My Husband Divorced Me Because I Watched Porn

On today’s episode, we hear about: · A wife trying to overcome her feelings of guilt following a painful divorce · A man wondering if he should go back to living in his car · A man unsure how to support his best friend after a devastating diagnosis Next Steps:📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🔴 Get 15% off with code DELONY at Bon Charge. 🌿 Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 🥤 Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi. 💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne. 🏋️ Go to Trainwell to get started! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  I'm recently divorced. He found out I was looking at porn and he said, "Well, I wouldn't have cheated had you been, you know, giving yourself physically to me."

• 0:13Dr. John Delony?

  That's stupid.

• 0:14Speaker 00

  My ex-husband is very angry with me and I know that his family is too.

• 0:18Dr. John Delony?

  Why? Hold on. Why? I think you're so blinded by the gaslights. They're so bright.

• 0:28Dr. John Delony?

  What's going on everybody? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Thanks for joining us. Talking about your mental and emotional health and your marriage. Taking calls from all over the planet. Can't do anything about what's going on in the news. Can't do much about, much of anything, but we can begin to acknowledge the person we see in the mirror. We can be present for our families. We can figure out what's the next right move for ourselves. And that's what this show's about. People pulling up a seat at the table and just saying, "Hey man, I'm struggling." And my promise is I'll sit with you. If you want to be on the show, reach out, John Deloney, D E L O N Y, johndeloney.com/ask, A S K. Love

• 1:10Dr. John Delony?

  to have you on the show. Billings, Montana. Let's talk to Ann. What's up, Ann?

• 1:15Speaker 00

  Hi, thank you for having me on.

• 1:18Dr. John Delony?

  Of course. What's going on?

• 1:19Speaker 00

  Um, so I'm recently divorced and, um, I'm a crier, so just FYI.

• 1:26Dr. John Delony?

  I'm a crier too. I'm a crier too. So good.

• 1:29Speaker 00

  I'm good at crying at people, so, um, anyways, I, uh, I'm recently divorced. I was with my ex-husband for 18 years and married for eight. And, um, I guess my, I guess the ultimate question is, is I did look at porn during my marriage and I feel immensely guilty and horrible. Um, like I let my son down. Like I let myself down and my marriage down. And so I don't know how to cope with moving forward from that.

• 2:04Dr. John Delony?

  Are you pegging pornography as, as the reason you're not married anymore?

• 2:10Speaker 00

  Well, I, that's what my ex-husband told me, but I also know in reality, I walked in on him with another woman in our bedroom.

• 2:20Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Let's, let's start there.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, he stepped out on me, I think, at least eight times that I know of in our relationship.

• 2:34Speaker 00

  And I like to call it, I have like the major ostrich effect, where I just buried my head in the sand. I just turned a blind eye to a lot of things, but um, I'll go ahead.

• 2:48Dr. John Delony?

  The straw, that's not the straw that broke the camel's back. You coming up for, for air is not the straw that broke the camel's back.

• 2:58Dr. John Delony?

  You saying no more is not the straw that broke the camel's back.

• 3:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, he, he found out I was looking at porn and he said, well, I wouldn't have cheated had you been, you know, giving yourself emotionally, physically to me.

• 3:14Dr. John Delony?

  That's stupid. That's stupid. Were, were you, were you using other tools?

• 3:24Dr. John Delony?

  Besides coming to the table with your husband and saying, I'm not okay with living a life where I have, where I'm dead in my own skin. Did you, did you pull off to the side of the road? Yep, you did.

• 3:40Dr. John Delony?

  And I recommend that, having the secrets inside of a house, right? Like going elsewhere for that, the feeling a lot, that feeling of aliveness? No, I wouldn't. But for somebody to say, you did this, so I went and did something? Nonsense. He made a grown up choice over and over and over and over again.

• 4:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I feel horrible about it though, like horrible.

• 4:09Dr. John Delony?

  Go beneath the pornography.

• 4:13Dr. John Delony?

  Do you feel, do you feel horrible that?

• 4:19Dr. John Delony?

  You didn't tell him the truth for 20 years?

• 4:21Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 4:22Dr. John Delony?

  Do you feel horrible that you were worth more than putting your head in the sand?

• 4:28Dr. John Delony?

  Are you, do you feel horrible that you don't trust yourself because you knew for all these years what was going on and you chose not to do anything about it? Because I think, I think you feel horrible, potentially, maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's all about pornography, I just don't think so. You violated your own moral compass when it comes to pornography, fine, and you're allowed to feel guilty, we're all, guilt is a good emotion. It signals us when we have violated one of our own internal values. And if that's a value you violated, cool, feel guilty. But don't you dare peg the, the collapse of your marriage on that one thing.

• 5:07Dr. John Delony?

  Similarly, flip it around. If he was looking at pornography, which would put him 90 plus percent of all men in America, and you cheated on him eight different times with eight different men.

• 5:22Dr. John Delony?

  If you looked at him and said, "Hey, this is your fault."

• 5:27Dr. John Delony?

  Come on.

• 5:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know in reality, like, I can see, I can see that writing on the wall, and I do know, you're, you're right, I, I think, I just, I know it's gonna come up as my son grows up, and I know that.

• 5:46Speaker 00

  He's my ex-husband is very angry with me, and I know that his family is too.

• 5:50Dr. John Delony?

  Why? Hold on, why? I think you're so blinded by the gaslights, they're so bright. He cheated on you eight times, he had sex with eight different people.

• 6:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:04Dr. John Delony?

  Call, call me crazy, that is a different level of betrayal. In my book it is.

• 6:12Speaker 00

  It is.

• 6:12Dr. John Delony?

  It's a cosmic different level.

• 6:17Speaker 00

  He said it was me stepping out ultimately on him as well because I wasn't wanting to be physical with him because I was scared of, I didn't know who he was with, therefore I wasn't wanting to have relations often with him at all.

• 6:33Dr. John Delony?

  Hold on, stop, stop, stop, stop. Are you crazy? You're not crazy. I don't want to say you're crazy. I'm saying that in a loving way. Like, if we were sitting together, you would see me smiling. So, if nothing else on this call, let me tell you, you're not nuts. No, if every time I had sex with my wife, I was worried about getting a disease,

• 6:56Dr. John Delony?

  getting sick, not being able to be there for my son down the road, having to go to the doctor and go through insanely invasive checkups. Like, and? Like, this guy has... Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Let's say, just for devil's advocate, this is 100% your fault. And because you didn't want to have sex with him, he felt licensed to go sleep with eight other people. By the way, that's the number you know. You know it's more than that. I know it's more than that.

• 7:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:41Dr. John Delony?

  Do you have the power to force him into another woman's bed? Do you have that kind of power?

• 7:50Speaker 00

  No.

