#86 Laird Hamilton - Near-Death Surf Experiences and Surviving JAWS | Part 2

Laird Hamilton is a legendary American big wave surfer, known for riding some of the most dangerous waves ever to break. Laird is also a fitness icon and creator of Laird Superfood. Part two is the story of Hamilton's incredible surfing career. He recounts his struggle to find his footing among an industry set on sponsors and rules and how he ultimately became a trend setter rather than a follower. Shawn and Laird discuss "bio-hacking" and how Laird Superfood was created. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://lairdsuperfood.com - USE CODE "SRS" https://drinkhoist.com - USE CODE "SHAWN" https://gcu.edu/military Laird Hamilton Links: Website - https://lairdsuperfood.com Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/F859FC96-07C4-4ED8-952A-9CA41B8B784F Instagram - https://instagram.com/lairdsuperfood?igshid=NGVhN2U2NjQ0Yg%3D%3D&utm_source=qr Tiktok - https://www.tiktok.com/@lairdsuperfood?_t=8hPulnwWiXy&_r=1 Youtube - https://youtube.com/@LairdSuperfood?si=rjEDqFoHVJU01BQH Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/lairdsuperfood Please leave us a review on Apple & Spotify Podcasts. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website | Patreon | TikTok | Instagram | Download Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  College football is back. So Hilton called to me, the superstition concierge, to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching band wake-up call at 5:55 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Born in Roma Fragrances by Valentino Beauty, the iconic fragrance duo. Donna Born in Roma Eau de Parfum is a feminine fragrance featuring juicy black currant, central jasmine, woody cashmerin, and warm vanilla. Its masculine counterpart, Womo Born in Roma Eau de Toilette, has notes of fresh violet leaf, aromatic sage, green vetiver, spicy ginger, and mineral salt. Shop at Macy's.com.

• 1:00Shawn Ryan?

  Previously on The Sean Ryan Show.

• 1:06Shawn Ryan?

  I know I've been blessed so much by the ocean.

• 1:19Speaker 03

  Laird Hamilton.

• 1:29Shawn Ryan?

  Stunt double for James Bond in the opening film, Die Another Day,

• 1:37Shawn Ryan?

  regarded by surf historians as the all-time best of the best at big wave surfing.

• 1:52Shawn Ryan?

  Laird Hamilton, welcome to the show, man.

• 2:00Speaker 04

  Laird Hamilton is a surfing pioneer and also an icon of the sport.

• 2:05Speaker 05

  Laird Hamilton has been making waves in the world of surfing for years.

• 2:09Speaker 04

  Hamilton shared how he always wanted to be a surfer.

• 2:16Shawn Ryan?

  Surfing is completely foreign to me.

• 2:19Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 2:19Shawn Ryan?

  So, excuse my ignorance on the subject. One thing I didn't realize is a wave, when you're talking about different waves, the names of them, that's not one, it's not actually one wave. It's a location.

• 2:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:37Shawn Ryan?

  How often do these, I mean, is it every set? What is it? You know, when we talk about, you know, the wave that you conquered, the Jaws, I mean, how often does that show up?

• 2:52Speaker 03

  Well, it depends on the season. And so it can be, it's normally during the winter when the storms are the biggest in the North Pacific. And so it can be, you know, there could be 20 days during the, during a three or four, like a four-month period. There could be only five days of real, like, truly big surf. There could be the biggest, there's usually like the biggest swell of the winter or the two biggest swells of the winter. And those can last the day, the day and a half, two days. So there's windows of time to be, that those happen.

• 3:32Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 3:33Speaker 03

  And so, and then all the variables. And then depending on that day, let's say, let's just say, okay, last year, this, you know, we had the swell of the winter was in January 25th or whatever, and it lasted for two days. But one day was the biggest day. And then during that, that day, there could be, you know, a three or four or five wave set in a group that comes in. And then there's a biggest wave during the, within those three or four waves. There's like one wave that's just predominantly bigger than the other ones. Maybe usually it's like the third wave of the set. Okay. And then there, and then there's, and then those groups are could be every 15 minutes. Could be every 10 minutes, could be every 20 minutes.

• 4:16Speaker 03

  Could be every hour, but it could be somewhere in that. And all of those different variables, whether there's five waves in the set or three waves in a set. And then the amount of sets and the separation between the sets are all reflective of, of the storms production and the way the storm is producing the waves. Because the storms are producing the waves with the wind and it's all about the rhythm of the storm. So if, if you have a, a, you know, a very powerful storm that's really, has really high winds and is really, you know, blowing consistently. It'll pump out a bunch of them. And if you really understood, like the Hawaiians were able to probably, I know they were, but it's a little bit like looking at the light of a star that's gone and being able to tell you what the star was.

• 4:58Speaker 03

  So they could look at the waves and tell you that they know what kind of storm that was and, and they could tell you all the characteristics about the storm. Even when you have that kind of intimacy, right? So now we have, you know, scientific measurements, things like spectral density, which is to actually how much, how strong the wave's energy is because the waves, so waves move vertically through the water. The energy's traveling, the water stays still, but the, the energy's traveling through, which makes the wave. The energy's traveling through the water. Uh, when you have like a, for example, a tidal wave, the tidal waves, uh, energy travels horizontally. That's why tidal waves go 300 miles an hour and waves travel at about 30, right?

• 5:43Speaker 03

  So there's a, so it's a pretty complex, I mean, within, you know, hey, waves in the ocean, you go out and surf, but when you start to understand, I mean, the truth about surfing or a truth about a good surfer is ultimately that you understand waves. You're actually a wave reader. You can look at waves. You know what they're gonna do. Like I, I could go to the beach and be with Gabby and we're watching us, you know, wave come in and I'll be like, oh yeah, that guy's gonna crash. And then he takes off and ride crashes and she go, how do you know he's gonna crash? Well, I could just tell the way he was moving at the speed he was moving and the way the wave was moving, that the wave was gonna break on him and knock him down. So, so, and that, and all of that, that's what takes the time. The actual standing up and riding aboard. I mean, that's the reward for the work, right?

• 6:25Shawn Ryan?

  Is that intuition or is that learned?

• 6:28Speaker 03

  Yes, which is it's intuition learnt. Both. Yes, the learn comes becomes intuition. So it's like the 10,000 hours, right? When you have that much volume of experience, it goes into the unconscious, which is the intuition. So you start to be able to, over time, you be able to sense like, you know what, that's gonna do that, right? But it but it's still connected to the all of that experience was was consciously learnt from observation and and time. And that's what takes time in surfing. The surfing, that's the real, the real thing is understanding that we're wave readers. That's why we can go anywhere in the world. It doesn't matter where we go in the world.

• 7:09Speaker 03

  We can go to any place in the world and we can tell you about the way we know what the wave's doing. We can tell you the bottom topography, like the way the bottom's shaped by the way the wind's breaking. Like, we know already, we already, we already know that the way the wave is moving, what the bottom shape is and what it's doing. Wow. So and that's just, again, that comes from all that time. And it's connected to like, like the guys being able to sail with the stars and look at the water texture and know that there's an island over there because they can see the refraction of the of the waves on the water coming from, you know, this is all that, all that stuff that, you know, they said the Eskimos had 300 names for snow. And I mean, you just, it's the things that when we were more intimate with nature.

• 7:53Speaker 03

  So surfing is really based on on that, like. And then there's locations all over the world that we seek out specifically for specific kinds of waves, like certain types of waves because of, you know, like in Tahiti has very unusual reefs, right? So they're coral reefs that grow in a way to absorb, absorb waves. So we have, you know, there's, there's, there's continental shelf waves, there's sandbar waves, there's beach, I mean, we have every different kind of, you know, we have every different kind of of wave that you can think of.

• 8:32Shawn Ryan?

  You know, you were considered a pro surfer at age seventeen, correct?

• 8:36Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 8:37Shawn Ryan?

  What is it that...

• 8:39Speaker 03

  Defines that?

• 8:39Shawn Ryan?

  Yes.

• 8:40Speaker 03

  You make money.

• 8:41Shawn Ryan?

  Because you weren't a competitor.

• 8:43Speaker 03

  No.

• 8:43Shawn Ryan?

  Correct?

• 8:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:45Shawn Ryan?

  So...

• 8:45Speaker 03

  I know that kind of messes you up a little bit because I made a professional career in surfing.

• 8:51Shawn Ryan?

  How did you get noticed? I mean, what was it about you?

• 8:55Speaker 03

  The way I was surfing.

• 8:56Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 8:57Speaker 03

  What I was doing, yeah. Yeah, because surfing is unusual in the sense of...

• 9:04Speaker 03

  And I guess you can't use mountain rock climbing, but in a way it has this weird... Like, when I grew up, so when I grew up, there were great surfers that were like the best surfers at some of the best waves in the world. And then there were guys that were good in contests, right? And they would go out in a contest at Huntington or at a surf spot, and they would win, and they were known for surfing in a contest against other surfers. And then there were, and those same guys could come to this spot, but the guy that was the best surfer at this spot, you still, the best surfer in the world couldn't compete with him. Then it started to kind of merge a little bit as it went, but there was a real separation between art of surfing, the art of it, and then the competitive side when I was young.

• 9:49Speaker 03

  And actually, the art of it was bigger than the competitive part. You know, the truth is, is that you can, you know, the whole thing about being a competitor is that you're in a contest, they publicize the contest, people see the contest, you have sponsors, they pay you because people are going to see you. Now, if you go ride a giant wave and you're in a movie, and then people are going to see you, then sponsors are going to pay. So, at the end, you're still, the outcome is still the same thing, right? It's just that normally, in sports, you have platforms, right? You have, you're a professional tennis player, and there's no opportunity for some guy to do trick shots or be a great player without playing in tournaments because they define that through scoring points, right?

• 10:32Speaker 03

  Surfing is a little bit more ambiguous, it's a little bit more like music or some kind of art where if you, if I go and surf and then they take pictures of me and make movies of me surfing, and then you have people that love it. They go, yeah, they love the pictures, they buy, they watch the movies.

• 10:53Speaker 03

  Well, that's, that's, that I have, I can make a career doing that, right? Or I can be a competitor and I can go on a tour and I can beat the other surfers and I can be the world champ. And then you could make a career doing that. Now, my thing was is that I watched my father, who was known as one of these most aesthetic surfers in the world, also surf competitively. I, I watched, in my, in my, in my young impression, the, the, the, the judgment? The judgment? The, the, how come the American gymnast at the Russian Olympic event got second and maybe she should have won or kind of thing?

• 11:38Speaker 03

  So I watched the judgment. And so I didn't want to subject my, my performance. And, and I think I'm naturally like, I'm, I'm, I'm so competitive, it brings out the worst in me. It's like, it's just, I'm not good at that. Like I'll, you know, I break the pickleball rackets with my daughter when we play in the backyard. Like it's just, I'm not good at that. Like, it's just not good. Like, it's not, it's, no, it's just not good. I'm just saying, it's just not good. It's like, I, I, I mean, it's, I can do it and I barely can keep control of it when it's like, you know, in my yard. But, uh, so I know that that brings out the worst to me. So I watched, anyway, I watched my dad go through that. I watched his rejection from, you know, maybe surfing the best he had ever surfed

• 12:23Speaker 03

  in this one event and I was, it was, and, and watched him get, lose by a half a point to a guy that was the world champ. And it was like, would he win? Did he not win? And there was this, all this ambiguous stuff around it. And so I thought, you know what? I never want to subject myself to that. And my idea was if I could surf the best, and when I say surf the best, surf in a way that, that, that no one else is surfing. Like surf at a level and do a thing in the biggest.

• 12:52Speaker 03

  That that would be the most definable, that you couldn't, there would be no.

• 12:56Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 12:57Speaker 03

  There would be no, like, sorry, you didn't make the point or whatever it would be like, because I felt that the biggest waves, if you could ride the biggest waves with the biggest performance, that that would be the most clear defined thing that there was. And so that's that was, that's really been my approach. I mean, I dabbled, I windsurf competitively, speed sailed, that was with time. I paddle boarded, I love, I mean paddleboard racing, like, on your market said, go, all about that, no problem, because clocks don't have opinions. They just go tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. I mean, there were some other, you know, crap that goes around that stuff, but for me, that was real, those are defined things, but this other, you know, judgment around your performance.

• 13:41Shawn Ryan?

  So you, you basically did want to conform your style of surfing to the opinions of the, the, the so-called relative.

• 13:50Speaker 03

  The judges, the judgment.

• 13:53Shawn Ryan?

  Because it would have changed your style. It wouldn't have been you.

• 13:56Speaker 03

  That's true. That's true. Non-conformist.

• 14:00Shawn Ryan?

  Nice.

• 14:02Speaker 03

  So, but, so I, that's the approach I went, and it made it harder, you know, it made it more difficult because I didn't get the support from the industry. Like, I wasn't getting support from it. And actually, I got notoriety more in Europe initially. I had a 15 or 20 year career in Europe and, and technically even to this day, I never really got any support from the surf industry in America, which was where all the money was, truth. Like, I'd never had a real American sponsor. Once I, I built my whole thing in Europe, and then I built it through doing multiple things. So I started, I would, I would windsurf, snowboard, big wave ride. I was doing all these different disciplines. The, the French love that variety. I got support from Europe, still never really got

• 14:47Speaker 03

  love here. Finally got some love more later in my career here in, in America, but never support from the surf industry itself. I got acceptance, like I rode a crazy wave in Tahiti. We developed this technique to be told. in right so we developed a techniques that that allowed us to ride bigger waves than it'd ever been ridden by being towed by a first by a zodiac because that's what we had in the beginning and I grew up driving the Zodiac who is we? a group of friends of mine okay yeah so I have a friend of a group of friends this guy buzzy kerbox Derek donor couple other guys that were like minded and and but I developed this technique around being towed

• 15:29Speaker 03

  in which allowed us to ride waves that had never been ridden so that and that kind of broke the whole thing open about we were riding waves just so much bigger than it had ever been served

• 15:41Speaker 03

  and so that that that that allowed me to ride a wave in Tahiti they got some crazy acknowledgement which kind of almost was like I got acceptance for the first time because normally what I was doing was oh he's over there doing that and that's not surfing and blah blah so I I didn't I wasn't getting a lot of love for a long time which I was used to that like I grew up that way so I think that that that tool like these tools that I got growing up that I always used to say you know if I if people don't like me for how I'm born why would you think I would be bothered for them not liking me for how I behave

• 16:21Speaker 03

  like why would I even like they don't I was born a way that they don't like me so you think that I'm gonna be offended like if they if how I'm acting they don't like I could care less so I think things like that allowed me to kind of not be affected by peer pressure like I didn't I you weren't gonna peer pressure me you weren't gonna be like hey that's not socially acceptable or people don't think it's cool like I wasn't usually when people didn't think it was cool and I was doing it I was like oh I'm on the right track I'm right on the right track I know I'm on the right track I'm getting resistance because I'm used to that I'm used to resistance like oh yeah like if I'm not getting resistance I'm kind of like huh maybe I'm not going on the right direction maybe I need to turn and go some other direction where I'm getting it so I think there

• 17:05Speaker 03

  was things and if you look and it ended up all of those things moved into innovation because because

• 17:16Speaker 03

  In the process when you have, when you're creative, right, and you have an idea. So you think about like I, some of these ideas that I have, like let's say, talk about stand up paddling. As an idea, okay, you got stand up paddling, like, cool. So I get out there, first of all, the reason why I started stand up paddling was because my first daughter came. And I'm like, I want to take my daughter surfing, but I'm only going to put her on a big board with me. But I have to learn how to ride these big boards first. So I built these giant boards and I started surfing on them, getting used to them before I put her with me. At one point, I'm standing on the board and I think it was windy and it blew me back out and I'm like, it's like, I don't even want to lay back down, I would be, what if I just had a paddle? So my friend had some paddle for canoe and I went out and I started paddling.

• 18:00Speaker 03

  And then I had the little epiphany, I'm like, well, this is amazing. So I went in, I had a guy build me a tall paddle, I started paddling. Can't tell you how many people, oh, that's, what is that crap? What are you doing? That's not surfing, blah, blah, blah, blah, the whole thing. And I was just like, before you know it, I'm like, okay, I'm surfing, I'm paddling across channels. Then pretty soon it's like, oh, now it's a sport, now people are racing, people now they got guys, you know, in Dubai with turbans paddling, I go, yeah, that was a pretty stupid idea. But, but, no, I'm just saying, but, but the resistance, I could have easily been swayed from that by having people go, hey, that's not, and being worried about there if they were, you know, I just had, again, I go off of that instinct, that feeling like, hey, you know what?

• 18:43Speaker 03

  You're on the, you're on to something, this is, this is magic, this is special, this is, you know, this is something unique, uh, and listening, again, listening to your gut and not, there, there's a famous woman who is an innovator and they asked her about, you know, what would, what would, what would, what should you do if you have a really good idea? And she says, don't tell anybody for a year, because they're going to only discourage you.

• 19:12Speaker 03

  And you, what you realize is that people, when you have ideas, they are gonna discourage you because, and I don't know what, what it is, maybe it's a human condition where like, maybe then they're not, if they, if they, they're not being responsible for their ideas, right? So they're like, oh yeah, you don't wanna do that, cuz then, then they don't have to maybe be responsible for an idea they have, cuz otherwise they have to do it. And you have to go through that process, right? It's, it's, it's a, I, I, I call it the formulaic process of learning, like of, or of innovating, where, and we talked about the formulas of life, like the morals of life, there's formulas, there's formulas for, for learning or innovation. One of them is, being a beginner, you gotta be cool with not being any good. You gotta suck.

• 19:57Speaker 03

  Like, I remember my, my Bill Hamilton, I was like, windsurfing came along, and it was like, you had a sail, and you're on a surfboard, all of a sudden you're going full speed and you can hit waves and fly in the air, and catch giant waves with this thing, and I'm like, this is the greatest thing ever. I go, you should try it. He goes, I don't wanna do that, I don't, I don't, I'm good at surfing. I know how to surf, I can go out and surf good. I don't wanna be a beginner and flop around for a month or two. And, and that held him back from ever doing it, because he was worried actually about being a beginner. He didn't wanna subject himself to being, but it's temporary. It's just a temporary moment that you're a beginner, and before you know it, all of a sudden, you are, oh my God, you're like, okay.

