Remembering Bonnie Tyler

It was a privilege to have Bonnie Tyler on How to Fail back in 2024 - and we are heartbroken to hear of her passing today. Bonnie was open, funny and moving when she joined me on How to Fail. Total Eclipse of the Heart made her a global star, and at the time of this recording, she managed to squeeze in an hour on How to Fail between gigs and the release of her new album, In Berlin. It was also her first ever podcast interview. You might want to bring the tissues for this one, as we have a bit of a weep when Bonnie talks about losing her amazing mum. We also touched on miscarriage and a childfree life. Plus her failure at elocution lessons, the fascinating story behind her friendship with Tina Turner, performing for Putin (no, really), being a bit of a hoarder and the secret to a 50-year marriage. We love you Bonnie Tyler, rest in peace. Production & Post Production Coordinator: Lily Hambly Engineer: Gulliver Tickell and Josh Gibbs Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Carly Maile How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Elizabeth Day?

  We at How To Fail were all so heartbroken to learn the news of Bonnie Tyler's passing. She came on How To Fail in 2024 and lit up the studio with her warmth and her humour and her anecdotes. And she also left many of us in tears when she spoke about the passing of her mother and her experiences with miscarriage. It felt only fitting that in honour of her memory, we reissue this episode with so much love for Bonnie Tyler and her family.

• 0:36Elizabeth Day?

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• 1:19Elizabeth Day?

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• 1:44Elizabeth Day?

  Last month, a total solar eclipse was sighted across America. As people rushed to put on their special spectacles to stare at the sun, an unexpected consequence was that a 1983 power ballad once again became number one across the United States. The song was "Total Eclipse of the Heart" and its singer, Bonnie Tyler, is my guest today. She was born Gaynor Hopkins in Wales, near Swansea. Her father was a coal miner who had fought in Dunkirk during World War II. She grew up in a council house and started singing in local clubs, where she was spotted by a talent scout. Eventually, she was offered a recording contract by RCA Records.

• 2:28Elizabeth Day?

  The legendary Ronnie Scott was one of her managers. Her hit singles included "It's a Heartache" and "Holding Out for a Hero", but it is "Total Eclipse of the Heart" from her fifth album, for which she remains the most well-known. It has sold almost 6 million copies to date and remains a firm karaoke favourite. Tyler has earned three Grammy and three BRIT nominations during her illustrious career. She was one of the first Western singers to tour the then Soviet Union, and in 2013, represented the UK in the Eurovision Song Contest. Nine years later, she was awarded an MBE for services to music and charities.

• 3:09Elizabeth Day?

  These days, she's still touring and last year released her memoir, "Straight From the Heart". Tyler turns 73 in June, although you wouldn't know it, but she says she has absolutely no intention of slowing down. "I class myself as a working-class girl and I've never stopped working. I do an awful lot because I feel other people would love to be offered what I'm offered. Who am I to say no?" Bonnie Tyler, welcome to How to Fail.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  I know, what a strange title that is for someone that's done so much.

• 3:46Elizabeth Day?

  Exactly. Well, we're going to flip the notion of failure on its head, because ultimately, it's all a learning exercise. And you sit before me as this legendary success story. And I am so honoured that you're here today because I understand it's your first ever podcast interview.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Well, I've done thousands of interviews, but I've never actually heard them called podcasts before.

• 4:08Elizabeth Day?

  Well, I hope I will endeavour to make it a good experience.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Right, oh, great. Thank you, Elizabeth.

• 4:13Elizabeth Day?

  I wanted to start off talking about the importance of working to you. What does it mean to you to work?

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Well, everything. When I left school on the Friday, I was determined to get a job by the Monday and start earning money so I could go out and buy things for myself. Although it was only a shop assistant, I got two jobs by the end of the day on the Friday after I left school. I had no qualifications. I was terrible in school. I got one O level and that's for cooking. God knows why. I think she felt sorry for me.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  So I was working right from when I was seventeen. But then when I was seventeen and a half, I really, because I'd always been singing in my bedroom with a hairbrush, you know, and it was kind of like fate was tempting me to answer this advertisement that was in the local newspaper, you know, and I did. And actually, that came after I entered a talent competition in the local rugby club. My auntie put my name down for it. But anyway, this advertisement said, "Looking for three girl singers to join Bobby Wayne and the Dixies. No experience needed."

• 5:31Speaker 01

  I thought, that's great. That's me. I'd never actually sang on a microphone before, you know, and I was used to a hairbrush in my, in my room. So I went along to the audition. There was about thirty four girls there. And I thought, I've got no chance here, you know, but I did. I became one of the Dixies. And I was with them for about eighteen months and then formed my own band. And we were working six nights a week, every week, you know, and we loved it. And this is what I, why I call myself a working class girl, because I've always, always worked. And I've always thought, like you said in the beginning.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  People would love to have the opportunities I've had and to say no seems morally wrong, you know. Of course, I want to do everything that comes my way, but, you know, if it's right, I'll do it.

