I’m Still Sexually Attracted to My Ex-Wife

On today’s episode, we hear about: · A man trying to get over feelings for his ex-wife · A wife struggling to reestablish trust with her husband and rebuild the marriage · A woman who still feels guilty about being involved with a married man Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🔴 Get 15% off with code DELONY at Bon Charge. 🌿 Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 🥤 Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi. 💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne. 🏋️ Go to Trainwell to get started! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  How do I move past my sexual attraction to my ex-wife? I've had relationships with new women, but it never seems to gratify the same way as it did with my ex-wife.

• 0:16Dr. John Delony?

  Is this about sex or is this about a 20-year relationship where somebody knows everything about you and there's a deep, safe, intimate connection there?

• 0:30Dr. John Delony?

  What's up? What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, coming to you not live. That kind of feels like it is, right, Kelly? Kind of feels like it is.

• 0:40Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, we're live in the fact that we're all in here doing this show right now, but when the people hear us, it will have been...

• 0:45Dr. John Delony?

  I think one day we're gonna do this show, there's gonna be like some big wild thing, and we're just gonna be like beep-doo-doo, like before COVID when all those people had recorded their shows.

• 0:52Speaker 02

  Right, because, yeah, I mean, so from the time we record this until it releases, it's a good five weeks, four weeks, no, more than that. And so, yeah, you know, things happen in that amount of time. And we're just like, la-la-la.

• 1:11Dr. John Delony?

  We transcend the dailies.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'm worried about like baseball season has started and spring is here, you know?

• 1:18Dr. John Delony?

  I don't really care about baseball because the Astros traded away everybody. That's why I'm a huge believer in the Nashville Stars, because my Astros gave everybody away. So we just need the White Sox to have one more really obnoxiously bad year. They can just move on down south to the Nashvilles.

• 1:35Dr. John Delony?

  I don't even know if that's supposed to be how it works out, but that's what I'm hoping for. Hey, glad that you're with us on this show. Kind of distracted today because Kelly got a new tattoo. She got a dragon across her stomach, and if you're wondering, was it weird when she showed us? Yup, it was. But I'm glad that you're here, talking about your mental and emotional health, your relationships, your coworkers who just get weird tattoos and just feel the need to show you everywhere.

• 1:58Speaker 02

  Oh, so you're gonna talk about weird tattoos?

• 2:00Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go out to Phoenix. TJ, what's up, brother?

• 2:05Speaker 00

  How much? What are you up to, sir?

• 2:07Dr. John Delony?

  Dude, I am rocking on to the breaking dawn, brother. Just chilling.

• 2:11Speaker 00

  Are you?

• 2:11Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, what about you?

• 2:12Speaker 00

  Good, good. Well, you know, just enjoying life.

• 2:16Dr. John Delony?

  Excellent.

• 2:17Speaker 00

  In the warm, in the great area here.

• 2:20Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome. What's up?

• 2:23Speaker 00

  Well, my question to you is, is, uh, how do I move past my sexual attraction to my ex-wife?

• 2:32Dr. John Delony?

  How do you move on from your sexual attraction to your ex-wife? I need some more context. I would, I would assume you're still sexually attracted to her. That's not a strange assumption, so tell me, tell me what you're struggling with.

• 2:45Speaker 00

  Well, we were married for 23 years and we've now been divorced for, for three years. And, um, you know, I've, I've had relationships with, with new women and whatever else, but it, it never seems to, uh, gratify or satiate the same way as it did with, with my ex-wife.

• 3:05Dr. John Delony?

  Is this about sex or is this about a 20-year relationship where somebody knows everything about you and there's a deep, safe, intimate connection there?

• 3:14Speaker 00

  I would say it would be, I would say it'd be a bit of all of that.

• 3:19Dr. John Delony?

  Well, cause like one, one of the biggest, the funniest misnomers is

• 3:25Dr. John Delony?

  that the best sex you're ever gonna have is when you're 25. And what the data tells me is, like, married couples who are in their 40s and 50s are having the best sex.

• 3:35Dr. John Delony?

  And so, but that, that's not because they look the greatest. I was way more attractive when I was 20, right? Like, it's not, it's, it's not the things that we think matter when we're younger. It is, I know what you're into.

• 3:50Dr. John Delony?

  I know what makes your toenails curl. I know, like, I know all about you. And there's a safety. There's a relational safety that is super deep after two decades with somebody.

• 4:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I would agree with all that, yes.

• 4:07Dr. John Delony?

  So I guess it, like, let's take sex out of the equation.

• 4:13Dr. John Delony?

  I don't know.

• 4:16Dr. John Delony?

  No, we could leave it in. I, I guess, I guess I, I

• 4:22Dr. John Delony?

  to have the same level of trust and sexual compatibility and intimacy, I'm, you're gonna need more time.

• 4:33Dr. John Delony?

  Like you're gonna have to build that relational stability. You were married to somebody, now you're just hooking up with people. That's a different anchor point.

• 4:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, when you say it like that, yes.

• 4:44Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make sense?

• 4:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, no, that all makes sense.

• 4:49Dr. John Delony?

  If you're married 20 years, not everybody, but you get to a point where you're not performing anymore. You're just, you can be with. If you're just hooking up with somebody, that's a show, right? You're doing your greatest hits so that hopefully they can do their greatest hit. You get them, see what I'm saying?

• 5:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, we're playing nothing but the hits here.

• 5:05Dr. John Delony?

  That's exhausting, because you're not being you.

• 5:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. Right.

• 5:14Dr. John Delony?

  What is, what does, um...

• 5:20Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, do you still miss your ex?

• 5:24Speaker 00

  Uh, well, yeah, I mean, like you said earlier, it was, you know, somebody that I was with for 23 years. And...

• 5:34Dr. John Delony?

  Why'd y'all get divorced?

• 5:38Speaker 00

  Well, she lost, she lost respect for me in the end. I mean, I had some business deals that went bad and, you know, there were money issues that went on. And, you know, I don't wanna throw the word narcissist out there, but I mean, she certainly falls into a lot of those personality traits.

• 5:59Speaker 00

  Gaslighting was, was her biggest, her biggest nastiness to her. So it was, you know, and, you know, and then, and then after we got divorced, I mean, she came out as a lesbian too. So that, that might have played a factor in a little bit.

• 6:19Dr. John Delony?

  You think?

