How to Become Resilient and Break World Records (ft. Dean Stott)

After a catastrophic parachuting accident ended his military career in the British special forces, Dean Stott couldn't just retire to a quiet life. Instead, he decided to shatter boundaries in entirely new fields. These days, when Dean isn't prepping to beat another world record, like a 14,000-mile bike ride in less than 100 days, he's jet-setting around the world rescuing civilians and diplomats alike from war zones. In this episode, Dean shares his unique approach to overcoming adversity, managing risk, and staying mentally tough in the most challenging situations. We explore his fascinating experiences from war-torn countries to royal security and the psychological benefits of meticulous planning and mission-driven thinking. Dean also offers a glimpse into how he balances extreme challenges with a grounded personal life. Enjoy. CHAPTERS Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction: The Baddest Motherfucker I've Ever Met 00:03:40 Dean's Relationship to Pain and the Parachuting Incident 00:08:04 Breaking the Pan-American Highway World Record 00:12:18 Mortality, Risk, and Making Smart Decisions 00:16:18 The Canadian Embassy Evacuation and Understanding Local Cultures 00:20:01 Building Trust in Dangerous Places 00:22:17 Choosing the Harder Path and Becoming SBS 00:25:47 What the Military Teaches That Civilians Miss 00:30:53 Preparation, Perfectionism, and OCD 00:33:24 Dealing With Extremes and Training Two Up 00:37:57 The Power of Non-Judgment and Making Friends Anywhere 00:39:46 Alana: Partnership, Purpose, and Power Couple Dynamics 00:46:56 The Duty to Give Back and How to Ask for Money 00:48:03 Meeting Prince Harry and Fox Piss One 00:52:31 The Skill of Being Famous and the Burden of Duty 00:59:02 Toughest Forces on Earth and Still Got It 01:02:51 Ocean Rowing the West Coast and Taking Alana Out of Her Comfort Zone ⇨ Sign up for my newsletter, Your Next Breakthrough. It will help make you a less awful person: ⁠⁠⁠⁨https://markmanson.net/breakthrough⁩⁠⁠⁠ ⇨ Get clarity on what actually matters. Try Purpose, Mark's AI mentor app that learns your patterns, challenges your blind spots, and helps you take action. Get started at ⁠⁠⁠⁨https://bit.ly/4w46FMH⁠⁠⁠ FOLLOW MARK Mark's IG: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/markmanson⁠ Solved IG: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/solvedpodcast/⁠ Twitter: ⁠https://x.com/markmanson⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/markmanson/⁠ YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@IAmMarkManson

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mark Manson?

  Imagine there's a guy in the Special Forces who nearly rips his leg off in a parachuting accident. It puts him in the hospital for nearly a year and ends his military career. Now imagine if that same guy went on to break cycling world records with no prior experience cycling. Yeah, what the fuck? My guest today is that guy. His name is Dean Stott, and he is the baddest motherfucker I've ever met. And aside from breaking absurd cycling world records, he was a member of the United Kingdom's Special Forces for 16 years. He's been on missions in Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Yemen, among other undisclosed locations. Since leaving the military, he's worked in private security, extracting foreigners in war zones, and protecting members of the royal family.

• 0:43Mark Manson?

  As you will see, Dean's mental strength is absolutely awe-inspiring. He's been in some of the most difficult situations imaginable, both mentally and physically, and in this episode, we're going to discuss all of that. We're going to talk about his relationship to pain and how he's trained himself over the years to never be stopped or affected by it. We're going to talk about the psychological benefits of an absurd amount of planning, and why it's useful to see everything as a mission, and how Dean thinks about risk. We'll discuss the importance of remaining aware of one's mortality without also being consumed by it. We talk about why understanding local cultures and respecting each individual is actually the key to safety and getting things done in the most dangerous places in the world. We talk about his wife and the role that she has played in his success,

• 1:27Mark Manson?

  and how they've stayed connected and happy despite the fact that he keeps doing things that risk his life. And in the conversation, Dean shares with us the one thing that he believes the military teaches that every civilian would benefit from. Dean, if you haven't noticed, is kind of a badass, but you'd never know it by just talking to him. I met him at a friend's house a few years ago where we mostly talked about surfing. It was only at the end of the night that someone happened to mention that he was single-handedly responsible for evacuating the entire Canadian embassy from Benghazi and Libya when the civil war broke out. And then I was like, "Wait." What the fuck did he do? Dean's laid back, easygoing nature is, as we'll see, the key to the scope of his success.

• 2:10Mark Manson?

  Security is, after all, ultimately about managing people. Whether through force or through mutual respect and understanding, Dean is world class at both. Now, this conversation was a blast. I know it's gonna blow your mind and be a ton of fun. But before we get into it, I have a quick announcement to make. We are moving the podcast over to its own YouTube channel. So if you're still watching on the Mark Manson channel, please go over to the Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck Podcast channel and watch the episodes there. In July, we're gonna only post episodes over there. So pretty soon, you're not gonna see them here anymore. So please go over there, subscribe. The link's in the description below. Without further ado, this is Dean Stott. Let's get into it. The podcast that's saving the world one fewer fuck at a time.

• 2:54Mark Manson?

  It's the Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck Podcast with your host, Mark Manson.

• 3:02Mark Manson?

  Dean, it's good to see you, man. Yeah, good to see you again. Yeah, welcome to the pod, my friend. You might have the distinction of being the hardest motherfucker I personally know. If there was like a death match and my life depended on it and I had to like nominate a champion, I would call up Dean Stott. You clearly don't, you clearly didn't have many names in your phone book. No, well, I, you know, I don't, my circle of friends are a little bit bookish and nerdy. So, but it's great to see you. It's great to have you here. I've known you for a few years. We've talked a lot about your stories. I was reviewing your book the last couple of days. I want to start with just a very kind of philosophical question.

• 3:45Mark Manson?

  How would you describe your relationship to pain? So pain is, it's a respect thing. Yeah. Yeah. And so for me, I understand.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  When I'm in pain, either physically, you know, I I try and take a a negative and turn it into a positive. So for me, you know, there's been incidents throughout my my uh military career where I've had pain, whether that's through an injury. But I also know that you can work through that pain. For me, all I need to know is, if I carry on in with this pain threshold, is is there going to be any long term damage or is it just short term? If I realize it's just short term, then it sort of subsides in my in my head.

• 4:24Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  And I can manage to sort of push through it. And the same in the physical aspect when I'm doing some of these big challenges. You know, I I like, I'm not a a glut for pain. I just, I don't like pain, but I I just, I can just respect it. I tend to know now how far I can push my body and then realize actually what is actual just pain through physical endurance or what is actual pain through a a long term injury. A big factor for me was when I got injured out the special forces, you know, that incident, I had a parachute accident. Um, I exited the aircraft, my leg got caught up in a line. And that pain, I'd never felt pain like that before. And it was that bad, I was vomiting because of the pain.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Uh, and so then I knew that was a distinction. This is pain I never felt before. It's not like pain through physical uh activity. So for me, I just know the varying levels of pains and I know how far I can push. And then if there's this point where I realize actually this is too much and it may have, you know, detrimental effects long term, then I then I'll I'll wind it back. But if I know that it's not going to have an issue, I'll I'll try and push even harder.

• 5:30Mark Manson?

  Did that parachuting incident, was that a little, was, is there like any sort of before and after experience with that of like,

• 5:38Mark Manson?

  the things that you push through after that incident, you're like, oh, I've been through so much worse than this. Like, this is nothing.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  No, with with that one slightly different, I I I've known guys that were on operations in Afghan and the guy would, you know, go over on his angle, he actually broke his leg, but carried on on the uh the assault and then marched out ten ten miles afterwards, you know, because guys don't want to let each other down. And so I've seen guys with pain thresholds. But with this one, I knew it was different. I I have had fractures before. I've had numerous injuries, you know, it's it's the nature of the beast in in the special forces. But this one was slightly different.

