Pod Insights The Tucker Carlson Show Tucker Puts Piers Morgan’s Views on Free Speech to the Ultimate Test About this episode In the U. K., you can go to jail for using the F word. No, not that F word. Piers Morgan responds.
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Transcript 20,248 words · 6 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Tucker Carlson? We have the tech to get food delivered in 15 minutes, but we all have horror stories about buying tickets. The Game Time app gives fans the advantage. Get amazing tickets in just a few taps. Fees are included, so what you see is what you pay. And the Game Time guarantee means authentic tickets at the best price every time. Take the guesswork out of buying tickets to concerts, sports, comedy, and more with Game Time. Download the Game Time app and create an account for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Whatever happened to Britain? Or the UK, or England, or whatever they're calling it. We can't even agree on what it's called, but England. The England that if you're over 50, you grew up learning about. The England that controlled the world.
0:44 Tucker Carlson? The England that ran the largest empire in human history. At the end of World War I, Britain, which is an island in a pretty unhospitable climate, controlled literally a quarter of the Earth's surface. And not controlled in the way the United States controls the rest of the world with an implied threat or with economic ties to trade, but actually controlled with administrators and people sitting at desks with eye shades, counting things, like actually controlled a quarter of the Earth's surface.
1:21 Tucker Carlson? Way more than Rome, way more than the Mongols, way more than anybody ever, or maybe in the future, ever. Britain was the most powerful country in the history of the world. And then 25 years later, it was this kind of sad, soggy welfare state, which is, to some extent, what it still is, except maybe even a little bit worse. What happened? Well, there are a couple of levels on what to think about this. First is just geopolitical. And I guess they spent a lot of money in these wars and the ruling, you know, half the class have eaten, 1910 was killed in the trenches or whatever. You can think of a lot of different ways to explain what happened to Britain. The fact remains, however, they won the two biggest wars in human history.
2:04 Tucker Carlson? They won, and yet they're still greatly diminished and to some extent humiliated. It's like, what is that? So again, the first can be described, the first explanation can be described.
2:18 Tucker Carlson? In economic terms, well, the United States took over. The British Empire just moved west to its child, the US. They just transferred the power and a lot of the gold to this new country, which had its systems and some of its customs. Okay, but there's something kind of deeper, actually. If that were the whole story, then Britain would still be recognizably Britain. The English people would still be recognizably English. They would just be not in charge anymore. They would have less money and less power. But the country would be, by any conventional measurement, thriving, just not running the Bahamas and Hong Kong, Pakistan.
3:03 Tucker Carlson? But that's not what's happened, actually. After winning the two biggest wars in human history, Britain has shrunken, not just physically, but in some way that's hard to describe. Its culture has changed, some might say has been destroyed, and it's become something completely different. And what is that? And by the way, why does it matter what it is? Well, it matters because what's happened to Britain, to England, is also happening to many countries in the West. Certainly, its heirs, the Anglosphere, and that specifically would be Australia, New Zealand, the United States, Canada, Ireland. It's happening to those countries,
3:48 Tucker Carlson? but it's also happening to the rest of Western Europe all at the same time. A bunch of different, profound, never seen before phenomenon are happening to all of those countries. And again, including ours here in the United States. So it's worth understanding what has happened to Britain. So maybe the best image that describes it is the one that we're about to show you. And in case there's no context in the tape, what you're watching is a woman being arrested outside of an abortion clinic. And keep in mind, as you watch this, she's not being arrested for throwing a firebomb, a petrol bomb, through the window of this abortion clinic in the UK, or even for obstructing access to this abortion clinic.
4:32 Tucker Carlson? No, she's being arrested and taken to jail for praying outside the abortion clinic. Watch this.
4:40 Speaker 01 Before I ask you any questions about what's going on today, I have to caution you, which is just your rights, which is you do not have to say anything. It may harm your defence if you do not mention or question something that you later are in court and anything you do say may give you offence. What are you here for today?
4:54 Speaker 02 Physically, I'm just standing here.
4:56 Speaker 01 Okay, why here of all places? I know you don't live nearby.
5:00 Speaker 02 This is an abortion ceremony.
5:02 Speaker 01 Okay, that's why you're standing? Are you standing to be a part of the protest?
5:06 Speaker 02 No, I'm not protesting.
5:08 Speaker 01 Are you praying?
5:09 Speaker 02 I might be praying in my head.
5:12 Speaker 01 So I'll ask you once more, will you voluntarily come with us now to the police station for me to ask you some questions about today and other days where there are allegations that you've broken public spaces protection?
5:24 Speaker 02 If I've got a choice, then no.
5:26 Speaker 01 Okay, well then you're under arrest, it's a suspicion of failing to comply with the public spaces protection order.
5:32 Tucker Carlson? So what is that? It's hard to argue that if your government is arresting people for praying, that you're watching a political phenomenon. Because of course praying is not simply a nonviolent act, it's not even a physical act, it can't possibly, at least in secular terms, affect outcomes or harm anyone. Praying for people can never be a crime, but it is a crime in Great Britain, literally a crime. And the woman you saw is not the only person who's been arrested for doing it. So clearly we're watching a spiritual phenomenon here. I mean, there's sort of no arguing it, once you see things like that. But what is that spiritual phenomenon?
6:16 Tucker Carlson? And what are its effects on the people of this country? And before we go farther, we should just say that if you visit the UK, as it's now called, or London, its capital and completely dominant city, the first thing you'll notice is it's actually pretty nice. London is, the nice parts of London are as nice, or maybe even nicer than any city in the United States, certainly nicer than any city in Canada or Australia, much nicer actually. It's a great city, filled with lots of happy people. But broadly speaking, this country has changed really, really dramatically, and it's changed in ways that are recognizable. And here's what you recognize. The people of Great Britain are going through a series of crises, and they're all internal.
7:00 Tucker Carlson? Drug use, alcohol use, their appearance has changed, people are no longer as well-kept, the streets, the landscape is not tidy anymore. It's got lots of litter and graffiti in some places. And to technocrats, these are not meaningful measures of anything. Who cares if you've got graffiti? Does that affect GDP? Oh, well, maybe, maybe not. But it's definitely a reflection of how people feel about themselves. People with self-respect do not tolerate public displays of disorder, or filth, or graffiti, or litter, because they care about themselves and their family, and they understand intuitively,
7:42 Tucker Carlson? as every human being does, that once you allow chaos and filth in your immediate environment, you are diminished. So you just don't allow that, and no healthy society does. But all through the West, these are not just features, they're defining features. All Western cities are filled with litter and graffiti. And people who look like they didn't bother to get dressed this morning but are instead wearing their pajamas in Walmart. It's not just in your town, it's everywhere in what we refer to as the West. The point that underlies all of this is a really obvious one that too few people say. This is the behavior of a defeated people. This is what it looks like when you lose.
8:26 Tucker Carlson? This is what it looks like when you're on your way out to be replaced by somebody else. This is what it looks like to be an American Indian. Now, one thing nobody in the United States ever says about the American Indians, except in the kind of pro forma, white guilt way, is these weren't just impressive people, and no, they didn't write the Constitution before we did. These were some of the most impressive people, most self-reliant, most dignified breed, any account of early American settlers, people who were pushing west, who came into contact with Indians, and yes, were often scalped and forced to eat their own genitals and roasted over open fires. I mean, these were cruel people. But even the people who were in danger of being murdered by them respected them because
9:08 Tucker Carlson? the indigenous Americans had a great deal of self-respect. They had what we call dignity. And now, hundreds of years later, the opposite is true. The poorest people in the United States are American Indians. Why? Because the federal government hasn't given them enough? The federal government is completely in charge of the indigenous economy in the United States and has been for over 100 years. And it hasn't worked. American Indians are still the poorest. Why? Because the Iroquois and the Navajo weren't impressive? No, they were the most impressive. Again, read the account of anyone who dealt with them. Even people who are dodging their arrows thought they were amazing people because they were.
9:52 Tucker Carlson? And now, they are, by many measures, the saddest people in the United States. Why is that? Some inherent genetic predisposition to patheticness? They couldn't deal with modernity? Well, they probably could. They were defeated.
10:08 Tucker Carlson? They were defeated. And in some deep, the deepest way, they wound up destroying themselves. And it's not unique to them, that's the point. And just to be completely clear, all of this is observed with a great deal of sympathy, not scorn. No one's mocking the American Indians. Everyone should feel bad about it, for real. Again, not in a silly white girl guilty way, but in a real way. These are amazing people, greatly diminished.
10:35 Tucker Carlson? And the reason it's worth remembering is the same thing is happening to the West. So the beauty of Thanksgiving is that it celebrates real food. I mean, at the core of the holiday is actual food, not synthetic garbage, the kind that is almost irresistible. So wouldn't it be nice if the country embraced, if all of us embraced, actual food during the rest of the year, ditching your standard and truly disgusting American chip brands for chips that aren't terrible for you, that have only three ingredients, that would be Vandy Crisps. That'd be a great place to start. Vandy is about reviving real food, the kind your grandparents ate, and they looked pretty svelte despite the camels they smoked. Why? Because they ate food that wasn't filled with garbage. And in this case, Vandy Crisps,
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13:08 Tucker Carlson? Have you ever heard of the Pelosi Stock Tracker? Well, here's the stock trading app behind it. Most of us don't have access to classified information, yet our politicians seem to. For years, they've been publicly trading stocks with some being oddly timed around certain legislation. Well, this team said, if you can't beat them, join them and build autopilot. It connects directly to your brokerage account like a Robin Hood or Schwab and mimics Nancy Pelosi and other politicians' stock trades automatically. So instead of debating what stocks to buy, you just trade alongside them hands-free. And the key thing here, your money stays in your own account. The app already has 1.3 billion invested so far.
13:49 Tucker Carlson? So if you wanted to check it out, search autopilot in the App Store or go to joinautopilot.com. That's joinautopilot.com. Investing has risks like the loss of principal. And it makes you realize, especially if you travel a lot, that the problem is not necessarily the immigrants. The problem is what mass migration does to the people who already live there.
14:14 Tucker Carlson? They're the victims of it in a way that, again, is hard to measure and sometimes hard to notice, but totally real. So you walk through this city, London, and it's been completely transformed by immigration, completely, and the numbers are really, really clear. 100 years ago was 100% European white. Now it's less than 40%. Okay, that's massive unprecedented demographic change. Got it.
14:38 Tucker Carlson? And the immigrant areas are absolutely poorer than the traditionally white English areas. Absolutely, there's just no question about it. But wealth as measured by the government is not the only measurement. Actually, and this is true in the United States, too, lots of immigrants who have a lot less money than the native population seem a lot more balanced and happy, both because this is a huge upgrade for them, just in terms of like annual income and standard of living, but it's more than that. They're not defeated. They don't hate themselves.
15:13 Tucker Carlson? And if you have traditional nationalist opinions in the United States, I can confirm this personally, you're never going to be stopped on the street and screamed at by some Guatemalan who's like, "You are racist for having your views on immigration." No, they'll probably agree with you, actually. The only people who ever get mad at you are the people who already hate themselves. And that's always famously some private equity wife or somebody who should be happy about how things are going because they're in the portion of the population that's benefiting from it, but they're not happy. They're angry. What is that? That exact same thing is going on in this country. Exact.
