This Secret Will Blow Up Our Church Group

On today’s episode, we hear about: · A woman struggling with what to do after finding out about an affair in her small group · A husband wondering if his marriage can be saved or if it’s time to divorce · A man looking for ways to better communicate his needs to his wife Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🔴 Get 15% off with code DELONY at Bon Charge. 🌿 Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 🥤 Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi. 💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne. 🏋️ Go to Trainwell to get started! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  How can I continue to participate in my church small group when I discovered an affair between one of the wives in my group and one of the husbands in my group?

• 0:16Dr. John Delony?

  This is awesome. Do the other partners know?

• 0:19Speaker 00

  No.

• 0:20Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, even more awesome.

• 0:22Speaker 00

  No.

• 0:22Dr. John Delony?

  Are you gonna tell them?

• 0:28Dr. John Delony?

  Yo, yo, what's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, taking your calls on your marriage, your mental and emotional health, your relationships, your kids, your workplace, whatever you've got going on in your life. I'm so glad that you're with us. There's eight trillion podcasts you could be listening to, and you picked us. So, thanks for pulling up a seat at the restaurant and grabbing some chips and some queso and sitting with us as we figure out what's the next right move for a real person going through real challenges. Rose in Indianapolis, what is up, Rose?

• 1:01Speaker 00

  Hi, son.

• 1:03Dr. John Delony?

  What's up?

• 1:06Speaker 00

  Thank you so much for taking my call. I am such a big fan of yours.

• 1:09Dr. John Delony?

  Well, I'm a big fan of yours. I'm glad that you called. How can I help?

• 1:12Speaker 00

  Yes, okay. So, my question is, how can I continue to participate and grow in my church small group when I discovered an affair between one of the wives in my group and one of the husbands in my group?

• 1:30Dr. John Delony?

  This is awesome.

• 1:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm, I kind of feel like I'm going through the grief cycle. Like, I'm really sad, and then I get really mad, and it's just...

• 1:39Dr. John Delony?

  Do the other partners know?

• 1:41Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:42Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, even more awesome.

• 1:44Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:45Dr. John Delony?

  Are you gonna tell them?

• 1:47Speaker 00

  Well, that's why I'm talking to you. I was hoping you would give me some...

• 1:50Dr. John Delony?

  Yes, you have to.

• 1:52Speaker 00

  Okay, well, can I give you a little bit of the backstory here?

• 1:55Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 1:57Speaker 00

  Okay, so I've been in this group for about four years now. We have a total of five couples in the group, and between us all, we have 14 kids.

• 2:07Dr. John Delony?

  Is there a pineapple on the front porch?

• 2:10Speaker 00

  You would think at this point, but no.

• 2:14Speaker 00

  So, yeah, we get together every single Tuesday night. Um, we have dinner together. We just get together and do life together, basically.

• 2:24Dr. John Delony?

  A lot of life, a lot of life.

• 2:27Speaker 00

  Clearly, clearly. So, yeah, so one couple in particular has shared with us some of their marriage struggles. Um, and I'll just refer to her, the wife as Sarah. Um, so Sarah's been very open about the struggles in her marriage with our entire group. Um, and so on the flip side of that, um, I recently started working full-time, um, after being a stay-at-home mom for about three years. And one of the coworkers that I've gotten close to knows Sarah. They have mutual friends. So she shared with me just a couple of weeks ago that Sarah confided in her about this affair and shared details with her about who it was with. Um,

• 3:11Speaker 00

  and it's details that I, I know she's not lying because she really shouldn't know any of these details. Um, and they're really not that good of friends.

• 3:22Dr. John Delony?

  Like, details like a mole on the back of his ear? Or like, what kind of details?

• 3:28Speaker 00

  The details consist of like, knowing what kind of vehicle the husband drives that she's having the affair with. Um, she knows when and how the affair started, which was back in December, um, when the two of them, the Sarah and the husband, were planning the husband's, this is so confusing, the husband's wife's birthday party. That's kind of how it started, I guess, because they shared telephone numbers. Um,

• 3:57Dr. John Delony?

  So, so walk me through, what's your question?

• 4:00Speaker 00

  Okay, so, knowing this information, I sat on it for, for about a week. I processed it with my husband. We prayed about it together. And I ultimately came to the decision that I just need to confront her about these things that I'm hearing. Um, and so I did that. I took her to a coffee shop, um, sat her down and just let her know, hey, I'm hearing these things. Is this true? Um, and she denied everything. So, now, I'm kind of like, if this isn't true, I, I, I just, I'm not understanding how it's not true, how there's not any truth to it because of the details that my coworker knows.

• 4:41Speaker 00

  Does that make sense?

• 4:42Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, totally.

• 4:43Speaker 00

  Um, so I just don't know how to proceed when I did the right thing by confronting Sarah, but I still feel this just awkwardness and I don't believe her. And so I don't know how to proceed.

• 4:57Dr. John Delony?

  Um.

• 5:02Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, there's, there's multiple things going on here. I think big thing number one is you have to grieve the fact that you did life with five families for four years, every Tuesday. Y'all shared secrets, y'all prayed together, you wept together, your kids played together. And, okay, the affair, fine, the affair happened. But it's that you can sit down and talk to a friend, heart to heart, and she just lied to your face.

• 5:27Speaker 00

  Yes, that's, yeah.

• 5:29Dr. John Delony?

  Right.

• 5:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:30Dr. John Delony?

  And yes, affair shouldn't happen, and, but, but they do.

• 5:34Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:35Dr. John Delony?

  I, this, this may sound crazy, and I may get some flack for this, and I haven't even thought this all the way through, just my two decades of working with student conduct, conduct issues, like from graduate students who are in their 50s all the way to 18-year-olds. I was always much more concerned about who they were the day after. Meaning, people do stuff. They find themselves in situations, they make a bad choice, they make a bad decision, they do a thing that's so dumb. Who are you when somebody calls you on it?

• 6:09Speaker 00

  Right.

