Actor Monica Barbaro (‘A Complete Unknown’) Takes the Stage as Joan Baez

In celebration of Oscar Sunday, our conversation with actor Monica Barbaro. Her portrayal of Joan Baez in the Bob Dylan biopic, A Complete Unknown https://www.searchlightpictures.com/a-complete-unknown, earned her an Academy Award nomination for Best Supporting Actress. At the top, we discuss how director James Mangold drew inspiration from Miloš Forman’s Amadeus (7:00), the vocal lessons Monica received in preparation for the role of Baez (10:15), and her affecting rendition of House of the Rising Sun (16:00). Then, we dive into Monica’s California upbringing (18:00), her pivot from dancing to professional acting (24:00), and the winding journey that led her to A Complete Unknown (29:00). On the back-half, we talk about her breakout role in Top Gun: Maverick (38:00), her evolving relationship to perfectionism (39:30), the deep, autobiographical research she did to portray Joan Baez (42:00), and what she hopes for in the years to come (54:15). Thoughts or future guest ideas? Email us at [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  Lemonada.

• 0:21Sam Fragoso?

  This is Talk Easy. I'm Sam Fragoso. Welcome to the show.

• 0:38Sam Fragoso?

  Today, Oscar-nominated actor Monica Barbaro. She plays musician Joan Baez in the newest Bob Dylan biopic, A Complete Unknown. The film tracks Dylan, played by Timothy Chalamet, through the pivotal years of 1961 to 1965, in which the Minnesota-born musician transitions from folk hero to rock star. It's during that interlude that Dylan meets Baez in the basement of a Greenwich Village cafe, at once impressed and a little bit envious of how her voice commands the room. It's in a rendition of "House of the Rising Sun," which you'll hear a little bit of today, that Barbaro captured my attention, too.

• 1:19Sam Fragoso?

  A Complete Unknown focuses primarily on Dylan's tumultuous relationship to, well, pretty much everything and everyone. But it's Barbaro's portrayal as Baez, first as a mentor to Dylan, then as a lover, that has really stayed with me. It seems to have stayed with the Academy as well. Barbaro was nominated earlier this year for Best Supporting Actress, alongside talents like Isabella Rossellini for "Conclave" and Ariana Grande for "Wicked." And so, in celebration of Oscar Sunday, I invited Monica on to talk about how she embodied Baez, the vocal lessons required, the deep autobiographical research she did to make the performance feel true and lived in, and a whole lot more.

• 2:04Sam Fragoso?

  Before we get into it, I just wanted to take a moment here at the top to honor my late grandmother, Jan Myers. She passed away this week at the age of 85. The only thing that rivaled her love for her grandkids was her love for film and theater. For decades, she directed and acted in plays as part of the Alleghen Community Players in Michigan. My mom still talks about her performance as Mother Superior in The Sound of Music. Even my dad called me this week to talk about this production she mounted of Oklahoma. I never got to see any of this. By the time I was born, she was mostly working as a social worker and substitute teacher. But what I did get to see, what I got to

• 2:49Sam Fragoso?

  experience, was a woman whose love for the arts was completely infectious. For years, every Oscar weekend, we'd have these long calls about the nominees, what she liked, what I liked, comparing ballots, arguing over what will win versus what should win. She never got to see a complete unknown, but I could imagine her in the movie theater, being transported back to that period of American life, an era in which both her and Joan were just young 20-somethings, trying to make their voices heard in a world determined to tune them out. I can imagine her calling me this weekend to talk about the Oscars,

• 3:34Sam Fragoso?

  which of course was just a pretense, an excuse to connect and revel in this shared passion of ours, a passion she cultivated in me throughout childhood and without which I would not be hosting this show today. And so with that, much love to her on this Oscar Sunday. And here is Monica Barbaro.

• 4:16Sam Fragoso?

  Monica Barbaro, thank you for being here.

• 4:18Speaker 00

  Thank you for having me.

• 4:20Sam Fragoso?

  How are you feeling?

• 4:20Speaker 00

  So good.

• 4:24Sam Fragoso?

  It's weird because you are a good actor, but that was so not convincing.

• 4:27Speaker 00

  I didn't feel the need to convince you.

• 4:30Sam Fragoso?

  You don't have to.

• 4:30Speaker 00

  I actually started with your producer outside. I was complaining about something in the elevator, my poor team following me around today. I was like, oh, my God, look at this text of all these things I need to respond to. And I can't believe they want to have my reps want to have a phone call after this entire day. And then we like pop out of the elevator, walk down the hallway. Your producer's like, hi, I'm like, hi, hello. And that fractured so quickly. It just, I completely, I tried for about five minutes and then I was like, no, I am broken.

• 4:59Sam Fragoso?

  And then you met me.

• 5:00Speaker 00

  I met you.

• 5:01Sam Fragoso?

  Fellow broken person.

• 5:03Speaker 00

  Let's undo our top buttons and relax.

• 5:07Sam Fragoso?

  Right. And for context, for the listeners, she does literally mean unbutton the top button, which we both did because my pants are too tight.

• 5:17Speaker 00

  That's how.

• 5:18Sam Fragoso?

  It was kind of a metaphor for what this conversation is going to be.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. I hope there's someone at work listening to this podcast with a top button undone and feeling seen, or they're not undone and they're like, you know what, I can.

• 5:32Sam Fragoso?

  That's a good idea. Sam and Monica came up with it. I want to start with the movie. You play the legendary Joan Baez, opposite Timothy Chalamet as Bob Dylan. The film begins in 1961 Greenwich Village, where at that time she was kind of the queen of folk music and Dylan is just this young 19 year old from Minnesota. But the film is not like your conventional biopic, like in part because of director James Mangold, who told you upon first meeting him that the main inspiration for the movie was Amadeus. How did that movie, which is about Mozart, shape your understanding of how this story was going to be told, how you were going to move through the world?

• 6:17Speaker 00

  Well, I watched it right after Jim told me that. I rewatched it right after he told me that. In that movie Mozart doesn't stand there and like monologue about why he is the way he is. He doesn't explain himself. What you get is a, an understanding of this person based on the reflections of everyone around him, the impressions he's left on the people around him. And that was similar to the structure of this. So I was just excited to get to be one of those people who, who Bob, you know, made an impression on. Obviously, like you said, Joan stood in her own right. She, she was this independent performer person. And that was really important to Jim to maintain. And he, he would

• 7:02Speaker 00

  kind of say, you know, she's sort of kind of the only one who doesn't really get wrapped up in his orbit in a way that like, you know, robs her of her autonomy. Um, one way he showed that was always having her with her guitar. If you watch a lot of old footage, she doesn't have her guitar when she duets with Bob, especially during that time. Um, and I, you know, being sort of like a slave to my own research and, and just trying to be as authentic as possible. I'd be like, but she didn't have a guitar here. Also, it's really hard to share a single mic with two guitars.