15:51 Tucker Carlson? And it's part of a very recognizable syndrome, and it's the most destructive of all. History is just filled with examples of people who get invaded and clubbed to death and have their women stolen from them. They're fine. They're fine. It's the people who feel defeated inside who no longer exist. And that is happening to the West. And it's measurable. What other society hates its own national symbols? It's only happening in the West, only in Great Britain. This is coming to be true in the United States, it's already true in Canada and Australia.
16:36 Tucker Carlson? What other country finds it embarrassing to fly their national flag? What are you saying if that embarrasses you? You don't hate the flag, you hate yourself. And it's obvious because people who have dignity, self-respect, who believe in their own civilization want to continue it. How do you do that? By talking about it a lot? No! By continuing it through reproduction. No one is preventing the West from reproducing. And people have come up with these conspiracy theories like, "Oh, they're doing it, they're doing it." No, we're doing it to ourselves.
17:13 Tucker Carlson? What else is abortion? It's not empowering for women? Of course not. That's absurd. Anyone who believes that is an idiot. Abortion is the way to stop people from reproducing. So is birth control, by the way. Of course. So is convincing people that their dumb job is more important than having kids. It's not. It never will be. Any person who can get clarity for a second will recognize that. It's only about stopping you from having more of you. And is there anything that's a clearer, crystal clear representation of how you feel about yourself than how you feel about having kids? And by the way, it's not just because they're selfish and they want to go on vacation and don't want to pay for children or they're worried about how much it might cost.
17:58 Tucker Carlson? Notice that none of these impoverished immigrants living on SNAP and housing subsidies, they don't seem worried about it at all. Because they know it'll be fine. By the way, most of the time, it will be fine. They're having kids when much more affluent natives are not because they believe in themselves, in their culture, their civilization. They'd like to see it continue. It's the most basic of all human desires. So here in Great Britain, which has about a 40% abortion rate, 40% of all conceived children are killed. Who's doing that? It's not the immigrants. Because they don't hate themselves. They're not defeated. They're ascendant. And so they can see the future.
18:41 Tucker Carlson? They know that they may not live to experience it. But they're still fully human. And they know you plant the tree, not because you can bask in its shade, but because your grandchildren will. This is the most obvious of all human instincts and the most basic. But the native population in Britain is not debating abortion because it's not even a debate here. Everyone agrees it's just an affirmative good, of course, to eliminate your own people. Absolutely. Again, no one's making them do this. They've decided to do it themselves.
19:12 Tucker Carlson? But now their most enthusiastic campaign is for state-sponsored suicide. They've already done this in Canada. It'll come to the United States. What is that? That's an entire people saying, "We should exit the stage. Our time is done. It's over. Let's go. Someone else will take our place." Not the first time that's ever happened. This is what defeated people do. This is what happens when you break people inside. And maybe it'll just reach its terminus. Maybe there's no way to stop it. The great replacement theory. Yeah, a theory. Okay. No, it's, it's the realest thing there is. And it's happening, not because unseen hands are orchestrating
19:57 Tucker Carlson? it, though they are, but because the native peoples of all these countries are participating in it enthusiastically and then enforcing its rules against anyone who questions it. So in Great Britain, if you were to say, "Wait, what the hell is this? This looks nothing like the country I grew up in." Guess who's going to arrest you? Your fellow Britons? The ones whose great-grandparents lived here? The whites?
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22:58 Tucker Carlson? So it's with these questions in mind that we decided to sit down with Piers Morgan. Piers Morgan is somebody we've known for a long time, cable news host. Had a debate with him last year. Ran into him in an elevator in the Middle East and decided to sit down and had a really spirited and interesting conversation with him in which I attacked his country with the fury of someone who secretly loves the country and hates what it's become. And so we're back here in his hometown and decided to have this conversation, and it follows in just a second. But before it begins, just want to be super clear about something. Piers Morgan is clearly wedded, has decided to remain wedded to the neoliberal version of the world where you're not allowed to say certain things and you have to repeat certain pieties, and it's all pretty embarrassing, obviously.
23:43 Tucker Carlson? But in fairness...
23:46 Tucker Carlson? Piers Morgan has single-handedly done more for free speech, which is disappearing in Great Britain, than any other Britain. He has done more for free speech than any other person in this entire country. Just want to say this out loud because it's absolutely true. And he's done it the old-fashioned way by allowing other people onto his platform, onto his show, to debate. People who have no other venue to say what they think. And you may disagree with 50%, agree with the other 50%, it doesn't even matter. That debate, the real debate about issues that really matter, that nobody else in this country is allowed to talk about, are taking place at scale on Piers Morgan's show. So if you watch this and you think, "Piers Morgan has no idea what side is up. Why is he defending the indefensible?"
24:29 Tucker Carlson? Keep in mind that here, and this is an authoritarian country where disagreement is no longer allowed. You go to jail for it. By the thousands of people go to jail for it every year. He alone is keeping it open. So God bless Piers Morgan. With that, here's Piers Morgan. Piers, thanks for doing this. Welcome. Taking time. Welcome to my city. Which I've been so mean to, including in a conversation with you last winter in the Middle East. I'm attacking Great Britain. And I just want to apologize and tell you the truth about how I feel, which is I think that English culture and civilization is the highest level ever achieved by man in history. I really believe that. Everything about it. It's religion, it's language, it's literature. We've, American society's never produced literature.
25:12 Tucker Carlson? I'm embarrassed to say like what the Brits produced. And so it was out of sadness and frustration and a sense of connection to your civilization that I went on the rant about how much I hate it. But it was hate born of frustrated love and concern. I'm just amazed you're here alive. I didn't think you'd get here. Well, they're so passive now. And everyone's like bisexual. What are they gonna do to me? Nothing. But, um... But I just want to add, and I know you love it, you're a product of it. What is it? How would you describe English culture?
25:45 Speaker 01 I would say it's not as bad as many Americans think it is. And it's not as good as many people here, when they launch impassioned defenses of our country and our culture and the way things have gone, would like to pretend it is. It's kind of somewhere in the middle. There's definitely been a significant change in the fabric of the country, in the makeup of the country, in the types of people who've come here, the volume of people who've come here. That's obviously had an effect on what this country is. Now, the debate to be had is whether this has been in totality a force for good or bad. I took your views, your strident views about it when we met in Saudi.
26:27 Speaker 01 And I pushed back quite hard because I lived here half of the year at least, most of that time in London. It's always been a very multicultural city, there's no doubt about that. And I don't walk the streets as Tommy Robinson.
26:40 Tucker Carlson? It has not always been a multicultural. I actually pulled the numbers, it is not, it was very recent. Yeah, maybe right after you were born.
26:46 Speaker 01 In my lifetime, I was born in the mid 60s. But in a way, Tommy Robinson, who has a big following in America, the way he talks about it is not something I recognize. Having said that, as I've always said about him, there are issues that he's raised, which are perfectly legitimate. The biggest one is population. You know, in the 50s, we had a population of just under 50 million people. And a lot of the infrastructure, like the National Health Service, the NHS, once lauded as the greatest health system in the world, now has to do with a population of nearly 70 million. That is a dramatic increase in the volume of people in this country. And the simple truth right now is our public services are creaking at the seams and in some cases, like the NHS, pretty well at breaking point. And that is why there is so much agitation
27:31 Speaker 01 about the simultaneous ongoing issues with immigration. Both illegal, with this ridiculous farce of these small boats popping up on the south coast from the Channel from France, you know, all the time. When the weather's good, they just stream in hundreds, sometimes thousands a week, illegally into the country. But also legal migration and how we've abjectly mishandled. That since really the turn of the century, you can chart it back to the Tony Blair years when they pretty well opened the the gates to everyone in Eastern Europe. Way too many people came in way too fast. And then after that, there's just been a complete lack of any form of control. And we now have a situation where they've had to try and put the brakes on legal
28:15 Speaker 01 migration coming in because two years ago, we had a net migration in this country of nearly a million people. Now, it's not racist, as some people have tried to brand it, to say that that is alarming. A country like ours, if you don't have an effective border, if you have fifty, sixty thousand people a year coming in as they are illegally on these boats, and then you have a net migration of legal migrants coming in of nearly a million people, the already crumbling infrastructure is going to come under obviously enormously higher pressure. So it's been a series of governments, left and right, I have to say, starting with the Blair government with what they did with Eastern Europe, and then coming forward to successive conservative governments,
28:58 Speaker 01 and now the current Labour government, all of whom, in my opinion, have handled this so badly that inevitably, we now have a lot of people in the country going, what the hell is going on?
29:09 Tucker Carlson? I wonder, though, I mean, everything you said is so clearly true, and it was Tony Blair, really the lowest, probably tied with Boris, but really one of the worst prime ministers, leaders of any country ever. But I wonder, I often hear people say, well, it's about the NHS, National Health Service, it's about the roads, it's about, you know, NHS is like a very new creation, it's a post-war creation, it was never going to work, it's never worked anywhere, the Brits were so kind of pathetically proud of it, but it was the whole thing.
29:37 Speaker 01 It did work.
29:38 Tucker Carlson? But for a time, that was worked for a time.
29:41 Speaker 01 By the way, if you if you walk out of here and you fall over and you break your leg, you'll get treatment quickly.
29:45 Tucker Carlson? That's great, but the health outcomes were never were never better than the United States, it didn't actually didn't actually work. But whatever, you could argue.
29:51 Speaker 01 But the cost of it.
29:52 Tucker Carlson? But what's so sad is that for your whole life, you've been told that what is Britain, what is this project about? It's about the National Health Service? That's kind of aiming a little low. Like, who cares about some bureaucratic structure? What about England? What about the culture? Like, so in my mind, as a P G Woodhouse reader lifelong, self-restraint, duty, courage.
30:19 Tucker Carlson? Patriotism rooted in your religious faith. Our Lord the King, a phrase that was common until recently. All of that seems to be gone. Well, we're still a very majority Christian country, right? Still forty odd percent of the country are Christians, right? That's a fact. So when I hear America- Whatever that means, I mean- Well, it means- You get arrested for praying outside an abortion clinic, that's not a Christian country. Well, okay, but there are, there are nearly fifty percent of the country identify as Christian. The, the more concerning thing for those who have faith is that nearly forty percent now have no religious belief whatsoever, right? Right. Uh, then we have a lot of other religions.
31:01 Tucker Carlson? There's a slight amplification of, for example, the number of Muslims in the country. I agree. There are nearly four million Muslims in, in the country. And that represents about six percent of the population. But forty-three or four percent of the population are still Christian. So I do, I do think again, that the over-amplification of the Islam problem, as people put it, or the, you know, the Muslim problem, has been massively overstated. Well, that's an op, obviously. Yeah. Hate the Muslims. No, I, I, we know where that's coming from, obviously. I don't like it. I, I hate it. In my high street alone, in West London, most of the businesses would have Muslim employees there or people- But also, how is hate the Muslims better than hate the Christians or hate the Jews? It's not, it's all the same.
