How to Build a Successful Cannabis Brand w/ oHHo's James and Nicola Stephenson

oHHo founders James and Nicola Stephenson join Haley for a THC beverage and to discuss building a successful brand from the ground up, getting to know your customer, how to be efficient with capital, going into business with your spouse, oHHo's foray into the energy drink market, and so much more! Go to weareohho.com and use code FINANCIALTEA for 30% off your order Financial Tea with Mrs. Dow Jones is a Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us at @sonypodcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Haley Sacks?

  I have to just tell everyone I finished mine and I feel awesome.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Well, that's good.

• 0:06Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, I feel so, but I don't feel like, oh my God, like I have to call my doctor. I just feel chill, like, like relaxed. This is Financial Tea.

• 0:20Speaker 02

  The other day I was going through my desk and I found a journal right from when I graduated and it had pen and paper, how much I spent each day. At this time, I think I was making around $40,000 and access cash flow was pretty tight. So I had to watch every penny. I think about how far we've come with technology and advancements to help us with this stuff. We don't need a journal with pen and paper anymore. The answers are out there and Monarch is one of those answers. Monarch is literally, it's like having a financial advisor in your pocket. So you can use AI to help see what you're spending. Monarch will help you have full visibility into your accounts. It will help you see your trends.

• 1:02Speaker 02

  It will help you set goals, map out big purchases, see if you're actually on track to where you wanted to be. You can ask Monarch's AI assistant, anything about your finances. Like, hey, how much did I spend on travel last summer? Can I afford this vacation without touching my savings? You can spot things you wouldn't think about before, like, oh, hey, has my spending gone up or just inflation? I was using pen and paper. Now you can use tools, like a full financial advisor in your pocket, and that's called Monarch. So what you want to do is you want to go to monarch.com, use code trading. The first year of Monarch Core is half off at just 50 bucks. That's 50% off your first year.

• 1:46Speaker 02

  Just go to monarch.com with code trading.

• 1:49Haley Sacks?

  Okay, we all love to romanticize being your own boss, but even when you have a team, you still end up being the bookkeeper, the marketing department and the person rearranging appointments at 11:00 PM. And that work isn't just annoying, it is expensive and it's especially taxing for businesses that run on appointments. So if you own a business that takes bookings. This one's for you. Gloss Genius is a system that runs the operations for you behind the scenes. Scheduling, payments, admin handled automatically. Payment processing is a flat rate with zero hidden fees and checkout rebooks clients on the spot. Clients can book in seconds too, so there's no login or separate app necessary. So you actually get more appointments.

• 2:33Haley Sacks?

  125,000 businesses already trust Gloss Genius to earn them more and save them time. Want to try it out for yourself? Go to glossgenius.com and use code FINANCIAL for 50% off your first two months of a premium plan. Okay, today I have a very special couple guest. I know you guys love when I have couples on. So I invited James and Nicola who founded this amazing luxury cannabis and CBD wellness brand, Oho. Okay, today is sort of like 420 themed JK, but it's like get on board. So you guys, welcome to the Financial Tea Podcast.

• 3:09Speaker 03

  Thanks for having us.

• 3:10Haley Sacks?

  Oh, and I didn't mention they have British accents. So it's like gonna automatically be a really cool episode just for that reason. But first, let's get into the MDJ Market Report. Okay, what's up sippers? Welcome back to the MDJ Market Report. I'm coming to you live from Los Angeles. Yes, your girl is in California. I have two stories for you this week because you obviously need to know how the market's moving. But these were the ones that really jumped out. And then I obviously do have to say go Nick because you know, they're playing. Don't sports bet, obviously. No sports betting. So our first story is about Trump accounts, which a lot of you asked me about because I feel like a lot of my sippers have kids. And they're like, okay, what do these mean? We're going to get free money. I'm confused.

• 3:50Haley Sacks?

  And when they were first announced, I was talking about them, but there was no way to actually like sign up or make it happen. And so I wanted to mention them on today's show because they're finally up and running. They're officially here. And the deal is that any child under 18 with a social security number is eligible for them. But the kicker is that children born between 2025 and 2028, shout out to my nephew Ernest, can get a $1,000 government contribution. So that means that if you have Kid born between 2025 and 2028, free $1,000 in that account if you sign them up. That's the most important thing, though, guys, because they're not going to automatically get the $1,000. You need to actually sign up for it.

• 4:33Haley Sacks?

  And then after that, you can contribute up to $5,000 a year in the account, which sounds great, but there's like a lot of restrictions with the account. Like they control what you invest in and like all these things. And so I would rather you focus on like a 529 and a custodial Roth IRA and those other children accounts if you're going to be putting extra money into it. But please get the free $1,000 because that is major. And this is also just a great incentive to start investing for your child at birth. Because if you do that and you let compounding do its thing, you know, with this account, if you max out the contributions every year, the account could hit 191,000 by age 18 and by retirement could be over $2 million, which is huge.