• 20:42Speaker 03

  And then all of a sudden, wow, you're good. Wow, you can really do it now. Like, it's like, that process is pretty short, and you're just a beginner for, but you have to be willing to, to subject yourself to maybe being laughed at. Oh, they're gonna laugh at you. Who cares? And then pretty soon, you're sitting back on the beach, and you're laughing at them, cuz then they see you finally get good enough, and they're like, that is cool, let me try. And then you get to watch them, you know, the tables turn, but, but you have to be okay with that. You gotta be okay with being laughed at. And, and I think that's not easy for people. That's not, it's not an easy thing to be, to be humiliated or laughed at, especially if you're good at something. You don't wanna be a beginner, like, I don't wanna do that, I don't wanna have to learn how.

• 21:24Speaker 03

  But everybody was a beginner once. Like you have to be willing to subject yourself. And then what I found was that that is a formula that you just subjected to the next thing. You do it once. Okay, do it. You do it twice. You do it three times. You pretty soon you do it 10 times. Then you're just like, next new thing. Okay, here we go. Okay, I'm just a beginner. Okay, now I'm a little better. Oh, now I can do it. Now I'm pretty good at it. And so it becomes, then you get addicted to that almost. That almost becomes more fun than actually being really good at something and trying to gain just small increments of improvement. That's, that's, you know, all the big part of the curve is in the initial part. That's where you get all that lift where you go from,

• 22:08Speaker 03

  I suck, I'm okay, wow, I can do it, you know? And once you're great, it's our good, and then you're trying to go to great, you're just fighting for like, Little meticulous. Minute little things and you could spend forever polishing the stone, but at a certain point just get a new one and, you know, start from raw again. Did you ever chase being a pro or did it just happen? I didn't. I, I, I surfed, uh, I surfed in a couple because when I grew up, we used to do longboard events where, which we're riding these big boards. And when we were kids, it was fun, right? It was kind of a fun, it was a fun thing because there was no money. And there was, it was just you and your buddies and you go down and get a, win a T-shirt or something.

• 22:51Speaker 03

  I did a couple of those, uh, and then, and then I, I watched. I went and watched competition surfing and I would go, I went to, you know, some contests and the waves were like this big. The waves were that, maybe like that tall, like, like that tall, like, like waist high. And they were going to crown the world champion in waist high surf. And I thought, well, first of all, I'm 200 pounds. That guy's a buck 20. I'm gonna have no chance even getting going and he's going to be doing some kind of acrobatic move and.

• 23:30Speaker 03

  World champion of what? Like, so, I mean, now it's changed a lot and now they look for better venues and better surf. And, I mean, there's no doubt that, that a lot of the greatest surfers in the world, but not all, are in competitive surfing. Because it's the only way, the way the system's been set up, it's really the only way you can actually make a living in it. So they've almost forced everybody into, into that. There's still some rebels that surf outside of it. And big wave riding, because it's kind of filled with rebels. Naturally, I think it's had a, it's actually the most entertaining, but it just hasn't had as much traction in the, in the, you know, competitive aspect.

• 24:12Speaker 03

  Part of it is just because, because you're, you're always at the mercy of the conditions. And that's, I mean, you know, and you'll be able to relate to this, but, you know, I, I describe kind of big wave riding especially like you're in the fire department. You don't know when the fire's coming, but you know there's gonna be a big one. And so, but you gotta be ready. And you gotta be ready all the time. And sometimes that process is pretty, that's, that's, that's, that's an arduous process. Like when you've been, when you've spent 30 years being ready to go out and die. Die. Because that's part of what, that's, there's a reality there that, so you have that in your mind

• 24:57Speaker 03

  when you, when it's giant that you could die. And it's real clear. You spend 30 years doing that, 30, 40 years doing that? Tiring.

• 25:08Speaker 00

  College football is back. So Hilton called to me, the superstition concierge, to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Wanna make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching band wake up call at 5:55 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay.

• 25:38Speaker 06

  Energía baja, falta de concentración, nebla mental. You might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero Powders han sido diseñados científicamente para ayudarte a mejorar el balance de hidratación en el cuerpo. Hechos con la mezcla número uno de electrolitos, sin colores ni sabores artificiales. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Signos de dehidratación leve y moderada. Consulta a tu médico si los síntomas persisten.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Born in Roma Fragrances by Valentino Beauty, the iconic fragrance duo. Donna Born in Roma Eau de Parfum is a feminine fragrance featuring juicy black currant, central jasmine, woody cashmerin, and warm vanilla. Its masculine counterpart, WomO Born in Roma Eau de Drolette, has notes of fresh violet leaf, aromatic sage, green vetiver, spicy ginger, and mineral salt. Shop at mazies.com.

• 26:37Speaker 03

  Being ready all the time, like, what are you gonna do? I don't know, maybe tomorrow? Tomorrow? Next day? Next day? Like, I mean, we have windows of time. You still have the southern hemisphere, so you can still go to the southern hemisphere in the summer. So that's when their winter is. So there's, you know, in the world, there's opportunity, probably eight or 10 months a year, to find a giant wave to ride. But then you gotta be in that mental state, the psychological state, to be physically prepared and emotionally prepared to go subject yourself to this thing, which is why it wears a lot of people out, finally. Finally, they just go, they go tap out. I'm just not ready to, you know, put myself in that mental, that state of mind to be in that position.

• 27:17Speaker 03

  It's just, you know, and I can, I know that you can relate even more so because of the alert that you're on when you're under fire and when you're in a position when you know that you can be shot at at any minute and you're, but you're living in that kind of thing in your mindset during that. That thing is, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's, that's real. That's a real thing. That's like, that's, that's a, the mental kind of, I don't wanna say fortitude, but the mental thing of being in that, kind of living in that state is not, that's, that's, that's taxing. So you gotta figure out some way within that to kind of... You know, maybe reduce the taxing or make it tolerable like how, what things can I do to the,

• 28:02Speaker 03

  and I know being sober.

• 28:04Shawn Ryan?

  It's all preparation.

• 28:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:06Shawn Ryan?

  It's all preparation for what you want to do. And so for, for, for, for, from my background, I mean, that's, that's what we do. We prepare for, for that. And, and that's, that's what we want to do. I mean, it's, it sounds weird saying it like, why would you want to go into a gunfight? Well, I'm also an adrenaline junkie.

• 28:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:25Shawn Ryan?

  You know, and that's the kind of adrenaline that I liked being a part of. And, and, and so everything that you do in life is in, when you're in that is preparation so that you can perform at the highest level when, when the time comes. And you do, you never know when the time is coming.

• 28:47Speaker 03

  But it's going to happen. And the preparation gives you, I think, well, first of all, I think it's a distraction. One thing, it's because you have to busy yourself doing something and sitting around is never good because you're in your head. So preparation also, I think, the preparation also gives you the confidence when you do arrive in the situation, whatever the situation is, to be able to know that you've done everything you can that's under your power to be, to have the best chance you can. Right? So if you didn't do anything, you'd be like, oh, I should have done, maybe I should have done a few more pushups or maybe I should have shut the target a little bit more. Maybe I should have hold my breath a little longer. Maybe I should have, like, so you don't want to have any of that, that stuff creeping in because that's never good, like especially during things.

• 29:29Speaker 03

  So I think, so I feel like that's a, you know, that's the thing that in a way, that's what, what's evolved for me to be into like, at this point, still thinking the way I'm thinking, that's the only way I've been able to do it. I mean, I don't, it's not so severe contrast as your thing, but I, but again, I, I think a lot of it has to do with, with the mental, the perceived danger because you can be in a. You can be in your couch and if the perceived danger is in your couch,

• 30:10Speaker 03

  that can be as bad as being in front of a hundred foot wave. Absolutely, because at the end, we have that power, right of like the perceived danger is present. So, so for me, I think my lifestyle, like all this heat and ice and the pool and the thing and all that stuff, this is all things towards the preparation of being ready, right? But living, but being in a ready state of lifestyle, like the lifestyle is a ready state. Like so they, so you're trying to live a lifestyle and a piece of it is having a good relationship with Gabby. Like if Gabby and I are having a fight and there's a giant swell, I'm gonna go surf, I'm not gonna be a good headspace, being in the present, you know, having my daughters

• 30:54Speaker 03

  and everybody be healthy and everything at the thing be good. Okay, then it's gonna allow me to be a little more stable when I'm in this other situation. Like it's all feeding in the like back to the spokes, all being nice and tight for their thing just makes you, at least for me, I feel like I'm, I operate better when I'm, when I do get pressed. Like if I'm in a pressing situation, if, if I'm taking care of all my business, if all my business is taken care of and there's no, nothing unsettled, nothing undone, I feel like I really am better, I'm, I'm just, I do better. I just, I, I just, at least it doesn't allow distraction. There's no outside little, hey, I should have gone over and told that guy blah blah,

• 31:38Speaker 03

  or I shouldn't thing, or why didn't I, you know, whatever it is on the, you know, on the thousand to one list that you have, you know?

• 31:46Shawn Ryan?

  It sounds to me like you were accepted into the professional community just by having the courage to be you. And, and, and, and in turn, you're a trendsetter just by having the courage to be you. You've set, you've set the trend with the, with the, with the, with the big waves. You set the trend with the paddle boarding. You've, you've set a lot of trends and nobody can take that from me because they didn't have the courage to be them. They've all conformed into.

• 32:21Speaker 03

  Well, we said by default, like we said, I said by is by default, like it's like they it wasn't they didn't even have they didn't have a choice.

• 32:28Shawn Ryan?

  They can't ignore it.

• 32:29Speaker 03

  They had to go, okay, sure, bring them in. Yeah, okay, you're, you know, you get to have your little thing and the whatever like, I mean, they it's by default like they didn't. It was not even, I mean, that would seem like that was the only way it was gonna happen. I'm I'm I'm fine with it was just, but that's the irony like at the end, it was just like, okay, yeah, we can't ignore it anymore. It's like, I'm on the cover of National Geographic and I'm on the thing over here and then I'm sponsored by American Express and all the thing that finally, okay.

• 32:55Shawn Ryan?

  Everything but the surfing community.

• 32:57Speaker 03

  Exactly. Seriously.

• 32:58Shawn Ryan?

  Would you have it any other way though? Is it awesome?

• 33:01Speaker 03

  Perfect. It's awesome. I'm just like, sure, knock yourself out. Yeah, because because it's it's like, you're getting blessed from non-conformancy. Right? You you end up getting which is, but it's just the harder. Initially, it's the harder, but it goes, it's it goes back to everything, right? It's like, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right? At the at the end of the day, it's like initially, it's not the the it's not an easy route. It's not, there's nothing fun about it. There's a bunch of things that uncertainties and different ways you win and everything, but but you just you were you didn't have to participate in the conformity. You didn't have to get in there and dislike, you know, go out when they blow the whistle and come in when they blow the whistle and then they tell you how you did. I just was like, cool.

• 33:46Speaker 03

  Like, because I was never get, that was never gonna work out good. So not only if I participate in that, not only would that stop me from actually doing what I want to do, but I also wouldn't have even got me what I what I didn't want to do.

• 34:00Speaker 03

  I would have been, I would have been hammered on both sides. So.

• 34:04Shawn Ryan?

  What was it? So it's, I mean, you still hit.

• 34:08Shawn Ryan?

  You were still considered a pro at seventeen years old.

• 34:11Speaker 03

  Sponsorship. Yeah, because because would to be a pro professional is you're getting paid. So you're getting I'm get I had a sponsor. I was getting paid to to to surf and then I'm doing I'm in surf movies. I'm in the surf magazines. The sponsors pay you because you're getting in magazine. You're getting exposure. Right? Sponsors pay athletes because they get exposure. It's just most athletes have to play in their.

• 34:35Speaker 03

  profession like in tournaments and in games to get their to get their exposure. But I was just bypassing having to participate in the structure going right to exposure. But at the end, it's like sponsors like sponsors are sponsoring you your show.

• 34:53Speaker 03

  Because you get exposure. Right? So sponsors are sponsoring athletes because they get exposure. But if you know an athlete's getting exposure because they're playing on TV. Or they're in the magazines, they're in Sports Illustrated. Or they're because they're playing in the game. I just bypassed the game and went right to the exposure, which which is what I was. My exposure was my performance. So my surfing was was getting the exposure. And then that and then that was that was allowing them to to to pay me.

• 35:23Shawn Ryan?

  What was the where do you think the exposure stemmed from? It had to be something specific. Because you were doing so many different things.

• 35:32Speaker 03

  You know, I mean, like initially, it was from my surfing. Like like right away from the beginning, the exposure was happening from my surfing. My sur I was surfing. I mean, I can I am trying to understand it. But part of it was I was surfing at a level where they they were putting me in movies. They were putting me in magazines and they were they were so my surfing was. I was surfing at a level and doing things at a level. It'd be like if you were a basketball player and you could go shoot from half court. And you just drilled them from half court all day long. People would come to watch you shoot. They would make a movie from you shooting at half court. They would write articles about you and because you could just bury it from half court all day long. You didn't even need anybody to play. You're like, is anybody playing? No, nobody's playing. But he can just bury it from it's a little bit like that, like in the sense of except.

• 36:18Speaker 03

  That, you know, the kinds of waves I was riding, the way I was riding the waves was brought me. A certain level of notoriety. And then. And then when I went to Europe, I built, I built the whole other thing because of windsurfing. So I went to Europe, I was in the first European, my first speed event for windsurfing, I broke the European speed record. Which, as, and I came through the trials, I had to race against the world, the champion, the French champion, I beat him. Like in his home court, and then that propelled me into getting a sponsor, and then they, and then, and then anything I did, they would promote it, right? So then, then Le Keep magazine would write articles about, you know, this athlete and all the stuff I was doing. And so then I just kind of built, built from that, right?

• 37:03Speaker 03

  So that, and then I would, and then I was in films, I was in, you know, I was either doing a, you know, doing a cameo in some film or doing another. You know, I played, I was a villain in a, in a movie called North Shore, and then I was in a, you know, then I'm in, and then I'm all of a sudden you're in another ad for some other company. And, you know, so there, I'm getting exposure through all these different, these different plat, the platforms. And, you know, surfing is so small, it's like, like, and volleyball is the same way. You know, we had to be creative, we've, that's what's brought us into being entrepreneurs. Because we've had to be creative, because I didn't sit back and play baseball and get my $300 million contract.

• 37:44Speaker 03

  And then just be like, it's all cool, I don't need to do anything, I've always had to be a little creative in my. And part of my creative innovation stuff within the sport had to do, do more out of my interest and my boredom. I just wanted, I just needed to keep, I've been surfing so long already, by the time I was, you know, 25, 30, that I was like, I needed new things to be stimulated. So I was always, you know, looking at, looking at it that way, right? Yeah. And the whole thing about riding, being the, riding the biggest waves in the world, that was, I mean, that was always the, I had these other pieces. But my, you know, my.

• 38:26Speaker 03

  That the tip of the spear is is riding the biggest waves in the world the best. Like that was the whole thing. Like I'm gonna be, I'm gonna ride the biggest waves in the world the best. Which, you know, again, that it becomes an opinion, but but yes and no. Like you see, you you see the footage, you see the guy do it, you go see it, you see it. And you see have the experts come and they're all the experts at surfing and they see it and they go, "Okay, well, that looks like no one's else done it quite like that. No one's doing it like that. No one's ever done it like that." Probably so, maybe haven't done it yet like that. They may not know if everybody's gonna ever do it like that. Then then that just puts you in your own, your own.

• 39:03Shawn Ryan?

  Your own genre.

• 39:06Shawn Ryan?

  That's awesome. What, when did you start the, when did you start the big waves?

• 39:12Speaker 03

  Well, I started surfing big waves when I was young. I started when I was 13, probably right when you get puberty. Soon as you're like a young, like, when would you, when would you do a, you know, tribal initiation?

• 39:26Speaker 03

  You know, when would you do a tribal initiation would be like, I mean, when you, you know, when you, because of what you've been through. When do, when do young guys get guns that, you know, start to become a man? Like as soon as you become a man, it's like soon as you have puberty, right around then you start to go, okay, I've, you know, and then you're like, and then you start there. That was the beginning, because I was always attracted to big surf, just because I liked being scared. Like I like that. I like that feeling that I got, like you said, when everything's on and you're, and just the whole, you know, the whole, and I also liked the way it made everybody else act.

• 40:00Shawn Ryan?

  How was that?

• 40:02Speaker 03

  Um, nice.

• 40:07Speaker 03

  Nice. It makes everybody act nice. It's really, it's really, it's good. It's, I think, I mean, you know how that is. Danger and threat just keeps everybody. Well, I mean, and and sometimes it brings out certain things in certain guys, but it, but it creates a real, uh, and again, coming off of the land that I was on, it was a real place of of equality, right? There was like, we're all kind of equal. I always, I have a saying, I have a shirt that says, "We're all equal before a wave." Like, so there's.

• 40:40Shawn Ryan?

  The respect for the, it's, it's the, it's a respect for everybody that's out there who has the courage to be there. And, and there, it's, it's.

• 40:52Speaker 03

  People are nice. I always say people will fight you for a two foot wave, but they'll give you a 20 foot wave.

• 40:59Speaker 03

  For sure. It's little people are, and then you get in giant surf and they're like, oh, now you go. No, I'm good. Yeah, you're you're up, you know, like, and so I always, I think I really like that. I think I like the way people. I like the way people behaved better when it was big and on top of the fact that I love the love the and it was and I always thought it was a real. A real clean defining separation like I always liked like. You know, like a sign of courage would be we go to a cliff, right? And we just start hiking up a cliff and then. We get to a certain height and then we, okay, we both jump off and then we climb back up. We go a little higher and eventually we get to a place where.

• 41:44Speaker 03

  Just maybe only no one else wants to jump off and you're the only one that wants to jump off and I I just like that kind of. That defining thing that that that's a real defining. There's no. It's all clear like it's good. You're making the choice. I'm making the choice. Everybody making the choice. Here we go. We just go. It's like a real clean. I like I like that. That that clarity of like, you know, and nothing is no weird thing. It's not like, oh, I'm, you know, it's just more like, okay, hey, you're tough. And I think I think I can go too. So we'll just keep going and we'll see who how far you'll go.