• 7:37Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  But yeah, so she, she wouldn't have her guitar in a lot of those situations. And Bob was like, I love this image. And he would like put his arm, like hands out to show me in the frame essentially with my guitar. And I'd be like, okay. And he's totally right. I think it's one of those symbols of her autonomy in this movie amongst, you know, many others and, and the way she is at the end. And, you know, it's definitely not to say that she's not affected by him. Of course she is, but he just really maintained her, her strength.

• 8:08Sam Fragoso?

  I like that the entry point into understanding Dylan is by how he affects the people around him.

• 8:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:15Sam Fragoso?

  None more so than. Your character in a way, who at the time, by 1962, she's on the cover of Time Magazine, introducing folk music to a new, younger audience. Like, the problem with most biopics is that it's really hard to play a great artist whose work you already know and love. Because in turn, you have to, as a performer, also be great to approximate their greatness.

• 8:42Speaker 00

  It's a great way of putting it, yeah.

• 8:44Sam Fragoso?

  Like, you know when movies about comedians?

• 8:46Speaker 00

  Oh, God.

• 8:47Sam Fragoso?

  And then you're like, the problem is, it's not funny.

• 8:50Speaker 00

  Oh, God.

• 8:51Sam Fragoso?

  So then, no one's funny, but it's about a funny person who's being unfunny in front of you. But then people are telling you, no, this is a generational comic.

• 8:59Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 8:59Sam Fragoso?

  So when it comes to Joan, you have to figure out her voice and her musical talents. You had never sung or played guitar in any serious way before this movie. Tell me, like, what did a typical day with Eric Vitro look like?

• 9:17Speaker 00

  I mean, the main things with him that we worked on were expanding my range. I didn't sing very high, didn't have experience doing that.

• 9:28Sam Fragoso?

  He's a vocal coach who helps a lot of people.

• 9:30Speaker 00

  He's a vocal coach. Ariana Grande worked with him for Wicked. She works with him on, I think, all her albums. And he's her guy. Sabrina Carpenter, a lot of like, there are a lot of pop musicians who work with him. A lot of actors work with him. Austin Butler did Elvis with him. Renee Zellweger, Judy, like, he's on another level. He also, like, it's fun, because like, he's a, I don't know, I should say, admit this. He's a bit of a gossip. Well, everyone who's trained with him now knows this. He can be a gossip, and so it's also, you also have a good time with him, I will say.

• 10:03Sam Fragoso?

  So in between gossiping?

• 10:04Speaker 00

  In between gossiping.

• 10:05Sam Fragoso?

  What are some of the warmups he would make you do? Can we do them together?

• 10:09Speaker 00

  I'm way too shy to do the warmups in here. Oh, my God, no way.

• 10:12Sam Fragoso?

  Come on, let's give it a go. It'll wake you up, it'll wake me up.

• 10:16Speaker 00

  No. Well, I started this, by the way, coming into this room and asking if I could jump out the window. Now you're asking me to, now I'm gonna jump out the window now.

• 10:27Sam Fragoso?

  So you're saying you would rather jump out a window that can't open than do a vocal warmup?

• 10:32Speaker 00

  I'm just be ramming myself into this unopenable window.

• 10:35Sam Fragoso?

  By the way, that will be the headline that comes out of this podcast. Oscar-nominated actor Monica Barbaro.

• 10:42Speaker 00

  He tries so hard. To jump out a window.

• 10:46Sam Fragoso?

  Minutes within starting the Talk Easy podcast declares, "I'm jumping out a window."

• 10:52Speaker 00

  Hey, man, run with it. I think it's good.

• 10:55Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, I think it's good for me because no one else will come on the show after that.

• 10:57Speaker 00

  I'll never get nominated again.

• 10:59Sam Fragoso?

  You won't ever be here again.

• 11:02Speaker 00

  True. And I probably won't get nominated anyway on the probability of all of any of this.

• 11:07Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, please. I love that it's her first priority is death, maybe, but most importantly, I won't get nominated.

• 11:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, oh, maybe I shouldn't do that because it might ruin my chance for nominations. And what's a vacation? Look, I woke up today and my publicist said, "Just be yourself," and he was mistaken. This is the most unhinged interview I have done this entire time.

• 11:29Sam Fragoso?

  It's gonna be the most interesting.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:30Sam Fragoso?

  So you don't want to do any of the vocal warmups?

• 11:32Speaker 00

  Oh, my God, I don't think I can do the vocal warmups. You should get Ariana Grande in here and do the vocal warmups. They're inherently embarrassing. Here's the thing about vocal warmups. I felt so shy about doing them. I even moved into a house during the making of this movie and immediately was shy about, I had been shy about apartment neighbors listening to me. And then when I moved, I was like, this should solve everything. Immediately was like, oh, no, can you hear me through these walls? Terrified, especially with vocal warmups because they're inherently obnoxious sounding. You don't have to be super loud with them, but they're just, they just sound unhinged. And I feel very self-conscious all the time anyway.

• 12:13Sam Fragoso?

  You do?

• 12:13Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. I really don't seem like it right now. Oh, my God. You're reading me at my least self-conscious. I'm just saying everything on my mind. And this is probably why I need to be self-conscious. No, yeah, I just, I don't, I don't like showing anyone any part of my process. I'm happy to kind of talk about it, but I feel sort of like protective of it. Sometimes it can be, I don't know, actors, like, we do weird.

• 12:40Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, it's embarrassing.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  Stuff. Well, and ultimately, you have to, like, just exist in this space without shame. But for some reason, a lot of what you do to get there, just for me, feels like it can come off as self-indulgent or performative. And like, the intention is so the opposite. And yet you gotta go to these weird places. And for me, vocal warmups are kind of that thing. Like, part of my challenge in learning guitar was feeling so self-conscious about how bad I was for so long. It was so much easier to practice when, A, I liked the sound of it. And B, like, I felt like people around me wouldn't be just like cringing at the sound of me playing. And my dream is to have a room that, like, in my house or separate from my house, somewhere

• 13:26Speaker 00

  that is completely soundproof. I think that would be the freest space I could possibly have to experiment and play and not be afraid of making mistakes.

• 13:39Sam Fragoso?

  I do sense that you have a perfectionist streak.

• 13:43Speaker 00

  Oh, God.

• 13:44Sam Fragoso?

