Pod Insights Financial Tea with Mrs. Dow Jones Re-writing the Zillenial Money Scripts w/ Ed Elson About this episode Our Gen-Z correspondent and Prof G Media podcaster Ed Elson joins Haley to discuss what people get wrong about Gen-Z and money, gambling, AI, financial nihilism, and dating in our modern financial landscape.
(00:00) Intro
(00:36) Market Report
(11:26) Meet Ed Elson
(15:10) Liberal Arts ROI Debate
(20:40) Monarch
(22:05) Where to Put the Fire
(22:48) Gen Z Tech Optimism
(23:38) Wealth Rules Broken
(26:42) Investing Vs Gambling
(32:37) Dating Money Dynamics
(36:30) Real Romance Advice
(37:21) AI Makes Us Dumber
(39:56) Fixing Screens Problem
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Haley Sacks? What do you think one thing is that Gen Z is actually getting right about like work and money?
0:05 Speaker 01 Um.
0:08 Haley Sacks? You're sort of like the op of Gen Z.
0:09 Speaker 01 I know, I know.
0:13 Haley Sacks? This is Financial Tea.
0:18 Haley Sacks? Okay, so I just gave my apartment a major refresh and hands down, the hardest thing to get right was the rug. I just couldn't find one that fit right. And I really wanted something that pulled the room together because like a rug is a big deal. But then I found Ernesta and Ernesta's amazing, you guys. It makes designer quality rugs custom cut to the exact size of your space. So it actually fits instead of almost fits and looks great the first time. Like in the past, I've just defaulted to stock sizes when buying rugs. And also like when you're in a New York City apartment, that really just doesn't cut it, but they're all weirdly shaped. But with Ernesta, you can send photos and dimension to Ernesta's design team and they help you get the size exactly right, completely free of charge.
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2:10 Haley Sacks? 25,000 businesses already trust Gloss Genius to earn them more and save them time. Want to try it out for yourself? Go to glossgenius.com and use code FINANCIAL for 50% off your first two months of a premium plan. Okay, welcome back to Financial Tea. This is the podcast where I teach you how to build wealth with the side of market drama, money scandals, and of course, financial pop culture. Today, we have Ed Elson in the house. Ed, welcome to the Financial Tea.
2:41 Speaker 01 Thank you. Great to be here.
2:43 Haley Sacks? But first, let's get into the MDJ Market Report. What's up, sippers? Welcome back to the MDJ Market Report, where I cover the top stories you need to know to see where the money is moving this week. And if this market report feels a little different, it's because it is the first one I am recording as a New York Times bestselling author. And I just want to say to my sippers, thank you so much if you are watching or listening or following me. Like, this happened because of you, and I just feel so grateful. It was my biggest dream. And I also just feel so strongly about everything I wrote in the book.
3:21 Haley Sacks? So I think what makes me the most emotional is just knowing that so many of you now have it and can utilize it and are going to be taking control of your money. So I'm not crying, you're crying, but let's get into it because I do have really good stories for this week. But I just wanted to really say thank you because it couldn't have happened without you. Okay, so for the first story, I want to talk about a pattern that is showing up in women's dating lives that was just written about in The Guardian. And I've named it, I want to call it the new dowry problem, but let me explain. So basically, single women now make up 25% of first time home buyers in the US, which is more than twice the rate of single men.
4:04 Haley Sacks? So just to be clear, women are building wealth, buying property, and basically doing everything right at record numbers. And a specific subset of men, and I want to be clear, it is a subset, is penalizing them for it when they go On dates. And of course, we're talking about the men who lose interest the moment that they find out a woman owns her home instead of like thinking it's cool like and these men get defensive. They even might get hostile like one woman was interviewed by the Guardian and had a man tell her on a date, good luck finding somebody as good as me when you are Miss Independent because she was buying a house. So here's what I think is actually happening. This is obviously crazy.
4:45 Haley Sacks? Do you remember the dowry system? Like, you know, back in the olden days, a woman basically had to arrive at a relationship with assets that she would transfer to a man. And I have a theory that this did not disappear. In the case of the dowry system, like her wealth wasn't a sign of independence. It was a price basically of admission into a partnership where she would then be financially dependent on that man. And we've changed a lot since then, right? Like the system legally, like I feel like that system sort of dismantled as recently as 1974, when women gained the right to apply for credit cards in our own in our own names. But even though the legal architecture is
5:25 Haley Sacks? gone, I think a certain type of man, especially those who are radicalized by all this manosphere content and like obsessed with this provider identity have sort of rebuilt it culturally. And yes, I am blaming incel technology and red pill content because I feel like the rise of women's economic independence has also risen with that. And they're sort of like competing against each other. And that's not a coincidence. I feel like it is a backlash because for this for these men, a woman who is already financially whole is a threat, not because men universally can't handle it, not because like all men suck and we should quit dating and all this stuff. Most can, but because this specific profile of man has built his entire sense of masculinity
6:10 Haley Sacks? around being needed financially. And if you take that away and he has nothing to offer, then he has nothing. So if you're wondering what to do, I'm not telling you to like hide your assets or play small on dates. Like, that's obviously the worst investment that you can make. You're just going to attract a man who's like comfort requires your diminishment, which is a liability. But I just want to be real that like the new dowry problem is real. These guys exist, but unlike with the original dowry, you get to decide whether you actually pay. So just be strategic about that. And by the way, these men didn't emerge by accident. Like, I really feel like the rise of incel ideology and like red pill content sort of rose the same time as like women's economic independence, which I don't think it's a coincidence. I do think it's a backlash.
