Moment 149: Why You Are Easily Distracted & How To FIX it! Nir Eyal

In this moment, behaviour and habit design expert, Nir Eyal discusses how to beat procrastination and distraction. One of the first major steps is being able to master the internal triggers that are trying to pull your attention away. Nir believes that to do this you need to try and understand the underlying feelings behind these urge. As he says, time management is pain management, and all human behaviour is about trying to escape discomfort. Nir says that finding these underlying feelings can be achieved by writing down the sensations you feel just before distraction, this allows you identify them and then reframe them to your advantage. Because, if you don’t master these internal triggers, they become your master. Another major step to beat procrastination is by actually scheduling time to be distracted. Nir calls this ‘The 10 Minute Rule’, which allows you to give in to any distraction in your scheduled time, but only for 10 minutes! Listen to the full episode here - https://g2ul0.app.link/osVkcTMLbHb Watch the Episodes On Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/%20TheDiaryOfACEO/videos Nir: https://www.nirandfar.com https://www.instagram.com/neyal99/?hl=en Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Steven Bartlett?

  One of the things this podcast has taught me from speaking to all these people across multiple fields is that sometimes we can feel like our body, our wiring is against us, especially as it relates to health, right? So, you know, we know sugar is bad. So why does our brain send us these cravings to go and eat sugar? And in the case of distractions and sort of behavioral psychology, I know instinctively and intuitively that distractions like hanging out on TikTok for an hour is bad, but my brain is doing it. What does that tell us about how we should go about adopting behavior change?

• 0:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that's why it's really about this holistic model. So that's what took me the most time to figure out was what are the four mandatory components of living without regret, of doing what you say you're going to do? So the first step is mastering these internal triggers, figuring out why you feel this way, right? What is that underlying sensation? So if you're trying to avoid that chocolate bar, it might be hunger or it might not be hunger, right? So I used to be clinically obese and I'll tell you what, I did not eat to excess because I was hungry. I was eating to excess because I was lonely. I was eating to excess because I was bored. I was eating to excess because I felt guilty about how much I had just eaten. It wasn't just about the hunger, right? Very few people who are obese are just hungry all the time.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  That's not what's going on. It's because we're eating our feelings. That's what's happening. So that's the first step. We have to understand the deeper reason.

• 1:33Steven Bartlett?

  How did you understand that?

• 1:35Speaker 01

  A lot of work, a lot of figuring out stuff in my life to help me understand that. And I think actually that's where my fascination with what I do today in terms of, it's the same exact reason that we would overdo our use of technology. It's not the technology's fault, guys. I hate to tell you this. I wish I could blame Zuckerberg and TikTok, but these are just tools, right? And then before those, there were other tools. It was, they used to call our generation couch potatoes. And before that, it was the radio was the moral panic. And before that, it was comic books. There's always some moral panic around, oh, this is melting our brains because we don't want to face the facts that we are looking for escape from. These internal triggers, right? Time management is pain management. All human behavior is driven by a desire to escape discomfort.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  So when you realize that, that, you know what? I was just unable to deal with these sensations in a, in a healthful way that moved me towards traction. I was trying to escape them with distraction. It's not until you understand what sensations you're trying to escape from that you can deal with them. If you can't sit around the table with a friend without looking at your phone every three minutes, it's not the phone. It's your inability to deal with the discomfort of maybe having silence or boredom or whatever else is going on in your life. So that has to be the first step. It's not the only step, but that's the first step.

• 2:50Steven Bartlett?