31:47 Tucker Carlson? It's the same. And I've heard you, I've heard you say, and this is the point I come from. Hatred is hatred is hatred. I totally agree. It doesn't matter who you're hating. The moment you're in the hate game, then I think you're losing whatever argument it is you're trying to have. I totally agree. And, but moving off from hate and getting back to the world I live in, which is fear and distrust and gut-level loathing. Yeah. It's the secular people who are the problem. I've never had an argument with a Muslim, with an actual Muslim. I'm from Bangladesh, I'm a Muslim. We probably agree on a lot. It's the secular self-hating whites that stand up from the table and leave when I'm eating with them here. Just saying, and that's true in my country too. But, but leaving aside, I'm just sort of wonder, and I'm, so I'm not hating on the Muslims at all. They're bad Muslims or bad everybody.
32:31 Tucker Carlson? I just think a country is more than its bureaucratic systems and certainly more than the NHS, which I will never think is impressive, sorry. Or your metric system, which is pathetic. I do think they're wrong about that. Maybe I. But you're not wrong about the state of it now. I mean, I'll give an example. What wouldn't have happened in the 60s and 70s with NHS is what happened to my, both my parents recently. So my mother had a heart attack. Right. And ended up being put on a trolley in an accident and emergency unit, but out on the corridor with 30 other people on trolleys. It was Dickensian. This was like a third world crisis. Oh, yeah. And she got hardly any treatment at all while she was there.
33:13 Tucker Carlson? Now, when she eventually got up, and this is the apex of the NHS for me laid bare. When she eventually got into the heart unit, she got incredible treatment on the NHS, didn't cost her anything. She got fixed up and repaired. Turned out she had a blocked artery and she was home in 48 hours and was great. My father broke six ribs recently. Again, the same story, just kept waiting on trolleys and so on. This is going on all the time. Because it cannot deal with the volume of things. We have the same problem in our country. All the community hospitals are closing, right? And our emergency rooms are unusable because of illegal immigration. I agree with you completely. I'm just saying if you have a country whose main source of pride is it's like healthcare system. I don't think it is. Really? Because in the 50 years I've been coming here, no matter what you say, they're like,
33:58 Tucker Carlson? have you heard about our healthcare system? And it's like, I thought you were about the greater glory of God and like subduing the world for civilization and the English language and our literature and our history. I certainly think we're about, listen, we'd certainly, I checked a few stats on the way here. Yeah. Oh, I bet you did. So did I. Well, this Christmas, give the gift of sleep with Eight Sleep. Everybody needs good rest for most of their days, but few know how to actually get it. Eight Sleep's Pod 5 is the answer to that. Pod 5 is a smart mattress that automatically regulates your body temperature throughout the night. It's proven to deliver up to an extra hour of good, sound sleep every single night. That will change your life if you get it. Plenty of people on our staff use the Pod 5 and they are very psyched.
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35:13 Speaker 04 Now more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman, Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC.com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.
35:43 Tucker Carlson? For example, we bat way above our strength in things like music. Okay, of the eight biggest selling artists in music history, I think I'm right in saying that five of them have come from. I believe that. From the Beatles to Elton John. They're a very musical people, as we often say. We're a very artistic people. We're a very scientific people. Yes. We lead the world, actually. A lot of our universities are in the top 10 in the world. So comparative to our size, which is about a sixth of the size of the United States, maybe between maybe fifth and sixth, but comparative to our size, we continue in many areas to bat above our population strength. The Brits in the Middle East in Dubai specifically are like one of the engines of the economy. They're amazing people.
36:27 Tucker Carlson? I'm actually one of them, half. So I agree, you'll never get me to say the Brits aren't unusual. The qualities you cited, funny enough, that does resonate with me. We have lost a lot of the qualities, I think collectively as a country, which did make this country great. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, but I agree, I agree with you about that because I do think that it's become a bad thing to be patriotic about our country. There's a huge war about waving the Union Jack flag. I never see that war raging in the same way in America, right? There's a lot of, I mean, I'm not giving an example, but it will. That's why that's why I'm doing this interview. Well, yeah, it was very interesting when I did Celebrity Apprentice. It's where I met Donald Trump. And this was back in, you know, two thousand and eight.
37:10 Tucker Carlson? And the the organization that I raised money for, because it was a charitable thing, you have to have a charity, was the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund, and they had a base down in San Antonio. So I went down there. And I remember distinctly coming off the plane and seeing a load of people with flags. And I couldn't work out what was happening. I knew it wasn't for me. American flags. And it turned out that they were there greeting every single serviceman and woman who came off the planes, from whichever war zone they'd come from, because it was a big center there. A lot of military service people living in San Antonio, a lot of them also being treated for serious injuries and so on. And they were just applauding and thanking them for their service as they came off these planes.
37:53 Tucker Carlson? You'd never see that anywhere in the UK. There just doesn't exist as a concept to do that. I was very struck by that. And, you know, I do think America generally is a lot more proudly patriotic than we've become. We've become almost ashamed of being British in a way that I don't like. I think we should be prouder of ourselves and prouder of what we've achieved and prouder of what we could be. But one of the reasons why people don't feel that pride, I think, is because we've had a succession of what I would say are pretty hopeless politicians. Well, maybe you have. Who dragged us into a place where people don't like it. I get it, but maybe you got those politicians because the people hate themselves. I don't think we hate ourselves, we're just. Really? I don't know, I think we've had a shockingly mediocre tier of politicians.
38:36 Tucker Carlson? But I mean, the sort of increase in British masochism, which has famously been part of your sexual retinue for centuries, came me more of. No, that's just true, as you well know. I don't know a Brit. You Americans love a bit of spanking. It's totally true. No, not in the boarding school way, but anyway, whatever the point is. That has increased dramatically since the Second World War. And I have done a couple of segments on the Second World War that have been very kind of shallow and not even really talking about the details or whatever. You're a Holocaust siren. Obviously, I'm not, whatever that means. Hitler killed a ton of Jews. That's terrible. So that's been a diversion, really, that specific conversation.
39:22 Tucker Carlson? From a much more important, broader conversation about what that war did to the West. And I, I think it's totally objectively fair to say the West by specifically by which I mean your country, which is really the seat of the West, has been in decline since the war. So like, what is that? Do you know? I mean, I wouldn't say it's been in decline since the war. There was a lot of recovery after the war. It was a devastating war. I mean, you know, one of the most extraordinary aspects of that war is that Winston Churchill, who many people here to this day believe pretty well, single-handedly rallied the morale of the people here to help us defeat the Nazis, albeit with obviously America's help. That he in the end, at the end of the war, he got thrown out of office because so many people came back
40:06 Tucker Carlson? to a really bad lifestyle, you know, a lot of impoverishment, a lot of homelessness and so on. Well, maybe, were there other reasons? No, no, it was, that was why they took it out. Did Germany attack you first? Is that what happened? What do you mean? Did Germany attack Britain? Is that how you got into a war with Germany? Germany attacked Poland. Oh, but not the UK? No. Oh, okay. Cause that, that They wanted So you voluntarily joined the war? Yes. Okay, great. I'm not defending Hitler, of course, but it's just a fact that you weren't attacked. So when you say that Churchill saved Britain, well, Britain got into the war voluntarily. Well, not voluntarily. Well, what do you mean?
40:48 Tucker Carlson? One of our neighboring European countries was attacked and it was quite, it was quite clear that Adolf Hitler and the Nazis wanted to take over Europe. This was an existential threat to Europe and therefore to the UK. So So you're arguing that he would have come for the UK? Hundred percent. Even though Yeah, I think it's very naive to Your politicians and he and basically not one person who was saying that in 1939, 40. Neville Chamberlain wasn't because he totally misread what was going on. Winston Churchill completely read correctly what was going on and came out of the wilderness to actually come and save us. I think without Think you signed a treaty with Poland that locked you into a course of action that destroyed your country? I'm just saying. You don't honestly think the Nazis would have stopped at Poland? I, I have no idea. I'm just saying Yes, you do, Duncan. Come on.
41:32 Tucker Carlson? I'm, look, I'm just going by what contemporaneous sources said. I have no idea. Hitler invaded Russia, so obviously that's deranged and incredibly destructive. So I don't know is the truth. He was focused on Communism, no one doubts that. This was not a communist country, but I'm just saying Britain voluntarily joined the war. It was a war that you were not involved in and you got in. But my question is, why did it destroy Britain? I don't understand as the victor nation. You didn't destroy Britain. Well, look outside. Look outside. We're in the city of London. Hang on, there's Tower Bridge, it's the Tower of London. Magnificent office blocks here. It changed London. Why do you look at this and see a wrecked country? I don't. Well, I don't see an English country.
42:16 Tucker Carlson? So we're in the city of London now. What do you mean by that? It's not, well, people whose ancestors built stonehenge are not here anymore. So the city of London is 36% white and that's happened in the last, I don't know, 40 years. But England is about 70% white. England, okay. Well, it was 99% in 1945. Okay, so we've evolved. But you're on the way to becoming the minority in the country. So no one wants to say that. I think you can get arrested for saying that here. Well, it's a. That's not white supremacy. This is the indigenous population of the country. It's a statistical fact that I think by 2100, we will be a minority white country. 2063 as of today. Well, I read a bit later. But these are dynamic numbers, so they change.
43:00 Tucker Carlson? But here's my question of you, so what? Well, let me refer to the beginning of our conversation when you said that the people who live in a country define the character of that country. And then you said, yes, all the things for which we were famous and in which we had pride, like our stoicism, our concern for others, our tidiness. The cleanest country in the world now, it's pretty filthy. All those things change when you get new people moving there. You said that, I mean, you're the racist, not me. So I'm just using, I'm using the parameters that you said and I'm saying. I did not say that that was down to. No, you didn't say, you didn't. White people coming to the country. Well, that's who lived here. I don't believe that. No, but that's what you said. No, I said there was creaking pressure on public services. No, no, no.
43:45 Tucker Carlson? But you also maybe foolishly admitted the truth. You could get arrested for this, so I know the stakes are high. But you said that when the people who live in a country change, so does the culture, which is like the most obvious. It's like when it rains, it gets wet. That's not a controversial observation, but it's illegal here because it is true. And my only point is not against, I've already. I said, I like the Bangladeshis better than I like the liberal whites in your country. A lot more. They've never yelled at me. I'm not attacking them. I'm just saying the things that made Britain Britain, England England. Is there still in England? I have no idea. Um, those are going away because there are different people living here. And if you think that those are good things, in the same way that the Swedes or the Chinese, or the people in Burundi and Chad, they like, like their culture. It's their ancestors' culture and now it's gone.
44:29 Tucker Carlson? And like, why can't we say that's bad? Well, because you may think it's bad. It's good. I love living in a very multicultural. But you're rich. I mean, you're rich. And you go to the white parts of London, they're exactly the same as they were when I was a child. I've been coming here for 50 years. They're exactly the same. What neighbor I'm saying is exactly the same. Which do you think is a white part of London? I'm not gonna tell you. Well, that's a little test for you. Which, which area of London do you think is white? The one I'm staying in right now, the one where my relatives live. Where? I'm not gonna say. No, you don't wanna say, because you know that I'll immediately say, come on, there's loads of non-white people living there. There's no. By the way, I'm not against non-whites. There's no exclusively white area of London. There's not. Christmas season is here, and although it's a bit of a cliche, it really is important to keep Christ in Christmas.
