Jean-Claude Romand: Lies that Led to Murder Pt. 1

For nearly two decades, Jean-Claude Romand convinced his family, friends, and colleagues that he was a respected World Health Organization researcher...while spending his days in cafes and rest stops, swindling loved ones out of their savings. And in January 1993, as the walls of his fabricated life finally closed in, Romand turned to violence rather than face exposure. This episode traces the childhood roots of his compulsive dishonesty through the eve of his ultimate crime. If you’re new here, don’t forget to follow Serial Killers & Murderous Minds to never miss a case! Want all 2 parts of every case all at once? Join Crime House+ and get both parts of each case dropped together on Monday ad-free. Join atcrimehouseplus.com http://crimehouseplus.com or if you’re listening on Apple Podcasts, tap “Try Free” at the top of this show’s page. Serial Killers & Murderous Minds is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios. 🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to other Crime House Originals Clues, Crimes Of Reddit, Murder True Crime Stories, Crime House 24/7, and more wherever you get your podcasts! Follow me on Social Instagram: @Crimehouse https://www.instagram.com/crimehouse/TikTok: @Crimehouse https://www.tiktok.com/@crimehouseFacebook: @crimehousestudios https://www.facebook.com/crimehousestudiosYouTube: @crimehousestudios https://www.youtube.com/@crimehousestudios

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Vanessa Richardson?

  Hi, everyone. Before today's episode, there's another show I want to tell you about. It's called What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Plus Connor's infectious energy that'll make you realize history is the most fascinating thing on earth. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  This is Crime House.

• 0:41Vanessa Richardson?

  Everyone lies, whether it's to spare someone's feelings or make ourselves look better. We all bend the truth at some point. But sometimes lying can be a dangerous game, especially when one lie snowballs into something much bigger. Then it's only a matter of time before the liar is exposed for who they really are. Jean-Claude Romand spent his entire life lying about his friends, schoolwork, career, and major accomplishments. When he realized the biggest lie he'd ever told was about to be exposed, he knew he had to get ahead of it. And the only solution he could think of was murder.

• 1:38Vanessa Richardson?

  The human mind is powerful. It shapes how we think, feel, love, and hate. But sometimes it drives people to commit the unthinkable. This is Serial Killers and Murderous Minds, a Crime House original. I'm Vanessa Richardson.

• 1:53Tristin Engels?

  And I'm forensic psychologist Dr. Tristin Engels. Every Monday and Thursday, we uncover the darkest minds in history, analyzing what makes a killer.

• 2:02Vanessa Richardson?

  Crime House exists because of listeners like you. Want even more? Join Crime House Plus and get both parts of every story dropped on the same Monday, completely ad-free. No waiting three days for part two, plus Crime House bonus episodes every month. To join, go to crimehouseplus.com. Or if you listen on Apple Podcasts, tap Try Free at the top of the Serial Killers and Murderous Minds page. And before we get started, be advised that this episode contains discussion of self-harm and the murder of adults and children. So please listen with care. Today, we begin our deep dive into Jean-Claude Romand, a man who spent nearly two decades pretending to be someone he wasn't.

• 2:46Vanessa Richardson?

  And when his biggest lie was finally about to be exposed, the only solution he could imagine was to murder his entire family.

• 2:55Tristin Engels?

  As Vanessa goes through the story, I'll be talking about things like how the lies adults tell can shape an impressionable child, why faking a violent attack can be a misguided cry for affection, and what the scope of a person's lies can tell us about their insecurities.

• 3:13Vanessa Richardson?

  And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a killer?

• 3:22Vanessa Richardson?

  If there was one thing Jean-Claude Romand learned early, it was how to lie. Jean-Claude was born in 1954 in France to Aimé and Anne-Marie Romand. The family had a long legacy as foresters, people who cared for and managed the forest where they lived. For generations, the Romaines had lived in the Jura Mountains, surrounded by nature and getting by on only what they needed. Jean-Claude was an only child, and he would stay that way. When he was just a few years old, his mother, Anne-Marie, had to have a hysterectomy after being hospitalized twice for ectopic pregnancies. That's a condition where a fertilized egg implants outside the uterus. It's actually extremely dangerous,

• 4:06Vanessa Richardson?

  and left untreated, it can be fatal. Aimé could have explained what Jean-Claude's mother was going through in a way a child would understand. Instead, he lied. He told his son that she was having her appendix removed. Between his mother's sudden absences and the word "hospital" whispered around him, Jean-Claude could sense he was being lied to, even if he was too young to know why, that his father didn't want to scare him or get into the intimate details of what was wrong with his mother. So Jean-Claude didn't buy the appendix story. Each time his mother was in the hospital, he convinced himself she'd actually died and that her death was being hidden from him.

• 4:48Tristin Engels?

  Jean-Claude is only a few years old, so even though he doesn't have the cognitive ability to fully understand what is going on, he can still sense that something is being withheld from him. Even at his age, children are very sensitive to their environment. As they say, children are like sponges. They notice and observe behavior, body language, tone of voice, and what you described, a mismatch between what he's being told and how the adults are behaving around him. So if he's being told, it's not a big deal, it's just an appendix, but whispering is happening around him, that's a mismatch. But by the sound of it, his father isn't lying to be malicious. He's lying perhaps because he felt he was being protective of Jean-Claude.

