Munich Fallout: NATO, Iran, and America’s Credibility Crisis

We break down the fallout from the Munich Security Conference, the growing strain between the U. S. and Europe, and what it means for NATO’s future. We also dive into the Iran talks and the U. S. military buildup in the region, asking whether diplomacy still has a chance or if conflict is becoming inevitable. Andy's article: https://warontherocks.com/2026/01/gaza-and-the-conduct-of-urban-war-civilian-harm-risk-and-responsibility/ Montana Security Conference ⬇️ https://mi1.suitsandspooks.com/ Support the show on Patreon:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Subscribe to our new newsletter!!!! https://teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join New merch, patches, and stickers! ⬇️ https://theteamhouse-shop.fourthwall.com Check out Mick's new podcast here:⬇️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/at/podcast/pub-and-porch-applied-stoicism/id1836955475 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1k3QPmkAMwnGJxMLDwUSSd?si=n6piIu8XRcag1Z0K43A3bQ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@UCd0Hq6QFk8CoTu5j-VU0Ong Find Mick Mulroy here: Fogbow ⬇️ https://fogbow.com/ Lobo Institute ⬇️ https://www.loboinstitute.org/ Twitter ⬇️ https://x.com/mickmulroy?s=21&t=-Ze3F_Ix2vlJ18KFvORTCA LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-patrick-mulroy-31198b52/ Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/mickmulroy.bsky.social Mick’s publications ⬇️ https://www.loboinstitute.org/publications/publications-of-michael-mick-patrick-mulroy/ Find Marc P here: https://x.com/Mpolymer Find Andy Milburn here: Twitter ⬇️ https://twitter.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fandymilburn8 LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmilburn2023 Substack ⬇️ https://amilburn.substack.com/ Andy’s book ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/When-Tempest-Gathers-Mogadishu-Operations Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/andy-milburn.bsky.social Find Jason Lyons here: LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-lyons-666873316?u Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/bgsilverback73.bsky.social "Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio" 00:02 Start 03:15 Munich Security Conference: Rubio vs Vance, U. S.–Europe tensions 15:20 Can Europe go it alone? Intelligence, NATO, and military capability gaps 30:00 Iran talks in Geneva: nuclear deal, sanctions, and negotiating positions 36:30 U. S. military buildup: carriers, air defense, and the risk of war with Iran Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:30Speaker 03

  Hey, what's up, guys? This is D. Do us a favor and check out our Patreon page. It's patreon.com/the team house. You get both Team House episodes and Eyes on Geopolitics episodes completely ad-free. You get them early, too. You can ask us questions. You can also watch the Team House episodes live as we shoot them. So, and you help support the show and support what we're doing here.

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  It's patreon.com/the team house. Those links are in the description. Or if you're listening, it's in the show notes down below, so you can click it real quick and easy. And it helps us keep the lights on. So, we appreciate it and we appreciate you guys listening. Thanks a bunch.

• 2:11Speaker 03

  Everybody, welcome to another episode of Eyes on Geopolitics. I'm here today with Andy Milburn, Mark Palomaropoulos, and Mick Morroy. Some housekeeping. Mark is gonna be joining us regularly now. He's gonna be taking over my role as like host slash moderator, cuz like I never wanted to do it, and I just did it cuz the team needed it. So, I got, yeah, I'm replacing myself in terms of host. I'm still gonna be here and rule with an iron fist. Don't get it twisted, but with another Greek, and thank God, not another Marine. So, Mark, welcome.

• 2:45Speaker 04

  So, I can see we got the Greeks in the left and the Marines in the right. Is that where we're going with this?

• 2:51Speaker 05

  Then the agency at the bottom.

• 2:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:54Speaker 06

  Don't drop the soap. Too many Greeks around.

• 2:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, it's another, yeah, be careful. Be careful. It's another CIA guy, which, you know, I mean, that's what I was my order from the agency to get another CIA guy on, so we can continue the CIA propaganda here. But, no, no, no, it's, I don't know if Mark is exactly on the CIA Christmas card list or anything like that anymore. Yeah.

• 3:21Speaker 05

  He's gonna be higher on the list than that guy you had on who was now in the big house, right?

• 3:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, Dale Bendler.

• 3:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yes, thank you, Andy, for reminding us always.

• 3:34Speaker 05

  Everyone's so quiet when I pointed that out.

• 3:36Speaker 03

  I named him.

• 3:39Speaker 03

  Listen, I can't be perfect. We've had 400 episodes of the Team House. We're gonna have a couple of...

• 3:45Speaker 05

  You've only had a handful of pedophiles and traitors.

• 3:48Speaker 03

  We've had one pedo and one traitor that we know of.

• 3:53Speaker 06

  True.

• 3:53Speaker 03

  That we know of, right? We could take a look at the Epstein list. All right, Mark, take it away.

• 3:58Speaker 06

  Dee, thank you very much, Andy and Mick. It's an honor to be amongst both of you. You guys are, of course, both my friends. I've known you both for a while. Andy, you and I were on a kind of little bit of a mini jihad on a separate issue in terms of Gaza war crimes. And I will, I'm proud to have supported you on that. Did you ever do the War on the Rocks episode, by the way?

• 4:20Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, I did a podcast. It's coming out this week.

• 4:23Speaker 06

  Good. Look forward to that.

• 4:25Speaker 05

  Ryan, and written a follow-up article that, by the way, totally debunked all this ridiculous BS that those two particular guys were bringing up.

• 4:35Speaker 06

  And Mick, always an honor to be with you, of course. We have a long and assorted history together from the mountains of northern Iraq to the, what, the plains of Paktika Province in eastern Afghanistan. And Mick, your claim to fame is you were one of the two former ground branch officers who gave me a really terrible nickname in Iraq. If you remember the Fighting Lamb Shop, which I will, when I'd walk down the halls of CIA, when I'd see one of you all from your tribe, when they would scream that out, I would like duck into a corner in shame.

• 5:06Speaker 07

  Hawaii. It was about the stash.

• 5:09Speaker 06

  It's a good, I know it's good. I had some good, good, good chops going on. But let's, let's just kick off on here and just, you know, first and foremost, again, great to be with you guys. I think I've been on the Team House about a million times. So it's fun to be back and especially on Izon too. But I think the biggest kind of, the story we should start with is the, is the Munich Security Conference wrapping up today, in fact. And, you know, and, and after last year's kind of debacle where Vice President Vance basically insulted everybody on the planet, if you're in Europe, or everyone in Europe, certainly. I think Secretary Rubio and his, his speech was certainly something that people were looking forward to, to see if there was perhaps a softer tone. And I have my thoughts on this. I have a very good analogy I want to make, but I'm going to save that till after

• 5:54Speaker 06

  I get both Andy and Mick's views on that. So Andy, what are your, what are your thoughts on Munich? Yeah. Good place here. But, and what, what did Rubio accomplish or what did he not?

