Pain is Available at 6

This week on The Vergecast, Nilay Patel and Dieter Bohn are joined by Jake Kastrenakes and Racked style editor Nicola Fumo to talk about T-Pain, T-Pain's house, and Apple's new set of music making apps. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Nilay Patel?

  Hello. What a surprise. We're all back again. Welcome to The Vergecast. Someone got an email.

• 0:13Speaker 01

  Things are off to a great start.

• 0:14Nilay Patel?

  Things are, as always, off to a rollicking, exciting start. But this is The Vergecast, the flagship podcast of theverge.com. That's what I started calling it. We have so many now.

• 0:23Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 0:23Nilay Patel?

  Dieter's our admiral, because he's wearing a fucking eye patch for some reason.

• 0:28Speaker 02

  Doesn't fit.

• 0:29Nilay Patel?

  But anyway, this is The Vergecast, where we talk about technology, culture. There's gonna be a lot of T-Pain conversation from Jake today. Jake's just knocking into things.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Well, I am already getting rambunctious, just thinking about the time I have with T-Pain.

• 0:42Nilay Patel?

  Anyway, I'm Neil Ipatel. I'm the guy on The Vergecast. I'm sitting with Dieter Boen.

• 0:48Speaker 02

  Also a guy.

• 0:50Nilay Patel?

  Jake is here. Jake Hasnack is here. Fumo.

• 0:54Speaker 03

  Hi.

• 0:54Nilay Patel?

  What's up, girl?

• 0:56Speaker 03

  Doing great. Having a banner week.

• 0:57Nilay Patel?

  Yeah?

• 0:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 0:58Nilay Patel?

  Why is it banner week?

• 0:59Speaker 03

  I don't know. I'm just in a good mood.

• 1:00Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 1:01Speaker 03

  We had an extra day off. We did. Raph did.

• 1:03Nilay Patel?

  Oh, yeah. No, The Verge sort of did. Kind of. I don't know. Look, gadget news doesn't sleep, baby.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  That's one thing I've learned. That's the only one thing I've learned here.

• 1:16Nilay Patel?

  There's always new gadget news?

• 1:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, there is. Fundamentally, that's what we do. Anyhow.

• 1:21Speaker 03

  Dieter.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  This eye patch is baller.

• 1:25Nilay Patel?

  It actually is not. It's like suede.

• 1:28Speaker 03

  No, it's leather, but it's like a nice leather.

• 1:30Speaker 02

  Because it was meant for the right eye. But I have a contact that's the wrong contact in my right eye.

• 1:36Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  Which, so I have a prescription on different prescriptions for both eyes. I put the wrong one in my right eye, so it's not strong enough.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  You put the left in the right?

• 1:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Is it weaker or stronger?

• 1:48Speaker 02

  It's weaker.

• 1:49Nilay Patel?

  Ooh, that's weird. That's bad.

• 1:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51Nilay Patel?

  Stronger, it's like, for the first 10 minutes.

• 1:53Speaker 02

  You're like, "I am invincible."

• 1:55Nilay Patel?

  I can fucking see everything. And then you get a terrible headache. But that 10 minutes.

• 2:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00Nilay Patel?

  It's pure power. And then your body's like, "You know what? I don't think you should have this much power. I think that you should have a crippling headache instead."

• 2:06Speaker 02

  I think I'm not gonna keep this eye patch on.

• 2:10Nilay Patel?

  I mean, do you, man? It's first of all, it's a radio show, so no one will know.

• 2:15Nilay Patel?

  Second of all, just be, feel powerful in whatever way you need to. Anyway, a lot of stuff happened this week.

• 2:22Nilay Patel?

  But we have to just start with Jake's adventure. So let me, let me, can I set the, who's beeping? Is that you?

• 2:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm turning it off.

• 2:29Nilay Patel?

  Okay. Um, I'll turn mine off too. Um, so let me set the stage. So we get a call. What's the date of the email? Is it Saturday?

• 2:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:37Nilay Patel?

  Saturday.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  So you know, I'm, oh, well, it started, I think your first email to me was Friday night.

• 2:43Nilay Patel?

  Friday night, like late Friday night. So we're back from CES.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:47Nilay Patel?

  Everyone's very tired. Literally people from The Verge are going to hospital after CES. Right. I had been out of town. I wasn't on the show last week, as you may have noticed. I had been out of town. I come back and like, weekend's here. We're gonna let the team rest, relax, recover. We're not gonna check or, and I get a call. And basically the call is like, do you want to go meet T-Pain? To which I believe as anybody would reply, I said, yes.

• 3:15Speaker 03

  I can't believe you didn't send me.

• 3:17Nilay Patel?

  I mean, it was, I should have sent you.

• 3:20Speaker 03

  You should have sent me. Not that Jake didn't do a fabulous job, but come on.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  Commending me.

• 3:26Speaker 03

  The intersection of T-Pain and Nicola, The Verge.

• 3:31Nilay Patel?

  That's, that's where we live. I'm sure, I'm sure there's, we'll have additional.

• 3:35Speaker 02

  You have, you have to.

• 3:36Nilay Patel?

  T-Pain loves The Verge.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  Project Overlord? Project, what's it called?

• 3:39Speaker 03

  Operation Figurehead. God damn it.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  You have to pace it. You can't just jump right into the end, the end goal of it.

• 3:46Speaker 03

  Piece by piece. I know. No. And it's like, when you're like, okay, Nicola, I need you and Kanye to take the Virgin Galactic flight. That's when it'll be done. That's when we'll be done.

• 3:56Nilay Patel?

  And no other staffers of The Verge will murder you for that opportunity. Anyhow, um, so, you know, I was like, yes, I, we, yes, we will hang out with T-Pain. Why? Which I realize now is like the follow-up question that I should have asked first. Like, why would you like to meet? Anyway, uh, turns out there's a new version of GarageBand. T-Pain, avowed GarageBand user.

• 4:17Nilay Patel?

  Wrote and produced "I'm in Love with a Stripper" on GarageBand. It's a true fact.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think like most, if not all, of his first album, apparently assembled with GarageBand.

• 4:28Nilay Patel?

  Crazy, crazy information. So, yes, we're gonna go to T-Pain. Okay, you got it. GarageBand's coming on Wednesday. You're gonna be at T-Pain on Monday. So like, a thousand emails are sent in the space of, I don't know, two hours? Who's going? Is anybody alive? Like, is the Verge video team alive? Was a reasonable question last Friday.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:48Nilay Patel?

  Everyone's, people are excited. We send Jake down. Jake, this is where I'm gonna kick it to you. Jake walks into T-Pain's house

• 4:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, well-

• 4:54Nilay Patel?

  To demo the new GarageBand.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  We don't even realize this is T-Pain's house. We, me and two of our video team members, we get down to Atlanta. We're on no sleep. We're in an IHOP. And we're like, we, we don't know where we're going. We just know that we have a meeting with T-Pain.

• 5:10Nilay Patel?

  We were just like, get to Atlanta and we'll figure it out.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, finally, we get the location, and we look it up on Google Maps. I'm like, this is residential. And, yeah, turns out to be T-Pain's mansion.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  So we drive up in our like busted rental car, and-

• 5:29Speaker 03

  What time of day is it?

• 5:30Speaker 01

  It is like 5:30 at this point.

• 5:33Speaker 03

  PM?

• 5:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:34Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  And then, what I believe is a Rolls Royce pulls up while we're waiting outside his gate. And we're like, well, that must be T-Pain.

• 5:46Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, so he's like-

• 5:49Nilay Patel?

  That's what I say every time I see a Rolls Royce.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, obviously. So he's like, oh, hey, just, just headed in. I'm gonna buzz you through the gate. I gotta run some errands. I'll be right back. We're like, okay, cool. So, yeah, we just make our way into T-Pain's house.

• 6:01Nilay Patel?

  Did you make your, yourself at home?

• 6:02Speaker 03

  Did someone let you in? Was there a staff?

• 6:03Speaker 01

  There was someone there. So that's, that's the thing. There, there is like, I'm very confused by the setup of T-Pain's house. Cause there appear to be many people like living slash working there.

• 6:13Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, it's everything that you dreamed, isn't it?

• 6:15Speaker 03

  I'm like, I'm shaking.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  So I, I believe it was his brother-in-law who led us into the house, but-

• 6:21Speaker 03

  Keep it in the family, okay.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Who, who, who may also live there. He was also psyched. He's a huge Verge fan.

• 6:27Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. T-Pain's a Verge nerd. It's the best, best information I've ever gotten.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  Is he a listener of the Vergecast?

• 6:33Nilay Patel?

  I don't know. We don't have, we don't make it in GarageBand, so.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:37Nilay Patel?

  Hey, T-Pain.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:38Nilay Patel?

  Oh, everyone calls him Pain.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 6:40Nilay Patel?

  I got, I got to a point on the email chains on Friday and Saturday where the, his public assistant manager were just like, Pain will be available at 6pm. And I was like, that sentence can be read in many ways. But I'm, I'm, I'm gonna read it in the way that suggests that we're all friends with T-Pain. And we're just calling him Pain.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  I don't think T-Pain would not be friends with somebody. He is exceptionally friendly hu- human.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Very, very talkative.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Bounces around for so many subjects. Great.

• 7:10Speaker 03

  Wait, wait, wait. Okay, so you get there, the brother-in-law lets you in. Now what?

• 7:13Speaker 01

  So, uh, he kinda brings us into, um, the lower level, the basement. And, you know.

• 7:20Nilay Patel?

  But let me just, here's, here was the, let me just interrupt for one second. The goal was, we're gonna interview T-Pain about apps and music. And then we're gonna go in the studio and T-Pain's gonna like, make a track for us using the new GarageBand. He's gonna like, T-Pain's gonna do the hands-on.

• 7:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:32Nilay Patel?

  So that's, that's where we're, that, that was the idea.

• 7:34Speaker 03

  So for everyone who's gonna complain, like, all they do is talk about nothing like that. Okay, that's the point.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, that was.

• 7:39Nilay Patel?