• 6:20Speaker 00

  I don't think, I don't think, oh, it was, it was, it was only a small factor. I don't, I don't think it was a huge factor, but, um, I knew she was, I knew she was gay when I was married to her, but it never seemed to affect anything otherwise. But, I mean, she was just a, a very difficult, it was a very, she's a very difficult person. So...

• 6:42Dr. John Delony?

  Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. What are you saying, man?

• 6:49Dr. John Delony?

  Like you're like, I knew that she wasn't living a life that she felt would make her whole, but it was all good.

• 6:58Dr. John Delony?

  And she was combative and was blaming me for her lack of happiness. I knew she was gay, but it was all good. And then I had

• 7:07Speaker 00

  No, it wasn't.

• 7:08Dr. John Delony?

  I had money issues and business issues that, did you have integrity issues too? Did you hide the losses?

• 7:15Speaker 00

  No.

• 7:16Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 7:16Speaker 00

  No, I didn't do that.

• 7:17Dr. John Delony?

  So she just didn't

• 7:18Speaker 00

  It was hard to do that. It was hard to do that in 2008 and went down for millions.

• 7:22Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, there you go. Okay.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  You can't hide that.

• 7:26Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Well, some tried. Some went down trying.

• 7:31Speaker 00

  I'm sure they did.

• 7:32Dr. John Delony?

  So here you are three years post divorce.

• 7:36Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 7:38Dr. John Delony?

  Do you like the life you're leaving, living right now?

• 7:42Speaker 00

  No.

• 7:43Dr. John Delony?

  Do you respect TJ? Do you respect you in this new world?

• 7:50Speaker 00

  Um, do I respect myself? Yes, I do.

• 7:53Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 7:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:55Dr. John Delony?

  Are you proud of who you've become post divorce?

• 7:59Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 8:00Dr. John Delony?

  Excellent.

• 8:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:03Dr. John Delony?

  Excellent. Who are you sharing your life with?

• 8:08Speaker 00

  In, in what respects?

• 8:10Dr. John Delony?

  Do you have a group of guys that you hang out with, that you go shooting pool with, that you go shooting with or drinking with or like, I don't know what you do out there in Phoenix, but just sitting around being hot with, right? Like, do you have a gang?

• 8:22Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, we, we, we go, uh, out to the lake, go wakeboarding and

• 8:25Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome.

• 8:26Speaker 00

  surfing and, and all that stuff. Yeah, no, I have, I have a group of guys that I hang out with.

• 8:31Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So every time you date, what happens?

• 8:34Speaker 00

  I'm nearly I'm sorry?

• 8:36Dr. John Delony?

  Every time you date, what happens? Your ex-wife just pops into your mind?

• 8:42Speaker 00

  Uh.

• 8:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, so- sometimes, um.

• 8:50Speaker 00

  Part of me is that, is that, well, I'm fifty-two, to put some context to it, is that, like, I'm out in the dating market of, you know, fifty-year-old women, and, you know, they, they come with some, some wild issues, too, and some of it's-

• 9:04Dr. John Delony?

  So do you!

• 9:06Speaker 00

  Well, I know, but it's all, it's all how you deal with them, too, so.

• 9:10Dr. John Delony?

  Right.

• 9:11Speaker 00

  Um, or what you want to get involved with.

• 9:14Dr. John Delony?

  Right.

• 9:14Speaker 00

  Um, so a lot of, they're, they're all going, yes, they're going through their divorces at the same time, and, you know.

• 9:21Dr. John Delony?

  So, so, let me ask you this, what are you looking for in the last, in the back half of your life?

• 9:27Dr. John Delony?

  You built a life for somebody, and neither of y'all were honest with each other, and you tried to make it work, and it imploded. Now you're, now you're trying to figure out what you can do in the back half of your life.

• 9:38Dr. John Delony?

  What do you, what do you want that to look like?

• 9:43Speaker 00

  Uh.

• 9:46Speaker 00

  Serenity, um.

• 9:48Dr. John Delony?

  Peace, awesome.

• 9:49Speaker 00

  Peace, peace, peace.

• 9:50Dr. John Delony?

  I love that.

• 9:53Speaker 00

  Um. My, my ex-wife made it very difficult for me to, uh, be with my own family, so I spent quite a, quite a lot of time reconnecting with my own parents, who are, you know, on their last days.

• 10:10Dr. John Delony?

  Amazing.

• 10:11Speaker 00

  Kind of thing, so, so I'm enjoying that, and, uh, I've opened a new business, which is looking very profitable, so I'm, I'm happy, I'm happy with that.

• 10:21Dr. John Delony?

  So can we exhale for a second and grieve? You had a spirited, sexually adventurous, very chaotic, two decades with somebody.

• 10:36Dr. John Delony?

  There was good stuff, there was great stuff, and there was really tough stuff, and there was painful stuff.

• 10:45Dr. John Delony?

  If you keep that door open, and you parade every new person you meet in front of that door, just to compare it, it will always collapse on you.

• 10:56Dr. John Delony?

  You have to grieve that that part of your life is over.

• 11:05Dr. John Delony?

  And if you had great sex with your wife, no new person is gonna, or your ex-wife, no new person is gonna come in and take that away or minimize that.

• 11:17Dr. John Delony?

  You only have a few choices in your life to have a 20-year relationship with somebody.

• 11:22Speaker 00

  Right.

• 11:23Dr. John Delony?

  So it's not about how do you compare. It was great. She was my wife.

• 11:30Dr. John Delony?

  What's gonna matter going forward is can you and I decide, you're gonna bring baggage to the table, I'm bringing baggage to the table. We are gonna choose peace in our house and we're gonna choose as much joy and novelty and fun and whatever and whatever and whatever moving forward.

• 11:54Dr. John Delony?

  Is that, does that make sense?

• 11:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:01Speaker 00

  No, that, that, I mean, I've heard, I've heard you use the same kinda advice in the past. I guess I just never applied it to myself.

• 12:08Dr. John Delony?

  Gotcha.

• 12:09Speaker 00

  Grieve, you know, grieve it and move on and...

• 12:12Dr. John Delony?

  Cause it feels like, if I, if you were just talking to me, I would feel like you just found out six months ago that your wife actually is gay after two decades. She just hid it from you, hid it from you, and she moved out, she's remarried to another woman, and your head is still spinning. That's how fresh it feels when you're talking about it, even though it was three years ago.

• 12:33Speaker 00

  Right.

• 12:33Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make sense?

• 12:35Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm. Total sense, yes.

• 12:39Dr. John Delony?

  Can I just say this? I'm sorry.

• 12:43Dr. John Delony?