6:56 Haley Sacks? And I'm also speaking from personal opinion because I know that it is hard to be successful as a woman and date because it's sort of seen as feminine to need to be helped. But I just think that like for these men who are scared of you and they want you to not be financially whole and can't handle it. It's not because that's wrong. It's because they have built an entire sense of masculinity around being needed financially. And there's a lot of women who buy into that. And so if you take that away and he has nothing to offer, then he doesn't feel like as much of a man, which honestly tells you everything. But I do also just want to remind you that financial independence was never supposed to be like a personality flaw. It's sort of just the whole point.
7:39 Haley Sacks? Like, don't let anyone on a date, on a dating app, like in your own head, convince you that building wealth makes you less lovable. The only thing that building wealth does is make you less controllable. And those are not the same thing. And any person who wants you to be controllable is not someone that you should want to be in a relationship with. But I am sorry for you guys because I know that it is hard out there to find a good man who's down for a woman who wants to own a house. But if I swung the other way, I'd date you myself. Okay, our next story is about Everlane selling to Shein. This is a crazy story because Everlane was that brand that everyone was obsessed with. I think I still have a gift card to them that spent a decade telling you like
8:22 Haley Sacks? exactly what their clothes cost to make and like why ethical fashion was worth paying more for. And now they are selling to Shein for $100 million. Yes, Shein, like the brand that Yale researchers called the biggest polluter in fashion.
8:40 Haley Sacks? Fashion, credibly accused of forced labor, anti Semites, like that Shein. And look, a lot of people are writing about this story. I saw Sammy Cohen talks, did a really great video about it on Instagram. And they're talking about what this basically means for millennial idealism. And it, because it is sort of like this death of the ethical consumer era, which I get. But that is not the angle that I want to take. I want to talk about the values premium because I think that this is really important for us all to sort of think about as consumers. Because you paid it with Everlane, I paid it with Everlane, and I think we need to call it what it actually was, which is a bad investment. Like, and here's what the values premium actually is.
9:22 Haley Sacks? It's basically the extra money that you spend on a product because you believe in what the brand stands for. So maybe you're going to Whole Foods and you're buying like that special organic honey because you follow the founder on Instagram. And like they went through cancer and the honey saved them and you want to support them. Or with Everlane, they charge more than classic fast fashion because of like radical price transparency and ethical factories and sustainable materials. And millions of millennials, including myself, paid for it because we weren't just buying a T-shirt. We were buying the story, we were buying the identity, we were buying this feeling that our spending was actually doing something. But the problem is that values don't compound.
10:06 Haley Sacks? Values do not build equity. Values do not protect you when private equity or Shein comes knocking to acquire you. And this is actually the same mistake that we make in a lot of financial decisions. Like we often conflate how something feels with what it's worth. So Everlane felt like the responsible choice. It felt aligned with our values, but those feelings aren't a hedge against a hundred million dollar exit to like the company that you were supposedly boycotting. Meanwhile, we've got Shein, which is the brand that we were all morally opposed to, acquiring one of our favorite ethical companies for a fraction of what it was probably worth at the peak.
10:50 Haley Sacks? Which has then expanded their market share in the process, like the fast fashion company won, and it almost always does. So I'm not saying that I don't have values. I definitely have values, but I am saying that values alone are not a financial strategy. And you have to watch out as a consumer because brands love to sell you your own values back to you at a markup and they are not your allies. They are actually your most expensive purchase. So the real lesson from Everlane isn't that millennials were naive. It's just that like the market doesn't reward virtue. It just rewards margin. And when the two come into
11:33 Haley Sacks? conflict, you already know which one is going to win. Obviously, it's always going to be about margins. And maybe if we learned anything from this, it's to not outsource our ethics to like direct to consumer startups backed by private equity. Okay. And for our final story, let's talk about Omer Pijay, Audemars Piguet. I always feel poor when I pronounce fancy watch names, so please just bear with me. But they collaborated with Swatch to drop a $400 pocket watch on a lanyard. I just want to be clear, effectively that is a keychain. And I would say it looks closest to something that you would hang your work ID on. I saw a few commenters said it looked like a Happy Meal toy. I don't think that they're wrong, but I also know that it's going to sell out by Saturday morning.