• 6:14Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  This this I was like, I think for me. We were about to go out to Afghanistan in two weeks' time. And that's all I was looking forward to. And then I sort of knew I'm not going to be going with my friends. And so it was a mixture of physically not being able to do, but mentally trying to get my, my, my head around that. And I think that was probably the mental was the hard thing, you know, the physical I don't mind with.

• 6:36Mark Manson?

  So I like that the purpose thing makes a lot of sense, right? Like if there's, if there's some sort of higher purpose or deeper cause, right? Like that gives a justification of like, okay, just ignore the pain. Like, I imagine that's a huge part of it, but it's, it's just funny reading your story as a civilian, as like somebody who's never done any, anything like this, right? Like it's, I, I read your story, both in terms of the special forces stuff, you know? You write about in Kosovo, being up in sub-zero temperatures up in the mountains for 20 days straight, right? Or doing the bike, the Pan, Pan American Highway Bike, Bike Ride. Which I just imagine like, you've probably got blisters on your ass.

• 7:20Mark Manson?

  You're getting pelted with like rain and wind and hail. You're climbing up mountains for literally weeks and weeks and weeks in a row, right? Like it's, I just, when I try to imagine myself in those situations. My experience with like enduring long durations of pain is that I, I eventually reach a point where my mind is just like desperate to escape. You know, and starts rationalizing any reason I can come up with of like, get the fuck out of here. Like any excuse, any, any story that seems even mildly believable. And so when I meet somebody like you, I'm just curious, like, A, do those stories come up? And B, if so, how do you respond to them? Or do you respond to them?

• 8:04Speaker 01

  So for me, when it came to the bike ride, you know, I'd been in all those environments before. But I'd never done it on, on a bike. And so I just literally, I think if I did that bike ride at a very young age, I probably wouldn't have been able to do it. I literally was able to do it because I'd taken all those experiences before and just put it into, into a sport. And yeah, like you said, your, your worst enemy is your mind. You know what I mean? You, when it is hard and you know, it is tough, you, you, you do start drifting away. You always look at. Maybe the the easy route out. So actually, for the for the listeners, I'd never cycled more than twenty miles before I applied for the world record for the world's longest road, fourteen thousand miles. And six months before I even went off on the challenge, we

• 8:48Speaker 01

  had a a fundraising um group together. We were already planning the welcome back party before I'd even set off, you know. So and I remember Amanda, she was the fundraising manager, and she said, look, Dean, she goes, what is the contingency? You know, because she had to obviously think about all these options. And and Alana would say, well, we go to Dean's funeral. And I never, I never used to answer. And the reason, the reason I didn't answer her, and I did answer when I got back. I said, look, if I knew there was a contingency, if I knew it got hard and it got difficult, and there was, there was an alternative, you naturally take that route. Yes. And so for me, I was blocking off those exit routes. And it was literally, the only way you're gonna, this is gonna end is either me dead, or or we finish this challenge. And

• 9:33Speaker 01

  so that's how I how I look at it. You know, in the military, especially special forces, we're mission driven. You know, we had a mission. My mission was to get to Alaska in in quicker than one hundred and seventeen days. So that was always the mission. You know, how we do it, you know, the plan from the start to actual, the way it actually panned out was two totally different things, you know, having to change plans on on the road. Um, I mean, the other sort of distractions as well, you know, is when it getting hard. You know, we raised money for a mental health campaign, uh, which had eleven charities under it, everything from young children, teenagers, postnatal depression, veterans, adults. And so for me, you know, one of the charities I was doing the bike ride for was called Place To Be, which was basically helping children in school speak to a counselor.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  And the hundred thousand pounds that they got would enable fourteen thousand children to speak to a counselor. So I just related that to the miles I was doing. Yeah. Each mile I'm on this bike, another child is is getting to um to speak to someone. But unlike other. Maybe cycling adventurers out there, a lot of them, they do the bike ride and they have a team that sort of coordinate all the planning and the coordination. Alana and I did the planning and coordination for this. So that was also was another distraction for me. So I'm just being fixated on the bike computer. I was already thinking about the next two or three stages as well. It was almost like a military operation. So I had those distractions when it was hard.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  But I also made sure I hit my targets for the day. You know, I see people going out on challenges and like, well, I'm 10 miles behind today and I'll catch that up tomorrow. But you don't know what's going to happen the next day. You know, you could have another bad day, be 20 to 30 miles behind. So I always made sure by the end of the day, I was where I should be. Because then you're in a good headspace then at the evening when you go to bed, you know that next day we're on point and where we are.

• 11:25Mark Manson?

  That's interesting, the idea of providing yourself productive distraction. The useful things for your mind to work on that take it kind of away from the discomfort of the present moment. But you said the no contingency, I'm either going to do this or I'm dead. I love that. I mean, it reminds me of like the Spanish conquistadors burning the boats. You know, when they came to the new world, but that also requires a certain comfort with the possibility of one's own death. Like, I mean, and obviously doing, you know, being in special forces for so long, going on all these missions, well aware of the fact that you might not come back. Like, what, how would you say your relationship is with thinking about your own mortality?

• 12:08Mark Manson?

  Do you think about your own mortality when you're on these missions, when you're doing extractions, when you're in war zones? And if so, like, how did you develop a comfort level with that?

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think you do think about your own mortality. You're naive to think that you're indestructible or an immortal. So for me, you know, I was very fortunate. I've been on these operations with guys and in this special forces, especially like, we're in tier one special forces and literally everything is about mission success, mission success and getting the guys back. We don't think anything but that. And we do, we do get guys injured and we do lose guys along the way. So for me, you know, I sort of think I'm very fortunate. I've been in those situations. I'm still here. You know, I think your time is your time. I think sometimes you can focus too much. If you think too much about. Uh your mortality, then it's gonna blur your vision, you know, that's gonna put instill

• 13:03Speaker 01

  so much fear into you, you don't even wanna go do it. So it's it's a balance, it's a balance of thinking that, no, I'm not indestructible, but I still need to complete this mission. But where, you know, the training sort of uh helps you mentally, you know that you've been through a situation before, you know, you are, you are, you're one of the best trained in the world and you can do it. And having a plan as well, you know, for me, whether it's the evacuations, whether it's the bike ride, you know, have a plan, be comfortable with your plan. But as I've mentioned before, you know, also be respectful of the fact that it doesn't always go to plan. And I think that's where the special forces and where I have I've done really well is the fact that I've had to react to situation changes on the ground, you know, when I'm, before I deploy somewhere to do evacuations, you

• 13:47Speaker 01

  you already have in your head a perception of what it's gonna be like when you get there. And then when you actually get there, it's like, okay, we need to change the plan. And so, so yeah, so back to your original question, you know, I'm not naive to think that I'm an immortal. Uh I'm comfortable in the fact that, you know, in my training, having a plan. Um and yeah, I've been in situations that I'm still here to tell the stories where some of my friends aren't. And so I'm unfortunate in that aspect.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. You have uh like a a pension for risk, obviously, is kind of what we're talking about here too. Um but you, I'm sure you've learned how to mitigate a lot of that, or at least approach it. What is your approach to risk? Like, what, what to you makes a smart risk worth taking versus a dumb one? Uh because you've taken some extreme risks.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I take some extreme risks, you know, a lot of the stuff I do is probably the more so the evacuations that I do. Um, you know, everyone sees, you know, Hollywood doesn't help matters, you know, I call it the biceps, the bullet, the biceps, the bullets and the bombs, you know, it's almost like, you know, it's all exciting and it's blown off, you know, I I say that, you know, that's twenty five percent of what we do is what you see on the TV. And that's always the last, last resort. Actually, fifty percent of what we do, do isn't really that sexy. It's always hearts, hearts and minds, support and influences, being embedded with locals, understanding demographics, politics, tribal influences. So that's where my success has been is.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  The fact that I utilize as many local resources as possible. If I was trying to, again, I'd be naive to say I'm gonna go into into Israel, I'm gonna go into Libya and get these these people out without that. So for me, it's it's having a plan, um having those local resources that help you. And then some of the risks, you know, it has to be balanced, you know, I'm not gonna take stupid risks at all. Um. The only time I would take a risk if there was, there was, um. You know, someone's life was was imminent, was at risk, then I would have to make a decision which, you know, would probably offset the balance. But actually, you know, someone said, you know, when you leave the special forces and go into the private security set, you've gone from being one of the bravest in the world to the biggest cowards.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Because actually, a security guy who ends up getting into trouble hasn't looked at all the potential options, you know, you know, in in front of him. You know, you need to, if there's trouble over there, why would you walk towards that direction? You you go around. Um. And so, yeah, we do a lot of risk mitigation. And like I said, the only time we would ever compromise something like that is if someone's life was was imminently at risk.