  No, in about, in about two minutes, we're gonna make Nikola use GarageBand, too.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:42Nilay Patel?

  It's gonna be great. And then you will have joined the elite company of T-Pain on a voyage.

• 7:45Speaker 03

  Hot tracks coming.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  We're basically just like, scoping out T-Pain's house for cool stuff to like, do a video shoot. And so like, we check out his studio, his studio engineer is just like, working in there. It looks extremely expensive. We leave, we go to like, we check out, T-Pain has like, an arcade.

• 8:03Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Where he has like, you know, sit-down racing machines, uh, might have been some pinball? I don't remember. Yeah, there's like, a hallway filled with blown-up, um, magazine covers that have his face on it. There's like, he, his dog is just like, chilling out somewhere.

• 8:19Nilay Patel?

  What kind of dog? What kind of dog? Big dog, little dog?

• 8:21Speaker 01

  It was, I, I wanna say it was just like, it maybe was a pug or something?

• 8:26Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, little lion.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was not, not the friendliest of dogs, but also there was, you know, there are a lot of us, maybe, maybe we excited. Yeah, so then we go into T-Pain's, uh, like, bar slash party area. Where there are multiple stripper poles?

• 8:43Speaker 03

  I actually am having a hard time inhaling. I'm like, I swear to God.

• 8:52Speaker 02

  Multiple stripper balls?

• 8:54Nilay Patel?

  Well, if you have a party.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:56Nilay Patel?

  One stripper is not a party. I think we can all agree. One stripper is just like.

• 9:01Speaker 03

  That's some budget shit.

• 9:02Nilay Patel?

  That's just a sad Tuesday.

• 9:03Speaker 03

  Sad Tuesday.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  You have very different Tuesdays than I do.

• 9:07Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, they're not sad.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you know, it's it's space is set up for for a nice evening. He has karaoke.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  There was a pool table.

• 9:19Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Many, many hookah. What is it? What is the thing called?

• 9:25Nilay Patel?

  Hookah.

• 9:25Speaker 03

  Hookahs?

• 9:26Speaker 01

  Is it just hookah? There's no, it's not hookah like.

• 9:29Speaker 03

  Pot.

• 9:29Nilay Patel?

  Hookah, hookah apparatus.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  Several hookahs.

• 9:32Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  Okay, well.

• 9:34Nilay Patel?

  Someone's gonna correct me any second, but don't worry.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay, yeah. So we're setting up, we're setting up. Finally, T-Pain comes down, introduces himself. And he's like, cool, I'll be right back. So like, we finished setting up, we kind of just waited around a little bit. T-Pain comes back, he's like, oh, I was just playing video games. We're like, okay.

• 9:52Speaker 02

  Did he tell you which one?

• 9:53Nilay Patel?

  He just took a game break?

• 9:55Speaker 01

  I, he said, I think he said he was trying out something called League. I wasn't sure what that.

• 10:01Nilay Patel?

  League of Legends?

• 10:01Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 10:02Nilay Patel?

  Wait, T-Pain's like a law addict?

• 10:05Speaker 01

  Is it? Yeah, is League of Legends the the big one?

• 10:07Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, he said he was trying it out. He wasn't sure how he felt about it, though.

• 10:11Nilay Patel?

  I think the way he felt about it was that when any had any scrap of time, he needed to grind out some.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  Okay, well, that's what he'd been doing. And he said like.

• 10:19Nilay Patel?

  That's a phrase, by the way.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  He was definitely like.

• 10:21Nilay Patel?

  Grind out some.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Doing some PC gaming.

• 10:22Speaker 03

  I accept it.

• 10:23Nilay Patel?

  Do you know League of Legends is so big, they sell out stadiums so people can watch other people play it. It's one of those games.

• 10:27Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 10:28Nilay Patel?

  Like, people are deeply addicted to it. Anyway.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, so then we we sat down, chatted for a while.

• 10:36Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, just hung out.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. I mean, but that's what it's like.

• 10:38Speaker 03

  Did he offer you like any beverages?

• 10:39Speaker 01

  He did, actually, yeah. So we sat down. And first thing, he offers us a beer. I think the video team did want to have beers with T-Pain. I was a little nervous about interviewing him while drinking a beer, so I did not accept the beer. No one else accepted the beer.

• 10:57Speaker 03

  What kind of beer?

• 10:58Speaker 01

  This is the weird thing. Very well-stocked fridge of alcohol, very fine liquors beside it. T-Pain pulls out a Bud Light.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  Which, you know, I guess he's just hanging out with us in his basement.

• 11:10Nilay Patel?

  He's not gonna get donked. He's gotta go back to his game.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, anyway, T-Pain starts drinking a Bud Light, starts messing around with the chair situation. He had these chairs that they were extremely squeaky. He was unhappy about that. And, uh, yeah, then we started talking for a while and we started out talking about GarageBand, which is cool, because he is like, I do think he's legitimately very psyched about GarageBand in general.

• 11:36Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Um, but some of the most interesting stuff we talked about was just like the music industry and how you get music out there in 2016.

• 11:44Nilay Patel?

  I liked his line where he's like, "When leaks happen, they happen to everyone. I just pretend that they were on purpose." That's pretty good.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  No, he's like, "Yeah, so much stuff that, eh, you know, I feel like so many musicians would not be forthcoming about." He was just happily like, um, I think it's very interesting that he's like, "You know, I'm not going to make money on streaming services." It doesn't matter, because that's going to help me sell out shows and like sell merchandise.

• 12:10Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  Like, that is where my money comes from. The studio makes, or the label makes their money from Spotify. Like, they can complain.

• 12:18Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  But it's, you know, I, I'm, there's no circumstance under which I'm going to make money from seeing music, so I'm not gonna worry about it.

• 12:24Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  Um, so yeah, it was, it was very interesting.

• 12:27Nilay Patel?

  He's also like a deep nerd.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  He's a huge nerd. Yeah. He said that he had been building computers for people back in Tallahassee. And apparently one person couldn't pay him, gave him a CD of, uh, audio plugins.

• 12:41Nilay Patel?

  Cracked, stolen, pirated audio plugins.

• 12:43Speaker 01

  And that-

• 12:44Nilay Patel?

  As payment for a home-built PC. So like, T-Pain's like screwing together PC towers.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  He still builds his own, own computers, by the way.

• 12:51Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  Um, yes, and on that CD that he received in payment for building a computer was autotune.

• 12:58Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  Um-

• 12:59Nilay Patel?

  And he was like, "That's my sound."

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, and somehow, I mean, that fortuitous, um-

• 13:04Nilay Patel?

  Pain.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 13:07Nilay Patel?

  God, I wish you had a soundboard here so I could make the shorty sound.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  We need to, why, does anybody have the IMTPin app downloaded?

• 13:14Nilay Patel?

  Probably. Duh.

• 13:17Nilay Patel?

  All right, so let's talk about the news. So you didn't go down just to roll with Payne.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, um, you know, after we chatting for a while.

• 13:22Nilay Patel?

  Really? Maybe, maybe.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, mostly, but, um, we did have to get some work done.

• 13:27Nilay Patel?

  IMT Payne, not updated for the iPhone 6.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Hmm, I should have grilled him on that.

• 13:32Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, what's going on here? He insists that he records his vocals through IMT Payne.

• 13:37Speaker 01

  That is what he said, yeah.

• 13:38Speaker 03

  What kind of phone did he have?

• 13:41Speaker 01

  He had, he had a 6S, he had rose gold.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  He also had an Apple Watch. He does not love the battery life on it.

• 13:48Speaker 03

  Okay, I noticed in the video, did he have like, what is the bedazzlement he had on his Apple Watch?

• 13:53Speaker 01

  I don't want to assume, but some-

• 13:57Speaker 03

  I think it was custom.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  It was, oh, it was definitely, like, I mean, I think it was probably like-

• 14:02Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Uh, circled with diamonds.

• 14:04Speaker 03

  Who, what jewelers are doing custom, I-

• 14:07Speaker 01

  I didn't ask. He did recommend a steak place to us. He said the steak was like 20 bucks. He said they were great.

• 14:15Nilay Patel?

  That's the best.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, but unfortunately, I forgot the name, and so we ended up eating at Cheesecake Factory.

• 14:21Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 14:23Nilay Patel?

  The least.

• 14:24Speaker 03

  Go to T-Pain's $20 steak place?

• 14:27Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 14:27Speaker 03

  God, that is sad and lost, a lost opportunity.

• 14:31Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, wait, I found a T-Pain soundboard.

• 14:36Nilay Patel?

  This is a terrible soundboard. So GarageBand? Yeah.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, so the reason that we were actually down there is because there's an update to GarageBand, um, on the iPad. And it's basically a brand new interface. It looks sort of like a MIDI controller where there's just like a grid of squares. Each square is assigned to a loop, so you, basically you just tap around different squares, loop's fire. And it sounds good together.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  And yeah, so it's, I mean, it's basically, Apple wants this to be this like super, super easy way to start creating music. And like, it really is, because you can know absolutely nothing, and-

• 15:12Speaker 01

  You know, you'll be able to put together something that sounds pretty good.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  I mean, I know absolutely nothing. Nicola, how much do you know?

• 15:18Speaker 03

  Oh, nothing.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  Well, you should try it.

• 15:20Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, Nicola's got an iPad Pro over there.

• 15:21Speaker 03

  All right, I'll close this guy.

• 15:24Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Close your computer from the past. Pick up the computer of the future.

• 15:28Speaker 03

  The computer of the future, this big iPad. Okay, so I'm looking at it. First, I picked hip hop because, obviously. And it's like a black grid with yellow, blue, and green things that I can press. And they all look, they look like different kinds of tie dye, basically.

• 15:47Nilay Patel?

  Wait.

• 15:49Nilay Patel?

  Show me what you're looking at. Okay.

• 15:50Speaker 03

  Like, they look like little different tie dyes.

• 15:52Nilay Patel?

  Can I describe what you're looking at to you?

• 15:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can.

• 15:54Speaker 02

  A really, a really incredibly bad Windows 10 start menu.

• 15:59Nilay Patel?

