Mel Giedroyc - I Lost My Biggest Fan When Mum Died

Mel Giedroyc is a comedian, writer and TV presenter who has been entertaining the nation for over 30 years. Hired in 1996 as a writer for French and Saunders (alongside best friend Sue Perkins), Mel’s career took off and she went on to co-present hit Channel 4 series Light Lunch and Late Lunch, and then the Great British Bake Off. Since then, Giedoryc has written a Sunday Times bestselling novel and fronts the podcast, Where There’s A Will There’s A Wake. Now she returns with a new book, The Comeback, a funny, big-hearted novel about second chances set in a community. In this hilarious and moving episode, we talk about how she feels she is always ‘getting away with it’, life post-Bake Off, having children, not making it to her mother’s deathbed due to a big night out, and the recurring nightmare that she has never been able to shake… IN THIS EPISODE: 00:00 Introduction 02:55 Getting Away With It 05:43 Bake Off 08:43 Life After Bake Off 09:45 The Comeback Novel 10:21 Theatre And Family Roots 17:18 Cambridge Degree Disaster 28:49 Mums Deathbed Regret 30:46 Strokes And Stolen Years 32:05 Boozy Night Missed Call 36:10 Work As Grief Shelter 39:36 Remembering Rosemary 43:50 VHS Shame Spiral 52:00 Goodbyes And Final Thoughts LINKS + MENTIONS: Listen to Mel’s podcast, Where There’s A Will There’s A Wake here: swap.fm/l/ZuaKfvomuCzS7P3cLJzx and watch here: https://www.youtube.com/@WhereTheresAWillTheresAWake The Comeback is available to pre-order now: www.hachette.co.uk/titles/mel-giedroyc/the-comeback/9781472256263/ Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com WANT MORE? Miranda Hart - swap.fm/l/oTScN30b80GflJtO4rgu Celeste Barber - swap.fm/l/qLmwfjyeSolWuFeaHGdt Stephen Merchant - swap.fm/l/Lta5mlFbVnPHyFb8R1n2 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan and Jen Mistri Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  And I've never done this before in my life, and I've only done it once. I phoned my agent and I said, I want out of this. And their dad said, could they come and stay with us, please, for half term? Mum said, absolutely brilliant, we'd love to have them. And they stayed for seven years. And I was doing that thing where I was half laughing, half crying. You know, that thing where you're just like, like that. I slightly sharted at Didka Parkway, can I say that?

• 0:27Elizabeth Day?

  Hello and welcome to How To Fail with me, Elizabeth Day. This is the podcast that believes all failure has something to teach us in the fullness of time, even if the only thing it teaches us is that we were strong enough to survive it. Before we get into this episode, please do remember to like, rate and subscribe so that you never miss a single conversation.

• 0:50Elizabeth Day?

  Confession time. I have a tendency to postpone certain decisions for far longer than is sensible. Not the big life decisions, oddly enough, those I can usually handle. It's the smaller ones that somehow become disproportionately complicated. For me, rugs fall squarely into that category. I've known for a long time that a rug can completely change how a room feels, but I've always found sizing for a space tricky. That's why Ernesta appealed to me. Ernesta makes designer quality rugs, custom cut to the exact dimensions of your space. So instead of making do with something that's close enough, you're choosing something made specifically for your home. I also love the fact that you can order five oversized 12 by 12 samples for just $10

• 1:35Elizabeth Day?

  before committing and Ernesta's design team will help with sizing completely free of charge. Visit ernestacom and order five samples for only $10 and you'll get $50 towards any rug of your choice. That's ernestacom.

• 1:52Speaker 02

  This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey, everyone, this is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the centre of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practise or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced government sanctioned religion. It's about protecting your right to say, this is what I believe, while your neighbour

• 2:36Speaker 02

  says, I believe something completely different. And honestly, that's the whole point. If that sounds like the kind of America you want, learn more at au.org/gettingbetter. Because your beliefs are yours and theirs are theirs.

• 2:53Elizabeth Day?

  Mel Gedroich is a comedian, writer and TV presenter who has been entertaining the nation for over 30 years, almost always intentionally. The youngest of four children, she was raised in Leatherhead, Surrey, where she discovered an early passion for theatre. Later, at Cambridge University, she met Sue Perkins through Footlights. It was platonic love at first sight. They formed a comedy duo and spent years performing at the Edinburgh Fringe, as well as touring the country and supporting themselves with odd jobs. Gedroich was variously a barmaid, a telesales agent and a cleaner. Their big break came in 1996, when French and Saunders hired them as writers.

• 3:37Elizabeth Day?

  From there, Mel and Sue went on to present the hit Channel 4 series Light Lunch and Late Lunch, and then in 2009, fronted the Great British Bake Off, shaping the show with their trademark kindness and humour. They stepped down from Bake Off in 2016, leaving them free to pursue independent careers. Since then, Gedroich has written a Sunday Times bestselling novel and fronts the podcast, Where There's a Will, There's a Wake. Now she returns with a new novel, The Comeback, a funny, big hearted book about second chances set in a community theatre. My whole career, she says, has been random and quite surreal.

• 4:20Elizabeth Day?

  She got away with it, that's what'll be on my gravestone. Mel Gedroich, welcome to How To Fail. Welcome back, I should say, because it's the second time in this chair.

• 4:32Speaker 00

  It's so nice to be back.

• 4:33Elizabeth Day?

  It's so lovely to have you back and this time it is all about you, because the first time was through a round table, but now the focus is on Mel.

• 4:42Speaker 00

  Can you see me because I'm very well camouflaged in the pink?

• 4:46Elizabeth Day?

  I can just about see you, it's like one of those 90s pixel drawings where I have to focus my eyes carefully and then you pop out because you have very kindly dressed in our brand colours today. So thank you.

• 4:56Speaker 00

  Always very professional.

• 4:57Elizabeth Day?

  Now, that idea of having got away with it, you don't really think that, do you?

• 5:01Speaker 00

  Do you? Yes and no. I would say, I mean, Sue and my career together is about our friendship. We were never manufactured and put together by a manager. We were mates at university, so everything that we've done together, the kind of the core of it, the DNA of it, is about us being friends. But when we get together, unless we are marshalled, corralled, sort of basically positioned, we just chat, laugh, go over old anecdotes, do what friends do. I would say we find it hard to be kind of business people, because the friendship is always first.

• 5:47Speaker 00

  Getting away with it, I think implies that we're not very, you know, we don't have flow charts and pie charts in an office somewhere. We don't have an office. The Mel Sue Collective literally meets in one of our houses or a pub or a curry house. There's, there's nothing very together about it. And I'm not, I don't think I'm being disingenuous when I say that.

• 6:11Elizabeth Day?

  But do you acknowledge that you're talented?

• 6:15Speaker 00

  I find that hard.

• 6:18Speaker 00

  I find that hard because I think if you do, you've sort of lost the plot a bit. And I've met people who I admire, some of them, who are very, very sort of sure of themselves and kind of say, I'm really good at this, I'm really confident at this. And sometimes I go away just thinking, bit of a plum. Do you know what I mean? Can I say that?

• 6:43Elizabeth Day?

  Yes, you absolutely can.