  As someone who similarly suffers from this sickness, and it is a sickness.

• 13:49Speaker 00

  It is an illness, for sure.

• 13:51Sam Fragoso?

  I want to hold this quote from an interview Joan Bia said in The New Yorker a couple of years ago.

• 13:56Speaker 00

  Thank you for finally pulling, I think I know what you're gonna say, go ahead.

• 13:59Sam Fragoso?

  She was talking about her creative process, specifically with paintings. And she said, "With the paintings, a lot of artist friends will say, loosen up. If I really don't like what's happening, I drop the drawing in the swimming pool. If I've gotten too precise about it, the imperfection brings it to life." One of my friends said, "Tell me just one thing that will last. Make as many mistakes as you can. When you're trying to make it perfect, trying to make it exactly what you want it to be, then it's time to drop it into the pool."

• 14:29Speaker 00

  I have been misquoting that for months and saying, I should really find the quote and read it.

• 14:35Sam Fragoso?

  You were waiting to talk to me.

• 14:36Speaker 00

  Thank you, I was just waiting for you. What was the line, the precise?

• 14:41Sam Fragoso?

  "If I've gotten too precise about it, the imperfection brings it to life."

• 14:45Speaker 00

  I need that tattooed to the insides of my eyelids.

• 14:51Sam Fragoso?

  So did you have experiences at some point of dropping the performance in the pool? Where you're like, this is, I'm doing too much in one direction, or I'm trying to do too much, and it's actually not feeling human and real and imperfect, like she's saying?

• 15:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, I felt like that often. And what I would lean on in those moments, a couple of people who who helped me with this were Eric Vitro and Nick Baxter, who was our music producer. He would encourage me to get away from trying to exact her sound and instead tell the story of the song and like, keep remembering, just to tell the story with the song, really. We would do takes where it was like all technical and all vibrato and, you know, I would play with dynamics. But like, as soon as I would just take all my brain imagination space and and instead envision

• 15:54Speaker 00

  what I'm saying in the song. As soon as I did that, I was so dialed into some imagined experience that I would finish the recording and he'd be like, that was it. And the nice thing about that is that I also got to take a trip through some other storyline and not really cloud my vision with, you know, corrections and critiques that just like happen constantly when you're a when you're a perfectionist. I think it's in part like ballet. I mean, my ballet background, like you do things and then you get corrections as you're doing them constantly. And that's just like, that's how that brain functions. And it's chicken or the egg. I mean, I think I was drawn to it for a reason, but I think

• 16:38Speaker 00

  it also really reinforced that kind of thinking for me. And so it takes a lot to break apart from that. And I can tell when I'm acting and watching myself and I can tell when I'm singing and listening to myself. And like, it just turns out when you're when you're trying to be too precise.

• 16:56Sam Fragoso?

  Put it at me when you said that.

• 16:57Speaker 00

  Well, your quote, you found it. You're when you I'm pointing. You're when you're trying to be too precise. I was like, finish my sentence. What is their quote?

• 17:08Speaker 00

  What is it? I've already forgotten. My my short term memory has completely.

• 17:14Sam Fragoso?

  I'm gonna give you, I'll give it to you when we leave.

• 17:16Speaker 00

  Oh, my God. Thank you. Cut it out. Glue it to my.

• 17:20Sam Fragoso?

  If I'm not.

• 17:24Sam Fragoso?

  Geez, two unwell people here. If I've gotten too precise about it, the imperfection brings it to life.

• 17:30Speaker 00

  That, yeah, yeah. And I think the imperfection, I don't know. I mean, I think, I think imperfection is so attractive. I know my favorite musicians are so imperfect. And, or my favorite parts of what they do are, are the parts where they, you know, fracture.

• 17:48Sam Fragoso?

  Well, why don't we take a listen to what that sounded like in the end? What you arrived at when you do make this movie? This is Monica Barbour as Joan Baez, singing "House of the Rising Sun" in the movie A Complete Unknown.

• 18:13Speaker 02

  If I had listened to what my mother said, I'd have been at home today. But I was young and foolish. Oh, God, let a rambler lead me astray.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Go tell my baby sister, don't do what I have done.

• 19:06Speaker 02

  But shun that house in new leaves. They call the rising sun.

• 19:25Sam Fragoso?

  But coming back, you mentioned ballet, which is where you started performing. You grew up in Marin County, dancing at the Marin Ballet in San Rafael. Do you think that experience made you uniquely suited, in terms of structure and discipline, to throw yourself into this part?

• 19:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, the thing ballet gave me is a certain level of snobbery, where I think a lot of dancers feel this way. You can tell immediately when someone's portraying a dancer who isn't one.

• 19:56Sam Fragoso?

  So this is snobbery, right here?

• 19:59Speaker 00

  This is, so this is your, this is what comes out of snobbery and perfectionism? This train wreck? But in particular about things like training thing, where it's like you're portraying someone who has done something for their whole life, and that looks different than a person who's been doing it for five months. So as an actor, the job is to make it look in five months like you've been doing this your whole life or since you were 14. And that takes just a complete overhaul of your time and your life, and that's what it gave me in terms of discipline.

• 20:39Sam Fragoso?

  And your life was dominated by ballet, growing up?

• 20:43Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 20:43Sam Fragoso?

  So you're like, you grow up in Mill Valley. Both your parents loved the arts. Your father was a neurosurgeon who harbored dreams of being a pianist. Your mother was a nurse who would take you and your two older siblings to the ballet, to the opera, to the symphony.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, she wasn't a nurse by the time I was. She stopped when she had my sister, my oldest sister.

• 21:05Sam Fragoso?

  Formerly a nurse.

• 21:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:07Sam Fragoso?

  Basically, she would expose you to all kinds of art, except for television, which I read was not permitted in your house.

• 21:14Speaker 00

  No. Well, it wasn't, and my stepmom, by the way, was in the San Francisco Opera when she and my dad started dating, and then she stopped.

• 21:23Sam Fragoso?

  Your parents split up at four?

• 21:25Speaker 00

  Yes. Yeah.

• 21:26Sam Fragoso?

  He remarries at eight.

• 21:28Speaker 00

  He, yes.

• 21:29Sam Fragoso?

  In your eight.

• 21:29Speaker 00

  At when I was about eight. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Really thorough research.

• 21:34Sam Fragoso?

  But so I guess like, did you think that the only way to be an artist was through fine arts?

• 21:41Speaker 00

  My mom did watch TV. We just, we had like basic cable and like my TV time was kind of limited. But yeah, there was definitely, um, you could say there was, um, an element of elitism about the arts. Like we're, it's like New Yorker reading, symphony going family for sure. And yet every Christmas, my dad's favorite movie is, um, Christmas Vacation. He watches it every single year without fail. My mom and dad, like the one show that they could agree on was Law and Order.