45:12 Tucker Carlson? Should we focus on cookies and presents or on the reason we're doing this, which is Jesus? Obviously, the point is Jesus. That's the whole point. That's the only point. And all the decency and good cheer of this holiday comes from Jesus. The Halloweat's Pray 25 Challenge reminds us of that. It features Chris Pratt, Gwen Stefani, our friend Jonathan Rumi, and many others. This 25-day challenge guides you through Advent and helps you keep your focus on the true reason for the season: Jesus. Experience the nativity story where Jesus brought peace and calm to a world in chaos. And that's exactly what we need right now, is peace and calm and still. And Jesus is the only one who brings it. Period. Halloweat's thousands of prayers.
45:56 Tucker Carlson? And meditations and music to help you connect with God all through Christmas and after, including several Christmas original songs and albums. There's a whole world on Hallow. It's like unbelievable. It's changed our family's life. Check it out. You will not regret it. Get three months for free at hallow.com/Chuck or experience greater peace and stillness.
46:15 Speaker 04 Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.
46:44 Tucker Carlson? This Christmas. I am not now, nor have I ever been. And let me just restate, I think I have a lot more in common with the Pakistani cab driver than I do with the average guardian staffer who's white. But you're inferring, you're inferring that the more multicultural- I'm not inferring anything. Well, you were referring the more multicultural that Britain has become in terms of other ethnicities coming to live here, then the worse it's got. And I'm saying those two things- No, I'm saying the less- In my view, are not automatically linked. And I agree- There are lots of white people who behave very badly in this country. Well, I've met them and they yell at me. So yes, I just for the fifth time, I have more in common with the sincerely religious Pakistani cab driver than I do with anyone who works at
47:29 Tucker Carlson? the Times of London. That is just a fact. I don't like those people. I don't want to eat with them and they're white. So all true. All I'm saying is the qualities that made Britain the greatest country in the world were linked directly to the people who live here. And so of course, by definition, multicultural means less of some cultures because there's dilution of the dominant culture and you've conceded that already. There are lots of people who are non-white, who've been born and raised in this country, who've contributed brilliantly- I would never deny that. -to the success of this country, who've risen to the top positions in top industries, whether it's music or arts. So defensive. I'm not attacking the non-whites. I am. Well, in a way- Because you're worried about getting arrested. I get it. I'm not worried about being arrested.
48:12 Tucker Carlson? When they rush in the door with no guns, little bobbies with their sticks. They might as they know you're here. Probably. I'm not worried about. I got hassled at your airport again. Really? Yeah, always. Well, for being Tucker Carlson. You know, we don't know. It's just, it's the AI, I guess, but. Oh, wait, I love that. What happened to you? You know, I was like, go see the attendant. And by the way, the attendant was some Pakistani woman who's like, oh, we're so glad you're here.
48:37 Tucker Carlson? Which I don't think I would have gotten from the liberal white lady. So again, once again, I'm not attacking anyone on the basis of their race. You're saying that our culture has changed because we've had other cultures come here. Is that your position? Well, it's not my position. It's a fact. And you just said it at the beginning. I think. So it's better. So what about British culture didn't you like and has been improved by new cultures? Oh, in not well. Tell me, what didn't you like before? What are you glad is gone from the Britain you grew up in? Let me tell you, if you came to London in the 50s and 60s, the food was crap. Absolute crap. Well, it was that way in the 80s when I was here. Right. Now we have some of the best gastronomies. Amazing. Some of the most expensive too. I wonder, is everyone eating there? I paid a thousand dollars for dinner last night. You're a wealthy man, leading a very wealthy lifestyle.
49:22 Tucker Carlson? Holy shit, all the food here is. Come with me to Brick Lane. Come with me to Brixton. I'll give you a proper meal. I love it. You and I will go to the tough parts of town and eat street food. I can give you a great meal. But are you really saying the food? I'll take you to the top end of Portobello Market. Right? You come with me. If you want to risk death, walking up to Portobello Market, I'll take you and give you some street food and you'll spend £10. Market. And by the way, just in point of fact, I'm quite popular there. I will say that. In Notting Hill? I feel no fear at all. In Notting Hill? Yeah, I will eat. Really? Oh, man, I. I thought they they're so liberal there. Don't, don't even get me going. Even I get a hard time up there. I think they secretly love me because they know that they've been naughty.
50:03 Tucker Carlson? But whatever, my theories aside, here's my point. What about British culture apart from the boiled menu? Which was. Do you think, but the national character, let me say it again, tidiness, self-restraint, selflessness, courage, fairness. The British system was imported around the world on the basis of one concept, fairness. That comes from the Magna Carta. I think a lot of- Has this become a fairer society? It's become completely unfair. You put fucking Julian Assange in prison for years without charges. Because the CIA told you to. We have had a massive rising issue with the suppression of free speech. Which is a fairness issue. But that has nothing to do with ethnicity or- Oh, really? So what does it have to do with, do you think?
50:47 Tucker Carlson? It has to do with a very ridiculously draconian view of what free speech- But where does that come from? You've never had that. From governments. Of course, but those are attitudes that grow from the population, or else you would have a revolution. This is the country that invented free speech. The population does not want this suppression of free speech. They may not, but they keep voting for the fascists every time, whether it's Boris, whether it's Boris, or whether it's- Boris? No. He's a buffoon. It doesn't mean he's not an authoritarian. He wants, it's funny you mention the word buffoon, so I once- Well, I mean, that's axiomatic. Boris doesn't know how many children he has. I can tell you why, no, because I once interviewed him for GQ, and I said, Boris,
51:29 Tucker Carlson? this is 2008, 9, I said, Boris, I've always thought that lurking beneath the buffoon exterior lies a sharp, calculating political mind that wants to be prime minister. He wasn't even a sort of politician at the time. I looked at him and he said, Boris, you must consider the possibility that lurking beneath the buffoon exterior is an actual buffoon. True. So he was right. No, he was- I can't say we weren't warned. But the point is, look, it's not like- He's not a fascist, though, Boris Johnson. He's an authoritarian. But it diminishes the word fascist when you say that about people. I get annoyed- Well, what is fascism, actually? I mean, we're, we, meaning the collective West, meaning the Allies, meaning Roosevelt and Churchill, meaning America and its cousins in the UK, were fighting against an authoritarian
52:14 Tucker Carlson? system. It wasn't just about race hate, it was about full control of a population. We were arguing against that and fighting against- Of course, we were also funding it when we sent money to Stalin, but whatever. It was never fully consistent. But that's what we tell ourselves, and now that's what you have. There were three times as many people arrested in the UK last year for speech crimes as were arrested in Putin's Russia, and you have half the population. So this is much more authoritarian than Putin's Russia. Oh, it's not. What? How is it? How is it not? That's ridiculous. If you have three times as many arrests for speech crimes? Okay. It's more authoritarian. I've not seen that stat. If that is true, it's because we have been so appalling in protecting free speech. Well, you're appalling. I'm not, no, no debate there, but I'm just saying. As a matter, like, how do you define authoritarian?
52:56 Tucker Carlson? The idea that we are living here in a more authoritarian state than Russia. If you're, no, not come on, those are the numbers. You don't believe that? Uh, look, I believe in science, Piers. I believe in sciences. You think England is more authoritarian than Russia? I think you're more likely to be arrested for a speech crime in Great Britain, indeed, three times as likely. What would happen if you criticized? Three times. If you go on, if you went on the airwaves here tonight? I'm an American. They're not gonna mess with me. Okay, no, no, but if you went on the airwaves here tonight and you start abusing and hammering and mocking and criticizing our Prime Minister, which by the way, many people are doing. I'll give you. Well, no, no, let me finish my question. If you did that, what would happen to you? Nothing. Exactly. But what if I said I thought gay sex was disgusting and should be illegal? And if you went?
53:38 Tucker Carlson? Wait, hold on, hold on. That's nothing, Prime Minister. How about I'm a post-Distortery? How's that? I have to finish my question. And if you went to Moscow and you went on the airwaves and you did that about Putin, what would happen to you? You'd be in trouble. Right, so there's a difference. No, because this is. That's an authoritarian state. No, no, that's a straightforward. This one is not. That's a straightforward affair. This is a flawed democracy. No, this is global homo. That is. This is, no, no, this is. Global homo. It is, it's global homo. This is. What do you mean? I'm gonna tell you. I'm gonna tell you. This is a concept that you need to understand. This is. Yes, I do. Yes, you do. This is the authoritarianism of the present and future, and it's not, it's the feline passive-aggressive female version that doesn't tell you what it is. They don't march into your town in jackboots and put a rifle against your face and tell you obey.
54:22 Tucker Carlson? For sure. It's much more straightforward. And they kill you? It's a. And you fall off a building suddenly. Oh, you kill tons of people. You kill tons of people. I don't disagree. Oh, yeah, you do a lot. Yeah. Right, so let's, let's stop with the killing people because you kill tons of people, but as you well know, because you know the people who do it, and I do too. No, I'm saying there's something. More offensive about an authoritarianism that will not admit what it is. So instead, people are arrested here and thrown into jail. And I've been to Belmarsh Prison. It's awful. I've been there. It's awful. It is. But you walk in and there are all these signs about Trans Acceptance Week. It is fascism wrapped in the Human Rights Campaign rainbow logo.
55:05 Tucker Carlson? It's not any different from what we were fighting against. It's arresting you for saying something they don't want. I certainly believe, and this has been my big criticism of the woke left, I wrote this book called Woke is Dead, which is more an aspiration than a reality at the moment. But the point I was making was that the woke left became in the end, like the very fascists they profess to hate most, they literally behave like fascists. Anyone that deviated from their worldview. I don't want you to devalue the term. No, no, I'm not. I'm explaining the hypocrisy of the left. No, I get it. Which I think we could probably agree with, is if you start to behave like the very people you claim you hate most, you are a brazen hypocrite. It's not just the left, it's the right. Well, the right's thing as well. Unfortunately, yeah. I agree, some of the right thing as well, I agree.