• 6:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, so I am, I'm, I'm going to keep my comments brief, which will please much of the audience so that I can defer to the, to you two who are, who can be able to speak far more profoundly on this topic. But I would say this, yes, uh, you know, Vance's comments last year, I think, were, were like nails on a chalkboard for most of us who have had anything to do, uh, even at the pointy end of the spear of foreign policy and, and understand a little bit of history. And I think, you know, I think this was honestly, I, I thought this was Rubio trying to draw, trying to walk the line between what in his heart of hearts, I'm not inside Rubio's heart, but in his heart of hearts, he realizes is important, the, you know, the, the, the fact that the United

• 6:48Speaker 05

  States depends on partnerships and alliances and that we represent something in Europe, uh, something that, that, you know, as Rubio points out himself, he grew up with, the, the security, stability, all of these things. Um, but at the same time, there was that pointed message, right? That Europe needs to step up to the plate to take charge of its own security, which I don't think anyone in this group would argue with, right? So it was a, it was a balancing act. It didn't, like most balancing acts, it didn't give any of the audience exactly what they wanted to hear. Uh, but at least it was, uh, a little more placatory than, than, uh, Vance's speech last

• 7:28Speaker 05

  year and didn't leave the United States looking quite, quite such an outlier.

• 7:37Speaker 06

  Nick, your thoughts?

• 7:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, we'll first start with a shameless plug. Uh, so we have, uh, we're starting the Whitefish Security Summit, um, this year in April. Hopefully all you guys will be coming out eventually. If not, this is it. It's called the Mont, it was called the Montana Intelligence Summit and now Lobo is a partner to the group. So it's now the Whitefish Security Summit. It's going to be, we hope, similar to, or I don't want to be too cocky here, but similar to the Munich, but really heavily, uh, intel and special operations. So like this year, uh, General Stan McChrystal is one of the headliners and a bunch of former senior CIA folks, but it's annual, right? So, um, we hope to have eyes on and the whole crew out here.

• 8:25Speaker 04

  Open invitation, obviously, uh, for that. Uh, but again, it's gonna, it's gonna be broad foreign policy, national security topics, but it's, it's always gonna keep its uh, kinda core uniqueness, which is special operations and CIA type spin. So, specific to the actual Munich conference, agree with Andy. Um, the issue I think if I was Europeans is everything that Vice President Vance said that was controversial is codified inside the national security strategy. So even with Rubio's, I think, a moderated tone, which I do believe is more in line with his actual philosophy. I think he's

• 9:07Speaker 04

  more of a traditional Republican on the uh, foreign policy stage. But even with that, even with his comments that were more conciliatory and more positive toward Europe and, you know, our tied heritage and everything like that. If I was a European leader, I'd still look at the strategy, right? Um, it didn't change the actual plan for the US going forward. It just uh, was a better way to present some of it. So, uh, and we saw a lot of comments from, you know, the Chancellor of Germany, Merz, and that, you know, really question US leadership going forward. And I think we saw that from several countries. Obviously, some European countries like Denmark are

• 9:51Speaker 04

  super upset about the whole Greenland thing not to go down that road, but there's a lot of resentment in Europe right now, uh, toward the US. Um, it was probably, and I'm not saying a lot of it isn't earned. I mean, I agree with Andy, they kinda didn't take their security serious. They thought, okay, we have the big brother that is the United States, so we can spend on social programs, right? Um, that's, that shouldn't have been the case, but now I think primarily because Russia invaded Ukraine, Europe is taking its security serious. Uh, and my last points on that part, um, we need Europe, we need our basing in Europe. It's actually super beneficial to the United States.

• 10:34Speaker 04

  If not, we have big problems projecting force around the world. If you take out all the European uh, basing and access and the fact that we have pre-stage. Forces there. Also, Europe, even though it's, you know, as I just said, not taking its security serious is now, it's going to be the partner that we always wanted. Right? It's in the future. So that's even more of a reason. In addition to longstanding ties and being the pinnacle of our security structure since the end of World War Two, they're going to be even more on par with what we wanted soon, right? These countries are spending a lot more on their own

• 11:14Speaker 04

  security and eventually they will be the partners that we always wanted and we don't want to rupture the relationship

• 11:24Speaker 04

  at a time when that's going to happen. It would make no sense for the US. We'd actually have to spend way more on our national security if we didn't have the strong partners and allies that I think we've always had in Europe. And yes, they might have neglected some of their own defense, but let's not forget that they did go to war with us for 20 years after Article Five was triggered after September 11. So they are the partners, I think,

• 11:49Speaker 04

  you know, philosophically, and they're going to be the partners that we want practically in the sense that I think they're, they're taking their security very serious right now. And, and also, remember, Ukraine is still fighting Russia. Russia's only taken 20% of their territory and they've basically fought them to a draw. Right? That's one country in Europe, not NATO, but one country in Europe who's probably now the most effective fighting force in Europe right now. And I think the lessons learned need to be brought into the rest of NATO. We just heard about this NATO exercise where the Ukrainians essentially wiped the floor with NATO. Right? That needs to be incorporated into

• 12:31Speaker 04

  European NATO and that needs to be a benefit to the United States. So anyway, I'm getting on a diatribe here, but these are all the things that I'm sure were discussed on the sidelines of NATO and hopefully the US delegation understands this.

• 12:47Speaker 06

  So, you know, one of the things that, that I think I always try to find kind of an interesting analogy that, that kind of the layperson can use. So I'm going to throw this out here. I'm going to use it later on on some TV hits. And so Mick, I want to see if you do as well. We can kind of compare this.

• 13:02Speaker 06

  This to me is like, and this is not reflective of my current relationship. I'm happily married. So let's go back to college. When you get a middle of the night drunk text from your ex-girlfriend. Saying, "Hey, I want to come over." And it's all giddy and you have a great time, but then you wake up the next morning and you realize, "What the hell did I just do?" The Europeans kind of embrace of this, the standing ovation, I thought was a little preposterous because, you know, this is the whole idea of signal versus noise. So Rubio had a nicer speech. Well, great. That's your ex-girlfriend calling you up and saying, "Hey, I want to get back together tonight." But the next morning, when you realize, "Well, wait a second. My ex-girlfriend is really maybe not a nice person."