• 22:19Sam Fragoso?

  My favorite.

• 22:20Speaker 00

  It's so good.

• 22:22Sam Fragoso?

  So they weren't so highbrow that they couldn't enjoy Law and Order?

• 22:26Speaker 00

  Yeah. The Law and Order, I guess, has its own sort of like, it's educated, right? All of the writers are ex-lawyers. Like it's intelligent. I don't know if I could totally say the same thing about Christmas Vacation. My dad loves it.

• 22:40Sam Fragoso?

  No, no. Christmas Vacation is written exclusively by ex-lawyers.

• 22:45Sam Fragoso?

  That's how it's so funny.

• 22:47Speaker 00

  It does feel, it is that like biting, uh, Chevy Chase.

• 22:51Sam Fragoso?

  You know how litigious people can be funny?

• 22:54Speaker 00

  They, they can.

• 22:55Sam Fragoso?

  They can.

• 22:56Speaker 00

  You know.

• 22:56Sam Fragoso?

  What did you like?

• 22:57Speaker 00

  I loved, um, one of my favorite movies of all time is, was, uh, Romy Michelle's High School Reunion.

• 23:05Sam Fragoso?

  Incredible.

• 23:05Speaker 00

  I had one of those like little TVs with the VHS thing attached to the like big, it's big. Now it, now it wouldn't seem little, but it was a small TV. And I ruined my VHS copy because I watched Romy Michelle's High School Reunion so many times. And they're so funny. I heard, someone sent me this thing about them being potentially in talks to do like a sequel. And like, I, having been in a sequel that people dreaded, I want to just be supportive of every. Everything but and just know that like a new movie can't ruin the old one. But also like it's an intense experience to think like, oh, my God, you're revisiting this. This thing that I love so much. Whoa, I didn't even think about that.

• 23:48Speaker 00

  I feel like I'm trying to live the businesswoman special every day. I bring it up and then I'm like, have you seen Romeo and Juliet? God, I love them so much.

• 23:56Sam Fragoso?

  Give me a sense of like, like you said, like your parents split up at four when you're four. And then your father got remarried at eight. And I heard you say in one interview that it's still shocking to me that I had to pack a case every week to move between my parents' homes.

• 24:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, I packed a bag weekly and moved. I remember when I was really, really young, I felt so guilty if I didn't want to leave one house. Oh, my God, you're gonna make me cry. If I didn't want to leave one parent's house, I would feel guilty about that going to the other. Your knowing nod and the eye, the eye like slow blink eye roll, kind of like, absolutely, I understand you nod was what made me feel like crying. Cause it's it's this thing that like, it's this very specific feeling that you are raised with. And it's really complicated between two parents in that situation.

• 24:54Speaker 00

  I don't know what a better solution would be, and I don't blame them for what that was. But my God, it's it's it's crazy that like formative. I mean, I think my first memory is my parents getting divorced. Even though they like, you know, there wasn't like all that much animosity between them. I think comparatively to some other divorces I heard about. It wasn't like they just, they split up. I mean, divorce is hard no matter what. And they weren't like besties by any stretch, but but it wasn't as contentious as it could have been.

• 25:23Sam Fragoso?

  Why does my knowing nod make you want to cry?

• 25:27Speaker 00

  You're just trying to get me to cry again.

• 25:30Sam Fragoso?

  I'm just trying to understand.

• 25:33Speaker 00

  You know, it's all coming back for me right now in a really interesting way because as I was doing A Complete Unknown, I was going back and forth between the movie and Toronto to shoot a show that I'm on called Fubar. And I would like wake up and not know where I was and like just living out of a suitcase. And I, I started to remember that being so dramatic for me, that feeling so unsettled and so unstable. I mean, I, I'm drawn to my profession, I think in part because I like the change up and I like, I'm good at adapting to new places, but like never really landing

• 26:13Speaker 00

  in any way. I was like, oh, I grew up in this environment and I kind of can't believe as an adult, I can't imagine putting a child through that. I can't imagine how I managed to do, it just was my circumstances. And, but that is so, it changes you as a person to be that uprooted, weakly. And my dad would be like, what is this mess in your room? You're living out, it's like you're living out of a suitcase. And I'm like, well.

• 26:44Sam Fragoso?

  Subconsciously, do you think you recreated the conditions of your childhood now as a working actor?

• 26:50Speaker 00

  Probably. I think I try not to. I have not been in my home for longer than like a 10 day stretch since March. I, I don't know if I've ever in my life just known I would be like waking up in the same place every morning for a stretch longer than a couple of months. And that is wild. And it's like, I could say it's comfortable for me or maybe I'm attracted to it. It's normalcy, like my homeostasis.

• 27:21Sam Fragoso?

  You may just be good at it.

• 27:22Speaker 00

  But I don't think it's comfortable. Yeah. I don't think it, and sometimes I feel like I'm telling people about it or like it comes up and people are like, wow, that's really crazy. But when you meet someone who gets it.

• 27:32Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 27:32Speaker 00

  It's just, there's just an undercurrent of understanding.

• 27:35Sam Fragoso?

  I think it's the distinction between being good at something doesn't necessarily mean it's good for you.

• 27:41Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Of course.

• 27:42Sam Fragoso?

  And that's hard to reckon with because I suspect we both like to be good at the things that we do.

• 27:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:48Sam Fragoso?

  Even if they're not always serving us or working for us.

• 27:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:52Sam Fragoso?

  But when you do decide to give this a go.

• 27:56Speaker 00

  Acting?

• 27:56Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah. Like, you go to NYU to study dance.

• 28:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:01Sam Fragoso?

  You fully graduate with a degree in dance.

• 28:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:05Sam Fragoso?

  And then after graduating, you're like, I don't know. I maybe want to pursue this acting thing. You said once, I guess you could compare it to being with someone and you know it's not quite right. You love them, but not enough, and you can't stop thinking about doing other things with your life. That's kind of how I was with ballet. So how did you decide to break up with ballet?

• 28:30Speaker 00

  I was really burnt out and my body was exhausted and there was no foreseeable financial relief in that, you know, there was no, there was no like lucrative ends to where I was headed with dance. And I, I was not particularly interested in becoming a dancer on Broadway. And that, that would have been the best financial possibility for me. It was the end of the recession when I graduated and I just knew, I had known for a long time. It really is that feeling. You're like, I just know this isn't for me. And that feels like a weird thing to say because it feels like I'm somehow like rejecting dance, but I have the utmost respect for it and love it.

