Bonus Episode - Suffering Souls, Subversion, and More Great Girl Groups

This week in the After Party, Jake is thinking about the connection between psychopathy, artistry, and trauma. So many great artists are also undeniably damaged people. Is their trauma at the root of both their artistry and their disgraceful behavior? Plus, we hear more from you on great girl groups! Next week, we're bringing you the terrifying story of Bjork and an obsessed fan , and Jake wants to know: What is the most wild and deranged story of obsessive fandom in music history? Tell Jake at 617-906-6638, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ mailto:[email protected], or on socials @disgracelandpod. For more great Disgraceland episodes, dive into our extensive archive, including such episodes as: Episode 12 - ⁠ https://www.disgracelandpod.com/093/taylor-swiftJames Brown Episode ⁠ https://www.disgracelandpod.com/105/britney-spears-pt-1155 and ⁠ https://www.disgracelandpod.com/106/britney-spears-pt-2215 - Sean "Diddy" Combs To hear an extended version of the After Party and unlock access to a monthly exclusive episode and ad free listening, become a Disgraceland All Access member at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠disgracelandpod.com/membership.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://disgracelandpod.com/membership. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.disgracelandpod.com/merch⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.disgracelandpod.com/merch to see the latest Disgraceland merch! Sign up for our newsletter and get the inside dirt on events, merch and other awesomeness - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠GET THE NEWSLETTER⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://mailchi.mp/doubleelvis/disgraceland-email-newsletter Follow Jake and DISGRACELAND: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/disgracelandpod/ ⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@disgracelandpod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://twitter.com/disgracelandpod (formerly Twitter) To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:10Jake Brennan?

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• 2:16Jake Brennan?

  Hey Discos. Need a little more DisgraceLand in your life? Just a touch to get you through? Yeah, me too. This is the podcast that comes after the podcast. Welcome to DisgraceLand, the after-party.

• 2:42Jake Brennan?

  Welcome to the DisgraceLand bonus episode, a little thing we like to call the after-party. This is the show after the show, the party after the party, the bridge to get you from one full episode of DisgraceLand to the other, the backyard to dig into the dirt. On this bonus episode, we are talking about this week's full-episode subject on Marilyn Manson. We are previewing the coming Bjork episode, talking about the worst bands of the 90s, and we go through your voicemails, texts, DMs, emails, and as always, a whole lot of rosary, right Discos? Let's get into it.

• 3:27Jake Brennan?

  So I'm reading this great book called Maidens by Alex Michalidis. I think that's how you pronounce his name. Apologies, Alex, if I got that wrong. It's one of those modern-day Agatha Christie-type whodunit books that we've talked about here. Books I love, books I know a bunch of you love as well. And last night I came across this passage that I thought was super relevant to the music in true crime storytelling that we're doing here. It's short. I'm gonna read it to you now. It says, "A long time ago, psychopathy used to be called simply evil. People who were evil, who took delight in hunting or killing others, were written about ever since Medea took an axe to her children, and probably long before that.

• 4:09Jake Brennan?

  The word psychopath was coined by a German psychiatrist in 1888, the same year Jack the Ripper terrorized London, from the German word psychopastiche, literally meaning 'suffering soul.'" For Mariana, that's the character in the book, for Mariana, this was the clue, the suffering, the sense that these monsters were also in pain. Thinking about them as victims allowed her to be more rational in her approach and more compassionate. Psychopathy or sadism never appeared from nowhere. It was not a virus infecting someone out of the blue. It had a long prehistory in childhood. And that's the end of the passage.

• 4:52Jake Brennan?

  So basically, what that quote is telling us and what medical history is telling us is that psychopaths are not born. They're baked in childhood from the suffering that these people experience from their own past trauma. Now, in almost every episode that we've covered here, where we dive into a musician's past, particularly the more psychotic musicians, the ones who have allegedly killed, like Jerry Lee Lewis, those who are sexually abusive megalomaniacs like Diddy, the psychotically ambitious like Madonna, the violently drug crazed like James Brown.

• 5:31Jake Brennan?

  In every one of those cases, we find in our research, suffering, as the quote that I just read to you says. Now, as always, I'm not excusing these quote unquote suffering souls. I'm simply trying to understand them. And like I've always said, what made James Brown carry a shotgun across cross-country police chase and violently abuse women while fueled on crazy amounts of drugs? Okay, what made him do that is the same thing that made one of the greatest musicians in the history of the world. The fact that he was raised in a whorehouse and disciplined as a young boy by being held upside down in a burlap bag and beaten with a wooden stick.

