874 Leveraging a Competitive Spirit and Becoming an NBA Icon with Jerry West

DREAM TO LIVE. Growing up in a dysfunctional household is tough. It can feel like you are in a nightmare. The only things that can keep you going day-to-day are your hopes and dreams. Jerry West has a fantastic story to tell. He’s been through it all. Just like me and many others, he dealt with significant adversity as a child. He managed to persevere and achieve at the highest levels in spite of every difficulty. Dreams are the light that brightens your way in the darkness. Stop thinking of hardship as a detriment. Look at it as your extraordinary power. On today’s episode of The School of Greatness, I talk about achieving and making it through difficult circumstances with an NBA icon: Jerry West. Jerry West is an author, executive, and former NBA basketball player. He is a basketball legend who played with the Los Angeles Lakers from 1960 – 1974. While with the Lakers, he won an NBA Championship and was named an All-star fourteen times. The NBA modeled its logo after Jerry West. After retiring as an NBA player, he became an executive and helped bring the ‘Showtime’ brand of basketball to Los Angeles. After leaving the Lakers organization, he worked as a general manager for the Memphis Grizzlies and as an executive for the Golden State Warriors. He currently serves on the executive board for the Los Angeles Clippers. So get ready to learn about achieving through adversity, the power of dreaming, and the importance of loyalty on Episode 874. Some Questions I Ask: How did you learn to build belief in yourself? (22:00) What role did your father play in your childhood? (23:30) How do you find your niche in life? (34:30) What was the greatest lesson you’ve learned from your father? (59:00) How do you build mental toughness? (01:01:00) What advice do you give to people who don’t know how to dream? (1:09:00) In This Episode You Will Learn: How having a competitive spirit can help you achieve your dreams. (15:00) The importance of loyalty in business. (20:00) Why you should never give up on the quest to do something significant in your life. (25:00) About the three kinds of people: Fighters, Floaters, and Fleers. (39:00) Why everyone should always continue to dream. (01:09:00) If you enjoyed this episode, check out the video, show notes, and more at http://www.lewishowes.com/874 and follow at instagram.com/lewishowes Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 874 with the NBA icon Jerry West. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Thomas Jefferson said, "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal. Nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude." Welcome to today's interview and episode. I'm super excited about this because we have a legend, literally a living legend, Jerry West, who's one of the most successful and respected figures in the history of the NBA. And Jerry is a former professional player, having played for the Lakers for 14 years. While he established himself as one of the greatest players in NBA history. He currently serves as an executive board member for the Golden State Warriors.

• 1:13Lewis Howes?

  And he owns a list of accomplishments as both a player and front office executive that is unmatched in league history. He's got eight NBA championships as a player, executive, or special consultant, two NBA Executive of the Year awards, 14 NBA All-Star appearances, 10 first-time All-NBA selections, inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame, and was named to the NBA's 35th Anniversary Team in 1980. His jersey number 44 was retired by the Lakers in 1983. And in 2011, he had a statue outside the Staples Center in Los Angeles.

• 1:54Lewis Howes?

  And in this interview, we talk about how Jerry's mindset differed from those he grew up with, and how that set him on his path to success, coming from a very small town, and the power of trusting your instincts and how to find motivation to keep going, no matter what challenge you're going through. We also talked about Jerry's biggest regret and the lessons he's learned from those around him. And he's been around some of the most inspiring people.

• 2:20Lewis Howes?

  In the NBA and business and sports and beyond. How to build mental toughness and not let the pressure of success break you. And Jerry's powerful advice to those who don't know how to dream. This one will inspire you. Please share it with one friend that you want to help today, that you care about today. Send it to someone that you can support in their life, that they can be inspired by this and have a connection with that individual, asking them what they got out of this as well.

• 2:53Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. We have the iconic Jerry West in the house. Thank you so much for being here, sir. Appreciate you and congrats on everything in your life. We were joking just before about who am I? And I was thinking that I could start with some things we have in common. Since I'm much younger than you, you're much more successful and still better looking than me. We're both from the Midwest. I'm from Ohio, you're from West Virginia. We're neighbors. I don't know if you consider West Virginia Midwest because that's eastern kind of like time zone.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  Well, that's not gonna make us closer, okay?

• 3:27Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, exactly. But we're from a probably a four hour difference drive from the same type of people. We both played basketball, something we have in common. I played high school and college. I was never good enough like you to go pro, but that was my dream was to be a professional basketball player. We both represent our country with a sport. I played with the USA handball team currently still. I was just down in Brazil a couple of months ago, training with the USA team. You won the Olympics. I haven't made the Olympics, but I'm on the USA team. So all these things, you're much better than me. And the fourth thing we have in common is we both grew up very insecure, very insecure,

• 4:06Lewis Howes?

  unsure of ourselves, feeling very lonely, depressed and not feeling like we got the acceptance or the love from the people we wanted it from the most. And that's something that I learned about you that I was surprised about, but I felt the strongest connection to. And I heard in an interview that you talked about that really drove you to be the person you are today through sports, business and throughout your career. And so, yeah, I just wanted to open with that. It's good to be connected.

• 4:38Speaker 02

  Well, you know, as I say, all of us grow up in different circumstances. You know, some people grow up in really loving households where. I'm not sure what the average American household is today. It certainly has changed because money is not worth as much as it used to be. And particularly in certain states, the cost of living, like in California, is enormous. So depending where you go up, but I, one of the things I really felt that going up was that,

• 5:08Speaker 02

  I think the affection you're shown when you're little, if it comes from your family,

• 5:18Speaker 02

  to me, it's almost an entitlement and something you should expect as a young child. I didn't see that. And so I grew up, number one, not wanting to go home. I didn't know what was gonna face me. Number two, to depend on myself, that's the only one I could depend on. And number three, the dreams that I had would probably shock people. You know, how I'm, I don't wanna live my life this, like this, I don't. I was, I was a fierce competitor, even a young age mentally. The things that have driven me all of my life were my dream. And sometimes when you're little, you can make yourself, you don't wanna go home and what you might see.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  You talk to yourself. I don't know how many times you talked to yourself when you were little. But I always was one of those people that was driven from an early age. You know, we had absolutely nothing. I grew up in tough circumstances, like a lot of people in West Virginia do. And I found that the most interesting thing to me, because I love fishing and I love the outdoors so much, that no one in my family liked to do it. And the solitary thing is where you do your best thing. Okay? Today, I'm a vociferous reader and I read back, I read today about successful people and people who I've admired who've been leaders.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  And I say to myself, they faced some of the very same challenges that we did, but they were dreamers also. I had a chance to live my dream. I really did.

• 6:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  And to think that someone from a place of 500 where, you know, your next door neighbors, you ran right through their backyard. Today, here, somebody, a dog would bite you, or somebody would shoot you, they'd catch you on camera. This tiny little community where people had very similar lifestyles. But there's one thing in common with those people. Everyone always said hello, how are you?

• 7:18Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  I have always tried in my life to be nice to everyone. I don't place myself above anyone, nor would I ever do that in my life. I run away from any accolades that people might want to accord me. Because what I did with my life was really about competing. It was about the competition. And there's so many competitive people in this world today that they're hidden. They're in all walks of life, but they're hidden. With an athlete, when somebody's really competitive, you can see it.

• 7:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  And normally, the more competitive, the more skilled, the better results you're gonna do, have. And so consequently, when people are watching from distance, they can see when people compete.

• 8:03Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:03Speaker 02

  When people don't compete, they're not gonna choose their drink.

• 8:06Lewis Howes?