  Cause I also get the impression you really loved her.

• 12:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, I did.

• 12:48Dr. John Delony?

  That was your wife.

• 12:49Speaker 00

  I do.

• 12:49Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. That's the thing, you do.

• 12:54Dr. John Delony?

  And when you're...

• 12:54Speaker 00

  And when you have kids together, it sort of puts another layer on there, right?

• 12:58Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, it's their mom.

• 13:02Dr. John Delony?

  So you're always gonna be connected to her.

• 13:04Speaker 00

  Right.

• 13:06Dr. John Delony?

  And trying to have somebody just waltz in and do, like, don't let the physical, whatever fun times y'all had, whatever deep, connected, sexual contact, don't let those moments...

• 13:23Dr. John Delony?

  Let me say this.

• 13:26Dr. John Delony?

  Going to the top of the Empire State Building and looking at that spire that goes really high into the clouds, it's amazing. But you can't forget that that only exists because of the however many 300 or whatever floors that are beneath it, holding it up.

• 13:46Dr. John Delony?

  The sex was so great and the connection was so great and the depth was so great because y'all were both all in for 20 years. You made humans together. You were ride or die. And there was some big secrets, some big, some big, big, big things in between you two, but man, y'all went for it.

• 14:05Dr. John Delony?

  And if she's the one who decided, "I'm out." I don't respect you, then you would be a different man than me if you didn't look in the mirror and ask, "Am I worth respecting?"

• 14:19Dr. John Delony?

  And I, by the way, for whatever it's worth, I think you can be a respectable person whose business goes away.

• 14:26Dr. John Delony?

  I think you can be proud of yourself that you went all in and some new technology came and took your company away from you. Or a new competitor.

• 14:35Dr. John Delony?

  Or a financial collapse. Or a financial collapse, right? Yeah. That's not a reason to bail on somebody, that's a reason to double down on somebody.

• 14:46Dr. John Delony?

  And she left. That's painful, man, that hurts.

• 14:57Dr. John Delony?

  And so, I would say, as you're dating and as you decide to marry somebody new, let those opportunities be as fresh and new, because we're starting from day one with those things. And do not compare them to what was. And by the way, that's gonna be a natural thing. When that pops into your head, you have to make a choice. You have to make a choice. I'm stopping for a second.

• 15:23Dr. John Delony?

  No, I'm not going to go back to that one night or go back to that crazy weekend in wherever. I'm not going back there. My wife left me. We are divorced. She is gone. I'm here with her. And if you try to heal those wounds of, hey, she left with sex with strangers. If you try to heal that,

• 15:48Dr. John Delony?

  I thought we were ride or die and the economy tanked and then you were gone. And you start to feel like I was just a meal ticket for you and the kid. Like when you have those moments, like the thing about casual sex is for a second, it can make that stuff go away, but it is hollow and hollow and it piles up on you. So pause for a minute, brother. Pause for a minute. Grieve that thing fully. And I don't know anybody who can grieve by themselves, so get your gang.

• 16:17Dr. John Delony?

  And then date somebody new and be open. Everybody's gonna have baggage. 21 year olds who get married have baggage. They got their family baggage. They're bringing their whole families in the new house with them. And they gotta figure out how to unwind those things. It's just part of moving forward with somebody.

• 16:34Dr. John Delony?

  Honor what was. You loved her. And if you believe you did right by her for 20 plus years, then honor that. Exhale, drop your shoulders. And if you believe she just walked out on you, if you believe that she said it was all cool, even though she was gay and it hurt, like exhale that. It hurts. It's painful. And then meet somebody else and say, hi, my name is TJ. I got a lot of baggage too. I'd love to get to know you. Thanks for the call, my brother. I really appreciate you hopping on the show. All right, coming up, we talk to a woman who is struggling to regain her husband's trust. And it wasn't an affair. We'll be right back.

• 17:14Dr. John Delony?

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• 17:58Dr. John Delony?

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• 18:41Dr. John Delony?

  And if you get a post-purchase survey, tell Helix you heard about them right here on this show. Go to helixsleep.com/deloney. With Helix, better sleep starts right now.

• 18:55Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's talk about red light therapy. I've been on board with the benefits of red light therapy for a long, long time, and that's why I'm excited to tell you about my friends at Bon Charge. Our lives are lived almost entirely inside, under this glow of fluorescent lights, and little screens, and medium-sized screens, and giant screens. All this stuff affects our mood, our sleep, our anxiety, and the studies are showing it. Bon Charge is a world leader in red light therapy and EMF blocking. Gear. I use their red light therapies every single day. Red light therapy can help you boost your mood, reduce stress and even help with sleep. I use my red light therapy panels, my infrared sauna blanket, the EMF mat. I'm always mixing and matching and I use them every day.

• 19:38Dr. John Delony?

  And listen up, if your skin looks tired, check out Bond Charge's red light mask for skin recovery, collagen production and improved blood flow. I got the mask and I'm starting to feel so gorgeous. Just wear it 10 minutes, a few times a week for fresher skin. And it's easy. There's no creams or appointments. It's lightweight and it's even cordless. Go to bondcharge.com/deloney and use coupon code deloney to save 15%. That's B O N C H A R G E. Bondcharge.com/deloney and use coupon code deloney to save 15%. Let's go to Nicole in the Ozarks. What's up Nicole?

• 20:19Speaker 03

  Hi.

• 20:20Dr. John Delony?

  What's up?

• 20:21Speaker 03

  I'm doing great.

• 20:22Dr. John Delony?

  Outstanding.

• 20:23Speaker 03

  I actually have been in a very, very long time.

• 20:27Dr. John Delony?

  Incredible. Just by calling the show, your life got better.

• 20:31Speaker 03

  I actually agree.

• 20:34Dr. John Delony?

  I probably would disagree with you. Okay. So go ahead. What's up?

• 20:38Speaker 03

  Well, my original question is, what should I expect with rebuilding my marriage? And if you want me to, I'll jump into some backstory, but yeah.

• 20:48Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, let it rip.

• 20:50Speaker 03

  Okay. Well, me and my husband have been married for 10 years. And in the last five years, I've been struggling with depression unknowingly. I could only focus on keeping me and my three boys alive and none of the house chores were getting done at all. And my husband loves a clean house. He and I have had several conversations about it and all ending with me saying, I'll do better. I'll do better. I'll do better. And every time better would last for a week at the most and fall off. His trust is very low right now and I don't blame him for that.