• 6:10Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 6:11Speaker 00

  Right.

• 6:11Dr. John Delony?

  And so, you sat down with a friend that you trusted, that you poured your life out to, and you thought had poured their life out to you, and she lied your face.

• 6:20Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 6:21Dr. John Delony?

  And so that's the part I would deeply be grieving. Of course, I'm gonna grieve that these two marriages are now blown up and all that stuff. So, um.

• 6:33Dr. John Delony?

  I think without question, you've, you and your husband are out of this group because it's like, what is it, 35% of it is untrustworthy.

• 6:40Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 6:42Dr. John Delony?

  And there's big giant secrets being had in there.

• 6:45Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:47Dr. John Delony?

  And now that you've sat down and talked to her, if she has any brand at all, she's deleted everything, she told the person that she had the affair with, we're gonna delete everything, change everything, and so everything is what it is what it is, right?

• 6:59Speaker 00

  Right.

• 7:00Dr. John Delony?

  And then it might just be a he said, she said, she said, he said.

• 7:02Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:03Dr. John Delony?

  What about, are you friends with this other guy's wife? The one who's kind of the...

• 7:08Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 7:09Dr. John Delony?

  How's that conversation gone? Have you met with her?

• 7:12Speaker 00

  So, we had our small group, um, just this past Tuesday night, um, Sarah and her husband were not there, um, but the other, the hus- the other husband and his wife were there, and it was very awkward for me, it was very awkward for me.

• 7:28Dr. John Delony?

  Is Sarah ever gonna come back?

• 7:29Speaker 00

  Yes, they're going to come back, they, they're on a trip together, trying to work things out, so it just, it just reiterates the fact that she's lying to me because I think she's in, you know, cleanup mode right now, she's trying to, um, clean up the mess that she made, or, you know, damage control, so...

• 7:50Dr. John Delony?

  Has your husband sat down with the guy?

• 7:53Speaker 00

  He has not, should he? That was one thing we had talked about.

• 7:57Dr. John Delony?

  I would.

• 7:58Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 7:59Dr. John Delony?

  And I'd probably phrase it like this, "Hey, I know what happened, you don't have to explain yourself to me, you don't have to..." But, my expectation is you say something, I'm not just gonna sit here and keep showing up every Wednesday with your wife, holding your hand, who has no idea.

• 8:12Speaker 00

  I know.

• 8:13Dr. John Delony?

  And, it's also not wise for anyone to assume that these spouses don't already know.

• 8:19Speaker 00

  Right, that was the other thing, I'm like, "Well, maybe they know, and they're okay with it, but I'm not okay with it."

• 8:24Dr. John Delony?

  Maybe they're not okay with it.

• 8:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:26Dr. John Delony?

  And, and here's the deal, at the end of the day, all you can control is what you can control.

• 8:30Speaker 00

  Right.

• 8:31Dr. John Delony?

  Would you want somebody to sit down with your husband if he was having an affair with one of your friends?

• 8:35Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:36Dr. John Delony?

  Would you, um, want someone to...

• 8:42Dr. John Delony?

  Would you want one of his friends to sit down with you if they found out he was sleeping with somebody else?

• 8:46Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:47Dr. John Delony?

  You can only do what you can do. And then you're gonna have to choose, we're heading out of this thing.

• 8:52Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's just heartbreaking because all of our kids are best friends.

• 8:58Dr. John Delony?

  Hold on, that's it right there.

• 8:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:00Dr. John Delony?

  Don't go past that. This is just heartbreaking. It's a mess.

• 9:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:05Dr. John Delony?

  And the way I learned it was not by your hand, but in your lap. You didn't cause this, and here it is.

• 9:10Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:12Dr. John Delony?

  The neighbor's house caught on fire, and it was dry outside, and your house burned to the ground too. It didn't do anything, but now you gotta clean up a burned-down house. And it's just heartbreaking.

• 9:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is.

• 9:26Dr. John Delony?

  You had a group of an awesome thing going, and somebody else blew it up, and then they lied about blowing it up.

• 9:31Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:33Dr. John Delony?

  It's just heartbreaking.

• 9:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:36Dr. John Delony?

  How old are your kids?

• 9:38Speaker 00

  I have a six-year-old and a three-year-old.

• 9:42Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, they're not gonna understand what's up and what's down. And so you're gonna have weeks of, "Why can't we go to whatever's house?"

• 9:48Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm, yep. Yeah, it's just heartbreaking, and then I just overthink, and I'm like, "Well, maybe she's not lying," but I'm like, "No, there's something going on here."

• 10:00Dr. John Delony?

  But here's the thing. I'm saying this because of the tight-knit nature of how you've painted this group.

• 10:13Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:15Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm thinking of my friend Todd, and my friend John, and their wives Melissa and Jennifer, and my wife.

• 10:24Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:27Dr. John Delony?

  John and/or Todd would probably call me privately, and the next time we all got together, it would all be put out on the table, because we have that kind of closeness in our relationship.

• 10:39Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 10:39Dr. John Delony?

  Because hey, Deloney, your stupidity affected all of us.

• 10:45Dr. John Delony?

  And so it's this, you did the right thing, you went to the person, which I think is the right way to handle it, right? And you're, it sounds like you're a person of faith, that's the way the Bible says to do it. Go straight to them. And then what's it say? Take a couple of people.

• 10:56Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 10:57Dr. John Delony?

  And so if you want to follow that, that model, I think that model works everywhere, in and outside of faith communities, but go to that person, we're gonna bring a couple of people, hey, here's the deal, man. Like, we kind of know.

• 11:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:10Dr. John Delony?

  And now it's about a friendship, now you're not being honest with the friendship.

• 11:15Speaker 00

  Right.

• 11:16Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And then you'll have some decisions to make about where you're gonna go to church and what groups you're gonna get plugged into. And you'll have to agree with the fact, y'all had a good thing going and somebody else blew it up.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, we do, we do have leaders within our group and we did share with our leaders what we had heard. And they approached her as well and asked her the same things I did and she denied it then too.

