Should We Stop Coddling Our 33-Year-Old Son?

On today’s episode, we hear about: · A couple wondering if they should stop bailing out their adult son · A young woman struggling with the aftermath of an abortion · The consequences of cutting family members out of your life Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🔴 Get 15% off with code DELONY at Bon Charge. 🌿 Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 🥤 Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi. 💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne. 🏋️ Go to Trainwell to get started! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  We have heard you tell adult children that their parents don't get a vote when they're making decisions or, you know, life choices.

• 0:15Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 0:16Speaker 00

  It is, it is, because we're the parents, right?

• 0:18Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, yes, okay, let's do this. I've been waiting for this one. Showdown time, let's do it. Woo-ha! What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. So glad that you're with us, talking about your relationships, your mental and emotional health, all of it. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz. Reach out to johndeloney.com/ask, A-S-K. Don't give me a buzz like Kelly likes to have buzzes when she's drinking Mad Dog Fody-Fody in there under the desk, the purple one and the green one. Get it, Kelly? Get it? All right, let's roll into Cincinnati and talk to Gail and Patrick.

• 1:03Dr. John Delony?

  What's up, Gail?

• 1:04Speaker 00

  Hey, hey, how are you?

• 1:06Dr. John Delony?

  Doing fantastic. How we doing?

• 1:08Speaker 00

  Oh, really good, really good. Thank you for taking our call and making time for us.

• 1:13Dr. John Delony?

  Thank you for calling in. Let me bring in Patrick here. What's up, homie? How we doing, Patrick? I'm doing terrific. It's a gorgeous day today. How are you? Outstanding. Same. I'm doing great, man. All right, so what's going on? How can I help?

• 1:27Speaker 00

  Okay, so we have heard you tell adult children that their parents don't get a vote when they're making decisions or, you know, life choices.

• 1:39Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 1:40Speaker 00

  It is, it is, because we're the parents, right?

• 1:42Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, yes, okay, let's do this. I've been waiting for this one. Showdown time, let's do it.

• 1:47Speaker 00

  Well, you know, we'll start by saying we don't disagree, like, we get it, right?

• 1:52Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, man, I hope we're gonna find...

• 1:54Speaker 00

  We set boundaries.

• 1:55Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 1:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, but, but I'm gonna ask you to put a comma at the end of the sentence and not a period.

• 2:00Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 2:01Speaker 00

  Okay?

• 2:02Dr. John Delony?

  Excellent.

• 2:03Speaker 00

  So the comma is, your parents don't get a vote, and our question is, what comes after the comma, right? So we've got a 33-year-old son who's on a dead-end road, and we've bailed him out, we've helped him out, we've done all the things to set him up for success, but he just keeps making really bad choices that he doesn't talk to us about because he's, you know, autonomous, he's doing his own thing. And we're just at the point of asking and really kind of, I guess, clarifying, are we doing the right thing by not bailing him out, by not helping? Like, hey, he made his choices. He didn't ask our input or take our advice.

• 2:43Speaker 00

  And so are we somehow responsible for helping him clean up another mess?

• 2:50Dr. John Delony?

  Give me a scope of the messes. I, I, I have pretty firm thoughts around this, but give me the scope of the mess.

• 2:58Speaker 00

  Um, I mean, he's, he's at this point. So he's, he's clean and sober. So let me just, you know, clear that. He has a past, you know, substance abuse history. Um, he's, he's really marginally employed at best, kind of by choice. And, and he might have some anxiety that has gotten in the way of him being successful and, you know, holding down jobs, but he's gotten fired from two good jobs. Um, he is like a banana peel away from slipping into being homeless.

• 3:30Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 3:30Speaker 00

  Like he is, he is that close. And he's been there before and we've, you know, bailed him out. Of course you, you always have a safe place to land here and blah, blah, blah. And then he just doesn't get his act together.

• 3:43Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 3:44Speaker 00

  Um, we've always focused on his potential. We see the good in him. We see, man, we, we work really hard to show him grace and love and like just all the unconditional things that we want him to experience. But it's just, I, it's, he's just not, you know? He's not adulting really well.

• 4:06Dr. John Delony?

  Dad, how do you feel?

• 4:09Speaker 02

  Uh, I, I agree. Uh, it, it breaks my heart. Um, we've had, you know, both our sons, great kids, great growing up life. And I think the thing that breaks my heart is I've, I always had a safe place to land in my parents' home. My grandparents were the same way. And we raised our boys, you know, uh, home is a safe place. If, if there's something goes down, you can always come home, which our son has done multiple times and that, that's fine, but we, we get him in, get him on his feet and he gets going. And this last time I said, hey, this is it. You know, we can't keep this cycle going. You're gonna have to make it. And he was set up for success, but once again, it failed.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  And I think the thing for me this time was, he covered it up. He lied. He wasn't truthful. He ended up putting us $8,000 in debt because we had to bail him out on something that I'd never swore I would do was sign a loan for my kids, but we did. And he is like, like Yale said, he is basically living on a mattress in somebody's basement. And he asked if he could come home and I said, no. And that hurts so bad.

• 5:28Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about that. You hung up the phone. When you said no, what did he say to you?

• 5:32Speaker 02

  He started to cry.

• 5:34Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  And he, he, you know, he just didn't know, he wasn't used to saying no.

• 5:41Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 5:42Speaker 02

  For us to say no, that he couldn't come home. And it took, we even had to call, you know, trusted family members who said, hey, this is what we're about to do. This is hard. And, you know, they said, yeah, it's hard, but do you feel it's the right thing? And I, I just felt like, yeah, I felt this is it. You, you're gonna have, if it, if everything goes from beneath you and you're out on the street, I, I can say to myself, we've done everything, but man, it hurts.

• 6:12Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  That hurts.

• 6:13Dr. John Delony?

  So, holding that tension is incredibly important.

• 6:18Dr. John Delony?

  Because that's the path forward. Henry Cloud, if you haven't read the book Boundaries, it's one of the first stories in the book. But, and Henry's a great buddy of mine. But the classic line in that opening story is,

• 6:34Dr. John Delony?

  "The greatest gift you could give your son is some problems."

• 6:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:40Dr. John Delony?

  Because there's always been when the bar, when the weight bar got heavy, there's always somebody that ran over there and helped lift it off your chest.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:49Dr. John Delony?

  And I wouldn't wish, when I first got married and I acted the fool with my spending and I was walking around the house at night when my wife was asleep, like, I didn't know how we were gonna pay bills, right? I had a medical emergency, I had to call a buddy and say, "Hey, if I have to go to the ER tonight, can I borrow your credit card?" I had no, I had nothing.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  Right.

• 7:07Dr. John Delony?