• 5:32Tristin Engels?

  But it's also likely that Aimé was not comfortable discussing this with Jean-Claude, especially given that era. And that alone could be teaching something to Jean-Claude. That said, parents often do lie to protect their children or they lie to protect their innocence. Examples being Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. None of that's inherently harmful by itself, but it may have been a moment when Jean-Claude learned that honesty can have exceptions or that lying's appropriate when you feel uncomfortable with something.

• 6:05Vanessa Richardson?

  Why do you think Jean-Claude would jump to such an extreme conclusion that his mother was actually dead?

• 6:11Tristin Engels?

  Because he's so young developmentally and because of that, children often think more concretely. They think in black and white or they tend to catastrophize because they don't have the cognitive flexibility or the knowledge to think of other explanations for that. So he had to fill what was missing with the limited information he had to him developmentally. And her death was unfortunately what he came up with.

• 6:38Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, when Anne-Marie returned home, Jean-Claude was relieved. His mother hadn't really died. But he'd absorbed a powerful lesson. His father had lied to him, so lying must be okay. And as Jean-Claude got a little older, he discovered there were different kinds of lies. Once, he asked his parents why he didn't have any brothers or sisters. He watched pain darken their faces and realized his question had hurt them. Jean-Claude already knew that his mother worried a lot and his question had just made it worse. Now she'd worry that he was suffering as an only child. It was an aha moment for the little boy. Lying was sometimes preferable to the truth, especially when the truth might hurt someone.

• 7:23Vanessa Richardson?

  And from then on, if something was bothering Jean-Claude, he knew it was best not to burden his parents with it. So Jean-Claude accepted that he'd never have siblings and maybe that he was destined to be alone. His family lived so deep in the mountains that his school had a total of three students. With options like that, making friends was nearly impossible. When Jean-Claude was around 10, his family moved to a bigger town and a bigger school. He still felt alone, though. He was first in his class and a full year ahead of other kids his age. But being held up as the model student didn't make finding friends any easier.

• 8:03Tristin Engels?

  Wow, so the first 10 years of his life, he was raised in a very rural town as an only child with only three other peers in his community to regularly socialize with. That's pretty significant. It means Jean-Claude had far fewer opportunities than most children to navigate peer groups and choose friendships or deal with different personalities or learn some of the social dynamics that would naturally come from being around more children his age. That's not to say he couldn't develop those skills, but at age 10, it makes sense that transitioning to a bigger town and a much bigger school would be difficult. That's a significant adjustment for any child, but he's also entering this environment a full year ahead academically.

• 8:49Tristin Engels?

  Excelling academically is obviously something adults tend to support and encourage, but among children, it can sometimes become a social barrier. If he's perceived as the teacher's favorite or the rule follower or the student that everyone else is being compared to, all of which can happen, then he can become resented. And if teachers are actually holding Jean-Claude up as the model student, as you say, or the example everyone else should follow, then that can unintentionally make it harder for him socially to fit in.

• 9:19Vanessa Richardson?

  What damage can be done when kids learn to compare themselves to one another?

• 9:23Tristin Engels?

  Well, comparison's not always bad. For example, a lot of people use comparisons for inspiration or to empower or even in healthy competition, especially when it comes to sports. It comes down to their perspective of it and how they feel when they see someone else doing well, especially in peer groups. That said, there are many risks of kids comparing themselves, but I think the one that's most relevant to this case is that it can shift the focus from learning and growth, aspiring to something or being inspired or being empowered, to focusing on status or perception, which can make the idea that status and perception is important and more socially relevant.

• 10:08Vanessa Richardson?

  Jean-Claude dealt with his loneliness in one of the only ways a kid his age could. He got a dog. Jean-Claude's new pet was his best and only friend, and he treated him more like a confidant than an animal. When he had a good day, he couldn't wait to run home and tell his dog all about it. And when he needed to get his darkest feelings off his chest, his dog listened in a way his parents never would. Then, one day, Jean-Claude came home from school to find that his dog wasn't there. He asked where the dog was, and his father claimed he'd run away. Jean-Claude wasn't so sure. He suspected his father had shot the dog and was lying to him about it. He had no proof, but he knew it in his gut.

• 10:53Vanessa Richardson?

  After all, he'd already learned that his family lied about important things. Jean-Claude had only ever confided his misery to his dog, so his parents had no idea how lonely he really was. And they were about to make it worse. As a teenager, Jean-Claude was sent by his parents to boarding school at the Lycée in Long Lausanne. It was only a half-hour drive from home. But there, Jean-Claude felt more isolated than ever. He had no friends, and he felt intimidated by the savvier boys who claimed to have stories about girls. So, by his own account, Jean-Claude invented an imaginary girlfriend. She wasn't a boast to impress the other boys.

• 11:36Vanessa Richardson?

  She was a private comfort.

• 11:39Tristin Engels?

  I think the imaginary girlfriend becomes more significant when we consider what you just told us about his dog. He didn't have any friends. His dog was his safe companion. And then, one day, without warning or an explanation that he felt he could trust, his dog was gone. So, it's possible that this imaginary girlfriend really was another safe companion and a comfort just for himself, created by himself. And this isn't particularly unusual. Imaginary companions can extend into adolescence. The research on this suggests that those who do create imaginary friends or imaginary companions create them because they're seeking companionship.