• 7:51Dr. John Delony?

  No. Do you even have the power, when you were married, to spend money like you wanted to?

• 7:56Speaker 00

  No.

• 7:56Dr. John Delony?

  Did you even have the power to parent like you wanted to, to drive what you wanted to drive? No. You've never had that kind of power in this relationship. And because he's embarrassed, his own family is looking at him and saying, "Your marriage fell apart." Because he's a lying coward, he figured out how to take all of...

• 8:22Dr. John Delony?

  Just the mountain of things he did to violate your trust, to violate your relationship, to violate your safety, to violate being a good male role model for your son. He did all that and just handed it to you. And because you've always carried that lack of power, you decided to pick this one up too. Here's what I hear. And again, divorce is catastrophic. People blow it off. It is catastrophic. It's awful. It's awful. But listen to me, sister. You are free.

• 8:59Speaker 00

  I know that. And I'm happy in that sense. But I'm also, I wake up and I just feel this immense sadness all the time.

• 9:08Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, tell me about the sadness. Tell me about it.

• 9:12Speaker 00

  Well, I feel, again, like I just let my son down and...

• 9:18Dr. John Delony?

  Let me just, let me free you from that. This is gonna sound nuts, what I say. I know many men who are exceptional parents, good, loving fathers, and they struggle with pornography. Your husband blew up your marriage, period.

• 9:40Speaker 00

  Yeah. That sadness, though, I feel so immensely. And I see him, my ex-husband, and he's now with the girl that I walked in on him with. And they have a child now. And they look like they're thriving. And I'm just here, I feel so lost.

• 9:58Dr. John Delony?

  Were you thriving under him?

• 10:00Speaker 00

  No.

• 10:01Dr. John Delony?

  No. Okay, then exhale. It's all a social media mirage. And you're right to be heartbroken. You're right to understand the ramifications of a young boy growing up in a single mother home. You're right. It's gonna be tough for him. And you're gonna need to get some mentors. You're gonna need to surround him with men who are actually decent human beings.

• 10:25Dr. John Delony?

  But you going around and beating yourself up because you escaped from a wildly unsafe relationship is not going to help him. You being heartbroken and sad, "I wanted you to have a stable home and I married, I made a child with somebody who lacked such basic common decency and integrity." Even when he did choose to be a serial cheater and repeatedly put your mother, your mommy at risk, "I tried to keep this thing together because I believed in my guts, having a two-parent household was going to be better for you in the long run." And that just didn't, it didn't work out, I'm sorry. I'm heartbroken.

• 11:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:07Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 11:08Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 11:12Dr. John Delony?

  Sometimes, sometimes, well, I don't want to go down that road. Like, I guess I'm just heartbroken because this was an incredibly emotionally abusive and manipulative relationship. And for some reason, not for some reason, I know why, but I'm trying to be over the top a little bit, okay? For some reason, you have framed a picture of your husband and you still invite him to dinner every night to speak in on how you're cooking, how you're raising your boy, how you look, how you feel.

• 11:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:44Dr. John Delony?

  And that, that guy never deserved that voice into your life. And he especially doesn't now. And who gives five bags of farts what his family thinks about you?

• 11:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think it's so embarrassing.

• 12:02Dr. John Delony?

  What, what's embarrassing? That your husband sucks and you escaped?

• 12:06Speaker 00

  Well, he's, the fact that he's just told everybody about it and then just, I don't know, I go to-

• 12:13Dr. John Delony?

  Hold on, hold on, like, let's dig into that. Who's everybody?

• 12:15Speaker 00

  He's told friends of ours, mutual friends of ours, he's, um, like, my son plays football and he was the coach and he had told several people on the team about it and-

• 12:27Dr. John Delony?

  Did you tell them about all, all the, all the people he cheated with?

• 12:30Speaker 00

  No, I have not.

• 12:32Dr. John Delony?

  No, did he?

• 12:33Speaker 00

  Oh, no, he didn't. No.

• 12:36Dr. John Delony?

  And so all you have to do is smile and say, "He is a pathological liar and I'm moving on with my life because I know I'm a good mom and I know I did every single solitary thing I could do to keep that stupid marriage together." And then I'm walking away.

• 12:53Dr. John Delony?

  And I know that sounds easy, and I know your other circles. Because by the way, a guy who is deceitful in that way to his wife and to his son is deceitful with the other coaches. He's deceitful with his friends, he's deceitful with his family. Listen, and they know.

• 13:13Dr. John Delony?

  They know. There's the occasion that somebody has a long-term affair or a one-night-stand and it stuns everybody. Someone who's a serial cheater, they all know. All their wives feel uncomfortable when he's around, they know. The husbands know that he's kind of eyeballing their wife or their daughters. They know, everybody knows.

• 13:33Speaker 00

  Right. When we went... Oh, I'm sorry.

• 13:35Dr. John Delony?

  No, go ahead, go ahead.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  When we went to mediation, the first time, because I had to beg him to do it because he kept saying he didn't want the divorce, but eventually we got to mediation and at the end of it, it was like a nine-hour, nine-and-a-half-hour day, the mediator said, "He's just a spoiled brat and a bully, good luck." And I know that I could see all these things and everybody's pointing out that kind of behavior to me. And it's just, I don't know, these blinders are on and I... I just, it's wild. I don't know how to cope, I don't know how to move forward in a healthy way.

• 14:10Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Tell me about your dad.

• 14:12Speaker 00

  Um, my dad is the best man I've ever met.

• 14:15Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. What makes him the best man you've ever met?

• 14:19Speaker 00

  He is a constant, he is strong and kind and protective of his family, loves this unconditionally.

• 14:29Dr. John Delony?

  Have you sat down and said, "Dad, my husband had eight affairs that he's admitted to and God knows however many else"?

• 14:38Speaker 00

  Oh, my dad knows.

• 14:40Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 14:42Dr. John Delony?

  And is your dad known that his daughter looked at porn too?

• 14:45Speaker 00

  Yes, I was at first with it all.

• 14:47Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. And did your dad get up from his side of the table and come over and give you a hug and say, "I love you"?

• 14:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:53Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, then let that be true.

• 14:57Dr. John Delony?

  In those moments when you don't believe in yourself, and by the way, this grief is heavy, and the grief makes everything dark outside.

• 15:06Dr. John Delony?

  All of us, myself included, need people we trust and we love to say, "I know that you don't see the light, but it's light out here, follow me."

• 15:17Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 15:18Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. And you're not a spoiled brat. And so you also trust your dad that if you had been in the wrong, he would have said, "I'm so sorry, honey. You blew this thing up. I love you. I'll sit with you." And he didn't do that, did he?

• 15:30Speaker 00

  No.

• 15:31Dr. John Delony?

  No.

• 15:33Dr. John Delony?