• 42:17Shawn Ryan?

  It's a healthy, a healthy respect.

• 42:20Speaker 03

  It is.

• 42:20Shawn Ryan?

  Knowing that.

• 42:21Speaker 03

  Beautiful.

• 42:21Shawn Ryan?

  That that.

• 42:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:23Shawn Ryan?

  There's only a, there's a very limited amount of people that have the courage to put themselves in that type of a situation.

• 42:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:29Shawn Ryan?

  And and be able to perform under that amount of fear.

• 42:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:32Shawn Ryan?

  Stress.

• 42:33Speaker 03

  Yeah. And then and then that may and so I mean, listen, there's ways that people go about it, right? Some is ignorance. Some is denial and then some is experience and there's a combination. I always say those are the three things that we approach these situations with, right? Is experience, denial, and then experience it. I mean, experience, denial and ignorance. And so we and then, you know, some guys just come in. They don't even know. Right there and you're like, like, and you understand and you're like. Wow. And then the guy pulls it off and you're like, oh, that's not gonna be good because he gained false sense of confidence, right? But. There but I but somewhere in there, it's a mixture of all those things, right? That most of the time people are doing dangerous things. There's something like that, like little bit of denial, little bit of ignorance. Fair amount of, you know, experience or.

• 43:17Shawn Ryan?

  Ignorance will get you in the door. Experience will keep you there.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

• 43:23Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I'm familiar. But let's talk about the Jaws Surf.

• 43:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:30Shawn Ryan?

  You were the first one to

• 43:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:32Shawn Ryan?

  to ride that, correct?

• 43:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, we, the thing is, is that that's, that place was an unsurfed place. I mean, I think a couple, because people will go, oh, well, we paddled out there and the thing. And no one was surfing this, that spot. Whether they had been out there before, like on the side, looking at it, or they went out on a small day and rode it. But what allowed us to, to pioneer that break was the technique of being pulled. So that technique that, that we developed of being pulled in allowed us to go to this wave that was virtually unrideable. I mean, guys go there now and paddle into it, but only when it's forgiving enough to let you do that. But when you get into this other level of wave riding,

• 44:19Speaker 03

  it's, you mean, maybe on, you know, one day every hundred years, you might be able to get, you know, oh, close to, but the, the fact is, is we can go out there and get towed on. And, and that wave was just designed for getting, for towing. That, that Jaws is a, I mean, it's one, it's probably the premier performance, uh, big wave in the world as far as just a, a, a wave that, and again, you know, you said thirty, forty, fifty, sixty. I mean, it's, you know, eighty foot faces. I mean, that, that place is, that place is, I mean, there's a wave now in Europe called Nazaré that is in Portugal, that's also only hap, even being ridden because of the tow-in technique.

• 45:04Speaker 03

  Again, that allowed that, that place to be ridden. Uh, and it does an unusual thing that from, like, it steps up and becomes, the two waves join for a second. So it gets really tall and then kind of dissipates. And it's not a, it's not a great performance wave. It's more like get your picture on a giant. Face and then, you know, say you rode the, say you rode the biggest wave in the world. I, I mean, the fact that, that they get into, I'm so, we've always been resistant against the whole measurement, like measuring, trying to define a wave by, by the, the face height is like trying to measure a cube by one side of it. Like you just, you're talking about something,

• 45:46Speaker 03

  you know, I, I always describe, I, I describe big waves like dogs. You got pit bulls, you got rottweilers, you got Great Danes, you got Dobermans, you got all these different dogs. They're all different, right? Different breeds. Some are little with big old heads and big teeth and they vicious. Some are bigger and they're a little nicer. And that's how the, that's how cert waves are. Waves are exactly like dog. There's little, there's little ones that have teeth with big heads that wanna chomp your throat. And then there's other bigger, taller ones that are a little, you know, and then there's big ones that are big biters too. And so that's, that's a better description of a wave than like, it's a 50 foot, it's 60 foot. I mean, there, cause there's so many variables that go into what a wave is, the energy of a wave.

• 46:31Speaker 03

  A dog is a better description of a wave than a measurement.

• 46:34Shawn Ryan?

  Like a personality.

• 46:35Speaker 03

  Personality and they have them. And some of them are vicious and some of them are a Labrador. Some of them are all sweet and some of them are, and they, some change on different days. Certain days they're, they're real nice and friendly and you can pet them and some days they just wanna bite you. They just, they wanna, they're gonna bite you.

• 46:52Shawn Ryan?

  You talk about some near death experiences that you've had surfing. Can we go into some of those?

• 46:58Speaker 03

  Yes, sir. Uh, I mean, I've been lost at sea. So I, I, I spent the, like a day and a half out in the ocean, way like in Hawaii, about 60 miles offshore, which was a different kind of being near death. I would think that's a, that was a.

• 47:16Speaker 03

  Just a longer time to think about it, but without really any imminent threat right away. Right? So no, not no imminent threat. Um, right away, but, but the, the whole possibility of like, hey, I'm sixty miles from shore. I, I, I won't be able to get back. I hope my E per works and I don't know if it does. And I hope something shows up to pick me up, but if it doesn't, so you just, and I only had a, you know, like a, a good. You know, a good half a day to think about it, but it was good enough. Yeah. Like, is it good enough to, I mean, half a day, a half an hour, if you really think it's the end. You know, like, oh, I'm gonna be eaten by a shark. Am I gonna thing? What am I gonna do? I'm gonna drown. I'm gonna thing like, what am I gonna, you know, all that stuff that runs.

• 48:02Speaker 03

  And then I've been held, uh, I've been held under, you know? I've been held under multiple times. I, I, you know, the truth is, is that, cause I tried to think about it. I watched, uh, Allah, Alex, uh, uh, climb, you know, the climbing free solo. Where he free climbs the, the Yosemite. And then so they, he does the free climbing with no ropes. And, and then they did a study on his brain and they said his brain just does something different when he's scared. And I was trying to understand what, what that meant. You know, like what that, what that, why? Why was his, and what I, what I, my, what my, cause I was trying to relate to my own perspective.

• 48:42Speaker 03

  And what I thought was is because he was exposed to dying and falling so often, growing up. Like imagine every time he went climbing, as soon as you were a hundred feet in the air and there was rocks below you. If you fell, you die. Pretty much, that's what's gonna happen. So he was in, so he would go into that fear of dying, like I am gonna die. And, and when you put your body under, under, and you can, you, maybe you can, I'd be interested to hear what you think about this. But because he was in that situation so often, so many times and didn't die. That the, and the taxation on the system is so severe, right? You're so taxed from that.

• 49:24Speaker 03

  The body has to recalibrate because the body like, well, you didn't die the last thousand times you were in that situation. You do, which you thought you were gonna, and we had to be in fight or flight with all the sensors on it, full blast, like, and we're gonna have to re, we're gonna have to turn that down. Right? I think the body would adapt, like, of course it would adapt. Why, why wouldn't? It wouldn't just continue to allow every time you were in that position to be in that same state and that have that taxation, because it's hard on the system to do that. Like, when you're up like that, it's like, you know how that is. You come, you come up, you come down. And so I think it started, and because I was saying for me, I got, I got close to drowning so often as a child, like, so often, like, getting sucked out the pipeline in the shore

• 50:08Speaker 03

  break, being in a rip current and swimming against a rip current with no one around, no lifeguards, no people, and just, you know, being underwater and coming up and thinking you're gonna, this is it, you're gonna die, and you've done that, how many times you did? Pretty soon, your brain just goes, okay, well, you didn't die the last 500 times that you, you were in a rip current and you're gonna die. So we're gonna just, we're gonna, we're gonna adjust that, especially when you're in your development stage of your life, right? Especially when you're growing, it's like, if you're an athlete and you grow up doing the sport that you, that you're doing, your body will actually kind of grow to it, right? It's different than, I grew up full age and then I start doing something. So I think that there's an adaptation.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  I know as a young kid, that I was close to drowning once a week. Like, it was like, once a week, I was, I thought I was gonna drown. Like, you're gonna, you're being held under the water, you're, you can't get to the top. And I think fear of drowning is such a, you know, such a primal one, it's like, eaten by giant animals, burned, falling, drowning. Like, I think there's like, I call them the primal fears, right? There's like, probably five or 10 primal fears, but I know drowning's up there. That's why people, that's why they do all that traumatic stuff with, with the, with the SEAL guys for like, to break you. Like, they go, they throw you in the deep end with a bunch of weights on you and tell you drown, because it's part of their, so it's part of that process of that, because

• 51:32Speaker 03

  that fear is so, and there's no air, uh, which probably induces the fear even more. So, so, but I think that that's part of it. I think that, so I think I went through that.

• 51:43Speaker 03

  Through that so, uh, so much, you know, so many, so many times growing up as I went that I'd started to make my, my, uh, but you know, I've been, I've been, I've been blown, I've been blown like, like in a way I've been blown like, like a landmine, like not a landmine, but like blown like I got hit by a, like, uh, I was surfing Jaws and they were filming the new point break and I had a wave break behind me and blow me like into the sky, like, and then run me over after and fold me in half and then just hold me, hold me down underwater. Uh, with power that, I mean, I think that would, if it was any other

• 52:28Speaker 03

  energy with that kind of power, other than water, probably would have just ripped me in half. It just, it was just water. There was a forgiveness to it. But I think that the, you know, those, those, uh,

• 52:41Speaker 03

  just those hold downs, those, the consistent hold downs. I mean, okay, injury hitting the head with this and hitting that thing and all this, all the wounds, but, but that, but the, you know, the, I mean, I fell, I've been in an avalanche. I fell through a, I got pinned at the bottom of a waterfall. So I was in, uh, I was in Oregon in this white salmon river and we were doing, there was a river rafting trip and we were, uh, we were on this big raft and they stopped before this giant waterfall. There was a big waterfall that probably had like eight foot of volume. So like eight foot thick of volume going off this waterfall. And, and so I was like, they pulled the raft in, they made us walk around and I said to the guy, well, can't we go off that thing? He goes, well, we don't go off that thing.

• 53:26Speaker 03

  And I go, well, what if I want to go off that? He goes, well, I can't stop you. And so I go, okay. So, so I swam out into, into the river and I swam right into the, into the heart of it. And as I was going off, I was going off head first, cause I was, I thought I was going to go like that, right? And I heard the guy yell feet first from the shore. So I kind of rolled over and turned around and went, went feet first and I went over the waterfall and I landed underwater on a big stone with the waterfall holding me down. So the waterfall, so I was on a stone with the waterfall just.

• 54:08Speaker 03

  Just holding me like that. And I was just, and I was sitting there and I'm like, and I, and I was like, can't move. And I tried to, I couldn't press. And I was just, and I'm sitting there and I just got a vision of a skeleton with a life preserver on it. That's what I saw in my head. I saw a skeleton. And then it had a life preserver, kind of raggedy life preserver, like, like I was just gonna be there, like I was, I was stuck there. And, uh, and I ended up, after not being able to, to move at all, I end up moving my leg. And when I moved my leg, it spun me out from the stone, spit me out of the back of the thing. And my friend was already swimming from the side below in the pool to come out to the, cause I hadn't come up.

• 54:49Speaker 03

  And, uh, and my, I think for like, I don't know, a week or something on my shoulder blades and my whole back from where the water had just been, you know, holding me down like that, just on my back, just like had me pinned. I was like, so I had, I mean, I was just saying, I, you know, when I, I had a, uh, I was in Russia one time helicopter snowboarding. And I was following some crazy French guys. And the French guys are like, we had a big meeting and they said, you know, when you're walking, we're on these big cornices and there's these big giant things hanging off the cliff. And they're hanging way out. It's probably like, whatever, a couple hundred feet or more off the edge. And, and the guy's like, okay, when we're walking on these things, if you see stones, you know, and you're walking on a cornice,

• 55:30Speaker 03

  if the stones are on your right, make sure you're on, on the left side. If we're on that, you know, if the thing's hanging out. And I remember walking along and I'm following this French guy. And I, and I looked over and I saw a stone. And I went, hey, and I just fell through the thing. I didn't fall off the thing, but I fell into the cornice. So I fell down in this hole, like on a rock ledge, inside the, inside the thing. And I'm sitting there and the guys come running back and they put, put a rope, they pulled me out and everything. And then I just wanted to kill that guy after. And I'm like, I'm never listening to you again, if you ever. So after that, from then on, I was like, yeah, I don't care what he says. I'm looking like, you know, and I didn't know anything about the mountains, but I wasn't gonna rely on the, but I think, I, I mean, I've had so, I think I've just had a, a bunch of those.

• 56:15Speaker 03

  But the water stuff happened so often, so much, growing up in the, you know, being sucked out and being, um, being pinned on the bottom and. You know, a lot of drowning, a lot of drowning.

• 56:29Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 56:30Speaker 03

  A lot of drowning.

• 56:31Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 56:31Speaker 03

  Mostly drowning.

• 56:32Shawn Ryan?

  You know, to your point about kind of the fear stuff, overcoming fear and we're talking about the guy climbing. I mean, I don't know that, I don't know that man, I've not heard of him. But you know, when it comes to the fear stuff, I mean,

• 56:50Shawn Ryan?

  the second time you do it, your brain's telling you, babe, we've been here before, you know? And then third time, and then again and again. And it creates, and the other thing with fear, I mean, you're doing it every time you get into a situation like that, adrenaline dumps to help you overcome the fear. Well, the adrenaline, you know, you get addicted to that. And so how do you feel adrenaline? You gotta find, put yourself in these situations like you're talking about and it becomes this cycle. And then just like we talked about at the beginning, that becomes home for you, you know? And, and so you'll recreate a situation where you're going to get adrenaline and a dopamine hit.

• 57:35Shawn Ryan?

  And, and it just, it never ends.

• 57:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:38Shawn Ryan?

  It never ends, you know? And, and I think that's a big part of it, you know, it's of overcoming fear. It's that initial.

• 57:47Speaker 03

  Exposure.

• 57:47Shawn Ryan?

  All right, this is gonna suck. Okay, we survived it. And then this, like I said, the second time is like, oh, we've been here before. Third time, oh, this is home.

• 57:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:56Shawn Ryan?

  This is, I like this, I like getting out of this, you know? And, and I think that, that plays a major role in.

• 58:04Speaker 03

  Exposure, well, having experience, having, having that, having been there. I mean, you know how it's like the first time, your point, your vision is like you're looking down the barrel. The second time, the third time, pretty soon you're seeing stuff in the peripheral in the corner over there just because you're, you get, you get more comfortable with that, with that world, right?

• 58:27Shawn Ryan?

  The tunnel vision goes away.

• 58:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, quickly. I mean, but only through exposure. The, yeah, the, I mean.

• 58:38Speaker 03

  I think that transitioning into a constructive way to get those that deal with that same thing, like how do you, because that cycle, like, you know, we used to, and, and it's our ver- I mean, our, like I said, it's not, I'm not, I can't ever compare because we're not, people aren't trying to kill us, but I can tell you that we have post-traumatic, we used to talk about post-traumatic big wave riding, like when you were, you were done, like in the beginning, we weren't, we'd go get, you know, go get drunk and, and then just spiral down into a negative abyss, you know, and might be for two, could be as long as two weeks or more. And so we started becoming aware of it, that there was something that was real. Like I said, no, this is a real thing. And then I'll say, hey, you know, do things to nurture the system, get sleep, eat good,

• 59:24Speaker 03

  you know, like do stuff to, and, and also now all of a sudden, we got control of it and it wouldn't go as, the plane wouldn't dive as deep. We would pull the plane, you know, when the plane started burrowing in, we'd pull the plane up because we would, we would, we were conscious of it because it was a real thing. It's a real, I mean, I think whenever you're in that heightened, it's, there's a taxation on the system, right? That the more aware you have to be, and the longer that period is, the more energy you use. And you just, it's just, it's just, it's just math. And so at the end, you have to figure out, how do I, how do I support that? They want to take my vitamins, eat good food, get good sleep, like do all the things that you do to help you, you know, and that's not, I

• 1:00:09Speaker 03

  mean, that's just only the, and the physical side, right? That's just the physical, I mean, we're not even beginning to deal with what you guys have, what you've seen and what you have to deal with the images and that stuff. But we're just dealing with this, the sheer level of, of what it, the taxation on the system to be, you know, on full alert, right?

• 1:00:27Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Is there a, some things that all experience after, after a, after a big op, you know, or something like that, a big operation is, is there'll also be, there'll also be a certain amount of depression that hits because there was so much preparation for what you're getting ready to do. I mean, that's your entire life goal is to. Surf the jaws, you know, or to, to, to, to go on this raid and

• 1:00:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:56Shawn Ryan?

  wherever, Afghanistan. And it, there's so much preparation and, and, and and then when it's done.

• 1:01:05Speaker 03

  Burrow in.

• 1:01:06Shawn Ryan?

  It's, it's, it's. Well, shit, now what do we do? You know, it's, it's, so there's the trauma, there's the po- the, the post-traumatic stress, there's all these things happening, but it, there's also the depression that kicks in because the preparation is over, it's, it's on to the next thing and you feel like what is the next thing? Is there gonna be another thing? You know, and, and, um,

• 1:01:32Shawn Ryan?

  and maybe you're happy with your performance, maybe you aren't, you know what I mean? All that plays in as well, but that, that was always something for me is, is all the preparation, everything and, and it's emotional and, and you're doing it, you're in the moment, it's happening, and then it's done. And you just don't know what to do with yourself, you know, when it's done.

• 1:01:54Speaker 03

  That's why I'm lucky Gabby's still with me.

• 1:02:00Speaker 03

  I mean, it's, I have it from last week. I mean, yeah, it's, it, I, I, I, again, I think, and you, I know you can, you know this, is, again, the first time, a lot harder. Second time, um, not harder, but not as hard. Third time, I mean, again, I think you get a little better at that too. I think you get a little bit better at, at, that's what I'm talking about, being aware of that you're gonna go into a funk, you're gonna go into depression, you're gonna be down, and that, are you gonna do it again? Did you do it good enough? Like, all that stuff. You know, that's all, that's, that's, I mean, that's part of what you're, you're, uh, you have to be aware of. You have to be honest with yourself that that's really happening, because I think sometimes.