• 6:26Elizabeth Day?

  You've turned down quite a few celebrity reality TV shows, I understand.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  I turned them all down, I think.

• 6:32Elizabeth Day?

  Do you regret saying no to any of them?

• 6:34Speaker 01

  No, not at all. Go in the jungle. My God, I couldn't think of anything worse. You know, I tell you, they've offered, they've offered me really good money to do that about five times. No chance. There's no point in never asking me again, you know, because I'm never gonna do it. And of course, Big Brother years ago, they asked me, no chance. I'm busy with my band anyway. My band have been with me for thirty five years, some of them, you know. I have an awesome band and just the other night now, I'm, I was at someone sold out shows in Europe, you know, and I've come home for this podcast.

• 7:13Elizabeth Day?

  Well, I'm again, very flattered. Let's talk about Total Eclipse, if you'll, if you'll allow me to. Tell me where you shot the video, because it's also an iconic video as well as being an iconic song.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And I was very lucky at the time that MTV had just started. So you can imagine how wonderful opportunity, what wonderful opportunity that was to, and I was on heavy rotation. Sounds rude.

• 7:43Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, hello.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  I was on heavy rotation on MTV, you know, and the video was extremely hard to do. It took two days and we were in an older silence somewhere outside of London. It was freezing cold on that day. In fact, there was snow on the floor as well and I had to run through it barefoot. But Jim Steinman wrote the most incredible storyboard. Couldn't understand it, but I did it. But it was an incredible video and it got nominated for a Grammy. And I lost out to um Michael Jackson for the best song, that's right.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  He won it and I also got nominated with the video with him. Thriller won it and I and I have what company to be in here.

• 8:36Elizabeth Day?

  I know, I guess we can live with that, I guess we can live with that. And I mentioned that it was a hit karaoke song and still is incredibly popular. Have you ever either performed at a karaoke or walked into a karaoke booth where someone is singing it and murdering it?

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Obviously, many of them on on on YouTube that they'll send to me, you know, my friend and I were out last night and have a look at this video, you know, and it's like, oh, my God, they love it, you know, they just all get together. But yes, I did actually do it once, years and years and years ago. We were at this party down in Swansea at some local pub somewhere, you know, and they had a karaoke night on. And somebody put my name down, didn't they? Well, of course I had to do it, otherwise I come over, I can write. Spoil sport, you know, so I actually did two, totally clips of the heart and holding out for a year ago, you know.

• 9:31Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, I wish I'd been there, Bonnie. What a night that must have been for those locals.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  Oh, it was fun.

• 9:39Elizabeth Day?

  Tell me a bit about your voice, because you have this extraordinarily powerful voice and it's got a slight raspy quality to it. And I understand that that's not something you were born with, that's something that happened. How did it happen?

• 9:51Speaker 01

  Well, you know, I was singing for seven years before I got discovered. I was singing locally for six nights a week and that took a lot of wear and tear on my voice. And I developed nodules three times in my career. And they went away with rest twice before. But this time they they just wouldn't go, it was they were persistent, you know, so I had to have surgery to have them removed. And after the operation, I was told to be quiet.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  For a man.

• 10:29Elizabeth Day?

  Bonnie is actively rolling her eyes.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Can you imagine me being quiet, you know, for, anyway, I tried my best. I had a notepad and paper and a thing around me saying, I can't speak to you because I've just had a throat operation, you know. But in the end, I just found it too hard not to talk. So I stayed in. Well, of course, when I stayed in, and I had to stay in for like six weeks, and I ate a lot, you know, when, you know, I'd never, I'd never had time off work. The only time I've been off work in my life was after this operation, I had to be quiet. But I wasn't quiet enough. And it ended up with my going back to the consultant. And he said

• 11:17Speaker 01

  to me, what have you done? You've been, you've been singing, haven't you? You've been, I said, no, I, yeah. He said, you've been talking. I said, I couldn't help it. I couldn't help it. He said, well, you've done it now. You're gonna be like this, probably forever. It wasn't so bad. I went into the studio and I went, it's a heartache. And he said, oh my God, your voice has changed, you know. But we like it. And so it turned out to be a positive thing for me.

• 11:47Elizabeth Day?

  That's so great. And that's really at the heart of everything this podcast is about. Something that might be perceived of as a failure one minute, actually turns into this unique selling point.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I had my first number three in America. You know, everybody's dream was to make hits in America, you know, and I've done it a few times. But that was the first time with It's a Heartache. Strangely enough, before I had a chance to get my version out, Juice Newton and Ronnie Spector had already copied and released it. But they never got played because they liked my raspiness, you know. And they played my version. And it went racing up the charts, you know, to number three.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  Three or four in America.

• 12:32Elizabeth Day?

  Amazing. I mentioned in the introduction that you were born Gaynor and on stage you are Bonnie.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:38Elizabeth Day?

  Do you feel you have a split personality? Do you assume a role when you go on stage?