  Metro has finally found a home. So if you are at all familiar with GarageBand, they've changed very little to the underneath of GarageBand. So GarageBand has always had tons and tons and tons of samples in it that are intelligent samples. They've just been hard to use. Like, you have to drag the samples into the grid and you start and stop by dragging.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Well, it's always like, you're, you're looking at the waveforms and that's like, I, I don't know what that means.

• 16:23Nilay Patel?

  So now they've basically made it a sampler, right? And the sampler has tons of presets. So Nicola's looking at is basically the sample, like the sampler board. And so if you, if you press one, it'll start, right?

• 16:32Speaker 03

  Should we start?

• 16:32Nilay Patel?

  Do it, man. Make that.

• 16:34Speaker 03

  I'm gonna press a green one.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  They're all gonna sync up together. So you don't have to like, you literally cannot screw up. This is like so on training wheels.

• 16:42Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. And this is the future of music.

• 16:47Nilay Patel?

  Get it?

• 16:49Nilay Patel?

  That's a very, some, very Operation Figurehead jam right here. It's Nicola walking down the street, just snapping to herself.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  Oh, that's good.

• 16:59Nilay Patel?

  That's awful. That's not good at all.

• 17:05Nilay Patel?

  Oh yeah, there you go. Now start rapping.

• 17:11Speaker 02

  I like that.

• 17:11Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:13Nilay Patel?

  It's good.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  That's good.

• 17:14Nilay Patel?

  Get it. She's so happy. If you could, if you were here with us.

• 17:18Speaker 03

  Watch the YouTube. Watch the YouTube.

• 17:20Nilay Patel?

  The joy on Nicola's face is like out of control. She's very happy. She actually was practicing with it earlier and I made her stop so that we could recapture this innocent joy of making a looped hip hop beat.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  No, but that's the thing, like you know how to create music. I have no idea. I can't make a single sound that goes with another sound. And so like, the fact that I can hit like three buttons and like, I feel like I'm doing something.

• 17:49Nilay Patel?

  Whoa.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  Very fun.

• 17:50Speaker 03

  Wow. I just highlighted like a whole row.

• 17:53Nilay Patel?

  You just turned everything on?

• 17:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:55Nilay Patel?

  I mean, so here's my question about this.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Man, I'm gonna use this.

• 17:58Nilay Patel?

  It's fun.

• 17:58Speaker 02

  I'm bad at music, but.

• 18:00Speaker 03

  We have a Blizzard this weekend. I'm gonna play with this.

• 18:01Speaker 02

  I'm gonna make like some like, like, you know, write in music.

• 18:05Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 18:05Speaker 02

  Some like chill.

• 18:06Nilay Patel?

  Chill downtown. Oh, so what you mean for that is the other app, Music Memos?

• 18:10Speaker 02

  No.

• 18:10Nilay Patel?

  Where you just like.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  They strum some chords into the phone. That's the problem with Music Memos. You have to strum chords.

• 18:16Nilay Patel?

  So let's talk about that other app real quick.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Yes, so Music Memos, Music Memos, I think is for a different audience. Like that is, I think mostly for total beginners. Music Memos is you're like a singer songwriter and you have an idea.

• 18:30Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, the, the Music Memos PR.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  They got Ryan.

• 18:34Nilay Patel?

  No, Ryan Adams is in it.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  Oh boy.

• 18:36Nilay Patel?

  And he was like, I mean, I gotta find it. It was, it's so good. And like, you just think of the Apple PR person being like, we need the perfect singer songwriter for this quote.

• 18:43Speaker 02

  But like you strum your chords, it records them.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  I guess I should say, so Music Memos, it's, it's like voice memos, but it's like beefed up with music features. Um, so there's just a record button and you're supposed to use it to record yourself playing music. But it's not, it's not necessarily for like finished final products. It's more like, I have an idea.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  It'll identify the chords for you.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's cool. It'll break down the chords, the beat structure. You can add notes like if you're using like a capo or if you have an irregular tuning. And the really neat thing is there's also buttons where you can like automatically have it add in drums and bass on top of that. So you can like sort of hear what it would sound like as a final song.

• 19:22Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. They got Ryan Adams there. Sometimes ideas, right? This is Ryan Adams. And I would point out, one of the most insanely prolific songwriters ever. Sometimes ideas come faster than I can get them in my notebook. So I used voice memos and notes to quickly capture songs before they're lost. Music memos, says Ryan Adams, is like if those two apps came together to form some kind of superpower for songs. Said Ryan Adams, critically acclaimed singer songwriter and producer. It quite literally blew my mind how music memos could transform a single guitar idea into a whole competition with a virtual drummer loose enough that felt you having your mind read by some AI musician. Ryan Adams, who I would just, I'm Ryan Adams fan. Really like him. Ryan Adams does not need any help producing more and more music.

• 20:07Nilay Patel?

  It's crazy. I don't know, man. Right. It's funny that they were like, who's the ultimate singer songwriter?

• 20:12Speaker 01

  I like legitimately believe this use case though. Like as soon as Apple got done telling me about the existence of this app. I went back and Stereo Gum had a post about one of the members of Vampire Weekend had like a new song out and like there's a quote from him. It's like, yeah, I was like, you just found some old thing in voice memos where else? And it's like, this is like actually what musicians are doing to record their ideas. And so like, I don't think it's a super original idea, but it definitely seems like a really cool setup.

• 20:42Nilay Patel?

  Well, I think GarageBand is free with the iPad, right?

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, both of these apps are free. And apparently I didn't realize this GarageBand is even preloaded on them if you have more than 16GB of storage.

• 20:52Nilay Patel?

  Really?

• 20:52Speaker 01

  So like.

• 20:53Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Wait, so if you have more than 16GB of storage on an iPad, they preload it with loops from GarageBand?

• 20:59Speaker 01

  I think so, yeah.

• 21:00Nilay Patel?

  It's kind of dope. I mean, it's awful in one way because it's like.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  No, but like I, I think probably like a lot of kids are gonna be picking this up and just be able to.

• 21:08Nilay Patel?

  We make one here.

• 21:10Speaker 03

  What?

• 21:10Nilay Patel?

  Our generation's next beat maker.

• 21:12Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 21:13Nilay Patel?

  Did you, have you guys read The Song Machine? I'm like addicted to this book. Who's the guy?

• 21:16Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I need to get this book.

• 21:18Nilay Patel?

  Everybody should read The Song Machine.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Is that the one that's about the like?

• 21:21Nilay Patel?

  John Seabrook. Yeah, so it's about how pop songs are made now.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:25Nilay Patel?

  Um, and so it's excellent.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  Seven dollars and sixteen cents.

• 21:30Nilay Patel?

  It's excellent. It's worth every penny. I like, I read it, it was like, I read it at CES, which was silly.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  How did you find time?

• 21:37Nilay Patel?

  Well, it was like, you know, cause you come home at the end of the day at CES, it's like been twenty hours.

• 21:40Speaker 02

  You literally fall on the floor. You can't even reach your bed. You're too fucking tired.

• 21:43Nilay Patel?

  Are you ever too tired to fall asleep? This is like my thing. I'm always too tired to fall asleep. So I was like wired at the end of every night, like, I'm going to bed. And I would sit there and like, this would be a thing I paged through, but I liked it so much during that time that I read it again when I came home.

• 21:55Speaker 02

  I love, Neelai literally can't talk about reading without holding his left hand out flat in front of him and then swiping invisible pages. I've seen him talk about books probably a hundred times in the past five years and every time he does it, he's like.

• 22:10Nilay Patel?

  What are the things that you mime? There are three things that I consistently mime.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  You mime, you mime iPads too. You just, instead of like going left, right, you go up, down.

• 22:17Nilay Patel?

  You know, I got an iPad. I didn't know, that's a new one. So I mime, like, it's apparently consistently mime four things.

• 22:21Speaker 03

  That's Instagram. That's what this is.

• 22:22Nilay Patel?

  That's a gram. You mime a gram?

• 22:24Speaker 02

  No, but, uh, gram is like, is one hand and thumb.

• 22:28Nilay Patel?

  Well, well, okay.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 22:30Nilay Patel?

  So I mime, apparently I mime books.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 22:32Nilay Patel?

  I didn't know I mimed iPads.

• 22:33Speaker 02

  You do mime iPads?

• 22:34Nilay Patel?

  Uh, I mime getting a check. Whenever I ask for a check, I always do that. Um, whenever I ask for Diet Coke, I go like that.

• 22:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, why do you do that?

• 22:43Nilay Patel?

  And at the end of the meal, my wife thinks this is the funniest.

• 22:45Speaker 02

  By, by the way, that is like holding up an invisible cup and shaking it.

• 22:49Nilay Patel?

  Can I get a, can I get a Diet Coke?

• 22:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:50Nilay Patel?

  Uh, and at the end of the meal, I didn't know how to do this. I often enjoy a glass of port at the end of my meal and I put up a little cup.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Shake it.

• 22:59Speaker 03

  I really love that.

• 23:01Nilay Patel?

  Like a little, and Becky's always like, you want a little? It's awful. Anyhow, so this book, Inside the Song Machine, I think Emily talked to John Seabrook, the author, on her podcast. I think she did something else with him. Fantastic book, but the reason I bring it up, it basically tracks how pop songs are written over time, right? So you see like the real building and like collections of songwriters, then Motown, and now it's a system called track and hook, where producers just sit around making beats, making tracks, and they just send them out to what's called top liners. And the top liners just sing nonsense over these tracks, and they send them back to the producers, and the producers decide which nonsense singing they like the best.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  Wait, so the producers actually get to choose who gets their song?

• 23:45Nilay Patel?

  No, they don't say, the top liners are like melody people.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  Oh, oh.

• 23:49Nilay Patel?

  So they just sing hooks.

• 23:50Speaker 02

  They just sing like watermelon, watermelon? Do they actually sing lyrics, or do they just sing like random words?

• 23:55Nilay Patel?

  So there's like a big argument.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  Lorum ipsum.

• 23:58Nilay Patel?

