but I can't go beyond what is in the text. The next book, I'm not talking about the next one in six months. I'm talking about the one that looks at Kona Blue from my perspective. I mean, a big decision point on four books of ASAP, even though only 1,200 pages, is what's important in there and what isn't.
46:37 Jeremy Corbell? Well, this is where you get in trouble, though. This is where you, Dr. Lukatsky, get in trouble. People say, well, why are you parsing this out in public books rather than testifying to Congress? They're supposed to have oversight of our government. Congress is supposed to have financial and substantial oversight over these things. So if you did testify that we have a reverse engineering program, we have a UFO, and you raise your hand and you say that is factual information, they're going to ask you, where is it being held? How is our money being spent for the taxpayers? Why is it going in your books instead of telling us, Congress, so we can have oversight?
47:12 Speaker 03 I mean, I can only release what I'm approved to release. And I too am surprised that they approve that. I put it in there deliberately. I put in the 115 books. I was told by intelligence people, they'll never authorize those 115 notebooks, documents from DIA. Now, what they're doing now in retrospect is they're denying their, not their existence, they obviously exist, but that we have them. Well, unless people are deleting electrons now, I had them all reduced to the size of a thumb drive. When I said there were 12 copies, they're on thumb drives.
47:56 Speaker 03 The fact is, they haven't just disappeared. What would be a real bear is for the government, a real bear, would be to go through there and clean it. Oh, I mean, they have electronic systems that can go through there and spot certain things if you know what to ask it to spot. But the thing is, is...
48:20 Speaker 03 I, I, I just on my own, I stated to Dobbs, sir, don't come looking for me for, for, uh, uh, cleaning those books up. They're, you know, they can give advice of getting rid of names, changing names, getting rid of sex, changing sex, addresses, cities. And I can do all that and we did do all that. But to do that on 7,500 pages and look at how the rules change. The thing is, is this last book, you notice the authors of the, of the references that were in the 115 documents? Their names have been removed, their institutions have been removed.
49:04 Speaker 03 That's been released to Congress already. It's been in the other books, but the rules change. I just don't want to get involved in that, in, uh, in, uh, having to be responsible. It would be very time consuming, but doing the books is a different story. I can say, I am controlling what is disclosed. I'm getting official approval. This is it. Just believe this and anything else you go on your own risk.
49:32 Jeremy Corbell? Well, I, I understand where you do the books, but I think Congress should have oversight. And I think that they should have you in to testify even behind closed doors. And then it's up to them what the rules are for them to have oversight over these programs. You've already admitted, because you're allowed to, that we have exploitation or a UFO program to, to study at least one craft. That has been the core question people have been arguing about, and you're answering that publicly. One more thing, I want to see if we can take you a step further. Last time I asked you, you know, from your book, you know, I, I said, where, did you enter the craft at any time? And you said, I can't answer that. Well, Eric Davis has commented publicly, and this is what he said. We couldn't understand the propulsion.
50:13 Jeremy Corbell? Lacatski went inside the UAP and they didn't find any energy source or propulsion system. So now that Dr. Eric Davis has publicly stated that, that you were inside this UFO, can you now expand on that? You know, were you in the craft you are describing?
50:32 Speaker 03 Oh, I can't expand on that. And going back to your question just before this, the reason I really have never, first of all, I've never been asked to testify, other than through indirectly through you.
50:45 Jeremy Corbell? Right.
50:46 Speaker 03 And I had a medical reason not to do it last month.
50:49 Jeremy Corbell? That's right.
50:50 Speaker 03 But the thing is, I can tell you a lot of what we're talking about real intelligence gathering from a variety of folks in these four books. It's not as exciting as some of the stories that I've seen. Even if they're just stories, they're not as exciting. But the senators and congressmen can have their staff read the book, summarize it, bullet points.
51:15 Jeremy Corbell? Okay, so you're not going to answer me if you were in the craft or not yourself?
51:19 Speaker 03 I can't, and I couldn't in front of Congress. I can do no more than what is in the books to them. And they have it in, they have it locked in. Believe me, it's the absolute truth with what is in the books.