• 11:37Dr. John Delony?

  Of course, of course she is.

• 11:38Speaker 00

  So, yeah.

• 11:39Dr. John Delony?

  But hold on, but hold on. If, if what you know is to be true, that she's a person who lacks serious character, and I know you're not supposed to rank these things, but there's difference between meeting somebody at work or on a work trip and having a one night stand and then sleeping with one of your closest best friend's husbands.

• 11:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:59Dr. John Delony?

  Like, there's layers and, and I'm, I know I'm up, an affair isn't, fine, that just sounds worse to me.

• 12:05Speaker 00

  Right.

• 12:06Dr. John Delony?

  So if that person is that kind of person, then I wouldn't expect them to suddenly develop a sense of integrity and character when they're called out on it.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  That's true, yeah.

• 12:16Dr. John Delony?

  They've already, they've already shown you who they are.

• 12:20Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:21Dr. John Delony?

  And so I, I wouldn't keep going back to that, well, you've done the first step, the, the way Scripture lays it out, you've done the second step, then you'll have some decisions to make now. You can tell her she's not welcome until she wants to clear it up.

• 12:37Dr. John Delony?

  And she could say, "Hey, this is our family, private business. I'm not bringing it here." And you could say, "Well, hey, the whole point of a small group is that we all agree to share business."

• 12:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:46Dr. John Delony?

  That's the whole point of what we're doing. We're doing life together, which is good stuff, and it's when things get sideways. And she's opting out. But if the leaders aren't gonna do that, and the other people in the group are gonna stay in the dark, then you're gonna have some choice to make.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  Okay. I was afraid you were gonna say that.

• 13:07Dr. John Delony?

  I mean,

• 13:10Dr. John Delony?

  yeah, I don't really have another option. I hate it for you. It just is what it is. But, I mean, it just stinks. And whether this happens at work, whether this happens in church, whether this happens with friends, whether this happens with family members, it's just, life is what? Somebody dropping a grenade in your lap at all times. Occasionally, we have a grenade in our own lap, and we pull the pin. But often, life is just a series of dealing with other people's grenades. And I've just come to a point where my two guiding principles are, I'm gonna try to do my best to be a person of integrity. I don't always get it right, but I'm gonna try to be a person of integrity when walking through, cleaning up a mess that somebody else has caused in my life. And the second thing is, I wanna make sure that when the smoke clears on what just happened, that I can look in the mirror

• 13:55Dr. John Delony?

  and still honor, I'm still a person of honor and integrity and respect. And that doesn't mean I'm gonna do it perfect, but that means I'm gonna, I'm gonna spend the effort doing the next right thing. You, Rose, are at that point when you've prayed about it, you talked about it, you've thought about it. It's haunted your nights and your mornings. You think about it all the time. You confronted the person. You had told the leaders of the group.

• 14:18Dr. John Delony?

  And you're still back here at square one. And so now you've got that hard choice, is I think we gotta go. Or I think we gotta put all of us on the table when everyone's sitting around the table.

• 14:29Dr. John Delony?

  Let me know what you choose to do, Rose. Let me know what you choose to do. I think everyone wants to know what's gonna happen next here. And just FYI, at some point, Rose, you're gonna have to answer the question, "Why did you not let Jack on the door too?" That was my Titanic joke, in case anybody got that. If you didn't get that... Kelly's just shaking her head at me. I thought that was a good one. No, not a good one. We come back, we talk to a man who has put everything into his marriage for the last 15 years, and his wife wants nothing to do with it. We'll be right back. Father's Day is coming, and no dad that I know wants another tie.

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• 15:53Dr. John Delony?

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• 17:44Speaker 02

  Hey, Dr. John.

• 17:45Dr. John Delony?

  What's up, my brother?

• 17:47Speaker 02

  I'm just trying to make it through the day.

• 17:50Dr. John Delony?

  Let me know what's going on, man.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  Well, the question that I called in for, I'll try to not get too tongue tied, but the question I called in for was to see what I could do or how I could figure out what to do with my wife who doesn't seem to want to be in this marriage anymore. Doesn't feel like she's putting any effort in anymore.

• 18:17Dr. John Delony?

  Has she told you she doesn't want to be in anymore?

• 18:20Speaker 02

  No.

• 18:21Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 18:22Speaker 02

  Every time that question comes up, she says, "Oh, I'll try, I'll try, I'll try." But every time we're no longer in that conversation, I don't see anything.

• 18:33Dr. John Delony?

  What are some things she's not doing or that are signaling to you that she's not interested in being married?

• 18:41Speaker 02

  Um, she doesn't want to spend any time with me. Um, she doesn't really seem to care about what's going on in my life or what's going on uh with work or anything like that. Um, she spends most of her time with her family.

• 19:01Speaker 02

  And if I have anything to say about um how I feel about what's going on, then it's twisted or turned against me. And if I bring up any instances of times that I feel like she's

• 19:19Speaker 02

  uh kind of dismissed me or put me off, then she says, no, you're twisting my words. That's not what I said. That's not what's going on. When I ask for clarification, then she breaks down and says, oh, I'm a bad wife. I don't know what to do.

• 19:34Dr. John Delony?

  How long's this been going on, man?

• 19:38Speaker 02

  A few years.

• 19:42Dr. John Delony?

  You have kids?

• 19:44Speaker 02

  No.

• 19:45Dr. John Delony?

  How long have you been married?

• 19:47Speaker 02

  Uh, almost fifteen years.

• 19:48Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So how can I help, man? What are you thinking?

• 19:54Speaker 02

  I don't know. Uh, I've talked with a couple of counselors and um they

• 20:00Speaker 02

  kind of get to uh the end of the line of questioning and say that there's not really much else that they can do. There's not really much that they can try. We've tried couples counseling, which she hated uh because the counselor asked her to make some changes that she was not willing to make.

• 20:20Dr. John Delony?

