How To Spot A Good Man with Toni Romiti

What really makes a “good man”—and why does it feel like they’re on the endangered species list? This week, we’re getting into it with self-proclaimed tomboy and viral truth-teller Toni Romiti, the voice behind “Don’t Talk to Boys” and “Men Ain’t Shit Except Mine,”. Toni gets real about losing her dad at 12, unpacking her own internalized misogyny, and the wake-up call that came after blacking out at one of her own shows. Plus, she shares how she finally found a love where she didn’t have to shrink herself, soften her edges, or play small just to be chosen—proof that the right kind of love will meet you exactly where you are, no edits required. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Keke Palmer?

  This episode is sponsored by Airbnb. If spring fever's got you feeling a little, and see, might I suggest booking an Airbnb for a change of scenery? Now, let's start the show.

• 0:16Keke Palmer?

  What's up, listeners? You know, there's been a lot of chatter lately about misogyny, how we're living in the culture that just can't seem to let women live without some nonsense. And even if you're not out here dealing with straight-up misogynists, there's this thing called internalized misogyny that we gotta check ourselves on. So, what do we do about it? And how do we even know who the good men or good people are versus the ones who we need to swerve on? Well, my guest today has an EP out called "Men Ain't Shit Except Mine", and honey, we're about to get into it. She's funny, she's real, and she's got a voice that's impossible to ignore. Her name's Toni Romiti. So, let's dive in, because, baby, this is Keke Palmer.

• 1:28Keke Palmer?

  Okay, so, yes, I was telling you Toni Romiti. I first discovered her on social media. She's been around for, I think, at least gotta be, if not 10 years, almost 10 years. And I remember her at the beginning of me even getting into social media when I was a teenager. Maybe I'm stretching it, but she's been doing it for a long time. She tours a lot. She just got married a few years back, maybe like, might have been more than that, because her baby is about 3, 4 years old. She's such a sweet mom. But she has this EP out called "Men Ain't Shit Except Mine". I feel like that's very Sharon-coded.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  Yes, I love that. She stole that from me.

• 2:01Keke Palmer?

  Shout outs to Larry.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  There you go, yes. That's so true, such a true statement.

• 2:07Keke Palmer?

  But I'm excited to talk to her kind of just about that project, the personal connection she has to it, but also just kind of how we're existing in this space of gender. It's so funny, we have so much gender nuance that's being invited in, but then also we're still...

• 2:22Speaker 01

  What does that mean, gender nuance?

• 2:24Keke Palmer?

  Like now we're in a place where people are talking about being non-binary or, you know, transitioning, like we're open to people...

• 2:32Speaker 01

  People not afraid to express that they have feminine and masculine traits.

• 2:36Keke Palmer?

  But at the same time, it's not. It's like fake. It's like we're being so progressive, but we're actually not being so progressive. Things are still

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:44Keke Palmer?

  being held to such extreme standards of what it should be, you know what I'm saying? And so I feel like with her, it's so awesome to see how she's expressed in her music. And then I think also just in what we see in her life, that there isn't that relationship between her and her partner. So I'm excited to talk to her about that, how she found that. And then also she grew up with a single dad. So I'm curious how that has impacted her outlook and everything like that. I always think it's about how you grew up, because for me, I always seen you and dad both taking

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:13Keke Palmer?

  the same roles. You know, dad was soul, he would cook, he would clean.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 3:18Keke Palmer?

  You know what I'm saying? You worked in the factory at some point, this factory.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  For a very short time, yeah. Yeah, that was backbreaking work. I just want to say to all the people that work at the factories and do factory jobs, and they're very necessary jobs for our country, but get some good shoes, you know, invest in some shoes with a good support, because my feet was killing me and I had to quit, so.

• 3:44Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  But, I mean, your dad was one of nine boys, okay? So when you're in a household of nine boys, I mean, it's only one mother, so they had to learn how to cook.

• 3:57Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  They had to learn how to sew, they had to learn how to do things for themselves. And you know, the first time I saw him hemming up his own pants, I was like, what are you doing? He's like, what do you mean? I said, what are you doing? He said, I'm about to hem my pants up. And I said, then what are you gonna do after you hem them up? He said, I'm gonna iron them to make sure that everything is good and they look good. I said, who taught you how to do that? He says, my mother. Didn't your mother teach you?

• 4:24Keke Palmer?

  I mean, he used to, first of all, not only would he sew my stuff back together, he would also always crease my pants when he wore my pants and stuff for school.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:33Keke Palmer?

  Always the best cook. Your food was way too salty. Me, we hated your food. Dad always cooked the best food. Um, you know, yeah, it's just, again, I did not really see all of this extreme gender role play. It was just like I had two loving parents that love each other that love us.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:49Keke Palmer?

  Um, but I'm, you know, I'm curious for you if you see a difference between how that plays out in my generation and your generation. Like, did you feel like misogyny or patriarchy or gender roles was like a big thing in the eighties? To talk about or discuss or?

• 5:06Speaker 01

  Well, I was, as you know, I was a singer, trying to write music, a songwriter. So misogyny was everywhere in the music industry. It was everywhere in the music industry. So all the stuff that's happening now with all the people and freak-offs and all that kind of stuff.

• 5:22Keke Palmer?

  Uh-oh.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  I'm not surprised at anything that's being said now because the climate in the eighties was really horrible for women.

• 5:32Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  It was so bad for women in music. I mean, it just was devastating to be in a recording studio and being talked down to, being told you were fat, being told you were not pretty enough, being told you were just not enough. And I don't know, you know, I didn't even experience that overt kind of pressure, but I felt it. You know, I felt it.

• 5:57Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, and I think it wasn't even just in the music business. I think it's just in general, that there's this concept of this, this, what is the word I'm looking for? This not properly distributed sense of power that plays in between genders. That is not always the case, but it's more often the case. And how people respond to that becomes very, very difficult. I mean, I think that's one of the reasons why we, you know, talk about internalized misogyny.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:21Keke Palmer?

  Where it's like, even women are doing it to each other.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's more women. I think, I think we as women are so hard on each other. Think we're so judgmental on each other. And, uh, you know, I knew when Hillary Clinton was running for president that she wouldn't win. And I knew she wouldn't win because of women. Everybody always wanna say it would have been the men, the men are not gonna vote for her. No, the women. They were hard on her. So, I, I just think we're so hard on each other, but, but.

• 6:52Keke Palmer?

  But I think it's because of that, right? I think it's the same thing when we talk about like racial stuff. It's, it's like, well, they're being racist towards you, so I don't wanna be a part of it because I don't want it to happen to me next. That's why a lot of times people don't speak up against that kinda thing. And I think it's the same thing when it comes to misogyny or, or just in general, like women being hated on. Well, I don't, I'd rather join the guys hating on you than experience them being angry with me. And that's obviously the concept we have around pick me. Because sometimes people just wanna survive it.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:23Keke Palmer?

  You know, and, and I don't, I don't know that I judge it. I don't wanna be a part of it, I don't appreciate it, but sometimes it's hard to stand up, folks.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  Well, growing up in the home that you grew up in, you know, what do you think that you benefited or maybe you didn't benefit? From being in a household where there were no roles, your father and I didn't have roles.

• 7:43Keke Palmer?

  I love that you said that. I think I benefited so much from knowing what it looks like to have a healthy partnership. Knowing what it looks like for a man to really like respect and love you. And also how my dad was, how my dad is, how my uncles were. What I experienced with those men was not reality, uh, across the board.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:05Keke Palmer?

  Um, they love and respect women. They love and respect their mother. And look, not all of them, you know, I have play, uncles that are players and stuff like that too. You know what I'm saying? Like I, you know, everybody not, yeah, everybody's not like that.

• 8:17Speaker 01

  Uncle Tony in heaven.

• 8:18Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, everybody's not like that. But you know, overall, they were respectful, they had some type of boundary, moral ethic, you know, especially to people they love. I mean nowadays, some people is cussing they own mama out, you know, they own sisters and stuff. And so I feel like I saw so much of what I didn't, I, I was naive, I think, growing up in the household that I grew up in. And the experience I had. And I even had dad tell me that a lot of times too, because you would give me advice on dating. And I remember by the time I was about twenty-three or twenty-four, I had finally asked dad and he said, don't listen to your mother. Because she don't know. I was the first guy that she dated and I, and I didn't screw her over.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:59Keke Palmer?

  But I could have. Your mom didn't know nothing about dating, she didn't have no crazy experiences. She met me and, you know, that was kinda it. And he really kinda gave me. He let me know finally that it's the twenty percent.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  What advice did he give you about guys?

• 9:13Keke Palmer?