• 6:16Jake Brennan?

  Without that trauma, you don't get the drive to become the hardest working man in show business. And you don't get that artistry and you don't get the psychotic behavior either.

• 6:29Jake Brennan?

  Same goes for the rest of the musicians that I mentioned. Now, for those of you who are new to Disgrace and this week, again, we're not trying to excuse the behavior of these musicians. We're just trying to understand it. So to this week's episode subject Marilyn Manson, that quote that I read you says that before they had the word psychopath, they just called those who willingly hurt others evil. The introduction of the word introduced the concept of suffering and thus the possibility, I guess, of further understanding. We all understand evil. It's black and white. Psychopathy is a little more gray, a little more complicated. Now, do I think Diddy is

• 7:09Jake Brennan?

  a psychopath? Yes. Do I let Diddy off the hook for what he's done? No. Do I understand why he did it? Yeah, I kind of do. As you can tell from the two full Sean Combs episodes that we've released, particularly part two, that delves into his history and the murder of his father by a notorious Harlem gangster, that trauma, that suffering, it not only allows us to understand what these artists have done, but it also, in some cases, not in all, but in some cases, drives the artists to contrition, to empathy. But what about this week's subject Marilyn Manson? Was his behavior that we detailed in this episode

• 7:51Jake Brennan?

  psychotic? Yes. Was there past suffering in his life? Trauma? Debatable. Now, I was struck when reading Marilyn Manson's autobiography by the fact that there's nearly zero examples of the artist's humanity. Quite the opposite. Inhumanity is one of the goals of the artist. In the one time that the artist, that Marilyn Manson bends toward humanity, it's for completely selfish reasons, if we're to believe him, because he believes that being humane will help him with his art. So what does that make Marilyn Manson? Well, it makes

• 8:33Jake Brennan?

  him unique amongst all the subjects that we've covered. But does his lack of humanity, does his striving for inhumanity not only make him a psychopath, but instead make him evil? Truly evil?

• 8:50Jake Brennan?

  I don't know the answer to that, but I hope the answer is no. I'm always rooting for the comeback, just like Don Covey and a certain Jewish carpenter. I'm always rooting for mercy. Part of what I think is going on here with Marilyn Manson is I think, you know, in his autobiography, I think he's a bit of an unreliable narrator. He's trying, I was about to say desperately, but not desperately. He's, he's trying in the autobiography to paint a picture of a different type of artist. And he does a damn good job in doing that. Now, what we think of that artist is a completely different story. There's been a ton of hate and anger directed at Marilyn Manson in our social posts this week, and I get it. I get the anger. But one poster commented that Marilyn

• 9:31Jake Brennan?

  Manson, AKA Brian Warner, has cleaned himself up. In my research, I've come across next to no examples of empathy for Marilyn Manson. I hope it exists. I hope it's there. If anyone's a fan, hit me up. Let me know. Let me know what I don't know. Okay. If Brian Warner has had some sort of redemption beyond getting just back on the road and filling stadiums and getting his career going again, if he's changed in any demonstrably humane ways, I want to know. So hit me up 617-906-6638 on voicemail and text, or at DisgraceLandPod on the socials. We'll keep the Marilyn Manson conversation at a low hum. We'll keep that going, try and figure this out, try and get more into it.

• 10:16Jake Brennan?

  Because, you know, love him or hate him, you just can't get around the fact that he's a fascinating individual. All right. Speaking of fascinating individuals like yourselves, this week, for those of you who are new here, let me break it down for you. Okay. Let me break it down for you what we do here. All right. On Tuesdays, we release a new full scripted sound design episode of Disgraceland, our bread and butter, so to speak, like we just did this past Tuesday with Marilyn Manson. On Thursdays, we release these after-party bonus episodes where we discuss the full episode, and where I take your calls and texts relative to the full episodes, question of the week, which gets asked the week prior and at the end of the full episodes. On Fridays, we dip into our-

• 10:59Jake Brennan?