• 1:02:45Speaker 03

  You were supposed to be, I don't know, you're thinking like, you shouldn't have that. Why? I mean, you did what you wanted to do and you got what you think, like, what's the point? I mean, Yabbi will look at me, and this is just from the ocean stuff, that she'll look at me after and be like, well, you just got to go to thing and you've what, like, what? Like, and you know,

• 1:03:07Speaker 03

  she's like, is that for real? Like, or I'm just like, you know, the next day, I'm like, looking out the window like, I wonder what the, what the conditions are doing, you know, like, because you're on to the next, you know, you're on to the next, you're on to the next thing.

• 1:03:19Shawn Ryan?

  That brings, that brings up a question. So, a lot of,

• 1:03:27Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know what to say, maybe overachievers, um, maybe, just, just, just really successful people, what I'm starting to realize is, is,

• 1:03:40Shawn Ryan?

  I don't celebrate successes. Do you? Like, when you got done riding the Jaws Wave, or, or the, the one in Tahiti, you know, what, what was your mindset afterwards? Was it, all right, shit, we did this, let's go celebrate, I've just accomplished, I've, I've accomplished something, something that nobody's accomplished?

• 1:04:04Shawn Ryan?

  Or is it,

• 1:04:07Shawn Ryan?

  cool, uh, what's next? What, what do we got?

• 1:04:10Speaker 03

  Pretty what's next?

• 1:04:11Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:11Speaker 03

  Pretty what's next? I mean, the Jaws, I mean, the, the Topo Wave was an emotional one. I think part of it was the, was because of the intensity of that particular, uh, that particular ride in that location was an emotional, like, like, like, uh, like cry, tears, like, like have a little, but I think that was part of it was a, it was a, not a success, a relief.

• 1:04:39Speaker 03

  It was a relief, like, it was, it was a relief, like, I was relieved that that I had kind of gotten that off my back, like that, because that had been on my back, that had been on my back, and I felt the relief from it, like, I was relieved, but it wasn't like, oh, yeah, okay, I just, not even close, like, I was like, and, and it was automatically on to the next, I mean, that's with, pretty quickly, like, what's the next thing? When's the next day? Where's the next place? Like, the whole, you know, it's, and it's a terrible, I mean, it, it, I think it's natural, it just seems like, pretty.

• 1:05:14Speaker 03

  It's a pretty, which is the turnover is, is, is, you know, you have to, I think you have to learn, like, that's what I'm trying to, I tried to use that as to learn from it, like, to learn how to, how to deal with that, with that, that thing and not have it be, uh, you know, not have it be a negative, a negative thing, like, you have to be, to, to just remember the planes come, when you go to the high, the only thing that can happen is you go to the low, and you just get that, pull that plane out, just pull back on that stick and get that thing up, so it doesn't just go, you know, that, and I think that's, again, where, you know,

• 1:05:57Speaker 03

  taking good care of yourself, being healthy, uh, and being okay with taking care of yourself. That's a big piece too, because I think we have a natural thing to not feel worthy. We don't feel like we deserve to be taking, to take care of ourselves. I think that's our, like, it's built into us, and I think sometimes you have to learn that. You have to learn, like, it's, no, it's okay to, you know, that, yes, that did take that effort. Yes, you are having those feelings. Yes, you, it's okay to take care of yourself. I think that's something that, that, uh, part of being honest, you know, with yourself, being honest with yourself.

• 1:06:32Shawn Ryan?

  When, when you, when you rode the, I'm sorry, how do you pronounce the wave in Tahiti?

• 1:06:38Speaker 03

  Teahupo, Teahupo, Teahupo, yeah.

• 1:06:42Shawn Ryan?

  To my understanding, there's, that's, that's the, that's the apex. There's nothing, there's nothing bigger, is it?

• 1:06:51Speaker 03

  Well, the, that particular wave is,

• 1:06:57Speaker 03

  you know, it's the most defined and ridable, so the line, there's some ambiguity with some of the other waves where, you know, maybe you could catch one of these part, you know, there's a, there's a little bit of gray, that, there was no gray in that wave, especially at that time, that was such a clear cut. Line from writable and unwritable. There was no mistake. It wasn't like, oh yeah, you know, you could have, no, no, no. So that's, so the definition, like the, that wave was so defining at the, especially at that moment, at that time, that there, the clarity was, there was no, there was no,

• 1:07:38Speaker 03

  the opinions were gone. Like, you know what I mean? Like if the, if even within it, if they tried to put some opinions about it, no, there was no, there was no, uh, there was worldwide acceptance. Like, yeah, that was

• 1:07:49Shawn Ryan?

  That was it.

• 1:07:50Speaker 03

  Ridiculous, unbelievable. That's impossible. You couldn't, you can't do that.

• 1:07:54Shawn Ryan?

  So where I'm going with this is we're talking about overcoming fear and you gotta

• 1:07:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:58Shawn Ryan?

  Outdoing yourself and not being satisfied and, and not celebrating your successes and always just moving on to the next thing. When you hit that and rode that wave, I mean, what is it like to know?

• 1:08:15Shawn Ryan?

  There is not another location on earth that you can outdo yourself on that wave. There's nowhere else to go.

• 1:08:27Shawn Ryan?

  What is, when did that hit you?

• 1:08:31Shawn Ryan?

  Like shit, there's like, I just, there's, I have to go to another planet.

• 1:08:36Speaker 03

  You forgot to say the right thing.

• 1:08:39Speaker 03

  That, that, that there's no other place you can do that.

• 1:08:46Speaker 03

  But there's, what haven't you done?

• 1:08:50Speaker 03

  What haven't you done? You did that and you can't outdo that, but what's, what's next? Like what's the next thing you can do?

• 1:09:00Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:09:00Speaker 03

  What's the next thing you can do that maybe hasn't been done?

• 1:09:04Shawn Ryan?

  So I know where you're going. I know where you're going with this. I know. So I'm the best at this. Now this is boring. Now I gotta go find something else to be the best at.

• 1:09:15Speaker 03

  Or just you, that you, that you, you did, you did this thing and I, I, I had it at Jaws. Then we had the way it went. It kinda, it was like a gold rush. Everybody came and it was to change the whole feeling. And then we, and then I, I was able to experience it at Te Opo. And then, so then it was like, okay, well.

• 1:09:38Speaker 03

  And, and, and you know, there's a, it's a tricky game, but it's like, can you, can you walk away?

• 1:09:45Speaker 03

  Can you walk, can you walk away from a thing that you're, that you've done, that maybe you're known for, that you're good at? Or, you know, can you, are you able to, can you box and do you have to get knocked out before you quit? Or you know what I mean? Like in that sense? And for me, it was more like, well, no, I, I want to do something I haven't done yet. And for me to outdo what I have done, may or may not happen. That like, there's a chance that I could spend the rest of my life trying to just outdo that moment. Which definitely I never could, I can never get the first kiss back.

• 1:10:20Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, you'll never, the reliving, the trying to relive the same experience never works.

• 1:10:25Speaker 03

  No, because you can't have it be the same experience because it was initial, initially like that was the first time that that was done, it'd already been done. So now you're just doing it again on top of it being done. So you lose, you lost one of the elements, which is probably could be the primary element. And so I, for me, it's now, it's like, okay, well, what haven't I done? And what, where does that, where does that lead me? And so then that leads me to the next, the next quest, which, which is okay, big, long, fast, like these are other areas of interest. And so that's where the pursuit comes. Now, just on that note, because I think you'll appreciate this. So there's a book called The Wave, right?

• 1:11:08Speaker 03

  And written by Susan Casey, who's an incredible writer. And she writes different books about different subjects. And in the book, The Wave, uh, there's a, there's a chapter or two about a day that we rode on Maui, which was, it's, it's not at Jaws, it's another location right by the airport. But it's a, a special wave, uh, that.

• 1:11:31Speaker 03

  Is the biggest waves that we've ever towed into. Okay, so and there was no, it was a stormy day, there was no cameras, which is the irony because everything we had done, we'd been documenting and we were getting tired of it. I was getting tired of it. It was, it was taking away part of the whole experience and I was would be, I was just like I had said, you know, I just would really like to have a day that, that we don't have a bunch of, you know, a bunch of, of, of footage of, and we're not in the, under the thing of getting footage of, and then it won't be critiqued. You know, like, cause everybody can go, well, look at this and compare this and do this thing. And then it's always, you know, and is the camera angle any good? And does it? First of all, it never, you never have the

• 1:12:16Speaker 03

  footage or the films or the, or the things be like it is. It just never is. You just cannot capture the essence of it. It's just like what you've done and you, there's nothing, there's no way to document what you've done, like doing it. There just isn't. I don't care. VR, we, I don't care what you, how you, how elaborate it was, you couldn't do it. You just couldn't. You couldn't have it really be like what it is. So in my mind, I was like, I really would hope to have this day, this like a day that's just for us, for, just for us. Like we're just, we're, me and my, my, my boys are gonna go out and we're gonna go do this thing. And we ended up having a crazy swell. That was the largest waves that we've ever towed surfboards onto. And so, uh, which was,

• 1:12:59Speaker 03

  it was a weird storm. It was a unique location. Anyway, so in the book, it, it, she tells, she reenacts the story. She writes about it. But I wrote, uh, we rode days that we rode hundred foot waves, right? So, and I don't always make the statement because I'm so, I'm kind of against that number thing, but it's, everybody makes such a big deal about the hundred foot wave, the hundred foot wave. I'm like, we already rode the hundred foot. We already rode that, right? So you can tell about, you can talk all about what you wanted about the 100 foot wave and trying to pursue and then, you know, they got the new 89 foot wave in Guinness Book of World. And that's cool. Great. Okay. We rode 100 foot waves. I know we rode 100 foot waves. I was with the guys. I had my friends watch it. We, we know we rode 100 foot waves.

• 1:13:41Speaker 03

  But what I learned on that day was that you can't descend on a 100 foot wave if it's a real 100 foot wave because the amount of velocity that the water has won't let the board descend. There's so much friction. So at that point. No kidding? Yeah. Yeah. Because the speed of a, of a true 100 foot wave, the speed of the wave and the amount of volume of water that's going up the face won't allow you to, to descend. It just, the, the friction will, this, you'll descend, but you'll fall after, once it takes you up, it'll, you'll, but I, so I crashed on a wave, probably 80 foot wave, maybe, maybe bigger. The guy, my friend tried to rescue me. We got run over by a giant wave.

• 1:14:26Speaker 03

  He, he, we got annihilated. We were trying to run away from a, just a, probably a 80, 100 foot wave, ran us down like a freight train, uh, blew the skis off, blew, blew us in. We, we, we were, we were, I got driven probably, I want to say more than a hundred, more than a football field at least, or more on one wave. One wave drove me, at least a, more than a football field underwater. And then I came up, I got hit by another one. We eventually got pushed in. My friend was almost unconscious. I got to him, he had a blow, his whole back of his leg was blown out. I tourniqueted, I had a wet suit on, I tourniqueted his, his leg with my wet suit. And then I had to swim naked to this jet ski. The jet ski was probably floating about a half mile away from us.

• 1:15:11Speaker 03

  I could see it floating. I went there, um, got it, jury rigged it because it was losing the, lost the lanyard and got it started, got him, got him to the beach, um, and, uh, and put him in an ambulance. And then we went back out again. I got my other friend and we went, and we went back out to, to, because it was an opportunity that we might, and I've still yet to see one, uh, an opportunity that we may never see again because we just, you know, I told somebody, they go, well, why'd you go back out? I'd be, I said, it would be like if I said, Tyrannosaurus Rex is running through this, the, the, running down the road out here. Do you want to go see him? Yeah, you do. Like you would just like you would you wouldn't miss that chance and then like, okay, my friends in the ambulance went to the hospital. Cool. He's good. We're good. We're

• 1:15:56Speaker 03

  going back out. And I was I was hurt too, but not enough to not go out. We went back out.

• 1:16:03Speaker 03

  But I learned on that day that the board, the equipment we were riding was insufficient to really try to truly hundred foot wave. And that's why I went to hydrofoils. And then I did I stopped toe surfing at that moment. That was the end. I was like, I'm good jaws. I'm good. I'm good. Good with all of it. And I went and spent and moved back to my home island from Maui and just started riding hydrofoils. And I've been that's what I've been doing since. And so that was my whole thing, because I know I knew that at that point, that tool was inefficient. And the only way that you could ride really the next level of of of mass was going to be with a hydrofoil, that that was the tool. And we're slowly working our way there. We're we're we're

• 1:16:44Speaker 03

  working our way to being able to do more and more. And our ready hydrofoils are have blown open the whole surfing world as far as waves that you can ride, places in the world that you can ride and things you can do. We I've already done things on the hydrofoil that that maybe aren't as spectacular as chopu, but there are things that are I've never done that before. Like I've ridden I've ridden waves for eight minutes. You know, the a long ride in surfing is a 20 second ride is like a mon you know, a monumental ride. That's like the longest ride at the longest spot. And we rode, you know, we rode eight minutes. We ride. We ride waves for eight minutes. We ride waves that are completely unridable. We ride. We were just doing all this

• 1:17:27Speaker 03

  stuff that we haven't. And the speeds that we're going are far surpass any speeds we ever reached on the conventional board. So that's kind of my evolution. It's a little bit like that's where that's where and that's where I am right now. That's what I that's what I'm doing. That's how I got my cut of my head. I got hit by a blade last week. But but yeah, so that's my so again, I think I'm blessed that I've been blessed to continue to because my desire to continue to look for new ways. It's like God is providing me new ways.

• 1:18:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:00Shawn Ryan?

  You came up with the hydrofoil.

• 1:18:02Speaker 03

  Well, I took that foil that was for a chair behind a boat and mounted it on a board and then figured that we figured out we could ride the waves energy and that's what changed everything. So I didn't make the invent the strut, the thing that flies, but what I did was I figured I made a hybrid that you stood on like surfing and then figured out that we could use it in the surf. And that just what that did was completely revolutionized and it's right now in our genre, it's the fastest growing discipline within surfing because it has so many, it has electric, it has wind power, it has wind waves and then also bigger swell waves. So now what we're doing, we're in the process of looking throughout the world with places

• 1:18:48Speaker 03

  that have potential to ride giant surf, especially in the open ocean. So we want to, you know, we're going to look for some, you know, like when you see these movies of these big freighters in the open ocean where the waves are breaking on the bow, like that's the kind of thing that we would like to do. That's what we're working towards, that we're working towards that, being able to be, but we have to get to those locations, we have to be, but we can do it, we can, we've already began to scratch the surface, we know we can, and again, it's, you know, we might be able to ride a wave for 50 miles or 100 miles or more, we don't know. I mean, so there's all these, these other, you know, what do we say where there's a will, there's a Sally, you know, where there's a will, there's always a, there's always something,

• 1:19:31Speaker 03

  but we're getting another, we're getting another thing to do, like to, and I think that would only happen if you didn't sit on your laurels, if you didn't sit back and be like, if you weren't, because if you're doing that, what are they, what are the, there's a great stuntman quote, never let your memories be bigger than your dreams. Never let your memories be bigger than your dreams.

• 1:19:54Shawn Ryan?

  That's a great saying.

• 1:19:55Speaker 03

  And I think if we're, as long as we're aspiring and we're looking to the future, I think that's our, I think that's our, um, and keeping our interests and our, you know, our enthusiasm. I, for me, I feel like, you know, if somebody said, what's the fountain of youth, youth, I, I think retaining your youthful enthusiasm. Like when you see a kid, they're just interested in every single thing and every bite toy thing. They're just like, what's this? What's that? You know, it's like, and I think we get, I think as we go, we, we lose that, you know, we get kind of callous. I did that, you know, you, you meet guys, they're like, oh, I, I, I did that. I fought there. I did this. I did that. And it's like,

• 1:20:34Speaker 03

  you lose that whole thing. And, and, you know, you can change what it is. You can, that's ever evolving. It doesn't have to be in the, in the, in the genre. It doesn't have to be right in the thing. You can be some other thing, but you have to keep, you, we have to keep being inspired. I mean, and, and, and what you're doing, I think, I think to be of service too. I think to be, it's like, right now I have guys that, younger guys that I work with that are, that are, you know, aspiring and, you know, and you can help them on their, on their God's journey, like help them with their, you know, maybe miss some potholes and try to, you know, straighten it out where you can. I, I mean, for me, I feel like there's this, you know,

• 1:21:19Speaker 03

  and then take them, I'm, I'm able to, I have a young, I have a couple of veteran guys I'm working with, but I have a couple of younger, young, young guys that are, you know, that are, that are, that we're bringing along into this thing. And for them, it's going to be normal. Like we're doing this thing that's for us is, and then we're going to step into it like, oh, I've been doing that since I was in my twenties, you know, kind of thing.

• 1:21:38Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:40Speaker 03

  But.

• 1:21:41Shawn Ryan?

  Reinventing.

• 1:21:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:43Shawn Ryan?

  Reinventing. That's a.

• 1:21:44Speaker 03

  There's no end to it.

• 1:21:46Shawn Ryan?

  I think that, um, really helps with, with, with.

• 1:21:52Shawn Ryan?

  Happiness, you know, it's, it's, it's the constant challenge.

• 1:21:56Speaker 03

  Gotta have it, the elusive goal that always is kinda, so you're, and then, because we need to be in pursuit. I think I just, I know, I mean, I listen, you need to be in pursuit. I need to be in pursuit. It's what we are. Like, we're in pursuit. We need, and whatever we're pursuing, doesn't, it can be the, it can be spiritual, it can be emotional, it can be physical, it can be a combination of all of them, but we need pursuit. We need to be, because if we're not pursuing, it's, what is Byron Katie, she says, I'm never good when I'm in here. We need to be over there, wherever that, wherever that, that is, we need, we need it. We have to, we have to. It's, it's what we, it's what we are. We, we can't, we have to get back to what we are.

• 1:22:41Speaker 03

  I think that's our, that's the thing, is we've gone so far away from what we are. We just have to, you know, we have to get back to that. We have to get back to the, back to the house.

• 1:22:51Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Man, what a great discussion. Um, let's take a break and when we come back, we'll, we'll get into some biohacking.

• 1:23:00Speaker 03

  Perfect.

• 1:23:00Shawn Ryan?

  Sounds good.

• 1:23:01Speaker 03

  Hack you later.