• 12:22Tristin Engels?

  They're seeking emotional regulation, a safe attachment, or identity exploration. But what I find interesting is when and potentially why Jean-Claude says he invented a girlfriend. It comes at an age when he's feeling intimidated by his peers' romantic and sexual experiences. So, social comparison can explain this, too. He's struggling to fit in, and he's surrounded by boys who seem to have an experience that he doesn't. So, if he's been excelling among them academically, then this was an area where he likely felt behind because he has not been able to excel socially. And that may have felt threatening somehow, and therefore could have been what prompted him to create this imaginary girlfriend.

• 13:05Tristin Engels?

  So, in that sense, it may have been for the purpose of identity or image.

• 13:12Vanessa Richardson?

  Even though Jean-Claude was still painfully lonely at boarding school, he excelled in his schoolwork. And the questions that followed him since childhood about truth and lies were still very much on his mind. For his most important exam during his senior year in 1971, he chose the topic, "Does Truth Exist?" He got an A minus. Seventeen-year-old Jean-Claude was thriving in subjects like philosophy, but his parents still expected him to eventually work in forestry, like every Romand before him. So, after high school, he started a prep class at Lycée du Parc in Lyon for the notoriously competitive forestry commission exam. But it wasn't entirely against his will. Jean-Claude loved the woods.

• 13:57Vanessa Richardson?

  He couldn't imagine a better way to make a living. That was before Lycée du Parc. While he was there, Jean-Claude ran up against the disdain of his classmates. They were the well-dressed sons of doctors and lawyers, and they looked down on forestry work. To them, a forest manager was just a low-level functionary who tramped around in the mud. It wasn't about money. Jean-Claude's father earned a good living. It was that forestry didn't carry the prestige of law or medicine. Jean-Claude was ashamed. He couldn't bear the thought of being less than, so he decided he'd become something more than a forester. Jean-Claude needed a way out of the Lycée du Parc, away from the classmates who looked down on him,

• 14:41Vanessa Richardson?

  and onto a more prestigious path. And by the fall of 1971, he found one. When he came home on break, he acted like he'd developed symptoms of recurring sinus infections. He convinced his parents that he was too sick to return to school, and they let him stay home for the rest of the school year. The Romands agreed that he could go back to Lycée du Parc, but the lie only partially worked. His parents insisted he enroll in correspondence courses, kind of like an early version of remote learning, where Jean-Claude completed assignments through the mail. Jean-Claude dutifully mailed in his assignments, even though the coursework bored him. One thing was clear now. Forestry wasn't his calling,

• 15:25Vanessa Richardson?

  and he'd made a decision about his future, one that would elevate his status and make sure he was never ridiculed again. He was going to become a doctor. To him, it was the profession that would make him academically and socially superior all at once. And although he didn't know it at the time, this one decision would turn his entire life into a lie.

• 15:55Speaker 03

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• 16:00Speaker 04

  Where you hear a courtroom term and think, wait, what does that actually mean?

• 16:04Speaker 03

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• 16:07Speaker 04

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• 16:10Speaker 03

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• 16:16Speaker 04

  No legal degree required, just curiosity. Find Criminally Online wherever you get your podcasts.

• 16:28Vanessa Richardson?

  In 1973, nineteen-year-old Jean-Claude Romand turned his back on the family forestry business for good. Instead, he set his sights on medicine and the status that came with it. There was just one issue. Jean-Claude was repulsed by sick people. He couldn't stand the thought of touching them, let alone caring for them. But he wanted that doctor in front of his name, so he'd just have to find a way around the problem. In the meantime, he enrolled as a first-year med student at the Lyon-North Faculty of Medicine. And even though he'd abandoned the family trade, his mom and dad were thrilled. Their son was going to be a doctor. In his first few weeks of classes, Jean-Claude reconnected with someone he knew,

• 17:12Vanessa Richardson?

  his distant cousin, Florence Crowlet. In fact, knowing Florence would be there was part of why he'd chosen Lyon in the first place. He'd been running into Florence at family reunions since he was a kid, and he'd had a crush on her for years. By his own account, he'd privately considered them all but engaged since he was 14. The wheels started turning in Jean-Claude's head. Sure, she was his cousin, but a distant cousin. And now, they were both adults, attending the same medical school. Maybe his childhood crush could become a real romance. Jean-Claude was determined to make that happen. He started visiting Florence at her apartment so often that she and her roommate started getting a little sick of him.

• 17:56Vanessa Richardson?

  But after a while, Jean-Claude grew on her. She led him elbow his way into her friend group, including a guy referred to as Luc Lamirale in Emmanuel Carrère's book, "The Adversary." He was Florence's best friend, and was quickly becoming Jean-Claude's best friend, too.

• 18:15Tristin Engels?

  This makes sense when you consider what we've been talking about with regard to his social development. He's had very little experience organically making new friends or meeting new people or expanding his social circle until he was 10. And even at that point, there were still barriers. Florence is familiar, and she has her own established social circle. She's a safe gateway for socializing, especially considering that she's also family. The fact that his relationship with Florence predates all of her current friendships may make him feel like this relationship with her is somehow more significant or legitimate, and that is somehow possibly making him feel superior or more confident and bold socially.

• 18:57Tristin Engels?