  I'm really compelled by, really interested in how you figured out the thing you were trying to escape from, because I think that's the starting point, which is a very difficult starting point for most people. They conceive the sort of compulsive behavior that's maybe making them live outside of their values or causing them to excessively eat or excessively watch porn or whatever it might be. But diagnosing the root cause of that is a difficult thing to do. Most of us don't know what we don't know.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:15Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  It isn't, it isn't. I mean, I'm not, you don't have to go to therapy. No, there's anything wrong with it. If it's helpful, please do it. But that's not a requirement. Something as simple as, you know, so whenever I work, I have on my desk, I have a little post-it note and a pen handy. And when I get distracted or when I even feel the sense of distraction, just noting down, down that sensation, just writing down, what is it that I felt right before the distraction? So I write every day and all I want to do when I write, you know this, right? When you write, all you want to do is go Google something or do some research or go check email for a quick sec or let me just find that one thing that might be. And they're all distractions.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  They're all taking you away from the core thing you need to do, which you said you would do, which is right. And so if I can just pause for a second and reflect on what was that sensation that I was feeling right before? It was boredom. It was anxiety. It was fearfulness. It was uncertainty. Just writing it down is an incredible first step towards gaining power over that discomfort, because then you can start to identify it. And so what I'll do many times is just pause to reflect on, wait a minute, what, what's going on there, right? What, what is that sensation? Because then you can begin to do what's called reframing the trigger. So now, when I feel the sensation of wanting to get distracted, I say, you know what? What's going on here? Okay, I'm feeling this sensation. Because I'm stressed. Why am I stressed? Because this is really important to me.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  I want to get this right for my readers and for myself. And so reframing it as not a negative, but something that happens not to me, but for me, that that sensation is a sign that I can listen to. I think most of us, we think when we feel this discomfort, that's happening to us, right? But it's not. It's happening for us. It's a signal for us to listen to. Now, how we interpret it is up to us. And that's where the magic happens. If you interpret it as something that is harmful, is dangerous, that you need to escape, right? You don't want to feel that uncomfortable sensation. You look for distraction. But what we find is that high performers across every field, when you think about the arts, when you think about sports, business, high performers, when they feel those internal triggers, they experience the same internal triggers the rest of us do.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  They experience loneliness and stress and anxiety, just like everyone else does. But they deal with it by using it as rocket fuel to push them towards traction. Whereas distractible people, as soon as they feel that discomfort, they try and escape it with distraction. That's the big difference.

• 5:41Steven Bartlett?

  That's one of the things that you said to me when we spoke last time that really has had a profound impact on my life, specifically around the area of procrastination. You said about that, which is like taking a moment to pause and ask yourself what the, which psychological discomfort you're trying to escape from in the moment? And then that second step. So now I'm clear. I'm trying not to do this book because this particular chapter, I just don't feel that competent on. I don't feel like I've researched it. It's making my brain feel a bit hot thinking about it. I reframe it and go, okay, so I've understood it now. Then what do I do?

• 6:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. So step one is

• 6:18Steven Bartlett?

  Understand it.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Is, yeah, is, uh, master those internal triggers.

• 6:22Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Or they become your master.

• 6:23Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  That's step number one. There's a bunch of techniques. We're just covering the surface. There's over a dozen different techniques that you can use to help you master those internal triggers. Now, the second step is to make time for traction.

• 6:32Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  So when you have those doubts, one of these techniques that is really life-changing is scheduling time for worry.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Scheduling time for worry. That what happens is in the moment, we feel these feelings, we think these thoughts, and a distractible person will say, "Well, I gotta deal with that sensation right now. I have to, I have to work through whatever it is that I'm feeling right now." And they stop everything to do that. And that's not the right method. The right method is to write down that sensation and get back to the task at hand as quickly as possible, using these, these four strategies. Then later on, right now that you've written down what that sensation is, you're going to make time in your calendar to think about that sensation. Start processing it.

• 7:19Steven Bartlett?

  Using the book example, I've hit chapter 12 and I just, I'm struggling with this chapter.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Right. So. So you, step number one, you have these tools.

• 7:26Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  Like, let me, maybe I can digress for a second. I'll tell you my favorite tool for mastering internal triggers. It's called the 10-minute rule. This comes from acceptance and commitment therapy. And the 10-minute rule says that you can give in to any distraction, any distraction. Maybe it's smoking that cigarette if you're trying to quit. Maybe it's eating that piece of chocolate cake if you're on a diet. Maybe it's checking social media, whatever it is, whatever distraction, you can give in to that distraction, but not right now. You can give in in 10 minutes. Don't misunderstand, not for 10 minutes. Sometimes people get it wrong. It's in 10 minutes. Okay? So what does that do? What that does is we talked about psychological reactants earlier, and you asked, how do you, what do you do about psychological reactants? You're allowing yourself to acknowledge that you are in control. That you decide.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  What many people do is they have strict abstinence, right? Strict abstinence says, "No, I will not do it." Right? "I won't eat sugar. I, I won't get distracted. I will do this, I will do that." As opposed to saying, "Hey, I'm an adult. I can do whatever I want. I choose not to go off track for the next 10 minutes." That's it. In 10 minutes, I can give in to whatever I want. So now I'm in control. You know, the, the whole just say no technique turns out, makes you ruminate and think about and have more discomfort around the thing you want, increasing these internal triggers. And that actually is what makes you give in to that distraction. We know that with smoking, actually, it's very interesting. We're finding that nicotine is less and less part of the, the reason people get addicted to cigarettes. It's more about the rumination around, "I, I, I wanna smoke, but I can't. I wanna smoke, but I shouldn't.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  I wanna smoke, I wanna smoke, I wanna smoke. Fine, I'll finally smoke." Now I get relief. How do we know this? If you ask smokers, why do they smoke? The number one reason? It's relaxing. That makes no sense. Nicotine is a stimulant. Makes no sense, right? Why would it be relaxing? It's relaxing because finally, I can stop telling myself, I don't have to do it anymore. I don't have to fight with myself anymore. And that eases that psychological reactance. Ha, I can finally give in. So when you use this 10-minute rule and say, okay, I can give in to that distraction in 10 minutes from now, what you're doing is you're establishing agency, right? Now you're in control. And we can do anything for 10 minutes. And if 10 minutes feels like too long, try the five-minute rule. The idea is that you're building that ability over time. So the 10-minute rule becomes the 12-minute rule,