• 1:23:06Shawn Ryan?

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• 1:25:10Shawn Ryan?

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• 1:25:31Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Laird, we're back from the break. We're going to go into some biohacking stuff. So, this stuff, I don't know much about it at all, but I've had little conversations here and there. The most, the most, the most, the biggest conversation, or the lengthiest conversation I've had, is with you at breakfast today, and this stuff is just fascinating to me. So, where do we dive in to biohacking? How did you get into it?

• 1:25:59Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, I guess, you know, I mean, the term is an interesting term.

• 1:26:04Speaker 03

  I mean, the truth, for me, the truth about...

• 1:26:09Speaker 03

  It seems that everything that's going on, we're getting so science driven, right? We're so the data, the data, the data, the da- I'm just like dataed out. Like, like when I, if I hear another data thing, it's like, I want experience. Like, give me experience. Like, I want to know, hey, I've been doing this for this long and it's done this and, but hacking, I mean, the whole concept of hacking.

• 1:26:35Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm, I'm adverse to hacking your way through life.

• 1:26:41Speaker 03

  When it means avoiding the work. When it means avoiding your work. And I think, I think part of what's happening right now, especially in our culture is that we're like, hey, I'm just gonna bypass working out and I'm gonna take a pill and I'm gonna be in shape. It's like, no, you're gonna work out, you're gonna get in shape, maybe you take a pill that helps you work out and get in shape. But you don't, so I, I feel like there's a lot of, you know, and, and we're also having to, you know, we're having to make up for the fact that we're just not getting exposed to, to the environment. Like we, like we have throughout our evolution, right? So we're not, so we don't, we don't have enough physical work in the day, so now we have to go work out.

• 1:27:23Speaker 03

  We don't walk enough, so we have to be on a treadmill. We don't do the thing, so now we, you know, it's like we're, we're everything, everywhere you look, we're trying to do, uh, you know, we're trying to make up for the fact that, that we're not getting what we would be getting if we were more in our biological state, right? We would be getting all the things, but, but there are some cool, um, I'd say there are some interesting, and I don't know, I mean, I know about hacking in the sense of what I do myself and what I implement and what, as I go at what I learn. Now, I mean, you could, you could talk about all different types of hacking. I mean, in a way, good breath work is a, is a form of a hack, right? Like, being able to do the right patterns and,

• 1:28:07Speaker 03

  and, and, you know, and, and ice and heat are hacks. I mean, those are, those are, those are crazy good hacks. Um, I would imagine certain supplementation is a hack, you know, red bed, the red beds are hacks, the, the, the vibrational stuff, the, the, I mean, these are all things that we're having to do, you know, we're not getting as much sun exposure, so now we can do, you can do. You know, infrared and, and other types of red therapy, which have, have some incredible effects on your mitochondria. They can totally like re, you know, I, I, I, the best way to describe the red light therapy stuff is it's really based on uh, recharging your batteries.

• 1:28:52Speaker 03

  So your mitochondria are like your batteries of your body and then you can recharge them through the red light therapy stuff. Really? Yeah. So you can re, so you, cause your, your, your mitochondria are like batteries and they, they hold the electrical charge in your body and they get, they get depleted. So you can reboot, you can reboot your mitochondria through, they have red beds, they have just red, red, uh, you know, I mean infrared sauna will kind of do it as well because again, it's infrared, so infrared light, but sunlight is infrared light. Like I do a thing called uh, solar gazing and I've done that for probably 20, more than 20 years. And you, it's where you go in the morning when the sun first rises and right when it breaks the horizon,

• 1:29:36Speaker 03

  you do it in a place that you have a nice horizon, but when the sun first breaks the horizon, you look directly at it and then you, uh, it, it affects your hormone levels in your body and it, and it, and it, um, it actually, and I don't know all the scientific data, but I know that there's some effect on your melatonin, that melatonin is created in the retinas of the eye that help you sleep. But I always say, yeah, if you wake up in the morning early enough to see the sunrise, you're probably going to sleep well because you've been up all day. Right? So, but there are a bunch of physiological things that, that benefits that you get through looking at the sun in the morning when it first rises, right? And there's a, you know, there's a, uh, there's a reason why, and I, and I, and

• 1:30:19Speaker 03

  I talk about, there's a reason why sunrises and sunsets are beautiful, right? Like why are they beautiful? Well, they're not, they're beautiful because they're good for you.

• 1:30:32Speaker 03

  So we looked at them because they were good for us. And then we translated that into they were good looking. So people, you don't just look at them like people go, well, they're pretty. Well, nothing in nature happens for no reason. You're not looking at something because it's pretty. There's either has some intrinsic value, there's some benefit, right? You're looking at the sun in the sunrise and the sunset. The atmosphere of the planet is thick. It takes out the ultraviolet, which is the harmful rays and lets the infrared come in. And then you absorb that. So you're, you know, if you were, if it was bad for you, you wouldn't be able to look at it. Like you, if you looked at the sun and it was too bright, you go, oh, yeah. But you're not going to look at the sun if it's damaging your eyes.

• 1:31:16Speaker 03

  Like, I'm just saying, we have so many, you know, misnomers and so much stuff that's based around fear-based stuff, but the heat and the ice as far as, you know, two of the most profound hacks that you can do. Think about cold and hot, think about a cold stream, like, I mean, how many, how, how much exposure have we had to fires? Even fire has incredible light for you. Incredible infrared light, like looking, having a candle in your room or even looking at a fireplace. Why are fireplace, fires so mesmerizing? Well, you're actually getting infrared from the fire. No kidding. I did not know that. Yeah, yeah, you after you go, oh yeah, it's mesmerizing.

• 1:31:59Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, but it's beneficial. Then it's mesmerizing. It goes back to, like I said, most things in nature that we have these things like why is looking at the horizon? Like, why are we interested in that? Why are we interested in? There's a great book called The Blue Zone, which talks all about the being near the ocean and what that does to your brain when you're able to see the horizon and how good that is for your, for your mind. I mean, there's, there's, there's so many things. Why is it good? It does something, it settles the brain itself and I don't know if it's because of the line or what that, the whole, the distance does, but the, but the, but there's like a whole,

• 1:32:40Speaker 03

  like a systemic effect on the brain that, that looking at the horizon gives you that, that line and that, you know, that, uh, which is why people desire to live on the, on the ocean. They don't even know why. They think, oh, you want to listen to that water, but meanwhile, the horizon's doing something to your brain. Something about your equilibrium, I can imagine it's probably has something, something to do with the stabilization of your, you know, you're not looking at a shape like that. You're looking, something about this helps the, helps your equilibrium.

• 1:33:07Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 1:33:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:09Shawn Ryan?

  I'm just, how long have you been into this biohacking stuff? I mean, it's important. I mean, the, the, the average life expectancy for an American now is only 76 years old.

• 1:33:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, and going down, huh? Like, I think going, going down. You know, I, I, again, I mean, there's different, there's biohack, there's, there's biohacking which is, deals more on the scientific side, like medic, medication, you know, taking certain supplement. I, I, I always, I'm on the nature side of biohacking, right? So I'm on the, that's my, I look to nature, you know, that's like with superfood, it's the same thing. I'm looking for, nature made everything's in the perfect ratios. We don't need to create extractions and, I mean, a lot of the stuff that we do is based around trying to patent it or trying to control the ingredients so you can charge more. And I'm like, well, everything in, in

• 1:34:02Speaker 03

  nature is made at the perfect ratios. You don't need to, you don't need to, to, to, in fact, when we do mess with it, it actually is confusing for the, for the system. So, uh, I mean, you could, you could say certain forms of supplementation are biohacking, obviously.

• 1:34:20Speaker 03

  Again, the, you know, I mean, you have, I mean, you have, you, I mean, there's, there's a lot of stuff with stem cell and there's a lot of these other things. I, I'm less interested in that. I'm less interested in, in, in those things as much as I'm interested in, you know, in, in herbs that can, you know, you have herbs that can help produce testosterone. Even just getting your body in cold water boosts testosterone and produces, you know, you can do DMT through breath work. You know, you have to supplement, you have to, you have to supplement minerals because our food doesn't have it.

• 1:34:59Speaker 03

  You know, we have to, we don't get enough sun. So most of us need, you know, the three best, I'd say the three best vitamins that you can take. And of course the quality does matter, but C, Z, D and zinc. So those, it's corsetin. So corsetin is C, D, Z and, and, and zinc are the, are the, and then magnesium is another one. Like there's a few things that are really, that we need to supplement, which you could call a hack or not, but it's, it's, it's, it's making up. I mean, really, I think a hack, I would describe a hack as making up for something that you're not getting normally.

• 1:35:42Speaker 03

  Because you're not in your nature. You're not in nature and you're not in your nature.

• 1:35:48Shawn Ryan?

  Having a, you have a supplement, something for you, something you should be getting naturally.

• 1:35:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. You're, you should be getting it in your food or, or in your environment and you're, and you're not. And this, and the sun is a big, is a big piece of that, even in your, even the lighting in your house. I mean, there's a bunch of stuff around the lighting. I mean, I, I would describe like I have a. Cold rooms, I have chilly pads or there's a thing called eight cloud that affects the temperature of your bed. So make the bed really cold. That that's a huge, really huge beneficial one for sleeping, like has a profound effect in your sleep. I've been doing that for a long time. So I have a pad that's on my bed that makes cold water go through it that makes the bed really cold. And especially if you're a high metabolism guy, you just you sleep like

• 1:36:36Speaker 03

  a stone when you do that. Um, you know, that's another, another, another cold room, cold, dark, you know, there's this.

• 1:36:46Shawn Ryan?

  Let me focus in a little bit on the biology of breathing.

• 1:36:49Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:36:50Shawn Ryan?

  Cause you had a, you really had some good stuff you were talking about with breath work.

• 1:36:55Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 1:36:57Shawn Ryan?

  How do you get into breath work?

• 1:37:00Speaker 03

  Well, first of all, the, the most important thing you can do is focus on breathing through your nose. Like that's your, and, and learn how to breathe through your nose in your sleep. That, that would probably have more of a profound effect on your health than almost anything you could do.

• 1:37:12Shawn Ryan?

  Why is that?

• 1:37:13Speaker 03

  Well, one thing is, is a reduction of volume. So when you read through your nose, you reduce the volume of air that you breathe, which increases your CO2 levels, which means that you absorb more oxygen because the CO2 is the marker to absorb oxygen. So when the body is CO2 saturated, that's when the cells absorb the oxygen. And so when you're constantly scrubbing your CO2, the body doesn't, the cells don't absorb the oxygen as well. Like you can have blood oxygen, like you can be, you know, I mean, this is how I understand it. And I'm not a scientist. I always, I always, you know, preface it with that. I just understand it through what I've learned and what I do, you know, and, and somebody

• 1:37:58Speaker 03

  go, oh, the data this and that. I go, well, listen, you have oxygen and you have CO2, right? And the CO2 is the exhale, right? That's your, that's your exhale. And when you breathe through your mouth, you're constantly exhaling volume, which keeps the CO2 level really low, which doesn't allow the body to absorb, the cells to absorb the oxygen. You might have, you know, 98% blood oxygen level in the blood, but the, the cells aren't getting it. And so the cells don't absorb it unless the CO2 rises. Some, somewhere in the last 150 to 200 years, we stopped breathing through our noses and we started breathing through our mouths. It made our jaw get smaller.

• 1:38:39Speaker 03

  It affects our dental dental hygiene as well because we have oxidation in our mouth through the oxygen. And so there, I mean, we have a XPT, I have a fitness thing called XPT. We have a breathing app on XPT that gives you a bunch of modalities. There's, there are a bunch of breath work, like modalities, which you have apnea, you have pranayama, you have holotropic, you know, you, you, you, Wim Hof is, is a, does a bunch of breath work that's based from Tumo, which is a Himalayan breathing technique. So you have, you know, you got pranayama, I mean, you just have

• 1:39:22Speaker 03

  a ton of, you just have tons of techniques, different ones do different things, but nose breathing in general, because first of all, your sinus is emitting gas called nitric oxide, which is a, is a, is a vasodilator. So it helps your body absorb oxygen. So when you breathe through your nose, your sinus actually, first of all, it filters the air. If the air is hot, it cools it. If it's cool, it heats it. So it's like the air conditioner for your air for your lungs. So that's, first of all, that's the first thing. Second thing is, is that it produces this, this gas that goes into your lung that helps you absorb the oxygen. So it actually is helping

• 1:40:00Speaker 03

  your body absorb oxygen, the, the nose breathing does. And then you can control all of your, you can control a bunch of different, you can, you know, you ever heard of the Hakka? No, I haven't. So the Hakka is a breathing pattern that the, that the, that the New Zealand all black rugby team does. It's this, like a breathing chant. I mean, I, I tell somebody, I go, you know, when you hear a lion roar, like you hear a lion roar, rahhh. Yeah. Well, the, the, the lion is, first of all, he's giving everybody a warning, right? But he's also giving, exhaling, which is, which is preparing him for battle, right? So it's preparing him to

• 1:40:40Speaker 03

  be, to aggress by scrubbing his, getting his CO2 out, right? And getting him ready to, to, to battle. Now, if you go, if you think about an athletic event, you're, you're running full speed as fast as you can, right? And the body's producing CO2. And you're, that's why your breathing increases because you're trying to get that. You're trying to get that air out, right? That's like your exhaust. So CO2 is the exhaust.

• 1:41:06Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:41:07Speaker 03

  And so the more you can adapt to high CO2 levels, the better off your health is gonna be. Like, it's what happens at altitude. Like, if you go to altitude, you get CO2 saturation. And if you're not CO2 tolerant, that's when you get all you get all loopy. And all somebody that is altitude acclimated is actually CO2 tolerant. Now, when you breathe through your nose, you reduce the volume of exhale, which increases your CO2, which makes you more CO2 tolerant. So our whole thing is to become more CO2 tolerant. The result of that is that you become athletic. It helps your athletic. It helps your overall health. There's a bunch of health benefits.

• 1:41:52Speaker 03

  There's some beautiful books called Breathe, The Oxygen Advantage. I mean, there's some really good podcasts and good books around breathing itself. But it's also a way, I call it manual meditation. There's some ways to manually meditate that you can do through these certain patterns, where you load up the oxygen, you lower the CO2, you breath hold, the breath holds build the CO2 up, then you, which makes you absorb oxygen. And so you play with the two, right? You're playing with oxygen and CO2. But it's the most, you know, if you looked at our existence and you said, okay,

• 1:42:32Speaker 03

  you could not eat for a week or two, no problem. You can. I can tell you that. I've done it. You could not eat and you'll be okay. You could not drink water for days and you're gonna still make it. But you can only not breathe for minutes.

• 1:42:46Speaker 03

  So as far as a priority for existence, breathing is the most important element that keeps us alive. Number one. And our relationship with our breath is so nonexistent.

• 1:43:00Speaker 03

  The most important thing you can do is begin to get a relationship with your breath. It's just that, if, like, we do a lot of stuff around with-

• 1:43:07Shawn Ryan?

  What does that mean, a relationship with your breath? What do you, what does that mean?

• 1:43:12Speaker 03

  It means have conscious breathing, like-

• 1:43:20Speaker 03

  Just bringing a consciousness to your breath, right? Just bringing, breathing in a way where you're thinking about your breath, you're breathing in and out, you're just, you have awareness, you're breathing through your nose, you're aware enough that you're breathing in and out through your nose. Like you're, or you're breathing in through your nose and out through your mouth. Like you're, you just bring, you bring, you bring a relationship. Cause otherwise you're walking around, you're not even thinking about breathing. Like no one's thinking about breathing, they're not thinking, like 90% of the people, I'll go somewhere, I'll give, I'll, I'll take people through a breathing pattern. And I'll tell people, you know, breathe like you're running down a mountain. They'll be going like this.

• 1:43:52Speaker 03

  I'm like, that's not a very fast run. Like you, like breathe like you're, like have a relationship with, with your breathing. Because that, that oxygen, I mean, first of all, oxygen and the relationship to all of the body functions. It's like number one, number one, number one, top of the list, most important thing that you can do. Then we get into, okay, eating and working out and all those other things. But breathing, and breathing is free. You own it and you can, it's like to, to bring you out of anxiety, to bring you out of, of, of any kind of angst. I mean, you can, you can bring kids out of angst, bring, I mean, you can definitely affect like you're, you're, you're,

• 1:44:35Speaker 03

  somebody's all, you know, tense and you get them to just do a simple pattern. As soon as you extend your breath beyond six to seven seconds, inhale, exhale, like as soon as you go.

• 1:44:55Speaker 03

  I mean, that is a down regular, you just go, right? If you're going, that's just, that's ramp up. So ramp up, ramp down, you can totally, you can totally start to play with your system that way. And that, that has a, that has a systemic effect on your health. Like I don't think we can even understand how, how important that, that relationship is with our overall health. We just don't, you know, I mean, of course, in, you know, in a lot of disciplines of meditation, it's all about the breath. It's all about the breathing, right? So it's just a way to go, I mean, and there's plenty of patterns you can get.

• 1:45:36Speaker 03

  Like I said, we have an app on XBTlife.com as an app that takes you through probably, you know, there are 10 different. Different patterns, some are twenty, thirty, forty minutes. I mean, I'll do, I'll take people through an hour-long breath pattern and they'll see ancestors. They'll have like, they'll have No kidding. Full out-of-body experiences, for real. Like, they'll have like, DMT. Cause you can release natural DMT through your system if you, if you do the patterns correctly, without a doubt. Have you had hallucinations? Yeah, absolutely. Like, harder to do it unless you're being walked through it. Like, it's, it's easier when somebody else is carrying the thing than when you're doing it yourself. And harder now that I've been doing it longer, it's, it's hard, it becomes harder and harder.