• 13:47Speaker 06

  And I think that's what's happening right now. I talked to some European officials who were actually leaving Munich right now, and they said, "Look, we're trying to kind of understand what happened here, but I think that some of that initial, 'Oh, my God, the big relief.'" I think at the Munich Security Conference, like, said, "This is a sigh of relief." I found that to be preposterous because you're not talking about actual facts on the ground. And if you take a... So Rubio's tone was nicer. Got it. Vance was a total jerk last year, but if you look at actually what was said, the substance of it was not all that different. And there's a couple of pieces of this too, which I still think are a bit weird and insulting. I mean, you know, this whole idea that Rubio talks about, and the State Department tweeted this out, about, "Let's, you know, we have to celebrate

• 14:30Speaker 06

  our old heritage." I mean, you know, that's like a dog whistle for some weird shit in terms of kind of white nationalism. The notion of the US now supporting think tanks in Europe that kind of promote the far right. I mean, look where Rubio then jetted off to Slovakia, and then he's going to Hungary. The two European countries that actually are not for unity, Ukraine, for example. And so, you know, I'm looking at you guys. You didn't like my analogy about the girlfriend thing, the middle-of-the-night text. I didn't like that. I thought it was great. Okay. He likes it. Good.

• 15:03Speaker 04

  I've been married for 32 years, man. I don't even... I mean, I went to high school with my wife.

• 15:08Speaker 06

  Don't you get dumped in college by someone like middle-of-the-night, and you went back to them, and you realize the next morning how stupid it was? Yeah.

• 15:13Speaker 04

  I understand the concept.

• 15:14Speaker 06

  Dee, that happened to you last night.

• 15:17Speaker 05

  They just had a concert.

• 15:19Speaker 06

  No concert, no concert.

• 15:20Speaker 05

  One girlfriend and one wife. Kind of abused spouse syndrome.

• 15:24Speaker 06

  Okay, that was the other one, Andy.

• 15:25Speaker 05

  It was, uh, thank, you know, thank God, we're not going to listen to another brow beating session. And by the way, I, yeah, absolutely agree with all you guys. And I think we should probably get someone who's really obtuse on this show so that we have more argument. Uh, you know, I'd like to point out too, because I'm hearing, I, you know, there's this undercurrent of, yep, we, we told them and now they're really fixing house. No, they started fixing house in 2022 and the message came not from us, it came from the Russians. That is when Sweden and Finland, I mean, that is when, you know, Finland decided to join NATO. That is when, um, Poland made the decision to up their, uh, their defense spending, you know, and it's Yeah, they did.

• 16:11Speaker 05

  And is already one of the, uh, you know, the leading countries in Europe as far as military strength. Um, and if you look at the rhetoric coming from France too, and Germany, it, it all started there in early 2022. Uh, yes, the US may have

• 16:28Speaker 05

  may have thrown cold water on, uh, and on any, any lingering belief that the United States was behind it all on the side of freedom and all of this. Uh, but, but that wake up call was already under effect. Thanks to, thanks to Putin.

• 16:44Speaker 06

  Mick, let me ask you a quick question about our old world, the, the intel world and then, and then Andy too. We can, we'll, we'll go to, get onto another topic right after this, but one last piece because it has to do with European agency. And that's the notion of how much can Europe actually go it alone? I mean, one of the things that, that, that kind of struck me is that there's still this, this notion of dependency. But, but the dependency, if you think about it, uh, is probably in the intelligence sphere and things like, like big items such as satellite, you know, ISR, things, things in which, you know, perhaps Europe can't, uh, uh, you know, uh, deliver to Ukraine as much as, as we can. But how much of that is actually true? I don't know the answer to this. Um, uh, but I, but with the amount that Europe is actually providing to Ukraine now, I mean, the fact that they're not at

• 17:27Speaker 06

  the negotiating table is preposterous and why the US is even leading doesn't even make any sense since we're not giving them any, we're selling weapons to NATO under the Pearl program to get to Ukraine. We're not giving Ukrainians anything. But, but let Mick, just start with you quickly on the intel side. How much independence can Europe actually seek to get? Which would and because in some ways, I think maybe the solution to all of this is actually Trump gets bored, the US goes home, and then Europe actually does fully take over. Because then you'd have a much more kind of equitable idea of your support for Ukraine as being critical to Europe.

• 18:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I mean, intel, like all the security, the our partners around the world, not just in Europe, right, they rely heavily somewhere, as you and I did, knows this, right? Because basically, they teach a lot of their chiefs basically how to get information from the CIA station chief, right? And it's not just human intelligence, it's, you know, the functioning role of DNI, right, representative. So it's going to take a long time to replace that, but I believe from talking to several friends, both in Canada, it's just 40 minutes that way, and then in Europe, and then even in the Far East, they're planning to do so. They're planning to do so because we've already had a few circumstances with the US's threat

• 18:46Speaker 04

  to cut off or having actually has cut off intelligence, and that shot a shot across the bow that, you know, I mean, if you put yourself, any of us in their shoes, would you ever want to be in that position again? Right? So it's, again, I think it's going to create a more independent ally and partner group for the United States, but how we do it matters. And, you know, we're going to have a lot less leverage in the future for what we would like to see, which sometimes it needs cajoling with our allies and partners to go along with, when they become completely independent, and they did it in this manner. You know what I mean? By force, by threatening to cut off intel during, you know, a war,

• 19:31Speaker 04

  for example, in Ukraine. So I think that's going to be a pretty substantial issue going forward. I do think all these countries are looking at it, but it's not just intel. What else did the Europeans rely heavily on? Well, Europe does have nuclear weapons, but they don't have anything near what the US have, like 500 compared to thousands in the US. So there's already countries, especially the Nordic countries, and the countries that don't have them, they're talking about acquiring nuclear weapons. And now that we've Jumped out of this, the new START treaty, essentially didn't renew it or extend it. That sends a message, right? It doesn't mean that every European country can end up with a nuclear weapon.

• 20:12Speaker 04

  But it certainly says that we are not, you know, entirely interested in stemming the potential for a nuclear arms race, right? And I don't know that we're even negotiating on a new one. Although that was the issue, you know, including China and such. I know that's not, it's, I, I view these a lot together. So intel is an issue for the Europeans. All of their security is, and I think they're going to relook at it. Again, if we did this right, we come up with, we come out with stronger partners. Like we would be going to our, you know, fellow chiefs of, you know, the intel services and getting information, more information from them, right? But, you know, one of the big issues, of course, you just said, and that is a lot of our intel is up there, right? So, and that is expensive.

• 20:56Speaker 04

  So they have to be ready to, you know, start spending a lot more on their national security and defense, which might mean less, you know, available for their own social programs. But that's the decision they have to make. But it seems like they're being forced to make it right now.