• 6:45Speaker 00

  Because you just sort of, I just sort of think, oh, really? You know, but at the same time, and I've said this word already on the podcast, so forgive me, I don't want to be disingenuous and sort of say, oh, I'm so bad, oh, I'm so bad, I'm so terrible, you know? I think I am a confident person and I love what I do. But I think the day that I kind of say, I've got this, is the day that I'll have to give up.

• 7:07Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 7:08Speaker 00

  Do you know what I mean?

• 7:08Elizabeth Day?

  I do know what you mean. And I think there's something specific about your humour, which is never about punching down. There's a kindness to it that is observational and compassionate, that doesn't detract from it being funny.

• 7:21Speaker 00

  I hope so, yeah.

• 7:22Elizabeth Day?

  Well, I think that's why it was so special when you did Bake Off, because you brought that into the mainstream and it felt like we hadn't seen it on that kind of competitive reality show. We hadn't seen that level of kindness. It wasn't sentimental.

• 7:36Speaker 00

  Okay, good.

• 7:37Elizabeth Day?

  It was funny as well.

• 7:39Speaker 00

  Yes, I think if it gets too saccharine, then it, it stops being funny, doesn't it? There's got to be a kind of a balance. But I've got to tell you this, day one, series one, shooting Bake Off. I think the thought was, because it was a reality show, it would be filmed along the lines of those kind of, right, go, go, go, get that person, they're crying, right, they're, they're having a breakdown, get that person, move the cameras, quick, quick. There was that kind of vibe and I was, I was really shocked, actually. And I've never done this before in my life and I've only done it once. I phoned my agent and I said, I want out of this. This was after day one.

• 8:22Elizabeth Day?

  Leave Sue in there, but I want out.

• 8:25Speaker 00

  I think I did let her know. I said, look, I'm going to phone the agent. And she was like, yeah, yeah, no, no, that's fine, that's fine. And I called a meeting in the bed and breakfast where we were. This was the morning of day two of episode one, because it had been like an 18 hour shoot and everyone was in tears. And I just thought, I've, I've never worked like this before. So there was a bit of a summit meeting, I have to say, which happened between episodes one and episode two at the BBC where.

• 8:57Speaker 00

  I spoke up and I just said, this is not the kind of show that we want to make. I'm really sorry. We won't get the best out of people. I don't like this vibe where everyone's crying and then suddenly they're on camera. People do cry on Bake Off, but they cry because it's kind of emotional and they've put stuff into it. We don't want to make them cry because they're so exhausted and they feel, you know, put upon. So I think, I hope, we made it very clear the kind of show that we wanted to make. And I've never done that before. I've never threatened anything like that in my life. I'm just not that kind of person. But I felt in that instance, I had to say something because it would have been really grim.

• 9:41Speaker 00

  And things changed. Things, things changed after that day. So I was really, you know, we were as a collective. We were proud of ourselves that we'd sort of spoken up because I think it would have been a very different show.

• 9:53Elizabeth Day?

  Definitely. I mean, well done. That is, because honestly kindness often gets overlooked. Because at its essence, it's a very radical thing. You revolutionise television in a, in a way. I mean, it really did. No, I'm saying it, you're not. I know you can't. But that, that was a huge thing to have done and good for you.

• 10:14Speaker 00

  I happen to believe as well, you know, and this is probably with the kind of the slight business head or the TV head or whatever it is on, that you actually get the best out of people when they're relaxed. And that was our prime, prime, number one concern. And what we aimed to do, it was our ambition on that show, was to make the bakers feel relaxed. Because then you get the best, you get the best out of them. When they're having a laugh and when they feel they can sort of forget they're on camera. I mean, it's a bit of a no brainer, really.

• 10:46Elizabeth Day?

  I want to come on to your book in a minute, but just before I do, Bake Off continues to exist without you. Is it a bit like a kid going to university?

• 10:54Speaker 00

  It's, I feel bad. I, hand on heart, I never watched the show when we did it. My, my family watched it and I'd occasionally go in and just be like, you know. I've never watched it, so I haven't seen it on the BBC. I've seen bits, of course I have. I'd be lying if I said I, I haven't seen bits. But I've never sat down and watched like a whole series or a whole episode. So when it went to Channel Four with all the kind of the, the, the furor and the la di da that surrounded that. I haven't, I haven't followed it. We hoped and we knew that it would do well. I never wanted it to do badly. I, I don't believe in that, that schadenfreude bullshit. Because I kind of think it only comes back at you.

• 11:37Speaker 00

  If you want ill on something or somebody else, it'll just come back on you. So we always wished it well and it's done brilliantly because it's a really good format. We know that it's in safe hands.

• 11:48Elizabeth Day?

  Let's talk about the comeback, your new novel, because it really is the epitome of this kind of warm humour and observational kindness. And it is such a joy to read. Now, we have quite a few things in common, which we'll come on to.

• 12:05Speaker 00

  Not Leatherhead.

• 12:06Elizabeth Day?

  Epsom.

• 12:07Speaker 00

  Oh, I was born in Epsom.

• 12:08Elizabeth Day?

  So was I.

• 12:09Speaker 00

  Epsom District Hospital.

• 12:10Elizabeth Day?

  So was I.

• 12:11Speaker 00

  Oh, my love.

• 12:12Elizabeth Day?

  I know, Epsom's so special.

• 12:13Speaker 00

  Oh, my god, Epsom.

• 12:15Elizabeth Day?

  Big up the Epsom massive, no one's ever said, but I, I feel deeply connected to you.

• 12:20Speaker 00

  Oh, Epsom.

• 12:21Elizabeth Day?

  Epsom and Leatherhead. Now, the comeback is actively inspired by your experiences as a child of community theatre, isn't it?

• 12:29Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 12:30Elizabeth Day?

  What did theatre mean to you at a young age?

• 12:33Speaker 00

  I can say, hand on heart, even more than Christmas Day, and this is terrible, I'm sorry mum and dad. It sounds very irreligious about Christmas Day, but for me, the most important day of the year was the day that we went to panto. And I'm sure there are a lot of kids who feel the same. It was, it was everything. It was so particular and so special. And it was the first time I ever got onto a proper stage. Because there's always that bit in panto, it's usually the dame who says, and come on up, kids. I don't know if they do it these days, probably with health and safety. I really hope they do do it these days. But all the kids bundled on and I remember just running up every, every year.

• 13:16Speaker 00

  And just that feeling of being on a stage. It sounds a bit pretentious and a bit hammy, but it was just, I just couldn't believe it. I just got the bug really early on.

• 13:27Elizabeth Day?

  And the comeback is set in this world of community theatre. And you, you open the book with a quote from Voltaire, because even though it is very funny, you also are a very learned writer, can I just say? You make an amazing joke about Heddergabler and giving heads, okay? That's what I was saying. It's so good.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  Thank you. Thank you. I'm really pleased.

• 13:49Elizabeth Day?

  So good. But you start with this quote from Voltaire, whoever condemns the theatre is an enemy to his country. Is that how you feel?

• 13:57Speaker 00

  Definitely. Yeah, absolutely. I believe so strongly in the power of theatre and the power of the arts in general. I believe it should be funded with every penny that we have. I believe it is so important for children, for young people particularly, as a place to belong, as a place to express yourself, as a place to feel free, as a place to feel that you're not under the constraints of your school or your family situation or whatever it is. It is vital for a healthy society. And we are absolute idiots if we don't fight to have it funded properly.