55:50 Tucker Carlson? Hypocrisy is hypocrisy, isn't it? Wherever you see it. And I do think that this, the way I would categorize what's happened here is successive governments, right and left, have pandered to a weird sentiment driven by very vocal but small numbers of people that we have to start getting into the suppressing free speech business. And it's been a catastrophic failure, which has diminished this country. But why? What we're beginning to see is the coming out of that. And I'll give an example, when Graham Linehan, the comedian, Yeah. the father Ted Genius, right, and he decided to take on this whole trans issue head on. And a bit like J.K. Rowling, he got shamed, vilified, cancelled, he lost everything, he lost his family,
56:33 Tucker Carlson? he lost his jobs, he lost everything, he became unemployable, completely cancelled. And he did some jokes on X back in April. And they were, yeah, they were just like harmless, right? He talked about a trans woman coming into a woman's space. Harmless to you as a non-trans. Person, but genocidal to the Of course, which again is ridiculous. So he, he, he did a joke about a trans woman coming into a, a women's space. And I said, what is your kick him in the balls, right? It was a joke. It was, you have a knuckle joke? If you're oversensitive, you go, oh, most people just laughed and took it for what it was. It's that kind of joke that wouldn't even be considered remotely controversial 10 years ago. When he arrived at Heathrow Airport several months later,
57:17 Tucker Carlson? he was arrested by five armed police officers and taken off to the cells. And I just found that utterly shocking. So I'm not pretending there's not been a massive problem about free speech. But what was interesting and encouraging was the public backlash. Hence my, my book title, Woke is Dead. The public backlash was so ferocious that within a week, the police said, we're not going to prosecute Lenin. And actually, they said further, we're never going to prosecute anyone for this kind of thing again. This kind of thing. That was a bug when I went, we're finally getting a bit of But that's not, so the trans thing is absurd. It's so absurd that like, it's easy for people to say that's absurd. What's actually happening here, as I think you know, is the society is being changed by its leaders against the will of the population. The population hates it. They've always hated it.
58:02 Tucker Carlson? No population wants radical demographic change, none. And so it's been so profound since 1997 under Tony Blair, that you're not allowed to note that your country is being taken from you. Okay, so you can criticize trainees all you want. You cannot criticize Israel, as you know. You're not allowed to criticize demographic change and you can't criticize the rest of the fabled LGBT community. And if you don't believe me, listen to this story, which is like, it's unbelievable. This is from the Daily Mail, which is like, kind of a ridiculous publication, but I I love the Daily Mail. I do too. I, I do. There's a lot about it I like, but I mean, it's like absurd. But anyway, Elizabeth Kinney from Tranmere, have you read about this? Go on. She's a mother of four, I think she's a nurse, and she gets beaten up by her boyfriend.
58:47 Tucker Carlson? He beats her up, she goes to the hospital. And she texts someone, a buddy of hers, a friend of hers, a girlfriend of hers, and describes the man who beat her up and sent her to the hospital as a quote, faggot. It's a faggot.
59:03 Tucker Carlson? And she's arrested and convicted of a hate crime. The guy who beat her up is not arrested or convicted. And then she goes through this whole kabuki, which is now required, where she prostrates herself before the judge. "I'm sorry, it was not a homophobic rant." By the way, you're allowed to be homophobic if you want in a free country. You can have any view you want. But no, because she used the word "faggot," she's arrested and the guy who punched her in the face was not. That story tells you everything. Well, I don't know that story. If it's exactly- Daily Mail, baby. Okay. Pictures of her and everything. I'm not doubting it, I'm just saying I need to look into it. But if that is how you've told it, obviously it's ridiculous. Would you say the word "faggot" on camera? No. Why? Because I- You don't want to get arrested, do you? No, I don't want to be arrested. Whoa, because it's so harmful to people?
59:49 Tucker Carlson? No, no. Is that like gay bashing? What's wrong with that? No, actually, my whole issue with the whole trans debate, for example, is you don't need to slide into actually saying derogatory stuff about trans people to make the point that women's rights should be protected. You don't need to- Well, I agree. So, so what, I don't believe- No, but it's a magic word. I don't believe in needlessly sneering- I'm not smearing anybody, I just think- But why, would you use that word? "Faggot"? Yeah. I just did. But would you use it? "Faggot, faggot, faggot." Okay, but, but why? And I'm using it because you're not allowed to, because you're- I'm allowed to. Go ahead. I don't want to. Say, "I love gay people." "Faggot." I'm, I'm allowed to, I just choose not to. This chick just got arrested for it and convicted. Right. So that doesn't have a chilling effect on your ability to- There are people watching this who will be offended by the use of the word "chick." I'm sure they will, I'm not anti-gay, I never have been.
1:00:34 Tucker Carlson? I can use any freaking word I want. Then you'd bother using the word "chick."
1:00:38 Tucker Carlson? "Check."
1:00:40 Tucker Carlson? Okay, whatever, I give up. I dare you be so sexist, comparing women to chicks. How about this? "Let my life, the way that I actually live and treat people, be the testament to my heart." That's how I feel. Right. And if I've mistreated someone, that is a sin. I don't believe, I don't, you correct me if I'm wrong, I don't believe you would call a gay person a "faggot" to their face. Not in a mean way. By the way, the only people I ever hear use the word "faggot" are gay. Right. Ever. Just like the only people you ever- Here to use the N word or black. Right. Period. Right. So if you spend any time around gays, and I have spent a lot of time around gays. Who, of course, I work in television. I mean, half our staff was gay. They're great people. And they're the only ones who ever said, faggot, he's a faggot. I'd be like, ah. I have no need to say the word. Actually, it's kind of an ugly word.
1:01:24 Tucker Carlson? But you know the argument they use, which is. Well, they don't use it. They use the word constantly. I've worked with them my whole life. Well, I wrote a column, for example, about the use of. But I'm not allowed to use it, but you are. I don't play those games, dude. Listen, I can make a point. I wrote a, I wrote a column for the Mail, actually, about the use of the N word. And the Washington Post had a huge report on this and said that every day on Twitter, as it was then, the N word was used half a million times, but almost exclusively by young African American men. So it's cool. Well, they, they would argue, and I understood the argument. Yeah. It's that they reclaim that word. I don't believe in universal rights either. I think certain standards should apply to certain people based on their blood. And, but don't apply to everybody. What do you mean?
1:02:10 Tucker Carlson? I mean, that's what you're saying, dude. The standards have to be absolute, or they're not standards. I was about to make my argument. Sorry, you're getting me so wound up. No, no, but I actually made the point in the column that I don't think that works. I don't think you reclaim it. What you actually do is you empower genuine racists to say, well, if they're using that word, I'm gonna use it. And so I felt it was entirely self-defeating reclamation of that offensive word. I would say the same to gay people. If you constantly use the F word in your own. What's the F word? You know what? We've just been saying, if you want to keep saying it, you keep saying it. I'm not gonna keep saying it. It's worse than fuck, isn't it? Uh, to a gay person, from a straight person, yes. Have, from a straight person, but not from the gay person? That's my point. I don't. So I thought we were.
1:02:55 Tucker Carlson? I understand the reclamation argument that they put up, that if they. Reclamation? That they're reclaiming the word and they're disempowering it. That's fine. I don't care. I think that's kind of amusing, actually. I sort of. I just don't think it works. I think the more these words get used, then the more they'll be. But is it really about words? I guess that's kind of what I'm saying. I think it empowers people who are genuinely racist or homophobic to then use those words. Okay, they're genuinely racist and homophobic. I don't care. Why don't you pick up the trash? Okay, that's kind of how I feel. And stop letting people from countries where they can't speak English come to your country, by the. Millions like, don't the material things matter? Don't the actual things matter? Your father lying on a cot in a public hospital? I do think that people, when they come to a country, should try and learn the language. Of cour- but, no, but, what, I'm not, again, I'm not attacking anybody.
1:03:38 Tucker Carlson? I'm just saying, the whole debate about what words are allowed and by whom is, first of all, insane because, again, standards mean nothing unless they apply to everyone because we believe in human rights, not group rights or ethnic rights. We're against that because we're against the Nazis, right? So there's that, but it's also a distraction from what actually matters. If your dad is spending hours, I'm sure he was a Britney, spent his whole life here paying taxes? And that's what he gets? It's like, we should be having- Completely unacceptable. But it is acceptable, that's the problem. Instead, we're arresting that girl for saying "faggot." Well, the two things- Or as we say here, the F-word. Yeah. No, I don't, like I said, I don't know that story, I'll look into it, but I do- Does she look like a faggot user to you? She looks too nice. Come on.
1:04:23 Tucker Carlson? I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Behave yourself. No, I can't, I- I know you can't. They're making me want to say that because it's so outrageous that you would arrest someone for a word. I agree. And, like, we actually have to put ourselves at risk to stop- I agree. Yeah. I agree with you. Well, then, help me now, let's, let's do, let's, let's have a moment of self-liberation. I think you'll be on to help. Hold my hand, hold my hand. We're gonna say "faggot" together, you ready? No, we're not. Do you say gay and retard? Huh? Do you say gay and retard? I say gay, I wouldn't use the R-word. I wouldn't. I personally wouldn't. Are you- It's my choice. Do you think it should be legal to abort a Down syndrome baby? I am exercising my free speech right not to use that word.
1:05:06 Tucker Carlson? I totally agree. I actually don't use the N-word, ever, because I think it's ugly. I just don't like it. So by your own- I don't- -petard, you're being- I kind of agree, I'm not even, I'm mostly making fun to make a point. I actually think that we should not kill people because they have Down syndrome. I think they're beautiful people, and I think when you get to heaven, it'll probably fill people with Down syndrome because they are pure in spirit, and I'm not joking, even a tiny bit, I really believe that. But people who think it's okay to genocide everyone with Down syndrome through that alpha fetoprotein test are lecturing me because I'm using the word retard. It's like, maybe we're missing the real argument. That's all I'm saying. Does that make sense? It does, although I'm pro a woman's right to choose what to do with her body. Including And bear in mind aborting someone because he's retarded? Well, in this country, to be clear, abortion's a very settled issue.
1:05:51 Tucker Carlson? George Galloway doesn't believe in Well, no, but honestly, it's not a contentious issue. In America, I know, in America, it's a ferocious contentious issue. It is simply not one in this country. Maybe that's part of the problem. I don't think it's a problem at all. Who's having the abortions here?
1:06:05 Tucker Carlson? Well, a lot of people have abortions here. Right, it's pretty overwhelmingly, though, people whose grandparents lived here. Have you ever noticed that? Who's people who what? It's the native population having the abortions. It's not immigrants not having a ton of abortions. And if you look at the numbers I don't know the demographic But that's true everywhere. And I just had a deeper issue. So like, what is the loss of the will to live? Why, if you're not having, and you're a huge exception to this, I know you've procreated SFI, God bless us both, but a lot of native-born Brits do not have many children, if any. It's also true in the United States, it's especially true in Canada. Well, I think this is becoming a massive issue, and Elon Musk has been right about this. Yes. The biggest problem is not, as we all assumed, overpopulation in the world, but
1:06:49 Tucker Carlson? underpopulation, because a lot of people now, especially as the changing way society's gone with many more women working and so on, that the number of children that are being born, actually in places like the UK and the US, is reducing quite markedly, projected for the next 50 years. And you're seeing in some countries in Asia, for example, it's getting catastrophically low very fast. And this is going to be a massive problem. South Korea? Yeah, it's going to be There will be no South Koreans in a hundred years, it will only be North Koreans. What does that tell you? Well, it's not a good, not a good moment. No, but where's that, I totally agree with you and with Elon. And again, I feel like we've all done our part to reverse that trend. But I feel like we spend no time asking, why is this?