  Archive of over 235 full episodes and relaunch a previously released episode. Okay. It's like when that TV show that you used to watch back in the day would air a rerun. Okay. We call these rewind episodes and we do this because we have so many damn episodes. All right. It helps expose new listeners to some of our past hits. Occasionally those rewind episodes that we release on Fridays are part of a multi-episode story. And in that case, we release both parts, one and two over the weekend, which is what we are doing this Friday and this Saturday with our rewind episodes on the Rolling Stones at Altamont and the Rolling Stones in exile. These are two of my favorite episodes on one of my favorite bands of all time, and I cannot wait for you guys to hear them if you have

• 11:41Jake Brennan?

  not already. If you have, I can't wait for you to re-listen and get your deeper insight when we talk again next week. Now, next week on Tuesday is our new episode, our next new episode on Bjork and the truly psychotic man, not a musician, truly psychotic man who tried to murder her. Okay. This is our swing at one of those old school 90s obsession suspense thrillers. All right. That's what we tried to do in this episode. So when you're listening to that episode, guys, be thinking about, is the Bjork story the wildest story of obsession and deranged fandom in music history? It's pretty fucking deranged, as you shall hear.

• 12:25Jake Brennan?

  But if it's not the most deranged, or if it is, either way, I want to hear your thoughts on it. 617-966-3888. Voicemail and text with your answers and you might hear yourself on next week's after-party. All right. I'm going to take a quick break, going to drink some tea, going to give my voice a rest. I'll be back in a flash though, with your calls, texts and DMs on last week's question of the week of the most subversive artists of the 1990s. Back right after this.

• 13:01Speaker 05

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 13:16Speaker 06

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 13:27Speaker 05

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 13:32Speaker 07

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 13:38Speaker 05

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

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• 14:39Jake Brennan?

  All right, guys, we are back. And as I say every week, you know where I'm at. I'm in the phone booth. It's the one across the hall. I am hanging on the telephone, 617-906-6638. You want to get your voicemails into me, you want to get your texts into me, 617-906-6638. Real quick, before we get into the calls and the texts and the emails and all that, please, Apple Podcast listeners, those of you who are new, especially new Apple Podcast listeners, make sure you have auto Downloads turned on for this show for disgracing that way you don't miss an episode ever. All right, last week, we released our episode on the Go-Go's and we followed that up on Friday with a rewind episode on Madonna.

• 15:21Jake Brennan?

  The Go-Go's episode prompted this conversation of the greatest girl groups of all time and we went through some, some lists that we found online and strangely enough, despite having, despite being the only group of female musicians in the history of the world who had a number one album, the Go-Go's were left off a lot of those lists. And you guys clearly were, want to talk about that and you want to talk about some of the greatest girl groups of all time in addition to the Go-Go's. And I want to give you guys a little more space here on this subject. So let's check out this voicemail from Katie in the 414.

• 15:56Speaker 09

  Hey Jake, this is Katie from the 414. Yeah, I know it's a 920 number, but I'm a transplant. Anyway, I'm late to the game for the best all female rock bands of all time, but after listening to the after-party, I am so disappointed that Sandy was not even part of the conversation. They were self-taught musicians and wrote all their own music. They were the first all-female band to put out a full-length album on a major label, which was none other than the Beatles' label, Apple Records. And they were the first all-female band to achieve a top 40 hit in 1971. They were one of David Bowie's favorite bands. And he said about them, quote, "They were one of the finest fucking rock bands of their time. They were extraordinary. They wrote everything, they played like motherfuckers, they were just colossal and wonderful

• 16:40Speaker 09

  and nobody ever mentions them. They're just as important as anybody else who's ever been and ever. It just wasn't their time." All that evidence and a Bowie endorsement. They absolutely deserve a top spot on that greatest of all time list. You've definitely got to check them out. Later.

• 16:56Jake Brennan?

  Katie. I. I. This is why I love discos. This is why I love the disgraced analysts series. I have never, ever even heard of Fanny. I've never heard of Fanny. Unbelievable. I just looked them up while I was listening to your call and I can't wait to listen to them. Thank you so much. Apple records. So you know, it's going to be real. David Bowie endorsement and for all the reasons you just mentioned. Katie, thank you so much. Everyone else, uh, get into Fanny, give him a spin, get back to us, get back to Katie. Let us know what you think. 617-906-6638 voicemail and text. 812 calls in with the following voicemail.