• 5:18Haley Sacks?

  So yes, take the free $1,000, but really look at this as a bonus account, not the main event. A 529 or custodial Roth is going to give you better tax advantages. The Trump accounts are really nice, but they're definitely not the most powerful tool in the toolbox. So we love them, but we also are not like going to get catfished into only using them. Okay. And then the second story I want to talk about is Backrooms. So the number one movie in America this weekend was Backrooms, which was directed by Kane Parsons, who is 20 years old and started making videos about the concept on YouTube as a teenager.

• 5:58Haley Sacks?

  And the movie cost about $10 million to make and it pulled in over $80 million in its opening weekend alone. 80 million. So this is so crazy, I think, just as like an economic signal, because for the last decade Hollywood has been obsessed with franchises. Like that's what they've been betting on Marvel, Harry Potter, like anything with a built in audience. But I feel like this is a ship because studios are now going to figure out that internet communities are actually intellectual property. Like Backrooms wasn't just a movie. It was years of YouTube videos and fan theories and games and lore that built this deeply engaged audience before a studio even spent a dollar. I think that these communities are more loyal.

• 6:42Haley Sacks?

  They're younger than traditional audiences and they're also cheaper to reach. So I would not be surprised if we saw the Hollywood model flip and instead of like creating a franchise and then trying to find fans, studios went first for where fans are and then turned them into the franchise. And so I think that we're going to see a lot more YouTubers and creators with Hollywood deals because really the content isn't even the asset, the audience is. But love you guys. I will see you next week and I hope that you love this episode. Be sure to rate, review, subscribe. Let me know if there's any guests that you're dying for me to have. We love all the feedback and stay rich. Enjoy the episode.

• 7:26Haley Sacks?

  We always start the show with the same way. I'm going to ask you three rapid fire questions coming at you. What is your financial ick?

• 7:34Speaker 01

  I hate meanness.

• 7:35Haley Sacks?

  Like meanness with like be like

• 7:36Speaker 01

  Meanness with money, being tight with money, like being tight with other people with money. That's my way of like, ugh.

• 7:42Haley Sacks?

  Okay, like cheap.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, don't be cheap.

• 7:44Haley Sacks?

  Okay, love that.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  That's my ick.

• 7:47Haley Sacks?

  Great.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  James would love me to be more cheap, but my, but my ick would be, yeah, people who are cheap.

• 7:53Speaker 03

  My ick is when she's not being cheap.

• 7:56Haley Sacks?

  That's a good ick. Okay, what were your best and worst purchases of the week? I know it's only Tuesday, but.

• 8:02Speaker 03

  Wow, yeah.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  I bought a very overpriced but handmade pair of slippers. So it was best because they are absolutely beautiful and I'm going to shout out the brand called Sand M. But of course I did not ask the price, not thinking they could possibly be what they got. So it was my worst too, but they're beautiful. Check them out.

• 8:21Haley Sacks?

  So best and worst because you love the slippers, but also like the price.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  Not quite, not quite what I was planning. So there I am being cheap, but I was trying, I was hoping, yeah, no, best and worst.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  Too early for me. I don't think I've bought anything yet.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  You probably bought some.

• 8:35Haley Sacks?

  What about all your tequilas?

• 8:37Speaker 03

  I bought too many tequilas last night. Yes. Good point.

• 8:42Haley Sacks?

  And lastly, do you feel rich today?

• 8:45Speaker 01

  No.

• 8:48Speaker 03

  Rich in experiences.

• 8:50Haley Sacks?

  Rich in experiences. Okay, we're gonna get into that.

• 8:52Speaker 03

  We're in a startup, so no.

• 8:54Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, no, I get it.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  We're so deep.

• 8:57Haley Sacks?

  We're so deep. Wait, talk to me about that. Like, when you're in a startup like this, like, it is impossible to really feel like, okay, like, like, ever, like, financially confident or, like, solvent, I feel like.

• 9:11Speaker 03

  It's getting there.

• 9:12Haley Sacks?

  It is. Okay, great.

• 9:13Speaker 03

  It takes time.

• 9:14Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 9:14Speaker 03

  And it's taken a long time. Too long.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we had, we had sold a company. My first company we had sold in 2018, and so we felt rich for a minute. And then.

• 9:32Haley Sacks?

  What was that company?

• 9:34Speaker 01

  It was a PR company.

• 9:35Haley Sacks?