  And I wouldn't wish those nights on anybody. I wouldn't wish that stress on a young marriage for anybody. Even if my parents had wanted to, they didn't have it, right? Like, didn't have anything. And so, I'm now 20 years removed from that, and I tell you what, I've got layer upon layer upon layer of protection against ever going back to that thing.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 7:32Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And so, the greatest gift I have now, in my late 40s, is that I experienced the actual, there is no, no one's coming to get you on this one, dude.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:43Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And I'm glad I learned that at 25 and not at 35, because I think the consequences would have been much greater, would have been difficult.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 7:52Dr. John Delony?

  So, take me back to when you hooked him up, you got him set up with a really great job, and he gets fired. What's the very next thing that happened?

• 8:02Speaker 02

  So, he, he, we set up for, it was around Christmas time, and he had been at the job six months plus, and everything going fine, and he had his own, his own condo, his own transportation, and I said, "Hey, come over for Christmas," because it was Christmas time, "we'll do our Christmas dinner, we'll set up, see if you can get off." He goes, "Oh, yeah, yeah, I can get off." He goes, "But my, my vehicle's not working, can you give me a ride?" I was like, "Absolutely." Cause he had trouble with the vehicle back and forth. And so I go to pick him up and there's no answer. His vehicle's not there. I'm thinking, did he go somewhere? So I text him. He's like, oh, oh, I've got to tell you, I moved out. I'm at a buddy's house. So I'm

• 8:45Speaker 02

  like, okay. So I go get him from his buddy's house. And I said, what's going on? He goes, oh, I had to move out because the dog was barking too much and they called the condo association. Well, long story short, it ended up, he had lost his job weeks before. He couldn't pay his rent. He was getting kicked out of his condo. Well, then he owed money and the truck wasn't working. So he, he sold the truck, even though he didn't have the title. He didn't tell us about it. He didn't come to us and ask us for help or assistance. And then he's living in somebody's house and there's no explanation. There's no thank you. There's no nothing. And next thing we know, we got creditors because he hadn't

• 9:30Speaker 02

  been paying the loan, coming after us. And we got, we were getting sued. So we had to pay off the loan. And no thank you, no.

• 9:39Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, I think in all of that, part, part of the frustration was, yeah, he wasn't honest with us. But it's not like he got fired and then started searching for another job. It's not like he was like busting his butt, hey, I'll shovel driveways through the winter time to make 20 bucks to try and cover whatever. He just, he just stuck his head in sand and disappeared until the truth came out. So he doesn't, I don't feel like he takes ownership and responsibility of himself.

• 10:11Dr. John Delony?

  But he never has had to, has he?

• 10:13Speaker 02

  No.

• 10:14Speaker 00

  Um, no. Even when he's not lived with us, he's had other people that have helped.

• 10:20Dr. John Delony?

  But just, just sit in that for a second. Just sit in that for a second. This isn't about judgment or blame. This is just an is.

• 10:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:27Dr. John Delony?

  It's easy to look back and go, oh my gosh, in college, we stepped in and, and then the first job afterwards, we stepped in and, and then this one thing, and then this one thing, and this one thing. And now he's 33 years old.

• 10:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:39Dr. John Delony?

  And so I think.

• 10:43Dr. John Delony?

  There's a tension here.

• 10:46Dr. John Delony?

  And the tension is, um, if I think my kid, I don't care how old they are, if I think my kid is about to cross the line where they're not going to be alive anymore, I'm going to step in.

• 10:57Dr. John Delony?

  And it might be institutionalization, it might be me fighting to take their civil rights away, so they have to go through an inpatient treatment program or something, but I'll step in when I can. But until then, the greatest gift I can give my kid is they've got to understand how the world works.

• 11:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:14Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, can I just say this, that doesn't mean that your kid's never welcome back at home.

• 11:21Dr. John Delony?

  It might be that y'all sit down and come up with a roadmap. You will have a job. You'll have three jobs. You will pay rent.

• 11:29Dr. John Delony?

  You'll have to be home by midnight. You'll have to have drug tests. I mean, y'all get to pick the rules. It's your house.

• 11:34Speaker 00

  Right.

• 11:37Dr. John Delony?

  So when it comes to parents don't get a vote, what I mean by that is, um,

• 11:45Dr. John Delony?

  not they don't get a vote in trying to keep you alive.

• 11:49Dr. John Delony?

  Not that they don't get a vote in, they just have to keep shelling out money and resources and time to your never-ending series of bad decisions.

• 12:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:00Dr. John Delony?

  What I mean they don't get a vote is, when you're married, they don't, they don't get to force you to come to Christmas, to a Christmas that you can't afford to travel or can't get off of work.

• 12:11Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 12:12Dr. John Delony?

  Right. And that, that's not y'all at all.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  Uh-uh.

• 12:16Dr. John Delony?

  So y'all very much get a vote in, or you know what? I've never done this before, but let me flip it. He doesn't get a vote in what y'all do. And actually, I've been hearing this call more and more on the, on the Ramsey Show, the other show that I, I, I host, of kids saying, "Hey, the inheritance went to the wrong person." And it's like, you don't get a vote, man. It's their money. You can be mad. You can be disappointed, but that's their money. Or my dad just bought a new car and he's 75 years old and he didn't need to, dude, you don't get a vote. So he doesn't get a vote into what y'all try to do for your house.

• 12:53Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 12:54Dr. John Delony?

  Where I think you're gonna get yourselves in trouble is if you don't honor this with the weight that it requires and don't grieve. Y'all had a picture of this 33-year-old already with, married to somebody, home with a grandkid. And that picture's not gonna happen.

• 13:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:11Dr. John Delony?

  And your body's gonna continue to try to solve for that picture and solve for that picture. And what that, what that looks like in real life is, every text message your body leaps to, this is the one.

• 13:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:22Dr. John Delony?

  Every email, every email you get, you're like, oh, this is the one. And you open it and it's, hey dad, I need $40. And then there's some wild, a raccoon bit the back of my bike tire and then it crashed into, like some just insane story, right?

• 13:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you've lived our life.

• 13:38Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I mean, I, I, I don't talk about this kind of stuff, but I've got a lot of experience here.

• 13:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:45Dr. John Delony?

  And so, the hard part is, sitting down and you two together, sound like your marriage is good. Is that fair?

• 13:51Speaker 02

  Oh, we're solid.

• 13:53Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Like, amazing, because this, this situation breaks up couples a lot.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:59Speaker 00

  We, yeah, we've definitely had to struggle through that.

• 14:02Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Because one wants to keep funding it, one wants to cut them off, one wants to be ugly to them, one wants to, you know, and that breaks couples up. If you guys are still solid, that's amazing. Um, here might be a really tough, but a powerful bonding experience for both of you, if you wrote a letter to him that you're never gonna send, but you read it to each other, one from dad and one from mom.

• 14:27Speaker 00

  Oof.

• 14:29Dr. John Delony?

  And it would let you hear, because both of you are walking around, can we be honest? Both of you are walking around feeling like you were the one who kind of failed the most.