1:07:33 Tucker Carlson? Well, don't you think it's as simple in most cases as the changing work practice? You went in nineteen fifty's. That's part of it, yeah. Nineteen fifty's in the UK, most women didn't work. Now, when women go out to work a lot more, they probably don't have the time to have three, four, five children. There's no doubt. And they can't afford it. Childcare is more expensive. In the United States, it's more expensive than, I think, any other expense, but for young people with children. Of course, you're right, but there's also something a little bit deeper than that. It's like, it used to be just axiomatic that reproducing was not just your duty, but your greatest joy. That was the way you create the next generation, continue your civilization, and that has died since the Second World War.
1:08:16 Tucker Carlson? And not just in the white world. But yeah, so but that is like a profound change. What is in argument, actually, I mean, look, like I said, the population here has gone from fifty million to seventy million since the fifties. The really worrying graph is what happens in the next fifty years. No, but that growth in population has been almost exclusively from immigration. And true in the United States, and Canada is just like a completely different country. Nothing like that has ever happened in the history of the world. Why is this happening? Well, what, in terms of people traveling around? No, in terms of people deciding not to pass on their genes, committing mass suicide, because that's what that is. Well. Yeah, our families lived in this village for two thousand, since the beginning of recorded history in this country.
1:09:02 Tucker Carlson? Unlike mine, you have a native population. Because no one could. You're the Cherokee of this island, okay? I don't want to give you a history lesson, but a hundred years ago, you know, we, everyone traveled by horse and cart. There was no airplane. You couldn't leave the country, you couldn't go to other places. But rather like tribes two thousand years ago, who used to literally just sit in their little area, or wherever it may be. Eventually, they ventured out, and so evolution. I'm for that. I'm not, I would never argue against that. But once. I flew here, actually. Yeah, right, of course. So, once you're able to do that, obviously, people are going to go exploring. They're going to want to try and live in other places. The question then becomes, how enriching or? Damaging or both and in what levels is an influx of people from other ethnicities,
1:09:45 Tucker Carlson? other cultures, other countries. I would say on balance, London in particular, has been almost a template actually for tolerance and cohesion and multiculturalism at its best. The stabbings you're talking about? Well, let's talk about the stabbings. The murder rate in London, do you know what it is compared to any major city in America? Probably much lower, I would think. Way lower testosterone level here. I mean, you can feel it too. Yeah, that's true, actually. Every time, "Oh, I'm aware, I'm aware." But look, I'm not- You have the worst murder rates- Well, I know. And by the way, we always have, which is interesting. There are a lot of factors for that, and it's one of the saddest things in my country. I would never defend- The murder rate in London, for example, I checked before I came and saw you, because I thought you'd asked- You think London's a better city than it was 40 years ago, 50 years ago?
1:10:29 Tucker Carlson? Well, statistically, the murder rate is actually been plummeting in London. Do you know any- Which I'm good. I tell you the problem in London, what we really need in London- Wait, do you think it's a better city than it was 40 years ago, for real? Yeah. You think Sadiq Khan's better than what you had before? I think Sadiq Khan is somebody who's won two more terms after his first, because actually he's not done as bad a job as people say. Oh, that's the new standard. Nor has he done as, oh no, nor has he done as good a job as he would like you to believe. But certainly in things like tackling murder, I give him credit. In tackling things like the clean air, where some of the boroughs here were the most polluted- You have no factories. You don't make anything. All you do is banking. How could there be dirty air?
1:11:09 Tucker Carlson? What are you even talking about? There's no manufacturing. You lost automotive, you lost aerospace, you lost, you lost everything. Steel? It's clean air because people are idle. They're delivering food to people who work at banks. That's it. There is more, there is more traffic now in London than there was even four years ago. I'm sure. Right. That's called tourism. So my borough, Kensington and Chelsea, for example, one in 12 people, there was a big study on this a few years ago, one in 12 people were dying from pollution-related illness, right? I had a lot of issues, which I thought were allergy issues. Eventually, I was told, "Right, here's what you should do. Check your air quality app every morning. When it's really high, don't go out and shut the windows. Secondly, get air purifying machines in your house for the rooms you use."
1:11:53 Tucker Carlson? I did both. Guess what? I've had no problems since, and I didn't have any allergies. Well, that's amazing. And all it cost was a total destruction of- Your economy. So why do you think there was polluted before? Our economy has not been destroyed. We're still one of the biggest economies in the world. What is the economy here? What's it based on? What do you mean? What's the British economy? I say, I look at the economy of, I don't know, Wales in 1900 and it's like, it's coal. They mined, they did coal, people burn it. That's what their economy is. Look at the economy of Sheffield or Birmingham 100 years ago. Well, of course it was steelmaking. What's the economy? There's still a lot of manufacturing in the UK. But as a percentage, your economy- The percentage of manufacturing could be a lot less. A lot less? It's almost non-existent. Right. We still have one of the biggest economies in the world now.
1:12:37 Tucker Carlson? But what is that economy based on? A lot of things. Okay, what's the main one? Well, the city has a lot of manufacturing. That's the main one? Well, there's a lot of technology stuff going on. There's a lot of scientific stuff going on. There's all sorts of industries. You haven't, you haven't mentioned the biggest one by far. Well, go on. Was lending money to people. Banking. Banking, yeah. Okay, that's number, we're in the city of London right now. How many things are being made in the city of London other than debt? It's one of the financial hubs of the world. We're right in the city here. I know we're sitting in the city of London right now, run by City Con. Right. But again, it's not as bad as people think it is. But hold on, is that really an economy? If your economy is real estate, that's London's other big economic center,
1:13:19 Tucker Carlson? is buying and selling and leasing pieces of property again and again to different people. Nothing's being created. But that's not true. That's not true. We are creating things here. A lot of things. Like what? There's a lot of money- Barata, okay, yeah, there's a lot of, of course, there's a lot of money because people from around the world stash their money here because it's a system based on fairness. There's a lot of manufacturing, not as much as there was 80 years ago. How much is in London, your biggest city, the dominant city? I don't know the percentages, so we have to check. Pretty much, unless you're talking about like burritos being manufactured or whatever, I don't think there's really any. The bigger problem for us is not what economy we're doing, it's how we manage the economy. So it doesn't matter where the money comes from?
1:14:00 Tucker Carlson? It does, but successive governments have dragged us to a place where we have almost zero growth. Without growth, you can't have a successful, thriving country. That's not true. Have you been to Japan? It's like the most successful thriving country in the world. It has had no growth for a long, not real growth. And we've gotten these lectures from the bankers for like 30 years. Japan is dying. Ever go to Japan? You could, there are four-year-old girls in the subway alone? There's not one speck of litter in all of Tokyo and it's one of the biggest cities in the world, 12 million. It's an incredible society. It's the opposite of New York, London, Baltimore, Detroit. It's incre- I know you've been there and I know you've had these naughty forbidden thoughts like, wait a second, I thought we dropped a bomb on them. How are they so great? No, no, no. I like, I like going to Tokyo, but- No growth! How'd they do that with no growth?
1:14:44 Tucker Carlson? I was assured by libertarian economics, if we had no growth, things would be bad. Well, look at this. I like going to Japan, but I wouldn't stop it for London. Right. Fair. You're, you're English. That's kind of the point. Right. This is your homeland. And I genuinely do love London. I bet you do. When I lived in America full-time, I really missed a lot of the- I hope so. This is where your ancestors are from. I get it. That's the whole point. That's the whole argument I'm making. It matters where you're from. The culture really matters. It's not about growth. It's not about any of this crap. It's about, do I, am I on the same page with my neighbor? Do we have something in common? Do we have the same gut instincts about things? Those are the most important questions there are. Economic prosperity raises all the ships. Is that, has that been true here? It should be true. Is there more poverty in London now than there was 40 years ago? There's more child poverty.
1:15:29 Tucker Carlson? Yes, I know. In fact, the child poverty rate is worse here than it is in America. A lot worse. The general poverty- So how is this so great, even though they have barata? Poverty rate is actually, uh, lower than it is in America, but child poverty specifically- Is there anything that matters other than child poverty? Probably not, no. Not really, so... Look, I'm not slagging on, I love your country. I really thought a lot about this since I was so mean during that conversation. I was just wounded because I feel like the destruction of Britain has effects on our entire Anglo civilization. Did you actually look out and see a destroyed? No, it's just beautiful. I mean, this is, again, this is the rich part of town. I could take you, I could take you to Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow, Cardiff. I could take you to-
1:16:14 Tucker Carlson? How they doing? They're all doing great. Much better than you think. Honestly, Tokyo, you'll walk around, you'll see the pubs packed, the restaurants packed, the theaters packed. You'll see people having a great time. Go out on a Friday night in London. Go, go to, go to the Devonshire in Soho. The best Irish pub in town. Four deep in the streets. Everyone having a great time. I love that. 20,000 pints of Guinness being sold every week. I, I could say that there are so many things about London- I really like I've been here three days again visiting relatives. Have you genuinely have you felt threatened walking around? No, not at all. Again, what's who's gonna do anything? Pakistanis are all super nice to me and the whites are all kind of craving and sad. No, you're totally safe here, man. It's not that at all. It's just that it's dirty. It's what? It's dirty.
1:16:59 Tucker Carlson? Oh, come on. American cities aren't any cleaner than London. They're dirtier. They're dirtier. And it's one of the great tragedies and I can't get anyone to care. I agree. Nobody cares. I agree. So that to me, if I went to your bedroom right now. Sorry? I'm not going. I'm not going, especially after the whole faggot thing. It's like, I'm on my way. I got it. I got it. I got it. And you said you were so liberal. But but if I went to your house unannounced, I bet I would find it tidy and clean. And I bet I would find that just because you have a housekeeper. I don't even know if you do, but because you care, because you have self-respect. Right. That's why you're shaving. But I agree with that point. I think the self-respect part, I totally agree with you. We've lost that. We've lost the, I think, the British. We're legendary for our politeness, our manners. Yes. That has gone. We've really. Dude, that's everything.
1:17:44 Tucker Carlson? No, but I totally agree with you. So when you talk about the cultural stuff that I really regret that has gone out of fashion, if you like. It is things like that. It's things like, you know, a British person needs to speak well and open doors for women and things like that. Now that's frowned upon, right? The kind of screaming radical feminists have made it almost a taboo thing. Young men in particular do not know how to behave. When I'm out with them, I notice they don't stand up when women walk into a room or to a table. They don't open doors for women and stuff because they've been conditioned to think this might be toxic masculinity and always bullshit. That kind of stuff really worries me. Do you ever wonder where it comes from? Because I know the answer, but I'm not like. Well, you're gonna say it's multiculturalism, but a lot of the other cultures that have come here actually have far more politeness.
1:18:28 Tucker Carlson? I agree. I agree completely. So that's the, yeah. That's exactly my point, is that the cost is to the invaded. You're being invaded. You already said their boat's showing up uninvited. That's called an invasion. A lot through history and it's the people who are conquered, who are vanquished, who suffer. The immigrants all seem kind of happy. It's better than Bangalore, you know, or wherever. Feel conquered and. Well, you, but you are though. I mean, if people are showing up in boats in your country, no, I don't know what to do about them. Well, how about sink them? You really think? To put it in, to put it in perspective. Lord Nelson would put up with this. In perspective, in the last five years, we've had about 200,000 people come over our southern border.