• 17:35Speaker 10

  Hey Jake, I'm sorry, trying this one more time because I, um, am awkward on the phone. Um, I just wanted to point out the Slits as an all group, um, band that contributed a lot to punk rock, uh, specifically. And then the other person I wanted to point out, not an all girl group, but as a front woman, um, that hasn't been mentioned is Paulie Sirene from the X-Ray Specs. I, I feel like they deserve a mention, um, regardless of how awkward I am. And, um, yeah, that's it. Thank you so much.

• 18:16Jake Brennan?

  812, uh, not awkward at all. Your voicemails are always welcome here. Thank you. And I have to admit, uh, I think we did, I think someone did mention the Slits briefly. Maybe it was on social, maybe it wasn't in the after party. Um, but I have to admit, I, I've of course heard of the Slits. I'm sure I have heard the Slits, but I've never, I've never actively sat down and listened to a Slits album. So call back or text back 617-906-6638 and tell me where to start. Give me one, one song or preferably one record, one album for me to start with for the Slits. Appreciate the rec and the call 812. Thank you very much. All right. Moving on to where are we going here? Let's go to Toronto, the 416.

• 18:59Speaker 11

  Jake, it is Diana calling from Toronto. I just listened to the Marilyn Manson episode. It was incredible. I saw them open for Nine Inch Nails in 96 in Toronto. It was incredible. They absolutely blew Nine Inch Nails out of the water. And Nine Inch Nails threw an amazing show that night. Um, yeah, they, they were great. And, uh, you know, it takes a bunch of madness to create art that good. But, uh, my interest in that artist begins and ends with how they treat people consensually. Anyway, you mentioned Al Jorgensen in that episode, Uncle Al. I would love to hear an episode on Al Jorgensen. Um, such an interesting person. And, uh, yeah, thanks so much. Have a great day.

• 19:38Jake Brennan?

  Diana, appreciate you. Great call. Thank you so much. Al Jorgensen from Ministry is definitely on our list. He has been for a long, long, long while. I know there are a zillion stories out there, but I, I'm interested in the sort of depravity and the crime, assuming there's some true crime to Al's past. Uh, but I'm also just interested in that scene, that industrial scene and digging more into it. Uh, there's a, there's a, it's just so rich. And there's going to be a lot of vivid details, I'm sure, that that spring from that research. So pumped to get into Uncle Al, as you say. Thanks for the call, Diana, up there in Toronto. 617-906-6638. You guys want to call, leave me a voicemail, send me a text. 937, text in. Hey, must say, it was genius that the

• 20:21Jake Brennan?

  tune used from the Mellotron for the Marilyn Manson episode was Winnie Cooper Broke My Heart. The Wonder Years tie-in did not go unnoticed. Rock-a-rol-a, Bill from the 937. Bill from the 937, I gotta say, back when I was a, I was a little kid, myself and Sean Hastings up on Birded Hill, we were crushing hard on Winnie Cooper. So obviously, the Paul from Winnie Cooper rumor gave us this in. I've, I've mentioned Winnie Cooper prior in episodes in the show. I don't know where. Back in the past somewhere. If someone hears it, write back in, let me know. 678 writes in, hey Jake, I think you should do a hair metal episode on whoever you dislike the most.

• 21:03Jake Brennan?

  But seriously, I think most influential of their generation is George Michael, Jon, Joni from the 678. Joni, thank you so much. Yikes. Who, uh, who do I dislike the most from the hair metal scene? That's tough. That's tough. It would probably be whoever is sort of the most, uh, whoever has the most lack of humor about themselves. You know what I liked about Poison, Bret Michaels aside, I liked that CC, even though I hated the band, I liked that CC Deville was in on the joke. You know, he kind of had this attitude like, I just, I just want to play guitar, man. I don't know why they got me dressed like a fucking Q-tip. You know, like, he's got the white hair, the white sneakers. I think that dude was genuinely, I could be wrong,

• 21:46Jake Brennan?

  but I think he was genuinely like into New York Dolls, into Johnny Thunders, and that's kind of what he wanted to be, but he ended up in that band. And I love that sense of humor.

• 21:57Jake Brennan?