• 21:10Speaker 06

  Andy, on the special operations side, one of the things, I, I was just in London for a couple of days and I, you know, I actually made it to the venerable special forces there, which is kind of a cool place. And, and one of the things that, you know, i- when you talk to European national security folks kind of on, you know, in the background, they're very hesitant, especially the Brits to say anything is, is the role, for example, of the British special operations community and SAS and others in Ukraine, who I think have done incredible work. I think they actually were probably more forward leaning than the Americans. I just based on the limits that the US placed on our, our folks. But talk a little bit about the special operations capability of, of European governments, because I think that's, that's something that we don't hear a lot about. No one, but I guess no one writes books on it.

• 21:53Speaker 06

  But I think it's pretty, pretty significant and could play a factor in, in the future as well. I mean, think about the, the Poles, the Estonians, they're some badasses in these countries. They've done some really crazy shit. Everything I hear on this, I, I don't, I can't confirm any of this, but I think they're out there. So, you know, what do you, what do you, what's your, what's your view on their, their countries? Kind of capabilities now and then going forward, if the US is going to take a step back?

• 22:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's, I mean, that's a great question. I think.

• 22:20Speaker 05

  I will not not think, but you know, here are the facts that that the UK definitely has been more involved in Ukraine than than the US on a special operations side. They have deployed continuously a SAS squadron to Ukraine since late 2022. What exactly those guys are doing, of course, isn't isn't open source information, but you know, there's a good deal of training, but there's also assistance with with tactical intelligence collection, drones, you know, precision strike at the at the tactical level,

• 23:02Speaker 05

  as well as a conduit of intelligence collection from from ground up, which is intelligence dissemination, rapid dissemination, collection dissemination has been a problem in Ukraine. And so the SAS are probably, remember, I'm speculating here, enabling that. To your wider question, you know, we always pride ourselves on having the most capable special operations forces in the world, and of course, we do blah, blah, blah, but it is a massive enterprise, right? You know, there's like 70,000 people in SOCOM. It's not, it's not particularly cost effective. The the Brits do this very well, and and they do it by with a kind of a different view of special operations.

• 23:47Speaker 05

  So what they call special operations, or rather, special forces, and let's not get into this whole Green Beret bullshit about what special forces are, because they have a different, in the UK, special forces, special operations are used interchangeably. And so you've got a very, you know, you've got, essentially, you've got the, what's it called, the SR, it's, I'm gonna get carved up for forgetting the acronym here, but there are, you know, they're, they're, the unit that they turned one parent into, it's SS, SRRG, it's, it's.

• 24:26Speaker 05

  You've got them and then you've got the SAS and SBS. And, and that's essentially it, right? And, and so there you've got obviously a, an exquisite, very potent ability. Not, this isn't all about door kicking anymore. As, as you guys know, it's, it's mostly about special reconnaissance. And that combination, the SAS, SPS and, and the SSRG or SSRG are, are, they wield, you know, they, they, they punch way above their weight in doing that. But that's, again, that's quite a small force. But what the Brits do well, as far as conventional force, that is us,

• 25:08Speaker 05

  are they, they have institutionalized the ability to work by with and through other forces. So foreign internal defense is considered one of the mission essential tasks of any, of any battalion. And the Brits also have formed a Ranger Regiment, whose specific purpose is focusing on military assistance, which is training foreign militaries. So in their aggregate, all right, still fewer numbers than SOCOM, even when you add, you know, all of these assets together, far fewer. But a, but a significant capability. And, and they are heavily embedded in Ukraine. I would say the Brits are foremost, you know.

• 25:47Speaker 08

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  So join us and hear their stories and more. Because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 26:44Speaker 11

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down rather than giving teens the answer. Study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 27:11Speaker 12

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• 27:39Speaker 05

  I think that's indisputable in Europe as far as wielding that capability. And they understand, they also have a couple of advantages on their side. They're not quite, they're not, there was no church commission in the UK, right? So they don't always have to declare what the SAS is doing. And the chain of command goes very directly from the Director of Special Forces up to cabinet level. So you've got a, not just a really exquisite tool, but one that can be used without a lot of deliberation and frankly, not a huge amount of accountability, which is the pros and cons, right?

• 28:24Speaker 05

  Now, you mentioned the Poles, and we know, thanks to Sean Naylor and our own Jack, that the Poles have been up to good inside Russia itself, or at least that's what the evidence indicates that the Poles are doing a lot of things that are pretty active against the Russians and have been doing that for years. And so, yeah, the Polish, Polish Special Forces, the Grom et al., are not particularly big, but they have significant experience, regional experience. They know how to operate effectively in Russian territory itself. They've proven that. And that's something that...

• 29:09Speaker 05

  We in the US don't have either. So, you know, round off my my answer to your question and the French too are very capable. You know, it's all tier one, but they have very capable special operation force to. Their their use in support of the Ukraine conflict unknown. But bottom line, yeah, Europe Europe feels a a really capable special operations capability. You know, I I just like to add to what you guys said to the, you know, the what what does why does Europe need the United States? And they have indeed been strength bolstering that capability since two thousand and twenty two. They probably, you know, and I I would say they rely on us still for ISR right at the strategic level.

• 29:51Speaker 05

  No one has the same long range strike and and air superiority as as the US, although Europe's trying to get there with Eurofighter. You know, in the grip and air defense and and sea ad. Although the Norwegians and Germans have pretty advanced system, they still. Lean on US technologies and architectures in in NATO now, whether whether they need to do that for much longer. I I I doubt. And then you have joint command and control, right? If NATO goes to war, NATO Europe has so many multiple collaboration communication frameworks. But lax and fully integrated kind of battle management C two, joint C two comparable to us. So that's that's where they're going to rely on us.

• 30:36Speaker 05

  The last thing I'll say, though, is some areas like industrial defense capacity for things. That are really required in the Ukraine war, Europe is ahead of us, you know, creating. Manufacturing of drones, expendable drones, one five five munitions. Because they don't have such a laborious acquisition process and because their industry is already tuned to to turning out these these things.

• 31:03Speaker 06

  So let me let me just kind of close this uh uh segment on the on the Munich Security Conference. I think with notion, I think everyone here would agree that, you know, national security is a team sport.