12:15 Haley Sacks? Like people are obsessed. And here's why. People don't actually want the watch. They want what the watch means. Like they want the AP logo. They want the association of this really rich brand. They want the ability to say that you have a piece of Audemars Piguet. Yeah, I nailed it. Like the object is beside the point. This is just the whole looking rich versus being rich problem in a single product drop. Luxury brands have figured out that aspirational consumers are going to pay a premium for adjacency to a brand they can't actually afford. So like not a $50,000 watch, a $400 keychain, which is a feeling. And feelings don't appreciate. Like the real Royal Oak holds value. I mean, certain models have outperformed the S and P by
12:59 Haley Sacks? Over the last decade, do I think that this lanyard version is going to do that? No, I think that it's going to be in a drawer by 2027. I'm not confused about that, and I don't think that the luxury brands are confused about this either. Like, they designed it that way. The Royal Pop isn't for the person who can afford the AP or who even like wants to build wealth from the AP. It's just for the person who wants to look like they can. So before you camp out, I just want you to ask yourself whether you are building wealth or performing it, because this is something that's really hard to get right in today's consumer culture. Okay, that was the market report. Now let's get into our episode with Ed Elson.
13:40 Haley Sacks? Okay, so I always start with three rapid fire questions. Watch out, first one's coming at you. What gives you the financial ick?
13:46 Speaker 01 Oof, what gives me the financial ick? My financial ick is probably crypto at this point. I'm just, so many people in my generation are just so obsessed with cryptocurrencies. Everyone thinks that they have the next hot altcoin. What they don't realize is that most of these people are actually losing money on crypto. I don't find it interesting. I don't find it exciting. I find the fact that, I mean, when you just look at my generation, twice, twice as many of us are actually owning cryptocurrencies as opposed to stocks, which I just find ridiculous. So I think my financial ick would have to be crypto. We can get into more into why, but rapid fire crypto.
14:23 Haley Sacks? Rapid fire crypto. Okay, what's your best purchase of the week? It's Friday.
14:28 Speaker 01 Best purchase of the week would have to be, went to dinner with a group of friends, had a few drinks and ended up just sort of randomly deciding I'm going to pay for everyone. Felt really good, probably because I got the drink, but that was a great purchase. Everyone was very happy about it.
14:45 Haley Sacks? I love that. And then my last question is, do you feel rich today?
14:50 Speaker 01 I feel I'm getting there. I feel that I'm getting there. The podcast is going really well. I feel that I'm learning so much from doing this podcast, speaking with investors, speaking with experts. Living in New York is kind of insane, but that's sort of the hand we've been dealt. And I love this city. I love who I'm meeting. I also just love the professional opportunity that it, that it provides me. Like, for me, I'm sort of like, I'm, I'm well on my way and everything's going to pay off. I just need to keep working super hard, keep learning as much as possible, keep grinding essentially.
15:26 Haley Sacks? So how old are you?
15:27 Speaker 01 Twenty seven now.
15:28 Haley Sacks? Twenty seven. So I feel like these, that is exactly what your twenties are all about. It's sort of like trying things, getting your career sort of in place and just like trying to get your money in the market so that you can start compounding.
15:42 Speaker 01 That's right. That's what it's all about.
15:43 Haley Sacks? You've had this crazy career trajectory. Like, walk us through it a little bit because you were obsessed with Scott Galloway in college and then became his intern, then became his research assistant, and now you're his freaking co-host. It's you and Kara Swisher. Those are the two people that he's on the mic with every week.
16:00 Speaker 01 Yes.
16:01 Haley Sacks? So how, like, walk us through this. How did you make this happen?
16:05 Speaker 01 Well, you kind of nailed it right there. I mean, I was, I was obsessed with Scott Galloway in college. I listened to his podcast and I wanted to do anything to reach out to him. So I was trying to find all these different connections. I found one through actually my roommate and I learned that, that he had a connection to, to Scott Galloway. And so I emailed Scott Galloway and I said, hey, I just really want to work for you. And he took my call and we had a phone call and he said, I'll, I'll let you intern for me. That's what I did my senior year of college. Then he hired me out of college. I was his research assistant, doing his decks, doing his research, helping him write his books, et cetera. And then about two and a half or three years ago, he said, let's start a
16:47 Speaker 01 podcast. And so I said, okay, let's do it. Didn't really know what I was doing, but I just went for it. We started with once a week and then we went to twice a week and now we're doing it every day, every, every weekday at least. And it's just kind of grown from there. And then in a couple of weeks, we're going on tour. So we'll be going to San Francisco, LA, Chicago, Miami. We'll end in New York, which will be awesome.
17:07 Haley Sacks? So fun.
17:09 Speaker 01 It's, it's been kind of a rocket ship that I'm just kind of like wrapping my head around, but it's been so much fun and so rewarding.