• 21:34Speaker 03

  And he told me last month that he had actually been considering leaving me several times, but didn't see the logical way of doing it. I've been in counseling and God has been helping me for the last three months, healing and growing and changing for the better.

• 21:58Speaker 03

  In listening to your show, I was able to ask him to rebuild a new marriage with me and he was on board. We are a month into rebuilding and I'm three months into counseling and change. I'm wondering what to expect with him needing to rebuild trust with me? And how do I practice slowing my roll when I just want to get to the good part?

• 22:28Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, there's so much in your question.

• 22:31Dr. John Delony?

  You said today, you said that today, the last few days have been the best in a long time. What's made him the best?

• 22:38Speaker 03

  Well, just for a really long time, I have, with struggling with depression unknowingly, it feels like, um, it feels like I have, kind of like the best analogy I can figure out is like a three-part Christmas tree and when you don't have one plugged in, the rest of the lights don't work. And that's just kind of what it's been feeling like, where mind, body and spirit are not plugged in together. But in the last three months, it's felt like mind, body and spirit finally plugged in and I can actually put mind, body and spirit together. I can get house chores done.

• 23:21Speaker 03

  Literally, I, my house is cleaner than it's ever been in 10 years of being married. And it feels so good. It feels like a giant weight off my shoulder. And I can see it in my husband, I can see it in my kids, that we're all feeling better because of it. So it's just kind of like this ah moment. But then it's like, after he told me last month that he had been considering leaving, I was like, oh, whoa, this is a lot serious, this is a lot more serious than I thought it was.

• 23:59Dr. John Delony?

  Is it that you have a cleaner house?

• 24:03Dr. John Delony?

  Or is it for the first time in five years, you feel like you can finally trust you again?

• 24:11Speaker 03

  You're gonna make me emotional, John. Um.

• 24:15Dr. John Delony?

  Because, because you're thinking depression. Like, I talk about anxiety, OCD, all these other things. Depression's a different animal in my book. And I think depression and anxiety are on the same trend line, but it's a body that says, it's your body trying to take care of you by turning the lights out and getting under the covers.

• 24:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:36Dr. John Delony?

  And it's really powerful. And in any major depressive, and I don't, I'm not, obviously not going to diagnose you over the phone, but in any major depress, like when you're dealing with somebody who is really struggling with depression, one of the chief goals is tiny wins.

• 24:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:54Dr. John Delony?

  Just get up today and take a shower, then get back in bed. That's it.

• 24:59Speaker 03

  That's how it was a lot.

• 25:01Dr. John Delony?

  Just get up today, take a shower, put on makeup, go back to bed.

• 25:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I say depression because I was never really clinically diagnosed, but I could see the patterns and my dad actually struggled with depression, but he didn't ever tell me or my brother that it was depression.

• 25:19Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 25:20Speaker 03

  So it was just really angry around the house and you just kind of thought he was just a really mad person.

• 25:26Dr. John Delony?

  So you and I only have, we've been talking for three minutes. Can I, um, connect some dots and you just say, no, no, you're wrong?

• 25:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:36Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Is there a chance that whenever a parent is really struggling with depression, it's very challenging for a kid because, um, I, I often use the same analogy in talking about parents who are struggling with alcohol. For a kid, it's like trying to hug a ghost. They're there, they're right there physically.

• 26:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:01Dr. John Delony?

  But they're not there. And for a child, children do so much to try to connect. Hey, let's go play the ball, kick the ball. Hey, will you do this? Can we watch videos in your lap? Can I do anything with you? Because a child naturally wired into them, evolutionarily, they have to stay connected to a parent. And when a parent is unplugged right next to them, whether it's because of substance or because of depression or whatever, a kid will kind of start cycling, they'll start spinning, trying to find ways to connect. And you did that your whole childhood, fair?

• 26:33Speaker 03

  Definitely.

• 26:34Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 26:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, 100%. And my mom really wasn't a great person either. She would rather go to work than be home.

• 26:42Dr. John Delony?

  Well, wo- work was her drug, right?

• 26:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:45Dr. John Delony?

  Work was her drug. So.

• 26:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:47Dr. John Delony?

  Is there a possibility?

• 26:50Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me, I'm happy to be wrong here.

• 26:54Dr. John Delony?

  That you fell in love with somebody and you married them?

• 26:58Dr. John Delony?

  And then yet again, you found yourself having to perform up to a certain set of tasks for them to be okay with you? For instance, the house has to look a certain way? Or I'm out of here?

• 27:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, kind of. I mean, I definitely believe that my husband was given to me by God because of other circumstances that we don't have time to go into. But.

• 27:26Dr. John Delony?

  But did you accidentally marry your unfinished business?

• 27:29Speaker 03

  I, yeah, I can see that.

• 27:31Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 27:32Speaker 03

  And he told me even last night that he,

• 27:37Speaker 03

  he thought that marriage was the next thing to check off in his box.

• 27:42Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 27:42Speaker 03

  And I, so, yeah, we kind of both did it.

• 27:46Dr. John Delony?

  So in a weird way, and this, and hear me say this, this isn't, this, it's not a good thing, but it's not a bad thing, okay? Just as an is, okay?

• 27:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:54Dr. John Delony?

  And this happens all the time. It happened in my marriage, okay?

• 27:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:58Dr. John Delony?

  Y'all both married each other

• 28:02Dr. John Delony?

  in some sort of way, using the other person to try to fill something in their life.

• 28:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:09Dr. John Delony?

  You were there. You were well enough. And he had a list he needed to check off. You needed safety. You needed somebody to say it's not, that you're not somehow malfunctioning.

• 28:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:23Dr. John Delony?

  And y'all married, y'all, y'all connected. And you were each other's oxygen until the tank ran out.

• 28:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:30Dr. John Delony?

  And then you want to be more than just a checkbox on a, on a list.

• 28:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, definitely.

• 28:37Dr. John Delony?

  And he wanted you to be a maid slash mom.

• 28:43Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 28:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I definitely.

• 28:47Dr. John Delony?

  And my guess is.

• 28:48Speaker 03

  Thought that at certain points.

• 28:49Dr. John Delony?

  Again, there's a thousand different things, so I don't want to like minimize it, but I wouldn't be surprised

• 28:55Dr. John Delony?

  if your body said, I know this story, I'm out.

• 29:02Dr. John Delony?

  I know how this goes. I quit.

• 29:09Dr. John Delony?

  And here's why it's important for you to internalize this.

• 29:14Dr. John Delony?