• 14:38Speaker 00

  Oh, 100%.

• 14:40Dr. John Delony?

  And dad, you're walking around saying, man, if I had just, and mom's like, if I had just, and those unspoken stories that y'all tell each other, you both feel like you're carrying the entire squat bar and you're not. Let's just set the whole bar down.

• 14:57Dr. John Delony?

  And so if we write a letter to him, we read it to each other. There's this story, this isn't gonna happen. It might happen, he may come to your house at forty-three with the new grandkid, maybe. But it's not gonna happen at thirty-three. And we kinda thought it would be by now. Yeah.

• 15:15Dr. John Delony?

  And so if y'all write that letter, read it to each other out loud, and y'all weep together, and you're sad together, then you get to this magic awful place called reality. Here's where we actually are. We have a thirty-three-year-old man that keeps making my wife cry.

• 15:30Dr. John Delony?

  I have a thirty-three-year-old man that makes my husband go into withdrawal so deeply inside of himself, he didn't talk for three days.

• 15:41Dr. John Delony?

  And when you get that level of distance, then you can start making informed decisions, not emotional decisions. Informed decisions like, I can't give you any more money, because I'm funding your drug use, I'm funding your next bad decision, man, and I can't be a part of it. Yeah. That's so hard. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. Yeah. I would not wish that on my worst enemy. And so here's what I would give him.

• 16:10Dr. John Delony?

  I would give him a typed-out piece of paper

• 16:15Dr. John Delony?

  that says, "We love you on it, and here's what we're willing to offer you anytime, day or night.

• 16:25Dr. John Delony?

  You ready to go get counseling? We're in. You wanna go to treatment for marijuana and for anxiety? We're in. We'll fund it.

• 16:34Dr. John Delony?

  You want to... Y'all make up the map, but I think it's worth him... Because he's gonna wake up, and he's gonna be frozen, and I don't want him to have an email or a text message. I want him to have a specific thing that he can fold up and have in his pocket. And email it to him because he'll lose that, but he'll remember it, right? He'll remember it and you say, I'm emailing this to you also.

• 16:57Dr. John Delony?

  But there will come a moment when he's gonna have to make a hard choice. And man, if he knows, alright, I'm gonna go get treatment. Even if he thinks I'm gonna scam my mom and dad out of this, I'll tell them I'm gonna go to treatment. And maybe he gets in there for three days or four days and is able to finally sleep. And is able to, um, I think it's 30 days without marijuana that starts to really transform your head. You start to get your, your mind back.

• 17:20Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm not talking about recreational use, I'm talking about someone who is using it as, as for medicinal purposes, right?

• 17:30Dr. John Delony?

  But that's a lot of jargon I just threw at you. I just wanna be sad as a parent with you guys, I'm sorry.

• 17:37Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 17:38Dr. John Delony?

  This stinks.

• 17:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, we appreciate that, we appreciate it.

• 17:41Dr. John Delony?

  It didn't bring him home.

• 17:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, it's, yeah. No, I appreciate that and that, I mean, it's, that really is where we've landed. And, and still questioning like, are we doing the right thing? You know?

• 17:57Dr. John Delony?

  Just because it hurts doesn't mean it's wrong. And just because it's right, doesn't mean it's without risk.

• 18:07Dr. John Delony?

  And the risks here happen to be catastrophic.

• 18:11Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 18:13Dr. John Delony?

  They're so big.

• 18:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:19Dr. John Delony?

  And it may be that he needs two more weeks of, oh, I've got nothing, nothing.

• 18:26Dr. John Delony?

  I'll come home.

• 18:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:31Dr. John Delony?

  Hope, hope, hoping that helps, man, and maybe just being a listening ear and just saying, yeah, you're right for this to hurt really bad and for the next right move. And I'll tell you, I'll say this one more time before I let you guys go. If I know somebody's suicidal, if I know someone's self harming, if I know somebody's right up there on the precipice, I'm gonna go get you. I'm gonna fight to have your civil rights taken away so I can get you institutionalized, so I can let professionals do their thing.

• 18:57Dr. John Delony?

  But as you mentioned earlier, you've offered counseling, you've offered so many resources and he's never once asked for your help. And I don't know there's anything harder than a family member who.

• 19:09Dr. John Delony?

  Just doesn't care, doesn't want our help.

• 19:13Dr. John Delony?

  Man, that's tough. All right, we come back, I'm gonna talk to a sweet young woman who had an abortion, and she's been struggling every day since.

• 19:24Dr. John Delony?

  This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, listen, therapy is not just for people who are dealing with major traumas. It can be for that big stuff, but it can also be a valuable tool for anyone looking to improve their mental and emotional well-being. I've personally used therapy for working through major trauma, as well as helping me navigate daily relationship and personal challenges. So if you're thinking about trying therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online, so it's affordable and convenient for your schedule. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. They also have over 10 years of experience matching people with just the right therapist for you.

• 20:08Dr. John Delony?

  To get started, you just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. If it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time, easily, and for no extra cost. Listen, talk it out with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H E L P, dot com slash deloney.

• 20:32Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's talk about Helix. Summer is here, the sun's up earlier, the days are longer, and if you've got kids at home, your daily routine is a dumpster fire. And I don't know about you, but this time of year, my sleep schedule can get chaotic. I want to stay outside longer, me and my family are traveling, I want to keep fishing until the last possible second, and on and on and on. But no matter what season we're in, we all need good, deep, refreshing sleep. And that's why I sleep on a Helix mattress. I've slept on all kinds of mattresses, some that were way too soft, and some that felt like concrete, some that actually were concrete. But Helix is the best mattress I've ever slept on. I fall asleep faster, I sleep deeper, and I wake up without that foggy, groggy feeling.

• 21:17Dr. John Delony?

  And here's the coolest part- Whether you sleep on your side, your back, your stomach, or if you run hot like I do, they've got a mattress that works for you. The Helix Sleep Quiz will match you with the perfect mattress for how you sleep and it takes less than two minutes. Plus, right now, my audience gets 20% off the entire Helix Sleep site. Go to helixsleep.com/daloni and get 20% off your entire order. That's Helix Sleep, H-E-L-I-X. Helixsleep.com/daloni. With Helix, better sleep starts right now. Let's go out to Knoxville, K Knoxville, as they say locally, K Knoxville, and talk to Maya. What's up, Maya?

• 21:56Speaker 03

  Hi.

• 21:57Dr. John Delony?

  How's it going?

• 21:58Speaker 03

  It's going pretty good. How are you?

• 22:02Dr. John Delony?

  I'm doing okay. What's going on? How can I help?

• 22:05Speaker 03

  So, um, my story basically is me and my partner, we've been together for about a year and a half, well, over a year and a half, and about eight months ago or so, we had an abortion.

• 22:23Dr. John Delony?