• 14:36Elizabeth Day?

  You are the youngest of four. Plus you had two foster brothers.

• 14:40Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 14:42Elizabeth Day?

  What was your experience, what was your experience of being the youngest?

• 14:45Speaker 00

  Ah, so mum and dad are sadly no longer with us, but the six of us had a really sort of lively, it was a lively household, lots of gags. My brother's the eldest and he is swear down the funniest guy that I know, the funniest. So you had to kind of like, there was a sense of, right, I've got to, I've got to keep up, I've got to keep up here. There's a lot of bants, a lot of teasing. No one was allowed to have a sort of a pumped up, pompous view of themselves. And as the youngest, you've got to really fight to get yourself heard. Hence going into shubness.

• 15:25Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 15:27Speaker 00

  Going into shubness. Loved being the youngest, but then when I had my two foster brothers, that was so good. It was so good to actually suddenly be, be, you know, older than, older than the two of them. I loved that. It gave me a sense of, you know, status, responsibility.

• 15:47Elizabeth Day?

  What a beautiful thing for your parents and your family to do.

• 15:49Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, listen, it was the seventies, so it was done completely unofficially. They were, Greg and Rob, they were the sons, stick with me on this, the sons of my elder sister's godfather's brother.

• 16:05Elizabeth Day?

  Got it.

• 16:07Speaker 00

  Their family had some challenges and they rang my mum, because that's what people did. They always rang my mum. She was the go to. Phone Rosie, get her on the phone, what do we do? What's happening? And, and, and he, their dad said, could they come and stay with us, please, for half term? Mum said, absolutely brilliant, we'd love to have them. And they stayed for seven years. Yeah, it was one of those. They were with us in term time. They went to their dad in the holidays, but they went to my school. They were like my little brothers and it was amazing thing of my mum to do. When I think of it, incredible.

• 16:45Elizabeth Day?

  We'll talk more about your mother coming and I'm looking forward to that. What an incredible thing. In so many ways, everything we've been talking about in terms of the community theatre is reflected a bit in your family. It's this sort of group of people brought together by an endeavour bigger than them. And it's a lot of fun as well.

• 17:05Speaker 00

  It's to do with my dad being an immigrant as well, you know, coming here as a refugee, as he did after the war in nineteen forty seven and joining my mum. And she had quite an artistic, big, lively family. So the two of them, the pairing in Leatherhead, it was sort of open doors because dad knew loads and loads of poles that had come over in a similar situation. So every house was an open house in a way, all the poles. We had loads of poles coming through.

• 17:42Speaker 00

  Some relatives, some friends. There was never a sort of closed door policy until the day my mum died, literally. And I know we're going to talk about that as well. It's so sweet. Until the day she died, there was an open door. Come in, yeah, people come in, everyone's sitting around, everyone is, yeah, the group mentality, the gang, it's all about the gang.

• 18:05Elizabeth Day?

  Beautiful. That is the second thing that we have slightly in common. My husband's mother is a Polish refugee. A very, very similar story. Her parents were taken to the Gulag from a very similar place to your father, I believe. She lost two older brothers on the way, who she never met. And she was born in a refugee camp in Jaffa. And, and then eventually came to England and was raised in Lancashire. So, and she has this extraordinary warmth and spirit about her that is so special.

• 18:39Speaker 00

  Oh, that's really interesting. And I think it's probably because if you've lost your home, maybe it's because wherever you then go, you want to create. You need to create something around you that replicates. I don't know, I'm no psychologist, but there may be something in that, you know.

• 18:56Elizabeth Day?

  You're a podcast host, it's as good.

• 19:00Elizabeth Day?

  But Justin, my husband, has always felt very connected to you and has always rooted for you on TV for that reason.

• 19:05Speaker 00

  That's really lovely. Does he speak Polish?

• 19:08Elizabeth Day?

  No, he's also half Italian, so he speaks more Italian.

• 19:11Speaker 00

  Oh, that's a great combo. Polish, Italian, that's a great, the warmth levels must be like.

• 19:17Elizabeth Day?

  Rocketing high.

• 19:21Elizabeth Day?

  One of the things I hear a lot from listeners is how tiring it can be when your mind just doesn't settle. And I can only imagine this feels even heavier with intrusive thoughts. It's that quiet sense of being worn down by something you never asked for and never wanted, but just can't seem to switch off. If you struggle with this, I want to tell you about NoCD, because it's a resource that genuinely helps people. NoCD provides specialised treatment for OCD. And what I appreciate about their approach is how human it feels. You're matched with a licensed therapist trained in ERP therapy. That's exposure and response prevention. And over time, you learn skills that help your OCD symptoms become manageable, so you can live more of the life you want to

• 20:06Elizabeth Day?

  live. If you're struggling with OCD or unrelenting intrusive thoughts, NoCD can help. Book a free 15 minute call to get started at learn.nocd.com/fail.

• 20:18Speaker 02

  This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey, everyone. This is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the centre of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal, and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practise or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced government sanctioned religion. It's about protecting your right to say,

• 21:00Speaker 02

  this is what I believe, while your neighbour says, I believe something completely different. And honestly, that's the whole point. If that sounds like the kind of America you want, learn more at au.org/gettingbetter. Because your beliefs are yours, and theirs are theirs.

• 21:18Elizabeth Day?

  Let's get on to your failures, Mal.

• 21:20Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 21:21Elizabeth Day?

  Okay, your first failure, in your eyes, you failed to get a decent degree. So you go to Cambridge, you study languages.

• 21:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:30Elizabeth Day?

  Do you enjoy your degree?

• 21:33Speaker 00

  I had such a great time at uni. And I know, people always, I tend to put the old prisms, you know, the rose tinted prisms on everything. So as far as I'm concerned, everything in the past was great. Everything that happened was great. Nothing bad happened. Obviously, it was up and down, but in general, I absolutely loved university. I do, I have a dream, probably twice a year, a recurring dream, where I'm going to my finals.

• 22:05Elizabeth Day?

  I have the same dream. That's so weird.

• 22:07Speaker 00

  Isn't it? Isn't it awful?

• 22:09Elizabeth Day?

  Yes. And I haven't learnt the syllabus. Yeah, exactly the same.

• 22:12Speaker 00

  But, Elizabeth, I hadn't. I hadn't.

• 22:14Elizabeth Day?

  Oh.

• 22:15Speaker 00

  I genuinely hadn't. It was, it was really, really bad. It was really bad. For some reason, unbeknownst to me, there was a whole array of papers, of exams, I could have chosen, things like 20th century French literature. I loved reading French books, could have done that. And art history one, would have loved that, all that kind of stuff. I chose the history of the Italian language, which was, no offence to any, you know, people that do that, the driest thing I could have chosen. And I didn't attend a single lecture. Not a single one. Not a single one. So I was in absolute doo doo. And my best friend

• 22:58Speaker 00

  walked me to the exam. And I was doing that thing where I was half laughing, half crying. You know, that thing where you're just like, like that, all the way to the exam. And I wrote about 25 pages of absolute guff. I wrote about the goodies, who were a comedy sketch, sketch trio in the 1970s. I wrote about Monty Python. I wrote, it was all guff. I mean, I wrote lots and lots. But I mean, at Cambridge University, this gift, this, this gift of, of, of an opportunity, I don't feel good about that. If I could, I would go, I wouldn't get into Cambridge now, absolutely no way. That was 40 years ago, different

• 23:42Speaker 00

  times. I would go to university and I would do that degree again.