  And I wonder if that also helps explain some of his romantic fixation on her. She's familiar, she's nice to him. There's already a relationship there, and that may make him feel protected from rejection somehow. Even if she isn't reciprocating romantically because she's uninterested, she can't completely reject him because a familial relationship already exists. That may make it easier for him to remain persistent or ignore cues that he's imposing on her and her friends. But I think what's more important is that his persistence eventually pays off. Florence accepts him, her friends become his friends, and now persistence has been reinforced. And that's not necessarily a good lesson in this particular case

• 19:40Tristin Engels?

  because what he may be learning is that, if I keep trying long enough or using different manipulative tools, eventually I'll get the relationship I want, rather than learning to recognize reciprocity and what the other person genuinely wants.

• 19:56Vanessa Richardson?

  In May of 1975, Jean-Claude was closer to Florence than ever, but he wanted more. So he gathered his courage and told her he loved her. By then, Jean-Claude had won Florence over. She gave in to him, and the two started having sex. But just a couple of days later, she started having doubts. Final exams were coming up. It wasn't the time to get this involved with anyone. She told Jean-Claude how she felt, and he didn't take it well. Jean-Claude spiraled. It was the end of his second year of medical school, and he couldn't pull himself together for finals. All he could think about was Florence, all day, every day. He ended up missing one of his exams entirely.

• 20:40Vanessa Richardson?

  It wasn't a total catastrophe. He was able to reschedule the test for September, but Jean-Claude still felt lost without Florence. He had to find a way to win her back. And one night that summer, while she was out of town, he thought he'd found it. Jean-Claude went to a nightclub with the friends he and Florence shared. He announced he was running out to his car for cigarettes, he'd be back in a few minutes. But Jean-Claude didn't come back for hours, and when he finally did, he was bloody and bruised, his shirt torn. His friends rushed over in a panic, demanding to know what happened. In reality, Jean-Claude had done this to himself, all for sympathy, but of course, that's not what he told his friends.

• 21:25Vanessa Richardson?

  He said that when he went out for his cigarettes, a group of strangers jumped him at gunpoint. They took his keys and forced him into his own trunk. Then they drove a good 30 miles before pulling over and dragging him out of the trunk. They beat him on the side of the road, then ran off, leaving him with his keys and his car. He'd driven himself back to the club as best he could. Jean-Claude watched as his friends reacted with amazement and sympathy. They told him he should call the police. He assured them he would at some point. Sure, he'd had to hurt himself to sell it, but to Jean-Claude, it was worth it, because soon the story would make its way to Florence, and she'd feel so bad, she'd come running

• 22:09Vanessa Richardson?

  back into his arms.

• 22:11Tristin Engels?

  And here's where the lie comes in. He learned when he was younger that honesty came with exceptions, like we talked about, but those exceptions were intended to protect other people, not harm them. And I think he may have learned something else from his mother's times in the hospital and watching how people responded to it, and perhaps even more so now that he's studying medicine. It's possible he learned that suffering or being a victim changes how people respond to you. When someone we care about is sick, hurt, or in danger, we're likely going to be concerned. We're likely going to provide them comfort or protect them, nurture them, sympathize with them, or want to be physically near them. And Jean-Claude appears to understand that, likely, again, from when he was younger,

• 22:56Tristin Engels?

  definitely when he feigned having sinus problems and was pulled out of school, and even more so now that he's studying medicine. But now he's learned how to weaponize it. Florence rejected him, and rather than accepting that rejection, he's trying to change the outcome by eliciting sympathy or concern and guilt from her. And that's incredibly manipulative. He's essentially trying to turn her compassion into leverage.

• 23:24Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, we understand that he really wants Florence's attention here, but besides Florence, why is it important to Jean-Claude that his friends feel bad for him?

• 23:32Tristin Engels?

  Well, they're central, first of all, to making sure Florence hears about what happened to him. Jean-Claude needs their reactions, because now he has witnesses who can recant the story to Florence, make it seem more credible, and potentially even encourage her or influence her to check on him. Peer influence can be powerful, especially within a shared friend group. But there's another benefit that he's getting from this. Jean-Claude has had a difficult time making friends, like we talked about, and he made these friends through Florence. Now that they've broken up, that could potentially threaten his friendships with them as well.

• 24:12Tristin Engels?

  So he tells them this story, they see him bloodied up, and suddenly, they're all focused on him. They're shocked, concerned, asking questions, telling him to go to the police, and now he feels important, he feels cared about within this group, he feels reconnected to them as well. So if Jean-Claude feels like he matters to them, then he can potentially help reinforce the idea that he should still matter to Florence, too. He's now reinforced his friendships with them, and they can help bring him back to her and potentially reunite them romantically.

• 24:46Vanessa Richardson?

  Now, it's not clear if Florence ever even heard the story, but one thing is clear: his plan didn't work. She still didn't want to date him. Jean-Claude couldn't think about anything but Florence for the rest of the summer, and when the time came for his makeup exam in September of 1975, he missed that one, too. Soon, it was official. Jean-Claude had failed the exam he never showed up for. But he wasn't about to tell his parents or his friends that, so he lied. He told everyone he'd passed and been accepted into his third year of medical school. Then, he quietly re-enrolled as a second-year student, which he was allowed to do.

• 25:30Vanessa Richardson?