  Because he's a respectable man.

• 15:36Speaker 00

  He is. Definitely that.

• 15:37Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So in these moments, I guess if you get nothing from this call, you're not crazy. You didn't blow this thing up. Did you violate your own core value? Yeah, we all do.

• 15:50Dr. John Delony?

  And we all wonder if we're worthy of being loved. And thank God you have somebody. Many people have nobody. You've got at least one person that looks up and says, "No, no, no, no, no. You're my daughter. You're worth being loved."

• 16:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:04Dr. John Delony?

  And you choosing to respect yourself and keep yourself safe was not a violation of your marriage contract.

• 16:12Dr. John Delony?

  It's you being human. It's you being smart. You being wise. Here's what we're going to do next. I'm going to give you a copy of Building a Non-Anxious Life as my gift to you, okay? I'm going to send, we're going to mail it out to you.

• 16:24Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 16:25Dr. John Delony?

  The other thing I'm going to give you is I work here at Ramsey Solutions and I'm going to send you our flagship

• 16:33Dr. John Delony?

  product, which is to help people get control of their finances. As a single mom, that's a terrifying proposition for you. I know that.

• 16:40Dr. John Delony?

  Having a guy who cheated on you so many times over so many years, still drag you through nine hours of mediation, blaming you the whole way,

• 16:50Dr. John Delony?

  is a four-year-old emotionally. And that tells me that you have been squashed financially, too. Is that right?

• 16:58Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh.

• 16:59Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So I'm going to send you the financial products, too. I'm going to send you every dollar of the app. You can begin to gain control of it. I'm going to send you all nine lessons. They're digital videos. I'm in one of them. And my colleagues are in all of them. And I want you to watch them. How old's your son?

• 17:15Speaker 00

  He's nine.

• 17:16Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome. Have him watch them, too. Watch them with mom.

• 17:21Dr. John Delony?

  And here's what you're going to get to, he's going to get to see. He's going to get a ringside seat to watching an adult, a mother who he knows loves him, slowly regain her footing. And here's what I think you're going to find. You'll feel like you're drowning, but what you don't realize is the water you're standing in is about nine inches deep.

• 17:41Dr. John Delony?

  And you're gonna slowly begin to learn some skills financially. You're gonna learn some skills relationally. That's why I'm gonna send you my book for free. And you're gonna slowly start to stand up and realize, oh, my gosh, this water's around my ankles.

• 17:55Dr. John Delony?

  And it is going to feel super awkward making decisions on your own because you've never been allowed to do that. Okay, just expect it. It's gonna feel weird and hard. And you're gonna feel like, I don't know, what's the next right move? What's the next? I don't know, what's the next right move? Make it. And then if it's the wrong one, go, ah, I blew that one.

• 18:13Dr. John Delony?

  And then we're gonna keep moving forward. Is that, you get what I'm saying?

• 18:16Speaker 00

  Yes. Yes, 100%. I work two jobs now, so, yeah.

• 18:20Dr. John Delony?

  You know why? Cause you're a good mom.

• 18:25Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 18:26Dr. John Delony?

  Because you have high integrity. Because you can do math. You know, we need more money now.

• 18:32Dr. John Delony?

  Now, last thing before I let you go. You've probably heard me do this on the show before. I want you to do it for everybody listening, but especially for yourself, okay? I want you to make a fist with the hand that you write with.

• 18:45Dr. John Delony?

  Are you doing that right now?

• 18:46Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 18:47Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you to put that right in the middle of your chest.

• 18:53Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you to say out loud, while you slowly tap your chest, I love this woman.

• 19:02Dr. John Delony?

  Nope, say it loud and proud, sister.

• 19:05Speaker 00

  I love this woman.

• 19:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. This is day one. This is the day one where you start loving you through action too, okay?

• 19:15Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 19:16Dr. John Delony?

  You're gonna watch these videos. You're gonna read the books. You're gonna go see a counselor. But I believe in you, and you call me anytime, and I'll give you any resource I got, and I'll walk alongside you anytime. And if you know of some other resource, I'm gonna send you all the questions for humans for parents and kids and parents and friends too. I want you to begin to use these with your nine-year-old. Cause here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna build connection from the inside out. We're gonna have breakfast together with that little nine, like nine-year-old, and we're gonna use these questions for humans, and we're gonna slowly develop internal relationship. He's gonna love the chocolate chip cookies and the chaos at his dad's house and the four-wheelers and the jet skis. But his nervous system will know, when I go see mom, I'm safe. I'm loved and I'm known. Thanks for the call, sister. Coming up next, we talk to a man who is thinking about being homeless again.

• 20:02Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, it's time for a quick word about Delete Me. Does anyone else feel like our digital footprints are starting to feel more like digital trails, leading people right back to us? And now scammers are using phishing attacks with a PH, where they try to trick you into giving them something by pretending to know you and be your friend and be all trying to help you out. And you get an email, or a text, or a phone call, and the person or the AI bot on the other end sounds like someone who's looking out for you. They're not. With the new technological advancements, no one is really safe. So what's any of us to do? You can start by controlling what you can. You can learn about how to be careful offline and online, and you can sign up with Delete Me.

• 20:46Dr. John Delony?

  I use and recommend Delete Me because they work in the background to reduce my online presence. That way, I don't have to worry about creepy data brokers having all of my data and trying to sell it to each other. Delete Me has reviewed over tens of thousands of sites for me, and they've removed my data from hundreds of them, which has saved me countless hours and a ton of stress. Stop phishing attacks. Stop online harassment and threats before they start. And take control of your digital privacy with Delete Me. Go to joindelete.me/deloney today for 20% off their annual plan. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month. That's join, J-O-I-N, delete.me/deloney.

• 21:32Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, here's a quick word about the best mattress in the world: Helix mattresses. Spring is here, and that means the darkness and the cold has finally lifted, and we can get back into the swing of actually being living human beings. Spring breaks, summer plans, I feel like I'm coming back to life. So listen, let's reset. Most of us have already blown our resolutions out of the water. Let's reset and make today day one for a great year. And the top of the list of the reset: great sleep. Great sleep is the foundation for everything in our lives, and this is where my friends at Helix come in clutch. I've slept on everything, cheap mattresses. Bad hotel mattresses, hunting camp sleep pads, overpriced mattresses, you name it.

• 22:17Dr. John Delony?

  But when I switched to my Helix mattress, everything changed. I fall asleep faster, I fall asleep deeper, and I wake up feeling restored, rested, and ready to rock and roll. And because every person is different, Helix has a mattress designed just for you. Side sleeper, back sleeper, sleep hot, sleep cold, your spine need a little extra care. Whatever it is, Helix mattresses have got you covered. You can take the Helix sleep quiz just like I did. It takes less than two minutes, and you get online and they'll help you find the perfect mattress for you. Plus, Helix gives you 100 nights to try it out risk-free. Right now, my audience gets 27% off site-wide, plus a free bedding bundle with any Lux or Elite mattress purchase.