  Oh, cool.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  A marketing company. And it was in London and New York, and we sold it to a group that was gonna go public, and everything that could have gone wrong in that transaction went wrong. That is a story for a martini.

• 9:47Haley Sacks?

  Okay.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  And so.

• 9:49Haley Sacks?

  Maybe two.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  So you feel like you're rich, you know, for a minute, and you get that money in your bank account, and you're like, wow. And then we got into, we were not aligned with our acquirers, which happens all the time when you sell your company. And that is something someone should write a book on. And so we ended up in a fight. So we spent money fighting.

• 10:09Speaker 03

  Which you don't wanna do.

• 10:11Haley Sacks?

  So you had to spend what you made on lawyers.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  So that was part of it.

• 10:15Speaker 03

  A substantial proportion.

• 10:17Haley Sacks?

  That sucks.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  But my dad also gave me some really great financial advice, which of course I ignored when he was alive, which is, it's all very well selling your company and having that moment, but the minute you're not working, you're not earning.

• 10:33Haley Sacks?

  Yes.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  And so you're into your reserves, and your life doesn't change, right? You're still going to the grocery store, you're still sending your kids to school.

• 10:41Speaker 03

  Unless you've made an exponential amount of money, you know.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  Different.

• 10:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  But then you're living on your reserves, and we are both, I speak for us both, but we are both completely unemployable. So then we had to start again.

• 10:53Haley Sacks?

  No, I agree with that. I am also unemployable. It's either this or nothing.

• 10:57Speaker 03

  I've got far too much to say for myself.

• 10:59Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, I agree.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  And then you've got to put the money that you have into starting something new, and then that's gonna take time. So it just, yeah. It all is a cycle. And then you have to, you know, everyone's like, oh, that company that's doing, you know, a hundred million, and I'm like. You know, that great expression of it takes whatever 25 years

• 11:19Haley Sacks?

  To be an overnight success.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  Right? Like it takes a long time.

• 11:22Haley Sacks?

  It's so funny too, because I feel like the media loves to highlight, of course, the overnight successes. But like, I know with Mrs. Dow Jones, like, this is year nine for me.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, no such thing.

• 11:32Haley Sacks?

  Oh, it's been one foot in front of another, like, even now, being in this moment with the book and stuff. It's like, it doesn't, this was all day by day. And there's, of course, those people who start on social media and are immediately one week in, have 300, 400,000 followers, but it just couldn't have been me. You know, that's who they always compare you to, though.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  But I don't know that it's anyone, when you really look into it, they've all had different. So, yeah, anyway, I was very short no for me. You might be feeling rich today, I don't know.

• 12:05Haley Sacks?

  I love it.

• 12:08Speaker 04

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• 12:37Speaker 05

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• 13:03Haley Sacks?

  Well, I have to say, this is, speaking of my book, this is a very opportune time to be recording this episode because, full disclosure, I am terribly hungover. I'm just warning you, don't worry, I have had Excedrin, I have had a bath, I have had a Coca-Cola, I've had a nap. Like, I am genuinely thrilled to be here and I'm good. But I do feel like the universe is sort of Shouting at me today that I need to trade my obsession with drinks and alcohol for THC. And this is really where Oho comes in. So I'm excited. I've actually never tried it. So I feel like it's maybe the time, like, I don't know, like, is it crazy? Like, should we just pop one?

• 13:42Speaker 03

  So these are three milligrams. So they're the lowest we do. So, yeah, very relaxed.

• 13:47Haley Sacks?

  Okay, so cantaloupe and wildflower honey. First of all, like gorgeous.

• 13:51Speaker 03

  This is our summer flavors, cantaloupe and wildflower honey.

• 13:54Haley Sacks?

  Okay, cheers.

• 13:55Speaker 03

  Cheers.

• 13:57Haley Sacks?

  You're a little hungover too, so.

• 13:59Speaker 03

  Me? No.

• 13:59Haley Sacks?

  No, no, no, couldn't be you.

• 14:04Haley Sacks?

  Oh, that's so good.

• 14:05Speaker 03

  It's pretty good, huh?

• 14:06Haley Sacks?

  Oh, my God, the cantaloupe? When do you ever have like a cantaloupe as a flavor? That's so thoughtful.

• 14:11Speaker 03

  It really is.

• 14:12Haley Sacks?

  It hits, but it's like very cantaloupe.

• 14:14Speaker 03

  And then you've got the honey kind of coming through.

• 14:16Haley Sacks?

  It doesn't feel at all artificial. Like, it's just like, I feel like.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  That's our thing.

• 14:20Haley Sacks?

  You're, this is amazing.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  Can I have a sip, please?

• 14:23Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, you need a sip. And now that we're really like selling it, we're really having it, but it's so good. Okay, so.