  But for the next three months, he locked himself in his apartment. He didn't go to class, and he didn't see friends. He spent most days in bed staring at the ceiling. He ate food straight out of the can. He let trash pile up around him. Right before Christmas, Luke realized he hadn't seen Jean-Claude in a while, and he was worried, so he went to check on him. Jean-Claude agreed to go for a drive. He may have been tempted to come clean, to admit he was so torn up over Florence that he'd torpedoed his own life, but whatever went through his mind as he watched his friend behind the wheel, the truth stayed buried. Instead, he told Luke he had cancer.

• 26:11Vanessa Richardson?

  Jean-Claude figured if he was going to fake cancer, he'd better pick the right kind. He knew lymphoma wasn't necessarily fatal. People who have it can live seemingly normal lives for years. Once Jean-Claude saw how easily Luke believed him, he decided to milk it. He asked Luke not to tell Florence, knowing he wouldn't listen, and Jean-Claude was right. Sure enough, Florence heard about his illness, and whether it was sympathy or something else, she let him back into her life. Jean-Claude finally returned to school. He was still only registered as a second-year med student, but he took third-year classes and read the advanced textbooks, as though he'd never failed that entrance exam at all.

• 26:56Vanessa Richardson?

  None of Jean-Claude's friends or family knew the truth. He wasn't actually progressing through medical school. He was just making it look that way. And here's the strange part. Jean-Claude did all the work it took to become a doctor, but every year, when exams rolled around, he just didn't show up. Then he'd tell everyone he passed and re-register as a second-year med student all over again. Not even Florence knew. They studied together, exchanged notes, and the whole time, Jean-Claude kept the facade going. Florence fell in love with Jean-Claude all over again. He asked her to marry him in 1977, and she said yes.

• 27:38Vanessa Richardson?

  Three years later, they got married at her family's home near Anse in front of 150 guests. Jean-Claude finally had the woman he'd been pining for, the same woman whose rejection had sent his life off the rails in the first place. But even with Florence back in his life, Jean-Claude never set the record straight about his schooling. He kept moving through medical school as if he were progressing, year after year, on his way to becoming a real doctor. Except, he wasn't. A few things helped him keep the lie alive for years. For one, the school let him re-register as a second-year student over and over. Each fall, it sent him the same form letter barring him from the third-year exam, but

• 28:23Vanessa Richardson?

  for more than a decade, no one tried to stop him from re-enrolling. And since he was still registered, he always had a student ID. He could sit in on lectures, use the library, and read the same textbooks as his peers. He acted like he belonged, and almost no one questioned it. By now, Jean-Claude had given up on actually becoming a doctor, but he was determined to keep playing the part. In 1981, the year he should have graduated, Jean-Claude simply told everyone that he passed his medical boards, and he added one quiet detail. He let Florence believe he'd ranked fifth on the exam in all of Paris. He never bragged about it publicly, which only made it more convincing.

• 29:08Vanessa Richardson?

  Then, in the early 1980s, came his most dramatic announcement of all. Jean-Claude told Florence, his family, and his friends that he'd landed a prestigious job as a research scientist with the World Health Organization in Geneva, Switzerland.

• 29:25Tristin Engels?

  Jean-Claude's lying has really escalated. Initially, his lies seemed to solve immediate problems like wanting Florence back. But now, the lie is becoming about who he is. Because otherwise, he would have just admitted to the failed exams or changed careers. But he apparently needs that prestige and status. And not just any status, the status of someone who ranks fifth in all of Paris. He doesn't just find employment. He becomes a research scientist at the World Health Organization. The fabricated version of Jean-Claude that he's now created, he's now putting out there, is an exceptional version. And I think that takes us back to what we were talking about earlier.

• 30:09Tristin Engels?

  Jean-Claude grew up excelling academically and being ahead of his peers. That was one domain where he knew how to be successful and where he received recognition. But as he got older, and especially when you pursue higher education, academia is more demanding. And I think that's why Jean-Claude intentionally does not take his exams. He knows that he might fail. So as long as he doesn't sit for those exams, he never gets to truly test if he's actually exceptional or not. This way, he can live in his own fantasy of possibility. Lying allows him to be the successful version of himself.

• 30:48Vanessa Richardson?

  Do you think it's possible that Jean-Claude just enjoys the challenge of pulling off a bigger and bigger lie?

• 30:54Tristin Engels?

  It's possible. He's definitely becoming more successful at it because no one so far has noticed that he hurt himself when he actually didn't, or he faked lymphoma. And they're not questioning his lack of progress in medical school or seeking proof of his employment at the World Health Organization. Every time someone believes him, he gets what he wants, and he learns that he can pull this off. So regardless how he started off with his deception, whether it was just to truly just get Florence back, eventually, there could be something rewarding about realizing just how effectively he can control what other people believe about him.