  Being able to laugh at yourself about the ridiculousness of, of yourself and your music. And, and I mean, that goes for, for the great rock and roll bands. All of them are ridiculous in some way. I mean, it's fucking rock and roll. I mean, after Spinal Tap, you know, the veil was lifted. We, we, we know what's happening. So I don't know. To, uh, to Joni's point here, if there, if there are any hair metal bands that just are not in on the joke, that took themselves very seriously, uh, hit me up, let me know. Maybe, maybe I'll dig into that. I don't know. I don't like being overly negative, but it is an interesting angle. Jules from the 425 up in Seattle texts in, hey, I grew up in LA and your show about the Go-Go's takes me back. I was punked

• 22:39Jake Brennan?

  back then and too young for clubs, but a friend of mine knew the doorman at the Whiskey. Got to see the Police when Sting was still chubby and they were all sunburned as hell. I don't recall, but I think that night at the Mask, my friend got into a fight with the singer from the Dickies. Good times. Love your shows. Love the personal recollection here, Jules. Appreciate you. 617-906-6638. You want to hit me up? Uh, 617 texts in, hey, there's no way we didn't cross paths in the pit. We're at Pizzeria Regina or Newbury Comics are all three back in the day in Harvard Square. I was neither a punk or a metalhead so much as a hard rocker who was friends with both. That's kind of like

• 23:22Jake Brennan?

  what I was, really. I mean, yeah, really. It goes on to say, the most memorable night was this metalhead with crazy long red hair named Kyle, who was first to get his hands on 1987's Garage Days re-revisited before anyone else. And he unwrapped the cassette and threw it in this boombox and we all listened to it for the first time that night and we were blown away. I can remember that. I wasn't there, but I had my own exact experience with Garage Days. I remember it was coming. We were all waiting for it down at City Hall Music on High Street in Clinton, Mass. I think they had the poster up before the album was even available at the store and we were just salivating. Wanted to hear the first taste

• 24:07Jake Brennan?

  of Metallica without Cliff Burton. Of course, Jason Newsted, what a great, great, great piece of music. Garage Days 87. Damn, that was a long time ago. 617-906-6638. You guys want to hit me up on voicemail or text on anything? That's how you do it. Going to want to hear next week, your answers to the question of the week regarding Bjork and our Bjork episode, which is coming up. And that's going to be, of course, is the Bjork story the emblematic story of the most obsessed fan in music history? Taylor Swift fans, if you're listening, you might have something to say about this, but check out that Bjork episode. Get at me.

• 24:46Jake Brennan?

  Let me know. 617-906-6638 on the voicemail and the text machine. You can also DM me at @disgracelandpod. I'm active on Instagram, active on X, active on Facebook as well. If that is your chosen form of communication, I am here for it. Justin G on Facebook writes and hey, poor old fatty, always getting the bum rap.

• 25:10Jake Brennan?

  Justin's talking about our Hollywood Land episode today on Fatty Airbuck. I'll talk about that a little bit later in the episode. Christopher LaBella writes in, "Hey Jake, where's Van Halen? Part three. I can't find it. Go-Go's were great. Took me right back to 1982, 84, when I was eight to 10 years old, watching them on MTV." Christopher, there is no part three on Van Halen. I think we said all there needs to be said about Van Halen, but Christopher, if you disagree, write us back and let us know. Guys, at Disgrace and Pod on Facebook, on Instagram, if you want to hit me up, let me know anything that's on your mind. I'm around. I'm here for you. I'm here for you every single week. You know that. I don't let you down, unlike some certain sports teams I can name, but I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that in the, in the sports, in the 30 second

• 25:54Jake Brennan?

  sports rant. Matt, give me a little ticking clock. I know you can do it. Give it to me. Give it to me. Give it to me. I'm just going to say right now, the fucking Red Sox, the fuck with the Red Sox. Okay. This has been building. You heard it last week. It's, it's at a point where I'm, I'm almost fully bailed on the season. And again, it's the beginning of June. Okay. I bought my son a Mets hat the other day. I know Juan Soto's in a slump. I don't care. I need something to root for in Major League Baseball, and these Red Sox are beyond a disappointment. Okay. That's it. That's it. That's the sports rant. I'm going to keep it light this week. I don't want to be cynical. I don't want to be negative, but they are forcing me. They are backing me into a fucking quarter. I'll be back after this with the Hollywood Land Minute.

• 26:46Speaker 05

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At The Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 27:01Speaker 06

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 27:12Speaker 05

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you, you're not alone.

• 27:17Speaker 07

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 27:23Speaker 05

  So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 27:43Speaker 04

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• 28:21Jake Brennan?