  Right. Were there a lot of dreamers in that small town? Or do you feel like you were the only one really trying to get out, really trying to make something of yourself?

• 8:14Speaker 02

  I think they all wanted to be like their fathers, grew up and working a coal mine. I didn't wanna do that, not a dog.

• 8:19Lewis Howes?

  Why did you not want that when everyone else seemed to want that?

• 8:23Speaker 02

  I've always been different. I don't know if that's a positive or a negative, but I have been different.

• 8:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 8:28Speaker 02

  And the things that excite me in life, all had was always about competition. As a player, as an executive, you're trying to do your best, not for you, but the people that are rooting for you.

• 8:41Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 8:42Speaker 02

  And...

• 8:42Lewis Howes?

  Not let them down, or?

• 8:44Speaker 02

  Yes, you felt like, I think everything I did out of my life, even today with fear of failure. Because you don't wanna let people down. And when I was young, it seemed, I was one always trying to please people to be, for them to look at me a little bit differently when obviously I had no self-esteem, none. I remember when I went to college, I said, I don't want to go to college. I was a social misfit person. And having been for the competitive desire to compete for the state university, which I love West Virginia, I love the people. Certainly, I couldn't have accomplished anything in my life.

• 9:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, wow. Why do you think you had such low self-esteem when you were an all-star and a competitor that was probably winning a lot in high school and college?

• 9:29Speaker 02

  If someone tells you they love what you do, or they love how you play, that doesn't enhance your self-esteem. You want somebody to feel deeply committed to you, okay? That is your friends, your family, and particularly your family. That just wasn't a part of my family. It was a daily struggle for survival.

• 9:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  And it changes your thought pattern, particularly as you get older. Because all of a sudden, you get your name in the paper and everyone thinks you're, puts you on this pedestal. Well, trust me, it's not very pretty when you're on top of a pedestal sometimes, it's not.

• 10:05Lewis Howes?

  Especially if you don't believe in yourself or how self-worth.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  Well, that's one part of it.

• 10:09Lewis Howes?

  You're like, well, everyone sees me up here, but I see myself as worthless, right?

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Well, I don't necessarily say worthless, but I could never understand why. Because I was an athlete, that people would think you're special, that they would think you're special, and when you lose. And I had one incident here in Los Angeles that probably, I think Best sums it up. You know, we had been, I think, nine NBA Finals as a player, and only one won. And we lost a game, we lost a final game in an NCAA, not an NCAA, but in an NBA championship. And I would jog with a friend of mine, and we were jogging on the west side of town, down Salmon City, see a lot of people doing that, that run down the ocean and back.

• 10:55Speaker 02

  And this guy said to me, he was jogging, you guys choked again.

• 11:00Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  The first time in my life, I think honestly, I wanted to kill this person. Wow. No, kill him. And he wasn't very big, and I was a pretty good big guy. And I have a mean streak. I never let it come out because I learned that from being a kid. I don't want it. It's an ugly side of life. So it's one of the few times in my life when I really had to restrain myself. Loyalty is another thing. I see the most disloyal people today. Uh, involved in sports, petty jealousies. People who are looking for attention. And I'm not talking about the athletes so much. It has to do more with people in the front office.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  The idea of this whole thing, you're always a team. You're always a team. And let's say a player has passed his time to play. And you have to tell him goodbye. Do you know how I feel? It's the worst feeling in the world. Horrible. You know how it feels when you tell a player you're traded? It's god awful. How many times do you have to do that? A few times in my life, and people I really like. And I will say one thing, if I would ever pat myself on the back for anything about being in basketball. I can tell you there's never a player, in my opinion, that was ever underpaid working at the different places I work. Never. Because I think it's wrong to underpay a player.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  But more importantly, I think it's wrong to overplay a, uh, pay a player. It does, all it does is create problem going forward. You need to pay the people who are doing the job, not to someone who's seeking attention. And some players seek attention, so they talk a lot, they get a lot of money. And this, this league is, I think it's, was spent like a billion, six hundred thousand dollars, uh, six hundred million last year on free agency. Wow.

• 12:56Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  It is crazy.

• 12:58Lewis Howes?

  Do you ever feel like you learned how to build belief in yourself? Or was it more, I'm afraid to lose, or afraid of judgment, or afraid of letting people down? So I'm just driven by that as opposed to the belief in myself?

• 13:13Speaker 02

  You know, something, I honestly don't care if people dislike me at all. I don't. At one time, I cared deeply. But I think when you're involved in making decisions, people, such rapid, rabid boosters of teams that, you know, teams not having success, it's either you or the coach, okay? It probably shouldn't be the coach. It should probably be the person that's bringing the players in.

• 13:37Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  There's been a lot of incredible coaches, but I will guarantee you, if those coaches had been saddled with a bad lineup, they wouldn't have the record they would have today. But also, a part of that is, if you didn't have the right coach for the right team, had a lot of talent, they weren't going to be successful.

• 13:58Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 13:58Speaker 02

  But there's probably more people that are involved in basketball at the executive level who are making executive decisions, particularly on the player's life. They're probably the ones that should be looked at a little bit more seriously than the players themselves.

• 14:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 14:18Lewis Howes?

  I want to take a moment from this interview with Jerry West and talk about a powerful app, Calm. Now, did you know that a good night's sleep is like a magic remedy for the brain and the body? When we sleep well, we're more focused and relaxed. And if you're not sleeping enough, it can affect your cognitive functions during the day, like learning, problem solving, and making decisions. And best of all, sleep makes us happier. One of the most powerful things you can do for yourself with all the research that's been out there is actually get a great night's sleep. It will give you more energy for the day and help you respond to life's challenges with much more calm and ease. And that's why we're partnering with Calm, because it's the number one app for sleep.

• 15:02Lewis Howes?

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• 15:45Lewis Howes?

  That's C-A-L-M dot com slash greatness. Forty million people have downloaded Calm. Find out why at calm.com/greatness. And now let's get back into this interview with Jerry West.

• 16:07Lewis Howes?

  I had Kobe on about a year ago and I asked him about how he became so successful in basketball. I asked him about, he said when he first started playing, I think he was a teenager, young teen, maybe he was 12 or 13. He said he played in a summer league and he didn't score one point this whole summer. And then- Well, I'll tell you one thing, he shot a lot of shots. Exactly. But he said his father at the time said he loved him no matter what, whether he scored or he didn't, he loved him no matter what. And he said that was part of the freedom that gave him to go out and be fearless because he knew he would have that love whether he failed or missed shots or made shots. And that's what he said, at least, that it gave him the freedom and the courage to go out and play all out.

• 16:52Lewis Howes?

  And then the next year, he really started to blossom. Do you feel like, I'm getting the sense of you that you didn't have, your father probably didn't show much affection or love, anything, it was- Never saw me play a basketball. Never saw you play, ever? You would have been here with state champion.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  I would not let him go to any game, particularly when I had risen to a certain level in high school when I was the best player in the state. And we won the state championship and getting all these scholarship offers from everywhere, along with a lot of cash inducements. And when my father made $450 a month to thank you, you're going to make three times that in inducements. It was very tempting, but it didn't tempt me. I went where I got nothing at West Virginia University. I got nothing. But no, I never felt that connection, no.

• 17:40Lewis Howes?

  Did you feel like if you would have received the love, the attention, or the support from him or your family, that you would have been a different player, better, worse?

• 17:50Speaker 02

  No.

• 17:51Lewis Howes?

  No?