• 22:59Dr. John Delony?

  Go to helixsleep.com/daloni, and if you get a post-purchase survey, tell them you heard about it on this show. Go to helixsleep.com/daloni. With Helix, better sleep, start right now.

• 23:14Dr. John Delony?

  All right, Columbia, South Carolina, let's talk to Asher. What's up, Asher?

• 23:18Speaker 02

  Hey, Dr. John, it's super wild to be talking to you right now. This is amazing.

• 23:21Dr. John Delony?

  It's wild to be talking to you, brother. Appreciate your call, man. What's up?

• 23:25Speaker 02

  Cool deal. So, I guess my concise version of the question is, would it be wrong or like a bad, such a bad thing to make enough money to just afford cheap food and gasoline and just live in my car again? And I'll elaborate on that in a little bit if you...

• 23:47Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I'd love to dig in. Just on its face, I mean, I wouldn't judge that as good or bad. I might judge that as wise or unwise, or smart or dumb, but I wouldn't categorize that as a moral issue. Tell me what you're thinking.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, so um, uh, last month I was uh, in between living situations for about two weeks. And uh,

• 24:10Dr. John Delony?

  What does that mean?

• 24:10Speaker 02

  The options were like, either spend a bunch of money.

• 24:12Dr. John Delony?

  What does that mean?

• 24:13Speaker 02

  Uh, uh, just like, uh, the lease on my other place ended before the next one started.

• 24:18Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 24:18Speaker 02

  So, uh, you know, nowhere to go for just a little bit. Not, not super long, just like two weeks and all that. But the options were, uh, uh, either get like a hotel and pay the two week, uh, pay two weeks of that. Or just live in my car for that period of time. And I chose the latter. And, you know, people kinda, I guess, maybe are like, like fear that and stuff like that. It was not that bad at all. It, it wasn't, it wasn't that bad, really. And, um, you know, I just, um, I'm in my new apartment now. And it's, it's a pretty nice place in the city and everything like that. Um, but I'm kinda like ruminating on, like during those two weeks, I felt like I was just kinda living in a box, like parking lot to parking lot.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  And now it just kinda feels like I'm living in a slightly bigger box, but paying a whole bunch of money for it.

• 25:08Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  Uh, does that make sense?

• 25:10Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, totally. So, how old are you?

• 25:14Speaker 02

  I'm 26.

• 25:15Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, cool. Um,

• 25:16Speaker 02

  No, no family, no family or anything.

• 25:18Dr. John Delony?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  No one depending on me.

• 25:19Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Well, no, uh, yeah.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  If I did have people that, if I, if I did have dependents, this would be a completely different story, but it's not, so.

• 25:25Dr. John Delony?

  Absolutely. Um, I think, I think the balance for 26 year olds and for 36 year olds, and, and I'm especially talking to people who aren't married and who don't have children, dependents. It's a tough balance to begin to do things that will honor future you.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 25:46Dr. John Delony?

  When you have a seat with 50 year old you, will he be glad that you're not married, that you don't have any kids, that you don't have any dependents, that you haven't done this thing that the research says, makes you quote unquote, less happy, which is a stupid metric in the short term, but that gives you purpose and meaning for all of the rest of your life. And let's, let's cross our fingers that you've got 70 more years left. 60 more years left. Um, or do we do the next convenient thing, or the next easy thing, or the next opt out thing? But just because we can. Here's a good example. Let's take, let's take living in a car off the table. 26, you're working, you have a good job?

• 26:27Speaker 02

  I had a good job. I'm kinda in between my like career path right now. I have a background in software sales.

• 26:34Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  But the thing is, I'm like, I'm three years out of college and I've blown through five of those jobs in the course of three years.

• 26:42Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 26:43Speaker 02

  And I've just, during that time, I've just been doing like little odd jobs, like little things on Craigslist that people need done, driving DoorDash, like just any little thing. And during my time in like software sales and stuff like that,

• 27:01Speaker 02

  I would just like, I would go to work, get up at the same time and like kinda just grind it out to be to be able to like, you know, keep the lights on, pay rent and stuff like that. And I don't really have that high of standards. I don't really need a whole lot. So like, I just, I've been in the state of mind right now where it's just like, like, okay, like, like, like you get up and do all that, like, like, why? You don't, you don't need it.

• 27:26Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  And you clearly don't like.

• 27:29Dr. John Delony?

  I was gonna say, that same thing applies for you right now with lifting weights. Like, why? I'm not playing football. I'm not a college athlete. I'm not fighting anybody. Why? And your 60-year-old self, whose hip has degenerated,

• 27:48Dr. John Delony?

  and I've gotta do 40 years with artificial hips or I can't move, and my health is falling off a cliff,

• 27:56Dr. John Delony?

  is gonna say, man, I wish you had of.

• 27:59Dr. John Delony?

  And so, you're right. Doing the calculation right now, you have no responsibilities and you have no purpose.

• 28:06Dr. John Delony?

  And so, when you are absent those two things, which by the way, this is a cultural issue. This is not an Asher issue, man, so I'm not coming at you. Like, you are, you are asking the questions that everyone should be asking right now.

• 28:19Dr. John Delony?

  The job market is chaos. They told us a bill of goods going to college is going to solve all of our problems. That if you just get this degree, and you probably listened, a job in STEM, cool, great.

• 28:31Speaker 02

  That's exactly what I did, yeah.

• 28:32Dr. John Delony?

  You're like, this sucks. I keep getting laid off. I keep getting fired. I keep, whatever. The, I'm just gonna tell you right now, the greatest gift you could give 27-year-old Asher, the greatest gift you could give 37-year-old Asher, the greatest gift you could give 77-year-old Asher, is not stuff. So the question about should I live in my car, I could give you all the data on how your amygdala functions in an unsafe environment. It feels cool to take a two-week vacation and go camping. I would never recommend anyone pack up and move to the woods. Right? That comes at a cost.

• 29:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:06Dr. John Delony?

  What I'm telling, but what you felt was a, you've been living in a failure factory for the last five years since you graduated college, and it just felt good to opt out for a minute. The greatest gift you could give yourself, your 27-year-old self and on, is to go find a squat bar and get under it. And I'm not talking about a weight room. The greatest gift you can give yourself is responsibilities. The greatest gift you could give yourself is purpose. And you don't have either of those things. Responsibilities to a young adult, to somebody in their twenties and thirties, is the weightlifting for your mind, and your body, and your spirit. And so, it may be a bad quote-unquote "investment"

• 29:51Dr. John Delony?

  to have an apartment. I love the fact that you signed a contract, you gotta go do something.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:59Dr. John Delony?