• 1:46:22Speaker 03

  You have to put more stress on the system. But we have some decompression drills that we do and some other, other, uh,

• 1:46:32Speaker 03

  just some other patterns that, but if you, again, when you start to play with the, with, with, with the breath, uh, uh, remember that breath is, breath and spirit, you know, I think we talked about this, you know, at breakfast, is that breath and spirit are pretty synonymous. If you look at most indigenous tribes, they always have a relationship with, you know, they call it the breath of life, right? And so you're talking about breathing and being alive or, you know, normally when somebody stops breathing, they're, they're, they think they're dead, like, that's what's happening. And so that relationship between breath and spirit are pretty, pretty synonymous. And, and so that's why I, that's why all the meditation and all the deep kind of monk,

• 1:47:17Speaker 03

  I mean, they, they have monks that, that heat blankets, you know, that, that can do a pattern that can heat, they dry wet blankets in the Himalayas where the guy sits naked, and they take these blankets and they wet blankets and put them on them and just through a pattern, he, they heat up their system, they can get their system so heated up that they can dry, dry a blanket. Like, that's how, that's how, uh, powerful the, the, the breath is. So, the breath is, the breath is, I mean, it's, it's, it's not a, it's not a, uh, a, and, and again, it's just right there, right? It's, you're overlooking it as being important. It's not, you're not putting it, you're not walking around going.

• 1:48:00Speaker 03

  You're just one round going, you're just breathing through your mouth in and out. You don't even, you're not even correlating the two. And so I, I mean, to have a breath practice on a regular basis is, I mean, I believe certain things like running and cycling are actually a way to forced breathe, that the body likes it so much. It gets people into like, why are people so possessed with running? Well, you get a high from running. Well, why do you get a high from running? Well, get a high from running because you're breathing. It's like, so I think there's a connection. I think we, we think it's about, oh, I'm all into this thing, but it's actually forced breathing. That these pattern, these biking and these running and these, all this cardio activity

• 1:48:42Speaker 03

  is really just forced breathing because people don't have the discipline to actually implement the breathing themselves. So, and it's, and like I said, it's the most, it's the one that's right in front of you. It's, it's sitting, it's sitting right in front of you. And people do, I mean, they do all kinds of crazy stuff with breath work. I mean, it's guy, you know, I think they've done some bacteria, you know, kill bacteria and, you know, all this, I mean, they can, you can, you can definitely oxygenate the system in a way that, that, that, that will help your, your health. Wow. What is your, what is your daily routine with breath work? Well, some of the, so first of all, I have some force techniques, which pool, pool training is probably the most, the simplest manual way.

• 1:49:27Speaker 03

  Now I'll do patterns, I'll do, I'll do, I'll do a couple of times a week. I'll just do a breath pattern on the, on the, on the deck. Now I usually don't do any,

• 1:49:38Speaker 03

  I don't do apnea, I don't do apnea breathing, which if you, if you understand what apnea is, it's, it's, it's a little, it's like freediving, what they do for freediving. So freediving, and they don't, they say they don't, but they, but you're, but you do. They say they don't, but you, you, there's kind of no way around it, but you can actually. Scrub your breath through hyperventilation, a type of hyperventilation. They also get used to really being, having a very, uh, very high acidity. So they get used to being really acidic, which is really high CO2 level, which happens after a long breath hold. But you scrub the CO2 and you oxygenate the system. And so what happens is as you burn the oxygen, the CO2 comes up,

• 1:50:19Speaker 03

  you, once you do that, once you lower the CO2 through hyperventilation, or, or just certain patterns, like say, let's say you do an apnea pattern where you're going, something like, something where you're, you're exhaling quite a bit. You lower the CO2, you can, you can extend breath holding for a very long time. Now, we never do that in the water because it's, uh, because you have risk of shallow water blackout. And, and we're, and we're averse to shallow water blackout. So we, we operate more towards doing, if you're going to do anything like apnea or one of those patterns, we do that on the pool deck. So we'll do the breath work on the deck. Because if you go out on the deck, no problem. You come to on the deck. It's not, it's not, it's not an

• 1:51:03Speaker 03

  issue. But I'll do a pattern, uh, a combination of tubo, Wim Hof Tumo with apnea and a couple other kind of other, other modalities implemented. It's kind of a, I call it scrambled eggs, but it, it's, it'll be, uh, maybe a minute straight of nose, mouth. So a minute of in nose, out mouth. And then once you get through that, then we do a breath hold on an exhale. So exhale, exhale, hold for maybe a minute. So you completely let all the air out and hold, hold for a minute, then inhale through your nose, hold for 30 seconds, then go back into that exhale, uh, nose, mouth, exhale, reload again, then do another exhale, hold, uh, again, re, reload

• 1:51:48Speaker 03

  again, then do, uh, maybe reload a little longer, then do an inhale, hold for a couple, three, four minutes, uh, and then go, and then re, and then reload again, and then do some broken up patterns where we're doing like in for 15 to 20 seconds, out, holding for 15, out for 15 to 20, in for 15 to 20, and so on. And then just do that as a pattern, uh, and then come back around and do a couple exhale, hold, inhale, holds and, and, uh, and just play with those, with those reloads, maybe really try to load up. Or you can do one that's called holotropic, which, uh,

• 1:52:23Speaker 03

  Which is, takes effort and, and, and people have, it's very useful for therapy. Um, they do a lot of therapy with holotropic, which is all, which usually is all mouth. And it's just like,

• 1:52:37Speaker 03

  you know, you do all mouth in and out and you do that for 30 minutes and you will take a ride.

• 1:52:44Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. What, what, what kind of stuff? I mean, does this help with stress levels or what, what does this help them with?

• 1:52:51Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Nothing it doesn't help with.

• 1:52:53Shawn Ryan?

  Nothing?

• 1:52:53Speaker 03

  There's nothing it doesn't help with. Like, first of all, uh, nitric oxide is a vasodilator like Viagra. So it, it, it vasodilates the system and the breath work, there's nothing that this doesn't help, help with your sleep, help with your digestion, help with your, help with everything. And, and, and, and truthfully, if you're, if you do breath work on a regular basis, your cardio vascular capacity increases. I mean, you're just, there's no, there's no, uh, there's nothing it doesn't help with. It helps with your, and your total physiology.

• 1:53:28Shawn Ryan?

  Let's talk about the healing power of nature.

• 1:53:34Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:53:35Shawn Ryan?

  Well, actually, let me, let me back practice one, just one question just came to my mind. How long have you been doing breath work?

• 1:53:44Speaker 03

  Well, I've been doing a, well, first of all, we used to do like in the summertime. One of the things that we did when we were younger was we run with stones on the bottom. So we'd carry a stone, you grab it, you run along the bottom and then the other guy swims and you do that in the summer for training. And then I, I would start to do for big wave stuff, we, we had things that we were naturally doing, which was a form of breath work already. So we would do cardiovascular, like run between, run between, uh, you know, coconut trees or something on the beach and, and then every, and then you breathe, you know, hold your breath for 15 seconds or 30, you know, 15, let's say do a 15 second breath hold run with a 30 second breath hold breathe, 30 second breath hold run.

• 1:54:28Speaker 03

  But you know, and do like incremental breath holds throughout cardiovascular. So that started as a kid. And I think because of the ocean and being around water, but my, my real, I would say my real kind of. Breathing so-called disciplines or modalities when I've gotten interested. I did some in yoga when I started doing yoga when I was younger in my twenties and thirties. And then, and then only in the last probably 10 years have I done real, you know, these kind of these, these more like modalities where I'm doing specific patterns.

• 1:55:06Shawn Ryan?

  And different techniques and stuff.

• 1:55:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:07Shawn Ryan?

  What is, reason I'm asking is what, what is some of the things? What did you get out of it? What are some of the immediate benefits that you were like, oh?

• 1:55:18Speaker 03

  Well, instantaneously I got a feeling of wellness, a feeling of calmness, like a real feeling, like a real, a real tranquil, you know, like a real settled.

• 1:55:30Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:55:30Speaker 03

  That was, that was the most obvious thing initially, right away. And then I, I would, I began feeling the benefits of in athletics, like in cardio, like in when I'm biking or when I'm doing some activity, my over, my ability just to perform, like my ability that I was just taking, I was having to, I just had another gear. I had another, a new gear that I didn't have. It was just taking me up. I wasn't breathing as hard to do the same activity. All of a sudden I was just more efficient. My breathing was more efficient and it didn't, and I could start to do stuff, actually breathing my nose, through my nose. So a lot of times like I can do, you know, do, do a pretty intense cardio thing, just breathing through the in and out of the nose,

• 1:56:14Speaker 03

  mouth, you know, and, and, and then, and then use the big hole when you really need it. Like when you're really trying to go. It's like I tell somebody, go, what do you do when you want to make a car faster? You just let more air in, you know, or let more air out. So it's just, just think of yourself as a motor. You start letting more air in and more air out. What happens? And the only way there can be more is if you actually use less in the beginning. So if you go, if you're always at the mouth, then you're always at the most. You don't really get the benefit. So when you start really incorporating the nose, then you get. You know, other than it, you know, the emitting, emitting of the gas and the absorption and the, you just get mental clarity and I mean, you, you'll see a visual thing like if I take,

• 1:56:56Speaker 03

  take you through a pattern and we do a thing, you'll see like, oh man, things are clearer. They're more rich, like the, the visual, like you get enhanced vision stuff just from the brain being oxygenated. So you just get more, you're just getting oxygen into places in your body that it's normally not getting. Because you're, you know, you're infusing it, your CO2.

• 1:57:16Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 1:57:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:17Shawn Ryan?

  Very interesting. I'm gonna, where, where would people start?

• 1:57:21Speaker 03

  Well, like I said, XPTlife.com has a good app in there. Or you, or you just search online for a good, good breathing app. Some of them are kind of not as great because they're like, they just have a mechanical pattern. Breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out, and it's kind of, it's not as good as somebody talking you through. I mean, we have some nice ones that people talk you through, but there are plenty. I mean, there's beyond stuff about breathing, you get into breathing. But I would start, uh, I would start with something, you know, just a simple, a simple pattern. I would go to a, you know, some kind of apnea or some kind of, one of those patterns just to begin to feel uh, the benefits and start to do it. I mean, it's, it's, the, that's some, it's real, like it's a real, like,

• 1:58:04Speaker 03

  it's, it's real work and it's, and it's, uh, as a tool, it's really good to just have that in your pocket. Like little, hey, you know what, I'm feeling a little this, little that, little breathing and all of a sudden. I mean, if you look at a sigh, think about a sigh, so when you go,

• 1:58:26Speaker 03

  I mean, you think what a sigh does, a sigh is just like, just a down regulator. So you get a little, your little angst, take a big breath, take a sigh, it's like all of a sudden. And there's actually, I, I saw, uh, I saw a video of a, of a, uh, like a ultrasound video of your diaphragm when you exhale, comes up as the heart was beating, comes up and touches the heart, the heart just totally slows down.

• 1:58:51Shawn Ryan?

  Are you serious? Wow.

• 1:58:53Speaker 03

  The diaphragm comes up and touches the heart and as soon as it touches the heart, the heart just goes, just totally slows down. It was like, but you can see it when you sigh, like when you, when you go, like you take a big breath and then you just go.

• 1:59:10Speaker 03

  I mean, it just, you just

• 1:59:13Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:13Speaker 03

  Down regular. So all those patterns have a different, you can rev up, you can rev down, you can, I mean, it's just, it's a, it's a super, super useful tool.

• 1:59:22Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. I'm gonna, I gotta get into that.

• 1:59:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're gonna give me your, um, you're gonna give me the results. I'm gonna, you're gonna call me and be like, "Hey, man, that stuff's awesome."

• 1:59:31Shawn Ryan?

  I will.

• 1:59:32Speaker 03

  Seriously.

• 1:59:33Shawn Ryan?

  When I come out there, we gotta do this.

• 1:59:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:36Shawn Ryan?

  We gotta do this.

• 1:59:36Speaker 03

  I'll walk you through a, you'll, you'll, uh, it's fun for me because I get to, I get to take people on a little ride sometimes and they always have, you just have all kinds of effects on your system that, because you're getting, first of all, you're getting acidified in a way that's more acidic than you're used to. And then you're getting oxygenated in a way that more than you're used to. So you, your body's doing all kinds of, you're like, what's even, lips are twitching and people are seeing things and it's, it's cool.

• 1:59:59Shawn Ryan?

  That's awesome. Let's talk about the, the healing foul, the healing power of nature. That's something that, that, uh, you're a big proponent of. And so

• 2:00:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:10Shawn Ryan?

  I'd like to dive into that.

• 2:00:10Speaker 03

  It's the king. Well, first of all, green, the color green has the most shades of any color, but it's also really soothing on the brain. Like the, like looking at a landscape, they've done studies where people look at landscapes and just the, this, the, the effect that it has on just your spirit and calms you. I mean, it's, nature is, I mean, other than, other than just being in it, I mean, I, there's, there's, there's, you know, like I said, the visual alone, the, the sounds, the, the, the oxygen, uh, I mean, you know, it's like trees are making oxygen. You go for a forest, you're like, go through a forest, like, oh my gosh, and my appetite increased and my metabolism and my,

• 2:00:54Speaker 03

  you know, and, and, and I think there's something, uh, there's something about.

• 2:01:01Speaker 03

  There's something about nature in a way that that you feel that you're, because you're from nature, that you feel so included. I think when you, when you, when you're in man-made things, you don't have that same feeling. You don't feel included. You don't feel like you're part of or from. And I think when you're in nature, no matter what, you feel like you're just, you're from it. You're part of it. You're, and if you don't, you just need to spend a little more time. But it's, it's, I mean, I, I

• 2:01:31Speaker 03

  I know that, that what it does for me, I know, I, I see what, how people benefit. And I think the more, you know, the more alive it is, I mean, the, the, the, you know, walk through the forest of sunrise, a sunset, a stream, the birds, the, I mean, it's just, I mean, it's creation. It's, you're, you're, you're, you're putting yourself in creation and, and

• 2:01:59Speaker 03

  it, it brings you, you know, I mean, you know, I always pull Gabby out at night, sunrise, sunset, moon, stars. It's like, I mean, it, it's, it's just a reminder that you're part of something. Well, I always say, first of all,

• 2:02:20Speaker 03

  too elaborate. Too elaborate. When you see nature, it's just too elaborate to not, to be not just something by coincidence. How could it? Like something that elaborate, that sophisticated, that, that amazing, that massive, that, to be coincidence? Like, come on, like, come on, to, come on, too elaborate. So that's, I think that puts you in a, in a, in a, in, in the right state of mind. Like, I think when you're in that state of mind, I think you're in a better, that, that's a good state of mind to be. Here, like to be dealing with all the stuff, to be dealing with family, to be dealing with,

• 2:03:05Speaker 03

  with work, to be dealing with all that stuff. I think that that state of mind of that, looking at it, the sophistication, the elegance, the beauty, the, the, the power, the, all of the savageness, all of it, i- is just, I think that puts you in the state of mind to, to, to have a sense of, of being, have a sense of that you're part of something, that you're part of, you know, I mean, we don't feel like part of something any other time, especially not with all the stuff we made. You don't feel like you're part of something. You feel like you're separated from everything when you're in the stuff that we've created. You don't feel like you're part of it. I mean, it's still, there's some amazing things that man has created, but it's not, I mean, can you

• 2:03:50Speaker 03

  comparison? Come on, it was like, you're talking about, you know, child's play compared to like this thing, it's like.

• 2:03:57Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. I mean, I always feel, I always feel better, you know, when I come out of, out of nature and get out of, get out of the rat race, get out of the man-made stuff. I mean, that's, that's part of the reason why we moved to Tennessee was to get more rural and to get out and, and, and, and live in it.

• 2:04:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, well, it's close here, too. You're, you're surrounded by it.

• 2:04:22Shawn Ryan?

  Yep.

• 2:04:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:24Shawn Ryan?

  Yep.

• 2:04:24Speaker 03

  Well, I got, when I looked up this, and I saw the sunrise this morning on those hills, I was like, oh yeah, this is, that's why it's, that's why calling people.

• 2:04:32Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, the, the, I mean,

• 2:04:36Speaker 03

  you know, I, I think the ocean obviously is, has a, has a, a special place for me because of the,

• 2:04:45Speaker 03

  I mean, what it, what it's, it's been my greatest teacher, you know, it's been my, it's been, I went to the, I always say, you, you think I M I T is good, you should see the Pacific Ocean, man, that's like this, you know, it's, it's another, it's something.

• 2:05:02Speaker 03

  Something so, so beyond really our, our, our, our level of, of understanding. I think it's just the, you know, we don't have the capacity to fully understand and understand, you know, what, what that, what it is and how sophisticated and powerful and scary. And, you know, it's just, I, I think every, I think all my, I know I've been blessed so much by the ocean, everything I, you know, everything I am and have is some indirect part of the ocean. And so I, I owe it my life and, you know, it's, but it's, but it's all, we're all connected. It's all part of the, the, you know, the globe.

• 2:05:48Shawn Ryan?

  Oh yeah. Well, speaking of water, let's get into that. Do you know anything about water absorption into the body? I've started looking into this a little bit.

• 2:05:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. I, I mean, I only know, uh, well, I know that we just don't get the minerals that we need in our, in our system. And I know that, I know that there's a relationship. I mean, water is really elaborate. I think we still don't fully understand water. I, I'm fascinated by, but we don't, I mean, the fact that water can, you know, go through all these different elemental phases. It's gas, it's liquid, it's, it's hard. I mean, I, if ice didn't float, then there would be no life. I mean, it's like, it's just the thing. And then, and then, you know, I have voritators at my house that vorate the water. And I mean, there's all this.

• 2:06:38Shawn Ryan?

  What is a voritator?

• 2:06:39Speaker 03

  Uh, it spins the water. So it, it, it spins the water and changes the, the shape, the.

• 2:06:45Shawn Ryan?

  I have that.

• 2:06:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:47Shawn Ryan?

  I just got one a couple of months ago.

• 2:06:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:50Shawn Ryan?

  And, uh,

• 2:06:50Speaker 03

  You can taste the difference.

• 2:06:51Shawn Ryan?

  I was hoping you were gonna go into this.

• 2:06:53Speaker 03

  Do you taste the difference?

• 2:06:54Shawn Ryan?

  I do. I taste the difference. I feel different after the shower. My hands feel different after I wash my hands.

• 2:07:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:01Shawn Ryan?

  And so the way, so I started looking into this.

• 2:07:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, water's alive.

• 2:07:05Shawn Ryan?

  All the shit that's in public utilities.

• 2:07:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:09Shawn Ryan?

  And. I I had read an article that calcium from the public water system will cake to your pineal gland.

• 2:07:19Speaker 03

  Definitely. Well, so does fluoride.