• 29:14Speaker 00

  And like, just was in a dance studio yesterday for something, but I couldn't pursue it to the degree that I've pursued acting. So I just didn't care in that way. I call myself a commitment phobe, but I actually like have committed wholeheartedly to this career in a way that has uprooted my life.

• 29:30Sam Fragoso?

  That's who you put on the dating apps is commitment phobe?

• 29:32Speaker 00

  Commitment phobe. Yeah. Oh, I tell people very early on when I, yeah. It's cool. And it's probably my childhood is fine. I, I don't know. I, I think somewhere in me, I actually have always known that like I will commit completely to something, to, to like my work. And I wanted to be able to give that energy to something, but I just needed to know that I cared so much about it. And I just didn't want to be in a studio all the time.

• 29:59Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 29:59Speaker 00

  And acting gives you the chance to take on, you know, a thousand different skills and live as many lives as you can pack into your schedule, sort of.

• 30:12Sam Fragoso?

  So you moved back to San Francisco?

• 30:14Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:14Sam Fragoso?

  And you begin to really give this a go.

• 30:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:17Sam Fragoso?

  You go to the Barnes and Noble and buy the book, How to Be a Working Actor.

• 30:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. I think I still have it somewhere.

• 30:25Sam Fragoso?

  What did the book help you with? Like, was it useful?

• 30:29Speaker 00

  It was really useful. I remember it had little anecdotes, like, I guess Michael Caine lied on his original resume. He said something like he was in the play waiting for Godot as Godot. And he went into an audition and they were like, you realize he never shows up in the play. And he was like, oops, it's so good.

• 30:47Sam Fragoso?

  Did you have your version of that?

• 30:49Speaker 00

  No, I mean, I learned how to, but it taught me how to like write an acting resume specifically. I was in New York for that summer and planning to move back to San Francisco. I had no money and just was like, oh, God, what, what am I gonna do? And it said in there, like, it can be useful to actually start your career in smaller markets, like, you know, smaller cities where there's acting opportunity, but it's not quite as big of a pond. And San Francisco was one of those places. It was like Chicago and San Francisco were some great places to start acting, get your feet wet, do student film, short films. There's training program, you know, like the resources available to you and potentially

• 31:31Speaker 00

  work. And I was like, great, I'll move home. And it even had like sfcasting.com. And I got on that site and uploaded a headshot that they forced me to take and pay for NYU. And, um, and I uploaded my new version of a resume that I learned how to write and started self submitting.

• 31:51Sam Fragoso?

  It goes pretty well in the beginning. You get commercials, you're in a bunch of short films. It's my understanding that you had some contact with a manager that you believed was going to represent you. And when you land in the city, she sends you an email that says, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna take you on, but it's good you're here to see if this is really for you.

• 32:11Speaker 00

  I can't believe I, where did you find that? Have I already told someone that in an interview?

• 32:16Sam Fragoso?

  No, no, I called her up this morning.

• 32:19Speaker 00

  Is she eating her words?

• 32:20Sam Fragoso?

  She is. She is. She actually hasn't slept since the Oscars were announced.

• 32:28Speaker 00

  You know, honestly, I think every bit of struggle has been so

• 32:33Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 32:33Speaker 00

  helpful for me. That did not, that felt terrible when it happened.

• 32:38Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, tell me.

• 32:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:39Sam Fragoso?

  How did you hold that rejection? How did you move past it? That must have been an upsetting email to get.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  I just love the like, see if this is for you.

• 32:47Sam Fragoso?

  Oh.

• 32:48Speaker 00

  I had had an acting class in San Francisco with a lot of close friends and a really lovely teacher who really believed in me. And that was really helpful. And I had proven myself in a way, and I mention this when I can, in these spaces of awards where like, the idea of being in a film that is getting this attention, it's like, these five supporting performances that are nominated, like, yes, are excellent performances. But like, it also takes being in a movie that's revered. It takes having had the opportunity. It's that year that that movie is ahead of the others.

• 33:32Speaker 00

  It's if you look at like, the list of movies that came out in 99, it's like, the competition is insane. There are so many things that have to go right for you to even be in this position. And like, I always say, I've seen acting performances in acting class, in like, scene study class in LA and San Francisco, that I would give awards to. But nobody sees them. And I just, I've had experiences. I don't think Joan is necessarily, like, like having played Joan in this movie is the best thing I've ever done as an actor. But it's definitely the best thing I've done that people see.

• 34:08Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, I think the best thing you've done, but you can't find it, is playing Jogger Number One in the short film Touchdown.

• 34:16Speaker 00

  That's my brother's favorite IMDb credit for me. It's like, so Jogger Number One. But it's like, at that time, I was working on Cat in a Hot Tin Roof. Like, it's just, it's, I guess what I'm trying to say is like, I had an undercurrent of belief in myself and like, support through a community that nobody knows about, that was like, putting Wind in my sails and I've experienced so much disappointment, but I was also like, I've committed this far. I love it. I was in that like toxic love with it. And I just kept going and then kept training and figured there was something to learn. And if I had gotten the attention of a manager, I could maybe do that again.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  And maybe the timing would make more sense. And I'm glad I had two years of absolute painful struggle and like no jobs aside from, I think, one or two commercials to bang my head against a wall, try improv, like have fun, obsess over work and like learn how really difficult it is to create a career in this industry from nothing.

• 35:22Sam Fragoso?

  So you knew her email was wrong?

• 35:25Speaker 00

  I think some days I would wake up and feel like she's right. And I think some moments I would feel like she was wrong. And I think that's just kind of how that goes. And I don't think she necessarily would have been wrong if within me I went, she's right and I don't want to do this, or I, I like hate this and I want to quit. It was always an option to quit and I just didn't take it. It wasn't about whether she was right or wrong. Whether she was right or wrong depended on what I did next.

• 36:06Sam Fragoso?

  After the break, what Monica Barbaro did next.

• 36:19Sam Fragoso?

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• 37:50Sam Fragoso?

  When Top Gun got nominated,

• 37:51Speaker 00

  Mm, yeah.

• 37:52Sam Fragoso?

  you went to the Oscars and you said, "You want to believe that this could happen, that you could go back to that room. You want to be hopeful that you'll be back there. But there's been so much working against me that I don't take things like that very lightly." What did you mean by that? Like, things working against you?

• 38:10Speaker 00

  I've always understood that the likelihood of becoming a working actor is very low. And so when I became a working actor, I knew it was monumental. I didn't have anything really telling me that that was a shoo-in. I mean, and I think, like I said, I recognized people were doing... I met people in acting classes who had been putting up excellent work for decades and weren't working. Getting work is like, it's almost a whole different job. And so I think I just was keenly aware of that. I went to a SAG meeting when I first moved to LA like, okay, I'm a part of this union now.