• 31:35Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, Jean-Claude knew a lie this big was going to take some serious commitment. First, he told Florence they needed to move closer to the French-Swiss border so he could get to Geneva more easily. Then, he sold the studio apartment in Lyon his parents had bought him and kept all 300,000 francs, money he could pass off as income from his new job. He also helped himself to money from his parents' savings account, one they'd let him keep access to even as a grown man. They'd always trusted Jean-Claude, probably a little too much. But money alone wouldn't sell the lie. Jean-Claude needed a believable routine. So every morning, he drove into Geneva,

• 32:16Vanessa Richardson?

  walked into the WHO building, and got himself a visitor's pass. The pass gave him access to the building's ground floor, the library, the conference rooms. He'd grab letterhead, company memos, anything that made the story more convincing. Sometimes, he'd use the WHO's on-site post office. Other times, he'd make withdrawals at their bank. All of it created a paper trail, the kind an actual employee would leave behind. After touching base at the WHO offices, Jean-Claude headed to a local café to read magazines or scientific journals. Then, he got back in his car and drove to a rest stop for lunch and a nap. Once enough hours had passed to look like a full workday, he drove home.

• 33:01Vanessa Richardson?

  Florence had no idea what her husband was really doing all day. She worked part-time at a pharmacy, and the two of them were trying to start a family. She had plenty on her mind, and it never would have occurred to her that her husband's job didn't exist. Jean-Claude and Florence welcomed their first child in 1985, a daughter named Caroline. It was a joyful occasion. But privately, for Jean-Claude, it was also a sobering one. A child meant he'd need real money, more than the dwindling reserve from his parents' savings and the Lyon apartment sale. He couldn't get a job because as far as everyone around him knew, he already had one. So he had to get creative.

• 33:44Vanessa Richardson?

  Jean-Claude realized he could use his made-up WHO position to swindle people out of their money. And he figured the best place to start was his own family. He told his parents and his uncle Claude that as an international official at the WHO, he had exclusive access to high-interest Swiss investment accounts, ones that could yield 18% a year. His family was impressed. They eagerly handed over tens of thousands of francs from their life savings for Jean-Claude to invest. He kept the money for himself and started living more comfortably than ever, taking his family on vacations. By the time his son Antoine was born in 1987,

• 34:28Vanessa Richardson?

  Jean-Claude was in a very different place than he'd been just two years earlier. Now, he was rich. But it was all built on lies. And Jean-Claude knew the scheme couldn't last forever. And soon, the very lies that got him here would make him desperate enough to kill.

• 34:53Speaker 05

  Everyone's told a lie. But what happens when one lie becomes a life, a movement, a conspiracy? I'm Josh Dean, host of Chameleon, and I uncover true stories of deception scams so intimate and convincing they fooled the people closest to them. These aren't strangers. They're lovers, friends, and trusted allies. Because the most dangerous cons don't feel like crimes. They feel personal. Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.

• 35:26Vanessa Richardson?

  By 1987, 33-year-old Jean-Claude Roman was pretending to work at the World Health Organization in Geneva, all while scamming his own family out of their life savings. And no one had a clue, which only allowed Jean-Claude to keep swindling with no regrets and almost no consequences. That same year, Jean-Claude's father-in-law, Pierre Crolet, retired and received a whopping bonus of 400,000 francs. That's about $180,000 today. But Jean-Claude was too savvy to simply ask for the money. Instead, he likely planted the idea with Florence. She mentioned it to her mother, who suggested it to Pierre,

• 36:08Vanessa Richardson?

  all so it would look like Pierre had come to Jean-Claude first. Pierre asked Jean-Claude to invest 378,000 of his 400,000 francs. Jean-Claude said yes and assured Pierre the money was in good hands. But in the fall of 1988, Pierre asked Jean-Claude if he could withdraw some of the money to buy himself a Mercedes. Jean-Claude didn't have a good answer. He couldn't say yes, he'd already spent the money. And he couldn't say no. Pierre would want to know why. To this day, the full truth of what happened next remains a mystery. A few weeks later, on October 23, 1988, Pierre was at home. The only other person in the house was Jean-Claude.

• 36:52Vanessa Richardson?

  At some point, Pierre fell down the stairs. Jean-Claude called the paramedics, but Pierre died before they arrived. Jean-Claude was never charged in Pierre's death. And at the time, no one in the family suspected him. In fact, in the weeks after Pierre's fall, Jean-Claude only endeared himself to Florence's family more. He stepped into the role of family patriarch, handling the arrangements and managing the details so everyone else had space to grieve. Having seen how dependable Jean-Claude was, Florence's mother trusted him more than ever. When she sold her house, she handed him the proceeds, 1.3 million francs, to invest for her.

• 37:37Tristin Engels?

  So we don't know if Jean-Claude truly did have anything to do with Pierre's death. But there are several potential motivations for Jean-Claude's helpfulness following his death. The obvious being, if he did have something to do with Pierre's death, then being the attentive, grieving son-in-law could potentially help manage suspicion, even though there doesn't seem to be any directed at him presently. But there's another explanation. Pierre's death made his mother-in-law vulnerable, both emotionally and financially. And Jean-Claude made himself indispensable. He's there to help her, guide her, and presumably, take care of things at a time when she's grieving.

• 38:21Tristin Engels?

  She's also making major financial decisions for the first time alone. And then, she gives him 1.3 million francs to invest. Would she have done that if her husband was alive? Did she manage any of the finances when Pierre was alive? She may have also been unsure of what to do or how to navigate this in her grief, especially for that time. And we do know that Jean-Claude is good at exploiting certain emotions to his advantage.

• 38:51Vanessa Richardson?

  We know Jean-Claude spent so much of his life feeling isolated, his childhood and growing up. In some strange way, do you think it was comforting for him to finally feel useful, even needed?

• 39:02Tristin Engels?