1:19:08 Tucker Carlson? In the last five years in America, until Donald Trump got a grip of it, you have apparently 10 million come over the southern border. Oh, more. Right. So I'm afraid there is no comparison. We have a little problem. You had a gigantic problem. Let, let me add an amen, as we say in the black church. I totally agree. And that's why Britain is so interesting because for two reasons. One, the people who are being invaded and replaced are the native population. They're the Iroquois of the British Isles. They've been here forever. Their ancestors' bones were at Stonehenge. There's no debate about that, though they pretend otherwise, but that's just a fact. So eliminating indigenous populations is like kind of a sin, I thought, but it's happening here and in Ireland and in Scotland and in Wales. A, B. Hang on, they're not being eliminated.
1:19:51 Tucker Carlson? Of course they are. Look at the birth rates. What are their birth rates? That's not an elimination. Of course it is. Over time it is. That is people taking a decision about their own lives and not having enough children or as many as they used to have. Well, a. That's not elimination. What do you mean it's not a limit? No one's forcing them. No. No one's telling the white population of this country, you can't have more than one child. Well, that's kind of the point that I'm making. But they're not though. The if, well, whatever they're doing, I mean, they're, they're certainly encouraging, they're aggressively encouraging. They're aggressively encouraging homosexuality. Use the F word and you go to jail. No, what, what is that? If you want to know who's in charge, you can't criticize. You can't use the word faggot? What? No one's aggressively encouraging homosexuality. This girl went to jail for using a naughty word about gays, dude. They're not encouraging it. What do you think that is?
1:20:36 Tucker Carlson? What's wrong with homosexuality?
1:20:40 Tucker Carlson? Well, if you encourage it and the rate goes up, people have fewer kids. I don't know, you, did you do biology? Well, no, just to be clear, most gay people don't have kids. That's the point I'm making. So if all of a sudden you have more people being gay, which you do, a lot? No, you don't. People don't pretend to be gay. Do you have the internet? Huh? I don't know. I'm not saying they're pretending. I'm saying you've got way more- Gay, you're gay, right? Well, you know, we used to say that, but- You don't think so? Well, I used to think that, but all of a sudden you're having- I think lots of people put in their hand up saying they're trans. That's a different issue. Oh, it's totally different. It's not part of the continuum. It's not like gender isn't real. I can pretend it. If you're gay, you're gay. Well, you know, we were told that and I believed a lot of things that I-
1:21:25 Tucker Carlson? Do you not believe that? Well, it's demonstrably not true because science tells us it's not true. You think people are making it up? I don't think they're making it up at all. So what's your point? I think that you can be moved in that direction through propaganda and pornography. Oh, come on, Tucker. Well, then, then, then how do you explain? Is there anything that would make you, could I make you gay?
1:21:44 Tucker Carlson? How hard do you want to try? Not hard, I can tell you. That's the spirit, Pierce. There's a limit. Even an open-minded man like you, you kind of hate the gays. Could I make you gay? I make little gay jokes and you're like, oh, I'm not gonna be gay. Oh, no. Why are you using a gay slur? That's fine. Well, first of all, it, the context matters, as I've told you. I mean, that's like coffee table conversation between the gays. I work with that fox, faggot. So if it's okay with them, it's okay with me. It's just, it's sort of like, it's sort of like racism, only the whites are upset about it. You don't actually think people can be persuaded to be gay? Well, then, why don't you explain the twofold or threefold increase in self-identified homosexuals in the United States? I can. They used to be repressed. It used to be illegal in this country until the mid-sixties. You literally went to jail. So all through history-
1:22:27 Tucker Carlson? Hang on, hang on. You literally were put in a prison cell if you were openly homosexual. That was more here, actually. You guys did- Oscar Wilde, we didn't, but you also. Absolutely shocking. Yeah, it was terrible. You ruled the world at the time. And now you're a joke, dependent on foreign known banks. And you think that's because we. But everyone's gay, so it's like a great trade. So allowing, allowing gay people to be openly gay is why we wrecked our country. Mocking masculinity is the fastest way to servitude. Totally different. Ask any Pakistani. That's why I like the Pakistanis here. You talk to a Pakistani cab driver and you're like, why are you gay? And they will start laughing because they've watched the video and they're like, I'm not gay. I'm a man. What's it got to do with masculinity? Ask a single Briton, why are you gay? They'll be like, well, I'm not gay, but it would be okay if I was. Hmm. And it's like, there's no masculine self-respect at all.
1:23:12 Tucker Carlson? You're sounding quite homophobic. I'm not afraid of gays at all. I'm just asking, actually, a sign. You don't even, I should think they really exist by the sound of it. Well, they exist. No, but are they real? Does, is their sexuality genuinely? Are they sleeping with dudes? Yeah, big time. Well, and women, are they attracted to members of their own sex? The lesbian thing is way overblown. Actually, there are a lot of lesbians. How many?
1:23:34 Tucker Carlson? I haven't counted, Tucker. I love this conversation. Not recently. This is so great. You're gonna get so fucking arrested after this. It's gonna be unbelievable. No one's arresting me. Okay. No one's arresting me, but I'm just curious whether you think the gay people actually. Let me, let me, let me, let me. Actually are gay, or whether you think they've been somehow turned. For the third time, I think it's completely sincere. Right. Completely sincere. So what's your problem with it? The question, I'm not saying I have a problem with it. I'm merely saying you get fewer children when more people are gay. No, you don't. Well, actually, you do. More people aren't gay, just more people are able to admit they're gay. Hold on, hold on. You don't get fewer, well, hold on, wait, stop. Okay. Was it like 30% of the population always, like in Roman times, about 30% would you say? I'm just saying. No, it was like, this is.
1:24:17 Tucker Carlson? The falling birth rates have nothing to do with gay people. If you have more gays, do you have fewer children? We don't have more gays. We've got way more gays. No, no, we have more people who are not afraid to say they're gay. They're letting their freak flag fly. They are actually gay, Tucker. They just haven't been able to admit it. So why isn't that the case like in Asia? What do you mean? I mean, I don't think there's no Asian country, and they're not all like putting gays in jail. Malaysia might be. Korea's not. South Korea. Why, why is their self-described homosexuality rate so?
1:24:52 Tucker Carlson? Much lower than yours. Japan, same. Because culturally, it is not a thing. So it's genetic. You think it's genetic? No, it's cultural. No, no, people become gay. The last World Cup. But how do people become gay? Let me give you a second. The World Cup is coming. I'm talking about soccer. I'm telling you why. I want to talk about the gay thing. I'm telling you why. How do they become gay? Why are you gay? One in four countries, in the last World Cup, actually outlaw being homosexual. It's criminal offence. Do you think that's right? I don't care. You should care. Okay, I really care. You've got people arrested for using the word faggot. That's who I feel sorry for. This chick from Britain. So do you, so, right, so you feel very exercised about that? She's in Great Britain. She's not in some primitive theocracy. Are you not as exercised about people being arrested and put in prison cell for their sexuality? If they're gay?
1:25:39 Tucker Carlson? Why do you feel as angry about that? Because it's not my culture. It's not my country. It's not. Come on. Well, I'm not for arresting any. I'm for arresting very few people. You think people should be arrested for their sexuality? Of course not! Right, so you agree with me? You're, talk about, okay, I will, as of, also a talk show host, you're not going to get me off my path. And my path leads to this question. How do people become gay? Why? They don't become gay. What, are they born gay? Yes. How does that work? They're born gay. How? They have a sexual attraction to their own sex. I understand the manifestations, the symptoms. The symptoms? Yeah, the symptoms. The symptoms of my homosexual. They're born gay. Okay. So that means it's genetic. You may not want to acknowledge that. No, no, I'm just asking how it works. So there's a gay gene.
1:26:25 Tucker Carlson? You said you worked with lots of gay people. No, no, hold on, hold on. There's a gay gene. Did you not have this conversation with actual gay people? Yeah, a lot of them say, "I got molested, that's why I'm gay." In fact, a really good friend of mine who's gay said, "I got molested, that's why I'm gay." You think all gay people are gay because they got molested? No, I don't think that. But I am wondering, I don't know the answer. But I was. I would say the absolute vast majority of gay people are gay because they are actually attracted to members of their own sex. No, no, but again, that's a manifest, that's a manifest. It's a natural thing. You're not, let's, let's just do science for 30 seconds. Of course you're right. That's the definition of gay. I'm attracted to someone of my same sex. Do I believe that they're attracted to people from their own sex? Yes. Well, obviously, they have sex with them. Okay. So that's what attraction is. So what's the big deal? Why'd you care? My question, because the self-reported incidence of it.
1:27:11 Tucker Carlson? has risen. So we were told 30 years ago, and I have a good memory. It's about 10%, but the actual self- Because people would be mercilessly mocked for it. Listen, listen, listen, listen. Then, but the self reported rate was like 5%, then it's 10%. Now it's like 30%. So my question is, were they all born that way? 30% of a population is born homosexual? As an evolutionary matter, you tell me how that works. How do you reproduce? It's not 30% of the population. In the United States and a lot of places it is, 30%. It's not here. It's not 30%. It's way higher here, based on the vibe. What is way higher is the number of people compared to 30- But where does it come from? 30 years ago- Is it genetic and where's the gene? 30 years ago, gay people were persecuted. I know, I've heard the story. No, they were persecuted. We were commemorating Stonewall the other day at my house. You know, I'm on board with all of this stuff.
1:27:55 Tucker Carlson? Yeah, the candlelight vigil, we always do it every year. Every February 9th, we- I arrest my kids in this kind of mock Stonewall thing. What do you do if one of your kids- They say, "I just want to be free!" And then I unlock the handcuffs and- What happens if one of your kids says they're gay? I love my kids no matter what. I love my kids no matter what they do. They're my, they're my, they're my children. Would you think someone had turned them into a gay person? Or would you accept that was a natural thing? I'm a journalist, so I actually wonder what the real answer is, not the bullshit propaganda answer. What would you say to them? I don't know, that's why I'm asking you. You say people are born gay. I'm asking you what you would do. You don't want to answer because you don't have an answer because you know that your answer is bullshit! No, my answer's correct. That they're born that way. They're born gay. Then, is there a gene for it?
1:28:35 Tucker Carlson? And you know there isn't. So tell me, a gene, it's, it, it, it's the code that determines your physical and emotional characteristics. You have blue eyes because you have a gene for blue eyes. Right.
1:28:47 Tucker Carlson? If someone is gay, then there should be a gene that we can isolate and say it's the gay gene. And science has been looking for the gay gene for a long time. And my question is, where is it? I'm waiting on my gay gene. I ordered a gay gene. And it hasn't arrived yet. I'm waiting, where's my gay gene? That's what it might be. Yeah, I'm waiting for my gay gene. And if there isn't a gay gene, then it's totally within bounds. It's not homophobia, it's not hate. I don't want to arrest people in Liberia or whatever the hell you're talking about. I just want to know, what is this? And no one will answer the question. And I don't know why. It's weird, right? Why can't we have a non-emotional conversation with, "Why are you gay?" As they say in Nigeria, "Why are you gay?" And no one will answer it. Well, in Nigeria, it's a criminal offense to be gay. I don't know. You think there aren't gay people in Nigeria? I haven't been there in a while. Of course, there are gay people in Nigeria. Where does it come from?