• 16:14Mark Manson?

  So I imagine you've turned down a number of jobs just because it seemed too risky.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  I always liked to look at, I always liked to look at an alternative option, you know, for example, the Canadian Embassy in two thousand and fourteen, I single-handedly evacuated the Canadian Embassy out of Libya, eighteen militaries and four diplomats. And, you know, all the other security companies couldn't come back in. You know, I didn't need a big team. I looked at the the situation we had on the ground. Um. We had to get from A to B and it wasn't actually that far. It was the it was the coastal road from Libya to Tunis. So I got a fixer who was from the local tribes, who spoke, came out, we spoke to the tribal elders. Um. I didn't want to bring any attention to the the group. They had their their diplomatic vehicles, which should have safe passage through. Their issue was all their specialist equipment.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  And so for me, I was like, well, how do we get this specialist equipment out uh undetected? And so they had um from Tripoli to Tunis, the Tripoli port, you know, their fish wagons every day going, doing that route and just literally get waved through um customs. And so that's what I did. I just got two of the local fish wagons and stopped millions of dollars of all their sensitive equipment uh in there. So we just looked at it in a diff- in a different manner. Um and also, I think the week before, the British Embassy got shot at at every checkpoint between Tunis uh so between Tripoli and Tunis. And so I went out, I didn't speak to the guys with the guns, me and my uh fixer, who's from Zouara, which was the border town to Tunis, uh we went out and spoke to the tribal elders.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  And we just, we just sat down with them and we just explained who we are, what our intentions were. And it was just about showing them a bit of respect uh and a bit of communication. And you know, that's what's managed to get me through some of these, these, these hairy situations is the fact that don't try and sneak around, you know, the reason the British Embassy got shot is because they hadn't communicated with them and they just drove through the checkpoints at speed, panicking. And so, again, it's everyone's perception or lack of knowledge of the regions. Uh and and so that's where, that's where my approach is is slightly different.

• 18:22Mark Manson?

  And you, you had had previous experience in Libya, so you knew a lot of the, the local people.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:28Mark Manson?

  The dynamics, the tribal affiliations and everything.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, the tribal affiliations in Libya is very um, it's very difficult to to navigate. There's a hundred and sixty seven tribes.

• 18:38Mark Manson?

  Wow.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  In Libya. So uh my original one back in two thousand and twelve, when your American ambassador got killed in Benghazi, um I was there that evening. And got an oil company, a German oil company from um uh Benghazi back to Tripoli. And again, you know, someone without real knowledge of the, of the ground would probably say, right, let's take the coastal route and drive straight to to Tripoli. But you have to then go through Mazra to Tripoli. You've got guys and drivers from Benghazi and they're gonna be your biggest risk. Uh not you yourselves as westerners, is the fact that, you know, it's these guys. So what I did with that one is, rather than taking the coastal road, we headed south and I had a safe house in Zella, out in the middle of the desert, and we just lay up there for thirty six hours.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  And the reason we were laying up there was to A, understand that local knowledge, whereas other. Providers may just panic and just take that coastal route and end up in in trouble. So, yeah, understanding the demographics, understanding the tribal influences and and who's operating where and having the right fixes. I must have about fifteen fixes in Libya, all for for the the various uh varying regions. Yeah.

• 19:48Speaker 02

  How do you develop like those relationships and get the trust that you need? That's got to take, there's cultural sensitivities you got to think about. There's uh just, I mean, the hundred and sixty seven tribes in Libya, they probably, some of them probably don't like each other.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  How do you, you said it's hard to navigate, how do you even start to navigate that?

• 20:05Speaker 01

  Um, so for me, what the way I I do things, I tend to work on my own as well. I don't, I I keep a low profile. Um, a a good example of of this, trying to establish these relationships with Somalia. I got asked to go into Somalia to help uh one of the largest private security companies in the world were struggling to get a footprint in there. And so everyone, when I landed in in Mogadishu, everyone stays within the airbase. Well, I didn't. I just grabbed my bags and just walked straight out of the airport towards the nearest hotel. And you could see people look at me like, because I obviously I do stand out, you know, I'm bald haired, tattoos and like, you know, quite muscular. And I think they were just in shock, like, who's this guy? Um, but I got to the hotel, hotel manager actually gave me an AK forty seven and a pistol, said you might need this.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  I probably would. Um, but you then get start to, you know, people start coming up to you, I, you know, I, before I went in, I I obviously understood the history of the country as well. You know, I I don't go in blind, I I do my own homework first. And, you know, I I was having meetings and people, it's all about networking, they said, oh, he speaks such. And I ended up meeting um a guy called Abshire, uh and I'm sure he's French intelligence. Uh, but actually he was from London, typical, as of all the places, we could have actually done this back in London rather than in Mogadishu. But actually, when him and I sat down and we we we um, you know, we had some dinner uh on the beach in Mogadishu. I got their their respects because he said, well, you, I, they get emails all the time from security providers. And they all offer the same services, they're all like special forces and things like that.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  He said, but you've taken the risk, you've come here. You know, you've come here, you've sat across the table from me, you now understand the atmospherics of the country. And so that's where I got a lot of respect is the fact that rather than doing it via email, I would land in the country and I would physically go see these people face to face because again, my perception of Somalia and then what I actually saw when I got there were two different things. Now, I go spearfishing off Mogadishu and we cook lobsters on the barbecue, but everyone obviously sees Black Hawk Down and thinks that's their perception. So that's how I've managed to build those relationships.

• 22:11Mark Manson?

  One common thread that I noticed like throughout your life, you have these major decision points and you tend to choose the more challenging path. Like when you first joined the military, because your father was, he was in the military, but he was in charge of sports, he was a coach. And there was, that option was available to you, you could have easily followed that path, but you chose not to, you went, you wanted to become a paratrooper, I believe.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, commando, yeah.

• 22:35Mark Manson?

  Yeah, and go into combat. Then you chose to go into special forces, but it wasn't enough to go in the special forces. You had to pick like the harder way to go into special forces, you know, instead of the normal route that most guys did it. It just seems like you, when the path forks and there's like, I don't want to call it the easy way, but there's like the challenging way and the more challenging way. You seem to consistently opt for the more challenging way. And I'm just curious, like, does that resonate? And if so, like, what, what drives that? What motivates that?

• 23:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, so for me, I didn't have a plan to be in the military. As you said, I call my father the Ted Lasso. He was the army soccer manager and coach, but now I've, now I've seen Ted Lasso, he's nothing like Ted Lasso. Nothing like Ted Lasso at all. But he's what we call a tracksuit soldier. So his career, as you touched on, was very sports oriented. And my first year was the same. As soon as I realized my dad was Dave Stott, I was in the army soccer team and doing the same. And then, like you said, I then joined the commando forces. But I always had a, that my father told me going back slightly, I'd last two minutes. Yeah. And so, so for me, I always say, you know, the best course of action is action itself. There's no point in arguing with someone. You know, because if they have their beliefs and you have your beliefs, the only way you're

• 23:47Speaker 01

  going to prove them wrong is by course of action. And so I did, I joined the army. Um, I mean, once my dad realized I was actually being quite serious, he then supported me and gave me some direction. No, there's guys, uh, I was on selection with who all they've ever wanted to be from a young boy at the age of six or seven is, is special forces. You know, they wanted to be a parachuter or a commando and go S B S S E S. I had, I always wanted to be a fireman. I had no, no ambition of being in the military as well. I just, it's just my, my life had sort of put me in this position. Here I was on selection. So I never put myself any, under any, um, self-induced pressure. It is what it is. Here I am. And some of these guys were, were, were coming off and failing, you know, they'd reached, you know, that time in their

• 24:31Speaker 01

  life, you know, it's do or die. And they were coming off and that was it. They were devastated. They would then leave the military. So, so for me, it was like, well, I, if I pass, I pass. If I, if I don't, I don't. And yeah, I ended up becoming one of the first army guys to go S B S. And I think now fifteen percent of the S B S comes from the army.