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:24Speaker 03

  So, there's been a lot of feeling, specifically on my end, ever since. And I just want to ask you, um, how I could talk to my boyfriend about it and honestly, if our relationship could even survive something like this.

• 22:43Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me what you're feeling.

• 22:47Speaker 03

  I mean, honestly, just kind of talking about the situation gets me kind of worked up.

• 23:02Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Did you not want to do this? Did you feel pressured to do this? Did you think it was one of those things that felt right at the right ti- at the time and now you've come back to say, "Oh, my God, what did I do?"

• 23:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I never imagined myself ever doing that. But, you know, things happened and...

• 23:23Dr. John Delony?

  Well, let's don't say that.

• 23:23Speaker 03

  I wasn't exactly...

• 23:25Dr. John Delony?

  When you say they happened, what do you mean? What do you mean? You say they happened.

• 23:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, me getting pregnant, like, I never imagined, like, even pictured that ever happening. So it was just a huge shock in general. But in the moment, I obviously didn't want to be pregnant. I still feel pretty young and just not ready. But in general, I...

• 23:52Speaker 03

  In general, I mostly did not want to get the abortion.

• 23:59Dr. John Delony?

  You said it was eight months ago, so, um, something I've heard over and over over the last couple of decades is people getting caught off guard by the encroachment of what would have been a due date.

• 24:17Speaker 03

  Um, I don't even think it's that really. Just...

• 24:23Speaker 03

  It's just something that never leaves my mind, really.

• 24:25Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Now, tell me about...

• 24:28Speaker 03

  It's bothered me a lot.

• 24:29Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I can hear it.

• 24:32Dr. John Delony?

  Who have you told? Who are you able to talk to this? Talk about with this?

• 24:37Speaker 03

  The only person that knew about it is my best friend, but I, I don't really see her much and, you know, she's going through her own thing, so I haven't talked about it with her since it happened, so I haven't really talked to anybody about it.

• 24:56Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 25:00Dr. John Delony?

  So the great David Kessler, who wrote what I think is the most important book on grief ever written, has a line that I remember that I use in my life on a, on a, on a daily, weekly basis. Here's the line. "Grief demands a witness."

• 25:18Dr. John Delony?

  When you're sad about something, when you're heartbroken about something, when you feel like, "I can't believe what I've done, I, I can't believe where I found myself,"

• 25:29Dr. John Delony?

  you simply have to find a person, a group of people that you can sit down with and say, "Hey, this is what happened."

• 25:39Dr. John Delony?

  Holding that in, or in the way I say it, a secret will kill you.

• 25:44Dr. John Delony?

  You don't sleep, you don't eat.

• 25:49Dr. John Delony?

  Like, the luster of life is gone. You don't laugh as deeply as you did. It's just kind of, there's no flavor left, right?

• 25:58Dr. John Delony?

  Here's a big concern for me. Why can't you talk to your boyfriend about this?

• 26:04Dr. John Delony?

  If he's your partner, if he's your guy, why can't you talk to him about this? Did he pressure you into doing this?

• 26:13Speaker 03

  Um, I guess you could say that in a way, but, I mean, I was on board with it. It's not like I ever told him, "No, I'm not doing this." You know what I mean?

• 26:24Dr. John Delony?

  Why didn't you tell him no?

• 26:28Speaker 03

  Well, here's the other thing. I also feel like a great, a lot of anger towards him as well. That's another reason I can't really talk to him about it, because I guess I'm just angry that when I told him about it, he was just instantly like, "Okay, we need to schedule an abortion." You know what I mean? Like, if he was the type of guy who was like, could be happy for the both of us, because obviously that was like a lot for me to take in, but if he could be happy for the both of us, if he could be like, you know, "You're strong, you can do this, we can do this," like, it would've been a whole different story.

• 27:04Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 27:06Speaker 03

  So I'm just...

• 27:10Speaker 03

  I have resentment towards him a lot.

• 27:12Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 27:15Dr. John Delony?

  And if you felt yourself scared and alone, you say you're 23, so you were 22 at the time, is that right?

• 27:23Speaker 03

  Um, no, this was, oh, actually, yeah. I, this actually happened, like, the abortion happened a week before my birthday, so...

• 27:32Dr. John Delony?

  So you find yourself terrified and scared and young and alone and 22. How old's your boyfriend?

• 27:40Speaker 03

  He was 26.

• 27:41Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so the older guy by three or four years says, "Hey, this is what's happening. We're not discussing this. This is happening." And all of a sudden, you're scared and alone and not able to tell anybody, and you find yourself on a river racing out to the ocean, and

• 27:59Dr. John Delony?

  here we are.

• 28:02Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, it's not like I could really go to him and be like, hey, this is your fault because, you know, you hopped on board, you know what I mean? Like, this is my decision too, but...

• 28:14Dr. John Delony?

  It's both and. And I, I think that's fair to, to take ownership. You played a role. And also to understand,

• 28:24Dr. John Delony?

  man, I would have, I wish things would have been different.

• 28:32Dr. John Delony?

  What are you sad, what are you, what are you most sad about?

• 28:40Speaker 03

  I mean, the whole thing was just extremely, extremely traumatizing. Like, not even, not even just the pain of it, but...

• 28:51Speaker 03

  Just, I mean, it feels like a loss.

• 28:54Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 28:59Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 29:02Dr. John Delony?

  Is it okay for me to say it was a loss?

• 29:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:08Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 29:08Speaker 03

  I mean, it was.

• 29:09Dr. John Delony?

  It was. And I think honoring it as such is important for your healing.

• 29:20Dr. John Delony?

  Can I ask you something?

• 29:21Speaker 03

  What do you think I should do?

• 29:22Dr. John Delony?

  Well, I think, I mean, there's a couple of things. One is you have to properly grieve this loss. And if

• 29:31Dr. John Delony?

  over the last year, you've had images pop into your head of you holding a baby, if you've had, if you've started referring to baby by a name,

• 29:44Dr. John Delony?

  then you've got to treat it with that level of seriousness.

• 29:49Speaker 03

  And just kind of ignoring the situation or try to, like...

• 29:53Dr. John Delony?

  You can't. It, it'll, it'll overtake you.

• 29:57Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, you're not crazy. I've heard this over and over and over throughout my life. And it would be a lie if I said, I always have heard this, I haven't. I've talked to people who've made this same decision and they, it was, just moved on with their life.

• 30:12Dr. John Delony?

  But yeah, I've heard it a number of times.

• 30:17Dr. John Delony?

  You have to, and by the way, it doesn't matter what I've heard. I'm sitting here talking to you. You've got to grieve this loss for what it was.

• 30:27Dr. John Delony?

  It's a big loss.

• 30:30Dr. John Delony?

  The second thing is, you're done with this relationship, Maya. You know that, and I know that.

• 30:37Speaker 03

  What does it mean?

• 30:39Dr. John Delony?