  They sing Latin type setting phrases.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  Come on, come on.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  You need to say that.

• 24:06Speaker 02

  That was a funny joke.

• 24:07Nilay Patel?

  It was good.

• 24:08Speaker 03

  That was a funny joke.

• 24:09Nilay Patel?

  I mean, they combined something, it was like beautifully painful though.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  By the way, someone please make a Laura Mipsum hit pop song for me.

• 24:17Nilay Patel?

  Start a beat and I'll auto tune some Laura Mipson for you.

• 24:20Speaker 02

  All right.

• 24:22Nilay Patel?

  No, actually, somebody should do that. Anyway, no, they send it to top liners. So like, if you go on YouTube, you can search for Estradeen, and she just wrote all Rihanna's songs. She just like walked into a booth and like recorded some demos over the existing beats, and then they decided that Rihanna would sing them. And like, that to me is like, just listening to how all these songs are made in that fashion is like crazy. Like, the producers were, she's in Barbados, they were in Barbados, they met her, they're like, come to New York, we're making you a star. And they're like, here are these songs to sing, like somebody else wrote them for you, which is crazy. But it's funny, because you look at that kind of garage pan, and it's just designed to like have producers make beats. Like, it's optimized,

• 25:03Nilay Patel?

  just like assemble loops into beats. And so, well, the other thing that got me is Umbrella, that symbol sound at the beginning of Umbrella, is a built-in logic loop.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  Really?

• 25:15Nilay Patel?

  It's just there in logic. Like, The Dream was just like screwing around with the built-in samples and logic, and he just made Umbrella.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  I mean, that was the thing that I was asking T-Pain about, like... Are you really going to use a built in GarageBand loop? Like you can bring in your own loops and you can make your own loops. But like, he really, I mean, he says like, I, I, you know, obviously he's working with Apple to like, talk about GarageBand, but like, you know, so take this, take this with a grain of salt. But like, he's like, I mean, yeah, you can still just mess around with the actual sound of a loop enough that like, nobody is really going to get the same exact sound as you. So like, what does it matter?

• 25:50Nilay Patel?

  No, but it's funny because the Umbrella sample is like, straight up raw. Like, it's in GarageBand too. Like, it's just one of Apple's various royalty free samples is like, The Dream is like, this is my song. It's ridiculous.

• 26:03Speaker 03

  We all have the same tools, but we can't all arrive on the same conclusions that The Dream can arrive on.

• 26:08Nilay Patel?

  It's true. All of us type on the same keyboards.

• 26:10Speaker 03

  That's what talent is.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  What you're saying is we all failed to become Rihanna.

• 26:14Nilay Patel?

  If you don't come back from this weekend with Umbrella, you're done for Fumo.

• 26:19Speaker 03

  Um, I'm going to see The Dream next month.

• 26:21Nilay Patel?

  I love The Dream. Like, he's actually one of my favorite artists.

• 26:25Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, he's playing on Valentine's Day.

• 26:27Nilay Patel?

  That is like actually perfect for The Dream.

• 26:29Speaker 03

  It's so perfect.

• 26:30Nilay Patel?

  That makes a lot of sense for The Dream.

• 26:31Speaker 03

  Anyway, going on. I'm just really excited.

• 26:32Nilay Patel?

  What's your favorite Dream song?

• 26:35Nilay Patel?

  Now I'm gonna have to listen to it. Alright, well that's.

• 26:37Speaker 03

  Come back to me, I have to think about it.

• 26:39Nilay Patel?

  Also one of my favorite Dreams songs.

• 26:41Speaker 03

  Probably, um, Equestrian.

• 26:44Nilay Patel?

  Ooh. Oh man.

• 26:47Speaker 03

  The Dream understands the female gaze in a way that, this is a whole other tangent, we can't talk about this really, but The Dream understands the female gaze in the way that no one, no one else on the planet does.

• 26:56Nilay Patel?

  I'm with you on that. I'm just, I'm looking for my favorite Dreams song. Oh, it's I Love You Girl. Duh, one of my favorite.

• 27:00Speaker 03

  Oh yeah. That's on my daily playlist. You what's up, girl?

• 27:06Speaker 03

  Okay, go on, anyway.

• 27:08Nilay Patel?

  And Shawty's shit's good too.

• 27:11Nilay Patel?

  Today's episode of Vergecast is brought to you by The Dream, and Backblaze as well. Also Backblaze. Backblaze is a personal and business backup for Macs and PCs with unlimited backup for documents, music, photos, videos, and all your user data, including Fumo's GB jams. That's her folder name.

• 27:29Nilay Patel?

  Anyway, look, there's no throttling, there's, uh, Or upload threading, which means you can back up quickly and efficiently. Backblaze has backed up well over 200 petabytes of data. Petabytes, petabytes?

• 27:40Speaker 02

  Petabytes.

• 27:41Nilay Patel?

  200 petabytes of data, over 10 billion files have been restored. There's iPhone apps, there's Android apps, you can access all your small files, all those small files on the go, with your phone, anywhere, basically an interconnection, that's like obvious stuff, like Backblaze has the cloud, guys, they put your files on the cloud, you can use your phone. Anyway, whatever, you can restore one file at a time, or all our files with Easy Web Restore, or you can just order a USB hard drive and get all your stuff all at once. There's also native backup apps for Mac and PC, more important to me now than ever before. No native app, I'm out of here.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  No, there, there are backup apps that like run like Java. There's like really crappy backup apps.

• 28:11Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, but Backblaze is good.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  Backblaze is native.

• 28:13Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 28:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:14Nilay Patel?

  Anyway, if you're already using Time Machine or X drive, great, just get Backblaze as your offsite backup, double it up. And if you're already backing up, or you're a developer, or you're a system man, whatever, check out Backblaze's new thing, Backblaze B2 Object Cloud Storage. Do you know what that means? You're in good company, because I don't either, but no worries, just check it out. Backblaze Personal Backup has no add-ons, gimmicks, or additional charges, just $5 a month per computer for unlimited, unthrottled, online backup. Listeners of the Vergecast.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  This show?

• 28:42Nilay Patel?

  It's you, we are the creators of the Vergecast, but you, my friends, are the listeners. Think about that. You can get a two, free two-week trial, go to backblaze.com, guess what it is?

• 28:53Nilay Patel?

  Slash.

• 28:54Speaker 03

  Vergecast.

• 28:57Nilay Patel?

  There it is. Backblaze.com/vergecast, two-week free trial of, you know, some primo backup shit. Backblaze.com, everybody.

• 29:05Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 29:06Speaker 03

  Hit it.

• 29:08Nilay Patel?

  I'm trying to spice him up, it's been a while since I've even had a read.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  No, that's a good slogan.

• 29:11Nilay Patel?

  Hit it.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  Hit it.

• 29:14Nilay Patel?

  Backblaze, motherfuckers!

• 29:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:16Nilay Patel?

  It's not actually their slogan, so I hope they like it. All right, we got a bunch of stuff here in, in round two.

• 29:21Speaker 02

  Hermes?

• 29:22Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, so Nicola opened the week with me by pointing out that we were slow to some Apple news.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, we were actually.

• 29:28Speaker 03

  Beautiful way to start the week.

• 29:30Nilay Patel?

  She literally sent me a note and it just said, "Slip, slip in."

• 29:33Speaker 03

  No, Apple's slipping.

• 29:34Nilay Patel?

  I thought you meant that we were slow.

• 29:35Speaker 03

  Maybe, I don't know, no, no, no, it was not to you.

• 29:39Nilay Patel?

  Nicola has also been forwarding the random things with just like garbage things with just the word Renaissance.

• 29:45Speaker 03

  They're all related to the analog Renaissance. It's all young people using record players and such.

• 29:52Nilay Patel?

  No, it's, it's, if you read it the other way, which is the way I read it, which is we're in a time of extreme cultural decline and you're using the word Renaissance to note that, it also makes sense because it's like sweaters listening to sweater music, like random brands activating.

• 30:09Speaker 02

  Cultural decline.

• 30:10Nilay Patel?

  Right. It's, it's a joke. The irony is that that would not be a Renaissance is that coffee, coffee brand activations where they're handing you film cameras to take pictures of coffee beans while you like grow a beard.

• 30:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 30:22Nilay Patel?

  Is not.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  That sounds great. I don't know what you're talking about.

• 30:28Nilay Patel?

  All right. Anyhow, so you want to, Nicola, I, I don't know how to say this out loud. The Hermes Apple Watch collection is now online.

• 30:38Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 30:40Nilay Patel?

  And you and I had a fairly interesting conversation where we talked about

• 30:42Speaker 03

  We did.

• 30:43Nilay Patel?

  Apple is a luxury retailer.

• 30:45Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 30:45Nilay Patel?

  And like, why, why do you think it was important that it was available online?

• 30:49Speaker 03

  Okay. So the thing is that they did this like $1,500 double leather strap.

• 30:56Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 30:56Speaker 03

  That you could only buy in stores, including some Apple stores, Hermes stores, I think, like a couple of super high-end fashion retailers. So the fact that they put it online, like you, like luxury brands, fashion luxury brands are really slow to sell stuff online. Like you cannot buy a fucking Birkin bag online. No, absolutely not. Join the waiting list like everyone else. Like you can't. Um, so the fact that they're selling it online, like to me that says like, well, ah, good, didn't go that well in the stores. I guess we should make this available.

• 31:28Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  On the internet. And it's also weird for Hermes because it's like, you guys don't sell stuff online. Why are you, why are you doing this? And what we were talking about is just like the idea of having a $1,500, I mean, it's a leather, it's pieces of leather.

• 31:45Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 31:45Speaker 03

  It's $1,500 pieces of leather, about like a couple Band-Aids worth.

• 31:50Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 31:51Speaker 03

  In the same room as like.

• 31:54Speaker 03

  Chords, like chords that plug things in that are utilitarian and how, yeah, it is weird. It's hard to, it's hard to create a store atmosphere where you feel okay buying like a nine dollar thing and also a fifteen hundred dollar thing.

• 32:09Nilay Patel?