51:30 Jeremy Corbell? I believe you, it's the truth. But why couldn't you tell Congress? I mean, what, they're not authorized for you to tell them?
51:42 Speaker 03 When you're brought into things, you're, I was once told for a particular clearance, I was to inform that agency and their legal team if I was ever asked to go to Congress.
51:59 Jeremy Corbell? Wow.
52:01 Speaker 03 In fact, I believe that was a standard question. Again, it's just, think about the, the, the program that has been tried to start up where people can be free to talk about things with no repercussions. Remember where your clearances come from. If DIA, if CIA, if the State Department, if NSA doesn't want you to have their clearance, they won't grant it. And it doesn't matter what Congress says, again, I'm speaking for myself, as to that, what goes on inside.
52:45 Speaker 03 I mean, there was someone in ASAP that was going to be denied a clearance. That person, male or female, was never going to be told.
53:00 Speaker 03 They weren't going to get the clearance, but they weren't going to be told. So you're
53:07 George Knapp? Here's what we hear in UFO world.
53:10 George Knapp? Come on whistleblowers, come forward and spill your guts. No one would dare prosecute you. You're telling the world about the truth about UFOs. They wouldn't dare prosecute you. So go ahead, put your life on the line, your career, your freedom, and spill the beans and we'll be behind you. What do you, what do you say to those folks?
53:29 Speaker 03 First of all, you don't work for the intelligence or Department of Defense. You don't work for them. It's easy to just, this isn't nice to say, but shoot off your mouth and, and say such things. But if they, if everyone who does that or who knows what the rules are, sits back for a moment and thinks, they can, they can, they can come to the same conclusion. And besides, uh, the first time I came on your show, I mentioned you can be sure, and I call them the enemy or listening to your show, you can be absolutely sure they are. Major intelligence gathering, there's,
54:14 Speaker 03 I forget what INT is. It's probably Newsint or something like that. One of the best sources of intelligence to direct your resources toward finding out more. Just,
54:31 Speaker 03 I wouldn't do it. People can do what they want to do and risk their careers, their paycheck, and their family's well-being. I don't see many of them doing it. And those that do do it are putting restrictions on.
54:51 Speaker 03 So, uh, the science, you know.
54:54 Jeremy Corbell? Let me ask you this about the, okay, so we've got a craft. Why won't Arrow admit that to the American public what you're allowed to admit? That we have a UFO in our possession and we've breached the hole. Arrow is running around saying all this crazy shit. Why won't they just admit that part to the American public?
55:13 Speaker 03 God to do.
55:15 Jeremy Corbell? It's what?
55:15 Speaker 03 They have been told, they've been told by higher ups that this is your job. There was.
55:22 Jeremy Corbell? What's their job? If you were to surprise, what's Arrow's job?
55:26 Speaker 03 Well, the thing is, I don't know. I'm not an assignee to, to Arrow, but I believe there, those are temporary positions.
55:35 Jeremy Corbell? Mm hmm.
55:36 Speaker 03 That they're assignees. Wow, if you're a signee and go off the rails. You're not coming back.
55:44 Jeremy Corbell? So, but I mean, they could just, they have to respond to your statement. They're talking about you and your programs in other interviews. So maybe Arrow can respond to this statement. Dr. James Katsky says we have a UFO and we breached the hole. That's a back engineering. We're interested in how it propels because it has no signs of normal propulsion. I'd like to hear Arrow respond to that because they say we have no evidence. No evidence? Dr. Katsky just told you.
56:07 Speaker 03 That's their, that's fine. That's their official answer. I mean, I, I saw people from the public asking for old classified documents in DIA. And I said, well, we're going through the effort of, of downgrading this.
56:22 Jeremy Corbell? Are they going to say you're lying? Like, is Arrow going to say you're lying? Are they gonna try to say you're lying?
56:27 Speaker 03 I would say that. I wouldn't say they're lying. I would say they're doing their job and that's their job. Counterintelligence is a job. It's a position.
56:37 Jeremy Corbell? Okay, so Arrow is counterintelligence.
56:41 Speaker 03 Well, I, I don't want to say that either.