  I mean,

• 30:42Dr. John Delony?

  you resent him, you can't talk to him. There's a power differential here. You're in awe, and not in awe like wonder, like of sunset or God, but you're in awe like... You resent being that he's driving this boat and you're stuck in the back of the boat.

• 31:03Dr. John Delony?

  This isn't a partnership.

• 31:09Dr. John Delony?

  The fact that you can't sit down... How long have you all been together, say a year and a half?

• 31:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:14Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. The fact that you can't sit down and say, "I'm really hurting this bad."

• 31:21Dr. John Delony?

  "I'm this angry with you, I'm this frustrated with you, I'm this heartbroken." That you can't have that conversation tells me all I need to know about the state of your relationship.

• 31:31Dr. John Delony?

  That also suggests that you-

• 31:33Speaker 03

  Besides what happened, like we do have a good relationship, like he's good to me, he treats me well.

• 31:38Dr. John Delony?

  I don't think he does. I don't believe you, and here's why. If he did, you could tell him hard things.

• 31:48Speaker 03

  I wonder if that's like just like a me thing, you know, like I wanna run from my emotions, I don't really wanna face them.

• 31:55Dr. John Delony?

  Maybe. Is that true? Or have you found yourself with a guy that is unsafe for you to be completely honest with?

• 32:06Speaker 03

  I'd like to think it's me.

• 32:09Dr. John Delony?

  Have you always blamed yourself?

• 32:18Speaker 03

  Um, pretty much.

• 32:20Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 32:24Dr. John Delony?

  Maybe it is a little bit.

• 32:28Dr. John Delony?

  And maybe this is the guy of your dreams. I don't hear that, but maybe. I don't, I don't know you all that well.

• 32:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:35Dr. John Delony?

  But if he is,

• 32:38Dr. John Delony?

  and this is 100% your fault, which I don't buy for a second, then he has a right to know that you're this upset, that you're hurting this bad. And he may surprise you and say, "My God, me too. What have we done?"

• 32:55Dr. John Delony?

  Or he may say, "I, I would never have done this. I thought this is what you wanted to do."

• 33:03Dr. John Delony?

  And you may have learned a harrowing lesson that I will never have experienced anything again where I'm not hurt.

• 33:12Dr. John Delony?

  Or, "I will always follow my gut from this moment forward."

• 33:18Dr. John Delony?

  And part, that's part of the grieving process is, "Who am I going to become now? How am I going to find meaning in what happened? And how's I going to inform who I become down the road?" And by the way, who I become is a series of, "What are the things I'm going to do?"

• 33:34Dr. John Delony?

  I'm going to go get a counseling degree and sit with hurting people. I'm going to start a Facebook group for people considering terminating pregnancy. I'm going to sit with folks who've just gone through this because I know how hard it is and how scary it is.

• 33:49Dr. John Delony?

  I'm going to, fill in the blank. I'm going to be an architect for crying out loud. I'm going to build stuff. Like, who am I going to be now?

• 34:07Dr. John Delony?

  Can I just say that I'm glad that you're here?

• 34:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:12Dr. John Delony?

  I'm glad that you called.

• 34:15Dr. John Delony?

  And your pain is real and your pain hurts and...

• 34:22Dr. John Delony?

  I wouldn't wish this situation on my worst enemy, but I'm glad that you, I'm honored that you brought it here and let me sit with you for a bit.

• 34:32Dr. John Delony?

  What's your takeaway from this call? What are you gonna go do?

• 34:38Speaker 03

  It was really nice to talk to someone about it. I've been trying to find anybody too, but...

• 34:44Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. I'm gonna hook you up with, I'm gonna hook you up with BetterHelp, okay? For three months for free. So you can talk to a licensed counselor, okay?

• 34:56Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you to put a date on the calendar this week when you sit down with a boyfriend. And it's probably gonna be better for you to write everything out.

• 35:09Dr. John Delony?

  And you can read it to him. But say, "I need you to sit in this with me." And I want you to be really honest. If you haven't talked to him about how you feel about stuff, about your anger and your resentment and your frustration, how you wish things have gone differently.

• 35:24Dr. John Delony?

  And yes, that's you owning your part in this. You had a decision to. But if you, I want you to be honest. If you haven't been fully open with him, because it's not safe to do so physically, emotionally, psychologically. Or he's your first big, serious boyfriend, and you can't imagine your life without him. So you just squash your feelings like you've done your whole life. You owe it to yourself and you owe it to your future self.

• 35:52Dr. John Delony?

  To find somebody that you can sit and practice taking ownership and speaking your mind and your heart out to the world, okay?

• 36:01Dr. John Delony?

  Your voice matters, Maya. Now more than ever.

• 36:05Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 36:06Dr. John Delony?

  And your pains and your hurts and your feelings are worth being heard, okay?

• 36:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:15Dr. John Delony?

  And if nothing else, take from this moment, you will start trusting Maya from this point forward, okay?

• 36:24Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 36:25Dr. John Delony?

  Listen to me. Your grief is right. Your grief is good. And I'll sit here with you and honor it.

• 36:34Dr. John Delony?

  Do you wanna do something pretty wild? You may not be prepared for this, and that's okay. Maybe a few weeks.

• 36:41Dr. John Delony?

  But I think it's worth writing a letter to that kid.

• 36:49Dr. John Delony?

  And I always recommend people write letters to anyone that they feel like they've lost. Parents, siblings, kids.

• 37:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's gonna be hard.

• 37:04Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, it will be. And I don't, don't do that without a professional, okay? I think you should do it with a counselor.

• 37:10Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 37:11Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. It'll be very hard. All this is gonna be hard moving forward. Having a conversation with a boyfriend's gonna be hard. All of it's gonna be hard. But can we be honest, just sitting here for a year, not saying anything to anybody? That's really hard too, isn't it?

• 37:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:25Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 37:29Dr. John Delony?

  Let's find one person, let's find two people, let's find five people where our voice can be heard, okay?

• 37:35Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 37:38Dr. John Delony?

  Deal?

• 37:41Speaker 03

  Deal.

• 37:42Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. This week, we talked to a boyfriend, and we're fully honest and fully open. And hang on the line here, I'm gonna hook you up with my friends from BetterHelp. Thank you so, so much for the call. We come back, um, I'm gonna talk about an epidemic that is just melting families around the country. And it's something that I felt, um, uh, that's important enough for me to just spend some time talking about it. So, come back and,

• 38:13Dr. John Delony?

  bring a notepad with you. We'll be right back.

• 38:17Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's talk about digital privacy and delete me. Does anyone else feel like your digital footprint is starting to feel like a digital trail, leading right back to you? Now scammers are using phishing attacks, that's phishing with a P-H, where they're trying to trick you into giving them something by pretending to know you and be looking out for you. You get an email, a text, or a phone call, and the person or AI bot on the other end sounds like someone who's looking out for you and wants to be your friend? Listen, with the new technological advancements, no one is really safe.