• 17:52Speaker 02

  No, I think there's certain instances in my life that probably spurred me to never, never give up in my quest to make something different in my life. I did not know about basketball when I picked it up would be that vehicle. But what was different in the whole thing was is that just because I was such a dreamer, oh my gosh, the dreams I would have, I could make myself be the greatest player in the world, I could be the, you know, I could make every last second shot. And, you know, I had a nickname, Mr. Clutch, which Chick Kern gave me. Mr. Clutch did it again, or whatever it was. I used to think it was pretty funny.

• 18:36Speaker 02

  And some writers would ask me, you know, why does this seem not to bother you? Number one, I've never been afraid to fail because in my life, there's times I have felt like I've been a failure. I said I did that probably a million times when I was a kid. Last second shot, I would put, today you have the little tenths of a second. And I would put those, and we did not have that then. And I would close my eyes 15 foot from a basket. We didn't have a three-point line. Close my eyes and say 1,001, 1,002, 1,003.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  Then shoot the ball.

• 19:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 19:14Speaker 02

  I could miss it when I was a kid ten damn time. I was a coach, the referee, and the announcer. Okay?

• 19:20Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 19:21Speaker 02

  Referee, I'd find a way to put time back on the shot clock. Uh, the referee would say, you know, somebody tipped it or something.

• 19:28Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, it was a foul, there's.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  No, no foul, no foul, it was always, it wasn't about free throws, it was about making the shot.

• 19:35Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  And so this was this mind game and, you know, when I got to the point where I'd realized I'd made some progress because I was so little, I could see myself getting better. I didn't have anyone to go home and talk to it about.

• 19:50Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  But I just, it's this quest to be something that was different. Because basketball wasn't even popular where I grew up. It was football and baseball and I, my high school teams were powerhouse, baseball teams and saw, and, and football team. I saw myself grow, I saw myself be, you know, six, three at that time and I grew to six, four, almost six, four. And, um, I saw myself getting better.

• 20:18Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  And, um, it was, that's an amazing feeling, but still knowing that there's more there.

• 20:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  You just knew there was more there because I basically taught myself how to do it. I, I copied people that I thought were, and again, high school players.

• 20:34Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  Uh, so whatever fit into my scheme of things in life then, I would try, try to emulate it, emulate it and copy it. But as I say, the thing that made, probably made me was an incident in my life. Uh, I had a brother killed in Korea when I just turned thirteen.

• 20:52Lewis Howes?

  In the war, right?

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Yes, in the Korean War. And I became this very aggressive kid to one who was like a, someone who never spoke.

• 21:05Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 21:05Speaker 02

  And as I mentioned earlier, when I went to college, I never said a word. I was really, really, really quiet. And that's why I didn't even feel like I, I belonged in college. And when I, you know, when I went there, I actually left school and I wasn't gonna, I was, I was, I was gonna quit school. I didn't belong, I've been belonging to school.

• 21:24Lewis Howes?

  And not play basketball in school?

• 21:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:25Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 21:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. But there was one incident that started, you know, we had a, you couldn't play as a freshman in college. And so we had an undefeated freshman team and we used to play the varsity team, which was fourth ranked team in the country and we would beat them a lot more than they would ever beat us. Wow. And they wouldn't put you on varsity? So the coach started playing, dividing the freshmen away from the seniors and juniors and sophomores. Then you started to see yourself, I think you start to build a little bit of confidence and but again, it was a, this wasn't something that happened overnight. It was like a trying to get to the top of the mountain.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  And when I got to be a junior, I was top of the mountain. And when I got to be a senior, I was top of the mountain. And as I say, sometimes the view up there is not very pretty. Right. Why is it not pretty for you? Well, you just feel so much more, you feel so much more pressure on yourself. Because I wasn't competing for me. I hated varsity. I hated it. I just wanted to win for the people in the state. And I know that might sound kind of folksy or whatever, but that's all that ever mattered to me, ever. And in my life, I've been the very same person. I like, I like competition. Even today, I like competition. Yeah.

• 22:51Speaker 02

  And when somebody says no, that you can't do something, no always meant yes to me. Always meant yes. But you have to get to a point in life where you feel a little bit more confident about your ability to do things or maybe see things that other people don't see. And I just have always trusted myself. I've always trusted my judgment. As I say, I read a lot, okay? I read a lot and Malcolm Gladwell is someone I really admire a great deal.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  And the Peter Principle, okay? I found that to be more true than people will ever realize. For people to move one seat and they have no ability to see the bigger picture. But one probably was the most memorable to me when he was talking about trusting your own instincts. Okay, I've trusted my instincts all my life. Sure, I've made mistakes and I admit them, by the way, some people won't. I will admit mistakes. And it's, he's been kind of an inspirational writer to me. Reading about really famous people. Winston Churchill, I so greatly admire him. His ability to lead.

• 24:09Speaker 02

  If you read, I probably read 25 books on him. Franklin Delano Roosevelt, probably 20 books on him. I just read a book the other night, Edward Snowden, fascinating book. But I like to learn and I don't think you're ever too old to learn. And I think maybe one of the things that keeps me viable, the ability to communicate is the fact I do enjoy learning. When I went to school, I did just enough to get by.

• 24:36Lewis Howes?

  Me too, just enough to pass.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  Well, and, but if you read, if you read this book by Edward Snowden, he'd figured out to an art. And they thought he was autistic or couldn't remember anything. They tested him, he was like off of the charts smart. Fascinating book.

• 24:55Lewis Howes?

  What are the three books you'd recommend to young people who want to learn about life and success and overcoming challenges?

• 25:04Speaker 02

  Well, life is always full of challenges. Every day there's a different challenge and particularly when you're younger and not at this age in my life. And I think the ultimate challenge always has to be a sport. And I'm not trying to avoid your question.

• 25:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  But, you know, these people who write self-help books to me at times, I read them and I laugh. And I'll tell you why I laugh, because they're copying each other. And if people talk about motivational things, okay? You have to find something inside of you that motivates you. You have to have something and someone can sit there and talk to you till you're blue in the face. If you don't look in a mirror and say, I've got a chain, but I've got to face something. Let's say a kid has been raised in the worst of circumstances, okay?

• 25:51Speaker 02

  And he's been given an opportunity by someone who puts his hand on his shoulder and say, "Hey, look, I'm gonna help you get here." I'll guarantee that kid might, if he's really dedicated, he might get there faster than somebody who's grown up in a maybe fantasy background. There's so many really wealthy people here in Los Angeles. Exactly. I kinda feel sorry for their kids. Hmm. I really do, because they never face challenges. They don't have the hunger, the drive, the challenge that we're. Well, they don't have that. They've never had to work for anything in their lives. And I think the one thing in many families like that, you see a lot of affection, a lot of giving, a lot of, you know, the, I guess, the little things in life that everyone

• 26:36Speaker 02

  who doesn't have them would like to have. Hungry people come from everywhere. They come from everywhere. And I see some of the really, really bright people that absolutely love sports, that will leave very great paying jobs and come work for a lot of success because they like the competition. Yeah. This world is about competition. But how do you find your niche in life? And, you know, I, I look at the schools today and I kinda laugh at myself for giving all these degrees in sports management. And I don't know how many graduate, there's not that many people that can get a job. I know. There're not.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  And I almost feel today that you could have any kind of degree, any kind of degree, unless you were really focusing, uh, looking at science, architectural things like that. Medical, or, yeah. Medical things like that. Many people never use your degree. Yeah, I was a sports management major. Well, that's right. I'm not, I'm not working in sports. You know what? There's not that many opportunities. And to get there, you have to kiss a lot of people's feet, okay? Right, right. And sometimes that doesn't work. Sure. But there's an unbelievable level of excitement around sports. There, there really is, truly is. And that, you can feel that competitiveness, particularly day of the game. Hmm. You can really feel it. Yeah.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  And it's the most electric feeling in your life. Somebody, somebody says, "Why do you sit around and do this all the time?"