• 12:42Speaker 01

  Funny, funny thing, yes. I'm Bonnie on stage, full of it, and I'm anti-Gaynor, Gaynor at home, you know. And all of my family called me Gaynor, of course, and my friends.

• 12:53Elizabeth Day?

  Before we get on to your failures, I want to ask you what it was like touring the Soviet Union when you did, one of the first Western artists to do so.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  I was one of, one of the first girls, I think it was the first Western girl to perform there. And it was very, very strange, but beautiful in a way as well, because I had my own band, obviously. I had my, my crew and we had a Polish crew there as well. And we took our own catering, thank God, because in them days you had to queue for anything, you know. We had, I believe it was the KGB taking care of us. We were in all these massive halls, you know.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  It was a bit strange because there'd be a lady on every floor of the hotels we stayed, you know. It's a normal thing. It was a normal thing in Russia then. But they, they, they watch everything. They write everything down. Whoever goes to room, it's all written down, you know. But the audiences were loving it, you know, because they'd never had this before. But the strange thing is, the first 20 rows or something like that was all soldiers, you know, and police. The audience had to be very well behaved, you know. I mean, when you go to a concert, you want to go, yeah, you know, and sing along. Do you know what I mean? Oh, in 1988, there was none of that then, you know. It completely changed then.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  I mean, I've been to Russia so many times. I've sang in the Kremlin three times.

• 14:30Elizabeth Day?

  Have you? Who for?

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Putin. I know.

• 14:34Elizabeth Day?

  What was that like?

• 14:35Speaker 01

  He was in the front row one time.

• 14:38Elizabeth Day?

  Was he dancing, please tell me.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  No, he had the face down to his feet.

• 14:43Elizabeth Day?

  The image, I sort of want him to be like muddling the words to Total Eclipse of the Heart.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Well, he was there because it was, I think this particular thing was like a charity for younger entertainers getting into it. Obviously, that's not going to happen anymore, which is a great shame because the, it had turned completely different to what the first time I went there. And then when I went back, I couldn't believe it, like designer stores everywhere, you know? Didn't have to queue for anything. I mean, we took our own catering. We had articulated lorries full of stuff, you know, that we'd taken over and plain. I don't know how the hell they managed it. I even took my sunbed over there. Can you believe it?

• 15:28Elizabeth Day?

  Did you?

• 15:30Speaker 01

  No wonder my skin is fried, I tell you.

• 15:32Elizabeth Day?

  Your skin is possible.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  Thank God I never did my face, though. I always covered my face with a towel, because I'd never looked good with a tanned face. But my body was always brown. Now I'm paying for it, you know, because my, my skin on my arms and my legs and whatever, oh God. But.

• 15:51Elizabeth Day?

  Well, you look great.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  My face is alright.

• 15:52Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah, your face looks fabulous. Okay, so your first failure is elocution lessons.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  Oh, yes.

• 16:00Elizabeth Day?

  How old were you when you started having elocution lessons?

• 16:03Speaker 01

  Well, I'd already started singing and I was working like six nights a week in a nightclub. And I used to be frightened about talking in between songs, you know? I mean, I tell stories now in between every song, you know, and I go on and on. But then, I was really nervous about talking, you know? And so the owner of the club where I worked, his daughter had been going to elocution lessons and she spoke very nicely, you know? And I said to her mother, where did she go for an elocution lesson? So, so she told me, Mr. Veganer Powerwell.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  So, and said, can you give me a crash course in elocution lessons? Well, that didn't last very long. I said, I better leave you before you end up talking like me.

• 17:01Elizabeth Day?

  So were you going because you wanted to diminish your Welsh accent?

• 17:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:05Elizabeth Day?

  Okay.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  I wanted to calm it down a bit, but I got no chance. I'm all over the world working, right? But I, there's no way I'm going to get rid of my Welsh accent. I can't do anything about it. It's a bit like Tom Jones, I suppose. Look at him, he lived in America since god knows when, until recently, and he's still got his Welsh accent.

• 17:26Elizabeth Day?

  I just imagine that all Welsh celebrities know each other. So do you know Tom, do you know Catherine Zeta-Jones and Tom Jones?

• 17:33Speaker 01

  Well, Catherine Zeta-Jones is my husband's cousin, second cousin. So her father is Robert's cousin. And I actually sang in their wedding in, in, in New York. But Tom Jones, yes, I've worked with him a few times. In 1979, I think it was, when I had It's Heartache, a huge hit in America. I toured, I did three shows with him, supporting him, as if he needs any support. He doesn't need anybody to support him, but his manager knew my manager. And so I was on the bill, you know? And it was incredible. He was incredible and he still is, yeah. And we all went out for dinner every night after the show.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  It was fabulous and, but no, I don't have his telephone number. I can't call him a friend as such, you know, because I don't, we're not in touch. But, you know, the last time I saw him was at, we were doing a charity show together with lots of other artists in the O2. In 2020, just before the lockdown came. That was the only other time I hadn't worked throughout my life during lockdown, you know? But he was very nice. I got a lot of time for him and he's still awesome, you know?