• 38:50Dr. John Delony?

  What is any of us to do? Start controlling what you can. Listen, you can learn about how to be careful online and offline and sign up with Delete Me. I use and recommend Delete Me because they work in the background to reduce my online presence. This way, I don't have to worry about creepy data brokers buying and selling my data to try to trick me to give them more and more of my personal information. Delete Me has reviewed over tens of thousands of sites for me and they've removed my data from hundreds of them, which has saved me countless hours and a ton of stress. Stop the phishing attacks, the harassment, and the other online threats before they start and take control of your digital privacy with Delete Me.

• 39:31Dr. John Delony?

  Go to joindelete.me/deloney today for 20% off the annual plan and that comes out to less than nine bucks a month. That's joindelete.me/deloney.

• 39:44Dr. John Delony?

  Alright, so it was over the Christmas break that Kelly sent me a note, maybe she sent me a text message or something, but let me know that

• 39:53Dr. John Delony?

  1 in 4, 25%, 30% of every incoming email or phone call to the show, which is, the numbers is thousands we get.

• 40:03Dr. John Delony?

  1 out of 4 at the minimum is talking something about, "I cut my parents off, I've cut my kids off, I am no longer talking to my brother and my sister." This, this family's just blowing each other apart. And it's all, the boundaries are super important and I live and die by boundaries, they're critical, but now we've reached a point when it's beyond boundaries, when it's uncomfortable or "I don't like your opinion" or "You got a COVID vaccination, so get out of my family, you can't come to Thanksgiving" or "You didn't get a COVID vaccination."

• 40:43Dr. John Delony?

  And these 5 and 6 and 7-year-old, like, you know, "Back in college, I needed $30 from you and you didn't come through for me, so I hate you." And then we have adults who are just dealing with being 35, dealing with being 40, and being 35 and 40 is just annoying and hard and scary and we thought our life was gonna look different and it doesn't. And then mom calls and she's annoying. Dad calls and he's frustrating, or he's grumpy, or he doesn't, whatever. And it's just, "I cut you off, I'm cutting you off, I'm cutting you off." So Kelly and the team dug into some of these, this research, and I tried to clarify a couple of things. One, what's actually going on across the country with family members cutting each other off?

• 41:26Dr. John Delony?

  And when is it okay to cut somebody off? This is just Delony's opinion, so you can take this as what you want. And what can you do when we're thinking about cutting off family members, drawing boundary lines, saying, "I'm out, I'm out, I'm out." Alright, so, um, here's a couple of data points. 29% of Americans report being estranged from an immediate family member. So it actually fits with our data, about 30%, um, such as a parent, child, sibling, or grandparent. Um, 27% of Americans have, have experienced estrangement from a family member. Um, 56% of Americans have had a falling out with a close family member at some point, and 21% have experienced a rift that never reconciled.

• 42:09Dr. John Delony?

  And, man, this could be, these, these disagreements or these rifts come from lifestyle choices, come from value disagreements, from past abuse and trauma, blatant disregard for boundaries, or being a whiny heiny, being a brat. And adult parents can be brats, kids can be brats, it's somebody's being a brat, right? And so this is a hard conversation to talk about, because I can say, "Don't ever cut off your parents." Well, if dad abused you when you were a kid, it's right. It's right, that you don't want to run your grandkids. And if your dad voted for the wrong person, or watches Fox News or MSNBC all day and

• 42:52Dr. John Delony?

  he's always complaining, is that really a reason to not have a father? Or to your grandkids to not have a grandparent, right? So it's digging into some of these details. So here are some things that I wrote out, just me thinking through this stuff. How do you know when it's time to take a break from a family member or cut ties? Number one, a lack of basic respect or dignity. Not feeling annoyed or inconvenienced or disagreed with. Get over that. That's just called being in a relationship with people. I'm talking about demeaning, ugly, abusive, belittling, trashing you, trashing your spouse, trashing your kids. And by the way, trashing is not, doesn't have to be a spectacle.

• 43:35Dr. John Delony?

  We took a call on a show the other day and the caller said, that his mom said, "There's gonna come a day when your wife comes between me and you." And I was like, "Yes, the day you got married forever." Right? So it doesn't have to be, "I just don't know why. She just doesn't like us." Because you send texts all the time telling her that you don't like the way she does X, Y, or Z, or whatever the thing is. "Well, we don't know why you don't let your, our grandkids come stay with us for three weeks in the summer." Because, anyway. Lack of basic respect or does any trashing yourself worth refusing or withholding love, connection, or support? Right? And again, I want to make this clear. This is different than being annoying.

• 44:20Dr. John Delony?

  My father chews too loud, so I don't want to go home. My mother always just wants to have, you know, Mexican food and I don't like, she doesn't ever take in my gluten-free preference. Just whatever your complaint is. She wishes Billy played baseball and Billy plays soccer. And just stop with that stuff, okay? This is different than annoying or uncomfortable or disagreeable even. Okay? Yeah, I said the other day, my buddy Ian Simkins said, "Unity does not require uniformity." Being on the same team doesn't mean we all have to play the same position. Being on the same team doesn't mean we all agree on what play we should run next. It's just, we're on the same team. We're on the same team. We don't have to all be the same.

• 45:06Dr. John Delony?

  All right, number three.

• 45:08Dr. John Delony?

  Here's how you know when it's time to take a break from your family. Or it's number two, actually. You find your relationship with your family pathologically or negatively impacting your everyday relationships with your spouse, your kids, your work, etc. You find yourself really getting grumpy. You find yourself really withdrawing. You find yourself angry, snapping. You find yourself getting sick. You get worked up. You go silent for a few weeks. You find yourself having another drink and another drink. Or every time that phone call rings, you find yourself, your heart rate speeding up. I don't know about some of you guys, but I know folks who, when their parents call, they just instantly turn nine again. "Hey Daddy, hey Mommy." "Oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't..." Right? Immediately fall into those patterns.

• 45:51Dr. John Delony?

  Number three, your family is continuing to try and control your decisions, your choices, or your plans as though you were still living under their roof. Now, here's where it gets dicey. If you're still on their cellphone plan, they get a vote. If they're paying for your college, they get a vote. If they're paying for your car, they get a vote.

• 46:10Dr. John Delony?

  If you're married and you have two kids and you live an hour away, they don't get a vote.

• 46:16Dr. John Delony?

  Number five, this idea, or I'm sorry, four, this idea, you can cut them off when you live under this idea of "you owe me."

• 46:25Dr. John Delony?

  "You owe me money." "I need $50." "I need $10,000." "I need access to your home." "Those are my grandkids." "You will..." Like, "You owe me access to those kids." "I need to borrow your car." It's this sense of, "What is yours is mine because you owe me." There's a joke in my house. My mom is awesome. She's always like, "I carried you for nine months." And we still bring that up to this day. Like, "Hey, you guys want to go eat? Because I carried you." That's a funny joke in our house, but there's a patho... Like, when that becomes pathological, right? Next, blame, manipulation, gaslighting, or dishonesty, or a lack of safety.