  Like what?

• 20:23Speaker 02

  Um, uh, specifically the one that really made her angry was the counselor asked her to put some effort into the marriage, you know, uh, making sure that she was uh involved in the decision making and involved in the um in growing the relationship. And she didn't like having been given that assignment.

• 20:46Dr. John Delony?

  Wow. Does she have psychiatric challenges or has she been diagnosed with um any sort of psychological diagnostic?

• 20:57Speaker 02

  I don't know. I asked her to go and see counseling on her own after the marriage counseling didn't work. And she went for a couple of times and I don't know if she either didn't tell the counselor or lied to the counselor, but they gave her a clean bowl of health and kind of moved on.

• 21:19Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, I don't have a lot for you. You've done all the things I would tell you to do. I guess my question for you is, uh, are you gonna stay married?

• 21:28Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I don't know. That's kind of the.

• 21:32Dr. John Delony?

  How often do you all sleep together?

• 21:36Speaker 02

  In terms of like sexually or?

• 21:39Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  Not very often. That was one thing she wanted to uh step away from fairly early on in the marriage.

• 21:51Dr. John Delony?

  So for 15 years, you've been dealing with a living with in in somewhat of a sexless marriage?

• 21:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:01Dr. John Delony?

  And why no kids?

• 22:04Speaker 02

  Um, couple of reasons. When we were first married, we were very poor.

• 22:09Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  Um, so that uh we didn't feel comfortable bringing in kids into a uh household that was that way. Uh, and then as we progressed and were able to uh get more finances taken care of. Um, when I brought up the the idea of children, she was not super sensitive to that. She was really scared of like the uh physical pain. She didn't want to become a person like her mother. She was very afraid of the unknown. And I said, okay, well, we can we can work through that together. Let's let's take, you know, the first step. She's had some medical issues in the past and so we went and got those addressed and um that caused uh some questions and some issues with her family and

• 22:54Speaker 02

  um because her family got involved, all of a sudden it was, okay, now we know how kids.

• 23:02Dr. John Delony?

  Why have you done this for 15 years? Just out of curiosity?

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Because every time it gets brought up, she says that she'll try. And I don't know if I'm just too cowardly to step away, or if I'm just too

• 23:22Speaker 02

  wrapped up in the idea that maybe she'll try this time.

• 23:27Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I mean, you and I could probably talk for a couple hours and unpack that one. I guess for whatever it's worth, she has left you. She left you a long, long time ago.

• 23:40Dr. John Delony?

  She quit this marriage ages ago.

• 23:45Dr. John Delony?

  And I don't know what she gets out of it. I don't know if it's financial security. I don't know if it is anchor security. I don't know what it is, but she spends most of her time with her family. She told you early on, sex is not going to be part of this. Sex and intimacy, which is a cornerstone of any romantic relationship. I'm not, we're not doing that. I don't want to build a future with you. I'm going to walk out of a therapist's office who says, I need to invest more in this relationship, this primary, like the highest order relationship in my life, when somebody says, hey, you need to invest in that. Well, then, fine, screw you, I quit. We're not going to have kids. Like, she's opted out completely.

• 24:27Dr. John Delony?

  And so I guess, if nothing else, just hear me say, y'all still have a piece of paper, but she left this marriage a long time ago. Y'all just happen to share a house a few nights a week, when she's not at her parents' house.

• 24:42Dr. John Delony?

  And if that's the life you want to choose, if that's the life, if fidelity means,

• 24:50Dr. John Delony?

  I said till death was part, and so be it, then I'll honor that choice for you. But what you will get is a continuation of what you've got, what you've, your life has been. And so I would tell you, make peace with it.

• 25:03Dr. John Delony?

  If you're down to birthday and Christmas sex and that's it, and she spends two days a week at home and the other five days with her parents, and that's just our life, then I would tell you to don't fight that. Make peace with it. It is what it is. If you want more for your life and you're recognizing that fidelity can mean, or marriage cheating, if you will, to use a craft word, cheating in a marriage can be with another person. It can be with money. It can be on a golf course. It could be by just starving the marriage until it withers away to ash, right? Just not watering the plant until it just dies. I have a much bigger view of fidelity in a marriage than most people do, but that's just me.

• 25:48Dr. John Delony?

  But I guess hearing, like, you've done every single thing I would have told you to do. And it sounds like you fought for this marriage in every way I would have told you to fight for it.

• 26:02Speaker 02

  Well, that's comforting at least. I know that I've tried everything. Because whenever you say that to people, they're like, "Oh, well, there's gotta be something."

• 26:09Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, you've gone to therapy. You've stuck it out for a decade and a half. You have made concessions. You have dealt with a lack of physical intimacy. I mean, it's just been one thing after another, after another, after another. When she is honest, what does she blame you for?

• 26:28Speaker 02

  Everything.

• 26:29Dr. John Delony?

  Well, give me some examples.

• 26:34Speaker 02

  She's blamed me for the relationship with her parents. In the sense that if there's anything that is wrong for that week, or that day, or whatever, then it's my fault because I didn't insert reason. She's blamed me for the reason why she's gained weight. She's blamed me for the reason why she's not happy with her work situation.

• 26:59Dr. John Delony?

  Those aren't even good blames.

• 27:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:03Dr. John Delony?

  If she blamed you for being a jerk, or for always yelling at her, or for being physically oppressive, I mean...

• 27:10Dr. John Delony?

  But you just rattled off a series of decisions that she has chosen to make that she's blaming you for. So that she blames you for everything that she doesn't like about herself in her own life.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:21Dr. John Delony?

  What does she celebrate you for?

• 27:24Speaker 02

  Uh, nothing. Uh, I mean, as far as, again, it feels that, like, I had a fairly large milestone last year in my career.

• 27:36Dr. John Delony?

  What's that?

• 27:37Speaker 02

  And, uh, I earned my dirty mess license.

• 27:40Dr. John Delony?

  Congratulations, brother. It's a long time coming, man.