  That's very possible, especially in this role. His mother-in-law is grieving, she's overwhelmed, and he's the successful son-in-law, the exceptional son-in-law, who can step in, take care of things, manage the finances, and tell her everything's going to be okay. He gets to experience himself as that indispensable savior. But this is heartbreaking because she believes that she's depending on her successful physician, son-in-law who understands these investments and has her best interests at heart. Jean-Claude knows that isn't what's happening. He may genuinely feel good about this, but he's harming her in the process.

• 39:39Vanessa Richardson?

  Jean-Claude was stepping up for the Crowlais's after Pierre's death, but at the same time, he kept preying on them, and he was about to hit a new low. Jean-Claude approached Pierre's sister, Florence's aunt, whose husband was suffering from terminal cancer. He told her that he and his supervisor at the WHO were in the final stages of developing a treatment, one that could stop her husband's cancer and possibly even reverse it. Of course, she was interested. And once Jean-Claude knew he had her hooked, he explained he could get them one or two doses, but the price would be steep. The couple hesitated at first, but over the following months, they handed Jean-Claude a total of 60,000 francs

• 40:23Vanessa Richardson?

  for the experimental cure. In exchange, Jean-Claude gave the couple several capsules. They had no way of knowing the pills were likely placebos. And of course, the "treatment" didn't do anything Jean-Claude said it would. The uncle died a year later, 60,000 francs poorer.

• 40:43Tristin Engels?

  Now Jean-Claude is exploiting hope and fear in someone's medical crisis. And not just someone, it's again, another family member. That puts them in an incredibly vulnerable position, and they're already in a vulnerable position. When someone you love is seriously ill and conventional treatments aren't working, or options are limited, people do tend to become understandably motivated to pursue anything that might help. And they turn to all kinds of alternative treatments in desperation. So this really showcases Jean-Claude's capacity for exploitation and moral disengagement. He's able to psychologically distance himself from his crimes.

• 41:25Tristin Engels?

  Often, that's done by minimizing the harm, avoiding thinking about any consequences that can result from it, or focusing on his own objective. Whatever it is that he's doing, it's working for him. And I think there's an escalation here, too. Jean-Claude's fake identity initially served to make him look successful and hide his failure in medical school, but now he's using it to actively exploit other people. And it's all seemingly people that he already has established relationships with. He's leveraging the implicit trust that comes from being a family member, also a physician, and the prestige of allegedly working for the World Health Organization to exploit them.

• 42:09Vanessa Richardson?

  While Jean-Claude squeezed money out of his relatives, he kept building the life and status he'd always wanted. In 1989, he moved Florence and the kids into a big rented farmhouse. In the years that followed, he treated himself to a Range Rover, then a BMW. Jean-Claude's appetite for deception kept growing. And the following year, it spread beyond money into his marriage. In the spring of 1990, Jean-Claude reached out to a family friend, the adversary calls Corinne Orton, who lived in Paris. Corinne had recently separated from her husband. Jean-Claude invited her to dinner the next time he was in Paris for "work," and she accepted. The two

• 42:53Vanessa Richardson?

  had a lovely evening and agreed to do it again soon. But at their second dinner, Jean-Claude told Corinne he was in love with her. She didn't feel the same way. She valued their friendship, and she believed it was a friendship without any ulterior motive. She gently turned him down. And just as he'd done with Florence all those years ago, Jean-Claude wore Corinne down. He visited her in Paris every week, telling both women he had to be there for experimental work at the Institut Pasteur. He treated Corinne to dinners at fine restaurants, put himself up in luxury hotels, and bought her an emerald ring. He even tried to impress her by name dropping powerful

• 43:35Vanessa Richardson?

  friends he pretended to have, like Dr. Bernard Coucheiner, the co-founder of Doctors Without Borders. Eventually, Corinne gave in, and the two began sleeping together. Jean-Claude and Corinne carried on their affair, on and off, until she ended it for good. Even then, Corinne kept trusting him. She thought of him like a big brother, and that trust was about to cost her. In late 1991, Corinne received 900,000 francs from the sale of an office she'd shared with her ex-husband. She asked Jean-Claude how she should invest it. His eyes lit up. He fed her the same line he'd given his family. He could put the money in a special account he had access to through

• 44:20Vanessa Richardson?

  work. She agreed and handed it all over. By late 1992, Corinne started to worry about her money. She asked for it back. Of course, Jean-Claude had already spent it all, so he promised he'd return it over dinner in the new year. And now, Jean-Claude had an even bigger problem. The money was gone, and he'd already bled everyone close to him dry. For years, he'd been mildly worried about getting caught, but he'd never panicked. This time was different. He could feel the walls closing in. And it was only about to get worse. Just before Christmas of 1992, the lie began to crack. One Sunday after Mass, Luc

• 45:05Vanessa Richardson?

  mentioned to Florence, in passing, that Jean-Claude had lied to her about a vote at their children's school. It was a small thing, but Luc watched her face fall as she repeated, almost to herself, "He lied to me." The next day, another parent asked Florence whether Carolyn and Antoine would be at the WHO's holiday party, the one for employees' kids. Florence turned pale. And around the same time, the president of the school board went looking for Jean-Claude's office number. He couldn't find him in the WHO directory, or in the international pension database. Eventually, he mentioned it to Florence. She promised to ask her husband about it. Whether

• 45:47Vanessa Richardson?

  she ever did, no one knows. Jean-Claude insists she didn't. He had explanations ready, though. He'd always told Florence he didn't let the children attend those kinds of employee perks on principle. But he could feel the net tightening. People around town were talking about him. Something in the way Florence looked at him had changed. He was scared.