  You being squished under depression does not mean you are somehow malfunctioning in your character. You're not a bad person.

• 29:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, because it was like I could only, I would define other people's houses and I could like even help my in-laws clean their house, help my sister-in-law clean her house.

• 29:38Dr. John Delony?

  Nicole, none of this is about cleaning. None.

• 29:42Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 29:43Dr. John Delony?

  What this is, that is a distant, that is a distant byproduct.

• 29:51Dr. John Delony?

  What it has to do with is, for whatever reason, and this, this is all going to tie back to your question, what you expect rebuilding your marriage, okay?

• 30:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:00Dr. John Delony?

  It all, your body identified your world, your home, your partner, something, all of it, a piece of it, as, "I can't do this. I'm out."

• 30:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:15Dr. John Delony?

  And it's, if you think about yourself underneath a, um,

• 30:21Dr. John Delony?

  I don't know if this analogy will hold, I'm just making it up off the top of my head, but if you struggle with anxiety and you're, and you're doing bench press, imagine the bar is so light that you can lift it a hundred times, like a broom handle, right? You're just lifting it and you're trying to lift it as much as you possibly can so you can get as strong as you can because one day someone's gonna try to kill you.

• 30:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:39Dr. John Delony?

  With depression, somebody loads it up with five times the weight you can lift,

• 30:46Dr. John Delony?

  and you push and you push against it and you can't budge it an inch and you just stop.

• 30:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:52Dr. John Delony?

  And it lays on your chest and you can't move it. And the only way to get that bar up is to get some of that weight off the bar.

• 31:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:00Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make any sense?

• 31:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:02Dr. John Delony?

  Here's what I need you to hear me say before I go any further.

• 31:08Dr. John Delony?

  There's not something wrong with you. Your body was simply trying to keep you alive.

• 31:16Dr. John Delony?

  You're not a bad wife.

• 31:19Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 31:20Speaker 03

  You know how long I've been calling myself that?

• 31:22Dr. John Delony?

  I know. You told that stuff when you were a little girl that dad wouldn't talk to you because something's wrong with you.

• 31:31Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 31:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:34Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. So you and your husband created a world, the one that y'all both knew.

• 31:42Dr. John Delony?

  And you were somebody that was gonna accomplish all of his tasks. And he was somebody that was gonna finally heal you. And y'all both were like, oh, this isn't how this works. That's a great place to find yourself if y'all can come to the table and say, okay, cool. We created this world. Now we can create any world we want.

• 32:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:02Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 32:02Speaker 03

  And I think we're finally there.

• 32:03Dr. John Delony?

  It's amazing. But you cannot predicate what comes next with, look how clean the house is.

• 32:12Dr. John Delony?

  Because I'm promising you, Nicole, I'm promising you.

• 32:17Dr. John Delony?

  If that's what it takes to bring y'all back together, that finish line will move.

• 32:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:24Dr. John Delony?

  The house will never be clean enough.

• 32:26Speaker 03

  It kind of feels like it already has.

• 32:27Dr. John Delony?

  That's right. It will move to, well, if you lost 20 pounds. And then it will move to, well, if you just did this in the bedroom, and then it will move to, well, if you just sent me 40.

• 32:38Speaker 03

  You just turned another button.

• 32:39Dr. John Delony?

  Right. Well, it will always move because you were never the problem. It was this context y'all created, this environment. This world. Where he's trying to find somebody that will do all of the things that he thinks is what it's gonna take to make him feel whole. And you cannot feel that for him. He can only be whole from the inside out. And he can't rescue that nine-year-old girl inside your chest. That's your job.

• 33:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:10Dr. John Delony?

  Fair? Does it make sense what I'm saying?

• 33:12Speaker 03

  Yes, definitely, 100%.

• 33:14Dr. John Delony?

  So to re-

• 33:15Speaker 03

  And I've kind of told him, he's, we've kind of had those discussions and those realizations.

• 33:21Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome. So rebuilding a marriage, imagine rebuilding a house.

• 33:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:30Dr. John Delony?

  You're gonna have disagreements on where to put the new bathroom. One of y'all is gonna lay a tile floor and it's gonna look funny, you have to pull the whole floor out? Um, one of you is gonna roof the house and the roof's gonna be crooked, you have to pull all the shingles off, all that expense and redo it, or maybe hire somebody to come and do it. Rebuilding your marriage, expect it to be uncomfortable.

• 33:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:53Dr. John Delony?

  Expect it to be like glimpses, like you're experiencing right now of, oh gosh, when this thing is singing, it works. It's ama- it feels right, I feel, now we're both, both of us are in the boat and both of our feet is in the boat. He's not just watching you row while he sits on the shore in a lawn chair with a beer. And you're not him in the boat, you're just trying to paddle as fast as you can to be the wife he wants you to be. Right? It's both of you saying, hey, both of us have to be in here and both of us are gonna row. And both of you have never done that before.

• 34:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:26Dr. John Delony?

  So it's awkward, it's weird, it's frustrating, it's annoying. And here's the important part about the marriage, about building a new marriage.

• 34:35Dr. John Delony?

  You always have to go back to that blueprint, that picture y'all created together about where this thing is headed.

• 34:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:42Dr. John Delony?

  Cause that's what matters.

• 34:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:47Speaker 03

  And we did, we even, I, because I watched your show, I was like, okay, I'm ready to rebuild this thing, so we're gonna have a talk and we're gonna have, we're gonna sit down and we're gonna talk about what we want. And then we're gonna come back to it in three months and see you-

• 35:04Dr. John Delony?

  Thirty days.

• 35:04Speaker 03

  If that's changed or not.

• 35:05Dr. John Delony?

  Right now, right now, do it weekly.

• 35:09Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 35:10Dr. John Delony?

  Do it weekly, talk about your money, talk about your sex life, and commit to each other to not use the word "you", commit to use the word "I".

• 35:22Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 35:22Dr. John Delony?

  He's not allowed to say, "You need to do, make sure our bet," he can't do that.

• 35:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:27Dr. John Delony?

  He needs to have the courage to say, "When I walk in the door, and this house is all cleaned up, and I've been working really hard all day, and you are like running the house and I'm running this business, I feel so loved."

• 35:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:42Dr. John Delony?

  Or, "I'm struggling with being attracted to you right now."

• 35:48Speaker 03

  That, that's exactly...

• 35:51Dr. John Delony?

  But that's different than, "Hey, you need to lose 30 pounds." See the difference?

• 35:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:56Dr. John Delony?