1:29:32 Tucker Carlson? And you can't answer the question. Because if they admit they're gay, they get put in prison. That can't be right, right? You're a guy who doesn't... Putting someone in prison because he says he's gay? Of course, I'm against that. I mean, please. Not because he says he's gay, but because he's gay. But pointing to an extreme third world... You guys don't bring Nigerians here, do you? There are a lot of Nigerians here. What? You import gay haters into your country? I thought you were for the gays. No, I'm serious. Why would you import? You're just telling me that the Nigerians are bad. You said you basically hate Nigerians because they hate the gays. As you know, Tucker, there are lots of countries around the world with different laws to hear, different rules, different culture. But why would you import them? If you love the gays, why would you import people? Because when they come here, they have to abide by our laws. That's how it works. And your values. So what are those values? No, actually, you don't have to come here with our values. Oh.
1:30:16 Tucker Carlson? You have to come here and abide by our laws. And your laws include not using the word "faggot." That's against the law. I just think, why would you do that? And just be offensive for the sake of... I totally agree with you. I never use that word. I'm just being honest. I never use that word, ever. I think this may be the first time I've used it since the 80s. But it's not a matter of custom. It's a matter of law because this woman, mother of four, wound up in prison for it. So if that's going to be the law, it's obviously like the most important... It's so important to you that people not insult gays in any way. You can insult straights. You can insult gays as much as you like. Well, no, you can't. You get arrested and you go to jail. Well, I don't know that, so I'm gonna look into it. But as I said to you... I'm gonna hand it to you right here. Here it is. I don't think people should be arrested for using words like that. I agree. There should be social disapproval.
1:31:00 Tucker Carlson? You should be allowed to be hateful under freedom of speech. I totally agree. You know, if you're not actually inciting violence against people, which is a different thing. I agree. We should agree. If I say, "Go and stab Tucker Carlson," and he's staying at this hotel right now. It's a criminal offense. Totally agree. There's already a law and statute in both our countries for that. So I can tell that we were both born in the 1960s because we totally agree on the underlying human right, which is the core human right, which is the right to conscience and self-expression. And both of us are on exactly the same page. Where I lose you is, your whole world is crumbling around you. I'm worried that's gonna happen in my country, which is why I'm hassling you. My whole world's great. In fact, it couldn't be better. The restaurants are better, I totally get it. That's what matters.
1:31:41 Tucker Carlson? If I'd known you were in town yesterday, I'd have taken you to the Emirates Stadium to watch my football team Arsenal beat our North London rivals 4-1. It was the most joyous, magnificent experience imaginable. You would have seen a multicultural crowd roaring as one. It's incredible. Jews, Muslims, white, black. Love it, love it. Gay, straight, all joined as one as Arsenal fans. It's what the church used to be. Except they charge you admission, I get it, I know what bread and circus is. Well, actually, the church used to charge you admission in the old, uh, the old books. We had Martin Luther for that, and we were gonna fix them. Henry VIII played along, so God bless you for that. But here's the point. No, but here's my point, if I took you to the Devonshire for a pint of Guinness, you'd love it.
1:32:26 Tucker Carlson? If I took you to Arsenal, to a massive multicultural stadium with fans, you'd love it, 60,000 people, no trouble, no aggravation. I'm here voluntarily, I love it. I just don't want it to evaporate into... It's not evaporating. Okay. We have challenges. Why aren't you more panicked that thousands of people, thousands, by their own admission, the admission of the, of the British government, are arrested every year for saying words, not threats, words? I am, I've expressed my... So why doesn't someone try to overthrow the government? I don't understand, how can they treat you like slaves and you put up with it? If they carry on down that road. Well, they are carrying it on, it's thousands a year and it's getting more. Then they will be voted out of office, I guarantee it, yes. That's how we do it. Is that what Winston Churchill would say?
1:33:03 Tucker Carlson? I think Winston Churchill said, even if a strong man tries to take Poland, a country we've got nothing to do with, it's not even close to here, we're going to risk the lives of our citizens to liberate Poland. Poland is closer to here than your home is to New York. Yes, that's true, that's true. So it's all relative, so if... Well, it's a tiny little Lego Europe, I get it. If Maine got attacked, would you expect people in New York to help you? Poland has nothing to do with it. Well, hang on, if Maine got attacked, would you expect people in New York to help you? It's the same country. Okay. But you're actually... Kind of a big distinction. My country's quite large. We were part of Europe, the same continent. You were not part of... I call bullshit on that. Really? In 1940, you were not part of Europe. You don't think, well, of course we're all Europe. You were definitely not part of... We're on the continent of Europe. You are not on the continent, you're an island, dude.
1:33:49 Tucker Carlson? Off the continent, separated by a body of water. Do you know what it's called between you and France? It's called the English Channel. You are not part of Europe. That is not true. We are part of Europe. My ancestors lived here. You are not, you are England. We are part of Europe. France was considered exotic and crazy. That's where the prostitutes and the cheese eaters lived. It's only the brainwashing of Tony Blair and all these technocrats since have convinced you you're European. You're way better than European. You're an ancient Germanic Celtic people who ruled the world. Do you remember that in your wooden ships?
1:34:18 Tucker Carlson? Anyway, but the point is. The point.
1:34:23 Tucker Carlson? I'm serious. He did some crap sometimes. No, it's. Anyway. It's totally real. Come on. With the mass from Maine, White Pines. But the point is. Your country went to war to preserve human rights in another country you had nothing to do with. But human rights are evaporating in your own country and it's cool because you have soccer games with foreigners at them and good barata. Yeah. And I'm just saying maybe something about the heroic British spirit has been diminished with time. That's all I'm saying. There's a very lovely quaint notion being built up in the United States, driven by people like Tommy Robinson here. Who's Tommy Robinson? You know Tommy Robinson. He seems like a fraud to me. He's not even Tommy Robinson. His name's Stephen Yaxley. It's not even his real name. He's also convicted of multiple crimes, thuggery, fraud.
1:35:08 Tucker Carlson? I don't even know anything about him, but he doesn't seem like he's that into Britain. We would call him a little shit stirrer, right? However, he has. The real people here, the actual Britons. This idea that he's driven, that we're on the verge of some sort of civil war here. Do you feel that when you walk around? No, because that's my point. You're so passive. We're not passive. They take your human rights away and you're like, oh, defending Ukraine is so important. We're so proud to have defended Poland's territorial integrity 80 years ago. It's like, great. I'm so glad. I'm very proud of that. I, apparently. Yeah. But it's all a kind of displacement where you're taking your own frustrations with yourselves and your own cowardice. Sort of living in this Walter Mitty world like, no, actually, we're brave. We're going to defend Ukraine. It's like, what about defend yourselves against the monsters? What's wrong with defending Ukraine?
1:35:52 Tucker Carlson? It's like eighth on the list. Defend yourself. Defend your human rights. They can't put you in jail for saying naughty words. Sure. Period. I agree. So march on the Capitol. Get those people out. Scare them. Yeah. Do to them what you did to the Germans in Poland, which you would like to do to the Russians in Eastern Ukraine. We are a democratic society with a democratic government. How was it democratic? Nobody wants the invasion. If a government overreaches, and I think on free speech, they've lost the plot. If they do, they will get, I can guarantee you, voted out of. When was the last time Britain's voted for millions of foreigners to come to their country? Well, you don't. You vote for a government. You don't ever vote for that. So the biggest thing that's ever happened in your history, nobody voted for. People flag up what their policies are going to be.
1:36:38 Tucker Carlson? But actually, what has been is a systematic failure to control our borders going back, I would say, 25 years. That's really what's happened. Just, all I'm saying is it doesn't seem democratic. It doesn't seem that's what the people want at all. I agree. It's now become a massive issue. And the big issue, actually, is because they put a lot of these so-called asylum seekers, and many of them are not, the economic seekers. You want a better life here. I don't blame them. It's a great country to come to. But a lot of them are being put in really nice, quality hotels. And they're, while they're being processed, sometimes for two years, three years. They're living a very comfortable, luxurious life in neighborhoods where there is real abject poverty. And that is what is causing a lot of unrest. And I get that.
1:37:23 Tucker Carlson? And I have great sympathy with the people who live in those areas, who are really struggling to feed their kids. Who are seeing these people coming in on the boats illegally and being put in fancy hotels. That has to stop. And you also have to process these people a lot quicker, for their sake and for the country's. Are you a genuine asylum seeker? I never want this country to be a place that rejects genuine asylum seekers. Well, because actually, I believe that we have a duty to take care of people who are genuinely. How about your own people? What about fleeing war-torn countries where we started the war? Stop starting worse. You're doing it again. Okay, but one of us opposed the Iraq war at the time, and it wasn't you. I've been atoning for it ever since. I was one of the worst defenders. I led the campaign here against the Iraq war. Cost me my job in the end. I led the Good for you.
1:38:07 Tucker Carlson? I led a front page assault on that for a year. You should stick with that. You should stick with that. Well, likewise, I take a lot of, I like to look at each war in isolation. Well, I do. I get it. I get it. Pierce Morgan, I know you've got a job. You've been so gracious in defending your country. By the way, I meant to start with this. Until today, I had no idea that you appeared on Dancing With The Stars. I didn't. That's AI. Somebody tweeted the clip today with two friends of mine, Len Goodman, sadly no longer with us, Bruno Tonioli, ripping you a new one. Of course. For your dancing. I'm gonna, you are. I don't really think their attacks had much to do with my appearance. You are many things. I'm just suspecting.
1:38:49 Tucker Carlson? Well, you are many, well, I've got to be, there was a point, you didn't really do much dancing. And as Bruno put it, the problem started when you actually danced. You know, honestly. Has your dancing improved? My dancing is pretty good. I have a little trouble taking instruction, but you know, I would just say what they always say when the nude pictures of the porno tape emerge years later. I was young and I needed the money. Okay? Pierce Morgan, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for spending all this time. Welcome to my lovely country. Great to see you. It is, it is a lovely country. Actually, I just have to say that. Go and have a walk out there. Go and have a pint in the Devonshire. I'll take you to the next Arsenal game. You'll love it. Thank you.
1:39:30 Tucker Carlson? Christmas is back and so is our merchandise shop at TCN. Visit tuckercarlson.com to see what we have to offer and it's awesome. Everyone has a long list of people they need to shop for this Christmas. Our new line can help you brighten the day with gifts they will actually love, not the kind they're gonna throw away or thank you for but not mean it. Actually, good stuff that's great for everybody. Ornaments, wrapping paper, Christmas sweaters. For real. The TCN shop has everything you need. Dozens of new styles and designs perfect for the gift giving and spreading the Christmas spirit. That's tuckercarlson.com. We hope you have the very best Christmas.
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