  Well, just that, what I just said, just that they're not, that they are always trying to get you. That's really kind of it, he really genuinely said, was that so you can't really, it's not, because you would kind of sometimes try to say, "Oh, you know, it's because when they say, you know, you're the one for them," and you would say all these cliche stuff, like when they look you in your eyes, but guys, just somebody, I've had people look in my eyes, they don't mean they love me. You know what I'm saying? Just because somebody looks in your eye and say, "You're great," or "You're amazing," or that doesn't, so sometimes you would give advice like that, where it was like, we're in a movie, you know what I mean, where we're in Ghost. But Dad was like, that's not really what it's about. And really, when you actually do find somebody that you have a connection with,

• 9:56Keke Palmer?

  the greatest thing that you'll realize that maybe they're the right person is that you change.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:01Keke Palmer?

  The things that you used to get crazy about, or used to have anxiety over, or the things that used to concern you or worry you, or the things about yourself that maybe you didn't like as much, those things you start to change. It's almost, what it sounded like, if I could put it in my own words, was, they almost make you love yourself more. The way that they love you, the way that they see you, the way that they are enhancing and supporting your life, allows you to thrive in a way you weren't able to thrive before, that you didn't even know you needed to thrive before. And that's what actually helped me to start to make better choices and learn the kind of people that I wanted to be around, friendships, and people that I wanted to be romantically involved with. And obviously, you don't always get everything right, and everything is a learning process,

• 10:44Keke Palmer?

  but I think that's the big thing that, you know, he helped me with, is how somebody makes me treat me, is a bit, you know, how I've decided to go forward with that.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, he's a man, so he could tell you definitely from a man's perspective, more so than I can, so that was the benefit. Good that you had him to talk to.

• 11:01Keke Palmer?

  But that was definitely the hardest thing, is like, just the realization that the men that love me in my life are not the example of men in the world.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Everyone you're gonna meet in the world.

• 11:12Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, especially because I've always been, you know, I remember Dad used to make this joke, Kiki was my first boy, because you know, he always wanted a son. And he had L'Oreal, then me, and then y'all tried again for the twins and they end up getting, you know, my little brother Finker. But he used to always make that joke, well, he was my first boy, she was toughest, roughest, you know, all this type of stuff. I never realized that being, like, Dad always loved that about me. He always championed that and thought that was a cool thing about me.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  But when you came out, went out in the world, you realize it wasn't, uh, it wasn't a great thing.

• 11:43Keke Palmer?

  And sometimes people would rub up-

• 11:44Speaker 01

  People used it against you.

• 11:45Keke Palmer?

  That's right. They would rub up against me having what they would assume to be male qualities. And honestly, they aren't really male qualities, they're just like attributed that only men can have them. And like you said, when women have it, it's reversed. If I'm going to a situation, I'm extremely business or I'm stoic and I'm being plain and analytical, I'm apparently a heartless bitch. But when a man does it,

• 12:08Speaker 01

  He's smart, he's brilliant.

• 12:09Keke Palmer?

  Right. When I go into a situation and I'm being direct or I'm being assertive, I'm a asshole, I'm a jerk. But when a man does it, he's setting the record straight.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  Right, and if you go into a room and you act, you know, jovial or flighty or whatever, you're an airhead.

• 12:25Keke Palmer?

  Or if I'm extraordinarily ambitious, athletic, you know, mentally disciplined to the 10th power, I'm anal and I don't know how to have fun. But really, no, I just have something that I care about and I'm focused on and that's how I was raised and that's what was championing my household. I remember climbing the walls and Uncle Reggie then would be telling me, Ali Boum Baye, Ali Boum, you know what I mean? Like, they encouraged me to have all that stuff. So, yeah, I feel like that, that's a big shock and I think learning how to deal with how to function in life

• 12:58Keke Palmer?

  with the fact that people are going to try to tell you about you and, and not allow you to exist as you want to exist is definitely tough.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I, I came, my mother just always told me, you could do what you wanted to do, you know, always save money for a rainy day, have you a secret bank account. Those are the things my mother would tell me. Always have some money, you know, that you could get to that nobody knows about. And, uh, she basically, my mother was married three times, you know? And she basically said, you know, sometimes you can't trust people. As a woman, you're on your own sometimes. And that's the mentality that she grew up in, that she never felt like she had anyone that protected her.

• 13:44Keke Palmer?

  Do you feel like you parented me similar to the way that you were parented?

• 13:48Speaker 01

  Of course. I mean, that's all I did, all that, that's all I knew. I just hope as a parent, because I, Lord knows I wasn't perfect, but I hope that I've instilled in all my kids that fuck roles, just do what you want to do.

• 14:01Keke Palmer?

  That's right.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  You know, do what you want to do. If you want to, you know, be a gardener, be a gardener. If you want to, you know, whatever you want to do, do it and don't be concerned with people putting labels on them because people, you know, they put you in a box. It's up to you to get out the box.

• 14:18Keke Palmer?

  That's true, that's true. You know, e-every generation, they're moving forward, you know, how your mom raised you, how my mom raised me. And so, to that, I just want to say, I'm so glad that we do talk. You know what I mean? And like I said, I'm happy that people see us talking. Whether we're agreeing, whether we disagreeing, whether we're sharing perspectives that we didn't even know each other thought. It makes me really happy because that's how I learn, you know, and how I explore our relationship to a way that I know that I can continue to be just as good a mother to my child as you was to me. Well, let's see what Tony Rotimi has to say.

• 15:01Keke Palmer?

  Now, y'all know over here at Baby This is Keke Palmer, we like to keep things very classy, very zimmer. And thanks to Airbnb, you can have your very own spring break without any of the coed chaos. That's right. As a Virgo, I can be very particular about my vacations and crowded beaches and busy hotels simply do not fit into my fantasy. In the past, when I needed a break, I went straight for some peace and quiet. Whether it was a trailer in Joshua Tree or lakeside cabin up in Big Bear, Airbnb was always the first place I check when I'm trying to escape the drama. In the middle of nowhere, without all the hubbub, I was able to sit back, relax, and actually take a load off. So, if you're avoiding South Beach this spring, you should check into one of Airbnb's guest favorites.

• 15:45Keke Palmer?

  These are the most loved homes on Airbnb, and they got the ratings to prove it. Okay, you can find spots so luxe and off the beaten path, you'll forget spring break even exists. So, dish the drama, embrace the peace, and book the guest favorite home you've been eyeing on Airbnb. Trust me, your grown and sexy self deserves it.

• 16:06Keke Palmer?

  All right, y'all. My guest today is the definition of multi-talented. She's a singer, rapper, songwriter, and let's not forget, a former D1 basketball player. Yes, she was out there dunking on folks before she was dropping heads. If you don't know her yet, let me just say, you should become a fan, okay? She's got this vibe that's so real. I found out she's from Chicago, that explains it. And her latest EP, "Men Ain't Shit Except Mine," is, I mean, one of her hottest takes. Toni, what's up, girl?

• 16:37Speaker 02

  Thank you so much, Kiki.

• 16:38Keke Palmer?

  So I really wish that they heard we were talking about five minutes before, because guys, we were just going in about how we both from the Midwest. Illinois, Chi-town, what's good? She's from the West Side, I'm from Robbins, South Side.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:49Keke Palmer?

  And we're just talking about Chicago people. I mean, I feel like they're super real, you were saying that too, but also, we can be a little hustly.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel like people from Chicago, it's like, there's a lot of masculine energy.

• 17:02Keke Palmer?

  Okay, especially with us women, for sure. I mean, obviously with the men too, but you know what I'm saying? Like, I think it's different as us girls, we be like...

• 17:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:10Keke Palmer?

  What's good?

• 17:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's very much, yeah, a lot of masculine energy. But yeah, I think people who are from Chicago, because we have such southern roots as well, they're very sweet, hospitality, know how to cook.

• 17:21Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 17:22Speaker 02

  Chicago got the best food.

• 17:23Keke Palmer?

  Very much so, and I mean, New York's trying to come up behind us, but be quiet, y'all got that pizza.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  Wait, do you live in Chicago, or, I mean, not Chicago, do you live in New York?

• 17:31Keke Palmer?

  I do back and forth, New York and LA. I live in the valley in LA. When you were in LA too now?

• 17:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I live in Woodland Hills.

• 17:37Keke Palmer?

  Okay, yeah, we were actually quite close, over there in the valley. I think it's good for the babies.

• 17:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I like it.

• 17:41Keke Palmer?

  You know, they get a little more land.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  I like...

• 17:43Keke Palmer?

  No more space.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  I like it in my area.

• 17:45Keke Palmer?

  Um, we're both moms.

• 17:46Speaker 02

  I know.

• 17:46Keke Palmer?

  You were a mom first, because how old is your daughter?

• 17:49Speaker 02

  Um, she is three, she'll be four in March.

• 17:52Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, I gotta tell you, Toni, I started following you early on in your career. Like, I felt like soup in the beginning. I was like, I found you, you was making, you singing your songs online, that you would just have written 15 minutes before. And I was like, I love her.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:06Keke Palmer?

  But seeing you grow, seriously.

• 18:08Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 18:09Keke Palmer?

  And I didn't even know you was from the Midwest. But seeing you grow as an artist, and then also as a mom, it's been so awesome to see. I can see that you and your, I mean, your daughter, that's your girl.

• 18:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's amazing.

• 18:19Keke Palmer?