• 2:07:21Shawn Ryan?

  And fluoride.

• 2:07:22Speaker 03

  Calcified. Chloride, fluoride calcifies the pineal gland. Yeah, there's a big case right now on fluoride.

• 2:07:28Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 2:07:29Speaker 03

  Big one. And they've been holding it back for a little while. There's a case. I'll send you the stuff. I'll let you see it. It's it's it's it's a about about getting the getting the fluoride. They have a bunch of studies. They want to get the fluoride pulled out of our supplies. It's it's it's a it's a calcification, like you said, of the pineal gland, which is your antenna.

• 2:07:50Shawn Ryan?

  Yep.

• 2:07:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:51Shawn Ryan?

  And so the way it was described, so I got this filtration system that it it's I mean, I've never had one before. It seems pretty elaborate, but it goes through three filters and then it goes through a thing that spins the water like the way they call it a biodyneizer or something like that.

• 2:08:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, but it's rotating it.

• 2:08:10Shawn Ryan?

  Yep. And so the way it was described to me is if you if you crystallize water in nature, it will look beautiful, be perfectly symmetrical and and and and yeah, it'll be perfect crystallization of water, beautiful, symmetrical.

• 2:08:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:30Shawn Ryan?

  If you take tap water.

• 2:08:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:33Shawn Ryan?

  And crystallize it.

• 2:08:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:35Shawn Ryan?

  It looks like shit. It's not symmetrical. It's not it's not beautiful, elaborate or any of that. And so the way it was described is that your cells can't absorb the tap water.

• 2:08:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:51Shawn Ryan?

  The way the way it comes out. So but it can absorb something from nature.

• 2:08:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:57Shawn Ryan?

  You know, when it's when it's crystallized perfectly. And so what this filtration system does, it goes through two filters, then it goes to the biodyneizer. The biodyneizer tricks the water.

• 2:09:12Shawn Ryan?

  Somehow to where it thinks that it has come out of nature and when you crystallize it after it comes out of it, when it does the spin,

• 2:09:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:21Shawn Ryan?

  It, it, it's a perfect crystallization. So your body absorbs it the way it's supposed to. And, um, yeah.

• 2:09:32Speaker 03

  Well, there's some crazy books about water in there about where the, like this one Japanese scientist plays music, different kinds of music and shows different pictures to water and then takes pictures of the crystals. And then the like, the, the one that they show like some negative hard rock gnarly music or some other bad evil picture, the, the crystals are completely deformed. And the one that they show like Mozart or they show picture of Jesus or it's like completely like elaborate patterns. And it's like, it's like some real radical stuff, like how, how, uh, how much of a conductor water is of energy and that part of what happens too is they're vortating it because

• 2:10:14Speaker 03

  the, the 90 degree angles kill the vortation. And so everything in the rivers and everything in the thing is vortating it. In fact, your, your, all your fascias vortates around your body and so does your, like your urine, when it comes out, it's vortating the blood through your veins. The blood doesn't just flow through your veins. It vortates through your veins. Right? So everything is spinning, literally spinning through your system and, uh, but the water, yeah, there's a bunch of, there's some crazy, there's a new product that they're supposedly coming out with. It's called, it's a special kind of thing that influences the other water, but the water is super, super, uh, conductive to energy. And it's so, it's like the most conductive substance and, and,

• 2:10:59Speaker 03

  uh, and, and I'll, I'll show you, I'll send you the book. Um, uh, I'll sell you, tell you the book of the, of the Japanese guy that did all the study, but they've done some radical studies, um, with water and they still are perplexed, like water does some stuff that, that they just are scratching their heads even today with all the technology that we have. We're having trouble even understanding. So one of the things that for, for sure works good too is, is I, we need, we need, we need, uh,

• 2:11:31Speaker 03

  Other than that water, the rotation of the water, we definitely need to use minerals. Like, we definitely need, we're definitely mineral deficient. And that minerals help us absorb, absorb the water too.

• 2:11:43Shawn Ryan?

  Isn't, isn't it crazy how we, it's, it's like, we didn't know anything about all these elements in their natural state. So we manipulate them, you know, into whatever, and put calcium and fluoride and all this stuff into water and hormones in the meat and, and pesticides and fertilizers and all these things. And now, when we didn't even understand the natural state, obviously. And now, here we are, who knows how many years later, I mean, this has been probably way before me or you ever came along, right? And now you're seeing this movement, at least I'm seeing it, this movement, I mean, layered superfoods, right?

• 2:12:26Shawn Ryan?

  All the stuff we're talking about right now, biohacking, it's all coming back to, okay, all this shit that we put in everything that we thought, you know, may have been beneficial, turns out is horrible for you. And it's all going right back to, how do we get back to a natural state?

• 2:12:46Speaker 03

  Right back to how it was made.

• 2:12:49Speaker 03

  Did a good job in the first time.

• 2:12:50Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:51Speaker 03

  Our, our audacity to think that somehow we're smarter than the creator or the creation, that's amazing. That's pretty, well, first of all, you know, how dare us?

• 2:13:02Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:02Speaker 03

  How, how dare us? But it is ironic that we're having to, hey, if you just went outside and if you just picked up a couple of stones and maybe weeded some plants and did the thing and got this herb and made that tea and, you know, swam in that river and I mean, it's like all of a sudden, this is all, I mean, i- i- it's just ironic that we're, we, we moved ourselves in, convenientize everything and now we're having to like, go back and reenact. We're having to go back to just try to get back these things that we were naturally doing when we were, there, there's some, I heard a crazy statistic that they said that when we were hunter gatherers, that it took us about thirty-eight hours a week. To do everything we needed to do to to survive. No kidding.

• 2:13:47Speaker 03

  And I'm like, now, I go, I go thirty eight hours a week. I go, right now, we're barely. I mean, we can't even thirty eight hours wouldn't get us halfway through the work week. No kidding, man. Crazy. No kidding. But yet with all the conveniences. So somehow where everything's so convenient, yet it takes us more time than ever. To, you know, oh, yeah, I forgot my, you know, my code and I gotta re, I mean, how many? They have some crazy thing about stats on how long it takes people to punch in all their, all their little codes and all their stuff like it's like. Minutes a day, hours a month, like that you're just punching codes in. I don't even wanna think about that.

• 2:14:26Speaker 03

  And we're having to re reenact like being out in the sunlight, drinking water out of a river like, you know, eating fish from the thing. You, you know, just all this, all this, all this stuff. But you do, but I mean, it's, but we have to, we don't have a choice. We're not, we're not in a position to, to, we can laugh about it, but we're, we don't have the luxury to not. Be conscious and aware of what's happening and make and make a difference because we're just, we're the direction we're, we're headed at a wall. Full speed and we gotta, some of us have to turn the car to left and we gotta make a left or a right because. Because right now the way we're going, it's, it doesn't look, it's, you know. Looks pretty grim.

• 2:15:09Speaker 03

  Doesn't look good, doesn't look good. And so we need to, you know, we need to, and fortunately. What we do has, we do have nature there for us to, to, and so if we just let enough of it survive and then learn about it quick enough. We might have a fighting chance because it's there. There's some, there's some beautiful, there's a, my friend that I told you. Susan Casey wrote a beautiful book about the waves, but she also wrote one called The Underworld. And there's about the bottom of the ocean and there's, they discovered, they've discovered microbes down there that. That go through the blood brain barrier and actually eat brain tumors. But as just one like, just one example of the things that there are in nature to cure every single thing that we have. It's like, it's all there.

• 2:15:55Speaker 03

  Let's, if we just don't destroy it all, you know, it's like the Amazon probably had every cure that you could ever, for every single thing you ever had wrong. Yeah. Probably already had that. And I know between the bottom of the ocean, the bottom of the ocean. Has got everything. That's our, I call it the cloud. Everything that's ever existed is there. And so we, we need to, we need to learn more, but we also need to protect the, the, you know, the last remaining things. Like that's part of our thing is I think we got to get into a protective mode around, uh,

• 2:16:30Speaker 03

  enough of, and the modalities based on that. We have to really try to, you know, work on protecting the last stuff around Chinese medicine and herbal medicine and like all this stuff about herbs and plants and, and native, all these native medicines that we, that, that have just been slowly going away and there's just still a few, you know, remaining things that we need that we can, cause that's our, that's where it is. It's all there.

• 2:16:56Shawn Ryan?

  It's crazy how fast we're destroying it. You know, I mean, like just a couple of minutes ago, I was telling you, we moved, we moved from South Florida to Tennessee to get out of.

• 2:17:07Speaker 03

  Destruction.

• 2:17:08Shawn Ryan?

  Exactly. And we came here and now there's like this huge movement of all these people moving to Tennessee. This, I mean, this town, this state has grown 20% year after year since COVID. And I'm just watching the nature be destroyed.

• 2:17:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:27Shawn Ryan?

  Acre by acre, you know, what used to be a horizon of trees and rolling hills and, and creeks and rivers and streams is now a subdivision where the houses are literally built five feet apart from each other. They're just stacking.

• 2:17:43Speaker 03

  Well, I always, I always ask, I go, why do we have to do it? It's just, but it's.

• 2:17:47Shawn Ryan?

  Yep. Yep.

• 2:17:49Speaker 03

  Density makes the money. Come on, you just put, just give them some space so we can leave nature and, and also help people too. We're not great all piled together like that. I mean, some of us can handle it, but it's hard on you to be that dense on top of each other.

• 2:18:03Shawn Ryan?

  I couldn't do it.

• 2:18:04Speaker 03

  It's like, they make places for that. If you wanted, you can go to New York.

• 2:18:08Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Yeah. But have I heard you talk about water and compression before? I feel like I've

• 2:18:15Speaker 03

  Well, I talked about the pool training, that the compression of water allows the blood to flow through your lymphatic system in a, in a, in a very short time. Like it normally takes like 24 hours to do that. So water compression is, is amazing on the, that's why swimmers don't really get sore. Like when you see swimmers swim and they swim, if you did that much movement in a gym, you'd next day you'd be wounded. But swimmers, you'll get tired, but you don't get like muscle soreness like you do from like something like lifting. And so it's because of that compression and that, and that flow. But there's a bunch of other benefits that that has around even traumatic, some brain stuff around concussions that they're doing. Yeah, like where they're going down to the second atmosphere.

• 2:19:00Speaker 03

  I have some friends that are studying that stuff where they're like, you're jumping with weights. You go down in the deep end and then just jump up and down. But something about the water flowing on your head is like flowing through the lymphatic system. So there's some, I mean, the water had, we know the water has healing powers, right? We know it's, it's the, the healing, the healing powers of water are, are, are great. And I, I think we've just only be, I mean, you get negative ions when waves are breaking in the ocean. And you get all, you absorb a lot of the minerals out of the salinity. I mean, I mean, I think the things that were, we don't even, again, back to it's in nature. We just don't know it, right? So we're just like, hey, I don't know why, but I sure love to go.

• 2:19:41Speaker 03

  And meanwhile, if you, you know, if it's not some negative, bad habit, the, part of the reason why people are attracted to these environments and these situations are because they're getting some physiological benefit. They're getting a benefit from, from it without even knowing. They just intuitively feel it, they sense it. They're like, oh, why do I, oh, I love to go to the, you know, on that walk or that hike or swim in that stream or go in that ocean or look at that horizon or, I mean, but then after you look at the science behind it and you're like, well, that's because you get this. You know, it's like, but you intuitively know it, it's in built into your. It's built into you. You're connected to it.

• 2:20:20Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:20:21Speaker 03

  If you are, and if you're not, then you have to reconnect, right?

• 2:20:24Shawn Ryan?

  Well, a lot of people need to reconnect.

• 2:20:26Speaker 03

  Reconnect. We're in the reconnect mode right now.

• 2:20:28Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:28Speaker 03

  You see that the pandemic definitely threw people into into being more concerned about their health and about reconnecting with nature. I mean, I think everybody ran to the coastlines and to the Costa Rica and Hawaii and Tennessee and any place there was nature. Ha ha. Why? Why does everybody, why when there's a pandemic, everybody runs to nature? Well, because, you know?

• 2:20:48Shawn Ryan?

  Freedom.

• 2:20:48Speaker 03

  They, well, and they're ten and intuitively, right? You intuitively know that that's, you know? That's the place. That's the place to be.

• 2:20:57Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Let's get into. I mean. Laird Superfoods.

• 2:21:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:04Shawn Ryan?

  Why did you, I feel like you started that to help yourself.

• 2:21:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, well.

• 2:21:12Speaker 03

  The original, the original creamer, the very first one, the sweetened creamy, that first product that we came out of was from a recipe, was from a recipe that I had been making for myself and sharing with friends. And it was something to, it was like a, it was like a I want to say like a you know, like a

• 2:21:36Speaker 03

  energy, energy drink. It was like an energy drink for me. It was like, okay, in the morning, wake up, drink something that you can go and do, you know, five, six, whatever, eight hours of activity and not need anything else. And so that's where it started. It started out of, and it started originally started with my, first of all, my love for coffee, because I love coffee. So then I was like, oh, you know, I love coffee. So, oh, let me see if I can, and I had learned

• 2:22:02Speaker 03

  years ago about ghee, the relationship with ghee, which is clarified butter and caffeine with, for tea and espresso, they, they use it in the Himalayas and and then the bulletproof guy came out and had his, his coconut oil and his bulletproof coffee. So I was kind of like, okay, so I had had multiple exposures, but I got kind of my own recipe. I just started playing with stuff and putting stuff that I liked in it, like, and I love turmeric, so I, I put a lot of turmeric in it. And turmeric is, you know, really good anti-inflammatory and really good for gut health. So like, I think in India, they have very minimal gut digestional diseases of any kind, and they attribute that to turmeric. So.

• 2:22:47Speaker 03

  I that first that first uh that first drink I'd share with buddies and they'd be like we'd go out in the ocean and they'd be out there and they'd be like what what's in this like what is this and I try to explain it and and one of my friends said hey let me let let me try to make a powdered version I'll just make a powdered version see if we can't get a powdered version because he drank it and loved it and then we like the third rendition through was the uh the original or the sweet and creamy that was the first product

• 2:23:15Shawn Ryan?

  so you you literally just came up with these concoctions in your

• 2:23:19Speaker 03

  yeah

• 2:23:20Shawn Ryan?

  in your in your home

• 2:23:21Speaker 03

  yeah that's how it started

• 2:23:22Shawn Ryan?

  and then a friend said let me replicate this

• 2:23:25Speaker 03

  yeah

• 2:23:26Shawn Ryan?

  no kidding so legitimately it was just to help yourself so it was legitimate it did it legitimately started with you just trying to improve your own health

• 2:23:36Speaker 03

  totally totally and then and then I would get athletes that asked me they'd be like oh you know how'd you get that company and this and that to give you that I'm like we started it from scratch like we like I like I had the I had the recipe made the thing first one then we just started trying to sell it online to people that were in my circle and all of a sudden it was just like we were just selling online and they was like oh well let's make another flavor oh I like turmeric okay let's make a turmeric one oh I like let's go to oh yeah the the cacao is great and I like cacao and so and then so we started building off of that off of that original platform and then looking for because the philosophy which has always been with and Gabby laughs but it's I I have a philosophy that if you're doing something every day

• 2:24:21Speaker 03

  like your toothbrush I mean your toothpaste your soap like this is not a place to put trash on you and garbage this you don't consume like things you're doing on a daily basis because they're they're accumulative so a little arsenic over a long time is a lot of arsenic a little poison over a long time is a lot of poison a little health over a long time is a lot of health and so I I looked at it like like Quality of the soap that you use is on your skin. It's so you're absorbing it. The toothpaste you're putting in your mouth, that you're you're drinking that, the drink, the stuff you're just the things you're doing on these daily basis. This is the area to start, right? Coffee, you're doing, if you're drinking coffee, if you're drinking tea every day,

• 2:25:03Speaker 03

  you don't be just drinking some terrible tea. Drink some like tea, like find a good tea that's high quality, that you know where it's coming from. Uh, and so that's kind of the premise of it. And I'd already been doing that stuff in my life naturally. That just was normal. So to do that in this genre was completely like, yeah, that's what I'm gonna do. I I was, I mean, listen, I used to have beans flown in from places because I was into beans, like the good quality, like I'm not gonna just drink any garbage coffee. It's like if if I if there all there was was to drink the coffee that's around, I would never, I wouldn't even drink coffee. I wouldn't. Really? Yeah, no, there's no way. I wouldn't just drink that stuff. It's like battery acid, like pick green,

• 2:25:42Speaker 03

  you know, chemical fertilized and and roasted terribly. It's like, no wonder you gotta put like a gallon of milk and ten scoops of sugar just to survive. Like, I wouldn't even touch that stuff. So uh, so that's kind of the philosophy of the of the whole thing, right? The acumen. And then what are you doing on a daily basis while you know you're hydrating, right? You know, you're sleeping, you know, you know, you're, you know, these are these categories that you know you're, you know, you need your greens, you know, you know, these are the things you might have a snack. Okay, here's a bar. Like, these are things that we're doing consistently, right? And so build off of those those things. These other one-off things that's less interesting, you know, hey, I'm gonna have such and such a meal. Yeah, you might do that once, twice a week or whatever.

• 2:26:24Speaker 03

  And in in in those areas, it's not as important as it is on these things that consist. Because it's all about, it's just like training. If you just, a little workout every single day is a lot of workout. Right? Never mind just, I train like an animal, yeah, two days a week and break myself and I can't move the rest of the time. It's like, no, I'd rather just have that, you know, it's again, it's the discipline. And uh, and so it's based on that. The brand itself is based on that. And then the quality, you know, nature made it perfectly. Don't mess it up. We still have to try to, you know, our challenge is always to find the best ingredients, make it affordable, because we we don't wanna make it exclusive, because normally health is exclusive. North health is only for the wealth. Like, you gotta afford it. The stuff is, I mean, if, like, I have a

• 2:27:08Speaker 03

  a friend of mine grows some of the best turmeric in the world, right, in Hawaii? But it's so expensive, it would be ninety dollar bag of. You know, Tumor Creamer. It's like, yeah, you, me and my three friends that would use it. Maybe just not even you, maybe me, but, but, but, but you know what I mean? So, so in a way to, to, to do that, I think that's the challenge too, is to get it. And the people that need it the most are the ones that can barely afford it. So that's also the piece of it too, like that we want to make it. Cause we feel like it's an opportunity to share, uh, kind of the, the values, right? In a way you're able to touch people and, and I run into a lot of people. You know, I run into, you know, old grandmas that like love it.