• 18:49Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  His voice is as strong as ever.

• 18:51Elizabeth Day?

  Well, this is for you.

• 18:58Elizabeth Day?

  One of the things I hear a lot from listeners is how tiring it can be when your mind just doesn't settle. And I can only imagine this feels even heavier with intrusive thoughts. It's that quiet sense of being worn down by something you never asked for and never wanted, but just can't seem to switch off. If you struggle with this, I want to tell you about NoCD, because it's a resource that genuinely helps people. NoCD provides specialised treatment for OCD. And what I appreciate about their approach is how human it feels. You're matched with a licensed therapist trained in ERP therapy, that's exposure and response prevention. And over time, you learn skills that help your OCD symptoms become manageable, so you can live more of the life you want to

• 19:43Elizabeth Day?

  live. If you're struggling with OCD or unrelenting intrusive thoughts, NoCD can help. Book a free 15 minute call to get started at learn.nocd.com/fail.

• 20:00Elizabeth Day?

  I'm very interested in this idea of Welshness and your Welsh heritage, though, and I would love to talk about your parents.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 20:07Elizabeth Day?

  Who sound amazing. Tell us about your mum and your dad. Your dad was this World War Two veteran.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:14Elizabeth Day?

  And very affected by what he'd witnessed.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  Well, he saw my uncle, his brains shot out, do you know what I mean? Sometimes, occasionally, when he'd come home and he'd had a few drinks, he'd be like crying and saying about Uncle Frank, you know, and, you know, the things they went through. Can you imagine?

• 20:34Elizabeth Day?

  No.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  You can't imagine, can you, you know, being in Dunkirk, you know? And my other uncle was there as well, my Uncle Ernie, and he had terrible problems afterwards psychologically. But my father didn't have it that bad, you know, it's just memories coming back to him and drink, you know? And he'd be like, there's a word for it now, isn't there?

• 20:57Elizabeth Day?

  Posthumous.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  Posthumous stress or something. But no, they just had to get on and deal with life, didn't they? But my father, he was only a minor for a very short time when he was a young man. But he was working as a fitter and turner. In the oilworks in the BP. And when he was young as well, he used to be a very good boxer. You'd never think so, mine, because he was so beautiful. He was absolutely gorgeous. But I have got his blue eyes.

• 21:26Elizabeth Day?

  You do have amazing blue eyes.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  My daddy's.

• 21:30Elizabeth Day?

  And was it a happy childhood?

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Yes, it was very happy. We didn't have any material things as such, you know. But nobody did in them days, you know what I mean? I was, I was born in nineteen fifty one. And when you think of it, that's not long after the war, is it, you know? But my, my pride and joy was my bike, you know, I love my bike. I used to go everywhere on my bike. Growing up in a big family, three sisters, two brothers. There wasn't a lot of, hardly any money around, just enough to get through, you know what I mean? The pantry was basically what was in the garden.

• 22:07Elizabeth Day?

  You say you have three sisters and two brothers.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:10Elizabeth Day?

  There was another sister.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Oh, yes.

• 22:13Elizabeth Day?

  Pauline.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, Pauline was stillborn. My mother never ever got over Pauline dying, you know. She was full term, you know, nine months, I can't, do you know the thing you see? When you're young and you're told that you would have had another sister, but she was stillborn. It don't, it don't sink in what actually my mother actually must have gone through. Carrying a baby for all those nine months. And then nothing at the end of it. It must have been traumatic. But she never really showed us her pain, but it must have been terrible for her.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  But she never did get over it, mind. She always, whenever people said, how many children do you have? And she always counted Pauline, you know. And actually, in twenty twenty, my brother, my eldest brother died, Lyn.

• 23:12Elizabeth Day?

  I'm so sorry.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  He was so proud, he was, you know, he was wonderful and he wasn't ready to go. He was enjoying his life, you know, he loved life, he loved his kids, he loved his grandkids. And he just died in his sleep.

• 23:27Elizabeth Day?

  I'm so sorry.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  And now it was awful shock. Awful shock.

• 23:32Elizabeth Day?

  Bonnie, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  Oh, well, you know, he had a wonderful life and I know he's in a good place. But it was a terrible shock.

• 23:44Elizabeth Day?

  Yes, and so you could relate presumably even more to what your mother must have been through.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:51Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  You know, because.

• 23:55Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  At least he's with my mother and father now and Pauline and, you know.

• 24:02Elizabeth Day?

  Will you tell me the story of the Father Christmas napkin?

• 24:05Speaker 01

  Oh, right.

• 24:07Elizabeth Day?

  Which, I'm sorry, I read it and it was so beautiful.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I know, but my mother, she died of Alzheimer's, bless her. And, uh, shortly before she.

• 24:24Elizabeth Day?

  We don't have to talk about it.

• 24:27Speaker 01

  I, I'd be all right now.

• 24:28Elizabeth Day?