  I feel the same way about Leo, that's my boo.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, how old is he now?

• 18:22Keke Palmer?

  He's gonna be two in February. So it's coming up, girl, he's growing up fast. Do you want more kids?

• 18:27Speaker 02

  Uh, I wanna have one more, but I do think that like, the thing that I... I don't enjoy how quickly your body changes so drastically.

• 18:36Keke Palmer?

  Oh, girl.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  It's like, kind of like, gives me PTSD a little bit.

• 18:40Keke Palmer?

  No.

• 18:40Speaker 02

  When I see photos of myself, I'm like, who the fuck is that?

• 18:43Keke Palmer?

  Especially because, first of all, you're an athlete. And I'm not an athlete, but I have always had like an athletic mind. And I've always cared about like being on point and just, you know, being in my bag, so to speak.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:53Keke Palmer?

  So that, I don't think I realized until, maybe just recently, how much that affected me.

• 18:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:59Keke Palmer?

  That body changing and just like dealing with how to, and I've seen when you were posting your pictures, like, yo, this is what I, this is my trans. That transformation journey and to finally get back to you.

• 19:09Speaker 02

  It feels so good. You're like, I want to hold on to this. Hold on a second, please. Don't take me back to that place again.

• 19:15Keke Palmer?

  No, seriously.

• 19:17Speaker 02

  It's kind of, I think it's, I think it's very traumatic a little bit.

• 19:20Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:20Speaker 02

  And I don't think people, like, I, I feel like I have body dysmorphia in the weirdest way, like, I would see myself and then I would see a picture of myself. I'd be like, who is that?

• 19:30Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  Like, literally, the, the weight gain that I had in my face, like, I had so much acne on the side of my, towards the end of my pregnancy, when my siblings would call me, I would just be like, don't FaceTime me anymore. Because I don't want to look at myself.

• 19:41Keke Palmer?

  I felt the exact same way, and I felt like such a, I love that we're talking about this because when I gained so much weight after my, when I had my son, people had never really seen my body that way before. So people was like, oh damn, you know, you got booty.

• 19:52Speaker 02

  You did look really good. You did look really good.

• 19:55Keke Palmer?

  And so like, I loved it, but then deep down, it wasn't what I wanted for me.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:59Keke Palmer?

  And so that's kind of weird, right? It's like, oh, I'm glad that other people aren't calling me Shrek.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 20:04Keke Palmer?

  But I feel not happy.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:07Keke Palmer?

  You know, and so that, even that's difficult. Because then everybody keeps telling you, damn, you know, you're da, da, da, da. But you don't really feel like yourself, so I couldn't agree with you more about that, about that process. And, you know, yeah, I want more kids too, but figuring out how to like wrap my mind around like, you're about to go through the Olympics again.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. And also too, like, I feel when you're pregnant, one of my biggest fears, especially when I was younger, was just like,

• 20:32Speaker 02

  Going through an entire pregnancy and then like, God forbid, something bad happens at the end? Like, just going through all of that for like, you know, something bad to happen? So, um, yeah, that's something that I think about too. I mean, I did have a really good pregnancy last time.

• 20:46Keke Palmer?

  Me too.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  Did you have a good pregnancy?

• 20:47Keke Palmer?

  I did. I had a really good pregnancy. And what I mean by, let me go into details what I mean by really good pregnancy. I mean, ultimately physically I did, right? Like, my son was kicking. It wasn't too painful. It wasn't, he wasn't too heavy. It wasn't like throwing up or vomiting.

• 21:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:02Keke Palmer?

  But I think I was in more mental anguish than I realized as time went on. And now that I'm getting back to myself, I realize, oh.

• 21:09Speaker 02

  In hindsight, you can see.

• 21:10Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, that was a part of that process. But more or less, I felt like it was pretty positive. And so, I agree with you on the thoughts of like, would it be again?

• 21:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:19Keke Palmer?

  You know?

• 21:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. Especially too, like, my baby is so great.

• 21:22Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  I'm like, should we roll the dice? Like, what if they're not, what if the next one isn't like Lily? And I don't want to like, hold my next baby to a standard that they can't, you know, like, it hasn't happened yet.

• 21:34Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 21:35Speaker 02

  But it's like, Lily slept through the night from the moment she was born.

• 21:38Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, Lily.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  Like, she started talking super early.

• 21:40Keke Palmer?

  She's so smart.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  So me and Jacob kind of had a really good time with understanding and communicating with her early on.

• 21:45Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  You know, like, she would tell me when she was hungry. She would sign milk to me. She would like, tell me that she wanted, you know, like, wanted something. So, I could, I could communicate better with her. I'm just kind of nervous that if we have a second one, that second one's going to give us a run for our money.

• 21:59Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  And I'm just kind of like, nervous about it. But at the same time, I don't want my daughter to not have a sibling. Like, I do want her to be, you know, have somebody there.

• 22:07Keke Palmer?

  Especially with us working and being around. I mean, obviously, they got, you know, their dads or your mom. I don't know if your big family is involved. I know you were raised by your dad.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was.

• 22:16Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, wow. Because let me get, go to the beginning.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:19Keke Palmer?

  So you were raised by your dad, single dad. We don't hear about that often. I mean, sometimes, but it's not that.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  It's not common.

• 22:24Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, usually mostly single mom. So, what, where was your mom? And she wasn't involved?

• 22:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, it's so funny. Me and my boyfriend were literally just talking about this because you don't really meet. Like, I was, I was saying to him, I probably know like, four people my whole life who've, you know, had a similar situation to me. Um, but yeah, my dad, he was my guardian from like, I think I was like, around 14 months when my mom lost custody of us.

• 22:48Keke Palmer?

  Wow.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  But my mom is schizophrenic. She's still schizophrenic. I'm getting more comfortable talking about it publicly because I usually don't. Uh, my friend Shan actually like, Help me kind of get out of that, like, talk more publicly about it.

• 23:01Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 23:01Speaker 02

  It's making me kind of sad now, but.

• 23:04Keke Palmer?

  Well, take your time.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  I know, I don't want to cry, though. Um, but yeah, my mom wasn't a part of our lives growing up. Um, she still isn't. I don't really know her that well. I really haven't spent that much time with her. Um, yeah. My dad was our guardian and then when I was 12 years old, he passed away.

• 23:26Keke Palmer?

  Oh.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, and my sister Irma, who's like, she just turned 44, so she became our guardian then. So then she began to raise us. I have two other siblings.

• 23:39Keke Palmer?

  And y'all was all raised together?

• 23:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:41Keke Palmer?

  Wow. Now, what's your parents' background?

• 23:44Speaker 02

  Um, my mom is black and my dad is white.

• 23:46Keke Palmer?

  Wow. So I'm just curious, because obviously culturally and then growing up in the Midwest, maybe there's a lot of biracial families, but if you don't have

• 23:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:54Keke Palmer?

  the both sides, I wonder how that impacted you growing up with your white dad for that time you did and not having your mom's influence?

• 24:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, I feel like for us, because we grew up in this, like, really big apartment complex, and we also, um, we used to go to babysitter. I'm actually going back to Chicago for her birthday.

• 24:09Keke Palmer?

  Period.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  Her name's Mama T. Shout out to Mama T. Uh, she became my babysitter shortly after we moved with my dad. And she was this, she's got one arm. She's from Houston, Texas. Yeah, she's from, she was born that way.

• 24:24Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  And like, she's from Houston, Texas. She used to have, like, 12 kids in her apartment at a time.

• 24:31Keke Palmer?

  We all had that lady.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  And.

• 24:32Keke Palmer?

  We all had that lady. I mean, she had another arm, but you know what I'm saying? Like, we all had that one lady that like, who kids are these?

• 24:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, but she was our neighborhood babysitter and like, I had, like, I feel like I had the best of both worlds. Because it's like, I, all of the more influential women in my life that I had, they were black women.

• 24:51Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 24:52Speaker 02

  And so like, even my older sister, she's 15 years older than me, and she grew up more in the city. Like, she went to Whitney Young, so like.

• 25:00Keke Palmer?

  Whitney Young. Shout out Whitney.

• 25:02Speaker 02

  She was just a little bit more in tune with her blackness, I would say. So having her and then having my Mama T, having Beverly, which is Mama T's daughter, like, they were such positive women in my life. Like, to be honest, they loved on us so hard, and my dad, you know, short-lived, but like, I don't really feel like I missed out too much on having that kind of like. That nurturing, loving love that you need from a woman, like that, that, that motherly kind of love. Obviously, I didn't have that from my own mother, but yeah. So I guess to answer your question, like, I feel like I got the best of both worlds when it came to being biracial.

• 25:40Keke Palmer?

  Yep.

• 25:40Speaker 02

  Because I went to a more white high school, but my apartment complex was literally called Little Africa.

• 25:48Keke Palmer?

  Period.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  It's terrible, but that's literally terrible. But yeah, like, because it was so predominantly

• 25:55Keke Palmer?

  Black.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  Black, that's what the other people called our area.