• 31:12Speaker 06

  And, you know, we need our European allies, they need us. But I still think it remains to be seen the level of US commitment to the alliance. And one, one other kind of final point is, you know, Rubio goes and he makes nice, softer tone. All of this can be blown up in one truth post, X post, whatever it is by Trump, if he wants to, you know, invade Greenland or say something insulting to NATO partners. So the other part is has to do with the reliability issue. So everyone's going to kind of maybe be a little happier right now, leaving Munich, but I'm certainly not sure if it's sustainable. Mick, let me just turn to you with the kind of this, the second subject for, for today's podcast, which is the Tuesday talks in Geneva. Hey, by the way, maybe we can have some peace talks in, in Whitefish one day.

• 31:56Speaker 06

  If you crush this security conference, you know, you're going to hold in the summer, we can have a Whitefish summit, but right now it's the Geneva summit. And so, so it's Iran on the table, Jared Kushner and Steve Whitkoff, the US envoys for everything under the sun, including when the next Super Bowl is going to be played, or it's my own stupid quip, are going to be there. And kind of the big question, I think, and perhaps Mick, you're in a perfect position to ask, is not in the sense of, of, you know, what is going to happen a month from now? We don't really know, but what do you think the Iranian negotiating position is going to be? Because all eyes are really, you know, in my view at least,

• 32:37Speaker 06

  to see if the Iranians are going to give even just a little bit, just enough to have these negotiations continue. There are some indications that the US has kind of softened some of the positions on the zero enrichment of uranium. It's caused a bit of a stink in the national security world because, you know, Trump at one point said, no, no enrichments allowed, but I think that might be on the table. Do you think the Iranians are going to come with anything that would be required to actually have negotiations continue? And then we'll get on to the last, the next piece, which is actually critical in terms of the US military buildup. But first and foremost, the Iranian position in your view. Mick, you, I mean, this is what you did in the past at DOD, not only at the agency, but, you know, Iran was front and center on your portfolio as, when you were kind of running the Middle East shop.

• 33:23Speaker 06

  You're muted.

• 33:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:25Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 33:26Speaker 04

  All right. I didn't do anything. But yes, you're right, Mark. So we would like to pull out of the JCPOA when I was there. DoD, by the way, was more inclined to stay in and then address issues like proxy force support, ballistic missile program separately. Maybe there is still an element in there talking about that. And maybe that's one of the reasons why it does appear the US has softened a bit. Remember, Secretary Rubio was like, has to include no enrichment, nuclear, proxy force support, ballistic missile capacity and human rights is where he started before these negotiations started.

• 34:07Speaker 04

  I think we're now at least pretty close on, at least we're focusing more on nuclear. And I think that's one of the issues why Prime Minister Netanyahu got in a plane and came early, right? Came early and stood right next to the Oval Office door until, you know, he was let in. Is Israel, of course, doesn't want to see an agreement between the United States and in Iran. That that is anything less than very, very stringent that addresses, I think, all of the above. I think the US is more inclined to compromise. And to be frank, that's what negotiations are. If you can't compromise and chances of successful negotiation are very slim. So I think both the US and obviously Iran should be willing to do that.

• 34:51Speaker 04

  And the, and we'll get into the significant force buildup, but all this is happening as, you know, another aircraft carrier strike group, the USS Gerald Ford is on route to the region, right? Huge capacity added to another huge capacity. And then we'll get into the details, just how much they have looking down the barrel, so to speak, literally at them when it comes to these negotiations. The, I think politically, the issue is going to be, it has to be more stringent than the original JCPOA, right? They, if he gets back into the same agreement, he will, he'd be in the President of the United States will be like, well, what was that all about? Right? You know? And that's a fair criticism, if that's the case.

• 35:36Speaker 04

  So he has to get it more stringent. I imagine there's going to be more of a. A testing and validation program that we know exactly what they're doing and not doing. I think the US is still gonna go in with a zero enrichment, potentially throw on the table, bring in enriched uranium for civilian purposes done somewhere else, right? If it's truly about, you know, using enriched uranium for medical purposes, then it's about the actual medical purpose, not necessarily your ability to produce it yourself. So there's, I think there's a lot of room there. And of course, they're gonna wanna see the uranium that's been enriched to 60%,

• 36:17Speaker 04

  not needed at all for civilian purposes, removed from the country and maybe brought to Russia or Turkey. That's been on the table in the past. But I do think lots riding on it. I don't think we have a date yet, but it's this week in Geneva. Hopefully, you know, Mr. Witkoff and Mr. Kushner bring in some of these real experts, potentially going back to the original discussions. This is incredibly complex, incredibly technically detailed set of negotiations. And if you don't have that expertise and listen to them, of course, you might not end up with the agreement you think you're getting, kidding, right? So being on Team USA, I think it's important that that happens

• 37:00Speaker 04

  and that we get the smartest people, at least maybe not at the table, but behind the people at the table, either way is good. And, uh, and see if we can't solve this diplomatically. Because this is, I, in my opinion, heading toward a military confrontation if it's not decided that way. I just don't think the US would send this level of, of, uh, you know, military power to the region, lose at the negotiations and then just turn them around and send them home. I don't see that happening. So this is either gonna go the diplomatic path or probably the military path.

• 37:32Speaker 06

  Andy, let me, let me, I'm gonna ask you in one second about the military buildup and what it means and if we have enough forces there. But there's one thing I just wanna kind of throw out there too, for both you. All of us here have been involved in promises made and promises broken to our allies. You know, Mick, you and I were up with the Kurds. I remember having discussions with our Kurdish partners. And of course, at one point, one of them, and you know who it is, I won't say his name, but he reminded me that, you know, the Kurds have been lied to and betrayed me just about everybody and they fully expected us to do it again. And we did. Same thing with the Syrian opposition with Obama's red line, you know, we Afghan or Afghan partners in Afghanistan, we can go on and on. And I raise this because of President Trump's

• 38:14Speaker 06

  several weeks ago saying, quote, "Help was on the way. Iranian protesters stay out on the streets." And so one of the things, and this is not saying I advocate for a military option or operation, but if there was a diplomatic solution, which would include, even if you could call it a good deal, the regime stays in place.

• 38:33Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 38:33Speaker 06

  And can you not understand that we've then betrayed the Iranian protesters who are out in the streets? That rubs me wrong. Is it enough to go to war with Iran? I don't know, but there's just a part of that. I just want to kind of throw that out there. And, and both of you, in a second, when I turn back to you, both of you can comment on that kind of ethics and morality of it. But, but Andy, do, do kind of jump in in terms of the force structure. Um, or you know, uh, because I think when Trump made those statements several weeks ago, we didn't have the right forces in place. But I guess the question is, do we have the right forces in place now? And, and comment on the notion that was, that, of course, an anonymous US official said the other day is, is that the military campaign might take weeks. Um, uh, you know, I guess, is that sustainable?