  Okay.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  Shortly before she, um, you know, got really bad with Alzheimer's.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  She was at my house and it was near Christmas, I suppose, because I had these placemats on the table that, um. They had like a Father Christmas on them and like a pocket where you put the napkin in. And it was very Christmasy, you know. And she folded it up into a, all, all the way into like a little triangle. It was a linen placemat that you put over a placemat, you know. And she folded it up into like a little triangular and she gave it to me in my hand and she said. When I go.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Please, put this in my coffin, right?

• 25:32Speaker 01

  I said, Mom, don't talk like that, you know, you know, I want you to put it in my coffin, she said, because I want to give Colleen something when I get there, she said, and that, oh, God. Anyway, um, so she, I did it, along with us all, putting little things in coffin, you know, and photographs like as you do, you know, but she wanted me to do that, so I did it. And I still got one, you had a tear as well, though. I've still got one and in my house. Uh, thank you.

• 26:14Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, thank you.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Fast as usual.

• 26:16Elizabeth Day?

  I'm so sorry.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh. Oh, I had the best mother in the world, though. I know we all say we got the best mother, but I did.

• 26:24Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  She was an angel. In fact, when I had my, my boat, I had a fifty foot, uh, what do you call it, princess boat.

• 26:35Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  And it was for my fiftieth birthday, but just before my fiftieth, my mother died. So I said to Robert, oh, forget about the boat, I don't, I don't want it, nothing.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  I have, I have your mother, you know?

• 26:51Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  Nothing mattered. And anyway, I did the following year, and my father was still alive then. He, he was alive for eighteen months after my mother. So the boat was being built down in Plymouth. So before we took it over to Portugal, where we have a house there, we said, Daddy, come in and have a look at the boat, you know? And so we took him down to Plymouth and he kissed the side of the boat, you know, and we took him out for a spin in it, you know? It was, it had a fly bridge and everything, you know, it

• 27:34Speaker 01

  was a fabulous boat with three bedrooms and, and Daddy absolutely loved the boat. But I said to him, Dad, I want to name it after Mammy, but I don't want to call it Elsie, you know? Straight away, he said.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  There was an angel in the harbour, you know. He pointed out the angel and he said, call it angel, he said, your mother was an angel. And so we called it angel. Yeah, so I had that boat for about twenty one years. We had wonderful times on there with all the family and everything, you know, great holidays with friends and family. And I sold it last year because I found that I wasn't going out in it so much, you know.

• 28:18Elizabeth Day?

  I cannot thank you enough for sharing that.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  Oh, I'd love everybody to know, actually, what a wonderful person my mother was and my father, you know.

• 28:29Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah, I think you have paid great tribute to them with that.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 28:33Elizabeth Day?

  And what a testament you are to them too.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  She always brought us up, all of us, to believe in ourselves, you know. It's strange because she was such a gentle person, right? And of course, with six children, or seven, you would have said.

• 28:50Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  She was working so hard in the house, keeping the house clean and washing and ironing. And we were terrible, mind, we weren't any help at all. I can't, looking back now, I think, God, you know, but the only thing I did do was like tidy my bedroom now and then, you know. And I can't remember ever learning to cook or anything like that, you know. My mother was too busy doing it for us all, you know. She brought us all up to believe in ourselves, even though she was a housewife, you know, and she was doing everything. A housewife's job is so hard anyway, but she didn't have a chance to do anything else, even if she wanted to.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  But she had the most incredible opera voice, but she only did it in the house, you know. People used to stand outside of my house just to listen to my mother sing an opera, you know.

• 29:46Elizabeth Day?

  That's amazing.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, fabulous. I mean, there was all kinds of music in my house because of all the generations, different generations, you know, there. My eldest sister was into like Frank Sinatra, my, my brother Lynn love him. He loved Elvis Presley, Eddie Cochran and all that, you know. And then there was Angela, the Beatles and, you know, all the sixties bands. And she gave me my first album, Hard Day's Night. I know every single word of it, of the whole album. And I got to meet Paul McCartney in the end.

• 30:19Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, wow, that must have been amazing.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  But, but yeah, funny that my mother was, gave us all so less to be confident. And yet she was very, very low key herself, you know.

• 30:32Elizabeth Day?

  So you were all into music and you were all into singing. So why do you think you're the one who became?

• 30:39Speaker 01

  Fate, I think.

• 30:40Elizabeth Day?

  Do you think it's fate?

• 30:41Speaker 01

  I, I really do think, and not only that, I heard somebody saying the other day something. And I thought, yeah, that's really good, that is. Fate comes away, but be ready for it and bite its hand off.

• 30:53Elizabeth Day?

  Yes, yes. Oh, Bonnie, thank you so much for telling us about your family, your wonderful, wonderful family. So you had this innate talent for singing. You become a superstar and then we come on to your second failure. Now, this failure, I couldn't believe it. It's such a good one, again, because it goes to the heart of everything that we're talking about. Simply the best.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 31:19Elizabeth Day?