• 9:40Speaker 01

  becomes the 15-minute rule. And you're learning, wait a minute, I can actually delay gratification. Remember, all these problems of distraction are an impulse control issue. So when you teach yourself, wait a minute, okay, I can delay for five, 10 minutes. That's no big deal. You're proving to yourself, hey, I'm not addicted to these things. I'm not powerless. My brain isn't being hijacked. I do have control, as long as I use these practices, right? So the 10-minute rule is a very, very effective technique. Now, when you, we were talking about budgeting that time later on. Okay, so when you use those techniques, that's step number one. By the way, there's a dozen other techniques that you can use. The 10-minute rule is just one of them. Later on in the day, you're going to put time in your schedule to come back to that feeling, right? I want you to literally put time in your calendar, called worry time.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  And that's where you're going to look back at that post-it note and worry about all the things that you thought would, that you thought you would normally have to get to throughout your day. Does that make sense? So, so I used to do this all the time. I would say, oh, I've got this worry. I need to, I need to take care of that worry right now. And that would derail me. As opposed to when I started writing down and planning for that worry time, you know what happened? Nine out of 10 of those worries, and emotions, and fears, and thoughts?

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Melted away. They, when I, when I had a few minutes to think about them, you know what? Actually, that wasn't that important. That didn't have to get done. That wasn't really a problem. Right? And the one out of 10 that really was an issue that I did need to think about. Okay. Now I have time to actually think about it. So one, it compartmentalizes that time. So it doesn't pull you away and it lets your brain relax. Second thing it does is that it lets your brain say, okay, I don't have to worry about this problem right now. I can think about it later. We see this, by the way, with, with children. You know, many parents, there's a whole section in the book, Indistractable, on how to raise indistractable kids. And so many parents ask me about, you know, what do I do with social media and this and that? And I, part of my advice is schedule time for your kids to play video games. Put it in their daily schedule.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Like, sit down with them and make a schedule for the day and have that time. Because then they don't have to worry about all day, when do I get to play Fortnite? When do I get to, you know, hang out with my friends online? It's in their schedule. It's coming. They don't have to think about it all day long. And so it's the same with any of these potential distractions. We want to compartmentalize these times when we can think about them later in the day and work on them.

• 11:55Steven Bartlett?

  So what happens then? So I've compartmentalized it. I'm writing my book. I'm on chapter 12. I've got a bunch of worries pop in. I'm scheduling that for later and I'm going to crack on with the book.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:04Steven Bartlett?

  That's what I say to myself. That's section two of your four-step process, right?

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Right. Making time for traction. So you're going to finish that time box?

• 12:10Steven Bartlett?

  Yep.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  Right? So if you said, I'm going to work on this book for 30 minutes, finish the time box. Even if you're just sitting there staring into space, right? Steven Pressfield talks about this in The War of Art. It's about putting your butt in the chair. That's what makes a professional, is you do the work. Right? And what you find is it's very boring for a few seconds. This, this happens every time I sit down to write. There's that pause of, you know what? Maybe I'm just not feeling it. Maybe I should just stop for a little bit. Right? You feel that?

• 12:37Steven Bartlett?

  All the time.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  All the time, right? If you just sit there, if you just stick with it, even if it's just putting your hands on the keyboard and just hanging out for a few seconds, it always comes back, right? Maybe a minute or two or 20 later, it'll come back. And if it doesn't, that's fine. Just finish that time box. That's the most important thing.