• 27:43Speaker 02

  It was. And it was a, it was a serious deal for me, and I told her the night before everything was finalized, and she's like, "Oh, well, great. It's, uh, you won't be so busy anymore." And that was where it ended.

• 27:57Dr. John Delony?

  Hmm.

• 28:02Dr. John Delony?

  I hate this for you, man.

• 28:06Dr. John Delony?

  Because if I'm hearing your side of the story right, you're a guy that's been grinding it out.

• 28:13Dr. John Delony?

  Making a quarter or half of what the wage is in your, in your field for years, crawling through hot attics, cleaning buildings, or going in to cut sheet rock and fixing things in buildings with no air conditioning for years and years and years to try and provide some sort of stability for a partner who repeatedly tells you, both in word and action, "I don't value you, I don't love you, I don't want you around here."

• 28:45Dr. John Delony?

  And, for whatever it's worth, man, you deserve a partner that's different than that.

• 28:52Dr. John Delony?

  I absolutely hate this for you, I'm sorry.

• 29:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, like I said, I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about it all. And like you said, if I can make peace or not.

• 29:15Dr. John Delony?

  Here's the thing, I think you, I think you're scared of...

• 29:20Dr. John Delony?

  I think you know how you feel about it. You wouldn't have called me.

• 29:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think I'm scared of both options. I don't really wanna start over. I mean, it's been 15 years. There's a lot of investment. I mean, we've paid off the house and, you know, we're driving paid off vehicles and, you know, that's the financial side, but also invested time and energy in keeping this relationship together and...

• 29:45Dr. John Delony?

  No, no, no, hold on, hold on, hold on. No, y'all haven't. Y'all have not at all. You have.

• 29:54Dr. John Delony?

  You have.

• 29:58Dr. John Delony?

  Y'all have not invested in keeping this relationship together one bit. You have.

• 30:07Dr. John Delony?

  And that's an exhausting, tiresome, frustrating, heartbreaking partnership, marriage.

• 30:19Dr. John Delony?

  You don't have a ride or die here. You have somebody that just complains when you drive the motorcycle out of town.

• 30:28Dr. John Delony?

  There's a thing in business called sunk cost fallacy, which is I've already invested this much money in this company, so I have to keep investing more money. And successful people will tell you, there's a time when you realize, if I put another penny in this, then I'm just setting this money on fire.

• 30:51Dr. John Delony?

  Make peace with it, and this is the life you want to say, "I've chose this life, and I'm gonna make peace with it." Awesome. Then, what I would tell you is, you have to decide, "I'm not gonna complain, or whine, or be frustrated by any of this madness. I'm choosing this on a day-to-day basis." So be it. I'll high-five you. Where is America? You can make those kind of choices all day long.

• 31:11Dr. John Delony?

  I'll also tell you, if nobody's told you this, you're worth more than somebody who blames you for every breath you take inside your own house, who doesn't celebrate with you, who left this marriage years ago, and blames you every minute there's tension in the house.

• 31:30Dr. John Delony?

  Your next move is yours, my brother, and I'll support you either way.

• 31:35Dr. John Delony?

  But man, you're worth being loved recklessly and celebrated, and, iron sharpens iron, held accountable.

• 31:43Dr. John Delony?

  You're worth a lot, lot more. All right, listen, when we come back, a man shares his struggles trying to find ways to love his wife better. We'll be right back.

• 31:56Dr. John Delony?

  Let's talk about digital privacy and Delete Me. Does anyone else feel like our digital footprints are starting to feel more like digital trails leading bad guys right back to us? And now scammers are using phishing attacks? That's phishing with a P-H. Where they trick you into giving them something by pretending to know you? You might get an email, a text, or a phone call, and the person or AI bot on the other end sounds like someone who's trying to look out for you and take care of you, but instead they rip you off? With all this new technology, no one is really safe. So the question I have is, what are we supposed to do? First, you can start by controlling what you can control. You can learn about how to be careful online and offline, and you can sign up with Delete Me.

• 32:39Dr. John Delony?

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• 33:24Dr. John Delony?

  Let's go out to brother Gerard in Brighton, Tennessee. What's up Gerard?

• 33:30Speaker 03

  Hey, sir, how you doing today?

• 33:31Dr. John Delony?

  Dude, rocking on to the break of dawn. What you doing, man?

• 33:35Speaker 03

  I love it, man. I am sitting here about to talk to you.

• 33:37Dr. John Delony?

  Outstanding.

• 33:38Speaker 03

  I am dangerously close to fantastic.

• 33:40Dr. John Delony?

  That's a good place to be. That is a good place to be. Kelly has never been there. She has never been to fantastic.

• 33:48Speaker 03

  Well, maybe one day.

• 33:49Dr. John Delony?

  Well, I think her life is fantastic because she works with me, but she disagrees, but such it is. So what's up, brother?

• 33:56Speaker 03

  Love it. Well, John, I have a two-part question for you. You mention oftentimes in your show that to ask your spouse and to give your spouse a roadmap to your heart.

• 34:12Speaker 03

  And so I thought about that many times when I've heard you share that. My question, first question is, how can I build that roadmap for my wife, my spouse? And then the second part is, how can I better create an environment where she can do the same for me?

• 34:33Dr. John Delony?

  It's a great question.

• 34:36Dr. John Delony?

  Um, what do you? Why or how, and both of those questions, by the way, are questions counselors aren't really supposed to ask. Why, lucky for you, I'm not a counselor, I'm just a YouTuber. Why or how do you feel you're not able to tell your wife what you want?

• 34:53Speaker 03

  I think that's probably the deeper question is, I don't understand why it's so hard for me to know what I need.

• 35:04Dr. John Delony?

  Forget what you need. What do you want?

• 35:06Speaker 03

  What do I want? Peace.

• 35:09Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. What does that mean? Be specific.

• 35:14Speaker 03

  Be specific. Um, sorry if it's loud. It's starting to rain here in the car.