• 14:29Speaker 03

  So this is a limited flavor. So, yeah, this is for the summer.

• 14:32Haley Sacks?

  I love it. So, but speaking of like, you know, people thinking about not drinking, we're seeing this massive cultural wave right now. Like, the data is showing that Gen Z is drinking 20% less alcohol per capita than millennials. Recent polling shows only about half of Americans under 35 are drinking alcohol at all, which is crazy. And I feel like younger generations are just so much more mindful, like, and they associate alcohol with like, you know, bad sleep and anxiety and a hit to their productivity and mental health. And so I'm just wondering, like, how did this sober, curious trend sort of affect your initial decision to start Oho? Or were you just, did you happen to just catch the perfect wave?

• 15:17Speaker 03

  A little bit of both. We didn't start in drinks initially. We started in right back when, in like 2021, we started in CBD, that kind of.

• 15:25Haley Sacks?

  Oh, wow. Okay, amazing.

• 15:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. Realized there's a lot of mediocrity in the category. Sort of spent a year trying to find, develop some great products, find some great partners to make them. And then we started in CBD, tinctures, gummies, topicals. I was always very skeptical about topicals, about, you know, putting CBD in topicals. Were they actually going to work?

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Brought you some to try.

• 15:50Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 15:50Haley Sacks?

  Oh, yeah, I love it. Those are like creams.

• 15:52Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 15:52Haley Sacks?

  Oh, they're amazing.

• 15:54Speaker 03

  They are. They are if they've got a decent amount of, you know, cannabinoids in them.

• 15:58Haley Sacks?

  Oh, wow.

• 15:59Speaker 03

  But a lot of them had like 25 milligrams of CPD in the entire pot and it's not going to do anything.

• 16:04Haley Sacks?

  Okay, I'm so excited to try.

• 16:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, so we went into, into, into topicals. Chocolate's became a huge thing. Can you tell the story about that one, how that came about?

• 16:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, we were working with a hotel group approached us about having our sleep products in the rooms and they wanted to use our tincture. And we were like, that's a kind of big barrier, you know, I can't imagine you checking into a hotel and opening a tincture and how much do I take? And so we created a chocolate square, you know, that you used to get when you.

• 16:35Speaker 03

  Turned down.

• 16:36Haley Sacks?

  Oh, that's so smart, like to put on the pillow.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  To put on the pillow.

• 16:39Haley Sacks?

  Genius.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  But Jay is really obsessed with drinks generally.

• 16:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I just saw drinks as the biggest opportunity.

• 16:47Haley Sacks?

  I mean, this is so good, but also even you saying the hotel group thing, I'm like, the whole vibe of the brand feels really elevated. You know, like this feels like something that, I mean, we're talking about Gen Z and millennials, but this feels like something that even if you're sort of like above that age category, you could go for.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, and have something that feels approachable and, you know, a lot of hemp products historically and, and, you know, marijuana products have been probably targeted.

• 17:20Speaker 03

  Spiky green leaves.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, targeted towards guys, not, you know, feel a little bit intimidating. This is really a product category that's exploded, that is really aimed at the kind of everyday consumer, you know? And they're shopping in the grocery store, the liquor store or whatever. And so it's, it's a really new audience as well, I think.

• 17:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:42Haley Sacks?

  So there wasn't like this aha moment when you realized that the culture was shifting dramatically? It was sort of, like you said, like a series of events.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  I think everything that we were doing, which is very typical of startup, led us to like, you know, keep evolving.

• 17:57Speaker 03

  We initially developed these for the regulated market in New York.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:01Speaker 03

  Um, but the reality is drinks make up such a tiny proportion of dispensary sales, like maybe one or two percent. And then along came this opportunity to derive the THC from hemp, which was federally legal, so it allowed us to then sell it in retailers like liquor stores and grocery stores and it just changed the landscape completely.

• 18:22Haley Sacks?

  I love that. So the other thing that I was thinking about before you came on was, you know, all of these celebrity liquor brands, like there was such a gold rush there of, you know, we saw Casamigos, we saw The Rocks, Tequila, like all of these brands. And then, of course, the Kardashians jumped on board and, you know, Kendall started 818, which hasn't sold, doesn't seem to be doing incredibly well. And then Kylie started Sprinter, which was, is a, you know, canned cocktail line. And now they're pivoting to electrolytes. So I'm just wondering, like, do you think that canned cannabis cocktails are sort of

• 19:03Haley Sacks?

  going to replace the traditional celebrity tequila or seltzer? And then when you were launching the brand, did you ever think about bringing maybe a celebrity on to front it to sort of follow that wave?