• 2:27:52Speaker 03

  It's like, I love that stuff so much and I gave it to my, you know, or some, I'll meet some guy and it'll be like, oh yeah, I got this from my mom. She gave it to me. I'm like, what? And she's like, oh yeah, she's into it. Like, so we see the, the traction, we see who it's affecting, uh, which drives us more to hold the line and to try to make things, you know, to, to have a, I mean, we have guardrails on the thing and, you know, Gabby and I, we, I always laugh because I, I'm function cheese taste. So we're, cause I'm dealing with, hey, I, I, I would drink mud every day. Like I eat raw eggs blended in the morning every single day. I got no problem eating things that taste terrible if they, if they're good for me. I can just, I have no problem doing that. And that, but she's like, but people won't do it every day.

• 2:28:35Speaker 03

  And I go, I know that. So we're gonna make it taste good so that we can get, you know, so we can get people consistent. And then they, in, in a way, it's almost like, then they can, once they start doing it on a regular basis, then they're more open to trying things that maybe are a little more elaborate, a little more sophisticated. And so as we go, we can offer things that maybe, that they wouldn't be able to start with. Cause we're trying to get them with, you know, you try to get people with where they are. You gotta go, well, how do you, what do you drink? Well, I drink a double mocha latte with extra foam. And you're like, okay, well, I'm gonna have to figure out how to make that and make it that out of good, healthy things. I mean, it's gonna be a little tricky, but I'm making it as close as I can and still be good for you, you know?

• 2:29:15Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. I mean, you guys have hit, I mean, let me reiterate, I think I said this at the beginning. But, you know?

• 2:29:25Shawn Ryan?

  Was I the most impressive thing to me is that is the it's it's the cleanest ingredients, you know, and and and that's what really drew my attention was hey, we source, we try to source everything in the United States, which I think is important.

• 2:29:40Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:29:40Shawn Ryan?

  And the only time we go outside of the US is if it's a higher quality ingredient.

• 2:29:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, or they just we don't have it like we like coconut, like you just can't find coconut in America. It's just like we gotta go to like, okay, where are we going? The Philippines? Okay, Philippines or, you know, or Sri Lanka or somewhere. I mean, you said it's like where who has coconuts and who can make the, you know, for that particular ingredients. But for for sure, I mean, I I in my, I mean, my goal is to be able to implement growing a lot of the stuff myself. Like, I already have some of the projects where I'm going to be start to try to implement growing ingredients because I'd like to become more vertically integrated because ultimately I can control everything. Then I know exactly what's in the dirt. Then I know exactly what's in the plant. And then I know exactly what's in the people. And that allows us to get higher quality stuff to people because

• 2:30:28Speaker 03

  then we don't have three people along the chain putting their take on it, which makes everything just go up. Right? So that's the that's where you want to go. It's just that's a harder, longer process. And so we got to survive till then. But that would be the if you know, if we could grow a bunch of the ingredients ourselves, or or any or even have relationships and be in partnership with farmers. I mean, that's, that's what you want to that's, that's where you go. You go, that's where you because then you have, then you know exactly what's, what's happening. Then you got yourself some real otherwise, you're just kind of at the mercy of trusting that the, you know, that the so called people are doing what they're supposed to and the people that are supposed to check on the people doing what they're supposed to are doing what they're supposed

• 2:31:10Speaker 03

  to. And you know, it's all that, you know, all that stuff.

• 2:31:14Shawn Ryan?

  How did how did you find out about functional mushrooms? That's what really that was the first thing that really drew me to you guys was was I think I told you I'd I'd done a psychedelic. Yeah, I did. We talked about it on here. We did a psychedelic.

• 2:31:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, it changed your life.

• 2:31:31Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. And and so that.

• 2:31:34Shawn Ryan?

  That triggered me to look into functional mushrooms because you know, I worry a lot about brain health and and and I'm a huge proponent of mental health and with traumatic brain injuries, you know, um dementia, Alzheimer's.

• 2:31:48Speaker 03

  Well dementia, I mean, listen, I know lion's uh lion's mane is like a little uh uh has a dementia uh like a buffer from dementia as one example, lion's mane specifically just for dementia, but you know, my my uh I think my my first, somebody gave me a chaga like a lot years ago in Alaska, a chunk of some random guy just said, hey, here's a here's some chaga and so and I had already always been uh I mean, listen, in Hawaii, you had people had there was mushroom, there was hippies that had mushrooms and and and

• 2:32:26Speaker 03

  in you know, cow pastures and there but because of because of how I grew up around all these different, we have this thing called uh pipaia, which is this weird like fungus that you collect in the trees and that we use it, we cook it with food, we make a we make a dish with food in it. So I've already I've already I've always had kind of relationship with with fungi and and and understood and understood that, you know, that mushrooms and and so the uh uh but cordyceps specifically is a helps you increases your VO2 max. So

• 2:33:07Speaker 03

  cordyceps improves your VO your let me put it this way, cordyceps has helped your body ability to absorb oxygen. As one thing, so as a as a and I think that was the beginning, part of the beginning, chaga was the king. I got exposed, somebody gave me a giant chaga and I'm like, this thing's crazy. And then I and then he gave they gave me a paper that told me all the benefits and they said that there was a. There's a famous guy called the Iceman or something that was thirteen thousand years old or something in in Europe that they found like some mummy and he supposedly had a satchel on his waist that had a chunk of Chaga inside the little pouch like he had a pouch like on this mummy or something that had a had a so I had a couple weird little things happen like

• 2:33:52Speaker 03

  like this guy had a chunk of Chaga and you know some ice creature that they found that had a and then a guy gave me one and and and then gave me a paper list of like the I mean in the fifty things that it was good for like solve you know cured grandma's this cancer that thing that all you know just the list was a crazy list This is all from Chaga? Chaga, yeah so then so then that then cordyceps come along cordyceps are like oh yeah oxygen absorption you know helps in VO2 max I'm like well that's you're on my you know so that brought kind of awareness to to and I'd been using another product I was telling you about called Sheila jet for more than twenty or thirty years so

• 2:34:35Speaker 03

  I've always been connected to plant medicine plant and the values of all like what plants can do just because we had it in Hawaii there's the Hawaiian medicine men that have all kinds of plants that that they make stuff out of to cure all kinds that we have a fruit called noni the it's a it's a fruit that it smells like vomit but but but it cures like heartworm and cures diabetes guys I have friends that were diabetic that cured their diabetes I mean I just a bunch of different things so I'm already naturally connected to

• 2:35:12Speaker 03

  there's plants that are medicine they cure things it's healthy like all that thing so when so when there starts to be information about mushrooms early on I was like well yeah that's that's of course like that and so and these these I would say the

• 2:35:29Speaker 03

  These format, like these format, these, these, these creamers, these coffees, these teas, this, this fat stuff is an incredible way to put stuff into your, into your system. Like, and so we have performance mushroom separate. So you can scoop as much as you want, but we also have it incorporated in to it. But the fat in general and most of these products are really designed to help you absorb. So there's some crazy things that happen. So, and back to what we were talking about early and I'll just, I'll make it light of it. But if you look at, think about salt and pepper, right? You think about salt and pepper and you go, well, why do you put salt and pepper on food? Taste, flavor.

• 2:36:12Speaker 03

  Well, you'd think, wouldn't you? But, but what does that mean? When you, when it tastes better?

• 2:36:20Speaker 03

  What do you think that means? It means.

• 2:36:24Speaker 03

  Absorption. It's connected to absorption, has nothing to do with taste. So in a way, you were putting things on. Again, what did I say? We looked at the sunrise and the sunset. Cause it's beautiful. No, cause it's good for you. And then it's beautiful. We put salt and pepper on the food. Cause it makes it taste better. No, cause you absorb better. Makes it taste good. What came first? But ultimately the absorption, right? So when you salivate, you eat something and it tastes really good. All the enzymes to digest it.

• 2:36:58Speaker 03

  There, that's all stimulated by the flavor, which results in your ability to absorb it better. Like there's some things where you put, they put pepper. They, like if you take pepper with turmeric, you absorb it better. Like they have turmeric shots and they put peppery in it, pepper, because you have better absorption. Well, then wouldn't you have better absorption from anything you put pepper on? Absolutely. That's the reason to put pepper on it. Cause you actually absorb better. When you use olive oil and you use butter on vegetables. Your brain wants the fat, so you absorb more nutrients because the body absorbs the fat and the nutrients right along in the thing. So there's like this, none of this stuff we do,

• 2:37:38Speaker 03

  we don't do things for no reason. Like flavor isn't, we made flavor become something and we abused it, right? We made things taste good that weren't good for you because tasting good actually had a function and we were able to abuse that. Now, this is, some of this is my theory, but some of this is the facts of what the thing actually does. But when you put spices in certain things on food that enhances flavor, that enhances absorption. And I, and I'd be real surprised if there's any science that says different because it just, it's an obvious thing. Like, of course it does. Like it tastes good, makes you salivate, you create enzymes that make you absorb shit better thing. It wouldn't, why, we wouldn't do it. In nature, there wouldn't be,

• 2:38:23Speaker 03

  it's like, they used to think your tonsils didn't do anything. Now they realize they probably do something, so don't cut them out unless you need to. Like, like, there's nothing for no reason. None of it's there for no reason. You don't make stuff taste good for, just because it tastes good. We don't just do things to, to, to make it, you know, maybe sex, but we don't do things for no reason. But even that's for a reason. But I'm just saying like, but I'm saying that, that that whole thing, those things are connected to, you know, putting fat on thing, putting spices on food to enhance flavor, I believe is connected actually more to absorption first. And the flavor is just the byproduct of that. It's a little bit like, why is the sunrise and the sunset beautiful? Well, no, it's actually important for us to look at it and the byproduct is, is beautiful.

• 2:39:08Speaker 03

  So maybe we'll look at it. And so the byproduct of putting spice on food is because you absorb more of it. So that's why we put spice on the food because it tastes better. So it's tasting better. Oh, oh yeah, it tastes better, which is actually making you absorb more of it. So that's the reason to do it. Because just to do it for no reason, that would be stupid. Like, why would you just, why would you, why would you just make it taste better? Like in, Other than, okay, your pleasure of tasting good, but that's something that we're doing now, not, we didn't do that for the last hundred thousand years.

• 2:39:39Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, that's something I've never, I've just never thought about or heard, heard that before.

• 2:39:44Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 2:39:45Shawn Ryan?

  That's.

• 2:39:46Speaker 03

  But that's just putting pieces together. When you look, you just start to put, like, hey, you get put pepper on it, like, when you put, that's why when you put fat, like, when you use coconut, like, certain MCT oils, these fats, these fats help you pull nutrients. You absorb nutrients better with the fats. Like, that's just part of, so, whatever you're putting in there, like, if you're putting the tumor creamer or the cacao or whatever you're putting, you're absorbing that better. You have better absorption.

• 2:40:10Shawn Ryan?

  You'd, you'd mentioned earlier as well.

• 2:40:12Speaker 03

  I mean, they probably get, they're probably gonna, somebody's gonna, sometimes is gonna come, well, that's not true, and this not true, but, you know, at the end of the day, it's like, hey, just think about the math of it.

• 2:40:21Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:21Speaker 03

  Just think about the, the thing about, I like to see it.

• 2:40:24Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, you, you had it, you had, you brought up another interesting point earlier about your brain being made of fat.

• 2:40:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:40:32Shawn Ryan?

  And that's why it craves fat. Do you want to elaborate on that a little bit, or?

• 2:40:36Speaker 03

  Well, first of all, you're, you're, well, the brain craves fat, it's made, it's ninety-six percent dry cholesterol. Your brain is. Like, you're, you're, and the, uh, and so, it's, it eats fat. Like, your muscles are made of protein, they eat, they want protein, your brain's made of fat, it wants fat. Like, that's what it's looking for. So, when people smell fat, like, you smell bacon, or you smell something that's fat cooking on a grill somewhere, or you get that, you just go, what, you know, what, what is that, right? What, you crave, you crave that, I mean, you crave, part of the reason why you crave ice cream is because there's fat, and, I mean, all these things are fat-based, right? A lot of our fat thing is feeding our brain. And so, and I don't know, uh,

• 2:41:22Speaker 03

  I just think anything that would reduce cholesterol in your system, I mean, I think there's a big argument about high cholesterol, low cholesterol, you have multiple kinds of cholesterol, there's some really good data on that, that. None of it's having a effect on your, on your overall heart wellness. I think that that's something, I mean, that's a debate that these guys are having. That they're saying, you know, people are saying, oh yeah, it's not connected that, that high cholesterol is not connected to any kind of heart issues. I think it's also a good fear place because whenever you talk about your heart, you talk about fear. So you get people scared and then you get, when you can get them scared, you can manipulate them.

• 2:42:00Speaker 03

  So I think there's some of that out there as well. But when you're dealing with your, your brain and your, and cholesterol. I mean, I think your brain needs cholesterol. So if you're taking something that's taking your cholesterol down. It might be taking your brain down. Like I don't, I don't have the science. I'll let the scientists do the science work. They can tell me after and then I can just regurgitate it, but it just make, it just in my, in my elementary school math that I went, where I went to school. That makes sense to me. I go, if you're lowering your cholesterol and your brain's made of cholesterol, it seemed like you'd be lowering your brain. Like it just doesn't, I don't know where that doesn't make sense. But again, like I said, I'm not a scientist and I'm not, I just, it's just what makes sense to

• 2:42:42Speaker 03

  me being a practical thinker. Like when I look at things practically, I'm like. When you simplify it. Yeah. You cut out all the BS. Yeah. Just go practice, just go straight, simple. Like I'm not, don't complicate it. Use some logic and common sense. Let me see, reduction in the, this is made out of this and I'm reducing this. Well, and that's this. So it's, it's like, it's not a, it doesn't seem to be, you know, too, I think we make it confusing so we can disguise imperfection. It's like I said before about the frame. When it's perfectly squared, there's nothing to do to it. But when it's a little off, then you gotta glue a bunch of stuff on it. Yeah. What is, what's your favorite product?

• 2:43:26Speaker 03

  I mean, I love the, I love the two. I mean, I love Insta Fuel, but I love like the instant, like Instant Latte. Instant Latte is a crazy good, but, but the Turmeric Creamer, you know, I use the, the, I use the creamers the most. Uh, I, the Greens has been great, but the creamers are my, my, and I use them for, I can use, I can make a golden milk, which is just coconut, uh, coconut powder and Turmeric Creamer together. And that makes it, but the creamers, I think the creamers for me are the, are the, uh, I mean, the coffee, our beans are beyond good. Uh, the Instant for traveling, I have a travel kit that I travel with, that I'm able to use the, the

• 2:44:07Speaker 03

  Instant stuff. I, and so, but, um, yeah, the ca, the coffee, the coffee creamers are, it's hard for me to, and, and then, you know, that, that Instant stuff is good. The matcha, the chai, the, the Instant Coffee, just add hot water. I mean, for me, I just, I, I don't leave home without that. But, but those, those unsweetened creamer, the Turmeric Creamer, and then the, the, you know, the regular sweet and creamy latte, I mean, that's, you know, and then Gabby loves the, the Mocha, you know?

• 2:44:42Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, my favorites are Permanence Mushrooms. I love that stuff.

• 2:44:48Speaker 03

  Well, that's always going on.

• 2:44:49Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. But, um, well, anything new coming? What's next for you?

• 2:44:55Speaker 03

  Well, the ocean, you know, I have the, my season starts right now. So we're, we're, I go back and continue to keep my eye on the horizon. Uh, I have, uh, you know, we're just coming into the season, so we're probably gonna do something. I have a couple of projects around foiling that I'm trying to do, some stuff I was talking about, maybe open ocean stuff, like try to get ourselves out into the, into the big seas and do it and not get lost and not, you know, get recovered and be able to pull that off. But, uh, and then just Survive Parenting, that's, that's, that's my, you know, my greatest challenge ever. So that, that, that's, that's an ongoing, um, ongoing project with, with these, uh, with these amazing girls that are women, girls, women. Yeah. Yeah. That, that's, that's the.

• 2:45:43Speaker 03

  You know, and then just try to keep the air going in and out of the hole.

• 2:45:47Shawn Ryan?

  That's right. Well, Laird, I just want to say it was, um, it was a real honor to interview you. And, and, and like I said, I just want to, I want to thank you for letting me be a part of, of your journey with Laird Superfoods. And I'm, I love it and I'm just, I am happy to be here. And then, and, and to end this, I just want to, I just want to reiterate how much wisdom you just imparted on us. I mean, we talked about breaking generational curses slash trauma. We've talked about, um, coming out of broken homes. We've talked about fatherhood. We've talked about being a good husband.

• 2:46:31Shawn Ryan?

  We've talked about overcoming alcoholism. We've talked about biohacking. I mean, there is a ton of important wisdom and information within this, within this, within this piece of content that we just made in our conversation. So, thank you.

• 2:46:50Speaker 03

  Well, I thank you for the opportunity and, and I'm, I'm, I'm glad that I, that I could be of service and, and, uh, and you're a gentleman and I appreciate your work and, uh, and I'm honored for your, all your work. So, for the nation, for the people and the ongoing work that you're doing, it's, it's a pleasure and I'm glad that, that we were brought together by, by the divine because that's the only way it happens. So, we're connected now and, uh, whether you like it or not, you're going to have to ride a wave or two. It's happening, it's going to happen.

• 2:47:22Shawn Ryan?

  I'd be happy to do it. I'm looking forward to it and, um, yep, I will, uh, let me, let me, let me meet my daughter here soon and, uh, and, and beginning of next year, I'll be seeing you on your turf.

• 2:47:37Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, it's coming. I want to get a piece of you.

• 2:47:40Shawn Ryan?

  I'm looking forward to it.

• 2:47:41Speaker 03

  Me too.

• 2:47:42Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 2:47:42Speaker 03

  Thank you. Allah.

• 2:47:44Shawn Ryan?

  Allah bless.

• 2:47:44Speaker 03

  You're a gentleman. Allah.