  Tell, it was actually called The Best, which I didn't know until I read your failure. People misquote it all the time. So what happened with The Best?

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Well, in nineteen eighty-eight, I was recording an album with Desmond Child in Woodstock. Actually, in Janis Joplin's old studio, right?

• 31:35Elizabeth Day?

  Can we just pause? That sentence, that sentence is one of the most iconic sentences, I think, has ever been uttered in this studio. Okay, carry on.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Well, of course, Janis had died in nineteen sixty-nine, but I was working in this studio that she used to work in. That her and her manager owned. I was doing an album, a very budgeted album, you know, like after Total Eclipse of the Heart and Secret Dreams and Forbidden Fire with the late, great Jim Steinman. The record company had forked out fortunes for them, you know what I mean? But for this next album, Desmond was given a meager kind of budget to to work for a whole album. They only paid him really enough for seven songs, but we ended up doing, I think it was fourteen or fifteen.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  And this song, simply the best, I recorded then. And it was not played, you know, nobody played my version of it. And then two years later, Tina Turner released it and it was a massive hit, you know? I always do a tribute to Tina in my show, you know, because when I was young, I was always in my bedroom with, you know, playing I can Tina Turner songs, Tina Turner, Janis Joplin, Wilson Pickett, you know, big voices I loved, you know? I do a tribute to Tina and I do that song. And I used to say, I I did it two years before Tina, but it doesn't seem right to say that now

• 33:07Speaker 01

  because she's such a legend, that she's, she was such an inspiration for all of us girl singers, you know? She was incredible, absolutely the best, that simply the best. So I just say I'm I'm gonna do a tribute. I don't even say anymore now that I recorded it two years before, you know?

• 33:28Elizabeth Day?

  And what do you think happened there? Why do you think it was successful when she sang it? Is that about subjectivity of taste? Is it about the time being right?

• 33:37Speaker 01

  I think it was the time where they weren't playing certain people over an age. And yet they played Tina Turner, she's older than me, she was. But, you know, they didn't play my records anyway. And it turned out to be one of quite a successful album, actually. In fact. There are three or four songs on that album that I recorded before other artists. I did Save Up All Your Tears before Shedded it.

• 34:06Elizabeth Day?

  Wow.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  I did To Love Somebody, the old Bridget song. I did that before Jimmy Somerville had a number one with it. And Don't Turn Around, Aswad had a number one with it, that Diane Warren wrote. I did that. And nobody played my versions of it, you know, I'm simply the best. Yeah, but the album is, it's a great album and Desmond Child is an awesome producer as well, you know.

• 34:34Elizabeth Day?

  The Tina Turner thing is very interesting because hearing you talk about it, you're so supportive of other artists and particularly other women. Was there ever a point where you felt a bit resentful, you're like, hang on a second, this was my song?

• 34:46Speaker 01

  No, no, it actually gave me my confidence back in my choice of material. Because I thought, I was sure that was a good song and it went to number one for Tina Turner. I got, I gotta say, my, my mother, bless her, she said, it's not fair, see? You did that song before Tina Turner and they didn't play you us.

• 35:11Elizabeth Day?

  But you never felt that?

• 35:13Speaker 01

  No, not really, you know, I mean, of course I was disappointed. But, you know, I love Tina Turner. I was so lucky I met her a couple of times. Yeah.

• 35:22Elizabeth Day?

  What was she like?

• 35:23Speaker 01

  Fabulous. She even asked for my autograph. She gave me her autograph, of course, I asked her then, when she asked me. And when I walked into the studio, this was before she was huge. After she left Ike and she was trying to get back and it was before that big, what's love got to do with it, you know? And she, she was singing a song called The Black Widow, I'm sure it was called. And she was on a TV show with me in Germany. And she saw me walking in because I'd, I'd heard Tina Turner was on the same show. So I wanted to see her rehearsing. So I walked into the, the studio to watch her. And she saw me coming in and she went, it's a ha ha ha, the Bonnie Tyler.

• 36:08Elizabeth Day?

  Oh my goodness.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was chuffed. And another time then I was doing the Terry Wogan chat show and. She, I'm telling you too much now.

• 36:21Elizabeth Day?

  Never, no such thing, no such thing. What happened with Terry Wogan? Can you not tell me?

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Well, it was a change of clothes that we had to make because I came out of my dressing room and Tina came out of her dressing room and she went, uh-oh.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  One of us has got to change. And I said, well, I hope it's you because I haven't got anything else with me.

• 36:44Elizabeth Day?

  Were you wearing the same thing?

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Very similar red leather miniskirt and a red leather jacket and she had a red leather dress on. She looked absolutely amazing with them legs, you know what I mean? But fair enough, she had things to change into. I didn't and she changed.

• 37:06Elizabeth Day?

  Wow.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  But we both had black fishnet stockings as well, you know, and black shoes. And it was really, really strange.

• 37:14Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah, it's like you're connected twins.

• 37:22Elizabeth Day?