17:16 Haley Sacks? I love that. And you know, what's so crazy is like, we both work in the financial space, but neither of us studied finance. Like, I studied film, you were a classics major. Like, what do you sort of make of the ROI of a liberal arts degree? Like, do you think you need to study finance to work in finance? Like,
17:36 Speaker 01 No, I don't think so. I mean, yeah, so just for the context, I mean, I took some economics courses, I took some finance courses, but my major was classics. I was studying like, ancient Greek and talking about ancient classical storytelling, a completely different thing. But what was so helpful about that education is I learned the art of storytelling. And essentially, that is what the job is. What we're trying to do with our podcast is take complex and what many would consider to be boring topics, making them exciting, making them interesting, telling the story of what's happening on Wall Street. And that's a lot of what jobs are today as well. I mean, especially, I think this is becoming clearer
18:16 Speaker 01 for people in an age of AI, where AI can do all of the boring tasks for you. What can it not do? It's not that great at drawing connections between interesting stories from history and making analogies and doing the hard work of telling the stories that are interesting to people. So for me, I'm like, that was the best education I could have gotten. It trained me for exactly the kinds of things that I need and that will help me in my career. So I'm very, very bullish on liberal arts educations right now. I don't think that college is just sort of a one and done. You have to go to college. It's the only way to be successful. And what we know about college educated kids right now is that they're struggling to get jobs. But if it's, I mean, liberal arts was sort
19:00 Speaker 01 of downplayed for so many years. It's useless. Doesn't matter. You have to study computer science instead. That just turned out to not be true at all. I always believed that that was going to be the case. So I'm pro liberal arts.
19:14 Haley Sacks? Pro liberal arts. And even now, I feel like there's so many 18 year olds who are looking at like, student dad, and they're like, I don't know if I should go to college. And it's like, I agree. I think that it's still really worth it.
19:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think it depends on your situation.
19:29 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
19:29 Speaker 01 I think the trouble is, we were sold this story for basically decades.
19:34 Haley Sacks? Yeah, the American dream.
19:35 Speaker 01 You have to go to college. If you don't go to college, then you're useless, you're worthless, and you're not going to get a real job. That was not true at all. You can, I mean, we're literally seeing that employment, if you didn't go to college, for college grad aged people, if you didn't go to college, the employment rate is actually higher than if you did go to college. First time we've seen that in a really long time. If you're taking out huge amounts of debt to go to college, that's a different story.
20:00 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
20:01 Speaker 01 There's a different ROI depending on where you go.
20:03 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
20:03 Speaker 01 That should have been communicated to us. We should know that you need to look at the college that you've been accepted to. If it's a great college, if it's like an Ivy League, if it's like top 10, that does matter to employers. It still matters. And yes, maybe you should take out a significant amount of debt to go to that college. It really depends on the situation. I think that we should have been trained from an earlier age, like this is a nuanced conversation. It's not black or white. It isn't binary. That's not what we were taught at growing up.
20:34 Haley Sacks? I mean, literally, the American dream is such a lie. Like, I talk about that in my book. I'm like, the American dream is dead. Like, everything that they said, like, we should have and should search for, doesn't work.
20:44 Speaker 01 Yes.
20:45 Haley Sacks? And I feel like the most, the antidote to that is not to, like, give up, but it's more just to run the numbers.
20:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:51 Haley Sacks? Like, that's literally the thesis.
20:53 Speaker 01 And work harder. I mean, that's the thing that upsets me about young people today is, yes, we were definitely sold something that didn't turn out to be true. Our parents and our grandparents, like, this is how you're going to do it. This is the way I got a job, and this is the way the economy works. And we live in a completely different economy. We live in a world where housing prices, just as an example, are seven times average annual income today. For my parents, it was four times. For my grandparents, it was three times when they were my age. So it's a completely different economy. It's a completely different world we're living in, not to mention the fact that we're dominated by our screens, and we have to juggle that at the same time. And so we can't use the playbook that other generations have used. It just doesn't work for us anymore. But.
21:36 Speaker 01 What we also can't do is say, oh, it's screwed up. The system is completely rigged and so I'm just gonna give up and I'm just gonna sit at home. I'm gonna live in my parents' basement. I'm gonna watch YouTube. I'm gonna order DoorDash, et cetera, et cetera.
21:49 Haley Sacks? Yeah, watch porn.
21:50 Speaker 01 Watch porn.
21:51 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
21:52 Speaker 01 That's how I'm gonna spend my time. Spend all my money on OnlyFans, Daytrade, Gamble.
21:57 Haley Sacks? Polymarket.
21:58 Speaker 01 Polymarket, Calci, et cetera. It's like, this is, this is not, this is not the way we're gonna build that. So in my view, I'm totally with you. Like, there is a lot of reason to want to feel that you should give up and that the system just doesn't work for you. But, okay, have fun giving up. Like, you could also take the alternative route, which is you could really get your shit together, work super hard, recognize that you are actually gonna have to work harder than, than previous generations did. You are gonna have to grind. You're gonna have to be really conscious and careful about how you spend your money, what you're investing in, how you build your career. Like, these are very hard questions. They're meant to be hard.
22:39 Speaker 01 And so we need to acknowledge that, recognize that, and then get our act together and do something about it.