• 35:18Dr. John Delony?

  Does she yell, does she yell at you? It's all right, man. Does she yell at you?

• 35:23Speaker 03

  Uh, no.

• 35:24Dr. John Delony?

  Does she not like you? Let me rattle off a few things. Just answer yes or no. Does she, does she not like you?

• 35:31Speaker 03

  I think she likes me.

• 35:32Dr. John Delony?

  Does she seem disappointed in you?

• 35:35Speaker 03

  Probably, but probably even bigger, I'm probably disappointed in myself.

• 35:38Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, does she roll her eyes at you?

• 35:42Speaker 03

  She can do that, yes.

• 35:44Dr. John Delony?

  Does she think, by action, not even by words, does she think she's, she does life better than you?

• 35:53Speaker 03

  I don't think so, no.

• 35:54Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, um, do you want more sex and intimacy in your marriage?

• 36:04Speaker 03

  I would like better connection while, while it's happening, yes.

• 36:08Dr. John Delony?

  What, what does that mean?

• 36:11Speaker 03

  Just more, more connection and instead of just an act.

• 36:16Dr. John Delony?

  On her end or your end? When you're having sex, you want her to actually like it? Is that what you're saying? Or are you still replaying?

• 36:23Speaker 03

  I think.

• 36:25Dr. John Delony?

  Other activities, I mean, other actions, people you've been with in your head?

• 36:29Speaker 03

  No, no, definitely not that on my end. Um, just where we're both freed up enough and our minds clear so we can actually just enjoy each other. Granted, we do have a toddler, so that's, that's a given.

• 36:41Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 36:41Speaker 03

  There's a lot there. Um, but yeah, just maybe distracted would be a good way to put it. But for me, for me, just it's hard for me, it's hard for me to put that list together of how to get to my heart because oftentimes I feel selfish when I'm making that list, like, oh, I shouldn't ask for that, or oh, I shouldn't do this.

• 37:03Dr. John Delony?

  So what's, what's more selfish? What's more selfish? Having some things in your marriage and in your life that you want?

• 37:11Dr. John Delony?

  And that another person could help you with? Or is it more selfish to not say the things that you want and or need? And then to blame that person for not giving them to you?

• 37:25Speaker 03

  No, that's spot on. That's good.

• 37:30Dr. John Delony?

  The least selfish thing you could do is to put your wants and needs on the table. And by the way, I, I'm becoming more bearish on the word needs. Food, water, oxygen, that's what people need.

• 37:43Speaker 03

  Right.

• 37:43Dr. John Delony?

  They want sex and intimacy. They want you to help with the dishes, for God's sake. They want to not have to work a full-time job and then come home and have to work another full-time job and also get you off before you go to bed because you're gonna throw a temper tantrum. Right? Those are all wants.

• 38:01Dr. John Delony?

  What do you think she wants?

• 38:07Speaker 03

  Security, uh, consistency.

• 38:11Dr. John Delony?

  Stop with those two.

• 38:12Speaker 03

  Schedule.

• 38:12Dr. John Delony?

  Stop with those two. Why are you not safe?

• 38:18Speaker 03

  It's been a hard financial season for us.

• 38:20Dr. John Delony?

  What does that mean?

• 38:22Speaker 03

  Uh, a death of a dream. Um, I worked on a business, um, for, for multiple years and, uh, it, it looked like it was going really, really well. Um, and then it all fell apart, uh, very quickly. Uh, and so there's a lot of dreams, I think, that were lost in that.

• 38:41Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 38:42Speaker 03

  Um.

• 38:43Dr. John Delony?

  Are you working now?

• 38:45Speaker 03

  I'm currently, uh, not, no.

• 38:48Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. By the end of tomorrow, you have to have a job, whether it's at Walmart, whether it's at a yard crew, you gotta have something, okay?

• 38:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:58Dr. John Delony?

  And here's why. It's about dignity and it's about respect. And yes, she'll come along, but you don't respect you right now?

• 39:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:09Dr. John Delony?

  And when people don't work, they lose their sense of purpose and dignity in themselves.

• 39:16Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? This will be about you at least feeling like you're contributing in some short way.

• 39:24Speaker 03

  I feel that.

• 39:25Dr. John Delony?

  So if you came home and said, hey, this dream died, it, it may have died to the tune of now we're in the hole, $500,000 or a million bucks in debt, or it might've died, we don't owe anybody any money, but man, I was all in on this thing. How long have you been out of work?

• 39:42Speaker 03

  So I do, I do, uh, like contracting work, like a security work.

• 39:46Dr. John Delony?

  When's the last time you brought home a paycheck?

• 39:50Speaker 03

  Uh, a week and a half ago.

• 39:52Dr. John Delony?

  More than a thousand dollars?

• 39:55Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 39:55Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So you're working.

• 39:58Speaker 03

  Yes, off and on, it's been inconsistent. So I'll have a really good paying job for a month and then there won't be anything for a couple of weeks and then another gig will come around. But I want to provide a stable, more stable environment where she knows when I'm going to be home. We know what our bills are every month and not the kind of up and down.

• 40:18Dr. John Delony?

  Give yourself six months of working two jobs that you clock in and clock out of.

• 40:24Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 40:24Dr. John Delony?

  And put on a uniform and be frustrated that you're going to flip burgers or make eggs in the morning or that you're driving Uber for somebody. I don't know how much driving's going on in Brighton, but.

• 40:36Speaker 03

  Not much.

• 40:37Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, probably not. But give yourself, go throw boxes at Tractor Supply from 8:00 PM, I mean from 3:00 PM till 11:00 PM.

• 40:46Dr. John Delony?

  And look your wife in the eye and say, I've just been sitting here waiting for life to happen and I've allowed you to feel unsafe and I'm sorry, tomorrow I'm going back to work.

• 40:57Dr. John Delony?

  And this isn't going to be my forever job, but this is going to be my right now job.

• 41:05Speaker 03

  Word.