• 19:15Speaker 01

  So I think the alcohol category itself has done an incredible job at adopting THC beverages. So they have identified, you know, it's a little split, but you've got retailers like Specs in Texas or Total Wine, and they are now clearing aisles to bring in THC beverages.

• 19:37Speaker 03

  Total Wine started last year, I think with maybe an eight foot line of THC. It's now like at 40 feet.

• 19:43Haley Sacks?

  Wow. That's crazy.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  And so a lot of people, I think, get a little down on the alcohol industry, but the alcohol industry has really been a leader in looking at the consumer trends. And George Clooney just launched a non-alcoholic beer. So non-alcoholic beer is massively on the rise. Heineken massively on the rise with NA, NA cocktails coming through. I think where THC has a slight edge is if you have a non-alcoholic cocktail, you're kind of swapping a drink. Where you're gonna get some effect.

• 20:20Haley Sacks?

  You're getting, you're, yeah, you're.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  For a sugary drink.

• 20:22Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 20:23Speaker 03

  It's like a consolation prize, right?

• 20:24Haley Sacks?

  I agree, like with the mocktail stuff, it is just like, I'm drinking juice and I'm not getting anything, but like at least with this, I'm getting a little.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  But you're getting a little something and if you want a little more, you can have a little more. So I think that the industries have kind of come together, the, the odd couple, basically, the cannabis industry and the alcohol industry have kind of come together around this category and that has really helped it to explode.

• 20:49Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, I feel like the modern luxury now is just feeling functional the next day when you wake up.

• 20:55Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 20:56Haley Sacks?

  But do you, are you targeting the younger audience or are you targeting people who are maybe more like middle aged?

• 21:02Speaker 01

  So.

• 21:03Speaker 03

  It's quite broad, really.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're in over 21 product. So I would say it's so interesting. You've got people in different life stages. So you've got young people who are like maybe going to yoga class, whereas I was probably falling out of the taxi, having.

• 21:18Haley Sacks?

  A hundred percent. I have like a huge scar on my shoulder from getting too drunk, literally, like.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  And tipping out, but you know.

• 21:25Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, like waking up with a gash, like couldn't be me.

• 21:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  Was that me? But they are, you know, going to, they're finishing work, they are going to an exercise class, then maybe having a drink, like something like this. Then you've got that kind of older, say mom, who just cannot be hungover. You know, she's got.

• 21:49Speaker 03

  She has to wake up at six in the morning.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  At six AM and she's like, I really want to have a rosé on a Friday, but I just also don't want to wake up on a Sunday.

• 21:57Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  So I think people are adding it into their routine and using it to drink less.

• 22:03Speaker 03

  And the older generation as well is taking it.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  And then you get old and you get menopause, not sleeping and that's a whole other.

• 22:08Haley Sacks?

  Oh, yeah, that's so true.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  Who are just like, we can't drink anymore.

• 22:12Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  And I can't sleep and you're gonna sleep brilliantly. And you say it all the time, you know, Jay's had his own relationship with alcohol, which is, which.

• 22:23Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  And that has been.

• 22:25Speaker 03

  I love it. I mean, don't get me wrong. I came from that generation.

• 22:28Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 22:28Speaker 03

  But.

• 22:28Haley Sacks?

  No, I love it too.

• 22:32Haley Sacks?

  It's so fun to get drunk, but it is hard after.

• 22:37Speaker 03

  It is. As you get older, it just gets worse.

• 22:40Haley Sacks?

  I mean, I'm feeling it, buddy.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  No, but you were like, I have to, I have to make a change.

• 22:46Speaker 03

  I have to make some changes.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  I have to make some changes in my life, otherwise I'm just gonna be.

• 22:50Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 22:51Speaker 03

  An old drunk.

• 22:55Speaker 06

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• 23:25Speaker 07

  When you spend enough time around great companies, you notice that the best ones treat trust as a growth strategy, not a box to check. Vanta helps companies build and prove trust from day one. Its Agentic Trust Platform connects compliance, risk and trust at enterprise scale. Vanta delivers a 526% return on investment over three years and pays for itself in just three months. Learn why over 16,000 of the fastest growing companies use Vanta at vanta.com.

• 23:56Haley Sacks?

  So this is the second time that you guys have started a business. So what were the absolute like first steps that you sort of took when you decided to build Oho? Like, how do you approach that initial phase? And this is for anyone listening who wants to start a business because this is now your second endeavor.

• 24:13Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  So I think, you know, we are, not everyone's the same, right? But we're very kitchen table, right? So we are like secondhand furniture, bootstrap, own money, own capital.