• 39:15Speaker 06

  Do the American people support this? I mean, it seems like, you know, we're so obsessed, but rightfully so, with things like the Epstein files and Minnesota and ICE. We're heading down to potentially a major war in the Middle East like that we haven't seen for some time. Um, Andy, take it away.

• 39:31Speaker 05

  Yeah. So, you know, first of all, I just want to follow up on something Mick said that if these talks are, in order for them to be successful, they have to be, they have to go into a great deal of detail. I mean, even if they were just exclusively focused on Iran's nuclear capability, the monitoring of that, uh, and, and linked to sanctions relief, uh, some kind of a progressive plan for sanctions relief that lifts sanctions once, uh, you know, actions are verified on the Iranian side. I mean, this is That itself is very complex. I think all of us here, if I can speak for you guys, would like to see, you know, the big problem with the Jukpoa.

• 40:14Speaker 05

  One of the problems was that it did not address proxies at all. And it looks as though maybe we're going down that path now, right? But all of us know that that, as far as direct threat to US interests, it is Iran's use of proxies in the region. That's even greater arguably than possession of a nuclear weapon. I know I'll be challenged on that. But the proxies have given us a headache for, you know, since the eighties. And, and so, you know, most people would say, why would we walk away? We've got everything in the region. And to your point about, are we ready to go to war? We are absolutely ready to go to war. When you look at, if you order a battle there in the Middle East, it's got everything.

• 40:56Speaker 05

  The sustained air operations, I mean sustained air operations. We are talking about weeks, both land-based and, and carrier-based aircraft. We have a significant, obviously, non-kinetic capability out there too, which, you know, EW in particular, which we would use regardless in any sort of campaign. And I'm sure that there are cyber options lined up too. And most importantly, we've sent air defense batteries and we've almost emptied. When you look at our inventory and you look what our commitments are elsewhere, places like Korea, we have pretty much emptied our inventory of air defense batteries and sent them all to the Middle East,

• 41:42Speaker 05

  which has been a double-edged sword because that in particular, I think, is what has caused the Israelis to change their mind. You remember in early January, when, when the president was saying, yeah, we're coming to your rescue. Remember Netanyahu actually said, hey, revolutions are best carried out internally, right? The Israelis were cautious, they were concerned about the prospect of regional war. Now, when they've seen, I'm only guessing, that the number of assets that are stacked up in the region, especially air defense, which they care about very much, their tune has changed.

• 42:18Speaker 05

  You know, the, so yes, in answer to your question, we are absolutely prepared. And, and there is. There is two, I mean, no, no one can, no one can really answer your question, everyone's question about are we, are we going to go to war? But even our allies in the region have pointed out that, yeah, there's kind of a credibility factor here too. In other words, we need to raise the bar on these talks and, and, and include things other than nuclear agreement if, you know, aside from proxies, we need to talk about ballistic missile threats, right?

• 42:53Speaker 06

  Israelis care about the most, in fact.

• 42:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, absolutely. And, and so that needs to be on the table. We have to force the back, and I don't want to mean to sound like a hawk. I think, you know, there are many downsides to a, to a regional conflict, but there is a point up here about credibility, rhetoric matching what we intend to do. And what we intend to do can be quite rational and reasonable if we want it to be, but we do have to address those two additional threats other than nuclear, potential nuclear capability.

• 43:24Speaker 06

  You know, Mick, you're, and I, and I say this honestly, you're a better man than me in terms of your ethics and morals as a CIA officer. I mean, you are one of the most moral and ethical people I've ever met in, in our place.

• 43:35Speaker 05

  Mark, clearly that's true when now we've heard about your college years.

• 43:39Speaker 06

  Yes, I know. But, but I do want to get, you know, that, that notion of kind of betrayal and ethics and morality of making a promise like Trump did. I mean, you, you, that promise was so front and center and the Iranian people responded. You know, what are your thoughts on that? You know, if there's a, even if it's a really good deal, but the regime stays in power, you know, how does that sit with you? Cause that bugs me.

• 44:02Speaker 04

  I can see why it bugs you. I mean, in order to be the leader of the free world, you have to promote freedom and democracy in part of the world that's not free, right? It's not just, it's not just criticizing Europe, right? You're actually supposed to promote democracy over autocracy. And that is what the president was essentially doing when he was talking about supporting the protests, you know, help is on the way. So the second part of, you know, promoting, being the leader of a free world is be careful what you say, right? So, you know, walk softly and carry a big stick. We obviously have the stick, but people rarely pay attention to what the US says and because we have the, you know, the most dominant military in the world and we have traditionally, historically been the leader of.

• 44:47Speaker 04

  You know, individual liberties and democracy and which is what I believe the protests are primarily about. I mean, there's a lot of reasons for the protests in Iran. Yes, I get it's economic, but there's a lot of groups that have been promoting, you know, women's rights and the rights of, you know, ethnic minorities and, you know, go down the list. Will the US be portraying that? Potentially, yes, but if we would have taken out the, you know, those comments. I still think we should support the protests, but we're not going to go in militarily. Uh, and do a regime change that US has learned our lesson. Iran would be, I don't know, 10, 20 times more difficult than Iraq, for example.

• 45:27Speaker 04

  Therefore, 20 times more cost prohibitive and we'd lose thousands of people. And so I just don't think the US is willing to do that. And I just regime change from the air is almost an impossibility, right? And then, of course, the question is, even if you said, well, I'll just drop a bomb on, you know, the Ayatollah. Well, I mean, doesn't it mean that who replaced him isn't just going to be worse, right? So I think there's a, I think we should have a very practical view of it, but be careful what we say. And I do think we should support the protesters, just not by military action. So we've got two things. We've got the threat of military action trying to lead to a better agreement.

• 46:05Speaker 04

  Nuclear agreement, which to be fair, is in the regime's interest because it'll get the economic sanctions removed, which is a predominant purpose of the, of the protests. Right? So the, um, in a way, although I think we should be negotiating, we should try to get to a better nuclear agreement. It's going to be, it's going to run counter uh, to the actual protests. Who are going to have left over reason to revolt and the regime's going to be stronger and they're going to be allowed to sell their oil. If they don't, um, there's secondary sanctions that the, the administration is looking at to try to prevent China from buying. I mean, it's, there's all, all sorts of things that'll make the economic circumstances in Iran even worse if these negotiations don't happen. But it's a fair point.

• 46:46Speaker 04

  You know, I think the United States, even if we get an agreement, should do everything we can to promote legally, of course.

• 46:54Speaker 04

  Freedom and democracy in Iran, but that's predominantly going to have to come from the Iranians.