• 24:48Mark Manson?

  Do you consider yourself a perfectionist?

• 24:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I am. Yeah. Yeah. I, I like to, if, if I can, if I can, I'll try and get, you know, I have an O C D. Yeah. I, I, I hadn't had it all my life. I mean, it's something in the military, you know. I ended, unfortunately, there was a blip in my career. I ended up in a military prison, uh, for fighting, um, for fifty-six days, but I loved it.

• 25:09Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  Because we had room inspections every day. Everything was methodical. It was in pairs. I was like, this is, this is amazing. If I got, if I got paid to stay here, it's great, you know. So, but my O C D seems to have sort of, um, worn off now. I have three kids. You know, my first daughter, I was literally around now, you know, picking her up. Um, but yeah, everything, like you say, everything I like to do, I like, I like to try and do as much research and, and I understand that you, you can't be a perfectionist, but you know, just try and, you know, things don't always go to plan, as I keep touching on, so.

• 25:40Mark Manson?

  What do you think is the most useful or important thing that guys learn in the military?

• 25:47Mark Manson?

  That civilians don't have access to that it that it's like, man, if if everybody learn this, the way military guys learn this or experience this, the way military guys experience this, like, the world would be a better place. Like, if it had to be one thing.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't understand one thing. And I do. I do a lot of guest speaking and and and everyone's fascinated in the corporate world, you know, the battlefield to the boardroom, I call it.

• 26:09Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  They understand your mindset, how making these decisions in in in these sort of situations. And and and the thing is, that's one thing the military brings that no other organization out there can replicate is the scenarios and situations that they put you in, you know, whether you're whether you're jumping into the Indian Ocean to then go rescue hostages, or whether you're doing going to diving off a submarine off the coast of Libya, you know, no one could could do that. So for me, I think the real takeaway I got from my time in the military was was my self-confidence. I joined at the age of seventeen. I was five foot seven and probably weighed about one hundred and thirty pounds.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? So physically, I wasn't there, but mentally, it was believing that anything was was was was possible. And so I'd probably say that's the the big takeaway. And for me is is that individual belief that you're you're capable of doing it, but also that that teamwork, that camaraderie, I think. Again, it's very difficult to replicate that in the civilian sector. Yes, you may work with people at work, you know, probably the only sort of similar scenario is a professional sports team.

• 27:18Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  Uh, is that. And I think that's what what's lacked in in the civilian sector, which you do get from the military, because we, you know, we literally go to the toilet together, we shower together, we live together for months on end. Yeah.

• 27:29Mark Manson?

  And your lives depend on each other. Like, I think that's the irreplicable thing is like your life literally depends on the guy next to you.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, literally. And and as I said, you know, when we're when I'm on the ground, there are two things I think about is mission success and getting everyone back on on that helicopter, because my guy, my guy in front of me, I met his wife and his kids.

• 27:47Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 27:47Speaker 01

  You know, we have barbecues when we when we go back home. So it's not just, he's not just my uh, my my coworker. I I know everything uh, about him as well. And so. So yeah, that's that's probably what you can't really replicate in the civilian sector is that is that sort of that that brotherhood or camaraderie. And I think that's where a lot of guys, you know, if you talk about mental health, I mean, that's where a lot of guys in Gill's struggle when they leave. You know, you obviously know the book Tribe.

• 28:13Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  You know, you've left this tribe and you can't go back into that tribe. You know, what other tribe do you belong in? And I I had the same thing when I got injured out, you know, I had a huge identity crisis. My guys were going to Afghanistan and then I was going to physio and then I was now a civilian. And so really I'd sort of lost that. Now, what is my role? What is my purpose? You know, how do I fit in in society? So um, so, yeah, you but you still, I could call one of my friends at any time now.

• 28:42Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  And and it's almost like, you know, if some of the guys I hadn't spoken to for six years, um, but I could call him, it's like we we were chatting yesterday.

• 28:50Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  Um, so I think that's probably what lacks in the civilian sector that we we get in the military.

• 28:56Mark Manson?

  And would you say the self-confidence piece that kind of comes back to what we were talking about pain and experience before of like, you get experience by having experiences. Like, you know, the military just puts you through so many difficult experiences that you you can't help but develop that confidence of like, okay, I've been through worse before.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think you just can't help. And there also has to be a bit of self-confidence as well. We used to get these uh, these annual reports, you know, like confidential reports from your officer and they'd tell you about how you're doing and where you are with the rest of the guys and what, how you can advance in your career. And and I used to always have the same comment every year, there's a fine line between confidence and arrogance. And I was like, I said, yeah, but if you're good, you're good.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  And and but I, for me, it was like, it's almost contagious as well, because if you're leading a team and you're lacking a bit of confidence, they're looking at you for for direction. And so, yeah, it's sometimes, yes, when you talk about fear or self-induced pressure, yeah, there was times that I did have that, but I couldn't let. My team see that, you know, because they see fear in you that it will, you know, dissolve onto them. And so, so, yeah, there was an element that sometimes like, but then because you were completing the missions and you were achieving. And yeah, there was an element of, you know, it's not arrogance, it was confidence. And I think you have to be confident because you have any doubt, then, you know, doubt will creep in and you won't succeed, be mission successful. Yeah.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  Well, I think, would you say too that the military taught you how to deal with extremes in a way, not just extreme situations? But like you were saying, you, you are a perfectionist and you put yourself in situations where your perfect plan is not going to pan out. Um, and also I would just things like some stories I've, I've read and heard from you where you're in a very, very tense situation, but you have to be, you, you can't let that anybody know how freaked out you are or anything like that. So dealing with extremes within yourself too, I think is probably a skill that I know I don't, I certainly don't have. When extremes come up in my life, I tend to kind of just fall apart a lot of times. So.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the military is great in the fact that, because it's not all on your shoulders, you've got the rest of the team. So what we do in the military, the British military is we train to up. So if you're a, a, a lands corporal, you already know the job of a sergeant. If you're a sergeant, you know, the job of, so should something happen, you know, these guys already know what to do as well. So actually, you know, if you've got the best team around you, your job is quite easy, you know, because they already know what you're thinking. They've already done it, you know, so that's the thing. It's trying to be two, three steps ahead of these guys who are, are experts as well. So that sort of takes the, the pressure off as well. Comes back to preparation. Yeah. Just like an obscene amount of preparation.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Obscene amount of preparation. Yeah. And that's what I mean, you know, you know, what you see, you know, the sexy stuff, you know, it's all the, the training behind the scenes. You know, for us, we used to do two year, it's like a two year rule month in, in the special forces. And, you know, six months build up so to Afghanistan or Iraq, you do all your training then. Uh, and then you also have your own individual skills, whether you're a medic, whether you're a JTAC, brings in the jets, whether you're a demolitions expert. You know, you have to then, then practice all your insurgent skills. You are literally training and training all the time. Uh, and so when it actually comes to the operations, you're like, thank God we're actually, we're actually here now. It's almost a bit of respite.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  Because of the training that's come before you. I mean, you come back from that tour and then you're on you're on the pager to deploy anywhere around the world through this situation. And then we do counterterrorism hostage rescue. But unlike the US, we actually do homeland and overseas. So, yeah, we got.

• 32:34Mark Manson?