• 24:30Speaker 03

  Perfect concept and get it, get it that far.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  You know, one, one plus one, 100% growth in sales. You know, like we stood in fields in farmer's markets with the product at like eight in the morning, you know, and, you know, that's one route. And then the other route is you go out and you raise gobs of capital. At a valuation and maybe you have something that works and maybe you can't. And I always remember someone telling me this great story where they were like, this company's amazing. It's doing, you know, two million in revenue. And I was like, how interesting, how much capital have they raised? And he was like, 20 million. And I'm like, that's not a business. If I raised 20, I should be doing a hundred, you know?

• 25:10Haley Sacks?

  A hundred percent.

• 25:11Speaker 01

  So I think, I think not getting bent out of shape on your equity, not getting bent out of shape on your capital, being really efficient and not being frightened to go slower.

• 25:25Speaker 03

  You'll make mistakes, undoubtedly.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and you don't have to, you know, people want to tell you how much money they're making and how much product they've put out there. But actually, did you come back and buy it again?

• 25:36Haley Sacks?

  Oh, that's it.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  Like, that's what we are looking for.

• 25:40Haley Sacks?

  I feel like, you know, in this age of marketing, you obviously have marketing backgrounds. How do you decide what's really worth the investment? Like, there's this, you know, age of influencer gifting and ad spend. And what have you really seen actually move the needle for a luxury beverage brand? Or is it like, you should just do as much as you can?

• 26:02Speaker 03

  Well, we're quite restricted to what we can do.

• 26:04Haley Sacks?

  Oh, interesting.

• 26:05Speaker 03

  Because of cannabis.

• 26:06Haley Sacks?

  Okay.

• 26:07Speaker 03

  So Nick is more the marketing guru, but that has been a big barrier. So there's a lot of things we simply can't do. We've obviously been on Meta, Instagram, Facebook.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:19Speaker 03

  That's a very expensive game.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  It's, that's how, you know.

• 26:22Haley Sacks?

  It used to be a lot cheaper.

• 26:23Speaker 03

  It is.

• 26:23Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, and now it's, that's not where to go.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, like how to lose, you know, 10 million bucks.

• 26:28Haley Sacks?

  A hundred percent.

• 26:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  I would say one of the best things we've done, not intentionally, is we had this opportunity to take over an old firehouse in Beva Village, which is obviously your home, your backyard. And we turned it into a cafe, you know, for the brand. And it's open from eight in the morning till eight at night. So you come in, you buy a coffee, you buy some product, you, you know, and that's.

• 26:54Speaker 03

  We have other brands and products that are adjacent to our products. And you can talk to your customer.

• 26:58Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, that's huge.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  That's really cool.

• 27:00Speaker 03

  Key thing.

• 27:01Haley Sacks?

  So you just mentioned the restrictions of running a cannabis-based business in terms of marketing. What are other like frustrating regulatory or like financial headaches of running a cannabis business that no one really knows about or talks about?

• 27:14Speaker 03

  Having to work with a bank, there's very few banks that will work with you.

• 27:18Haley Sacks?

  Oh, interesting. So hard to get loans?

• 27:21Speaker 03

  Almost impossible.

• 27:22Haley Sacks?

  Wow.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  You pay more for everything. So your insurance is a premium, your trucking is a premium.

• 27:28Speaker 03

  Your car.

• 27:29Haley Sacks?

  They really come for you.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:31Haley Sacks?

  They're like, oh, we're gonna legalize it, but we're gonna take so much of it. Where is the actual cannabis, like, where, like, how do you produce it?

• 27:39Speaker 01

  So we derive everything from hemp.

• 27:41Haley Sacks?

  Oh, okay.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  So we're in, we're in the hemp derived THC.

• 27:44Speaker 03

  So hemp and marijuana are basically cannabis genus, basically. The same plant, what separates them is the amount of THC. So you just need more hemp to get the THC from.

• 27:55Speaker 01

  Marijuana is not federally legal, although President Trump is trying to push through a de-escalation and reschedule. And that is great, because that will open banking and 280 tax, and that will help. But hemp is federally legal. They are trying to shut it down. So we're fighting, trying to keep it open. So, you know, yeah, all day is a new challenge.

• 28:21Haley Sacks?

  Wow. And then the other thing that I was thinking about, besides the regulatory thing, is like, you're obviously in business with your spouse. So how do you sort of prevent business stress from bleeding into your relationship? Like, how do you keep things separate? How do you keep your romance alive, like, and keep the spark strong?

• 28:41Speaker 03

  I think we're both, we're both very lucky. We love working.

• 28:46Speaker 03

  We know what we're doing in the business. Inevitably, it always comes home, right? But it doesn't necessarily, it's a negative thing.

• 28:55Haley Sacks?

  Of course, because it's also like when you run a business, if you don't leave that at home. Like, it's such a big part of your life and your identity is like having that business, building that. So you're bringing it home always.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the kids live it, you know?