  All right, we are back. Thank you very much for sticking around with us. Hey, quick shout out to Disco Laney. Laney's a longtime listener of DisgraceLand. She's in our Patreon chat and she let us know, she did a proud mom moment, let us know that her son Brandon, congrats Brandon, Brandon is starring in their town's production of The Million Dollar Quartet and Brandon is playing Johnny Cash. And I just think that is, Brandon's gonna be a real cool motherfucker to play Johnny Cash. So congratulations, Brandon. As Johnny Cash said to Bob Dylan before he took the stage, "I say to you, go track some mud on the carpet." All right. I mentioned Patreon. Patreon is where All Access members come to chop it up with me, get a little more conversation going. In addition to that conversation,

• 29:06Jake Brennan?

  All Access DisgraceLand, All Access members also get ad-free listening of DisgraceLand and, and Hollywoodland. All right. We just added that feature this week. Plus, All Access members get one extra exclusive episode of DisgraceLand per month. Our last one was on David Crosby. Not sure who the one is on this month. I should know. I should be able to tell you that. Matt, maybe chime in here?

• 29:33Speaker 12

  Yeah, the next episode is on Shannon Hoon, the lead singer for 90's band Blind Melon.

• 29:41Jake Brennan?

  Okay, more on Hollywoodland. Listen, exciting news, all right? First of all, for those of you who are like, what the fuck is Hollywoodland? Who is this guy? Sorry, he's talking about DisgraceLand, I was talking about Hollywoodland. For those of you who are new here, Hollywoodland is the other podcast that I host, which is basically just like DisgraceLand, but instead of music and true crime, it's Hollywood actors, actresses, directors, et cetera, and their true crime stories. Artists like Jack Nicholson, David Lynch, John Waters, Drew Barrymore, Marilyn Monroe, and a ton more. This week, we're talking about Roscoe Fatty Arbuckle and the crime of the century. And guys, here's the news. We just launched our Rap Party bonus episodes in the Hollywoodland feed,

• 30:24Jake Brennan?

  which is me and my guy Zeth Lundie, who has worked for and with Double Elvis for years as a showrunner and a writer, and who wrote most of the Hollywoodland episodes. Rap Party is Zeth hosting, and I'm in there as his co-host. And we're cutting up that week's subject. We're getting into our recommendations over there, what we're watching, what we're reading, what we're listening to, all inspired by that week's Hollywoodland episode, okay? We're also, also taking your calls and voicemails over in the Rap Party as well. So now you have 100% more chance of hearing yourself in one of our podcast Rap Party episodes. They're coming out every week, every Wednesday. There's one available right now. Go check it out after this. The Rap Party episodes come out on Wednesdays after our full Hollywoodland episodes on Monday.

• 31:08Jake Brennan?

  If you are not subscribed or following, please search Hollywoodland wherever you get your podcasts. Like, subscribe, and follow. Here's a clip from our most recent Rap Party episode.

• 31:20Speaker 13

  This part of the Rap Party is all about recommendations, music and movie recommendations, but they are recommendations inspired by the actor, actress, or director, whoever we're covering this week in our full episode of Hollywoodland. So- Fatty Arbuckle being this week's subject and looking ahead to next week's subject, John Belushi. We've got big dudes on the brain. So to that end, Jake, I need some big dude music recs. What do you got?

• 31:45Jake Brennan?

  John Belushi made me think about Blues Brothers, made me think about John Lee Hooker, made me think about the song I'm obsessed with by John Lee Hooker called Grinder Man.

• 31:54Speaker 13

  Oh, great song.

• 31:55Jake Brennan?

  Which, yes, which to me, it's the sound of violence. And you wouldn't know so from the lyrics. The lyrics are about a baseball player, but it's a double entendre for sex. And it just sounds so fucking mean. It was recorded for the Stax label, which doesn't make a lot of sense for John Lee Hooker, but somehow it all works.

• 32:14Speaker 13

  When it comes to movies, I was thinking about big dudes in movies, big funny dudes in movies, which is obviously a long list. John Goodman, who's been in a billion movies, I know, but my John Goodman recommendation is this movie called Barton Fink from 1991, directed by Joel and Ethan Cohen, two of the greatest to ever do it. Barton Fink is really, it's unlike any other movie. It's strange, it's horrifying, it's funny. And if you're a creative person, if you write, or you paint, or you make music, or whatever, it will hit you hard. Because it's about this playwright named Barton Fink, played by John Chichurro, who moves from New York to Los Angeles in 1941, in order to write scripts for Hollywood. So he's basically taking, he's going from this brainy arty playwright to being a paid screenwriter in Hollywood to write schlock, right?