  So you're like SWAT team and.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  SWAT team, yeah, and and overseas as well. So you're, I mean, before you know it, you then start in the rotation to go back out to Afghanistan or Iraq. So literally, the training behind the scenes i- is immense. And you have to stay current as well, you know, because by the time you go back out on your next tour, you're probably out of date. Some of these things are only

• 32:56Speaker 01

  valid for about a year or maybe two years. And so, yeah, so the training, because it's training so consistent, it just becomes second nature, just comes second nature to you.

• 33:07Mark Manson?

  I imagine a huge part of succeeding in your industry is just an intense lack of judgment, like, and I don't mean that in a that sounds bad way. No, but like as an intense like lack of judging people based on nationality, culture, ethnicity, gender, like you're dealing with everybody from all walks of life, from all backgrounds, from all nationalities. Probably extremely unique personal stories as well. And it just occurred to me that like the ability to

• 33:43Mark Manson?

  to just approach people as humans.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:46Mark Manson?

  And not see them as by, you know, whatever label you want to put on them.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  It's true, yeah.

• 33:51Mark Manson?

  That's like probably an underrated trait.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  It's an underrated trait. Alana says to people, my USP is I can make a friend with anyone from any culture, anywhere in the world, you know, I look quite intimidating.

• 34:00Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  But it doesn't put anyone off. I make friends all over the world. And I think you're right, that's success. Unfortunately, you know, people are quick to tarnish a certain community because of something that was bad. So I take nine eleven, for example, no nine eleven, although quite bad it was, you know, everyone tarnishes that Muslim community, but it's only a small, a small minority that were bad. And there's small minorities that are bad in every culture, every community. And so for me, I'm telling you about some of these success stories. None of these would have been successful if it wasn't for those locals.

• 34:29Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  Um, you know, and so I, I, I, I understand the benefits of them and how they can help me and help, help the mission. So. That's probably been, you know, one of the big factors of this is, is understanding and showing them respect. And. When I go to the, some of these places, I will sit on the floor. They will offer me a table with a fork and a plate and a, and a knife. And I'm, no, no, I'll, I'll sit with you. And that goes a lot, a long way, whereas some others may not. No, they may just be quite arrogant and just sit, sit on the table with their knife and fork. And so, so for me, it's understanding, you know, the, the, the cultures. And I, I do a lot of re, if I don't know, I, I'll ask before I go in. Um. But yeah, obviously I've been fortunate to go pretty much all over the world now. I think I've been over, over a hundred and ten countries around the world.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  Uh, and understand the, the differences between the cultures, you know, simple ones like. And I also train as well, travel security for some of the, the corporates and individuals, like for example, Saudi. Uh, is quite a sensitive place, but. You know, as long as you know what you're doing, people are worried about those places. But if, you know, the only thing that gets them in trouble is their lack of knowledge. You know, as we're seeing, you know, Turks and Caicos, the Americans with ammunition in their. In their bags or uh WNBA women are taking marijuana, you know, that it's just.

• 35:43Mark Manson?

  Russia, yeah.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  It's just individual errors that get people in, in, in trouble. You know, if you take. If you have a Bible in Saudi, that's fine. If you have two Bibles, you're a preacher, you get arrested. You know, it's just understanding just little things like that. So I always say to people, you know, don't worry about these, you know, cause it can be quite intimidating when you go to some of these places. You know, especially with the, the Middle East, the way that they talk to each other is quite loud and aggressive. I used to pick people up from the airport and I'm like, what are they arguing about? Ooh, they're not arguing. That's just the way. It's just the way they speak. So I always tell people, my advice is to do a little bit of research, you know, and, and some of these websites. Dot gov dot U K, the Ameri, the American equivalent, they have them on there. They have cultural awareness on there. And I, I always say that to people is.

• 36:26Speaker 01

  Cause that's the only thing I see that gets people in trouble is just the lack of cultural awareness.

• 36:30Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:31Mark Manson?

  It also plays into like something that I, I found living abroad for a number of years and, and also just deeply believe that like. Most people are good. Anywhere in the world, any country, any background, any religion, like the vast majority of people are just nice people who want to help out.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  And it tends to be the people with not so much money as well.

• 36:50Mark Manson?

  Yes.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  I find, you know, Africa is probably my favorite continent, you know, they, they, they don't have much money, but they are so hospitable. When I did my bike ride, actually, when I, when I guest speak, you know, I always get the question, oh, what was it like? Because, you know, you cycle through South America and Central America and Mexico, Colombia. Well, Colombians love cycling, so that was it. You know, Mexico, was it bad with the cartel? And I was like, no. The only security incident we had on that bike ride was in Colorado Springs. Someone broke into the support wagon, you know, in Colorado. So I'm sort of like, when I put that on the table, that really? And so, but yeah, it's again, it's, it's the media monster that, that scares people. And I think if you listen to every new C or, or read, you know, you would never travel, you never leave your front door.

• 37:33Mark Manson?

  Oh, for sure.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  And so just take, take a little bit, yes. And as you touched on, there's bad people in, in all communities. There's places in LA, LA I won't go to.

• 37:40Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  You know, I was in New York a couple of weeks ago at a wedding, what my word.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  And I felt safer down in Yemen or in Mogadishu. But, um, you know, but then there've been those beautiful places in America as well. And I think everyone just needs to really understand that it's, it's, it's everywhere. There's good and bad places.

• 37:57Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 37:57Speaker 02

  Well, I'm sure you've had, you know, these local relationships that you've developed, so many of them. I'm sure you've had some betrayal of trust or, or something like that. How do you deal with that when that comes up?

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Touch wood, I've never had one.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  Really?

• 38:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've never had one. Yeah, I've never had betrayal of trust with, with foreigners working abroad. No, nothing, no one's really let me down at all.

• 38:16Speaker 02

  Is that just because you, you spent so much time upfront, developing that relationship? And you've, you've needed out every little detail that you needed.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  Developing that relationship and actually paying them a decent wage as well. You know, a lot of people, a lot of these, uh, security providers will always look at how they, they can, you know, a lot of these big security companies now are actually run by accountants. That's, that's the problem. And so they're trying to obviously cost cut. So for me, it's like, no, it's fair. I will pay you, whether you're Libyan, whether you're from Tunis or, or Guinea, uh, in, um, or Ghana. I'll tell you, I'll pay you the same as what I'll pay one of my guys coming in from UK or America, which is huge for them. And so you don't then get, you know, cause there's plenty of money to go around and they're not going to betray you because they're on, onto a good thing as well. And again, it's that respect thing is that, no, why would I pay you any less than? Someone else, if you're delivering the same product.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  And so, yeah, that's, that's what I tend to do. So I say, I think where Alana and I've been quite successful, because it's a husband and wife, we're, we're very nimble. We make a decision straight away rather than having to make phone calls and pull guys in. And so for us, it's just, we, because we are nimble, I will fly in and we already have people on the ground. And so, you know, we'll just pay them, you know, what they're due.

• 39:30Mark Manson?

  So, speaking of Alana, how has all of this affected the relationship over the years? And how have you guys adapted to, I mean, because you're, you're traveling all the time.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:43Mark Manson?

  Or at least you were in the past.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:44Mark Manson?

  And, you know, any, any given trip, there's a possibility you don't come back.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 39:50Mark Manson?

  So I imagine.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Kids.

• 39:51Mark Manson?

  You have kids. So I imagine that's incredibly hard on her. Like, how did you guys navigate that?

• 39:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I say, everyone sees us now and like the power couple and things that, you know, no, but that's 15 years we've been together. There has been ups and downs. There's been mistakes along the way. You know, I talked about, you know, being home only 21 days and really that was lack of communication. You know, she thought I wanted to be away. I thought she wanted me to be away. And so we, we, again, we've, we've made mistakes. We've learned from those mistakes. We, we don't, um, we don't sort of fall back into that ying yang off balance. Everything we do is, is, is the give back factor as well. Um, you know, even the bike ride, you know, going away for so long, you know, dad's going to help children, you know, you know, so my daughters, that's fine. And so for me, it's just literally a lot of communication.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  And yes, there are sort of dangerous situations. Uh, and if Alana says no, then I, then I won't go. But she understands Alana's got such a big heart. She's always wants to give back. She sees the bigger picture about helping people as well. And so really, we're in a position where if you have the capability to do it. Then I think you you should do it. You should always give back if possible. You know, I'm very fortunate. I have my skill sets. Alana has her skill sets. Uh, and we can utilize them. And what you don't want to do is just sit back and hope someone else is going to pick it up and do it. That probably won't happen.