  And when he says, "I'm struggling with being..." What, what he says, "I'm struggling with being attracted to you," exhaling and choosing curiosity over judgment, "How dare you, you son of..." That's judgment. Curiosity is, "Phew, that's hard to hear." Tell me more. Tell me more. Right?

• 36:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:12Dr. John Delony?

  And you, if you're being honest, are tired of him hassling you about sex when you can't even brush your teeth.

• 36:18Speaker 03

  That was not him hassling me, it's me hassling him.

• 36:21Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 36:23Dr. John Delony?

  Fair enough, fair enough. Will you do me a favor?

• 36:27Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 36:28Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to go, you've heard me say, if you listen to the show, I want you to go buy yourself a small little journal for nine bucks at Walmart, or Walgreens,

• 36:36Dr. John Delony?

  and commit, this is for this, your soul, for your marriage, for your husband, and for your kids, okay? This is a big, the stakes are high on this. I want you to write down, for a month or two, every single story that pops into your mind.

• 36:51Dr. John Delony?

  Write it down.

• 36:53Dr. John Delony?

  And then ask your husband if he would honor you by sitting down and helping you challenge those together.

• 37:00Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 37:00Dr. John Delony?

  "If I don't do, open, clean the dishwasher, my wife, my husband's gonna leave me." Write that down. "You suck at being a mom." Write that down. "Good moms don't need time away from their kids." Write that down.

• 37:14Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 37:15Dr. John Delony?

  Husbands always, always, always want to have sex with their wives. And if they don't, that means he's having an affair, or that means I'm unattractive. Write that down.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 37:25Dr. John Delony?

  We are always, always going to be changing diapers, bathing kids, dealing with spit up, beating food off the floor, dealing with screaming and crying in bedtimes. We're always going to be... It's not true. You're in a phase. It's winter and you're really cold, but I promise, spring is coming.

• 37:43Speaker 03

  And I hate being cold.

• 37:44Dr. John Delony?

  I know, right? Everybody does. It's the worst.

• 37:49Dr. John Delony?

  So here's your expectations.

• 37:52Dr. John Delony?

  Curiosity over judgment.

• 37:55Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 37:56Dr. John Delony?

  How can I love you not this year? For our whole marriage, how can I love you today?

• 38:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:03Dr. John Delony?

  We're looking for little wins, tiny wins.

• 38:07Dr. John Delony?

  I believe I'm worth an hour in the gym, an hour of walking around the block. How can we make that happen? Enough space where I get that hour.

• 38:17Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 38:18Dr. John Delony?

  You want me to show up in the bedroom for you, and you want me to show up here as your wife? I need to have adult friends that I can exhale with, so that way, we don't use each other as garbage dumps. And I tell you all the bad stuff that happened with the kids, you tell me all the bad stuff that happened at work, and then we just go, "Ugh." And we watched an episode of Dexter and we fall asleep.

• 38:37Speaker 03

  That's typically what we do.

• 38:38Dr. John Delony?

  I know it is. Because you're... I mean, because it's... That's the American marriage right now.

• 38:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, I've been wanting something different for a while, too.

• 38:48Dr. John Delony?

  So amazing. I think it's cool, and I would be lying if I say there's some psychological benefits to getting rid of clutter. My friend Dawn Madsen, the Minimal Mom, she's amazing. My buddies Josh and TK over at The Minimal, like, the stuff they teach and preach is right. They're right.

• 39:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:05Dr. John Delony?

  A non-

• 39:05Speaker 03

  I've done a lot of that.

• 39:06Dr. John Delony?

  A non-cluttered house is good for your soul. And-

• 39:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:10Dr. John Delony?

  This isn't about you having a clean house.

• 39:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:14Dr. John Delony?

  This is about you desperately seeking some signal that you're worth being loved and married to.

• 39:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. 100%.

• 39:28Speaker 03

  I haven't felt like that in a while.

• 39:30Dr. John Delony?

  That's right. That's what he needs to hear, if you don't want to rebuild your marriage.

• 39:37Dr. John Delony?

  Because he has to come to the table with, "How can I love you today? I just need you to hold me."

• 39:44Dr. John Delony?

  "How can I love you today? I need you to wash all the bottles. I know you're an attorney and you worked 17 hours today. I need you to wash the bottles." Got it.

• 39:53Dr. John Delony?

  "How can I love you today? Can we just have

• 39:59Dr. John Delony?

  hotel room sex while the kids are asleep? Just in the bathroom of the hotel? Can we just shut the door and just get after it for five minutes, please?" Got it. Expect there to be starts and stops and fits and backwards and forwards and all that kind of stuff. One more thing.

• 40:15Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 40:15Dr. John Delony?

  This is just nagging me in the back of my mind and the back of my chest. And so I just want to put it on the table, okay?

• 40:22Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah.

• 40:25Dr. John Delony?

  If y'all haven't already, I want y'all to have a, after the kids are in bed, tell them I want to talk about something really big this evening.

• 40:34Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 40:35Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you to hold both of his hands. And I want you to say, "Before we go, the last three months have been such a transformation in our lives. The last month has been amazing.

• 40:46Dr. John Delony?

  I need to make sure that all of the secrets are on the table."

• 40:52Speaker 03

  I kind of did that last night because I had always had this nagging thought in the back of my head. And I'm just like, "I just need to put this to bed." So, kind of did a little bit, but not all of it.

• 41:05Dr. John Delony?

  Have you gone through text messages and cell phones and social media accounts?

• 41:10Speaker 03

  Oh, it's nothing like that. He's 100% loyal to me. It's more like an old, an old fling that I was like, "Hmm, I don't know if I fully got the true story for that."

• 41:22Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, whatever you need, make sure the secrets are all out. Because if you go forward and you still have shadows, it just makes it hard to see, right? It just makes it hard to see. But, amazing. Keep going, keep going. You two can call me anytime. I'll have you both on the show if y'all want to be on. I'll walk with you as far as y'all want to have me walk next to you. I'm so proud y'all are rebuilding this thing. Keep that picture in mind and keep this phrase going all the time. "We are on the same team." And both of you are gonna have to say, "I'm sorry." Both of you are gonna have to say, "I forgive you." Both of you are gonna have to say, "Well, we gotta pull out that bathroom because the tile's on sideways. We got to rebuild the bath. Here we go." And we're gonna keep going and going. And by the way, as soon as you get this whole house built, you're gonna have three teenagers.

• 42:07Dr. John Delony?