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23:16 Haley Sacks? When I look at you, you're someone who's Gen Z. And, you know, when you say work harder, it's hard, I think, for someone who's a little bit lost in their career
23:25 Speaker 01 Totally.
23:26 Haley Sacks? to know where to put the fire. Like, oh, I want, I wanna figure it out. I wanna have that career that's gonna like, take me to the next level. But there, I don't know where any opportunities are. I don't have a network and the job that I'm in sucks.
23:38 Speaker 01 Totally.
23:38 Haley Sacks? I think what you said is the, like, the most, like, that's so important to just be like, yeah, it's supposed to be hard.
23:43 Speaker 01 Yes.
23:44 Haley Sacks? Like, oh, it's totally figure outable, but it's like, it's, it's definitely gonna take some work. Like, no one is going to hand you anything. And by the way, that's capitalism, baby.
23:53 Speaker 01 Yes.
23:53 Haley Sacks? Like, you know, cream rises to the top and you're only gonna become cream if like, you're working really hard.
23:58 Speaker 01 Exactly.
23:59 Haley Sacks? What do you think one thing is that Gen Z is actually getting right about like, work and money?
24:04 Speaker 01 Um. Oh.
24:07 Haley Sacks? You're sort of like the op of Gen Z.
24:09 Speaker 01 I know, I know. When I look at our situation, I'm just, I don't, I generally, I don't feel that optimistic. And as you can tell, I'm like, kind of generally sort of lean towards pessimism, which is not the way to be. I mean, I think it's clear that, that what we're, what we're incredibly good at is technology and using technology to come up with creative solutions to problems. I am bullish on AI. I think that AI is going to be transformative for a lot of, for a lot of people. And I think it's going to create a lot of wealth. But I also have concerns about how that wealth is going to be distributed, where it's going to be concentrated into. And so that to me is also going to be a problem for us.
24:49 Speaker 01 I mean, the trouble for Gen Z is we, we've come up with all of these, we've recognized correctly that the traditional ways of building wealth and creating value and creating a base and an economic base and economic security for yourself and for your family, they don't really work anymore.
25:07 Haley Sacks? Yeah. New rules of building wealth, baby.
25:10 Speaker 01 Exactly.
25:10 Haley Sacks? Thank you, Ed, for selling my book.
25:11 Speaker 01 Yes, exactly. And by the way, you should buy this book.
25:14 Haley Sacks? No, I Venmo'd him for that. Yeah. Continue.
25:20 Speaker 01 I've talked about housing. I've talked about the cost of college, which was a real problem. I should also recognize that, that stocks are expensive today, too. You have a world where stocks are very expensive. It's hard to get into that. Houses are very expensive. You spend all this money on college. Like, the traditional ways to build wealth, they're not very accessible in a way that they used to be. And so on the one hand, you have to respect that young people have come up with these creative ideas and creative solutions to getting around that. And they have come up with things what I call casino assets. That would be cryptocurrencies. That would be options trading, which is very, very popular for Gen Z right now. And it would also be just kind of flat out gambling, which we're seeing in the form of prediction markets. So in a way.
26:04 Haley Sacks? They want to get rich quick.
26:05 Speaker 01 They want to get rich quick. And in a way, you have to respect that because there's a hustle mindset. There's a workaround, like, hey, these things. Don't work, so let's let's come up with our own solutions. In that sense, I respect it. On the other hand, we should also recognize that there is a very, very, very small percentage, very small handful of people who are actually building wealth via these assets. Most people who are trading crypto are losing money. Most people who are trading options, especially zero day options, which are these options that expire within 24 hours, it is essentially gambling. Most of those people are losing money and our generation, we're the ones who do that stuff the most. We're the most interested in crypto. More than a third of us are trading options.
26:50 Speaker 01 That's the highest of any generation by far, far higher than millennials, far higher than than Gen X, far higher than boomers. We're obsessed with trading. And then, of course, there's the gambling. Prediction markets are on the rise. Also, general traditional gambling is also on the rise. Half of young men today have a, an online sports book, which to me is a concern because if you look at the numbers, if you look at your odds, your odds of making money gambling are actually lower than your odds of getting bit by a dog.
27:19 Haley Sacks? Oh, my God.
27:19 Speaker 01 So your odds are not very good.
27:21 Haley Sacks? No.
27:21 Speaker 01 And then I look at prediction markets and actually the return, this is a new study that we saw. The return on prediction markets is actually lower than your return, your average return on traditional gambling.
27:32 Haley Sacks? No.
27:32 Speaker 01 Average return is negative seven percent.
27:35 Haley Sacks? No.
27:35 Speaker 01 On prediction markets trading. And the reason it's so bad is because you have point one percent of the traders on those platforms who are making all of the money, probably because they have inside information. In fact, we're now seeing a report or an investigation from the DOJ, which is proving that that is the case. And then the rest of us are thinking, maybe this will work, maybe it's going to happen. I think one of the problems is that we, we've come up with all of these sophisticated financial terms to describe these things like zero day options and altcoins.