• 41:14Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, yeah, but like I said, it's been it's been turbulent, uh, but we've now managed to find um, um, an even playing field which works for us both.

• 41:22Mark Manson?

  It sounds like getting aligned on purpose is it's a big part of that.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it literally each each mission has has to have a purpose.

• 41:29Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  Because she works in the human trafficking area. The Haiti um disaster had not long happened and there was a woman there and she was she was needing uh some security. Um, and the the the price on her life was only like five dollars uh over there. Um, and but they couldn't afford to get any security providers in, you know, they were a nonprofit and stuff like that. So Alana's I I don't I want to be in a position where I can help people and we can have the money uh to to do that. So Alana trained uh gave up the banking, you know, when I got injured, I said, well, work in the security. She is a close protection officer. She's a surveillance operator. She's done maritime security. But what she did do, she has an understanding of the security sector when it when it comes to planning. So, yeah, we both

• 42:10Speaker 01

  we both work uh quite well on the things and, you know, I'm very fortunate. I I do have a a forgiving wife in the fact that, you know, she does let me go away for long times. But as I said, it has to have a purpose uh and a and a give back purpose uh as well.

• 42:24Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  And so and she sees that, yeah. If it's not if you're not benefiting someone uh a summon or a good community, then we then we won't do it. But there's also the fact that, you know, you also have to support your family as well. And so, you know, so we've just got to get that balance. And sometimes we don't, you know. My wife sort of jokes, she's the, you know, she has a book, How to Ask for Money.

• 42:42Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  And the the reason that book came about is, you know, on my bike ride, she got me half a million pounds sponsorship as a non cyclist. She raised one point four million dollars for the charity. Um, she's not scared in asking for money, but for me and a lot of guys in the military um uh community, you know, we've I joined the army at seventeen, left at thirty three, you know, when I'm planning operations, you know, I need I need a um a UAV, I need a Spectre gunship, I need three three Blackhawks, I need a squadron of forty guys. No one gives me a bill. No one tells me what that cost. It's already done. And so you come from that environment to then leaving. And I said, oh, and I generally believe everyone in the corporate world was was was was like the military and she's, oh, no, no, no.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  She's cutthroat. So Alana, literally, I still don't deal with any contracts. Alana deals with with all of that. So she works from that side of the house and I work on on the delivery.

• 43:38Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 43:39Speaker 01

  Um, but no, it just, it works well. And I, when I said I was going to visit my wife, a friend of mine is like, that'll never work. It might not work with his wife, but it has, has worked out for us.

• 43:48Mark Manson?

  Well, you, you guys have a nice division of labor. Like, there's really clear roles and it's like, she has her skill set, you have your skill set. There's, it sounds like there's not tons of overlap. Like, you're both experts at what you do. And so there's like a nice synergy.

• 44:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, we understand our strengths and weaknesses. I don't get involved, you know, she said, I'm the one who can schmooze clients. Clients like to talk to you, but then when it comes to contract, I just hand them over to Alana. Yeah. And that's why I say, you know, some of the clients that we have, you know, some big names, you know, when they come, they probably come to me initially with their problem. And then when I, when we get there, have the meeting, I'll bring Alana. I'll say, well, actually, everything you need, that's what Alana does back at house, you know, whether it's forensic investigatory stuff, um, due diligence, you know, helping fix problems. And then I sort of say, if you need me, and it's all gone wrong. You know what I mean? I've probably come to rescue her.

• 44:39Mark Manson?

  It also sounds like, I mean, I don't want to speak for her, but it sounds like she knows what she signed up for. Like, it's, I, I run into, like, I get a lot of emails from people with relationship or marriage problems and, and there, I often see the circumstance where it's like, you know, I married a special forces guy. He's never around. He's always in war zones. And it's like, well, yeah, you married a special forces guy. Like, this is what you signed up for.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, actually, when I, when I met Alana, she didn't even know who the SBS was. She, you know, she, when I told her I was in the SBS, you know, there's a furniture company called SCS, you know, to deliver large sofas. She thought I was in the SCS. I was like, okay, that's fine. And so she hasn't been, you know, that, that didn't work. But actually, you know, you, when I, when you speak to Alana, she'll talk about when she sort of. Fell in love with me when she sort of knew this was the guy. So when I met her in Aberdeen, Aberdeen's like the oil and gas capital of Europe. It's like the Houston. So very much a lot of oil and gas people come. Now, we have four, they have four hundred offshore platforms off, off the coast of Aberdeen. Yeah. And, and so very oil driven, male dominant environment. And, you

• 45:46Speaker 01

  know, she comes from a, a family and a background where like, you, you stay in your own, your own lane. Now, she ended up being a bank manager at twenty one, and she's told she couldn't do it, and it ends up doing it. So when I met her, I said, I said, what is it you've always wanted to do? You've always been, wanted to be in banking? She goes, no, no, I've always wanted to be a spy. I said, oh, I said, so, so what have you done about it? And she goes, oh, well, you know, no, it's not for me. And I was like, okay. So next day, I, I, I turned up at a bank with the MI six, uh, joining instructions and a phone number for a friend who was actually doing recruiting for MI six. I said, give this guy a call. And she ended up, she, she went through the whole process. I think she got to the very last stage. I think she failed on family history. So God knows what I've married into.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  But, but for me is, I think she then knew, well, this guy is going to push me. And, and likewise, uh, she pushes me as well. You know, you know, she found the world's longest road. I, I was thinking maybe east to west coast of Scotland, you know, she just finds the world. So we actually, we work well off each other. Um, yeah, but that was, that was the turning point for her. Like, yeah, this guy's a bit different.

• 46:49Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:50Mark Manson?

  I think that's really important, pushing each other within the relationship, like bring, trying to bring the best out of each other.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  Well, and you both have such a strong sense of duty too, it sounds like. I mean, you were, wanted to be a fireman and then join the military and then she works with human trafficking now, and you guys have this whole thing. But you have this very strong sense of duty, I think, to your just fellow human beings. Is that kind of what drives you guys? Would you say a lot of this? Like, when you're in these crazy situations that you put yourself in, what is, is it that sense of duty that you have to other people? Or, like you said, because I can do it, I, I should do it?

• 47:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's an element of both. There's a sense of duty, but again, I think because we have the capability of doing it, you know, and we can make change and then, then we should, you know. And we're very honest that if, if we can't. Make it happen, if you can't make it work. But then, you know, you do know people who can. You know, a good friend of mine said to me when I first got out, he said, Dean, he goes, when you go into these meetings, you know, if they ask you if you can do it, just say yeah. He said, and then afterwards, because we do, we have such a great network of people who probably can. And so for us, yeah, it's that sense of duty, being able to, we have the capability of doing it, or if not, we know who we can, who, someone who else who could help you. Yeah, yeah. We love it. How did you meet Prince Harry?