• 28:12Speaker 02

  That is the most sensitive area for me. That, that, that little feeling. I mean, it's stupid. But I knew in a basketball game, when I could really feel that little special thing, it was gonna be a great night for me individually. And hopefully, that would help drive a team to win. But there are just little things about competition. And parents need, and I think that, because I've been married twice, had five sons. When I'm in a very difficult time for kids to grow up in the drug era. And now today, which is a completely different era. And the pressures that those kids faced then was peer pressure. Today, it's not nearly that.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  It's about the ability, go out and say, hey, look, I need to do something different in my life. And I think one of the things, I know some enormously wealthy people. Their kids do not want to be involved in that business. I think it's a tribute to the parents, to those kids. They'll never have to work a day in their lives.

• 29:15Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  But it's a tribute to them to want to do something. And a lot of them do humanitarian things, which I think is really fantastic. But to try to give someone books that I've read. Read about leaders, Lincoln, Washington, Martin Luther King, Desmond Tutu, Rosa Parks. These people who truly have made a difference in the world.

• 29:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:41Speaker 02

  And those are the people that I get inspiration from, because they didn't have the money. They had to go through some of the most ridiculous things that human beings had to do. Complete insult to their integrity, to their races.

• 29:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  To the masses that they were trying to, to help. That's where I get my inspiration. And last but not least, giving.

• 30:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  I think that's my. You know, I don't know how many years I have to live. That's what I want to do. Find a way to help make people, young kids in particular, kids from West Virginia, who from southern coalfields, which is not much in existence anymore, who are anything other than athletes. So they can go to West Virginia and get an education. That's been the charity of my choice.

• 30:31Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. That's cool. What do you think are some ways that young people can build confidence? If they have no confidence, they're completely insecure, they doubt themselves constantly. What are some things they can do on a daily basis to build that belief?

• 30:46Speaker 02

  That's probably one of the toughest ones. Try to find a way to get around someone or somebody you admire, okay? Try to find personal information about them. But you must have a specific interest. I don't care if it's digging a ditch, okay? A lot of ways to dig a ditch. But to dig a straight one, it takes a lot of hard work and a lot of people care about how it's dug, okay? Some people want to get by the easy way. And I always, to me, there's three different kinds of people in this world. Fighters, floaters, and flers, okay? A friend of mine told me this one time. A fighter is the one you want to be associated with, okay? Put a fler with him, he's going to fail immediately.

• 31:29Speaker 02

  Put a fighter with him, oh, I mean a floater with him, he's going to do great. Because the fighter is going to do all the work, okay? And so he attaches himself to him. Everyone, oh my God, you've done a good job. He might have done nothing except have the ability to communicate with people. But you put a fighter, I mean a floater and a fler together, it's a disaster.

• 31:52Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  And so birds of a feather flock together, okay? Get together with people who are really giving and want to help.

• 32:03Speaker 02

  And if you can't tell when people are sincere, listen, I've had something here recently in my life where, where I've probably had the greatest disappointment in my life, okay? And I have to laugh at it because how petty it is.

• 32:16Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:17Lewis Howes?

  Was it a professional or a personal thing?

• 32:19Speaker 02

  Well, as I say, I'm not gonna get into it, but um.

• 32:22Lewis Howes?

  It was the greatest disappointment of your life?

• 32:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:25Lewis Howes?

  Recently, okay.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  Uh huh. Uh, because dedication you're giving your life to people is really, really important. And, you know, to have someone to, whether it's a friend or something, if something, one says something derogatory, I don't care, just please say it to me, okay? Don't, don't deceive me. You shouldn't deceive people, you should not. And these are the lessons I've learned in my life. I've learned them later in my life where you don't expect them, they come, like somebody punches you in your face and you say, hmm, what's this all about?

• 32:57Lewis Howes?

  You thought you knew it all, yeah.

• 32:58Speaker 02

  Listen, there's some people out there that you don't wanna associate yourself with. There are a lot of them. Get to know the people that really care.

• 33:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:06Speaker 02

  And the people that are honest, and the people that want you to do well in life. And sometimes people choose the wrong one.

• 33:14Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 33:15Speaker 02

  And it will take them years, and they might waste years of their lives and say, oh my God, why didn't I recognize this earlier in my life?

• 33:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, so be around people to really build that belief, build that confidence, that they're real, to help you.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  In my world, there's a lot of people that are not real.

• 33:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  And there's some, you know, people talk about writers and everything, and you have writers who come to give a story on, of a game, you know, and, and it's changed. Now, every night is like the review on a Broadway stage, okay? Every night. In a season, and particularly a basketball season or a baseball season, one of them is a triathlon, and one of them is a marathon.

• 33:59Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  And we're getting ready to start the marathon, okay? And so people are gonna judge teams early in the year, don't judge them early in the year, judge them as the season goes along. And writers who do that, the writers have changed, okay? They've changed a lot. The pundits have changed today. You turn on the TV sometime, you sit there and say to yourself, they've got a guy who played for another team, who's got two years for free agency, and they're already trying to get him traded. I mean, he's gonna go somewhere else. I think that's disgraceful, okay? In my own opinion. But I respect everyone in the news media. I don't care if they say, I've had people say awful things about me, and they'll call me the next day.

• 34:45Speaker 02

  I won't even mention what they said. I will not mention it. It's their prerogative to do that. Because I think life is about balance. And if everyone, every day, told you how great you were, that's not true. Regardless of what you're doing in life, okay? Regardless. But to me, balance in life. And I had someone send me a seal one time with a ball on its nose, okay? A seal? Seal. With this ball on its nose, the balancing thing, okay? And I tried to figure this out. Because I called this person and says, this is what life is, it's about balance. Think of all the great things people said about you, and all the derogatory things people said about me. Rarely was there anything derogatory said about me as a player.

• 35:29Speaker 02

  But as an executive, yes, okay? And I said to myself, he's right. He's absolutely right. Balance is the key to life. And if you think by, you can work yourself to death, and it will be self-defeating. I see people that work so much, you start to say to yourself, this is not productive. This is not productive. Because you're constantly second-guessing yourself. And you need to have some other interest, and particularly in the sporting world, where During the season, you're never gonna get a relief, okay? I watch almost every game on television, believe it or not.

• 36:09Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 36:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, almost every game.

• 36:12Lewis Howes?

  Every game in the NBA?

• 36:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:14Lewis Howes?

  You watch them all?

• 36:15Speaker 02

  I try to watch them all.

• 36:16Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 36:16Speaker 02

  It's hard to do when there's a conglomerate game, but you can start watching them here in Los Angeles at four o'clock in the afternoon.

• 36:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  And change around, quarters, halftime.

• 36:26Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 36:27Speaker 02

  You're taking notes.

• 36:28Lewis Howes?

  You're a student of the game at the highest level.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  Yes, that's probably what you do.

• 36:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 36:33Speaker 02

  And you can't, listen, you cannot deceive the public, or you cannot deceive the people you work with unless you're well-read on the subject or up on the subject that you're involved with. And I don't care, forget sports. Forget sports. It applies to every walk alike.

• 36:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Wow. I'm curious about who the most influential person was for you growing up? And what was the lesson that stood out to you the most that they gave you?

• 37:03Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh.