• 38:52Speaker 00

  Like, and my God, like, these actors who were explaining their resumes and then telling this panel that like, they had no money and that their pension was, I was like, oh my God, I'm so screwed. And it's so hard to get to a place where you can rely on your financial. I mean, I still don't feel like I'm in a place where I could just like coast financially. It's just so hard to build an acting career. I don't take any of that for granted. And I'm so, I feel so lucky to be a working actor. And any accolades that have come my way, any jobs that come my way, like, one of my immediate thoughts, like, yeah, of course, the artistic satisfaction of working on certain projects is just like unbelievable. It's miraculous.

• 39:37Speaker 00

  But also, there's a part of me somewhere that goes like, oh, good, then I'll be able to work again after this. Like Top Gun, I was like, you know, if this goes well, hopefully, I'll get more work after because I've been associated with this project. But even that, I was like, I can't rest on laurels. Like, just in case this doesn't go well, let's make sure, you know, I gotta make sure my team is still submitting for me for, you know, I don't know, it breathes a certain kind of anxiety and desperation a little bit, this business.

• 40:09Sam Fragoso?

  When you did Top Gun, you talked to some women who fly planes and fight. And they talked about working in a male-dominated industry and working twice as hard to get half as far. And, you know, in reading about your life, I was re-watching the movie last night, and there's that scene in Complete Unknown between you and Timothy.

• 40:35Speaker 00

  I had lessons as a kid, you know, normal lessons. I write, too. I'm not sure there's a way to learn that.

• 40:45Speaker 03

  Too hard.

• 40:47Speaker 00

  Excuse me?

• 40:51Speaker 03

  You try too hard to write.

• 40:55Speaker 00

  Really?

• 40:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you're asking.

• 40:59Speaker 00

  I wasn't.

• 41:02Speaker 03

  The sunsets and seagulls, smell of buttercups. Your songs are like an oil painting at the dentist's office.

• 41:11Speaker 00

  You're kind.

• 41:12Speaker 03

  An asshole, Bob.

• 41:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, I guess.

• 41:18Sam Fragoso?

  I've seen the movie now three times and I at once look forward to that scene that we just heard and dread that scene. And it's such a demoralizing, painful moment that she takes on the chin really well. I couldn't help but think like, if any part of you was brought back to those two really painful years in Los Angeles and those lines, like trying to make it in an industry often run by men that treat women unfairly, where people try to put you down in a way that Dylan did to Joan in that scene.

• 41:57Speaker 00

  I don't know that I feel so gendered about it. I think I just feel like my inherent self doubt is, I think I've even seen, more than anything, I think, how I connected with that moment if I did personally. It's sort of like, sometimes I watch my own work or feel about my own work like, oh, it's too safe.

• 42:21Sam Fragoso?

  You believe that?

• 42:22Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. Not all the time, but I, but I've definitely, I definitely have certain judgments about myself and my look and my, you know, what I bring to the table and, and like when I see my perfectionism at play, I get frustrated with what I'm putting out. I, I think I sort of relate, related to that moment in, in that way, that if someone said to me the exact thing I was most in fear of playing or representing in my, in my artwork, if someone essentially said to me like, well, your acting's kind of boring, or, this happened in dance too, where like I had a ballet background. And so in modern,

• 43:04Speaker 00

  I was, it was sort of like, oh, you're, you're balletic and, and that is not cool. And so to have that pointed out to you is a frustrating experience. And it's one of those things where like the insult hits harder because you kind of maybe believe it a little bit yourself and-

• 43:24Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, the 10% of you that goes, everyone else is wrong. That person sees me, right?

• 43:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, especially when you hear Joan talking about like her interest in imperfection and throwing things in a pool and wanting to be free. Calling her work overly beautified is like that exact thing he knows to say to fuck her up. And so that's kind of how I saw it. I don't know that I felt gendered about it, really. I think it can go both ways.

• 43:53Sam Fragoso?

  Anyone making something, yeah.

• 43:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, if someone can cut, it's like internet commenting, like there's that one comment someone will make on a thing and you're like, they know I'm a fraud. I think it's interesting, like I find I change, like criticism has really, it doesn't hit me in the same way that it used to. Like that comment of, see if this is for you. I have no animosity toward that woman whatsoever. I completely.

• 44:24Sam Fragoso?

  I do on your behalf, but okay.

• 44:26Speaker 00

  Thank you. But I understand where she's coming from and she's probably navigating, like, young girl coming to town in LA, like dime a dozen. And I kind of want to like, I think it'd be really interesting to talk to her.

• 44:41Sam Fragoso?

  You should invite her to the Oscars.

• 44:43Speaker 00

  I had a moment with, yeah, can you be my guest? No, that makes me mad. I would never. That, now I'm mad at her again.

• 44:50Sam Fragoso?

  I got you back.

• 44:51Speaker 00

  I don't even know who I'm gonna bring, but it's not her. But I think, you just invited her back into my space, I'm like, no. No, but it's interesting, I actually had an interaction recently, I'll give like as much as I can of this without exposing this person. I had an interaction with this person who I like grew up with, who I found to be in the dance space, to be someone I was afraid of, and she was critical of me. That's my memory of it. I don't know how she would remember it. It was the craziest thing, we ran into each other, she's actually, no, she's definitely gonna know who I'm talking about. She's working closely with me on this, actually. It was just this crazy circumstance where it was this person from my past who's meeting

• 45:31Speaker 00

  me in this space now, and it's all support and all love, and I'm like height of my career, but we came from this. Place where in high school, in the space that we shared, I felt she hated me. I felt that she did not like that I got good parts in ballet. Like, we had a relationship where I was in fear of this person. And then to meet her so many years later and have this incredible cordial conversation, I was sort of like, wow, this is really healing for me. This is like, I don't know, it's kind of amazing to run into people later. And again, I'm at, I'm at a really peak point in my life where someone saying, maybe this isn't for you,

• 46:11Speaker 00

  doesn't get to me because it's so, I'm so clearly validated right now in my decisions. And, you know, whether or not I deserved a part in ballet in high school has no relevance to me right now. I mean, it does in terms of my development, my psychology, whatever, but like, but it's kind of crazy to like, look back at these people who did sort of hurt you in some way, whether they meant to or not, and evaluate whether that still affects you or what, or how important they were to you. I'm not trying to just be like toxically optimistic. Clearly, I'm not that person, although the coffee is hitting and it changes me as a person.