• 23:47Elizabeth Day?

  I'm actually impressed that you got a two two, that given. That must have been so stressful.

• 23:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was, it was awful. So that dream, I don't know if yours is the same. I was literally, and this is awful, before that exam, that particular one, there was medieval French as well, which, again, hadn't done. I didn't, I hadn't been to any lectures. Anyway, I was considering, this is awful, I was considering if I could fall down a few stairs and get a minor breakage on my writing hand, so that I, so that I couldn't do the exam. I was literally, I remember standing at the top of the stairs, and then I thought, this is really bad. I can't, I can't do this. I painted on a black eye with some lipstick, which looked shite, some dark lipstick. I painted on a black eye,

• 24:40Speaker 00

  because I thought, if I go in with a black eye, maybe they'll think, oh, we'll bump her up a bit, because she's obviously had a bit of a hard time. Ridiculous, desperate.

• 24:49Elizabeth Day?

  Also, that, that, yes, desperate.

• 24:52Speaker 00

  Desperate.

• 24:53Elizabeth Day?

  The way you're talking about it, it's also funny, but I imagine at the time.

• 24:57Speaker 00

  It wasn't.

• 24:58Elizabeth Day?

  Did you feel a sense of responsibility to make the most of this degree and this opportunity?

• 25:05Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 25:06Elizabeth Day?

  Partly because of what your father had been through, right?

• 25:08Speaker 00

  Yes. Dad came here with nothing. He came here with a sort of a Polish army, because he was training up. He was too young. He never fought, thank goodness. He was training up in what was then Palestine, in the Polish military school. So he had his uniform. I think he had one small suitcase, a few little bits and bobs that they'd managed to save from the old life and took through Siberia. A couple of photos, and that was it. That was it. He came here with nothing. And he did an aeronautical engineering degree at London University. He got, he was really clever. He got in, he got a grant to do that,

• 25:52Speaker 00

  and he gave half of his grant to his mother, so that she could, you know, live. I mean, and then I just went in the 80s and just squandered, la, la, la, la, la, you know, drinking, having a brilliant time, you know, I mean, come on.

• 26:08Elizabeth Day?

  You say squandered, but you did.

• 26:11Speaker 00

  I met Sue.

• 26:12Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 26:12Speaker 00

  I met Sue. I met brilliant people, and I did lots of comedy. I did do lots of comedy.

• 26:17Elizabeth Day?

  Is that why you didn't make a single lecture? Because you were busy with footlights?

• 26:20Speaker 00

  But, but lots of people were busy with footlights, and they blooming worked and got a good degree.

• 26:25Elizabeth Day?

  Did you ever talk to your dad about your feeling of shame?

• 26:29Speaker 00

  No, my dad, I think because I was the youngest, was actually quite indulgent, probably. He was a bit more hardcore with the elder ones, but I think when it got to me, they were just so like, oh, whatever, you know, they were tired and just thought, well, you know, she's gone under the radar, so be it. We also shared a real love of comedy, and I think that got me out of jail. So God bless him, God rest his soul, he never made me feel terribly guilty. There was the odd, you know, little gag about it, but no, that was very, that was very good, actually. I was never made to feel guilty about it.

• 27:10Elizabeth Day?

  Talk to me about your friendship with Sue. I described it in the introduction as platonic love at first sight.

• 27:16Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 27:16Elizabeth Day?

  Does that feel accurate to you?

• 27:18Speaker 00

  Totally. Thirty eight years, at the time of recording, that we have known each other. We met in 88. And it was like, so back in the late 80s, when we were, when we were there at uni, there were, there was a lot of comedy going on, which was great. It was pretty much all blokes. It's very different now, you know, thank goodness. I think there's real, a lot more parity and equality. But then, there weren't that many girls who were doing comedy. So to find that kindred spirit and share a really strong feeling of humour with that person, it was, that was a gift. To find somebody that you

• 27:58Speaker 00

  can literally just jackknife into a kind of hunched position and cry with laughter is, is a real blooming gift. We knew immediately that we, that we had that.

• 28:12Elizabeth Day?

  She has spoken in the past with great love and honesty about discovering that she wouldn't be able to have children around the time that you were having children.

• 28:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:24Elizabeth Day?

  And it's one of those topics that I am deeply passionate about talking about, because I don't have children, and went through that phase of trying and failing to have babies, when so many of my friends were popping them out, it felt like.

• 28:37Speaker 00

  How difficult, how ghastly.

• 28:40Elizabeth Day?

  It is difficult. And you're so compassionate and kind to say that.

• 28:44Speaker 00

  Honestly, I can't, I mean, it's, it's, that's a really, really difficult thing to go through.

• 28:50Elizabeth Day?

  It is. And some friendships lasted.

• 28:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:55Elizabeth Day?

  And some friends stayed the course and were so understanding. And I hope that I reciprocally was understanding.

• 29:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:02Elizabeth Day?

  And some fall by the wayside. Obviously, yours and Sue's has only got stronger and closer. But what was that like for you to go through that with her?

• 29:14Speaker 00

  It's an odd one, because I suppose when I had children, I was so taken up with that, and so diverted and distracted by that. Looking back on it, I probably, maybe should have been a bit more aware of how she was feeling, actually, now we're talking about it. I think she did the right thing, because actually, what she did was, I was taken up with that for, for, you know, however many years. And she made the wise decision, actually, to just, to just work. And she had my blessing. She had my absolute blessing to go and do brilliant stuff, which she did on her own. And again, you know, I'm sure

• 29:57Speaker 00

  there were moments when I sort of was at home thinking, oh, you know, I wish I was, you know, I was doing that. I'm sure I'd be lying if I said there weren't. But in the main, I just felt.

• 30:09Speaker 00

  This, this, this is, this is right. You've got, you've got to follow your own destiny, haven't you?

• 30:14Elizabeth Day?

  Hmm.

• 30:15Speaker 00

  And of course, we came back to it together when, when Bake Off turned up out of the blue. I probably should have been a bit more aware. It's only in retrospect where you think, okay, that must have been, that must have been hard.

• 30:29Elizabeth Day?

  Well, to hopefully help you feel a bit better, I think I only realised in retrospect how I felt not having children, in particular friendships. It's one of those things that just takes a while to

• 30:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:42Elizabeth Day?

  understand. And the best friendships, like yours and Sue's, allow space for that understanding to come about.

• 30:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:50Elizabeth Day?

  And what a testament to

• 30:52Speaker 00

  Yeah. She's also bloody brilliant with children and she's godmother to my eldest. And I've actually basically said over the years, you're kind of, you're kind of godmother to both of them. And they both absolutely adore her. Slightly annoying sometimes. I'm like, hello, hello, you know, and I'm the naggy one and the boring one and the one that's kind of going, have you filled out your form for the, the, the, and you know, all that stuff. And she is just the fun one, the one that you go to, do you know what I mean?

• 31:23Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 31:23Speaker 00

  So that has been the most amazing thing actually in my life and certainly in my kids' lives as well, to have perks there as that kind of just stalwart unfair. Sometimes she's forgotten their birthdays, but that's fine. We, we let her get away with that. They, they love her. And I think, I hope that that's kind of made things really better.