  Or like buying fifteen dollar iTunes gift card. Well, the one I gave you was like USB cables.

• 32:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:14Nilay Patel?

  Right, like in Apple stores are deeply nerdy utilitarian things.

• 32:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:19Nilay Patel?

  And I think you go, I think the people, reason people like them is like, they often offer you a piece of the future, right?

• 32:24Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 32:24Nilay Patel?

  But then you can like pick up some stuff and like people buy lots of cases there and they buy lots of cables there and like it's great that it's open and you're like, I need a DVI adapter, I'll go to the Apple store.

• 32:35Nilay Patel?

  But it's really weird to think of it as like, I'm going there to buy a super fancy watch.

• 32:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:39Nilay Patel?

  And I think that, I mean, that's why they hired Angela Aron's, right? Like, I mean, she was Burberry, right? Like, what was, you've been to a Burberry store, what was the Burberry store like?

• 32:50Speaker 03

  I mean, a lot of these stores, you enter them as environments, you don't really enter them as a, there's kind of two ways to be in a luxury fashion store. You have the area where it is a person coming in to buy a handbag or perfume or jewelry or whatever it is that was like the thing that floats the business. Clothing does not float the business for high-end fashion brands, like for no one. If you are that customer, you probably work with a sales associate because they know you and you are a client. You are not a customer, you are someone that might even get invited to the fashion shows because that's how much money you spend with this company. They only have one, maybe two sizes of everything out, so it's not the kind of store where you

• 33:33Speaker 03

  can like, can't like walk in and be like, oh, I'm just gonna flip through the rack, grab a handful of Burberry clothes and just try them on. It's like, no, you need a human being that's going to be like, as soon as you start looking at clothes, there's gonna be a human being next to you.

• 33:44Nilay Patel?

  Oh, I've never understood this, by the way. This is fascinating.

• 33:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:47Nilay Patel?

  I've never understood the stores that have like four things on headers.

• 33:50Speaker 03

  I mean, because they don't want, like, they don't want you to go in and try on their thirty-two hundred dollar dress. They don't want you to, they don't want you to. Um, that's

• 33:59Nilay Patel?

  I mean, they don't.

• 34:00Speaker 03

  They don't. They really don't.

• 34:01Nilay Patel?

  To be perfectly blunt, they do not want me to try on a 30 year old dress.

• 34:05Speaker 03

  They're trying on the like runway Sheerling motorcycle jacket, you know? So, but they do want you there buying the $995 trench coat.

• 34:15Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 34:15Speaker 03

  Because that's a lot of money, but there's a lot of people with a lot of money.

• 34:19Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 34:20Speaker 03

  And they buy these things.

• 34:21Nilay Patel?

  So like, could you put the Apple Watch in that store?

• 34:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:24Nilay Patel?

  That's the flip side of it, right? Like, would you buy a tech gadget in that store? Like, I think this is really fascinating.

• 34:29Speaker 02

  You'd buy a, the gold PAX.

• 34:32Nilay Patel?

  But that's not like, it's not a compute, like, the gold PAX is like, not a computer, like, the whole point of it.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  It's a computer.

• 34:38Nilay Patel?

  It's a weed computer. I understand, I understand what kind of computer it is. But it's, it's literally a computer.

• 34:43Speaker 03

  Urban matter.

• 34:43Nilay Patel?

  It's urban matter. Anyway, but like, an Apple Watch is a different kind of computing commitment.

• 34:49Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:51Nilay Patel?

  Like, you, you can buy a PAX on a whim and then never use it again.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  That's, I think how most people bought the Apple Watch.

• 34:57Nilay Patel?

  Rough burn. Anyway, keep going.

• 34:58Speaker 03

  Okay, so, yeah, so you have that area where it's like, that's usually like, it might be like in the back, or it's like on a second level or a lower level, and that's like, you're a real person with real fucking money, and you're gonna spend a lot of it, and they care a lot about that and you. Then there's the area where it's like the stuff that floats the bottom line, so those are like handbags usually for most brands. So, to me, this Apple Watch for Hermes is kind of like, falls into that latter category, where it's like, here's a high, like, profit margin item.

• 35:25Speaker 02

  It's an impulse purchase. It's a thing like next to the cash register.

• 35:29Speaker 03

  It's a, it's a, it's a $1,500 way to enter into a brand identity that you can also enter into at $4,000. Not that you can't spend $4,000 at Apple on something.

• 35:38Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 35:39Speaker 03

  Um, but, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tiptoe into a world that you might want to be a part of, but it's a $15, $1,500 tiptoe, which is crazy.

• 35:48Nilay Patel?

  Right. I mean, I just think it's like, I, Walt and I, our, his whole podcast yesterday was just, we just talked about the watch, and he's like, I don't really use mine. Like, he's like, there's two things I do with it. I check the notifications and like, um, I, it counts my steps, and I like it when the rings close.

• 36:02Speaker 03

  When I saw that piece that he wrote, I was so, I was like, yay, I independently wrote, like, arrived on the same conclusions as this expert. Like, very, very pleased.

• 36:12Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, I mean, uh, you know, we talked about it at length, and I think that this fashion piece of the Apple Watch. The comparison that we, that is in my mind constantly is the iPod, which actually reached like an enormous amount of cultural capital and was like so cool. And it's funny because we make this Karl Lagerfeld joke about the Apple Watch constantly. But like Lagerfeld was so obsessed with the iPod that he had 14 of them custom laser engraved with his like personal music tastes, with like a special coding system. This is crazy.

• 36:47Speaker 02

  That's incredible.

• 36:47Nilay Patel?

  Crazy, crazy, crazy. And it's funny because that product, like everybody used, it had only the one function, but it became cool because it was just cool. Like there wasn't this like fashion world around it. The fashion world just like took the iPod and Apple had nothing to do with it.

• 37:03Speaker 03

  Because it was a useful new thing.

• 37:06Nilay Patel?

  Well, I just think it's, I think the, and obviously the iPod never sold as much as any of these products will sell because Apple is a much smaller company there. But it's just funny to think about technology becoming cool. The iPod was the, I think legitimately the first piece of technology that became cool all by itself.

• 37:21Speaker 02

  Walkman.

• 37:22Nilay Patel?

  No, I just totally disagree. It wasn't cool. Like everybody had one, it was like an eighties status symbol. But like the thing of the Walkman, like close your mind, what did the Walkman when it was cool look like?

• 37:35Speaker 02

  It was that yellow sport one. That was a cool one.

• 37:38Nilay Patel?

  No, it's like everybody had a little portable tape deck, but there wasn't a Walkman that was cool.

• 37:43Speaker 02

  Boomboxes?

• 37:45Nilay Patel?

  Like the whole, like we're asking the president what's on his boombox?

• 37:50Nilay Patel?

  Do you see what I mean? Like the iPod achieved this level of like cultural significance that I think is like fascinating. And I think the goal is sort of watch to achieve that level of cultural significance.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  If you think something was genuinely sincerely cool before the iPod, some piece of technology that like achieved real cool.

• 38:09Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, you can tweet at me right now. Let me know, I've been dying to know, but I, I was thinking about it all weekend, basically. And it just seems like Apple's trying to skip that line and get to cool before accomplishing the thing that the iPod did, which was, it was literally like a game changing music device.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  Well, the iPod was.

• 38:25Nilay Patel?

  Someone's gonna yell at me that the Zoom was out.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  I mean, it was like defining your personality, right? Which is so interesting because that's what they want the watch to do. They want it to be an extension of who you are, right? You can customize the band, you customize the look, but like you can't really change that much. There are all these superficial things and they're just like, look, we partnered with a high fashion brand. And I mean, Nicola knows better how that works, but like, I don't know. Is that really that exciting for people? Like, it's still, it doesn't do that much. And I say that as a person who's wearing one right now.

• 38:57Speaker 02

  Are you? What are you using this for?

• 39:00Speaker 01

  I was trying to figure that out.

• 39:01Speaker 02

  What kind of band is that?

• 39:02Speaker 01

  This is, no, it is not Apple's. It is from Monowear. It's their leather band. It's like, it is, I mean, it's good. I like it. But yeah, I, I've been trying to figure out what I use it for because I'm using an Android phone right now.

• 39:16Speaker 01

  So that's a whole other subject.

• 39:18Speaker 02

  You're using an Apple Watch?

• 39:20Speaker 01

  Well, okay. I do have, and I have my iPhone 5S up in my bag upstairs. I'm actually still getting notifications down here.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  Because on the wifi.

• 39:30Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, maybe it is.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  No, it's gonna be the Bluetooth. Like I, my Bluetooth keyboard upstairs works. If you, if someone were to go to my desk and start typing, my computer would flip out. Someone upstairs. No. Get to work.

• 39:40Speaker 03

  Done.

• 39:40Speaker 02

  It's happening.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  But like, that's the thing. I mean, it's good for notifications, but I just realized that like, I've been checking weather on my phone more than I have been on my watch now because I have it right in the Android home screen.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  Also, it takes five minutes for the watch to show you.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Oh, well, I've got like a weather widget. Like I do, I mean, yeah, that's it. I use it for the time and for the weather and like notifications come in on this faster than they come in on Android for whatever reason.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  So that's kind of nice.

• 40:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, it's, it's, it's time, time, date, notifications, weather steps.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  That's the stuff that smartwatches are good at and it's terrible at everything else. Look, I'm buying, I'm buying a $1,500 Apple Watch. I already have two.

• 40:22Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  An Apple B yet, so.

• 40:23Speaker 03

  Coolest, coolest styling of the Apple Watch I've seen so far is in the Young Thug Best Friends video.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:32Speaker 03

  He's wearing two of them sacked, which is only seconded by seeing T-Pain having his own custom bedazzled version. And this is someone who was last week was like, don't put jewels on smartwatches for women. It's so offensive. And now I'm like, I love T-Pains though.

• 40:49Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, so that I would say, I would say go, I would say buy two of them.

• 40:54Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 40:54Speaker 03

  Sport band is the best part about it. Like one is orange and one's green or something.

• 40:58Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 40:58Speaker 03

  And he just.