• 46:54Speaker 00

  But I think, I do think all of those interactions are of value. I think internet critics suck, for the record, and they're wasting everyone's time.

• 47:03Sam Fragoso?

  Any of that stuff?

• 47:04Speaker 00

  Oh, uh, some, yeah, I do and I don't. I, I, honestly, doing this movie was very helpful because I did see a lot of people very critical of all kinds of things about me before ever seeing the movie. And then going like, well, they haven't even seen it yet. And I'm like, cool, there's your answer. They haven't even seen it yet. And like, in the end, they may hate you. And that's, that is what it is. And, and I think there was like someone trying to make the hashtag happen, not my Joan, when the trailer came out. And I was like, to be fair, I'm not my Joan either. Joan is my only Joan. And she's the coolest and I don't replace her. That's it.

• 47:41Sam Fragoso?

  Thank you for being, what was it? Toxically optimistic on my behalf?

• 47:45Speaker 00

  I don't know if it's, maybe it's just neutral. And I mean, but you're ambitious and you're a hard worker and you have perfectionism. So you see the negative, like you have the critical voice thing.

• 47:56Sam Fragoso?

  You mean the voice you have?

• 47:58Speaker 00

  The divorced parents.

• 47:59Sam Fragoso?

  Quarter Mexican, half Mexican.

• 48:01Speaker 00

  Are you really?

• 48:02Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 48:02Speaker 00

  Oh, my God, cool. How are we only touching on that now? It's everyone's favorite first thing to say to me.

• 48:08Sam Fragoso?

  Which is why I didn't say it.

• 48:09Speaker 00

  Thank you. That's how I know you really understand.

• 48:12Sam Fragoso?

  If we polled five people.

• 48:14Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 48:14Sam Fragoso?

  And we were like, which one do you think is half?

• 48:18Speaker 00

  Which one is a quarter? Well, I would assume it's a trick question and I would guess you.

• 48:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, do you look more like your non-Mexican parent?

• 48:32Sam Fragoso?

  I look like an amalgamation of both of them, but I don't look. My dad doesn't look that Mexican either, even though he's 100%.

• 48:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, like if you were in Mexico, speaking Spanish with the perfect Mexican accent, no one would think twice. Like you do fit in fine. It just, that's what I think a lot of people in the States don't understand. And a lot of people casting a lot of movies don't understand is that a lot of Mexicans don't look like what they think they mean when they're saying Mexicans.

• 49:01Sam Fragoso?

  Including Joan Baez.

• 49:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Often when people are stereotyping a Mexican look, they're talking about indigenous looking people. That's just a distinction, that's it.

• 49:11Sam Fragoso?

  Before you did the film. You would have dreams of being with Joan Baez in like a convertible.

• 49:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, we were on a highway in a convertible. This is, I was definitely gonna never tell anyone this. And then it just slowly, every interview gets more of it out of me. I feel like we hung out in different spaces at different times, but that's the one I remember most. And she was just laughing and I felt bright and spirited and it was joyous and light and lovely. And I think my subconscious was trying to tell me that it was gonna be okay.

• 49:45Sam Fragoso?

  So when you do speak to her.

• 49:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:47Sam Fragoso?

  On the phone.

• 49:48Speaker 00

  I was like, do you have a convertible?

• 49:50Sam Fragoso?

  Did you? Did you call her or did she call you?

• 49:53Speaker 00

  I was in the W Hoboken, where I was put up for this movie, where I learned to make eggs in a microwave and used an air press to make myself coffee every morning. And. I sat and I think I probably called, I think it was like, call this number at this time or something.

• 50:10Sam Fragoso?

  Mm hmm.

• 50:11Speaker 00

  And we got on the phone and I heard her say hello and I like, uh, kind of couldn't breathe. And then by the time we got off the phone, I like, we hung up and I just like flood.

• 50:24Sam Fragoso?

  When you're on a call like that.

• 50:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:26Sam Fragoso?

  Cause I've had a lot of people on the show that I've like grown up loving.

• 50:31Speaker 00

  Sorry, not me?

• 50:33Sam Fragoso?

  No, no, I grew up loving you. Like I said, the short film Touchdown, year 2013, maybe?

• 50:39Speaker 00

  I know, it was the jogger number one.

• 50:41Sam Fragoso?

  Jogger number one?

• 50:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 50:42Sam Fragoso?

  There was actually a part before that, that was an uncredited role in a film I can't remember the title of.

• 50:46Speaker 00

  That I did a Philip Kaufman movie. They say it's uncredited, but I'm in the credits. I don't understand what that means. It never ends.

• 50:53Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, so obviously I grew up loving your early formative work.

• 50:57Speaker 00

  Sorry, I didn't mean to derail on that.

• 50:58Sam Fragoso?

  That just happened.

• 50:59Speaker 00

  That was a dumb joke.

• 50:59Sam Fragoso?

  No, it was a good.

• 51:00Speaker 00

  No, you've grown up loving people, admiring people and like, what? The stakes are just so high. Sorry, I'll get you back on track because it wasn't even a funny.

• 51:07Sam Fragoso?

  It wasn't that bad. I mean, I've enjoyed this.

• 51:10Speaker 00

  I'm enjoying the hell out of it.

• 51:12Sam Fragoso?

  We've had a couple of good bits.

• 51:13Speaker 00

  I just, I wish, I always wish my vocabulary was better and that my sentences were stronger and that I was better at expressing myself.

• 51:21Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, so you are like everyone else in the world.

• 51:26Speaker 00

  Someone with their button unbuttoned at work is going, uh huh, and they're nodding and I feel emotional thinking about them with their.

• 51:33Sam Fragoso?

  We saw and heard our listeners in the beginning of this episode, we're also ending that way.

• 51:39Speaker 00

  Perfect.

• 51:40Sam Fragoso?

  When we have people that are older.

• 51:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:43Sam Fragoso?

  I'm not just meeting people, like I'm, I'm doing my job.

• 51:46Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 51:47Sam Fragoso?

  The same way you're not just calling Joan, you're doing your job.

• 51:50Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:51Sam Fragoso?

  So there's one track that goes. This is so weird. I'm talking to Joan Baez.

• 51:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:58Sam Fragoso?

  And I've had many episodes like that where I go, this is so weird. I'm talking to Frances Ford Coppola.

• 52:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:05Sam Fragoso?

  But then the other part of you goes, yeah, but I have to do a great job.

• 52:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:09Sam Fragoso?

  And the person that has to do a great job is not the same person who's like, I can't believe I'm talking to Joan Baez.

• 52:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 52:17Sam Fragoso?