  You have to. The question is, the thing you've been trying to do for five years is killing you. So let me back all the way out. Dude, what do you want to do? Or more importantly, who do you want to be?

• 30:11Speaker 02

  Oh, that's...

• 30:13Dr. John Delony?

  You're not gonna have any purpose in life. You're gonna continue to flounder until you find a place where you can contribute. And that's responsibility.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  What means would you say are the best of going about finding that thing?

• 30:28Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna send you, my buddy Ken Coleman, he's got a small book out, but the importance of the book is called, "Finding the Work You're Wired to Do." I'm gonna send it to you for free, but inside of it's got an assessment. Like, what are even, like, here I am, I've got student loan debt, I've got this, or maybe you do or don't, but I got this job, I got this degree, this thing has gone away.

• 30:48Speaker 02

  Nope, I don't have any debt or anything like that.

• 30:51Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, great, cool. So you're at Even Steven, which is awesome. And that allows you to even ask this question. Can I just opt out of the system? Of course. But my buddy Josh Milburn, he runs The Minimalist. It's not about buying stuff.

• 31:05Dr. John Delony?

  And maybe you're figuring this out before most people figured it out at 50 or 60. They got a lot of stuff and they are hollow.

• 31:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:14Dr. John Delony?

  And you're looking around, be like, "I just stuff in my car. It's kinda awesome. I could go sleep whatever parking lot I wanted, etc."

• 31:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:23Dr. John Delony?

  Like, the other stuff feels futile.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  And it seems like, I think the kind of genesis of where this all is coming from is that like,

• 31:33Speaker 02

  like, finding a meaningful career that's not only, not only something that you like doing, but is also able to support a family and like, maybe,

• 31:42Speaker 02

  maybe burn down a mortgage eventually. It's just, it's something that everybody, that everybody else is doing and it's so strange to me. It's so, it's so predictable. I don't, and, I don't know, it's very easy to get like, winded from that, the more that you think about it, I guess. And that's kinda, kinda where I've been, so.

• 32:04Dr. John Delony?

  That's a pretty audacious thing for a 26-year-old to just throw out. What do you mean?

• 32:14Speaker 02

  So, I'll give you an example. My brother and best friend are the main people that I talk to. And they're moving on with different stages of their life, getting married and all that stuff. And I see them a lot, a lot less now. And, you know, I get that. They have different priorities now and everything like that, but, it just,

• 32:35Speaker 02

  the things that they want are basically the same and I don't, none of them really sound that exciting at all.

• 32:44Dr. John Delony?

  I would say A, excitement is a horrific metric to chase.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 32:50Dr. John Delony?

  Right? Novelty and fun, I'm all about that. I like, I like excitement on the path where I'm going. But you get excitement when your team wins the championship, or you get excited when you

• 33:06Dr. John Delony?

  find a solution to something. I remember a guy, one time I was in a neighborhood and there was a bad storm and our power went out and this guy came in at 3:30 in the morning on this huge truck and he climbed up and re-did the transformer at 3:00 in the morning in the rain and he clicked it back on and I was out there with him and I said, I yelled up to him, "You just gave my family light back. Thank you." And he smiled and said, "That's what I do."

• 33:31Dr. John Delony?

  So it doesn't have to be like curing cancer.

• 33:34Speaker 02

  I understand what you're saying.

• 33:38Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, yeah, I get that.

• 33:42Dr. John Delony?

  Where does, where does, where does this cynicism come from?

• 33:48Speaker 02

  I don't know. You know, when I was a kind of late college, I used to tutor people as a side hustle and stuff like that. And it was cool, like, seeing like, I would have like, parents like review me and stuff like that. And it wasn't just like, you know, my kid has a B instead of a C now. It was like, yeah, he has a little more confidence now. It was like, kind of cool just having someone to just talk to, not only about like, school stuff, but also about like, kind of ways of thinking about things. And that was like, way more rewarding than anything that I did in like, tech sales, even though it made more money, so.

• 34:20Dr. John Delony?

  So why in the world aren't you chasing that down? What the world needs is a bunch of people who, inside, well, forget the money part, forget the fame part, forget the business part of it, um, are doing things that light them up, because that's what is going to, people are going to be attracted to that.

• 34:41Dr. John Delony?

  And if you don't know anything, if everything's just running low, right? Everything's just low. I get no joy out of anything. I get no like bleh out of everything. You gotta go sit down and talk to somebody, man.

• 34:52Speaker 02

  Like a professional?

• 34:53Dr. John Delony?

  Yes, absolutely. Hundred percent.

• 34:58Dr. John Delony?

  And you can roll your eyes, "I'm not gonna pay for a f-" I'm not- That's just, that's just a cynicism talking.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  No, I've, I've paid for it before. He's a cool guy.

• 35:05Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 35:08Dr. John Delony?

  Hang on the line here, brother. I'm gonna hook you up. Um, I don't want you to think in terms of good and bad. I want you to sit down and have an imagine- write your, write your 50-year-old self a letter. And say at 26, I made some choices.

• 35:23Dr. John Delony?

  And because I made these choices, here's your life at 50.

• 35:31Dr. John Delony?

  And I'll tell you what, I burned myself to the ground. I burned the candle all the way down in my twenties. And it almost cost me my marriage, it almost cost me friendships, it cost me a lot. And so I'm not recommending burning it like I did, but I'm often in moments of quiet and solitude, I'm really grateful for my 20-year-old self because I am living in a house built on the foundation that my 20-year-old self, when I didn't have a lot of responsibilities, man, I went all in.

• 36:02Dr. John Delony?

  I'm super grateful that when things were awkward, that I chose to go in again. And I didn't just choose to sit down and opt out of the game because I was too clever, sophisticated, or pessimistic about the whole thing.

• 36:15Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, hang on the line. I'm gonna hook you up with, with my buddy Ken's stuff and we'll get you, we'll get you connected there. I think your answer is in what you told me.

• 36:25Dr. John Delony?

  If you were my friend and we were just having a drink at a local pub, I would tell you. I think you know. And it's gonna be hard to let software sales go because that's quote-unquote who you are. It's not who you are. You're a guy that likes to sit next to people and help them find who they're supposed to be, and that's a great gift. The world needs more of that. Thanks for the call, brother. We come back, we're talking to a man who's trying to figure out what's the best way to support a friend who's going through a hard time.

• 36:50Dr. John Delony?

  Yo, listen, I understand the struggle. You're juggling work, parenting, eating right, and a million other things. You're tired, and you're wired, and exhausted, all at the same time, and you're trying to hold everything together. I get it. But, there are some small, daily choices that all of us can make to feel a little more clear-headed, and a little less anxious, so we can show up and be steady, and strong, and whole for the people we love. For me, one of those little choices I make every single day includes using Organifi juices and gummies. Organifi products are great, because they don't just support your physical health, they contribute to mental clarity and emotional balance, too.