28:09 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
28:09 Speaker 01 Yield farming and events contracts. That's what the legal term for prediction markets contracts are, events contracts. And we're kind of making it sound sophisticated and exciting to invest in this stuff. But I just think we should be very clear about. What is investing and what is gambling? And the distinction between those two things is so, it's so essential and it's sort of, it's the difference between building wealth in a sustainable way that's actually going to work out for you over the long term versus just YOLO-ing into things and it's hoping and praying, crossing your fingers that it's going to work out, which is what so many young people are doing. Again, I don't blame us because this is what we were sold.
28:53 Speaker 01 Like, we were told this story and we've had these companies that have invested billions of dollars into perfectly concocting that story and manicuring it such that it is compelling to us. But I do worry about where it's leading us and I think eventually we're going to wake up and have that moment and realize, oh, this was all kind of a grift. Like, this, none of this really made sense and the ways that we should have been investing were the traditional ways and tough luck, the entry point is more expensive.
29:22 Haley Sacks? So, just to be clear, we don't think that Gen Z is getting anything right about work with money.
29:28 Speaker 01 Well, so, so, so let me, let me clarify because I don't think that it's that Gen Z sucks with money. I think it's that we were handed a very, we were given a very different, different hand.
29:38 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
29:39 Speaker 01 And so I-
29:39 Haley Sacks? It's really treading water, like trying to figure out like what can we do?
29:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:43 Haley Sacks? Where's the opportunity?
29:44 Speaker 01 Yeah. How do we build wealth?
29:46 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
29:46 Speaker 01 I mean, this is an idea, maybe, maybe it's this. And, and, and the answer is, most of the time, the answer is actually, no, it's not that. And so, I, I just, I should be clear, I guess, I don't blame Gen Z for our problems. We saw the same thing with millennials where it's like millennials, all they do is buy their avocado toast and they don't know how to build. And it's sort of like, that's, that's a very reductive way of framing the way that millennials are approaching money and the fact that they are working hard and they are trying to figure things out. I don't think that Gen Z is a bunch of lazy, entitled people who just, they, they're stupid, they don't know what they're doing.
30:25 Haley Sacks? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:26 Speaker 01 I don't think that. I just think that the situation that we were placed into is a very difficult one and the idea of getting it right is almost hard. Harder than ever. Like, it's very hard to not mess up financially in the situation that we're in today. Which is why we need more podcasts like this to talk about this.
30:45 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
30:45 Speaker 01 We need more books like this.
30:46 Haley Sacks? Yes.
30:47 Speaker 01 To talk about it.
30:47 Haley Sacks? You need to do your book.
30:48 Speaker 01 It's harder. It's harder today. I'm, I feel very passionate about it.
30:53 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
30:53 Speaker 01 I think it's a real thing. I mean, I, I have a presentation that I give to companies and one of the quotes that I have in my deck where I talk about this is, it's a quote from Alexander Hamilton. He literally said that there should be a line between mere unprincipled gambling and respectable stock holding. Basically saying like this distinction between investing and gambling is, is quite important. And it, it can get blurry and it can get confusing and it can be a real sinkhole for people financially. So this guy was saying this like literally like 200 years ago, talking about how we need to have that distinction. It's been around forever, but I feel that, that today especially the distinction is being blurred and it's really confusing for people.
31:36 Speaker 01 I hear stories from young people where they'll, they'll call in or they'll send an email and they'll talk about how they learned about this meme coin on, on, on Twitter or on X or on social media. And they literally took like their grandmother's savings and they said, I'm just, I'm so sure.
31:54 Haley Sacks? Not the grandma's savings.
31:55 Speaker 01 Grandma's savings. This was a story that was told.
31:58 Haley Sacks? That ain't right.
31:59 Speaker 01 It's terrible.
31:59 Haley Sacks? Take your hands off of grandma's. By the way, grandma needs to be investing. I'm worried about grandma. Stay away from grandma.
32:07 Speaker 01 Hundred percent.
32:08 Haley Sacks? She, what she do to you?
32:10 Speaker 01 Exactly. But it's sad as well. Like it makes me, it makes me upset. And, and these kids are upset about it too, because there's a sense of shame and regret and guilt. But like, you know, we have these people, like we have Andrew Tate on our phones every three seconds with his Lamborghinis and his, and, and his weird compounds in Romania, talking about this is how you're going to get rich. Like the, the misinformation out there, the education that we're getting is just, it's so bad that again, I don't blame the kid. I don't blame him for doing that. I blame the situation that he was dealt.
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33:46 Haley Sacks? Okay, so you work for a man who's like, obviously so upset about male loneliness epidemic, like the incels, like it's this whole thing. You probably researched the book, like it's a, you know, big thing in your office. But meanwhile, you are over here just like being fully in a relationship and like, I don't know, I feel like as a sort of prof G markets head, I would love to know a little bit of the romantic tea ad. And I want to know about how you split money with your partner, because I know you guys love to go out to eat. Like, are you throwing down that card for her always? Are you, you know, is chivalry dead?