• 29:08Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  We're never on time.

• 29:10Speaker 03

  Both of them wanna, wanna be entrepreneurs for some reason. I don't know why.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, everything is a compromise. Nothing is perfect, you know?

• 29:17Haley Sacks?

  I love that.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  It's the usual, but we didn't know that we would change it, but.

• 29:23Speaker 03

  Well, as we're unemployable, so we don't really have a job.

• 29:26Haley Sacks?

  I love that. I feel like that's gonna be the title of the episode. How did your like personal approach to your finances and like wealth management shift or evolve once your entire household income became mixed up with this company? Because it's like you still, you have kids, you want to plan for college, you want to like, send them to do, you know, you still have expenses and you want to live a certain quality of life, but you're also so in this business and we hope that it goes to the moon, but with any startup, there's a risk. So how do you plan for that?

• 29:58Speaker 01

  I think, um, you know, you read about it all the time about people going right to the wire, you know, to the not really being able to get 20 bucks out of the cash point and then it kind of turning around. Um, I think you have to sort of have a little bit of that in you if you are gonna set, be in a startup because you turn around and be like, the company needs X and, and it's got to come from you. So we, we manage it as best we can, but nothing is perfect, you know?

• 30:33Speaker 03

  And you've got to have utter belief. That's the one thing. That's the one thing. If you're going to set up a, you know, business, you've got to believe it's going to succeed.

• 30:40Haley Sacks?

  But in terms of like the actual numbers, like how are you protecting yourselves?

• 30:45Speaker 01

  So I think being able to pay yourself a modest salary, the sooner you can, the better.

• 30:52Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  Um, so that's really important. And then keeping aside, keeping a little bit back, protecting your assets, um, and knowing when you need to raise money and knowing when you've got to draw that line on getting deeper in yourself, you know, knowing where your limits are and where your comfort level is.

• 31:14Haley Sacks?

  Nicola, during your appearance on Lipstick on the Rim, you spoke really beautifully about sort of major health event. So I just wanted to ask you a little bit about how, you know, getting diagnosed with cancer changed not only your personal outlook, but sort of the entire trajectory of your life and like the purpose behind Oho, because that's such a big moment and I, so powerful to hear you speak about it.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Um, it was a really just so unlucky situation. We had just moved to the States. We've been here about six months.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  We had set up, we'd expanded our New York office, we had an amazing team here. And the business was just exploding. And then I got a mouth ulcer and I had a, you know, two by four centimeter tumor in my tongue.

• 32:13Haley Sacks?

  Wow.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  So I was treated at Memorial Sloan here in New York. Dr. Richard Wong saved my life, no doubt. And it was a real watershed moment, I think, for us as a family, as a couple. I think you look at everything differently. And I'm not saying money becomes any less important to you, but I think what fulfills you, doing what makes you feel good, learning what you say no to, I think those all become much more.

• 32:46Haley Sacks?

  Obvious.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, obvious, yeah, because you say yes to everything, like, yes, I can be here and I can be there and actually.

• 32:53Speaker 03

  No is a complete sentence.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  No is a complete sentence.

• 32:56Haley Sacks?

  That's good. So just gave you a lot of perspective.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then when Jay really wanted to start Oho and he asked me if I would help him. And he had helped me so much in my work life. It was really just like a joy to be able to jump in and help out. So.

• 33:19Haley Sacks?

  That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing. So how much money have you raised for your company? Because you said that you first got it like to a place where it was making money.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:29Haley Sacks?

  And then how did you, like, what?

• 33:32Speaker 03

  Making revenue, not making, not, not, it wasn't profitable.

• 33:34Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, but it was, we were selling.

• 33:37Speaker 03

  It was rolling.

• 33:37Haley Sacks?

  It wasn't.

• 33:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:38Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 33:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:40Haley Sacks?

  Important, but also.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Sales are rolling.

• 33:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  We did a.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  Um, adventure VC.

• 33:48Haley Sacks?

  Mm hmm.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  So we started with a VC, which we kind of loved and recommend because VCs expect to lose their money.

• 33:56Haley Sacks?

  Ah, this is why I don't do VC.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Then we did a small friends round and then we did a convertible round. So all in, we've probably raised only about six million. And we're rolling around.

• 34:10Speaker 03

  With lending as well, I think.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  And a bit of debt and then we're rolling fifteen million. So that's where we are today.

• 34:15Haley Sacks?

  Wow, that's amazing.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  So super efficient on the capital front, which you can do it. I, I think we've pushed it a bit hard.

• 34:24Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  Um, and we're raising a round for energy, which is our new.

• 34:29Haley Sacks?

  Oh, yeah, I'm really excited to try that.