  And so I want to know, as we go, like in that call, how are you holding the person that's nervous versus the person that's nervous to do a great job and be this woman that you love?

• 52:30Speaker 00

  I don't know. And I think I hung up that call probably in the whale walk away from this, where I will sit and I will question everything I said and did and was it, did I get enough information? Did I express myself clearly? Did I, did I do it right?

• 52:48Speaker 00

  The constant critic. But I think, I think that's so interesting, the way you say it, because I also have this crave, I mean, having researched, stalked, researched her so carefully and, um, and feeling a connection with a lot of, you know, elements of her and her life. And, um, I do have that craving to like, sit down and meet her.

• 53:16Sam Fragoso?

  Right. Untethered to the legacy of Dylan.

• 53:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. And completely untethered from awards. God, yeah. So far away from Dylan. I'm so much more interested in Joan. And just as two people, as two creative, I mean, I wouldn't have that opportunity if it weren't for this job. But like, I think now, having been through what we've been through, me representing her, her being talked about a ton in the context of this film, film that she had no control over. I, yeah, I would love to just actually have a normal-ish, nothing's normal about that situation, but like, have a normal-ish chat with her, which I imagine is probably how you feel with,

• 54:02Speaker 00

  like, you want to do a great job, but you're also like, man, the creative in me really wants to just like, kind of get weird.

• 54:09Sam Fragoso?

  As evidenced by this podcast, I can usually do both. As we leave, on the other side of the phone call, you create your portrait of her. You're nominated for an Oscar. As you're heading towards this day, this award ceremony, the end of this cycle, if we were to do this again in five years, what would you like to have done?

• 54:34Speaker 00

  I'm curious how I'll feel about everything in five years, but I think the coolest thing about all of this is that I get to continue working. And for the first time in my life, I don't constantly fear that I will be fired on everything I do. And that, and literally every time I rap something, I go, well, maybe I'll never work again. And that's been my whole career. It takes a long time to kind of beat that out of your system. And obviously it can all, I mean, still can all fall apart at any time. I also auditioned for something recently that I didn't get. And like, I love that. I like that I'm still a working actor,

• 55:19Speaker 00

  doing my best, getting to create, starting from scratch, walking onto set, feeling like, oh, God, am I going to be able to do anything good today? And that like, I get to keep doing all of that. I hope in five years I have furnished my home finally and have made some like personal moves that I won't share right now. But like, yeah, I don't know. I'm, I'm 35 and need to like, look at my life in a way that I haven't let myself. So I'm, I'm hoping there's like some personal development as well. But yeah, I just want to keep like, working with cool people and getting to like, create and get weird and mess up.

• 56:00Sam Fragoso?

  Well, I thank you for looking at your life together on a podcast.

• 56:04Speaker 00

  Thank you for such thorough research. Stop reading my journals. Jesus.

• 56:10Sam Fragoso?

  And most importantly, I hope on the other side of this, you can put the suitcase in the closet and let it sit there for a second. I think we have to button our top button now and leave.

• 56:22Speaker 00

  Oh, God, I forgot about having to button up again, literally.

• 56:25Sam Fragoso?

  I know.

• 56:27Sam Fragoso?

  You ready?

• 56:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm ready.

• 56:28Sam Fragoso?

  Okay. Monica Barbaro, thank you for coming on.

• 56:32Speaker 00

  Thank you for having me.

• 56:36Speaker 02

  On my window, leave at your own chosen speed. I'm not the one you want, babe.

• 56:50Speaker 03

  I am not the one you need. You say you're looking for someone never weak, but always strong. To protect you and defend you. Whether you are right or wrong. Someone to open each and every door. But it ain't me, babe. No, no, no, it ain't me, babe. It ain't me you're looking for, babe.

• 57:55Sam Fragoso?

  And that's our show. If you enjoyed that conversation with Monica Barbaro, please be sure to share it online, on social media with a friend, a family member, anyone that you think may enjoy the kind of conversations we have here each and every Sunday. I want to give a special thanks this week to Narrative PR, Searchlight, and of course, our guest, Monica Barbaro. Her Oscar nominated performance in the film A Complete Unknown is now available to watch on VOD. If you'd like to learn more about her and her work, visit our show notes at TalkEasyPod.com.

• 58:31Sam Fragoso?

  For more episodes with other Oscar nominated actors, I'd recommend Edward Norton, Mikey Madison, and Jesse Eisenberg. To hear those and more Lemonada Podcast, listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you like to listen. You can also subscribe to Lemonada Premium if you're interested in some bonus content. Just hit the subscribe button on Apple or head to lemonadapremium.com. If you want to drop us a line, you can email me at [email protected]. That's [email protected]. If you want to follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, we're at Talk Easy Pod. And of course, if you want to purchase one

• 59:10Sam Fragoso?

  of our mugs, they come in cream or navy, you can go to talkeasypod.com/shop. Talk Easy is produced by Caroline Reebok. Our executive producer is Janix Bravo. Today's talk was edited by Lindsay Ellis and mixed by Andrew Bastola. It was taped out of City Box here in New York City. Our music is by Dylan Peck. Our illustrations are by Chris Shannoy. Photographs today are by Jeb Burrows. Additional research comes from Ben Eisen. This episode was made in partnership with the good people at Lemonada Media, and I'm Sam Fragoso. Thank you for listening to Talk Easy. I'll see you back here next week with

• 59:48Sam Fragoso?

  a brand new episode. Until then, stay safe, so long, and my late grandmother, Jan Myers, 85 years old. May she rest in peace.

• 1:00:03Speaker 04

  I'm Dan Heath. On What It's Like to Be, I interview people about their jobs. Here's a married couple that drives a long haul truck together.

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  We backed up and they loaded fresh dead rats.

• 1:00:14Speaker 04

  I mean, how many rats would you guess were back there?

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  There were 32,000 pounds of them.

• 1:00:19Speaker 04

  32,000 pounds of frozen dead rats.

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  As I said.

• 1:00:25Speaker 04

  Find out what it's like to be a long haul trucker, a couples therapist, or an FBI agent, all on the podcast What It's Like to Be.

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  History gets written, then rewritten, sometimes by scholars correcting the record, sometimes by committees deciding. ...what a generation of kids will and won't learn. The version that makes it into the textbook isn't always the only story. It's the one that won out. That's the kind of thing Ground News was built for. It shows you how outlets across the spectrum tell the same story, side by side, so you can spot the shading for yourself. Ground News gives each outlet a factuality rating, so you know how much weight to give the source, and shows you who owns it, so you know what's behind it. The Nobel Peace Center called it "an excellent way to stay informed,

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