• 37:07Speaker 02

  Maybe no one.

• 37:08Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 37:09Speaker 02

  Maybe no one.

• 37:10Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 37:11Speaker 02

  No.

• 37:11Lewis Howes?

  You didn't have a parent, or a mentor, or a friend, or a coach, or a teacher?

• 37:17Speaker 02

  No. I think people I met when I went to college, that's when I started to realize that there were some people that really cared about you, okay? How you're doing personally, not the basketball part.

• 37:30Lewis Howes?

  How you're feeling, how's life?

• 37:31Speaker 02

  There was a lady that I spent time with, I lived in her house, and she was a pharmacist, her name was Ann Donardi. And when she passed away, there's Jerry West Ann Donardi Scholarship Fund in West Virginia, one of the few I have there. She was very meaningful for me, but she really cared about how I was doing. And she knew I was an awkward, backward person who did not fit into that surrounding. She knew how fragile I was in the sense that I didn't fit in. And her...

• 38:07Speaker 02

  Some of the nasty names she used to call me, oh my gosh, I used to say to myself. You know, it sounds like a men's locker room. Yeah. Okay. Um, but she was an amazing, uh, person. She cared after me like my mother. Uh, but she was one who I looked, I always looked forward to seeing her every day. Hmm. Cause I lived in, in her house. What was the lesson she taught you? Everything was unequivocal with her, okay? It was, her affection to me was regardless. If we'd lost a basketball game, we never lost a game. My years in West Virginia at home, never lost one game. Wow, at home, yeah. No, uh, uh, not one game.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  And, uh, but, you know, we would, we've had really extraordinary teams, won a lot of games. And, uh, but regardless of whether we won or lost, she was always the same. And some days you, you know, you go in the locker room and you lose a particularly tough game and you got teammates over there looking around at the guy who's supposed to deliver the goods and he doesn't deliver them every night. You could just tell, but she at early age, when I was 18 years old, she actually got me to come back to school. Hmm. And, um, her care, her affection was something truly that was, I didn't know was around. Wow. I did not know was around because I was so nondescript.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  And there was one guy in my life who's still my best friend, someone I would, God forbid, if he'd ever pass away, named Willie Akers. He and I were- Still friends today? He was, yes, we were players on the same team. Wow. And we were tied at the hip. He was very much like me, much more social. And he really kind of, you know, I, I never went on vacation in my life, okay? Never owned a car. And he, I'll never forget when, when we were freshmen, he lived in southern part of the state and I lived near the state capitol in Charleston. And he used to come and pick me up like, like, it was almost like he was my chauffeur, but he was my friend. Hmm.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  And the care and attention, there wasn't a day that went by in college that we didn't do something together, not one day. And, um, he was, has always been very meaningful, uh, to me in my life. But there's a lot of other people, I, I, I tell you one person I greatly admired. He was my Olympic coach, Pete Newell. Greatly admired him, what kind of person he was. And more importantly, for some reason, he took a liking to me. And it was a difficult process to make the Olympic team. All amateurs and they used to have an AAU tournament, it was in Denver.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  And I'll never forget the first night, just an amateur team had never even won a All-Star, college All-Star team, had never won a game, not one game. Because you're playing against all these AAU teams, the Army, I mean, the Navy teams. There was a bunch of teams in because there's no money in it. And they would get some of the best players in America because they had an opportunity to go on and have a position with these respective companies. And the first night we played, I think I played, I think I had like nine points and everyone judges the game today on nine points. And that was a small part of my career. The other thing, defensively, was probably early on the best part of my thing, I mean,

• 41:40Speaker 02

  best part of my game at that point in time. And he, I call, and we won pretty handily. But if that team won, they had to select seven players, that team won. And I think the next night, we beat another very good team fairly handily, and I had like 25 that night, a bunch of rebounds and steals. And, you know, I felt I played better, but I still was concerned that was I going to be selected, that they were going to select five other people on other teams to represent the country for the Olympic game. And so then last night, I think I scored 38 points and had a huge game, and we win the tournament.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  Now, they had to select seven, have to select seven. I didn't know if I was going to get selected. I did not. And I was one of the starters and I played a lot of it. But I was so afraid that I was not going to be, and that was going to be...

• 42:42Speaker 02

  To me, maybe the greatest achievement I could ever have. Because it was very nationalistic in America then, you know, you had the Cold War. Sure. The Berlin Wall, racism at its very worst. Hmm. Everything negative was going on and, you know, just a chance to represent your country, that was important to me. Huge. But I, he called me about one or one thirty in the morning and said, you made it. And I said, Pete, I said, I was, I didn't know if I was gonna make it. He said, are you kidding me? And I said, no, I'm not kidding you. I said, I didn't think I was gonna make it. So it was one of the biggest thrills I'd ever had in my life. And then to have a chance to never, let's say, never been anywhere in my life, to go

• 43:27Speaker 02

  to Europe of all places and to be in Rome. And I love history, okay? So, but we had like a, we wanted to win. And of course, the Russians then had a, you know, that was supposedly the biggest game. But we just trampled the opposition, okay? Trampled the opposition. And he had one of the greatest pep talks, the last game, okay? And they did everything was on the point system. And we played Brazil in the finals, okay? He said in the locker room before the game, he says, if you guys lose this game by seventy-two points, he says, you're not gonna win the gold medal. And you know, you're sitting there thinking, can he beat us seventy-two points? Well, I think we beat them sixty-eight points. Wow.

• 44:12Speaker 02

  But the thrilling part of it was when Oscar Robinson, who I greatly admire, love him like a brother, I had enormous respect. Our careers really paralleled each other. He and I received the gold medal for the whole squad. Hmm. And when they played the national anthem, I sat there, I wish that every person...

• 44:35Speaker 02

  Couldn't know what my body felt like. And I hope somewhere along the way that there's something that will give you that feeling regardless of who it is. But I sit there and all I could think about was my brother. He never saw me play. I think he'd be pretty proud of this moment.

• 44:53Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful. There's something about, you know, I told you I played with the USA national team for handball. And I've been to Spain and played there and Israel and the UK and Puerto Rico and South America, Canada and played. And every time I'm in a tournament with the USA team, we play the national anthem before the game. Each team plays. And it's always the greatest feeling to wear USA across the chest and hear the anthem. And I feel like I almost know what that feeling is you had. I wasn't, I've never won the medal in the Olympics, but I still get that feeling of, man, all the years of dedication and commitment and hard work and injury and sacrifice to be here, to experience it, just that moment is very powerful, so.

• 45:36Speaker 02

  It is powerful, but again, I would say probably the only difference that you would feel because everything that was going on in the world, it was scary. It was really scary.

• 45:44Lewis Howes?

  I can imagine.

• 45:45Speaker 02

  And as I say, I so wanted my brother. He would have been so proud of me. He and I, I was closer to him than anyone in my family.

• 45:53Lewis Howes?

  How old were you when you passed, when he passed?

• 45:55Speaker 02

  He was 13, I was 13.

• 45:56Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 45:57Speaker 02

  He was 20. And.

• 46:00Lewis Howes?

  Do you remember the last thing you said with him or talked to him about?

• 46:03Speaker 02

  I couldn't repeat it unless telecast.

• 46:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 46:06Speaker 02

  I was really little and he was getting ready to go into the service and his, he was playing some basketball with his friends. And they were, they were playing and he wouldn't let me play.

• 46:21Lewis Howes?

  He said some mean things.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  And I said something to him that profanity. He threw the basketball and hit me in the stomach. And I'll never forget this today. It kind of knocked the wind out of me. And I said to him, I said, you know, one of these days I'm going to be the greatest player to ever play.