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• 38:04Elizabeth Day?

  out, I could have saved myself a lot of time, stress and some rogue design choices. If you're ready to hear the

• 38:12Elizabeth Day?

  of your first sale today, head over to Shopify.co.uk/fail to start your free trial today. That's right. Start your free trial at Shopify.co.uk/fail.

• 38:31Elizabeth Day?

  The music industry is famous, or perhaps infamous, for being quite unstable, demanding. But you have had one great source of stability throughout your entire career, which is your husband, Robert.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:46Elizabeth Day?

  How long have you two been together?

• 38:47Speaker 01

  We were married for 50 years last year.

• 38:50Elizabeth Day?

  Congratulations.

• 38:51Speaker 01

  Fifty-one this July, yeah.

• 38:53Elizabeth Day?

  What do you think the secret is to a long-lasting marriage?

• 38:56Speaker 01

  When we travel together, I think, you know, when you're together all the time, it's a good thing.

• 39:03Elizabeth Day?

  Now, you don't have children, and neither do I.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:06Elizabeth Day?

  And that's why I'm very passionate about asking women who don't have children how they have navigated their life.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Well, I left it too late, to be honest, to get pregnant. Because when I did get pregnant, when I was 39, it didn't last very long, a couple of months, you know, and I had a miscarriage. Yeah, I didn't dwell on it though, you know, because what's to be will be, you know. I always had a feeling though, that it was a boy, I don't know why, but it's in my mind that I would have had a boy, you know. Yeah, yeah, we had a miscarriage, but I've got so many nieces and nephews, and one of them lives with me and his partner, John. So Chris, Christopher and John, they'll be there now when I go home. I've got 16 nieces and nephews, and I see a lot of them, you know.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  We're a very close family, you know, and we've got another one on the way. Chloe's pregnant now, and she's due next week.

• 40:05Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, that's so lovely.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. And the strange thing is, right, me and Chloe, we're like clones, you know. She looks like me, she, you know, of course, she's only in her twenties, but when I was her age, we were like twins, you know what I mean? Very often I used to say to her, you know, darling, don't leave it too late now, because she got married a couple of years ago. I don't, don't leave it too late, like I did, you know, because you may regret it, you know. I said, we left it a little bit too late, and, you know, I had miscarriage when I was 39. And I think she must have taken it in because she's got a baby girl coming. And I'm hoping to see her next week.

• 40:48Elizabeth Day?

  That's beautiful. Thank you so much for talking about that. I'm I'm someone who doesn't have children and I've also had miscarriages.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  Have you? Have you had a couple of, yeah?

• 40:59Elizabeth Day?

  I've had three.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Oh, dear God.

• 41:01Elizabeth Day?

  But so I understand a little of what that is like.

• 41:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:05Elizabeth Day?

  And I also, although none of them was as late as your mother's.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 41:10Elizabeth Day?

  And actually even.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  Thank God.

• 41:12Elizabeth Day?

  But thank God.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:13Elizabeth Day?

  Even the term miscarriage for what your mother went through is not appropriate. But I can understand a little of the grief because really you're grieving and something that never happened. You're grieving an absence as well as a presence. And it's very powerful when women like you share your stories.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  Well, what I did, I wrote all my feelings down in a in a book, right? In a not in a book to sell.

• 41:36Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  In a.

• 41:38Elizabeth Day?

  In a journal.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  Something, you know, and I I've put it at the back of the cupboard somewhere.

• 41:44Elizabeth Day?

  I think that's so wise because actually you need it. Well, you will know that as a songwriter yourself, you need to put your feelings onto the page or somewhere. So that they no longer eat you up from the inside.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it helps to write it down, write down your feelings. And actually, I'm not I'm not a great songwriter. I'm very lucky that I work with incredible songwriters. I have written songs and my brother is a a rock singer, you know, in a band called Sunshine Carbon Core. And they work in like regularly every week still. And he's like, he's my little brother, right? But I he's stick, he's sixty.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  Anyway, he I I used to write some songs with him, you know, and and a couple of other people. But I I've never had a hit with my own songs, you know what I mean?

• 42:35Elizabeth Day?

  Uh, how do you feel being in your seventies? I mean, you look like you're in your thirties, but how does it feel?

• 42:40Speaker 01

  I don't look like I'm in my thirties, but I I. You know, I I did have a knee operation before Christmas. I had an old skin injury, I cracked my meniscus bone and it gave me chip. All these years later, I had this when I was in my thirties, but I had to have an operation. But anyway, the the surgeon said it's gonna take six weeks. I'd say I haven't got six weeks, I got two weeks, I'll be on that plane in two weeks. Not unless I say so, he said. I was.

• 43:14Elizabeth Day?

  I feel yet you have a history of defying surgeons' advice.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:19Elizabeth Day?

  Um, your third and final failure, in your words, I'm not too good at getting rid of things. So are you a hoarder?