• 40:59Nilay Patel?

  It's like IKEA effect. No, it's definitely the IKEA effect. You know, I said this on this show before, probably a thousand times.

• 41:06Nilay Patel?

  Things in IKEA look good because you walk in and you see a hundred of them at once in every possible color. It's like, you're like, yes, I will buy this coffee table is great.

• 41:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:14Nilay Patel?

  Because there's like, there's like 90 of them in every color of the rainbow, like stretching the sky. And then you come home, you've got like one sad blue coffee table. And you're like, oh, this wasn't cool because I don't have 10 of them.

• 41:26Speaker 03

  Bed Bath & Beyond does that too, where they stack merchandise repeating all the way to the ceiling.

• 41:30Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. But no, but that's like.

• 41:32Speaker 03

  I mean, it's different. It's different merchandise.

• 41:34Nilay Patel?

  The triple B is like not as cool as like, you know, like IKEA is like, I went for it. I don't know what do you want for me? Try a lot of it up.

• 41:42Speaker 02

  I want you to not call.

• 41:43Nilay Patel?

  Who doesn't call it the triple B?

• 41:46Speaker 02

  Triple B only refers to the Better Business Bureau, okay?

• 41:52Nilay Patel?

  I'm just saying, no, but I think in a Bed Bath & Beyond, also colloquially known as the triple B.

• 41:59Speaker 02

  What about the trip B?

• 42:00Nilay Patel?

  Trip B, yeah.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Trip B.

• 42:01Nilay Patel?

  Try B.

• 42:02Speaker 03

  B3.

• 42:03Nilay Patel?

  B3.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  B cubed? No, B3. I took it too far.

• 42:06Nilay Patel?

  You know that there's like a shittier version of Bed Bath & Beyond in a, in a prototype store somewhere called B3? Like it has to be. It's like the crappier one with like a lower quality.

• 42:14Speaker 03

  No, no, no.

• 42:15Speaker 02

  What's the, what's the Crate and Barrel like?

• 42:17Speaker 03

  CB2.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  CB2.

• 42:18Nilay Patel?

  Right. And that's the day CB2 launched, the people at Bed Bath & Beyond were like, Larry, come in here.

• 42:24Speaker 03

  B2. It's like a, yeah, it's like centered for more.

• 42:27Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. And they're like, they're all writing on the whiteboard and he's like, I got it. There's that B3.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  The person in charge of strategy at Bed Bath & Beyond is definitely named Larry.

• 42:37Speaker 03

  Totally Larry.

• 42:39Nilay Patel?

  Larry, get in here. Larry, you see what these Crate and Barrel fuckers are doing? I don't know. They're not even competitors. They're just constantly worried about.

• 42:53Nilay Patel?

  It's just like, ah, man. We sell storage bins too.

• 42:57Speaker 03

  Container store in the mix. I mean, okay. Anyway, back to the Ikea fact, which then if we step one more back, where were we?

• 43:06Nilay Patel?

  We're at the watch. Oh, the new version of the watch software lets you, it'll, it's gonna support two watches at once. Multiple watches. It's gonna be a thing.

• 43:13Speaker 03

  Wait, what? Why?

• 43:14Nilay Patel?

  So presumably because they're gonna put out a new watch next year. Um, and then you can buy two of them and they'll both work, or you can buy a sport one and a fashion one. So you can have like, you'll be able to have more than one watch.

• 43:30Nilay Patel?

  So you could buy that Hermes one, but then you could wear like your sport one to the gym. It would all be.

• 43:34Speaker 03

  But you're just changing the band, ideally.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  No, I think that there's.

• 43:37Nilay Patel?

  No, there's like a finish. Like you've got the black.

• 43:39Speaker 03

  So you could have like, you could have that one and then you could have the rose gold for like other occasions.

• 43:43Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:44Nilay Patel?

  And you're still just tracking your steps and doing your thing. I don't know. I don't know if that's gonna unlock it for them, but it's something they needed to solve.

• 43:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, for some people.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  I don't know if that was the highest priority thing.

• 43:54Speaker 03

  Maybe that means they'll make a circle.

• 43:54Nilay Patel?

  If they put out a second one, they gotta get everybody to buy a second one.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  That is, that is true.

• 43:58Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  I should sell my first one now before they put out the second one.

• 44:03Nilay Patel?

  Is it clear, by the way, that I'm completely fascinated by the Apple Watch? Like, we talked about it on the show a lot. And I just think it's, it's the thing that Apple made. It's the first thing they made completely without jobs. It's the first expression of a strategy to be a more fashionable, high-end, premium company. It is, I mean, I was saying this to Walt on, on, on his show yesterday. They announced it by saying that the digital crown will be as important as the mouse, multi-touch and the click wheel, which is a high bar.

• 44:35Speaker 02

  It's the first, it's the first.

• 44:36Nilay Patel?

  A pretty high bar.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  It's the first platform that they had launched in a while that didn't, wasn't good.

• 44:43Nilay Patel?

  Right. And it, it's just like, it's, it's such a, like, they have to get it right. Right? And they, they can't, they can't cut bait on it for a long time. Right? They, they just can't. And I'm, and, and I'm a huge nerd and I think the idea of like a gadget watch is like a great idea. And so like everything about it just like draws my attention to it. Like far away, like. The TV is like, if you've been listening to the show, I've talked about TV on every episode of the show for like a thousand years, right? Like, we can talk about Apple TV all day, but like, they're just gonna get it. It's just gonna, it's just gonna sort itself out. They have the best TV platform of anybody. They just need to cut deals, right? Right.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  Is that what they need, though? Because I feel like other people are doing the exact same thing and other people do have deals. Like, what are they gonna do that's?

• 45:23Nilay Patel?

  Nobody has a streaming TV deal. And nobody else has.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  That's how true Sling does.

• 45:27Nilay Patel?

  But.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  I mean, okay, fine, but.

• 45:31Nilay Patel?

  But like, Sling doesn't have a.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  Is it really?

• 45:33Speaker 02

  Sony, Sony does.

• 45:34Nilay Patel?

  Does Sling have a box?

• 45:35Speaker 02

  Sony, Sony has a box and a deal.

• 45:38Nilay Patel?

  The PlayStation TV thing?

• 45:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:39Speaker 01

  Right, like, why is Apple's gonna be any different?

• 45:41Nilay Patel?

  But that's like, it's not, it's individual.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  No, but like, they've got the PS4 and they've got a View.

• 45:45Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  Just saying.

• 45:47Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 45:48Speaker 02

  Their box is more expensive, but, you know.

• 45:50Nilay Patel?

  The View, how much is the View?

• 45:52Speaker 02

  The PlayStation View service?

• 45:53Nilay Patel?

  Right, it's in the PS4.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  Right, that's what I'm saying.

• 45:55Nilay Patel?

  So, but that's not, not quite, that's not quite, right? They have the deal because they have a limited market share. The same way Apple got the music deal for iTunes because they had limited market share and they put it on a Mac first.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 46:05Nilay Patel?

  Sling is on.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  Xbox and.

• 46:08Nilay Patel?

  Right, it's like, it's on these little piddly devices, limited market share.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:11Nilay Patel?

  Apple has the mass market opportunity. Their platform is the best one. Like, it's actually a computer, unlike the Roku. Like, you can see the Roku, like, rebooting into whatever.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  I have a lot of hopes for Apple TV, but it is like, basically the same thing as the Roku.

• 46:27Nilay Patel?

  No, no, no, the user experience, like, the thing that happens at the end, it's all, they're all the same.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  My Apple TV is bugging as hell, by the way. The apps are way worse than they were on the last version of the Apple TV. The new Netflix app on the new Apple TV is a garbage fire.

• 46:40Nilay Patel?

  Hmm, disagree.

• 46:41Speaker 02

  Totally wrong.

• 46:42Nilay Patel?

  I am. I think the remote's.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  I had, I had to unplug the thing and plug it back in because it wouldn't pause.

• 46:47Nilay Patel?

  I guess what I'm saying is.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  Also, the remote's garbage. I hate the, I hate the Apple TV.

• 46:51Nilay Patel?

  Everybody kinda hates the remote.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  But it's what we use. I have a Roku, I have a Fire Stick, I have Chromecast, and we still use the Apple TV even though I'm like frustrated with it.

• 47:00Nilay Patel?

  I love the new Chromecast.

• 47:02Speaker 02

  It's great.

• 47:02Nilay Patel?

  Like it's really, anyway, my point is that they will just do the Apple thing and slowly iterate on the Apple TV and it will get better because it's obvious what it should do. And it's obvious what they need it to do. Like it's blindingly obvious what they need the Apple TV to do. It needs to let you watch live.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's no, there's no confusion about that path.

• 47:20Nilay Patel?

  Right. So like, great, we can complain about it. We can say you like it and I don't like it. Who, whatever. It's just the watch is like, it needs a path.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  And the thing is that, that I find super interesting is like, Apple has these crazy ideas. There's going to be this communication device, right? There are two buttons on this thing. One of them is dedicated to a messaging feature that zero people use.

• 47:41Speaker 02

  Zero people.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  And the, you know, one of the reports right now is that like, the next one's going to have a camera on it, which I assume will be for like sending little videos to other people.

• 47:50Nilay Patel?

  Or FaceTime.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  In what circumstance would I FaceTime?

• 47:54Nilay Patel?

  That's the most Dick Tracy shit though, right?

• 47:57Speaker 01

  I mean, that's something that if Samsung did, we would like laugh at them. I think they might have done it. I don't know.

• 48:02Nilay Patel?

  Almost certain. Samsung was like, this watch is great for creep shots. And it was like, yeah.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  Like.

• 48:08Nilay Patel?

  That was the first gear, remember?

• 48:09Speaker 01

  Right, right. Yeah, it was on the band, right? And for spy shots or something like, I don't know. Um, but like, that is this crazy vision to me. I feel like that's not what the watch is like obviously for. I mean, it's really interesting that they have these like broader ideas and they're trying to do something that most people aren't with smartwatches. But like, it would be cool if they nailed like one thing first.