• 25:58Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:59Speaker 02

  But I don't know, I had a really good time. My childhood was just, I had a really good childhood, I can't lie. It just sucked that those events happened the way that they did. But I really do believe I would not be who I am, where I am, anything, you know, if, if that stuff didn't happen to me.

• 26:15Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 26:15Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 26:16Keke Palmer?

  I feel the same way, and I love that outlook, because I think a lot of times people assume that your outlook on life is based off of, you know, if you've had all great experiences, but it's really how you choose to look at it.

• 26:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm really big on that. I'm really big on that. Like, I just think my sister Irma, my oldest sister, the one who raised us, like, she always instilled that in me from a really young age, just like having perspective. And yeah, I really feel like the things that she instilled in me, like, I still carry a lot to this day. And even just how, like, nurturing my sister was. Like, my sister cooks every holiday, she still does. She's an amazing cook. She's, she's so nurturing and, and all the things that she Yeah, all the things that she did and sacrificed for us, because she was 26 years old when she became our guardian. And like, she already had a five-year-old.

• 27:03Keke Palmer?

  Wow.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, so.

• 27:06Keke Palmer?

  Well, I mean, this explains why the EP is, you know, men ain't shit but mine, because the women in your life have really, I mean, light years. They can't compete, okay? They can't compete with the women.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 27:18Keke Palmer?

  I know you lost your dad early. You said about 14?

• 27:20Speaker 02

  I was 12.

• 27:21Keke Palmer?

  12, 12. What do you remember about him? You know, as a man in your life? It was your first image of, of having a relationship with a man.

• 27:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, my dad was amazing, to be honest. We, um, he put us in softball pretty early, so we were heavily involved in extracurricular stuff. I played on the softball team. I played on a basketball team. My, my softball team ended up being pretty good.

• 27:43Keke Palmer?

  That's why you had abs all your life.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  Yes, literally. Jumping on trampolines, doing all, I had a really good childhood. But my dad, um, I love, what I think about now in hindsight, when I think about my dad is more so like, the way that he spoke to me, the conversations that he had with me, when I think about it now. I can't believe he had those conversations with me the way that he did, but I, I respect it so much. Like, just the topic of conversation that he would talk about with me.

• 28:07Keke Palmer?

  What would he say?

• 28:08Speaker 02

  Like, I would ask him questions about our mom. Like, when was the first time that you realized that something was wrong with her? Or like, that she had...

• 28:14Keke Palmer?

  You were also a wise child.

• 28:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I had a lot of questions, but he never shied away from telling me. And, um, I just appreciated that more when I was older, because I'm like, damn, he looked at me not only as his child, but like, as a person who, who wants to know. I don't know, like, I just appreciate that he spoke to me the way that he did. And like, and he was very present. My dad never missed any of our games. He was always on time. He instilled a lot about being on time in me and like, caring about other people's time. And he was really amazing. He really was.

• 28:47Keke Palmer?

  What was the next close or intimate relationship that you had with a male? I don't know if it would have been a peer. Was there an uncle? Was there, what then was your relationship with men after that?

• 28:58Speaker 02

  Later on in my high school career, I started playing basketball for a travel team called Chicago Hoops Express. And, um, my head coach there, Gerald Davis, shout out to J D. He's like, more of someone who became like a father figure to me.

• 29:14Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  But that was a couple of years after my dad passed. But he's amazing. He makes time to come visit me once a year. Um, he's really thoughtful and I appreciate him very much. He's someone that I can call when I need an honest opinion.

• 29:28Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:29Speaker 02

  Um, he also, when I was going through it, when I was deciding to drop out of college, when I was playing basketball or to pursue music full-time, he was the one who really supported my decision no matter what. But my sister Irma, I always tell people, she said this. My sister Irma, she's a Capricorn.

• 29:48Keke Palmer?

  Okay, they're real.

• 29:48Speaker 02

  She said, "You gonna drop, "You gonna drop out of college and give up a full scholarship because a couple motherfuckers like your music?" That's how she said it to me.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  And I said, "Yep, that's exactly what I'm about to do."

• 30:02Keke Palmer?

  What does she say now? I mean, because obviously you're so successful.

• 30:05Speaker 02

  She's super proud of me, um, but I understand now more too, obviously. I'm an Aries, so I'm gonna just do what I want to do.

• 30:11Keke Palmer?

  Aries are so hard-headed. My nieces are Aries and y'all are too much.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  I'm gonna do what I want to do.

• 30:17Keke Palmer?

  But y'all really do be getting it done though, but y'all are very much extra.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  Yes, I'm very headstrong and I've always been that way. I also had really bad FOMO growing up. Like, if there was a party, I had to be there. Like, if there was a party on the weekend and I'm not there, I'm having a mental breakdown. Like, literally, my sister one time, like, put me on punishment and took my phone. I literally had like,

• 30:41Keke Palmer?

  I hated the taking the phone shit. I'd rather get a whooping anyway.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  I was like banging on the wall crying and shit, like, what is wrong with me?

• 30:48Keke Palmer?

  No, girl, I just,

• 30:49Speaker 02

  She's like, "That's why you don't need that damn phone."

• 30:51Keke Palmer?

  I felt like that was the most excruciating pain that they could put us through. Taking my phone? What's wrong with you?

• 30:57Speaker 02

  There's people texting me about going out. It's Friday and I hate, I hate, oh, and I just know there's gotta be a Chicago people thing.

• 31:05Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my God.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  Or maybe just a black parent thing, but then, my sister Irma loved to be like,

• 31:11Speaker 02

  "You just went out yesterday, why you gotta go out today?"

• 31:13Keke Palmer?

  Because that's life.

• 31:14Speaker 02

  Because there's something else going on tonight.

• 31:16Keke Palmer?

  There's life to life.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  You asshole.

• 31:23Keke Palmer?

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• 32:08Keke Palmer?

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• 32:38Keke Palmer?

  The EP is called "Men Ain't Shit Except Mine."

• 32:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 32:42Keke Palmer?

  And I want to know, why did you, what inspired you to write it? Because, I mean, really, men ain't shit. You know what I'm saying? But, obviously, it must came from a particularly personal place.

• 32:54Speaker 02

  Well, it's a combination of reasons. So like, my music, I would say, for the most part, like, shits on men.

• 33:01Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 33:01Speaker 02

  Which is fun, because I like writing arrogant love songs. Like, that's what I call them. I love to, obviously, make women feel like they're the shit, you know? Like, I want them to feel confident. Like, my biggest goal when I was younger, when I first started songwriting, was like, I didn't want people to ever feel like they were alone. Like, that, you know, that sounds cheesy, but, you know, that, my young, my young brain, that's what I was thinking about. So, because my music has always been like that, I just felt like music is sometimes one of those things that, like, it has to pertain kind of to your real life. Like, to sell the story, or for people to actually, it's hard. It's like, it's not like an author. If you write murder mystery books, people don't think you're a secret murderer.

• 33:38Keke Palmer?

  That's right.

• 33:39Speaker 02

  You know? But like, when you're a songwriter, people resonate more with the lyrics when they think that it's actually happening to you. That's why people be like, "Oh, I hope that so-and-so breaks Drake's heart, so he can give us a new album." Whatever the case may be. So... Yeah, I just think music is one of those things. And so because I have been in such an amazing relationship the last seven years, going on seven years this February, I just wanted to write something that resonated more with my actual life. Because I can write arrogant shit-talking songs all day. Like, that's fun, you know? But I just feel like music hits more when people, when it's actually what you're going through at the time. And even when it comes to writing it, I feel like when you're actually going through it, it becomes easier to even write the songs.

• 34:24Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:25Speaker 02

  And so I just wanted to tap more into that. But yeah, I just thought the title would be funny.

• 34:30Keke Palmer?

  So would you say the music is really reflective of how you feel you should be treated? Or how, obviously for you, you are being treated to those that are your fans that have been listening to it? Or is it more of an exploration of like, what you shouldn't be treated like?

• 34:43Speaker 02

  The trick, that's the trickiest question. Ah, no. I guess for me, why I chose the title is more so like, because I always make music that's talking shit about men, I wanted to make a love song project and kind of make it fu- like, it was more like a funny

• 34:59Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  thing to me, more so than anything. Because I have my album before this is called Don't Talk to Boys.

• 35:04Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 35:04Speaker 02

  And then when I wear my merch or something, people will be like, "Oh, don't talk to boys." But you, like, you're with Jacob. Like, they try to be funny, make up something. And I'm like, "Yeah, I'm not saying don't talk to boys. I'm saying talk to emotionally mature men."

• 35:15Keke Palmer?

  That's right, that's right, yeah.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  Um, Men Ain't Shit Except Mine is more so just kind of being like, this is a, this is love songs about my man. I, I can agree with you that men suck, but not this one. And so these are my songs for, for him, but...

• 35:29Keke Palmer?

  Ah, and I love that you said it, because we all get so caught up in the men ain't shit, don't talk to boys. But I love your explanation of the title, Don't Talk to Boys, because, yeah, don't talk to boys, talk to men.