• 43:28Speaker 01

  No, my dressing room at home and in Portugal is rammed, jammed, you know. I do have a clear out now and then and give it to my nieces, you know. But um, I'm due for another one now. All the cupboards are all full, all wardrobes, and I got all around the whole huge room. And I've got rails everywhere, you know, I gotta wade through the rails, you know. But mostly I wear jackets and trousers and I don't hoard, I'm not a hoarder, as you see these on the television, you know. And my kitchen cupboards, I think we've all got every gadget that's ever gone. My latest is the is the air fryer.

• 44:12Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, you're one of them.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  But I actually like that.

• 44:14Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah, they sound brilliant.

• 44:16Speaker 01

  And I have a oh, a thermostat.

• 44:19Elizabeth Day?

  A thermomix.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  Thermomix.

• 44:20Elizabeth Day?

  My parents are obsessed with that thermomix.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  We got one in Portugal and at home, yeah.

• 44:27Elizabeth Day?

  So the clothes, do you hold on to them because they are full of memories?

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Well, some of them, I actually have got a big trunk in my attic from Bobby Wayne and the Dixies days, right? Well, you would never believe the size that I used to be. I used to be probably what you would call a size six now. I'm a size fourteen now, I'm a sixteen jacket. I was always tiny, tiny, like Chloe is, even now, she's only got the baby bump, you know. And Chloe, my niece, who's having a baby next week, I have a trunk with clothes from them days. Cause it's like, it is memories, you know, and my, my hot pants, you know, they were about this big, you know. I'm doing this on a podcast.

• 45:16Elizabeth Day?

  So what do you fear would happen if you let all of that go?

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Oh, I probably should. It's ridiculous. I don't know when I even looked in that trunk last, must be 20 years or something, you know. They probably, I don't know, if they can get through a metal trunk, I don't know, it's probably moffing.

• 45:37Elizabeth Day?

  I feel that there's something so beautiful about you, which is how rooted you are, how grounded you are. In spite of all the incredible success and legendary status you've achieved, and maybe you understand the profound importance of, of staying true to your past self, and maybe that's what it's about.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  I wonder. I am down to earth. Everybody tells me, oh, the funny thing is, before I came here, there was two guys at the hotel, you know, and they walked in and they saw me and my husband. And one of the young boys said to me, well, said to us, gosh, you look so well dressed and so you look like celebrities.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  So anyway, we were still waiting for our taxi to come, right? And we were waiting for a while and he said, what do you do? And I said, actually, I only told him, you know, I said, I'm Bonnie Tyler. And he was a very young boy. He must have been about 20, one, something like that. And his mate was same. He had his laptop with him. He Googled it straight away and he said, my God, you've got four million people on, what do you call it, you know? And yeah, I don't normally do that, you know, I don't say, well, actually I'm Bonnie Tyler, like. And, and he said, but what's your husband do? I said, well, he's an Olympian. He went to the Olympics in 1972.

• 47:06Elizabeth Day?

  As a judo champion, right?

• 47:08Speaker 01

  Judo. Yeah. He's a third down black belt, you know.

• 47:11Elizabeth Day?

  That's extraordinary.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. And the thing is, in them days, Olympians weren't paid anything, you know, he had to work.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  Untrained, you had like no money. We got together and everything and in the end, very successful. We had clubs and things, you know.

• 47:33Elizabeth Day?

  Hmm.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:34Elizabeth Day?

  And very successful personally too as a unit.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:38Elizabeth Day?

  Fifty years, so congratulations on that.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 47:42Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, Bonnie Tyler, I can't tell you how much I've loved this conversation. I would love to draw this part to a close by asking you what you think your parents would say to you. They must have been so proud of you.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  I think they'd say, my mother said to me, you know, keep the family like this, she said, right?

• 48:06Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  Keep the family like this, and we are.

• 48:10Elizabeth Day?

  You're so close.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  And I think she'd say, doing a great job of all of you sticking together, all of you being the family you are, you know? And it's because of my mother and my father, you know?

• 48:24Elizabeth Day?

  Well, I'm.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  You'll have me crying again now.

• 48:26Elizabeth Day?

  Sorry, I'm gonna stop, I'm gonna stop now, but I'm so excited for you to meet your newest niece next week.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  I don't know what they're gonna call her.

• 48:35Elizabeth Day?

  I mean, Bonnie is a great name.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  Oh, and you know Chloe, right, who's having the baby? Her second name is Gaynor. Yeah, her sister named her after me, you know, my sister Avis, who's also a brilliant singer, by the way, but she sings for the church and charities and things, you know?

• 48:53Elizabeth Day?

  Lovely. Well, I think being an aunt is a beautiful role to inhabit.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  And I think I'm a good auntie.

• 48:58Elizabeth Day?

  I can tell you're a good auntie. I want you to be mine, so we need to talk after this. But Bonnie Tyler, I cannot thank you enough for gracing me.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  I really enjoyed it, Elizabeth. Thank you so much.

• 49:09Elizabeth Day?

  I've loved it. Thank you so much.