• 48:35Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's the big question. It's like, are no, are perfect notifications and some more, more watches than like adding another feature that someone might want to FaceTime for? It's like, I don't know. I honestly don't like, that's, this comes back to the point like, we as a group have seen a lot of things and the path from any products is like usually clear. But smartwatches as a whole, path not clear, right? Like, it's like, here's what they should do and they can get better at this, but that's not going to like open the billion unit market. I don't know. Anyway, we need a lightning round. Ready? By the way, if you know what the Apple Watch should do, tweet at us.

• 49:13Speaker 02

  Has anybody tweeted you a cool object? Cool technology?

• 49:17Nilay Patel?

  Let me look.

• 49:18Speaker 03

  I copied you on a, on the photos of Young Thug.

• 49:22Nilay Patel?

  Somebody pointed out that I've now explained the IKEA effect on the Vergecast for like a hundred times.

• 49:26Speaker 03

  My first time here.

• 49:27Nilay Patel?

  Just, just effectively IKEA affecting the.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, there you go.

• 49:32Nilay Patel?

  Um, yeah, no one's screaming anything. There's nothing. I'm telling you, iPod was the first mass market cool piece of technology.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  I do not believe you.

• 49:39Nilay Patel?

  The color TV or something. You know, it's like, but that doesn't count.

• 49:42Speaker 02

  There's, there's, there's gotta be a picture of like James Dean doing something cool with some gadget somewhere.

• 49:48Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, it was called a cigarette. It was a startling innovation. He rolled it up into his T-shirt sleeve and everyone was like, that man is a master of cool.

• 49:57Nilay Patel?

  Pack cigarettes?

• 49:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, a pack, not a single cigarette. I was envisioning him rolling a single cigarette.

• 50:01Nilay Patel?

  You know, he tried that one time, right? He's like, ah, he's like, I don't know. This one's not working. All right. Um, oh, two important ones, uh, lightning round we can open up with some deep, deep cuts, not deep cuts, deep issues. Netflix keeps defending Binge On, uh, which is crazy to me.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  It's insane.

• 50:18Nilay Patel?

  Binge On is T-Mobile's data throttling service and Netflix was one of the biggest proponents of net neutrality. And then Verizon launched sponsored data, which lets companies buy data. So it doesn't hit your data plan. So TC and Russell are upstairs and they're like, we need a new name for this. Like we want net neutrality. But now there's like a new kind of fuckery afoot where everyone's dodging around it by making anti net neutrality things free. And I just, I don't know what we would call it, but it's very strange. Like binge on is like, you can make an argument for binge on. It's free.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 50:52Nilay Patel?

  So like, if you are a T-Mobile customer and you want to watch videos, we made them free.

• 50:57Speaker 01

  So like devious about like sponsored data in the first place. Like if you're telling me I can stream Spotify for free. Like that is awesome. So of course I want that.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. I've, I've been thinking about this. Like, yeah, that sounds fine. Here's the thing that I would rather they do. Just up my data cap. Like the idea that T-Mobile is going to stream all this massive amount of video and this massive amount of music for free and like just give away all of this data. Maybe just up your

• 51:28Nilay Patel?

  They're like

• 51:28Speaker 02

  No, so they're not.

• 51:29Nilay Patel?

  So they're

• 51:30Speaker 02

  But they're throttling it.

• 51:31Nilay Patel?

  The video, they're not, they're cutting it because they're throttling it.

• 51:34Speaker 02

  Right.

• 51:35Nilay Patel?

  Any video.

• 51:35Speaker 02

  So they're actually saving data on the video.

• 51:37Nilay Patel?

  Right. And I think this is the real issue TCU is pointing out to me there. It's beyond just knowing, like, working with Netflix to cut down on their data rate.

• 51:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:48Nilay Patel?

  Because that's like one thing, right? Netflix and T-Mobile have made a deal. If you're a Netflix customer or a T-Mobile customer, you can flip the switch. Netflix will intelligently cut your video quality. You won't hit your cap like, okay, I, and I'm the most rabid net neutrality proponent out there. But fine, right? Like, fine. If you, if you can opt into that as a customer of both companies, you are expressing a market preference. That is cool.

• 52:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 52:15Nilay Patel?

  You want higher quality video, put the switch, whatever. Fine. I'm not like in love with it, but fine. But they're also doing like deep packet inspection.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 52:24Nilay Patel?

  So that if you are downloading videos, they will identify your video packets and throttle just those on across the board. That shit's dirty.

• 52:34Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 52:34Nilay Patel?

  And like that, like.

• 52:36Speaker 02

  Well, the other thing that's dirty to me is like, when I buy internet service from somebody, I buy a certain speed. And I'm like, if I want more, I'll pay for more. And the idea that the quality of my service is being affected by backroom deals.

• 52:52Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 52:52Speaker 02

  Even though they're like telling me about them after they happen, even though like there's not costing me more money. Like, it is, it is like this weird corruption of net neutrality. It isn't quite a corruption of net neutrality. Right? It's just like, it's, I feel the same way about it that I feel about like searching inside apps from like Google. Like, Google and Siri can search inside an app now, right? Like, I can search for a restaurant information and I can dig right into the OpenTable app. That's great. But you know how that works? A deal. Backroom deal between OpenTable and Google and Apple. Not just like, here's how to read our app, anybody can do it. And now that's happening with like access to everything on the internet. So, yeah, we need a new name. Netfuckery.

• 53:37Nilay Patel?

  Netfuckery.

• 53:39Speaker 02

  Russell, I hope you're listening. That's gonna take off.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Well.

• 53:43Nilay Patel?

  Paid neutrality.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  Paid neutra- no.

• 53:45Nilay Patel?

  That's awful. People are tweeting. Keep, bring them in. Bring them in. Anyway, uh, Uber takes on Seamless. Uber's not delivering food in 10 US cities.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:56Speaker 03

  They've been doing that for a while.

• 53:57Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 53:58Speaker 03

  Team Ract regularly does the Uber Eats.

• 54:00Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. What's Uber Eats like?

• 54:01Speaker 03

  Um, like every day there's one or two different, um, food things to choose from and they're like, pretty like 10 bucks or so for lunch.

• 54:09Speaker 01

  But why would you do that over Seamless?

• 54:11Speaker 03

  Well, because they'll, they'll do restaurants. So they'll do chefs that are like, cool, you know?

• 54:16Speaker 02

  So you know Uber Rush?

• 54:17Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  So why can't I use Uber Rush myself? I wanted to Uber Rush my glasses back from my apartment down to me here.

• 54:26Speaker 03

  What? I, you can't schedule a pickup?

• 54:28Speaker 02

  You can only Uber Rush from businesses, I thought.

• 54:31Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 54:33Nilay Patel?

  Anyway. Well, this edition of the lighting round has come to a close. Uh, Minecraft education edition is announced.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  This is, I'm like a little pumped about this. It's like for $5 per student, schools can like, put Minecraft, like, give Minecraft to all their students. They can use it at school. They can use it at home. They're building a web, Microsoft's building a website where teachers can go to share like Minecraft worlds and lesson plans. Like, I think this could actually be really cool. It's a lot of work to do. They haven't actually done that much.

• 54:58Speaker 03

  What do you learn on it?

• 54:59Nilay Patel?

  Um. Oh, you gotta play Minecraft.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, that's the thing. You don't necessarily learn on it. Um, it's, you're literally just playing Minecraft, but like,

• 55:06Speaker 02

  But there's like,

• 55:07Speaker 01

  you're inside a human eyeball.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. They, they, they made it so you can share the Minecraft worlds and it's with a single file, which is new. And so like, they, someone built an eyeball and you can go wander around it. Like you can go tour the Parthenon in Minecraft.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:19Speaker 03

  We had a speed typing game that was basketball related.

• 55:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:23Speaker 03

  I was number two and look at me now.

• 55:25Nilay Patel?

  I, um, my niece and I, we're like addicted to Minecraft and they're like, we play in our computer class. And I was like, hmm, do you know like my computer class, like, I actually learned to type on gigantic green typewriters? And they were like, tell me, they like literally like looked at me like, tell me about them.

• 55:41Speaker 03

  We had the Macs that were the colors. They were like kind of circular in the back. They were like, I think they were like fruit colors.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  I, IMAX.

• 55:48Nilay Patel?

  You had IMAX? You didn't have, in high school and grade school?

• 55:51Speaker 03

  Grade school.

• 55:52Nilay Patel?

  You're not that much younger than me. Are you really?

• 55:53Speaker 03

  1988 birth.

• 55:55Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 55:56Speaker 03

  We had, yeah, the ones that had the color. I think they were called, they had

• 55:59Nilay Patel?

  They were. Yeah, tangerine, strawberry.

• 56:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  I had apple two E's.

• 56:04Nilay Patel?

  I want to kill myself right now.

• 56:05Speaker 02

  I, I.

• 56:05Nilay Patel?

  I mean, it doesn't matter because my body is dying all on its own.

• 56:08Speaker 02

  I played logo.

• 56:08Nilay Patel?

  Because of old age.

• 56:09Speaker 03

  Mine is too.

• 56:10Nilay Patel?

  But yeah, but you've, I hate you.

• 56:12Speaker 02

  You're all younger than me.

• 56:13Nilay Patel?

  Sundance is starting.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  Great Sundance.

• 56:16Nilay Patel?

  Uh, Netflix already bought two movies. Amazon bought a movie already.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is interesting. Jameson was saying like, apparently last year they like had a little bit of trouble. Fight like getting deals done to buy movies and like the fact that they're already before the show scooping all this stuff up.

• 56:32Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  Um, I mean, maybe that just means that filmmakers have warmed up to them or that they brought more money out.

• 56:37Nilay Patel?

  I think they have more money. I think, I think they both want to win way more like, there were no Oscars for them, right? And maybe there was like one editing one.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  I don't even know, but, but.

• 56:46Nilay Patel?

  But no Oscar, not on Amazon, Netflix. Like, I think they want, that's the next prize for them.

• 56:51Speaker 02

  They gotta make some friends with some old white dudes.