• 41:06Dr. John Delony?

  Is that fair?

• 41:07Speaker 03

  Do that. No, it is fair.

• 41:09Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. What was the next one you said? You said consistency. How are you not consistent?

• 41:18Speaker 03

  Don't take this the wrong way, John, but I'm a lot like you.

• 41:21Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 41:22Speaker 03

  I'm a creative brain, I'm an energetic brain, I get bored easy. I like change.

• 41:31Speaker 03

  And I think she's more analytical, very task oriented. She's extremely organized, she's incredible, making lists and whatnot. I'm not that way necessarily.

• 41:44Speaker 03

  And I think for her, a good schedule is important, but honestly, some of that is part of the work is they travel with me when I've done contracts. And I think she wants more of a consistency for her, for our daughter and for me. So a schedule just. Knowing we're gonna get up at the same time every day and this is a routine and I think that that gives her a sense of security, a sense of um of health. She also wants to see me healthy. Um I've

• 42:19Dr. John Delony?

  That's it.

• 42:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:21Dr. John Delony?

  So you we are alike in that way, except the number of days I've been married and not had a job are zero.

• 42:30Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 42:31Dr. John Delony?

  I've never not had a job. I've been miserable, but I didn't quit until I found the new one. I've thought I was gonna get laid off and I made sure I had four other lines in the water.

• 42:42Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 42:44Dr. John Delony?

  And my wife got up two and a half hours before I did this morning. Because I was in another city last night and my plane didn't get in until super late and I didn't get into bed until early this morning. And so consistency, people will often default to the thing that they need to anchor into because the other person isn't a safe anchor. So sometimes that's booze, sometimes it's a calendar, sometimes it's pornography, sometimes it's work. My wife knows she can anchor into me and so some mornings we get up at the same time, some we don't.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 43:25Dr. John Delony?

  And so I don't want you to, because what you're gonna make your, what's happening right now is you're starting to make yourself the martyr on behalf of her. She needs this calendar, she needs us to both get up at the same time, she needs this routine. She needs her husband to have a purpose.

• 43:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's true.

• 43:45Dr. John Delony?

  She needs her husband to say, I've, I, well, if she wants to stay home with this baby, I've got us. And just because I get a job on a random Tuesday doesn't mean the whole family has to pack up and go. My wife and kids didn't go with me yesterday. They've got school, they've got work, they've got lives.

• 44:07Dr. John Delony?

  And so I have the illusion of chaos, but my chaos runs on a treadmill that is bolted into the bedrock of the earth. Do you get what I'm saying?

• 44:16Speaker 03

  No.

• 44:17Dr. John Delony?

  I'm a chaotic mess, but dude, there's some things I don't compromise on. I take care of my physical health and I take care of my mental health and I take care of my marriage. Cause I've been in seasons when I didn't prioritize those three things and it didn't go good. And I prioritize my career.

• 44:32Speaker 03

  I'm in that season.

• 44:37Dr. John Delony?

  Well, I mean, even if you said you were going back to school. Cause I'm gonna ask you, like, what are you gonna do with that brain that likes novelty, that likes excitement? Go be a cop. That likes new things every weekend, that likes things not the same, but kind of the same. Go, go be a therapist. Go be a firefighter. Go, go start a lawn business and take, you know, you get what I'm saying?

• 45:04Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Yeah. No, I get it. I need a purpose. I need, she needs to see me pursuing something.

• 45:13Dr. John Delony?

  Let me say this. I'm saying this not, I'm gonna use the word cheating and that sounds ridiculous. I'm not, I'm not saying that in this case, but it just makes for a funny word, okay? Right now, she's having an affair with her calendar, cause that's the safest, most stable thing she knows.

• 45:27Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 45:33Dr. John Delony?

  I want her to have an affair with you. I want her to fall in love with the guy that she fell in love with before, the dreamer, the guy that was starting a business, the guy that was all in, the guy that worked late hours, the guy that was trying to make things happen, that was hustling and moving. I want that guy to come back. And that guy got knocked out. Every fighter gets knocked out.

• 45:55Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 45:56Dr. John Delony?

  What was the job you were doing?

• 45:58Speaker 03

  The business?

• 46:01Dr. John Delony?

  Uh huh.

• 46:02Speaker 03

  It was in defense industry.

• 46:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. What did you like about defense?

• 46:13Speaker 03

  Creating, um, building something, not necessarily building something, but creating something, uh, using my mind to mold and shape something and, um, yeah, building something from the ground up.

• 46:30Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, I didn't hear in that answer, keeping people safe. And so if the defense industry was just the particular place where you were allowed or you had permission to build things with your mind and create things, then you can build and create things at Home Depot, you can do that in the construction business, you can do that in the mental health space, you can do that at churches, you can do that anywhere. If you are put on earth to keep people safe, then go sign up for the police academy tomorrow.

• 47:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's definitely my, uh, definitely one of my purposes to keep people safe.

• 47:13Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 47:14Speaker 03

  Um, I, the, the police, uh, been there, done that, and, uh, the, uh, the schedule and the constant, uh, stress level was just, uh, it was not my, not my jam, um, so I have high respect for anybody that can do that, but it wouldn't have been good for my mental health.

• 47:32Dr. John Delony?

  It's a tough gig. How, how many jobs have you had since you've been married?

• 47:36Speaker 03

  Uh, two. Three.

• 47:44Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, how long have you been married?

• 47:46Speaker 03

  Three years.

• 47:48Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, that's a lot of change for her.

• 47:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:51Dr. John Delony?

  For a mom of a brand new baby.

• 47:53Speaker 03

  I get that.

• 47:57Dr. John Delony?

  And can I also?

• 48:00Speaker 03

  Grounding, like you said.

• 48:01Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, it's just, it's just she gotta have something to anchor into. Um, can I tell you what I think would really help with this anchoring conversation?

• 48:07Speaker 03

  Please.

• 48:09Dr. John Delony?