• 31:50Elizabeth Day?

  Definitely.

• 31:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. She's brilliant with her nieces. Children are very drawn to her actually because she's got a very, as well as a very cerebral, you know, grown up side, there's a very playful, just silly, numpty-ish side that kids just kind of go, okay, we're in the right place here. This is really good fun.

• 32:11Elizabeth Day?

  Yes. And you're not bullshitting me.

• 32:12Speaker 00

  And you're not bullshitting me.

• 32:14Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 32:14Speaker 00

  Yeah. But God bless her because she could have, she could have shut that off. You know, she could have kind of gone, oh, that's too sad, or that doesn't feel right, or you know, but she didn't. And that's, that's testament to her actually.

• 32:27Elizabeth Day?

  I love the two of you. Thank you so much for

• 32:29Speaker 00

  I've even got a pink bra on for goodness sake.

• 32:32Elizabeth Day?

  Thank you.

• 32:32Speaker 00

  Pink sports bra, on brand, always on brand.

• 32:35Elizabeth Day?

  What about your pants? You don't have to show them to us.

• 32:38Speaker 00

  The pants are grey.

• 32:39Elizabeth Day?

  Okay, fine.

• 32:40Speaker 00

  They weren't meant to be, but you know.

• 32:42Elizabeth Day?

  It's just the general soup of grey that turn all on the pants the same colour.

• 32:45Speaker 00

  Thanks for soup.

• 32:48Elizabeth Day?

  Okay. Your second failure is a very moving one. And it's your failure to get to your mum's deathbed.

• 32:58Speaker 00

  Hmm. Yes.

• 32:59Elizabeth Day?

  First of all, I'm so sorry for your loss.

• 33:02Speaker 00

  Dear Elizabeth, listen, these things happen. I was doing a musical at the time and my mum was ill when I took the job on. And I went to mum and it was, she, she was living in Oxford and the musical was in Bristol. And I said to mum, I've been off this musical. And without hesitation, it was always her way. She went, you've got to do it. You've got to do it. And I was like, okay, the, the train line between Oxford and Bristol's really good. So I knew that I could get to her a lot. But I said, mum, do you feel okay with this? She was like, don't be ridiculous. You've got to do it. In fact, she bought a ticket to come and see it and she never got to see it. But anyway, so I was doing the

• 33:47Speaker 00

  musical at the time and she was going, she was going downhill and she actually died once the show was up and running and I had 16 shows to go. But in a classic mum way, she was, she was a nurse in her earlier years, very practical, very together. She actually died very, very early on a Sunday morning so that I had a bit of a gap before I had to be back on stage on Monday night. And I didn't have an understudy and I felt this was a new musical. I felt the show, the show's got to go on. If I don't do it, then there'll be somebody that comes on with a script and it'll just, no offence to anybody, but the

• 34:32Speaker 00

  show, it was a comedy, the show just would be a bit, and it was sold out, people, you know, so I thought, I've got, I've got to keep going for those 16 shows. Anyway, because mum was really ill and I knew, we all knew she was going down.

• 34:46Elizabeth Day?

  Do you mind my asking what the illness was?

• 34:49Speaker 00

  So mum had been ill, blimey, for, for about 35 years. She had really, she had a lot of strokes when she was 54. So her health was always very, but she was very strong-willed and just sort of kept going. I said to my brothers and sisters, you know, well, we all said we had 36 stolen years because actually she, she was pegging out in 1991. She really was. So we were very, very lucky that she kept going, will of steel. So she had the strokes and then everything just started to kind of shut down basically. But, oh, this

• 35:31Speaker 00

  is where I failed badly. So I'd been to see her on the Friday. In fact, all of us were there together, which was just brilliant. Again, open door. I think there might have been a rogue priest there as well. You know, the door was open and, and it was great. Saw her on the Friday and she was very, very unwell. I had a show in the evening, so I had to kiss her goodbye. And I said, mum, I'll come and see you on Sunday. Anyway, I left and I'd had my phone on all the time, day and night throughout the whole run, in case I could just get to Oxford. So I had two shows on the Saturday and had loads of mates in, like ridiculous, loads and loads of mates in the Saturday afternoon and in

• 36:14Speaker 00

  the evening. And they lined up four drinks for me after the show because they knew that it was stressful behind the scenes and that mum was dying. They'd lined up all these Bacardi and Diet Cokes, which is my drink of choice. And I was like, guys, I haven't been drinking the whole run. You know, I'm going to see mum as much as possible. Anyway, they were like, you look stressed, get them down you. I, I drank four Bacardi and Diet Cokes. Absolutely smashed. I was the last person to leave the theatre that night. They were literally trying to lock up and I, I was, I was, yeah, I was in a bit of a state. Got back to my flat in Bristol. It was pissing with rain. I could, I could literally barely see, got back into

• 36:57Speaker 00

  the flat, got the key in. And then I just, I sprawled in my clothes, stage makeup on, on the bed, failed to put the charger onto my phone for the first time in two months. You know, ridiculous immature behaviour. Woke up in a, so hungover and I thought, oh my God, I've got to get down to see mum. Plugged in the phone, da, da, da, scraping off the makeup. And I can just hear in the bedroom, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, like 50 messages. So I just knew, I knew that she died. And of course, once the phone juiced up and I got the messages, there was my darling sister who had been with her, you

• 37:39Speaker 00

  know, saying from 2am to, to, to 2.50 to 3, to da, da, da, da, da, just taking me through it basically. And I just, again, it was that sort of half laughing, half crying feeling of going to my exam. I just walked to the station in a total state, looking like Alice Cooper with the makeup sort of down there and got on the train. Oh dear, it was, yes, absolute nightmare. And got to the place where she died, which was in a nursing home and the whole, the whole family were there. Couple of priests, always, there's always priests involved in our family. I think there was a dog. I think somebody's dog was there.

• 38:23Speaker 00

  Mum laid out, she'd, she'd already, you know, obviously died nine hours before. And I had the piss ripped out of me right royally, right royally as I stepped into the room. It was just like, you know, so there was a lot of, there were a lot of tears, but there was also a degree of laughter as well.

• 38:43Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 38:44Speaker 00

  And I think mum would have probably laughed.

• 38:48Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 38:48Speaker 00

  It was the only night that I didn't have my phone charged.

• 38:52Elizabeth Day?

  But isn't that, what a story. I mean, thank you so much for telling it.

• 38:57Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 38:57Elizabeth Day?

  And I want to acknowledge the pain that you must have carried on that train journey to Oxford must have been inordinate.

• 39:06Speaker 00

  Just madness.

• 39:07Elizabeth Day?

  And there's also part of me

• 39:09Speaker 00

  I slightly sharted at Didcot Parkway, can I say that?

• 39:11Elizabeth Day?

  Absolutely.

• 39:12Speaker 00

  Everything went a little bit, a little bit wrong. There was a sharting incident at Didcot Parkway and I can never go through that station without

• 39:21Elizabeth Day?

  Without thinking, Didcot Shartway.

• 39:25Speaker 00

  Because I was rea- the booze is obviously still in the system. I hadn't been drinking because I'd been really on it, visiting mum all the time, you know. And then I just let rip that one night. And of course, that's the night where it all happened.