• 35:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:39Keke Palmer?

  Men Ain't Shit Except Mine, because there is a man out there that will love you. Like, like, "Yeah, yeah, ha, ha, ha," that's what we saying. But let's evolve, ladies.

• 35:46Speaker 02

  That's what I'm saying.

• 35:46Keke Palmer?

  And let's get into, yeah, exactly, that's what I'm saying, exactly. Yeah, you ate that.

• 35:50Speaker 02

  Like, at my, at my shows, like, because like, I, I do, like, when I perform live, I'm not the best dancer. So when I, my overcompensation for that is, how can I entertain them in some other way? So I try to do like little comedy bits in between.

• 36:03Keke Palmer?

  Oh, but I live for a comedy moment.

• 36:05Speaker 02

  Like, little silly shit. Like, I'll just say a little random stuff in between. And then I say something like that. I'm like, "Get him, bestie, we're getting healed."

• 36:11Keke Palmer?

  That's right, though.

• 36:14Speaker 02

  Like...

• 36:14Keke Palmer?

  We can't stay on the same drum.

• 36:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, come on, yeah.

• 36:17Keke Palmer?

  No, girl, that man ain't. You, it's who you messing with. You need to upgrade your men ain't shit detector.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. Exactly, so I'm trying to just, yeah, have it just resonate more with my actual life, but still stay true to myself and be a little funny with it.

• 36:32Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 36:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, just.

• 36:32Keke Palmer?

  So let's talk about that. I mean, what do you define, obviously, we're in a very, I hate to say we're in a very misogynistic culture, because I mean, patriarchy has been going on since before any of us was alive. Like, there's always going to be things that people think you should be because of your sex, gender, but race, but all this other bullshit. But how do we, it's hard to meet people. Everybody's not outside, even though we was outside as kids, we in house now, online. Well, how do we find, what are the, what are the things that make a man a good man? Because you know, ain't nobody perfect. But what, what, what is, what in your mind, what are those things? Seven year relationship, that's a long time, y'all got together.

• 37:09Speaker 02

  I guess for me, it's like, me and Jacob, it never felt forced for me. Like, I never felt like I was overcompensating. I felt like the energy that I was giving, because I told myself, like, at this point, um, it sounds like I was in my brain older, but I was 22 at the time when I met Jacob, but I had two other relationships that I had that were more serious before, and they both gave me two different things. One of it was more like physically abusive, and the other one was more emotionally abusive.

• 37:44Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  And so I feel like I told myself, okay, this next time around, I'm gonna be unapologetically myself. I'm gonna love so hard, and if he loves me back, great. If he doesn't, I tried my best. And so I went into it with that mindset, and lucky me, Jacob liked me so much the same. And so it just felt so seamless, I guess. It didn't feel forced at all. And, um, for me, I, I like when someone has confidence but isn't overcompensating when they go places. I can't explain it. I don't really like, like Jacob.

• 38:26Keke Palmer?

  Putting on, people putting on, yeah.

• 38:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, I, I love that Jacob was so calm and cool and collected, and I love the way that he carries himself. He's very, just so chill. I can't explain it. He's very calm and.

• 38:41Speaker 02

  He has a lot of, I don't know, he has a lot of amazing thoughts, but he doesn't overdo it. He just, he's very chill.

• 38:49Keke Palmer?

  I think a lot of times, you know, because of the patriarchy or misogyny, whatever, you know, we call it and stuff like that. I do think sometimes it puts this pressure on guys to walk into the room and be these caricatures of what a man is. You know, where it's like, the masculinity is toxic, it's not based off of, I don't think masculinity is exactly attributes. I feel like it's simplicity, I feel like it's a little bit more abstract than that, than what we make it as people. And so that's why I wanted to ask too, you said before, I always write songs that make women feel like they're the dominant ones. And I really relate to that. And I feel like sometimes it can be hard in relationships because of the image of guys think that they have to be when they meet a woman like myself, or even like my mom.

• 39:30Keke Palmer?

  Like, you said it earlier too, I don't know if we, it was before we started the show, but like, women from Chicago are tough.

• 39:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:36Keke Palmer?

  Like, we, when it get down, we, you know, we are dominant and assertive, but we're still women at the end of the day. We still want to be hugged, loved, cuddled. Calm me down with gentleness. Don't cut me out, boy.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  That is actually something that me and Jacob do struggle with. No joke, no joke, is like me, because I'm also like, I'm kind of a tomboy. Not even kind of, I am, I'm a tomboy.

• 39:56Keke Palmer?

  Me too.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  You know, like, I do have a smart mouth, like, I can say some bad things, but I'm, I'm working on it. I'm working on it, but definitely me and Jacob, him getting used to that little bit of Chicago in me. He, yeah, it's taking some adjusting, because I've said some crazy shit.

• 40:16Keke Palmer?

  I know, I feel like, but I think that, in my mind, like, I think that is, like, as a man, like, yeah, like, I don't want to say reel me in, because don't reel me in, you'll get popped.

• 40:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:25Keke Palmer?

  But, you know, handle me. If you can handle me.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:29Keke Palmer?

  You know, like, deal with it with peace. Because I feel like that's what I saw with my dad growing up. Like, my dad never, like, banged on my mom. Like, when she would get crazy, like, you're not going to disrespect me. And, you know, he would give her a real good silent read.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:41Keke Palmer?

  You know what I mean? And it would be just so calming. She'll be checked. You know what I mean? It was like, cool to see, was no, he wasn't performing this thing of. Of, you know, reacting to her emotions. Cause I think that's all that it is at the end of the day, like whether I'm a tomboy, I'm being tough, like I'm just emotional. If I'm screaming and it, you know, there's no tears coming out and I'm screaming and angry, I'm hurt. And so, help me.

• 41:05Keke Palmer?

  You can't fight fire with fire. And I think it takes a real man to be able to do that.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, sometimes that's definitely me and Jacob's issue, cause he's a Leo and I'm Aries.

• 41:15Keke Palmer?

  It's actually a very perfect match. Leo Aries is the one of the most perfect astrological matches.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  Yes, I definitely feel that.

• 41:23Keke Palmer?

  Now, you've also talked about internalized misogyny, which I think is a really good thing to like always remind ourselves as women. Because again, it becomes this thing where everybody's like, men are, men are, men are, but it's like.

• 41:35Keke Palmer?

  Men may be misogynist things too. So I'm curious of what your experience has been with that, not even necessarily with other women, but I mean, maybe other women, but also with yourself, like. Having to, you know, feel that and know how to respond to the world in this way.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel like when I was pregnant the first time with Lily, when I was finding out what the gender was, I wanted to have a boy first because of my. Internalized misogyny, like I was scared, one, like I'm such a tomboy, will I be able to raise a girl in the way that society deems feminine? Like, I don't know, I was nervous about that. And then secondly, I was like, I know what it's like to be a girl, it kind of stinks a little bit sometimes. Do I want to have to raise someone who's gonna have to go through so many similar experiences? And someone who is just by nature more vulnerable in society.

• 42:22Speaker 02

  It just kind of made me a little bit scared. So I guess that's kind of my, and I obviously have dealt with my own internalized misogyny in many other ways as well. But I can't lie, I feel like a lot of girls who play sports tend to be a little bit less misogynistic in a way. Like I feel like because you are. Almost forced to get along with women and see the good in each other and be teammates and been like, you know.

• 42:47Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. And already not fitting the norm.

• 42:49Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 42:50Keke Palmer?

  You know, I mean, like, I've often felt like that. I've always been into glam and stuff like that, but I've also always been very tough and like, have, again, attributes that people would assume that only a guy could have. And I think for me, my internalized misogyny would come when I realized that I received pushback on that. And that started to happen more as I got older and I started talking.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:08Keke Palmer?

  Having opinions, sharing my ideas, showing that I'm not just the girl next door.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:13Keke Palmer?

  And learning how to deal with that was very difficult. I even recently was talking to my friend about it as I started really focusing on going to the gym.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:19Keke Palmer?

  And I feel like I would have these moments in my life where I would periodically be super into working out and then for whatever reason, I would fall off. And it could be for any reason. Oh, I just got tired of the diet or, you know, oh, I didn't have enough time, whatever. But when I started to talk to her and really get into the conversation, I realized that I'm afraid of to be strong.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:38Keke Palmer?

  I'm afraid that, you know, because I have broad shoulders. I was like, oh shit, I don't want to do too much of the weight training because I don't want to be, yeah, I don't want to be too strong. And I don't, but why, why, why can't I be strong?

• 43:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:50Keke Palmer?

  You know, why, if that's what I really want to be deep down inside, like, let me be strong. And so I've, I've really worked hard, literally in the last couple of months, like, don't be afraid of what your body do. If you look strong and you want to be strong, be strong. That doesn't, you don't have to internalize.

• 44:05Speaker 02

  Trust me, I've, I've gone, I've gone through that. And my daughter recently has been saying to me, I just told my friend Allie, when I've been taking my shirt off in front of her, like if I'm getting out of the shower or something and she sees me without my shirt on, she goes, mommy, you look like a man.