34:20 Speaker 01 Chivalry is probably dying. I like to do it. So whenever, whenever I can, I put the card down and I buy the dinner. But sometimes she'll say, I want to do this and she'll put the card down too.
34:35 Haley Sacks? Feminism.
34:36 Speaker 01 So, but that's nice because I, what I like about that is there's this. There's an emphasis on like, we're always trying to be helpful. Like, you're always trying to be nice to the other person. And this kind of goes back to what I was saying before, which is usually if you do that, if you're always trying and striving to make your partner's life better, easier, more comfortable in some way, then you're going to get that back in return. And so that's sort of, you know,
35:05 Haley Sacks? It's an investment.
35:06 Speaker 01 But it's exactly, it's an, it's an investment. I mean, I think generally speaking, men should be paying, or at least you should be trying to pay. And, you know, if it's a conversation, they say, no, I really want to get this, then okay. But you should definitely be striving to do that. What I think is getting, becoming to be a problem is there is a culture of, you know, all that matters is how much money you have and how much you spend on the date. Like, dating is getting more and more expensive. And Gen Z is actually spending more than the average in America today on dates than any other demographic. We're spending more than $200 per day. That's on average.
35:43 Haley Sacks? That's a lot of money.
35:44 Speaker 01 A lot of money.
35:45 Haley Sacks? For average is crazy. Like, that's not even just in New York.
35:48 Speaker 01 It's not, this is not in New York. This was a survey of the United States.
35:52 Haley Sacks? Are they going to like Disney? Like, how many activities are you doing? Like, you just got a maki roll and like split some beer. Like, what the hell?
35:59 Speaker 01 Exactly. Or you go, like, you go on a walk.
36:02 Haley Sacks? Yeah, or that's better. Go get sushi. Yes, you can get cheap sushi. No, for sure, go on a walk.
36:09 Speaker 01 But I also agree with the saying.
36:10 Haley Sacks? I'm a financial expert.
36:14 Speaker 01 But I totally agree.
36:16 Haley Sacks? When you're in your twenties, you are so often wanting to be a sheep in wolf's clothing.
36:23 Speaker 01 Yes.
36:23 Haley Sacks? Right? Because you are sort of appropriating adulthood and you want to feel like, okay, you're doing it right. And so much of how we're seeing people do that now is with money. But actually, when you were talking, Ed, about like, maybe the right way to go about things, it's like much more modest and sort of just gritty.
36:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:41 Haley Sacks? You know, like, and so, and I talk about this in my book too. I'm like, move home with your parents.
36:46 Speaker 01 Right.
36:46 Haley Sacks? Like, in your twenties, like, feel free to like be cheap with your friends. Like, why are you at Chipriani?
36:52 Speaker 01 Like, you, there are only so many times that you can go to Nobu or Chipriani without actually having the money to afford it. And so what is so much more impressive, and I think more attractive to people, is like,
37:03 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
37:03 Speaker 01 Come up with your own thing that actually makes sense for you. Like, don't bankrupt yourself trying to go to these ridiculous places. Like, come up with something that is affordable for you, shows that you have taste, you have interests, you're making an effort.
37:17 Haley Sacks? So give us some examples, Ed. Like, you, you've romanced successfully, right? Like, you got it to the finish line, you've moved in with a girl. Like, that is,
37:25 Speaker 01 Big time.
37:25 Haley Sacks? You don't, that's big time. Like, you gotta give us your tips and tricks. Like, when you were, when you were rolling out that red carpet at the beginning of the relationship, trying to like, you know, seduce this lady, who I would like to note I'm meeting on Monday, um, what was, what was,
37:42 Speaker 01 The nice thing for us is that we were really good friends. And so I think that was another thing that really helped us is like, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't me trying to sort of flaunt something or be flashy or be really cool for her. It was like, our relationship was built off of originally being friends with each other and having this, this sense of like genuine trust, companionship, friendship. So I guess my, what I would say is like, instead of going into a date and thinking like, how do I convince this person that I'm the coolest person that's ever existed? Scott, the way Scott puts it is like, a lot of people go on dates and they show up with a representative of themselves.
38:20 Haley Sacks? No, it's so true.
38:20 Speaker 01 As opposed to themselves.
38:21 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
38:22 Speaker 01 Which is so true. Like, why don't you show up as yourself and see, does, do we have a connection? I think that's the way to do it.
38:31 Haley Sacks? Yeah, it's so true. We have to talk about AI.
38:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:34 Haley Sacks? Cause you recently spoke to Cal Newport and Derek Thompson about AI. So what would you say is the most surprising thing that you took away from that conversation?
38:41 Speaker 01 It's a really interesting conversation. Cal Newport, who was a neuroscientist, and Derek Thompson, who's a great writer for The Atlantic. Basically, we talked about this idea that AI is making us dumber. So again, to be clear, I think AI is going to be incredibly productive. We're seeing huge amounts of wealth, huge amounts of productivity. It's incredible for enterprises. I'm not someone who thinks that AI is a giant scam, which is a lot, what some, a lot of people seem to think. However, AI in schools is a real problem and becoming a real problem. Because what we're seeing is that every student today is using AI to cheat, just flat out. Cheating to do their homework, cheating to do their essay assignments. A study was done where they looked at young students using AI to do their homework.