• 37:31Dr. John Delony?

  Organifi offers a range of organic superfood blends that are super easy to fit into your daily routine, even when you're on the go. I travel a lot, and I always have Organifi travel packs with me. You just mix them with water, and they're ready to rock and roll. I love Organifi's green juice for a great start in the morning, and I love their red juice for caffeine-free energy in the morning and in the afternoon. And of course, I love the Sheila Jet, and the Creatine, and the Happy Drop gummies. I love gummies, and I love, love, healthy gummies, for a delicious take on important nutrients. Good folks, Organifi makes it simple to take proactive steps towards better health. Go to organifi.com/deloney, and use code DELONY to save 20% off. That's organifi.com/deloney.

• 38:16Dr. John Delony?

  Go check 'em out.

• 38:19Dr. John Delony?

  All right, Phoenix, Arizona, let's talk to Russell. What's up, Russell?

• 38:23Speaker 02

  Hey, Dr. John, how are you?

• 38:24Dr. John Delony?

  I'm doing great, brother. What's up with you, man?

• 38:27Speaker 02

  Oh, not much. I do, before I get into my question, I do want to just give you guys some gratitude, and say, I appreciate all you do. Um, found your show like, a year ago, and it got me through some, uh, some pretty rough stuff, so, um, I appreciate all that you do, and I'm excited to talk to you.

• 38:43Dr. John Delony?

  Man, that means, that means the world to me, brother. I'm really appreciative. Thank you so much, man.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  Awesome.

• 38:48Dr. John Delony?

  What's up?

• 38:49Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, so I wanted to call, um, so I've got one of my ride or dies fifteen plus year-long friendship. Um, he, I was in his wedding a couple of years ago and, uh, he found out probably a couple of weeks ago now that his wife has cancer and it's pretty heavy and I just want to, uh, I want to figure out how I can support him and her, obviously. Um, cause I just like, this is luckily the first time in my life that, uh, I've had someone that I know this close that has been diagnosed. Um, and I just like, I don't know how to help my friend and that's, that's really what I want to do.

• 39:29Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, man. You're a good man, dude.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  I appreciate it.

• 39:35Dr. John Delony?

  Um, tell me about this cancer. What, what does she have?

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Uh, stage four brain cancer.

• 39:40Dr. John Delony?

  Ah, gosh.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. So they did, um, they did surgery a couple of weeks ago, got a lot of it, but not all of it.

• 39:49Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 39:50Speaker 02

  Um, so they're gonna, they're gonna treat it and we'll go from there and.

• 39:54Dr. John Delony?

  What's the prognosis? Usually with, with stage four brain cancer, they can tell you, you got six months, you got max of ten years?

• 40:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I haven't asked, um, like try not to poke too much. It's like that weird, you know, like where you want to be supportive, but you like, they're going through it and they're, I mean, we're, or they're right in the thick of it. So I don't want to pry for too much information. Um,

• 40:17Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 40:18Speaker 02

  We do live like five or six hours apart. So, um, I haven't been able to see him yet, but just phone calls.

• 40:23Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So, um, I'm going to tell you the two things people have come back and told me over the course of my career that they were most grateful for when they were going through something similar.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:34Dr. John Delony?

  And one of my oldest best friends in the world, who I don't talk about on the show very often, um, he is, uh, he's in one of what I would call in the vault friends.

• 40:47Dr. John Delony?

  Um, he went through the same exact thing. And I was in his wedding and I was at his wife's funeral when she passed of brain cancer. Okay. Um, the two things that have come back repeatedly over and over, and I haven't done this perfect every time. In fact, I've screwed it up royally multiple times, is they've come back and said, nobody would ask us the hard questions and you seem unfazed and you just asked.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 41:13Dr. John Delony?

  And so what feels like you're dancing around, like I don't want to, I don't want to pry too much.

• 41:20Dr. John Delony?

  They will tell you if I'm not ready to talk about this. I don't want to talk about it.

• 41:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 41:26Dr. John Delony?

  But I remember my friend, when she got, and she was a close friend, I consider her close too. Like, man, he's one of my brothers. And when she got sick, man, I was, I was asking all kinds of questions. How much time they got? Where is it? Like, what do they do? Like, asking as many questions. And I'll tell you this, as the cancer progressed and she got closer and closer to passing away, it was made very, she was very clear, and so was her husband, hey, let's, it's not, we just want to talk about it right now. Awesome.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 41:54Dr. John Delony?

  So that was number one. And this could be as easy as, um, asking, alright, so what kind of cancer is it? And, man, what kind of prognosis are they giving you? Usually with this type of, um, stage four aggressive brain cancer, um, they will say, a home run is 10 years. Most people hit singles and they get four.

• 42:21Dr. John Delony?

  Occasionally, people get nine months, right? They'll tell you that kind of ballpark. And so asking that question directly is not out of bounds. And in fact, it can often be a relief because both of them are carrying it. And as most people who get cancer find out, they find themselves responsible for how everybody else around them feels.

• 42:39Dr. John Delony?

  And so asking those direct questions can often be a gift. Like, I'll carry some.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 42:45Dr. John Delony?

  I'm not scared of that.

• 42:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, that, that, yeah, that, I mean, that, that actually resonates pretty hard. I know, they've obviously had a bunch of family coming into town and, um, obviously, there's just a lot going on for them.

• 42:57Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  Um, this is one of the first times, like, I mean, we, like I said, he's, I mean, to use your words, one of the in-the-vault friends for sure.

• 43:05Dr. John Delony?

  Yep.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  And this is one of the first times he's called me and kind of broken down to me.

• 43:10Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  He's just first responder, ultimate tough guy, like, just awesome, awesome dude.

• 43:16Dr. John Delony?

  And let me tell you this, um, if there's any possible way you can get on a plane and go down there and see her, see him?

• 43:23Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 43:23Dr. John Delony?

  Do that. Even if you have to fly on a Friday night, only spend Saturday and fly out Sunday morning, go do that.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  Yep. Yeah, I know that. Uh, so we, he called me two Fridays ago now, um, and I, that was my first response. It was like, hey, man, I'm getting in the car. It's five hours. It's, it's not going to take me

• 43:40Dr. John Delony?

  Yep.

• 43:41Speaker 02

  very much time. Like, let's hammer out a day that works for you guys in the next week. Um, and then they, they had some additional family come in. Um, so we paused that. And then I'm actually on a work vacation right now, but I land, I go back, uh, Friday. And then, uh, I have a flight booked for the next week. They don't know I have a flight booked yet, but, um, I just, it was one of those. I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it and show up. And I think that's the right thing to do, but you know, you're just like with a situation like this. You never really know what is right and what is wrong.