• 39:39Elizabeth Day?

  There's part of me that feels your mother made that happen.

• 39:42Speaker 00

  I totally agree.

• 39:44Elizabeth Day?

  She wanted you to have like a great time and would have found it funny, as you say.

• 39:50Speaker 00

  I totally agree with you. And also, it was definitely mum who was saying, because part of me did think, look, should I, this is quite mad. Mum died early Sunday morning, I'm on stage Monday night.

• 40:03Elizabeth Day?

  Right.

• 40:03Speaker 00

  I could hear mum going, well, of course you've got to do the show.

• 40:05Elizabeth Day?

  Right.

• 40:06Speaker 00

  You can't let people down. It was a good distraction.

• 40:08Elizabeth Day?

  Well, I want to ask you about that.

• 40:10Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 40:11Elizabeth Day?

  I'm grieving at the moment and work is something that I'm finding extremely helpful for reminding me who I am outside of that process. And I think it's a valid coping mechanism.

• 40:27Speaker 00

  I totally, I'm totally with you. And I'm extremely sad that you're having to go through this.

• 40:31Elizabeth Day?

  Thank you, Mel. Thank you.

• 40:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's tough, isn't it?

• 40:34Elizabeth Day?

  It's incredibly tough.

• 40:36Speaker 00

  Surreal, tough and bollocks, actually.

• 40:38Elizabeth Day?

  Surreal is, the notion of time just concertinas into chaos.

• 40:43Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 40:44Elizabeth Day?

  But what was it like for you to, was it 16 shows remaining, did you say?

• 40:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:49Elizabeth Day?

  Looking back on that period, do you think there was a coping mechanism to it? Or, or looking back, do you think it just delayed the inevitable grieving process? What was it?

• 41:00Speaker 00

  Both. Yeah, I think it was both. I think it was nicely parked and in the lovely gang that was that show. And everyone was so kind and so delightful and not, you don't, you don't want people saying, I'm so sorry all the time, do you? Because it's too much. You can't deal with that. You just want people to just understand.

• 41:22Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 41:22Speaker 00

  But just in a way, give you space, I think. Well, that's certainly what I wanted. And they did that. They were absolutely brilliant. The show must go on and it's really helpful. But you don't get a, it doesn't mean to say that it goes away, does it? It's there, it's parked. You do what you can and then you have to deal with it.

• 41:43Elizabeth Day?

  And when was this? Sorry, how far along are you in the grieving process?

• 41:48Speaker 00

  Two, two years.

• 41:49Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 41:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:50Elizabeth Day?

  Does it get any better?

• 41:53Elizabeth Day?

  It just gets different, doesn't it?

• 41:54Speaker 00

  It gets different. Yeah. I think the first year is really hard, isn't it? And it just comes up to bite you the whole time and you're not expecting it. I think you've got to give yourself time and space, haven't you? I found walking really good.

• 42:10Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 42:11Speaker 00

  And a big turnaround was actually doing a week. Me and my husband love a bit of a walking holiday. Middle aged alert. And we did a lovely walk and I just, I just did a lot of blubbing and laughing and chatting and walking. It's just that, it's just that movement, isn't it? Just that kind of, you can let everything go. And I found that really, really good, really useful.

• 42:37Elizabeth Day?

  And being in the context of the natural world and being, I'm finding it helpful sort of just being around trees and thinking these trees have been around for hundreds of years. And there's a, there's a bigger context.

• 42:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:50Elizabeth Day?

  Being in nature, turns out it's good for your mental health, Mel. Did you know?

• 42:53Speaker 00

  God. Do you like a cold water swim?

• 42:56Elizabeth Day?

  I refuse to call it cold water swimming. Like, yes, I swim in cold seas occasionally.

• 43:02Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 43:03Elizabeth Day?

  But it's not a thing. I just, it's swimming.

• 43:05Speaker 00

  It's swimming. Yes, no, you're right. I love swimming.

• 43:07Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah, good.

• 43:08Speaker 00

  I love swimming, yes. I do find that really good. Because it resets things, doesn't it?

• 43:14Elizabeth Day?

  It does. And there's also something about being in your body and reminding yourself of your strength. So when you're sort of sitting or swimming in very cold water, it's like, oh, I'm capable of this. That's very important.

• 43:29Speaker 00

  Yes, that's really good.

• 43:31Elizabeth Day?

  Your experiences with your parents dying, I wonder if that has brought you a new insight into death? Because you, you also, as I mentioned earlier, front the amazing Where There's a Will, There's a Wake podcast, which whilst funny, is, it, it kind of leads you into some very profound places. You're essentially asking guests what their ideal way of dying would be. Have you thought about it a lot?

• 43:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. I love doing Where There's a Will, There's a Wake, which is, yes, as you, as you mentioned, the podcast that I do. Kathy Burke originated it and she passed me the baton for which I'm so grateful to her. Because as you know, doing this is a wonderful way to kind of spend an hour with somebody. It's such a privilege to sort of have that time with somebody. But also, because it is related to death, it is a comedy podcast, I should say. But you can't help going into those moments of shade as well as the light, which actually I really, really love. And definitely as far as my mum and dad dying

• 44:38Speaker 00

  and death being quite a big part of our lives as a family for, for, for a few years and losing in-laws as well. You can't help but think more about it. But doing Where There's a Will, There's a Wake alongside just kind of feeds into it and makes it feel not all right. But just the talking about it, it just makes it feel, we're all in this together. That's what it is.

• 45:06Elizabeth Day?

  This episode is brought to you by the RSPCA. I know a number of people who've adopted their pet from the RSPCA with huge success. So I am personally a big advocate. Also, producer Hannah actually fostered kittens for the charity called Belinda and Millie. So we're very much aligned with what the RSPCA is trying to do here at How to Fail. We know that animals have rich emotional lives, just like we do. My cat Huxsey is a prime example of a cat with a lot of empathy and wisdom, for example. And animals deserve the same kindness and respect. Every kind of animal matters, pets, wild or farmed animals. Together, we can create a better world for them.

• 45:51Elizabeth Day?

  Show your love for every kind and find out more and see what action you could take to help animals. Check out rspca.org.uk. There are so many things I wish I'd known when I started this podcast and my production company, Daylight. Like, why am I spending hours trying to make a website look good? Why am I designing everything from scratch? And why am I spending all my time just doing admin? What I really needed was one place that could do all of this for me. Enter Shopify. Shopify has beautiful, ready-made templates that make your website look polished without needing to become a graphic designer overnight. Its AI tools can help you get your site up and running quickly.

• 46:33Elizabeth Day?

  And Shopify Checkout makes it really easy for customers to actually go from, ooh, I like that, to, yes, I'll have one. If Shopify had existed when I started out, I could have saved myself a lot of time, stress and some rogue design choices. If you're ready to hear the of your first sale today, head over to Shopify.co.uk/fail to start your free trial today. That's right, start your free trial at Shopify.co.uk/fail.

• 47:03Speaker 02

  This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey, everyone, this is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the centre of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practise or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced government sanctioned religion. It's about protecting your right to say, this is what I believe.

• 47:47Speaker 02

  While your neighbour says, I believe something completely different. And honestly, that's the whole point. If that sounds like the kind of America you want, learn more at au.org/gettingbetter. Because your beliefs are yours and theirs are theirs.