• 12:55Steven Bartlett?

  Step three?

• 12:56Speaker 01

  So step three is hacking back the external triggers. So this is where we do talk about the usual suspects, the pings, the dings, the rings. That's where we very systematically go through what a lot of people complain about, but it's really only 10% the problem because 90% of our distractions begin from within. But people do have these issues. We talk about the phone, the computer. What turns out to be a much bigger problem is not the technology. It's what the technology is attached to. Right? So what if it's your boss? That's the distraction. What if it's your kids that are a distraction? We love them to death, right? Our kids are great, but they can be a huge source of distraction. Meetings! Oh, my God. How many stupid meetings do we have to attend that are nothing but a distraction?

• 13:37Speaker 01

  Especially now that Zoom makes it accessible so that wherever you are, people can call meetings. Those are huge distractions. Of course, Slack channels. And that's what we get into more in the book in terms of, okay, systematically, what do you do about these various external triggers?

• 13:53Steven Bartlett?

  What would you do about that? And what's your general view? Let's take this into the professional context now. You know, the design of like most offices, the kind of open plan format, where everybody can just walk over to someone else and say, Jenny, if you've got a minute, could you just take a look at this?

• 14:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:06Steven Bartlett?

  The same applies in the healthcare field and other sort of scientific fields, where you're working around a lot of people who can just tap you on the shoulder and say, could you just take a look at this?

• 14:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. Can you pass me the book?

• 14:17Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  So every copy of the book comes with...

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Oh, did you tear it out already?

• 14:25Steven Bartlett?

  Maybe.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Oh, you've had this for a while. So you tore it out already. So usually, right here in the back, there is a piece of cardstock that you put... It's this red piece of cardstock that you fold into thirds, and you put on your computer monitor. And it tells your colleagues, I am indistractable. Please come back later. And that screen sign is a wonderful way. You know, you put on your computer monitor if you work in an open floor plan office. That says, hey, I just need to be indistractable for a little bit. Right? People say, well, why don't I just put on headphones? Well, people think you're listening to an episode on YouTube or something. They don't realize that you're working with intent. So that's one easy way to do it. Another thing you can do is to start managing your manager. And this is something that all of us can start doing.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  If we have, you know, bosses who I hear this all the time says, look, I'm indistractable. I followed all your techniques, but my boss keeps interrupting me. What do I do? So one of the things you can do, one of the benefits of step two there where you can make time for traction is when you have a time box calendar, you have an artifact. You have something that you can physically print out and show to other people. So what I want folks to do when they say, look, my boss isn't leaving me alone when I need to work with that distraction. What do I do? What you want to do is you want to sit down with your boss for 10, 15 minutes. You say, boss, hey, can we sit down for 15 minutes on Monday morning? I want to ask you something. You sit down with them and you show them your time box calendar. You take out the calendar for your working hours and you say, hey, boss, okay. Here's what I'm doing this week. So here's my time for this meeting. Here's my time for email.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  Here's my focused work time. Here's what I'm doing this week. Here's the various projects you asked me to work on. Now you see this other piece of paper here? This is where I wrote down all the things that you asked me to do that I'm having trouble fitting into my schedule. And what you're doing with this process is you're avoiding one of the worst pieces of productivity advice that we hear all the time, which is if you want to be more productive, you have to learn how to say no. That is the kind of advice that only a tenured professor would tell you. That is terrible advice. You're going to tell the person who pays your bills, no, you're going to get fired. That's awful advice. Instead of saying no, what you want to do is to engage your boss in helping you do the one thing that they absolutely have to do as a manager, which is prioritize.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  So you ask them, how can I make sure that I do what you asked me to do based on my schedule for the week? And here's what they're gonna do. They're gonna look at them and say, you know what? That meeting, that's actually not that important. But that, this project over here that you put on the piece of paper, that's actually super important. Can you swap those out? And so by doing that, you're doing what's called schedule syncing. You're making sure that their priorities are also reflected in your schedule. And bosses will worship the ground you walk on. They love this because every boss out there, every manager, we're wondering kind of what our people are doing, right? That's what they want to know. But they don't want to ask you that because they don't want you to feel like you're being micromanaged. So you're proactively doing that for them. And you're showing them, hey, this is the time when I need to do focused work. This is when I'm going to be indistractable.