• 44:12Dr. John Delony?

  Don't ask, how can I help? Just show up.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  Okay. Yeah, no, that's.

• 44:16Dr. John Delony?

  And if you send food, if you just start making, you, you put a note on yourself and you start having food delivered every Monday, they can be grown ups and throw it in the trash.

• 44:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:25Dr. John Delony?

  Um,

• 44:28Dr. John Delony?

  just show up.

• 44:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:30Dr. John Delony?

  And I, your, your buddy who's a first responder, tough guy, would be really out of, it would be out of character for him to say, hey, I need you here just to give you a hug. He's not gonna say that.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, for sure.

• 44:40Dr. John Delony?

  His wife's certainly not gonna say that. And by the way, people get flooded with family. That could not, that doesn't always mean it's a good thing. Because a whole bunch of family shows up and wants you to make them feel better. When you're dying of cancer, right?

• 44:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yep.

• 44:54Dr. John Delony?

  So sometimes showing up and be like, dude, I'm getting us out of here. I remember going to a bar and having beer out of a, I used to, I used to love this woman because she was only, she would just crush beers out of a bottle. I used to think that was the coolest thing. Um, and she was hilarious and she was amazing. And just saying, all right, we're done with all of the whiny heiny. We're all going out. We went to a social distortion concert together. Like, it was like, it, it, we went and did stuff until stuff, we couldn't do it anymore.

• 45:26Dr. John Delony?

  So that's number one.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, that, that sounds, that sounds great.

• 45:30Dr. John Delony?

  So number one is that. And number two, don't send what I call text bombs. Hey, how are you?

• 45:38Dr. John Delony?

  Um, don't send texts like, thinking about you. Pick up the stupid phone and call.

• 45:44Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 45:45Dr. John Delony?

  And don't give them another job to do. You tell me how you're doing.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 45:53Dr. John Delony?

  Just call it with a funny joke, with a funny meme, with the funny. Alright, so you got the cancers. What's up?

• 46:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:01Dr. John Delony?

  A buddy of mine recently had a quadruple bypass and he's like 48 years old.

• 46:07Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna tell you what my phone call was like with him. Deloney, is this you? Dude, I heard your heart exploded.

• 46:17Dr. John Delony?

  That's how I started the call. He started laughing so hard, I thought he was gonna have another, going to cardiac arrest again.

• 46:23Dr. John Delony?

  Now, hey, now, that's not my wife's personality, that's not everybody's personality, right? That's just how, that's me. But here's the message I sent to him. You're sick, you're going through a tough time.

• 46:36Dr. John Delony?

  I'm not suddenly gonna be like, oh, cuz I don't stitch things into pillows.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 46:41Dr. John Delony?

  I'm still gonna love you, fool me.

• 46:45Dr. John Delony?

  The last thing is, say way less than you think.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 46:51Dr. John Delony?

  Sometimes just, dude, I'm calling.

• 46:56Dr. John Delony?

  This sucks.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 47:01Dr. John Delony?

  Not, hey dude, I've been Googling and I've found there's a new, nah, none of that.

• 47:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think they're probably doing enough Googling themselves, so I don't need to, I don't need to do that.

• 47:12Dr. John Delony?

  That's right. And hey, um, do you mind if I do something? Do you mind tagging in here, Kelly?

• 47:18Speaker 03

  Of course not.

• 47:18Dr. John Delony?

  Kelly's a cancer survivor. Um, I'm, I'm rattling things off to Russell here. Anything out of bounds that I've said and be, is there anything else you wanna throw in here?

• 47:26Speaker 03

  Uh, no, so I think Russell, just to reiterate a couple of things he said that were the best, were, you know, don't ask them how they're doing.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 47:33Speaker 03

  And don't, um, ask them what you can do. Because they're so overwhelmed and nobody wants to tell somebody, here's the things that I need you to do. It's just a weird thing to say and, um, don't, the, the biggest one is, don't make them make you feel better.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  Everybody else's emotions are exhausting, especially during a time like this. They are exhausting. And so to have to make them, you know, if you go sit over there and you're boo hooing and bawling and crying and all that, excuse me, they have to take care of you and tell you how they're going to be okay and how it's going to be okay. And that's not beneficial to them at all. And it's, it's, it's just exhausting.

• 48:12Speaker 03

  Frank Talk, I had a couple that was our next door neighbor at the time when I was diagnosed. And they invited me over for coffee, sat down and they're like, all right, tell us everything about it. Cause most people don't want to know, or they don't, you know, they don't know how to say, just tell us everything. And it was very cathartic for me to be able to sit down and pour out everything that was going on. Cause most people just want to give platitudes, well-meaning, but still platitudes. So just be frank and honest about it. Cause trust me, they already know what's going on. So it's not like you're going to tiptoe around it because you don't want to say the wrong thing. They're very well aware.

• 48:45Dr. John Delony?

  And in a case like this,

• 48:50Dr. John Delony?

  nobody's going to ask them, hey, are you going to die? And sometimes that's the question they're desperate for somebody to ask them. I think that's one of the first things I asked Kelly, are you going to die? And she's like, no, John, like, and this is Kelly's personality and this is my personality.

• 49:08Dr. John Delony?

  Kelly, I can assure you, there were times when you came back to work,

• 49:15Dr. John Delony?

  that if people had heard some of your inner circles, some of the jokes we were making, they would have been very uncomfortable.

• 49:21Speaker 03

  Oh, trust, I had a whole, a whole group of people that I was like, this is so demented. How we, but it's how I processed it.

• 49:29Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 49:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. A hundred percent. Nothing is right or wrong. Whatever it takes for them to process it is what matters.

• 49:35Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, Russell, there's going to be people who are struggling with cancer, your friend, that may not be funny. Kelly and I have a mutual friend and colleague right now is going through some tough stuff. That wouldn't be a great way to handle it with that person.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, no, that, yeah, I get that.

• 49:50Dr. John Delony?

  And so that person is, you're going to handle that differently, but I think the thing is to keep true to the nature of the friendship. My oldest friend on planet earth is a paraplegic, was in a terrible car accident. And I remember me and him, I mean, me and his brother and one of our other ride or die friends. These are, these are 45 plus year friendships. Right? I remember we were in a, not a Waffle House, a, a, what's the pancake?

• 50:16Speaker 03

  IHOP.

• 50:17Dr. John Delony?

  IHOP. And we were all saying, Hey, are we gonna just stop making jokes? And I remember we're like, nope. He didn't get a pass just because he's in a wheelchair. He's still our brother, dude. And then it's like, alright, game on. And it's dude, we've gotten stopped at restaurants, we've gotten stopped at parking lots. It's been some moments they're like, alright, that's probably too far. Um, and by the way, he dishes out too. But all I have to say is this, keep the nature of your friendship whole.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, that's, I mean, that...