  You find somebody, not her, you find somebody that can keep your baby for a few hours and take her out.

• 48:19Dr. John Delony?

  And just say, "I've grieved the loss of this business long enough. You've got to have something to anchor into. So I'm just saying, out of the front of the gate, I'm sorry, we got married three years ago. I've been through three jobs, which looked like three different careers. And I'm looking unstable to you, and I get the fact that you're holding this baby tight, and you are feel like you're lost in the wind. I get it. And would you be willing to build a second marriage with me?" And my guess is she's gonna say absolutely yes.

• 48:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:51Dr. John Delony?

  And then ask her, "What must be true for you to feel safe?" And you see what I'm saying? Here's why this is important in this order. It's you going, taking a knee at that table.

• 49:04Dr. John Delony?

  "I've provided this. I've provided this lack of stability. I've run through three careers. And by the way, bro, I've been through so many careers at this point. Who cares?

• 49:14Dr. John Delony?

  But here we are. I don't have a job. I've got, things are fishy. I'm sorry that I put you here. Will you rebuild something new?" "Absolutely, Gerard. I love you. Let's do it." "Okay, cool. How can I love you, starting right now?"

• 49:28Dr. John Delony?

  "By the way, we gotta be done here at 3:00, because I go to work."

• 49:31Speaker 03

  "What?"

• 49:32Dr. John Delony?

  "Yeah, I go to work. I'm going to Tractor Supply. 16 bucks an hour. I'm start tonight. And as for me and my house, I'm gonna clock in and clock out, because there's no job beneath me when it comes to providing and giving my wife stability and safety. I'll do this for six months, and while I'm doing this for six months, or a year, I'm gonna be applying out to other jobs. I'm gonna be going to see a counselor. I'm gonna be talking to people so that I can begin to get my feet underneath me. And what you're gonna find is you're in the ocean, and you feel like you're drowning, but the water's only three feet deep. Once you stand up, it's gonna come up to your waist, and you'll be like, 'Oh, man, I'm good.' But right now, it feels like you're out at sea, and that's okay."

• 50:11Dr. John Delony?

  I'm really grateful for the call, brother. You call me anytime, we'll get you to the front of the line and I'll walk with you every step of the way. Every step of the way. But today, we're gonna start with action. No more thinking about it. We can still grieve the loss of this business, but we're gonna go and we're gonna take action. Thanks for the call, man. All right, coming up next, something awesome happened and Kelly's gonna tell us about it. And no, she did not get her tattoos removed. We'll be right back.

• 50:39Dr. John Delony?

  All right, Stallone again to talk about my friends at Organifi. Every day, I talk to people who feel overwhelmed, and I don't just mean emotionally. They're physically worn out, they're mentally burned out, they're anxious, not sleeping well, they just feel foggy and disconnected from everything. And most of them are trying to push through with a combination of coffee and willpower. Can we all just agree, what you're doing probably isn't working? Redlining your body every minute of every day is burning you and your loved ones to the ground, and that's where Organifi comes in. Organifi makes organic superfood blends and gummies, I love the gummies, that are designed to support your body, your mind,

• 51:20Dr. John Delony?

  and even your emotions, and not set everything on fire. You just mix Organifi's superfood blends with water and you're good to rock and roll. And for me, that's green juice in the morning for focus, red juice in the morning and in the afternoon for clean energy without the crash, and I love my happy drops to boost my mood, and the She Legit gummies help me feel like a laser beam. Look, most people don't have to overhaul their entire lives to start feeling better. You just have to listen to your body and make some small daily choices, and you can start with my friends at Organifi. Go to organifi.com/stallone and use code STALLONE to save 20% off. That's 20% off everything with code STALLONE at organifi.com/stallone.

• 52:05Dr. John Delony?

  All right, Kelly, what's something awesome that happened?

• 52:07Speaker 04

  All right, this is from Jessica in Salem, Oregon.

• 52:11Dr. John Delony?

  Ooh, which trials?

• 52:12Speaker 04

  That's Salem, Massachusetts.

• 52:13Dr. John Delony?

  Wrong Salem. Right when I said it.

• 52:15Speaker 04

  Yep. All right, so she writes...

• 52:18Dr. John Delony?

  You were like, "I was there." Trust me.

• 52:24Dr. John Delony?

  Dude, that was a deep cut right there. That was a witch joke and an age joke.

• 52:27Speaker 04

  I know. I less, uh, take less offense about the witch part.

• 52:30Dr. John Delony?

  A hundred percent.

• 52:31Speaker 04

  More about the age part.

• 52:32Dr. John Delony?

  Fair enough. That's exactly right.

• 52:34Speaker 04

  All right. She writes, "I started listening to John about a year and a half ago. About a year ago, my husband and I started talking about how to pursue peace in our life. We realized that it started with our home and our finances and decided to reverse engineer it. We sold the home that we'd lived in for less than two years in an unsafe part of town and moved into an apartment so we could save it for a house that was peaceful and pay off the last of my husband's school loans. Thanks to an unexpected windfall and despite some hardships, we arrived at our goal much sooner than expected and are now moving into our blessing house with cash to spare for some updates, new furniture, and a good-sized emergency fund. The steps we took to reverse engineer peace actually caused a much more peaceful way of life before we ever achieved the goal. Thank you."

• 53:18Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome. Dude, I love, love, love. I want to start that movement, Kelly. Stop solving for some dollar amount. Stop, solve for peace. Just whatever that looks like in your house, wherever you happen to be, I'm gonna solve for peace. And that doesn't mean you're not gonna have seasons of great Looney Tune chaos. That's great. But overall, we are solving for, we're headed towards, ah, so happy I'm home. That's awesome. What was her name?

• 53:48Speaker 04

  Jessica from Salem, Oregon.

• 53:50Dr. John Delony?

  Way to go, Jessica from Salem, Oregon. That's all I'm gonna say about that. I'm proud of you. Good call. If only Kelly could also find peace. Peace out. Later.