• 46:11Tristin Engels?

  This is probably a very different experience for Jean-Claude, because for years, he's been the one controlling the information. Almost everything people know about his career, his alleged career, his alleged accomplishments and these investments has come from him. And now people are starting to get information from other sources, and they're comparing notes. They're checking directories. They're asking Florence questions that Jean-Claude hasn't anticipated. So he's likely, by what you've described, becoming hyper vigilant, and he's watching Florence for any indication that she's suspecting something. And some of that fear is completely justified and reality-based. People really are getting closer to the truth. But when

• 46:55Tristin Engels?

  you're already anticipating being exposed, it's easy to read into behaviors. Maybe Florence really is looking at him differently, or maybe Jean-Claude is so afraid that she is suspicious, that he's interpreting everything through that fear. And he can't just ask her either. That's the trap that he's kind of created for himself. Because asking, "Do you know if I'm lying here?" obviously exposes him, which is what he's trying to avoid. He's got to be very uncomfortable and very anxious right now.

• 47:29Vanessa Richardson?

  Do you think, deep down, Jean-Claude maybe is still motivated by the first lesson he ever learned about lying, that it protects people from getting hurt? Do you think he actually cares about protecting Florence?

• 47:39Tristin Engels?

  This is what's complicated, because he may genuinely care, and he may genuinely love her. According to what you shared about him, he's allegedly loved her since he was 14 years old. But at some point, we still have to start asking, who's he really protecting with this behavior? The actions he took to become romantically involved with her to begin with were arguably manipulative. He's been harming their family. They're related, and they're married. The consequences of his actions will have a ripple effect on Florence and their children, too. So if protecting her were truly important and paramount to him, then all of this would have mattered then, and it would absolutely matter now.

• 48:26Vanessa Richardson?

  The pressure on Jean-Claude was about to get even worse. On January 4th, 1993, his mother called with troubling news. She'd just received a bank statement. Her savings account, the one Jean-Claude had access to, was overdrawn by 40,000 francs. Jean-Claude promised he'd take care of it and hung up. But Jean-Claude knew it was over. Soon, his whole family would learn the truth. His entire life was a lie. And he'd funded that lie with their money, money that was now gone. Jean-Claude couldn't bear the thought of his wife, and especially his children, seeing him for what he really was. He had to put an end to this.

• 49:10Vanessa Richardson?

  But he still wasn't willing to come clean. Instead, Jean-Claude decided to do something he could never take back. On Wednesday, January 6th, 1993, Jean-Claude drove to a gun shop and bought a stun wand, two tear gas canisters, a box of cartridges, and a silencer for a 22 caliber rifle. Two days later, he stopped by his local pharmacy, where a friend of his worked behind the counter. He picked up the barbiturates he'd ordered earlier that week, supposedly for his lab research. His friend didn't question it. Jean-Claude was as ready as he'd ever be. On Friday night, January 8th, he spent a quiet evening at home with his wife and children.

• 49:55Vanessa Richardson?

  He watched Caroline and Antoine draw pictures for a gift they were giving a friend. Then he put them to bed. Jean-Claude went back downstairs and joined Florence in the living room. She'd just hung up from a difficult phone call with her mother, and she was crying. Jean-Claude sat down beside her and took her in his arms. He would later say that this was the last image he had, sitting on the couch, trying to comfort his wife. But then, he reminded himself why he was doing this. Florence might already suspect he was a fraud. He owed money to everyone close to him. And soon, his children would learn the truth about their father, the one thing he could never allow. Jean-Claude didn't want to go through

• 50:40Vanessa Richardson?

  with what he'd planned for the next morning, but he believed he had no choice. In his mind, the only way out, the only way to spare his family from what he was sure would be unbearable pain, was to kill. Not himself, but everyone who had ever loved him believed in him and tried to help him. They all had to die.

• 51:20Vanessa Richardson?

  Thanks so much for listening. Come back next time for the conclusion of our deep dive on Jean-Claude Romand.

• 51:26Tristin Engels?

  Serial Killers and Murderous Minds is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on all social media at @CrimeHouse. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow Serial Killers and Murderous Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference.

• 51:48Vanessa Richardson?

  And to enhance your listening experience, join Crime House Plus and get both parts of every story dropped on the same Monday, completely ad-free. No waiting three days for part two, plus Crime House bonus episodes every month. To join, go to crimehouseplus.com. Or if you listen on Apple Podcasts, tap "Try Free" at the top of the Serial Killers and Murderous Minds page.

• 52:13Vanessa Richardson?

  Serial Killers and Murderous Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, and forensic psychologist Dr. Tristin Engels, and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Serial Killers and Murderous Minds team: Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Lori Marinelli, Natalie Pritzowski, Sarah Kamp, Alyssa Fox, Mara De La Rosa, Claire Swartzlander, Sarah Bachelor, and Carrie Murphy. Thank you for listening.

• 52:48Vanessa Richardson?

  If you're looking for your next podcast, check out What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.