• 50:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, so we're like a couple of weeks into this now and that is, I have felt myself being like, dude, I don't know what to say.

• 50:56Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 50:56Speaker 02

  Um, like, nothing I can physically say is gonna make the situation any better.

• 51:03Dr. John Delony?

  No, but you, you will.

• 51:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. Your presence will. It gives me a lot of, I don't wanna say permission, but it like, gives me relief that like, just keeping, keeping our friendship going like it's gone for the last 15 years is, will bring some sort of maybe relief or distraction, if you will. Um, something like that, that will just, you know, give them a break from all that they're going through. Because yeah, that's the last thing I wanna do is, like, they don't need to make me feel better about it. Um, like, I'm sad for them, I'm sad for my friend, but the last thing I need them to do is to console me, like.

• 51:39Dr. John Delony?

  That's right. But sometimes, um, if your friends have a demented sense of humor like me and my friends do, getting online and ordering them two dozen cupcakes that have the words, you know, F cancer on them is hilarious.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:55Dr. John Delony?

  Making a demented cake is hilarious. And other times showing up with flowers and a hug, if that's the nature of your friendship and that's the person on the other end of this thing, that's who, that's who you would have been if you found out they're pregnant, that's who you would have been if you found out, you know, their mother passed away, that's who we're gonna be in this moment too.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:13Dr. John Delony?

  It's, it's when the whole identity of the friendship changes, like, oh, oh my goodness. If I walked into, I'm thinking of a friend right now who's struggling, if I just showed up at their house and was like, "Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, come here," they'd be like, "Dude, what hat, what's wrong with you?"

• 52:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:30Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 52:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:31Dr. John Delony?

  Finding ways to be yourself and inject joy into a really dark moment and not make them be the ones to make you feel, that's just it, man. So, thank you for loving your friend really well, dude, that's, that's, man, the world needs more friends like you who wanna show up and just wanna do it right. And your presence and often your silence, your presence means the world. Thank you so much, my friend.

• 52:54Dr. John Delony?

  All right, I've been talking about the benefits of red light therapy forever. And that's why I'm excited to tell you about Bond Charge. Our lives are lived almost entirely inside, under the harrowing glow of fluorescent lights and little tiny screens and medium sized screens and gigantic screens and sometimes all these screens at the same time. All of this stuff affects our mood, our sleep, our anxiety, and the studies are showing it. And this is why I love Bond Charge. Bond Charge is a world leader in red light therapy and EMF blocking gear. I use their red light therapies every single day. Red light therapy can help boost your mood, reduce stress and help with sleep. And I use my red light therapy panels, the infrared sauna blanket, the EMF mat, all of it.

• 53:39Dr. John Delony?

  And listen up, if your skin looks tired, check out Bond Charge's red light mask for skin recovery, collagen production and improved blood flow. I got the mask and it is awesome. Just wear it 10 minutes a few times a week for fresher skin and it's simple. There's no creams or appointments. It's lightweight and it's cordless. Go to bondcharge.com/deloney and use coupon code deloney to save 15%. That's B-O-N-C-H-A-R-G-E. Bondcharge.com/deloney. Use coupon code deloney to save 15%.

• 54:15Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we have a money and marriage question from a live event. This is a real question that somebody posed at a live event in an anonymous, in an anonymous, and I'm so good with the English language, in an anonymous Q and A box. And so here's one of the questions.

• 54:33Dr. John Delony?

  What do you do when both of you thinks the other never initiates sex?

• 54:46Dr. John Delony?

  This is gonna sound absurd, and this is just popping into my head. But if you're both sitting there saying, "You never initiate sex." And the other person says, "I do all the time. You never initiate sex." And you're like, "I do it all the time. You never..." Cool. Then for the next 30 days, we're just gonna keep a tally mark.

• 55:03Dr. John Delony?

  Or be silly about it. Add some sort of levity into a heavy situation and say, "All right, I'm initiating."

• 55:11Dr. John Delony?

  And begin to, just call it out. Because when both of you think a thing, and the other one's accusing you, "All right, then we need to go to the data." And there's not a lot of data, right? "But we have sex all the time." Actually, I marked it on the calendar. We've had it twice in the last two months. "Nuh-uh, uh-huh, on this day and this day."

• 55:30Dr. John Delony?

  Or, "We never have sex. We had it four times last week." "No, we didn't." "Yeah, we did." "It wasn't very long, trust me, but we did, right? We did." And so, there's something about the data. That was a good joke. There's something about just data. It just is. And so, by the way, don't, don't, um, this is important. Don't bomb each other. It's like, don't secretly record somebody and be like, "Nuh-uh, you said it and push play. Don't do that." But say, "Okay, I think I'm initiating all the time, and I'm clearly not doing a good job at initiating, because you're not getting my initiation, and then I'm blaming you. So, for the next month, the next 30 days, when you think you're initiating, when I think I'm initiating, I'm gonna either call it out, or I'm gonna make a little tally mark in my calendar.

• 56:13Dr. John Delony?

  And we'll get to the end of the month, and we're gonna start tracking how I think I'm initiating."

• 56:19Dr. John Delony?

  "I put on my special bra." Well, I didn't, I didn't get it. "I put my phone away." I, I missed that. "I put three cups that were on the table into the dishwasher." I thought that was me saying, "It's go time, baby." Like, I missed it. So, maybe you're both initiating, and it's not, the, the signal's not coming through. There's too many clouds, and you can't see the bad signal. So, let's just start, let's call it out. And by the way, this isn't just about sex. This is, "You never help around the house. I always help around the house." All right, just for 30 days, not to weaponize anything. Just wanna keep track of it. And you keep track of the times you walked in and the dishwasher was still full. And I was in there just farting around on my phone. And I'm gonna keep track of the times I did the dishwasher.

• 57:05Dr. John Delony?

  And we're gonna get to the end of the month and all these times I thought I was doing it. I actually only did it once. I'm sorry. I did it once a week. I did it four times in a month. And that meant you had to do it twice a day for like the other 24 days of the month. 28 days of the month. Sorry. Right? So when you get stuck with feelings, let's just start going to the data for a bit. And if you use this data to weaponize, you're not a good person. Don't do that. Don't do that. This is just to help us sift through the shame and the vulnerability we feel when we try to initiate something as sensitive as sex. And then we feel rejected. So just gonna write it down, call it out, and then we'll go from there.

• 57:47Dr. John Delony?

  Hopefully, this allows you both to begin initiating sex in a language you both understand. And then the house will be a-rockin'. So we will not come a-knockin'. Love you guys. Bye.