• 56:53Nilay Patel?

  By the way, Netflix shutting down the VPN stuff. Brutal, brutal. Uh, last one. It's a group, group participation exercise. Are you gonna watch Super Bowl? We have to. It's a cultural relevant product.

• 57:06Speaker 03

  Love being part of the now.

• 57:08Nilay Patel?

  Are, are you gonna watch Facebook or Twitter while you watch Super Bowl?

• 57:10Speaker 03

  Uh, I don't have Facebook.

• 57:14Nilay Patel?

  Wild new information. What?

• 57:16Speaker 03

  Long standing.

• 57:17Nilay Patel?

  When did you, when did you drop Facebook?

• 57:19Speaker 03

  Two thousand and ten.

• 57:19Speaker 02

  Oh, we're gonna talk about this on the next Vergecast. That's the sole topic.

• 57:24Speaker 03

  No, I haven't. I only rejoined it when I was at Ract and I had to post articles. And then I went off of it again and then I rejoined it for Tinder and then I quit that habit. So I don't have it.

• 57:32Nilay Patel?

  Huh. So Twitter then is your answer.

• 57:33Speaker 03

  Twitter is my answer.

• 57:34Nilay Patel?

  Wow. Uh, does Trey have Facebook? Trey Shalhoun?

• 57:38Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 57:39Speaker 03

  You have to have it to have Tinder.

• 57:42Nilay Patel?

  Oh.

• 57:43Speaker 03

  You can't have.

• 57:43Nilay Patel?

  He doesn't have a Twitter. It's really hard to, it's really hard to tweet.

• 57:46Speaker 02

  Someone made him a Twitter.

• 57:48Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Trey, by the way, for all of you listening, so video producer, you wouldn't know him because he doesn't have a Twitter unless he's not a person. Dieter, Facebook or Twitter for the Super Bowl?

• 57:58Speaker 02

  I mean, traditionally Twitter, but I'm, I'm, I guess I'm gonna try out this new Facebook jam, see, see what it's like.

• 58:04Nilay Patel?

  I'm ready to leave Twitter. Um, this is what I'm saying. Twitter stock is. Uh, you know, there's two games left to play, so I don't know the answer, but I can, I can hazard a guess.

• 58:14Speaker 03

  Can we hazard a guess?

• 58:16Nilay Patel?

  It's the Panthers and the Patriots. The Panthers are gonna win.

• 58:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:19Nilay Patel?

  That's my guess.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  That's how it's gonna go.

• 58:20Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 58:21Nilay Patel?

  I only say this because

• 58:22Speaker 03

  I went to the NFL headquarters yesterday.

• 58:24Nilay Patel?

  They must lose. Huh?

• 58:25Speaker 03

  I went to the NFL headquarters yesterday.

• 58:26Nilay Patel?

  Oh, yeah?

• 58:27Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 58:27Nilay Patel?

  Did you meet Roger Goodell? Did he find you?

• 58:29Speaker 02

  Did you, did you see somebody that looked like, nevermind.

• 58:33Nilay Patel?

  Why'd you go to NFL headquarters yesterday?

• 58:35Speaker 03

  Because they did 50 bespoke footballs with the CFDA Council of Fashion Designers of America. So they got fashion designer to do footballs. Matt Alfred and I went and had

• 58:44Nilay Patel?

  Oh, I saw this on Snap.

• 58:45Speaker 03

  A real blast.

• 58:46Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 58:47Speaker 03

  Much more to come.

• 58:48Nilay Patel?

  I didn't realize that was at NFL headquarters.

• 58:49Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 58:50Nilay Patel?

  Very nice. Man. All right. I'm dying to see that. Um, but I'm saying I'm over Twitter. That's my thing.

• 58:57Speaker 03

  You're over Twitter?

• 58:58Nilay Patel?

  I think Twitter, Twitter

• 58:59Speaker 01

  What about Twitter?

• 58:59Nilay Patel?

  Twitter's like stock is tanking. I, I, I just watched like

• 59:02Speaker 02

  Who should buy him? Who should buy Twitter?

• 59:04Nilay Patel?

  I think it should go away.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  Dude, if it's News Corp, that's then.

• 59:07Speaker 02

  That would be amazing.

• 59:08Nilay Patel?

  I, I, I, I don't, I don't see

• 59:10Speaker 02

  And they would try and merge it with MySpace. Think about it.

• 59:14Nilay Patel?

  I, the most value I get out of Twitter is when we're on this show and I'm like, tweet at me if you have a thing. And people talk to me. The value I get out of the Twitter community is like basically falling to zero.

• 59:23Speaker 03

  Well, what did you used to get?

• 59:25Nilay Patel?

  Like, I got the value of the Twitter. Like, there was like lots of people tweeting and it wasn't like a competition and it wasn't like, there weren't like fucking gamergaters, you know, like it wasn't

• 59:33Speaker 02

  You follow too many people.

• 59:34Nilay Patel?

  No, it was, it's not that. It's what like, following people is like, whatever. Like I, that will, I guess, always be, with like, participating in Twitter is a thing.

• 59:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 59:45Nilay Patel?

  And getting like, feeling good about what happens once you tweet. Basically, like, it was really high and then like last month, I was just like, am I getting anything out of this?

• 59:54Speaker 03

  I'm having so much fun.

• 59:56Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 59:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. I'm having a great time on Twitter.

• 59:59Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Maybe I need a new account and I need to curate it.

• 1:00:01Speaker 03

  I do really want a private account.

• 1:00:03Nilay Patel?

  Like a shadow Twitter.

• 1:00:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. I want a private account for my personal life.

• 1:00:06Nilay Patel?

  Shadow Reckless. That's also the name of my like, Japanese all-girl band, Shadow Reckless.

• 1:00:12Speaker 03

  That's great.

• 1:00:12Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:13Speaker 02

  Well, shouldn't it be Reckless Shadow?

• 1:00:16Nilay Patel?

  That's good.

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:17Nilay Patel?

  Um, Facebook, Twitter for the Super Bowl.

• 1:00:19Speaker 01

  Um, I mean, I don't care about like the sports stuff. So just Twitter. I just want to see what like people I know are saying.

• 1:00:24Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  And like, I don't think people actually post live updates on Facebook.

• 1:00:29Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. I think if Facebook enables that, that's them, that's them saying we're, we're done. Like turning the knife on you, Jack.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:34Nilay Patel?

  You're done Twitter. Anyway, that was our show.

• 1:00:36Speaker 02

  And this podcast, I have to see what Liz Lopato has to say about the new X-File series right now. It's on the internet.

• 1:00:41Nilay Patel?

  Okay. Look, here's what you can do. You can follow The Verge on Twitter. Uh, we're at Verge.

• 1:00:46Speaker 03

  But who's using that anymore?

• 1:00:48Nilay Patel?

  Like us on Facebook, which is the future. Uh, more future is on Snapchat. We're Verge on Snapchat. You can hit us up on iTunes. There are so many other podcasts now. There's What's Tech with Plant. Uh, he did What's Sundance with Emily Shida. Walt and I, we've talked about Control Alt Delete several times. Uh, it went up today. We talked about the Apple Watch. Verge ESP is back. I know they recorded today.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  Weekly.

• 1:01:08Nilay Patel?

  It's back. It's weekly. They recorded today. I think Emily was at Sundance when they recorded and the episode's on Fridays. And then Verge Extras are like, literally our podcast with extras, has the full Jake and T-Pain interview also hitting on Friday.

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  I, I literally only found out about this, this second. I, I read the script and I was like, oh, that's great.

• 1:01:28Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  Cause we chatted for a long time.

• 1:01:30Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. You were like an hour with T-Pain.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:34Nilay Patel?

  Kara Swisher on Recode has Recode Decode.

• 1:01:37Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:01:37Nilay Patel?

  Uh, which is great if you're into tech and media. Peter Kafka also helps host that. Uh, and then Lauren Good.

• 1:01:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:43Nilay Patel?

  Vergecast's favorite Lauren Good has her own new podcast, Can't Stop It with Kara, uh, called Too Embarrassed to Ask, where she answers your tech questions. It's true. We should. All this on iTunes.com slash The Verge, except for the Recode ones.

• 1:01:58Speaker 02

  We found those.

• 1:01:59Nilay Patel?

  Just like whatever. Just like locate them, right? Um, anyway, you're on YouTube. Search for Vergecast. Nicola is Nicola underscore Fumo.

• 1:02:06Speaker 03

  On Twitter, if you still use it. Snapchat's my real medium.

• 1:02:09Nilay Patel?

  It's true.

• 1:02:10Speaker 03

  Nicola Fumo, all together.

• 1:02:11Nilay Patel?

  Nicola has some like deep Snapchat game. It gets, I mean, it gets real on there.

• 1:02:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:16Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:16Speaker 03

  I don't hold back.

• 1:02:17Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Uh, my favorite one the other day was when she had one that was like, where's Kwame? And there was a.

• 1:02:22Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. When we were at Spotify party, when Fabulous played. I mean, this is what happens. Kwame and I are at Fabulous parties, literally on my Snapchat. It's the best. It's what you should be doing in your free time.

• 1:02:31Nilay Patel?

  Where's Kwame? And then there's Kwame just like getting down. It's amazing.

• 1:02:33Speaker 03

  Actually, I had, I was like, Kwame, hold on. I had to take a video of you because it's part of the story.

• 1:02:38Nilay Patel?

  It's good. Dieter's at Backlon. That's right. I'm at Reckless. Jake is at Jake underscore K. We're available to you 24 hours a day on tweets. I don't know, whatever. It's been so long. Anyway, that was Vergecast. It's wonderful having you here. We'll be back next week where Nicola's going to tell us why she quit Facebook. For an hour.

• 1:02:58Speaker 03

  One hour.

• 1:02:58Nilay Patel?

  Interrupted by a Backblaze ad. That's it, rock and roll. Oh, by the way, thanks to Backblaze for paying for this. Yeah. That was great.

• 1:03:05Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:03:05Nilay Patel?

  Backblaze, hit it.

• 1:03:07Speaker 03

  Hit it.