• 47:09Dr. John Delony?

  If you have a parent with untreated major depressive disorder...

• 47:14Dr. John Delony?

  That makes it unsafe for you to be around. Well, if you can't make it here, I'm just gonna kill myself.

• 47:21Dr. John Delony?

  Well, if you come over, then I just gonna have to... Hey, Mom or Dad, you can't scream obscenities at the grandkids. Well, you know that, right? It's unsafe or manipulation. I wouldn't have to if you would just call me more. Um, or blame. This wouldn't have happened if you had gone to that other school or married that other woman. Um, or I just, I just don't know why you don't want me around. Um, or you can't bring your dog to my house. Well, because it pees everywhere. Well, I just think that if you, right? This, that is a reason to say, hey, I gotta draw some boundaries. And until you're ready to talk like an adult, we're gonna have to not be in communication. And the last one, and this is a big one. If there's been past abuse, there has to be a reckoning.

• 48:06Dr. John Delony?

  Ownership, apologies, reconciliations, not just, we don't talk about it. And there can be abuse, abuse can be psychological, emotional. It can be sexual, it can be physical. There has to be a reckoning. I hurt you. And who I was and what I did was wrong. And there's been some sort of retribution. I have put skin back in the game.

• 48:32Dr. John Delony?

  And there is actions to back up my words. I am not who I once was.

• 48:37Dr. John Delony?

  I've talked to parents who mercilessly spanked their kids growing up to the, far past the point when it was keeping them in line. It was physical abuse. And I've seen some that still laugh about it. And I've seen some sob and say, I'm so sorry that I conflated loving you with physical harm. And so, anyway, there's gotta be some sort of reckoning ownership. So, that's a lot, and it's gonna be on a spectrum. Here's some things you can do in your house to begin to establish your own autonomy. Like we said earlier, stop giving family members votes in your life. You can love them, but that doesn't mean they get a vote into where you go on vacation,

• 49:18Dr. John Delony?

  what you do for the holidays, what schools your kids go to, um, what shoes you buy your kid. You have to be an adult, you and your partner, if you have kids, if you're married, you've gotta be an adult. You as a kid? If you are asking your dad, "Which engineering job should I take? This one or this one?" And your dad is a fisherman. He may not have the right answer for you. You may need to find some other engineers that might ask you. And when he says, "I wouldn't work there, because I..." That's cool, man. I'm gonna be an engineer and I really wanna work in this city and this town. And I think it's gonna be a great opportunity for me. And I've done my research and I've sat with, met with folks and gotten in proximity to people who do this job. He didn't get a vote. Often when our parents say, "I wouldn't do that."

• 50:02Dr. John Delony?

  Really what they're saying is, "I don't know how to say this, but I love you. I don't want you to move away. I wanted you just to hang out here forever, because we like you. We love you a lot." Right? So you stop giving them a vote. Here's the second thing I want you to stop trying to do. Stop trying to make your other family members okay with their life decisions. It's not your job. Can't. It's not your job to, when your mom calls and says, "I don't know why I stayed with your dad 20 years ago." I can't, I can't make that okay for you. You need to find some friends and you need to find some relationships, because that's my dad, too. Number three, this is a continuation there. Commit to staying out of triangles. "Well, you know, your mother..." I'm gonna stop you right there. I'm gonna stop right there.

• 50:47Dr. John Delony?

  That's my mom. And if you have problems with my mom, you need to talk to a therapist and you need to talk to some of your friends. Um, I'm not the guy. That's my mom, dude. "Well, you know, your sister has been..." No, no, no, no, no, that's my sister. I don't wanna, I know when you talk about it, it makes me feel good about myself, but I don't wanna get into that. Stay out of triangles. Next one, don't own the blame or the guilt or the hate. Is that easy? No. Are you gonna sob? Yes. Is it heartbreaking? Yes. When your parents blame you for their situation. And I'm gonna hop out of it. And then have clear boundaries. Very clear boundaries. Um, I've talked about on this show that we, my family, Sheila and I, my wife and I, send an email in September-ish, sometimes October, sometimes August.

• 51:30Dr. John Delony?

  But we send an email, here's what the fall's gonna look like for our immediate family. Travel, me on the road, what's going on in our life. And we send that out. Some years, that email's been very well received. Some years, it has not. It's not gone well at all. Who do you think you are? Is that hard? Yeah. Does it break my heart? Yep. Does it happen? Yep. Can I control any of that? Nope. All I can control is my boundaries. And I probably need to do a better job on this show. I talk about like, yeah, just say it. Just go out and say it. Doesn't always go well. Sometimes it goes really tough. And it's not great. I don't love it. I hate it. But it is what it is. And it's not my job to make sure everyone in my extended family likes me.

• 52:13Dr. John Delony?

  Or, or is all comfortable with where we're eating one night, or where we're opening presents one, or where we're eating what meal. It's my job to make sure my kids are safe, make sure my wife feels love and supported, and that we have decided on what we are gonna do for our marriage moving forward. And does that mean sitting at dinners that we don't want to be at? Of course it does. Does that mean laughing at jokes that are only moderately funny and we've heard them a thousand times? Yes. Does that mean listening to political opinions that we disagree with, but we're just rolling our eyes? Yes. Does that mean stopping a family member from saying, "Hey, hey, don't say that in front of my children?" Yes. Making things awkward? Yes. Is that saying, "Hey, Josephine is not gonna, doesn't want a hug right now?" So with a weird uncle? Yes. All that is true. All that's true.

• 52:58Dr. John Delony?

  But it's my job to have boundaries. And I love what Becky Kennedy says, "Boundaries require nothing of another person. They're what I'm going to do."

• 53:07Dr. John Delony?

  And the last one is this, if you desire reconciliation, and the data says that most people and family members, they, most family members end up reconciling.

• 53:18Dr. John Delony?

  If you want to reconcile,

• 53:21Dr. John Delony?

  go first.

• 53:24Dr. John Delony?

  Only speak if the person can hear you.

• 53:28Dr. John Delony?

  Start with the words, "I... I miss you. I'm sorry. I want us to build a new relationship together."

• 53:39Dr. John Delony?

  Go first. The amount of family members I've talked to over the years who haven't talked to each other for five or 10 years because they made up stories, "Well, they don't want to talk to me. They don't want to hear from me. I know what I did, and they don't ever want..." And you end up losing a decade of a relationship.

• 53:54Dr. John Delony?

  I guess the last thing I'll say is feeling awkward or uncomfortable is a sign to work through relationship challenges, not the other way around, not a time to call them. And the world needs more families to come together.

• 54:09Dr. John Delony?