• 48:04Elizabeth Day?

  Before we move on, I want to talk about your mum. I want to talk about Rosemary, Rosie. And just what was she like? And what might you have said to her? Had you made it? Or had you already said the things that you needed to convey, do you feel?

• 48:18Speaker 00

  That's, that's really interesting. Well, I hope it's interesting. It's kind of interesting for me.

• 48:23Elizabeth Day?

  It's really interesting and it's necessary and meaningful.

• 48:27Speaker 00

  She was five foot nothing of total grit and humour and good vibes, mum. The combo. Mary Berry's quite similar.

• 48:41Elizabeth Day?

  Really?

• 48:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're quite similar. They come from that generation of women. And it is, it's women

• 48:49Speaker 00

  that just.

• 48:51Speaker 00

  Cope, get on with stuff, occasionally brush things under the carpet where probably women of our generation would sort of unpack it in a good way, but they're very much that, nope, the show must go on, on we go, let's not think too much about ourselves. Big smoker, my mum, god, she loved cigarettes, god, she loved cigarettes.

• 49:13Elizabeth Day?

  What was her favourite brand?

• 49:14Speaker 00

  Silk Cut, always. She started smoking when she was a nurse, so she became a nurse, I think, at seventeen. She started her training and she lost the ability to sleep completely. She was an insomniac because of doing all the night shifts and stuff, and also grew her love of smoking. And she had to stop smoking when she had her strokes, but otherwise she always said, god, if I hadn't had those strokes, I would literally, I would just be, you know, committed now. She missed it, I think, every day for thirty-six years. Amazing.

• 49:49Elizabeth Day?

  And what would you say she gave to you? What part of her do you still carry?

• 49:55Speaker 00

  Oh, I think, I hope, a sort of robust ability to be able to laugh at things. Mum managed to do that really well, just in terms of, I think, seeing the bigger picture. I think that's what it was, having a bit of perspective on things and not taking yourself too seriously. Taking yourself seriously enough, but not too seriously to turn you into an asshole, basically. She was quite strict, mum. I think we're less strict with our own children. She was pretty strict, but particularly in her kind of latter years.

• 50:35Speaker 00

  So she died, she died seven years after my dad died and she got, she let it all go, man. After dad died, she was so soft and just brilliant. We absolutely loved going to see her and be with her. They were very precious times, actually. I used to see her a lot, which I loved. No, we miss her every day.

• 50:57Elizabeth Day?

  I'm sure.

• 50:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:59Elizabeth Day?

  Did your parents watch Bake Off?

• 51:00Speaker 00

  Unbelievably, this is embarrassing. I think they watched everything I ever did.

• 51:05Elizabeth Day?

  That was so lovely. Would they talk to you about it or would it just be one of those things that silently they were proud?

• 51:11Speaker 00

  There are many, many, many, many, many VHS tapes that I've, that I've got and they need to be transferred, obviously, onto a stick. That would be helpful. They were very, very loyal, loyal fans. And it's actually quite weird. I talked to a friend who's an actor who lost his mum quite recently and we had a good chat about this. It's like, we suddenly realised we, we both lost our biggest fans. So you kind of think, what's the point of doing this now? That's quite weird. But no, the irrepressible show-off in me has meant that, no, I will keep doing it. But it was very odd not having mum to

• 51:53Speaker 00

  sort of do it for, really, because I sort of thought she was the most important person to be doing it for. She really loved, she did really love it. She, she wasn't too embarrassing about it, but I know that she did quite enjoy telling her mates, oh, you know, you know, you might want to turn on to, have I got news this evening because Mel's on the show? You know, it wasn't embarrassing, but I know that she did, she enjoyed it.

• 52:18Elizabeth Day?

  So Rosemary Mel had provided me with a seamless link to your final failure, which is also to do with a VHS tape.

• 52:24Speaker 00

  That blooming VHS tape.

• 52:25Elizabeth Day?

  Okay, it's a failure to return a video to Wizard Video on Harrow Road.

• 52:30Speaker 00

  Still exists. Wizard is still there.

• 52:33Elizabeth Day?

  And for how long did you fail to return it, Mel?

• 52:35Speaker 00

  Four years.

• 52:36Elizabeth Day?

  Okay.

• 52:37Speaker 00

  Four years. So I'll set the scene. It was a film, I've never seen it, I've never seen it.

• 52:42Elizabeth Day?

  You didn't even watch it?

• 52:43Speaker 00

  Never even watched it. It was called Chain Reaction and it was a nineties film starring Rachel Weisz, who was at university with us, with Sue and myself.

• 52:54Elizabeth Day?

  Were you friends?

• 52:55Speaker 00

  Sue was quite good pals with Rachel. I knew her and admired her. You know, she's incredible. She's an Oscar winner, an Oscar winner. Imagine that.

• 53:05Elizabeth Day?

  And wasn't she dating Sam Mendes at the time, who's also an Oscar winner? Was he at uni with, were you friends with him?

• 53:09Speaker 00

  No, I wasn't friends, but he was doing a postgrad, I think, when I was there. So I sort of knew, I knew who he was. And he was this, already this kind of, you know, big figure, theatre director, whatever. Anyway, now this is not going to show me off in a good light, but I'm going to say it, I'm going to come clean and say that Chain Reaction was not, not a great film.

• 53:34Elizabeth Day?

  Okay.

• 53:35Speaker 00

  And was not known to be, you know, a great film. So I had rented this video in the spirit of, ha, ha, this is a, this is a bit of a turkey.

• 53:49Elizabeth Day?

  That glamorous, talented contemporary of mine.

• 53:51Speaker 00

  Awful. Schadenfreude.

• 53:53Elizabeth Day?

  So relatable.

• 53:54Speaker 00

  Schadenfreude. Isn't that awful? And Rachel, if you're watching or listening, I do apologise.

• 54:00Elizabeth Day?

  She's regularly, just every single week, she's a loyal listener and viewer.

• 54:03Speaker 00

  And she's fine. We all know she's fine because she's gone on to have an Oscar-winning career.

• 54:09Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 54:10Speaker 00

  But this was almost kind of going, ha, ha, ha, ha, there's this really rubbish film that Rachel's in. Isn't that awful?

• 54:16Elizabeth Day?

  No, it's relatable. It's relatable. But you never watched it as well. So why did you never watch it? Because you felt too bad?

• 54:24Speaker 00

  I felt guilty. I felt guilty.

• 54:25Elizabeth Day?

  That's adorable.

• 54:26Speaker 00

  I felt guilty.

• 54:27Elizabeth Day?

  Okay.

• 54:28Speaker 00

  Because I'd done it in a spirit of, ha, ha, ha, look at this, and then I couldn't watch it.

• 54:31Elizabeth Day?

  Okay.

• 54:32Speaker 00

  So it sat in the corner of the living room, just for months and months and months, weeks, months, months, and then years, years went by.

• 54:40Elizabeth Day?

  Just haunting you.

• 54:41Speaker 00

  Haunting. As an awful thing to have done in the first place. What a, what a horrible thing.

• 54:48Elizabeth Day?

  But you're also probably thinking about Rachel Weisz way more than you would have done had you not taken the video.