• 44:20Speaker 02

  And I'm like, alright, now my, now even my own daughter is saying it. And I'm like, why, I'm like, why are you saying that? And she's like, because you don't have a shirt on. And I was like, okay. And she's like, you don't have a shirt on. You look like a man. And I was like, okay. Thank you. I'm like checklist. My daughter calls me a man too.

• 44:36Keke Palmer?

  Oh my god, that.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  I've been calling, no joke, when I was, I'm like swallowing spit from that. When I was a little girl and I used to be in my big apartment complex and people would come up to me. I'm like, you know, my name's Tony too, so that doesn't help. And I'm such a little tomboy. I used to wear my hair with a slicked back ponytail, straight to the back, like tight as hell. And people used to come up to me and they'd be like, "Is you a girl or a boy?"

• 44:59Keke Palmer?

  "Is you a girl or a boy?" It's so Chicago. They love doing that. They did it to my cousin, all my cousin Buddha. He's a boy. And they're like, "Is he a girl or is he a boy? Is he a boy or a girl?" They always doing that.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  "Is you a girl or is you a boy?" And I'd be like, "I'm a girl." And they're like, "Can you sing some for us? Can you sing some?"

• 45:18Keke Palmer?

  Oh my god.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  I used to be like, "A, B, C." It's easy. It's literally, they make me sing on the spot.

• 45:24Keke Palmer?

  I'm howling. That's so, I love those memories. I feel like we grew up in the same kind of environment that I grew up. And I think Illinois, and I do feel like the Midwest in general, like even the surrounding areas, Detroit, Indiana, et cetera, like there's such a deep sense of community. And I don't know if it's just because of the great migration.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I think.

• 45:42Keke Palmer?

  You know what I'm saying? That's southern, like you said. But we all find our home, you know, in our community some way, somehow.

• 45:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:48Keke Palmer?

  Um, going back to the love piece, and obviously your relationship, seven years, congratulations again on that. It's really not easy to, you know, make something last.

• 45:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:58Keke Palmer?

  I feel like it takes a lot of growing up to do.

• 46:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:00Keke Palmer?

  Um, what advice would you give, you know, whether it be for the male partner or the them, they, girl, whoever you're into? What is the advice on finding love and cultivating it? Because I really think that's what it is, right? Cultivating a good relationship in this generation. Because we can look at the old heads and we like, "Oh yeah, y'all did it." But like, right now it's so different.

• 46:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, damn, that's a hard question. I guess it would just be more about really, really being your authentic self and putting yourself out there, pushing past those parts where you're uncomfortable.

• 46:37Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 46:38Speaker 02

  And really putting yourself out there and seeing what type of people you attract. And if you are genuinely being your authentic self, hopefully that attracts someone that, you know, is good for you in that way. But I also think too, a lot of people have a hard time, like what you were saying, when it comes to emotions and how a lot of our emotions, we think those are just the surface level ones. And there's so much more underneath what actually we're feeling. And until people are ready enough to be honest with themselves and like...

• 47:13Speaker 02

  Really own up to how they're feeling and not just staying at the surface of, oh, I'm upset. And it's like, well, why are you upset? Oh, because I just don't feel like having to talk about it. And it's like, being able to actually get to the root, the real feeling. Are you, you know, embarrassed? Are you ashamed? Do you feel guilty?

• 47:31Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 47:31Speaker 02

  Are you afraid?

• 47:32Keke Palmer?

  Admitting the tough things.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, really being honest with yourself. You're not gonna get anywhere.

• 47:38Keke Palmer?

  In both people.

• 47:38Speaker 02

  In both people. And also too, like, something that Jacob's mom says to us a lot is like, no one is really right or wrong. It's just an opinion. And you have to really like, that's, it's hard for me because, you know, I'm airy. So I know what I know. And it's hard, it's hard for me. So I, um, yeah, sometimes I do just have to take a step back. And a question that I do a lot for myself, when me and my, my boyfriend get into it, is like, I ask myself, is this enough for me not to be with him? And if the question, I mean, if the answer is no, then you need to just get the fuck over it. Because what are you, holding on to it only makes you more upset?

• 48:19Speaker 02

  And if you wanna be in something, give it everything you got or don't fucking do it.

• 48:24Keke Palmer?

  Couple of those things you, I mean, all the things you said.

• 48:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:26Keke Palmer?

  Amazing and spoke to me specifically was, you know, just bu- building a bridge and getting over it. I think I've always struggled with that. Even my dad used to tell me when I was a kid, you hold grudges, you hold grudges. You know what I mean? That's not good for you. You know what I'm saying? Like, having this idea that somebody is going to be perfect or they're never gonna hurt you. Like, the concept of forgiveness, like, you really have to do it if you ever wanna love somebody.

• 48:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:49Keke Palmer?

  You know, if you ever want a person in your life, which I think is probably the big question that we need to ask ourselves most going into a relationship. And not judging other people for forgiving and loving. Because I think that is a part of commitment that I had to really accept. Like, if I, if I do want a relationship and I wanna be with somebody long-term, they're gonna hurt me.

• 49:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:08Keke Palmer?

  I might be like Michelle Obama, hate his ass for 10 years.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:11Keke Palmer?

  You know what I mean? But I'm gonna stick through it because ultimately, to your other point, is it enough for me to walk away?

• 49:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're still there, then enjoy yourself.

• 49:19Keke Palmer?

  And those are, oh yeah, enjoy yourself. Or be mad for the day and then get over it.

• 49:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:24Keke Palmer?

  You know what I mean?

• 49:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just don't think it's worth it. And I'm saying it's not worth it for you. You're not forgiving them for them. You're forgiving them for you. You wanna be with them. Then let it go and enjoy yourself. Like even when it comes to like, when I first with Jacob, I had some pretty bad abandonment issues, obviously. I've gotten better with him. Like when he, he's the type of person sometimes where if he gets really upset, he needs space and he needs time and he needs to gather his thoughts because he gets too flustered and he can't have a conversation that's productive. But for me in the beginning, it was like, where the, like, where are you going? Why are you, don't do that. Like, we need to finish this. Like, let's have the conversation. And it wasn't, yeah, until his mom just like straight up told me, like, you know, he, he needs time and he will come back and, and you just have to let go, Tony. And if he doesn't come back, it doesn't matter.

• 50:10Speaker 02

  And I, and like, once I actually let go of that, of like, if he wants to be with me, he will. It just gave me so much more peace of mind and like, less, yeah.

• 50:20Keke Palmer?

  That's really tough. But when I went through everything with my son's father and, you know, it was like, I got to let go. You know, it's, you know, things happen, get to a boiling point, you realize, this goes further, it's too much.

• 50:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:32Keke Palmer?

  In the midst of that letting go, I got to the other side of what you just said, which is that that, that's why things got bad. You know what I'm saying? That's why things get bad. It's because you keep on.

• 50:43Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah, yeah.

• 50:45Keke Palmer?

  And it's like, let this shit go.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:47Keke Palmer?

  And once that let go, I realized that, oh, I'm fine. It's actually not, I didn't have to do, like, it didn't, like, oh, my gosh, I wish I had let go sooner.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 50:58Keke Palmer?

  Because now that's what has.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  I have clarity. I'm not so damn stressed out.

• 51:01Keke Palmer?

  I'm not so stressed out. And also, oh, wait a minute, I should have always been putting me first.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:08Keke Palmer?

  And I think that happens. And I don't want to say just as a woman, because I think guys too. I think in general, when you fall in love with somebody, you love that person just so damn much, it gets to the point where y'all just overly codependent. Like, you need me to make you happy, I need you to make me happy. And now we in this cycle because we don't have the maturity to know that you're not supposed to make me happy.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 51:26Keke Palmer?

  I love falling in love with you and I love this feeling that we have, but like, you're your own person.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:31Keke Palmer?

  If you need to take a walk, I need to let you take a walk.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  Exactly. It's not personal.

• 51:34Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. And that's, that is so.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, because we internalize, like, if our partner, if our, our partner doesn't say good morning a certain way, then you're like, oh, let me tell you something that also Jacob's mom said to me that really helped me in the beginning.

• 51:48Keke Palmer?

  I love that you and the mama are, are vibes out because some of the mamas.

• 51:51Speaker 02

  She's awesome. That's one thing I will say is, that I preach about her is, she allows me to. Get my shit off and tell her the truth and tell her my truth and get, you know, let her know when something, you know, not doing well. And she will give me unbiased opinions and she'll be truthful and like she doesn't protect Jacob. And I just appreciate that about her because.

• 52:15Keke Palmer?

  She creates a safe space.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's different because I can't go to my sisters every time you and Jacob get into it and now they're looking at Jacob different, you know, it's like, I don't want that to be, you know, that adds a whole nother fucking layer of annoying things to the equation.

• 52:28Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, because now we back and we against y'all.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. God damn it, I'm sorry.

• 52:33Keke Palmer?

  Now we gotta come, but it's banging, no.