• 46:39Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  Not knowing that I would even become a good player.

• 46:42Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  I was little.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  I'll never forget that day.

• 46:47Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that was the last.

• 46:48Speaker 02

  A fall day, it was a fall day. I'll never forget it. But he couldn't have caught me anyway, I was the fastest person around.

• 46:54Lewis Howes?

  I remember.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  No one would catch.

• 46:56Lewis Howes?

  What would you imagine?

• 46:58Speaker 02

  By the way, he was deeply religious.

• 47:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  And that's why the profanity was so.

• 47:03Lewis Howes?

  Sure, a bad thing for him, yeah.

• 47:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 47:05Lewis Howes?

  What would you have said to him if he was able to watch you in that gold medal ceremony and watch the final game and watching Olympics? What would you have said to him if you had the opportunity to talk to him then?

• 47:16Speaker 02

  I would probably said to him, um, thank you for really caring about me growing up in a very difficult house. I have a lot of old letters from him to this day, and they were written during the Korean War. And in reading these letters, and they had to be brief because of all the stuff that was going on, I read those letters and I can just see his face. I can see his face.

• 47:42Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 47:43Speaker 02

  And I read him probably a couple of times a year, right beside my bed in a little box there.

• 47:51Lewis Howes?

  Wow. What does his face remind you of? What qualities?

• 47:56Speaker 02

  Very handsome guy. As I say, very religious, extraordinarily religious. He would just do anything, he was so kind, would do anything for people.

• 48:07Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. It's nice to have a big brother like that.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  It is, but as I say, I learned my lessons from him. I tried to emulate him, except for being religious. I can't be religious because I used to say to myself all the time, I said, my God, how could he get killed above all the people? Someone like him?

• 48:27Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:28Speaker 02

  You would think he'd be bulletproof, but that's not the way this worked.

• 48:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. How's your relationship with religion or God been since that happened?

• 48:37Speaker 02

  Very spiritual, but I haven't really, except to go in church maybe for...

• 48:43Lewis Howes?

  Christmas or something?

• 48:44Speaker 02

  For, you know, some sad things.

• 48:46Lewis Howes?

  Oh, okay.

• 48:48Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't go to church anymore. I'm not, to say I'm really, really spiritual.

• 48:54Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:54Speaker 02

  I do believe in karma.

• 48:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 48:57Speaker 02

  And, um, I think some of the things I've done in my life, I'm not proud of. Um, he wouldn't have been proud of them, but, um, to say I learned a lot from him growing up.

• 49:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  In a short period of time that I was around him.

• 49:11Lewis Howes?

  Do you have any big regrets?

• 49:13Speaker 02

  I have a lot of regrets in life, a lot of regrets. I think when I was playing for the Lakers, probably the biggest regret that I played for an owner who deceived me twice in contract talks, we didn't have agents, and told me a lie. I wish I could have been a free agent. I wouldn't have ended my career here.

• 49:34Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 49:35Speaker 02

  No way. I don't want you to lie to me. Please tell me the truth.

• 49:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, let you make a better decision based on the fact.

• 49:42Speaker 02

  Just tell me the truth, whatever it is. I don't care if it hurts, tell me the truth. There's a yes and a no. But there's always, there's something about being involved with people who are less than honest. It doesn't seem fair when, if you're a team player, it doesn't seem fair. And some people are, some people just can't help themselves. They can't help themselves.

• 50:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What was the greatest lesson your dad taught you? Whether he directly taught you, or his lack of teaching, or lack of doing something? What was that thing that he said?

• 50:20Speaker 02

  From my dad?

• 50:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Whether I'm not gonna be this way, this is something, you know, I learned that was positive, or that was negative, that I'm gonna do differently, what was that?

• 50:29Speaker 02

  I only learned negative, okay? I only learned negative. And some days, sometimes in your life, you, I wish I'd had a relationship with him that wasn't to be. It bothers my, my surviving two sisters bothers them that I talk about. They don't, they don't think I should. To me, it's been cleansing to do, to do it.

• 50:55Lewis Howes?

  Healing, huh?

• 50:55Speaker 02

  And you would, you would be surprised how many people who come from certain circumstances, where there's not, where they've seen similar things, it scars you. There's no question it scars you. But it does make you tougher. It does make you tougher. And people always talk toughness about physicality. No, it's not what it is.

• 51:17Lewis Howes?

  Emotional, mental toughness?

• 51:18Speaker 02

  Yes, absolutely. And as I say, I've seen a lot in my life. I have learned more by watching people who are less than honest, who are deceptive.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  I don't dislike them, but that's who they are. I don't dislike them. There's people I would rather... I don't hate anyone. I don't hate anyone. I have great respect for people that sometimes I don't appreciate. Great respect for what they've done in life. But I do like people that are candid. Whether it's positive or negative toward me, I like people. I don't like someone to beat around the bush.

• 51:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:58Speaker 02

  Be positive. Just tell me the truth.

• 52:00Lewis Howes?

  Sure. How do you think someone can build mental toughness? Without having to go through some type of external...

• 52:07Speaker 02

  How they build it? It's pretty simple. Be honest with yourself. Be honest with other people. Many people, and I've seen it everywhere. They want you to tell them what they want to hear. Okay? If they ask you a leading question, say, not to be offensive, this is what I see. This is what I see. You want my opinion? If you're gonna get mad, it's your own fault.

• 52:31Lewis Howes?

  Don't ask my question.

• 52:32Speaker 02

  Don't ask me the question.

• 52:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:34Speaker 02

  But I do think you should be honest.

• 52:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:36Speaker 02

  And I think today, I think today it's... This world has so changed. You know, the social media.

• 52:46Speaker 02

  You know.

• 52:48Speaker 02

  Everyone knowing everything about you. There's something about having privacy that's important, okay? It's harder for everyone to have it.

• 52:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:59Speaker 02

  You know, I see people who get so enamored with people in all walks of life that have had some success. And I'm not necessarily sure I do that. I don't.

• 53:10Lewis Howes?

  You're not enamored with people?

• 53:11Speaker 02

  No, no. I'm enamored with what kind of person they are. Are they nice?

• 53:15Lewis Howes?

  The quality of their character.

• 53:16Speaker 02

  Yes. Well, it's what they present to you. Some of the people that I'm friendly with.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  I call them.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  I call them my.

• 53:31Speaker 02

  My misfit friends. Yeah. Because I fit in with them. Do we see each other every day? No, no, we don't. But we have, there's something about them being so different and me being so different that I find enjoyable to be around. As I say, I root for people, I really root for people, for people who have passion to accomplish something in life. But if you can't.

• 53:57Speaker 02

  Somewhere along the way, you have to say to yourself, you know, I really want to do this, but I can't do it. I'm not cut out to do this. I'm not going to get an opportunity. So you have to be, and again, in today's world, you really, really have to be flexible enough and also articulate enough and wide read enough to be able to move from one field to the next. And I get letters from kids, calls from kids, kids who come up, I want to get involved in basketball. I said, first of all, you know how many kids that talk to me about that? A lot. So there's a lot of competition, number one. But it's just really about networking. Make yourself a pest to someone. A pest?

• 54:41Speaker 02

  I'll never forget, I'll never forget a guy who may be the best, if not the best, he's one of the best PR directors in the league. His name is Raymond Ritter. He worked for the San Francisco Warriors. Raymond.