  You're gonna have to build a new house. And that becomes part of the excitement and fun and novelty and playfulness and work of being married for a long, long time. Amazing, Nicole. I'm proud of you. Keep seeing that counselor. Keep seeing that counselor. Next up, a woman is forced to reckon with her past and the guilt it brings in the future. Stay with us.

• 42:31Dr. John Delony?

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• 43:16Dr. John Delony?

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• 43:59Dr. John Delony?

  All right, Omaha, Nebraska. What's up, Heather?

• 44:03Speaker 04

  Hello.

• 44:04Dr. John Delony?

  How we doing?

• 44:06Speaker 04

  I'm doing okay.

• 44:07Dr. John Delony?

  You don't sound like it.

• 44:10Speaker 04

  Uh, I'm not a very big phone talker, so this is hard.

• 44:13Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, well, thanks for, thanks for reaching out. It's awesome.

• 44:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, um, so my, uh, worry is when I, back in two thousand eight, two thousand nine, I had an affair with a married man. And then recently, just last month, he randomly sent me a message asking how I was doing. And it really upset me because I had never told my husband about this person. And I hadn't, I hadn't met my husband when I was having this affair. So I didn't cheat and I, I told my husband about it because I've been carrying the guilt for the last thirteen years we've been together. And I just, I hate myself for it.

• 45:02Dr. John Delony?

  How old are you now?

• 45:04Speaker 04

  Uh, thirty-seven.

• 45:06Dr. John Delony?

  So how old were you? Twenty, what?

• 45:11Speaker 04

  Twenty, twenty-one. And, um...

• 45:17Dr. John Delony?

  I was gonna say, did you do anything else dumb when you were twenty or twenty-one?

• 45:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:21Dr. John Delony?

  Like every twenty-one-year-old on planet Earth?

• 45:25Speaker 04

  Yep. I made bad decisions, that's for sure.

• 45:29Dr. John Delony?

  Well, you're gonna have to get in a long line of twenty and twenty-one-year-olds who made bad decisions. Why is this still haunting you at thirty-seven years old?

• 45:38Speaker 04

  Um, I've just always carried around some guilt about it, like it's a horrible thing to do. Um, I was single at the time, um, but I just, I didn't want to tell my husband. Every time we watched like your show and somebody talks about cheating, he's just like, "People who cheat are just terrible." And I'm just sitting here thinking like, "You're gonna think I'm a terrible person because of this terrible thing I did." And it's finally, it finally came out and...

• 46:10Dr. John Delony?

  But do you, do you see how you're bouncing tenses and trying to compress time?

• 46:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:15Dr. John Delony?

  People who are cheaters are terrible people. One time, getting up on two decades ago, or a decade and a half ago, I cheated. In fact, I didn't cheat, but I participated in somebody cheating.

• 46:35Dr. John Delony?

  You see how you're toggling time back and forth to bring your stuff that happened a long time ago into the present?

• 46:51Speaker 04

  I just don't want my husband to think, to hate me, to think I'm a terrible person or that I would do that to him.

• 46:58Dr. John Delony?

  What did he say when you talked to him?

• 47:00Speaker 04

  He was kind of stunned. He, um, because at first I asked him, what would, why would a man email somebody who he hasn't seen in 17 years? And he's like, probably nothing good.

• 47:13Dr. John Delony?

  Right. He's exactly right.

• 47:15Speaker 04

  And I then that's this one, I was like, okay, I have to tell you something. And, um, and he just, he's kind of a stoic person, so I really didn't get much emotion out of him, either mad or sad or anything like that. He was just kind of like surprised I kept something that, uh, from him that long.

• 47:34Dr. John Delony?

  That's what I think you're frustrated with.

• 47:36Speaker 04

  Hmm. I don't know. I've, uh, I've always had, been carrying around this guilt for, for a long time.

• 47:49Dr. John Delony?

  What is that?

• 47:50Speaker 04

  Even before I met him.

• 47:51Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Let me ask you this. What is it getting you?

• 47:54Speaker 04

  Nothing.

• 47:55Dr. John Delony?

  No, it's giving you something. I don't know what it is, but it's giving you something. Is it a way to remember this affair? Was it pretty wonderful?

• 48:02Speaker 04

  No, it was not.

• 48:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Is it a way to protect you from ever, like, uh, like, uh, I'm thinking of like a little kid who dresses up in like old, like old armor, right? Like an almost knight costumes, thinking that's going to protect them from something. Is it your body trying to protect you from ever doing this again? So it just carries it around and dangles it in front of your face like one of those carrots in front of a donkey on the cartoons? Just to remind you?

• 48:29Speaker 04

  Um.

• 48:30Dr. John Delony?

  It's getting you something.

• 48:32Speaker 04

  I think it's more like, okay, I know that somebody can be a liar and cheat on their, their wife and I get just, I'm, I guess I'm afraid of that happening to me because I know that, that people falter.

• 48:51Dr. John Delony?

  Are you worried that your husband has cheated on you?

• 48:54Speaker 04

  No.

• 48:55Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 48:58Dr. John Delony?

  Again, I, I, yes, I, I think you played a role in participating in something that was very unhealthy and not good, fair.

• 49:10Speaker 04

  Uh huh, correct.

• 49:12Dr. John Delony?

  I'm wondering if the, the, the intensity of the guilt you feel is if you've had this big secret for all these years that you believed in your heart and mind, I think you're right. My husband doesn't really know what I'm capable of.

• 49:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:30Dr. John Delony?

  And every year he did something great, every time something happened, every time he popped off about, man, if somebody ever cheated on, and that weight got heavier and heavier and heavier.

• 49:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:45Dr. John Delony?

  Cause if I'm, if my wife comes up and says, hey, I did this thing, it was pretty rough before we met.

• 49:53Dr. John Delony?

  My immediate frustration would be, you've kept this from, you've kept secrets like this from me for this long, that'd be my first thought, not the thing that happened.

• 50:05Dr. John Delony?

  The disorienting thing, we'd get to that eventually, but the disorienting thing would be, I thought we knew everything about each other.

• 50:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:17Dr. John Delony?

  And maybe I'm out to lunch here, but I'm wondering if you sat down and said, hey, I told you this thing, I kinda wanted to get it off my chest and I threw it at you, but I realized it's fair for you to be sitting around wondering what else I haven't told you for the last 15 years.