• 52:36Speaker 02

  Literally, so.

• 52:38Keke Palmer?

  You, um, what was I gonna say? Oh, oh, oh.

• 52:41Speaker 02

  No, let me say that, yeah, because I think you'll like this. So, um, it was a point where we were going back and forth and I just kept saying, ah, I feel like he just wants to be in control of everything. And then Jacob's mom said, now flip that around and say that about yourself. Say, I want to be in control of everything. And I said, damn, okay, I want to be in control of everything. And when I said that shit, it all clicked. It was like, damn, wait a minute. He doesn't want to be in control. I want to be in control. I'm mad that he's not letting me control it.

• 53:10Keke Palmer?

  And I think it's even, and I think it even goes further than that.

• 53:13Speaker 02

  I'm the controlling one.

• 53:14Keke Palmer?

  And I think it even goes further than that. It's like, I want to be in control because I don't feel safe.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:20Keke Palmer?

  Because I'm scared, I've been abandoned. Like you said, like, I like when you were, we were talking about, like, it's always more and more and more, because a lot of times people don't want to admit that.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 53:28Keke Palmer?

  I'm controlling things because on the surface that sounds like I'm a tyrant, but actually, no, I want to control things because I have really bad anxiety.

• 53:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:36Keke Palmer?

  I have mental issues and it stresses me out when I don't know what's coming next. I'm actually blown away by the whole human experience and I didn't ask to come here. God extended my contract, you know what I mean? And so it's like, I feel the same way because I, I'm type A. I'm not type A because I think it's so cool. I'm type A because that's.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  Because you're a Virgo.

• 53:57Keke Palmer?

  That too, Summer Baby. But you know, I'm type A because that makes me feel safe.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:04Keke Palmer?

  And so it's not, you know, in love, in relationships, friendships, shit, even with my parents and stuff, like, learning how to, like, everybody has, there's a learning curve where everybody has to deal with each other. And I think for me, with, with that piece is so big, because it's like, I'm that way because that's what helps me with life. But it's not always, it's great for work, okay?

• 54:22Speaker 02

  Love that for you.

• 54:23Keke Palmer?

  But it's not conducive always in relationships. I've really had to learn that.

• 54:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:30Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. Uh, now, before you put this EP out, you went on like a four-year hiatus. What was, you know, I mean, I'm sure maybe it had to do with, obviously, you becoming a mom and all that type of stuff, but I want to know what was going on through your mind at that time and if you ever thought, if you were even gonna come back to music or...

• 54:45Speaker 02

  Um, well, yeah, taking the break, I enjoyed it very much because I was just super heavily focused on, you know, like, being a mom and letting Lily grow inside my body. And I was pregnant during the pandemic, so that was actually, it was bad, but it was good. I enjoyed not having to see a lot of people and stuff, bad because I wasn't doing absolutely shit. And my, I just got so big, like, I got up to like 205 pounds, I'm usually like 135.

• 55:09Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  And so, yeah, after I had Lily, I ended up tearing my Achilles.

• 55:15Keke Palmer?

  Oh.

• 55:16Speaker 02

  Trying to play basketball again too soon, because I was like trying to lose weight, I was four months postpartum. And that was probably my internalized misogyny right there, beating my ass.

• 55:24Keke Palmer?

  Okay, I gotta be...

• 55:24Speaker 02

  I gotta get it, I gotta get it. I gotta lose weight, because I'm playing hard-ass defense on a 17-year-old. Backdoor cut, tear my Achilles wide open, completely just ruptured it.

• 55:34Keke Palmer?

  Yo.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  Never had surgery before, had to get surgery like the next week. Literally couldn't walk for six weeks, couldn't run for like eight months.

• 55:44Keke Palmer?

  I know you were literally devastated.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  Oh my God, I was so annoyed.

• 55:48Keke Palmer?

  I can't move.

• 55:48Speaker 02

  I was like, ah, I was like, no, now I'm really about to do that.

• 55:52Keke Palmer?

  Now, I've actually got to do the diet. And I would nurse it. I'm like, I'll work it off.

• 55:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then, and then I was nursing, so people like say, oh, nursing, um, makes you burn calories. Yeah, but you're also eating for two. So it's like, you're damn near still eating like you're pregnant. But once I stopped nursing, um, after two years, and then once I stopped...

• 56:13Keke Palmer?

  Good for you, by the way. It's not easy.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  Man, I'm telling you.

• 56:15Keke Palmer?

  That nursing is a job.

• 56:17Speaker 02

  Man, I tell people all the time, if I had to go to actual 9 to 5, you wouldn't be getting no goddamn liquid gold from me.

• 56:22Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 56:22Speaker 02

  Because that... It is such a luxury to be able to nurse. And I tell my friends all the time that are new, like moms, do not feel bad about not nursing for a long time. If you can't do it, if you have to go to work every day, like, don't shame yourself. Like, that shit is so taxing.

• 56:40Keke Palmer?

  It is.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  It's so tiring.

• 56:41Keke Palmer?

  The pumping.

• 56:41Speaker 02

  Everything about it.

• 56:42Keke Palmer?

  I mean, I cried a lot.

• 56:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:44Keke Palmer?

  I mean, I cried a lot, because you just want to know that the baby's okay. But then you're not okay.

• 56:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was a lot.

• 56:50Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 56:50Speaker 02

  I don't even know how I got to that.

• 56:52Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, we were just talking about the hiatus. Why you went?

• 56:53Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 56:54Keke Palmer?

  And so then, I guess it's like, how'd you get back? Like, when did you realize, like, I have something I want to talk about and say? I mean...

• 57:00Speaker 02

  Uh, honestly, to be honest, I had the concept for the Men Ain't Should Except Mine back um, around when I was gonna do Don't Talk to Boys. But back then, I've, yeah, I had it like around that time, but I just thought that people wanted to hear more of, you know, my typical music that they expect from me. But I just felt like I've matured as a person. I wanted to put something out that was more resonating again with my current life. And, um, also too, I, I started touring again last year. Oh, you know, um, we're at the same booking agent. This is crazy, actually.

• 57:33Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh!

• 57:33Speaker 02

  I literally typed in on Go- on Google, um, black-owned booking agencies in Los Angeles, and then, um, Breakpoint came up, and then I saw you on there, and I was like, oh, they, they, they have Kiki, okay, they, they're legit.

• 57:44Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, I love that!

• 57:46Speaker 02

  And then I emailed them, and I just like said, hey, you know, my name's Tony Romiti, I haven't toured in four years, but like, these are my, this is my stuff, whatever.

• 57:53Keke Palmer?

  Period.

• 57:53Speaker 02

  And then, um, they asked me to send like a couple more videos, and then, yeah, they wanted to represent me, and I, I had did like a 10-year anniversary show back in Chicago last February.

• 58:03Keke Palmer?

  Fabulous.

• 58:04Speaker 02

  And it did so well. We just did like 30 cities last year. So, that was, that kind of like inspired me, I guess. After I did that show,

• 58:12Keke Palmer?

  You're like, if people miss your career.

• 58:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was like, let me, let me try, let me put myself out there again and see what the fuck I can do. Because especially too, I was feeling self-conscious about my body.

• 58:20Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:21Speaker 02

  So I was like, do I want to be on camera? Like, I don't know how I feel yet, so... And again, I had such crazy body dysmorphia. Like, my manager would ask me like, uh, when do you think you'll be ready to start shooting like content again? Because we used to be on clockwork, like, every fucking week I used to be shooting stuff. And I was like, um, maybe like three weeks. Oh, my gosh, bitch. I was like... I literally would be like, I would buy pants that I would typically wear. And I'm so spontaneous and sporadic. I just buy clothes and I don't try them on. And I'll just go home and put them bitches on. At that time, I would go and buy some shit, I would put them on. It wouldn't even get past my fucking thigh.

• 58:53Keke Palmer?

  Girl, I know exactly what you mean.

• 58:55Speaker 02

  And I was like, no!

• 58:56Keke Palmer?

  And it doesn't help if the man is like, "I love you so much." Like, it doesn't help because it's like you are contributing to me staying this way because you just love me. You know, so it's really difficult also in that environment. I remember feeling the same way when I like, I had to give all my clothes away.

• 59:14Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:15Keke Palmer?

  I gave them all away because I'm like, I can't fit none of this shit. I need something to wear.

• 59:18Speaker 02

  I literally threw all of my, I like, not threw, I gave it away because I literally couldn't even pull it up past, and now I can fit those clothes again. And I'm like, why did I give them all away? I'm like, where did my clothes go? I'm like, have you seen those pants?

• 59:30Keke Palmer?

  Shopping spree, no. I literally could talk to you all freaking day. I want to get to this game with you.

• 59:35Speaker 02

  Yes, let's do it.

• 59:36Keke Palmer?

  But I also quickly want to touch on you saying that you're sober recently.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 59:40Keke Palmer?

  And I've been doing Dry January, and I just feel like a lot of my friends are. And I mean, again, there's nothing wrong with drinking and everything like that. But I just think that's dope when you, you know, we take those breaks because sometimes it feels so social. We feel like we have to do it. And I know you say your fans would always be being like, "Let's take a shot, let's take a shot."