• 54:56Speaker 02

  Was trying like crazy to get involved in the PR business, okay? And he even sent.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  A bouquet of flowers.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  And I'm laughing myself and I said, oh my goodness. But anyway. To you. Well, no, it's, well, basically to John Black, who was a PR director then to Lakers. Unfortunately, he's not there today. He, remember when they had that huge Northridge earthquake? He was there like 2:30 in the morning. Working, okay? And that big earthquake happened. He crawled under the desk, okay? And I said, Raymond? I used to kid him all the time about it. And now he is one of the most respected PR guys in the world because he is so dedicated and so loyal

• 55:51Speaker 02

  and so hardworking, but above all, he is not changed. He's the same person, great person, great person.

• 55:58Lewis Howes?

  So be a pest, be a pest.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  Be a pest, that's right. If you're a little kid, be a pest.

• 56:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  Right, they'll get tired of you. And they'll have, pretty soon, they'll keep communicating with you in some way. If there any kind of person they will.

• 56:10Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 56:11Lewis Howes?

  Do you have any big fears or insecurities at this stage of your life? You've, you've been through a lot, you've achieved, you've seen so much?

• 56:19Speaker 02

  No, I say this, you know, golden years, I don't think I'll ever have any golden years in my life because that's not who I am. I guess regardless of what future holds for me, I would, I still have one thing I'd like to do. I'd really like to help a lot more people.

• 56:36Lewis Howes?

  In what ways?

• 56:37Speaker 02

  Well, because I think back in time and, and I mentioned one lady earlier to you, Anne Donahue. There's always some kind of an angel out there. If you can affix yourself to them, and particularly if you're young and struggling and you have no self-confidence, that is willing to put a hand around you and give you a hug when it might be foreign to you. And she was that one person who made me feel really special. I felt unbelievably special around her. And it probably, number one, it kept me in school, I know. And find a friend for life. Is it gonna accept you for who you are?

• 57:22Speaker 02

  Not gonna try to change your idiosyncrasies, and we all have them. And I have more than most. And get people to accept who you are. Your frailties, your, your bad habits. But always, I wanna thank their goodness to everyone. I do. And some people need to look in the mirror when they get up every morning. I do this every morning. I used to do this all the time, not as much anymore. I used to get up, look in the mirror and say, what am I looking at? What am I looking at? And this was when everyone was, when you're having successes, I'm always doubting myself, uh, but I've never doubted my work ethic and my loyalty to the people I'm working with.

• 58:07Speaker 02

  Again, I'm gonna use that word loyalty because there are a lot of people in this world that are not loyal. And they know who I'm talking about.

• 58:15Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. What did you see in the mirror when you would see yourself?

• 58:19Speaker 02

  That was the hard part. That was a hard part. Because, and then days you get up, you say to yourself, what am I gonna do today? It might be in the heat of uh, trying to make a trade or something, you know, uh, God, this feels awful to trade a player, but this could be a uh, a franchise changing, changing event. And we had two or three of those here who were in Los Angeles. And working with Jerry Buss was just fantastic. Just fantastic. He encouraged me, saw something in me that very few people would ever think you could go from the athlete to being an executive. And there's a lot of great things that happened here, a lot of great things. And everyone wants to give me the credit? No, it,

• 59:04Speaker 02

  it belongs to, it belonged to a collective group today, then rather, a very small group. And Jerry pretty much trusted me and allowed me to make decisions, always with his consultation.

• 59:19Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:20Speaker 02

  I think those days have changed, by the way.

• 59:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I've heard you say the word dreams a lot. You've, you were a big dreamer, you thought differently, you thought differently about yourself, where you wanted to go. I felt that a lot as a kid. I came from a small town in Delaware, Ohio. Probably about 20,000 people when I was growing up where, you know, my parents didn't even lock the doors in the home at night. We, probably similar feeling. I don't know if you guys locked the doors at your home.

• 59:44Speaker 02

  No, heck no. Well, there's nothing to take anyway.

• 59:47Lewis Howes?

  Right, exactly. I always remember feeling like there was something more for me. There was something more than this small town and this insecurity that I was feeling. And I had big dreams, but for those that don't know how to dream bigger, or how to dream in a different way, what advice would you give to them if they don't know what their dream is? How can they start thinking differently, bigger, in a unique way? What's a problem?

• 1:00:12Speaker 02

  You know, not so much this point in time in my life, but as I say, I'm not a great sleeper. I have a pencil and a piece of paper beside my bed. You'd be surprised at some of the things I write down.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  And they're just a constant reminder, you know, how I can make myself better, even at this point in my life. But more importantly, how can I help someone else? How can I help someone achieve their dream? It's a lot easier when you're making, when you have the ability to make decisions instead of being an advisor like I am today. It's a lot easier to do it then. And please, don't take yourself so seriously. My God, this world is, this world is filled with that today. And you know something, you need people because of what you're doing in your life. You need people kind of like yourself, people to encourage you, to get you to continue to follow what you're doing. How can you get better?

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  What do you learn from every interview you do? Every person that you talk to has a different story to tell. A different background they come from. They could be minorities, they could be immigrants from, you know, immigrants are minorities. They have a different story to tell, but I'll guarantee you that if you could get them to talk about the most intimate details, their dreams to get to America and once they got here. And they were, they followed their dreams and they achieved a lot. And they're a cornerstone to, to this incredible country living. But some people are reluctant to talk about it.

• 1:01:55Speaker 02

  Some people like to talk about themselves way too much. Talk about people you admire, talk about people you care about. You know, how can I make a little bit of difference in someone's life, okay? There's two, three people I work with that I learned more when I was working for the Lakers, working with three ladies, okay? I always used to hear about how dumb I was and how, I can't believe you do this, I can't believe you do that. I loved those women.

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  Why did you love that? Well, it was because I realized that in a male dominated world, which sports were, and these people were working for the Lakers, I learned more from them than from just thinking that, you know, there's more to, to life and just trying to organize a basketball team. There's another side to life. And honestly, I would prefer working with women sometimes more than men. Because I think there's, there's something about them, they see things that men don't, because men are so competitive. And when you're competitive, it's like two bulls ramming heads sometime.

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  And not for domination, not for domination, but varying opinions. But these women were all completely different. I used to do things for them that, and particularly to them in particular, that it was, I'd get letters from them, you know, I'd send them vacations and anywhere they wanted to go. That's how much I valued them. I would never let them spend a penny. Because I appreciated what they contributed, their growth in me. Going from being a player where you're really concentrating on yourself every day in terms of preparing yourself for a game.

• 1:03:50Speaker 02

  And then getting to a game and you're associated with all these people are trying to focus on winning. I learned more from them than probably anyone I've ever worked with. Hmm, that's cool. It's, you know, today I'm working with maybe the most unique owner I've ever been around, Steve Ballmer. He's an amazing man, he really is. His enthusiasm for winning, but his philanthropic ways are incredible. Never seeks attention to himself. He's gonna be an owner that whoever gets an opportunity to work for him going forward is gonna be thrilled with him. He's just that special. He recently gave a hundred million dollars to the city of Inglewood. Wow.

• 1:04:35Speaker 02

  Obviously, he's trying, we're trying to get a build, arena built over there. But in other things, in the city, eyeglasses for children, all the backpacks, all the different things, refurbishing recreation centers. He's just so civic minded and he doesn't live here. Wow. Where's he live? He lives in, he lives in Seattle and his, he's lived there for years. But he and his wife are two of the most philanthropic people. You would never know if you're around him, the enormous financial success he's had in his life. He is. Down to earth, generous guy. He's a pleasure to be around. That's great.