• 48:05Speaker 01

  So Prince Harry and I were on a J-TAC course. A J-TAC course is a forward air controller, he drops the bombs from the jets. And so back in two thousand and seven, so he was young, he was twenty three at the time, he was a young second lieutenant, just joined, just come out of Sandhurst and joined the Blues and Royals, and his unit were going to Afghanistan. And so he wanted to go to Afghanistan as well, you know, wanted to go with his guys. But his commanding officer was a ex-SAS, Special Forces guy, was like, well, you can't just go to Afghanistan, you need to have a role or a title. So go away, do the J-TAC course, and you can be the regimental forward air controller. So this course is in RAF Leamington, Yorkshire.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  And up there, you've got the Eurofighter, the Tornadoes, all the RAF, all the Top Guns. And then there's a little wooden hut at the end of the runway, which is where this course is run, where the army are from. And the Air Force pay no attention to the, to this, this little hut. But this, the opening day, I turned up and there was a lot of, I call them brass, there was a lot of gold. Yeah. Gold stripes. Higher ups. Higher ups, a lot of hierarchy around here for some reason. And I walked in the room and there's eighteen students, eighteen seats, and the four back seats for the SAS and SBS, two SAS, two SBS. So I took my seat, I look in front of me and obviously Harry sat there. And every man and his dog came in for this opening address, just to get some face

• 49:30Speaker 01

  time with him. So I was like, okay. Anyway, he then leaves the room. And then the sergeant major and the course officers say, look, you know who's on the course. He gets no preferential treatment. You treat him like one of your own. I thought, fine. So he comes back in the class. And the first lecture we talk about is call signs. So on the course, they they give you a number jackpot. So jackpot one to jackpot eight, uh, one eight. So the pilot then knows which student he's talking to when on the on the communications. And then when you go to your units, you get your own call sign. So mine was mayhem four three in the SBS where mayhem, and then whatever your your number is. And then the SES is like Widowmaker. So Harry puts his hand up and says, oh, you know, if successful on this course, do I get a call sign? And I just blurted out, I said, Yeah, you're Fox piss

• 50:15Speaker 01

  one. Like, you know, and of course, everyone's face like jaws hit the ground like, you know, you know, I was, I was what? And then so he looked around and he smiled, he saw my berry smiled. And then that afternoon, the sergeant major said, right, I've randomly picked these jackpot numbers. You'll be working with me and the rest will be staff sergeant, whoever. And he ended up picking four numbers and fourteen. I was like, well, that's not an even split. But it ended up being me, Harry, an SES guy and a RAF officer. And then you then have to work in pairs through the course. So he said, you you're with Harry because he knew I would treat him as one of one of our own. And I didn't see him as as a rule member. I did see him as a member of the royal family, but I I wasn't acting

• 50:59Speaker 01

  like that around him. I just saw him as a as a young officer. And yeah, he he was a he was a competent JTAC. He was good on the radio. He was great. And then, yeah, he we then just maintained that that relationship. And I used to do a lot of stuff for the special boat service, our nonprofit. He would come to do some events there. And when I ended up getting injured out of the military, you know, I would I had an intelligence fusion cell based in Mozambique and Tanzania. And we helped identify the smuggling routes of the ivory from Africa to Asia. And so I would always send that to him as well. So we we had that relationship post military. It wasn't until the bike ride, really, that that sort of relationship came out in the in the public domain. Because it was actually

• 51:44Speaker 01

  his, he was the first person I rang when Guinness had said, you've been successful. I said, I'm going to cycle the world's longest road. I said, what, you know, what charity should we do it for? And him and his brother and Kate. We're just about to launch Heads Together, which is a mental health campaign. And so, yeah, that was the one we we raised the one point four million dollars for.

• 52:01Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  And so, yeah, that's when it then became apparent that you and this guy are friends. And yeah, and here we are now, you know, seventeen years on, still still friends. He's only up the road. Uh, you know, things have changed. When I met him two thousand and seven, I didn't even know Alana then, you know, and, you know, and he clearly didn't know Megan at the time. So we've known each other as single guys and they've grown up together, both got married. I was fortunate to go to their wedding as well and and see each other have have grow families.

• 52:29Mark Manson?

  I noticed this when I was working with Will Smith, like people, there's a certain level of of fame or status.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:36Mark Manson?

  That makes most like when they are in the room, most people's brains just like people lose twenty IQ points.

• 52:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:45Mark Manson?

  And it's, as somebody who's just kind of fascinated with psychology, I I found it endlessly interesting to watch. Um, but I'm curious, A, how that plays into kind of thinking about security and and and your role.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:01Mark Manson?

  But I'm also, I don't know, I'm I'm, one thing that I noticed with with him and some of the people that he used to hang around with is that like it, there's actually a skill to that. Like, there actually is, there is a reason why they picked you to go with him, because some people don't seem to be able to turn that off.

• 53:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, no, sure. I've I've witnessed it before. I've seen, I've been, I've seen people just their whole attitude change when they come in the room. I'm like, what are you doing? You know, just just be normal.

• 53:27Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  And I think that's what Alana said, like, I will speak to a child on the street, uh, the same as I will speak to a role member of the family. There's no in between. And that's the thing. I think that's where it's quite unique for me. I will speak to him like, so I'm not phased by by that. But I I have seen it before and I I just, yeah, I think, as you rightly said, they pick up on that.

• 53:49Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  They know that. And that's one great thing about Harry. And I remember doing a promo video for the bike ride. And we did it in Kensington Palace. And there's a guy, Mark, who was running the running the whole, um, production. And we had four cameras. And and then Harry walked into the courtyard and Mark almost like jumped to attention, a civilian.

• 54:09Mark Manson?

  I was like, what are you doing?

• 54:12Speaker 01

  But what Harry was was great and cause they pick up on it. Harry, before we did anything, he went round and spoke to everyone.

• 54:19Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 54:19Speaker 01

  Spoke to every cameraman, spoke to everyone behind the scenes and introduced himself and and literally just put them all at ease.

• 54:25Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  So he, they, they know it. They sense it. No doubt Will senses it as well. You know, some people aren't the the same when they're in front of people. Um. But for me, yeah, I I just, I don't have a filter. I'm just like, you're, you know, and and for him, you know, that family, going back to your question, they were born into that. That's a hard life to be born into. You're constantly under the, under the spotlight. And I think that's where I saw Harry at his best because he's, he, he's not comfortable in speaking in public. He's, he's admitted he doesn't like that. And so he was most comfortable in the military because he wasn't being judged as a, as a member of a royal family. He was being judged as being an officer uh in in the military and, you know, you know, if you got things wrong, you got things wrong. If you got things right, you got things right. So. But yeah, I think they do pick up on those, those things.

• 55:08Mark Manson?

  I, and I think that skill goes both ways. That's the other thing I like. Will, there's a skill to being famous.

• 55:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:15Mark Manson?

  Like what you just said, like knowing to go around, introduce yourself to the cameraman, knowing how to

• 55:22Mark Manson?

  how to speak, you know, like understanding that your words are gonna have more weight or are gonna be interpreted in in different ways. And and what I've noticed, just being around, I guess, some of the higher, higher profile people that I've been around is that some people seem very naturally disposed to that. Like they have the personality for it. Like Will has the personality for it. He loves people. He loves, he loves chatting and schmoozing with people. Like it, it's fun for him.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:47Mark Manson?

  Some people it's not fun for. And like, and it, it, they, it feels like pressure. It feels like work. It feels like judgment. And um, so, I mean, coming back to the, to the crown, it's interesting because it's, like you said, they're born into it. And I imagine some of them are, are they handle it well. Like, you know, it's a personality thing. Some, some of them are just kind of built to like, you know, it. This is no problem. This is part of it. And some of them are like, this is terrible.

• 56:14Speaker 01

  But probably the biggest difference there, like Will probably doing it, you know, and you know, financially, you know, he's there for you, you know, he's yeah, they have to do it as a duty.

• 56:23Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  They're not getting paid for it. And they would do four or five a day.

• 56:27Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  And to keep that smile going for four or five times a day, you know, that's hard work, you know, that's probably the big difference for them is they're not financially gaining, they're doing it as a duty, as a role, as a purpose. And so that's the difficult one. Yeah.

• 56:41Speaker 02

  Well, that goes back a little bit.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  I'd smile all day, no.

• 56:44Mark Manson?

  I'll shake anybody's head, whatever.

• 56:47Speaker 02

  That's that duty thing, though, it goes back to, I didn't really get the whole royal family thing, outsider looking in and everything, but I heard Ricky Gervais one time talk about how you know, the prime minister has to go before the queen, king or queen every, every single week. And that has to be somewhat of a humbling experience for them. Whereas, you know, like we see the president of the United States is, you know, they flout Congress, they're like, you know, whatever.