• 59:56Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 59:56Keke Palmer?

  And you don't want to let nobody down, but it feels good when you could just be like, "Ooh."

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. To be honest, I feel like I'm not the type of person who needs to drink to go places. I definitely used to have to drink before I performed. I used to get really nervous. Like, the first big show that I ever did, I opened up for Minus Behavior.

• 1:00:14Keke Palmer?

  Come on, Minus Behavior!

• 1:00:15Speaker 02

  And it was at Chicago State University.

• 1:00:17Keke Palmer?

  We love Minus.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  It was actually on April 20th on Easter.

• 1:00:22Keke Palmer?

  Ooh.

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  It was 4:20 on Easter in 2014. And it was the biggest crowd that I ever did. And like, I was so nervous. I was taking shots of Ciroc to perform in front of like nine-year-olds.

• 1:00:39Keke Palmer?

  The babies had no idea.

• 1:00:40Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 1:00:42Keke Palmer?

  They're like, wow, she's energized.

• 1:00:43Speaker 02

  To sing two fucking songs, like, I was so nervous. And like, even when I, when I did my first music, like, my first music videos, like, my first couple music videos, I used to be just drinking Hennessy, like, on the set.

• 1:00:55Keke Palmer?

  I love the switch.

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  Cause I used to just...

• 1:00:56Keke Palmer?

  The Rock, Hennessy.

• 1:00:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, cause I got to a point vodka just used to fuck my stomach up. But to be honest, it's like, I started drinking when I was 15 years old. My high school was just like, a little bit crazy.

• 1:01:06Keke Palmer?

  It was giving to grassy.

• 1:01:08Speaker 02

  It was.

• 1:01:09Keke Palmer?

  Well, wait a minute, what is the new one that the people love? Kids on the block, or kids in the down street?

• 1:01:13Speaker 02

  Euphoria?

• 1:01:16Keke Palmer?

  On the block, on the block.

• 1:01:17Speaker 02

  No, I don't know, oh, I don't know that one.

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  I'm uncultured. But yeah, I started drinking pretty early on, and I just think, yeah, like, there was two pretty traumatic things that happened to me last year. One, I don't feel comfortable talking about, and secondly, when I was at my show in Colorado, I ended up taking shots during my set, and people were like, "Is the altitude, the altitude to get you?" I don't give a fuck what it was, I was blacked out. I don't remember doing half of my set, and then I had to do a...

• 1:01:42Keke Palmer?

  But you were doing it.

• 1:01:43Speaker 02

  I was doing it.

• 1:01:44Keke Palmer?

  People said you were doing it, wow, it's all by memory. Isn't that crazy? When you think about that, like, that's crazy, like, my body knew. To keep singing.

• 1:01:53Speaker 02

  You sounded like, um, the fucking old Unsolved Mysteries. But no, um, yeah, and then I had to do a mean greet afterwards.

• 1:02:02Keke Palmer?

  Oh my god.

• 1:02:03Speaker 02

  And I was completely blacked out. I did, like, I met like, 40 something people, completely blacked out, and my boyfriend said it was so cringe, I was just like kissing everybody on the cheek, telling them how much I loved them, and it was just like, "What is wrong with you? I can't believe I just said this."

• 1:02:18Keke Palmer?

  They're like, "I thought she really loved me." They're at home, like, "I thought that that was real."

• 1:02:22Speaker 02

  No, no, I love you guys, I promise, but, yeah, after that...

• 1:02:25Keke Palmer?

  That's scary, that's scary.

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, I just, like, and I've had other moments where I've blacked out when I was younger, just like, I'm in an Uber, we went, you know, we went here, I'm just, don't know exactly who I was talking to that night, like... And honestly, I'll be happy to say, I'm not really the type of person who's like, a beat-your-ass type of drunk. I'm more like, happy. Like, if you piss me off when I'm drunk, yeah, I'll be ready to do something. But, but like, you know, I'm not off the bat. Like, my sister, when she drinks, is like, this Hennessy's starting to taste like, why the fuck that bitch looking at me?

• 1:02:57Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:58Speaker 02

  And you're like, Tina, please, like, please, let's just, like, chill out.

• 1:03:02Keke Palmer?

  I know exactly what you mean. I'm either sleep, I'm either sleep, or like, you know, being like, girl. You have always had my back. Like, I'm the speech bitch. Like, I'm like,

• 1:03:13Speaker 02

  And you've been the best friend to me.

• 1:03:15Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah, that's me. Okay, I know I gotta let you go, but not before we play a game. I love playing a game with all my guests. This one's called, "But the gag is..."

• 1:03:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:03:24Keke Palmer?

  And here's how it works. I'm gonna hit you with a hot take. Now, it's not necessarily my hot take, but this is a hot take. And you're gonna tell me what the gag really is. Sounds good?

• 1:03:33Speaker 02

  Oh, damn, wait. I don't know if I'm gonna be good at this.

• 1:03:38Keke Palmer?

  Well, just gonna try it, you know what I mean?

• 1:03:39Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:03:41Keke Palmer?

  They say men are natural leaders, but the gag is...

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  The female lion is actually the one who goes out and hunts.

• 1:03:49Keke Palmer?

  Okay!

• 1:03:50Speaker 02

  And then, and the male lion sits back and waits for the food to come. It's really the women, it's the female lions that are holding it down, the lionesses.

• 1:03:59Keke Palmer?

  Just saying, you know? Give us our tens. We are the woman king.

• 1:04:04Keke Palmer?

  Men say women are confusing, but the gag is...

• 1:04:08Speaker 02

  You'll ask a guy if he wants you to come, and he says, "You can come if you want."

• 1:04:13Keke Palmer?

  Oh, because why is all this shit open-ended? I need confirmation.

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  Tell me that you want me to come.

• 1:04:19Keke Palmer?

  Literally. People say, "Boys will be boys," but the gag is...

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  Society allows men to do what they do. We just give them passes for it, and then we just write it off as that boys just do what boys do. But actually, society allows them to do what they want to do, and they're not shamed enough.

• 1:04:35Keke Palmer?

  Why are the answers everything we need to know? Is this now an Ask Advice column with Kiki and Tony Romiti? Because those are excellent. Okay, just a couple more.

• 1:04:46Speaker 02

  They're hilarious.

• 1:04:47Keke Palmer?

  Men say masculinity is under attack, but the gag is...

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  Masculinity is a figure of our imagination, and we've created all of the idea of what masculinity's supposed to be. Therefore, just be yourself and...

• 1:05:03Speaker 02

  Love everybody and be nice.

• 1:05:05Keke Palmer?

  Yes, nice one. People say you're a tomboy in the gag age.

• 1:05:09Speaker 02

  You're right.

• 1:05:11Keke Palmer?

  You are amazing. I could have talked to you like forever and ever.

• 1:05:14Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:05:15Keke Palmer?

  Come on, shot town, you know.

• 1:05:17Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having me. I just want to say thank you, Kiki. You are amazing. I'm so happy for you. I'm so proud of you. I know more about you than you think I do. And you are honestly so amazing and I'm just so proud of you. I'm so happy for you.

• 1:05:31Keke Palmer?

  Thank you so much. I live for you as well. I'm so glad that we got to actually sit and do this in person. And I'm so happy that even though men ain't shit, yours ain't. Make sure you guys check out the EP, Men Ain't Shit Except Mine, Toni Romiti.

• 1:05:44Speaker 02

  Thank you, Kiki.

• 1:05:45Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  Give me a hug.

• 1:05:47Keke Palmer?

  You're awesome.

• 1:05:52Keke Palmer?

  All right, y'all. What a conversation. I mean, I really like lived for that conversation with Toni and I'm so glad that she came through and was breaking it all the way down for us today. There's one thing I could take away. It's that we gotta stay on it, checking ourselves to make sure we're not letting society creep into how we treat each other and think about ourselves. And if we're doing that work and the men in our lives are doing it too, then hey, we on the right track. So let's just keep lifting each other up, calling out the nonsense and making room for love that's healthy, whole and real. I'll see y'all next time, because you know it's your girl.

• 1:06:37Keke Palmer?

  Enjoy Baby This Is Keke Palmer on the Wondery app, wherever you get your podcasts, and now on YouTube where you can watch full episodes. Subscribe to the Wondery channel on YouTube and don't miss any episodes. You can listen to Baby This Is Keke Palmer early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

• 1:07:01Keke Palmer?

  Baby This Is Keke Palmer is hosted and executive produced by me, Keke Palmer. Lucas Segal is our post-producer. Music supervisor is Scott Valesquez. Our original theme song was written and performed by me, Keke Palmer. For Team Kiki, my producer is Sharon Palmer. For Wondery, our managing producer is Olivia Fonte. Our producer is Tristan McNeil. Senior producers are Lizzie Bassett and Candace Manriquez-Bren. Our executive producers are Dane Easton and Marshall Louie.