• 33:00Speaker 13

  And then, there's this sweaty, intense as fuck performance by John Goodman, a guy who isn't what he says he is. And all I gotta say is that once you see this, there's this one scene with him running down this hallway of a hotel, and it's, the whole thing is on fire, and he's screaming, you will never be able to look at John Goodman the same way twice.

• 33:20Jake Brennan?

  All right, I've never seen that. I've never seen Barton Fink. I need to check this out. I'm gonna take your recommendation.

• 33:27Jake Brennan?

  All right, guys. Like I said, make sure you are subscribed to Hollywoodland on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Next week, we've got an episode on the one and only John Belushi. So make sure, like I said, you're subscribed, following, however they term it, in whatever podcast app you guys use. All right, [email protected]. You want to send me an email on any subject. All right, this email comes from a fellow by the name of Ed Trask. Subject: The Go-Go's. Message: The presentation of the Go-Go's coming out of a West Coast punk rock scene layered in historic drudge and creative prowess, writing their own songs, and landing into pop music. History was well done, but I love the idea that there are plenty

• 34:08Jake Brennan?

  of all-girl punk rock bands that wrote their own songs, and in their eyes succeeded in changing and influencing punk and rock. Bands that I toured with or watched and loved, examples being L7, Bikini Kill, Luna Chick, Seven Year Bitch, Babes in Toyland, Pussy Riot, Bratmobile, Shone and Knife, to name a few. These bands obviously never had the pop cultural impact and success of the Go-Go's, but had plenty of stories of grit, will, and talent which helped them fight to become successful touring bands. The question being, what actually is success? Especially after the Nirvana major-label-feeding frenzy. Were you a successful band because you had two records on labels like Discord or Touch and Go? Or were you a success when you signed

• 34:51Jake Brennan?

  a major-label deal? Cheers. Ed Trask 804. Ed, the answer to your question is, the latter, sorry, the former. You were a success. Yeah, if you were on Discord Records or Touch and Go, and you had a couple of records out, and you were out there touring and playing to people in different cities who were coming to see you and paying tickets to see you beyond your immediate region of local fans, I say that's a success. I say, I say success is, can you... Can you fill a club, a reasonable sized club in a bunch of different cities outside of your own and sustain yourself as a musician? That to me is a success. Now, of course, that's going to change for the musician as they get older and as they try to do different things and they have different goals, all that stuff, obviously.

• 35:34Jake Brennan?

  I don't think you're saying that I was saying that the Go-Go's were a success because they were a major label band and had a number one record. And that's not what I was saying. They were, of course, a success. They were the biggest success with that number one album. That was my point. Number one success of all girl groups with that number one album. The bands you mentioned, a bunch of them, I actually had the opportunity to see and play with back in the 90s and they were phenomenal. I saw L7, played with L7, actually, Bikini Kill, played with the Luna Chicks a couple of times. I think I played with Seven Year Bitch, saw Babes in Toyland, never saw Pussy Riot or Bratmobile, saw Shonen Knife.

• 36:18Jake Brennan?

  Just incredible bands, incredible time in history for females in music, doing it in the punk world, in the underground. It was, I don't know, I don't know if there'll be another time like it. Hard for me to put my finger on what made it so special here on the spot, but it's something that I want to delve into. You've compelled me, Ed Trask, in the 804. I appreciate the email. Guys, if you haven't heard those bands, Luna Chicks, Shonen Knife, Seven Year Bitch, Babes in Toyland, et cetera, go check them out. All right, guys, you want to support the show? Head over to Apple Podcasts, head over to Spotify, leave a review for the show. All right, say something positive. If you're new here and you like what you hear, leave a review, share the show with a friend.

• 37:00Jake Brennan?

  Every week I review here from Apple, Spotify, from a listener, listener reviews, and if you hear your review here on the podcast, hit me up, email, text, DM, whatever.

• 37:13Jake Brennan?