• 57:10Mark Manson?

  Humbling the president of the United States.

• 57:13Speaker 02

  And that made a lot of sense to me. I was like, it just keeps it in historical context for them. And, and puts it into context where they have to be a part of something that's much larger than themselves.

• 57:25Mark Manson?

  And there's an institutional aspect of that as well. I remember, so I studied geopolitics in college and like international relations. And I remember I took a class and they, there was a class on kind of English system and the constitutional monarchy. And the professor was saying, he was like, he said, one thing that's unique, was unique about Queen Elizabeth was, you know, you can have a new prime minister come in, he thinks he's hot shit, he's got all these ideas, you know, and he explains it to the queen and she's like, well, you know what Winston told me once, you know, and like just starts pulls out the Churchill card and is like, yeah, you're not that smart.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  Probably Prime Minister number 11, don't worry about it.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  But I think with the royal family, and I talk about, you know, it's difficult for them because I think it's great keeping that history there, you know, that is very important. But obviously times are changing and quite quick, you know, and so really it's finding that balance. And sometimes they've been criticised that before because you have the old suits, like this is the way we do it. But even you have to have the modern wheels. That was why I think like, you know, if I remember rightly, like Queen Elizabeth, they did like the first ever email, didn't they? And they did the first ever like radio.

• 58:35Mark Manson?

  Yeah, her father did the radio broadcast.

• 58:38Speaker 01

  Radio broadcast, you know, they've done a lot of things for the first. And so that's why I think likes of William and Kate will be great when they they come in and take over because he needs to almost like modernise the royal family.

• 58:53Mark Manson?

  We'll get royal TikToks.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it has to be a hard balance. Yeah, yeah, so.

• 58:59Mark Manson?

  You just had a Netflix show come out?

• 59:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 59:01Mark Manson?

  Tell us about that.

• 59:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I think you and I, I think we probably met each other nearly, nearly three years ago.

• 59:07Mark Manson?

  You were just starting it.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Just starting, yeah. So literally from the initial phone call to where we are has been over three years. So, yeah, Netflix show is called toughest forces on earth. And the best way to describe it is almost like Top Gear with guns.

• 59:19Mark Manson?

  Okay.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  But we can't call it Top Guns. And so.

• 59:22Mark Manson?

  That was taken.

• 59:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's taken, yeah. And literally it's myself and two American co-hosts and we go around the world, visit eight special forces units from around the globe and we showcase what's unique about them. Whether geographically where they're placed, the threats to the country, environments that they operate in, you know, different weapon systems. And so it really just gives people an understanding of of other units around the world and some of the other capabilities that we do because people don't really get to see everything in in the special forces. So for me, I'm forty seven years old and I got injured out in a back in two thousand. I didn't think I was going to be falling through the ice or, you know, abseiling out helicopters again. So for me, it was, I thoroughly enjoyed it. But.

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  It gives people an idea of the militaries and I mean all the other skill sets that you you have and that it brings, but also recruitment.

• 1:00:15Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:15Speaker 01

  Recruitment is at an all time low around the world, apart from the US Marine Corps, I think.

• 1:00:19Mark Manson?

  Interesting.

• 1:00:19Speaker 01

  The one who's hitting their mark.

• 1:00:21Mark Manson?

  What was your favorite of the eight, there's eight of them, right?

• 1:00:24Speaker 01

  Eight.

• 1:00:25Mark Manson?

  Which, which, which was your favorite? Which was the hardest and which was your favorite?

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  So we filmed in USA, Colombia, Mexico, Austria, Sweden, Jordan, Philippines and Malaysia. So we went all the way around the world. Now, the hardest thing for me, for me, I was very fortunate, everything we, we did, we filmed, I'd done before. The only thing I hadn't done before was the swamp survival in Malaysia, where we literally were there in a pair of shorts, a weapon and just got covered in mud. Um, and so that was a new experience for me. So there's nothing that stood out that was hard. What was hard for me was the transition going from one country to another. Literally, we were doing Arctic survival in Sweden. And then next one, we're in, we're in Colombia in the jungle. So we're from minus thirty to plus thirty.

• 1:01:05Mark Manson?

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  And, and so that, and then dealing with the time zones as well. So that, that was difficult for me, but a lot of it was, uh, refreshing and revision.

• 1:01:14Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  Um, but for me, what I really took away was that you still had it, you know, that muscle memory hadn't gone too long. I needed a day or two and then you were just almost like back in the teams, which is great. Whereas for Cameron, you know, Cameron, uh, the least experience of us all. And a lot of these were new firsts to him. He'd never dived before, he'd never put skis on before, you know, and things like that. So that was a great, great experience for him.

• 1:01:36Mark Manson?

  Nice.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:01:37Mark Manson?

  Dean Stott, still got it.

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  I was slightly worried, I, I do pick up a military pension for being injured, not being able to run. And I end up beating them two on, on the sprints. I'm like, oh, don't take my pension back.

• 1:01:51Mark Manson?

  Nice, man.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:01:52Mark Manson?

  Well, thanks, dude. I'm, I'm, I'm thrilled for you. I'm glad the show, the show came out and, um, Everybody should check out the book. Anything else you want to promote? Any, I know you say you don't have a website.

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  No, we don't. I have a website. It's dean's dot com.

• 1:02:06Mark Manson?

  You have a website. The security business does not have a website.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  I've actually put a security page on there. So, you know, people need to get out, whether it's get in touch with, whether it's through security, they can find me on there. You know, as I said to you earlier, you know, the world only sees 30% of what we're doing and 70% of what we're not. But for me, I have another challenge coming up next year. I'm ocean rowing the west coast of America. It's never been done before. But we're going to start in Vancouver and finish in Tijuana. And so we've done charities, you know, human trafficking, we touched on veterans, you know, mental health, you know, we've done all that. This one is going to be for ocean conservation.

• 1:02:40Mark Manson?

  Okay.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  And to really highlight the issues there. And so next summer, so I've just bought a rowing machine. I mean, next summer I'll row the west coast of America. But the difference on this one, Alana is going to be joining me. Alana's done no, as in she has done no sport in her entire life. And she gets upset because when I did the bike ride, a lot of people were like, well, of course he could do it. He's special forces. Well, I know 99.9% of the special forces couldn't do that.

• 1:03:07Mark Manson?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  And so it's all gets overlooked because you're a special force. People assume you're a superhuman. And so what I'm doing with this is I'm taking someone who literally is a level playing field, never done anything before. And then, and then we're doing it with her.

• 1:03:21Mark Manson?

  Okay.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  So it'll either be her or it'll be one of my kids. Depends how busy we get. Yeah.

• 1:03:25Mark Manson?

  For the whole way?

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  For the whole way, which is why we're going to do it on the summer holidays.

• 1:03:29Mark Manson?

  Okay. And it's what, you're rowing and she's sitting in the back?

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  Well, no, she can row as well. It's a two seater. It's a two seater row. Yeah. But she, but it has these big cabins. Yeah. It has a cabin where you can sleep. It has a cabin which has all the communications and navigational stuff. And they have the solar panels. And so she'll probably just be on her laptop, just doing all the, all the work.

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  But no, no, she, she, she likes to, I think she's, she sees this as a good challenge. She's never done anything.

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  This is taking her out of her comfort zone. You know, I've been out of my comfort zone a lot. Uh, I think her doing it with it, she'll feel comfortable that I'm there, that you know, there's someone who's, who's, who's, uh, who's capable and I, I, I was fortunate to do my yacht masters and everything in the SBS. I, I have all those sort of, um, semen cards that we, that we need. So, uh, but yeah, it'll be interesting. You know, that'll be a big test, you know? A few weeks in the boat with your wife.

• 1:04:20Mark Manson?

  More ways than one, for sure.

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. But no, yeah, keep an eye out for that one.

• 1:04:24Mark Manson?

  Amazing. All right, man. Well, we look forward to it.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  No, thank you so much. Thank you, Adam. Appreciate it.

• 1:04:30Mark Manson?

  Yeah.