• 34:31Speaker 01

  And then we've been very lucky. We've had, um, you know, there are a lot of options open to you, like you can factor your invoices and you get charged for that, but you can basically use that. We have, um, a partner that helps us with big purchase order financing. So if we need to order like twenty million cans, we can do that and buy time on that. So I think it's about looking at all the things you can leverage. Um, whilst not, you know, having your own thing, you know, whilst not diluting yourself to the point where you're going to put all your blood, sweat and tears into it and get to the end and be like, I don't own it anymore.

• 35:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, people raise a lot of.

• 35:09Haley Sacks?

  So, so how much you own now of the business?

• 35:11Speaker 01

  Probably about thirty five percent.

• 35:12Haley Sacks?

  Oh, that's great.

• 35:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:14Haley Sacks?

  Um, and you're, but you're doing another round. So will you have to give up more equity?

• 35:18Speaker 01

  So that'll be in a subco.

• 35:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  And then we'll, yeah, a small round, so.

• 35:23Speaker 03

  Try and carve out some non-dilute.

• 35:25Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, keep it, keep it as much as you can.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:28Haley Sacks?

  How?

• 35:29Speaker 03

  And we have, you get options as well, obviously, so you can.

• 35:31Haley Sacks?

  Oh, love an option. So good. Um, how much revenue do you think you need to get to before you are a company that people want to buy? And who do you think would want to buy you? Like, what's like your dream exit here? Like, walk us through, like, um, if everything goes right.

• 35:48Speaker 03

  Just trying to get through today.

• 35:49Haley Sacks?

  Okay. I didn't know if we had like a, like a vision board.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  So you actually ask a great question, which I think is the financial world you're trying to come to grips with. So you're seeing like Liquid Death just go public.

• 36:02Haley Sacks?

  Oh, okay. So there's even.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  No one can buy Olly Pop because the money is too big, right? Like they're making over a billion dollars. You know, we have two quite separate businesses, you know, THC is in a more regulated framework. And then energy is like, we can sell that to anyone.

• 36:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  So, you know, it'll be really interesting to see, is it, you know, Diageo, did Diageo move into the THC space and acquire, do most of course take a position? Is it more Coca-Cola? Who knows?

• 36:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:33Haley Sacks?

  But you're saying you're at 15 now, like, do you, where do you think that you would have to go to get the deal that you want? And like, how much are you growing year over year?

• 36:42Speaker 01

  So we grew 105% year over year last year.

• 36:46Haley Sacks?

  Okay, killing it.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  That's very, was very exciting.

• 36:50Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, that is so exciting.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  Shout out to the Oho team because they all contributed heavily to that.

• 36:54Speaker 03

  Big time.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  So I think like, if you want anything started, like a fire, like, you know, anything, we're, we're really good at that.

• 37:02Speaker 03

  Really good at that.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  We're really good at grinding it out, starting it with nothing, getting it going. But you get to 50 million, 100 million, your expertise that you need.

• 37:13Haley Sacks?

  It's very different to run that company.

• 37:16Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 37:16Haley Sacks?

  Once it's not like a startup anymore.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:18Haley Sacks?

  It's a real business.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  So I think for us, it'll be recognizing at what point we need to have people that can really help us scale to that level.

• 37:28Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  And we'll go as far as we can. Um, but I think 50 to 100 million will be a really good moment for the bank.

• 37:38Haley Sacks?

  I like really believe in you guys. Like, I'm like, okay, like this is really gonna happen. Um, like, I love the product and I just feel like you're, you can tell everything about a company's success through the founders. And I have to just tell everyone I finished mine and I feel awesome.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  Love. We are loving that.

• 37:56Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, I feel so, but I don't feel like, oh my God, like I have to call my doctor. I just feel chill, like, like relaxed.

• 38:03Speaker 03

  And over the course of an evening, you can maybe have two or three. There's a.

• 38:07Haley Sacks?

  Oh, I might have two or three. I have a meeting after this. Like, I could have another. Like, but I'm not like slurring my word like it is it's sort of the same as a cocktail where it's like you could have multiple over the night. Well, this was so fun. I love talking to you guys and more than that, I love the product. And I'm really going to be depressed if you were lying about sending it to me because this is going to be the summer of Oho for me as a can drink connoisseur. But thank you for coming on the financial tea and stay rich.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  Thank you for having us.

• 38:46Speaker 07

  When you spend enough time around great companies, you notice that the best ones treat trust as a growth strategy, not a box to check. Vanta helps companies build and prove trust from day one. Its Agentic Trust Platform connects compliance, risk and trust at enterprise scale. Vanta delivers a 526% return on investment over three years and pays for itself in just three months. Learn why over 16,000 of the fastest growing companies use Vanta at vanta.com.