• 50:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, like, it all happened in the morning and he said, okay, we'll talk about it after work, and then got the kids to bed, and I was like, can we talk about it now? And he's like, uh, sure, he didn't really want to. So we did talk about it again, but he said that he doesn't care, and it doesn't, it, he's not gonna think about it and let it bother him.

• 51:00Dr. John Delony?

  Do you believe him?

• 51:03Speaker 04

  I don't know. He's kind of hard to read emotion wise.

• 51:08Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 51:08Speaker 04

  But he's.

• 51:09Dr. John Delony?

  Here's the exercise I want you to, you want you to try, okay?

• 51:13Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 51:13Dr. John Delony?

  Two things. Number one, I want you to give it a day or two.

• 51:19Dr. John Delony?

  And then I want you to, when the kids go to bed, say, hey, let's go out to the kitchen table. Not in our bedroom, let's go to the kitchen table. What? I wanna go. Just please do this for me. Okay.

• 51:30Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you to say, I kept something big from you that I was ashamed of for all of our marriage.

• 51:38Dr. John Delony?

  And it breaks my heart that I didn't tell you the truth about who I was, or not even who I was, but a thing I did that I'm really ashamed of for all these years. And I also understand that you're gonna have questions about,

• 51:52Dr. John Delony?

  what else did she not tell me? So I would like to offer you the opportunity to let it rip. Ask me any question you wanna ask, I'm gonna answer it right here. Cause I wanna build trust with you that you know I'm not walking around with these, like you're gonna be waiting for another shoe to drop.

• 52:08Dr. John Delony?

  And if he says, I don't have any other questions, I believe you. Okay. If I was a husband, I wouldn't do that. I would have a whole bunch of questions, right? But maybe he is. Maybe he's just a stoic guy that trusts you and realizes that was probably hard and maybe moved on. He's probably a more chilled dude than me. The second thing is, this is old school Deloney advice. I want you to go to Lowe's or Home Depot and buy

• 52:31Dr. John Delony?

  a cinder block, and it's important that you buy it. Don't just get one from the yard. Go buy one. And I want you to duct tape on it. When I was 21, I got with a married man.

• 52:45Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you just to carry it around. You can carry it around in your hands. You can put it in a backpack and carry it around your house for a while, but I want you just to hold it until it gets so heavy you just can't carry it anymore. And then I want you to go out in the backyard and throw it on the ground. Tear off the tape, wad that tape up and put it in the trash and tell yourself, I'm not carrying this anymore. I forgive 21-year-old me. Period. I forgive you.

• 53:12Dr. John Delony?

  And when that guilt comes up, I want you to exhale, go, nope, I forgave her.

• 53:18Dr. John Delony?

  Cause Heather now in the present would never cheat. I forgive her. She did something dumb.

• 53:27Dr. John Delony?

  Forget about the work dynamics and the age difference and the hierarchies or whatever happened, I forgive that 20-year-old, 21-year-old knucklehead. I forgive her. And I'm not giving that guilt a vote at my kitchen table anymore. I've got kids, I've got a husband that I love, I'm moving on with my life. But I want you to have some moment that you can exhale and say, "I set that down." And then what you're going to practice over the next few months, maybe a couple of years, is when that thought pops in your head, you remember one of the nights together you spent with that dude, or he pops up on your LinkedIn, you hit delete and block, don't reply. I forgive her. And then go on about your day. And that sounds a glib, but this is just you practicing

• 54:12Dr. John Delony?

  living in the present and stop letting the thing that happened 15 years ago haunt every minute of your life. And again, my gut tells me that the intensity of the guilt is more around, "I'm keeping this big secret from my husband," more so than "I did something really stupid when I was 20 or 21." Thanks for the call, sister. Hey, we'll be right back. All right, so we are long past Easter now, and just like there's no finish line for your physical health or your mental and emotional well-being, there's no finish line for being still and intentional about gratitude, for growing in your faith, and for building a

• 54:52Dr. John Delony?

  relationship with God. And this is good news. Intentionality about spiritual matters is a practice, and any time can be a new starting point. So, if you committed to consistent practice of prayer and gratitude or reflection during Lent, I want to encourage you to keep going. The small daily habits add up to a transformed life. For my daily practice, I personally use Hallow, the number one prayer app in the world. It's a great tool to help me stay connected, to help me slow down, and to help me be grateful. Whether it's guided meditation, music, or scripture readings, Hallow helps me stay mindful even when life is gone berserker. So, set reminders, carve out time, and keep

• 55:35Dr. John Delony?

  Leaving space for intentional spirituality with Hallow. Plus, when you sign up at hallow.com/daloney, you'll get three months for free. So even if you missed out on Lent, it's still a great time to start. Again, go to Hallow, H-A-L-L-O-W, hallow.com/daloney for three months for free.

• 55:56Dr. John Delony?

  All right, Kelly, something cool happened. What's up?

• 55:58Speaker 02

  All right, this is from John in Thunder Bay. I know, that sounds amazing.

• 56:03Dr. John Delony?

  That sounds like one of your high school boyfriend's name. Like pulls up in a Camaro on Thunder Bay and you were like, oh.

• 56:12Speaker 02

  No, but I'm just gonna go ahead and read this now.

• 56:15Dr. John Delony?

  Your eagle tattoo on your arm goes.

• 56:19Dr. John Delony?

  Bon Jovi just starts spontaneously starts playing.

• 56:22Speaker 02

  Starts playing.

• 56:22Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 56:22Speaker 02

  Yep. All right. Hey, John, I started listening to your show before the holidays. I decided it would be fun to buy questions for humans, Christmas couples and parents and kids. Our two kids, ages nine and five, often groan when we do a few questions over dinner. Today, my daughter was at a party and my wife is out of town. So my little guy and I ordered pizza and when we sat down to eat, he held up the deck and said, Dad, can we do this? I'd like to say thanks to you and to your show for helping me become a little bit more intentional about my interactions with my wife and kids and making me a more open and better communicator. Keep up the good work.

• 56:57Dr. John Delony?

  Dude, good job, Thunder Bay. Thank you so much for reaching out, man. Even though now I gotta have to deal with like a month's worth of Kelly's high school boyfriend stories. I, dude, that's awesome. I'm proud of you for stepping up and being that kind of dad that just wants to be a little bit more intentional. And man, anytime your kids, your little kids lean up and say, hey, Dad, Mom, do you want to try this? That's amazing. That is just amazing, watching little kids connect with their parents. I love it. I love it. Love it. Congratulations, man. Everybody else listening, be a little bit more intentional. That's all it takes. Love you guys. Bye.