• 47:01Speaker 06

  Let me do something I actually I told myself in my notes today I would not do, but I'm still going to do anyhow. Again, it's prediction, which is not a great idea to do. But what do you think, Andy? Let me start with you. Military confrontation with Iran or no? Just given everything you know right now.

• 47:16Speaker 05

  I think there will eventually be military confrontation with Iran. It may not follow in the next days or even weeks, but I think there will. I cannot imagine, frankly, and I know this sounds very down, very pessimistic, but I can't imagine an agreement that's going to satisfy that we can monitor, United States can monitor effectively, that's going to satisfy our concerns. And I can't imagine Iran agreeing to such an agreement. They may do so just for the sake of deliberation and sanctions relief, but I don't think they're going to follow through.

• 47:56Speaker 05

  So that's why I think some kind of confrontation, military confrontation is inevitable.

• 48:03Speaker 06

  Mick, your thoughts?

• 48:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, so the Iranians never seem to miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, in my opinion. Right? So they seem like they're headed in the right way. You can, you know, if you remove yourself as a partisan in it, you can see why it would be to their advantage to get a nuclear agreement, a new one, because of these massive sanctions that are on it and what it's doing to their grip on power, if you will, even if you're just looking at it from their perspective. But they seem incapable of understanding that. They seem like they really believe that having a nuclear weapon will make the regime impervious to being overthrown, without thinking that like, there's no way that Israel alone, let alone the United States,

• 48:48Speaker 04

  is going to allow that to happen. They're just going to, and we've already seen that Israel has the capacity to go in there, eradicate their air and missile defense, eradicate their air force, and basically own the skies. So if I was looking at it from their point of view, I'd say, well, we're only giving, we're not even giving up something that we can actually acquire. Because they're not going to let us acquire it. So why not give it up so we can, you know, bolster the economy, bolster our position here. If I'm in the regime, I'd want to stay there. Uh, but I don't think they'll do it. I think they'll come up with yet another reason to scuttle this thing with, with this idea they're staying almost half pregnant, right? They're in the worst possible position. I don't know if this is good analogy, but they, they, they don't have a nuclear weapon to use, but they look like they're trying to acquire one because it's way above

• 49:33Speaker 04

  uh, the need for civilian use. So they, they're basically making themselves a target and a legitimate target, in my opinion. Yet they're, uh, you know, there's really no path forward other than an agreement that would relieve uh, the sanctions and, and, and basically acknowledge they're never going to get to nuclear weapon. So that's a long way of saying that I think this probably will fail unfortunately. Certainly not pulling for it. And then the US either will get tired of negotiations dragging out and start using the actual force to be uh, an influencer. Or they'll just fall apart. And I do agree with Andy, they're setting up. I mean, we've got like eight destroyers, six cruisers. We're going to have two aircraft carrier strike, multiple squadrons of

• 50:17Speaker 04

  fighter jets. I imagine from what I'm hearing from media that, you know, there's been a lot of preparatory warning orders given to our strategic bomber command. I mean, this could be a very long sustained, multi-week campaign to not only degrade the nuclear programs, to target uh, ballistic missiles, particularly the launchers, of course. You can have a lot of missiles, no launchers, doesn't make any difference. Um, and maybe even a regime target. So maybe he'll address the point you just asked me about. Uh, Mark and say, okay, I'm going to target some of the regime because of what they've done, killing thousands of protesters and jailing tens of thousands.

• 50:53Speaker 06

  I'm not so sure. So I'm going to take a little bit of a different tact, only in, you know, if, uh, you know, we all kind of look at the criminology of, of the Trump administration. Um, I think there's too many people in there who are not in favor of this from the MAGA world, but also Trump seems to like these kind of quick, easy decisive wins. The Soleimani strikes, first administration, Maduro. Couple hours, the, the strike on the Iranian nuclear program. Again, incredible strike, you know, one day at most. And I would imagine that, you know, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs and others are telling Trump, hey, this could be sustained over weeks. And I don't know if he has the appetite to do that. And certainly the, I don't know if the American people do as well. I think there is some domestic politics involved in this. We've been kind of sleeping, sleepwalking in here.

• 51:37Speaker 06

  So I'm not so sure he has the stomach for this, but we'll see. But Dee, I gotta throw it to you. What do you think?

• 51:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, so listen, the goal of like, uh, doing this, like a sustained week, uh, weeks long campaign bombing Iran outside of like totally trying to actually destroy their nuclear program. What's the fucking point again? Just to get them back to the, the negotiation table and like, maybe fingers crossed, we maybe make the regime collapse? Like, that's the reasoning, but like, to me, that reasoning outside of the nuclear problem, uh, doesn't make any sense as like a layman, uh, domestic, you know, civilian here.

• 52:17Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At The Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 52:31Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant. So I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 52:42Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you, you're not alone.

• 52:47Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 52:53Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

• 53:13Speaker 11

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 53:40Speaker 12

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of 5-star Trust Pilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 54:08Speaker 06

  I would throw into that, too, that, you know, and, you know, maybe we can close on this, on this note. Do you guys agree that there, I mean, there should be a Trump address to the American people? I mean, good lord, we're going down the road of a major, major military campaign. Congress is, is sleeping. I would, I would imagine you're going to see calls for War Powers Resolution stuff, but what about at least explaining to the American people what in the heck we're doing? And by the way, if it's going to be a sustained campaign, and this is the horrible part of this, we're going to lose people. The idea that this is going to be kind of pain-free, which so many of these, I think Trump's gotten lucky with a couple of these military operations because nothing, you know, really bad has happened to US forces. But, you know, if you take the country to war over sustained, you know, multi-week campaign, we're going to lose some servicemen

• 54:51Speaker 06

  and women. So do you think that Trump has to then make this case to the American people? Andy?

• 54:56Speaker 05

  I think that would be absolutely leadership, right? That's, that's what presidents do. Do I think? It's gonna happen and do I think ultimately it matters? That's a different question. I don't think and here's why I don't think it matters. I don't think the American public gives a shit about what goes on, about what the US military is doing overseas. Now, I may have overstated that. I think they would be upset if we got involved in a, you know, an attritional ground war. But strikes, I don't think it means anything to them. I mean, you know, the, and, and I frankly, I don't think it means that much to Congress either.

• 55:36Speaker 05

  I think the, the average representative does not understand his or her role in the process. The checks and balances. And, and I think, and you know, we saw this atrophy over 20 years, Iraq and Afghanistan. We've talked about this, the AUMF being continuously expanded without any real discussion or deliberation. I think we're at a point where no one has skin in the game. I mean, really, you know, the American public's focused on the economy and focus on what's happening domestically. The average representative, as far as having people who are in the military within their constituents or families of those within the military, they, they're always going to be a minority.