  And I'll get you a little something special in the mail because I appreciate you. And you know, it's a necessity, the reviews, the reviews help the show grow. They help discovery, they help other people find it, they, they help the algorithm force it out. Ed Mesa 517 writes, "The only reason I listen to podcasts, five stars. What can I say? I've been listening to the Disgraceland Pod since its beginning. I've turned many friends and anyone that'll listen on to this podcast. The wide variety of artists from many different genres is what makes this podcast a great listen at any time. Rock-a-rola." Ed, thank you so much, my friend. I appreciate you. Chastity Dinet over on Spotify writes, "Hey, this is in relation to the Marilyn Manson episode. Great episode.

• 37:56Jake Brennan?

  Saw Sober Manson perform at Welcome to Rockville last month, and it was truly one of the best performances of the entire festival." So there you go. Manson is sober. Thanks for the reviews. Get in touch. I'll get you guys something in the mail. This episode is nearing its end, everybody, but actually it's not nearing its end for everybody. For those of you who are All-Access members, you're going to get a little bit more of the bonus episode here. Going to be talking about, we were talking about the most subversive bands from the 90s. I'm going to talk about some of the worst bands from the 90s. And, and again, I don't like to be negative, but I'm, I'm looking at some past rock journalism. And I'm going to, I'm going to bring you a list and we're going to, we're going to get

• 38:39Jake Brennan?

  into it here in the exclusive section of this after party. Worst bands from the 90s. You guys want to become a member, you want to get in on this conversation, want to get in on the conversation with me on the Patreon chat, you want that ad-free listening experience, you want an extra episode per month, just go to disgracelandpod.com/membership. Five bucks a month, it's all costs. You can become a member, you can support the show. We appreciate it and you're going to get a ton more content.

• 39:30Jake Brennan?

  All right, we are back. And if you weren't part of that conversation we just had in the bonus after-party section here of this episode, you missed out on some good convo about the worst bands of the 90s. And I was throwing a heater there. I was, I had a lather worked up. I was into it real quick here. Let's just, let's just dig into a mention, I should say, a couple of the artists from our archive who were discussed in this episode, who we have episodes on, who you guys can go check out. And if you're interested in any of these subjects, just check the show notes. Matt Bowden will have the show and episode information there for you. So you can easily find them in our archive. We talked about Sean Diddy Combs, got two episodes on Sean Combs, and we will have more in the future. We talked about James Brown. And again, the archive is just stuffed with so

• 40:14Jake Brennan?

  many artists, Willie Nelson, Cardi B, The Beatles. We've got nine episodes on The Beatles, Nipsey Hussle, The Grateful Dead. It's really truly endless. So just dive in, check stuff out. Get at me if you have any questions, 617-906-6638. Voicemail and text at disgracelandpod on the socials. And I'll get back to you with my answers on those episodes. All right, let's recap, shall we? Number one, my other podcast, Hollywood Land is alive and kicking over in the Hollywood Land feed. So make sure you are subscribed and following Hollywood Land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And check out our recent episode on Fatty Arbuckle right now in your Disgrace Land feed, our episode on Marilyn Manson, number three, coming tomorrow and Saturday. Our rewind episodes on The Stones

• 40:57Jake Brennan?

  at Altamont, The Stones in Exile, next Tuesday, our brand new episode on Bjork, more 90s madness. Bjork, Bjork, Bjork. Number four, merch winners, get in touch, you know who you are. Number five, remember, no one cares about preserving the true spirit of rock and roll more than you do. And well, that is a disgrace. All right. In honor of this week's subject, Marilyn Manson, this is me reading you the Billboard charts of number one songs for the day Manson's album Antichrist Superstar was released and forever redefine what subversion means for pop music. That was on October 8, 1996. Here you go.

• 41:35Jake Brennan?

  Number one, Macarena. Los Del Rio. Last week, one. Peak position, one. Weeks on Chir, forty-three. Number two, I Love You Always, Forever. Donna Lewis. Last week, two. Peak position, two. Weeks on Chir, seventeen. Number three, It's All Coming Back To Me Now. Celine Dion. Last week, three. Peak position, three. Weeks on Chir, nice. Number four, Twisted. Keith Sweat. Last week, four. Peak position, two. Weeks on Chir, seventeen. Number five, Where Do You Go? No Mercy. Last week, six.

• 42:20Jake Brennan?

  Peak position, seven.

• 42:29Speaker 14

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