  I don't care what, I don't care about,

• 54:12Dr. John Delony?

  I don't know, just the world needs more people to come together.

• 54:16Dr. John Delony?

  So that's my thoughts on families just breaking up everywhere all the time. Be very slow to pull the ripcord on, you're out. I'm not, I'm not continuing in this relationship with you, mom, or with dad, or with brother, with sister. Feel free to take a year off. Hey, we're not traveling this year. We'll send Christmas cards, we'll FaceTime. Feel free to,

• 54:38Dr. John Delony?

  you know, not do birthday times, or, you know, go from the weekly family dinner that we always have, we've always had, and we're gonna go to monthly, we're gonna go to once every six months.

• 54:50Dr. John Delony?

  But if you gotta pull the cord, make sure you give somebody a roadmap back, or be very clear about why you're pulling the cord.

• 54:57Dr. John Delony?

  And have a hard conversation about reconciliation.

• 55:02Dr. John Delony?

  We'll be right back.

• 55:05Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, it's Deloney for Organifi. I talk to people every day who feel overwhelmed, and I don't just mean emotionally. They're physically and mentally spent, they're worn out, they're anxious, they're not sleeping well, they feel that foggy, disconnected sense all the time. And most of them are just trying to push through with coffee, and more caffeine, and willpower. Can we all just agree? What we're doing probably isn't working. Redlining our bodies every minute of every day is just burning everyone to the ground. That's where Organifi comes in. Organifi makes organic superfood blends and gummies, which I love, that are designed to support your body, your mind, even your emotions, so you don't just set everything on fire.

• 55:49Dr. John Delony?

  You just mix Organifi's superfood blends with water, and you're good to go. For me, it's green juice in the morning for focus, red juice in the morning and the afternoon for clean energy without the crash, and I love my happy drops to boost my mood, and the Sheila Jit gummies that help me feel like a laser beam. Look, most people don't have to overhaul their entire life to start feeling better. You just have to listen to your body and start making some small daily choices. And you can start with my friends at Organifi. Go to Organifi.com/Deloney and use code DELONY to save 20% off. That's 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi, O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com/Deloney. All right, Kelly, am I the problem? Let it rip.

• 56:35Speaker 04

  All right, so this is from Nick in Indianapolis, and he writes, "Am I the problem? My wife and I seem to disagree sometimes when it comes to the subject of laundry. I am very much type A and like to do my laundry every weekend, and as soon as it's done, I put it away." I feel this guy.

• 56:55Dr. John Delony?

  He already gives me the hemorrhoids. Dude, laundry is not laundry if it doesn't sit in a basket for a few weeks.

• 57:01Speaker 04

  No, no, then it gets wrinkled. Anyway.

• 57:03Dr. John Delony?

  Then you get to rewash it. Hello, this is America.

• 57:05Speaker 04

  Anyway, my wife, on the other hand, is a little more relaxed. She does the laundry every once in a while and prefers to leave the clothes scattered in her closet, out on our floor and in other random places. I've tried talking to her about putting in a system. Love that. And I will do her laundry every other weekend if she will put her clothes in a laundry basket, but it went nowhere. I understand that I am very type A, but am I the problem for wanting a clean bedroom slash house?

• 57:40Dr. John Delony?

  This is unfair.

• 57:42Speaker 04

  This is what we've talked about where God says, "I'm gonna put these two people together."

• 57:46Dr. John Delony?

  No, it's where they find each other.

• 57:48Speaker 04

  Because this is exactly what happens in our house.

• 57:50Dr. John Delony?

  "Oh, I want to solve this problem that I couldn't solve when I was a child. I'll pick you, and I'm gonna marry the exact problem I had because I'll solve it now. And then I'm gonna ride into a strange podcast and be like, 'Help.'" Here's the thing. Is it wrong for you to be type A? Of course not. Is it wrong for you to want a clean house? Of course not. Is it wrong for you to assume superiority over somebody who just knows where their piles of socks is?

• 58:14Speaker 04

  Of course not.

• 58:15Dr. John Delony?

  No.

• 1:00:23Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, that happened in my house. When my wife sat down and said, I don't feel like I'm my best version. Because John, you're a lot. And two things have happened since then. One is I've dramatically shifted. Like, I'm a shockingly neat person at the house. And when I start, when I start leaving piles everywhere and shoes everywhere, she knows he's headed, he's not gonna, he's, he's heading down a path where he's not okay. And that's a great time for her to be like, hey, let's go to dinner tonight. Kids, y'all are on your own. And we go to dinner and she's like, I'm starting to worry about you. And so it's a good signal for us. But that started with her not saying, you need to, started with, I really want to be my best self and it's hard for me when your stuff's everywhere. And I was like, all right, and that's fair.

• 1:01:07Speaker 04

  We had a very similar conversation where I had to say it causes massive anxiety for me when there's clutter everywhere. But I also don't expect Robert to be as type A as I am either. So it's just like, can you just put them all in that basket?

• 1:01:23Dr. John Delony?

  You're type three As.

• 1:01:26Speaker 04

  Type triple A? What is, no, I'm.

• 1:01:29Dr. John Delony?

  Quadruple A.

• 1:01:30Speaker 04

  No, but he'll, you know, it's like, I don't care if you wash the clothes.

• 1:01:33Dr. John Delony?

  We've recorded shows for, through 2027.

• 1:01:36Speaker 04

  False, false, false.

• 1:01:40Dr. John Delony?

  True.

• 1:01:41Speaker 04

  False.

• 1:01:42Dr. John Delony?

  You have a spreadsheet of all the shirts I wear in the right order.

• 1:01:46Speaker 04

  They're all black.

• 1:01:46Dr. John Delony?

  So they match your tattoos. True, true.

• 1:01:50Speaker 04

  There we go. One of us lies a lot. One of us doesn't.

• 1:01:54Dr. John Delony?

  And one of us has curly hair and one of us doesn't.

• 1:01:56Speaker 04

  Well, exactly. You're right. And I'll let America decide who's who on that. No, but yeah, I mean, I, you know, we both had to come to an agreement that, hey, I don't care if you put your clothes away or not, but if I just put this basket here, will you just toss them in there instead? And then if you want to live out of the basket, have at it. And I'll put mine away. But can you just not have them on the floor? And it's a middle of instead of me going, no, they all have to be neatly hung and put here. And him saying, hey, I'll put them in, I'll just make sure they land here instead.

• 1:02:28Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 1:02:29Speaker 04

  So compromise, people. Compromise.

• 1:02:33Dr. John Delony?

  I'll leave it at that. I compromised the ending of this show.

• 1:02:36Speaker 04

  I compromised my career.

• 1:02:38Dr. John Delony?

  You did.

• 1:02:41Dr. John Delony?

  I compromised just the general sense of joy I had in the world. And I started working with a producer who's so, so heartless and mean. Peace.