• 56:18Speaker 05

  And, and so there's no real incentive to, to challenge what the executive is doing, regardless of party. That's sadly where, where I am on. So to answer your question, I don't think that the administration will feel a compulsion to talk directly to the American people. And I don't think that by and large, the American public cares either.

• 56:39Speaker 06

  Well, that's a heck of a place to end. That's a depressing note. I hope they would do it, but maybe you're right on that.

• 56:44Speaker 03

  Andy, I don't know, man, because like,

• 56:48Speaker 03

  you're right, you're probably, you're right. Most people don't give a shit in terms of, especially if like, we don't have 100,000 troops there and hundreds of billions of dollars being wasted. But like, it is a midterm election year and I could totally, if I'm a political strategist or ad maker, I'm making like whoever's not saying anything, there's ways to like nudge people along into like, this Trump was supposed to be the president to end all wars and do that. And he's bombing everybody he could find, you know, anybody like you pointed on a map, he'll help do it. I'm just saying like, there is like a wedge there, there is like an angle there, I guess, to like, to put pressure on congressmen, especially if, I mean, Congress has been feckless for the last.

• 57:36Speaker 03

  Last year and a half, year or whatever, they have done nothing specifically when it comes to Venezuela or they punted it multiple times.

• 57:45Speaker 03

  So I don't know, most people don't give a shit, obviously. They care about their Netflix and their TikTok and stuff, but I don't know. I think there are ways to move the balance a little.

• 57:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, and I know we're wrapping it up here. I agree with you, Dean, but I think that that's not going to be enough to move the needle at all. And I don't think what the American public wants or doesn't want or polling matters at all to the administration, you know, and it's not just this administration. I think we've got to wait for a determined effort from within the Senate. And of course, that is where this effort should come from. When I say effort, I mean just simply to do what the Senate is supposed to do constitutionally, which is act as a check and ask the right questions before we go to war.

• 58:34Speaker 06

  You know, on that point, then there, I think there's probably a limit to this because come November, or really next January, there could be a flip in the United States in terms of balance of power. And so, you know, that would argue that this whole Iran thing has got to be wrapped up before the midterms. Dee, how'd I do?

• 58:53Speaker 03

  You did incredible. So like, let's, let's just do, wrap it up a little bit more. I want everyone to check out Andy Milburn's book, When the Tempest Gathers. That link is in the description. Mick mentioned the Montana Security Conference, that link, if you want to go there, those for tickets, that link is in the description as well.

• 59:09Speaker 06

  Is he sending you there? Is he gonna, are you going?

• 59:11Speaker 03

  We're talking about going, yeah, like me.

• 59:13Speaker 06

  You better pay your way.

• 59:14Speaker 03

  Me and, no, no, I'm not paying for anything. If I'm going, I'm not paying for anything. But Jackson, Jackson Tokyo right now, when he comes back, we're gonna figure it out if we're going or not. We're talking about possibly, yeah. So we'll do some Team House and some Eyes On from there if we do go.

• 59:31Speaker 03

  Mark, you got a book, Clarity in Crisis. Check it out. That link is in the description. You know, I'll put all your links in the description as well. Your Twitter, your, I don't know, all the stuff, all your stuff. To find Mark and Andy and everybody else, that link is in the description and patreon.com/the team house. If you want us to help support the show, both Eyes On and the Team House, go there. Thank you.

• 59:56Speaker 06

  Thanks, guys. That was great. Honored to be here.

• 1:00:00Jack Murphy?

  I want to tell all of you today about a new newsletter that we're launching that encompasses both the Team House Podcast, the Eyes On Podcast, and the High Side News Outlet, which I run with Shawn Naylor. The newsletter is going to be once a week. It's going to come into your inbox and you're going to get the most current podcasts on Eyes On and the Team House and whatever's topical or current on the High Side. So it's another way for us to get the information out to you as social media algorithms are pretty iffy and you never really know what you're going to get. So this is a once a week email. It'll slide into your inbox and it will have, you know, the greatest hits of that week. It's really good. Checking it out.

• 1:00:43Jack Murphy?

  The website for it is teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join. Teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join. Go there and you enter into your email list or you enter your email into the little thing on the website and you're good to go. And that'll be it. So we really appreciate your support and hope you'll consider signing up. Where's the link? The link will also be down in the description if you're looking for it there. And that's teamhousepodcast.kit, K-I-T, Kilo India Tango, dot com.

• 1:01:19Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:01:33Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:01:44Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:01:49Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:01:55Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:02:15Speaker 11

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down rather than giving teens the answer. Study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:02:43Speaker 14

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• 1:03:20Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:03:34Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:03:45Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:03:50Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:03:56Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

• 1:04:16Speaker 11

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down rather than giving teens the answer. Study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:04:44Speaker 14

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• 1:05:19Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:05:34Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:05:45Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:05:50Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:05:56Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

• 1:06:16Speaker 11

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down rather than giving teens the answer. Study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:06:43Speaker 02

  Cash Flow Crunch on Deck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:07:20Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:07:34Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:07:45Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:07:51Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:07:56Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:08:16Speaker 11

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:08:44Speaker 02

  Cash Flow Crunch on Deck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:09:21Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:09:36Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:09:46Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:09:52Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:09:58Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:10:17Speaker 11

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down rather than giving teens the answer. Study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:10:45Speaker 14

  Cash Flow Crunch? OnDeck's Small Business Line of Credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:11:22Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:11:37Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to "I'm deathly allergic," in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:11:48Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:11:53Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:11:59Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

• 1:12:19Speaker 11

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:12:46Speaker 12

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:13:21Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:13:36Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:13:47Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:13:52Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:13:58Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:14:18Speaker 11

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:14:45Speaker 02

  Cash Flow Crunch on Deck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:15:22Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:15:37Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:15:48Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:15:53Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:15:59Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:16:19Speaker 11

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:16:46Speaker 12

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:17:22Speaker 08

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:17:37Speaker 09

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:17:48Speaker 08

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:17:53Speaker 10

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:17:59Speaker 08

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

• 1:18:19Speaker 11

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:18:46Speaker 12

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:19:14Speaker 15

  She's been thinking about this sleepover all week, but I think about her food allergies all the time. Fortunately, her doctor prescribed Zolair, omalizumab. It's proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens.

• 1:19:27Speaker 16

  Zolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people one year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Zolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Zolair. Zolair may cause a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Zolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Zolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see zolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Zolair.

• 1:20:10Speaker 16

  This is an advertisement for Zolair, paid for by Genentech and Novartis.

• 1:20:14Speaker 11

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.comPARENTS to learn more.

• 1:20:41Speaker 14

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.