56:43 Jeremy Corbell? You know, I just said it.
56:44 Speaker 03 They're, uh.
56:45 Jeremy Corbell? All right, George, George, I got it.
56:47 Speaker 03 They should be performing that function, don't they?
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57:15 Jeremy Corbell? George, I gotta try just on this topic because it was such important, it was so important to people. So I'm just gonna try.
57:22 Speaker 03 Well, I know it's important to people.
57:23 Jeremy Corbell? Okay, what did the craft, would the interior of the craft be similar to the exterior in that there was nothing really clear as far as control?
57:31 Speaker 03 I can't answer any more questions.
57:32 Jeremy Corbell? I figured.
57:33 Speaker 03 But you know something, you know something, something important, and I can't go any further than just saying this. I wouldn't be overly concerned. Whatever the answer is, I wouldn't be overly concerned.
57:48 Jeremy Corbell? This is the most exciting thing on, on planet Earth. What do you mean it wouldn't be overly concerned? I'm proportionately concerned.
57:56 Speaker 03 Is it?
57:58 Jeremy Corbell? This is one of the greatest mysteries.
57:58 Speaker 03 George gave a partial answer the other day. He's gonna have to think about it.
58:02 Jeremy Corbell? No, this is one of the greatest mysteries for me. That's why we're doing it. Okay, fine.
58:06 Speaker 03 Oh, I'm not saying that there isn't an answer or multiple answers. And I'm not saying people shouldn't be absolutely interested. I mean, I asked someone on the internet who was so angry about not being told, not from your podcast, but not being told the truth. And I asked him why, and he said, I've gotta know, I've gotta know. And I said, well, basically have a nice day, but don't be obsessed by this. I'm surprised for the many males that are in your audience, their girlfriends, wives don't say, what are you doing?
58:46 Jeremy Corbell? It's fine, we're all getting laid. Let's get back to the UFO. So you won't tell me what it looked like on the inside because you've taken an oath. Okay, but maybe you could tell me how we did not breach the hole. You said we breached the hole. Great. Maybe you could tell me how we did not, because my mind says, well, is it mental telepathy to open some porthole on the side of it? Or did we use like laser cutters? Can you just tell me how we did not breach the hole?
59:09 Speaker 03 No. You're relentless, aren't you?
59:12 Jeremy Corbell? I am.
59:13 Speaker 03 You're very good.
59:14 Jeremy Corbell? Was the craft landed, crashed, or gifted to us?
59:21 Jeremy Corbell? Come on, you won.
59:22 George Knapp? Do you know the answer to that?
59:27 Speaker 04 Next week, in part two of our interview with Dr. James Lekatsky.
59:30 George Knapp? Intelligence agencies and the Pentagon acknowledged there is a deadly, serious contest to figure out UFO technology before Russia or China do. Nevada Senator Harry Reid told us before his death that the race is real and that we'd better win it.
59:47 Jeremy Corbell? I mean, you basically ran the X-Files for the US government. I mean, it was, it was pretty wild. There were wild things that occurred, but you said it best. You said, "A study focused solely on UFOs, on various unknown nuts-and-bolts-type craft fluttering around in the skies over military bases and facilities would never get to the heart of a much larger and complicated mystery." And I think what you were trying to say to us is if you just think you're going to study UFOs, you're going to be smacked with reality. Reality is, the UFO phenomenon is just shrouded and covered with what you would call, I don't know the good word, abnormal aspects of reality.
1:00:28 Speaker 03 Yes, yes. That you've got to look much further than nuts and bolts. Now, can you study nuts and bolts and use it for a levitating craft would be tremendous. Doesn't have to be a fast craft, but a levitating airliner? Think about the, where it could go, everywhere in the world, it wouldn't need an airport.
1:00:53 Jeremy Corbell? But don't, don't you think we've already achieved that? Like, we hear about all these people on military bases seeing triangles, and you're doing this study, OSAP, to try to figure out the physics of how to do that. Do you think it's already been achieved by the US government? Or it hasn't? And that's why OSAP had a lot of value.
1:01:11 Speaker 03 It hasn't been achieved to its full extent.
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