39:25 Speaker 01 And they had a control group of students who were not using AI. They found that the students who used the AI tools, like ChatGPT, like Claude, to do their homework. They, they, they did brain scans and they found that their brain activity was suppressed by 55% when they used the AI tools. And they also noted, which I love that they pointed this out, that that is actually lower brain activity, higher suppression than people who are twice over the legal alcohol limit, drunk drivers. So essentially you have a whole generation of, of kids who are basically drunk drivers doing their homework. But the difference is these are our formative years. This is where our brain is being developed and teachers don't know what to do about this. College professors don't know what to do about this.
40:09 Speaker 01 The technology is advancing so much faster than anything else. And in fact, the thing that was really upsetting is that OpenAI developed an AI tool that was actually able to detect cheating, AI cheating. It had 99.9% efficacy. And they decided to actually pull that tool because they realized this is going to decrease usage among the younger population. They need young people, which is driving a lot of the usage today, to be using AI to help them do their homework. And in most cases, to do the homework for them. So I worry that we have a generation of kids that are getting also, I mean, we talked about loneliness, the anxiety, troubling things with depression, but also literacy, math scores, science scores.
40:54 Speaker 01 I'm sorry. And this is just the data. This is the data.
40:59 Haley Sacks? Oh my gosh, I'm trying to like enjoy myself.
41:02 Speaker 01 I'm sorry to be a doomer.
41:03 Haley Sacks? You gotta give us like a, this is how we fix it.
41:06 Speaker 01 This is how we fix it.
41:06 Haley Sacks? Tell us know how.
41:08 Speaker 01 My view on how we fix it? You got to start with the root problem, which is the screens and the phones at a very early age. Get rid of the phones in schools, ban them, flat out. Make sure that we're strict about it. I might sound like a Luddite. Oh, technology is a problem. We're already seeing the evidence. It's a problem for children. And then we should also just age gate social media. Very simple, very easy solution. Australia has done it. Lots of countries in Europe are doing it. Just say, we need to verify your age before you get an Instagram or a TikTok account. And there's your, there's your solution right there. That, that way will develop a sense of understanding of how to socialize with people, how to go through that productive
41:52 Speaker 01 struggle that we talked about. And then, once you are a fully formed adult, once you've gone through your education, once you've learned about the world, then you get the phone, then you get on the social media. And there are great things about social media. We got to connect because of social media. We got, I mean, my, my whole career is really about using social media to get messages out there, to get my podcast out there. Of course, there's so much great stuff, but we should at least just recognize the downsides and the vices of social media, which are way more, way more emphatic, way more intense from an early age for young people specifically.
42:28 Haley Sacks? Totally. And we are like in a niche on social media too, where we're not like doing the nefarious influencing.
42:34 Speaker 01 Well, by the way, this is why we need more people like you.
42:37 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
42:38 Speaker 01 Because, because, I mean, the alternatives, a lot of people say, oh, you know, scrolling, social media, that's stu-, it's like, no. This is where people are spending their time. This is where they're learning about the world. This is where they're learning everything from how to cook, from how to invest, how to get a job. This is where we're being trained. And so the, the alternative is you could say, oh, I don't like social media. I don't want to be on there. But if you have something productive to offer to the conversation, you should be on social media as much as possible.
43:08 Haley Sacks? As much as possible. We need you.
43:09 Speaker 01 Compete with Clavicular and Andrew Tate.
43:11 Haley Sacks? Clavicular, yes. And Ed woke up this morning and he used his hammer. And that's why he looks so, so chiseled.
43:17 Speaker 01 Had my peptides, pampered the face.
43:20 Haley Sacks? Hammer to the face.
43:21 Speaker 01 Bone smashing.
43:21 Haley Sacks? So important. Well, Ed, thank you so much for coming on the Financial Tea. I think this is going to be the first of many appearances. You're going to be our Gen Z correspondent.
43:30 Speaker 01 I love it.
43:31 Haley Sacks? Just, you know, boots on the ground. Thank you.
43:34 Speaker 01 Thank you so much. It was a lot of fun.
43:36 Haley Sacks? It was a lot of fun. And you know, Ed, stay rich.
43:40 Speaker 01 I will. I'll try.
43:40 Haley Sacks? Thank you. Thank you.
43:49 Speaker 04 You never know who's going to show up on For the Love with Jen Hatmaker. From Mel Robbins to Tig Notaro, Kate Bowler to Stanley Tucci. I'm Jen Hatmaker and every week, my dear friend Amy and I dive deep with incredible guests who make us laugh and cry and think a little bigger about life in the middle years. For the Love, where great stories meet unforgettable people. Follow and listen wherever you get your podcasts.
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