• 1:05:15Speaker 02

  It kind of reminds me of Jerry Buss a little bit, a little bit. He's a man of the people. And Jerry didn't have his wealth, but Jerry was the same kind of person. And. You know, he will never lose his way in life. He will never.

• 1:05:33Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  Remarkable man.

• 1:05:35Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. Well, hopefully I'll come to the game this year. Couple of final questions for you. This has been powerful, so thank you for opening up. This question is called the three truths. I ask this at the end of every interview. So I'd like you to imagine that it's your last day on earth many, many years from now. And you get to pick the day. It can be 100 years, 200 years, or as long as you want to be around, but eventually it's the last day. And you continue to achieve all the dreams that you have. You've achieved so much already, but you go on and achieve even greater things. But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your accomplishments with you in all of your work with you. All of your books and interviews that have been out there, it's all going to go with you.

• 1:06:17Lewis Howes?

  So no one has access to these conversations or your materials anymore. But you get to leave behind three lessons to the world. Three things you know to be true from all of your experiences as a kid growing up in West Virginia to college, to Lakers, to coaching, to working in the front office, to everything that you're going to do. And you get to share three lessons with all of us.

• 1:06:42Speaker 02

  Well, I think if I could see, obviously, it would be probably to people that are younger, not older.

• 1:06:48Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:06:48Speaker 02

  It would all, this would always be, number one, be a dreamer. Okay? Hard work is a skill. Hard work is a skill.

• 1:07:01Speaker 02

  Find something you like to do and you'll never work a day in your life.

• 1:07:05Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Those are great. I love those. I want to acknowledge you, Jerry, for a moment, for your continual dreamer's mindset, for your continual learning mindset, the fact that you're always reading, learning, wanting to learn from people, from books, from anything you can get your hands on. And you want to contribute in a big way. I love your heart about wanting to always give back and help younger people and be a giver. So I want to acknowledge you for everything you've created in your highlights of your career, but also how you want to be in service so much. I think that's the greatest talent you have now is probably bigger than the awards and the medals, is that you want to be in service. So I really acknowledge you for that mindset.

• 1:07:49Speaker 02

  You know, I appreciate that, but honestly, I really don't even think about my career. I don't. You know, people had some pretty...

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  Incredible things happened to me as an athlete and personal things. A lot of personal disappointments, not being able to win more championships. I don't really think about those things anymore. That's not who I am at all. I don't even, I don't even really dwell on it. I think if you forget, if you forget the, if you forget that part of your life and concentrate on how to make this a better world, how to concentrate on making, um, make it better for people. Find out that there's no difference in any of us, regardless of what race we are. We're all the same. We all want the same.

• 1:08:42Speaker 02

  We don't all look the same. But there's a unique opportunity to learn about people if you cared about people. If you don't isolate people from maybe your walk of life. This is a fascinating, wonderful world because of the diversity of it. And some people are afraid of diversity. I'm not.

• 1:09:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's good. Is there anywhere we can follow you online or anything we can support of yours?

• 1:09:12Speaker 02

  No, I don't have any social media. No, no, I don't believe in it. Who would want to hear from someone like me? That's all I'm like that.

• 1:09:22Lewis Howes?

  I do. My audience does. So can we, is there a website or is there?

• 1:09:25Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:09:26Lewis Howes?

  You've got a book that people could buy?

• 1:09:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it's, it's written, it was one of the best, it's really, uh, it's called West by West, My Charm Tore Me Into Life. It's really a story about my life, not so much about the basketball part of it, but the things I saw in my life and how it dictated what I became and my frailties in life, the things that have. Have been sometimes bitter when I was a kid that I had to face. It was a hard book to write.

• 1:09:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:58Speaker 02

  And probably very unfair to my father, he didn't have that chance to answer the

• 1:10:01Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 1:10:02Speaker 02

  Answer the question, probably he passed away.

• 1:10:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:04Speaker 02

  But again, I think by writing that it was cleansing in some respect. But I will tell you how many letters I've got from people who have shared the same experience. And felt this loss of self-esteem. And how they seem to find a niche for themselves in this way. Because they were dreamers. They could picture themselves in some kind of other environment. That was important to them. I think everyone in this country idolizes success. A measure of a person is not by how much money they have. Not at all.

• 1:10:47Speaker 02

  And I find that, that, let's say, I met a lot of people in my life, probably a lot of people that other people want to meet. Some of them are fantastically successful. Some have been incredible leaders of this country. And I really find that almost all of them have one unique thing. They do care.

• 1:11:13Lewis Howes?

  They care.

• 1:11:14Speaker 02

  They do care. The really good ones, they do care.

• 1:11:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  And they do good.

• 1:11:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's powerful. My final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:11:25Speaker 02

  My definition of greatness is someone who has consistently produced at every level. But has not forgotten along the way who they are. Greatness can be defined by an all world, okay? I admire.

• 1:11:44Speaker 02

  People who can write because it's everlasting. Music, the people who write is everlasting. If you could do something in this world that is written, that will stand the test of time. And trust me, athletes, regardless of what era they're from, they will be remembered for their greatness. But a hundred years from now, those written words will never be forgotten. Like a great painting, those will never be forgotten. Great deeds will never be forgotten.

• 1:12:29Speaker 02

  You know, you go see in Washington DC, some of the incredible things that they have over there in these museums. There's a new museum, it's about black history that is pretty chilling. And to see that, and I grew up, I was raised, I grew up in 1938, to see how people were enslaved. It's embarrassing for me to see how something like that can happen. And it's encapsulated there in Washington DC. At one time, I don't think a black athlete could have ever gotten an endorsement.

• 1:13:15Speaker 02

  Is there a white athlete today is relevant. I don't think so. And that to me, that to me says a lot about this country. Athletes have made a huge difference in the racial injustice. And to see them, the most popular people in all of sports today, and how powerful they've become, makes me feel really good. That's powerful. I appreciate you coming on. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks, man. Appreciate it.

• 1:13:50Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed this interview and special episode with the icon Jerry West. If you did, let me know. Subscribe to our podcast over on Apple Podcasts and leave a review. I'd love to hear from you of the most insightful and interesting thing you learned from this episode. You can be a champion and a hero in someone's life today just by sending them a text and telling them, "Hey, I was thinking about you. I hope you're doing well. Here's a link to a podcast. I'd love for you to listen to it." Send them this link. You can just copy and paste it on the Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere that you're listening to podcasts. Or you can send them to lewishouse.com/874. Be a hero, be a champion today. Just send it to one friend, one buddy, one family member

• 1:14:34Lewis Howes?

  that you think would be inspired by this episode and start a conversation with them. We miss out on so many ways to communicate and connect with people that are closest to us, but this is a way you can both connect and learn together. You've got something special inside you. You've got a gift inside of you. And I'm so glad that you decide to come here each and every week to learn the tools, to learn the inspiration, to learn the wisdom from the great minds who've been here before, who've overcome adversity, who've done incredible things in their life, so you can take it out in your world. You can apply it to your relationships, to your finances, to your health, to your mind, and achieve your dreams. Thomas Jefferson said, "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goals.

• 1:15:18Lewis Howes?

  Nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude." The way you perceive yourself and the attitude you have towards everything in your life determines the joy, the fulfillment, and the happiness that you actually have. I hope you have a mental attitude that is a positive one, the right attitude, even when things go bad and when things go wrong. Your response to it and your ability to change your attitude and shift your attitude around this situation is what will support you in achieving your dreams and helping you have a happier, healthier life. I love you so very much and I hope you know that. And

• 1:15:58Lewis Howes?

  as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.