• 54:52Speaker 00

  Exactly, exactly. Oh, and it got to year two and I thought, right, I'm gonna have, and of course, totally kiboshed our ability to go and rent another video. And Wizard was round the corner on the Harrow Road. It was our absolute go-to. Couldn't ever step foot in there because of Chain Reaction. It got to two years and I thought, right, I'm going to face up to this. I'm going to just go in there, bold as brass. I actually had the video in my hand, went into Wizard, did an about turn, straight back, put the, put the, put the VHS back. Anyway, it got to four years. This is the truth. I was already doing light lunch. So I was thinking, okay, I'm earning a bit of money now. Whatever happens,

• 55:33Speaker 00

  I will pay that fine. And also, I was probably feeling a bit better about myself in terms of mid-work.

• 55:40Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 55:41Speaker 00

  Because we were doing light lunch and I was thinking, okay, Rachel, you're, you're doing great. I'm all right. I'm doing okay now. So I'll take Chain Reaction. Back into Wizard Video. Anyway, I went in and I just totally just plonked it on the counter and the guy looked and got into the computer and his face was, was steely and stern. And I thought, this is going to be bad. And he said, that'll be four hundred pounds, please.

• 56:09Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 56:10Speaker 00

  It was a quid a day. It was probably about, actually, no, was it four hundred days? No, it was way more.

• 56:16Elizabeth Day?

  No, it was four years.

• 56:17Speaker 00

  It was four years.

• 56:18Elizabeth Day?

  He gave you a discount.

• 56:19Speaker 00

  That was quite good.

• 56:20Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah, four hundred pounds.

• 56:21Speaker 00

  Four hundred quid. He sort of rounded it up. Four years, four hundred quid.

• 56:25Elizabeth Day?

  You've still never watched it, I'm presuming?

• 56:26Speaker 00

  Still never watched it.

• 56:27Elizabeth Day?

  This is the most amazing story for so many reasons, but I think it's so important. No one ever talks about it. No one ever admits it. We all have those semi-personal, semi-professional nemeses.

• 56:41Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 56:42Elizabeth Day?

  Who in many ways are like great friends and mentors to us because they identify the thing that we want or the thing that we think that we're lacking.

• 56:49Speaker 00

  But, but what's ludicrous about it though, Elizabeth, is me and Rachel Weisz. I mean, there's no competi, we're not, I'm never going to be in that kind of.

• 56:59Elizabeth Day?

  Well, it's never too late.

• 57:01Speaker 00

  There's no, there's no area which we cross over and I kind of think, oh, you know, she, she stole that job from me. It's just, it's utterly foolish.

• 57:12Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah, but they've become symbolic of so much else. Have you ever crossed paths with her?

• 57:18Speaker 00

  I saw her the other day.

• 57:19Elizabeth Day?

  Stop it. Wait, what was the context for seeing her?

• 57:21Speaker 00

  I saw her the other day. We've never discussed this. We've never discussed this. She knows nothing about the Chain Reaction, four hundred pounds saga. It turns out that I have a goddaughter who attends the same school as, as Rachel, as Rachel's. And I was there to do a, it was to do with a fun day thing. Anyway, we were all there together and I was doing a bit of emceeing.

• 57:47Elizabeth Day?

  Okay.

• 57:48Speaker 00

  And I was doing some emceeing and then looked round.

• 57:50Elizabeth Day?

  Who's got us now?

• 57:51Speaker 00

  And then, who's got the microphone now, Rachel? Anyway, doing that way. And I did a double take. There she was, just giving me the most enormous supportive smile and waving. And I'd.

• 58:04Elizabeth Day?

  That's lovely.

• 58:06Speaker 00

  Little does she know, little does she know about Chain Reaction.

• 58:11Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, man.

• 58:12Speaker 00

  This was literally two weeks ago at the time of recording.

• 58:14Elizabeth Day?

  Okay.

• 58:15Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I just thought, oh, god, I love you. I absolutely love you. Shame on me, Elizabeth Day.

• 58:21Elizabeth Day?

  What an incredible story. Have you ever told this story before?

• 58:23Speaker 00

  No.

• 58:24Elizabeth Day?

  What a tale.

• 58:25Speaker 00

  And by the way, there's a lovely little coda, if that's the right word.

• 58:30Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 58:31Speaker 00

  So four hundred quid. I literally felt, again, Didcot Parkway. It's Didcot Parkway or Didcot Sharkway. I felt the, the bowels just kind of go, go, go, go. I just thought, four hundred pounds. And it's that thing of spending four hundred pounds on that. What a total waste of money. Also, four hundred pounds in nineteen ninety-eight or whenever it was.

• 58:54Elizabeth Day?

  I'd ask for that.

• 58:55Speaker 00

  Nineteen ninety-nine. That was a lot. That was a lot. It's a lot of money today. It was a hell of a lot of money then. I think the guy took pity and he said, don't worry about it.

• 59:05Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, now, isn't that a positive Chain Reaction?

• 59:10Speaker 00

  Aye.

• 59:12Elizabeth Day?

  That's amazing. So you didn't have to pay four hundred pounds, but you learnt a valuable lesson. Now, just, just quickly, you mentioned light lunch there, which I loved.

• 59:20Speaker 00

  Oh, bless you.

• 59:21Elizabeth Day?

  And I read this thing about how you used to get a lot of fan letters.

• 59:25Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 59:26Elizabeth Day?

  Breastfeeding mothers, students and prisoners.

• 59:29Speaker 00

  A lot of prisoners.

• 59:30Elizabeth Day?

  And you always wrote back to the prisoners.

• 59:32Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 59:33Elizabeth Day?

  Why?

• 59:34Speaker 00

  Well, A, it was lovely to get some attention and I sort of, I think we felt that it was a kind of, it was a, I can't use the word cult. Cult is very good for, for, for many reasons. It's a sort of blanket to say, not many viewers. It was a cult audience of, as you rightly say, students, breastfeeding mums, kids that bunked off. I get a lot of people now, adults, that say, oh, we used to love watching light lunch, kids bunking off school and also prisoners. So I felt, you know, the, the mailbag was, was quite light and quite slim. So everyone got a reply.

• 1:00:10Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, so across the board, it wasn't just the prisoners?

• 1:00:12Speaker 00

  Yes. We tried to respond. Sue was always much better at doing the old technology. So there were, there were some chatroom forums back in the day. I had nothing to do with them because I didn't know how to work a computer, but Sue was a bit more technologically advanced.

• 1:00:27Elizabeth Day?

  Okay.

• 1:00:28Speaker 00

  So she was more sort of.

• 1:00:29Elizabeth Day?

  Been such a delight. Thank you for, for being such a warm, entertaining, giving guest and human. It has meant so much to me that you've come on How to Fail.

• 1:00:42Speaker 00

  Well, right back at you. Honestly, all the, all the above. And thank you for letting me witter on. And it's good to get the Chain Reaction story out there. I feel lighter.

• 1:00:55Elizabeth Day?

  Good.

• 1:00:56Speaker 00

  And I also feel I must go and check a streamer and see if it's on because I haven't got a VHS player anymore. Even though Wizard Video are still up and running, I'm not sure they have that video anymore. So.

• 1:01:07Elizabeth Day?

  Okay. Well, once you've watched Chain Reaction, come back and tell us what you thought.

• 1:01:11Speaker 00

  I'll write a review.

• 1:01:12Elizabeth Day?

  Thank you. Please do follow How to Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.